Brutal Murder, Stupid Murderer - Garfield, New Jersey

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder – "Brutal Murder, Stupid Murderer - Garfield, New Jersey"

Introduction In the episode titled "Brutal Murder, Stupid Murderer - Garfield, New Jersey," hosts James Petregallo and Jimmie Wisman delve into the harrowing case of Sandra Terranova's disappearance and subsequent murder in Garfield, New Jersey. Balancing in-depth research with their signature comedic flair, Pietragallo and Whisman navigate the complexities of the investigation, the dark history of the perpetrator, and the impact on the small community.

Background of Garfield, New Jersey The hosts open by painting a vivid picture of Garfield, a city in northeastern New Jersey. They explore its origins, dating back to 1873 when it was known as East Passaic and later renamed in honor of President James Garfield after his assassination in 1881. Despite its historical significance in Bergen County and its proximity to major cities like New York and Philadelphia, Garfield grapples with mixed reviews—from being a safe, quiet suburb ("[08:22] 'Garfield is a wonderful town to live in... A great place to call home.'") to derogatory nicknames like "Garbage field" highlighting its declining reputation.

Kevin Planker and His Family History A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to unraveling the background of Kevin Planker, the central figure in Sandra's murder. Kevin hails from a family with a notorious past; his father, Wayne Planker, was convicted of severe crimes against children, including sexual assault and physical abuse, leading to a life sentence. This dark family history sets the stage for understanding Kevin's troubled psyche and propensity for violence.

Sandra Terranova’s Life and Relationship with Kevin Sandra Terranova, a 21-year-old woman from Garfield, was described as a dedicated and traditional individual. She worked as a co-manager at the Rampage clothing store in the Garden State Plaza Mall and aspired to buy a house, marry, and have children. Despite her supportive neighbors and coworkers, Sandra found herself in an on-again, off-again relationship with Kevin Planker. Friends and coworkers noted Sandra's fear of Kevin, especially after witnessing his aggressive behavior at her workplace, where he repeatedly harassed her by calling her derogatory names like "whore" and making threats.

The Disappearance and Investigation Sandra was reported missing on August 15, 1997, after failing to show up for work and not collecting her paycheck—the first signs that something was amiss. Detective John Preheard Hart initiated a welfare check, discovering Sandra’s apartment had been disturbed, suggesting foul play. As investigators pieced together her last known movements, it became apparent that Kevin was a primary suspect due to his volatile relationship with Sandra and his violent history.

Discovery of Sandra's Body Through meticulous detective work and testimony from a 16-year-old cellmate named Nicholas Ranieri, Sandra Terranova’s body was eventually found in a shallow grave near a dirt road in Jefferson Township. The investigation revealed that Kevin had murdered Sandra following a heated argument about her potential pregnancy and her ongoing fear of him. Despite initial denials, DNA evidence confirmed Kevin's involvement, leading to his conviction on multiple counts, including first-degree murder.

Trial and Conviction During the trial, Kevin Planker chose to represent himself, leading to numerous procedural complications. His demeanor in court—a mixture of detachment and erratic behavior—did little to sway the jury. Despite his attempts to shift blame and allege that another woman (a prison ministry worker) was responsible, the overwhelming evidence and victim testimony secured his conviction swiftly. Notable moments include Kevin's disruptive behavior in court and the jury's swift decision, taking less than two hours to convict him on six counts.

Sentencing and Appeals Kevin was sentenced to a lengthy prison term, reflecting the severity of his crimes. Over the years, he filed multiple appeals citing ineffective counsel and other legal technicalities, none of which succeeded in overturning his conviction. Attempts to gain parole were consistently denied due to the nature of his crimes and his lack of remorse.

Impact on the Community and Conclusion The tragic case of Sandra Terranova left an indelible mark on Garfield, prompting discussions about domestic violence, community safety, and the challenges of dealing with individuals from abusive backgrounds. The hosts conclude by reflecting on the systemic issues that allow such tragedies to occur and the importance of community vigilance.

Notable Quotes

• James Petregallo [03:20]: “We never make jokes about the victims or the victims' families. We're assholes, but we're not scumbags.”
• Jimmie Wisman [10:04]: “One trash bag moves and they all follow one trash bag.”
• James Petregallo [82:35]: “How is this staying in business?”
• Jimmie Wisman [121:06]: “He wants to represent himself and he just gonna railroad himself to prison.”

Conclusion "Brutal Murder, Stupid Murderer - Garfield, New Jersey" is a compelling episode that meticulously details a tragic murder case, the dark history of its perpetrator, and the ripple effects on a small community. Through thorough research and candid discussions, James Petregallo and Jimmie Wisman provide listeners with a gripping narrative that underscores the complexities of true crime in small-town America.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

This week in Garfield, New Jersey, the disappearance of a beloved young woman leads detectives down a dark road, looking into a man with a disturbing past and family who leaves little doubt that he's capable of brutality. But did he actually do it? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I am Jimmy Wisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely crazy episode of Small Town Murder. As usual, we do not let up. This is. Boy, what a lot of craziness we have today, man. Before we get to all that though, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com get your tickets for live shows. They are coming in the fall. Lots more live shows. Only a few with tickets left at this point. They are Seattle, D.C. and Philly. And keep checking back though because tickets, they give us a bunch of holds that we generally don't use. So then we release them back out. So every once in a while you might see 20 tickets pop up in a sold out show. So you never know. Keep checking back. Shut up and give me murder.com. also listen to our other shows, Crime in Sports where we just finished up a seven part radio show, really deep dive on the i5 killer. So check that out. He played football for like three minutes in a seven part series. So check that out. Also your stupid opinions. Hear the craziest, dumbest and wildest opinions reviews on the Internet. And of course, get yourself Patreon. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're not only gonna get a huge back catalog of hundreds of episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard to download immediately upon subscri, you get new ones every other week. One Crime in sports, one Small Town Murder and you get them all. Just take them, we'll give them to you. Here you go.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But wait, there's more.

[James Petregallo]

There's more. Well, this week for crime and sports, we're gonna do amusement park disasters again.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So great.

[James Petregallo]

It's been months since we've done that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And it just keeps happening.

[James Petregallo]

It just keeps happening. And then for Small Town Murder, it's back everybody. The prisoner dating game is back. That's right. I'm gonna line up four bachelors, four bachelorettes and Jimmy will have to choose one of them. The only things they have in common are they're all violent felons and they're all currently incarcerated. So then at the end he gets to find out what his chosen betrothed has done to earn their time. So that's a lot of fun there. That is patreon.com crimeinsports and as Jimmy alluded to before, you now get all three shows, Crime and sports, your stupid opinions and both small town murder shows ad free on Patreon as well. We give you all we can with this still going. That's all we can do.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Find a better deal.

[James Petregallo]

Find a better deal. Yeah, we can come over like clean your gutters. Other than that we have nothing else to do for you. So do that and you get a shout out. At the end of the show, there's even more. It comes more. So that said, I think it's time for the disclaimer. This is a comedy show. We're comedians. There's gonna be horrible murder. We're definitely gonna make jokes. Here's how it works though. We never make jokes about the victims or the victims families.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why is that, James?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. It's pretty simple how that you can definitely. I mean, people say I'm going to get away with murder. That's someone to make fun of. We make fun of murderers, we make fun of a small town. We're all from somewhere small that we want to make fun of. Who cares? You should hear the episode I did about where I'm from. Brutalize the place. So doesn't matter either way. Check it out because I think you're going to like it. And if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together, maybe we're not for you. I don't know. But we might be. You never know. Either way, no complaining later is what we're saying here. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here? Let's all clear the lungs here and let's all shout Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. We are going to New Jersey this week and we're going to Garfield, New Jersey.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And like the cat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fans of Henson, was it Henson?

[James Petregallo]

No, Jim Davis.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Davis, yes.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know why I remember that, but Jim Davis. So Garfield, N.J. northeastern New Jersey. This is in. Not very far from where we are now. You get there in under two hours probably. This is about 30 minutes to new York City. So very commutable.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

It's gonna be expensive based on Lasagna. Oh, we'll find out. About an hour and 35 to Philly. The other way. New York and Philly are so close and people don't realize that they're so close. And about an hour to Wantage Township, New Jersey, which was our last Jersey episode. Episode. The murderous male stripper want none of it, which was a crazy ass episode. So this is in Bergen county, as you might hear a lot of in the Sopranos. They talk about Bergen county and also an awful lot. Area code 973 and the motto here is the city of champions.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is it?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I don't know what champs they got. Pittsburgh doesn't exist anymore. And Green Bay and there's a few others. Chicago, Pittsburgh is city of champions title town, USA is what Green Bay calls themselves.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What does Detroit call them? Hockey town.

[James Petregallo]

They call themselves don't drink the water. I believe last time I checked, that's their motto.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

That's their motto.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's not quite clear.

[James Petregallo]

Be careful of that is boil before you drink, I believe is their motto. Little bit of history. Survival. We boil Detroit. We boil Little bitter flint, actually. But whatever. It's close enough. Sure. Close enough. Where I'm not drinking the water. Put it that way. The Lenape tribe were here. First European settlement came back to dates all the way back to 1679.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

The area that is now Garfield was developed in 1873. It was just seven homes that were the original. That was the original town and it was known as east passaic. East passaic. Seven houses. Yeah, that's it. In 1881, they changed their name, though, to Garfield in honor of, at the time, President James Garfield.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Big supporter of Garfield here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fat Garfield.

[James Petregallo]

Seven months later he was assassinated. Garfield so popular that he was murdered. And so then they said, all right, well, they named the train station in his honor since he just died. And then it just stuck. And it was Garfield from then on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who became president after Garfield.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, God. Who the hell was it? Was it Arthur Garfield? Shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Was it Arthur?

[James Petregallo]

It was him or.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn it. I apologize.

[James Petregallo]

I'm thinking it was Grant before that it was Grant, then Garfield then. Okay, it doesn't matter. We're getting. We're getting bogged down in details. This is a great line. This is from their website. Garfield almost had a horse trolley in 1990. I don't know what happened, but it almost happened. It didn't happen.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hysterical.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know how you. It was a. I don't know how you almost have a Horse trolley.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And then close. But it was so close that it's notable to talk about it.

[James Petregallo]

We were right there. We had the horses lined up. But I don't know, it was weird.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We had the trolleys.

[James Petregallo]

No horse.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

Never mind. So the city of champions came because in 1939.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Garfield's high school football team was national champions one time in 1939.

[Jimmy Wisman]

One time almost 100 years ago.

[James Petregallo]

Well, also the Garfield cadets were frequently winning the National Drum and Bugle Corps Championship.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sought after champion.

[James Petregallo]

And then Tippi Larkin, the Garfield gunner was junior welterweight boxing champion of the world in 1946.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So in the 40s they were something to be.

[James Petregallo]

There's some hot shit in the 40s. This is the place to be. Reviews of this town. Only 3.1 stars on Niche, which is out of five. Which is way lower than normal for a town. Here's five stars. Garfield is a wonderful town to live in. It is very safe and quiet. There's lots of parks, stores and restaurants located right in town.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Great.

[James Petregallo]

Oh boy. So you can save valuable time not having to drive far. Garfield is close to all the major highways close to Manhattan and ideal for commuters. It's a great place to call home.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All the major highways.

[James Petregallo]

So that's. The range of reviews here are wild because it goes from that to like dystopian wasteland.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Everything's accessible. Even roads to get to. Even more accessible.

[James Petregallo]

Even more accessible. Shit. Wait till you hear some of them. Here's three stars. Garfield is great if you're looking for a nice quiet suburb to start a family in. However, Garfield lacks fun. Well you know, it's 30 minutes away. Manhattan where everything exists literally. The city that never sleeps is right there. Half it's like 12 miles away. You could walk there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Couldn't have more shit to do.

[James Petregallo]

Right? There aren't many restaurants or fun are fun get out activities for you to take advantage of in the neighborhood. Some close by neighborhoods do harbor some of those fun activities. Harbor them like they're fugitives or resentment. Either one. Some of those fun activities you may be interested in. Okay, that's three stars. And then it gets bad from there. Oh boy. One star. Garfield is known as Garbage field. Is it due to its declining reputation?

[Jimmy Wisman]

We just found out.

[James Petregallo]

I guess so. Rents are through the roof and it's technically in Bergen County. No parking anywhere. Schools were the worst I've ever attended. I used to cut class because I couldn't handle the 95 plus degree heat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that why?

[James Petregallo]

That's why not. Because you were failing out probably. I had schools with no air conditioning too, and it sucked. And you just went to school?

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's the Northeast, man.

[James Petregallo]

We had no air conditioning.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's rare.

[James Petregallo]

The good restaurants have left due to greedy landlords.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that why it is?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So he just hates everybody. The people who own landowners there, they suck. New people. You suck too. Who are you for?

[Jimmy Wisman]

The school system is really wasting their money.

[James Petregallo]

One star. This town is turning into trash with the type of people that are moving in. Prescott Avenue used to be nice, but when one trash bag moves and they all follow one trash bag. One trash bag and then one star. As I have previously stated, the streets are dangerous because gangs are on every corner.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every corner.

[James Petregallo]

Where do you hear crime rate? All right, for this people?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every corner.

[James Petregallo]

Every corner. Mind you think about it, okay? People in this town. 32,481. It's a pretty good size, so decent size. Seven houses, but not huge by far. For 30 minutes from Manhattan. Few more ladies than men here. About 50.3% women. Median age is like exactly the national average. 38.3. 38.4 is the national average. It's 49% married. 50, 50 is the average. A few more single with children, but not too far out of the range of normal race in this town. 56.4% white, 3.6% black, 2.1% Asian, 35.8% Hispanic. 65% of the people here are religious. That is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's way high.

[James Petregallo]

50, 50 is the norm here. This is Utah levels of religion. And no shock here, 49.6% of the people here are Catholic. As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the north. Obviously they can't get rid of them. They're everywhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

My God, Ash Wednesday is wild up here.

[James Petregallo]

It's a party.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Everybody's dirty.

[James Petregallo]

It's a filthy party up here. Tell you what, little bit high unemployment rate. Median household income here is just below the national average. It's 66,296. And the average is $69,021. Cost of living a little bit high. Yeah, a little high on the cost of 100 is average here. It's 141. And the housing is the highest thing of all. Median home cost here, $433,600, which is about 100,000 more than the rest of the country.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's so expensive.

[James Petregallo]

That is expensive. I mean, so if you need to get to Manhattan quickly, you don't want to have fun and you don't mind gangs on every Corner. We have for you the Garfield New Jersey Real Estate Report. Average two bedroom rental here, pricey $1760. Which is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

500 more than the national average. But if you live in Manhattan, a two bedroom is five grand. So you know it's impossible. Yeah. So if you're to commute, it's not bad. First house here. I don't know what they're thinking. It's a three bedroom, one bath. Barely any of the houses in New Jersey have square footage, by the way. Look at this house, bro. You have to look at the picture of it is crooked.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that's not selling shit.

[James Petregallo]

These are the only two pictures. A crooked picture of a small overgrown backyard and a crooked picture of a front. I don't even know what's going on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Or is it level? And it's a Charlie Bucket's house.

[James Petregallo]

We have no idea what's going on here, but this house is $395,000.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Not sure what's going on with it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's sliding and it needs a haircut.

[James Petregallo]

And it does. Well, apparently. It says on the listing. The only description is affordable. Bergen county property needs new owners. Vision needs a vision. All right. To see it straight, first of all. Next up, three bedroom, two bath, small lot. It's a nice little house. Wood floors. I mean, you can see it's nothing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, that's adorable.

[James Petregallo]

It's a nice little house. But it's $600,000.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How justify that? That's so dumb.

[James Petregallo]

It can' than 1500 square feet, this house. It's a small. It's a little, nice little house, but it is real expensive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How many acres?

[James Petregallo]

Nothing. Nothing. 4,791 square feet. Lot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Lot.

[James Petregallo]

That's the lot. And you can see the houses next door and behind it are right on top of it. I mean, it's pretty goddamn over half a million dollars. Way over 600,000. And then finally, you know what? It's. I don't even know how many bedrooms, bathrooms, or square feet. But we're gonna take a chance here. Everybody roll the dice. We're gonna open a business. Cause there's a above it. So I'm living that. It was juice coffee activated. That was the name of the business that apparently is no longer a business because it's completely empty.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Booty cleanse.

[James Petregallo]

Not sure what's going on there, but it just got reduced $100,000. It's on 55 Passaic Street. It's on like the main drag. We're taking a chance, everybody. We're opening up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sell some taffy.

[James Petregallo]

999,999 bucks.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A million dollars. Let's do it.

[James Petregallo]

And sell business and apartment. You can in New Jersey. It's great things to do here. Not a lot going on in this town, I gotta say. Tried to find it. There's just not a lot. I found the Garfield's Fall Family Fun Street Fair. That's a lot of Fs, and it is not. That person was right. There's no fun to be had to be had here. Unless you're four. This doesn't sound like a good time at all. It says you can be sure they'll have something special during the spring and summer and fall and holiday seasons. These events include street fairs like the.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They do it four times a year.

[James Petregallo]

They do other ones. They do food truck festivals, vendor pops, vintage marketplaces, flea markets and collectibles, and a women's lifestyle expo.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's just an expo to sell shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. There's this group here, this company that basically puts on public whatever the fuck every once in a while. So the family street fair is literally like a bouncy house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And some like, snow cones for sale. Like there's not really a lot going on. The only other thing I could find here is the whole Lotta Empanada Festival.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Got the whole lotta empanada.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll try that.

[James Petregallo]

Why not? They claim there will be food trucks, a beer garden, live music that is so impressive that they've chosen not to list any of the bands. Because you don't want to overwhelm the festival grounds with people. That's the thing. If you announce the bands, it's going to be too many people. They gotta keep it low key. You know what I'm saying? Say live music and then it's, you know, you got enough.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You gotta hope and cross your fingers and show up and hope Terry's there.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe he's gonna be there. Somebody's gonn. We got the. What was the name of that guy from Jesus. From a couple years ago in one of the Jersey episodes. The Italian guy who was.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

God damn it. We had a whole thing going on with that guy. Listeners, you will tell us. I'm sure.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's been a minute.

[James Petregallo]

It's been a minute. But you will tell us. I guarantee you'll tell us. Can't remember God. It was that. He was the, you know, free parking and, you know, it's for the kids and all that shit. Oh, man, that was funny.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Was it Joey something? Probably Frank.

[James Petregallo]

Frank something. I'm not sure.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Peter.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know, something. Everybody was named Peter Uphole. I'm still including confusing him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is Petey. I mean, Paul.

[James Petregallo]

I get confused myself. Uncle Paul, he got confused. So there's live music, a rock wall, a bungee trampoline.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, yeah, I've seen those.

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck is that?

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's so you can jump higher on the trampoline. They do them in the fucking mall.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Where they tie you up and let you bounce higher.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. My mom was such a good mom. She let my little brother that in Mexico when he was 5. In Mexico, on the street, I'm like, what are. There's no regular. I was like 13, going, there's no regulations. What are you doing? She's like, oh, he'll be fine.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He gets hurt. Who are we suing?

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. Obstacle course, face painting, sand art, bounce house vendors, mini golf, and of course, the empanada eating contest we're throwing down. It's empanada time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They filled us with all kinds of different things, right? It's not just animals or cherries.

[James Petregallo]

There's all sorts of different kinds of empanada. I think it's like any kind. Like a sandwich. You could just make it in anything. Put anything between bread. You put anything in this thing and fry it. It's an empanada.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's all it is.

[James Petregallo]

That's all it is. So this is at the 75 Elizabeth street in Garfield, at the 20th Century Field is Elizabeth.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that homage to the Queen? Is that what they did? Is that why there's so much Elizabeth around there?

[James Petregallo]

Probably, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Probably.

[James Petregallo]

I would assume so. Or. Well, no, because Elizabeth. Unless there was another Elizabeth in the 1600s or something, which is very possible.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

Because not this Elizabeth.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's what I mean.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She was like Elizabeth 8th or something.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Everybody was already named. I'm sure there was some. Some old hag, they named it after some old royal twat, got her name.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Some bitch tapping people on the shoulders with a sword.

[James Petregallo]

Slapped her name all over this fucking shit. So crime rate in this town, what we're interested in? Because I need to know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's fascinating. Head on a swivel. How many are on the corner?

[James Petregallo]

Property crime under the national average, just under. Not too far, but not even at the national average. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime. What gangs on every corner specialize in one quarter under the national average? Gangs on every corner?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every corner.

[James Petregallo]

Run. Run for your lives.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Maybe they're just nice.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe they're like doo wop gangs and they don't understand it. They're probably like 75 year old men with like leather jackets, singing, singing around a fire. Singing around a fire. Just like from like Rocky one you like. Maybe that's what it is. And they're like, oh no gangs.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A lot of snapping.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I love you so it's always that. It's always like the most tender song. They're never singing anything anyone wants to hear.

[James Petregallo]

Singing around burning trash while wearing leather jackets on the street going, baby, I love you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Singing to some lady named Mary.

[James Petregallo]

Fucking ridiculous. So there you go. It's not. I would say the gangs on every corner might be overblown slightly, have seen.

[Jimmy Wisman]

One or two, but they haven't seen a lot.

[James Petregallo]

They're not very active if they are, because it's under the national docile people. Yeah. And we do towns in Iowa where it's right at the national average. So you're safer than that. I mean, I don't know, farm towns anyway. That said, let's talk about some murder. All right, let's get into this now. All right, let's start off with a young lady here. Her name is Sandra Terranova.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So right away we're jumping in with the Italian ness here. And with the last name almost as long as mine. She's one letter shy. Sorry, Sandy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a lot still.

[James Petregallo]

It's a lot. It's a handful, but it's one letter shy of me. But Sandra Terranova, she's born about 1976. Sandra is. Grows up in the Paramus area around here. Graduates from paramus high in 1993.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Big city gal.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah, it's close. Anyway, so I have. I found her yearbook thing and under it it said this is like her senior yearbook stuff. It says her nicknames are Sanjay.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. Sandra. Sandra, Sandra with a G with a J, I guess. Sandra.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The way they say, yeah, Sandra.

[James Petregallo]

It's not gonna.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And the D disappears fast.

[James Petregallo]

And terra toe, which I don't know where that came from. I don't know if she's got a weird toe or what, but terra toe, I don't know. Her senior quote is, if you haven't got your health, you haven't got anything. Yeah, not normal for usually like a senior in high school. Say something you're concerned about your. That's something like your grandmother would tell you, right? You know what I mean? Listen, I'm Gonna tell you this. Everyone gives you all the advice. If you haven't got your health, sweetie, you haven't got anything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You haven't got anything at all.

[James Petregallo]

Believe me. Believe me. Take it from me, there's always a belief, believe me. Yeah. Like, you know, after. Over the years, you'll understand what I'm doing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I know better than anybody, believe me, Believe me.

[James Petregallo]

I go to the doctor four times a week.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every time I leave, he says, you're doing great. And I go, well, if you haven't got your health, you haven't got anything at all.

[James Petregallo]

Anything at all. Anything at all. I'm sorry. So she's so. Obviously she's forward thinking. She does a lot of like, sports activities. Ski club, cross country track, softball, spring track and tennis.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You gotta stay busy, James. Cause you heard about your health.

[James Petregallo]

She's moving. Yeah, she's taking it seriously. She's like, I gotta get some exercise by 1997 now. So she graduates from Paramus High in 1993. And she kicks around a little bit. And she moves as we'll talk about, kind of around the area like every kid. She's trying to get settled and figure it out. And she's got a boyfriend who we'll talk about that's kind of on and off. So she sees other guys. She's a young lady.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's doing it.

[James Petregallo]

Why not? So by 1997, she's got a new apartment and looks like everything's going well. This is in Garfield, so it looks like things are gonna go well for her. She moved into her apartment in like spring of 97. And she had previously lived on Palisades. Palisade Avenue in Garfield.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No college. She was back in.

[James Petregallo]

I think so. I think she was working. Yeah. And then she lived with her parents for a little while. And she also at one point lived in Italy for a bit. After she graduated, her family sent her to live in Italy so she would stop seeing her boyfriend. Oh, how much of a piece of shit is he? That's another continent, man. See, I need an ocean between you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Two in the old country.

[James Petregallo]

This is why. Yeah, we're sending you like we have cousins over there. You're gonna live there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You'll meet people you've never met that'd be wild. And they're all related to you.

[James Petregallo]

I was just thinking about that as I was putting this together. And I was like, what if someone sent me there? Like, you're going to live with your cousins and aunts and uncles that you don't know. I'd Be like, what? What the fuck? I don't even.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I need you to get away from your wife. Yeah. What?

[James Petregallo]

That's wild. Well that would have been a good move if someone did that at some point. But they did. But she was sent to live with family in Italy just to get away from this guy that they didn't like the road she was going on with this guy. So like, hey, how about you move to Italy? That's exciting.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He might be a nice guy in some really short shorts and fall in love.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, yeah, he'll grope you and he'll probably yell things at you from a sidewalk as he cruises by in a Vespa. But don't worry about it, it'll be a nice dinner. I'm telling you, it'll be fine. So otherwise she doesn't really do a lot of crazy stuff. She likes romance novels and stuff like that. She likes to play cards with her friends and hang out with her friends and she's a young lady, you know what I mean? She has a job here. She is the co manager at the Rampage clothing store at the Garden State Plaza in Paramus.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, so that's just recently stopped being, you know, I mean Rampage, wasn't that a store?

[James Petregallo]

I mean it obviously was in the 90s.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I see pink lettering like I see the thing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I remember it from like malls in the 90s.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I don't remember the last time I saw it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I feel like it fairly recently, really like Forever 21.

[James Petregallo]

I haven't been in malls that much to know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got a 14 year old now, so I'm doing that shit.

[James Petregallo]

You live right by a mall. Yeah, there's Giant mom doing that shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I spend hours every few months in a fucking mall.

[James Petregallo]

I have a wife that also hates the mall, so.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And a 20 something daughter and an 18 year old son and yeah, your mall time is done for you.

[James Petregallo]

My mall time is over? Yeah, it's good.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh the dream.

[James Petregallo]

We're living our mall free. We're entering our mall free years now. Really is what that is. That's what you call those times when your kids grow up. You call them as your mall free years. Cause then after a while, once you're like 75, then you're back at the mall again. But you're there right before they open, so you can walk it, but you have non mall years. The mall's very important. From the time you're a child all the way through your children, the mall's very important.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And a pair of shoes that kids frown At.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, terrible. Rounded at the bottom, all weird. Then for like 30, 40 years, no mall. And then back at the mall again. It becomes very important.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a fascinating place now because things are changing so rapidly. Like there's stores, there's weird fucking things in the mall.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's only two that are popular. Three. I guess in Arizona there'll be a.

[James Petregallo]

Store that just sells like Croatian Doritos. And you're like, where am I right now?

[Jimmy Wisman]

How is this.

[James Petregallo]

How is this staying in business?

[Jimmy Wisman]

And that China toy store. There's that one.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And now they've got this thing called Round. I don't know what the fuck. It's like. It's an experience store where it's in the fucking mall. And they do like, like birthday parties. There's karaoke.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, I've seen shit like that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Giant claw machines, crazy fucking video games.

[James Petregallo]

It's like a giant Chuck E. Cheese without the pizza, basically.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right. But it's like a. It's like how you would expect something in Hong Kong or fucking Tokyo. Yeah, it's crazy stuff.

[James Petregallo]

Strange South Korean birthday and like a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Crane machine where you get giant bouncy balls. Oh, so the machine is fucking enormous.

[James Petregallo]

It's gotta be.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If it's got more than one thing.

[James Petregallo]

It'S the craziest thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And that's what's in our mall now.

[James Petregallo]

So weird. Well, this is what's in her mall. So Sandra and her mall, she's like I said, it's a women's clothing store in the Garden State Plaza Mall in Paramus. And on Friday, August 15th.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, her.

[James Petregallo]

One of her assistant manager, Gennady Zareski there gets a little worried about her and so does a co worker named Barbie Kaskasis. Barbie. Barbie and Gennady are worried about you because she wasn't at work on Thursday, which is not normal for her. She usually shows up, it's her shift. But Friday's payday. Friday the 15th is paycheck day.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's when you get in there.

[James Petregallo]

So she'll be there. She's not gonna miss tomorrow.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's doing first and 15, but yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She no called, no show. I think it's every Friday. Whatever. Either way, I think she didn't show up on the Thursday, but they're like, she'll definitely be here on Friday. We don't have to worry about that. But then she didn't show up and get her paycheck on Friday. So now everybody gets worri. If a 23 year old doesn't show or 21 year old shows up and doesn't show up to get her paycheck, There's a problem. I would have crawled through broken glass to get a paycheck at the bottom.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What year is this?

[James Petregallo]

97.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, direct deposit doesn't exist, right? No.

[James Petregallo]

You have to pick up a check and go bring it to the bank or you don't have any money. That's it. So they ended up calling the police to say, can you go check on her? Because she hasn't shown up and we don't know what's going on. The cops said, okay. And they all kept saying, you really, really make sure you check out her boyfriend. Make sure you look at her for her ex boyfriend. Talk to her ex boyfriend. If anything happened, talk to her ex boyfriend because he's a weirdo. Okay? Now her ex boyfriend, his name is Kevin Planker. P L A N K E R Planker. Now Kevin, same age, 21. They were high school sweethearts, these two. And then after high school got a little bit rocky. And during high school, but after high school got a little bit rocky. Family sent her to Italy to forget about it. To forget about Kevin. Yeah, to go over there and, you know, start to clear the slate. You know, just spread some gelato on that slate and clear it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Meet a European. Let's get the fuck out of here.

[James Petregallo]

Do something. Yeah, put some mozzarella on it. Don't worry about it. So.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Heals everything.

[James Petregallo]

Heals all. It really does. We found that out last night. Mozzarella. It feels great. So Kevin here, they met in high school. There's always a stormy relationship. But like I said, after high school it got worse. Then they kind of broke up and then they would fall back again and kind of typical young relationship. They can't get away from each other. Now her neighbor Chad, this is another person here that knows her. It's her friend and neighbor Chad. Said that she had told Chad, Sandra had told Chad that even though she knew Kevin had problems because she always thought, until recently, that he could overcome them and they would be together and he would be fine and the person she always wanted him to be. I can fix him, is essentially what she said. And Chad said she knew he had a good heart, even though he was kind of crazy. She was all he had. He probably couldn't handle breaking up with her. We'll find out. She is not all he has. He is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's doing good.

[James Petregallo]

Stick all over New Jersey. He is getting popping fucking kids in people's bellies.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Don't do that.

[James Petregallo]

21. He isperminating the whole town. It's ridiculous. Yeah, we'll talk about that. Chad described this Sandra as a strictly work, home and to bed type, nice homebody. She's 21. She doesn't go out to the bars. She comes home, reads a book and goes to bed. Literally. That's what she does. She goes and talks to her neighbor for a while. She's not wild at all. And also she had just gotten another job, a second job at the Old Navy store in Wayne.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, that's new that time.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, let's go. That gets hot. Shit at the time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. All that fleece.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, they got those goddamn commercials with. No, the swing dancing was Gap. Never mind. Old Navy had their own dumb commercials.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, Old Navy was just like fake snow scenes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And all that weirdness for a celebrity.

[Jimmy Wisman]

To tell you how great their fucking fleece is.

[James Petregallo]

Better than Gap with their khakis. Remember that people swing dancing to celebrate khakis. I'm like, what is happening? Why are we. Where are you? Swing dancing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Remember when khakis was like everything?

[James Petregallo]

Remember when swing dancing was there something?

[Jimmy Wisman]

And Eddie Bauer was popular too?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And that shit is the most boring shit on the planet.

[James Petregallo]

It's just khaki. Yeah, it's all khaki and shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That goes with khaki.

[James Petregallo]

Khaki and khaki adjacent items. Chad also said she was scared of Kevin and didn't want to be around him. She was afraid he would come to the apartment. But he says that. But he also always comes to the apartment. He helps her move stuff into the apartment. She asks him to come to the apartment. So I don't know what he's talking about there. Chad said the first time he met Sandra was when she was moving into the apartment building. And he said she was the smallest thing and she was carrying a big box. She was very independent. He said she's little, like five, 300 pounds. Oh, little, little chick. Yeah. And so she said she knew. He said she knew what she wanted out of life and she had a lot going for her. She's smart and she's driven.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Strong as an ant.

[James Petregallo]

Strong. Yeah, exactly.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Carrying big shit.

[James Petregallo]

She's got insect strength. It's good. So Chad said she had a good job, her own apartment and a brand new car. She told me all she wanted was to buy a house, get married and have kids.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Apart from that last part, I like it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So she's very traditional. You don't hear a lot of 21 year olds now that are just like, I just want to buy a house, get married and have kids. They're like, we'll see what happens. But that's all she was concerned about. Now, a little bit about Planker here, Kevin Planker and the entire Planker family, because you cannot talk about Kevin Planker without talking about his father. Wayne.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Wayne. Oh, boy. We'll talk about it here. This is interesting. Now, Kevin has a brother named Chris with a K. Both gays. Chris is born in 75, Kevin in 76. So that's what we got going on here. Kevin's a year younger, obviously. Wayne is an auto mechanic. Dad. He's an auto mechanic and boxing coach and ex boxer from Jersey. Used to be a Jersey boxer. Yeah. So a tough son of a bitch that has a wrench in his hand, probably more than likely. Now he gets Chris and Kevin into boxing immediately because that's what he knows. So by the time they were three.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They were boxing, throwing punches.

[James Petregallo]

Throwing punches, learning how to do everything, which is how you make a great boxer.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You don't see a lot of guys start at 23 and become champion. Not a lot of Rocky Marcianos out there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It also kind of teaches a kid how to fucking deal with rage.

[James Petregallo]

How to deal with rage. It's good for a lot of, obviously, health. It's good for discipline. But what's bad is getting punched in the head a lot from a young age. So if you can prevent that and using that, practicing is fine. Yeah, that's also to get a kid to not go out like Tyson did and use those skills on people like we talked about. Now, Kevin's a great boxer here. Really, really good. His brother Chris, also. His brother Chris won the Colorado Golden Gloves intermediate division when he was just 10. And Kevin, our guy here, won a silver medal in the Junior Olympics after winning both the New Jersey and Northeast regional tournaments when he was 15.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why'd they go to Colorado to.

[James Petregallo]

It was. I'm not sure. You could enter different regions, I'm sure. Or whatever. But either way, that's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They're champions.

[James Petregallo]

They're good boxers. Like, that's. They have, like, a future. They watch these two. And that's 15 is high school. That's when he's going out with Sandra. So when she meets him, he's this together guy who, you know, is boxing and a champion and probably has a fuckload of confidence. He's big, too, certainly. He's six, three, over £200.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God. And can throw a punch. Stop it.

[James Petregallo]

Beat the Shit out of you. So I mean, he's a big confident guy, so that's, that's attractive to high school girls. Yeah. Can defend my honor and just has just that safety. His chin's up, you know what I mean? He's got confidence. He's not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Being that big and learning confidence at that age, like you're gonna conquer shit.

[James Petregallo]

And when you travel and win things and do all that, you're just gonna have a lot more confidence than the typical 15 year old who's sitting in his room and jerking off and playing Sega Genesis and then coming to school and going, oh, you're really pretty.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Like you're not the same, the same level at that point. So that's how that goes. Now 1991, when Kevin's about 15, when this is all going on, it's really the peak of his life here. He's doing great. There's fluff pieces in the newspaper about his family. And this will just be a minute and then it'll get real. You'll be, in a few minutes you're going to be happy that I was telling you about this stuff, put it that way. You're going to be like, go back to that stuff. So this is from the newspaper, the times. In November 24, 1990, for Oak Ridge residents Chris and Kevin Planker, boxing, it would seem, is in the blood. Starting with their great grandfather John Planker, the two youngsters are following the footsteps of three generations of Plankers who were dedicated and talented boxers. Dad Wayne says it's definitely something they picked up from other members of the family. He said, my grandfather John was a boxer in a coach. My dad Warren was a boxer in the Navy. My uncle Bob Lacks taught me how to box and now he's going to keep the tradition going on with his kids here. He says that Chris and Kevin performed very well in a recent National Police Athletic League tournament held in New Jersey. Chris got the gold medal in the super heavyweight class of the senior decision. Our senior division with a unanimous decision. That's why I fucked that up. And Kevin, who's a year younger at the time 14, took second in the 165 pound bracket of the senior division. Wayne said this was not just a pal tournament. He said this tournament had amateur boxers from all across the country.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So it was a real who's who of boxing. Chris is a sophomore at the Lakeland Andover School in Lafayette. He got a victory over Marcus Chandler. And Kevin, who's a freshman, was lost to a guy named Jerry Harvey from Georgia. So they talk about. Wayne honed his skills as a boxer while he was working as a sparring partner for Saul Manby eight years ago. Manby at the time was attempting a comeback. He was a big fighter back then. Planker is hoping Chris can gain experience in a similar manner. He said one day every other week, Chris goes down and boxes with Shannon Briggs.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

If you know anything about boxing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

Shannon Briggs, I believe, won a heavyweight champion. He was the heavyweight championship belt at one point. So he's a no shit. Heavyweight champion of the world.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The real deal.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And Briggs, who was the best amateur heavyweight in the country at the time. And he said he spars, he watches things he does during workouts. So he's just like watching Shannon.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's like a compressed. What was that British guy? That's what he looks like.

[James Petregallo]

Lennox Lewis. Yeah. A little munchier down. No, no, no, no.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just wide as fuck. He was so big.

[James Petregallo]

He was nasty, he was tough. So Wayne says Shannon gives Chris a lesson every time, but it's an invaluable experience for him. Briggs can show him what it takes to be on top, to be the best amateur heavyweight going.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Imagine throwing punches with that guy.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Future Heav. And it's. That's. These kids aren't just dicking around boxing. This is. They're seriously like on the path to Olympic level boxing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Like that's getting punched by Shannon the Cannon.

[James Petregallo]

Shit. So they said next on the Plankers schedule is the Silver Glove competition later in the month. The Silver Gloves is a three level competition starting with the States and the winner goes on to regionals, the nationals. But their long range plans here, Wayne said their main goal is to represent the United states in the 1992 Olympics. That may be too far to reach, but it's something to shoot for. They'll still be young. So 1996 is more realistic. Then they'd be more like 19 and 20. But by then they might be looking to turn pro. So it's kind of tough. They said at the age of 10, that's when Kevin won his stuff there. And yeah, Chris was a heavyweight and since the age of 13 was undefeated through a number of national tournaments. Jesus Christ. Wayne said the biggest tournament is the Junior Olympics. The whole Olympic Committee is there. Everyone is watching to see how the 14 and 15 year olds are doing. Yeah, because they'll be the next group of Olympians. In fact, Mike Tyson won the Junior Olympics two times and Evander Holyfield lost there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So it happens. Yeah, even if you lose there, it doesn't mean you're garbage.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It doesn't mean anything.

[James Petregallo]

So then they said that then comes the national junior tournament for 17 and 18 year olds. The winner of that tournament competes in the World Junior Tournament and travels the world with the American team. And then the next step is the Olympics. So, I mean, we're talking about a world recognized badass, some serious shit going on. And by the way, they were all honor students as well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Smart kids too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is interesting. Kevin at the time said, my older brother had people start fights with him once or twice and then that would be it. Yeah, well, yeah, he's gonna be an Olympic champion, said Kevin of his brother Chris, who had recently bench pressed 305 pounds as a freshman to tie the school record. And he knows how to box. Wow. He said after that nobody else would start a fight with him. I had a couple of fights, but I usually scrambled my way out of them. This is what Kevin said. I don't like to fight on the streets. It's not the same thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, it hurts a little more.

[James Petregallo]

It's just different. Yeah, somebody could. There's no bell.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

They could just punch you in the eye when you're not expecting it and kick you in the face.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And they're not trying to just box, they're trying to tackle you.

[James Petregallo]

No, they're punch your ears and kick you. Who cares?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, fucking and use your fist.

[James Petregallo]

Pussy poke your eyes will do anything. So he said, I'm very confident, this is Wayne, that each of them will be the best in their respective weight classes in New Jersey and that at least two will win the Gold Gloves or will win gold in the National Juniors. So they're saying that in this article they say the success and potential of them is due to. Primarily from the wealth of knowledge that Wayne has passed on down to them. And he said, though before he taught them to deliver a single punch. He said he delivered them. He delivered them personally because he says, my ex wife didn't want to go to the hospital.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wait, hold on. What?

[James Petregallo]

Okay, so he's punching them before he taught them to deliver a single punch, he delivered them personally. Yeah, I guess. He says, because my ex wife didn't want to go to the hospital. I don't know what that means.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But he hit the kids instead of the wife.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe. I don't know. I had to take it out of the.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is going on?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I was trying. I was trying to find a way that it didn't mean that But I think because. Why would you put that in the newspaper?

[Jimmy Wisman]

She didn't like paying her own copay.

[James Petregallo]

Weird. So Wayne was a high school wrestling champion also in 69, and spent a number of years sparring with fighters at Gleason's Gym in New York City. On top of that, he's also very knowledgeable in karate and judo.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Wayne's a badass is what it is. They said his teachings have been a combination of all four disciplines.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, I'll fight any way you want.

[James Petregallo]

Anyway. Wayne said they're not your typical boxer. They're not fast, they're not agile and they can't dance. What they've got going for them is scientifically smart moves. He said two other things is tremendous love for the sport. Wayne said since we're all about the same size, we all spar with each other. Yeah, he's sparring with teenagers. He said that. Wayne said. Wayne, who later teamed with his son Chris to give this writer a short lesson on defense in a Burger King parking lot. He said, we all just get in a van or we get on a jet plane and head for the tournaments. I save up my money and we all go together. Okay, now what the fluff piece does not tell you. Yeah, that was from late 90 and early 91. Is that from? Wayne was charged with a crime in 1988, a terrible crime against children.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What did he do?

[James Petregallo]

But they don't mention any of that stuff. Not a word. Oh, we'll talk about it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's beating up kids in a. Over chicken fries.

[James Petregallo]

Not only that. Well, that was a writer he was beating up. But he apparently was beating the shit out of his sons the whole time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Which is kind of weird for a boxing coach. Cause if you want to beat your kid, you just go put the gloves on. I'm going to teach you. I'm going to show you something real quick. And then knock him. Like that's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You got to ring about this.

[James Petregallo]

That's crazy. And also the mom and dad weren't together. Dad was separate. And dad was in the early 80s, had a girlfriend that had two young daughters.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh no.

[James Petregallo]

Dad also was charged in 1984 with sexually assaulting the daughters of his live in girlfriend over an 11 year period.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Over and over and over.

[James Petregallo]

At his trial, the stepsisters, he didn't plead. No. Fuck no. He went. He denies it. He said it didn't happen.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

These sisters said that he regularly forced them to perform sexual acts. Aren't you. Don't you want us to Go back to boxing. Now everyone's like when's the boxing over?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Talk more about chicken fries.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. Regularly forced them to perform sexual acts. He punched and molested them and regularly beat his sons as well and possibly molested them too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How is he out in 91?

[James Petregallo]

Well, he was still awaiting trial on these charges, but in the paper he's going to tournaments full of children.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Not mentioning it.

[James Petregallo]

He's got a gym, children. There's children all around him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I guess innocent til proven guilty, but.

[James Petregallo]

Not, not around kids.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Let's not do that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, sorry, but you don't get to hang around kids. Well, at least put it in the paper. Hey, maybe don't your kid to this guy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Wayne would play games with the girls.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ah, that's a gross game.

[James Petregallo]

Picking by lottery, which of the two sisters or their mother, his girlfriend, wife, whatever, would go to bed with him, drawing straws to cover his crimes. The girls said later on that he would play social worker, quote unquote. That's we're playing social worker now, he would say, quizzing them about their lives. If they gave the wrong answer or in any way hinted at abuse, he would punch them. Not only that, he had both girls had both arms broken at various points by him and one had her nose broken as well. In January 1991 is when this is all going down. So those articles were coming out 30 days before he goes to trial.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How in the fuck did they get away from this?

[James Petregallo]

So Wayne, Wayne's fucking trial here, man. I like how this newspaper article starts out. Wayne Planker is either a violent brute who sexually abused his girlfriend's daughters or a caring father figure whose love of boxing made him an easy target for a big lie. Whoa, maybe he just cares too much.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Those are. So there's a. There's a giant space in between those.

[James Petregallo]

That's a prosecution and a defense chasm. Yeah. Cause this is a trial, they said. Those were the startlingly different visions of Planker offered yesterday by a prosecutor and a defense attorney. During the arguments on his sexual assault charges, the prosecutor reminded the jury about the testimony of the two sisters, who at the time were 20 and 21, who described the abuse. He's charged with four counts each of aggravated sexual assault and sexual assault against the girls during 1983 when they were between the ages of 12 and 13. It gets worse, okay? He said. From the time. This is the prosecutor. From the time they were young children until their mid teens, the victims were forced to endure a life of repeated sexual and physical Abuse and told the jury they can expect to hear graphic and disgusting testimony about the conduct of Wayne Planker. They said that Wayne didn't anticipate that the day would come when these girls would develop the strength and courage to come forward forth and report what this man did to them. And he outlines the charges and everything and said they took place where the charges are. They said they think it happened for a longer period. But the charges are for incidents between December 81 and June 84. And they only stopped in June 84 because they left. The girls moved away and then they didn't tell anybody till 1988.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good God.

[James Petregallo]

@ least they told. That's good. So they said, this is the prosecutor. He kept his secret safe by conditioning them to know that if reported they would befall danger.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

He said that they would be rewarded with cookies and money and rape. No, no, that's if they, if they didn't complain or whatever, he'd give them cookies and money as a reward for. If they performed satisfactorily and indicated they wouldn't tell him anyone. The prosecutor said if they didn't, he'd strike them. Saying that he would constantly issue threats and tell stories about how he'd injured animals and other people into a little girl and he hurts them. So they believe it. They said believing when they were starting, when they were preschool age, up till the time when they were 13 and 14, they were subjected to various sexual acts including participating in sex games with Wayne, sleeping with him, taking showers with him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Him.

[James Petregallo]

They said maintaining the conduct was observed by neighbors and acquaintances who quote, for some reason did not see fit to report him. He was not hiding this. Wait till you hear this. They said those persons will be called as witnesses. They should be sitting next to him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

What are we talking about?

[Jimmy Wisman]

How do you know that and not do anything about it?

[James Petregallo]

Wow. They said these girls were resigned to a life that would never bring change. He said that Planker's girlfriend, their mother, was a hopeless alcoholic and a weak willed woman, totally subordinate to Wayne Planker. They said the situation changed in 1984 when the victims moved away from New Jersey and broke away from their mother. That's when they came forward in 88 with the charges.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Where the hell they go there?

[James Petregallo]

Probably, who knows? Grandparents, uncle, aunt, uncle, anybody. A fucking pack of wolves would be better than this, you know what I'm saying? Like anything would be better than this in this. They said at that point the indictment was filed against Planker the following year and they said the victims named him As a defendant in a civil suit in December that seeks punitive damages for physical and emotional abuse. And he's going to try to use that to his advantage and say they just want money. They said Planker liked to have several abusive games he would play, one he called nap time, in which he would choose between the girls and their mother to lie with with him in bed. If the girl's mother wasn't chosen, she would go into the backyard and drink alcohol while he would molest her daughters.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, God, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

That's what she would do. He would frequently punch the girls in the stomach and chide them because they didn't block the punch. We're not boxers, we're small girls. What are you talking about? He also kicked them in the stomach with steel toed boots that he almost always wore. One of the girls testified. Yep. Kicks and punches were delivered almost daily, sometimes for no reason at all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Just to keep them on their toes. They both girls detailed the sexual abuse they endured around his friends. Around other people. Yeah, Other men, by the way. Chicken shit who should have fucking beat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The living fuck out.

[James Petregallo]

Hit him in the head with a frying pan. I guess you don't want to start a fight with the guy, but hit him with a fry. Do something. Call the cops.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Anything.

[James Petregallo]

Anything. He would forcibly lift up the shirts and comment on their breasts in front of his friends. This is a sick fuck.

[Jimmy Wisman]

My God.

[James Petregallo]

Sick fuck this guy is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What year is that? Why is that?

[James Petregallo]

Early 80s.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is going on?

[James Petregallo]

By 1983 we knew that was bad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, you can't do that.

[James Petregallo]

Matter of fact, I think by 1893 we knew that was bad and by 1783 we knew that was bad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Probably. I mean, when they were. These are. These are babies.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, these are.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's so gross.

[James Petregallo]

11 year olds, he's doing this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So gross.

[James Petregallo]

He also bragged to his friends while the girls were present how he planned to have sex with them when they turned 14 and that once they turned 14, he would also let his friends have sex with them too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

He'd say this in front of the girls and in front of his friends and they wouldn't go, it's getting late.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Never again.

[James Petregallo]

I'm get out of here to where the cops are and I'll talk to you later. She said one of the girls said Planker sexually abused her then forced a kiss on her lips. She said it was repulsive because he had terrible breath too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

So the prosecutor said these women have not been healed by time. And they're urging the maximum sentence. He says they still suffer from these crimes. He said goes over everything. He reminded the judge that one girl had her arm broke, the other had her nose broke. And one said that he forced her hand onto a hot stove and burned her. This is like some sybil behavior. Like, this is horrifying. This is how you get multiple personality people. Ritualistic, sexual and physical abuse is how.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You end up with this mental anguish that's clearly just built to keep them submissive.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, it's fucking horrifying. He's a monster. The prosecutor recalled testimony of how he had placed his hand. This is from one of his friends. Testified down one of the girl's pants and announced to his friends that she had her first period.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, for Christ.

[James Petregallo]

Can you imagine how horrifying that is for a little girl? This is harf. Don't worry. This is all over.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

And it's got a happy ending. So also, the prosecutor described how Planker had conditioned the girls to answer the questions and all that kind of thing. Also so he could continue a welfare fraud he was doing because that's why social workers were coming. Because he had a welfare fraud going on. He had a scheme.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

The Prosecutor said for 11 years, these girls were tortured physically and psychologically, tragically. But Planker's defense attorney, Peter Gilbreth, said that their testimony, the girl's testimony, or women at the time, 20 and 21, didn't make sense.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's confusing.

[James Petregallo]

It just doesn't make sense. Given testimony by Wayne's friends and family who said they never saw the girls bruised or abused. The defense attorney said, these girls told a lie once and they told the lie and now they're stuck with it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They can't stop telling it.

[James Petregallo]

The defense attorney says that the girls testified in the criminal case just to bolster a civil suit they filed against Plant seeking monetary fucking retro compensation.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They're looking for money, you guys.

[James Petregallo]

That's all. He noted the girls had failed to report the abuses till years after they left New Jersey with their mother in 1984.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Can't imagine if that doesn't happen.

[James Petregallo]

Well, I wonder why. Because they're terrified of him. And it took till they were in therapy, probably in counseling when they got away from their mother.

[Jimmy Wisman]

When they have sex with him, he still punches them. What will he do when they don't anymore?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. Or when they tell.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

The defense attorney said, I'm not suggesting stuff like this doesn't happen. It does. But you've got to have proof. They have witnesses saying all this stuff about, I'm going to let you have sex with them, all this shit. The defense attorney noted his client has denied the charges and urged the jury not to let emotions play a deciding role in the case.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a real emotional judge.

[James Petregallo]

I know it's emotional that you want to murder this guy with your bare hands, but don't let that cloud your judgment. He said the most important word used by the prosecutor was disgusting. And there was no question. These charges are disgusting. Don't forget that it's easy to make allegations. Not for a child to make allegations against it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's really not that disgusting is the word child. Child rape is way worse than disgusting.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. I don't know. This guy's saying he's using too strong a language. It's like, I think he was going easy on you. Don't forget that it's easy to make allegations. The question must be if they are believable and proven beyond a reasonable duty. Doubt told the jury that all Wayne is asking for is a fair shake. He said, I'll have to ask difficult questions. It will not be a pleasant task, but I must do it. And then he said to the jury during his openings, hold on. It's going to be one heck of a ride.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

What a disgusting way to put that. He is found fucking guilty of everything. Wayne is. And this is. Think about this. Think about when you're a teenager and you are known for your association with your father. You're in the newspaper about you and your dad, and you're all connected. And everybody knows your dad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's never boxing again.

[James Petregallo]

And now your dad is the biggest piece of shit in the town.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Child molesting scumbag. Everybody looks at the boys like they're pieces of shit, too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Were they married? Is this his stepdaughters or these just girlfriends? Children.

[James Petregallo]

We're not sure. They lived together for years.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So gross.

[James Petregallo]

Common law. It's the most disgusting fucking thing, the balls on someone. A. To molest anybody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

But to be like, I'm gonna molest somebody else's kid is like, that's. That's awfully presumptuous.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And to grow, to groom the entire family.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Molest two girls in your own house is so violent.

[James Petregallo]

Which also says that's not the first time he's done that because he knew exactly what woman to find how to do it would allow that to happen. He knew exactly what he was doing someone who was damaged enough to allow.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That a long time.

[James Petregallo]

So the judge said, says you, sir, may off 40 years in prison.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Dang.

[James Petregallo]

Banged him good.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

For sexually abusing these two kids.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Great.

[James Petregallo]

The sentence was just short of the maximum, which was I think 42 years or some shit like that. Yeah. And so the superior court judge called him a dangerous and violent person who deserved the long sentence. Under current sentencing laws, he could have imposed 40 years with a maximum 20 year period of parole ineligibility. Under the current sentence though, he will be eligible for parole in about 10 years.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Luckily though, as we'll find out when you go up for parole hearings, none of this shit sounds good. Those two girls go to every parole hearing telling those people what they did to you. It's bad. And we'll find out. Wayne is not going to do well in the parole game at all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, the judge, he plays nap time better.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. Prison is one long nap time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A lot more people to choose from.

[James Petregallo]

To go night night. Oh boy. Who wants to go night night with Wayne tonight? Fucking scumbag. So the judge said he was moved by the testimony of the victims, particularly the description one woman gave of one of many sexual attacks. Because they gave detail. I spared you people, if you can believe it. Planker says he plans to appeal the sentence, but the judge refused to allow him to remain free on bail. He was free on half million dollars bail for years doing fluff pieces in the newspaper. And the judge says, oh no, no, no, no sir, you're going right now. Take a hike. So they get him. During a half hour statement to the judge, Planker proclaimed his innocence and accused the county prosecutor of coercing witnesses to testify against him. Which is why he got such a strong sentence. Because they were like, oh, you're an asshole. Goodbye. So, not surprisingly, in about 1993, Kevin starts to have some problems. As you would expect at this point, I would think he starts running into trouble with the law and I mean, it's just kind of expected. This is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Dad's been put away for like the worst thing ever.

[James Petregallo]

The worst person ever. Everybody, I'm sure, doesn't look at you the same.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The whole boxing community is.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, everybody knows about it. And they're all checking their kids to go, Jesus, was he around my kid?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Briggs isn't even sparring with you?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, Briggs is scared. He got Shannon Briggs shivering in the corner. He's like, I don't want to come in there. He's like, I don't mind getting Knocked out, but I'm not getting raped. That's something different. So he begins some trouble with the law. He's arrested for the first time by paramus police on November 17, 1993. Charged with assault, criminal mischief and disorderly. Cop pretty bad night which sounds like some teenage shit of an angry teenager. He was fined $650 after pleading guilt. He's a kid doing his, you know, whatever. Then he has more problems. May of 94 he's charged with possession of marijuana and hash, which is just weed.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Same thing.

[James Petregallo]

Same thing but separate charges and drug paraphernalia. All of these charges obviously wouldn't even exist now he could walk into a store and buy stronger shit than that. So that doesn't matter. I mean I was smoking weed around this area at this time. Same fine. It was all fine. In November 1994, he's arrested for robbery. That's different. That's not Boys will be boys. You got some hash in your fucking bowl type of shit here. He pleaded guilty to the robbery and is sentenced to. You young man, may certainly fuck off. Five years in prison.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ooh, that's a big robbery stiff. Yeah, you.

[James Petregallo]

I hate to say it, but there's no way that he earned that one. Either he did it horribly or his dad's shit had to have some sort of way bearing on it of like, you know, I'm giving this kid an extra harsh sentence because of his dad or I don't know what it is, but he got a pretty harsh sentence there. He is going to end up serving only 11 months of that though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, lucky.

[James Petregallo]

Which isn't too bad. Let's 20%.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Not bad at all. Let's talk about prison. In 1994 there's a guy named Tony Desimone who said he was Kevin's cellmate for about six months. And talking to Desimone later on, the newspaper says from his home at a trailer park last night, Simone really is. He's doing well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Rebounding well.

[James Petregallo]

He's crushing it out there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Don't go to prison you guys don't go to.

[James Petregallo]

Wait till you hear later at the end of this episode you are going to hear all about the conditions in New Jersey State Prison. But a complaint from an. It's wild. It's more funny than anything the way the guy puts it, but you'll see. So from his home at a trailer park last night, he said the younger Planker was a boxing fanatic who kept to himself. Desimone said Kevin Planker never spoke about really about like His. Outside. His girlfriend, Sandra, or this or that or anything he was missing. Only that he hated his father. That's all he would say, really.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just sat in there stewing. My dad's a piece of shit.

[James Petregallo]

The only personal shit he would talk about was how much he hated his father, which is kind of obvious. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He ruined his fucking life.

[James Petregallo]

Destroyed his life. So this cellmate said that Kevin spent a lot of time doing push ups, listening to classic rock and boxing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hell, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, that's not a bad life, I guess. That's not bad. So now why did Sandra like him? Or what did she see?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. What was the attraction?

[James Petregallo]

Confidence. All that stuff. But no one. Chad, actually, the neighbor said he was her high school boyfriend. She told me she always felt bad about the life he had because of his father.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Chad was friend zoned.

[James Petregallo]

Chow. Chad's major friend. So friendzoned, or he's like the gay neighbor. One of the two.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But Chad, either way, he's not gonna get her. And he's furious.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, because she's telling him all about this shit. Oh, I felt bad for his life. That's not a. I'm gonna fuck you later. That's not how that works.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Tell me all about him. I know he's a bad guy. Tell me.

[James Petregallo]

Tell me. Yeah, that's not bad. So she liked him because she felt bad for him. He was a wounded puppy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She can help.

[James Petregallo]

She wanted to help her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's a good person.

[James Petregallo]

She's a nice person. So, 1996. 97 adult. Kevin, now out of prison. Six' three, 240 pounds.

[Jimmy Wisman]

With rage. About his father.

[James Petregallo]

With rage. And a pretty damn skilled ability to fight.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

On the street, he's dangerous. Like, you know, in a boxing ring, he's not really that bad anymore. Sometimes someone half his size will whoop his ass if they're skilled enough. But on the street, this guy is a fucking loaded pistol. So he's also unemployed. He apparently was a former construction worker and cheese salesman.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hell, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Just selling cheese. That'd be the easiest job in the world. If you came up to me with good cheese and were like, you want to buy some cheese? I'd go, all right, yeah, what you got? What do you got?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll buy that.

[James Petregallo]

I'll buy all the cheese you got, my friend. Love cheese.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm going to repave your driveway while you eat this cheese. What do you got?

[James Petregallo]

Got some parmigiano. Reggiano. Hand it over. Let's go. So, yeah, he's six'4,240, an unemployed former cheese salesman on parole. Not a great stat line for starting your life. It really isn't. So friends and co workers say that because he got out and that's what he was dealing with. Teresa and getting with her and everything like that again after he got out of prison. Now friends and co workers of. Not Teresa, Sandra Terranova. Sorry. Friends and co workers said that Terranova was afraid of Kevin, but for some reason couldn't leave him. She felt bad for him. At one point, friends said that Sandra's parents moved her to Italy in hopes that she would forget about him. And it didn't work because she came back because she wanted to be with him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, she left Italy to be with him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So she, Sandra, frequently complained to co workers that Kevin was calling her house at all hours, that she was afraid of him. She broke down in tears several times at work. Coworker said, this is not good. No, this is all bad. One of the co workers here, the one that called the cops, Gennady said, we tried to tell her to stay away from that guy and that he wasn't right for her. But you know, when you're with someone for a long time, it's hard to break away. Love makes you do stupid things.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, it does.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, I can co sign that.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. That is the most true statement of all time. Love makes you do stupid things. That should be. Tell every child that all the time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Love will cost you thousands and thousands.

[James Petregallo]

So much. And then never mind your emotional bank account that is going to be depleted. So the woman went on to say, he's not the kind of guy she should have been dating. She was a great girl and a great looking girl from a good family. He was something else entirely. If they could afford to even send her to Italy, they got to be doing half decent. At least they have their shit together. Probably have health insurance and things like that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The plane ticket is not cheap.

[James Petregallo]

No, it's not. So when the coworkers said that Sandra. They tell the police because the police are looking for them. They've been called looking for Sandra. They tell the police that Sandra was afraid of her boyfriend and that they suspected foul play. So you should look into it. Because they said, could she have just gone somewhere? She is 21, she just go to see a friend somewhere for a few days. Who the fuck knows a 21 year old, you go anywhere. And they said, no, no, no, this is weird. She didn't get her paycheck, which she always got. Cause she the money because you Got a car payment and rent and all this shit to do. And so the police hand this over. The local Garfield police hand this over to the Bergen County Prosecutor's office. Out of our hands. A little too big for us. So anyway, they talk about that Sandra had recently broken off the relationship with Kevin. Kevin. And was briefly dating a neighbor. Oh, not Chad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, Chad.

[James Petregallo]

Don't think it was Chad, though, as we'll talk about out here. And had sought refuge from Kevin at the neighbor's apartment. So maybe it is Chad. Or maybe Chad has a roommate or. I don't know what's going on here. Kevin is just drifting. He has no trouble with the ladies, we'll say that much. He has tons of women willing to go way out of their way and do things they shouldn't do for him. So he occasionally stayed with Sandra in her apartment. Apartment. He stayed with friends in West Milford. He also had family members who lived near the watershed property. Later on that we'll talk about. That's kind of out in the middle of nowhere. So kind of rural. A more rural area. At one point, he lived at the home of a ministry worker and her family. This woman here who we'll talk about later. Her name and everything like that. She was a prison ministry work worker.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, prison ministry.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. And he hooked up with her while in prison. And then when he got out, still fucking her. Went to live with her family and her. Which is crazy. She said she met Kevin before he was sent to prison on the burglary conviction. She offered him a place to stay upon his release, but grew to distrust him. She said, we didn't want him in the house anymore. There's too many valuable things here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's that bad.

[James Petregallo]

He's saying it can't be trusted around your silverware. So he still visited her and her family from time to time, as we'll talk about here. More recently, he lived with another woman and her infant son. It's not just her infant son. It's his infant son. He's got a kid with this lady, too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

So he's banging the ministry lady. He's got Sandra on the hook. And he's also got a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Making babies with this.

[James Petregallo]

Making babies. Has a baby with this woman who we'll talk about in a minute here. It's a lot. He was living with them on Route 46 west in Lodi where a neighbor said the two appeared to be moving out that week. The neighbor who lived next door said, I don't know what was going on, but they were Getting ready to move. I saw her putting her things in a car. Okay. Now we'll find out what that was after a while here. So August 15 is when she was reported missing. Sandra Taranova. Okay. Now the investigation of where she is. Because at first the cops, like I said, it's a 21 year old. So they're like, she can do things. Yeah. She might be in Atlantic City. We have no idea what she's. She might have went down there and got a jackpot. And she's stuck in front of a slot machine.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She met a guy with a boat. Who knows?

[James Petregallo]

Who knows? Yeah, she met a guy with the stugats. He's gonna go out on. So the detective, John Preheard Hart, spoke with Sandra's mother and went to Sandy's. Sandra's apartment.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He noticed right away that Sandra's mailbox was full.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

So the. It's been a little bit. Few days of mail and it's one of those little boxes. Yeah. That, you know. Three days of mail.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

If you got one magazine subscription, it's over.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Best of luck.

[James Petregallo]

She's like, I shouldn't have subscribed to Entertainment Weekly. Look at this shit. It's a mess.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I feel bad for my mail guy. I do that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got a mailbox out front with, like, the door.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, you one of those neighborhood mailboxes?

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, no, no, it's just in my.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, that's right. You have one in front of your house. Yeah, yeah, but it's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a big black box that's like concreted in. And you can open the little door and put things in there. I just let him fill that for so long that the door doesn't even open.

[James Petregallo]

I always do that. Sarah loves to get the mail. If Sarah didn't get the mail, it would never get. Because I don't. I don't care. Well, everything's, like, online. Most of it's automatic anyway. It's all travel. I don't care what you got, but you should empty the mailbox once in a while.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Yeah. I should probably get all this stuff out more, but probably a couple times a week, but I do not.

[James Petregallo]

And sometimes you get weed in there, and that's when you really gotta get it out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That would be fun.

[James Petregallo]

That's fun.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Nobody draws that in my mailbox.

[James Petregallo]

Really? Oh, wow. I have a good mailbox.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Better one than one.

[James Petregallo]

So mailbox is full. And so he ends up climbing the fire escape to her apartment, opening the screen and entering the apartment to detect it. He broke in he went up the fire escape to break in because he's concerned, wants to see if she's there. It's a welfare check. Basically. No one's there. The door is locked. So he exited through the same window and fire escape, crawled down the fire escape. So there's like who knows here. So then the next day is Saturday, August 16, 1997. So this day detective here, the pre heart guy, he goes to several Paramus residences including the woke who ministry worker lady's house who he was staying at for a while. That's the residence listed on Kevin's driver's license as his primary. That's where he was living at the time he got it. They also talked to a kid named Nicholas Ranieri who is a 16 year old kid who's a friend of Kevin's. Why is a 21 year old? Well, I guess he was in prison for a while. So he might be a little repressed.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And he probably needs more immature people. Probably. And influence.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Influenceable.

[James Petregallo]

Influenceable. That too. Yeah. So he wasn't. Kevin was not at either location. And they just want to talk to Kevin at this point because she is seeing other people. So they're all on the list here. The pre heart guy learned of a phone number for the apartment that he shared with Dana Knott. Dana is D Y N A oh, Kot I'm sorry. K O T T Dana Kot. That is the mother of his child.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He was also living with kind of. He left in the car moving out. That was in the moving out. So he left a message for Kevin on her machine there. Okay. Or whatever the fuck. So back to Sandra's here. Pre Hart goes back to Sandra's apartment that he was at the day before breaking in the window. And he noticed the window that he'd secured the day before was open now. Oh, and he knows he was with the mother. So he knows the mother didn't come over.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he entered the apartment through the window again. Sure. With his gun out. And he noticed now things are different in the apartment than they were yesterday. Someone's been here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Somebody's been here.

[James Petregallo]

The mail that was on the table is strewn about the apartment. The bedroom door which was open the previous day is now closed. And the apartment front door is now unlocked. Someone broke in through the window and left through the door and rifled the place basically. So he's like okay, someone's looking.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Something's wrong.

[James Petregallo]

Something's wrong here. She didn't just go somewhere. Now there's foul play because now somebody's coming in trying to fuck with our investigation. So Sunday 17 August comes around 1.45pm that day, pre Hart receives a call from Kevin. He has been going everywhere Kevin's ever been, talking to everybody Kevin's ever known, giving his card out saying, have Kevin call. So Kevin knows he's got a call to make here. So he calls. And Kevin tells Preheart that Sandra went to Wildwood to hang out and he should look for her there. I don't know why you're bothering me. Basically. Yeah. In Wildwood, New Jersey. So yeah, you should just go to Wildwood and leave me alone is basically what he said. He also said that Sandra has a. She does this all the time. He said she has a long history of just running away without telling anybody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Disappears from take off for a few days. Let me tell you about Italy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she'll be back. Yeah. I didn't know where she was. She was slurping pasta.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Came back smelling like garlic and olive oil. Crazy.

[James Petregallo]

It's crazy. So she's liking the squid pasta. I don't know, it was weird. So he said that, yeah, she runs away. And they said, well, tell us a little background on your relationship with her. And he said, quote, I guess we kind of still see each other. Like not really. Like, that's what he said. Like not really. Like now again, when you're 21 and you break up and then you're seeing someone sort of. And then he's seeing someone sort of. This is normal stuff or is he.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Saying, I guess we kind of like see each other? Not really. Like, I guess we see each other saying that? Well, no.

[James Petregallo]

Then he breaks into this. He breaks it off. He says, I guess we still kind of see each other. Like not really. Like, I haven't slept with her in a long time because she. She's been sleeping around. He said we hang out and it's all right, but it's not like a relationship or anything like that. So basically he's saying it's become more of like just friends friends type of thing with like something else with a weird umbrella over it. But not sexual at this point, you know, because she's sleeping around. So, you know, his standards are way, way above that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm sure everybody. It's not fair.

[James Petregallo]

He told Preheart also that the last time he saw Sandra was the previous Wednesday or Thursday night, which is Thursday is when she didn't show up for work for the first day when he helped her move out of her apartment, which she still didn't move out. Her shit's all. It doesn't make sense. Well, there is furniture missing from her apartment, which is the detective didn't know at first because didn't know what kind of furniture she had. But then later on finds out that there is furniture missing. So they're like, did he help her move out? Was she moving out? So then they're very confused now because they never thought about that. So they're like, was she moving in with somebody? Yeah, the whole thing just opens up a big door.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Where did you move to?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, where'd you put that shit? More importantly, is there a guy we should be talking to who's on the other end of this move and shit like that? Other witnesses, they talk to just people to see if maybe they know anything. They basically all of them talk about the mistreatment and threats by Kevin against Sandra. Okay, that's all of her friends. Barbie from work said that on Wednesday, August 13, the day before she was gone, that, wow, Kevin had showed up at the store rampage and engaged in an argument at the store at work. At a retail store, in a women's clothing store. The craziest place to have an argument with your girlfriend or ex girlfriend or anybody is in a women's clothing store. This is weird. During which Kevin chased her around, calling her a horse whore over and over.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Chased her in the store.

[James Petregallo]

Just. She was trying to walk away because she's at work. And he was chasing her, going, cause you're a whore. Cause you're a fucking whore. Like, just calling her a whore at work and stating that he was, quote, going to kill her, you whore. Okay. They were like, that's interesting.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fascinating.

[James Petregallo]

Not exactly how Kevin described it. A little different than he described it here. So Barbie and the other person from work who called the cops stated that Kevin would call the store repeatedly, repeatedly scream at her, scream at Sandra, and call her derogatory names like whore. John Nardino, now he's a guy. We're going to find out. He's a very interesting part of this. He is the male voice on a phone call that we'll find out about later on. Okay. There was a phone call, call that he was on the phone with her. He called Nardino, called Sandra that night, and apparently she went over to the phone to talk to him. And then there was a call back to his house with a guy calling him. And the guy was Kevin. He's saying. And this guy said that while this guy called him this Nardino said he could hear Sandra screaming in the background saying, hang up the phone. Why don't you just stop? You always do this. Please just leave. Okay, so he's saying that he thinks Kevin was at her house and calling using her. Like star 69.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, calling back the last number she called.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. So according to John Nardino, she sounded like she was crying in the background while screaming this stuff. So also they talked to several, several acquaintances of Kevin who all said they observed Kevin driving Sandra's 96 black Mitsubishi car between August 15th and 17th. Oh, which is Friday through Sunday. Yeah, which is when this is all going on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And he's saying, I don't know where she went, but he has her car, man. But that's what people say, so who knows? So Kevin calls the detective again. Okay. Prehart had contacted the Bergen County Prosecutor's office for assistance. And they send out Detective Gregory Donatello.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And they got. Yeah, you know, Raphael's there. He'll be there. Yeah, it's all the turtles are coming in.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There is pizza.

[James Petregallo]

There will be pizza. Well, it is Jersey, so he's from the homicide squad. Even though we don't even know what's going on, we're bringing a homicide guy now just in case something happened.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he meets with Prehart at 2:30pm that day. Day at 4:30pm that Day. That is when Kevin calls Preheart again. This time he's got a little bit different story. He says, okay, we were pretty close, me and Sandra. We were closer than I let on last time. Just trying to distance myself. Didn't want to be involved, you know what I mean? When asked whether Sandra's apartment was normally messy, because now it is, he said, no, no, quote, if it's messy, there's something wrong. I can't guess. That's what Kevin said. Shouldn't be messy ever. She never kept it messy. Then about 5:15pm, a Mrs. Ranieri, who is his little 16 year old buddy's mother, called the detective and told the detective that her husband had seen Kevin pulling up to the ministry lady's house a few doors away. In case you're still looking for him. He's down there. Okay, so Pre Hart and Donatello went to that address and asked Kevin to come down to the Garfield police headquarters and talk about this for a minute. So after some discussion, in other words, Kevin, Heman and ha. And I got shit to do with her. Let's just talk about it. Well, why don't you just come down?

[Jimmy Wisman]

We'll bring pizza.

[James Petregallo]

Come on. That's all Right. Yeah, we got this. It's all taken care of now. So they said that he said, fine. So he accompanies the officers to the Paramus Police headquarters for some reason. Reason, where they sit him down and have a little interview with him because they need to either include or exclude him, because at this point, he's the only guy that they're looking at. So Kevin sits down and said, okay, I'll tell you the story from the beginning. Sandra and I dated for a time in High School. 93, 94, all those times, and then it ended during that time. He said their dating relationship ended in 94 because he went to prison, which he doesn't mention at this point. He just says it ended around 94 to college. You know, I was in. When I was at West, I was. I was being a cowboy. They used to tell the little Italian kids back, your father's out west. He's being a cowboy. Yeah, he's got a lot of work to do with the horses. And all the kids go, oh, wow, my dad's a cowboy. He's just a green hater.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really heavy.

[James Petregallo]

He's just at Sing Sing. That's the only thing. So he said the dating relationship resumed in November or December 96, which is, you know, less than a year ago. He said that, yes, it is true, because they said, we found out you are involved with quite a few women. You have an infant child with one of them. What's going on? And he said, well, yeah, I was involved in some other relationships at the time. A young guy. You know what I mean? He said, including with Dana Cott, who was pregnant, and then she had my baby. He said that he and Sandra, though, were done, done broken up on August 10, 97, which is five days before the cops are called day off. Yeah, but he said he helped her move furniture on August 10, the same day. So she said, I don't want to be with you anymore. Grab the other end of this couch.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Get your truck.

[James Petregallo]

And he said, sure. Hold on. You got to turn it this way to get through the door. Like, what are we talking about here?

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a good way to break up.

[James Petregallo]

It's an odd thing to say, though. The cops are like, so she broke up with you and then you helped her move?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wild.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, okay, sure. They said, well, when is the last time you saw her? Let's call it that way. Let's figure that out. He said, last time I saw her was about 1am really? On August 16, 1997.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Saturday.

[James Petregallo]

Which is Saturday morning. Yeah. So Cops have already been called and already looking for her at that point, he said. But he didn't like hang out with her. He just said he saw her in her car with two males with long hair. Which in 97, not a lot of guys had long hair in 97. It wasn't cool. Even rock guys all cut their hair short. Fucking metal guys had short hair. Everyone had short hair.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fucking Spike.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Spike. Do all of Metallica short hair by 97. All of them, except for Kirk. Kirk took a little longer to adhere, but everybody else short hair by then. Fucking Lars was like blonde by then, for Christ's sake.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But the guys in the other stuff in corn, they had long hair, kind of.

[James Petregallo]

But it was shaved on the sides. It was like. You couldn't have all long hair back then. That was like 80s metal shit. You had to have some shaved shit if you had long hair. Something weird.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Shaved on half.

[James Petregallo]

Shaved on half, around the sides and the back. And a big long thing. Something weird. So two males with long hair. Poison is picking her up? I guess so. Later in the interview he said, all right. Yeah. I also saw her one other day too, on August 13, at the clothing store, which they know that because that's the day that all the employees said.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You called her a whore.

[James Petregallo]

Chasing her around, calling her a whore all day through young Mrs. Now, during that encounter, the reason why he was calling her a whore was because she told him during that encounter that she thought she might be pregnant.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

And it's his.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, fuck.

[James Petregallo]

And he said it isn't mine. You're what?

[Jimmy Wisman]

A whore. A whore. So hold on. He has been sleeping with her still?

[James Petregallo]

Fuck, yeah. Yeah, Very recently.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And he's lying.

[James Petregallo]

And he's lying. He's been dipping his shit everywhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Imagine saying you wouldn't sleep with her because she's been sleeping around. Sleeping around. He clearly just throws biscuits.

[James Petregallo]

He's constantly unwrapped anything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just biscuits at every. Everybody loaded biscuits. God damn.

[James Petregallo]

The New Jersey and Sperminator. That's him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Damn.

[James Petregallo]

So he. Yeah, he said that that caused him. Then he said that on August 15, the day that the police were looking for, he had an argument with her at her apartment regarding the pregnancy. He said he left the apartment and drove around for a while, after which he called Sandra from a payphone across the street from her own apartment. Yeah. So he drove around, then drove back to the apartment to call her from a payphone for some reason rather than just going back. That shit to say makes no sense. During the conversation, call waiting came in on her side. And she said, I'm gonna get it. It's my mother.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. He didn't believe her. He said, Kevin said, I knew it wasn't her mother.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I heard the two beeps. And I know it's not your mom.

[James Petregallo]

Not your mom. That's not your mom's beeps. So he went back up to her apartment. Apartment.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy.

[James Petregallo]

Got in, walked right over to her phone and did star 69.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

That's when.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's when it's John.

[James Petregallo]

That's when John answers the phone. And that's when Kevin became angry and told John on the phone that I'm Sandra's boyfriend and I'm gonna find the address that you're calling from and I'm gonna find you, and I'm gonna take care of this in my way. He said, you're gonna see me, buddy. Yeah. So he's threatening this guy on the phone while she's in the background, screaming, crying, going, why are you doing this? Why do you always do this? Why can't you just leave? What the fuck's going on here? So this is. Now it's all making sense and coming in. So in the background, that's when she could be heard arguing. After the phone call. This is wild. Okay. After the phone call, he said they engaged in sexual intercourse.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now we have. Have sex.

[James Petregallo]

So, yes, consensual sex, he said. So they're arguing, upset, and somehow this turned into them having sex. I don't know how that happened. He then told Donatello the last time he actually saw her, she was in her car with the two guys with long hair. But it might have been 1am on this day. But it could have been. I don't remember exactly when it was. Might have been the next day. I don't even know. He then described to the detective that, he says her promiscuous behavior and suicide attempts in the past.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, she's also attempting.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He's like, listen, she's all whacked out, man. That's what he's telling the cops. Like, she. She fucks everybody. She's a whore. I don't know who this baby is. And she's tried to kill herself before. She runs away all the time. He's the only person that says any of this shit about her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

These are all symptoms of mental health.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. Everybody else says, real nice, real dependable, real normal. Comes home, reads a book.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's mentally ill.

[James Petregallo]

Nuts, crazy. Going off. Now, the prosecutors at the time were going, why does the name Planker sound familiar?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Gross.

[James Petregallo]

Why does Planker. I know that name.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Don't look it up.

[James Petregallo]

And then they went, ew. Ew. It's exactly.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're gonna regret this, boy.

[James Petregallo]

They said, ugh, gross. His father's Wayne.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why'd we open that file?

[James Petregallo]

This is Wayne's kid.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Shit.

[James Petregallo]

They just had looked at, like, Planker. Why is Planker. They looked up Planker, and they're like, there's a Wayne Planker.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, no. Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, gross. Oh, gross. Okay, so they're like, he's in prison. That's nasty. So still on August 17th. Now, this is still Sunday. This all takes place. It's all happening very quickly, this day. The detectives, by the way, they let him walk out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. They got nothing on.

[James Petregallo]

They got nothing on him. They don't even know where she is. So she might be in Wildwood for all they fucking up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She could just be doing great somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I mean, he seems like an asshole, but outside of that, he sucks.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And his dad's worse. But let's.

[James Petregallo]

That doesn't mean you're. You're a kidnapper or whatever. So still, August 17, 1997. On this day, Detective Brian Callahan of the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office received a call from Dana Cott granting him consent to search her 1986 gray Pontiac that she shared with Kevin, her car. This guy is everywhere. This is wild. Holy shit. So he searches the car, and what he finds in the car is wild. Okay? This is what's in the car. Unless you're a logger, you should have none of this shit in your car.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Giant axes.

[James Petregallo]

He has a chainsaw, a gas can, a pickaxe, a chopping axe, two shovels and a bow sweat and a bow saw.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He does not clear brush or any. That is a hardcore dismemberment disposal kit is what that is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That is Paul Bunyan stuff.

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit. Wow. Yeah. The cop does not remove the items from the car. He's gonna wait for a team and do all that kind of shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Big blue ox feed.

[James Petregallo]

Gotta have it. Where's Blue? So August 18, 1997, the Monday. Is it babe? Yeah, babe. Blue is babe. Yeah, babe. Okay. So, yeah, sorry, I'm in the middle of a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's all right.

[James Petregallo]

Murder story. That. Yeah. So the car is found. Her car.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Because otherwise, they didn't know where.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Mitsubishi.

[James Petregallo]

Her Mitsubishi is found at the Vince Lombardi service area of the New Jersey Turnpike. Vince Lombardi's from New Jersey. Oh, that's why.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's Vince Lombardi.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Where's the Vince Lombardi service area. How far?

[James Petregallo]

Who the fuck. That's just where they. They named it. No, no, no, no.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How far from here?

[James Petregallo]

How far from here? How far from Turnpike? Oh, I'm. I'm not sure. In Richfield.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Who knows?

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a little around. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Around. Yeah. Not. Not where she goes. No. Well, not that she. It was there all night. A trucker saw it all night, woke up, it was still there the next morning with like the window open, so he called the cops. And it was her. 96 black Mitsubishi Eclipse.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Nice car.

[James Petregallo]

Hot car for a 21 year old. That's cool. It's like a hot chicken. So this was located in the truck parking lot of the area. That's why it caught his attention. Why is that car here? The car was unlocked with the sunroof open and the keys on the front passenger seat. This is an invitation. Steal this car is what this is exactly. Take this off of my responsibility.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Get away from here.

[James Petregallo]

But no, because this guy called the cops. They came out. In the car was a purse containing all sorts of. Sorts of Sandra's personal paperwork and things. Shit you keep in your purse.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And when is this too? Because that's August. That's rainy season.

[James Petregallo]

August 18th. Yeah, I mean, well, it's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You don't leave the sunroof open overnight, though.

[James Petregallo]

You never. Because it can rain out of nowhere. Northeast, it'll say it's not going to rain. Then a storm just pops up. It happens all the time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now your sunroof sucks.

[James Petregallo]

Now it's wet. Then they talk to Nicholas Ranieri, who's 16 years old at the time. This Callahan meets with him and this guy says that Ranieri was visibly shaken, nervous and definitely scared. What's his problem? He's 16. He's getting talked about. The missing woman. Yeah, it's a homicide. You're brought to the homicide department and sat in a fucking interrogation room next to homicide cops. That sounds scary when you're 16. So Ranieri gave some information, but the Callahan guy terminates the interview, telling Ranieri, quote, there's a lot more. More saying about Ranieri. There was a lot more that he wasn't telling and that we're going to speak again, basically. Listen, you're not telling me everything. Now, I'm going to let you go home and think about it and then we'll get back to you, go have.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Some wet shit for a few weeks.

[James Petregallo]

And then we'll see if you got a fucking change of your tune. Asshole.

[Jimmy Wisman]

See if you're willing to get that Shit solidified.

[James Petregallo]

So back to Chad the neighbor. Now Chad the neighbor, this is friend zone. Friend zone guy here, he said he, he said he believes that Kevin killed her. So I think Kevin killed Sandra because they had just broken up. They fought loudly outside her apartment building on the night she disappeared, he said. And when he called Sandra from his friend's house in Lodi to see if she was all right, she told him she was talking to Planker on the other line.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

So Chad might be that guy by the way, because in the newspaper it said he will only identify himself as Chad. So that might not be his real name. He might be John. Who's the guy that the boy. Okay, so it's all connected.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Maybe Chad's scared of Blanker.

[James Petregallo]

I think so, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I think Chad's pretty fucking scared.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. He got threatened by a guy who could kill him. He just wants to come over and.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fix it his way.

[James Petregallo]

Fix this. We'll take care of this my way. He said she'd seen he wasn't going to change and she wanted to get rid of him. She was petrified of, of him and was telling me that she was going to move back home to be safe. She didn't want to have to worry about him back home to her parents house. Now also Chad describes, you know, Planker as this big giant guy, 6, 3, 2, 40. And said that also during their relationship, Sandra told me that he used to hit her also. He's hit her before. And because she's scared of him, Sandra spent as much time with Chad as she could. So she wasn't over at the apartment. He said, she called me the night that she went missing. She was crying, she'd had a fight with Kevin. That's the last thing I ever heard from her. So Tuesday, August 19th, here Dana Cott gives a statement to police describing certain items of furniture that are missing, including a coffee table, television, television stand, dishes, pots, pans and other accessories that Kevin brought into their apartment over this last weekend.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Shit.

[James Petregallo]

From her apartment.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why would he do that?

[James Petregallo]

Fucking a coffee table he's brought.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why would you take that?

[James Petregallo]

It's dumb as Fuck. So Wednesday, August 20th, that's when Dana Cott gives them consent to search her apartment. Yeah, and they search the apartment and they seize several items belonging to Sarah to Sandra Terranova. During the course they, during the course of the search, several people, including Kevin, approached the apartment. Apartment. Now Callahan was the perimeter security outside. Kevin walks right up to him and says, you know, you guys are wasting your time. You should be out Catching people who are robbing banks, you know, real criminals. She's over in Wildwood. You're breaking my fucking balls. The guy said, well, you know, just doing my job. Just doing my job. And then Kevin says this. Oh, boy, here it is, everybody. Kevin looks at the guy and says, well, just remember, no body, no crime.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why do they always.

[James Petregallo]

And fucking walks away. Why would you tell a homicide detective that? Don't tell him that. Not even in ever.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're not even a suspect yet.

[James Petregallo]

Just remember, no body, no crime.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You don't find anything. Nothing happened.

[James Petregallo]

I picture him winking once and, like, nudging him with his elbow. And then. What the fuck are you doing?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

Nobody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No crime yet again.

[James Petregallo]

I remember.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's incredible.

[James Petregallo]

This guy's a fucking idiot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Doesn't Jersey come up in that song, too? I think it does.

[James Petregallo]

Jersey? No. Trench town. That is in. Not in this country. Never mind.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's another one in. There's a Jersey reference in the fugees version.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, yes, yes. There you go. Yeah. So nobody. No crime. Incredible. He actually just remembered. Just remember, it's gonna be a small town murder episode. Okay? He might as well have said that because that cemented it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's so fascinating, too, that these people say that shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And that's not true anymore.

[James Petregallo]

It hasn't been true for a long time. For so long. So the same day now, five o', clock, the cops are gonna talk to Nicholas Ranieri again. Let's see if you're.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hey there.

[James Petregallo]

Wanna have a little squirt?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Come here.

[James Petregallo]

Come here, squirt. Now that your asshole's sore and puckery, let's talk about this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're gonna call you squirt for more reasons than you're 16.

[James Petregallo]

Come here. That's right. And more reasons than you're 16 size. So he describes, as he did here, the events involving him and Kevin on the morning of August 17th. Oh, he said, all right, Monday. That's the Sunday.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sunday. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said, okay, fine, I will. I'll talk. He said that that morning, Kevin picked him up in the gray Pontiac that is the Dana Kotz car. There were shovels, a chainsaw, a gas can in the car that were normally not in the car.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They're never in the car.

[James Petregallo]

Never in the car. So he said that Kevin drove Raniere to Jefferson Township, where he pulled into a dirt road near a chain link fence. He then stopped at a clearing and turned to Raniere and said, there's a body over there. You have to help me hide it. Never tell Me that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hello, child.

[James Petregallo]

Never tell me there's a body. You have to help me hide it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You have to fuck. No.

[James Petregallo]

No, I don't. I am running. So Ranieri said he observed a mound of. A mound of dirt about 1 foot high and 6ft long, covered with dirt and sticks. He said that. Jesus Christ, that Kevin walked over to it, quote, started hopping on it, and then he urinated on it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

This guy's a piece of shit monster. He then shoveled more dirt onto the pile. Then Kevin cut down several trees with a chainsaw.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And pulled them over the mound.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a lot of noise he's making.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he's. And freshly cut trees laying on. He can't make it more obvious. Gee, we're looking for disturbed ground. How about where all those freshly cut trees are laying for some reason?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Follow your nose. It's gonna smell like wood chips.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, like.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God dang.

[James Petregallo]

Trees fall in the woods. They aren't chainsaw. None of my trees that fall, I go out there and go, smooth, smooth, smooth. Break.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I gotta take you for a little walk too. There is a scary spot out there.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

We'll talk. So he then, okay, so this is wild. He cuts down trees, pulls him over the mound, then Kevin backs the car down the dirt road a short distance, cuts another tree, causing it to fall across the road. So no one could be able to drive back here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, he's hiding it real good.

[James Petregallo]

Fucking block the road. Road. He said they were in the clearing for about an hour. So only took him an hour to do all this shit. It's fast. Raniere did not ask Kevin whose body was in the grave. He said, I did not want to know and I didn't want anything about it. And while driving home, Kevin told Ranieri, quote, there's a couple people in this world that I wouldn't kill even if they put me away. And you're one of them.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Only a couple.

[James Petregallo]

Only a couple people I wouldn't kill in this world. And you're one of them.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got my whole life ahead of me.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. That's what you want to hear, though, after you help somebody cover a body or you go with them to a body location. So you're not going to kill me. Good.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So this is just above ground. He just put shit on it.

[James Petregallo]

Just put shit on it. It's a very shallow grave, but it's not deep enough for a human body. So after giving his statement, Ranieri drew a map of the grave location. That night. They drove out there the Detective drove out to the area but couldn't locate the dirt road because it was rainy and foggy out. So he gave up. The next day, he found the dirt road. Ranieri went with him, helped him find the dirt road and led him to the area. At about 9:55pm is when they uncovered Sandra's body.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

It contained clothing and jewelry matching the description of Sandra. And she has a rose tattoo that matches. Bingo. So we know where she is. So that's August 23rd. As they find her, they found the trees down across the road which matched up exactly to what Ranieri told them. Because at first they thought Ranieri was full of shit. They thought he was lying about this too. But then once they see the trees down, they go, oh, either he did this or he's telling the truth. They don't think he did it because he had no reason.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Too little.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He didn't even have a license. I don't think so. They found fresh dirt where Sandra was buried in a heavily wooded area off Berkshire Valley road near Route 50. The body was about a half mile into the woods near the dirt road. They said it was a watershed property in Jefferson Township. Sandra was buried beneath one and a half feet of dirt.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That is so shitty.

[James Petregallo]

That is so fucking lazy, too. You kill someone to be lazy. Her body was clothed except for her shoes and was found by prosecutors and Bergen County Sheriff's Department officers Thursday. Because the prosecuting attorneys came for this too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Everyone said, we're gonna find her. So whoever wants to be there, be there. And they came out. Assistant Bergen county prosecutor Sharon Pfeiffer said that a tentative identification was made from the rose tattoo on her ankle.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It feels like that shallow of a grave would leave a depression eventually.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, eventually, yeah, it will.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Because there's just. The body takes up too much space. That's gonna.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. That's bad planning.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Bad fucking planning. Around the site were six or seven cigarette butts. Oh. A discovery apparently presented to tie into the claims that because Plankers. A smoker.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they know he smokes and these are cigarette butts. They also said they spent several hours painstakingly removing and examining the brush that covered the grave. That's why it wasn't until 9:55. They couldn't just rip everything off to do it properly. Properly. They said the grave was six feet long and two feet wide.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Lazy. And, yeah, he said also that she was. Sandra was lying on her left side in there. Her face was entirely swollen and her eyes were swollen Shut. And her hands were clenched. The detective said she was unrecognizable, just beaten. Beaten? Yeah, silly. Now, the prosecutor was there as well. He is the new Bergen county prosecutor, William Hill Schmidt. He said he remembers standing over the grave in the woods and said, you thought it could be your daughter, your niece. It had an impact on everyone who was there that day. I thought, what went wrong? This was not a random victim. How can we take something tragic like this and learn from it?

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's not a lot.

[James Petregallo]

And that is tough too. Because she's small.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So that makes him look even more vulnerable. You know what I mean? You find somebody small in there, it's even. Hey, it even sadder. Five foot girl, five three, £100.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is no match for a six foot three guy.

[James Petregallo]

No, he's enormous.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He knows how to throw a punch.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The autopsy discloses the presence of spermatozoa with DNA in there. That we'll find out when that matches in her vaginal canal. The external exam discloses bruises surrounding the left eye, on the scapular area of the left side of her back and on the right lower back, which occurred pre death and were the result of blunt force trauma. There were also bruising on the victim's feet, beat her feet, occurring postmortem.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why?

[James Petregallo]

They said that could have resulted from being dragged, possibly by things. The hyoid bone in the neck was broken.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, so a strangulation.

[James Petregallo]

No, it's a strangle job. The cause of death was mechanical asphyxia and blunt trauma to the head and face with an associated finding of a fracture to the hyoid bone. Age inside her was an embryo? No, about six weeks old.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She was pregnant.

[James Petregallo]

That was pregnant. DNA matches. Who? Kevin.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a problem.

[James Petregallo]

That is Kevin's baby in there. Absolutely.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That adds to problems, though.

[James Petregallo]

There's a lot of problems with this. So. Yeah, it makes him look even guiltier. So after Kevin was questioned, like we said, you know, we knew he denied everything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

But we found out from Ranieri that basically they questioned him on that Sunday, they released him, and he went right, and picked up Ranieri and headed straight for the woods.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

He went from the fucking prosecutor's office to get Ranieri to go to the woods to cover this up better because she was already buried. But now he put the trees on it and shit to make it better. So that's when he used the chainsaw. The prosecutor said he went back after being questioned and tried to disguise the grave.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fascinating.

[James Petregallo]

So he's arrested, obviously, you know Having a lot of problems.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Very weird that he's so rageful and capable of doing terrible, terrible things. And he didn't use any of those instruments to make the body smaller?

[James Petregallo]

Nope, none of those. None of that. Saws everywhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just for the trees?

[James Petregallo]

Yep, just for the trees. Super fucking weird. Gas can. Thought maybe he's gonna burn her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Nothing.

[James Petregallo]

Nothing at all.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just cutting down some trees and stacking wood.

[James Petregallo]

So strange. So they sit him down again for another interrogation. By the way, he's on parole, so this is real bad. This is real bad. Not that it'll be good anyway, but.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is extra worse.

[James Petregallo]

They read him his Miranda rights, took him to the Rochelle Park Police Department. He declined to sign the Miranda waiver form as a thing, which doesn't matter as long as you say it to him. They can't force you to sign it. It's just whatever. So they said that he appeared as if he was not concerned with the. Because they said, we found Sandra's body. They said it appeared he was not concerned. One of the reasons why he didn't appear concerned is because rather than putting his head in his hands or something like that, he was, quote, making gestures with his hands and fingers as if he was playing the guitar. He was air guitar. He was going to. Sandra's dead.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We found her body air guitaring American Girl.

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck are you doing? This is weird.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You think he's the villain? Tedx.

[James Petregallo]

That's all I could think of. He's like, fucking Wayne and Garth here. This is ridiculous.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's like, that's how he celebrates. Brown. We found her.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. I don't understand it. Rock on, guys. Yeah. Woo. Metal. Wow. So he initially just reiterates the same story, that she's at the shore. Then they ask him, when you killed her, was it spontaneous or an accident? Oh, so he stands up. He's very bad at this. He stands up and paces back and forth for a while. Imagine just pacing, pacing. After which sometime he's just muttered accidentally. They're like, oh, okay. So now they're like, we're gonna take you to the prosecutor's office. Now that we kind of cracked you a little bit there. He signed a Miranda form for the prosecutor and starts talking.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he's gonna talk. Oh, yeah. He said on Thursday, August 14, he went to Sandra's apartment to discuss their relationship. They talked on the steps of her apartment building, then proceeded upstairs and engaged in sexual relations. Relations. He said that he felt that the sex wasn't good and he did not orgasm because he felt that Sandra was seeing other men.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, then why did you.

[James Petregallo]

Why did you come out if you knew that beforehand? Why'd you do it if that made you so weirded out? And then once you're in it, you're in it, so get into it. What are you doing?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Finished.

[James Petregallo]

Didn't finish.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But you did. Because we got it.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no. He's been that. Well, that's what he says. That's. I mean, he must have. I'm just saying. This is what he says. It's fucking true. This is what he said.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Not true. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He said. Then he left the apartment, drove around the block.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Then at about 7pm Called from the pay phone, which is what he said, before the call was interrupted by call waiting. He went back up to the apartment, checked the caller ID, activated the Star 69 feature. A male voice answered. Sandra attempted to take the phone from him after a brief, strange struggle, after which he ripped the phone from the wall and stepped on it, breaking it into several pieces.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Whoa.

[James Petregallo]

He broke and stomped her phone. That's when he said he threw her on the bed. She was crying. And this sexually aroused him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He said, this one did it.

[James Petregallo]

That's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now I can finish.

[James Petregallo]

Now I can finish. I like terror. That's what I go for.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's too much consent.

[James Petregallo]

She was all into it. It was weird, you know. He then said he began to engage in sexual intercourse with her but thought that Sandra was, quote, not into it. So he said they stopped the sexual encounter and he asked Sandra if she was fucking anyone else, to which she replied, I can't fuck anyone. I have to make love.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

That's what he says. So then he says, this is insane. He then said he ripped her shirt off and bit her breast, like, hard. Not okay. Not in a fun way. Not in a fun way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not a nibble. A bite. Then he took his hands and applied pressure to her throat until she turned red and stopped breathing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Then he just threw her lifeless body to the floor.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He said, which part of that was an accident?

[James Petregallo]

Dumb accident.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He then said just to make sure, he put a telephone cord around her neck to try to make it look like a suicide. But he was unable to find a place where he could hang the cord. He was gonna hang her up, but he's like, there's nowhere to fucking hang the cord in here. So he got st with that. Couldn't do anything. So instead he just dressed himself, dressed her back up again, dressed her corpse and left the apartment. He took a fucking Corpse out of this apartment to the car.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Which is ballsy. That's ballsy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

During the daytime.

[James Petregallo]

During. I think this is nighttime now, but either way, it's crazy. He then took her car. He said he confided to his friend Mike Vasile that he had just murdered Sandra. After which Vasile began to cry and told him he didn't want to be involved because he's not a monster. This Mike Vasile's a decent human being. He said, oh, my God, you killed Sandra. I like Sandra. That's horrible. What's wrong with you? He then obtained a shovel from the shed of his friend Pat Gallagher, and also told Gallagher he killed Sandra, too. Stop telling.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Where are all these fellas at?

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What's your problem, guys?

[James Petregallo]

Where are these people? Where are the people telling that his dad's telling he's gonna rape 14 year olds and let them do. Where are these people?

[Jimmy Wisman]

New Jersey keeps secrets like nobody.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, mind your fucking business.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's not my problem.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, mind your business in every aspect except for this. Maybe the murder, but not if somebody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Tells you they killed somebody, believe them.

[James Petregallo]

Somebody tells you they're molesting children, don't mind your business at that point. So he said that he told this guy that he said he returned to Sandra's apartment at about midnight. That's when he carried the body down to the car, drove to Jefferson Township where he buried it, returned the shovel to his friend, and went back to Sandra's apartment, where he proceeded to take items of her furniture, because why not? She won't need them. He transported those items to his apartment that he shared with Cott, and then he went to sleep.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

He also confirmed Ranieri's recitation of events Aug. 17 and recounted how he brought Sandra's car to the Vince Lombardi service area as well. He stated that he was a real control freak. I think we got that. And in the past, he had placed neckties around Sandra's neck as if he was choking her while they had sex. So he was into that. And this was just a bigger step, he said. Then after that, he refused to write it out. He wouldn't write it. He wouldn't do that. He wouldn't do a stenographic statement. So that's what they have now. Pretty obvious what they think happened, obviously, you know, pretty clear. He just gave it all up. And it's all matches, all the evidence. Don't know what he was thinking, but yeah. He drove off Berkshire Valley Road into a dirt Path leading in the woods put Terranova in a shallow grave, covered it with dirt, and that was it. Thought, I'll get away with that. Then they interviewed him. He went, oh, shit, I got to go back and cover that grave up better. And that's what he did to block the path and then drop the car off. In his first court appearance, he is described by the newspaper as looking sullen as he stood in the courtroom wearing shackles and an orange prison jumpsuit. He really surprised everybody when the judge, William Meehan, asked him if he wanted a lawyer. He didn't have a lawyer. And he said, no, sir, I intend to plead guilty.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

And the judge said, I'm gonna go ahead and enter a not guilty plea for you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're get you a lawyer.

[James Petregallo]

You haven't spoke to a lawyer yet. So you're gonna get a lawyer before you plead guilty to murder, let's say. So I'm gonna enter that for you and set your bail at a million dollars, which go to jail. You're not getting out. So he does give him not guilty, though. So then he showed no emotion during the appearance. He did complain while the prosecutor was reading off a bunch of stuff saying that he had once been arrested for drug possession. He said, I'd never been arrested for drugs in my life, nor convicted.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It's like, weed's not drugs.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So don't do the hard stuff. Leave me alone.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got arrested for a plant.

[James Petregallo]

Come on. So Sandra's parents, her father and her sister's. Her father and her sister's fiance attended the arraignment there. The prosecutor said about that. Having your daughter found in a shallow grave, that's got to be every father's nightmare, I would say so shallow, deep, really. The grave size is really not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The grave is the part that sucks.

[James Petregallo]

In the grave is what I'm more about. So can we prevent this? After the murder here, the prosecutor gathered domestic violence experts, police, prosecutors, counselors, and representatives of Alternatives to Domestic Violence, a county program that ministers to battered men and women. And saying, how can we fix this? Basically, yeah, you know, how can other potential victims, particularly young people who aren't like in a 20 year marriage, that can get out of this easily. How do we get through to these people? They said Sandra will be among those remembered on a special day of remembrance to remember victims of domestic violence in the state. There'll be a march and a program at the State House sponsored by the New Jersey Federation of Women's Clubs. Stop beating us. Is there?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If You've been hit. Get out.

[James Petregallo]

Get the fuck out. It's not going to get better.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Doesn't matter.

[James Petregallo]

It ain't getting better either side.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If he or she has hit you, it's only going to get worse.

[James Petregallo]

We're not going to fix it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

And it's. It's just. Get the fuck out of there. Whatever the consequences are of leaving, they will be smoothed out by time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

In five years, I'm sure it's going to be much better.

[James Petregallo]

I don't care if you have to sleep in your car for a while. It's better than physical peril like that. It's crazy. So trial comes up. He wants to represent himself.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

This fucking idiot wants to represent himself.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He now wants to talk about it and plead not guilty.

[James Petregallo]

So they said he'd expressed a desire to represent himself. The judge engaged in an extensive back and forth with him and concluded that he had made a knowing and willing and intelligent voluntary waiver of his right. And now he can go ahead and railroad himself to prison.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fuck himself as long as he.

[James Petregallo]

Right in the ass. He also expressed his wish that his lawyer White remain available to advise and assist him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Great call.

[James Petregallo]

So the judge ordered that the defendant be permitted to proceed pro se and designated Weishel as standby counsel. The state does not oppose the request in the trial court and does not. They can't oppose it because if he really wants to do it, that's a big appeal ground later on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, you got your right. And if you're standing on your morals like this, then all right, let's, let's do it.

[James Petregallo]

And I think though a lot of these people. Laurels. Yeah, I think a lot of these people too that represent themselves think that there'll be some fuck ups that they can then figure out in appeals because they. Which is not really how it works.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's not good strategy.

[James Petregallo]

It's a bad strategy. So the case is given to a new judge. This is the judge Meehan guy who did all the pretrial shit here. So they talked about. Kevin complains to judge Meehan that there's been no investigation undertaken on his behalf by the public defense defender's office. So a representative of the public defender's office said, our position is that we are in or out. If we are out, the most we will do is stand by counsel and answer your questions. Your honor hasn't ordered anything. If your honor orders something, maybe our position will be different. We're not volunteering to undertake any investigations for the defendant unless our guy is the Attorney of record, basically. Like, if we're not trying the case.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Doing it, then we're not doing it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we're not not doing it. So then the following took place. The judge said, are you capable of handling this matter? Do you believe that? And Kevin said, no, not entirely.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Not really.

[James Petregallo]

Not particularly. I'm a dummy. I've been hitting the head a lot. I don't know if you know that. I'm asking for co counsel. And if the public defender's office does not want to issue co counsel, I'm asking that the court act as co counsel. The judge cannot act as co counsel.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That is a conflict of interest like you can't believe.

[James Petregallo]

Not legally a sound thing at all. And the court judge said, the court will not act as co counsel. So Kevin says, somebody has to. Not me, motherfucker. Get a lawyer that's not already involved in the case in another way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, God damn it, Judge, somebody has.

[James Petregallo]

To get one of the prosecutors to help me. I don't know shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Give me anybody. I don't care.

[James Petregallo]

Somebody has to. That's a great call.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Somebody has to. I don't know the law.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know shit. He said, if I'm gonna be granted pro se or to be. The only thing I'm asking is that I'm able to. That I be able to cr. Cross examine the witnesses that I want to cross examine. I'll be able to present my opening and closing statements, and that's it. Other than that, I mean, the only reason I'm even taking this stance right now is because nothing was done that I wanted. As a matter of fact, the opposite things were done that I asked for. What I am going to do is sit back and let everybody. What am I going to do? Sit back and let everybody do what they want. It's my life on the line here. It's my life we're talking about, and I would like to play a role in it. So the judge then asks his counsel, what reason is there that you could not handle this matter? And the judge said that he didn't think the defendant had any confidence. I don't think he has any confidence in me, so I don't want to be on this case anymore. To which Kevin said, I don't feel that way. I have 100% confidence in him. The problem is that I don't have confidence that he has confidence. He's not confident in me. That's the thing. He doesn't believe that I'm innocent, you know, because all the DNA by The way the DNA in her is his. Yeah, it all matches. You're fucked.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got confidence in me. I don't got confidence that he's got confidence in him.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Or no, in me. That's the case.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Or anybody.

[James Petregallo]

He might have read my interrogation, and I would.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He might know something, you, Honor.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. The judge then said to that counsel, I'll put you back in the case right now. We'll keep this probably coming in about every week or two. And then he said that he was vacating the order allowing the defendant to represent himself, after which the defendant was. And said, what the fuck?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why not?

[James Petregallo]

He said, so I'm no longer able to participate. And the judge says you can. And he said, right now we may deal with it down the road. The judge says, you have to make the choice when the trial date gets set as to whether or not you want to try the case entirely or you want Mr. Weichel to try it entirely. And he said, can it be done halfway? Can we have this shit? I mean, what the fuck? And the judge says, not unless you and Mr. Wishl and the public defender's office can agree on some division of responsibility. Because one of the first appeals in every murder case that I've seen is incompetent counsel. It's added in. He said, it's so Mr. Wishl, if he's going to try the whole case and you want to accuse him of incompetent counsel down the road, it's fine if you do. So they said, if you can do some research and find something that deals with it, we will consider it. So if you can find legal precedent, idiot who's been hit in the head a lot, do that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Find some case law. Deal. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You know how to do that, I'm sure. So he said, well, that's what I'll do. Then Kevin said, he said, I'm not asking that Mr. Weishelt to come in and do what I tell him to do and this and that and blah, blah and blah blah and blah blah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Legal jargon.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I believe you know legal stuff that I don't know. I fill it in with a blah. He said, I believe that's my right to be able to do this. And the judge says, look it up. If you come up with a case that says it, I'll allow it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It wasn't Charlie Day. Sit down.

[James Petregallo]

Find new precedents. Bird law. Let's see what you got.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jesus Christ.

[James Petregallo]

So on 10-8-99, following the denial of a motion to suppress, he requested through counsel, permission to ask questions with his attorney and we can both tag team him. The judge says, I'm not going to. I don't even. First of all, I'm so frustrated, so frustrated with you. Other than when there are two attorneys, my rule is only one attorney per witness. Whoever, like someone stands up in a position, objects, they got that witness whether they like it or not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

But I'm not going to. I don't think it works well as a strategy you have. You certainly would be destroyed as an attorney. Questions may not follow through and sequences from one witness to another. I'm going to deny their request.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're going to be excoriated.

[James Petregallo]

It's going to be bad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're going to jail if you do this.

[James Petregallo]

Totally. So the defense attorney says, I just want to note for the record, that's what my client client wants. And so they said, fine. So Weichel's gonna make opening statements. Basically. They're gonna allow, they're gonna allow Kevin to basically tell this guy what to say.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fine.

[James Petregallo]

He can ask all. The guy, the lawyer asks all the questions. But Kevin's like writing down the questions for him to ask. Ask him this, ask him that, which is. Whenever it's a defendant doing this, it's always like personal shit that doesn't matter. It's Lori Valo asking about my green ch. Chili chicken. Fucking enchiladas does not help at all. It's bad. So the state calls several witnesses. WYCHL has objections in cross examining the witnesses. Pretty uneventful shit here. This continues on October 27th. Then for the first time in the trial, in the middle of October 27, 1999, all of a sudden, Kevin says, I'd like to restore him to a standby role. My lawyer. I'd like to be the lawyer again. He said that the judge told the judge there were questions he believed should be asked and that his attorney wasn't asking. He said, I'm prepared to ask the questions that need to be asked. The judge replied, that's why I requested Mr. Weichel stand next to you so that you can communicate with him. And he said, oh, okay, yeah. He said, now I understand that. I'll abide by those rulings. That wasn't stipulated before. Thank you. You don't even know what stipulated means. So subsequent to this, the defense counsel had stood next to him at all times. Times while, you know, there was. While he was asking questions, he stood next to defense counsel and the defendant told the counsel what questions to ask. In spite of numerous conferences with Kevin, the Defense counsel refused to ask certain questions or call certain witnesses he deemed as irrelevant. Well, number one, you're not going to be allowed. Yeah, you can't call irrelevant people just to tell a story that you want.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You can't just jam up this court with stories about the meter reader.

[James Petregallo]

Oh. So the defense counsel later on set forth for the record his reasons for not complying with all the requests. Anyway, Kevin chooses to proceed pro se must be able and willing to abide by the rules of procedure in courtroom protocol. The judge said, and he said that his original decision to. To revoke his right of self representation may not be based on the defendant's lack of technical knowledge or the complexity of the case. So he said, listen, it's their right whether they want to know anything or not. Anyway, so they said this is a hybrid representation that usually doesn't happen in New Jersey. Yeah, this is bizarre because, like in, because we just did this with the Lori Vallow Daybell. And the judge basically said, either you're the lawyer or your lawyer's the lawyer. Only one of you is going to talk. We're going to call it advisory counsel. They're going to sit next to you. If at any point you decide you want them to do anything, you, you're done. Then it's changes to her and that's the end of your shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If you can't handle it, then you're not the lawyer.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Yep. And so they said, although a defendant has the constitutional right to proceed with or without counsel, the right to hybrid representation may be foreclosed and is to be avoided whenever possible. It says in New Jersey shit. So it makes sense. Anyway, they're going to let him be half of his own lawyer. Anyway, they said even though the defendant does not have a constitutional right to quarry choreograph a counsel's role, he granted him the right by requesting that the defense counsel remain next to him. So basically he's going to stick his hand up your ass and talk for you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Howdy. Duty today.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. So the defense counsel complies with the requests by repeatedly conferring with Kevin and allowing Kevin to control the examination of witnesses. So yeah, they said that's how that goes. His attorney is fucking frustrated, this guy John L. Weishel. He is frustrated. Yeah. He doesn't know what the fuck to do. He's just really resetting. Said, I'll defend you. Please don't do this. We said that Planker would not be denied. This is just the way it is. Now during the beginning of the trial. There is a juror death threat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Which doesn't happen often. Yes, a threat against one of the jurors. Her house was called, her husband answered the phone and they were told something very specifically here. The trial, it's crazy. Okay, I'll get to this. Here. Happened right in the beginning of the trial. And the juror's husband picked up the phone and the person said, if Kevin Planker is convicted, your wife is dead.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So the husband called authorities who told him not to tell his wife. Don't tell her, don't tell her because it'll fuck the whole trial up. You'll have to have a mistrial if we do this. So in requesting the story be withheld, the cops said they were concerned that other friends or family members of the jurors in the case might report, read about the threat and inform the target and a mistrial would have followed. So Kevin likes to get involved, by the way, in the trial. He's very animated in the courtroom, feeding questions to the lawyer, grabbing him by the shirt and shit like that. Sometimes abruptly popping up from his seat to object to a question or comment.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He thinks he got a stand to do it.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. A section of the tree, of the trunk of the hickory tree that rested on the shallow grave was placed on a juror on a table for jurors to examine. Physical piece of something to look at. A wedge from the tree, presumably cut by the chainsaw, was also presented. Look at all the shit he had to do. They also showed the jurors shovels, a chainsaw and other evidence served seized from the home. Obviously Kevin has to testify. He has no choice, really. He's fucked otherwise. There's DNA.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He said he didn't do it.

[James Petregallo]

He said he didn't do it. He testifies for 11 hours.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Eesh. Wow, that's too days.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

He offered a rigorous defense here. And vigorous and rigorous. He blamed the killing on the woman, female ministry person he was fucking who she'll testify.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why would he do that? When you've got a little guy that told the cops where the body is?

[James Petregallo]

That's who did it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's how you gotta blame.

[James Petregallo]

Nope, it's her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

It's her. Isn't that crazy? It's a dumb.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She put my semen in her.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, she did all that? She had it from her. She took it and she transferred it. He says that the woman was in love with him and. Yeah, he said that Dana, she. No, no, no, no. Dana's not the church lady. Yeah, he complained bitterly that authorities had allegedly pressured family members and friends and turning against him. Yeah, he gave some testimony, also some honest testimony, about the more sordid details of his life, including his habitual marijuana use, criminal record, and circle of girlfriends. Nine hours of direct testimony, and it was two hours across. He had an answer for all the shit here, including, because they have to go, well, why'd you confess to this crime?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And, yeah, he just said, they just pressured me into it, and, you know, I felt pressure, and I felt bad for Sandra, and I just wanted to, you know, make it all stop. And blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They'd shut up and I can get back to air guitar.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe I can be in the. His attorney, by the way, was frustrating, frustrated as well. He reported in open court that his client had given him 27 pages of questions to ask during his testimony. Ask me all this shit. Wow. That's amazing. So he blames everyone. Even though he confessed, he denied killing her, contradicting his confession. He definitely said it was the ministry worker that he met in jail in 95 and 96 who was in love with him and jealous of the. The women in his life. The judge cut him off as he tried to continue with his accusations against the ministry lady here, saying that we're not going to allow that. It wasn't cleared ahead of time. The alternate suspect thing, in earlier testimony here, he kept blaming her and was alluding to her. He claims that she was in love with him and was consumed by jealousy toward any other women in his life, especially Sandra. And also. Also this woman. They get this woman on the stand, and she has to admit that not only, yes, they were having an affair, that she had sexual encounters in jail with him. I knew it was a rule. I didn't know it was a law.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, she's out here ruining her life.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus. So he denied burying her, killing her? Denied. He denied confessing to the cops. He didn't just say the confession was wrong. He said, I didn't say any of that shit. Which is wild. The defense theory was that Sandra Goldswig, that's the woman's name, the church lady was the one who should.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sandra, too.

[James Petregallo]

Sandra also. Absolutely. Wow. They said, were you advised by your attorney? Because they said that you said you went out there, that your friend said he peed on, pissed on the grave, all this. He said, Absolutely 100%, which is the same thing O.J. said. Follow the word guilty, 100% guilty. That's what he said. So he basically ojed it, which is not good. Not good to be an OJ somewhere around there. He added, he did say some things to the cop because he was overcome by emotion. After investigators showed him pictures of Sandra in a makeshift grave, Kevin grew teary eyed when he spoke with the photos. He said he spoke to them and believed he was Halloween hallucinating. So anything I may or may not have said I was hallucinating. Who knows?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Said all the colors.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I was just thinking that she was gone. She said that they said that she was pregnant and that it could have been my kid. I was just thinking life is short.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure is.

[James Petregallo]

Life is short. He said, I never told them anything. I never told them anything about the death of Sandra Terranova because I did not kill Sandra Terranova. Sandra Golds week killed Sandra Terranova. And then when they do the cross examination, they ask a question and he says, the jury already thinks I'm guilty so you can just get on with the case. He tells her, just ask your fucking questions. Not a good showing on the stand.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

So they gotta bring Sandra Goldswig in there to testify, to admit to everything but deny being jealous or killing anybody. Basically she said, no, I didn't kill her. I didn't bury her or know anything about that alibi. Witnesses are not allowed that he's mad at Pat Gallagher, the guy he got the shovel from. Pat Gallagher Sr. And Pat Gallagher Jr. And Carol Gallagher said they would have testified that Kevin was in their home on August 15th from 12am to 4.30am he just comes in the middle of the night for a while during a time when a woman's being murdered and buried and then he leaves.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's what he does with lawn equipment.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. That's wild. So they said. Said that the Gallaghers would have also testified that he could not have taken a shovel from their premises. So that locked shed, who knows. Additionally, a certification from Charbon Sabini states that another person had tried to solicit the victim's murder. Somebody wanted him. Else wanted her dead. Although the Gallaghers were present during the trial and the judge had ruled at defendant's personal request that they be permitted to testify, the defense counsel did not call them as well witnesses instead instructing them to leave the courthouse so they can't be called to talk about the shovel. Then he's going to put them under oath and talk about that. He'd come to your house and get out of here or else you're willing to lie. But are you willing to lie under oath?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Can you touch a Bible?

[James Petregallo]

That's it? Now, in the closing arguments, Weichel went as far as to plead with jurors to discount their. He said, listen, please, I know that it looks. Looks bad. Discount your personal feelings for my client. We all know he's an asshole. We all know it, every one of us. I hate the guy and I'm his attorney. I can't stand him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Your personal feelings for this guy.

[James Petregallo]

He's an asshole, but he's not a guilty asshole is what he says. The verdict disagrees. The jury finds him fucking guilty of any and everything possible here. They needed less than two hours to convict him of six counts of murder, burglary, theft. For killing all this shit. First degree murder, two counts of third degree burglary, third degree hindering prosecution, two counts of third degree theft by unlawful taking.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, he hurt her so bad and then took her coffee table. That's unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

He said, I like that 27 inch zenith. I'm grab that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What the fuck? It'd be a shame for that to go to waste.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, she's got a Mitsubishi car, matches her tv. I'm going to take this too. So yeah, by the way, I would think hindering prosecution would be. Every defendant would get that. Unless you did the crime and went right to the police station and turned yourself in. You're hindering prosecution.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're in a trial right now.

[James Petregallo]

It's all hindering prosecution.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're fighting back.

[James Petregallo]

Not guilty is hindering prosecution. So that's so weird. You could charge anyone with that. Now the jury finds him guilty. That's to be expected. All the evidence. But what's not to be expected is the fact that while the jury was being read, Kevin let out an over dramatic big long yawn like he wasn't listening. He yawned. What? That's what he did. At least he didn't bust into air guitar. But still he did a big bored yawn, big board yawn, then yawned several more times as the jurors answered questions posed by the judge. What a psychopath.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a big fuck you, by the way.

[James Petregallo]

In the middle of this trial, the trial judge had to have emergency surgery and they had to switch judges out too. So they're dealing with another judge here. Now the family reaction. The Terranova family and friends are all hugging each other. Terranova, this is Chad. Chad. I guess Chad's a real person, so I don't know if she was seeing too. I don't know what was going on. Chad said he got exactly what he did deserved. And a close friend of Terranova, Amanda Demartin said, I'm glad it's over. He got what he deserved. So the jurors feel the same way. One juror said that, quote, we didn't come out of there hating Kevin Planker.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

He said, a person's demeanor is the way they are. It didn't necessarily make him a murderer. In our hearts, we felt like we did the right thing. So she said we didn't. This is appealable shit. She said it wasn't because he was an asshole. It's because he's a murderer.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He is. But he's also this.

[James Petregallo]

Also that the jurors never discussed, by the way, his attempts to shift blame for the killing onto the other. They never even brought that up as a possibility. That was just a bullshit thing he threw out. They didn't believe him. They weighed his credibility against the investigating authorities, and they said it all boiled down to whether you believed his statement. If you did, then you had to believe that the 27 people from the prosecutor's office perjured themselves.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, because they didn't record the statement, 97, you still didn't have to have everything recorded. So nowadays, obviously, the video would come on and we'd have all the interrogation we needed. But at the time, this was just writing down what he said from the notes. So the juror then, who was threatened finds out about the death threat after the trial's over. She said she was. What the fuck? 1. She said she was as shocked as anyone. What the fuck, man? This is crazy. They. They did appraise the woman's husband for allowing the system to work. Had he told his wife, that would have been. She would have been removed from the jury. Reached at home, the woman said she wasn't aware of the threat till afterwards. Afterwards, she said, it's a scary situation. She also said, I'm glad I was the alternate juror, and I had no decision on the verdict, so if it's still out there, please don't kill me. Wasn't me. They said that this threat attacks the very fabric of our jury system. The prosecutor said, if that takes place, confidence in our jury system goes right down the tubes. Yeah, obviously they said that they can't remember any similar threats during a criminal proceeding at the Bergen County Courthouse in the past two decades. Wow. They said they wouldn't name any suspects, but privately they're investigating whether Planker was involved.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Obviously, he denies any involvement. Clearly, sentencing comes around here, this guy's gonna love doing this. He says, you, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison. Subject to an 85% parole disqualifier and five years parole supervision in accordance with the no Early Release Act. On count that's count one on counts two, four, five and six, he sentenced him to five years of imprisonment concurrent to each other and concurrent to the other sentence. On count three, he sentenced him to five years of imprisonment consecutive to the sentence. Opposed, imposed five more on top of that. So he's in for a long fucking time. 2003, he appeals, they confirm the convictions, but they remand him for resentencing on a non no Early Release act sentence on count one. So there's a legal problem there. Yeah, he sentenced, so he's resentenced to a term of life in prison imprisonment with 30 year parole eligibility and five years after that. So he's not gonna now for 35 years at least over the next few appeals. There's a lot of them. He filed his first state petition for post conviction relief 2004, amended it in 2007, 2008, and then again in 2008. He was represented by counsel while filing a supporting brief. And in 2008 they denied his post confession conviction relief 2008, December more appealing. God damn Public defender's office enters an appearance on his behalf. And this is the appeal to the last appeal. Essentially he's saying he was denied his sixth amendment right to self representation. Ineffective assistance of trial, appellate and PCR counsel, cumulative error. That's what he says. So all together, together here he said that, all of that. So he also wants to supplement the record, expand the record filed by him. He asked for an order not compelling the state to disclose whether the juvenile witness, Nicholas Ranieri was on juvenile probation at the time he provided his statements to police. Because he's saying that could make him, you know, if they say, hey, we're going to put you in jail if you don't tell us what you wanted, what we wanted to hear because you're on probation, we can revoke it. They're saying that could have been whatever. But be honest here, tip of the iceberg. It's ridiculous. So he also contends that he was denied his sixth amendment right to self representation. He said ineffective assistance of counsel. I'm a shitty lawyer, apparently. So he said that. He said that they erred by failing to object to an introduction of evidence of other crimes and other bad acts, by failing to confront witnesses against him, by failing to, to object to the denial of a public trial, by failing to insist on his presence of all stages of the trial, and by Failing to object to an impaired juror and by failing to insist on his right to self representation. So all of that, also that they didn't let him call the Gallaghers because they said there's, you know, they could have given him an alibi. He said, those are my alibi people. The court said, at best, the Gallagher's testimony does nothing more than suggest the defendant did not bury the victim when he told the police he had performed. Given the balance of evidence bearing on his guilt, which we now allow, we will now describe, there's no reasonable probability that the testimony would have affected the result of the trial.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. It would affect his timeline. That's it. He also said there was a juror compromise because of a threat transmitted to the juror's husband. The prosecutor indicated that the husband had not said anything to the wife about the threat, and the juror did not deliberate on the case. So they were like, there's no prejudice at all. Yeah. Then in 2009, he sues Dana Cott.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. He sues everybody. He's bored in jail.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sued Dana.

[James Petregallo]

Sued Dana. I guess from the record it says from the court docs here sued his baby's mama. The initial judge did not terminate his appellant, his parental rights, although he denied visitation while he's in prison. So you still have parental rights, but she doesn't have to drag that kid to state prison to come see you. So. So he wants pictures of his kid. He wants shit like that. It's an appeal for denial of parenting time by several orders of the family court. He is incarcerated, serving 30 to life.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

You know what the fuck the respondent, meaning Dana, or the child actually is. The respondent has filed no brief with us. She did oppose the application at the trial division. The child's mother made her desire quite clear when she said in her filing that. I request the court uphold its previous rulings. I request that the plaintiff be denied any contact of any kind, letters, phone calls, visits, progress reports and pictures. I request the court advise the plaintiff to desist in his attempts to contact me on a personal level. I request the court deny his request for counsel, special advocate, or guardian ad litem for my son and for his request for further proceedings. God, he had a boy. That kid's fuck. Oh, I hope that kid turns out okay. I request that the court honor my son's wishes and continue to protect his best interests by maintaining the no contact ruling. So she fears a negative impact on her son if he has any contact with Kevin. And I agree with her. They said there's nothing in the record to support the thesis that visitation in any sense is in the best interest of the child. The court says basically not going to help the kid to bring him to prison. Fuck off. 2010. Wayne is still appealing the conviction. Dad is still appealing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, gross.

[James Petregallo]

They're in prison at the same time he's appealing. He's been appealing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God dang.

[James Petregallo]

He does appeals. This is an appeal of a denial of parole in January 2010. He had been denied parole six times up to that point. Good job everybody. And became eligible for consideration in January 2010. At that time, the hearing officer referred the matter to a two member board panel. I don't know how you. What's the tiebreaker there? Who conducted a hearing which included an interview with Wayne and a review of his parole file. Then they denied his parole and established a 30 month wait for his next hearing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

30 months?

[James Petregallo]

It's two and a half years.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You're gonna wait now? Not every year now we're going two and a half years. They said that was just based on a number of factors including his present incarceration for a multiple multi crime conviction, his criminal record escalating seriousness of his crime, failure on prior probation, you know, being a disgusting.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Being an actual piece of shit fucking.

[James Petregallo]

Monster that people would have nightmares about living in their closets. Wow. The panel cited his lack of insight into his criminal behavior saying appellant is still seizing on new concepts to explain what happened. The seeming depth of behavior on the street While in his 30s, 30s and antisocial pathology involved give greater weight to his unsuccessful search.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's not trying to fix it.

[James Petregallo]

Not trying to fix it. More work needs to be done to place the prospect of crime beyond his narcissistic antisocial bent. So they did consider that while in jail he was infraction free. Participated in programs including programs specific to behavior. He had average to above average institutional reports. But they said doesn't matter. He's just floating through.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Basically he's unhealthy.

[James Petregallo]

So yeah, he's appealing all of that and everything. So he's denied there. It's gonna be a couple more years. 2015 is where it gets real entertaining as if it hasn't been already. Kevin sues the state. Fantastic for prison conditions. A 57 page complaint.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's mad that prison sucks.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. That I had to read all of and pick out the parts that matter. So mostly concerning the conditions of his confinement in adseg, which is the administrative segregation unit here. First he complains prisoners in ADSEG are not given access to cleaning supplies upon their arrival.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I would really like some fucking fabuloso in here.

[James Petregallo]

Something.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Where can I get some Spick and Span?

[James Petregallo]

Get me some Windex. I need to clean this bitch up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

What is happening? They're faced with dirty cells. When moving to Adam, Saturdays are designated cleaning days for ADSEG prisoners. They're provided with a broom, mop and a mop that sits in dirty water and a toilet brush that sits in a bucket of water used by the entire tier of 33 cells.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Gross.

[James Petregallo]

Let's wipe everyone's shit all over your toilet with one brush. One brush. I mean, that's one of those things. Prisons are real expensive. Toilet brushes are not. They're not expensive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know. You're brushing a toilet. Who gives a shit?

[James Petregallo]

Well, get five for 33. You know, just make it easier. Just easier and quicker.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, you need six at a time.

[James Petregallo]

I'm not even talking about for conditions. Just make it quicker. It just seems inefficient to have one toilet brush for 33 people. The plaintiff also alleges that there's no hot water in the cells, no cleaning rags. Bleach or. You're not giving prisoners bleach.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That shit's flammable.

[James Petregallo]

It's flammable. They can throw it on each other. They can fucking spray people's face, poison each other. There's so much bad things you can do with bleach. No bleach. You don't get bleach, cleaning rags or other cleaning products provided to inmates. They're not even sold in the commissary. Moreover, without access to hot or warm water, he can't rinse soap from his hands and body when he washes. Cold water doesn't come off. No, it doesn't. It stays right on your hands. Freezes solid on there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's like oil.

[James Petregallo]

That's exactly right.

[Jimmy Wisman]

When you warm it up, it makes warm.

[James Petregallo]

Then it does. But when to it comes cold, it's stuck. He also alleges that ADSEC inmates are allowed to shower for only 10 minutes every three days. There's no place to hang towels and clothes or to put shampoo except on the dirty, wet floor. He complains the shower gate cannot be blocked by prisoners, so showering inmates may be exposed to female officers. He's Randy Woodfield again. Nurses and other prison employees walking past the area. He complains that an inmate must wear their clothes while showering for private privacy and their clothes cannot be dried.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

There's also no Place to hang wet clothes, towels, wash rags in the cell, causing the smell of mildew from wet fabrics in the prison.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, because they'll see my dick, so I have to have clothes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Cover up. I don't want. God forbid somebody sees me. They're also an ad seg, not permitted to order laundry bags or detergent from commissary. So they're unable to do laundry unless they have a laundry bag from gen pop. These laundry bags usually tear and need to be sewn often. But ad seg inmates are not allowed to have separate sewing kits. Further, because there's no hot water or wash bucket, nad seg prisoners cannot wash their clothing in their cells. And he says that he suffered from rashes, athlete's foot and jock itch. Oh, no, you poor guy. Not jock itch.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Locker room problems.

[James Petregallo]

Flexible mirrors are not permitted in adseg. So he alleges that he's cut himself badly while shaving and irritated eyes from debris, lashes and bugs being in his eyes without ever being able to remove ever. Bugs go in his eyes. And if he can't see in a mirror, he can't get anything out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's so many in there.

[James Petregallo]

Are you out of your mind?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I can't shave without a mirror.

[James Petregallo]

So in the old west, everybody just had shit in their eyes. They never just. They just went on their horse and.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Went, I'm blind, bleeding to death.

[James Petregallo]

Take me where I need to be. Yeah. Wow.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is a bloodbath.

[James Petregallo]

That is crazy. He also says that beard trimmers are not permitted and alleges that inmates must use disposable range razors once every five days in the shower without a mirror, within the allotted 10 minutes per shower.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Get to work.

[James Petregallo]

That's like military shit there. Yeah. The razors are allegedly made for one time use, but are changed out only once a month. So that's why you're getting caught, Mirror or not. The razors have become clogged with hair and rust and are stored in a small cabinet that's never cleaned rust. He further alleges the razors are placed in their designated slots by officers who do not wear gloves and handle prisoners dirty underwear. So you're getting that guy shit on my razor. I would wear gloves if I was handling prisoners razors. I can't believe they're not wearing for myself. He also alleges that he's had facial and neck rashes from the use of these razors. But not using razors also causes rashes from beard growth because he cannot wash his face with warm Water between showers. In addition, he alleges disparate treatment because, quote, non European print prisoners can order creams that remove facial and head hair. But those creams cause burns and irritation when used by Europeans.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Yes. The marines had a military has policy for. I think they just got rid of it like a month ago. But since this Nixon put it in the 70s that like black troops at the time, they have to shave and they have to keep real shave. A good part of the black population has a condition that literally their whole entire neck will blow up with infection and fucking ingrown hairs. It just doesn't work. So they were letting Marines have certain length beards for a long time just to keep from having to shave constantly and irritating their shit. So this guy's saying they're allowed these creams, but I can't use these creams because they don't work for me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's just Nair, right?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know what either way he's talking about mix your own cream. I don't know what to tell you. It's not available commercially. Whose fault is that?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know, man. Don't kill people.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe you don't kill your fucking girlfriend for no reason. Your pregnant girlfriend, you scumbag. Prisoners in ADSEG are permitted one haircut per month, but are not allowed to shower after the haircut. He says that his bedding gets contaminated with hairs from being unable to shower after a haircut, causing irritations, rashes, raw spots from scratching, discomfort and lack of getting hair trimmings.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm itchy from hair trimmings from hair.

[James Petregallo]

It gets all over me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh my God.

[James Petregallo]

He next complains that during strip searches he has to remove his dirty socks and underwear, place his hands in his buttocks to spread them. Then, without being able to wash his hands with hot water, trace his fingers along the inside of his mouth and gum line.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do that person. I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

He alleges that lunch is often served immediately after he returns from his cell to his cell from morning yard when a strip search is performed and he's unable to wash his hands with hot water. Before.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I just opened my ass. I can't eat that.

[James Petregallo]

I got shit all over me. He also alleges that he's not allowed to bring a pillow into adseg and that special pillows in ADSEG are rare. Consequently, he suffers from neck, back and shoulder pain from a lack of pillow and has difficulty sleeping.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And I got a rash.

[James Petregallo]

You're in prison, not the Waldorf. What do you Want. I mean, prison should be livable, but you're talking about prison inconveniences. If he was saying, the guards come in and rape me with their batons, I'd go. That's a literal. But this is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He has some shaving issues.

[James Petregallo]

This is why you don't want to go to prison, because it's uncomfortable and it sucks. So. He also says that lack of a pillow hinders his ability to read, write, and exercise as well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I need a pillow.

[James Petregallo]

He also says the bunks have a metal lip to keep the mattresses in place. And this metal lip causes him pain and severe cramps when he sits on his bunk for more than a few seconds.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right. It probably cuts off circulation.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Different way. As a result, he says there's no place in his cell to sit and write legal documents or letters to loved ones. He allegedly experiences welts and bruises from sitting on his bunk, which inhibits his free speech and court access. Wow. He further complains he cannot order spoons, forks, bowls, or cups and add seg, forcing him to eat with his hands, which he cannot wash with warm water after they've been in his ass.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just.

[James Petregallo]

We know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I just sucked my ass, you guys. I can't eat that.

[James Petregallo]

I gotta eat this. He also alleges that he's only allowed to order two toothbrushes per month, and these toothbrushes are meant for a single use. The toothbrushes are allegedly delivered damaged from having other items stacked on top of them. The brushes become splayed and hurt plaintiff's gums when brushing. He says he suffered permanent bumps and scars on his gums in his mouth. He also alleges he can't auto a watch from the commissary While he's an ad seg because he's limited to $15 in purchases per month without a watch. He complains that he cannot perform rituals at specific times for his religion.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No. What's his religion?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, we'll get into it. Don't worry about that. He also contends he has a constitutional right to know what time it is. I never heard that. Listen, the Constitution's there. We can all read it. There's 20 something amendments. Do any of them say you're right to know what time it is? I've never heard of that before. That is definitely a new one in this show. And we've done a lot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is 619th episode, the right to Punctual Arrival.

[James Petregallo]

Never heard of this one before. He also says that he's not permitted to buy nail clippers. And must use clippers provided during showers. He complains the clippers are damaged and dirty and it's difficult to use them in the shower. Slippery. He also says he's reluctant to use them and gets ingrown nails. He also complains about the price of commissary items. Things are going up, man.

[Jimmy Wisman]

In this economy.

[James Petregallo]

He alleges that he's allowed $15 a month for commissary. Commissary, minus $10 for 10% for fines, leaving him with 1350 to spend for certain items he deems essential. The prison provides monthly bags of pen and paper, deodorant and toothpaste. But he alleges that he needs Sensodyne toothpaste.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Sensitive teeth, which costs $7.23. He also has dandruff and needs head and shoulder shave shampoo, which caused. He shouldn't kill people. If he's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I need name brand shit, you guys.

[James Petregallo]

I have similar stuff. That's why I don't kill anybody. There's a reason I like my comforts.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I like to know what time it.

[James Petregallo]

Is, which costs $7.69. And Neutrogena soap.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What he wants Neutrogena.

[James Petregallo]

Fuck it. He needs. Yeah. Back in. All those Kerry Russell commercials back then really turned him on to it. He was like, listen, I gotta get this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I need that liquid gold.

[James Petregallo]

Her fair skin is gorgeous. It's just beautiful. Which costs just over $9 for three bars. Thus, he can only order one of these items per month. A bath towel is $5, shower shoes are $2.57, and shaving cream is $4.58 per month. Dry skin lotion, lip balm, conditioner, cotton swabs, toothbrushes, washcloths are not included in the essential items package provided by the prison. He says it would take several months to stock up on these items, not to mention writing paper, security pens, envelopes, and postage stamps. Therefore, he's forced to choose between toiletries and writing to loved ones.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's not fair.

[James Petregallo]

Additionally, he alleges there's no protection from excessive weather and ad seg. He said cool off showers and ice during heat waves were eliminated in 2011 for no apparent reason. The heat doesn't work. Broken windows and open exhaust fans allow cold air, rain and snow to come inside the building. In the yard, there's no protection from the sun. And he alleges that he's not permitted to order sunblock or shade himself with a hat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I have a constitutional right to the.

[James Petregallo]

Barometer to know what time I want to know the barometer. I want to know the humidity level forecast. And I'd like a hat.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I've got a constitutional right to the seven day forecast.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Actually it's the ten day. I have a right to. The Supreme Court has updated that. He also alleges he can't wear rain gear if it's raining. He has no means to dry his sneakers and clothes. And he also said there's an infestation of mice, birds and insects that have caused him to suffer allergies, asthma, bug bites and and sleeplessness. Also the smell of mouse urine and feces, which is never cleaned. The mice also crawl up the bunks.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's either that or these air clippings.

[James Petregallo]

One of the two. He's so itchy. He next alleges the toilet in his cell is impossible to clean and had urine and feces all over it from prior inmates. When he was moved to the cell. He says that he would not use the toilet until he could. He would only use the toilet when he could no longer hold his urethra. To use that toilet, he has to sit on a dirty steel shelf with his penis rubbing against the metal lip that causes cuts and scrapes on his genitals.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How jagged is this?

[James Petregallo]

I don't think it's that jagged. I think he's out of his mind. He also alleges it's impossible to urinate in the toilet without getting urine all over the metal around the hole because the wall above the toilet shelf prevents him from leaning directly over the hole. So the metal constantly smell like years and years of built up urine from numbers of prisoners. And. And the sink is used as a urinal so it smells. The water flushes only on one side, so fecal matter is smeared on the back of the toilet where it's never fully clean. And there's a constant stench of rotting fecal matter and stale urine. That's just what I assume jail smelled like. He says the sheets and blankets are torn and fail to cover his entire bunk. He receives less food than gen pop soup, muffins and donuts aren't served in Adsec. I want my donuts.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I want my soup.

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck is going on? He also said metal, rugged, jagged, rusty things. I'm trying to find. Okay. He said the water in the showers is so hot that it burns.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh no, it's too hot.

[James Petregallo]

No, it's too hot. Okay, Goldilocks, what do you want?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Here, this one's just right. What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

On one occasion he burned his hand from contact with A copper pipe leading to the shower head.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why are you touching the pipe?

[James Petregallo]

Stop doing. He alleges that he had a permanent scar where no hair grows from this burn. He complained also regarding the water temperature and was told it was his fault due to his many grievances filed. He said they told him wouldn't be so hot if you wouldn't keep complaining.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Stop bitching.

[James Petregallo]

He also complains the water pressure in his cell fluctuates from gushes to trickles and his water never turns off. So there's rust, mold and mildew on the walls, floors and bed. And the air and ventilation in his unit do not work properly. So it becomes becomes too hot and difficult to breathe and sleep. He says there's no room in his cell to exercise. The cell is four and a half feet wide with the bunk taking up half the space on one side and a shelf on the opposite wall taking another foot of space. He alleges that in January 2013 he tried to do push ups in his cell and banged his head on the shelf, knocking himself unconscious and causing a cut in his head.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That is a vigorous.

[James Petregallo]

How vigorously were you going up on that one?

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's an aggressive, aggressive one. This is an aggressive fucking push up.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, shit. So he got half a push up in. He says that he has a permanent scar on his head and a disfigured finger. His body has reacted to over a year and a half of not being able to move around safely. Now he experiences pain from trying to move around or stand and spend up to 72 hours in one position. Then there's a whole complaint urine sample thing. He came up with a dirty piss test. He had THC in his system. So he was smoking weed in there and he said that there was not enough piss for them to. It's a whole big story. But he had to wait two hours and wasn't allowed to pee for another two hours. That's the problem here. He also complains about his diet. He says that he is lactose intolerant and does not consume meat or any animal derived foods due to his belief as a, quote, organic. Odeon.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

Well, Odeon we know about that is. That's white prison religion. Oh, that's white supremacist prison bullshit is what that is. Yeah, those are the only people that are into that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So he's a vegan of that.

[James Petregallo]

A vegan lunatic. He says that the prison has approved him for a vegetarian diet, but not a vegan diet. He complains that the vegetarian trays contain fewer nutrients and calories than the regular diet. And the vegetarian diet contains a lot of milk and cheese, which he cannot consume, assume due to his lactose.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What do you want in the wrong oil?

[James Petregallo]

He also suffers a nut allergy. He complains that the quality of the food being served is inferior. Salads taste like pesticides. Fruits are often old, dried out or rotten. Vegetables are cooked so much that they lose any nutritional value. And he says. He complains that he receives less protein nutrients and calories than other prisoners not on a restricted diet. He also complains that his dietary restrictions and religious beliefs are disregarded by the prison. He further alleges that he's being deprived of drinking water. Water in his sink is discolored and has a bad odor, so he cannot drink it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, it's piss.

[James Petregallo]

It's piss water. You pissed in there. You said it's a urinal. You use it for. He can only order six bottles of water at one time. He said, too. He next complains that meal runners handle food trays without wearing gloves or hair nets. Those are prisoner trustees. The meal runners are also not checked for medical clearance like other food workers or cooks. And they're not trained to wash their hands yet. You want like a restaurant quality person that's going to be not in prison, I would assume. And he refers refrains from eating his meals when they're served by the runners. He also complains that there is a disparity in access to religious foods because there are kosher and halal foods available on commissary and through food packages for Jewish and Muslim prisoners. But there are no 100% whole organic foods available for me. Okay. He also says there's a great disparity in the quality of the food offered in the officers dining room to which they serve the prisoners.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Free people get to eat better than us.

[James Petregallo]

Weird. Super weird people that are here for work. Yeah. It's probably part of their pay package. I don't think they're paid very well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They go home to wherever the fuck they want, man.

[James Petregallo]

He said it's the same food service used for both, but their food's better.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He next alleges that the prisoners are often sanctioned with loss of recreation privileges for disciplinary action reactions. And he said that's not fair. He also says because he's lactose intolerant, the only way he can maintain healthy levels of vitamin D is through exposure to sunlight and consumption of mushrooms.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He wants mushroom. You know, he needs a specific mushroom.

[James Petregallo]

You're not getting fucking mushrooms.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I need vitamin D. Shrooms no, you're.

[James Petregallo]

Not getting any morels in here. Fuck off. He says that consumption of mushrooms, however his they get a nice portobello and makes me eats like a steak. You know what I mean? His cells do not provide open windows for fresh air and sunlight and he must remain charge free for one year. One year to order mushrooms. He also complains that most inmates have darker skin and can tolerate the sunlight in the yard. But I have fair and sensitive skin, which deprives him of equal recreation, fresh air, sunlight and vitamin D, the poor me. Shit, that's wild. That's wild. He also says that an ad seg the yard there has urine and feces in the corner of everywhere because the inmates relieve themselves outside when they can't get to the bathroom.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

The stench causes him to decline yard recreation. And he said yard recreation could occur more frequently than once every five days if the amount of yard time is reduced from two and a half hours to one hour each time and you still get five hours. So he's an organic Odeon. He also alleges he's often forced to choose between attending yard or religious services because Odin. Odinist services are typically scheduled during yard times. Other times he's scheduled to work or has medical passes during his yard time. Yard time often falls on Saturdays, which is the only day that he can clean his cell. So he's forced to choose between yard time and having access to cleaning supplies. He also said that the religious services for Odinist were scheduled during lunch and yard times and that he was forced to choose between attending his religious services or going to lunch in the yard. They said the Odinist services, which are scheduled on Tuesdays, were canceled many times and not rescheduled because the person who oversees the Odinist services will take Tuesdays off when a holiday falls on Monday. He's really into it, guys. He also requested Odinism, but not more than Memorial Day. Yeah, yeah. He also repeatedly requested head chaplain Imam Saluki to change the service for the Odeon ritual from Tuesday to Wednesday, according to but has been told to either suck it up and stop thinking the prison revolves around his white religion or to become a Muslim and stop being a non believer. It's all crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's all dumb.

[James Petregallo]

What are you doing? He also alleges that he also requested equal access to the grass area where other religious services are held outdoors. But the Odinist services occur on the concrete before the yule holiday in 2012, quote unquote, just as Yule holiday. When Planiff first arrived in Adseg, he Requested a yule tray for his high feast and the weekly two boxes of juice given to Odinists. But his request was denied. Okay. He further alleges all this Odinist shit. He says that he is not allowed to have certain items utilized in Odinist rituals.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Like what?

[James Petregallo]

A troth ring, Thor's hand hammer.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're in prison, you can't have a hammer.

[James Petregallo]

Runes. Runes?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Little rocks, herbs, spices, rune cloth, other altar cloth, fresh tree, twigs, mushrooms, sea salt, candles, weirds, W Y R D s. Web materials. And a plan to plant the three wing garden says that. Wow, I don't even know what to do here. He's. This is fucking ridiculous.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He wants so much shit.

[James Petregallo]

He wants everything. So he also says, he alleges that it's against his sincerely held beliefs to submit to a higher power. So he's rejected.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

No. He's rejected the rehab stuff, AA and shit that goes on in there. And they said they've been denied. He's been denied contact visitation unless he attends a. A 12 step program that involves admitting submitting to a higher power. So he says they're not letting him exercise his religion. He also claims he's a white man surrounded by non whites who commonly express hatred toward whites. He's being forced to live in a cell with hate filled non whites. Unquote. Unquote. Also, he complains that the prisoner money was used to rent daily movies or set up a Netflix account, but the new movies are rarely shown. He said less than 15% of movies were played with for inmates. And he alleges that less than 30 educational videos were shown from July 2011, June 2011 to July 2013.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Tired of Mrs. Doubtfire?

[James Petregallo]

My Netflix account, I'm not getting. He's literally. He's complaining about fucking Netflix in prison. He also said that he has a wart or pox infestation all over his body. Dizziness, lightheadedness, temporary blindness in one eye, chest pains, migraines, muscle spasms, allergies, rashes, athletes, footbed sores, irritating and bleeding gums, scarred and blistering areas in the mouth, scratchy and oily eyes, arthritic cramps in hand and right foot, excessive weight gain and loss, hunger pangs, back pain, potential concussion, disformed finger that keeps getting stuck open, spasm, scrapes from the toilet on his penis, infected burn and cut, severe depression, insect bites, ingrown toenails, ingrown hairs, indigestion, heartburn, acid reflux, asthma, sunburn, arthritic pain, muscle spasms and other issues.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's getting old.

[James Petregallo]

The judge tells him, fuck off, idiot. Stop killing. Killing people.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're aging. I'm sorry.

[James Petregallo]

Then he files 114 page. Oh, my God.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We don't have time for that.

[James Petregallo]

No, we don't. Claiming that on behalf of other prisoners practicing organic asatru and former prisoners practicing asatru, he says, which is a modern pagan religion that reconstructs and reimagines ancient polytheism of Northern Europe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just multi God shit.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. By the way, Wayne is out and free.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Stop it.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, he's free. Be careful. Everyone who lives in Newton.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Where?

[James Petregallo]

Newton, New Jersey.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

I'm not gonna give his address out because you know where it is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It has to.

[James Petregallo]

I got it. It's Newton, New Jersey. Yeah, it's. It's. So be careful, Wayne. He's 73 years old and he's thought of as a tier two moderate risk. I don't know about that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's moderate.

[James Petregallo]

That seems moderate. So there you go. Everybody there is Garfield, New Jersey. All that shit's denied. They tell him to fuck off and keep on keeping on. So Kevin's in jail. Everything there. Hope you enjoyed that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's so sensitive.

[James Petregallo]

He's so sensitive. His skin is very sensitive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

For a murderer, he's a sensitive little bitch.

[James Petregallo]

He really likes like the sensitive skin. Laundry detergent.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's the no tears Johnson and Johnson.

[James Petregallo]

Christ. If you enjoyed that story, tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you're on and get. Give us five stars. It helps so fucking much. So do that. Thank you for doing that, everybody. If you haven't done it, do it. It takes 30 seconds. It helps the show out a lot. Head over to shutupandgivemerder.com we have tickets for sale for live shows. All the merch too. Tickets available right now for Philly, D.C. and Seattle. So get those right now. Those are at the end of the year. Jump in there because they're going fast. They're almost gone. A lot of the other ones are sold out. So hang out with us. Shut up and givememurder.com patreon.com where you get all of the bonus material. $5 a month or more gets you whole huge catalog of back episodes of bonus shit you've never heard before. Immediately upon subscription, you get them. And you get two new ones every other week. One crime and sports. One small town murder. This week for crime and sports, you're going to get more amusement park disasters. It's been a while. We need to do that again. It's fun. Then for small town murder it is the Prisoner Dating Game. Everybody, you know what that's all about. Prisoner Dating Game time. Buckle up. It's happening. Everybody sign up. We can't wait. That is patreon.com crimeinsports and you get all three shows ad goddamn free. We can't give you any more than that. So we to thank you subscribe that thanks us. And now we would like to thank you. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the best fucking people in the world. Hit me with them right now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The executive producers are. Alison Deutsch. The. Thank you so much, Allison. So thoughtful. You're an angel. Alexander Kazak's mom. And happy birthday. Happy birthday. Roast Beefy Weefy has a birthday. Happy birthday. Cat Meowmer said it.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, well, Kitty meows.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We all get. We all get our news from Cat Face Meow. Mers and wow. That's how I got this news. Drinking life. Michael Caspar, Casper, perhaps Tamala. It's gotta be Tamala. Tamela Tamila Vaughn. Is it Tamale? What is it?

[James Petregallo]

Tamala? Tamala. Who knows?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Dr. Drea.

[James Petregallo]

Tamilala. Dr. Dre.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Dr. Drea. It's a gal.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, okay.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Andre, I think is her name. Dr. Dre is also a doctor.

[James Petregallo]

Dr. Dreats.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Thank you all so much. You're amazing. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill. Happy Hour checking in in South Haven, Mississippi. That's as South Haven as a get. Jesus good Christ.

[James Petregallo]

Not a Haven.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hope you get out. Bo, Me, Shane Dennis, Heather Martin, Pam Blackledge. K with no last name. Ken Taylor, Tina Renner, Emily Montgomery and Amy Strawn. Cat Mc, Stephanie Wilkie, Mike Connor, Jessica Asharte, Asia E. Charte, Colin. Jacques. Oh, it's Jacques. What am I doing? Sarah Yock. So Sophie. Jeremy Sanderson, Chelsea Sabulski, Sam J. Lisa Leslie. Not her. James. Jason Siegel. Probably not him either. K and N. Sarah Ringer. What is it?

[James Petregallo]

Why not? Why can't it be Jimmy? I'd love again Self esteem. It was on the floor.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It was an email address that was as if that. Well, that person's probably been named James Jason Ziegle his whole life. Whatever. Michael Blex Rude. Be Lex Rude. I think T. Stubbs. Lisa Hobbs. Sarah Ringer. I said that Casey. C, A, C, C, A, Y, C, E. That's Casey, right? Or is it Case? I don't know. They're the judge. Their parents. C.J. sanderson, Carl Wilkins. Kim with no last name. Rebecca Sotello. Assault Satello. So tello. She, Shannon Tilly, Colleen Picky Nick Picky Nick Ryan with no last name. Bex with no last name. Talon Gibson, Andrea Talbot, Andrew Albert, Albert Perez, Michelle Fournier, Hannah Doyle Morgz Carleon Carleon Deanna Duncan, Dina Duncan Halen halen Roberts, Gary McMullen, Melissa Stroud, cucks of America, Whatever the fuck. Mintu with no last name Katie Schertzinger, Josh with no last name William Nossaman, Betty with no last name Serena Stockdale Gigi with no last name Sigourney Queefer of Mr. Mr.

[James Petregallo]

So much.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Calvin Gilbert what a horrific dumb name. BJ Roper, Beach Norton Bree Smoot, Sarah with no last name. Dericko Boone, Jeff Bruner, Tammy Williams Jordan with no last name. Krista Kisner, Sarah Debagis Wild Girl Melissa Meg Amy Merrill, Kristen Danage, Mimi Mullins Brooke with no last name. Shannon Lip, Tamron Williams Kevin Allen Bryan with no last name. Karen Brooks Preble Tracy with no last name. Ben with no last name. Nikki G. Justin Everts, Barbara Moore, Allison Temple, Ivy Lewis, Alex Alexis Martin, Laura Kieft. Cleft. It's kieft, I think. Kieft. Elena Eaton, Lucas Richards, Mackenzie Sullivan. Mackenzie Hannah Hicks, Bebo Babo, Mora, Jessica Cummins, Chase Schwartzman. Stevie with no last name. Not that one. Steve. He needs a hundred dollars cash. Stella Colaris, Jeff Oswald, Patty with no last name. Macy Cisneros, Angie Angie Johnson, Toliver Machin Machin. Pedicure goddess. Meredith Moore, Kristen Le Lieber, Alicia Bontemps, Jackie Boudrovich, Jim Timothy. Timothy Mackey, Jackie Rewald, Anthony with no last name. Joseph Aguilar, Jacob Farron, Erica Miles Milzner. Jesus Jana Cation, Jarrett Byers. Honeybees. Shelby with no last name. Julie Macusa, Amanda Rickson, Verna Garten. Garten. Carol Robinson, Danielle Kincaid, Trent Krueger, J. James Sleeper, Max Braun. AI Child. I don't. I hate that more than anything. Larry with no last name. Jamie Lee. Probably not the one. Danielle Savioli. What is it? I fucking hate no Jamie. Jamie Lee or the writer for the fucking soccer show on Apple.

[James Petregallo]

That one. The soccer show on Apple.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow. Ted Lasso.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, there you go. It's like Soccer show.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Danielle. Danielle Savioli, Tricia Turner, Nikki Salad. Soloic soloage. Solowage. Timo St. Clair, Braden Dyer, Gina O. Julia Tennyson, Todd Binkley Jaron with no last name. Melissa Caballero, Glitter Bird. Scott C. Brent Bizick. Effing Ninja. Ashley with no last name. S and L. The letters. Sarah Robert Robinson. Cnc. The letters. Kim Bretchen. Bill List. Travis Olds, Dean Pool, Megan D. Terra with no last name. Ashton Jones Gray, Jack72, Brendan Para KT. The letters. Andrew Larson, Nicole Kelleher, Taddeus Thaddeus Camp, Carol Hynek, Ray Renee Swearengen. Is that right? Dave P. I hope related any way possible. Dave P. Sharon Becker, Lauren Handrahan, Andrew Stiffel, Stifle, Savannah Rogers, Carl Morrell, CD what? Egansley Eigensley, Allison Guerra, Karen Perry. She got two patrons. Thank you. Karen. Liz.

[James Petregallo]

One name. A fucking slap shot reference.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What was that?

[James Petregallo]

Slap shot?

[Jimmy Wisman]

What did I do? Handrahan.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Was that. Was that the lady that eats?

[James Petregallo]

That was the guy that they were all sucks pussy. Yeah, yeah. Sucks pussy. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's a lesbian.

[James Petregallo]

I know, I know. Yeah, I know. I know. Or no, he was the bastard guy they were all afraid of. Ah, right.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right. Hand. Or hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Liz, our number one fan in San Diego. Evidently Todd with no last name. Daryl Paxton. Karen Willis, Trisha Bassett, Brooke Hodgson, Jocelyn with no last name. Stephen Dixon, Laura Barker, Dina Werling, Nancy. Nancy Eklund. Selena with no last name. Jealousy Edwards, Otis Spunkmire. Fantastic. Layla with no last name. Dave Sandry, Denise Ellis, Jan with no last name. Holly with no last name. Logan with no last name. Jacob Schoen, Brittany Weston, Nene with no last name. Someone with two young boys. Give them back. Cc, Cynthia B. Harvey Wellman Williams. Jenny with no last name. Brianna Barney, Ashton Brown, Steve Weaver, Janelle Deb, Jason Schultz, Robbie Marcus, Elizabeth P. Molly Hightart, Brooks Friedlander. No Freed Land, Emily Webb, Andy Thomas, Alyssa with no last name. Paul Nix, Ayomata Lindsay Pojar, Audrey Schwartz. Off road Emo Honey Coven, Andrew Hurley, Jordan Sp, Doreen Beloit. Belois. Haley Bright, Tristan Mastro T. Cash, Steven. Nope. Stephanie. Stephanie. Stephanie Morgan, Alex Weber, Clayton Reeds, Planet Tyler. Natalie Young, Jerome Hulam. Mike in Milan. Is that right? Josh Hayes, Kayla Allen, Brie Routley Rutley. Probably Paul Taylor, Jill Fleming, Caitlin Baton, Jason o'. Connor. Natalie with no last name. Jaz C. Molly with no last name. Jessica Bro. Michelle Harris. Kim. No, kid Galahad. Oh. Because there was Lord. Was it? Who was Galahad? Was it Lord King?

[James Petregallo]

Lord Knight.

[Jimmy Wisman]

King Galahad. What was Sir Galahad, Sir.

[James Petregallo]

There you go.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All right, moving forward. I don't know where I pulled that out, nor where that reference is from. Johnny Berciago. Berciaga. Amanda Brown. Jesus. Jesus Lopez. I'm leaving it. Bloomer Pudding. Jenny Coffer, Matthew Sillette, Jackie Bjornstadt. Leslie Bo Boatwright, Colleen Larson. KB with no last name. Crystal Haas, Justin Miller, Herb. Sure man. Daphne. Daphne Bishop. Was that the guy's name that was the Long island killer. Sure man. Was that it? Sure man.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Hewerman. Rex Heuerman.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's got an S and a C in front of that. Good. Daphne Bishop, Annabelle Netter Thomas and Michael Michelle Chevalier. Charles Locke would know that is his last name. Dana Carapondo, Laura Ann, Jacob Hoover, Britney Hill, Diane Taylor, Rodney Elwood and Sharon Schrader. And obviously all of our patrons. You guys are the best. Thank you.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you everybody so much. You unbelievably awesome bastards. We love you. We appreciate everything you do for us. Keep coming back and seeing us time after time. You want to follow us and find us? Head over to shutupandgivemerder.com drop down menu take you anywhere you want to go. Keep coming back and seeing us and until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure.