#568 - Preacher's Daughter & The Soul Stealer - Middlebury, Indiana

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder
Episode #568 - "Preacher's Daughter & The Soul Stealer - Middlebury, Indiana"
Release Date: February 8, 2025

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman delve into the unsettling case of Barbara Keim and her daughter Hannah in the quiet town of Middlebury, Indiana. Through meticulous research and dramatic storytelling, they unravel the tragic events leading up to Barbara's disappearance and subsequent murder, exploring the dark motivations and complex relationships that culminated in this heinous crime.

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1. Setting the Scene: Middlebury, Indiana

Middlebury is depicted as a quintessential small town in Elkhart County, Indiana, with a population of approximately 3,446. Established in 1832 by settlers from Middlebury, Vermont, the town maintains a traditional motto: "Grown from Tradition." Despite its serene appearance and higher-than-average median household income of $78,813, Middlebury harbors underlying tensions that set the stage for the tragic events to unfold.

[07:14] James: "Middlebury is a quintessential Norman Rockwell community... safe, friendly, and caring."

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2. The Keim Family: Barbara, Hannah, and Timothy

Barbara Jo Keim (née Neff) is introduced as a 41-year-old dedicated maternity nurse at Elkhart General Hospital. Originating from a large family with one brother and four sisters, Barbara's nurturing nature leads her to a career in nursing. Her personal life, however, is fraught with challenges:

• Marriages and Children:
  • 1986: Marries Alex Stone, a Methodist preacher, and has daughter Hannah in 1988.
  • 1991: Divorces Alex Stone.
  • 1996: Marries Robert Keim, a deputy sheriff, and has son Timothy in 2000.

[16:01] Jimmie: "I just hate taking care of them."

Barbara's second marriage to Robert Keim is strained, especially with their daughter Hannah, who resents her stepfather's strictness.

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3. Hannah's Rebellion and Association with Spencer

As Hannah approaches high school, she begins to rebel against her mother's strict upbringing. Transferring to Middlebury High School, she associates with an emo-gothic group, distancing herself from her mother's religious and nurturing persona. It is during this tumultuous period that Hannah meets Spencer Krempitz, an 18-year-old with a troubled past:

• Spencer's Background:
  • Experiences early childhood trauma, including molestation at age five.
  • Struggles academically and socially, leading to substance abuse by age 11.
  • Develops an obsession with death and violence, modeled after infamous criminals like Damien Echols.

[27:16] Jimmie: "He was molested when he was five by an older kid."

Hannah and Spencer's relationship becomes a focal point of tension, especially after their recent breakup and Barbara's ultimatum for Hannah to sever ties with Spencer.

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4. The Crime Unfolds: Planning and Execution

On August 3, 2005, after a heated argument between Barbara and Hannah about Spencer, both Barbara and Hannah go missing:

• August 4, 2005:

  • Barbara plans to go house hunting and attend a family gathering but never shows up.
  • Neighbors report unusual activities, including strangers removing items from Barbara's apartment and loading her red vehicle.

• Investigation:

  • Police initiate a missing persons report after failing to locate Barbara and Hannah.
  • Aaron McDonald, a 17-year-old friend of Hannah and Spencer, becomes a key suspect when he's observed assisting Spencer with vehicle repairs using Barbara's funds.

[38:57] James: "Why would you..."

As the investigation progresses, inconsistencies like unauthorized ATM withdrawals and suspicious activity around Barbara's apartment heighten suspicions.

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5. Discovery and Confession

Police receive crucial information from Aaron McDonald, who, overwhelmed by guilt, leads authorities to Barbara's body found in a cornfield. The investigation reveals:

• Murder Details:
  • Barbara was abducted, bound, and fatally shot in the back of her head.
  • Spencer and Aaron act as perpetrators under Hannah's influence, attempting to rob and kill Barbara.

[46:04] James: "They weeded anyone that is not good enough."

The trio's motives are rooted in personal animosities and drug-fueled desperation, leading them to commit the unspeakable act.

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6. The Trial and Sentencing

The legal repercussions for Spencer, Hannah, and Aaron are swift and severe:

• Spencer Krempitz:
  • Convicted and sentenced to life without parole plus additional years for conspiracy and criminal confinement.
  • Attempts to appeal on grounds of mental state and procedural errors are dismissed.

[66:55] James: "He said, 'You sound like a dickhead.'"

• Hannah Stone:

  • At 17, she receives a sentence of 100 years, making her eligible for parole at 65.
  • Her defense highlights coercion and mental manipulation, though the court remains unsympathetic.

• Aaron McDonald:

  • Receives a 62-year sentence for his role in the conspiracy.
  • His early confession aids in his sentencing but does little to mitigate his culpability.

[73:11] James: "That's it right there."

The community reels from the tragedy, grappling with grief and disbelief over the violent actions of its youth.

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7. Aftermath and Reflections

The episode concludes with the lasting impacts of the crime:

• Deaths in Prison:

  • Spencer Krempitz commits suicide in 2015 at age 28.
  • Aaron McDonald dies in prison in 2020 under unclear circumstances.

• Hannah Stone:

  • Remains incarcerated, reflecting on her actions and expressing a desire to change.
  • Her rare interviews reveal deep remorse and a longing to undo the past.

[79:30] Jimmie: "I was influenced by two bad men."

• Barbara Keim:
  • Buried in Prairie Street Cemetery, Elkhart.
  • Remembered by the community as a loving mother and dedicated nurse, her loss leaves a void.

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Conclusion

Small Town Murder episode #568 offers a haunting exploration of how personal vendettas, substance abuse, and societal pressures can intertwine to produce tragedy in even the most serene of settings. Through detailed narration and poignant quotes, James and Jimmie shed light on the complexities of human behavior and the devastating consequences of unchecked anger and manipulation.

Notable Quotes:

• James Pietragallo [07:14]: "Middlebury is a quintessential Norman Rockwell community... safe, friendly, and caring."
• Jimmie Whisman [16:01]: "I just hate taking care of them."
• James Pietragallo [27:16]: "He was molested when he was five by an older kid."
• James Pietragallo [46:04]: "They weeded anyone that is not good enough."
• James Pietragallo [66:55]: "He said, 'You sound like a dickhead.'"
• James Pietragallo [73:11]: "That's it right there."
• Jimmie Whisman [79:30]: "I was influenced by two bad men."

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a sobering reminder of the latent darkness that can exist beneath the surface of small-town life. By examining the intricate web of relationships and motivations, Small Town Murder not only narrates a crime but also invites listeners to reflect on the broader societal issues that contribute to such tragedies.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Shutterfly. If you're like us, you take a lot of pictures because you have a camera right in your hand all the time. How would you not take a lot of pictures? And we're taking all these pictures, more than we've ever taken in the history of the world.

[B]

But it's.

[A]

That's the thing. You used to get a solid picture, and then you'd look through them and you could enjoy them. Now they're like back on your camera roll. You can't even find them. You don't want that. That's why the cool thing you need to do and what I did, and I think it's pretty cool, is create a shutter photo book. Oh, what I did. And you're gonna enjoy this, Jimmy, because I haven't showed this to you yet, but took all of our pictures from being on tour this year. All live show pictures, us backstage, us on doing all that stuff and like some of the. Just the venues and things, and made a little photo book out of that. Also, they have free 24 hour designer service as well. With their 24 hour designer service, a professional designer is gonna lay out the book for you for free in just a day. Make something that means something with Shutterfly. Enjoy. 40% off orders over $29 with promo code. Small town C site for promotional details.

[B]

And now back to the shop.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Now back to the show.

[A]

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[B]

Choo choo.

[A]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[B]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[A]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely wild edition of Small Town Murder Express. As you people know, this is ten pounds of murder in a two pound bag and we have a lot to jam in today. It's a crazy story with a real weird kind of like a weird like almost one of the characters is like a West Memphis three character almost. We'll talk all about it, but before we get to that, definitely head over to shut upandgivemerder.com tickets for live shows. If you're listening to this early, then get your butt to Pittsburgh February 7th. That is our first show of the live tour. Next night in Columbus is all sold out. So Pittsburgh is the spot to go get your tickets for the rest of the year too because they're selling out fast. Chicago, St. Louis, Portland is sold out in November. So I mean it's crazy. Seattle, Philly, D.C. at the end of the year, they're selling fast. If you want to go to these shows, get your tickets right now, make some plans and do that. Shut up and give me murder.com also. If you've listened to our show and then you've listened to all small town murder, you listen to crime and sports, you listen to your stupid opinions as you should be doing, then there's still some more that you haven't heard. And that is patreon my goodness. Patreon.com crimeinsports is where you get all of the bonus material. And we are talking immediately upon subscription. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get hundreds of episodes that you have never heard before immediately when you subscribe. And then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder. And how much of that do they get?

[B]

All of it, damn it.

[A]

Every damn drop of it. This week is no exception. This week, first crime and sports. We're getting into something dirty here. We're going to talk about the Kobe Bryant rape fiasco from 2003. And then for small town murder, it is Internet salad time again where we're going to give you a peek behind the curtain, what we do before a show starts, which is basically look on the Internet, see what's going on and make fun of it, because that's what we do. So we're going to go through and just all the stuff of the day that's happening. Take your mind off of anything heavy. No politics whatsoever. None of that shit. Just stuff that doesn't matter. We'll joke all about it. That is patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show for sure. Jimmy will mess your name all up while he wants to get it correct. That said, I think it's time, everybody. We gotta dive right in here. It's time to sit back. What do you say, everybody? Deep breaths, arms to the sky. Let's all shout shut. Shut up. Forgive me, murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay, let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do it. We're going to Indiana.

[B]

That's a place.

[A]

It's certainly a state and a place people go. Oh, the. Yeah, Indiana does exist. There is stuff there. Yeah. Middlebury, Indiana.

[B]

Oh, Middlebury.

[A]

The Middlebury, which I've never heard of before. It's in northern Indiana. It's about an hour and 20 minutes away from Fort Wayne if you want to go there for some reason. By the way, I had somebody tag me and was like, when are you guys coming to Fort Wayne? And I was like, probably not ever. I'll be honest with you. Drive to Chicago. I don't know what to tell you.

[B]

I've never been sitting around being like, you know, all the travel I've done.

[A]

In my life, I really want to check out Fort Wayne.

[B]

I'm ready to get back to Fort Wayne.

[A]

One place I've never been that I'm just, just bucket list. Fort Wayne. This is about two hours to Marion, Indiana, which is our last Indiana episode, which was Beauty and the Beast. And that was a wild one, of course. Indiana, really? You guys bring it hard with weird murders. I'll say it. This week is no exception. This is in Elkhart county, and the population here, 3,446. So this is a small town. Under 5,000 is a real small town. Median household income here, $78,813, which is above the national average. And the median home price here, which you wouldn't imagine if I said middle of nowhere, hour and a half from Fort Wayne in Indiana. You'd be like, oh, the houses are free, basically. Right. They're probably, you know, 60 grand. $313,100 is the median home price here.

[B]

The audacity.

[A]

I don't know what the draw is, but whatever. The motto here is grown from tradition. I don't know what they're growing. Tomatoes, corn. I don't know what, but something. 1832, a little bit of the history here. 1832 was when the first settlers came here. And they were from Middlebury. Vermont.

[B]

Came a long way.

[A]

Yep. And they chose this area because the rolling hills reminded them of Vermont.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So why not just stay in? If only we could just go to a place that's just like where we lived. Why don't you just stay in Vermont? Just go to Vermont. Go to Middlebury.

[B]

We're traveling for three months. You guys, do we go in a circle? I don't know. Let's.

[A]

Let's go to an identical place and name it the same thing. That'll be fine. Right?

[B]

Stupid.

[A]

Really weird here. The first children born in Middlebury were in 1835. So for three years, nobody was. It was a chastened existence here in Middlebury.

[B]

I guess we could fuck.

[A]

Yeah, I guess so. It's probably all guys at first. You know, that's. Usually the settlers come in. It's dudes at first here. Some of the first people here. There was a guy who came, a carpenter named Squire Lee, who came in 1839, and he lived to be 100 years old, allegedly. Who knows if that's true or not. I don't know how great the birth records were in the 1730s or whatever. So we have no idea here. So there's. They eventually got a railroad, which was helpful. And then they started to become like a manufacturing center as well. They had a bunch of different manufacturing centers came in here. By 1839, there was only 12 families living here. So that's it never really grew that much. But then in 1841, the first Amish families came to the cow from Pennsylvania and settled around town. This is known as, like, an Amish area. Oh, this is. It's. Watch out. It's super Amish around here is what people say. You never know. It was incorporated as a town in 1868. So reviews of this town, because we've never been there. We don't know. Here's one. Five stars. Middlebury is the quintessential Norman Rockwell community, which. That says a lot. Yeah, Middle America.

[B]

Yeah, all right.

[A]

Yeah, 19, you know, 40s. Whatever. It's safe, friendly and caring. The children play happily outside on warm days. Families ride and stroll along the pumpkin vine bike trail. And being only an hour to an hour and a half from Chicago, you can easily do day trips to a major city on a whim without living with all the crime and filth.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Indianapolis.

[A]

So apparently Chicago's only an hour. So it's commutable to Chicago if you want to take a drive. So that's something. I guess. That would make a sense. That would make a sense. I just. Hawaii said it like that. That would make a sense. Five stars. Middlebury is a wonderful small town, rich with Amish and Mennonite history.

[B]

Yeah, we've all been clamoring for that. For that history.

[A]

Amish and English live, work, eat, and socialize together in all of our school functions, restaurants, and churches. They said Amish in English in, like, the 1700s when it was just English people here. Right. We're not all English now. That's weird to say the Amish in English. Finally, one star. The town I live in, only the town I live in have only two parks that are seldomly used. Have only two parks that are seldomly used. People generally go out to the nearby towns to find things to do and how to entertain themselves. So there's that and then things to do here in this town. The Middlebury Summer Festival. It's a big deal here, boy. This is the 56th coming this year. Oh, shit. Been going on a long time, since 1949. Steeped in history. Gather your family to reconnect with old friends and make new ones while enjoying live bluegrass and gospel music, delicious festival fare, artisan crafts, children's activities, and much more. They have the largest small town parade in our area. That's what they claim. The largest small town parade in our town.

[B]

We don't know about the other small town.

[A]

I don't know. Free entertainment and live music, which we'll talk about in a moment here. And the run is back with five exclamation points. So that must have been a. Must have been really clamoring for that one.

[B]

They couldn't do it.

[A]

They've been just chomping at the bit for that shit. And then a summer festival, three on three. Basketball tournament on Saturday as well. So you got that. Now the bands here and different activities. Here you have Starving Artist, which is a band, and I bet they are too. Probably starving, but they're not.

[B]

Not eaten by this quite hungry money. That's for sure.

[A]

No, especially from their coveted 12pm Friday slot that they got. I really feel like.

[B]

Feels like that was free.

[A]

That's an opener. Yeah. 50 bucks for the whole band. All right. Yeah, that's one of those. Keith Miller will be there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Miller's little brother.

[A]

That's. Yeah, he's just gonna sing Jet Airplane over and over again. Buddy Pearson will be here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who sounds like a 50s comedian, doesn't it? The Buddy Pearson show. Hey, everybody.

[B]

Or something that just covers like the Big Bopper.

[A]

Yeah, it's a 50s guy. Marty Miles. There's just one singular name, people.

[B]

It's a bunch of. Yeah, and it's a bunch of, like, names of Big Bopper style.

[A]

Yeah. But they're singing bluegrass and gospel. The barrel scrappers are going to play after that, but they're going to have to compete with the rail of the tractor pole, which is going on at the same time.

[B]

Best of luck.

[A]

Good job. Good luck, assholes. Jesus Christ. There's also a fishing tournament, which makes me think of Funny Farm every time. You're just beating the shit out of them. You're beating the piss out of them. That's what it was. You're not knocking them out. You're just beating the piss out of them. Pancake and sausage breakfast. We got the three on three thing. Cornhole tournament, of course. Let's see. And free face painting, of course, with artist Linda Pieri. So there you go. That's what they got going on there. That said, let's talk about some murder, shall we? You don't want to talk about bluegrass gospel music anymore? Come on, Jimmy. Jesus Christ, Be a sport. What are we doing here? All right, let's go back in time a little bit. 20 years, 2005, we're going to go back to. So, you know, pretty similar to today. Cell phone in your hand. Not doing as much though. Just. You're still. You're real excited. It's taking pictures at this point.

[B]

Jacked about That I still remember T zones from T Mobile. The most frustrating shit on the planet. Why even act like this is the Internet?

[A]

This is not the Internet. If you want to check your email, you can do it in about an hour and a half. So there's that while you wait for it to load. So this one, 2005. Let's start by talking about a lady here. Barbara Jo Neff is her. That's how she was born. Later on, she'll be Keim K E I M. Wow. Keim or Keem, however you want to do it. I'm sure it's Kaim Barbara here. She's 41 years old in 2005. So she's born in 64. She's from this area. She's from Elkhart County. Lived here her whole life. She has one brother and four sisters. So she's one of six kids. That's a lot.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That's a lot. Real close with her sisters as well as I would imagine five sisters would probably. Five sisters, all girls. There's five sisters and one brother.

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

That kid is. Man, how many times has he been made over? He's like, oh, God.

[B]

Everything he sees has a tint of pink to it. Everywhere he looks, pink is burned into his fucking retinas.

[A]

He could probably do makeup better than Trixie Mattel, though. I bet this guy, he's been. He's been made up quite a bit.

[B]

Yeah, that guy knows the smoky eyelids for sure.

[A]

So people always say about Barbara, she is a nurturer and very, very nice, caring woman. Which makes sense because she eventually goes into a career in nursing, which. Oh, yeah, those two things kind of go hand in hand. You can't be like, I just hate people, but I want to be a nurse.

[B]

I hate taking care of them.

[A]

I just hate being at their beck and call and helping them and shit. I just don't like it. So, yeah, she ends up becoming a nurse at the General Hospital in the maternity department in Elkhart County. So she's a maternity nurse. So that's, you know, that's tough. That's tough. And it's nice because there's a lot of joy in that, too. You know what I mean? People are happy.

[B]

Turnover.

[A]

You got 48 hours coming in and getting out. Unless it's, you know, something complicated. Most of the deliveries are probably joyous.

[B]

The baby stays and mom gets the fuck out.

[A]

If it lives. Yeah, if everybody lives, it's great. Well, that's.

[B]

Jesus, that's a dark.

[A]

It's dark. It's dark. My first daughter, neonatal intensive care unit for a while. If it lives, we will be happy. That's what it feels like. So 1986, she meets a man named Alex Stone. Now Alex Stone is a Methodist and in various articles they call him a Methodist preacher, pastor and priest, which I don't know what Methodists have, but he's the guy in the front telling you what Jesus did. Let's just say that much.

[B]

He's not a moil.

[A]

I don't know. Yeah, and he's a moil also. So she meets him and they get married in late 1986. They are going to have a young daughter in 1988 named Hannah. So Hannah Stone is her name, 1988. Yeah. We'll talk about her in a little bit here. So 1991, she divorces Alex, the first husband, Alex Stone. Barbara and him get a divorce. A couple years later she's going to marry a man named Robert Keim. That's how she got the Keim. And they're going to have a son as well. In about the year 2000, they're going to have a little boy named Timothy. So, yeah, they're gonna. She's got the two kids from separate marriages and she's also very big into church. Barbara, she likes to go to church. And she's a very small town, Indiana. I mean, nurse, you know, she's very nice. She hasn't lived in Middlebury very long when she's been around Elkhart county here. But everyone knows her as a nice person. Everyone thinks she's a, you know, a sweetheart basically. Here everyone at the hospital loves her, thinks she's great. She's, you know, everybody wants to work with her. So 1996 is when she ends up marrying Robert. Okay. Now, Hannah, the daughter, doesn't like Robert. No, no, absolutely not. They don't get along apparently a lot. Not sure why, but. And she's like 8 years old at the time they get together. Wow.

[B]

Yep, that's why.

[A]

But it's tough. Yeah. So they don't get along and that causes a lot of strife in the household and things like that. Robert was a deputy sheriff with the Elkhart County Sheriff's Office. And he apparently was very strict and stern, very strict and stern with Hannah, who was not used to that. And if you start imposing that on an eight year old girl who hasn't had that, it's gonna be some issues there.

[B]

He's basically a town sitter. Yeah, that's no fun. You want the town sitter in your house.

[A]

That is Tough man. Yeah.

[B]

He tells adults what to do.

[A]

Yeah. He's always watching them when they're bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Catches them. Yeah. He's on the side of the road. You're driving too fast. Jesus, calm down.

[B]

Punishes them.

[A]

Fuck Jesus. So 2000 is when the little boy Timothy is born. And Hannah loves her little brother, by the way. She holds no acrimony toward the little brother for being like a relation, a product of a relationship she's not crazy about. So. But she would always tell her friends that Barbara loved her little brother more than she loved her. So that was a thing she was known for saying all the time. Oh, my mom only cares about my little brother and things like that. Which is just what you feel like when you are the kid from the previous family and now you're. You're the fourth wheel in a new family. You know what I mean?

[B]

When you are the child whose novelty wore off.

[A]

Yeah. That's how you feel whether it's true or not. I had it twice. Both my parents wanted to get remarried and have kids, so I was like, oh, okay. So I always felt like I was never. Even though they didn't try to make me feel like that or anything, but I never felt like I was a part of anybody's family. Always felt like I was my own entity. You know, you go back and forth, it's made.

[B]

It's made more fucked up when like your parents call each other to celebrate and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, they were real nice. Yeah.

[B]

Remember we got married and made that stupid fuck head kid?

[A]

Remember when we did that dumb shit and they're both still married to the people they remarried? Had real stable shit. And you know, my brothers had like real stable upbringings and all that. Mine is a fucking mess. And it's like, yeah, thanks guys.

[B]

I never even thought about that.

[A]

That's a lot of funniest thing I've ever heard. Yeah. You wonder why I'm like kind of leery of joining things your parents call.

[B]

Each other to laugh that they used to be married.

[A]

Isn't that weird? It's fucking true, man.

[B]

See, we made a human being together, but they think it's hilarious.

[A]

It's funny as shit. Through the course of this show, people have gotten to know me and a little weirdness, a little peek behind the curtain every once in a while and what created this might help, but I.

[B]

Think that's certainly detrimental to your fucking development.

[A]

Wasn't helpful, I'll tell you that much. That's why you become a comedian. You're like, look at Me? I know you got a cute baby.

[B]

But look over here.

[A]

I'm funny. Christ, that's so. Give me a microphone so I can fucking make people listen to me.

[B]

It's your weekend to have a reminder that we used to be married.

[A]

Hope he doesn't cramp your guys style too much. Here you go. Take it with you.

[B]

Would you take James? We're trying to have a happy life.

[A]

We're trying to have a happy life.

[B]

I was just gonna ask you the same thing.

[A]

It's even sadder because it was little Jimmy. Will you take little Jimmy? That's even sadder. That's outside of the show. I'm Jimmy to everybody else though. That's fucked up too. Makes it sound sadder. Fucking shit me with my fucking ball cut. Nice. Perfect. Looking like 77 Pete Rose.

[B]

Unreal.

[A]

Okay, so yeah, that's what's going on here. So Barbara would always reassure Hannah she loved both of them equally. And I believe Barbara too, from what everybody says, she didn't treat them poorly or anything like that. But anyway, before Hannah, right before she gets to high school, Barbara and Robert decide to get a divorce. So they split up. So, yeah. So now Barbara and Hannah end up moving into a small apartment in Middlebury. And then the son has its shared custody with the father, so he goes back and forth.

[B]

So we've got two failed marriages now.

[A]

Two failed. Yeah. And Hannah's like, well, how do you like that little brother now? Now who's the intruder?

[B]

Now you know how it feels.

[A]

One of us lives here all the time Now. A little bit about Hannah here. People always call her the preacher's daughter. That's a big thing. Preacher's daughter. Preacher's daughter. Because her dad's a preacher. So that. That has a lot of tentacles to it. Being a preacher's kid, that's sometimes positive and sometimes negative. So when she entered high school, she was feeling rebellious. We'll say. I'm sure it's just, you know, the way it is. It makes sense. She transferred to the high school in Middlebury and found a new group of friends. And they're a little more of a kind of like an emo gothy group than she's used to, that she used to hang out with. But it's high school, so. Yeah, you find people. Yeah, it's just the way they dress and what music they listen to. It's. I mean, it's all you don't. I like you have a weird lifestyle in high school. Go home and eat dinner with your parents and then Put black shirts on, who gives a shit?

[B]

It's just how you. You're just projecting how you feel, that's all. That's how you feel.

[A]

And when we get it, that's it. So she really gets tight with her new group of friends and she. That's kind of like her support system in terms of the way she thinks about it here. And basically there isn't a lot to do around Middlebury for a teenager.

[B]

No, I can't imagine.

[A]

So you just drive around the back roads of Amish country is all you do. Like as a teenager and even, even.

[B]

Like saying, I'm from middle. It sounds so lovely.

[A]

It sounds very nice. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Doesn't sound like there would be a kid with all black clothing there and black lipstick.

[A]

No. I would have certainly found a field to grow weed in here. This. That would have been my teenage goal here.

[B]

At the exact same spot every day. There we go back and see.

[A]

Keep going. See what's going on here. So they would drive around and you know, play music and do all that kind of thing here. Now she has a complete jerk off of a boyfriend.

[B]

Of course she does.

[A]

This guy Spencer. And that's with an S, by the way. Spenser, not ce. Oh yeah. Spence. Someone is not good at spelling in his family. Spencer Anthony Crumpets. K, R, E, M, P, E, T, Z. Krempets as a bad name. He's. He's 18 in 2005, so he's a year older than Hannah. And apparently they met at a place called the Post, Hannah and Spencer, which is a youth center outside of Middle Middlebury where local bands play and they have like a little coffee shop kind of a thing going on and kids hang out there. Which sounds like the 50s, I mean, or, or any.

[B]

Any. It's basically the. The center spot for that. Every fucking city has too, you know, I didn't.

[A]

We didn't have a little coffee spot where the teens heard the bands bop. No. If you wanted to go somewhere, fucking New York City's an hour away. Get in a fucking train and go see, you know, go see Metallica at Madison Square Garden. You pussy. What are you doing? No one wants to do this, but this person. I don't know. This sounds like the 50s, though. We're going to go down to a little coffee shop and hear the bands play. Put your hoop skirt on. It's strange.

[B]

We had just no bands playing, but it was where everybody congregated. You know what I mean? Perhaps.

[A]

Oh, you'd have like places people hung out At. Yeah, yeah, totally. But like to have local bands playing that. It looks like one of those early 60s movies where everybody's bopping. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like there weren't many bands that were playing. I was a kid either.

[A]

No, no, never. So. And yeah, if they were, it was in someone's garage. So the way they met is Spencer met one of Hannah's girlfriends and offered her a cigarette, which is a nice. Come on. Want to smoke, baby?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she said no. Square. What? He was square?

[B]

No, no, that's what they called him.

[A]

No, no. Yeah, I know it's a square, but I was thinking the 50s still. I was stuck in the 50s.

[B]

I'm there with you.

[A]

So she. She, the girlfriend said no. And Spencer said, why? We're all gonna die at some point anyway. It doesn't matter. Oh, Spencer, I have such 18 year old, you know, angst, man. You're all gonna die anyway. Now Spencer's had a. Not a great life either. We'll put it. I mean this things create an 18 year old that acts like a jackass. They're made. They're not just. They don't sprout out of the ground.

[B]

Looking for attention though. That's.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I mean, he is just screaming, look at me, look at me, look at me.

[A]

Oh, it' clothes, everything. He's got. He's a lot of Damien. He's got a lot of Damian Echols in him as far as. And that's not an insult even to Damian Echols, because that's like as far as he wants to show. I'm not like you hicks in this little town. And I am. I am different. That's his thing. You know what I mean? And he's a. And it's the same type of thing. He's a smart kid that has shit grades.

[B]

Yeah, same.

[A]

We all know those people. That's what I mean. There's a lot of those in every town. He was molested when he was five by an older kid.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

At least it wasn't like his grandfather or somebody in a position of trust. An older kid, but still. That'll fuck your whole shit up, obviously. So he was in and out of an abusive household. He attended 13 schools, which puts. That puts me to shame. So that sucks. 13 schools. He is smart, but he gets shit grades. He started drinking while still in elementary school.

[B]

Yikes.

[A]

And by 11, he was smoking weed and doing acid as well. You. You should not be doing. You shouldn't be smoking weed or drinking either.

[B]

Doing acid.

[A]

But you should definitely not be doing acid till your brain is fucking.

[B]

That'll make cartoons fun.

[A]

You got your. Your concrete has to set a little bit before you start doing acid because that fucks with your brain. It really does.

[B]

Footprints in it. Yeah.

[A]

So then from ages 14 to 16, he was doing heroin.

[B]

This is terrible.

[A]

This is not good. Then when he was 16, he gave up heroin, but he learned that the guy he always thought was his father wasn't his father.

[B]

Fantastic.

[A]

Which is also, again, never good at all. That's.

[B]

When does he start mutilating puppies?

[A]

Gonna say, that's what they think. Set Ted Bundy off, Right? Yeah. To this day, that's what everybody thinks. Set Ted Bundy off. When he found out that his. Who we thought was his dad. Wasn't his dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that age, around 16, that's when he left home and moved out and he moved in with friends and things like that. He got real into the whole death thing. That was a real big thing. Much like Damien Eccles, he was real into the whole death thing. He stole. This is funny. He stole bats from Halloween displays. Will. Wings. Yeah. Batty. So that's not real dark. Let's be realistic here. Just because he thought it was cool to hang bats around. But, I mean, from Halloween, displays are not exactly.

[B]

What are you, a vampire?

[A]

Yeah. If he was out, like, killing bats and, like, you know, laminating them and hanging them from his ceiling, that would be weird. Yeah.

[B]

When your bedroom just smells like rubber, that's no good.

[A]

That's strange. So he's real into, like, you know, metal music, obviously. And anything about death, you know, I'm sure he's into, like, that weird Northern European death metal and shit like that. He spent the night in a mausoleum a couple times just to be creepy and tell people that. Here he would walk around Middlebury in a black trench coat. Does this sound familiar? If you've listened to the West Memphis stuff, a lot of kids like this.

[B]

At this time, too.

[A]

That's it. Yeah. And this was just to try to make people look at him. He was trying to cause a stir and that's it. He tried to make a statement by the way he walked, and he tried to intimidate people, and people mentioned. People would always say that he had an evil look in his eye. I don't know what that means other than I'm 18 and I want to be tough so nobody else molests me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, psychologically, that's what's behind that. You know what I mean?

[B]

Keep your finger out of my ass.

[A]

That's it. So, August 3, 2005. This is all kind of coming to a head where, as you can imagine, Barbara is not thrilled that Hannah has chosen this man as her boyfriend.

[B]

It's a little disappointing, sure.

[A]

Not liking him at all. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about the safest sponsor ever. Simply safe. Absolutely. These people will keep you safe. It's amazing, you know that every 26 seconds, a burglary takes place in the United States. According to the FBI, that means that by the time this podcast is over, dozens and dozens of homes will have been targeted, ransacked. God knows what happens here. So protect your home before it's too late. With SimpliSafe proactive security system. SimpliSafe helps stop threats before they even have a chance to break in. Named best home security system by U.S. news and World Report five years in a row. And by us for about the last eight years as well, if you trust us. Believe me, you want SimpliSafe. So visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system with professional monitoring plan and your first month free. That's simplisafe.com small there's no safe like SimpliSafe.

[B]

Now back to the show.

[A]

This show, Small Town Murder, is brought to you by BetterHelp. Get yourself some therapy, everybody. Honestly here. We often hear about, you know, red flags that you should avoid. That's a lot of a thing. It's become a real phrase now. Real cliche, but why don't you focus also, you look at, like, green flags, and friends and partners look for good things as well. And maybe you're not sure what that looks like, though therapy can help you figure that out. What are positive things? What are the green flags? And then you can practice them in your relationship. It's absolutely a fact. And so honestly, we absolutely are huge advocates for this. It really, really helps. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable. It's convenient. They serve over 5 million people worldwide. You can access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists. Wide ranges of specialties there. Here's the coolest part. You're not getting along with your therapist. You're just not feeling it. You can switch at any time, no extra charge. Wow. The thing is, they want you to get help. That's it. And you can do it with BetterHelp. Discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com Smalltown Murder today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H E L P.com Smalltown Murder now back to the show. It's an ongoing battle and this day it happens where finally Barbara tells Hannah, if you're not gonna break up with Spencer, you gotta get out. I can't have this here. It's too much, too much disruption. I don't want him in my house. Blah, blah, blah. So Hannah said, fine, I'll leave.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And so she and Spencer went to their friend's house, Aaron McDonald, who's 17 years old, to hang out and smoke weed and figure out what they're going to do with their lives.

[B]

Now this is the danger in giving your kid an ultimatum.

[A]

That's the problem. Yeah. Especially at 17, because they feel like if they back down now, then they're not. They're not as grown up as they thought they were. So.

[B]

Well, there's also the. I'm 17, so within at least 11 months. At maximum. 11 months. You can't tell me shit anyway.

[A]

That's part of it too, I think.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's also like you're not going to. If you're going to tell me what I can do and what I can't do, I'm going to leave. But then you don't have really a plan for how you're going to leave. You're just 17.

[B]

Yeah, of course not. Yeah.

[A]

So Aaron McDonald, their buddy here, he started, he has predates Spencer in weed smoking. He started smoking weed at age six.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I love weed. I'm a big weed guy. That is too early to start smoking weed. 6.

[B]

Certainly an interesting choice.

[A]

Wow. He's a regular presence in church and school though. And everyone thought he was a real nice kid, Aaron. He just, he kind of hides his shit behind everything here. Everyone says he's kind of a follower, you know, always trying to be a part of something. That's kind of his thing. He's got a good childhood and a good family, though I don't know how they weren't noticing that he was fucking high at age 6. But I don't know, he might have went and stayed at an aunt's house and he had an older. Who the hell knows how that happened. So when he was in elementary school though, he starts to fall behind as elementary school starts going and he basically wasn't bright enough to keep up in class, which he might have been before he started smoking weed at age six, though, who knows?

[B]

Perhaps he killed the brain cells that needed.

[A]

Fuck. He would come home from school and he'd be crying because the kids at school thought he was stupid and made fun of him for it. And he was pretty stupid. So he, and he wanted to be accepted and he wanted friends and they were just like, you're a fucking dummy. So that's how it went.

[B]

Crying because they found out. Yeah, it's not a good thing.

[A]

So you end up with this group of other kind of misfits. That's how it's the misfit toys, you know, they go together.

[B]

Yeah, dumb dumbs hang out with dumb dumbs.

[A]

That's it. So this week, by the way, Barbara's divorce just became final earlier that week. So I don't know if she was just laying down the law. I got divorced. I don't want this kid in my house either. Fuck off. Meeting Spencer, not Hannah, obviously. So August 4th is going to be a busy day for Barbara. August 4th, 2005, she's supposed to spend the morning at the Elkhart General Hospital and doing her job. The afternoon she was going to go house hunting with a friend and in the evening she had plans to get together with her sisters. So it's a full day here. Problem is she doesn't show up for any of that shit. Oh, including picking her son up also the next day, August 5, from her ex husband.

[B]

You got to do that.

[A]

So yeah, no one has heard from her since 7:30pm on August 3, basically is what they figure out. She is described as 5 foot 6 inches, 150 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes. And people at work report her missing because she doesn't, she never doesn't show up. And then when they find out she hasn't shown up anything else either. Not like Barbara at all. And the cops are called and the Middlebury police said that they're looking into it and they weren't ruling anything out. They were investigating it as a missing person case. And as a matter of fact, no one can find Hannah either. She's also missing.

[B]

Oh no.

[A]

So they're like, oh no. Mother and daughter have been disappeared here. This isn't good. Friends and family, they took like right away because it's a town of 3,500 people. The press is all over it right away. Friends and family are the next day posting flyers. It's, you know, her friend said that you just feel helpless. What more can you do? Or exhausted from lack of sleep. That's like two days later. He said she doesn't miss appointments. She's a responsible person. And yeah, so the investigation here on August 5th is so that's the day after she goes missing. August 3rd, she has a fight with Hannah. Hannah leaves. August 4th, she has a lot of plans and goes missing August 5th, the police are investigating. They're called to Barbara and Hannah's apartment to do a welfare check after one of Barbara's sisters called 911 to report that she didn't show up for work that day because work had called the sister to say, hey, do you know where your sister is? So police look around the apartment. They don't have a search warrant or anything, so they can't really search, but they do a look around a welfare check, you know, see if anybody's there. They find some cigarette butts in the living room, which they thought was odd because the sister said Barbara doesn't smoke and hate smoking and wouldn't let anyone smoke in her house.

[B]

And smoking in the house of somebody that doesn't smoke, that's crazy.

[A]

Oh, they're gonna.

[B]

That's insane.

[A]

No one does that. Out past about 1985. That's never happened.

[B]

Yeah, smoking in somebody's house.

[A]

Back in the day, we all had that, like, old uncle who was, like, 70, who, no matter whose house they were in, he was allowed to smoke because he was smoking. I had one of those. You just get him an ashtray. He's lighting up, so you might as well get him an ashtray. So police didn't know if maybe they were. The cigarette butts belonged to Hannah or maybe some of her friends, because no one's home at the time. So they don't know what's going on. They do see her wallet laying out on the table. Barbara's wallet, her ID is still in there, but her credit card is missing, along with some cash, but there's some cash there still, which is interesting. So they said, that's odd.

[B]

Why would you.

[A]

Yeah, but they ruled it that there's suspicious activity because of the cigarette butts that definitely don't belong to the resident. So they decide they're going to really look into this further here. So they put out an attempt to locate notice for Barbara and Hannah, and they're missing. They called the hospitals and different police departments and everything else. And now this is an apartment. So there's people who live above and below Barbara as well. And they said that several neighbors that lived above and below said that they heard scuffling the day before on August 4, and also heard yelling and screaming, but they just thought, you know, people were fighting.

[B]

Barbara's gonna. Barbara.

[A]

None of my business. Yeah, so they weren't called that night. Nobody called the cops, but the detectives said, oh shit, now we've heard scuffling and screaming and they're missing and their cigarette butts and something's not right here. So later that day, police get a call from Barbara's ex husband who is a cop, Robert, the one she just divorced. And obviously the divorce just went through last week, so they would love to have a chit chat with this fucking guy.

[B]

Oh, those guys are oftentimes not good.

[A]

They oftentimes know how to hide things too.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So he called to report that, that Barbara was supposed to pick up the five year old and take care of him and she didn't show. So he said, no, we don't have even a bad relationship. Our divorce was amicable. Mute, you know, it was a mutual split. Everything is fine, we're still friends. So he gave police her phone number, other contact info, relative, anybody he could give them basically, and cooperated completely. They later interviewed her other ex husband, Alex Stone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he said he would file an official missing persons report for his daughter Hannah. That way they can get search warrants and really attack this thing here. So one of Barbara's neighbors says that they witnessed a couple people taking out the trash from Barbara's apartment on the night of the 4th, August 4th, and loading some boxes into Barbara's red vehicle. The person was described as a female with dark hair and heavy set, which describes Hannah pretty well. And the man was. Was described as a quote, thin dude. Yeah, so cowboy hat, horse under him, you know, thin dude, the part. The person also reported those two taking the red vehicle with them, which is Barbara and Hannah's car that they share. So police, once they hear that, they rush back to the apartment. When they get in the apartment, they find that the cigarette butts are gone. Now what? Cigarette butts are gone. Along with Barbara's wallet and her id, all that shit that was on the table and the keys to the car, which were there to begin with also. Holy shit, it's all gone. So somebody snuck in under the cop's nose and clean this fucking place out. Wow, so this is starting to look very nefarious now.

[B]

Yeah, no kidding.

[A]

They found that the apartment had been cleaned and police are like, well, this is obviously an attempt to get rid of some evidence here.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Now it's an official kidnapping case, not just the missing persons. So they are granted police are a subpoena for Barbara's phone and financial records. And that gives the pings of where the phone was and where it was used and everything like that. Apparently the phone was steady in normal activities up until the night of August 4th. And then nothing after that time is found. The phone just stops. The police do find with the financial records that at 10pm on August 4th, a sum of money was taken out of an ATM. $200. Using Barbara's card. They said that Barbara. Everybody said Barbara never took money out of ATMs at all. So that's strange. No, never. They said that. What they also found is that on August 5, a check for $800 was written for her account. From her account to be used for vehicle repairs.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. The check was written to a name, not cash. The name. They find it. Aaron McDonald. Remember him? He's our 17 year old friend who they went over to smoke weed at his house.

[B]

Sure, yeah.

[A]

The dummy. The dummy, yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So apparently they had had previous contact with him in the past for minor incidents. So they knew where he lived and who he was and how to get a hold of him. So they question him about the check and he claims and the disappearance of Hannah and Barbara. And he says, I don't know anything about it. He said, I don't know. Me and my friend Nate did vehicle repairs on her car and Barbara's car. So that's what the money was for. And the cop was like, I don't think. So they go, you're not a fucking mechanic. First of all, you're a dummy 17 year old.

[B]

You don't know how shit works.

[A]

You're not a mechanic. And they said, well, let me get your friend Nate's contact information. So they talk to Nate and he says, I wasn't with McDonald then. No, I didn't fix any. I don't know what the fuck he's talking about.

[B]

Nope, that was a real dummy thing to do. Involve somebody that has no idea what you're talking about.

[A]

None. But loop him in though. Don't tell him ahead of time. Yeah. So he said that he was nervous that if he tells what he knows, then he's gonna get in trouble. Okay, so Nate, now you have to tell everything now. That must. Now it must be really good. Now I really want to know. So Nate's mom encouraged him to come forwards here and come forward and say what you fucking know. So Nate said that McDonald told him to lie about the vehicle mechanic work and mentioned a crime involving Hannah and Spencer, the boyfriend. So at some point during this investigation here, now they have some information. They have Aaron. They get to Aaron, they come sit Aaron down, and within an hour they find Barbara. Oh, oh yeah. They make an announcement. The chief investigator for the prosecutor's office said a body has been found.

[B]

Oh no.

[A]

We have not made a positive identification. We're withholding any other further information until positive identification is made. Persons of interest are being interviewed. They know. So Aaron took the cops to her body. Here she is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then it, this is now Saturday night of that week at 3:40am the they find at the Goshen Motel nearby. They find the red car, Barbara's car, parked in the vehicle parked in the parking lot of the motel. So the vehicle has a broken out window and there's also vomit on the side of the vehicle next to it. So that's interesting. So they surround everything. They talk to the people in the hotel and they're like, by any chance is this person or this person or this person registered? And lo and behold, there is a Spencer Krempitz registered to one of the hotel rooms. So they make entry into the room, they kick the door down. There's Hannah and Spencer in bed together, all snuggled up. There they are.

[B]

We need more towels.

[A]

Oh shit. Housekeeping is a motherfucker now. So they hold him at gunpoint. There's no resistance. They actually come. Nobody says shit. They arrest Hannah. Some of Barbara's things were in the room as well. They were stolen from the house. So Aaron McDonald also arrested, obviously here he was, you know, he knows too much. Yep. Apparently he had his conscience got to him here. And he had called his aunt on the night of August 6th and his aunt showed up and he was crying when she showed up. And he explained that Spencer killed a lady and that he was with them when it happened.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

So the while he is sobbing and confessing to his aunt, the police show up and take him into custody. So like we know you got something to tell us, brother, you're a crying.

[B]

What's up? The tears, bud.

[A]

What's up with that? So yeah, they figure out and then he takes them to the body. Now what the fuck happened? How did this happen? Why?

[B]

And yeah, what's going on?

[A]

How? Well, obviously Barbara was abducted from her apartment here. Clearly they said it would appear that she was murdered in either the late hours of Thursday evening or early Friday morning. Based upon the information that we have. It was, it would appear that she was murdered in the cornfield where she was found victim of a gunshot wound to the back of the head.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay, so they said that apparently and we'll get into the details of it, but they bum rushed her and Bound her wrists with tape and duct taped her eyes and mouth shut and everything too. Fuck. So they. They loaded her into the car, drove her toward the county line, and then they. They let her into a cornfield and shot her in the back of the fucking head.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So they said. The police announced statements from Spencer Krempitz and Aaron McDonald state that the idea to commit this act belonged to Hannah Stone.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

Yeah. Hannah Stone, Spencer Krempitz and Aaron McDonald provided police with statements admitting guilt in this crime. They said, whatever reasons we determine will not be any reasons that anyone of normal sensibilities can justify.

[B]

You're not gonna understand this.

[A]

Cause they were asked, why'd this happen? Oppressors ask. And they're like, you don't wanna know. You crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You've been doing acid since you're 11. If not, I don't think you can explain it.

[B]

You can't relate.

[A]

No. So here is the whole lowdown and what happened here. Okay. Apparently Hannah and Spencer, after the fight between Hannah and Barbara about you're not allowed to see Spencer anymore, Hannah and Spencer came to Aaron's house to hang out and smoke some weed. Now, they said they wanted to rob and kill Hannah's mom. That was the plan. MacDonald said. She said that her and her mother didn't get along. Hannah's mom wouldn't let her see Spencer, wouldn't let her and Spencer be together. So McDonald said at first he wasn't interested, but when they brought it up again, he was like, well, apparently they really want to do it. I should help. So he offers to borrow a gun from a friend of his.

[B]

That's a. That's a step.

[A]

That's a step. Yeah. He just didn't have to do that at all. And then it would have been all.

[B]

Right, if you guys don't shut the fuck up about this, I'm gonna bring a gun and make you do it.

[A]

Also, we're smoking weed. What are you relaxing? Is happening right now. You're killing this man. So they plan it out. Part of the plan was that Aaron would be able to get the gun. And then they said that they'd give him $400 for. For helping out and getting the gun and helping them do this. So he is going to participate in a murder for $400. So apparently Barbara was alone and there was a knock at the door. Hannah was at the door. Okay. By herself at the door. And apparently Hannah said from outside, I need to pick up some clothes. You know, I'm not trying to bother You. I just need to pick up some clothes. I gotta get some stuff.

[B]

Gonna live with my boyfriend.

[A]

So Barbara opened the door, and Hannah walked in. And unfortunately, hiding in the stairwell, right outside the door was Spencer and Aaron.

[B]

Both of them.

[A]

Spencer Bum rushed in and tackled Barbara and started to choke her. Aaron said she was screaming. And Aaron showed her the gun and told her to be quiet. So she said. He then said that Spencer used duct tape to cover Barbara's eyes and mouth and to bind her hands. And after they bound Barbara, Aaron said that Hannah made noises like fake sniveling, like she's trying to be sad now. So, yeah, so what they said is they figured if they acted like Hannah was also being held hostage and being attacked, that Barbara would be more compliant, like, I'll hurt her if you're not cool type of thing. So that's what they tried to act like. That's why the fake sniveling. That's what that happened. So Spencer here pulls the tape off of her mouth and interrogates her, saying, where's your ATM card and your PIN number? What's your PIN number? All that kind of shit. So then Spencer starts to drag Barbara outside to her car, to her van, but a neighbor came out, so they take. They run back inside with her. Now imagine if this isn't so horrifying. It's hilarious. If this was, like, three mob guys taking another mob guy in, like, a silly movie, you'd be like, oh, that's funny. They take him out. Oh, no, back in. But it's not funny at all because this poor woman is bound and like, oh, help me. Help me. And no one can help her.

[B]

Like, Snatch is supposed to be a movie of, like. It's showing a lot of terrible things, but it's a very funny movie.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[B]

I mean, a lot of people that die.

[A]

Goodfellas is fucking hilarious. The Sopranos is hilarious. And there's a lot of, you know, the right context. It's perfect here. So he goes back inside and then. And had McDonald pull the van closer to the door so they could run out and throw her in there, basically because they had a van. And then they come back and get her car as well. So Hannah agreed to stay in the apartment in case the neighbors heard any of that shit and called the cops. She could be there to be like, I don't know what you're talking about. Everything's cool. Have a good one, guys. So they do that. Now Spencer drives the van with McDonald in the back, and they go to an ATM near the Concord Mall, where Aaron withdraws $200 from Barbara's account. So they do all of that. They start driving again. Aaron McDonald said that I don't know where. I didn't know where we were. It felt like we drove for hours. Now, during this, by the way, Aaron is fucking basically from whatever he says, terrorizing Barbara with saying shit to her, holding the gun to her head, and he's being an asshole. This is ridiculous. At one point, though, he. Aaron says that Spencer asked me for the gun. He got out and took Mrs. Keim out of the back seat. I got out, and he was walking her into the cornfield, which is terrifying. Now, when they got out in the middle of the field, what Spencer deemed far enough, basically, he stops Barbara and he's got the gun, holding it to the back of her head, and he tells her to recite the Lord's Prayer, which is just weird. She was not doing it. Well, even though she's a church person, she's terrified and nothing is coming out, really. So Aaron helps her finish it off. Let me help you with that.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Helps her say the Lord's Prayer, then turns around and goes back to the van. Spencer, when she finished, said, you're not gonna say amen? And so Barbara said, amen, and he shot her in the back of the head. Wow. That's how that worked.

[B]

Cold blooded shit.

[A]

Yep. Spencer said he was fascinated by the way her body fell, just, you know, with nothing under it like that. So he got back to the van, and Aaron said he had no remorse at all. You can tell that by his statement. Basically, Aaron said, quote, he said he was going to have sex with Hannah and Mrs. Keim's bed. He was going to sleep in her bed. He's like, I'm going to go bang her daughter in her bed now. That's. That's his fucking plan. So obviously not a lot of remorse there.

[B]

Even Gypsy Rose and her boyfriend got a hotel.

[A]

Yeah, well, no, they had some in the house, too, but then they went to a hotel.

[B]

Not in. Not in her bed, though. She was in it still, but yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you about Noom. Has Noom helped you? I believe it has.

[B]

Oh, it's got an app you can do tracking. It's terrific.

[A]

It does. Noom builds personal plans that can meet individual needs. That's the thing. Takes into account any dietary restrictions, medical issues, other personal needs that helps build a plan that works for you. And. Yes. So you've I know that you've had your own personalized program here that you've been working on and weight loss, that.

[B]

That, that this is, this is weight loss results that last. They stick around because you, you get yourself into a lifestyle change, that that's what matters.

[A]

That's mainly, you can't just say I'm going to cut that out for a month and then go back. That's not what it is. So I'm glad it's helping you. That's great and it really does. I like the psychology and biology based approach here. Noomweight uses psychology. That's why they say losing weight starts with your brain but it also takes into account your unique biological factors. Jimmy. All of your multitude flora and fauna that goes on inside of you there. Stay focused on what's important to you with noom's psychology and biology based approach. Sign up for your trial [e-mail] noom.com n o o m.com here based on 3.5 year study of actively engaged Noom users with minimum starting BMI of 25. Individual results may vary. Visit our website for more information. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about a healthy delicious item, Hero bread. And we're both trying to get healthier this new year. Jimmy had a eye opening doctor's appointment and things like that. So we're trying to get healthier and I'm telling you right now, this hero bread is a good step in this direction. It's delicious and it is really good for you and it's really excellent. They have the sliced bread is good, the bagels, the tortillas. I know you've been ranting about the tortillas. They're so good. With Herobred you can focus on your health goals and still indulge in the soft fluffy experience you love. But guilt free. I really love the little Hawaiian rolls too. Yeah, they're so good. They're so good. The Hawaiian rolls, they're legit. They're fluffy. They're exactly how you want them to be. You'd never know it's low carb and high fiber bread. From the texture you get the soft fluffy experience you know and love with your savory breakfast sandwich. Late night grilled cheese taco Tuesday. Do it. No compromises, just flavor. Ultra low net carbs, zero grams of sugar, high in fiber. It's fantastic. Herobred is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use the code. Small town murder at checkout. That's Small Town Murder at H E R O CO. And now back to the show. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you all sorts of good stuff about chime. That's what I'm talking about. There's so many extra fees you have to pay in life. Everything. You go to the airline, there's an extra ticket on that, there's extra fee on every fee, hotels fees, all this type of stuff. We're trying to make progress and the next thing you know, here comes another fee coming at you and it's more money than you expected and your whole math is thrown off and it's awful. Learn [e-mail] SmallTownMurder Chime is great with that stuff. I mean, you can't beat if you're. Things are a little tight, especially around the holidays or after the holidays, you need that money a couple days early or you go grocery shopping, you got a car payment due. There's so many things that don't cross over exactly how you want them to cross over. Make progress toward a better financial future with Chime. Open your account in two [e-mail] smalltownmurder that's chime.com Smalltown Murder feels like progress. Banking services and debit cards provided by Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA Members. Fdic Spot ME eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible CHIME members enrolled in Spot ME and are subject to monthly limits. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs.

[B]

And now back to the show.

[A]

So Mcaren said that Spencer said it felt good to take someone's soul. And he said, what the fuck? Yes. He said Spencer was talking crazy and even roared like a lion. He was trying to show off that look how crazy I am. So they drove to a gas station and they both bought cigarettes. They stopped at another ATM, but $200 limit on that one babe per day.

[B]

So you gotta wait till tomorrow.

[A]

Yep. Couldn't get any more money, so they drove. Big spender. So they drove to a house they could get drugs at in Elkhart. And they bought some weed. And then they went to another gas station to buy some rolling papers. Then they drove back to Barbara's apartment to meet up with Hannah. We got cigarettes, weed and rolling papers. It's party time.

[B]

We're flush.

[A]

Flush. So Spencer and Aaron, they drive back to meet up with Hannah. And Aaron said that they were going back so he could have sex in her bed and all that kind of shit. Once they got to the apartment, they got stoned and just chilled out and said that Hannah was giddy and excited. Hannah was in a happy mood and laughing. And she said, this is Aaron's quote. She told Spencer, don't you know you've got blood on your face? And they were laughing about it.

[B]

He's been doing this all day with blood on his face.

[A]

With blood on his face. He's been going to stores and shit. Didn't even go in the bathroom, wipe it off. And at one point, Hannah said, I love. My mom's dead. Wow. So then Aaron went home. The next morning, Spencer and Hannah woke him up and asked if he wanted to go out. He said no. So they went and did something, but Aaron said he wanted to do something. He went back to Barbara's apartment and stole a check and wrote it, a check to himself for $800 and cashed it. And that's how he's in this fucking mess. So, yeah, now the cops are real happy with themselves over this.

[B]

Very impressed. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Law enforcement personnel made something happen and made it happen quickly. Really. From Friday to Sunday. A lot of manpower went into this case. They're like, man, they have, like, a woman who's like, oh, Jesus, I can't move after you. And they're like, yeah, I gave her. They gave it to her good. Yeah, there she is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. And then they said another statement. Normal people, we want to believe there's a reason or some rationale behind why these things occur. And it's hard to get caught up in that. Whatever reasons we determine won't be any reasons that anyone of any normal sensibility can justify. So the funeral, they have a big, giant funeral. And, you know, it's a. It's a big deal here. Obviously, the preacher made sure to say to follow Barbara's example and learn to extend love without judgment.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Matter who did this or what happens, you know, be fucking. You know, she wants you to be all Christian about it, so you should. Now, after his arrest, Spencer went back and forth here and he wrote a letter that he tried to send to Hannah in jail, but it was intercepted, of course. He said they were stupid to think they could get away with it. And at the end, he wrote, what we did was senseless and reckless.

[B]

Dumb Jesus.

[A]

He also wrote a giant thing to the judge, like a fucking book about why he did this and his thoughts and feelings and just. It's a diary, basically. And then he said, here you go. You guys have that.

[B]

I'm A disturbed individual. Yeah, read about it.

[A]

He said at one point, he said, if you're going to get caught and go to jail or prison, you might as well go for something big, go big or go home.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Really. So he's going to go big and go home. He's going to go big and go to court is what he's going to do. Because he's in a lot of fucking trouble. He is the trigger person. He says it, admits it, and Aaron says it too. And the fact that he did it really coldly, there's a lot of call for the people want the death penalty for this kid. So in order to avoid any of that, he's going to plead guilty to murder. Yeah, he's gonna plead guilty. Now there's a pre sentencing, a two week delay so his attorneys could present a detailed mental health evaluation here. And the sentencing. This is what his, the doctor said. The psychiatrist, Dr. Yoder testified that Krempitz was manipulative, glorified his problems and was deceptive during testing. So not a good guy at all is what he said. All the victims come in as well. All the victims. Barbara's family, you know, her sister said, our beloved sister, aunt, mother and friend is gone forever. Which is bad because the death penalty was not an option. We feel that life without parole is the only adequate sentence. They also said there's no words to describe the pain and grief they've caused many families, not just ours. And yeah, and then they talk about how little Timothy's not going to have his mom and all this type of shit. And that's horrible. So the judge here has his writings as Spencer's writings. And Spencer requested that the judge read them in order to understand what was going on that way. That's, that's his like statement as I'm going to give you this whole manuscript and you can read it. And that's my statement of why I shouldn't get life without parole. So the judge says that in this Spencer focuses on his girlfriend and complains among other things, that she was the central wrongdoer in the commission of this offense. He also said that she was getting in the way of my affairs. Spencer said, what affairs do you have? You're an 18 year old jerk off, you have no affairs. And he also said, I just wanted to kill. The money was just a bonus.

[B]

What the fuck?

[A]

He said he's been fascinated with robbery and murder for a long time and he was into it. He described himself as a, quote, young man who is trying to do his girlfriend's bidding, trying to make himself useful, and probably trying to impress her that he could be counted on to do the tough things that she didn't want to do. So the judge said, at times, you led a very lonely existence. You turned to drugs, alcohol, sexual activity, rebellion, perhaps. To cope, you read a rather nomadic lifestyle. You claimed few friends. You were somewhat desperate for attention. Hannah Stone clearly filled a void in your life. You missed your family. She became your family. Taking a life seemed to fascinate you. You wanted to see what it was like. You wanted to know what it was like. At one point, the judge asked Spencer if he thought about backing out. And he said, but from your writings, it says in your own words, you did think about backing out, but you, quote, fought it off, the way you put it.

[B]

Yikes.

[A]

Fought off the urge to be a fucking decent human being. You know, I thought about it for a while, but I was like, no, that's crazy.

[B]

I considered it.

[A]

Yeah. And then the judge says. Talks about making her recite the prayer. Okay. And he said, you wanted to know. And this is what Spencer wrote in his thing. You wanted to know if God would deliver Barbara from evil. You didn't think he would, which, no. They also note the contrary to Spencer's claim that he acted under the domination of his girlfriend. The trial court recounted his statements where he said, among other things, this is nobody's fault but my own. Nobody twisted my arm. And I was only convinced that at the time it was the thing to do. And also to think we thought we could get away with it. So stupid. These are all quotes from his writing to the judge, by the way. So he shouldn't have wrote that shit and then said something else in court because the judge is going to notice. So the judge says, they're pretty good.

[B]

At picking up on that shit.

[A]

Pick up on little things like that. It's kind of their job.

[B]

Hypocrisy and lies, that shit.

[A]

They say, you, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole for young Spencer. 18. Life without. 18 in life. You got it. That's it right there.

[B]

Threw it away.

[A]

Fucking. He's like, I'm finally a skid row song. Yes, finally.

[B]

Sebastian Bach for singing my anthem.

[A]

Fucking A. So he's also sentenced to 65 years for conspiracy to commit murder and criminal confinement as well. But that's on top of life without parole, so who gives a shit? He says he'll appeal here. Yeah. Which I don't know how, because he's. He admitted it. He does all that. Hannah wants to change a venue Reciting quote, public hostility against the defendant, intense publicity and public outrage over the offense. That's weird that people get mad when you kill your mom for no reason. Who's a nice lady who didn't do anything to anybody. Real strange. She argued she can't get a fair trial in the county because her mother was married to a police officer with the sheriff's department. Even though they were divorced the week before, she said that's still going to fuck her good anyway. They say, nah, you're good here, let's just stick around. So Hannah is going to have to plead guilty as well. I mean both of her co conspirators are putting her right there. You know, there's no way murder, conspiracy and criminal confinement here. The prosecuting attorney during sentencing said, Timothy is a five year old boy who has strong memories of his mother. Tomorrow those memories will fade and he won't be able to think of the wonderful memories he had of his mother. Now Hannah here said that, quote, I was to knock at the door of the apartment and Mr. Krempitz was. And her voice is trailing off. They had to tell her to speak up a couple of times. She said, and Spencer was gonna, I don't know the word he was gonna get her. He taped her using duct tape. She said Aaron had the gun to threaten her, to be quiet, to keep her from screaming. And she said then Spencer tied her up or taped her up and she said from that point on they, I don't know what order they were going to a bank or to the cornfield, I don't know. That's what she said. Well, the judge says there is something I know and that is you young lady, may fuck off. Yeah, okay. 55 years in prison for the murder of the mother. 30 years for conspiracy to commit murder and 15 years for criminal confinement while armed with a deadly weapon to be run consecutively.

[B]

Oh Jesus.

[A]

Not concurrently. 100 years for Hannah. 100 years. She will be eligible for parole in 2053 at the age of 65. So she's gonna go in basically never living an adult life outside of prison. She goes in at 17 and comes out a senior citizen. Think about that.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

Never like just, I'm an adult, 17 to 65.

[B]

Security for that. She can't.

[A]

Yeah, she's never paid in. I guess not. But I don't know, I don't know what the system, I don't know the rules of.

[B]

What do you, I mean what do you do at that point?

[A]

They got to give her something which I mean back into society.

[B]

You've got nothing. You can't do anything.

[A]

I don't know how that goes. They also ruled in addition to 100 years she's to have no contact with her 5 year old brother as well. Oh yeah. Aaron also pleads guilty. Let's hear that. We kind of knew that was coming here. They really a lot. The family really goes hard on her and to like the. Which is understandable.

[B]

He said man it's crazy.

[A]

It's. But I mean Aaron is the reason why all these people got caught and you know, I mean so you think they'd be a little bit easier on him but I guess not so dumb.

[B]

But no.

[A]

Yeah he's a fucking dummy. So they said that you know they have to deal with the. Their kids asking where's my aunt and her kids asking or her son asking where the fuck you know where she is. The judge said. Or I'm sorry the family said the whole. The prosecutor. Jesus. The whole community is in shock. I think we all are at what such young people had in their minds. It affects the whole community and puts a certain fear in everyone. They bring in Robert, the ex husband here and he says Timothy will never have the mother that every child should have. Nobody could replace that. I just can't fathom why anybody would want to do such a heinous crime in our community. Our community needs to be safe from people like Mr. McDonald. He was easily manipulated into a scheme that could have been stopped. He could have easily walked away. He went and got the gun. Aaron said, quote. Is there anything to say for yourself? He said, quote I had money on my mind. My mind on my money and my money on my mind is what he had. Yep. What I just wanted to get my money so I could get more dope. Cocaine and marijuana. He said he read a statement to the family and said to quote. Find it in your hearts to forgive me for the senseless act I was involved in. I would do anything to bring her back. I'm not a murderer. I'm not a bad kid. He said I would do anything including my. I would give anything including my own life to turn back the clock. I'm not a bad person. I'm a kid who is at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people. If I hadn't walked out of that cornfield when I did, I would have been dead too. Which I don't think so. I don't think at all. Spencer was going to kill him. No.

[B]

Their hero. You brought the gun man.

[A]

That's What I'm saying here. Now, the prosecutor said he was. He was in the. At the wrong place at the wrong time, holding the gun is what the prosecutor said. Bullshit, they said. Also, the judge says you could have called it all off. The reason you chose not to do so. Greed. That's it. He said it's hard for you. It's hard to see you as the victim. He said all the families involved in the murder lost people. But the difference is your family can come visit you in a Department of Corrections, and that's not the case with their family. You ended up with $900. You were part of that conspiracy. You did it for financial gain. Life is not that cheap. You, sir, may fuck off. 62 years in prison.

[B]

62. Okay.

[A]

I guess his max that he could have gotten was 65. But the leading the police to the body is what took three years off.

[B]

Got three for free.

[A]

Wow. That's not a lot of credit for that, I don't think. Okay, now, 2006, everybody's in prison. An item is on ebay. Okay. An auction closes without a bid. But according to the Elkhart County Sheriff's Department, the seller, who was a teenager and it was county property he was trying to sell. Okay, now they said that ebay is the one that closed the auction down because they didn't know about ownership. An anonymous tip to the sheriff's department website led them to the auction page advertising Elkhart county jail pants worn by the Cornfield Killer.

[B]

Oh, geez.

[A]

I have Spencer's pants. The Cornfield Killer and the preacher's daughter. That's some couple. So the police concluded the Cornfield Killer referred to Spencer, who was convicted obviously of that, so police didn't have to work hard to find the person. He listed his name and address in the fucking listing.

[B]

It would have been a return address, too.

[A]

Jesus Christ. The teen noted he was unable to receive electronic payments, so the winning bidder had to send a check or money order to this address with this name.

[B]

I don't have a bank account.

[A]

Wow. It was. I guess the started at $30 and the buy it now price was $500.

[B]

They wanted 500 bucks for these things.

[A]

Fucking ridiculous. Now, they checked the records and they said that he had been in jail during the time Spencer was there, but they'd never stayed in the same ward and would not have had contact. This guy just got an idea. I got pants, probably his.

[B]

And he said that.

[A]

Okay, they went to his house. He claimed he received the pants from the county work release center and didn't know he was supposed to return the pants or pay for them. He goes, I just thought they were my pants. I figured I'd get a. You know, get some idiot to buy them. He promised to return the clothes, but then he didn't and they arrested him.

[B]

I'll return them. Don't worry.

[A]

James. James Wright is his name of 250 East Bristol Street. He's 18 years old and a fucking dummy. That's amazing. That is fucking hilarious. He. They. Apparently the jury deliberated for 20 minutes and that was that. He got convicted of that. Now Spencer's gonna appeal, saying that his main appeal is that he shouldn't get life without parole because the robbery is separate from the murder. He says that this is amazing because it has to be wild. He says the robbery had been completed and a sufficient amount of time before the murder took place. So the act of murder is outside the course of robbery.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great point. Like, if you're a robber, you rob a bank and then two weeks later you go murder somebody. Is that robbery? What's the window?

[A]

Well, if you. If you. If you held. If you held one of the tellers hostage and then murdered them, then yes. If someone's separate, no.

[B]

When does the window stop? That's a great.

[A]

So they said, we do not agree with the defendant's narrow interpretation of the word. While you were on the way to kill her. So you stopped. That's in the same fucking thing, stupid.

[B]

It was the same day.

[A]

An hour later, it was in the same act.

[B]

If you ate, you were still full, man.

[A]

Yeah. Fuck. There's also an intentional killing while lying in wait. Aggravator the hiding and all that kind of shit. They said also, he said they didn't properly weigh his mitigating factors of his, you know, a lack of adult criminal convictions, been molested and all that kind of shit. And also that he has an impaired mental condition. And they said, well, his mental state at the time couldn't be determined. He wouldn't cooperate with psychiatrists. There's no evidence he's of an inferior intellect. As a matter of fact, he's actually smart. He's unhampered by debilitating mental conditions. Seems fine. He's a dickhead. Yeah, that's it. Remember we said he was deceptive and glorified his problems and all that kind of shit? They said, keep on keeping on dickhead life without.

[B]

Honestly.

[A]

Hannah appeals as well. She says about mitigating factors, saying she was only 18 and didn't have much of a criminal Record, even though she was on probation for something small.

[B]

That looks bad.

[A]

It looks bad, yeah. The court also notes as an aggravating circumstance that she committed the offense while under the influence of smoking marijuana, which I don't think really matters, but that's fine. So anyway, also that because the judge knows her father and had met her father at some thing in the conflict of interest. All of these people know each other. Her father knows everybody in this courtroom. Cause he's a cop. So he knows lawyers and judges. So they said that's a conflict of interest. But they. It turns out, they said it's not a conflict of interest. In the end, Aaron appeals as well. I don't know what the hell he's talking about. He's fucking. His is just the sentence. He said it was too harsh because he improperly considered aggravating and mitigating factors because it did not fit the nature of the crime and his character. They said. You sound like a dickhead. Fuck you.

[B]

I understand. I want to go home.

[A]

But I don't like this. I don't like what happened. I only got $900. This isn't worth it. So that's what happens there. January 18, 2015. Spencer kills himself in prison at age 28.

[B]

He couldn't take it.

[A]

The only way it's gonna go down. You knew that was gonna happen. You knew it. You're not getting the attention you want and all that shit in prison, you'll just get the shit beat out of you for that crap. Nobody cares.

[B]

This sucks.

[A]

And this sucks. Yep. And so he is dead at prison. In prison. July 23, 2020. Aaron McDonald dies in prison.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah, in his early 30s. Like 32 years old.

[B]

What happened to him? Was he beaten to death or did he know?

[A]

No cause revealed here. We don't know. So 23rd, 2020, might have been Covid. For Christ sake. We have no idea. Yeah, it was all lockdowns and prisons at that point. And there was all sorts of diseases fucking flying through that shit.

[B]

So that's just common anyway. But yeah, that's.

[A]

Either way, he's dead too. What about her now? Hannah? She's still alive and doing interviews. They're doing interviews about, you know, the preacher's daughter in prison and how she's in all these programs and how she's, you know, so much better.

[B]

I was influenced by two bad men. They're dead in prison.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's this. There's all these articles or she's in some documentary. In an interview with Investigation Discovery. She said she'd do anything to go back and change what happened. She says her father is her only visitor ever. Really only none of the family will talk to her. Her DOC number is 152679. And she is at the Indiana Women's Prison. And August 31, 2053 is her earliest release date. Barbara is buried at the Napanee. Oh, no, I'm sorry. The Prairie Street Cemetery in Elkhart. That is where she's buried in that, everybody.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Is Indiana.

[B]

James.

[A]

She may have never left.

[B]

Ever.

[A]

No, I don't. I don't think she ever got out of Indiana. That's it. Just from the time. It's just wild that from 17 to 65 you would be like, well, fascinating stretch. I was a minor. Now I'm a senior citizen. Okay, I'm coming out. It's just so strange.

[B]

30S, 40s, 50s, and then half of your 60s. That's wild.

[A]

Crazy shit. So there you go, everybody. If you like that show, please get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars. It helps, tremendously. Helps drive the show up the charts. Follow us on social media. We are at small town murder on Instagram. At Murder Small on. No, yeah, at Smalltown Pod on Facebook. Find that there you definitely want to go to. Shut up and give me murder.com right now. Get your tickets for live shows. February 7th, Pittsburgh, you're up first. Columbus sold out the next night. Shows are selling out in November, December. Get your tickets right now if you want them. Shut up and give me murder.com patreon.com crime and sports. All the bonus material. Anybody $5 or above, you get it all this week. What you're going to get for crime and sports, what you get. We're going to talk about Kobe Bryant's rape case. What happened? We'll find out. Then for small town murder, Internet salad, baby. A peek behind the curtain at what we do before we start, which is crack each other up, laughing, making fun of shit that's going on in the world. No fucking politics, just funny shit and other shit that's going on. So check all that out. Add more patreon.com crime and sports. You get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well. There you go. You want to follow us on social media, head to the site. Shut upandgivemerder.com Drop down menus will take you anywhere you want to go. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[B]

See you in Pittsburgh. Bye.

[A]

If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey a few miles from the glass spires of Midtown Atlanta lies the south river forest. In 2021 and 2022, the woods became a home to activists from all over who gathered to stop the nearby construction of a massive new police training facility nicknamed Cop City. At approximately 9:00 this morning, as law enforcement was moving through various sectors of the property, an individual without warning shot a Georgia State Patrol troop. This is We Came to the Forest, a story about resistance. The abolitionist mission isn't done until every prison is emptied and shut down. Love and fellowship. It was probably the happiest I've ever been in my life and the lengths we'll go to protect the things we hold closest to our hearts. Follow We Came to the Forest on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest early and ad free right now by joining Wondery.