A Less Than Genius Murder Plot - Gulfport, Mississippi

Summary

---

Small Town Murder - "A Less Than Genius Murder Plot"

Episode Date: July 30, 2026
Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Location: Gulfport, Mississippi

---

Overview

This episode dives into a notorious 1976 crime in Gulfport, Mississippi, where a desperate ex-military man, Richard Gerald Jordan, kidnaps and murders the wife of a local bank executive. The hosts combine deep research with their signature dark humor to dissect the case’s messy plot, flawed execution, and the decades-long legal wrangling that followed.

---

Main Theme

• The Crime: A clumsy and ultimately tragic kidnapping-for-ransom attempt that led to the murder of Edwina Martyr.
• Host Approach: Comedic but respectful, mocking the perpetrator’s stupidity, the era’s social mores, and systemic failings, while remaining empathetic toward the victim.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Gulfport, Mississippi

• Geography & Demographics:
  • Coastal town, hit hard by Hurricane Katrina ($300M+ in damage).
  • Tourist vibes, high property crime, but violent crime under national average.
  • Mix of mud, casinos, and what Jimmie calls “the last bastion of Southern sun” ([13:47]).
• Local Color:
  • Diverse civic activities (car shows, “Cruising the Coast”).
  • Real estate rundown ranged from $38K “true blank slate” houses to $2.49M mansions on the beach. ([16:47])
• User Reviews:
  “Gulfport, Mississippi is for people who's looking to go to jail.”
  – Anonymous Reviewer ([09:53])

The Perpetrator: Richard Gerald Jordan

• Background:
  • Adopted, church-going Mississippi boy; claims a genius IQ (145) ([31:28]).
  • Army helicopter gunner in Vietnam (33 months in combat), trauma/PTSD factors.
  • Repeated forgery crimes, embezzlement from a fertilizer plant ($43,000 in 1970s money).
  • Habitual liar and conman, proportionately high opinion of himself, but always in debt ([45:47]).
• Criminal Escalation:
  When all else failed, Jordan plotted a kidnapping.
  “By age 30 here, he's an unemployed farmer, fertilizer plant manager, former shipyard worker, three Vietnam tour, combat vet with some PTSD issues, as he said. He's a self described marksman... So then he decides he is fucked. He's backed into a corner.”
  — James ([47:47])

The Victims: The Martyr Family

• Edwina Martyr:
  Devoted wife and mother, active in church, local charities, classic “June Cleaver” archetype.
• Charles “Chuck” Martyr:
  Banker, well-liked, strict; family man with two sons ([68:46]). Country club, yacht club, tennis, and a beachside lifestyle—upper middle-class setting.
• Personal Portrait:
  “She was always smiling, always pleasant. She always had the most radiant smile and just made you feel good to be around her.”
  — Neighbor ([123:28])

The Crime: "A Comedy of Errors"

Planning (Or Lack Thereof)

• Jordan picks his target via a random “who’s important at the bank?” phone call ([54:15]).
• Goes to the Martyr home disguised with a suit, clipboard, and a makeshift concealed pistol ([77:04]).
• Gimmicky entry: Claims to be from the electric company, supposedly checking circuit breakers ([78:44]).

Kidnapping & Murder

• Jordan abducts Edwina at gunpoint while her 3-year-old son sleeps upstairs.
• His main “planning” consists of making her drive, leaving a folder with fingerprints, and improvising.
• Takes her to a remote logging road, claims he meant only to scare her; she ends up dead—shot in the back of the head ([106:21]).
• His absurd “defense”:
  “I shot into the air, and then it must have come down and hit her in the back of the head.”
  — Jordan ([111:06])
• State’s evidence easily disproves his statements; victim was executed, face-down, hands behind her back.

Ransom Calls

• Even after Edwina’s death, Jordan executes a clumsy ransom plot, demanding $50,000 (over $290K today) ([84:02]).
• Drawn-out phone negotiations with Chuck Martyr, coached by the FBI, who push Chuck to “get tough” ([88:05]).
• Jordan tests police/FBI response, sets up a “jacket drop” on the highway, stays paranoid and improvisational ([86:17]).
• Almost comically clumsy getaways (pawn shop trades, disguise as “Santa” in a red jumpsuit, cab ride directly into a roadblock) ([100:04]–[102:31]).

Jordan's Mental State & Excuses

• Claims Vietnam trauma, sociopathy—shifts stories repeatedly.
• At times, blames the FBI for making him “nervous,” later invents a mysterious accomplice:
  “If I go to that gas chamber, the name will probably go with me. It's more or less. It's more or less a point of honor to me.”
  — Jordan ([158:56])
• Shrugs off execution as merely “disappointing,” claims to have “discovered” he opposes the death penalty ([160:14]).

Legal Aftermath:

Decades of Appeals & Retrials

• Five Trials/Resentencings:
  Repeated Supreme Court reversals over jury procedures, sentencing laws, mitigation evidence.
• Death Penalty:
  • Three times convicted and sentenced to death, repeatedly overturned for technical or procedural reasons ([153:46]).
  • Eventually cut a deal for life without parole—then violated the deal and reopened appeals, putting himself back on death row ([176:55]–[178:33]).
  • Case is cited in legal scholarship as an infamous study in never-ending capital litigation.

Notoriety & Impact

• Used by the FBI in training materials for kidnapping response.
• Prosecutor and victim’s family haunted by decades of legal limbo.
• Mississippi’s messy death penalty system laid bare.

Victim Impact & Community Fallout

• The Martyr family endured decades of re-traumatization through repeated sentencing and appeals ([155:43]).
• Community shaken; previously trusting, they reconsidered safety, discussed arming themselves, and grieved the randomness of the crime ([127:37]).
• Chuck Martyr’s stance:
  “I would be perfectly happy with him behind bars if I knew he would spend the rest of his life there. And that's a very reasonable approach to it. I'm not bloodthirsty. I just don't want him out on the street doing this to other people.”
  ([165:07])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the murder plot:
  “This is a man with zero… Casey Anthony’s hallway. His whole life is Casey pressed up against the fucking brick at the end of the hallway. And he's still walking, though, like in a video game, when your character just keeps going.”
  – James ([114:02])

• Jordan’s defense (and absurdity of his claims):
  “I shot into the air, and then it… it came down.”
  – Jordan ([111:06])

  “He and Lee Harvey shop in the same magic bullet store.”
  – Jimmie ([111:10])

• On the endless appeals:
  “He is losing so hard.”
  – Jimmie ([171:00])

• On the repeated legal process:
  “Ri Ree Ree sentencing. Is it Riri Ree or Riri Ree Ree? I'm not sure. It's three Rees. I think it's three Rees.”
  – James ([178:32])

• Dark Comedy at Execution:
  “If you have to say, I can't tell you where I got the drugs, then have to have a guy come in in a mask and dark sunglasses to perform it. You're doing something that is not… It's untoward.”
  – James ([188:17])

• Jordan on his own punishment:
  “Of course, I'd be disappointed, to say the least.”
  – Jordan ([160:14])

• On Death Penalty as Deterrent:
  “People who think that way are giving criminals too much credit for intelligence.”
  – Jordan ([161:38])

---

Important Timestamps

• [05:00] Location/history of Gulfport, Mississippi
• [22:56] Introduction of Richard Jordan, early life
• [31:28] Jordan’s claimed high IQ
• [33:15] Vietnam combat service & traumatic event
• [41:22] Fired/fertilizer plant embezzlement ($43K)
• [47:47] At age 30, life falling apart, plans crime
• [54:15] Random targeting of the Martyr family
• [78:44] Entry into Martyr home (“electric company” ruse)
• [84:02] Ransom calls to Chuck Martyr
• [106:21] Discovery of Edwina’s body—execution-style murder
• [111:06] Jordan’s “warning shot” excuse
• [153:46] Multiple convictions and appeals, legal procedural history
• [160:14] Jordan’s personal attitude about possible execution
• [165:07] Chuck Martyr’s position on punishment
• [171:00] More retrials and failed negotiations
• [188:17] Execution and final statements

---

Episode Tone & Style

Hosts balance detailed, serious crime analysis with irreverent, sometimes absurd humor—primarily targeting the criminal, the process, and the era, but never the victim. Their conversational riffs and relatable asides (“Casey Anthony’s hallway”, reviews of Gulfport, riffs about mansions getting swept away, etc.) add levity without trivializing the gravity of the crime.

---

Takeaways

• This case stands out for its sheer incompetence and senselessness—the “less than genius” murder plot is aptly named.
• The relentless legal saga highlights shortcomings of the criminal justice and capital punishment systems.
• The community’s shock—at random violence penetrating a safe, privileged enclave—echoes through the decades.
• Above all, the show both entertains and memorializes the real human costs of such crimes and the long, winding road to something resembling resolution.

---

Final Word:
A grim story tinged with absurdity, delivered with empathy and scathing wit. The ultimate lesson: stupidity and desperation, left unchecked, can destroy lives and haunt communities for generations.
“There you go. If you like that story, get on whatever app you are listening to. Give us five stars. Netflix. Thumbs up, fuckers.”
— James ([189:04])

Transcript

[James Petragallo]

This week in Gulfport, Mississippi, it's a race to find a woman who was snatched from her home before it's too late, as her husband takes ransom calls and the police set up roadblocks everywhere. But will any of it matter? Or will this seemingly bloodthirsty kidnapper jump right to murder if he gets impatient? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yay.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[James Petragallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today. You did it. An absolutely crazy edition of Small Town Murder. As usual, this one is just, it's wild stuff. I love when it's like a moment by moment narrative. That's fun stuff. So we're gonna get into all of and more. First though, definitely head over to shut upandgivememurder.com you need to get your tickets for live shows. The live shows are amazing. It is a comedy show with a murder story. It is just like this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You have no idea what you're missing out on.

[James Petragallo]

Tons of pictures. It's amazing. We're so proud of the live shows. We can't wait for you to come out. Try at. You can come out in Milwaukee on September 18th at the Pabst. You can come to the next night at the State Theater in Minneapolis on

[Jimmy Whisman]

it's going to be amazing.

[James Petragallo]

Going to be amazing stuff. Pabst. Not a lot of tickets left there for many Milwaukee. Then we got Dallas in October. We had San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown and Boston in November. So get in there, get your tickets, shut up and give me murder.com also. All the merch and everything like that is there as well. So do that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's going to be great.

[James Petragallo]

Also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports, which we, we promise you. You don't have to like sports. We promise. You just have to like hearing us make fun of a person who completely screwed their life up and didn't have to. That's all a lot of fun. That's it. And then also your stupid opinions is just amazing. You never thought you'd want to hear what someone's deep, dark opinion of a laundromat was, but you do. For some reason. It's crazy. So check that out. Then get yourself Patreon. You need patreon. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. All you have to be is $5 a month and you get Everything. We put out every last little thing, including as soon as you subscribe, almost 400 back bonus episodes you get immediately upon subscription. You can binge that whole fe. You get new ones every other week. One crime and sports. One small town murder. And you get them all, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All of it. Sure.

[James Petragallo]

This week, which you're going to get. It is time again. I'm so excited. Love after lockup time. God damn it, everybody. It's been amazing these seasons and even if you haven't watched them, we will describe them in beautiful, colorful detail for you. So you might not even have to. But check it out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's on Peacock now. And it's.

[James Petragallo]

It's great. It's just.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thank God for Peacock.

[James Petragallo]

It's. Yes, the cock has come through for us on this one, thankfully. So we're excited for that. Goes hand in hand with the prisoner dating game and everything. So why not there. Patreon.com crimeinsports and in addition to all the stuff you get, you also get everything we put out. Crime and sports. Your stupid opinion. Small town murder. All ad free with that Patreon as well. Not bad at all. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. Can't beat it, everybody. So that said, I'll tell you what. Disclaimer time. It's a comedy show, everybody. This is a comedy show. We're comedians. We're gonna make jokes. And as you can tell by the title of the show, people are gonna die. That's how it works here. There's really no other way to do it. Now you go, well, how does that work? Pretty easily, pretty easy. There's plenty of stuff to make fun of. Plenty of stuff. That's right. Plenty of stuff to make fun of. We make fun of a small town because we're all from somewhere that deserves to be made fun of. Nobody's above that. We'll make fun of a police force that lets a murderer just go free so they can kill more. We'll make fun of murderers because why not? What elsewhat recourse do we have? I can't go down to the jail and take their commissary away. I can make fun of them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I would love to.

[James Petragallo]

That's all we can do. So that's it. And that's how it works. But the thing we don't do, or we never do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why, James?

[James Petragallo]

Because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There you have it.

[James Petragallo]

See how it works? It's pretty simple, I'll tell you. It's a pretty simple formula here. But if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, and this is super weird, maybe we're not for you, but maybe we are. What I would say is, check it out, give it a chance, and then either way, no complaining later. How's that? Because we warned you. There you go. That said, I think it's time, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petragallo]

What do you say? Let's sit back here, clear the lungs, arms to the sky. Let's all shout, Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

We're going to Mississippi today.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fuck.

[James Petragallo]

We're going completely opposite of where we were last week in the Pacific Northwest and going to the Southeast. And as southeast as you can get. Pretty much as south anyway, because it's Gulfport, Mississippi, which is on the Gulf. It is down there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The mud.

[James Petragallo]

It's a muddy one. It's a muddy one down in the Big Muddy. Here it is. This is in coastal Mississippi, obviously. Gulfport. It's about an hour and 20 to New Orleans if you go west, and about an hour 10 to Mobile, Alabama, if you go east. So that's where it is. It's about four hours and five minutes to Starkville, Mississippi. Our last Mississippi episode, episode 677, worse than murder. That was the episode where the people had gone on the Montel Williams Show. It was memorable. It was very memorable for that, I'll tell you. This is in Harrison county, area code 228, and it has a motto, a town motto. Here. Quote, anchored in excellence.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, I thought you were gonna say something about ankle deep. Because that's the mud, babe.

[James Petragallo]

I was gonna say the alternate one is anchored in shitloads of mud, but that's not as popular. Can't move. Cause we're stuck in the mud.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ankle deep. Get ankle deep in it.

[James Petragallo]

Get ankle deep in Gulfport. That's a good advertising campaign. Much better than great place to live, work and play. So Gulfport, Mississippi, had two villages that predated the founding of Gulfport here. One was Hansboro and one was Mississippi City. Okay, there you go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's too many syllables.

[James Petragallo]

That's a lot. That's a lot of syllables there, man. A lot of syllables. 8. It was founded in the 1800s along the northern bayous. Mississippi City was born out of the Mississippi City Company that was formed in 1837 to build a town to serve as Basically the little headquarters for the railroad there. So it's another one of these railroad things. But then they were like, hey, people, like, sitting by there is that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And that's what they got in Mississippi. At least be on the water.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, why not? So then they were later. There's another company later was organized, and they wanted to connect the railroad from the town of Hattiesburg to the coast. And this one guy steered away from Mississippi City because there wasn't a lot of deep water there, and selected the site of Gulfport. And the town was founded that year. Then the project went bankrupt and the town was a ghost town. This is in 1893. There was nobody here anymore. It was over. Gulfport was over. Then some Philadelphia oil tycoon purchased the company and built it all up here. So there we go. In 2005, Gulfport was hit by the eastern side of Hurricane Katrina with wind speeds of 100 miles an hour and 19ft of storm surge, which will bury your shit if you're at sea level. 9,571 houses were damaged or destroyed and completely screwed up the economy of the town. Fucked everything up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

19ft of storm surge. No matter how high your Ford is jacked up, it's covering.

[James Petragallo]

It's coming. It's coming.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

The city got over $300 million in federal aid, which it used to repair infrastructure and fix the roads and the sewers and everything that got destroyed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Basically whole town. All it cost was $300 million.

[James Petragallo]

$300 million.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The whole thing.

[James Petragallo]

Whole city. Fix it all back up again after it was destroyed. That.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Couldn't rebuild a bridge in New York.

[James Petragallo]

No, no, that couldn'. Down there. Up here, actually, I should say so. Reviews of this town. Five stars. Here we go. I mean, people make living wages. That might help, too. They're not like three guys. They picked off the fucking. They were skimming through the fucking. Through the dump sites looking for bottles and cans and said, hey, you guys want to fix some roads?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll rebuild the whole thing. About 300 million?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. 300, 310. Anywhere in there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Four buddies out here this weekend.

[James Petragallo]

We'll get it done. We always do. So five stars. Working as a healthcare professional in Gulfport has given me multiple growth opportunities as well as extracurricular activities such as a movie theater. They have a movie theater.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Big extracurriculars of the movie theater.

[James Petragallo]

Wow. The beach, car shows and shopping. Gulfport has a little bit of everything with a wide variety of restaurants. It's a tourist place. Yeah. Three stars. Gulfport is a tough Place to describe. No, it's not. But I'm gonna give it a shot. This person said, because while it is in the heart of the coast, Gulfport is troubled with unkempt neighborhoods fueled by poverty and unlivable wages. Well, there you go. I would love to see a shelter for our extensive homeless population and more resources for those living in poverty of all aspects.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I thought, nevermind.

[James Petragallo]

Who knows? One star. Gulfport, Mississippi is for people who's looking to go to jail. Who's. You could hear the person saying it. Gulfport, Mississippi is for people who's looking to go to jail. They have bars, but not enough of them close by to bar hop. That means you're drinking and driving. Or blowing your money on an Uber.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, it doesn't.

[James Petragallo]

Or blowing your money on an Uber. Just pissing it away so you don't kill people out in the streets. You know, pissing it away. Budget that as part of Jesus. Yeah. Or stay in one bar. Or budget that as part of the night or else you can't afford to go out that night. Pick one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's bullshit. I don't go out unless I go to 3, 4, and a 9.

[James Petragallo]

I gotta drive. I have to have my car. If you're single, lived in more than three other states, been outside of the country, Gulfport is not the place for you. Mississippi education, suck, period. Suck, no comma and singular suck. Mississippi education, education, suck, period. It sucks. Singular suck without the comma that really makes it gross. I'll tell you that right now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Singular suck is singular suck.

[James Petragallo]

So we can only assume so bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It can't suck. It has to just suck.

[James Petragallo]

So if this person is sniping about their education system, that is hilarious. That's beautiful irony right there is what that is. That's hilarious. Or they either. Or maybe they went to Mississippi schools and this is the result of it. Either way, if you're a couple, you might like it because the casinos are full of couples losing their money. That's what couples do once they get together. You have just an inner desire to lose all your money once you hook up with someone. Residents here, conversation sucks and is very limited. It sucks. They're limited. You can't come up with a better word than sucks for everything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It is my favorite in a review

[James Petragallo]

as a description of this word.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's fucking so perfect because you can

[James Petragallo]

tell they're so frustrated they lost their vocabulary. All they can come up with is, this place sucks. I'm just so, so mad. Sucks. You just lose it if you don't know anyone here. Forget about meeting them. Everyone here has kids. I mean everyone. So if you're a single guy like that a lady. If you're a single guy that like a lady. If you're a single guy that like a lady. That's what he's saying. Wow. And want to be with her. Be prepared to open your wallets. What does that mean? I don't know what they're talking about. It's a lot of haters here. Poverty is at its best. Even though people act as if they are wealthy here. You can Google for a house here. There's plenty. Biloxi, Gulfport and Ocean Springs are connected. Drugs are amazing to people. It shows. Yeah, drugs are amazing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You take them and you feel like they're so bad.

[James Petragallo]

He is just fucking swatting. It flies, man. He has no idea what he's doing. This guy is like shooting into everywhere. Pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. Over here, over there. He doesn't give a fuck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's not a scenario that he can think of in this town that's positive.

[James Petragallo]

Nothing. And then my favorite is the last sentence. Because it has nothing to do with Gulfport. Apparently prostitution all over the USA is high.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All over the place.

[James Petragallo]

Very expensive is what he's getting out there. Not that it's available, just that it's out of his price range. People in this town Currently there's 72,468.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

About 40,000 when the murder happened. So much smaller place. It's grown a lot here. Cause it's by the water. People like the water. More women. James.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is the last bastion of Southern sun that you can buy. And I mean, it's almost gone now. Because the secret got out that it was cheap. It's cheap because it's ankle deep in fucking mud.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. But people have definitely bought in Mobile and places like that. They have those houses on stilts on the beach that they buy. Those have become very popular. More women than men. 51.8% women. That's a lot more actually for a big place like this with population. That's a lot more. So really, that guy shouldn't have to open his wallet that much because there's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's a lot of gals.

[James Petragallo]

Way more women. And it's only 42% married, which is below the national average. He's saying everybody's got married. But the children party might be right because 29% are single with children, which is like three times the national average. So. So everybody has kids.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's great.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. At least there's somebody he doesn't want

[Jimmy Whisman]

to raise somebody else's kids.

[James Petragallo]

Guess not. Race here, 53.2% white, 36.7% black, 1.5% Asian and 5.7% Hispanic. Religion here, 50, 50 is the average normally here it's 51.2. So not that high. It's probably as low as you're gonna get for Mississippi, you know what I mean? And the highest one is Baptist, as we know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, how about that?

[James Petragallo]

Baptists are the Catholics of the South.

[Jimmy Whisman]

South as fuck.

[James Petragallo]

But there's a lot of Catholics too, because for some reason there's a lot of transplants. Well, there's also Catholicism in like New Orleans and shit was very, very. It's a very, very popular thing. So that spread to some of those coastal cities. If you go up 20 miles away from the sea, you're not gonna get any of that, but right on there. Cause tons of Italians came to New Orleans. That was one of the first places they came, or we came. I should say Jewish. Not quite gonna sing a song there. Unemployment here is a little bit high and the median household income is very low. Rest of the country it's almost 70,000. Here it's 41,250 bucks. That is really not great. Cost of living, 100 being regular. Average here it's 82.6.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not that great.

[James Petragallo]

No, the housing is the lowest. Actually. The housing. Median home cost here, $172,600, which like, you know, 20 years ago. Prices. That's right. Not too bad. So if we've convinced you. Hey, that doesn't sound too bad. I like the water. I don't mind mud. Well, we have for you the Gulfport, Mississippi real estate report. All right. Average two bedroom rental here. Actually much cheaper than the national average. 900 bucks a month, which is 3 change under the national average. House 1 is described in the listing as, quote, a true blank slate. In other words, this place is fucked up and you're gonna have to completely redo it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

True blank slate, that means fucking level it, right?

[James Petragallo]

Pretty much. It's a three bedroom, one bath, 1550 square foot house. Small lot, not big. Built in 1935 and looks like it hasn't been touched since 1945. It is a mess. The front porch roof is collapsing. No. Yeah. Inside it's just old carpet and it's not good. You need a total redo, but you can hopefully afford it. Just had a two and a half, $2,500 price cut. It is now $38,500.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It used to be 40 grand.

[James Petragallo]

Was 40 grand. They started out and they're like, ah, it's a Little High.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hilarious.

[James Petragallo]

2,500. Yeah. Off a house. You can get that knocked off a car at a dealership if you want. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The rebate.

[James Petragallo]

Wow. Here's a three bedroom, one bath, 1414 square foot house. It's a decent house, this house. It looks nice on the outside. Nothing's collapsing. Nice front porch. Inside is decent. I guess it's not terrible. It's fine. Built in 1960, so it's old. It's definitely been kept up with a little bit and refurbished. 105,000 bucks for that. Okay, not bad. Three bedrooms, 1400 square feet. And next up, you've done very well for yourself and you want to live on the shore and you're going to do it. This is on East Beach Boulevard. This house is three bedrooms, four baths. T bowl for each and every b hole and one left. Over 5,008 square feet. Big indoor pool in the backyard. You have these gates that go down to the water. It's pretty amazing. It's not bad at all. Point 0.48 acre lot too big houses next to you. $2,490,000 to live in Mississippi.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petragallo]

That's. That's insane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For half an acre. That's.

[James Petragallo]

That's insane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And you're probably paying whatever your mortgage is. It's the same price for hurricane insurance if they even insure you.

[James Petragallo]

That's the other thing. Yeah. That house could be. Be completely taken away in a swell, no problem. And then you're fucked. Things to do here. Well, besides rebuild every once in a while when the hurricanes come through. Cruising the coast.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petragallo]

30th anniversary this year. By the way of cruising the coast. Lots of entertainment. There's a lot of old car shows and things like that. It's the main cars.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They've got a little road there, a main drag that's on the coast. Like PCH in California.

[James Petragallo]

Exactly. Yeah. It's on that boulevard. So we have. Let's see here. We have. Here are the bands that are playing. Razoo R A Z Z O O. Sure. Ratsu. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Never heard of them.

[James Petragallo]

The Barlow Brothers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petragallo]

Okay. They sound. That's. You have an idea of what they're singing?

[Jimmy Whisman]

It sounds creole country.

[James Petragallo]

Sure. Yeah. Escalade past Christian. Oh, Escalade past Christian. I don't know. Scott Hinson.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Vince Vance and the Valiants.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Vince Vance and the Valiants.

[James Petragallo]

Vince Vance. That's a crazy name. Jesus Christ. Keith Burns. Okay, The Tip Tops, which sounds like a Motown group. They're bringing back a bunch of 80 year old men.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is this the guy from PBS?

[James Petragallo]

Ken Burns. Ken Burns, yeah. And he's got a brother named Rick that also made stuff. But neither of them are Keith. No, Keith, this is their other brother. Not quite as successful. My favorite here at the Edgewater Mall at 11:00am the coveted 11:00am slot at the mall. Gary Elvis Wesley will be playing. That's. It says Gary quote Elvis Wesley. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why Gary?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, I don't get it. Hip pocket. And then Na Na sha instead of Sha na na. So they just reversed it. It. It's Nanasha.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy. Do they have enough songs that you would care to see a cover band?

[James Petragallo]

I mean they must. They play their own shows for years, so they must have enough songs. But you'd have to learn all the ones that weren't on the radio.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nana Shah.

[James Petragallo]

Nanasha. Eclectic with a K where you wouldn't expect it every time. Wherever there's a K sound, it's a K. In there. We have Cool Raise with a Z. Cool Rays to five guys named Ray

[Jimmy Whisman]

probably that are just playing Ray Charles songs.

[James Petragallo]

Another coveted 11am spot. Brandy. Not that Brandy. Brandy. I. E. You can't do that. There's already a fucking Brandy. No, I won't accept it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She doesn't even play it.

[James Petragallo]

No six piece suits will be there. Six piece? Three isn't enough.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not enough. It's only a three piece suit. How many pieces are you putting on that?

[James Petragallo]

A lot more. Three more. Double. We're twice as good as regular suits. Modern El Dorados, black velvet, trigger proof. And then there is. What the hell is this? Rumble on the Gulf. I don't know what that is. I don't know if it's a fight or something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Motorcycles.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah, there you go. Rumble. There you go. I'm thinking Royal Rumble. My head's stuck in wrestling. That said, crime rate in this town, what we're interested in property crime, not surprisingly high because it's a tourist town. So every tourist town, it's high because they piss in the streets and do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We're on vacation. What's a broken window between pals?

[James Petragallo]

It's double the average. Plus I'm not gonna be here to go to court, so fuck it. Once I go home, I'm home.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm not gonna be until the cops get caught.

[James Petragallo]

And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is actually about 20% beneath the national average. So it's actually lower than the national average here with the property crime high. That said, let's talk about some murder. This is a wild ass story, man. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a wild town.

[James Petragallo]

Let's start out with a man here. Let's talk about him. Richard Gerald Jordan. Yeah, Jordan. Like Michael so Dickie Jordan over here. He's born May 25, 1946, and he's born in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. He's adopted as a baby. So we've had a lot of adoption on our shows for some reason. I don't know why. Maybe there's just more adoption out there than we realize. Maybe that's what it is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll bet that's true.

[James Petragallo]

Probably just more people than.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They don't advertise that stuff because it's generally wanting to make you. When you see a family, just. That's the family. It doesn't matter how it was formed

[James Petragallo]

when you were a kid, like all the friends you had. How many friends were adopted? I didn't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Three, four.

[James Petragallo]

Really? Yeah. Three, four adopted friends. I can't think of one that was fucking adopted. I can't think of one that was like formally adopted. I know ones that were like, his aunt's watching him because his mother's a drug addict or whatever the fuck. But it wasn't like strangers formally adopted

[Jimmy Whisman]

this bird adoption agency.

[James Petragallo]

That's. Cause all my friends are trash. And people that adopt people usually have money. There you go. That's why I figured it out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I lived in an area of Phoenix where Arcadia was just real close by. But people didn't necessarily live, you know what I mean? So they had money, but they would like not go out into Arcadia. They would stick on the other side where the white trash lived.

[James Petragallo]

Exactly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And they would send these fairly well to do adopted kids to school with us.

[James Petragallo]

Interesting. Yeah, I think there was.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, I can certainly think of two off the top of my head, but I'm sure there was more.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, I think where. I think where I grew up, they would have just looked at your application, went, you live in the village of Wappingers. You're not getting any kids. That place is a mess. You, you're.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You are not adopting children out there. You can't afford to take care of your own.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. You're not. What are you, Delav Avenue? No, that's not working right now. I'm sorry.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I grew up in a really like borderline slum, but like two miles east

[James Petragallo]

where you grew up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's not a slum.

[James Petragallo]

Say again on Shea.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, no, no. I didn't move there till way, way later. Oh, I was like 32nd street in Indian School was scum. But two miles east of there was great.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, it's. That's rich area. Yeah, that's rich.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's where fucking wonder woman lived.

[James Petragallo]

That's where it gets rich. It's where like politicians lived and shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a way better way to shop with Thrive Market.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thrive Market.com.

[James Petragallo]

absolutely. What's Thrive Market, you might ask. Well, we have an answer here. Thrive Market is a membership based online grocery. For just $5 a month you can access to curated selection of organic and non GMO brands. 90 plus dietary filters. Those are huge too. Gluten free. Boom. Everything's gone. That's great. Weekly sales, free gifts, and the peace of mind that 1000 plus ingredients are already restricted one annual fee. Priceless Peace of mind. It's great stuff. It's great stuff you're always ranting about.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Seven Sunday notes. I love to eat the. You love the good cereals, but I like these good for you cereals. I like to put seven sundaes sprinkled into it and it's so much better for me and it makes me feel better.

[James Petragallo]

That's a good idea. It's so much. And those, the ice things too. You were telling me about the.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, and Rouse. The Rouse pasta sauce is tremendous.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, and those too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God, it's such a great product.

[James Petragallo]

It's so much. They restrict a thousand plus ingredients at Thrive Market. No stressing over labels or googling every additive. I don't have time for that, do you? Nobody does. Every product is curated organic and non GMO brands vetted before they ever hit the site. 90 dietary filters means the label readings done for you already. High protein, low sugar, GLP1 friendly, gluten free, dye free and more. The in app barcode scanner. This is the coolest thing they have, by the way. Finds a healthier swap for almost anything in your pantry. You just scan it and figure it out and it's really awesome. I'm selling you like the special like the cereals and stuff like that. It'll give you like the lower sugar one. And member pricing is up to 30% off. Plus weekly sales, free gifts, price matching, free delivery on qualifying orders. All right there in your membership. At $5 a month, the membership pays for itself. Most members make it back in their first two orders. No per delivery fees, service charges or tip maths. Just one annual cost and I'm telling you, summer sales is going to equal stocking a better cart for less snacks, pantry staples and brands you already love. It's great. Like you said, Jimmy's all up in his oats here. 90 plus filters are the big deal. We filter out the gluten free stuff right there. It's awesome. That works great. And your filtered results show what fits into your household. It's a perfect time for this. You're going to love it, so you need to do it too. This is amazing here. Now is a great time to join Thrive Market. Ready to build your ultimate summer card? Join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com Smalltown Murder for $20 off your first three orders plus a free gift.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petragallo]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you how to get a much better night's sleep with Casper.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Casper.com Absolutely.

[James Petragallo]

You know it's super important to every single human being. Sleep, sleep, absolutely. And we trust our sleep to. Casper got rid of that saggy old mattress and these have. That mattress had seen better days and now I'm seeing better days with my Casper mattress. This podcast is sponsored by Casper. Casper makes reliable, high quality mattresses designed to deliver consistent, comfortable sleep night after night. That's why out of 99 mattresses, Consumer Reports named Casper's The1 Mattress as their top rated all foam mattress of 2026. That's a big deal. It's huge. You've been talking about getting a new bed. You know it. You've been kicking it around. Now is the time to do it. It's the time. With Casper's back to school sale, head to Casper.com and save 20% on the mattress. Not only that, you need, that you deserve. That's the thing. Casper's mattresses are built to be durable and long lasting. So you're not replacing your mattresses every few years. Their products are designed to wear withstand the test of time, maintaining support and comfort over the long haul. Casper has their 100 night risk free trial. So you can give Casper's mattresses a try risk free. Although with 110,000 plus five star reviews, we're pretty sure you're gonna love it. Like everybody else. They're great. I'm telling you, my sleep is much better on this Casper mattress. I feel refreshed in the morning and that's the important thing. Not waking up feeling tired and like you didn't sleep, you know that bad night, night's sleep, you don't want that. Casper has a wide range of mattresses. So whether you like it firm or soft or somewhere in between, there's something for [e-mail] and they just launched a brand new kids mattress so even your kids can get in there and have a nice, great night's sleep. Remember, the day always ends well with Casper. Right now, save up to 20% on mattresses and up to 25% on everything else. When you go to Casper.com one last time. That's C-S-P-E-R.com and save up to 20% on the mattress you deserve.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petragallo]

So he's adopted by Homer and Francis Jordan and took their name. He grew up in Petal, Mississippi, which is. We've done an episode in Petal, Mississippi, as a matter of fact, with the T, not the D. That's right. Which is across the river from Hattiesburg. And apparently all the way through school. He's got a good reputation. That's a good, good boy and a nice kid. And he's fine. His brother Robert, who I don't know if he's adopted also or if he's part of the Jordan family to begin with, but Robert said the two of them grew up together going to church and going to Sunday school, and they went to youth rallies all over the state with the Church of God and they did summer camps and conventions. And he and his brother Richard, the guy we're talking about, they both sang in the choir. And he said later on that his wife sang in the choir, too, and that Richard Jordan was an usher even in church. So he was very immersed in the church as a child. He's a smart guy. We don't know how smart he is, but he claims a specific level of IQ later on and through his life of. He says he has a 145IQ and he uses that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's the highest.

[James Petragallo]

It goes all the way up. I mean.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, does it?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it goes 140 is like considered genius level and, you know, above average is like 110, 110 to 1, whatever. Yeah, we don't know if it's true either. I mean, who knows? But that number's fine. That's a good number for him. So when he graduates from high school, pretty much immediately he's charged with check forgery. So he does some dumb shit here. And so he's looking at a forgery charge, fresh out of pedal high, looking down the barrel of a forgery charge not good. Is it bad for him?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Friends and family checks, or do we know?

[James Petragallo]

We don't know who he took the checks from or what they're forged on, but he's 18 years old. It's 1964. Everyone in the court has a flat top. Things are not going to go well for you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And a check was not what they are today.

[James Petragallo]

No, no, no, no. Check was a lot easier to forge back then. You can do whatever you want. Hand it to some. There was no electronic anything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It didn't even have a bank name on it. It just said, I'll pay you whenever.

[James Petragallo]

And then you'd find out like two weeks later that they don't have any money. And then it's like, well, now we gotta start this whole process. It's a real easy way to get shit if you had no money back then. So we don't know who brought this up, but there's an offer made. We don't know if it's the judge, if the DA and his lawyers work it out or whatever, but there's an offer made. And I think you know what the offer is because it's 1964 military, right? It is. Join the army and the charges are dropped. They used to do that. I forget all about this little thing all the time. That was a huge thing they did all the time. So he joined.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fucking A. Fucking.

[James Petragallo]

He's got nothing to do anyway.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I say you have to finish.

[James Petragallo]

Well, he's got nothing better to do anyway.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Petragallo]

That's the thing. And he doesn't realize that Vietnam is gonna be a huge deal. This is when it's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He doesn't know that's coming at all.

[James Petragallo]

There's people over there, but it's not a major war yet. It's just, just kind of. We sent advisors over and there was little things popping up, but it wasn't like there was no draft or anything yet. So 1964, he enlists in the army where he'll spend five years in the Army. Wow. Absolutely. He served in the 1st Cavalry Division. He earned multiple citations. He served three back to back tours in Vietnam.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He made it out of there every time.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. And we'll tell you what he was doing too well. The military estimates put his combat service at 33 months in combat, actually on the ground. That's a lot. That's almost three years of combat.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. That's a long time.

[James Petragallo]

That is a lot. He's a helicopter gunner.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh wow.

[James Petragallo]

He is one. If you've seen any Vietnam movie, the craziest guy who's hanging off the helicopter with an M60 shooting people, going, come on. Yeah, get some ass. Like shooting ladies in a field. That's the guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

That's this guy. Just hang out of the helicopter. Shoot anything that moves as you go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And those Hueys, those things got shot down, right?

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah. They're firing up at them. Absolutely. They got shot down. Yeah. I mean, you're also shooting, like farmers and shit, so. I mean. Yeah, I mean, it's what you were told to do. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's also an easy shot.

[James Petragallo]

That's the thing. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you're up, guns can't get you anywhere.

[James Petragallo]

No, no, no. But, yeah, they were definitely shooting rockets at them and taking down helicopters and stuff. So it's a dangerous job, I guess.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know.

[James Petragallo]

I mean, probably not as dangerous as being in the jungle, I bet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

I'd rather be above shooting than down in the shit, you know?

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's a reason Sarah Palin does that, to shoot wolves.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's probably easier. Yeah. So from 66 to 68, he's got an M60 and shooting. Shooting shit as it goes down. Since they go about a thousand feet in the air and shoot. So bullets can come back at you too, from there. So at one point, we don't know exactly what happened here, but his aircraft, his helicopter was in an area here where a US helicopter had been shot down. Yeah, so they believed. The people who got shot down said, we believe the fire came from this hut down there. There's a hut. So his team, Jordan's team, went up and basically Jordan just filled the hut full of holes. Basically just completely decimated this hut. And then they went to see if they got everybody. And of course, it's just women and children inside. No weapons, no anything, just women and children that he just.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nothing fired out of that hut ever?

[James Petragallo]

No, no. Or they didn't switched it. Who knows? But at this point, you've killed shitloads of kids and children. That's what you've done.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petragallo]

So, yeah, that's what he said. He says he was severely traumatized by this. And he'll say he never got the support that the military, they never gave him any support for that. No therapy or anything like that. No doctors for this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You gotta be a special kind of fucked up to be able to just write that off in your brain.

[James Petragallo]

Well, that's why we had a lot of people, they'd come back, they'd get no help for it, and then they'd end up being fucking junkies and being homeless because their brains were fucked up and we weren't doing anything to help them. That's what happened. I mean, most of the homeless surge of the seventies came from Vietnam. I mean, that was a lot of Vietnam vets that were all fucked up in the head and on drugs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You got to assume that any war that we've ever been in, there's been some sort of miscommunication somewhere that we probably did that because that's what I mean. War is disgusting, but you gotta be able to have unbelievable communication because that's unacceptable. That's just.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. The only difference was in Vietnam, the military just went, oh, well, they didn't even care.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fuck them.

[James Petragallo]

That was a thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So anyway, he said he was traumatized. And we don't. This is all on what he said happened. So we don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We don't know if that even happened.

[James Petragallo]

We don't know an official record of this or anything. Don't know what date it happened. But we do know what date this happened or what year. Anyway, in 1970, the Army Court martials him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, what'd he do?

[James Petragallo]

So that's not good for falsifying official documents. He likes to forge things. Yeah, he likes to forge things. Well, you can do it, really. Everything's made of paper back then, so you can really forge just about everything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Charge lines didn't even have a picture, right?

[James Petragallo]

No, Fuck, no. It wasn't laminated. It was a piece of cardboard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It was like your fucking Social Security card.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, that's it. You just handed it. That was what they had back then. There's no scanning, there's no anything. You could just print anything out. So he ends up. And I don't know if this was for leave or for whatever he was trying to do, but he ends up getting nine months in the disciplinary barracks at Fort Leavenworth. So that's not good. He gets nine months in Leavenworth, which is probably more than he would have gotten if he would have just taken his shit on the forged check to begin with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're probably right. He would have just gone to the.

[James Petragallo]

He wouldn't have had to be in war for years and then do nine months. He could have just. He could have been done with this shit first. He would probably got drafted anyway, so

[Jimmy Whisman]

certainly wouldn't have had to shoot that hut.

[James Petragallo]

No, he probably would have got drafted anyway, though, at that point. So who knows? Eventually he ends up getting. And there's some. Again, some back and Forth on whether he got an honorable discharge or a dishonorable discharge. We're not sure either way. In 71, he's out of the army now in the 1970s here, so it's 71. He comes home, he ends up in the next few years. I don't know if he had a woman at home on his breaks from war, he came home and knocked her up or what. Or if he had them all pretty quick. But from 71 on, he has about three kids in the next five years.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

So he's got a wife and three kids and they live in Hattiesburg. He works in Louisiana while the wife keeps the kids in Hattiesburg. So I don't know how that works exactly, but he's one of these guys that does kind of transient jobs. That guys will go from oil rig to here to different places. Welders or pipe fetters, whatever pays well. They're going. He spent a year as the plant manager at a Swift Farm Service center, which is a fertilizer plant.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, God.

[James Petragallo]

Imagine working in a year in a fertilizer plant. That's rough.

[Jimmy Whisman]

At least you're managing it and you can get away from it. Right. You've got to be able to get away from that smell.

[James Petragallo]

You probably have less shit on your hands than everybody else. It's probably like. It's. It's like Monty Python. How do you tell who's the manager? He's the one who hasn't got shit all over him. And that's. That's how you know who the manager is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Replace with a clipboard. And that's him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. It's so hard to get away from that smell because there's. I mean, there are chicken. There's that chicken farm way the out west and that's Ferdazona. And when you're driving down the 10 coming from LA or San Diego, you can smell it five miles before you get there. If you're managing, you're gonna manage from five miles away.

[James Petragallo]

Even just fertilizer. Fertilizer that's out. If you live near farmland. I had a friend who lived in Southwest or south. Yeah, West Phoenix there. And he bought this brand new house and all this shit. And he could never open his windows, no matter how nice it was out, because it would just overload. His furniture would stink like shit for days. It was horrible. Nothing he could do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And even if you can't. Can stand that, if you put a piece of chicken on the counter, it will be covered in flies.

[James Petragallo]

It's disgusting. Even if you can stand that, even if you have no sense of smell,

[Jimmy Whisman]

even that there's something wrong with you.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, man. He's also going to spend two or three months at a shipyard in Morgan City. But the fertilizer plant here. How he lost his fertilizer plant job is. There's differences of opinion.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's some bullshit.

[James Petragallo]

One point he said he left. He just left. He was done. But at another time when he's talking to a psychiatrist, he said that he acknowledged that he got fired for doing dumb shit. And they said, what about that? And he said, well, I've always been a good con man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What do you lie about?

[James Petragallo]

Always been a good con man. He's always been the good Eddie Haskell, basically, of, oh, yeah, no, we just came from church. And then he's forging shit and doing things because, you know, the check, that's not the first thing he ever forged that he got caught for. Probably. He's not the first, no. He said he did a number of illegal activities and had not been caught only once or twice, but he was, I guess, told to resign. Or he was fired from the fertilizer plant because of what he called embezzlement.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Theft.

[James Petragallo]

Theft. I like how he made it sound like he ran, like, a Fortune 500 company. Like, they asked me to resign. You manage a shit plant. If you get caught stealing, they say, get the fuck out. And they have security walk you out. They don't ask you to resign. They don't even let you stop at your locker to get your shit. You're just out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, we'll fill a box for you later.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, you're going to be walking out with that picture of your wife and the little plant coming out and a pencil sharpener, and that's what you're going to be doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I left. Left my last job on good terms. They still sent somebody to my house with a box of my shit.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, there you go. If you call not showing up for five years. Good terms, I suppose. Good terms. They are glutton for punishment, that company, huh? If I paid someone for five years who never showed up and just made a podcast instead, I would fucking hire a person to break their fucking legs. You understand that? Good terms.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I sent a letter of resignation. I got a phone call the next day saying, we've accepted your resignation.

[James Petragallo]

No problem. We forgot you worked here, as a matter of fact. Thanks for reminding us.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't believe you guys didn't just fix the glitch.

[James Petragallo]

That's so funny. So what? He stole you Know embezzlement in the early seventies in a Mississippi fertilizer company. What are you thinking? What is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Are you stealing bags of cow shit?

[James Petragallo]

No, no, this is actual money he stole. How much money can you steal? I mean.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, James, there's so. But in the plant, there can't be that much there.

[James Petragallo]

I mean, that's. And the fact that you can't just steal everything they have. You're not going to last a year. So what do you think? You know, if you were to guess. 8, $900, $43,000.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How is there that much money in

[James Petragallo]

ship, by the way? You know what that is in 20? $26?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petragallo]

$66,913.31. He's a quarter of a million dollars worth of shit from a fertilizer plant in Mississippi.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Holy.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. 43 grand in the. In like 73. That was like the average salary was like $6,800 or something. That was the average household or, you know, salary in the 70s.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You could buy two houses with that, right?

[James Petragallo]

Fuck, yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. I only know that from all in the family. Somebody offered Archie Bunker 30,000 for his house and he was like, we gotta sell it because it's only worth like 14. And that was the early 70s. So I guess he was under financial pressure and he was writing bad checks, and so he was looking for a way to get some money to cover the bad checks he was writing and try to. So he's just skimming Rob Peter to pay Paul? Pretty much, yeah. He considered bank robbery. And why would you. When he got that scam going after he got fired? Cause he was still in debt. He was in all his debt still. Cause he's a fuck up and he loves being in debt. And he considered extortion. What's a cause? He wants to get the money, but he's also a classy guy, mind you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I want to blackmail people for cash.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He's like, I could just walk in, rob a bank, but that's so brute, you know what I mean? It's so. It's gauche, really, is what it is. But extortion has a certain je ne sais quoi that just lends itself to making me feel like a real international. Like a high society catburger suit. Yeah, yeah. Like a high society cat burglar or something. You know what I mean? I'm only here for the journey.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Owns a couple of ascots.

[James Petragallo]

Yes, yes. Drives an Aston Martin. So that's what he was doing. He's Considering all this, at this point, he's unemployed. He's in a shitload of debt. It's the mid-70s. He's pushing 30 years old. He's got three kids, a wife, fuckloads of debt, bad checks floating all over the fucking Southeast.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's blacklisted in the bullshit operations.

[James Petragallo]

You are never touching another pile of shit again on someone else's dime ever. He's. He's got a lot of problems. He owed money on a car. He owed money. He owed department store credit cards. He had out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He got those.

[James Petragallo]

Absolutely. He even had a boat that he owed money on. He's living above his means the whole time. That's a problem. So he just writes checks to keep it floating, and then he's got to fix it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you're stealing, embezzling from a company, you know there's an end to that. Why do you live above the means of fact?

[James Petragallo]

Dude, It's Casey Anthony's hallway is what it is. We're back to Casey Anthony coming fast. We came up with. During the Patreon this week, we figured out a lie that there's an absolute end to that you can't overcome. That's called Casey Anthony's hallway.

[Jimmy Whisman]

When there's a brick wall at the end.

[James Petragallo]

Yes, if you follow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And no more offices.

[James Petragallo]

When Casey Anthony was at Universal Studios telling the police that she worked there, and she said, my office is down this hallway. And as they got toward the end of the hallway, finally she just stopped at the end of the hallway, turned around and said, okay, I don't work here. I lied because there's a. Once you run out of offices that aren't yours, that's it. The lie's over. So any lie like that, that has a finite end to it, that's obvious, that's Casey Anthony's hallway. It's like Schrodinger's cat. There's a lot of. It's Casey Anthony's hallway nose drywall.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What do you do then?

[James Petragallo]

That's what I mean. You're fucked at that. You gotta turn around and go, I don't work here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I guess so I can't imagine stealing, knowing for sure that there's an end to that.

[James Petragallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And then financing.

[James Petragallo]

It's the gambler's. It's a gambler addict mentality, though. It's the addict mentality. It's the gambler mentality. It's all of that in one. He's got that for sure. So by age 30 here, he's an unemployed farmer, fertilizer plant manager, former shipyard worker, three Vietnam tour, combat vet with some PTSD issues, as he said. He's a self described marksman, as I would assume you would be if your only job was to shoot people for 33 months. So then he decides he is fucked. He's backed into a corner. By January of 1976, he has run out every line he has, basically. And I don't work. He needs some money and he needs it now, essentially. And a lot of money to really put a lot of things right. He owes a shitload of money. He's gonna lose his boat and his car and all this stuff. So what he does is on January 10, 1976, he's in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and he walks into a pawn shop in Baton rouge with a 16 gauge shotgun.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my.

[James Petragallo]

Not to rob the pawn shop, to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

To sell it.

[James Petragallo]

To pawn the 16 gauge shotgun. You don't want to try to rob a pawn shop. They have the most guns.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He has a lot behind the counter.

[James Petragallo]

Not only they have the most guns, then they have like chainsaws and shit to take you apart with. And like you just on the shelf stock. They could dismember you, kill you, and have you cleaned up and gone without any hesitation. Literally.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's how. It's how Marcellus Wallace got saved in Pulp Fiction.

[James Petragallo]

Exactly.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thank God it was a pawn shot.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, you walk in, pick your weapon. Totally. So he's gonna trade his 16 gauge shotgun for a Titan.38 caliber pistol and $75. So he gets a pistol and $75 for his shotgun.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's a great trade.

[James Petragallo]

Not a bad trade. It's a weird trade. The person at the pawn shop says, because most people don't trade like hunting weaponry for. Is a bird, like a bird gun. You don't trade a bird gun for a handgun. Those are totally different things. It's just not normal. But whatever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm not shooting quail with that thing.

[James Petragallo]

No, you got to be a really good shot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a marksman.

[James Petragallo]

Imagine trying to shoot quail with.38 pop shit again. I mean, like, that would be so impossible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not only did you miss, but you just sent around two miles away, blindly

[James Petragallo]

hope nobody gets it over there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You just sent a stray wildly out,

[James Petragallo]

out of the house, miles, into wherever. So he tells his parents that he's going to the coast to take a physical for a job on an offshore oil race. So that buys him some time where no one's going to be looking for him for a couple days. Then he drives to Gulfport Mississippi. All right. He checks into the Twin Star Motel.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure. It's nice.

[James Petragallo]

Not one star isn't enough. The Twin Star.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll bet it's not two star.

[James Petragallo]

I bet it's not a two star. That's their Yelp review total, is what it is. The Twin Star we're embracing. Yeah. Or just gonna say, fuck it. Like those restaurants that make T shirts that say, one star. Worst service ever or whatever. Same shit. That's what they're doing. So he registers as Jack Wilson.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why would you do that?

[James Petragallo]

I've never registered under a false name because I'm never up to something. In a hotel, maybe that's why. Could be up to something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And nobody's ever looking for me either.

[James Petragallo]

Not usually, no. He pays cash also, which was very common in the 70s. That would be way more of a red flag now of anybody paying cash at a hot like us. When we went to Austin, we had, like, singles and quarters and shit. That one time, 2017.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It costs more to pay cash. You'll get it back in the morning.

[James Petragallo]

But yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We were like, it costs $80 more. I'm like, but that's all I have.

[James Petragallo]

But that's all the money. Okay, well, that's our gas money back home, so we better get it back or else we're living here forever. Essentially, we live here. If you don't give us that 80 back, is what we told the guy,

[Jimmy Whisman]

my car will be out of gas and I got nothing here.

[James Petragallo]

We're gonna live in this parking lot. So he pays cash.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But that's all I have.

[James Petragallo]

But that's everything. That's all we both had between us, for Christ's sake. Oh, that was Sad. So room 110, this is. And he spends the next couple days driving around Gulfport just taking it in, taking in the sights, the sounds, and doing his thing. He's not doing. He's not like, casing anybody, not following anybody around. He's just looking around, just seeing what comes to him naturally. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Room 110. That's two doors down from where the players dwell. James.

[James Petragallo]

That's a good point. Oh, God. So, Monday, January 12, 1976. He's been driving around Gulfport. This is his third day driving around Gulfport. Maybe fourth day, he's got an alias, and he sees the Gulf national bank on Highway 90. Hmm. Okay. It's like right by the beach, this. This bank. It's like, right across from the beach and stuff. And he stops at a payphone at a convenience store right across the street from the bank. And he calls Gulf national bank. And because he's a, you know, a real international mover and shaker here. Debonair, very debonair. He asks the person who answers, who can I speak with that handles commercial loans because he's starting a big business here. And the bank tells them, well, our person who handles that's a guy named Charles Marder. He can help you with that. Charles Marder is M a T E R, not no Y. So Charles Marder can help you. And they said, we'll connect you with Charles if you'd like. You know, we'll put you through to him. And he hung up. Richard hangs up, doesn't get put through to Charles. Then he opens up the phone book. The Gulfport telephone directory that every payphone used to have a phone book.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's dangling there right by your knees.

[James Petragallo]

And back then if you're young, you're like, first of all, it's so weird that there was books full of everyone's phone number, but it was everyone's phone number.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Everyone.

[James Petragallo]

Unless you were hiding from a stalker or the FBI was after you, your name was in the phone book.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fill out paperwork and pay for them to delete you.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. For it to be unlisted, that was like a big deal for the phone company, not to list you and whatever. So it was a huge deal. You could look anybody up, and not only would they, they'd have their name, their phone number, and their street address.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Go right to their house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So literally, people used to say, look me up.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, they. They literally would.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In town, look me up.

[James Petragallo]

Look me up. I'm in the book. Everybody would say that. Yeah. Imagine if you said that to someone. Hey, what are you doing? No, I'll be in town this day. Cool.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Look me up.

[James Petragallo]

And then they walked away. You'd be like, well, I'll never see that person again. How the fuck do you look them up?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Look me up.

[James Petragallo]

Look me up where? In what? What are you talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Did he just say Google me?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Facebook. Like Instagram, TikTok. What are you talking about? Where are we here? They don't have your address on there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So bizarre.

[James Petragallo]

But that's what it was. Everything. And in the phone book, there is exactly 1.1M a R T E R1 Charles Martyr. So he said, probably the guy. I'm got to be him. So who is he? He's Charles Wesley Martyr. Here he is. Born 1936. Here. He's from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, originally. He graduated from LSU with a BS Degree in finance. And he also went to the LSU School of Banking of the south as well, later on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What is that?

[James Petragallo]

I don't know. School of banking. He's did finance. His whole route is he wants to be a banking executive.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Put money in, take money out. There's a school for that.

[James Petragallo]

There's a school. Well, I guess. How you approve loans, how you run the business. Because a bank is all investing your interest and investing the money they have. And that's. There's a whole lot going on behind the scenes. The teller part is nothing. That's 1% of a bank. They don't care. That's just to make you feel like you're like actually have a human.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Makes you feel like your money's safe. It's fucking not there.

[James Petragallo]

And as soon as it goes, it's

[Jimmy Whisman]

like it's in the market.

[James Petragallo]

No, it's like one of those old movies when they show a pneumatic tube in a thing and it's going all over. Like the Hudsucker Proxy or something. It's like one of those fucking things where it's all tubes and. And you have no idea where your money went. Downtown.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It gets turned into digital shit in a minute.

[James Petragallo]

Yep. So in 1962, he married a woman he met at LSU that was also going to college. A woman named Edwina Rose degrey. Degruy. Degruy. Well, she'll be martyr here because they're getting married, but it's D, E space. Gruy. That's her very Louisiana. Hey, very. Got some French behind it there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Southern Creole. French shit.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, totally. Well, that's another reason for Catholicism, is the French were Catholic, so there you go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I almost asked a French Catholic.

[James Petragallo]

That makes sense. So she's born June 20, 1940. Like I said, about four years younger. So he was probably a senior when she was a freshman. He's scoping for the new chicks. And she meets Charles. She was born in New Orleans. She is the daughter of. Wow. Edwin Joseph Dufauchard de Gruy. That's her father.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dufourshot.

[James Petragallo]

Dufauchard is. Yeah. D U F O U C H A R. De Groi.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

De Graw. And his mother. Her mother is Emily. Good luck spelling it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the only poor.

[James Petragallo]

It ain't the Emily you're thinking about.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petragallo]

I, E. Yeah. E, M, E, l, I, e em e, l, I, e. Emily.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

Emily Carrie Mellinson DeGroy. And she went by Tootsie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why not?

[James Petragallo]

Because she had a penis, I guess. I have no idea. Why? Because she loved Dustin Hoffman. I don't know. She goes by Tootsie because that's easier than all of them. So Tootsie and Edwin. And the daughter is Edwina. This poor kid, he said, we're naming our kid Edwin. I don't give a shit what comes out of your crotch. It's called Edwin. Yeah, we'll stick a vowel on it if we have to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petragallo]

So she grew up on Bonnabelle Boulevard in Metairie. Is that how you say that? Metairie? I don't know. M, E, T, A, I, R, I, E. We've had.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, it's French as fuck. Right?

[James Petragallo]

I think they just say it as Metairie. If I'm not mist could be wrong. This podcast, Small Town Murder, is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[Jimmy Whisman]

BetterHelp.com Absolutely.

[James Petragallo]

This is. How's everybody doing out there? Everybody doing okay? Here's the thing. We're trying. That's what it is. Why is there still a stigma attached to getting help and support? That makes no sense. And it's the dumbest thing ever.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It is.

[James Petragallo]

I don't get it at all. I mean, if someone had a medical problem, they went to the doctor. You wouldn't be like, are you weak?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why would this cavity? You'd want the dentist to fix it.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. BetterHelp's 2026 State of Stigma report surveyed 2,000Americans and revealed that 85% of Americans think getting support is wise, yet 74% say society discourage people from doing support. So. So, I mean, that's. That's. Think about that. Everyone thinks it's fine, but yet everyone's discouraging others from doing it. It's silly. It's really silly. And there is a big. There's a chasm in between, you know, people needing mental health support and believing in mental health support and actually seeking it. It's very silly. And there's plenty we can do as a society, and that would be support people who get help, number one, and realize that it's great and everybody needs therapy. It's good for everybody. And BetterHelp is a great way to start. First of all, they have over 30,000 therapists. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. And it really works with an average of 4.9 out of 5 for live sessions based on over 1.7 million client reviews. BetterHelp's therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US and BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals? You fill out a short questionnaire. It helps you identify your needs and preferences. And they'll use their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate. And that means they typically get it right the first time. But if you're not happy, they're going to make sure to get it right. Get you another therapist at no cost. It's phenomenal stuff. Get yourself some therapy. There is no stigma. It is silly. It's just silly. Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with better help. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Small town murder that's better. H lp.com Small town murder now back to the show. Hey everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you about the safest sponsor that we ever have had. Here, here. SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

SimpliSafe.com S I M P L I safe.com Absolutely.

[James Petragallo]

Let me tell you something. We love simply safe. And we have had. This is the product that we've used the most of anything we've ever advertised. This is the product we've used it the most. We love it. We stand by these people a hundred percent. It is the best way for peace of mind for your home, your office, your family, everything. Because in the US there's a break in about every 26 seconds, which is a lot. That means somewhere right now there's an intruder getting closer to somewhere. And most security systems, the problem is they alert you after the break. Ins already started. Great. Now someone's in my house. You've listened to this show. You know what can happen. Is that what you want? You want to know that they're in your house? I want to know about it beforehand. And that's where Simplisafe comes in. And that's why we choose Simplisafe Safe to secure our homes and studios. Using the outdoor camera series 2 and advanced AI alerts. SimpliSafe's US based live agents identify threats on your property and deter them, stopping crime before it starts. They see it, they talk to them. They say, get out of here. Cops are being called stupid. Go. It's amazing you want that so bad. We have both used Simplisafe the whole time. Houses, offices, says, I can't put together IKEA furniture, but I can install the Simplisafe because it was that easy. And it's Simplisafe. It's a game changer for us. And here's what we love most about it. I'm telling you, no long term contracts. You don't want to be locked into some contract. They don't need that because SimpliSafe, they want to earn your business every day. That's how they do it. Also, peace of mind. I mean, honestly, you see all these break ins, you see things happening and we read our show, we're talking on small town murder all the time. We go, oh, my God, this is. I'm happy I have this. It makes me feel good. And with the monitoring and deterrence plan starting at under a dollar a day, you can't beat that. That's crazy. Imagine having like, it's basically like having your own home security person, like a big gargoyle standing there. Dollar a day. That's crazy. It would cost a lot more. And like we said, so easy to set it up. And I'm telling you, we want you to experience the same peace of mind that we do, which is why We've partnered with SimpliSafe for an exclusive offer of discount to our listeners. Right now, you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com small that's half [e-mail] small there's no safe like SimpliSafe safe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

There's a better way to buy blinds, shades, shutters and drapery. And it's called three Day Blinds. Three Day Blinds is the leading manufacturer of custom blinds, shades, shutters and drapery. And we've been doing this for over 45 years, so we really know our stuff. Here's what makes us different. A professional design consultant comes right to your home with tons of samples, helps you pick the right style, takes precise measurements, and even handles the installation. No guesswork, no DIY disasters. Whether you want more privacy, better light control, or to upgrade your home with motorized or smart blinds, three Day Blinds has thousands of options to fit any style or budget. So for a free no charge, no obligation consultation, head to threedayblinds.com podcast for our buy one, get one 50% off deal. That's the 3D a yblinds.com podcast.

[James Petragallo]

She has two sisters and a brother. She went to St. Catherine of Siena Grammar School, went to Metairie High, then went to East Jefferson High where she got her diploma. And yeah, I guess her aunt said that when this is Edwina's sister, the kids, later on, her kid's aunt, they were talking about. And she told the kids that when they were younger, like pre Edwina getting married. The two sisters would like to dress up in their nicest clothes, put really good makeup on and everything. Look really presentable and go crash wedding receptions. That they did. Because if you have two attractive, super well dressed for a wedding young lady there, no one's going to ask them for an invitation. They're just going to feed them whatever the fuck, chicken or fish, and then that's it. Go dance and drink and have fun. Fun. That's what they do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's amazing. They did the Wedding Crashers thing long before the movie.

[James Petragallo]

In the late 50s and early 60s they were doing it. And yeah, their sister said she liked to have fun. She liked to do stuff like that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wasn't that hi's wife's name? In Raising Arizona, she went by Ed.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it was Edwina. I don't know if it was Edwina.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Had to be Edwina. Like that.

[James Petragallo]

Edwina.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Edwina.

[James Petragallo]

Edwina. Edwina.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Had to be Edwina, right?

[James Petragallo]

Maybe. I can't fucking remember now. No. I don't know if they ever said it in there. I haven't seen it in a few years.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think they showed the rewatch that

[James Petragallo]

I should watch it every year because. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Because he called her Ed. Yeah, Ed.

[James Petragallo]

And ha.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I can't remember what. I think it's Edwina though. I really do.

[James Petragallo]

So I gotta, like. I said that should be a once a year movie that I watch. Been four or five years. I gotta get back on it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's crying and he's like, who did it? I'll get that son of a bitch.

[James Petragallo]

The whole thing is fucking hilarious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not. Hi, Madonna.

[James Petragallo]

Great fucking movie. So I saw that in the theater with.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Stop it.

[James Petragallo]

In the movie theater with Racist Nan.

[Jimmy Whisman]

When you were a child.

[James Petragallo]

Racist Nan. First of all, Nan is not a big movie aficionado. We went to like. I can think of two movies that she took me to as a child. One was look who's Talking, which was very uncomfortable for a child to watch. The opening scene of sperm flying through everywhere. That was gross. And Raising Arizona, which I was like 8, 9 years old. I don't know what I think because the trailer makes it look like a.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A fun movie, a goofy movie.

[James Petragallo]

Son, you got a panty on your head. It's that shit. And so she thought. But she liked it actually, which is interesting. And I got me into weird movies.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is dark.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. It got me into the Coen Brothers as like a 9 year old. I was like, this is fucking cool. This is such a different movie. And it was funny.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So they used a real truck like that shortstop. Those were all over Arizona at the time. And I mean, nobody even. I'm sure nobody thought about it. But as soon as I saw it on tv, I was like, hey, I go there. That's so familiar to my life.

[James Petragallo]

I know that. So 1965, they have a son, Eric Charles Marder. Now Chuck, here he is quickly gaining some prominence in the world of banking, I guess. He worked as a national bank examiner for the Department of the U.S. treasury at 1 point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sounds impressive.

[James Petragallo]

And then got another job. They lived in Metairie for a while. Then Chuck gets a job at the Gulfport national bank there on the Interstate 90.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's Edwina do? She's from Money though. Yeah, they sound wealthy.

[James Petragallo]

Don't know if they're from money or not. But I mean at least middle class enough to be able to send your kids to college.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dad's got four fucking names.

[James Petragallo]

Dad's got four. Three of them are very French. So that's a lot. You gotta have some. I feel like they're at least upper middle class or at least solidly middle class, you know what I mean? They're doing. Doing enough to. They go on vacation once a year

[Jimmy Whisman]

and they, you know, they don't worry about the mortgage.

[James Petragallo]

They send their kids to college at least. So they're moving. Chuck gets a job. Charles goes by Chuck, by the way. Everyone calls him Chuck Martyr. This is on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. They moved to Gulfport in around 70. Late 70, early 71. They buy a house on Southern Circle and Edwina takes care of the. A young child. She's a housewife at the time, which was. He works at a bank.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Awesome.

[James Petragallo]

If it was 1970 and you were a big successful banker and your wife had a job, people would be like, fuck are you doing? You can't support your wife at a bank. What are you, a compulsive gambler or something? They think you were a loser. That's just how society was.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's impressive.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Now she's a stay at home mom. Takes care of the kid. Soon to be kids as they're going to have another kid here. And so 73. And spends time. She likes hanging out with her friends and all that kind of thing. She likes to. According to her kids. She likes to play cards and watch TV with the kids.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was just gonna say this bitch plays bridge.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, absolutely. Everybody played cards back then.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Isn't that wild?

[James Petragallo]

Because you come from a time that's before television. What else are you Gonna do people play cards to pass the time they hung out. They play cards. That's it. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Play cards.

[James Petragallo]

My grandparents were all card fanatics. All of them. They all played. Constantly played cards with my grandmother. That's all we did.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't even know the rules to gin or bridge or any of those card games. I just know that watching it is so impressive to see adults.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, they're into it. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

It wasn't impressive to see my Italian grandma play with all. They just speak Italian and yell at each other the whole time and accuse each other of cheating and fucking scream and yell. It was hilarious. Hilarious. As kids, we used to watch them and go, God, they're going to kill each other in there. Amazing. So Edwina, she's doing all that. She takes the kids to the beach all the time. She drives a convertible Volkswagen Beetle. 72, 73. On the shore there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So fun.

[James Petragallo]

They're living a good life, basically. She's also big into volunteer work, and she's a member of the St. James Catholic Church. She's in the auxiliary of the Memorial Hospital at Gulfport. She founded the St. James Booster Club. She was a secretary of the St. James PTA. This is the school that her kids go to. Her kid at this point, she's even active in scouting. Boy scouting, where she's a den mother for troop 204.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How about that?

[James Petragallo]

She is the quintessential fucking June Cleaver of the time, basically. Very busy taking care of the house and kids. And I'm sure she was freshly dressed and lipsticked at all times. You know what I mean? That kind of lady.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That boxcar derby car.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, yeah. Soapbox derby.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Soapbox.

[James Petragallo]

That's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Well, that's Chuck's. Chuck only has time on the weekends. He's very busy. But that's every night he gets home. You gotta go in the garage and help little Eric with the soapbox derby car. He needs the car. Okay, so 1973, they have another son named Kevin Paul Martyr. So they have Eric as the older, Kevin as the younger. Chuck gets a promotion at work, which is big time. Big time. This is the bank, like we said. Right on U.S. 90. The Beach Highway. Right on the water. You can see it from your office. If he's got a cool office, he's got an ocean view. I found the actual newspaper announcement of his promotion. Promotion, which is hilarious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They put it in the paper.

[James Petragallo]

They put it in the paper. They say, Charles W. Chuck Martin, or Martyr, has been promoted to senior vice president, responsible for the Overall loan portfolio. That's a lot. Wow. That's a whole lot. He's been promoted to that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The overall loan portfolio for the entire bank.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He's the guy that's going to oversee everything. And that's a big job. A big vice president, too. That's a big shit. So he's heavily on the commercial loan side of things, too, because that's where they make most of their money. Commercial loans are way bigger than your

[Jimmy Whisman]

home loan millions rather than a $170,000 house.

[James Petragallo]

And back then a mortgage was $8,000. We're going to finance $12,000 or something. Whereas these commercial loans could be millions. Millions of dollars. It's where the money. He also stays busy. He doesn't just work. He's a member of the Kiwanis Club of Gulfport and served on the board of directors for them. Also a member of the Gridiron Club, which was something to do with football, I believe. Some sort of football thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Broadwater Country Club. These are country club people. Even.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Holy shit.

[James Petragallo]

She takes her convertible Beetle to the country club to play tennis because she also likes tennis. This is like 70s, the early 70s.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Old money. God damn.

[James Petragallo]

Just success money. He's very successful. The Gulfport Yacht Club, he's a member of.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You gotta have a yacht to be in that club, right?

[James Petragallo]

I'm not sure, but either way, they go to fancy parties is what that tells. Between the yacht club and the country club, they're always suited up with fancy drinks in their hand is what that sounds like to me. And also a member of the Home Builders Association, I guess because he does a lot of loans, he doesn't build shit. So he is also, his kids say, very strict father, too. Just very strict. Not doesn't beat them or anything, but very strict. You do the right thing, you do that. This is very typical Middle America family. Dad brings home the money and. And gets a membership to the yacht club. And mom drives around in the Beetle and plays tennis and helps the kids with their homework and all that. Now, that's Chuck. That's the guy that he's looked up in the phone book. Richard Jordan, while he was on his little jaunt. So back to Richard Jordan. He hangs up on Chuck, looks up his address, and he drives by the house. Drives by the Martyr house on Southern Circle around noon that day. Now, there's several cars in the driveway. It looks to me, from the picture I've seen, it's like a circular driveway, like a half circle that goes in. So there's a Bunch of cars. And there's a few here. They say there's several cars, including a Mercedes and a sports car.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, a different car other than the. It's not a Mercedes sports car.

[James Petragallo]

It's two different cars. No, a Mercedes and a sports car going on. So he sees all these cars and he assumes that Chuck probably came home for lunch today. Maybe that's what it is. So he keeps driving. Richard Jordan does. He comes back about 2pm when he figures the lunch rush will be over at the house. And by then all the cars except one are gone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's it?

[James Petragallo]

I think it's the Beetle, I believe. Or she might have got a Mercedes by then. I'm not sure, but. But it's one car in the driveway. So he picked up the phone. He's got the number still. He goes to a payphone after he sees only one car, dials the martyr house because it's in the phone book. And a woman's voice answers, presumably Edwina. He hangs up immediately. Okay. Then he goes back to the motel room. He puts on a suit. Suit, pants, tie, sport coat.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A six piece.

[James Petragallo]

Six piece suit. He puts on. He carries a manila folder and has a clipboard.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

And leaves his motel room. Full suit and tie, manila folder, clipboard. Also, another thing he has is in his pants. This sounds not what you think is in his pants.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I know what's in there. But also.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, he cut out the lining of a pocket and strapped the.38 revolver inside it so he could get to it without a holster. So it's strapped to his leg with no pocket. So he can reach in his pocket, grab it out of the holster and pull it out of his pocket.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's actually genius.

[James Petragallo]

Pretty diabolical. In all the episodes we've done, we've never heard of anyone doing that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

People have put guns in their pockets. Nobody's cut the line around out.

[James Petragallo]

This is episode rabbit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

721. We've never had somebody figure that out. Maybe he does have a high iq. We'll never know. So he does that so he could get to this.38. And this won't show a bulge too, because it's like in his pants on the side. So you won't see a big bulge in his suit jacket or anything like that. Won't draw any attention. He goes back to the martyr house. Clipboard, folder, six piece suit, sans pocket. Gun in his. Yeah, got his gun pocket working. And he walks up, he rings the bell, Edwina answers the door. Because back then you just answered the door when someone knocked at it, you know, whatever. He tells her that I'm with the electric company, okay. And I've gotten reports of defective circuit breakers in the area. I'm investigating this. So we don't know if he said electric company or General Electric. One of the two, he had a specific electric company. Either way, she said, well, come on

[Jimmy Whisman]

right in, I'll show you where it is.

[James Petragallo]

Absolutely. He's got a tie and a clipboard. I mean, he's an important man. Can't get in his way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's jotting down information as he receives it.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, he's talking about wiring problems. We don't want the house to burn down. So once he's in the house and the door is closed, he pulls the.38 out of his pocket.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Okay, now, where are the kids right now? That's a good question.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's got two. Kevin and Eric.

[James Petragallo]

Yes, Eric is the 10 year old. He is at school. It's so funny that there's a lot of different accounts of where he was. One says he was at school, others say he was at catechism class. He is at school, which is a Catholic high school. Our Catholic school, elementary school. So he's kind of at both. They're kind of both. Right. But it got confused over the years so people didn't know. But it's 2 o' clock in the afternoon on a Monday in January. He's at school.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's almost done.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, he's at regular school.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Whatever's gonna happen better happen fast.

[James Petragallo]

Cause, yeah, he's gonna be home soon. Three o'. Clock.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's gonna take a ride or. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Now the three year old is asleep upstairs in the house. So it's just her and the three year old in the house here, Kevin. Okay, Basically, Edwina, he tells her, look, I'm kidnapping you. That's what's going down here. Like, I'm kidnapping you. I'm going to hold you for ransom and I'm going to get a bunch of money out of this whole thing. She tells him, which I don't know if anyone ever thought of this when someone's trying to kidnap them. She said, right now I can't go, I can't. I mean, I love to and everything, you know, here's the thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Today doesn't work.

[James Petragallo]

I got appointments. Like really, if you come back tomorrow, maybe I can work something out. But right now I am not available to be kidnapped. I'm sorry, can't do it. Can't do it. She said my three year Old's asleep here. What am I supposed to do, Leave a three year old? I can't go. This is crazy. You can't just take me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is very inconvenient is my point.

[James Petragallo]

He grabbed her, put the gun up to her head and said, we're leaving, and walked her out the front door.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petragallo]

That's why you bring a gun, I assume to this type of thing. He gets her out of the house and into the car. Then he realizes that, fuck, I left my folder inside. Oh no, my prop there. That's not gonna work. It's got fingerprints and it's got a lot on it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shit.

[James Petragallo]

Fuck. He said, goddammit, I left that on the kitchen table. Shit. So he went back inside for it. Okay. He went up, by the way, checked the kid who was sleeping, looked at the kid, kid is sleeping, and picked up the folder and left again. Because he walked her in with it and then walked back out again again. And then they leave again with the folder. He makes her drive.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay?

[James Petragallo]

Okay. Now, that afternoon, about 3:40pm so about an hour 40 after he originally gets over there, here, this is when Judy Tyler Frears, a former Gulf Point national bank employee who was an employee at that time, said that at 3:40pm Chuck Marder at work receives a call from Jack Wilson. And we know who Jack Wilson is. That is the alias that he used that Richard Jordan used at the hotel. During that call, she called the FBI. During that call, she said, I saw Mr. Martyr talk with the FBI. And I saw Mr. Martyr being presented with money rolled up in plain brown paper sack. He was very upset, he was shaking, there was tears in his eyes. Oh, he called for a ransom. This whole thing's about ransom. So he called, when he called Chuck called the FBI and stuff about the ransom. But he also called the house to see if the guy was lying. Because anybody could just call and go, I have your wife send me money. And she's home cooking dinner, you know what I mean? Instead, yeah, she's watching the fucking match game and up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A kid from Catechism.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, she's really perfecting her backhand down at the yacht club tennis court.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's got the top down and the BEETLE with that 1600 humming, just humming, babe.

[James Petragallo]

So apparently he called home right away and the three year old answered the phone. Oh, what three year old answered the phone? Oh, wow, that's impressive. And the 10 year old was still at school waiting to be picked up by mom, who obviously isn't coming. So he's like, okay, my Kids are safe anyway, because that was one of the things. Did he kidnap the kids too? Because Jack Wilson didn't say so. Anyway, this call that he makes for ransom is very business like. Hello, Mr. Martyr. Yes, I have your wife and I am holding her for ransom. This is Jack. We have your wife is what they said. What Jack said. We have your wife. Wife holding her for ransom. This is the way it is. No reason to freak out. It's happened and you're going to have to come up with some money and you'll get your wife back. It'll be no problem. She's not being hurt. She's not being tortured or beaten or anything like that. That's it. They said, well, how much money do you want? 50,000 bucks, which almost $300,000 nowadays. It's a shitload of money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's certainly a lot of money. It's not forever money.

[James Petragallo]

No, but in the 50s, it's also, you have to think what he could he reasonably acquire. You know what I mean? Like, how much cash can a person get in the 70s who's not like a multi, multi millionaire, you know what I mean? Frank Sinatra could probably go pick up a suitcase full of cash, but I don't know if this guy can. He's the vice president of a bank. I mean, that's where the money is. But still.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But in 1970, getting this kind of money, by 1975, you're going to need to get this money again.

[James Petragallo]

No. Yeah, this is 76 here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

So I mean, it's not a lot. 80. Yeah, this is 76, but it's still, like I said, you can't ask for more than you think. That they could reasonably get, I think is what it is. So they don't know how much money this guy has. He's at 50,000. I'll try that, you know, and fair

[Jimmy Whisman]

enough, but it's just such a silly play because it's so dangerous in terms of. Of freedom, life, all kinds of stuff.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, it's insanity to do this.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is so stupid.

[James Petragallo]

This is crazy. He tells Chuck she'll be released within 48 hours. She's okay, I promise you. Very matter of fact. And he says, you get the 50,000, you leave the money on Highway 49. There's gonna be a blue jacket by the side of the road. Wrap the cash in brown paper and put it on the jacket. Jacket that I leave there, okay? Now, the FBI was contacted, by the way, by local police and by Chuck for two different reasons. Number one, when his kids are at home. So he sends the FBI to the house and the police and he goes back to the house. But before they even got there, a friend of Edwina's had stopped by, found Edwina missing and the three year old in the house alone and called the cops also.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

So they've gotten a bunch of calls. She just shown up on a Monday afternoon and the car's there, the door's

[Jimmy Whisman]

unlocked, and a three year old.

[James Petragallo]

Three year old's inside. No Edwina, just taking phone calls. So Chuck gets the money. Obviously the FBI is going to provide this money or the bank or somebody. There's plenty of cash around.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So the money will show up.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Up.

[James Petragallo]

It's gonna show up. So nightfall comes, which is pretty early in the day in January, Chuck drives out to Highway 49 with the money. There's no jacket. He does not see a blue jacket like he was instructed. So he drives up and down the highway in the dark looking for this jacket, but it's not there. And so he's freaking out. He's got all the money sitting next to him on the seat. Now, Richard Jordan was sitting, watching him drive from the woods. He's in the desoto National Forest watching him drive back and forth in the woods. Okay?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he knows that he didn't leave a jacket.

[James Petragallo]

He knows he didn't leave a jacket, but this is on purpose. What he's doing is he sees two vehicles also making turns back and forth with Chuck's vehicle. So this is just a setup, test run. This is not actually to do the exchange right now. He just wants to see a. He's got the FBI with him. And he does, obviously. So he said he knew it was a setup, never put the jacket out and waited to see that. So just a test, testing all this type of thing. Now, Chuck said that he drove around, he had the money. And he said, I did not make contact with him though, on the road. He said he returned to his home where the FBI agents were there, and he received at that point another call from Jack Wilson at home.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jack's about to say, saw what you did.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He said, okay, drive back up 49 like you did before. Except, you know, he said, what I'll do is I will signal you with my car. I'll blink it three times. I'll do all of that. Okay. Okay. Now that's what he told him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Leave your first time at home this time.

[James Petragallo]

No, that's what he told him the first time was he'd blink his lights three times and then look for a Jacket, which he didn't. But he tells him to go up, drive again and blink the lights three times or whatever. Now, the next morning, 1-13-76, he calls again. Richard Jordan. Okay, now he's accusing Charles of fucking with him. He said, you tried to pull a fast one on me last night, didn't you? Yeah, this is like old movie dialogue. You pull a fast one on me, didn't you? It's very.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That pulled wool over my eyes.

[James Petragallo]

Tried to pull the wool over my eyes and fool me. So during this conversation, the FBI is. They're coaching Chuck, and they're telling him, get tough with him. Fucking stick it and push back.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tell him to go fuck himself.

[James Petragallo]

Say, hey, your wife isn't being held hostage here. You fucking tell him to go fuck himself when your wife is being held. Tell me to do it. Jesus Christ.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Play with your wife's life in his hands.

[James Petragallo]

Hey, I think he's a pussy. Call him a pussy. See what he does. See if he kills her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Mom's a fat twat. Do it.

[James Petragallo]

See if he kills her. I bet he won't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, let's do this. Like, impractical joke.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. What do you think's gonna happen?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Try to say vis a vis in the sentence.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, try to do it. So what he does, Chuck, decides to heatedly demand to speak to his wife. Well, let me talk to her then. Let me know she's okay. Let me know. Whatever. So Richard Jordan said, I don't know if you want to talk to her. And I think you're fucking with me. I guess we're at an impasse. That's what he says. He actually said, I guess we're at an impasse. He tried to French up impasse because it's got an E on the end. So he was like, we're at an impasse.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's like when Kempfer calls a coupe a coupe.

[James Petragallo]

A coupe. Yeah, Exactly. No, the 70s and 80s were really into, like, French stuff is fancy, period. So people thought they were, like, European and shit. It's funny. So French food was a big hit. Is a big deal. We're going out to a fancy French restaurant.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ooh. For breakfast. We're having croissants.

[James Petragallo]

Croissants.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not croissants. We're having croissants.

[James Petragallo]

Croissants.

[Jimmy Whisman]

W in it.

[James Petragallo]

We're at an impasse at. So Chuck, then he says, I want to speak to my wife. And Richard Jordan says, she's fine. She's so fine, by the way. She wants me to ask you something. She wants me to ask you how the children are. So now he's delivering messages from Edwina to Chuck saying he wants to know about the children. He tells them that she really wants to know to make sure the boys are okay because she left the 3 year old there by himself and the 10 year old at school. Chuck says, tell Edwina that the kids are fine. I'm taking care of them. They're fine, they're not hurt. Everything's fine. They don't even know what's going on right now. So at one point he continues to insist after Richard, Jordan continues to insist she's fine. And he says, well, just let me talk to her. Then finally Chuck loses it and says, I'm not giving you shit if I don't talk to my wife. Which is. I don't think he uses says shit like that very often, but that's the exact quote from the tape. I'm not giving you shit if I don't talk to my wife. I'm not making the drop until you let me talk to my wife. So now I'm taking the ball back in my court. You might have my wife, but you want money and that's the whole reason you've done all this. And it's gonna be a waste of time if I don't give it to you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So yeah, regardless of what you have of mine, I have something you want, motherfucker.

[James Petragallo]

The whole yeah. The whole reason. The whole yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're not gonna just make the calls here.

[James Petragallo]

The whole point of monkeydoos. The whole reason, the whole reason for monkeydoos. That's a your stupid opinions reference that you should really figure out. It's hilarious.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's absolutely monkey's amazing.

[James Petragallo]

So martyr here repeatedly calls him a son of a bitch as well. You son of a bitch. I'm not giving you shit. Now he's. Oh yeah, asshole. He's just pissed. He doesn't care anymore. He says, I want to talk to my wife. I want to talk to my wife. And they're talking about money. And Chuck says, I don't give a damn about money. I just want my wife. So this is crazy. It's at this point, this is a great negotiating tactic at this point. At this point, Jordan says, okay, I get it. Tell you what, 25 grand. I know you want to talk to your wife.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll go havesies on this hood, but

[James Petragallo]

how about less money and you don't talk to your wife. How's that sound? Is that good? Is that okay with you?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He really did that.

[James Petragallo]

He really said that. He said new instructions.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let me talk to my wife. I'll take half.

[James Petragallo]

I'll take half. How about half? What do you say? New instructions too. By the way, drop it near the I10 at Canal Road. And make sure to take several turns before you get on the freeway so you can't be followed. I don't want you. I don't want you followed again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay?

[James Petragallo]

Not gonna do it. If you're being followed, leave your pals alone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Yep. So the money has been serialized microfilm by the FBI. They've taken a picture of every single bill. Everything. So by the way, what a boring job. You'd think it's gonna be all exciting and then you're sitting there taking individual fucking pictures of $20 bills.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Polaroids. I'm sure it.

[James Petragallo]

I think this is micro film. So they had like those little cameras. Yeah, like you see in like a spy movie when someone opens a file, picks it up real quick and then.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, a two finger deal job. Or that they can just snap fixtures.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, totally one of those.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But even still, you've got to snap. Move the bill. Snap. Move the bill. Snap.

[James Petragallo]

Set it up, make sure it's in frame.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Click it at a time.

[James Petragallo]

And you have to then write. You also have to write down the series serial number of that bill. Every single bill. Wow. So this time Chuck drives near the spot. I10 and Canal Road. And guess what's sitting there?

[Jimmy Whisman]

A jacket.

[James Petragallo]

Blue jacket, right there. He leaves the money as instructed, on top of it, and drives away.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Still hasn't talked to his wife.

[James Petragallo]

Nope, hasn't talked to his wife yet. Now he must have at least Richard Jordan thinks he's lost the cop because he didn't see anybody behind him, didn't see anybody following. But what he doesn't know is the police were there before even he got there. Richard Jordan. The police got there early and are watching the whole thing. They watch him put the coat down. They watch him come get the money. Once he picks up the money, they spring on him. But before they can get to him, he gets in his car and speeds away with the money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Money.

[James Petragallo]

Not a good operation.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How far away were they?

[James Petragallo]

Not too close, apparently. Wow. So now he's flying down a Mississippi highway. Flying down the 1025,000 in highly marked serial eyes dropped incredibly traceable bills. Incredibly traceable. That's when a car comes up near him. And it's a police car. It's not a police car. It's an unmarked car. But Richard Jordan just sideswipes him. Fucking rams him into a ditch, okay? The car goes off into a ditch. The other car, not Richard Jordan's, somebody hops out of the car that went into the ditch and starts firing a.357 at the fleeing vehicle, which again, highly dangerous. Just bucking.357 shots into an open highway is crazy. Fucking insane. Imagine that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I think that's in the police of. Do not do that.

[James Petragallo]

Do not take large caliber fucking hand cannons and just fire them indiscriminately at mid morning. It's like 9:30 in the morning on a major highway. Rush hour traffic, just on a weekday, busting shots out. It hits the rear window of Jordan's car, shatters it out. But that's it. Car keeps going. So they didn't hit him, obviously, just hit the rear window. And this is. You could make a movie out of this. You can see the scenes. The glass shatters, he ducks down. He keeps driving. It's crazy. He keeps going. Problem is the impact bent his fender, okay? So now his fender is rubbing on the tire, which you're not gonna go that, that far on. Which kind of fucks the car up, up. And so he keeps going. Anyway, he later claims he didn't know who the two men were who came up next to him. That he sideswiped and were firing 357 shots at him. He said later on he thought it was two rednecks who came down on him with weapons and he, quote, hauled off and knocked their ass into a ditch.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He hauled off first and then got shot at though.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, couple of rednecks. The rednecks were a Harrison county deputy and an FBI agent. Those are the rednecks that were next to him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

One was probably a redneck.

[James Petragallo]

Yes. The other one was wearing a suit and tie with very shiny shoes, by the way. So in a. Cause this is like not a terrible shot, evidently. This is like mindhunter era. FBI from the show. Just look presentable and have shiny shoes is most of the job, basically. So these two guys, this is one of them, the deputy's name is Larkin Smith, who would later on become sheriff of the county and then a US Congressman.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

He's the guy who fired the.357 shot indiscriminately into a fucking highway.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And we went, let's make him a congressman.

[James Petragallo]

We should make him have more power to make decisions, this guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let us pencil his name on our ballot, please.

[James Petragallo]

Right. But they did get his tag number and they know his car. So they set up. They have his photo also, because they know he is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now we know who he is.

[James Petragallo]

So they set up roadblocks everywhere. Fucking everywhere. Anywhere out of this area, basically. Now Richard Jordan though, rather than trying to escape, he goes inward and goes to a shopping center and abandons his car in the shopping center. It's a late model brown four door Mercury. Okay, he had payments on that. That's terrible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Disable.

[James Petragallo]

It'll later be found abandoned at the Norwood Village, which is like a mall area basically. So what he does now is he hides the bulk of the money. He hides $23,500 and keeps $1,500 with him. There's varying accounts of where he hit it. Some people say it was the woods. Other people say it was in an abandoned car behind the store. Other people say it was behind a dumpster. There's all sorts of different stories about that. Things we do know is he takes $1,500 and goes into the shopping center, the Orange Grove Shopping center he went to. So he walks into a tgny which. Do you know what this is?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That sounds familiar.

[James Petragallo]

It's. Apparently it was a very southern, right? Very. I don't know where it was, but it was a very prominent chain back in the day. It says there the great American five and dimensions. Basically they have everything. Everything that you can imagine from gardening tools to ties.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Walmart destroyed them.

[James Petragallo]

Exactly, exactly. That type of thing. But they were the kind of an original version of that. So he walks around in there and you can find something because right now he knows that the cops know what he's wearing, they knew his car. So he's got to disguise himself. This is fucking amazing. So he buys a new outfit to wear. He buys a jumpsuit, which is an odd choice of something to wear for an escape. Like he's gonna get shot out of a cannon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now he is living by city, he may as well dress like it.

[James Petragallo]

Might as well dress like Trevor, I guess.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So he buys the jumpsuit. He buys though, that's fine. If it was like a, you know, like a workers coveralls or something, it'd be a dark green. He buys a bright red jumpsuit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, you're not saying tracksuit, you're saying jumpsuit.

[James Petragallo]

A jumpsuit, yeah. He buys a bright red jumpsuit. Because when I'm on the run and I want to blend in, I dress like Santa Claus. That's how I like to dress. Because that very inconspicuous.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I want to dress like it. May as well say Department of Corrections on the back.

[James Petragallo]

You might as well. Might as well, he puts it on in the store. I'll wear it out. Thank you. And then he calls a cab from inside the store. So the cab picks him up, picks up a man in a brand new red jumpsuit at the shopping center. And Richard Jordan tells the driver where he wants to go. Take me back to the Twin Star Motel. Now the driver, he doesn't know who this fucking guy is sitting back there. He's just talking and he's like, jesus Christ. He goes, man, we're going to have to take a bunch of back road. Goddamn cops got fucking roadblocks everywhere. It's a huge pain in the ass. If I'm gonna get you back to this hotel, we're gonna have to go back roads and shit. Because, quote, some fool kidnapped a banker's wife and now we're all suffering. Now we're all gotta fucking stop at roadblocks. So we're all inconvenienced. Some fool.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Does he have hubris? Is he pissed about that?

[James Petragallo]

We're not sure. Some fool.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

There's a better way to buy blinds, shades, shutters, and Draper. And it's called three Day Blinds. Three Day Blinds is the leading manufacturer of custom blinds, shades, shutters, and drapery. And we've been doing this for over 45 years, so we really know our stuff. Here's what makes us different. A professional design consultant comes right to your home with tons of samples, helps you pick the right style, takes precise measurements, and even handles the installation. No guesswork, no DIY disaster. Whether you want more privacy, better light control, or to upgrade your home with motorized or smart blinds, three Day Blinds has thousands of options to fit any style or budget. So for a free no charge, no obligation consultation, head to 3dayblinds.com podcast for our buy one, get one 50% off deal. That's the number 3D, a yblindds.com podcast.

[James Petragallo]

He's probably excited that he didn't know he was the fool. At least that helped.

[Jimmy Whisman]

At least they don't have my picture out there, obviously.

[James Petragallo]

Yep. At 1pm the cabbie runs out of back roads and they hit a roadblock. Uh oh, okay. So Richard's gonna try to be cool back here, you know what I mean? An officer looks in the backseat, immediately recognizes him. Cause the photograph has been circulated that much in the last hour and a half.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, and if you're at a roadblock, you know who you're looking for.

[James Petragallo]

You're looking for one guy. They all looked at the picture, they studied it. They're only looking for One guy. And they go, oh, you look just like that guy. So they pull him out of the car, he's arrested without a fight. Now, he's sure. Hands behind your back. That's exactly what he's told. And then the local police hand him right over to the FBI. Here you go. And that cab is gift wrapped.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I called him a fool to his face.

[James Petragallo]

He still owes me 12 bucks, by the way. Can you. Can someone give me my fare?

[Jimmy Whisman]

That fool.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Shit. So 2:00pm at the FBI office, he's read his rights. Now. He had already been read his rights on the way, but he reads his rights again, by the way. When he was read his rights en route to the FBI office, the FBI agent said that as he read them, Jordan recited them along with him excitedly, word for word, like they were singing a camp song or some shit. 99 bottles of beer on the wall they were doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You get verse two.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. You take one down, pass it around, and I'll keep track of the number. What do you say? So they read him his rights again. He says he understands them, signs a written waiver. So he's ready to talk, knows his rights first. He denies everything. I don't know what you're talking about. Yes, I'm sitting here in a red jumpsuit holding $1,400 in highly marked bills. Yeah, it was my car you rammed into. Or I rammed into you and shot at. And you have my voice calling and all this, but it's not me. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know shit. Then as it goes on, and they tell him, dude, seriously, saw you pick up the money. We watched you do it, bro. What are you talking about? He eventually just goes, all right, fuck it. Let me tell you what happened. He said, yeah, I made the ransom calls. That's me, anyway. Yeah, that's identical, he said. Then he takes out a piece of paper and draws them a map. Oh, maps everything out. Cause they're going. Their question is, where the fuck is Edwina?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right?

[James Petragallo]

That's all anyone's concerned with here. Where the fuck is Edwina? But they can't ask him that until they get him sat down and he signs that waiver. Even though it's nowadays. I think it would be different with extenuating circumstances. They have done certain things where. If you're trying to save. If there's a missing woman, you can

[Jimmy Whisman]

do a little bit more in furtherance of. Perhaps she's alive somewhere. We gotta make sure that health and wellbeing Is taken care of.

[James Petragallo]

Absolutely. But here, this is just, you know, he then draws this map.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

And he said, here's a map of where I've been and throw me in the car and let's go and I'll show you around.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petragallo]

Okay. The map's important. Cause it's drawn in his handwriting. He takes them, gets in the car, retraces his own, everything. He shows them where he hid the clothes he'd worn. Shows them where the money is. He shows them the abandoned car. He shows them the river where he threw his gun away.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, he doesn't have a gun anymore.

[James Petragallo]

Then he says, no, he didn't have a gun when he was running from the cops. He never had a gun. Then he says, now let me show you this logging road.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Uh.

[James Petragallo]

Oh. And they go, okay. And they take him out on this logging road, which is part of the map he drew. And on the logging road, they find Edwina.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petragallo]

And she's already dead. Yeah, already dead. She has a gunshot wound to the back of the head is what they find. She's face down with her hands behind her back, fully clothed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Execution.

[James Petragallo]

Yep. This is, you know, 24 hours later. They do the autopsy, and they said the bullet entered the right occipital skull, the lower back, right side of the head, like you pissed off the fucking Genovese crime family. And it traveled upward, right to left, back to front, and exited above the left eye. So went in here, exited here. That's what it was. A.38.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So they're like. Yeah, the bullets never recovered. Because the bullet, it was a through and through. Yeah. There was no singeing of the hair, so it's not a contact wound. Didn't have it pressed up, but it wasn't a distant one either. There was a distinct abrasion ring, a dark ring around the wound that's visible in photographs that shows bone fragments and powder residue do. So close enough to get powder burned, but not the actual singeing of the hair. The medical examiner decides in his reasonable medical probability, the shot was fired from within a matter of inches, at most two feet. So anywhere from two feet to two and a half feet maximum is how far away. Then another thing the medical examiner says is that Edwina was stationary and on her knees when the gun was fired. That's so shitty. That's just such a pussy thing to do, to shoot a fucking some lady in the back of the housewife. A housewife, yeah. This is crazy. So she didn't do anything to you? So this is what he says he did. This is what he tells the cops. Now we know what the medical examiner says, but this is his story because he says, fuck it, I'll tell you everything. And he does. Well, part of it anyway. Yeah. They said, did you put her in the trunk? And he said, no, I didn't throw her in the trunk. I put her behind the wheel of the car with a gun on her. And I made her drive herself. I made her drive about 30 odd miles out of town, out of the neighborhoods, all out, out into the pines. That's where I went. He said, I forced her to drive my car. They took the US 90 to the US 49, turned north, north, passing close to the Gulf National Building where Charles was working at the time. So she could see her goddamn husband's building. There's salvation or something. At least he can help me in some way. He then forced her to drive to a logging road north of East Wortham Road in Harrison County. It's a sparsely settled wooded area here off a logging road. There's nothing there, just Mississippi pine trees. That's. That's it. That's when he said he ordered her out of the car and he said that he was telling her that. He told her that she was going to stay here with his partner. I'm going to drop you off to somebody who'll keep an eye on you while I go and get money from your husband. And then once the husband gives me the money, then we will let you go. We're going to arrange a pickup point and we'll drop you off somewhere and then come get fair. So she got out of the car. That's what he's been telling her the whole way there. I'm taking you to my partner so I can do this. Now they get out of the car and she starts looking around and doesn't see anybody. She just sees. She's in the middle. She's in, you know, in casino where they fucking murder them. Yeah. She sees, holy fuck, this is not good. There's nobody else here. I'm just far away from any human beings that will hear a gunshot. Nobody there, there. Now, his version is this, okay? He said she ran, she saw there was no one else there and she fucking took off, started running. So he said he panicked at that point and fired a warning shot over her head to make her stop. But he hit her. Not over her head like just buzzing her head her into the air. He shot it up in the air. He said, oh, warning shot, boom. Come back. Okay, this Is amazing because he said she thought maybe if she thought he was shooting at her, she would stop running, she'd freeze, he said. But what happened was the bullet must have come down and hit her in the back of the head. That's his actual version of events. I shot into the air and then it. It came down.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. He and Lee Harvey shop in the same magic bullet store.

[James Petragallo]

This is. Oh, cr. This is way more of a magic.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is the most magic.

[James Petragallo]

This is like. I mean, Jesus Christ. Imagine you shoot in the air and it goes boom, right into the person you were trying to fire a warning shot away from. That's insane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's like the bullets from Roger Rabbit.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's the cartoon bullets. That's exactly what it is. So he said it was a terrible, awful accident, A stupid thing to do just to do this kidnapping to begin with. But this murder was not a murder. This was a accident, A complete accident.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. So this is. I don't think he. I don't think he knew. He must not have known the track of the bullet because a bullet coming down is not going to hit you in the back of the head and then go back up again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They rarely fly like a magic. A wacky.

[James Petragallo]

Like a wacky straw.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They don't go up.

[James Petragallo]

No. It's like, yeah, his bullet's like a loopy straw. Like it just does all sorts of crazy things. Chocolate milk going everywhere. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Zigs and zags, babe.

[James Petragallo]

He also said that his plan was he was going to tie her hands to a tree with his necktie and then leave her there while he collected the money and then come back and let her go. That was the plan. She had to go run away. And then this morning, shot thing happen. So they're like, okay, that's funny because you brought no rope, no blindfold, you didn't even bring a fucking. An orange juice for this lady. You didn't bring anything for a hostage to survive or to be able to do anything. No safe house. You just brought a gun, a tie, that's it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And a hostage.

[James Petragallo]

And a hostage. Now the state has a different version. The state's version, based on evidence and not self serving horseshit, it is that he made her kneel down, put the muzzle about 6 to 8 inches from the back of her skull and fucking executed her, period. That's it. Body was found face down, hands behind her back. And they said, that's it. There's no warning shot. It was just an execution, period. Done. That's it. That's the state's version. They even get an investigator who's a blood spatter expert. And he testifies that later on we'll tell the medical examiner too, that the spatter shows she was motionless when she got shot. So by the way, back to the murder day here, okay? He shoots her. She's lying face down on the logging road. He shot her well before he made the first ransom call.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He didn't even have her.

[James Petragallo]

He never had her when he talked to Chuck, ever. He picked her up, they drove out there, he shot her. That was it. And then he made the phone call.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is a man with zero. And then what?

[James Petragallo]

Casey Anthony's hallway.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His whole life is Casey pressed up

[James Petragallo]

against the fucking brick at the end of the hallway. And he's still walking, though, like in a video game, when your character just keeps going. That's what's going on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He can smell the drywall mud. And he's just still going.

[James Petragallo]

No. So what does he do after the murder?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What does he do, go to the motel?

[James Petragallo]

No, not at all. Once you've murdered somebody, you go to the movie theater and watch Death Wish.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petragallo]

That's what you do?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that what he did?

[James Petragallo]

The go and you watch Death Wish with Charles Bronson? Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's new. You gotta get there for the crowds.

[James Petragallo]

By the way, Charles Bronson played a mild mannered New York architect in that movie. Which is exactly what I think of when I see Charles Bronson, don't you?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He was mild mannered. Whatever. He was in every move.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, because that's his only move, acting wise.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's his baseline.

[James Petragallo]

That's his baseline. But anyway, his wife is murdered and his daughter is assaulted, raped in a home invasion. And he responds by getting a revolver and just basically going out into the street and executing anyone he sees that he doesn't like the looks of. He turns into a way worse person than any of those people. He kills way more people. And then they make like eight of those movies too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So many.

[James Petragallo]

And then dudes in their like 40s, in the 80s sat there jerking off to it because they're like, God, I hate black people too. They're jerking it to it because that's all it was. That's all those movies were.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If only, if only it was a 6, 6 foot 4 white guy that fought terribly. I'd watch the shit out of those too.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, that's great. And as a kid, I thought those movies were great. I didn't know it was just a bunch of fucking violence. We loved all Those movies, Anything like that? It's action. Yeah. Shit's blowing up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Cool.

[James Petragallo]

Bloodsport. Put it on. Great. Let's watch them fight.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a terrible movie that is.

[James Petragallo]

Of course it's bad. It's awful. We loved all that shit when we were little. Thought it was great and there was

[Jimmy Whisman]

a love story mixed in.

[James Petragallo]

You got to bring the ladies in, Jimmy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jean Claude's got to get his dick wet.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He's got to show his bare ass. At some point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's got to be a reason for all this blood.

[James Petragallo]

It's pussy. It's obviously pussy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Revenge for his brother's death. And pussy.

[James Petragallo]

Not necessarily in that order, by the way. That's the other thing. It might be, come what may, you never know. So back to him in police custody. It's 4:45 before he's taken to a county judge who tells him he's charged with a capital offense. Now he says he wants to wait for a lawyer. So the judge appoints a lawyer. Rhett Russell is his name. At about 5:30, another investigator who is over at the county jail and has been there on the case for three hours has no idea that she. Jordan, just asked the judge for counsel, doesn't know this. He walks in, fingerprints him, photographs him and starts talking to him because he has no idea that he's already asked for a lawyer. About 6pm, another officer arrives, Mirandizes Richard again and then turns on a tape recorder and asks him to fucking repeat a story. So he confesses again, exactly the same story he told the first time. I kidnapped her, I took her out. I shot in the air. It accidentally hit, yada, yada, yada. They type it all up, get it ready, exactly what he said. And he refuses to sign it. Cops probably aren't the best typists. I'd be like, you motherfu. Know how fucking long it just took me?

[Jimmy Whisman]

It was hunt and peck.

[James Petragallo]

To hunt and peck this out, I will.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There was a Yank it out, feed a new paper in several times.

[James Petragallo]

You're going to sign it or eat it. Those are your options because it ain't

[Jimmy Whisman]

easy to see the new Bronson.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, one of the two. But he refuses to sign it. Now, the next day, January 14, 1976, they send divers out to find his gun. And this is one of the craziest things that's ever happened on our show before, okay? They send scuba divers out and we don't know. Some sources credit the Gulfport Police. Some say it's the fire department, okay? And it's important because of what they do because it's fucking crazy. They dive in, they find the.38.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

They find a.38 in the fucking water. Which is incredible, number one. But the craziest shit is, this is the Big Biloxi River. They find it in a river, okay?

[Jimmy Whisman]

So it moves.

[James Petragallo]

So when the diver found it, for some reason. And I have a picture I will post on the social media of this. Whoever took the picture has the most amazingly timed shot. It's perfect. The fucking guy comes out of the water with the gun and fires it into the air.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Did it work? Yes.

[James Petragallo]

There is a picture of him with his hand in the air and fucking flames. You know, spark and flames shooting out of the gun, visible in the photograph.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What an asshole.

[James Petragallo]

First of all, fucking idiot. And then it came down and killed a lady 10ft away. Obviously, as will happen. And Jordan was like, I told you. See? Fucking told you guys. Call me a liar. He fired it into the fucking air. As he surfaced. It wasn't like he came up with, let me see if it works. He popped up and was like. Which must have scared the shit out of everybody. Not only did he pop out of the water, but fired a fucking shot off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm sure it scared the shit out of him, too. I'll bet he feels like a real bozo.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, no shit. So they said that there was only two rounds in the gun. That was the second round.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

Fired from that. And the prosecutor later on will say this means that Jordan shot Edwina, then cocked the hammer again in case she wasn't dead, then closed the hammer. That's what they say.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So it rolled the bull. Okay.

[James Petragallo]

It rolled the chamber.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Rolled the chamber over.

[James Petragallo]

Yes. So that's why it fired. When you come up, maybe don't hold it by the trigger.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, maybe keep your finger off.

[James Petragallo]

Hang on to that handle. Maybe the front here even. It's fine. The second one, though, was still in the chamber. So obviously the people around here freak out. This is a very upstanding. The country club, the yacht club, vice president of a bank, all this shit. So there's an article here saying, how do we answer all the questions? This comes out the next day. They say that the neighbors of Edwina and Chuck Martyr, whose children played with their children or visiting nephews and were in and out of their homes on Southern Circle, are all wondering the same thing. How do we answer our children's millions of questions on why this had to happen to such a good, sweet, happy person as Mrs. Marder? One mother whose daughter babysits for the Martyrs said she was asked, how are they going to explain it to Eric and Kevin? Those are the kids there. Some of the children knew before their parents did that something was wrong and that Mrs. Martyr was missing from the home. That's because they were questioned by officers while they were playing basketball out there. They said all the residents were concerned. Nearly all feel the act was not a happenstance and that it was a fully planned and executed, carefully planned.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So they're saying it's a well orchestrated event.

[James Petragallo]

They think this is like. This must be like some crazy international cabal of, you know something, another one's coming. Oh. Everyone who lives on the Circle agrees it's not an easy area to find from the scenic drive. Unless one drives up into the Circle for some distance, he would not know there are homes located in that area. He said they had to have known something about us. When our children go to school, when the carpools leave, who's at home and who is not. They said young mothers want to know also if Edwina Martyr was selected at random, and if so, why not one of them?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Them.

[James Petragallo]

Your husband's not doing well enough. That's why. Literally, he just called. He said, let me. Who has money? People who work at banks. Let me call a bank, ask for someone important and then go to his house. He must have money. It was that simple.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Saying, if you don't have any money, take your broke ass home.

[James Petragallo]

Take your broke ass home. I think it was. Yeah, I can hear Fergie saying that. Dumb shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, I can see. I can just hear as a group of people.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So that's what's going on here. They're like, why not me? I'm not good enough. So they said the Circle is occupied by professional people. Some bankers, some lawyers, some doctors, others retired, others owning business firms. Well, that's not the idea. He just said money is in banks. Right Nearby, neighbors and a mother who'd been in a carpool with Mrs. Marder for two years said she was one of the finest, sweetest and dearest of persons. She was always smiling, always pleasant. She always had the most radiant smile and just made you feel good to be around her. They said she was a home person. They said with a small one. You have to be, one of the mothers said. She said she had many friends who did not live in the Circle, whom she played bridge with all the time as well.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There you go.

[James Petragallo]

Bridge, bridge. The old lady game. They said she was always friendly and frequently came over to our adjoining patio to talk in the Late afternoon, as they watched the children play, they said she was very active and interested in the Catholic school that her older son attended. And one of the nuns at the school called one of the mothers crying and asked to be told it wasn't true. Men in the circle are concerned also for the safety of their families. Mothers feel that their children should be able to grow up in an atmosphere without locks and bolts, without having to know every minute that their children are in their homes or their friends homes, you know, life knowing exactly where your kid. They're like, I should be able to just have my kid go outside, not know where he is for four hours. Then he comes home alive. That's it. That should be it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Every night one man told the paper, I'm very concerned for my wife. I'm always gone from 8:30am I live

[James Petragallo]

in the big blue house up there in the back of the circle there. I'm gone from 8:30 to 5 and I can't even be reached. I mean I am gone, gone off the map. And if anyone tries to kidnap her, they'll have to kill her. I know it. They will have to kill her. She's not gonna go lightly. So, you know, I understand.

[Jimmy Whisman]

My pain in the ass. I mean my wife, I love her so dear.

[James Petragallo]

I love her so dearly. The mother of my children.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She said I have lots of life insurance on her.

[James Petragallo]

That's how much she means to me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah,

[James Petragallo]

because it's. Her life means nothing that much to me. It means a lot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

$50,000 ransom. I'll pay it tomorrow.

[James Petragallo]

Tomorrow?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, just to get her back.

[James Petragallo]

I need to have her here. The article says they also feel that there's a lot more to the events surrounding the kidnapping that is being revealed. That they, as neighbors and friends should be briefed by officials on the circumstances under which she was abducted. They want to know what they can do, how they can protect themselves and their children. If there were any past connections with the accused man in Martyrs Bank. Well, number one thing is when someone knocks, go, who is it? And then don't leave them just from. No, he has no. Call the electric company, see if there's actually a guy that comes to your

[Jimmy Whisman]

door or inquire further. Yeah, don't take their word for it. Also, if it's beyond the meter, the power company doesn't give a fuck. No, if you've got bad circuit breakers, they don't fucking care. That's your problem.

[James Petragallo]

You think she knows beyond the meter and all that. As a housewife in 1973, you worked at the electric company. I didn't know what that meant until you told me. The fuck no one knows that. So.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Either way, though, that's ask. I mean, but back then that was considered crazy. To not open the door for someone who knocked. It's just right. It'd be like kind of rude. It's the phone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

You're a weirdo and a crazy person. Yeah, It'd be like not answering the phone. Who the fuck doesn't answer the phone? Whereas now it's like, obviously, I'm not answering that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I saw the curtains move. They looked to see who it was and then they didn't answer the door. Piece of shit.

[James Petragallo]

Think you're invited to bridge night next time. Fuck that. So they were asked if they were disturbed by being called during the dinner hour by the press. And one woman said, we're not eating much tonight. This is nightmarish. It has left its mark on the children. It's hard to explain to them why these things happen. We are all emotionally ill and we are physically ill. Our hope is that the guilty party will be punished and will not be allowed to get out of this. So that many, and so many seem to be do as so many seem to be doing throughout the country. The laws seem to favor them and not those who are hurt. We have anguished all night and all day over this and want to be informed. They said the residents of the Circle who had been in constant contact with each other by telephone, think that maybe they should get large dogs and let them roam the Circle at night. What is this, a junkyard? You've now turned your beautiful neighborhood into a junkyard with snarling dogs hunting people if they. They try to take their trash to the curb. Are you adding that?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, it's either that James, or the congressman lets us have our tigers like

[James Petragallo]

we have one of the two.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

How about get dogs and keep them in your house? And this happened at 2 in the afternoon, so having them run, roam the night won't matter at all. That's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And why won't your kids eat their Dino Nugs? Why are you telling the kids so much?

[James Petragallo]

Well, back then they were probably making them eaten liver. There's no Dino Nugs back then. We're having Liverpool. I don't want liver. Pow. And they just smack you one until you ate liver. This was a practice in the Circle several years ago until there was a mass poisoning of dogs. A case that has still not been solved. They used to let dogs just run in the Circle to protect their houses. And then someone poisoned them all because they probably got bit trying to take their goddamn garbage out. Which still don't poison dogs, obviously, lay on their grass. Good God. So pretrial here, they're going to take him to trial. He wants his confession or confessions thrown out. The second confession, the taped one, which is taken after he'd asked for a lawyer, that's the big one. They're going to say, well, they want to use the tape as a confession in court. And that was after he was already asked for a lawyer. So that shouldn't be allowed in Jordan here. Richard Jordan said, I feel sure that I did tell him that I had an attorney appointed for me, meaning the person who was questioning him. But the agent who was questioning him said, Jordan never said a word about a lawyer. He just talked and the tape backs him up because the recording's running the whole time. And there's nothing about a fucking lawyer. He never says shit about a lawyer ever in the whole thing. He was Mirandized at least five times before this guy walked in, too. So the confession is allowed in. The main reason is because he already said the exact same thing before they got there. But it's a little controversial to allow the tape in. But they're gonna allow the tape in, I would think, because it's after the whole. The only reason they're doing it is because it was the exact same thing he said before, but it was after he was appointed a lawyer. And at that point, whatever. But he's also a free human being who has free will to speak if he wants to, even if he's been appointed a lawyer. Even if the lawyer speaks. Said the lawyer came in, sat next to him and said, don't say shit. And he said, fuck you, and said, everything. It's fine. You're in charge of your own shit. So it gets in there. And it didn't matter because it's accumulative anyway. They would have had all the notes of him confessing the first time. So it's very interesting. So then we'll get more to this later. This is not allowed in now. Later on we'll talk about it. Jordan's gonna claim that the FBI agent Frank Wall Watts, threatened to throw him out of the window of the building. Uh, oh, toss him out the window while he was cuffed.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

Then Jordan asked this. This is amazing. Richard Jordan, this guy's a real asshole. He said that, I'd like to take a polygraph to clear myself, but I'll take a polygraph if all the Officers also have to take a polygraph.

[Jimmy Whisman]

About what?

[James Petragallo]

About what happened in that room. And the judge said, well, no polygraph is admissible here anyway. So it really doesn't matter. Your beef with their weird. Whatever the fuck you're doing, that's all on you. And I don't care.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't want either of your polygraphs. Sit the fuck down.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, shut up. I'll believe you. That's what we do with a jury here. They're the polygraph. The jury. So then there's a psychiatrist. I, Dr. Clifton Davis here. Jordan himself asks to be evaluated. He's examined at the Gulf Coast Health center in Gulfport. Then he moved to be examined at Mississippi State Hospital instead. He wanted to do that, but he got denied by the court. Now his Clifton Davis. This doctor, Dr. Davis diagnoses him as a, quote, sociopath personality. Saying he's competent, understood the charges, is able to assist counsel, able to distinguish right from wrong. So sane. Sane, but a dick, basically, is what he said.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's an asshole.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He noted that Jordan may give or withhold information to cast himself in the best light. The doctor also said. Then he said that this is what he told me me. Because he said that he talked freely in the room with the psychiatrist. That's what the doctor said. He said that. The doctor said. He boasted about how he thought he was going to, quote, beat the rap. Oh, he's going to beat it. They're never going to get him. He claimed that he has a 145IQ, so he's smart. He knows what he's doing. He claimed he'd always been a good conman. He described. Described shitloads of illegal activities that he never got caught for. Just stuff. He described the embezzlement with the fertilizer people. He describes sitting down and working out a plan. Including involving robbery, kidnapping and extortion. And then he said the main thing that's wild, this is there's delusional, like, I'm gonna blame other people for my shortcomings. And then there's this crazy shit he told the psychiatrist. You know, it's really the FBI's fault that Edwin is dead.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If they hadn't been there.

[James Petragallo]

Well, he said if they followed the car and they were around the drop and they made me nervous. So if they didn't go around making me nervous, I wouldn't have killed her. So it's really their fault, if you think about it. He said that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

And then another psychiatrist, later on, he'll just say he didn't do it at all and we'll get to that. But it's crazy. So his defense team, he starts saying, well, I had an accomplice. I had an accomplice. His defense team won't even use that because they're like, that's not believable. We're not using that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can't do that.

[James Petragallo]

No other person has been mentioned here. There is a change of venue out of the county because the coverage was pretty fucking heavy, as you can imagine. Rich lady gets murdered and kidnapped from her home, for Christ's sake. So they tried it in Pascagoula. Um, the jury selection is July 19th. The trial lasts three days. It's a five man, seven woman jury. And not only were fucking everything, everybody's name and address in the fucking phone book. If you were on a jury before it even started. The jurors, the jurors are Carolyn Pino, Daniel G. Pruitt, Mrs. Frances, Fay Smith, Donald Foster, Dorothy Guy, Donny Ray Walter. The list goes on. Yeah, that's crazy. Their names are right there. This is the. Okay. I think the prosecutor. I was really impressed with the ease with which the jury was selected. They said, I was impressed that there was not the first juror who said that they have a fixed opinion as to the innocence or guilt. So none of the jurors, even the ones that knew about the case, said, I don't have any opinion on it. Which to me is just a lie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. If you've heard of it, you've got

[James Petragallo]

an opinion, you've got an opinion. Absolutely. And that's just also a kind of a 1975 Southern thing. Like, I mean, I ain't judging nobody. I ain't gonna pass judgment.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tell me not to.

[James Petragallo]

So the prosecution opening, they say, very simply, quote, he shot Edwina Martyr in the back of the head. She fell down with a Kleenex in her left hand and her right hand cupped Kleenex because she was crying. She was scared. The.38 caliber projectile entered or exited the front of her head above the left eye. She was murdered on that logging road. They also bring in a handwriting expert, Dr. Donald E. Stagnall, an FBI handwriting expert that identified Jack Wilson and Jordan as having the same handwriting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Same guy.

[James Petragallo]

What a coincidence. Jordan obviously used Jack Wilson at the hotel. The expert made the finding after comparing blow up copies of Jordan's handwriting with Wilson, quote, unquote, registration card there. Then there's a cross examination by the defense where there's a lengthy explanation of a number of differences between the handwriting samples. And the guy said there are variations, but not differences. Differences. There's a difference. He said variations add to the identification, not take away from them. So these actually identify them more because they're very specific variations. So then they have the psychiatrist here that he was examined by. And they said that he has a sociopathic personality, but is capable of understanding the charges against him and can assist counsel and is just fine. He stated that he might withhold information, just like I said before, to cast himself in a good light and all that kind of thing. The doctor said that in his opinion, he is capable of distinguishing right and wrong and assisting counsel. Said he talked freely about how he thought he was going to beat the rap and how he had 145 IQ. So he just sounds like an asshole is what he sounds like to the jury at that point. The defense had his own expert here, Dr. Leroy Riddick, who said that you couldn't tell how far away Edwina was when she was shot. So she could have been. He said she could have been as far as 30 yards away or as close as three feet.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, fine.

[James Petragallo]

But how do you get the burns? I would even look from 30ft away,

[Jimmy Whisman]

if they want to put it that way. It doesn't matter to me. Point is, she was on her knees, 30 yards. I don't care how far away he was. She was. She was in a prone position. She wasn't running from anybody.

[James Petragallo]

No. Well, this is murder. Yeah, absolutely. But this is their. The defense's case is she was running away and he fired a warning shot, whereas. Not true. She's on her knees and it's from two feet away. So. Horseshit. Yeah. And they also asked this guy, they said, wasn't he a marksman?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right?

[James Petragallo]

Like, didn't he an expert marksman?

[Jimmy Whisman]

They said, well, with a.38, unless it's

[James Petragallo]

a long barrel, you can't hit those snub noses. Or they said, could. A marksman shot her from 10 yards. And this guy said he had no knowledge of his abilities as a marksman and wouldn't opine outside, outside of the physical evidence. So. Okay, now, this is the closing here, or. Yeah. Half hour statement from the prosecution. They said Edwina Martyr had a right to live. And this guy, by the way, I mean, he put some emotion. He had a handkerchief in his hand the whole time, acting like he was best friends with Edwiner, basically, the prosecutor. He knew her, though. That's the other thing. A bunch of them knew her. He used it to dab tears from his eyes as he described the Martyr family's loss.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a nice man.

[James Petragallo]

He's good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He gives a shit at least.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, he's so teary eyed. Good lord. So he said, citing consideration given in the courts for Jordan's rights, he says, my God, what rights did Edwina Martyr have that day? He said that the claim that the deadly wound was made by a warning shot is a cock and bull story. It's a cock and ball story is what that is. He said he was the judge, he was the jury, he was her lawyer, he was her prosecutor, and he was also her executioner out there. That day on Turin Road, he threw

[Jimmy Whisman]

two new roles in that same lawyer. You only need three for it to really have the same prosecutors.

[James Petragallo]

He's got a lawyer, but because he's

[Jimmy Whisman]

a lawyer, he's got to throw the lawyers in there.

[James Petragallo]

He had a whole trial with this person. Trial. He said, Gerald Jordan's family will not have to run up and down the road looking for his body. The body will be turned over to them. It will not be left for the birds of the air and for the beasts of the fields to feast upon the beasts too. Wow. Yeah. In reference to a statement that his attorney saying Jordan was sick, he said, I say he's not a sick man. I say he's. He's a greedy man. Did you notice how cool and calculated and cold that he was on the tapes making demands? Come on. So after the prosecution does their closing, the defense goes, I think we're about done here, right, Judge? Let's get a directed verdict of not guilty so we can all just go home. Obviously they have not presented their case clearly. We'll all just go home now. The judge was like, what are you out of your fucking mind? Confession, shins and everything else. So he moved for a directed verdict, which is so funny. He alleged the state had not met the burden of proof. His lawyer there, Russell, at that time also moved that the defense be allowed to give the final closing statement if they're not going to have a directed verdict. He cited a scene from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar in which Brutus speech to the crowd was turned against him by a speech by Octavian, which followed his brain, which followed his Brutus defense of the murder of Caesar. What he said, I could come out and tell you a good defense and then this guy can come out and turn it all around. So I want to have the last word.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, haven't you all seen Julius Caesar?

[James Petragallo]

You've all read Shakespeare, all of it, right. But you'd assume, like the lawyers probably Have. Because they went to college and shit. So they're not idiots like us. So the defense. They're not uncultured douchebags like us. Yeah. Now, defense. Well, there's something from it, actually. The defense closing here. They say, the case has been like a nightmare to me. That's what the defense attorney said.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. This is the most impossible thing I've ever done.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He said, no human being in the world has more right than I do to talk about the death penalty. Don't know why he said that. Well, then you're gonna figure it out. He picked up the murder weapon and told the jury, this gun right here is turned at the head of my client just as surely as it is loaded. He criticized laws allowing sales of guns to quote anyone with a sick mind, which, yeah, maybe if he wasn't allowed to go get a.38 so easily, this wouldn't happen is what he's saying.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But he had a 12 gauge or 16 gauge. He had a shotgun that could have easily done just as much damage or worse.

[James Petragallo]

You can't knock on the door with a 16 gauge shotgun in your hand and say, you work for the electric company. That's the case.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can't cut the pocket out of your pants and stuff that down the leg.

[James Petragallo]

People see you with a shotgun, they know, hey, I might have to run. If you got it untucked, it's not as easy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Very rare for them to carry that.

[James Petragallo]

Very rare. He then says this quote, in my church, we live with the memory of 6 million people dragged screaming to the gas chambers because. Because the law in that country and the highest court in that country said it was the law. You're comparing this guy to the Holocaust? Literally innocent people ripped from their homes and fucking taken to a concentration camp. This guy went out and kidnapped a woman for ransom.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Does he pull this in everything that he defends?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Compares everything to the Holocaust. My client jaywalk? Sure. Sure, he did. But my people were taken to the gas chamber. And I don't feel like he should have to suffer the same fate. It's a $50 fine, sir. We're just trying.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't care. Six million Jews didn't die for this.

[James Petragallo]

They did not die for my client to not be able to walk across the street in a free country. A free country, mind you. Free. Wow. Oh, man.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Somebody trafficked a little heroin. Six million Jews are dead.

[James Petragallo]

Does that mean nothing to you people? Are you heartless? Do you have no hearts or minds? My God.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not fair that Goebbels existed.

[James Petragallo]

No. He said, in my heart of hearts, I have never believed from the first day that I met this man that this man is a normal man. Yeah. He said, he's calm and he's quiet and has never shown one iota of emotion to me about anything. He is sick. If he has anything. He's a sick man. He said, this man has been diagnosed as a sociopath. You know this is improper. And his voice was so hoarse that he could barely go on as he called for the abolition of the death penalty. He says what we ought to do with Richard Jordan is no worse than what was done. Oh, that was right. That's somebody else. That's the prosecutor. Okay. He said. The prosecutor said that? No. He said, the prosecutor says what we ought to do to Richard Jordan is no worse than what was done to Mrs. Martyr. I submit to you that if you bring in a verdict against my client. The prosecutor's right. It's not different. You're a murderer, too. So why are you better? Just because it's a bad guy. And that's my point. Always. We're murdered. What are we talking about? We're all killed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Himself.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He then attacked the idea of a death for death retribution. He said, I am not advocating this man should go forth on the street. If you're unable to reach a verdict, my client will remain in custody. I will find someone who is willing to something. He says, if the capital punishment is not abolished, all the world will ever give is death for death. The spark of his life is holy. This man needs help about as much as any human being I've ever encountered. Am I advocating this man be convicted? No, I am not. I am advocating that this man should go forth on the streets. Surely you know that I'm not. I only ask that you remember the words of a good man that I even was able to read and understand. He said, they say unto you, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and a life for a life. But I say unto you. And at that point, he said, please think about it, and walked to his seat. The prosecution said. He fucking said he shot her. And it came down that way. It's crazy. It's an upward shot. Obviously, he executed her. And they said, every item of proof we had in this case reveals a diabolical plan of an intelligent schemer. That's more accurate. I agree with some of the death penalty shit, but this guy's right. That guy's. He's not sick. He's just a monster.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He said, with defense attorney is swinging for the fences.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, the Holocaust, look at your Bibles. I mean he's swinging for anything. And I don't think telling the whole jury you're a Jew in Mississippi is probably going to endear you like you think it is in 1975 or today probably. So he said he pulled out that.38 caliber pistol and within seconds Edwina lay dead in those woods. This is to me what makes this crime so reprehensible, so unforgettable. The woman lay dead in the woods. At this point, Richard Gerald Jordan begins to plot to get money from Charles Martyr. He said that he's a desperate man with demands for a ransom. He's trying to do anything in the world to regain his wife. Martyriz. And he said, I don't know what else we could have presented to you to make this any fucking clearer basically. So that's it. He said, what do you want? Basically? That's all. All he said. What was three year old Kevin Martyr saying? I want my mommy. I want my mommy. He was never to see his mommy again. And he wiped tears from his eyes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Kid answered the phone. Martyr residents.

[James Petragallo]

Martyr residents. We're gonna be martyrs. He said, life is like a football game. You get a set of rules to go by. Richard Gerald Jordan has had 30 years of his life to play by the rules. I'm asking you to take Richard Gerald Jordan out of the ball game and out of the game because he didn't play by the rules. Bench him, put him free agency for this guy, put him on waivers. He said, I've never seen a case with so much overwhelming evidence. He said that gun is all that shit and blah blah, blah. So the prosecutors, what they also do, okay, In Mississippi in 1976, this murder, there is one penalty for it and one penalty only. And it's automatic. There's no penalty phase. If you're found guilty, they go guilty and death sentence and goodbye. And that's kind of how they used to do it in old England and shit. They would do like that and then you'd appeal the death sentence to try to get to life. So I'm talking like 1900s even, not that, that far. So the prosecutor, Owen is a smart fucking guy, this guy. He urged that the court follow the Florida process which has one jury decide guilt and another evaluating extenuating circumstances or things like that to possibly get the death sentence or a life sentence. He goes, because the way some court decisions have come down, this is the way it should be done. So he says that he Urged the court to follow the Georgia procedure, which leaves final discretion on sentencing to the judge. But the jury recommends a sentence.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Florida, you mean, or Georgia.

[James Petragallo]

No, that's the Georgia way. The other way is two separate juries. The Georgia way is the jury decides within the judge's final say. So he said, you could do either one of those. The judge said, after the trial is over, I might consider using the Georgia procedure. But then doesn't at all. July 21, 1976. The jury's out for four hours. They come back guilty of capital murder. Now, this is an automatic death sentence. No penalty phase, no mitigation, no weighing. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty, period. Holy. That's it. But like we said, the prosecutors actually discuss filing a motion to give him a separate punishment hearing. But the judge, when they said we might do that, said, I found no legal basis for it. I'd be making up a procedure. I can't make up a procedure that's gonna be very appealable. So death penalty. Okay, now let's rewind a few weeks before that. That was 7-21-1976, which is less than six months, or six months after the murder, which is pretty impressive. Or seven months, very fast. 7-2-76. Couple weeks before this, the U.S. supreme Court held that mandatory death sentences were unconstitutional in cases out of North Carolina and Louisiana. So they even. That's why the guy said, hey, let's not just automatically do this because it's going to get thrown out. We're all wasting our time here. October 5, 1976. Mississippi Supreme Court decides Jackson versus State, which creates bifurcated trials in Mississippi capital cases, which, if you don't know, means that one jury decides the guilt or innocence, another jury decides the penalty, or at least whether you get the death Penalty or not. October 27, 1976. Jordan's motion for a new trial is sustained. And there you go. Death sentence gone. 98 days later, fucking gone. So now he has to go to do a whole new trial. Not just a whole new trial, whole new guilt phase, whole new punishment phase. Because everything was predicated on if he's guilty, he's getting the death penalty. So strategies might have been different and all that, so they got to clean the slate.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Holy shit.

[James Petragallo]

All new. It's the exact same trial. Exact same. You would think that a defense team would see what didn't work and then do something different. They did the exact same thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, I feel like that group wasn't very red. I think these people know history, and we're going Jew Approach again.

[James Petragallo]

Some of these people might be World War II buffs. That's all I'm saying.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Gotta go heavy on the Jew stuff.

[James Petragallo]

So verdict guilty again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Okay. Sentencing that day, by the way. The defense attorney tells the jury that Jordan's been a good person until he was about. About 30. Then something happened to him. I don't know what he said. He, quote, was and remains a sick man. They call his parents, they call a prison chaplain who's been praying with him. The prosecution cross examines the chaplain, which I don't know what. You cross examine a prison chaplain about

[Jimmy Whisman]

whether or not he's got the next ticket stubs.

[James Petragallo]

I guess.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sleepers. Sorry.

[James Petragallo]

No, yes, I did. Yeah. Yeah. They don't. They don't cross examine his parents, though. Yeah. Jury deliberations. Now, that night, the jury is deliberating. They come back into the court after hours and say there's one juror who's not in favor of the death penalty here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just one. And that's all it takes.

[James Petragallo]

That's a broken thing. So the defense moves for a mistrial, and it's denied. The judge says, get back in there and fucking pick something. Which is rough.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Has to be unanimous, huh?

[James Petragallo]

Huh? Yep. Which is good. It should be. But then they go back in. They go back in for a few hours. And also the district attorney asked the defense counsel if there's a motion for a mistrial at this point, because the judge is forcing them to go back in. They said, do you want to go ahead and file a mistrial? You want to go ahead and move for that? Because we're into that. He said, basically, we'll agree to it, is what he said. Said. And the defense said, nah, we're good. Offered a mistrial. And they said, now we're good.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Huh.

[James Petragallo]

Wow. And they might have looked at the jury. The only thing you can think of is they looked at the jury and thought, that one holdout, he's gonna hang on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's never gonna do it.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, we're gonna get a life sentence. An hour later they came back. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Convince them.

[James Petragallo]

Convinced them. All 12. They all said death. Okay, now we gotta go through this rather quickly because there's a wild. This is the most insane fucking post sentencing, whatever shit ever. Okay, so now that's re. Sentenced to death.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Okay. November 22, 1978. The Mississippi Supreme Court affirms this case. The Court's summary was 29 years old, former member of the Iraq armed forces, who, out of desire to obtain money abducted Mrs. Marder at gunpoint and shot her, then continued with what the court called his grotesque scheme. They ate his lunch for him. This appeals court also. They said that the death penalty, they ruled, was neither wanton nor freakish. The judge said that the record clearly revealed reveals to us that any jury instruction considering a lesser offense was neither warranted nor justified by the evidence. No rational bias or basis appears upon which the jury could have acquitted Jordan or found him guilty of any lesser offense. So they said he brought her from home after deceitfully pretending to be representing a utility company, then took her at gunpoint into the woods and shot her. Afterwards, he played the ransom game with Mr. Martyr, his victim's husband, for many hours, with Jordan assuring Martyr that Mrs. Martyr was still safe and, well, anyway, keep on keeping on. Asshole. Execution set for January 9, 1980. All set for that shit. They're ready to go, but there's a problem. The court grants him a stay of execution on December 2. Second, they give him a stay of execution, saying that I guess he exhausted all appeals. There's something with the U.S. district Court. They just want to basically send it out, give him another chance at Appeals. Now, by 1980, Chuck and the kids have moved on. They've left the area. They moved to Lafayette, Louisiana. Chuck's going to end up remarrying a few times, by the way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. He remarries. Eric will later say that none of them were mother figures to him, which I don't know how anybody would be. If your mother was murdered like that, that'd be hard. So. He also said that he thinks Chuck got stricter after the murder. Even more strict than hard on them. He says he can't be sure, but he was a kid, and his father never talked about it. He said his father would not talk about what happened, ever, with the kids. He said that it's not a. He said that my mother's death was not a topic of conversation with my father ever. Wouldn't do it. Which is. You gotta talk to your kids about that, I would think. But you're so broken up, I guess, you know?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

1982, August here. A federal appeals court Friday upheld the murder conviction, but ordered prosecutors to reconsider whether he should get the death penalty. Okay. A fifth U.S. circuit Court of Appeals ruled the case of Richard Gerald Jordan, who was convicted in the kidnapping. He was appealing US District Court, US District Judge Harold Cox's reversal, a refusal to overturn his second conviction and death sentence. The appeals court said there apparently may be merit to Jordan's claims that he did not intend beforehand to kill Mrs. Martyr. And therefore the state court trial erred in the charge to the jury about malice aforethought. So basically the difference between premeditated and not, they're saying maybe it wasn't premeditated. The court instructs the jury that the malice aforethought mentioned in the indictment does not have to exist in the mind of the defendant for any length of time, so long as it exists at the time of the alleged act. He said, the court instructs the jury that malice aforethought is premeditation to commit an act without legal justification or. Excuse me. So the Fifth Circuit Court does this. They affirm the conviction, they affirm the confession, ruling that that should have been allowed in, noting he was Mirandized at least four times and know his rights so well, he recited them from memory, so can't really say that he didn't know what he was doing and all that kind of shit. So that all stays in two. It vacates the death sentence. Oh, yeah. Because of a jury instruction. Specifically what Owen, the prosecutor, said in closing argument. He said, each of you have to determine what is an aggravating circumstance. Now, you can't do that. Under Godfrey v. Georgia, you can't hand 12 people the power to decide for themselves what counts as an aggravator. There is a list of aggravators present.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

You can't just say, well, I mean, shit. I mean, if he.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Make up your own.

[James Petragallo]

He pisses on the toilet seat, doesn't sop it up. That's an aggravator. I mean, it's, you know. So now Richard says he didn't even do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petragallo]

His new thing is, I didn't even do it, so you can't kill me. He said, I never fired the shot that killed her, quote, unquote.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who did?

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah. He says now he has an accomplice whose name he won't reveal. Even under threat of the death penalty, he can't reveal this man's name.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Kill me if you want. I'll never say.

[James Petragallo]

He said, if I go to that gas chamber, the name will probably go with me. It's more or less. It's more or less a point of honor to me. Get the fuck out of here. You gotta be kidding me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He had a perfect out when they fired on his vehicle to say the. They hit her.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, well, they would know, wasn't it? It was their bullet. Probably something he wouldn't know so he said that I took her from her home and I dropped her off with the accomplice in the forest. He said, I left her with him and I went back into town to call Mr. Martyr. When I got back, she was dead. He said she tried to escape. I have no reason to doubt the man. I don't know about you, but I believe him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a very honorable fellow. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

He said he only confessed because the FBI agents threatened him. He said, do you know anything about police in Mississippi? It was either confess or I wouldn't be here now. They said they were going to throw me out of an eight story window. And he says even though his ultimate fate is uncertain, he realized that he could end up in the gas chamber someday. He says, of course, I'd be disappointed, to say the least. Talk about an understatement. How would you feel if you go executed disappointed?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'd be, you know, downright disappointed.

[James Petragallo]

I got Thai food last night and the wings in my drunken noodle were a little mushy. I was disappointed. A little. I mean, still edible, but just a little mushy. I was a little disappointed. Yeah. Didn't get dragged to the gas chamber.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Same as if I was dragged kicking and screaming to my death. Wow. He's very disappointing, you guys.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. I'm not happy with this at all, by the way. He said, I can face it. I don't want to. No one in their right mind wants to die. From all I've heard, I don't believe it'll be painful. I'll be apprehensive about not knowing. And he said, I've had. He said that he's not afraid of any punishment because he knows God has forgiven him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, well, that's good.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah. He said, I've had my backslidden and they use an apostrophe backsliding. But I know I've been forgiven for all the things I've done wrong. He said he regrets what happened to Mrs. Martyr, but he doesn't think that killing him will solve it. He said, if they kill me, instead of one unhappy family, you've got two families. Unhappy. Killing me can only compound the suffering already caused. True. And here's the best part. He said, you know, I've been thinking about it. I no longer support the death penalty. He literally said that. He goes, you know what? I thought about it. I used to be a supporter. He said, now change my mind.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This case has done one thing for me.

[James Petragallo]

He said he used to like it, but he said firsthand experience has changed his mind because he knows it's not a deterrent, which. That's a good guy to ask. He said, as far as the death penalty having an effect on anyone's behavior. No, it's not a deterrent. People who think that way are giving criminals too much credit for intelligence. Right, thank you. You're not saying that. That's what it is. You're not saying that. Look, states with the death penalty tend to have the higher murder rates. It's not because they haven't caught up to it yet. It's just it doesn't do anything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, the thing is about murder in a lot of situations, it's based upon and predicated upon. If I do this, I will gain something from it. Money or whatever. If you've got people that are that broke that they're willing to murder over it, there's your biggest problem. It has nothing to do with.

[James Petragallo]

Well, not only that, people don't kill. Thinking about the consequences of it, like, well, if I do this, I'll do 20 for this. They don't think about that. They're gonna get away with crimes. That's how they do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's the consequences of if they don't murder that are way worse because we're gonna get away with it.

[James Petragallo]

And if you wanna say it's for retribution, then fine, be honest, say it's for retribution. If everybody says, says we should have retribution in the way of the death penalty, then do it. I don't fucking care. I'm just saying that to say it's for deterrence, which is what they try to say. It's not. They've done the math. We've had fucking decades. It does not help. You can say, fuck those guys. That's a different argument. Go ahead, make it. He said the only reason people support the death penalty is out of frustration with their own lives, which I do agree with that in a certain extent. To a certain extent. He said it's a way for them to get back at the system, to pick at the weak and the defenseless. It seems like the less control people have over their lives, the more they support the death penalty. Which tends to be true. Actually. He said that they admitted that. If anyone. Then he said, though, if anyone ever killed one of his children, quote, if I could get my hands on him, I'd carry it out. The death penalty myself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I believe it.

[James Petragallo]

Sure. And anybody should think that way. He says, by the way, he does miss his children. Two sons and a daughter or two daughters and a son. He said More than anything. Hasn't seen them since his arrest because his ex wife has kept them from him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, because she doesn't want to bring him to see a murderer all the

[James Petragallo]

way to Mississippi to see a murderer. He hopes a lawsuit he filed will allow him to have contact. He said his parents come to see him. He said, it hurts me that it brought disgrace and shame on them, meaning his parents. When these things happen, people often say the parents didn't do the right job. My parents did do the right job. They can't be responsible for me all my life. There's times when I wish I could take back one minute of my life. He says. There's a saying, yesterday has come and gone. Today is the only time I have. Therefore, I must live for today. So what does Chuck want to happen?

[Jimmy Whisman]

What's he want? Life.

[James Petragallo]

Chuck said, if we had a life without parole sentence, which they didn't have in Mississippi at the time, I might feel differently about the death pedal penalty. Chuck's a reasonable guy. Sounds like he said, I think the reason for a lot of the crime in this country is that we do nothing about it. That's not exactly true. He said. As for the man who killed his wife, he said, I couldn't have done what he did. Jordan should never be allowed to live in society. I would be perfectly happy with him behind bars if I knew he would spend the rest of his life there. And that's a very reasonable approach to it. I'm not bloodthirsty. I just don't want him out on the street streets doing this to other people. Great.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't kill him. Fine. Just never let him out.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, I'm fine with that. Like I said, my family was fine with that. When we had someone murdered, we all went, yeah, just put him away. That's great. Go ahead. What the fuck are we gonna do? Go down there and kill her? It's stupid. So anyway, they said, we don't talk about what happened much anymore. Eric's son said, though. 1983. Re. Re sentence. Wait, Re. Yes, this is Riri. Re. Re. Re. Re. Sentencing. His defense attorney withdraws. He's taking a sabbatical from practicing law. Oh, for Holocaust studies? Possibly. I'm not sure. Joe Sam Owen, the prosecutor, isn't the prosecutor anymore. He's in private practice. But the martyr family asks him to come back and do it because they felt like he was the most passionate.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Put on a new number. Just come back in, get in the game.

[James Petragallo]

Yep. So he does it as a special prosecutor. He later estimated he spent more than 3,000 hours on the case. He said he knew the reason why he did, because he knew Edwina. He was a member of the St. James Catholic Church, and she was a member of it, too. And she knew him, or they knew each other. They bring in a prosecutor, prosecution expert here. Talking about, she was not running. She was kneeling. Richard testifies now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Attaboy.

[James Petragallo]

Jordan's going to testify. He explains the debts, the car, the boat, the store bills he had, the department store credit cards. He said he was desperate. He said, I meant to shoot over her head to scare her and let her know I wanted her to stop running. What happened to the accomplice last year you had? He said, I needed the money. He said I wanted the better things of life, but I didn't plan to kill somebody. And he also said he was sorry and realized what he did was wrong.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I wanted to eat caviar. You don't understand.

[James Petragallo]

I really wanted to keep my boat, you know?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Have you had those tiny carrots? They're amazing.

[James Petragallo]

They're so good. Oh, my God. Tell you what. So they call character witnesses, death row lifeguard, relative or not lifeguard, death row guard, relatives, friends. He puts on 16 mitigation witnesses and himself, six family, five friends, jail inmates, prison chaplains. The prison guard said that he made Jordan a quote, hall man, a job with responsibilities over other inmates, and was highly complimentary about his conduct. So he said that he does great. The hall man's a very important guy that I'm counting on, and he does it. They also bring in a pathologist. All this is all favorable to him. Obviously, the court does deny the defense one thing here, and that is talking about that he has devised a method for generating electricity using wind tunnels. And he wants to present that as a reason why he should live. Because he can literally help society, is what he's saying. Okay. According to the proffer, he's been in contact with the Tennessee Valley Authority about it and claimed that he had entered into an agreement with him, with them to put together this thing. Wind farms, Wind tunnels. Not farms. Tunnels like you can. I don't know. So the prosecutor brings blood spatter evidence. They bring all their people. They said he killed her before. If he was so desperate, he didn't fill out a single job application. Maybe start there. They said, this is the prosecution closing here. Through the entire process that we employed here, at another time, in another place, we presented the case. The jury found him guilty. We were required to do so. We went through the process of convicting him. Of guilt, he says. He takes the stand and says, I'm a changed man. I didn't mean to do what I did. You finally got me convicted. Now you got me in the box. It's getting close to the penalty stage. And I'm gonna play on your sympathy, I'm gonna play on your mercy. I'm gonna play on your bias. I'm a changed man. I didn't mean to do what I did. It was an accident and I'm sorry because I found the Lord. Blah, blah, blah. That's what he says. He said another thing that's bothering me and has bothered me since 1976, and I've never had to face this problem until Mr. Jordan took the stand. Many, many years we've worked on this case, waiting for this very many minute. And I'll be dad gummed. I'll be dad gummed, boy. He said, I'll be dad gummed if he doesn't take the witness stand and say, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I did that. And I think I ought to have life imprisonment, see, because when I was a little boy, I wasn't a bad fella. So you should give me life in prison. That's what he's saying. He said, but don't let him get a life sentence and let him keep living the good life in a Mississippi state. State maximum security prison. The good life.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you. If you. Yeah, if you rescind them to life, that's where they. That's where he gets the 25 grand and he gets to eat however he wants.

[James Petragallo]

Forget about it, boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're going to be on a Mediterranean cruise next week.

[James Petragallo]

Women feeding them grapes. We can't be having that. He said, richard Gerald Jordan is no fool. He's shrewd, he's smart. He. He wasn't gonna get into any trouble. Nothing he's done has benefited society. He didn't do all that for society. He did it all for himself.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

The defense closing is, quote, there wasn't any issue as to his guilt in the case. And we've acknowledged this all along that it was a horrible crime. They do bring up the Tennessee Valley Authority thing, although they said that the TVA never bought it, but they said, we have a picture of a man who's not just sitting idly by. He's trying to make a contribution with his life since this horrible event. Anyway, you, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn.

[James Petragallo]

More death penalty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He is losing so hard.

[James Petragallo]

He's just really, really losing it, man. So Chuck says The guy's cold blooded. He was trying to extract money from me after he'd already murdered my wife. I'd like to see him get his just punishment. Understand? He said he doesn't have any sympathy for criminals who end up on death row because of deprived backgrounds. He said some people say they had a poor life, but I came up the hard way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, did you?

[James Petragallo]

How hard was it though? Yeah, we don't know. I'm not gonna break the guy's balls, but who knows? I mean, there's varying degrees of hard way. He said he lived with his grandmother as a youngster because his mother was unable to care for him. He said, I went to college on my own. I didn't come from an affluent family and managed to grow up and provide for my family without robbing and stealing. That's fine. Good for you. Yeah, that's good. He said there's always loopholes. He said, I don't think he'll ever face the death penalty. He said there's always loopholes, like tax loopholes. The lawyers want to get business. They do it for money, for publicity. If a guy can be an F. Lee Bailey, he will.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What does that mean?

[James Petragallo]

If he can be a big spectacle lawyer who's big and famous and travels the world and hangs out with celebrities and gets people off the deadline.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If I can keep him from being put to death, then perhaps my career will flourish.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Which. Yeah, that's your job. So why wouldn't. Also, he said the psychological adjustment of his life has been hard. I can't imagine having two little kids you gotta raise or somebody's murdered. That's hard. He said time cures all problems. You never forget. But the further you get away from happening, the thing just becomes a shadow in your mind. The first years were the hardest. 76, 77, 78. But I'm better than I was a year ago and I'm better than I was the year before that. You get more normal every day. He remarried last year and he says that his sons now have a mother again, even though later we find out that wasn't the case. And. Yeah. And he's happy to be in a place where he's not surrounded by constant reminders. 85 appealed to the Supreme Court, by the way, the Mississippi Supreme Court. I don't know if you know this or not. I do. Consists of a man so old that his daddy fought in the Civil War, a muskrat who smokes a corn cob pipe, and then just the ghost of Huck Finn, Which I didn't understand at all that that's the whole Supreme Court.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, but don't ask that muskrat what's in that pipe.

[James Petragallo]

No, no, no. He smokes what he wants. It's up to him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's some shit in there.

[James Petragallo]

There's some shit. The defense complains about not being able to present the wind tunnel stuff in more outside of the closing argument.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, it's not fair.

[James Petragallo]

And they said, well, it would have been hearsay if you let this guy do it anyway, so it's fine. April 1986. The U.S. supreme Court decides Skipper vs. South Carolina. A holding that a capital defendant has to be allowed to put on evidence of his good behavior in prison because a jury is entitled to draw favorable inferences about his character and his probable future conduct. Will he be a problem in prison? They do that a lot now. That's a big thing in terms of, like, the dangerousness in prison. May 86, the US Supreme Court vacates the death sentence and sends it back to Mississippi in light of the Skipper case.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petragallo]

Wow. They said under the ruling in scpr, we now know this type of material is relevant and the opinion of the court is contrary to the contrary is erroneous. Remanded for a new hearing. December 1991. Sentencing hearing. Yeah. December 1991. They're gonna offer him a deal.

[Jimmy Whisman]

15 years later.

[James Petragallo]

How about life without parole and we'll call it a fucking day? He says okay, and agrees in writing never to challenge his sentence again. Again. No appeals, no nothing. Shut the fuck up and go live your life in jail. So he says he'll do that. And the da, Joe, Sam, Owen, he objects, but the judge imposes it anyway. The problem is here in 1976, the year of the crime. Therefore, the law that governs there was death or life without parole. There was death or life with the possibility of parole. There was no life without in 76. So they said, you can't. It's not a option. Yeah, it's not one. So the deal everybody just made is not null and void. Yeah, null and void. But they make it anyway. Chuck says, I'm not looking to put this guy to death. And I still don't think he's been punished for what he did. I feel like this was probably the best thing we could come up with. I kind of get tired of having to go through the appeal after appealing and going through this situation again and again. And the son, Eric, said, I don't really have any desire to go basically waste my Time. I would have thought that this would have been taken care of long time ago, but it's probably been too long. The 1990s. He's in Gen pop. He's made a trustee. He works, he volunteers for extra hours. He's well mannered. He causes no problems in the whole time he's there. He writes short stories which we have an excerpt of. Don't worry. He kept working on the wind tunnel. He hired a lawyer from prison to make sure that when he showed the design to the TVA they couldn't steal it from him. Like a copyright lawyer. He's also in an FBI training tape.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For what?

[James Petragallo]

An instructional videotape on how to prevent crimes like his for FBI agents. This is crazy. The prosecutor said. Said this tape was given to bank executives and family members and whoever else it was on dealing with kidnapping and what to do and what not to do. And Jordan was on that tape. He used that tape as evidence later of how he was rehabilitated and contributing to society. I was a little upset by that. But the tape's helpful though. So. Why? What are you upset about? You know what I mean? Like.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, I don't want him using that to his benefit. It's ours.

[James Petragallo]

I don't want it. Yeah. I don't want him doing good things because then he can say he's doing good things. Well, he's doing good things though. Shut the fuck up and still say it doesn't outweigh his whatever. But don't say I don't want him doing good things for society. It's still good. He says that he hates to admit it, but Jordan's been a model inmate, if there is such a thing. He said. He said he's not had one problem. No reprimand, no altercations. But I always thought he was intelligent and manipulative to do what he did. That's the prosecutor. 1994, he goes against against the agreement and appeals his life sentence like a fucking moron. Okay, okay. Because in 1976 there was no life without. So he should get life with parole. He's trying to get parole.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petragallo]

That's the point here. So he's already served 18 years and parole eligibility at that time would have made him just ready to go up for parole. 97. Mississippi Supreme Court decides it and says that he's not entitled to have his sentence amended on remand. He has the right to be sentenced by a jury and the state has the right to seek the death penalty in that jury. Back to one, everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petragallo]

Back to one. He has another evaluation. He's diagnosed antisocial personality disorder manifesting in failure to conform to lawful behavior, deceitfulness, conning others for personal profit, impulsivity, aggressiveness, reckless disregard for the safety of others and a failure to honor financial obligations and a lack of remorse.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Asshole.

[James Petragallo]

Okay. Ri Ree Ree sentencing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petragallo]

Is it Riri Ree or Riri Ree Ree? I'm not sure. It's three Rees. I think it's three Rees. He goes to Owen, the prosecutor, and offers to waive any challenge he might have and accept life without parole. I'll just do it, I swear. Owen says, fuck you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not gonna happen.

[James Petragallo]

Not happening. Just vindictive. He just, fuck you. I'm tired of dealing with you. So they do it. They have another thing. They have another character witness. He has a retired telephone company employee who's known him since he was a kid who started visiting him in prison. Testify. And this man said, in my heart, I don't feel the man would be a danger to anybody, any, anywhere, for anything. I don't. If the man was out, he'd be welcomed in my house. Then on cross examination, they said, did you know he did this, this, this, this, this, this? And the guy said, I didn't know any of that. And they go, would you change your mind now? And he goes, maybe, yeah. So anyway, they said that he's comfortable in prison, and you can't make him comfortable. The Owen guy said, I stand before you today as a special prosecutor. This is not my profession. I gain nothing from it. I profit nothing from it. He said, I'm not even getting paid for this at all. I'm doing this for free. He said, I just want justice. He said, if you feel that I am harsh on Richard Gerald Jordan, then I apologize. But I've been doing this case a long time. In other words, this guy pisses me off. His lawyer said, look at the life of him as a whole. Let's not just judge him on the basis of. Of one snapshot in time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Totalitarianism of it.

[James Petragallo]

He chooses not to speak.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This really.

[James Petragallo]

35 minutes of deliberation for the jury. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty again. For the fourth time. Fourth time. Holy shit. So he's going here. Wow. So Owen is just, like, finally happy and he thinks it's over. Then the Mississippi Court of Appeals, ruling on whether his crime was legally heinous, atrocious and cruel, said he could have allowed Edwina to secure the safety of her child. He did not have to Kill her in the cold, inhumane way he did. After he received his ransom, he could have returned her to her family physically unharmed. 2001 appeal. The State supreme court said even someone without any ballistics training can see that that bullet cannot travel in the way that they clearly tried to describe it. 2001, the county honors Owen for all the work he's did. They said he saved taxpayers personally by doing shit for free. $400,000 to $800,000, which is a lot for a small Mississippi county. You know what I mean? That's crazy. Also the short stories. He reads a short story.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Here we go.

[James Petragallo]

This is the prosecutor reading this to the press. Quote, the early morning sunlight filtering through the slats of the venetian blinds struck my sleep filled eyes about the same instant as the shrill bell from the cheap alarm clock on the nightstand began its daily assault on my eardrums. And he said, owen said, when you work on a case and work hard for 26 years, you just don't want to let it go. I want to see clothes. And he laughed at the writing, by the way, which isn't terrible for a guy in jail. It's fine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Venetian blinds, though. They're just horizontal.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, that's all Venetian. Sounds much better.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is Venetian. They're the tall ones, Right? So he's comparing the bars to Venetian blunts.

[James Petragallo]

It's actually sliding glass door. Yeah, yeah, that kind of shit. Martyr said, it's just so painful to relieve this stuff again or relive this stuff again and again. The husband, husband. 2002 Supreme Court denies his shit. 2005, Mississippi Supreme Court agrees the trial counsel had failed to prepare to challenge the state's blood spatter expert. Still denied relief, though deficient, but not prejudicial, they say. 2010 federal habeas denied. 2012 executions in Mississippi stop. They don't have the drugs anymore, so now they're looking at making a compound down. We've done this with the drugs a hundred times. 2024 here. Apparently he's trying to appeal. Denied again. 2015 Supreme Court. They don't want to fucking hear from you this time. Eat dicks. August 2015. The drugs here, they said that they are no longer able to obtain sodium theopental or pinobarbital because of pressure on manufacturers and that they are looking for to include midazolam as a drug to use to do this. That's the, I think, knock you out

[Jimmy Whisman]

drug before that happens ceases existence.

[James Petragallo]

2017, he challenges the cocktail, saying it won't work very well. 2021 Mississippi executes David Neal Cox with this potassium chloride, midazolam, and versus the curious. The commissioner refuses to say where the state got the drugs. Okay, I'm sorry. That's insane.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I got a guy.

[James Petragallo]

If you had to go behind a building somewhere to get the drugs, you are no better than these people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I got a guy.

[James Petragallo]

That's ridiculous. Unless there is a clear path of paperwork and all legitimate. This is insane. October 23, 2024. The Attorney General moves the Mississippi Supreme Court to set an execution date within 28 days. They set it later in 2025. He's now 79 and the oldest guy on death row by far. May 1st, 2025, they set his execution date for June 25th. June 4th, he seeks an injunction over the three method protocol. There.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't worry, we got a guy.

[James Petragallo]

That's it. There's also a clemency petition based on ptsd. Oh, they said, like other veterans, Vietnam forever changed Richard. According to his petition for clemency, they said. They talk about the finding these people and having to use defensive and suppressive fire with M60 machine guns mounted onto the top of cargo doors, helicopters, all this shit. He was trained to kill on site. They talk about the hut. His base, the Phu Bai near Hu in South Vietnam, was attacked in one of the bloodiest battles during the 68 Tet Offensive, during which he was under constant threat of being killed.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He was in the Tet Offensive?

[James Petragallo]

Apparently so. Now, as Edwina's son Eric says, it doesn't surprise me that you want to try to play whatever game you can so they don't put you to death. He's kind of playing the military card and seeing if that's gonna help them out. They didn't go to these here. They're done. The family is done with this shit. It's over for them. June 20, 2025. A U.S. district judge rules execution may proceed, but they must contact the court if the drug fails to work. That's part of it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, give us a call.

[James Petragallo]

Gotta let us know. Give us a ringy ding ding here. June 20th to 23rd. Appeals all over the place. Fifth Circuit, Supreme Court, court, all this type of shit. Nothing goes on, though. Nothing at all. June 23, 2025. Execution set for two days from now. The son Eric says that. He says, I don't want him to get what he wants. If you want to spend the rest of your life in jail, then I would rather you not get that. And if that means you get executed, you get executed. He's like, if he wanted to die, I'd want him to. To sit in jail. I just think he's an asshole. Which makes perfect sense for the son of a person murdered. That's perfectly reasonable, he said. I don't try to dwell on it too much. Also, Charles Chuck is still alive at 88.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is that right?

[James Petragallo]

He's hanging on June 24, 2025, the Fifth Circuit Court upholds this. The governor announces he will not grant clemency. Richard makes a YouTube video. What? Begging the quote, public for clemency via how somebody made a video for him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's got people in there or the news or something.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, but it was a YouTube video. Like, June 25, 2025. Execution day.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Here we go.

[James Petragallo]

He's talkative and in a good mood. He's been moved to a holding cell. His family and spiritual advisors and lawyers came. He's able to eat his last meal with his family. Last meal. Jimmy peach cobbler, chicken tenders, French fries, strawberry ice cream and a root beer float. Oh, he's going with some bubbles.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Brain freeze. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, yeah. 4:30pm The U.S. supreme Court denies the last stay. 6pm is execution time. His wife is in the room.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's mad.

[James Petragallo]

He's married still. Well, I don't know if he's still married or if this is a new wife. I'm not sure. But it says his wife is in the room. One of his lawyers are there. He says, first, I'd like to thank everyone for a humane way of doing this. That's his last words. I want to apologize to the victim's family. Then he thanks his lawyers and his wife and says, I love you all and I'll see you all on the other side. And then a man wearing a mask and dark sunglasses walks in and rubs his chest and says that that means he's unconscious. Again, if you have to say, I can't tell you where I got the drugs, then have to have a guy come in in a mask and dark sunglasses to perform it. You're doing something that is not. It's untoward.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You clearly feel bad about this.

[James Petragallo]

Exactly. But either way, this guy, who gives a shit if this guy's dead? He's an asshole. So he lies there with his mouth open, takes deep breaths. Dead at 6:16pm wow. There you go. So he's dead. That's it. The family gives a statement saying, nothing will bring back our mom, sister, or our friend. So basically, who gives a shit?

[Jimmy Whisman]

This guy cost the government so much money.

[James Petragallo]

So much money.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Untold amounts of money.

[James Petragallo]

Untold amounts of money. That's all the things we're talking about. The money part too. It's insane. And that was even with the free prosecutor. So Edwin is buried in the St. Louis Cemetery, number three in New Orleans. So there you go.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's it.

[James Petragallo]

So there. What a story, Mark. There is Gulfport, Mississippi. There you go. If you like that story, get on whatever app you are listening to. Give us five stars. Netflix. Thumbs up, fuckers. If you're watching this, please do that. It helps a lot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Head over to double option.

[James Petragallo]

Double thumbs it, fuckers. Let's do it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Go nuts.

[James Petragallo]

Shut. UpAndGiveMerder.com, tickets for live shows. Merchandise tickets for live shows. September 19th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. September. I'm sorry, September 18th at the Pabst in milwaukee. September 19th, Minneapolis State Theater. Then in October and November, Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown, Boston. Get your tickets right now. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Follow us on social media. Smalltown Murder on Instagram, small town pod on Facebook. Patreon.com CrimeInSports P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com CrimeAndSports anybody, $5 a month or above. You get everything. We put out every goddamn thing, including whole big back catalog as soon as you subscribe. Almost 400 episodes are coming your way immediately. New ones every other week. This week. Love after lockup time, everybody. It's back. We can't wait to talk about it. So. So subscribe right now because it's going to be great. In addition to that, you also get everything we put out. Fucking everything. Your stupid opinions, crime and sports, Small town murder ad, free ad. Free ad. Free. And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right fucking now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never bother putting up this many appeals and they would just let themselves be killed by now. Give me those names right fucking now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The executive producers are Gary Howard, checking in Arabella, Georgia. And Happy Hours checking in Splendora, Texas.

[James Petragallo]

Oh, Happy hour.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just got a new truck. His buddy got his old truck. And fucking this thing is. I'll send you the pictures that I got of this truck, James. It makes me want to drive a fucking Peterbilt to the grocery store.

[James Petragallo]

It's badass. I'm really drunk. I want to drive this Peterbilt real quick. We got here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Excuse me. Everybody out of the way. I have to get my to get Oreo cookies. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Liz Vasquez. Janice Hill. Scott Richard. James Donovan Harris II. Lena McCown. Katie Caddy. Haleakala Kim with no last name. Brianna Carr. Anita Justice. Lauren Ashmore. What is it?

[James Petragallo]

I said I need a justice. Yeah, perhaps.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm sure that's their real name, actually. Maybe spelled us, not Ice.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, probably.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Certainly some.

[James Petragallo]

All right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Brooke Rice. Lauren Ashmore. Lacey with no last name. Mike Friday. Ralph Sampson. 50. Lee Donnersberger. Mylene Barty.

[James Petragallo]

ADA.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The law has donated to us. Amy McLean. Nina Corbett. Corbett. Oh, it might be ADA just in all caps. Or it's ADA. I don't know. Jackie Anderson. Jonathan Thatcher. Dow. Oy. Dow. Oi. That is a tough one to. All right, Kyle. Huge. Good for you. Amanda Fancher. Samson Brian Donahue. Lynn Whalen. Mortimer. Becky Cuke. Cute. Cock. Not cock, but it's Kutch. Ashley Robinson. Nicki Man. Michael with no last name. Joel Barnhart. Stacy Myers. Ari with no last name. Jocelyn Pinto Alvarez. Ashley Johnson. Shannon Shanann Burnett. Maybe it's Shannon. Paige Carson. Lacey Strickland. Jess B. Heather Bevin. Hattie. Nope, that's Hetty Lang. Minga with no last name. Jackie with no last name. Brandy McCracken. Macracran. Oh, McCracken. I'm sure it is. Wanda Waters. Sloth with no last name. Kelly Coyne. Dustin Breitcreutz. Justin Terry. I think it was Dustin. Did I say Justin? I don't know. Finally, with no last name. Jen Logan. Dave. No last name. Nurse Ro. Levi with no last name. Jennifer Loggins. Kenny's kid. Tara G. Katie Stout. Bautista. Jerry Fitzgerald. Bobby Holler's gay. Austin Roos. Mr. Moose Marjean. Regina Lamana. La Mana. Kings come down thick. Tick. Tick. Tikonda. Tika. Ticket. Ticonderoga. Ticonderoga. There it is. It's not that hard. Christine with no last name. Jessica Thomas. Kristen with no last name. Aaron Anderson. Nicole no last name. Lucas Danielson. Nick with no last name. Christian Jennings. Dennis Ambroccio. Ambrocio Ambracchio. Jackie with no last name. Jack with no last name. Nick O. Ring or Oring. Ryan Rosser. K. Richardson. Amanda W. 79. Chad Jones. Allison Williams. Charles Jenkins. Justine Kendall. Haley with no last name. Nicole White. Stacy Lowenson. Lewinson. Diamond Deb. Brian Kule. Cole. Janet Cole. That's two. Two people that know each other. Probably. Maybe it's K U L L and C U L, L. There's no way they know each other. Right? They're not related.

[James Petragallo]

It doesn't seem like it, but it's just a big coincidence.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fascinating.

[James Petragallo]

Not Bad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're right next to each other. They donated together. Drew McLemoyle. Macklemoyle. Oh, sounds like somebody with those feeds fed him and trying to see named Macklemore.

[James Petragallo]

It does, it does.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Jessica with no last name Kiki Bass. Cindy Maynard Gout Lisa King. LSM Shelley with no last name Corey Smith, Richard Stamper, Tracy Whiskerman, Jennifer Weathers, Michael Filipelli, Julie with no last name Raymond Yasevsky. Michaela Miller, Joe with no last name Jake Niebuhr, Tay Lee, Teresa Nalt, Reynaldo Vargarici. Kathy Ann Hench. Lauren Dobbs. Brent Laylor Lawler. It's probably Laylor. Cat Daddy 69. I can pronounce that just fine. Allison Banford. Sophia Padgett. Mike Tillery. Bradley Geiger. Angela Anderson. Balzac with no last name. I think that's the author name.

[James Petragallo]

James.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm sure it's a real person. Kim Gravitter. Todd Gaff. Ron Ganoccio. Joe Zamuda. Generation X. Babs we or Wisconsin. I don't know. Shia Lotto, Melissa Renner, Kevin Demou. Demayer. Demeray Vanessa with no last name. Neil with four last names doesn't give them Hunter Patty, Jamie Trank. That's the right way to die. Donate PS Karen Bostian. Tom with a last name because Tom Smith. Who the fuck's going to know that that's the right guy?

[James Petragallo]

It's just Tom. Hey, Tom.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Caleb Halleck.

[James Petragallo]

Thanks, bud.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ruth Hawkins. Amelia Mink. Jack Holtz. Janine Hildebrand, Jill Quick. Dirty. Sarah Goncio. Rec. That's what Quick meant back in the day, right? Dirty.

[James Petragallo]

Yes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They were on the easy side. Miles Unde. Uday Cameron. The tallest turkey. Sarah Gonser. Alexa Kraus. Selena Sira. Selena Sierra. Melissa Bernard. Mark Sierra. Okay, so those are two people that know each other. Chelsea Brown. L. Edwards. Diana I or. Yep. Tyler Justice. Ashley Varney. Kimberly Parve. Bobby Robertson. Amanda Clay. Katie Kelsey. Halle Haley. Haley Biggs. That's not Hallie. Right? Stacy Simeone. However that guy from the soccer team pronounces that. I don't. Dana Kadrowski. Victoria Storm. Randy Drayton. Fawn forward. Jamie Yazzie. Lauren with no last name. Hannah Stark. Brittany Barton. Daniela with no last name. Patrick Kukura. Stephanie Snap. Dusty with no last name name. And Melio with no last name. And all of our patrons. You guys are the greatest. Thank you.

[James Petragallo]

Thank you so much, everybody. You beautiful, spectacular, wonderful bastards. We love you so, so much. Thanks for all that you do for us. Thanks for hanging out with us. Want to follow us or do anything? Shut up and givememurder.com is the place to do it. So keep coming back, keep hanging out with us week after week. What's a wee week after Weech after weech. It's a weech after to each come back, keep hanging out with us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bye.