#581 - Sexy Sunday School Teacher Slaughter - Enid, Oklahoma

Summary

Summary of Small Town Murder Episode #581: "Sexy Sunday School Teacher Slaughter - Enid, Oklahoma"

Introduction

In episode #581 of "Small Town Murder," hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmy Whisman delve into the chilling case of Brenda Evers and James Pavitt, who orchestrated the brutal murder of Brenda's husband, Rob Andrew, in Enid, Oklahoma. This detailed exploration uncovers the motives, relationships, investigative efforts, and the subsequent legal battles surrounding this tragic event.

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1. Background of Enid, Oklahoma [03:36 – 07:09]

Enid, Oklahoma, often referred to as the "Wheat Capital of the United States," is situated in Garfield County with a population of approximately 52,129. The town is characterized by its low cost of living, with median home prices around $126,400, and a predominantly white population (72.8%). Enid is a conservative, religious community with 58.7% of residents identifying as religious, predominantly Baptist (17.6%).

Notable Quote:

James Petregallo [05:44]: "Every drop. Every bit."
(Referencing the benefits of Fast Growing Trees advertisement)

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2. Introduction to the Main Characters [07:31 – 18:24]

• Brenda Evers: Born on December 10, 1963, Brenda grew up in a conservative Christian household in Enid. Described as a "typical small-town girl," she was involved in community activities like baton twirling, Girl Scouts, and Sunday school teaching. Despite her outward appearance of normalcy and dedication, Brenda harbored hidden frustrations and engaged in multiple extramarital affairs.

• Rob Andrew: Brenda's husband, a devoted father with a stable career. His relationship with Brenda deteriorated over time due to her infidelity and their ongoing marital conflicts.

• James Pavitt: An insurance broker who became romantically involved with Brenda. Initially introduced as a kind and unassuming individual, James eventually revealed a darker side, including involvement in criminal activities.

Notable Quote:

James Petregallo [12:33]: "You have to have something to make it look like she's a victim so, you know, less suspicious."

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3. The Affair and Deteriorating Marriage [18:24 – 50:07]

Brenda's dissatisfaction with her marriage led her to engage in an affair with Rick Nunley, a reservoir engineer and family friend. Her relationship with James Pavitt further complicated her personal life. Brenda manipulated situations to cover her affairs, including altering insurance policies to benefit herself and James.

James, on the other hand, struggled with personal demons, including accusations of past violent behavior that were unsubstantiated. His relationship with Brenda deepened, leading to plans to flee with her and secure life insurance benefits.

Notable Quote:

Jimmy Whisman [27:14]: "I'm positive that's really their first name."

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4. The Murder [50:07 – 66:09]

On November 26, 2001, Brenda and James executed a meticulously planned attack on Rob Andrew. Using a 16-gauge shotgun, they shot Rob twice—once in the side and once in the neck—resulting in his rapid death. Brenda sustained a superficial gunshot wound to her arm, which was later determined to be non-self-inflicted, indicating a staged scene to portray herself as a victim.

Notable Quote:

James Petregallo [83:24]: "Someone tried to kill me."

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5. Investigation and Evidence [66:09 – 140:04]

The investigation revealed several critical pieces of evidence:

• Physical Evidence: The murder weapon, a 16-gauge shotgun, was missing from the home. Bullet casings matched those found at Brenda's relatives' home.

• Insurance and Motive: Altered life insurance policies named Brenda as the beneficiary, providing a clear financial motive for the murder.

• Affairs and Manipulation: Testimonies confirmed Brenda's multiple affairs and her manipulative behavior to secure her interests.

• Confession Letter: James penned a letter confessing to the murder, attempting to exonerate Brenda, which was later scrutinized for inconsistencies and potential coercion.

Notable Quote:

Jimmy Whisman [100:07]: "She’s a real dipshit."

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6. Legal Proceedings and Trials [140:04 – 177:10]

Brenda and James faced separate trials due to the severity of their crimes. Both were convicted of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. Brenda was sentenced to death, becoming the only woman on Oklahoma's death row. James also received the death penalty but faced repeated appeals challenging the fairness of his trial, particularly concerning prejudicial evidence related to Brenda's behavior and character.

Notable Quote:

James Petregallo [177:33]: "Yeah. At this point, I don't think we're gonna know whether unbiased jurors can be seated until such time as we bring in a large panel, put them up in the jury box and voir dire them."

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7. Appeals and Current Status [177:10 – 190:06]

James's death sentence was initially overturned by the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in 2019 due to insufficient evidence of the murder being "heinous, atrocious, or cruel." However, this decision was later reinstated in 2020, placing him back on death row. Brenda's appeals also faced challenges, with the Supreme Court addressing the introduction of prejudicial evidence during her trial. In January 2025, efforts to reschedule James's execution were made due to logistical issues within the Oklahoma judicial system.

Notable Quote:

James Petregallo [185:00]: "The Supreme Court of the United States... Due process protects defendants from the introduction of evidence so prejudicial as to affect the fundamental fairness of their trials."

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Conclusion

The case of Brenda Evers and James Pavitt underscores the complexities of small-town dynamics, the interplay of personal motives, and the challenges within the judicial system in handling premeditated crimes. Despite substantial evidence linking them to the murder of Rob Andrew, ongoing appeals highlight issues of fairness and the potential impact of prejudicial testimonies in capital cases.

Notable Final Quote:

Jimmy Whisman [181:55]: "She absolutely did it."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. James Petregallo [83:24]:

   "Someone tried to kill me."

2. Jimmy Whisman [27:14]:

   "I'm positive that's really their first name."

3. James Petregallo [177:33]:

   "Yeah. At this point, I don't think we're gonna know whether unbiased jurors can be seated until such time as we bring in a large panel, put them up in the jury box and voir dire them."

4. Jimmy Whisman [181:55]:

   "She absolutely did it."

5. James Petregallo [185:03]:

   "They're acting like now. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of... A lot of sites and a lot of people who think that she's should be just innocent because they called her slut in court."

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Final Thoughts

"Small Town Murder" skillfully navigates the intricacies of the Brenda Evers and James Pavitt case, blending thorough research with the hosts' comedic flair. This episode not only recounts the grim details of the murder but also critiques the societal and legal frameworks that allowed such a tragedy to unfold.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

It's so fun to watch them actually thrive.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hi, this is Steve Buscemi. You know the actor. Well, now I'm an actor and podcast host. From Piece of Work Entertainment and Campside Media in association with Olive Productions, comes Big Time, an Apple original podcast. Each episode follows the story of one misfit with big dreams who isn't afraid to bend a few rules or take a shortcut to get there. Well, who steals bees? I was duped. I shoot you in the leg. This is big time. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts. Creating really great retail experiences is tough, especially with multiple stores, teams of staff, fulfillment centers, separate workflows. It's a lot. But with Shopify Point of Sale, you can do it all without complexity. And let's face it, acquiring new customers is expensive. With Shopify pos, you can keep shoppers coming back with personalized experiences and first party data that give marketing teams a competitive edge. In fact, it's proven based on a report from EY businesses on Shopify POS see real results like 22% better total cost of ownership and benefits equivalent to an 8.9% uplift in sales on average relative to the market set surveyed. Want more? Check [e-mail] wonder all lowercase and learn how to create the best retail experiences without complexity. Shopify.com wondery this week in Enid, Oklahoma, the horribly cruel murder of a well liked church deacon seems like an awful random attack, but there's actually a tangled web of plot that makes the whole thing so much more dastardly. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy, incredible episode of Small Town Murder. It's quite the adventure today, man. It is stuff going everywhere. A wild time. Can't wait to get into this before we do very, very quickly. Definitely make sure to head over to shut upandgivememurder.com get your tickets. First of all, tickets for live shows. Virtual live show is the Next one up. That is April 19th. It's our 4:20 virtual live show, which means costumes, which means I have crazy bongs to force Jimmy to smoke out of at different intervals in the show. Just like a regular live show except you can be anywhere in the world with Internet and you can watch it and buy it or do whatever you want with it for two weeks after the show too. Very excited. Get in there and do that and also get your tickets for regular live shows. May we are in St. Louis in Chicago. St. Louis has been sold out. Chicago. Still some tickets there at the Riviera. Beautiful venue. Get your tickets for the rest of the year too because they're selling fast. I think San Diego, Madison, Portland, a lot of sellouts so far, Grand Rapids. So get in there if you'd like to go to a show definitely this year. Shut upandgivemerder.com Listen to our other two shows as well. Crime in Sports, which we have looking like it's going to be about a 9 or 10 part Evel Knievel series going on right now. So you don't have to like sports, you just have to like crazy people to enjoy that. And also listen to your stupid opinions where we talk about some of the craziest reviews of anything and everything on earth. So it's a lot of fun. Then you should get patreon, patreon.com CrimeInSports tell you right now, the best bargain in podcasting anybody, $5 a month or above. You're gonna get a whole lot. First of all, soon as you subscribe, you're gonna get hundreds and hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one Small town murder. And how much of that do they get, Jimmy?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Every drop. Every bit.

[James Petregallo]

Every bit. Every drop of it. That's right. This week for crime and sports, we're gonna talk about some cheating scandals, including maybe the craziest thing I've ever heard. The Spanish Paralympic team, where no one was actually disabled in any way, shape or form. So we'll talk monsters. We'll talk about all of that. Then for Small Town murder. Honestly, one of the craziest stories I've ever heard in my life. Documentary on Netflix called American Nightmare. And I read the whole. I read a book about it too. Like a 12 hour audiobook. It's a lot. And it is kind of. You'd think it's a Sherry Papini situation. It's a staged kidnapping and people are lying. But then maybe not. But then maybe it's crazy. Oh my God, I can't wait to tell this story. It's gonna be so much fun. Patreon.com so check all that out and more over there. And you get a shout out at the end of the show as well. That said, disclaimer time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, Jimmy, I'll mispronounce your name on that shout out real good. Don't we worry about that? Disclaimer. It's a comedy show. We are comedians and we will make jokes. But that doesn't mean that the story isn't 1000% completely real in every detail. Nothing is exaggerated for comedic effect or anything stupid like that. No, no, no. We, we stay on it and what we do is here, there's a lot of jokes to make. That's the thing. Here's what we don't do, though. We don't make jokes about the family or the victim or the victim's family because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But.

[James Petregallo]

But we're not scumbags. See how that works there? Yeah, there's plenty to make fun of. The fact that someone going, I think I can get away with this with zero murder experience. That's a crazy thought right there. And plenty to make fun of. We'll talk about all that and more. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever Go together. We might not be the show for you, but we might be. That's the other thing. You never know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Give it a try.

[James Petregallo]

Give it a try. And no complaining later because you've been warned. That said, I think it's time, everybody, let's go. Let's all sit back, let's clear the lungs here, arms to the sky, and let's all shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay, let's go on a trip, shall we? We're going to Oklahoma here. Middle of the country madness, baby. We are going to Enid, Oklahoma. And we will. We'll explain a little bit more about the town stuff after we get done with the town stuff. But for now, we'll start off Enid, Oklahoma, Northwestern Oklahoma. It's about an hour and a half to downtown Oklahoma City. From Enid, about an hour 45 to Tulsa. So right between a rock and a hard place there. Right between the two, yeah. Tulsa has, I believe, the most terrifying first 48 episodes ever. Every one of them is terrifying. It's about an hour and 20 minutes. Also to sealing Oklahoma, which was our last Oklahoma episode. Episode 535, the Murder Bones mystery. That was a wild episode. This is in Garfield county. Area code 580, the motto for Enid. They have several. Oh, okay. We have the wheat capital of the United States, which, I mean, sure, I'll buy that. You seem like there's probably a lot growing there. The queen wheat city of Oklahoma.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're really leaning on the wheat.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, if you're the capital of the United States, you're obviously the queen wheat city of your state. And then I don't even know what this is. The purple martin. Capital of Oklahoma with the purple martin. Is that a euphemism for hard on? What are we talking? I don't know what that is exactly. I'm not sure. So a little bit of history quickly here. Prior to the land Run of 1893, the land where Enid is was part of O County in the Cherokee Outlet and was occupied by the Cherokee people following the Trail of Tears. This is where.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they're sent here. It was then known as Skeleton. Okay. This place.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm sure that's a reason.

[James Petregallo]

And then in 1889, some guy from the railroad said this. That's a terrible. What is it called? Skeleton. That's crazy. So he renamed the station the railroad station Enid, after a character in Alfred, Lord Tennyson's Idols of the King. As we, you know, we all Know that. Obviously Very well aware. I don't know. So that is how it happened. But there's actually a different story of how the town got his name. That's more fun, actually, than that. And Dumber one is about, like, some literary thing, a classic. And then this is this. According to this tale, in the days following the land run, some settlers decided to set up chuck wagons and cook for people that were coming by little roadside. First roadside diners type of thing. And they would hang. They hung a sign that said. Yeah. First food trucks. They hung a sign that said dine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I was just gonna say this is backwards.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. What? And they said some of the people turned the sign backwards and then it read Enid. And that's the name stuck. But that's not true. But they find that to be a better origin story than a literary reference. They're like, I like that better. Okay. Review books and stuff. Never mind that. Here is five reviews of this town since we've never been here. We don't know anything about it. Five. Here's five stars. Like I have said before, where this is. You're in public now. Like, I've told my family for years. Great.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A lot of hillbillies like to start sentences like I say or like I said, like my grandmother did before. It's like, baby, you didn't say this yet.

[James Petregallo]

This is the first time. But she has Alzheimer's. Though your grandmother might have actually thought she did say it. Or she might have said it in 1968 and think that was five minutes ago. We don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Or five minutes ago, she thought it and didn't say it out loud.

[James Petregallo]

That's the other thing. Yeah. Yeah. She's. Cut her some slack, Jimmy. Like I have said before, this experience is amazing, but it is kind of off. Kind off small. So I think they mean of small. It's kind of a small town. Here's four stars. Enid is very boring. But I like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

I like the boring. I've lived here for about three years, and it's fine for me. I have no problem with Enid being boring. Unlike all my friends. Nothing bad here happens. A low crime rate here in Enid. We'll be the judge of that. We have stats. There only was one big issue that has happened in Enid, but again, nothing happened. The issue was threats made. The Enid High School, which I go to, and nothing happened. When this threat was made, the police were on it. They covered the whole school in secret, of course, but you could tell, I got to admit Nothing happens at all. Not even crime. So it's a little boring. All right, here's one star.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure would appreciate my neighbor's head getting sawed off just for some.

[James Petregallo]

Just give me some action. Yeah, give me some goddamn action in this joint. Like a four. Like a drug gang maybe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Missing kid for a couple hours.

[James Petregallo]

Anything big like a North Hollywood bank robbery type of deal. One of those, you know, Give me something like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

If I find the kid tomorrow, I'm fine with it.

[James Petregallo]

That's okay. One star. The city of Enid as a whole is one of the most boring cities I've ever lived in. This person doesn't like the boring, apparently. It's like the city doesn't want to build anything that will attract out of town tourists. Yeah, yeah. There is the Stride Center. Oh, yay. You all won't pay for good entertainment. I guess they have a venue where people can come, but they don't draw there, apparently. Yeah, we don't get suggested. Do you guys want to go to Enid on your next tour ever? That never comes up. City of Enid officials don't do what the residents that elect them claim, that elect them to do. They do what they want to do and at their own pace. If you want to open a business, the paperwork will be held back and you won't be able to. I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. That's crazy. So, yeah, you want boring, like retirement style boring. Come to Enid. Actually. Want to be able to enjoy your days off with the family and drive downtown, plus hours. Then, well, you make the decision. I don't know what you're talking about. And then finally, one star. Maybe the greatest review of anything I've ever heard. This is for a whole town, mind you, there is one taxi that is very sleazy looking. One star, whole town, one shitty taxi. The whole town's ruined. People of this town, 52,129. So it's a decent sized place. It's a small town, but it's a big, small city. You know, a few more males than females, which is odd. Maybe that has to do with farming and oil stuff. Possibly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is also a tornado alley fucking place. I haven't heard of it for 20.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, it is. Yeah. Every time I've driven through Oklahoma, I've been in some sort of tornado warning. Every single time I've done it. It's crazy. We had to stay there one time and like the lady at the hotel was like, oh, yeah, there's A tornado warning. So keep an eye on that. You know, go in the bathtub. And we're like, what? And she's just like, yeah. Kasa comes through. Like, is it going to come through? She's like, you never know. Okay, great. Sounds good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Grab a bottle of wine and draw bath.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Just hang out in the bathtub. Median age 34.9. 48% married here. 18% are single with children. So less married than average. Few more single with children than average. Race here, 72.8% white, 3.5% black, 0.8% Asian, 13.5% Hispanic, 3.3% Hawaiian, Pacific Islander, which is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

As high as I've seen in any place other than Hawaii and California or Alaska. Really?

[Jimmy Wissman]

So Pacific islands.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's. That's a lot. I don't know if there's a community.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here that maybe natives are just clicking that one because the natives aren't options or something.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. Like, I know in Utah there's a big like Samoan population there. So I don't know if there's like, you know, if all half of Fiji has come to Enid. I'm not sure, you know, who the hell knows religious here? They're pretty religious. 58.7% of the people here are religious. And the biggest one is 17.6% Baptist. As we know, the Baptists are the Catholics of the wheat fields. Obviously. Now we found out here, since the Northeast is all Catholic and otherwise there, the unemployment rate here is 3.7, which is below the national average. It's very low, really low, 3.7. The median household income here is $57,772 a year, which is less than the national average is about 69,000.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But everything's so fucking cheap.

[James Petregallo]

And that's the thing. The cost of living here is low. 100 is regular average in the United States. Here it's 72. So way low. Housing is the cheapest of everything. Yeah, Median home cost here, $126,400.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

That's extremely inexpensive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So that's unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

If you want to be bored, we have for you the Enid, Oklahoma real estate report. Okay. Average two bedroom rental goes for about 940 bucks, which is about $300 less than the national average. 350. Here's house number one. Three bedroom, one bath, 1578 square feet. And the listing is as such. This is the entire real estate listing. Okay? Quote, this home had a fire. H A D E Sells as Is. And it looks believable. It's all burnt and like charred like on the outside. You see where fire came and like lick the fucking walls from the inside. It's crazy. There's no interior pictures. Looks like it's going to fall down any minute now. Three bedroom, one bath, 1578 square feet of fire damage. $29,900 for that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, you're buying the property and the footprint because you're just going to scrape it.

[James Petregallo]

You have to knock the house down. There's no way to fix this. Here's a four bedroom, three bath, 2339 square feet. It looks like it's like that weird. You know that Arizona, like Santa Fe style with like the. The archway. Yeah, that's what it is. It's weird. It's way too southwesty for. I know Oklahoma is sometimes considered the southwest, but this is like straight New Mexico, Arizona type shit here. It's really weird. Four bedroom, three bath, 2339 square feet. It's $299,900.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's for almost 3,000 square feet.

[James Petregallo]

That's not bad. Not a lot of land, though. It's a small lot. Then here's a 3 bedroom, 4 bath T bowl for each and every b hole. And one leftover. 3,995 square feet. This is on 21.7 acres. Big lot. Yeah. The Zillow listing says living space as a highlight, which, yes, it is. They say it's a thoughtfully designed living space. Upon entry, you'll be greeted by a stunning wood cathedral ceiling that leads into a large living room with captivating views of the gas fireplace and outdoor area. It's nice, but it's not $1.5 million, which is what it costs. It's not that nice. 21.7 acres.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, that'll do it.

[James Petregallo]

That's what it is. But it's still of, you know, kind of flat. What are you talking. What are you going to do out there? You know what I mean? Honestly?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Things to do here. All right, we have Simpsons old time museum. This is not an old time museum about the Simpsons either, which is what I thought. I got excited.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's 30 years of that. We can watch it.

[James Petregallo]

You could have it now. So they say visit Simpsons old time museum and Skeleton creek productions movie studio and step back into the old west. So it's like old Tucson, basically. Same shit with. You know, there are a lot of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Movies filmed in this area.

[James Petregallo]

Not that I know of. I don't know. I mean, maybe I Have no idea. But you never heard about it. Hop along. Cassidy memorabilia, baseball collectibles, train sets, and a wide range of military items from the cavalry days through World War II. So just any old shit they can find, they throw in there. That's all cool stuff. But they usually have their own museums. They just. Here it all is in one thing here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, if you got a little bit of each, a hodgepodge, then just slam it together and that makes a museum.

[James Petregallo]

Now we got a museum. They say they have their own indoor movie sets. That was one of our. Having their own indoor movie sets was always one of the goals of our production company. With this in mind and having space to build, we began our first movie set in 2003. Since that year, we've increased the number of our sets and now have. How many do you think?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Seven?

[James Petregallo]

Several. They don't even say. Listen to honky tonk piano music and sip an ice cold sarsaparilla in the 1880s saloon. Okay. If you get too rowdy, you might get taken to the marshal's office and thrown in our 1880s jail. Visit our 1880s hotel lobby, complete with stairway, and see our hotel hallway and authentic hotel room. It's just old time stuff here. Surrounding. Oh, what is this? Oh, in the center of the museum is an authentic chuck wagon, complete with a campfire and a cook.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We're very jealous of Dodge City.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we really. We really are. Crime rate in this area, what we are interested in here, obviously property Crime is about 50% higher than the national average. Shit is going down in Enid, man. Boring, my ass. This place is hopping. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is exactly average.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

Exactly the national average. So I don't know what's going on in this town, making people so angry or upset or whatever it is, but there's some shit popping off here that said, damn it, let's talk about some murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Let's do it.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, now, first of all, I have to say something here. This murder technically takes place within the boundaries of Oklahoma City. Okay? Now, the people are from Enid. They moved to Oklahoma City. Now, we did not realize. Team Small Town Murder did not realize that this took place because when you hear it and you see the pictures, it's in this neighborhood. That's. It's not like downtown Oklahoma City. It's out in the burbs and it's, you know, it looks very small townish. And then the people and the story, it sounds. It's our. It's our show. It's small town murder. So it actually technically takes place in Oklahoma City.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Damn it.

[James Petregallo]

But the people are from Enid and they're in northwestern Oklahoma City, which is technically on the way to Enid. So if you were almost. If you just go a little further, you're gonna end up in Enid, we'll put it that way. So it's almost Enid, and we apologize for that. But like I said, when you hear the story, you're gonna go, yeah, this is a small town murder all the way, so it's fine. But we apologize about the screw up there. Either way, here we go. It's suburban town murder. Either way, it's. Let's talk about a woman first here, Brenda Evers. Let's talk about E V E R S Evers. She's born on December 10, 1963. She is described in a newspaper article as growing up, quote, in white bread normalcy, living a life so vanilla it was as if she'd stepped right out of a 1950s sitcom. That's Brenda's growing up life. Very.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Lots of dresses with that doily around the neck.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah, that doily. And just a lot of, like going down to the soda shop.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, she's at the soda shop drinking.

[James Petregallo]

A soda, making, like food for all of the men in the house. You know what I mean? Make your brother some food. Oh, okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fix your brother a sandwich.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she was raised in Enid. See, there's Enid in a very conservative, very Christian household. Very Christian. Ish. And the family would do a big prayer before they ate and all that. Just kind of your standard middle of the country kind of Bible belt type of shit here. Big home cooked meals and all that kind of thing. One of her best friends from back in the day said she was just a typical sort of small town girl. I mean, she was nothing out of the ordinary. That's what they say about her. Her family now, the Evers family. The one neighbor said, I remember them being really quiet. The whole family was. They weren't very outspoken or anything. These are a stoic, quiet people here. They said that a lot of that they thought might have been caution. You know what I mean? Just. That's just how they were, I guess. Her sister Kim said that she and Brenda learned to be very private growing up because they have a severely mentally disabled brother. And in the 60s, you basically hid that person in the attic like there was no, you know, people were a lot less likely to be, you know, just proud of their kids no matter what they are. And it was considered there must be something wrong with you or. Yeah, I don't know, God cursed you or whatever it is. There was a real kind of a, just a stigma with that for a long time. So it is. And they said that. But she said it actually, Kim said it actually helped them become stronger. Having a brother that had problems. She said, because of my brother we've both been, been very strong individuals. Very careful and very guarded though. So a lot of private type of thing. One of her friends said she loved hanging out with Brenda and thought her parents were really nice and she had a lot of respect for them. She said about Brenda's family, they were a lot like my family. So, you know, that's made me feel comfortable. In the seventh grade, Brenda enrolled in baton classing classes at Enid Twirling Academy. A whole academy just for twirling, 52,000 people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We got a twirling academy.

[James Petregallo]

And this is in like 1970, so there's probably a shitload. I bet there was 15,000 people back then. They still had a twirling academy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Useless ass academy.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. There was eight to 10 other girls her age at 6pm every Wednesday. So they found 10 girls Wednesday to do this. Her instructor said for her to take baton twirling in junior high, that's kind of a wholesome sport. She was from a very wholesome family. But these. Belva Lamb, her senior twirling coach said that she was quote, an average baton twirler at best.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Everything about her right up the middle.

[James Petregallo]

Imagine no matter what you did, if 35, 40 years later they're like, you know, he really sucked at that when he was 8. Couldn't hit a T ball for shit when he was 7, I'll tell you that right now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I still remember that. Dumb bastard.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he wasn't very good. He just this kind of a non achieving, just a real right at the middle.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Useless fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Kind of a loser he was, I'm not gonna lie. I mean I could tell. I looked at the 8 year old and they said, the kid's a loser. He's never gonna get any better.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'll take his parents money for the lessons for this shit. He's never gonna learn.

[James Petregallo]

I'm sure there's somebody who's got that quote locked and loaded for me. I'm sure. But she's really good at schoolwork and she's very nice to her friends. She gets good grades. One of her friends said she was one of our little group of students who all got straight A'S she played the trumpet and twirled for the band. She didn't talk about boys very much. Yeah, just real. I mean, this is like she's frustrated. She can't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Can't fucking figure out this trumpet or that fucking baton.

[James Petregallo]

But she's going to high school in, like, the 70s, though. This is like, you know, Dazed and Confused times. And she's acting. This is like she's in the 40s, you know what I mean? It's like totally different. Disconnect. So Brenda was. Not that she should be out, like, sucking dick and doing drugs. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe there's a different lifestyle going on. I mean, this is post Woodstock, for Christ's sake. You know, it's just a different deal. Her friend said she was interested in school, studying, going to church and helping others. She was always the first one to offer to help. She's also really good in home EC class. Cooking and sewing. Yeah, Are especially her specialties here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Iron's like a bastard. Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you never know anything about that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Heats an iron like nobody's business.

[James Petregallo]

Can't twirl a baton, even. Even iron. Just even. No wrinkles, no burn marks. Oh, forget about it. A layer cake, like a queen. So the problem is none of this. She's not good socially, really. She has friends, but it's like her little group of, like, smart kid friends and that's that. Some people considered her kind of an oddball. One of her classmates named Brad said there wasn't much associating with her. She was so quiet and shy. She went to the football games, of course, but she never went out to the parties with us afterwards. Yeah, she'd go home once the game was over. He then said she never drank or smoked or anything like that. She was always real meticulous in how she dressed. Real conservative. She always buttoned her clothes all the way up, all the way up, all the way up to the neck, baby. That's it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not a single button undone.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you cover your collarbones. No one wants to see that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The one at the bottom, to make it easier to sit.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no, no, no. Safe. Some. No, you can't. If you. If you have any room open, then the Satan can get right in there. That's how it works. The devil just jumps right in. Yeah. Once he's in there, you want to lock them all up. Make sure he stays. So in 1982, she's a senior in high school and she's starting to Be less shy when she gets a senior in high school. Here she began dating a man here, or a young man, I should say. He's a year older than her, so not like anything untowards going on. She began dating a man named Rob Andrew who was about almost two years older than her. He studied advertising at osu, so he went to Oklahoma State. Little cowboy there, that's the college. And he's just rooting for Barry Sanders like you wouldn't believe. So Brenda met Rob at the swimming pool during summertime is what Brenda's sister Kim said. So he got to see everything on display. I mean, granted she was wearing a full wetsuit buttoned up to the top. I mean, it was. She was real buttoned up, but still. Yeah, she had one of those like 1910s, down to the knees outfits on. But she said, like Brenda, Rob came from a tight knit religious family as well, so same thing her sister said. I think their values were pretty much the same. Even though he was Baptist and she was Lutheran and their religious beliefs, they were a lot alike. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Being a non religious person, it's all the same. I mean, I get that if you're in whatever sect it is, you'll notice this tiny differences, but from the outside you're all praying in the same place, so it seems similar. And like I said, that's just my ignorance of the matter, but still. But in their religious beliefs, they're a lot alike, which you'd imagine. So. So Brenda graduates from high school and she's dating Rob Andrew here. Robert is his full name. And his younger brother, I guess, used to frequent the same pool as Brenda, and that's how she met him. This is Rob's brother Tom. Said she always asked me about him. I went back and told him, quote, this chick at the pool's been asking about you. That's how they met. Hey, there's a. There's a little hot piece of number here at the pool. I mean, hot piece of number. That piece of number, you get three or four of those layers. She's wearing off. I think she's got something going on under there, you know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's a real hot piece of number, I'll tell you.

[James Petregallo]

Hot piece of number. She's a God. I'm an idiot. So, hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit about our safest sponsors. Simplisafe. And everyone has routines that you go through, make you feel good, make you feel secure, like you have control over the world. And a lot of times you don't. But you do. If you're us and it's on, your routine includes arming your SimpliSafe home security system. You know that's gonna do well for you. So when we're heading out, both of us, we both have them in our houses, our studios. You lock up for the night. Yeah. This simple step does more than just protect you. Gives you peace of mind. You're going to feel good about leaving, and then you're going to know it's going to be the same when you get back. You'll sleep more soundly. I can leave the house with confidence. And it's amazing how a push of a button can give you that kind of confidence. And with Simplisafe, we love it. Like I said, it's in our studios, in our homes. It's really easy to install, too. You can get professional installation also. But if we can put it up, you can put it up. Put it that way. Visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com/s I m p l I safe.com small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about Chime. Life is full of extra fees. Boy, oh, boy, they're everywhere. Everything you buy, there's fees. Every buy a concert ticket or an airline ticket or anything like that. Fees, fees, fees, games, you name it. We're trying to make progress in life and we're trying to go forward. And then these fees hit you and you go backwards. You need Chime. Chime is a checking account that makes financial progress easier. You can move forward with this with features like no maintenance fees, fee free overdraft up to $200, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Can't be that. You can learn [e-mail] Smalltown Murder this Chime is great stuff. You always need a little help. Somebody's. You're always coming up a little short. Every once in a while, it happens to people. Unexpected things come up. Not only fees that Chime won't charge you, but you never know. You blow a tire out, your car breaks down. You never know when you need a few extra bucks and you might need it early. Make progress toward a better financial future with Chime. Open your account in two minutes at chime that's chime.com. smalltown Murder Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp NA or Stride Bank NA members, fdic, Spot Me Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Booths are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Timing depends on submission of payment file fees apply at out of network ATMs. Oh, man. So he said, this is another friend said, I'm not surprised he fell for Brenda. She was so kind and sweet and so soft spoken. But he was a catch. Yeah, that's the brother talking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's getting a good one.

[James Petregallo]

My brother's a real catch. Boy, I'll tell you something, you should see the bulge in those Speedos, boy. That's gonna attract all the ladies. So after Brenda graduates, she spends a year at Lutheran College in Winfield, Kansas. She is Lutheran, I guess. Holy shit. Before moving over to OSU to be closer to Rob. So that's what she wanted to do. And June 2, 1984, Brenda and Rob get married. Wow, look at Brenda getting married now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She did it.

[James Petregallo]

She fished herself a good one and they get married. What church are they getting married in?

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the Lutheran or what are they gonna do?

[James Petregallo]

The Redeemer Lutheran Church in Enid. So he said, listen, whoever's got more buttons wins. I can't compete with her. She's buttoned. Wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He really, really loves her. He's doing everything for her.

[James Petregallo]

He does. Yeah. They seem to really love each other too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She pursued him and he's just.

[James Petregallo]

He's like, hell yeah, do anything for her. That's great. So they start setting up their life here. They lived and worked in Oklahoma City, then they relocated to South Texas where Rob got a job down there. Rob went to school for advertising and he gets a job in advertising. And later on he'll be an advertising executive and make six figure salary back and do pretty well for himself here. So Brenda stayed behind in Oklahoma as he settled in. And then she quit her bank job in Oklahoma and followed him down there. So she found Houston or what? I think it's outside of Houston, I believe. So she found work at a bank down there and made some friends and all that kind of shit. And they settled in and became part of the fabric of the community, wherever they were. Now. Rob apparently was less religious at one point than he became or he had like a lapse in it or something here because, yeah, one of his friends said that quote, I knew he was a Christian because we had covered that ground early on. But I also knew that he lived on that ragged edge and he liked to party.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is how he described to his friend how he was going to change his partying ways. Okay. He went to his friend and he said, on this day, this is his friend quoted here. Rob wanted me to know that things were different. He held up a Susan B. Anthony silver dollar and asked, do you know the story of the Susan B. Anthony silver dollar? And he said. I replied, of course I've seen them and have passed many through my hands. And he said, Rob said, no, no, that's not what I mean.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I didn't say, do you know that they exist?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I know. Yeah. He said, do you know why they stopped making them? Which he really should have started out with that. Be specific. The story of the dollar is. That's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That sounds like the origin, you fuck.

[James Petregallo]

That's vague. Yeah, that's vague. So the guy said, no, not really, but I'm sure you're gonna tell me about it. You know, let's go after it, you fuck. So Rob said, look at this one. He held it in full view, then reached in his pocket and pulled out a quarter and said, see? See how closely the quarter and the dollar are in size and appearance? Which is true. This guy said. I examined them with astonishment. Yeah, they are pretty close. He never noticed this before. He's had them in his hand, but never noticed. That's about the size of a quarter.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I know all about them.

[James Petregallo]

Anything that's that size? Yeah, that's about the size of a quarter. Like, did you notice that? So he said. He explained further. People were always confusing them for quarters. They often passed in change as quarters on accident. By accident. So this guy said. I scratched my chin and looked at him with an expression that said, I suppose there's a point to this. But wait.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Summit mount. What's your point? Any minute now.

[James Petregallo]

Tap, tap, tap, motherfucker. What do we got? So he said, he continued, they were discontinued because they were too much alike and people were giving up dollars for quarters. And he said, the guy goes on to say, then the real reason for Rob's conversation with me was revealed. Rob said, quote, I was a Susan B. Anthony $. He's really making some analogies and doing some metaphor here. People wanted me to attend parties because I always brought the party to life. And a lot of people said he was the life of the party back in high school and in college and shit. Life of the party guy, he said. I told jokes and brought the liquor and to everyone at the party. I was one of the gang. So the guy says now. The look on Rob's face grew grave and tears formed in his eyes. And he said, the guy, Rob said, when I heard the Susan B. Anthony dollar story and why it was canceled, I knew it was me. I'm the dollar that was mistaken for a quarter. I cheapened myself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. He's passed off with the rest of the quarters out there, you know, drinking and having fun in college, doing normal shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He could have just said, I think I'm better than being drunk all the time.

[James Petregallo]

That would have been fine. But you know what? He's got a gift for metaphor, I'll give him that. He really connected this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's confusing the motherfuck out of people.

[James Petregallo]

So he said now with tears running down his cheeks, he said, I knew Christ, but no one knew me. No one who knew me would ever have guessed it. He said I was hiding my love for Jesus. Christianity, yeah, the guy said. Then his face began to glow and he said, quote, I got a roll of Susan B. Anthony dollars and went to every person in my office. This is Rob talking. I placed one on their desk and told them the same story I told you. Then I asked for their forgiveness. They're like, I don't care what you do outside of the office. You got the TPS report or not. I don't give a shit if you drink, you don't drink. Show up on time and no one cares.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Dude, I'm happy for you. Feel better?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, good, Great. You don't need my forgiveness is what I'm saying. Live your life. I don't care. Love, Jesus, don't. I don't know. It doesn't matter to me. Doesn't affect me at all. At work is a weird place to do this. He said I was a Christian in their midst and they had no clue because I was acting like I didn't know Christ.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Did he vomit in their desk or something?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. Unless he came in with like a lampshade on his head and a half drank and bottle of fucking Stoli going.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Balls hanging out the flap of his boxers or something.

[James Petregallo]

I just. I came to shit in the office bathroom. I didn't know it was work time yet. I was. Oof, boy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It wasn't the office bathroom. That was my desk.

[James Petregallo]

It was too stinky from my house is all. Unless he's doing that, like, who cares? Yeah, no one at work cares what you're doing. But I mean, for him, though, this was A big, just transformative event. So I've been good for him, you know, everybody finds their own life, finds himself.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You don't have to make a fucking.

[James Petregallo]

You don't have to involve others is my point. Nobody's shit. Yes. That's if I'm sitting at a attic office. I don't care about this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

At all. I'm like, do you have that tagline for whatever horseshit we're selling for that insurance company? That's all.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unless you're making life miserable at the office because you're drunk.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're coming in, just telling everybody, I'm not gonna do it anymore.

[James Petregallo]

Sloshed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Congratulations on not getting fired about it.

[James Petregallo]

Right. But I mean, but it shows a. Rob is definitely a thoughtful person and he thinks that he's done something to people and he's a nice guy. That's all there is to it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So by 8, 1988, Rob is ready to come back to Oklahoma. He's had it with Texas. Brenda not quite ready to go. She likes it down there. She's made a lot of friends. She's having a good time. She doesn't want to go. So they would fight repeatedly about moving. And Rob got a new job in Oklahoma City at Jordan Associates, where he's an ad executive and makes really good fucking money. So he wants to go there. And he returned alone, leaving his wife behind for a few months. He's like, well, I gotta take this job and I'm going back. Eventually, Brenda hooks back up with him in Oklahoma and returned to her old job that she had before they moved to Texas. She made friends with the wife of a man named Rick Nunley. We'll talk about later on, as early as about 19, February 1988. So they've been married about four years. Rob seeks marital counseling from a pastor at that point because they fought about the move. And he moved back by himself and trying to get her to come with. And they don't have any kids yet or anything, so it's, you know, it's tough. So he wants to. He talks to the pastor and tries to get some counseling going on. I guess it works because she moves back there. And then on December 23, 1990, they have a daughter.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, here we go.

[James Petregallo]

And her name is Trisity, spelled Tri City.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why?

[James Petregallo]

There's a reason why here. Okay. There is an absolute reason why. One story said, quote, no one. This is hilarious. This was from the Oklahoman, Oklahoma newspaper. No one would have described Rob Andrew as crazy. Although he did do fun things. This is from someone from work. Like bringing slushes to everyone at work. Because he decided July 11th should be 711 day. He didn't decide that. Is that they do that and they give away slushies. It's a thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They were free guys. He didn't pay for these.

[James Petregallo]

Or like naming his daughter Tricity because if she ever ran for public office, her slogan could be, what? What electricity?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, I'm gonna. I gotta go. Oh, man, I hate it so much.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Don't name your kid like a pun or wordplay. Please. Just give your kid a normal name in the hopes that maybe she does otherwise. If I saw that name, if I went to school with a girl that was named Tricity, I would call her Tri City all the time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just call her T Bone.

[James Petregallo]

T Bone. So Tricity is born. I quit, dude. How else? That's what I said is this. I found this in two sources. And when. It's got to be real. That's all there is to it. This is crazy. So the couple's first child, Tricity, she's born and they decide that Brenda should stay home and take care of the kids and be a stay at home mom now. And her sister Kim said she really, really enjoyed working in the bank. But when they started having children, being a mom and being there to raise her kids became top priority. Fine. And they can afford to do that too, because he makes really good money. So they can afford to do this. It's a nice luxury to have the option to have if you want, you know, to have one person be able to stay home so you don't have to send your kid with strangers or force your parents to do it or some shit. So September 27, 1994 comes around and they have a son named Parker.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, they're doing well. And Brenda, through all of this, she's embracing kind of the stay at home mom lifestyle with this. She becomes. She gets. Stays really busy. That's the thing. She becomes a girl scout leader with Tricity. She becomes one of the homeroom moms at school and then also a Sunday school teacher as well at the church. So yeah, so I mean, she's doing a lot. She keeps herself real active and very involved in the kids lives. Obviously good mom and everybody says very doting mother. She's known as a kind and considerate neighbor. One of the neighbors here had Alzheimer's and was not doing very well. So she was described and she would help out, she would go over and do Things for this neighbor to help him out, which is nice. Not every neighbor. It's not a family member.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

You know, she was described by a former boss as a good employee when her husband allowed her to work. Which is an odd way to put it. Yeah, it's. No. And also, it doesn't strike me as Brenda is the. She's the stronger personality in the marriage.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. She's the one that was assertive enough to go get him.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So she. To me, like, just from everything I've heard, from what everybody's described, if Brenda wants to work, Brenda's gonna work, period. Or if Brenda doesn't want to work, she's not gonna work, but she's gonna do what she wants to do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And the only way Brenda's not gonna work is if we have enough money for me to be the old fashioned stay at home mother that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wants to be.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And she wants to do all the volunteering stuff. And she likes that. I mean, it keeps her. She likes to do things and stay busy, which is totally understandable. And I think she found ways to fill that with the other stuff here. Brenda's cousin said that she was the glue that held her family together after their father died. So, I mean, it's. You know, she's. She's done it here. Brenda helped raise and care for her brother till she moved for school, that she would help raise her mentally disabled brother as well. So, I mean, everybody says she's just a super sweet person and very helpful and type of person you can depend on. Now after she has the second kid, though, she starts to be a little bit wilder, starting to come into her own a little bit. And she's. She's like 30, 32 here. So, I mean, time to have fun. Yeah. And it takes a while to figure out who you are. Some people figure it out earlier than others.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

But nobody figures it out when they're 23.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No. And you respond, being a responsible person doesn't really start until your 30s. And your 30s are your 20s with money. So you're responsible enough to understand that you don't. Yeah. Fingers crossed. Yeah. Yeah. Your 20s are just pissing away all your money because you don't have any.

[James Petregallo]

You don't have it. No.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And that's what it takes to survive.

[James Petregallo]

It's got to be weird like when people get famous when they're like 23, because they kind of have to stay that forever now. Because that's what everybody expects of you when as you are not a fully developed person yet. Really you don't know who you are. That's why. That's what's the weird part. You know, the best comedians are usually in their 40s and 50s. Because I have never seen, outside of, like, Eddie Murphy, you know what I mean? I've never. And that's a once in a fucking lifetime talent. Outside of that, I've never seen someone who's 22 be funny. They can be funny for a joke, but for an hour, they have nothing to say because nothing's happened to them yet. And it's not an insult. It's just.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And Eddie said that Chappelle, by the way, was pretty funny early. Chappelle was terrific.

[James Petregallo]

He was great when he was 16, too. But Eddie Murphy said all I would talk about was taking a shit when I was younger, because that's all I had done that was in his act. What does that chunk want?

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he did it as somebody else.

[James Petregallo]

As Richard Pryor, which is hilarious. So Brenda gets wild here a little bit. Rob and Brenda start to grow apart a little bit here. The guy who is the president of a headhunting and consulting firm who worked with Rob on hiring for the ad agency, said that he met Brenda for the first time. And he and his wife had arrived at the restaurant. They're all going out to dinner together. They arrived first and were waiting in the bar area when Rob and Brenda showed up. The comment that was made, this is a quote from this guy. Quote. The comment that was made was, who's the hoochie? Oh, boy, the hoochie. Her dress was very tight, very short, with a lot of cleavage exposed. She's going out to an adult dinner. Who cares? She's not going to a Girl Scout meeting like that. Who gives a shit what she does? So I would like to know who said, who's the hoochie? The comment that was made, did you make it? Or your wife? I would like to know that, too. So he said that he pictured Rob, who was openly religious at work, being with someone who was way more buttoned up than this. Brenda's got her buttons open now. Yeah, she's already had a baby. Tupac wrote a song about it. Yeah, we're doing that. So 1997 comes along here. And remember Rick Nunneley, who we said. Yeah, his wife works with Brenda or worked with Brenda at the bank. Well, Rick Nunneley's an Oklahoma City reservoir engineer. Oh, I guess you have to. You have to. You'd have to engineer a reservoir. You can't just say, fill it with water. That Looks like a good enough hole. You gotta do some math job.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's not a lot of those being made today, right?

[James Petregallo]

Pretty much all made, yeah. I think the engineer probably works on the maintenance of it too. And make sure like, you know, does the math of make sure it doesn't overflow. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck they do. Run dry something. So yeah, he met Brenda when she worked with his wife, or at the time his wife at the time later to be ex wife, at the bank. The two couples, Rob and Brenda and Rick Nunley and his wife were friends for about 10 years at this point. They met in like 87. So at this point, they've known each other for 10 years. By 1997, here, Brenda starts having an affair with Rick Nunley.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Brenda.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, this is family friends. Rick isn't divorced from his wife yet. This is their. This is two intact couples. And the two partners here are going to go after each other.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ruining Pictionary night.

[James Petregallo]

Oh. Destroying Trivial Pursuit night. Destroying it. Destroying Trivial Pursuit. Psalm edition. Is there one of those?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Probably.

[James Petregallo]

It should be if there isn't, because I bet it would sell. So this continued and goes on and on and on for a while. And other people started to notice it too. This goes on for over a year, this affair. This isn't one and done. Well, I mean, I mean it's being.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hidden, but people are like, well, pretty fucking friendly with each other a little bit.

[James Petregallo]

Jennifer Jones, who was a college student at the time and a nanny back then, she babysat for Brenda and recalled two occasions when she sensed something odd was going on. She testified that once Brenda told her that I'm gonna go get groceries and she left wearing a tight leather skirt and top to go to the grocery store.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She didn't come back with groceries.

[James Petregallo]

Well, when she returned, she had no groceries and wasn't wearing her wedding ring.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And her hair's a mess.

[James Petregallo]

Well, that's actually the next line, as she said. And her hair was amiss.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Incredibly disheveled.

[James Petregallo]

She came back with disheveled hair. No groceries and minus a wedding ring. I mean, she might as well have a hand mark on her ass. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why don't you just carry your panties in?

[James Petregallo]

Holy. She might as well walked in and said, do you have an extra morning after pill? No. Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Spinning your undies on your fingers.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, like a six shooter.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They were all out of groceries.

[James Petregallo]

Spinning them like a six shooter. But they had plenty of man.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All out of gross sandwich and mayonnaise.

[James Petregallo]

Plenty of man. And Rick Nunneley over here knows Rob really well. They're buddies. They go fishing and shit together. And he's got the. He's screwing his wife. Like, this is pretty bad shit for everybody involved here. It's pretty fucked up. Another time, Brenda left wearing a, quote, provocative dress. And Jennifer Jones said, I felt like something was going on and I did not want to be a part of it. I don't want to be here just to help this lady cover up her affairs. Which, that's fine.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the least Jenny Jones you've done. Jenny Jones, she's always involved. She wants to know everything.

[James Petregallo]

I want to know it all. Tell me. And then. So I held. I staged a fucking. A surprise ambush of Rob to tell him that his friend and his wife are fucking each other. Another guy named Rod Lott, who used to work for Rob at Jordan and Associates, he said that he often accompanied Rob on business trips to Tulsa. And he said that he and Rob once. He asked Rob once why he never told Brenda he loved her when they ended phone calls, don't tell your wife I love you at the end of your call.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, what's up with that?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Lott said, quote, he said he tried to do that when they first got married, but she said it made her feel uncomfortable and told him not to do it. I don't want to tell you I love you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Don't tell me that. It makes me feel guilty about this cock in my head.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Makes me feel real weird. Oh, man. So he also said this friend said, quote, they hadn't had sex in years. He would come home and see lingerie that was bought, and he'd get his hopes up, and he'd get his feelings hurt in the end. Where's the lingerie going? If you come home and you see there's all this sexy underwear and it never. Oh, my God, it's never on. Or you'd be like, what the fuck is happening here?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I saw it. Why didn't it materialize?

[James Petregallo]

Hey, why don't you put that one thing on? Oh, I left it at. I mean.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

Good God. So that affair ends in about 1997 or 98. I'm sorry. Started in 97, ends about mid 98. Then in 2000, she has an affair with the dude who works at the grocery store, James Higgins is his name. And he. I guess he has, like, about a 16 month affair with Brenda as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

He said that Brenda used to come into the store flirting with him and wearing, quote, low cut tops and short skirts. Then one day. This is incredible, by the way. If you work at a grocery store and you're like a young guy, and you see, like, you know, like, these housewives coming in, and some of them are like, you know, sexy, and you're like, man, one of them's gonna. Has to hook up with me one of these days. It's some weird, you know, teenage fantasy, strange, ridiculous idea.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Well, quote, one day she brought him a motel key and handed it to him and winked. And that was that. It was on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nobody has ever.

[James Petregallo]

Ever. That's some shit that happened to, like, Frank Sinatra in 1958. Like, some women after a Vegas show would throw them in a hotel key. This is crazy. Can you imagine, while you're stocking the Fruit Loops, this lady's like, here you go. Wow. Yeah. She gave him a key to a motel room. They met that afternoon at the motel room. And then these type of meetings occurred several times a week during those two years. This wasn't like once in a while. This was like every day. They also had sex at the. At her home, you know, the family home and in the car as well. You know, sometimes. Sometimes you just can't get a location. You just got to throw down in the front seat. What do you want?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Subaru's open.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Front seat wide open. Goes all the way back.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So all during this time, Brenda kept telling James Higgins how much she hated her husband. She also told him that she wished Rob was dead. Now, if you're this Higgins guy, you're going anyway, like, you're not in this for all this seriousness, so you're gonna swallow that. Wow. So that's amazing. So the affair continues. She ends up breaking things off with him in about May of 2001. But the problem is she broke up with him because there's somebody else and it's not her husband. We'll talk about that. But there's other Brenda. Things that people say about Brenda in the neighborhood. And I'm gonna say, first off, this is a very, like, conservative religious area, and people expect a different. I don't know. I don't know. They're a little judgier in terms of sexuality, in terms of just having any sexuality at all here at the time, but it's still like the year 2000 in the United States of America. So it's really weird to be like, ah, look at her with her skirt on. Who cares?

[Jimmy Wissman]

And in Tucson. In Tucson, what, in 2000?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's not. It's not out of bounds for a Woman to be free with her sexuality. I mean, married and free with the sexuality is a bit much.

[James Petregallo]

But married and fucking people from the grocery store is one thing, but going out in a skirt is a completely different. Who cares? That's not an issue.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very normal.

[James Petregallo]

Non issue. But here's some stuff that happened here. There were neighborhood boys that were doing some work on the Andrew family deck. I guess they were painting it or doing something. They came home and told their mother that Brenda had come on to them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

These were like.

[James Petregallo]

These were like 15 year olds. Yeah, like she came out being all fucking, you know, whatever. I don't know. Who wants some lemonade type of shit here? It's like. That's what I mean. This is a. This is a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Usually stars, Lisa Ann and a bunch of pool boys.

[James Petregallo]

Usually movers. Yeah, the movers are a bit. Or pizza. Or pizza delivery. Which is the most unrealistic one because he's got other orders he needs to go deliver.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So also, why are the three guys delivering one pizza? Seems inefficient.

[James Petregallo]

Someone's getting cold wings is what I'm saying.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In the end, a lot of evil.

[James Petregallo]

She's been here for an hour. Although when I was a teenager, I delivered pizza at one time. I delivered to this motel in Fishkill. And this lady opened the door. She was like probably 45 or whatever. I was like 17. She opened the door just nude. And I just not. I wasn't into it because she was like older than my mom. So I was just like, that'll be $14. And like I was pretended like she wasn't naked. It was the weirdest thing ever.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jam it through the pizza box, James.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, I brought you pizza. For you. What do you say?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Extra sausage.

[James Petregallo]

It's extra, so yellow. Would you want Italian sausage on that? I got you covered, honey. So she also told a friend of hers that she liked having workmen at her house and use them to babysit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Watch.

[James Petregallo]

Watch my kids for a minute. I'm gonna go hook up with the guy from the grocery store the least.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Like roofers and shit. Yeah, that's what you want.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He does that because he's getting paid under the table because he's a felon lady.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Apparently at one point she heard that a guy she knew liked redhead, so she dyed her hair red and told her friend about it. And then at another time. This is non sexual completely. During an argument with a plumber, she threatened to kill him, which I don't think a lot of plumbers get death threats. From housewives. So she's like, this is wild. So anyway, she breaks up with the grocery store guy, James Higgins, to find another James, a guy named James Pavitt, or Pavat, however you want to fucking say it. James. He's born in 1952, so he's about 11 years older than her. Yeah, he's an insurance broker at Prudential. He works for. They describe. He's described in a newspaper as an Arkansas native. Pavat had the aw, shucks grin of a schoolboy and a face that would look at home in a bluegrass festival. He seems as harmless as dry wheat toast and about as memorable. This is hilarious, hideous, and boring. The preacher at the church he attended every week said that he remembered Pavitt existing, but couldn't really recall anything he ever said. That's how nondescript you are.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It feels like he probably breathed in my church.

[James Petregallo]

Like, I know he's been around, but, like, you know what I'm saying? I don't know anything he's ever said at any point in time. So that's interesting. Now, he was in the air force for a while, and he was, I guess, a police officer in the air force, like an MP there. And he was at tinker air force base for a while in the 80s. He tells everybody he was in the special forces and killed a bunch of people, but his military records don't mention any of that, so. Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about some delicious stuff here. Herobred. Oh, get in there and get this stuff because it is delicious. And the hero bread is great because it's a healthier alternative to all. A healthier bagel and a healthier Hawaiian roll, which. God, those are so good. They're Hawaiian rolls. Oh, those are good, too. The tortillas. The Hawaiian rolls. There's so much. So you don't have to give up goodness and taste just to live a little bit healthier. You can get with hero and do that. Be a hero. The taste and the texture is everything. I'm a bread guy. I'm an Italian. I love bread. And the taste and the texture is really good in this bread. And that is what makes the difference. They have so many things. That's the other thing. The bagels, the tortillas. Like you were saying, the rolls. The bread, the Hawaiian rolls. It's. There's a full. Yeah, get on.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They got it.

[James Petregallo]

Hero brand is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use the code. Small town murder at checkout. That small town Murder at Hero Co.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about life360. It's a new year. Things are going on. You're juggling your family. You got school, things to do and I know you're on school.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You got a new driver in the house.

[James Petregallo]

You have a new driver in the house like Jimmy does here. You're juggling all this stuff you need to get. Life360. It's a location sharing app that works whether you're on iPhone, Android doesn. Life 360 makes coordinating your family's daily routines and activities so much smoother. You open up the app, you can see real time locations for everyone in your family. That takes away all the stress of wondering, where are they? Are they going to be here in 10 minutes? When are they coming?

[Jimmy Wissman]

How fast are they going?

[James Petregallo]

How like you do with your son. You can monitor. That's great. Jimmy's been monitoring his son because he's a new driver. That's what's awesome. It really does. You can coordinate things, you know, and you. Because, I mean, obviously you could text somebody, but you don't want them texting and driving. So this way you can just look at it. It's really awesome. It's amazing how much more coordinated your family can be. Family proof your family with Life360. Visit life360.com or download the app today and use code Small Town murder to get 15% off. That's life360.com code small town murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, everybody, Just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about our stylish and fashionable friends over at Qu Quince. Elevating your style, that used to be a real expensive thing. You want to change your look? It's expensive, but with quints, this is the way you can do it. The right way. You can get high end, versatile pieces at a price that we can all actually afford and actually want to pay. And now I can upgrade my style. Getting nice, real good luxury items and essentials that sync up with what I want and what I want to pay. It's perfect. And Quince has all the must haves, like Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50. Come on, that's ridiculous. Iconic. 100% leather jackets and comfortable pants for every occasion, which I got a leather jacket and Jimmy got comfortable pants. That's exactly what we did. It's great stuff. So you too should do this indulge in affordable luxury. Go to quints.com smalltown murder for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C-E.com smalltownmurder to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com smalltown murder and now back to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The show.

[James Petregallo]

Super Private.

[Jimmy Wissman]

When you're that boring, man, no shit, pastor who literally saves you every week?

[James Petregallo]

No idea.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't remember you.

[James Petregallo]

Anything you ever said, I think I.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Kept him from hellfire.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. Actually, I remember something he talked about. Something to do with Jesus. I'm not sure exactly, but that's. I'm pretty sure that was the thrust of the conversation of what we were getting at there. So other people have said that James told them he had a second or a secret job in which he killed people as well. Who tells people that, first of all? So before he worked For Prudential Life Co. He attended the University of Oklahoma, then enlisted in the Air Force. He's a military police officer from 74 to 95. We're talking career Air Force guy. He served in Korea, Guam, Alaska, Mississippi. He picked up a wife in Korea too. It will talk about. He does. He has a Korean wife. He also did a multi year stint at the Tinker Air Force Base. Records do not indicate that Pavitt saw combat or received any specialized commando training as he claims. In fact, aside from basic training, he attended only three other courses including two academies for non commissioned officers and a supervisory development course. So like, yeah, like administrative shit. Not like, you know, this is how you break a neck. Like Steven Seagal in a movie. Like one hand, neck snap. That's how you do it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Breaking neck. He's not even breaking down the M16, James.

[James Petregallo]

Nothing? No. There's no record that he ever killed anyone either in his military. Shit. Here. Now, Brenda and James, they meet while attending the same church. Now how do they meet? Well, Rob and James, she noticed him. Rob and James are both church deacons. Isn't that nice? And they know each other real well. And then she's, oh, here's my lovely wife. Oh, that's great. And then he's like, I'd like to also have sex with her. Yeah. So the Pavitt and Andrews families socialize together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they ate dinner at each other's houses and all that shit. Rob Andrews, brother, who rode in a truck with James Pavitt for hours on a hunting trip, didn't think he'd ever met this guy. He this is crazy. He never thought he met the guy until later on when he saw them on videotape together, even though he had spent hours in a truck with him on a hunting trip. That's how nondescript he is. You're in a three by three enclosed space with someone for hours and you don't remember them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Forgettable.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. This guy is just forgettable. That is crazy. Even. This is wild. Even James Pavitt's attorney called him a quote, little Poindexter guy. So he doesn't seem like the type of guy where you'd be like, marriage be damned, I need that cock. It's just doesn't seem like that kind of guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But on from his, for his, oh, his vantage point. I can blend into everything. I'll go down on her and she'll.

[James Petregallo]

Forget me and she won't even know I'm down there, for Christ's sake.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She'll forget that I went down there.

[James Petregallo]

He has like 45 kids, but he doesn't pay any child support because none of the women can remember ever having sex with him. It's incredible. It's wild. So Brenda and James started teaching Sunday school classes together. And obviously the mix of the children and the Jesus got them all horned up for each other. If you can't get all sexified when you're teaching Jesus to children, I don't know when you can really. On a Sunday morning. Also, none of these things lend to any sexuality. So they do. They began having a sexual affair at this point. Around this same time, conveniently, Brenda tells Rob he really should get some life insurance, I think. And you should get it through with Prudentials through James, you know, he can hook you up. So Rob ends up with a life insurance policy worth about $800,000, which is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a big one.

[James Petregallo]

That's a pretty decent one. But he makes good money, so I mean, it makes sense. He's making 150 grand a year or something. So it's fucking wild. So anyway, he's got his. James sells him this policy and Brenda is the beneficiary, obviously. Now over the summer, this summer of 2001, after they start hooking up, James divorces his wife.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh really?

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah. He sears her with divorce papers.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Prudential Dork is done.

[James Petregallo]

He's done suck you. Pavett is his wife's name.

[Jimmy Wissman]

S U K. I'd marry her too.

[James Petregallo]

You know, separate name. Hui. Yeah, suck you. I mean, get the fuck out. He met her and he was like, no, no, no, No, I don't want that. She was like, no, that's my name. And he's like, I don't have any money. And she's like, no, you don't get it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yes, ma'am.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, ma'am. So, yeah, she was shocked when her husband brought up a divorce. She said, shocked, sure. I bet. She's like, I've been doing it all. She said that at first, James told her that he wanted a divorce because she didn't get along with his family.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, because all of his brothers.

[James Petregallo]

That's all that matters.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Every time they see her, they just pull their dick out.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, like that's not getting along. So James then said the divorce was for her protection. At that point. Listen, I didn't want to tell you this. It's not about my family. It's actually for your own protection because of problems with his previous duty in the Special Forces. You know, like the Mossad's after him or something. Like he's got some. Yeah, I don't know what's going on, but he's got.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm the dark angel of South Korea.

[James Petregallo]

And they know that's crazy. Suck you said. He said, I know, suk. I'm sure it is, but still, suk you. Sounds like. You're just. Sounds like a Korean version of suck you so fucked. So she said, quote, he said Korea was the only place that was safe in the whole world and sent her to Korea. Go back to Korea. Get out. She said she stayed a short time in Korea before returning to Oklahoma City because he told her that he had made the biggest mistake of his life. Later on. Then she said, when I got back there, she said, I found a different man than I knew before. She said, he wasn't the same Jim I knew for nine years. He was the most kind person while we were married. Something was not right with him. So he switched it up a little bit here. Now, through all of this, Rob is not an idiot. That's the other thing. Rob suspects that his wife and James are having an affair. He just does. I mean, it's gotta be kind of obvious. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Everybody else knows now.

[James Petregallo]

Sukiw said, we'll say it like that. She said that James denied having an affair with Brenda because she confronted him, too. Are you having an affair with the church lady? No, I'm not. Okay. While in South Korea, she said she received divorce papers from James to sign and return, and they were divorced September 6th, and she went back.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They sent her there, telling her to be safe there and Then she came.

[James Petregallo]

Back and then went back to Korea. And then he just mailed her divorce papers. Take these. She said that, yeah, he was just a different guy when she had come back to Oklahoma. She said he was nervous. He wasn't the same person. Yeah, nervous. You're going to catch me plowing Brenda here. She said that. He said that. The other thing is, he said, you have to go back to Korea because I want. I need to protect myself and protect you and suck. You said. He said Rob was accusing him of something. So now she also, his wife also said that they had money problems. About $30,000 in credit card debt. Oh, that's rough. And in 2001, that's even more money.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's deep. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So she. Yeah, she said when she learned about the debt in January 2001, she made arrangements with the credit card companies to make specific monthly payments in an effort to pay off the bills, do a structured. Yeah, they were, I guess, paying $1,500 a month on credit cards, trying to pay it back. Damn, man, that is rough. She said, I had to drop out of school to pay off the credit cards. I asked him if he paid my school off. He said he did, but he didn't for the divorce.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And sent. Yep, sending her back with all her own fucking student debt.

[James Petregallo]

Enjoy, she said. I believed him 100%. He was the most lovable man in the whole world. I still care for him. Well, it's going to be crazy. Then also, she said that James to get her back to Korea, to get her an airline ticket to Korea, since they don't have any money, James borrowed a credit card from Brenda and Rob. So he said, I need money to send my wife back to Korea so we can fuck at my house. And she was like, well, use my Amex. And that was that. So September 19, 2001, Brenda and James are brought into the principal's office there at the North Point Baptist Church because of concerns about their actions. And they are told they are not allowed to teach Sunday school anymore.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, because you're a problem.

[James Petregallo]

You're two married people fucking each other in the. Well, I guess one married person now, but for all intents and purposes, one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Got rid of their spouse to continue this fucking.

[James Petregallo]

It's not good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We know what you're doing then.

[James Petregallo]

That's on September 19th. In the next 10 days or so before the beginning of October, Brenda asks Rob to move out of the house as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

They have a nice house, too. It's like a 6,000 square foot fucking house. It's a nice. It's a big old house, man. It's nice.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Get out. That'd be wonderful.

[James Petregallo]

You could just ignore the person if you don't like them. Stay on the other side. There's three houses in there. It's like 6,400 square feet. That's three decent sized houses. Two big houses. Three nice houses. It's big. So. And he does. He moves out. A next door neighbor recalled seeing James's truck at the residence with increased frequency after that. Then he was stopping by. They said it was very common to see James's truck in the Andrews driveway. Shortly after Brenda had put the kids on the school bus. He pulls right in. Man, that is crazy. James also told, for some reason told his adult daughter Jana, or Yana. J A N nna. Is that Yana?

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's Jana, right?

[James Petregallo]

Jana. Jana. Yeah, it's Oklahoma. It's Jana told his adult daughter Jana that he was having a sexual relationship with Brenda. I bet you can't wait to tell your daughter about your sexual relationships. I have an adult daughter. I would never tell her anything about sex, about me. It's not crazy. She doesn't want to know, and I don't want to tell her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Embrace her if she gets to meet anybody. But I'm not telling her about conquests.

[James Petregallo]

But even if you were with somebody and you wanted her to meet them, you wouldn't be like, I'm having a sexual relationship with her. She just probably assumed that I would assume.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hey, press. This is Tabitha. I go down on her a lot.

[James Petregallo]

I go down on her and no, she's reciprocal. She returns the favor and we have a relationship.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Keep that in mind when I kiss you on the cheek.

[James Petregallo]

So he also told Jana that his plan was to marry Brenda and have a child with her. I'm gonna fucking put one. I'm gonna put one in the oven there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hello, adult child. I'm starting all over again.

[James Petregallo]

Starting all over, even though I've already started all over from your mom. This is the third time. So Brenda continued to talk about to anybody that she could, especially even the grocery store guy, who she's not even having an affair with anymore. About that. She hates Rob. Hates her husband. At one point she told him, I don't know if this is, you know, right outside the fucking Red Baron, frozen pizzas or what, but she told him that she wished Rob would just die so she could get the money and go on with her life.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Anyway. Lemons. Two for one.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So October 1st, 2001. Remember Rick Nunneley? The first affair she had there, Right? Yeah. Okay, well, Brenda and Nunley, for some reason, she keeps in contact with him on the phone all the time. She's always talking on the phone with this guy. It's like a dick in a glass case. In case of emergency, break, break glass. And you got this. So they did that. Nunley met Brenda in downtown Oklahoma City about the 1st of October of October. And Brenda told him that she's going to get a divorce. That's what she said. She's going to get a divorce. Rob moved out of the house at some point during the month of October here. Brenda told Nunley that she was upset about Rob trying to change the beneficiary on the life insurance policy. We'll find out why. Cell phone records indicate that 87 phone calls between Brenda and Nunley were completed during the months of September, October and November 2001. It's about 30. About one a day. That averages.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You talk to this motherfucker every day?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Every day. Every goddamn day.

[James Petregallo]

Outside of my wife and probably you, there's not a lot of people I talk to every day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's. Yeah, there's not a lot.

[James Petregallo]

You know, like, that's. Every day is a lot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

To talk to my mom every day.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, she's sick. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I haven't talked to my dad in three weeks. He's got stage four cancer.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a lot. Every day is a lot. It's just. You really gotta want that now. October 3, 2001, Brenda files for divorce. Officially, Rob doesn't want a divorce. He wants to get back together. That's what he wants. He told his friends Brenda could have the house, the money, whatever, but he just wants to be able to share custody of the kids. That's it. He just loves the kids, and he doesn't want to lose the kids. So. October 26, 2001, our first police involvement happens here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Buildings are smoldering on the other side of the country.

[James Petregallo]

And we got absolutely. We got worse shit happening here. So on this day, he spotted some fluid under his car when he went to get in his car. And he's getting in his car for a very specific reason. Because he's been called and told to go somewhere. Because Brenda's been hurt in a car accident. Oh. Been told to go to the hospital, but he spotted fluid under his car. So he drove to a repair shop that was very close by, and they told him, your brake lines have been cut.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. How'd you make it here?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they were like, I guess it was still in the lines, whatever was in the lines. So they said, your brake line's not ripped, cut, clearly, intentionally. Obviously someone cut them. They don't just explode in a perfect.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cut right in the most available spot for wire cutters to get to.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So Rob calls 911 because he's like, that's attempted murder. Yeah. He says to the 911 operator, tells her what happened, then says, that sounds like attempted murder, don't you think? Yeah, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Someone tried to kill me. Right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, he started. I guess him and Brenda have been fighting as well. She's been fighting, Flooding him with accusatory calls and leaving messages on his answering machine that are really nasty and yelling at him and openly telling everyone she knows that she hates him. Openly. Um, so he tells police that he thought that Brenda and James were plotting to kill him. They said, that's who cut my brake lines. This is fucking nuts. He goes, I got phone calls. The reason I was even going anywhere to find out my brake lines were cut is I got mysterious phone calls telling me that Brenda was in the hospital and was in a car accident. So I was. That's what this was. And we'll find out where those phone calls came from. He got phone calls from a man and a woman telling him this. You need to go to the hospital and get Brenda or go see Brenda. So, yeah. He tells police that he suspects his wife and James are having an affair. He says that James is very angry with him and quote, has talked about being a special forces commando and that he's killed numerous people while in the military.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. They teach you how to cut brake lines.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That's the go to there. Yeah. That's how he took down Hitler. That's what it was. It wasn't, you know, just the Russians and us invading. It wasn't a D day or any of that stuff. Brake lines. He went right off a cliff. Right off a cliff. Like a soap opera. We. Poof.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, this is good that he notified the police. Anyway, he told his friend, though it feels like he has a target on his back. Now he has to check his car before he gets in it. Like a gangster, you know, like, you want to start my car for me? So the next day, Brenda called Rob after the brake cutting incident and said that she read in the newspaper that someone cut his brakes. Are you okay in the newspaper? It was not in the newspaper. No media covered it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why would she say that?

[James Petregallo]

She figured it would be a story. But it wasn't. And the only people who knew that the brake lines were cut were Rob, the mechanic, the police, and fucking Brenda, obviously.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So I read a news story of you careening off a cliff. Are you okay?

[James Petregallo]

You good? Is that okay?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I made it to a garage where they fixed my brake lines. You cut, you psychotic bitch.

[James Petregallo]

You fucking asshole. So that's interesting. Now, another thing is the insurance here. After his brakes were cut, he inquired about removing Brenda completely as a beneficiary.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So the problem. This is fucking wild here. He asked James that because James is his insurance guy. So he thinks James just tried to kill him, but yet he goes to James because that's his insurance guy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So this is fucked up. At one point, by the way, there is a change of ownership form that's backdated to 2001. That's going to be suspicious. But anyway, Rob goes and tells and says, jamie, James, he wants to change it. Now James tells him, you can't change it because you're not the owner of the policy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She is.

[James Petregallo]

That's not true, though. No. So Rob then went to James's boss and said, can I change this beneficiary? I. You know, what the fuck here? And the guy said, of course you can. It's your policy. You're the. You're the owner of it. You pay for it. You can change it to anybody you want. You can have Michael Jackson get it if you want. He wasn't dead yet. Who it is, it doesn't matter. So they said that when James found out that Rob had went over his head at work, he was furious and called Rob up and said, quote, if you think you have problems with Brenda, you haven't seen anything till you've messed with me. Oh, okay. Now, while all this is going on, Rob is keeping a journal. This is his prayer journal. Apparently, we should have all changed our.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Life insurance policy people to Ed McMahon and surprised the shit out of him every single day.

[James Petregallo]

That would have been amazing. Why do people keep giving me money? I'm making a ton every day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Every day. Prudential and State Farm, they're all, by the way, ringing my doorbell.

[James Petregallo]

Who did Ed McMahon work for besides Johnny Carson?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

What's the name of the people who come to the door?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Publishers Clearinghouse.

[James Petregallo]

Nope.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What was it?

[James Petregallo]

Isn't that amazing?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is it not Publishers Clearinghouse?

[James Petregallo]

No, he worked for another one that was. That popped up to compete with Publishers Clearinghouse. And everyone thinks that Ed McMahon worked for publishers Clearinghouse. He has never worked for Publishers Clearinghouse for a day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was a different one.

[James Petregallo]

Isn't that amazing? That's a good. Blew my mind. I just heard that the other day. Just heard that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wasn't even Publisher's Clearinghouse.

[James Petregallo]

Nope, nope.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The publishers, every reference ever was. This better be Publishers clearinghouse and Ed McMahon with a big old fucking check for me.

[James Petregallo]

One of the guys who was running Publishers Clearinghouse wrote a book and was like, everyone thinks it's Ed McMahon. Never had McMahon. He goes, but we got the most free advertising out of that. Because you just put him with that. With that. Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What was the Clearinghouse?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. What? American whatever the fuck? Publishing? Who the hell knows? But it doesn't matter.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was American family publishers.

[James Petregallo]

There you go. Isn't that crazy?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nobody's ever heard of American whatever the fuck, and you gave away a bunch of money advertising it, you dumb fucks.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. They still. They made a fortune. So in Rob's prayer journal, he wrote that God would intervene and allow him to reunite with Brenda and the children. God's going to come fix this all. He wanted a change of heart, a recommitment to marriage and faith. And we wanted his life back. He said one of his entries, he said, I am in great pain. This is on November 12, he said, I know that if I face these problems and allow God to work, he will show me a way of escape. Later on that month, he wrote, this is November 19th, he wrote, I have faith in God. I should walk with assurance of the things I hope for. A relationship with my kids, a loving wife, a home that worships, laughs, plays and loves. So November 18, 2001, Brenda buys the kids a new puppy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, that was nice.

[James Petregallo]

A Yorkie, I guess. The son has a Chihuahua, but the daughter doesn't really like the Chihuahua. And the daughter's dog had Chihuahua. It's a New York accent. I don't know what you call it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Chihuahua.

[James Petregallo]

Nothing. Chihuahua. I don't know. Fuck you want from me? Say like the fucking. Like the store in Philly. The fuck you want for me? I don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You say that. Fun. All right, so they don't like the Chihuahua.

[James Petregallo]

So they got that. And then they also have. The daughter's dog. Had died a few months ago, so they had to put it down. So they get the daughter a Yorkie. They get Tri City a yorkie. They have 11 pounds of dogs in this house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Two dogs.

[James Petregallo]

Two of them. I didn't even mean to call her Tri City. Just. I meant to call her Trihty, and I called her Tri City.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tri City.

[James Petregallo]

Damn it hard. They said the girl's grandmother, this is Rob's mother, said she got that dog on Monday, and all day Monday they tried to get Rob to come over and see it. The kids were. They said he went over there with a friend, but something happened, and I don't think he got a chance to see the dog. Then what happened was he went over with a guy named Ronnie Stump, a friend of his. It's his best friend. And they went over to the house to see the dog. Brenda got livid that he brought someone over, even though it's his best friend. She's known him for 10 years or whatever, 15 years, livid, and said that no way, you're not. Wouldn't let him in the house because he brought a friend over. He even said, ronald, wait in the car. And he was. She was like, no, you brought someone here. You can go now. Get out. So Rob was really discouraged, obviously, here. And he was talking to Stump here about all this. And, you know, later on that night, he ended up going back to the house without Stump to see the dog. Okay, the. This is. His mother said this quote, Rob's mother. He did say that he went back over there later that night to see the dog. Tricity was just insistent on it. She kept calling late at night. It was like 10 o'clock. He went back over and Brenda brought the dog out to the car. But he never did get to see Tricity. It didn't make sense to him. Imagine her just like holding the. Look, here it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

See it?

[James Petregallo]

All right. Holding it up to the window, I guess. Pet it once or twice. See what you think.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Pounds of adorable. Look at it.

[James Petregallo]

Look at it. Now, that same day, the puppy thing and all of this on this same day, James buys a.22 caliber revolver from an Oklahoma City gun dealer. On that same day. Yeah, the Prudential guy. November 19th. The next day, 2001, there's a phone call here. I guess this is to a friend of hers who is the mother of one of Tricity's friends. Okay. She called this lady up, Brenda does Cynthia is her name, and repeatedly declared how much she hated Rob. Here's a quote from Cynthia. Quote, I hate him, I hate him, I hate him. I was shocked the way she said she hated him. Yeah, that's a lot of hate. Three hates. November 20th, 2001. Here we go. Now it's all coming closer together. Rob is supposed to pick the children up for the long Thanksgiving weekend. All right, he pulls up. While he pulls up, he's on the phone on a cell phone call with his friend Ronnie Stump. And as he's speaking to Stump, he says abruptly, I've got to go. They're coming out. And he hangs up. Yeah, he was in the driveway finishing up the conversation. The next thing you know, about 10 minutes later, 15 minutes later, there's a 911 call. And it's Brenda calling 91 1. And she says, quote, I've been shot. Oh, my husband and I, we've been shot. Oh, yeah, she said, we were in the garage and my husband. Me and my husband. And he's got blood all over him. That's at 6:20, that call is made. PM she said they'd been shot in the garage by assailants wearing black masks. That's what she said. Now, by the way, our Patreon could not be more apt for this, because that sounds crazy. Wait till you hear our Patreon. This. It's insane. So anyway, this is what's going on. And in a second call which ended at 6:26pm she said that Rob was bleeding a lot, but he was conscious, breathing and trying to talk.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Terrific.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. When the police arrived, Rob's car's in the driveway. Garage door was up. Brenda's van is in the garage. He's got a minivan, a maroon minivan. Rob is lying flat on his back on the garage floor in a pool of blood. Brenda's sitting about three feet away in the doorway between the garage and the house, just staring, staring down. Now, right away, they said, are there children in this house?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

And yes, there are. Oh, shit. Where the fuck are they? Yeah, cops go in, they look for the kids. The kids are perfectly safe and sound in the back bedroom room furthest from the garage. The door was shut and the TV was on to what the officer described. The volume raised to a very uncomfortable level.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like, loud for no reason.

[James Petregallo]

Loud as fuck. Like kids. Like, loud. But this is like, whoa. Like, you walk in a. Holy shit. It's on like, you know, 97. You're like, no, no, no, turn that down. So that's a lot here. He had come to pick the kids up and now he's on the floor. So this isn't good. She said that. They said, well, what the fuck happened? She said, well, I asked him if he could come and help me. The pilot light in the garage was getting. Was acting weird, so I asked if he could relight it for me. And he said, yeah, sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The hot water heater, I guess.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the furnace is out there. And he followed her and he squatted beside the furnace, and that's when this all happened. Now he is also clutching a trash bag filled with empty soda cans as well. They found him because he recycles. And he was trying to spread the word of recycling. Not only does he spread the word about Jesus, he spreads the word about recycling. So he said, oh, strangers are here. Let me tell you about the virtues.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Of this Johnny Recycleseed.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. That's me, baby. They think he grabbed it and tried to protect himself. Just grabbed whatever and was holding it up. I mean, people hold their hands up. He was holding up a bag of empty cans which didn't do much with gunshots that riddled his body, as we'll talk about here. Wow. So emergency personnel arrive. He's on the floor of the garage. He's got extensive blood loss and they're unable to revive him. Rob is dead. He's declared dead on the floor of the garage. Now, Brenda also has a gunshot wound to her arm, but it's a very superficial wound.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, great.

[James Petregallo]

Kind of a gray. Just a flesh wound, basically. So she is taken out of the garage to the curb to be treated and asked what the fuck happened. Basically, she told police at the scene that there were two armed assailants wearing black masks and black clothes that came in. She said they only said. These assailants only said six or seven words to her, but she couldn't remember any of them, what they were.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's so few I don't remember, and.

[James Petregallo]

I remember none of them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Must have been James. He's so forgetful.

[James Petregallo]

He's very forgetful. Wow. Yeah. So also, she said the assailants fled the scene on foot, is what she said. They took off. There was no car parked outside or anything like that. They took off several guys. So a patrolman who had responded to here, to this place here, his name is Roger Frost. He said he's been to several hundred crime scenes, 20 or 30 homicides. He's one of the first officers to arrive. He described Brenda's behavior as strange that evening. Yeah, he said she wasn't hysterical, as is usually the case. Instead, he said that she was very calm and able to answer questions straight on, and that every once in a while she would sort of cry, but it seemed fake to him. Now, this is not a good gauge of someone's truthfulness, though, because everybody. They've done countless studies, everybody reacts different to this type of Shit, everybody. Some people get super calm because there's stuff to be done and they get in that mode. Some people are hysterical.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You know, some people you've experienced in life, everybody handles shit different. If it's your first time with grief and murder and yeah, you're gonna have a problem.

[James Petregallo]

It's what, like, as crazy as I am, I'm great in a crisis.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

If something's going on like I am. Let's focus, let's do. I'm like a fucking military precision. I freak out afterwards and I'm like, now that that's over. But while it's going on, no need to get crazy. Let's fucking focus on what's happening. So maybe she's just doing that. Who knows? We don. So when asked what she did after the shots were fired, she said she went into the kitchen to get the phone to call 911 and then checked on the kids in the bedroom and then came back to the garage from there. The problem is there, there's no blood trail leading. She's bleeding from the arm.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's bleeding from the arm, didn't go in.

[James Petregallo]

No blood trail or any blood in the house at all. There's no blood inside the house. And she said she went in, walked all the way to the other side of the house and back, but never dripped a drop of blood. And that is strange. They didn't even find blood on the receiver of the phone, which is again, odd. So, yeah, she said that they said, start from the beginning. She said, I stepped outside the house and opened the garage door. The children remained in the house. She said, I brought a pet carrier to Rob's car and asked him to help turn the furnace back on, help light the pilot. Rob was dressed in long sleeve blue shirt, plaid socks, burgundy dress shoes. Followed her inside, knelt down beside the heating unit and went to work on lighting it. The police found burnt matches on the floor nearby, but the pilot light still unlit. Okay, so he was trying to do it. So she said he was squatting with his back to the garage entrance at the nose of the maroon minivan, which was off to his right, leaving a narrow alley between the passenger side of the vehicle and the east wall of the garage. As you know, if it's a one car garage, not a lot of room there. So from that point there, she says that she told police that she and her husband were disturbed by voices outside the garage. They heard something and they were like, what's going on? Two men rushed in, faces concealed by the dark masks. They were Outside, she said Rob turned around and a shot rang out and it hit him. She said he picked up a trash bag filled with cans and held it in front of him like a shield, which is just sad, you know, that's, that's. That sucks, man. The second shot was fired, she says that hit her in the arm. And then a third shot was fired after that. That hit him again. So they went and then they just took off on foot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't want anything. Just wanted to murder them in the garage, apparently.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Good time to shoot at people.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Not even the minivan they didn't want. So acting on their information, police began searching for these people that struck without motive or anything else, all over the place. And they were like, I don't understand it. There's only one escape route on the street. And it's at a time of day when there's a lot of activity. It's 6:00 at night. People are coming home from work, they're going out to grocery store, they're doing things. The men are never found in the neighborhood. No one else on the street saw anybody wearing all black in masks, carrying guns. Nothing of them even just two guys. They didn't see any of that. Nobody saw anything. No one in the neighboring areas saw them either running away. So they didn't know. There's none of that dematerialized. That Frost officer said about Brenda, she was crying like fake crying. She wasn't hysterical like most people involved in this kind of crime. So he said, you know, he had this Frost guy said he's familiar with the neighborhood because he works as an extra job as security in this neighborhood for the last 13 years. And he had written a driver a traffic ticket in front of their house less than an hour before the shootings.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just a minute ago, he was there.

[James Petregallo]

I was just in front of this fucking house, he said. So he was doing these extra patrols because Brenda had asked the security company for extra patrol around her home after they separated. She was saying she was scared of Rob.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Which there doesn't seem to be much reason to be scared of Rob. He doesn't. He does. Not like that. So the wounds here, Rob was shot twice with a 16 gauge shotgun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

They found a spent 16 gauge shotgun. Shell was found in the garage on top of the family van.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So somebody grazed with a shotgun too?

[James Petregallo]

No, we'll talk about that now. Rob owned a 16 gauge shotgun, but had sold several friends that Brenda refused to let him take it when they separated. And it's Usually in a closet in the bedroom. The shotgun is missing from the home, by the way. Oh, yes. One witness, by the way, comes forward and says they saw Brenda at an area used for target practice near her family's rural Garfield county home eight days before this murder. And later found several 16 gauge shotgun shells at the site out there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Now, Brenda's wound was caused by a.22 caliber bullet. Who's got one of those?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Prudential man just bought one.

[James Petregallo]

So Rob was shot once in the side and once in the neck.

[Jimmy Wissman]

God damn. With a shotgun.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. From pretty close range. Pellets from the first shot entered his right lung, trachea and liver. The second shot came downward into his neck, so right over him. It's cold blooded. Making a fist sized tear in the skin. That is horrifying, man. And hitting his aorta. A medical examiner said that the wounds would cause him to bleed to death in less than 10 minutes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, and by the way, fucking minutes with those shots. Ouch.

[James Petregallo]

Whether there's no way he was conscious and trying to talk probably with half of his neck missing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can't talk with your. Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That would be hard. Now, Brenda, they asked Brenda, you know, they're talking about the shotgun and all that. And she tells police if the shotgun were still in the house. Because they say, are there any shotguns in your house? And she said if there was in the house, it would be in the hall or the bedroom closet. So there's that. Now, James Higgins, who, by the way, was helping Rob move out of the house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, God.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. He said he saw the shotgun in the bedroom closet back then, which was a month ago. Month and a half ago. The murder weapon is never found. We'll talk about it. But they. The evidence shows that he was shot with a single shot shotgun, which had to reload. Reload. Which would make sense for the one shell, if you cock it, the shell pops out. That's on top of the minivan. And then the second shell is probably still in the gun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Still gone.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, because that's not one that automatically ejects. Correct.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right, right, right.

[James Petregallo]

You got to take those out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You got to.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Pop it, yank it out and throw a new one in and.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There's no. There's no rack in it. That's a single. Shotguns are useless.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I kind of thought. I'm glad I had that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's children's gun.

[James Petregallo]

It's a shotgun.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a 16 gauge. The 20 gauge is really for the. For the like 15 and 16 year.

[James Petregallo]

Old boys, you can murder a man pretty easily with it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can certainly hurt people with them.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it seems. Seems like it's. Don't talk shit about it. It seems like it's doing its work.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm not belittling it. I'm just saying single shot's not necessarily a great murder weapon.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, it's not. If you miss, you're in deep shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, they're talking about. They think he was trying to shield himself with cans and all of that kind of thing. So they say. She goes on to say that. And all the facts say he might have been conscious for a few minutes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Christ.

[James Petregallo]

During this. Now, in the door leading from the garage into the house, they found an embedded metal projectile. So they find an embedded bullet because it was mashed up. They couldn't figure out the caliber at the scene, but upon expert examination, it was determined to be a.22 caliber. So that's the one that went through Brenda's arm. I think it's her left, her left bicep, like right on the side there. I'm trying to remember the picture, which side it was on. So the. When she called, when she called James to ask him about it because I guess. Or did she find it or did they find it? Yeah, I guess they found it here. Oh. The projectile was. Was damaged like we said, to conclude it was too damaged to conclusively determine the manufacturer. So the state presented later on, they have experts that say the projectile was consistent with.22 caliber live rounds collected over the course of the investigation that we'll find. Now there's a live round that she finds in the house. And when she called James to ask him about it, he told her to throw the bullet away and not tell anybody about it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Don't say anything. Shut up.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's real interesting there. And by the way, the shot to Brenda is in the back of her arm. So it does not. It looks impossible to be self inflicted, basically. So Brenda's taken to the hospital for treatment. Her behavior was described by several witnesses. And these are people in the hospital that deal with this all the time as uncharacteristically calm for a woman whose husband had just been gunned down in front of her and she was shot also. It was wild. So Brenda says she agrees to speak with police because she wanted to help the police catch those responsible for shooting her husband. She said so she's taken to be questioned still with the smock on and everything from the hospital. And she really has no fucking choice. I mean, she's, she's. They gotta talk to her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You were there. We need information out of you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So the detective tells her, you're a witness, not a suspect. Don't worry. You know, all that. After the interview, they took her to a friend's house and everything. Like, you know, they tried to be whatever she was, not under arrest at any time, never handcuffed or restrained or anything like that. The police, the problem is here, they guess she is wounded and medicated at the time, so they're still trying to talk to her. She repeatedly told the officers she needed to leave and the officers would ask more questions rather than letting her leave. So at one point, about an hour and 20 minutes into the interview, she said, can I go see my kids? And they just didn't answer and they just kept talking. Forty minutes later, she asked again if she could go, you know, care for her children. And the detective told her she could only leave after they finished the questioning. Now, by that time, she. She's. By the time she ends up being released from the police station, it's after 1:00 in the morning. And they said that a lot of the questions were pointed and confrontational. Here's five questions that are considered accusatory here. About 30 minutes into the interview, a police detective asks Brenda what had been going on with Rob, why he'd moved out and what they fought about, which is reasonable. He's dead. You're trying to divorce him. He also. Then the detective left the room for about 20 minutes. When he returned, he asked Brenda if she had loved or hated her husband, because he probably went and talked to someone who said, I hate him, I hate him, I hate him is what she's been saying. And expressing a belief that she seemed to lack emotion. And they said, did you hate him that much that you don't show any emotion about it? And then he said, how do you feel about the fact that he's dead now? Then the detectives pressed her on her affairs, her relationship with James, the increases in the life insurance policy. This guy's got an $800,000 life insurance policy. You're having an affair and just filed for divorce. And you hate him and you hate him, hate him, hate him. So, I mean, obviously we have to talk to you. The detective then asked her about the incident with the brake lines, asking if Rob had suspected her of the cutting of the brake lines. Near the end of the interview, the detective questioned her about her promiscuity and said, how many guys did Rob accuse you of having affairs with. And then they asked her if she was currently having an affair. At times during the investigation, she curled up in the fetal position, knees pulled up to her chest under the hospital gown, wounded arm dressed and wrapped across her chest, back hunched over the chair in the interrogation room. So she's just shrinking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That's not good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like a mental patient.

[James Petregallo]

Well, when you shrink, that usually means you're trying to get away to protect yourself. Yeah. So it's. Brenda was the only living eyewitness to the crime. So, I mean, it was because she was complaining that they took her in there and asked her all these questions. It's like, yeah, we're trying. We got. According to you, we have two wild murderers out there who randomly shoot people. We'd like to catch them. You know what I mean? Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about a delicious sponsor, Thrive Market. We have both been trying to eat healthy. Thrive Market is where you go. And that's why we like Thrive Market. You see these ingredients and you're like, I don't know what that is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it's hard to figure out what's good for you and what's not. But Thrive has it all in one convenient spot.

[James Petregallo]

They have everything. There are no choice. Junk online grocery store that bans over 1,000 harmful ingredients and their team of product researchers like, I love a cookie. Okay. I like a cookie. I like a chocolate chip cookie. I like almonds, baby in it. They have a delicious alternative I found here that is a gluten free almond chocolate cookie and it's delicious. And I'm like a cookie snob too. I will, I'm. I usually don't like anything that's off, you know, Oh, I don't know what's. I want chocolate, sugar and all that. But no, these are delicious and they're gluten free and they're really good. Try them out. You can find better options way easily with Thrive Market's Healthy swap scanner. You can scan a product and it instantly recommends cleaner alternatives. That's great. So if you know you like this, but this isn't good for you, let's find a better alternative. Are you ready to make the switch? Go to thrivemarket.com smalltown murder for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T H R I V E market.com smalltown murder thrive market.com small town murder don't miss good American family. We have a little girl here for adoption. She has dwarfism. Starring Ellen Pompeo and Mark Duplass. Something is off. She's just a little girl.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You think she's fake?

[James Petregallo]

She has adult teeth. There are signs of puberty. Inspired by the shocking stories that Torah. Family apart. I don't know what's going on. How old are you? You should get a lawyer. You have no idea how those people hurt this girl. The Hulu original series, Good American Family. New episodes, Wednesdays, streaming on Hulu. That's very interesting here. And they said that it was very strange that she couldn't remember the words spoken by her attackers. Any of them.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not one.

[James Petregallo]

Even a gist. Something.

[Jimmy Wissman]

When you've got a gun around and one's been fired, you start remembering those things that happen in that moment. You never forget them.

[James Petregallo]

No. And then evidence at the crime scene is starting to be a little goofy too. Here. There's no blood trail in the house, even though Brenda said that after being shot, she ran from the garage to grab the phone and check on her two children. No blood trail, not even blood on the handle of the telephone. Also, the police find out about the affair. They asked her, ask her about that and everything like that. Then they go, once they find out about the affair, they go search James's apartment, they search his apartment, and they seize a name change document that's got stuff on it. Filled out a black book containing a list of weapons and ammunition and two.22 caliber bullets. Not the type used to shoot in the murder here, but different type.22 caliber, not the shotgun shells. So then all of a sudden, Brenda and Rob's next door neighbor, Dean Gigstad pops up here. Now, Dean says here they found some suspicious things in their home and they call the police.

[Jimmy Wissman]

In their house?

[James Petregallo]

In their house. They had been on vacation the night of the shooting. And by the way, Brenda has a key to their house. Oh, okay. The families would get together over time, and eventually he said, you know, he gave him a key to their house in case I'm out of town and something's going on or, you know, it's good to have somebody extra have a key to your house just in case. Also, if you lose your keys, you can go get a key from Brenda. He said that Brenda had that key for years now. They said they were on the gig. Stats were on a retirement trip to Colorado. Before leaving town, they helped the Andrews break in a new hot tub.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ew.

[James Petregallo]

And yeah, I was like, that's gross. That doesn't sound very churchy. You guys are talking about hoochie Mama, you're all in a hot tub together.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Break in the hot tub. That's a gross way to put it.

[James Petregallo]

That sounds disgusting. And listened as Rob talked about buying his wife a larger home. Oh, this is before he moved out. So he's. These people have been gone for a couple of months now. Now Gigstad says that he thinks the killer ran into his garage, climbed into the attic, and remained inside the house all night as the investigation went on next door. Yeah, they said that the killer left.22 caliber bullets, a spent 16 gauge shotgun shell and a broken footstool inside the house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Gig said, I think you're a. You're on to something here, investigator. You've done a nice job.

[James Petregallo]

Not bad. So, yeah, then police go over. They find evidence that someone had entered the Gig Stats attic through an open. An opening in a bedroom closet.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yep.

[James Petregallo]

They snuck up there. A spent 16 gauge shotgun shell was found on the bedroom floor and several.22 caliber rounds were found in the attic itself. There were no signs of forced entry into the home. You know, like you needed a key. So the, the round. They also had found a.22 caliber round in John Jana Larson's car, James's daughter's car, which was the one of the same brand as the three rounds found in the attic. The.22 caliber bullet fired at Brenda was retrieved from the Andrews garage. Appeared consistent with the bullets in these unfired rounds as well. The rounds are capable of being fired from a firearm that he purchased two days earlier, before the murder as well. And they couldn't test it further because they never found that handgun. That's the other thing. He buys a gun and then three days later he's like, no idea where it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Real loosey goosey with my handgun.

[James Petregallo]

I just, you know, fuck it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I just bought it. I don't know. It's. It's mine. I can do with it what I want.

[James Petregallo]

I just put it, you know, I threw it in the river and, you know, that's what you do. You get a gun, you look at it, you shoot it a couple times, throw it in the river. That's what people do. What do you want from me?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Told that's how you dispose of them.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. So the 16 gauge shotgun shell found in the Gig Stats home was one of the same brand as the 16 shade shotgun shells found in the garage. The spent shell. This is not good. Ballistics comparisons showed similar markings indicated they could have been fired from the same weapon. Whether the shells were fired from. From the 16 gauge shotgun that Rob had left at the home was impossible because that gun remains missing as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Doesn't look good.

[James Petregallo]

Does not look good. So Gigstad's got a theory of the crime. And at this point I'll take Gigstad's theories because he seems smarter than anybody else investigating this fucking thing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's pretty good.

[James Petregallo]

He's pretty good. And he's like an old guy too. He says the killer approached Rob Andrew and shot him twice with a single shot. 16 gauge shotgun. Perhaps the same gun that Rob's father had given him when he was a boy. This is his like heirloom gun and the same one that Stump the friend told police that Brenda would not let would not return to her husband. Gigstad thinks after the firing the first shots, the killer had to eject the shell and load another after the first shot. In the process he lost track of the spent shell which was resting on top of the minivan. They say from what we can gather he made the 20 steps over here. It's only 20 steps from the garage to his house in about 10 seconds. Came through the garage and went up through a crawl space into the attic where he stayed through the night. The next morning he came down from the attic and stepped on this footstool. It broke under his weight and he stashed it under the bed in the net in the master bedroom. He's not either. This must have been a weak stool.

[Jimmy Wissman]

One of those suicide stools.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, shit ones. Probably for a kid. One of those like for a kid to brush their teeth or something not meant for your ass coming out of a fucking attic. Before leaving the attic, the killer abandoned the.22 bullets. When it appeared safe. The killer peeked out of the windows staring out at the detectives and technical advisors who remained near the Andrew home till about 4am he said, I think he was probably waiting for everyone in the neighborhood to go to work the next morning and then he walked out. But Gigstad's son arrived at the house at about 8am unaware that anyone was in the house. The killer must have heard the key turning in the lock and slipped into a bedroom closet to hide. While inside the closet he realized he hadn't reloaded the shotgun and fumbled to slide a shell into the chamber. And the spent shell dropped to the floor where it was found later. This guy's a fucking homicide detective. This is the neighbor. This isn't the homicide detectives theory. He's got it nailed because it's here. He must have done that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Whoever did it is a complete dipshit.

[James Petregallo]

Dipshit probably not good at this and not done a lot of murders, maybe the first time. So the gig stat said, when I heard they found such a critical piece of evidence in the bedroom, I couldn't figure out why he'd leave it there. But this makes sense to me. Gigstad's 26 year old son walked into the bedroom and stood with his back to the closet. He found the piece of nursery equipment he was looking for on the bed. They said if it hadn't been there, this guy would have looked in the closet and he would have probably been shot, would have probably been killed. Because Gigstad said when he reloaded that shotgun, I think he made up his mind that if anyone saw him, he wouldn't be allowed, wouldn't be allowed to escape. Also, they police never found the house key that he gave to Brenda either.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's like, I don't know where it is.

[James Petregallo]

No idea where it is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's not a good person to have your house key.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. It gets weirder. November 26, 2001 is the funeral for Rob. So Brenda's got to show up with the kids and, you know, put her least tight dress on and go there and look sad, you know what I mean? So Wade Burleson is the pastor who presided over the funeral. He said he met with Brenda a few days before the funeral to plan the service and he found her demeanor to be cold, flat, and unemotional. I want to help the people who grieve at the funeral service to understand the person who has died. I have a standard question that I always ask. Would you tell me what it is that you will miss about your loved one so he can use that as a theme. And they said, well, did she respond? And Burleson said, she did not say anything to me. She just stared at me. I thought she didn't understand the question, so I asked it again. Again, she said nothing. So I prompted her. I said, is there a character quality? Is there a story to help me relate to others? Your love for Rob? And then she said one word. Nothing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

Nope, don't give a fuck. So he said he officiated this here and he said that they're waiting to start the funeral and at the time that it's supposed to be is here, but there's no Brenda and no kids, nothing. We can't start it without the spouse. So he said in 40 years, this is the first time that the spouse who planned the funeral didn't show up for it. I've done a lot of funerals man, that has never happened before.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're not gonna take the kids to bury their father?

[James Petregallo]

Nah. Fuck, wait till you hear where she's going. So the funeral director whispered in this guy's ear, what do we do? The fuck do we do? It's packed in here. This is a famous thing. And now a lot of people are here. This is at the Crossroads Community or Crossings Community Church in Oklahoma City. They said, brendan, the two children aren't here, and we're already 15 minutes past the start time. So Burleson said, start the service anyway. Brenda's not coming.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Gotta do it.

[James Petregallo]

That's all there is to it. So the funeral director said, I spoke with her on the phone 30 minutes ago. She said she. She and the kids were on their way. Burleson said, quote, no, she's not coming. Brenda murdered her husband. She's on the run. That's what he said. And the funeral director was like, holy shit. And went up and started the service. That was that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think I've put it together real quick.

[James Petregallo]

I think I got this now. On November 26th, this same day, someone attempted to use James ATM card or credit card at a cash machine in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. Oh, what a border town here. So neither James's car nor Brenda's minivan have been spotted, despite a global manhunt by law enforcement and international media exposure. On America's Most Wanted and Inside Edition, they did two America's Most Wanted on the shit. Now, James on Thanksgiving. He's last seen on Thanksgiving by anybody where he met with his attorney and ate turkey sandwiches in the guy's office.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he went to meet with his attorney on Thanksgiving and ate turkey sandwiches and denied any connection to the crime whatsoever. Now, Brenda's family, because they go. The press go to her family, and they're like, she didn't show for the husband's funeral. This isn't good. Her family says, no, no, no. She's super innocent. And that's. She's a girl scout leader and a homeroom mom and a Sunday school teacher. She's incapable of violent crime. She's been abducted.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they said that. Quote, this is from the family's attorney, quote, she may have, God forbid, met the same fate Rob did. These people are back for her, man. They didn't finish her off the first time.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right. The guys got away and they're coming back.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. So it's at this point where James's daughter Jana steps forward and tells the cops everything because they had searched her car, found the Bullet. And they're like, well, you have a bullet that's making you look bad, so you better start fucking talking.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She goes, okay, he's gonna put a baby in somebody.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, there's that. Now, she said that both James and Brenda told her they were leaving because they were anticipating being arrested for murder after the funeral.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They're all together.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. They were gonna wait till they lowered him in the ground, and then they were gonna slap the cuffs on her in front of her kids. She thought James called his daughter several times from Mexico and asked her to send them money. Now, she cooperated with the FBI, the daughter, and local authorities to try to track them down instead. So this daughter here testifies later on that in late October, a month before the murder, James told her that Brenda had asked him to murder Rob. Yeah, she said that. Quote, he said, you're never going to believe what that nuttier than a fruitcake woman asked me to do.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's heard how forgetful.

[James Petregallo]

I'm going to put a baby in it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's just going to say shit out loud and think everybody will forget this without a problem.

[James Petregallo]

Sure. And then he told me that she asked him if he would kill her husband or if he knew someone that could do it. You don't have to do it personally. I mean, just direct. Push me in the right direction. Is there a store at the mall I can go to? What are we talking about here? So the conversation occurred around the end of October, about the same time that James had asked his daughter to call Rob and tell him to drive to Norman, Oklahoma, to pick up Brenda after the brake lines had been cut. She was the female caller she called. Yep, that's absolutely right. They. I guess the brakes were cut on the night of the 25th, going into the 26th. The next morning, James persuaded his daughter to call Rob from an untraceable phone. It was a payphone. And claim that Brenda was at a hospital in Norman, Oklahoma, and needed him immediately. An unknown male also called Rob that morning to plea for this. Rob's cell phone records showed that one call came from a payphone in Norman near the daughter's workplace, by the way, like, right by her job. And the other came from a payphone in South Oklahoma City. So, yeah, and we're talking about. We told you about the gun, the bullets that matched from her car to the attic. And she says the daughter, Janice, says that James had her car on the day Rob was killed and that the next time she drove the car, she saw the bullet on the floorboard.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, Boy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So he borrowed his daughter's car to commit a murder, apparently.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

She obtained, I guess, James. In the days following the murder, James obtained information over the Internet they find through his searches about Argentina. Because he told people that he heard that Argentina had no extradition agreement with the United States. Yeah, he just, like, saw Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and were like, we could do that. It's fine. So then after that, after the murder, Brenda and James asked the daughter here to help them create a document with the forged signature of Rob granting permission for his children to travel with Brenda out of the country.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So these people decided to plan a murder. And then we'll plan the rest of it later.

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck? We'll figure it out later. But we'll get the other stuff. We gotta get the insurance in place first. That's the most important insurance murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Then we'll plan the rest, then.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Argentina is nice at this time of year.

[James Petregallo]

I hear it's lovely. So Brenda also asked Jana to transfer funds from her bank account to Jana's own bank account so that Jana could wire them money after they left. So she said, my bank account's gonna be a no go, so you need to. We'll do it from yours. Now, inconsistencies in Brenda's story, besides all of this, which is kind of. It's over everything. Yeah, but they need evidence besides one person. So her superficial wound was caused by the.22 fired at close range, which was inconsistent with her claim that she had been shot at a good distance. She was supposed to be across the garage from these people. Expert testimony opines that the wound to her arm was not self inflicted, but look like part of a scheme to stage a scene to make it look like she's a victim so, you know, less suspicious. James obviously purchased a.22 caliber handgun from a local gun shop two days before the murder. Yeah, he borrowed his daughter's car, claiming he was gonna have it serviced for. Just gonna be a good dad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm gonna go change your oil, honey. I'm a good dad.

[James Petregallo]

You come back. Oil still gunky, but there's a bullet on the floor now. Perfect. The car. When it came back, the car had not been serviced, but a.22 caliber bullet was in her car. In a conversation later that day, James told Jana never to repeat that Brenda had asked him to kill Rob and he threatened to kill his own daughter if she did.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Don't tell your daughter about your sexual activities or your murders. And never threaten to kill your Daughter ever. What kind of a. How could she like, what kind of outlook mentally can she have at this point? My father threatened to kill me and used me in a murder and then.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Told me gross sex stories.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, God. He also told her to throw away the.22 round she found in her car, which she didn't. She turned it over to the cops.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

A handwriting expert determined that Rob's signature on insurance papers that renamed Brenda as beneficiary after he had taken her off with the boss were doctored and they were forged signature. Apparently in the last year, Rob had began signing his name with a Jesus fish. He put a Jesus fish on it at the end. Everybody know what that is? The little Jesus fish? Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That used to be a magnet or a sticker that people used to put on their cars.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. But it was not on the papers that he claimed were genuine, that James claimed were genuine documents, but it was on other ones so they forgot to do it. That's wild.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a mess. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

On the actual valid documents, Rob did change the beneficiary, but to Tricity and Parker and his children. With a fish. Pow. Now Brenda is in Mexico. They're all in Mexico. Remember Nunley there, the guy, she had an affair. He gets a call from her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

While she's in Mexico. And he's like, whoa, this is fucking crazy. Brenda was wanting his help in getting in touch with an attorney and her sister.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, remember all that free pussy I gave you now?

[James Petregallo]

10 years worth. Fucking loser. So she said she had told him this is his quote. She said she had an important or had important attorney papers in the children's luggage. A written confession. This. There is a written confession. It is a written confession written by James. It's in letter form to Tricity, the daughter, and it is basically explaining that he killed the father and that he's sorry.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Expert in handwriting verifies that James wrote this letter. By the way, November 29, 2001, Oklahoma county prosecutors file first degree murder charges against Brenda and James. I mean, you have to here obviously here. And the Rob's parents file for guardianship of the children at that point too, which is smart. An attorney for Brenda suggested she would return to surrender. But prosecutors and the FBI said a bullshit. She's not coming back to surrender. One of the agents said, we felt like they would be running out of money, so they're either going to give up, get a job, which would be very difficult because they're south of the border, or seek help. We felt like at this point, since there had been no spottings and no sightings, that they were probably seeking some help. And they were, they were getting Janet to send the money now. November 30, 2001, federal authorities now charged them with illegal flight to avoid prosecution as well. They're still gone, though. February 7, 2002. Brenda's attorney tries to trade a confession letter because he found the confession letter, James's for a dismissal of the charges against Brenda. Sure. I'll give you this if you dismiss against my client because in the letter it says Brenda had nothing to do with it. That's part of it. Your mom had nothing to do with it, I should say. The district attorney said, fuck out of here with that shit. One person was getting the money and it wasn't him. So she's more than involved. February 28, 2002, the authorities here, it's about 11:40am It's a Thursday, and there's a guard here, last name of Huerta, who's working at the border. Okay. He spots in a minivan.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, they took the van down.

[James Petregallo]

Two men and two children in a minivan. He finds two men and he finds a very sad little girl with who's crying, eyes red. Crying, crying, crying. So he said, quote, anytime you see a situation like that, you check to make sure the children aren't being kidnapped. Smart. I'm happy they do that. So the crying girl was Tricity. And she. He said he didn't know what the fuck this was. He just was a crying little girl. So he was like, oh, shit, I want to, you know, want to help this crying little girl. So two other people were in the van. It is Tricity there. She's accompanied by a crying boy, as well as we know, and an older man. The older man. I'm sorry. So it's a boy, a girl and an older man. The older man is Jim Bolin. That is Kim, Brenda's sister's husband, Brenda's brother in law. He's there. So the Huerta searches the bags and the contents of the girl's suitcase included a diary and an assortment of hand drawn pictures of dogs. So this guy, the border guy said I could tell she liked dogs, you know, he said she had pictures and drawings everywhere and you know, so there's that. So that'll come in handy for him in a minute. So the FBI and Customs official said the two children were in a 2000 white van driven by James Boland, who's Brenda's brother in law. So they said that his story didn't seem to add up. They felt like his story was somewhat suspicious. Why an uncle was coming up from Mexico with two young children makes no sense, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

I want to know so much more.

[James Petregallo]

He's not even the blood relative, you know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wissman]

And this isn't her minivan. Hers is maroon.

[James Petregallo]

Hers is maroon, yeah. Whatever he was telling the customs officer sounded suspicious to them and they opted to detain him for further investigation, which they said happens quite often. Often. So in an attempt to calm the little girl down, this border guy popped up with some trading cards that customs officials have for children. They're cards that feature photographs of the sniffer dogs. Oh, those are fun. Yeah, they're like trading cards of the dogs, basically.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is Duke. Isn't he adorable?

[James Petregallo]

And has details of what kind of dog they are and their histories and careers and all that kind of shit. So this guy said, I went up to her and asked her if she liked dogs. And she nodded yes. So I opened up a couple of packs of cards and started show them to her. She just started crying again. So eventually this guy, because there's a million. If you've ever been to the border, there's all sorts of guys. You don't just get stuck with one guy. They're moving all around. So he said he lost track of the girl after that because he moved on to help with other inspections. Then about 20 minutes later, something else happens. About 20 minutes after this happens, an automatic tag reader on the Hidalgo side of the bridge registers a hit on an Oklahoma license plate. They had tag readers in 2001, which is shocking, honestly.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, that's probably nine. Eleven did that.

[James Petregallo]

Probably, yeah. Customs inspectors soon confirmed the car's occupants were wanted by the FBI. Who's in the car? It is Brenda and James.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There she is.

[James Petregallo]

She left her fucking kids with her brother in law to try to get into the country.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

They called her a raven haired woman in her 30s and a slim man in a blue shirt and sunglasses. They offered no resistance. Wow. So the border crossing guard who was talking to the girl said he was called away from the fugitive's vehicle to help with another search. When he returned, they had already been detained and the car had been abandoned. They said the supervisor ordered him to put the fugitive's belongings back into the car. He said, I picked up her purse. Its zipper was broken. And when I picked it up, it broke completely. I could see inside the purse and I saw a picture in another compartment just like that. I knew it was exactly the same girl. The little Boy looked. The little boy, he looked worried, too. I knew it was them. He saw pictures. Yeah. So they. He connected it right away. He said he rushed to a supervisor to issue an all points bulletin on that fucking Ford minivan. Don't let it go, whatever you do. But he couldn't remember the color of the minivan. It's white. Couldn't remember that. He sees a million. In his defense, he's seen like 150 cars since then, so. So then they saw the van near the entrance to the immigration office. The guys go inside and call out the children's names. They turn around.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hey.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. And so they say, ah, there we go. Jim is. Bolin is taken to a holding cell and later released because he didn't really commit any crime. Even though he did, he's eating and abetting a lot. So for about three hours, this guy said the children cried nonstop. Custard. Customs inspectors gave them cookies, drinks, games. Nothing helped. They were.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Stop crying, fucker.

[James Petregallo]

Stop crying, you little bastards. But they were. I mean, their dad's dead. Their fucking mother isn't even with them. They're in a foreign country, like, everything's changed. They don't have their puppy with them. So this guy said they didn't respond to anything until they saw their mom. About 4:30pm, the FBI took custody of the fugitives and the children. I just pictured the kids in cuffs with their heads down, walking away, too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Walked with a bag over their head?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, with like a. Yeah, I was going to say with a jacket going over their face. Um, so they're going to be incarcerated. The adults are in Hidalgo County Jail in Edinburgh, Texas, and the. The children would be with their. Rob's parents. The guy who found them said he was proud that he found the children, but he says he remains haunted by one of the details, a detail that he learned from Tricity in the moments he spent searching her luggage. He said, when I was going through her journal, the little girl. When I was going through the little girl stuff, I saw her journal. She had written something to her best friend about her new dog in November. I don't remember exactly what it said, but that was the last time she wrote before all this happened. She never wrote in it again. Yeah. Now Brenda's in jail. In jail, she comes in contact with Teresa Sullivan, who's a federal inmate in. At the Oklahoma County Jail. Out so bad, she really wants out. She really would love a shortened sentence. Here. She tells the cops that Brenda told her she and James killed her husband for the money. The kids and each other. And Brenda also told her that James shot her in the arm to make it look like she was a victim.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So tomorrow I go home.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe tomorrow. By the way, if you're going to stage something, because we've had this many times, if you're going to stage something, you have to have a life threatening wound.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You better fucking take a chance.

[James Petregallo]

You gotta say, shoot me on the side of the chest where my heart isn't as and finger isn't. And fingers crossed because holy shit, otherwise nobody buys it. So anyway, she, she is called by Brenda's people a known snitch. She said in the jail she's known as the mouth of the South. Chris Sullivan, get over there and talk to her. That's amazing. And they also claim that Sullivan and Brenda could not have contacted each other either verbally or through notes. And that there were newspapers available to the inmates in the pod. So Sullivan could have learned the facts of the case through news reports. Okay, so discovery of the testimony isn't going to be presented later on anyway. Defense here later on said that defense counsel was allowed to produce the testimony of Angela Burke, who testified that later on that Sullivan is a known snitch and that she communicated to Sullivan through cell doors. And that she testified that inmates were sometimes out in the pod together. September 10, 2002. Brenda and James are ordered to go on trial for first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. February 28, 2003, they go their separate ways. The judge grants a severance of their trials. So they will have separate trials. Absolutely. So Brenda also wants a change of venue. She says there's been extensive coverage around here. People are gonna be familiar with this and this is crazy. The judge said this. He considered the evidence and then denied the motion, saying, I don't think we're gonna know whether unbiased jurors can be seated until such time as we bring in a large panel, put them up in the jury box and voir dire them. It's unfortunate, but that's actually the only way that you can make that determination. You can't just say, people must know about it. So never mind, let's ask him. April 1, 2003. Rob's parents are granted guardianship pending the outcome of Brenda's trial. So it'll become permanent if she's convicted and not if it's not. If she's not. May 27, 2003. James's confession letter is made public now.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

He takes full responsibility for the planning and implementation of the murder. He describes how he Planned the crime and how he enlisted a friend to help. He says that after his friend shot Rob and he shot Brenda, they ran and hid in the house next door. He says that he admitted his involvement in the murder to Brenda only while they were on their trip to Mexico. She was totally innocent. Totally innocent. Yeah, she said that. He said that Brenda was shocked, angry and hurt by his actions and that she just couldn't understand why he would do it. But this isn't a confession letter to the daughter to try to make her feel better about this. So you know what I mean? It's crazy. So this is made public in a motion filed by Brenda's attorneys asking that the charges against her be dismissed. Well, all cleared up now. So another witness, regards to the letter from James, introduced to trial, stated that he and another assailant were responsible and Brenda was not involved. He said that he shot Brenda. That's. That's what's interesting, too. We know you shot Brenda. So that's interesting. And also, Brenda provides an affidavit from James Boland, the guy who got caught with the kids in Mexico, who says that James told him the same story when he met him in Mexico just days prior to their arrest. Well, yeah, that's his story now. He's not going to tell the story.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's not gonna change it now. He's gotta stick with it.

[James Petregallo]

So next up, right after this, someone confesses to the murder, but it's not James or Brenda. No, no. It's another inmate. It's a guy named Shit Zaitan Tyrone Jake Wood. Yeah. And this guy is in jail for murder. And he wrote a letter saying, I am writing this letter to you to confess to a murder that I committed on or around November 20, 2001. He writes a. To the District Attorney. The murder victim's name is Robert Andrew. Okay, so he's being. This guy Wood is being held in the Oklahoma County Jail and his brother also is there. They're waiting for trial in the death and robbery of a Montana man at an Oklahoma City motel. And they're seeking the death penalty on these two. Most of what he writes about in his three page handwritten letter. The problem is all of this shit's been published in the newspaper. So he could have just read newspapers and. And known this. He also doesn't mention the second assailant at all. He says he does say he climbed through a window next door and hid in the attic. But Dean Gigstad had already said this in multiple articles. They talk about this all the time in these newspapers. And he said that the house was secure when he left and couldn't find signs of forced entry. So unless this guy found a way to get a key. Also unless he found a key on fucking Brenda's keychain and decided it must be for the next door house.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now hang on to this one for a minute.

[James Petregallo]

So they don't believe him at all. They don't know what the fuck he's doing. Because then after that, he starts confessing to other murders that they know he didn't commit, murders that other people committed on video. He's like, I did that one too. They're like, no, you didn't think maybe he's trying to draw this out and maybe get a deal. September 2003. Here is James's trial. His trial is first. He wants a change of venue also. And there are some stats behind why he wants this. Apparently, he says 1527 stories aired on Oklahoma City's four major television networks from the day of the murder until January 4, 2003. According to Nielsen Media Research, these 1527 stories reached a cumulative audience of 81,997,314 people. That's gross impressions. That's not how many people that is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

The Nielsen ratings for this.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, that's. Yeah, 81 million. Fucking. A third of the country doesn't have access to local Oklahoma City news channels. They just don't. So in a telephone call poll of 303 Oklahoma county residents conducted in September and October of 2016, 2002, 87% had heard of the murder. And of these people here, 93% had heard of the case through the media. Out of the people who had heard of it. Between November 21, 2001 and the day of the murder, which is the day of the murder, and October 29, 2002, 74 articles appeared in the Daily Oklahoma newspaper, and 40 of those articles were on the front page. This was really covered, man. It was. It's Sunday school teacher, massacre of sex and Sunday school and all this shit. It's. Of course, they also said nationally, the story about the murder appeared in the 2000, October 2, 2002 edition of People's magazine or People magazine, twice on America's Most Wanted and twice on primetime Thursday. So they said throughout the pleadings, James's council incorrectly reports this number is 15,027. This number includes multiple times a story may have appeared on a single day or even in a single broadcast. For example, on November 27, a week after the murder, a total of 20 stories aired KFOR ran two stories at 5:00am, two stories at 6:00am, one at noon, one at 6. They go down all of this. So the court ruled that most of the media stuff concentrated on Brenda. So don't worry about it, you're fine. So yeah, they said Brenda had a lot of, you know, a lot of people talking about her. She's the wife, not you. So the state's evidence, they have to demonstrate more than just motive. Obviously there's motive, but motive isn't everything. You have to have some kind of evidence. They do find a bunch of physical evidence though. The bullets, the shotgun shells, forged documents which link James to the murder and a pre existing plan to get away with it. Talking about Mexico and everything like that, that all happened before the murder. The testimony of his daughter. Why would she lie to put him away? His own daughter helped to show that James and Brenda planned to harm Andrew for some time and that the failure of the first attempt only emboldened them, meaning the break lines. The daughter also related a number of incriminating statements from both Brenda and James. The daughter may not have been an eyewitness to the murder itself, but she was certainly an eyewitness to many overt acts of the two co conspirators and to their preparations for flight after the murder. The state also presented the letter written by James from jail wherein he admittedly. He admitted complicity in the murder but attempted to exculpate Brenda. Both parties rejected the letter as an accurate version of what happened, although for different reasons. While the letter may have borne some relevance to show his complicity, it was perhaps more relevant to show how jealousy and greed can fuck everything up. Here is what they say in there. Also the numerous other witnesses who spoke with and observed Rob and Brenda and James as their relationship with one another evolves. The evidence against James is largely circumstantial but I mean that's not that unusual obviously, but there's a shitload of circumstantial. I mean it's a. I mean there's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Physical too with the.

[James Petregallo]

There is. I mean it's not bullets, it's not.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Guaranteed bullets, no, there's no forensics. But that's because he did such a great job of getting rid of the.

[James Petregallo]

Gun that's he just did a good, a fine job of it. Now the other guy, remember the Wood guy who confessed to it in jail? He was waiting awaiting trial on unrelated charges of first degree capital murder. He happened to be housed in the same pot of the county jail as James. He just heard about It. The letters were handwritten, but practically identical. The one he wrote, he wrote two different ones. It appeared that one had been copied verbatim from the other or that they had both been copied from another source. While the letters were detailed, they were perhaps too detailed and appearing to parrot certain key features of the state's case. So, yeah, there's all of this shit. And they had publicly done everything. So that's all public. September 15, 2003, is the verdict for James. Jury deliberates for two and a half hours and they find him guilty of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, sentencing comes around here. October of 2003, here it comes. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty for James.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he got death penaltied on that one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's that. So anyway, his lawyer said Mr. Pavitt has great Christian faith. He believes that everything happens for a reason and that God is directing his life in Oklahoma. This isn't the first time an innocent man's been convicted and sentenced to death in Oklahoma County. So we'll work on that now. July, June, July 2004, another Tupac song. Brenda had a trial that's on another album. Brenda killed her baby and now she's on trial for it. It's a real tragic thing here. So that's a Tupac lyric, by the way. Not everyone's gonna know that. That's what I'm saying. People are gonna be like, that's Jimmy saying that. No, that's. That's Tupac saying that in 1992. Don't worry about it. So Brenda's trial here. Oh, man, they talk about her lawyer says it's really going to be hard to get a jury. That is the kind of thing that has caused people to change, to do change of venue motions. It's amazing how often something happens, can happen in a town and no one knows about it. This case was a big deal in town and may have polluted the potential jury pool to the sense that everyone knows about it. They tell her to fucking pound sand, but pound sand here, not away from us, because we're doing it here. The openings here. The prosecution, in his opening statement, told the jury Brenda had extracurricular activities. She liked to cheat on Rob. This is a quote, by the way. Throughout the marriage, Brenda had a boyfriend on the side. They go on to talk about how she's accused of making passes at teenagers who are working on her deck and all of that shit. Another thing they really tout here. Oh, my goodness. This really means she's Guilty is the book the cops found in the second drawer of the nightstand next to her bed. Think about it. It's dark, man. Dirty Dark. 203 Ways to Drive a man wild in bed by Olivia St. Clair.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So she's dirty.

[James Petregallo]

It's a long Cosmo article, basically. You know what I mean? That's. That's not. You can sell that on a. On the fucking. At a checkout line at the grocery store.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That seems like a lot.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what is. There's an old joke about that 203 because. Yeah, there's an old joke about. It's like a hacky stand up joke from like the 80s about. Yeah, Cosmo. Hundred ways to satisfy your man. I can think of one. That's all you need, lady. Can't remember whose it is, but it's some bullshit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Something is incredible. I kind of want to read that.

[James Petregallo]

Tickle his feet. What is it? That's what I mean. There's gonna be ones that are probably not like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Smack it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Now, the prosecutors put a lot of emphasis on this book and her affairs and all this type of shit. Meanwhile, all they need to concentrate is altered insurance policy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bingo.

[James Petregallo]

Period. Period. To me, that's it. Altered insurance policy. You ran away to Mexico. Fucking case closed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, fish, you're in Mexico. Come on, lady.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Give me a goddamn break. So also they talk about this the Sullivan, the probably the mouth of the south snitch there. She was not facing state charges. She testified that she did not expect any benefit from testifying because she's testifying in a state trial while being held by federal authorities. She just happened to be held at the county jail. She said she did not seek out authorities with which to share her story. She as well as other incarcerated inmates in the county jail with Brenda were contacted to determine whether they had information. The cops went there and talked to everybody around her and said, is she talking? So there's that. Anyway, they do give the instruction that she's a jailhouse informant and take that to the jury. Take that as what you will here. So she's fighting the shotgun evidence here. Brenda's claim is basically, she's got different things here. They start with testimony concerning Rob's 16 gauge shotgun. The fact that Rob owned a 16 gauge shotgun was not in dispute. The fact that he was killed by a 16 gauge shotgun, also undisputed. The fact that is significant given the. That's significant considering the fact that a 16 gauge shotgun is less common than a 12 or a 20.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So he said the fact that his shotgun was in the house and now it's not, and the murder weapon was that, and it's never been recovered. Pretty big coincidence.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, it's a pretty big deal.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty big deal. The statements here, they talk about, revolve around Rob's desires and expressed to witness Ron Stump to get his shotgun out of the marital home after Brenda had changed the lock and security codes on him. Uh, Rob told Ron that Brenda would not let him have the shotgun. The statement was made a week prior to the murder. However, the statement was introduced to show that Rob did not have the shotgun, inferring that it was still in Brenda's control. She also. They're trying to get hearsay. They're saying something's hearsay and they don't want it in Rob's statement to Ron that Brenda finally found someone to kill him after the break line thing, and it was James Eats that too, this James Pavak guy. The statement was made just shortly after Rob had moved out of the house. Okay. It's before the break lines. The statement's clearly a statement showing Rob's state of mind at the time. And the court has ruled such antecedent declarations by a decedent are admissible in a homicide case to show the decedent state of mind toward the defendant or to supply motive for the killing. Those reasons only, and it falls into that exception range. Testimony showing ill feeling, threats or similar conduct by one spouse toward another in a marital homicide case is relevant, and statements by the deceased expressing fear of a spouse are admissible under the state of mind exception to the hearsay rule. That's some legal shit for you people out there. We give you all sorts of shit here. We give you crazy stories, we give you groundhog for breakfast. We give you dick jokes, but we also give you insanely detailed legal fucking nuances. Crazy. Our show is fucking weird, Jimmy. It's a weird show.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's very specific.

[James Petregallo]

We've had a lot of lawyers tell us nobody gets into the legal shit like we do. And they love it and all that stuff. And then people are like, nobody gets into the crazy fucking trash shit like you guys. What weird things there. So also the statements to insurance people, Rob's belief that Brendan James tried to kill him by cutting the brake lines to his car, Those are. Those that would be inadmissible. But the tape statements were introduced through Prudential employees about that. So after the evidence was introduced to show Rob's state of mind, his fear of Brenda, and the motive for the Killing the insurance money. That's what they do there. The conversations Rob had with the insurance company were introduced to show why Brenda had motive to kill Rob. He was trying to keep Brenda from being the primary beneficiary to his life insurance. The conversation shows why he would change the beneficiary to his brother. The phone calls were also introduced to show why the insurance company would not change the beneficiary over the phone. At Brenda's request. Increasing her anger and resentment of Rob, she tried to change it back on her own. You can't change the fucking thing on somebody else's after they took you off of it. That's crazy. Wow. One of Brenda's main complaints, there's a testimony of attorney Craig Box. Rob Andrew hired Box to represent him in the divorce proceedings. Box testified that Andrew told him about a series of calls from Brenda and James which led him to believe that they were responsible for, from the brake line incident, attempts on his life. Meaning the I read it in the newspaper and all that kind of shit here. So the statement supported the conspiracy charge by showing when an agreement may have been consummated. They also support the theory that the motive for murder was for insurance money. So they also talk about the tape recordings of Jane James trying to change the ownership of the insurance policy with Prudential. His threats toward Rob and statements he made concerning Brenda's request that he kill Rob were all properly admitted. The same can be said of other statements Rob made to others about the trouble he was having changing the beneficiary of the policy, which he was telling everybody they had. People testified. Yeah, he told me he was trying. They said the remainder of the statements Rob made to others about being kicked out of the house, Brenda hiding money. Rob statement regarding Brenda's belief that he was having a homosexual affair.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, come on.

[James Petregallo]

You must be gay because I fuck all your friends. That makes sense. His statements about Brenda's affair with Nunley and Rob's statements regarding the changing of the locks and Brenda's refusal to let him see the children. All of that there was also let in. Now, Rick Nunley, he testifies saying, brenda called me from jail when she was arrested, not only from Mexico, but from fucking jail, too. Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Imagine in that.

[James Petregallo]

Now, evidence of their sexual affair was limited to one question. You know, did you have a sexual affair? Yes. That was it. The evidence of the sexual affair between them was remote. Its significance was a minimal part of the relationship. For this purpose, James Higgins here testifies also because she's told Nunley and James Higgins that she hates Rob.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And she wishes he was dead. So that's interesting. So they're basically trying to show that James was just the latest guy that she got in here and told that she hated her husband. She was basically just looking for a guy who would eventually kill her husband, basically. So the evidence of her affairs proved motive and intent, and that's how that went. Now, Brenda argues that her statements to police were the result of custodial interrogation. Thus their introduction was unconstitutional because she had not been advised of her Miranda rights. Oh, because they say she wasn't a suspect. And they make a point to tell her she's not a suspect. But then they start asking suspect questions, and they still didn't Mirandize her. Luckily for her, luckily for the prosecution, she didn't say shit to have it be. That's not the crux of their case. She didn't really say much anyway. She said stuff she had already told them 10 times. So here's more stuff that doesn't look great. Other evidence included testimony that Brenda had come on to. A neighbor said that Brenda had come on to his two. Their two sons, adult sons, when they were building a deck. Not the kids. This is the adults. Now, somebody's testimony that she was dressed provocatively. What? This is David Ostro. This is the hoochie, quote guy. When they went out to dinner together. This was only six to eight weeks before the murder. The hoochie comment there. So an inappropriate talk about a trip to Mexico as well. She was talking about Mexico. Ron stumps a testimony that Brenda changed her hair color after learning what color Ron liked and what color he himself liked. Like her husband's best friend. And David Head's testimony about Brenda threatening to kill him. That's the plumber. Additional evidence included the guy, the funeral guy, the pastor, the testimony about Brenda's demeanor while making the funeral arrangements and then not showing up for the funeral. Also, one of her friends talking about Brenda bragging about hiding money. Testimony regarding Brenda's attempt to influence the children with a puppy. She got it. Two days. She's like, your dad's gonna be dead. You're gonna need something. You're gonna need a puppy. Gentle.

[Jimmy Wissman]

For the murder. That's coming up.

[James Petregallo]

Hang on to that for later. You're gonna need that in about two days. Trust me. Jana Larson's testimony that she told her father James, that she thought Brenda lied when she told him she had not slept with any other men other than her husband and James. Like, recently, obviously in the past. Testimony that James told his daughter that the Andrew children were all trained and would not tell of the affair between he and Brenda. She made her kids fucking keep the secret. That's gross, man. Evidence of consisting of a tape recording of conversations between Brenda and Rob recorded the days before the murder. These recordings included conversations between Tricity and Rob. Brenda. Next, also they talk about evidence that the prosecution introduces two Agatha Christie mystery books that Brenda had, which ones in Mexico with her, like entitled Murder is Easy and Sparkling Cyanide.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I would say it's not very easy at all for you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You lying bitch, Agatha Christie. You lied to me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You blew it.

[James Petregallo]

Also, there's a birthday card from James to Brenda. Photographs of Brenda, James and the children taken on a trip while on a trip to Six Flags Over Texas. They're supposed to stop there. Evidence of James infatuation with Brenda. And finally, the contents of Brenda's luggage, including her thong underwear. They're gonna make a big deal out of that shit because this is 2001, so Cisco is singing that shit right now. That shit is out there. The ladies are putting thongs on. Fucking UTIs be damned. Let's do it. All of this evidence, or yeast infections, Actually, all this evidence was introduced to show that the extent and the nature of the relationship between James and Brenda and their intentions of fleeing to Mexico, you know, not as a grieving widow, but as a free fugitive living large on a Mexico beach with 800 grand. Plenty of money there that'll stretch in Mexico. Oh, yeah, you can make that work for a long time there. Now, the prosecutor, Galen Geiger. Yes, Gay land Geiger. Like a Geiger counter hauling a suitcase toward the jury box from which he took out a pair of the thong underwear, waved them in front of the jury. I was just gonna say he spun them around like her coming home from the grocery store and then said, this thong is what we found in the suitcase. It's been introduced into evidence. The grieving widow packs this to run off with her boyfriend. The grieving widow packs this and pulls out a black thong and a red thong to go sleep in a hotel room with her children and her boyfriend. The grieving widow packs this and pulls out a lacy bra in her appropriate act of grief. Now you still need bras and underwear, no matter how sad you are.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sorry your old lady's so uptight, Galen.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. She's not wearing fucking bloomers, but, you know, what do we want here? Sorry. She's a fucking party. Not only did the prosecution suggest that Brenda was a sex crazed adulteress. They also argued that Brenda was a bad mother who, you know, if you convicted her and executed her, would benefit her children if you got rid of her, they said. Would a good mother allow her children to read murder mysteries with their father laying in his grave? Would a good mother take them out of school and have them eat tuna fish and wash dishes in a pot and live on the beach? Live like a beach hobo? I mean, I guess so at this point. He then says two words here that are going to come back to haunt the prosecution later. He calls her a quote, slut puppy. I don't know what that even is. A slut puppy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is that a play on slush puppy? I don't know what he's doing.

[James Petregallo]

You whore kitten. Yeah, you gank duckling bitch.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Trying to say sick puppy, but also slut puppy. Slut puppy. I don't know. That sounds great.

[James Petregallo]

That is wild.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Is it because she got him a puppy and she's a slut?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know what he's doing.

[James Petregallo]

Is that puppy a slut puppy? That's what you buy someone. I don't know what that is. I don't think the word slut should probably come up in the trial of. I don't think I should come up at all here. That's probably beside the fact. I would say, how about a loose, nice woman? Yeah, how about a friendly gal? Now, during deliberations here, there's a problem, a problem that causes the defense attorney to ask for a mistrial because the jury had to leave and go sit outside on the sidewalk for a little while because there's a gas leak and an evacuation. In the courtroom during deliberation, the jury had been deliberating more than an hour when the work crew outside hit a 3 inch natural gas line near the northwest part of the courthouse.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's a big one.

[James Petregallo]

That's a biggie there. That's a big fucking line. The jury was taken across the street on the southeast side of the building under guard by Oklahoma county sheriff's deputies. They weren't just. They didn't say go to subway and mingle. They just, you know, the leak was stopped and the jury resumed its work after about 15 minutes. And they said we should have a mistrial for that. They had to go out, they had to go outside. It's a seven man, five woman jury and they deliberate for about seven hours over two days before they come to a verdict here. They find her guilty of murder and conspiracy. Now in sentencing, they're asking for the death penalty and they say she deserves the death penalty for things that are. The problem is some of the arguments are for things that aren't counted as aggravating circumstances. You have to. The only things you can present are things that are aggravators. You can't just say they're kind of a dick so you should kill them. That's clouding the issue at that point. So they argued that she killed Rob because she wanted the money, she wanted the custody of the children. The prosecutor also said that she deserved the death penalty for the way she treated Rob after he had forgiven her time and time again. Now there's no objection from the defense for any of this shit. Um, so that makes sense. The prosecution, they, they're going to claim that the prosecution, prosecution was intentionally misleading the jury by pointing out to them that Tricity Andrew did not beg for her mother's life. She went on the stand. Did she say, please don't kill my mother during sentencing? No. So, yeah, the defense counsel had planned and had informed the court that he intended to ask Tricity if she wanted her mother to get the death penalty. But then the defense attorney never asked that question, possibly due to the fact that Tricity was having an emotional time on the stand and it was really kind of beaten on her too much here. So then they also attacked the fact that the defense used Brenda's 15 year old niece to ask to spare Brenda's life by and then told the jury, would you put your 15 year old niece on the stand to do that? I wouldn't. So yeah. The defense calls these low blows here. Now Brenda here in her defense here, she the prosecutor. I'm sorry, the prosecutor says Rob Andrews parents would like to visit him in prison. The only place they can visit him is in a grave. Brenda has many relatives who would visit her in prison if given the opportunity. So you should kill her. Basically the defense attorney said, quote, you have got children who've already lost their father and now the only parent they have left is mommy. Now, I am assuming them or some family member would make the argument to the jury. Why deprive the children with the right to have at least one parent even though she's in prison. Why leave them parentless? It's just pointless. Also mitigating evidence as follows. She had no history of prior criminal activity, has never committed acts of violence in the past, was considered a good, a good mother who loves her children very much. Duh. The death penalty would deprive Tricity and Parker of their only living parent. She has a family who loves and values her life. She has many relatives who would visit her in prison if given the opportunity. Was a kind, giving neighbor and friend. Has an education and might be able to help other inmates. Was a dedicated employee who worked hard. Had been a model inmate since being incarcerated in county jail and has always been active in school and church activities.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She didn't help.

[James Petregallo]

So help she said, shoo me in the arm. So she says, quote, I plan to fight for my freedom to the end. And the end is neither execution nor imprisonment. It is the complete vindication of my name. God knows my heart and he will deliver me out of this situation. And the judge says, you ma'am, may fuck off. Death penalty.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Keep on keeping on. Wow. Yeah. They gave her the jury record. This is. The jury recommends it and then the judge gives it. So that's that. The jury voted for death for her, which is rare. She literally the only woman on Oklahoma death row, is that right? Yep, only one, Just her. So she says, quote, the verdict which sentenced me to the death penalty is an egregious miscarriage of justice. I'm an innocent woman, wrongfully convicted. That's right. She said, I love my children dearly and I'm a loving and gentle and compassionate mother. I noticed the supposed God fearing people who celebrated my death sentence and I see that as human sickness. Oh, you're judging people morally now? Shut up. You're a murderer. I agree with you. But I never killed anybody. So you know what I'm saying? I can say that. You can't.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're dancing on my grave. Well, I mean, fucking ridiculous.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's the point. And tried to get money for it. So the district attorney said that he wasn't surprised by Brenda's comments. She district attorney said, Ms. Andrew has shown absolutely no remorse for her criminal actions from day one. It certainly doesn't surprise me that she continues to show no remorse after being found guilty of murder. And the other da, Fern Smith, said the fact that she said the jury was wrong in what they did, that it wasn't based on the evidence that her conviction was egregious, was disrespectful to the court and the jury. Now she is the only person on death row, which means she's in solitary. There's nobody else there. It's just her.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

She's the only one sitting there. Yeah, that's it. So Brenda appeals obviously based on. I'm just going to go over the factors. I'm not going to go over what they are. Change of venue. She said they refused to do that. Hearsay evidence. That's why I was saying that. Hearsay exception before. That's the hearsay evidence. The brake lines cut. Yeah. Well, she said that James asked his daughter to call Rob to tell him that he needed to come to Norman to pick Brenda up at the hospital. It's an obvious attempt to get Rob to drive some distance with faulty brake lines. Brenda claims there was insufficient evidence linking her to this incident. So they also talk about her other affairs. She cites the Agatha Christie thing. That was inflammatory. The main thing though is the thong and the slut puppy. That's the big one. That's a tough one here. Also saying newly discovered evidence is Theresa. It's not. Has nothing to do with the actual murder. Theresa Sullivan, the one who said she wasn't getting anything. The amount of the south here. Actually she got a new sentence after that and allowed her to be released five months after testifying. Even though she had 22 months left on her sentence. The sentence also after reviewing the entire record, there's trying to get the sentence. She's saying she was sentenced to death because of an arbitrary factor. Passion or prejudice. Or prejudice based on slut puppy and things like that. So they find the Supreme Court or the court here says we find that there was sufficient evidence to support the finding of statutory aggravating circumstances as of a heinous, atrocious or cruel. Yeah, Fuck off. In other words.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

No. 2017, the James is appealing and a three judge panel in a two to one ruling overturn his death sentence.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

On the grounds the state failed to prove the shooting death of Rob was especially heinous, atrocious or cruel. I think that's in the eye of the beholder, man. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Was murdered.

[James Petregallo]

What's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What's not CRUEL about that?

[James Petregallo]

2019, though, the full 10th Circuit Court of Appeals voted 10 to 3 to overturn the three judge panel and put his ass back on death row.

[Jimmy Wissman]

10 to 3. That's much bigger.

[James Petregallo]

Much bigger. February 2020. Brenda's moved to gen pop.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Where according to her lawyer, she's doing great. She got a job. She joined a quilting circle.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

Oh boy. And she writes slut puppy on a big, big blanket. In January, two days after her attorneys filed the writ with the Supreme Court, she was returned to solitary given no reason. They said we were gonna let you fuck around. 2023, Brenda's federal appeals court here thing on federal appeals court the judges uphold her ruling despite the defense claiming an unfair trial and irrelevant information about her sex life and gender stereotypes. June 11, 2024. Supposed to be James's execution day, but Oklahoma Attorney General Drummond has requested that several of the upcoming scheduled executions be rescheduled to allow more time between them. They're currently understaffed and preparing for an execution is time intensive. So he's. He hasn't received a new execution date yet, so he's just being delayed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's the judges or the. What? The mayor, the governor. The governor's first name is Gatner.

[James Petregallo]

The Attorney General. Oklahoma Attorney General. G E N T N E R. Very German. I think that is finally. January 22, 2025.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

The Supreme Court of the United States. Yes. According to this decision, says that the prosecution in Brenda's case, quote, elicited testimony about Andrew sexual partners reaching back two decades, about the outfit she wore to dinner or during grocery runs, about the underwear she packed for vacation, and about how often she had sex in her car. The prosecutor also displayed her thong underwear to jurors while urging them to convict her of capital murder and calling her a slut. Puppy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not good.

[James Petregallo]

They said that the argument here, they say this violated Paine vs Tennessee, a 1991 decision in which the Supreme Court made clear that the Due Process clause provides relief when evidence is introduced that is so unduly prejudicial that it renders the trial fundamentally unfair. A 10th Circuit Court of Appeals decided that. That that pain exception did not qualify as clearly established precedent. But the Supreme Court disagrees and said that was wrong. Due process protects defendants from the introduction of evidence so prejudicial as to affect the fundamental fairness of their trials. The U.S. supreme Court grants her relief and quashes her death sentence.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So commutes it.

[James Petregallo]

I think they have to do either a resentence or a commution here. We're not sure. This just happened like two months ago. The court ordered the federal appeals court to assess whether the irrelevant evidence about her demeanor as a woman deprived her of a fundamentally fair trial. That was a 7 to 2 decision, by the way, on that one. I'll give you a guess of one of the dissenters. I'll give you one hint. Brenda probably had a pube on her Coke can at the end of it. There. There is a site, savebrendaandrew.org there's all these saved Brendas, really. This has become a cause for like. But if you look at the narrative now, they completely take out of it that she's A murderer. Yeah, because like they didn't call James a slut puppy, but James is still on death row because he fucking killed somebody. Yeah, they're acting like now. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot. Which neither do I, but there's a lot of. A lot of sites and a lot of people who think that she's should be just innocent because they called her slut in court. It's like they were gonna. Yeah, they're gonna convict her whether she was a slut or not. They're gonna convict her based on the evidence that had no. Nothing to do with it. Now it probably was inflammatory totem though to an Oklahoma City jury to all that. It could have very well been inflammatory. At least they think so. So either way, I don't think she's getting out anytime soon.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So, I mean, I think she 100% did it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Oh, she absolutely did it. Yeah. So there you go. Everybody there is will say, enid, Oklahoma. Even though it's not. There you go. Hope you enjoyed that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Or somebody just blow everybody and then it gets washed because.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, well, only if they bring it up, though. Only. Otherwise you just got a bad taste in your mouth for no reason. If you enjoy the show, tell everyone about it. Get on whatever app you're on. Please give us five stars. It helps so fucking much. It takes 20 seconds. It takes so long to put these shows together. So please, please do that. Also, head over to shutupandgivemerder.com Tickets for live shows, baby. 4:20 virtual live show Saturday, April 19th. Just like a regular live show, except you're in your living room. We got costumes, weed, the screen, pictures, everything. Can't wait for it. Also tickets to the regular live shows. We have May in Chicago. Get your tickets right this goddamn instant for that one, please. St. Louis is sold out the night before, so don't find yourself in the same place that many St. Louisiana St. Louisians are finding themselves. So do that. Get in there. Shut upandgivemerder.com follow us on social media. Smalltownmurder on Instagram, small town pot on Facebook. Patreon.com crimeinsports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You are going to get so much stuff. Hundreds of back episodes immediately upon subscription of bonus things you've never heard before. And there's so much good stuff. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder. And God damn it, you take them all. Just take them. You got it. This week for crime and sports. We're gonna talk about the Spanish Paralympic team that was not handicapped or I'm disabled or whatever in any way, shape or form. And some other little weird scams in sports. American Nightmare. It's a documentary on Netflix and it's probably the craziest story I've ever heard. They thought these people were faking a kidnapping a la Sherry Papini. They called these people the gone girl people because they thought it was that. And it's a whole other thing, man. It is.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They've compared that to so many things, and the only one it has been is Sherry Pavini. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So it's crazy. So there you go. There is that patreon.com crime and sports. Plus, you get a shout out at the end of the show, which happens right now. Jimmy hit me with the names of the people who would never, ever call us slut. Puppies in court.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This week's executive producer, Andrea Fellows, Jill Boyd and her daughter, Jocelyn.

[James Petregallo]

Happy birthday, Jim.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Jocelyn.

[James Petregallo]

Happy birthday, Jocelyn. But happy birthday to you.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I hope it's a great day. Kyle Norweg. See you in D.C. kyle. That's gonna be great, Kyle. Why do I feel like he lives far? Actually, no, I think he's up there. It doesn't matter. Kyle, you're terrific. Can't wait.

[James Petregallo]

Kyle, we love you. Damn it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Also, Pat McCroch, James. I'm positive that's really their first name.

[James Petregallo]

Back again, old Pat McCroch.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, John McCullough, Janice Hill, Scarlett Horbeast III, Danielle Tish, Tim Kaine, Kelsey. Probably not that one.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's the senator from.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That would be amazing.

[James Petregallo]

I'm sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Kelsey Abbey. Peter's brother. Mark McNeely. Laura Gordon.

[James Petregallo]

He felt Mike's punch. It was so hard.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Alyssa Rockenback, Felicia Barnes. Sarah with no last name. Michelle Almeida. Ryan McClellan, Doug Kozak, Christine Kober, Dina W. David Shaddy Kalyn, Chuckery. Gina Taylor. The the other Jeff. Jeffrey Lebowski. James Not. Oh, not the one. The other dude, but the other one. Fiona Fiala. Max Newbold. Crystal Martinez. Kylie Hollis. Adam Hauser. Melissa Victoria, Doug Rose. Grace Hunt. Tracy Thumb Or Tom. Probably Tom. Right? Betty and Eddie. Both of them. Betty is the more important one, obviously. Molly Ellis. Kurt Jacobson. Patty Nelson. Brittany McClure. I'm knitting right now. Beaksa. Beaks. B, E E, K A Beaksa with no last name. Emily with no last name. Whitney. Amakri. Amakri. Benjo. Benji. Benji. 25. 25. Or is it Ben? Joe. I Don't know. This could have been. Who knows? Only flans, James.

[James Petregallo]

Only flan. Yeah, flan. The desserts.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's what it is. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Rachel would know. Last name Jay Jones. Probably Jenny from the TV show. She was wonderful. Actually, she wasn't. From what I'm told, she was a monster.

[James Petregallo]

She was a comic, you know. She was a nightmare.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, she was a pain in the.

[James Petregallo]

You know, She's a horrible person. She's a comic who had to go into talk shows. Bitter.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And hire some random dude that fucked everybody. Wasn't that true? I don't.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. I just know that there was the. She had. The guy got killed on her from her show because she brought the gay guy on to say she had a crush. He had a crush on some guy. Yeah. That wasn't cool.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Cindy Labonte. Jasmine with no last name. J.R. henry. Hugh Garden. What is this? Amy Johnson. Calista Milligan. Samantha Crouch. Shawna Negus. Oh, you better save that one. Right. Claudia McKay. McLeod. Caitlin Bradbury. Andrea with no last name. Rachel Hollabaugh. Hollabaugh. Courtney Newby. Tammy Hartwig. Kim Samurtano. Almost relation. Not quite.

[James Petregallo]

Oh. De Bruno.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Mara Hempel. Madison Laustra. Carly Yu. John Donnell. Lalani. Lalani Zwaga. David Thompson. Wesley Larson. Patricia Campbell Poe. Heather Hang. Mike Greer. Christina Janelle. Nick Dish. April Lee. Heather. Heather Feek. Carolina Nunez. Pacheco Meredith Ivy. To Goofy. To Goofy. Focker James. I don't think that's.

[James Petregallo]

I think you think we're well off base on that one.

[Jimmy Wissman]

A real name. Rebecca Gardner. Brittany Holyfield. Holy Field. Holy and with an eye. God damn it, Brittany. There's lots of money on the other one, Kim.

[James Petregallo]

Rumple pissed all that away, did he? Oh, yeah, probably. He built a house the size of a town. It all didn't even.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Didn't even buy a new ear. Sean Buck. Cat Hollow. Hollabagoo. Hollabagoo.

[James Petregallo]

Holy wow.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Emmy Panico. Kimmy Quacket. Quacker. Quackenbush. Oh, boy. Kika L. Caitlin Nicole. Wade Huggins. Jeffrey Robinson. Benjamin Sanders. Ashley Tarango. James Le Bensky. Jennifer Lacombe. Tabitha with. Tabitha with no last name. Addie. Kristen would know. Oh, that is the last name. T. Smith. Susan Slagle. Jamie Hoffton. Michael. Joan. Victor. Oh, John. That's John.

[James Petregallo]

James.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's how you spell John.

[James Petregallo]

It's J. O, H, N. Is it Joe?

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the. Victor Garcia.

[James Petregallo]

Joan.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Her name is Joan now. Tanya. Golly. Royal with no last name. Caja Lake Christopher Andrade. Jay Jones. Another one. Jesus. Alicia with no last name. Jacob with no last name. Sarah with no last name. Random Kennedy. Scary Hendrick. Elite for Jimmy. Pkm. Mst. What is that? What? I don't know what that is. PKM Master, I don't know what you're doing, but you're for me or him. Alex Harry Gay.

[James Petregallo]

Awesome.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That. I hope that's not some like BBC.

[James Petregallo]

Like a coded death threat. Maybe that's what I automatically go to.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Get either of us.

[James Petregallo]

That's where I go.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Carrie Gage, Matt Herkey, Joe Nasternak. Alex Z. I think I said that. Joe. Nope. J. Munna. Ash. B. Debbie with no last name. Carol Kurvet. Kirchevag Kercheval. Eden McElwinney. Tasha with no last name. Brittany Jacobson. Dave F. Vivian Sousa. Vivianne Souza. Lori Smith. Janice Clark. And all of our patrons. You guys know you're the best.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you. Thank you so much everybody. You fantastic, wonderful, just amazing bastards. We love you so much. Thanks for all that you do for us and we just can't thank you enough. Keep hanging out with us. Keep coming back. You want to follow us on social media? Shut upandgivemerder.com has drop down menus that'll take you anywhere you want to be in the world. There you go. That said. No, not that. That is. That's the other one. Until next week everybody. It's been our pleasure by if you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey in the early hours of December 4, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world and the suspect he has been identified as. As Luigi Nicholas Mangioni became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was targeted, premeditated. Admit to sow terror. I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi. Produced by Law and Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation. We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever. He's awoken the people to a true issue. Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our healthcare system. Listen to law and crimes Luigi. Exclusively on Wondery. You can join Wondery on the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.