Covering Your Murder Tracks - Yutan, Nebraska

Summary

Small Town Murder

Episode: "Covering Your Murder Tracks – Yutan, Nebraska"

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmy Whisman

Date: August 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, James and Jimmy set their sights on Yutan, Nebraska, a tiny town with a dark secret. They take listeners through a twisting, bizarre, and ultimately tragic murder case involving a beloved local teacher, Sandy Schnabel, and her seemingly mild-mannered husband, Mark Schnabel. Through their trademark blend of in-depth research and sharp, irreverent humor, the hosts dissect not only the crime but the oddities and quirks of small-town life that serve as haunting (and hilarious) backdrop.

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Welcome and Setting the Scene

• The "Murder Train" leaves the station with the hosts riffing on how it's somehow been a year since they've covered Nebraska.
• James confesses, “I completely spaced Nebraska for the last year… over 100 episodes, we haven’t done enough. It makes no sense.” (04:38)
• Yutan is introduced as a small, farming-centric town (“a great place to grow”), only 1,300 people, big on high school sports, and famous for its Chieftains mascot.
• The hosts poke fun at small-town quirks:
  • The annual "Utan Days" with such events as the state-sanctioned "kitty pedal pull," a three-hour Dylan Bloom concert, and a cornhole tournament. (10:13–12:13)
  • Jimmy: "You're going to get Nebraska drunk. Cornholes." (12:01)
• Memorable tangent about the “child-friendly” school environment and odd small-town reviews: “They took the stripper poles out a couple weeks ago and made it more child friendly.” (08:44, James)

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Victim & Family Background

• Profile of Sandra “Sandy” K. Chader (later Schnabel), born 1959 in Central City, Nebraska, raised in Hordeville.
• Noted childhood tragedy: her older sister died as an infant, affecting the family dynamic. (13:22)
• Sandy portrayed as a “replacement child” and likely overprotected.
• She graduates high school in 1977, becomes a teacher, meets Mark Schnabel (landscape designer), marries in 1986, and has three children: Trevor, Courtney, Sarah, between 1989–1995.
• Their family seems picturesque: Sandy teaches and coaches volleyball with immense success (state championship in 1992, an overall 173–35 record). (17:59)
  • “She had to have extracted every drop of volleyball talent that that school has to offer.” (17:45, James)
• The couple is active in their community and church. Mark is described as a “Mr. Mom” who helps at home due to Sandy’s busy schedule. His mother Etheline describes him as “very loving and caring.” (20:43)

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Trouble Behind the Scenes

• Mark’s landscaping business becomes financially troubled.
• James observes: “How much business is there in a town of 1300 for landscaping and corn country? I'm not sure.” (22:15)
• Despite appearances, family life is not perfect, and the finances weigh on them.

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The Crime – The Night of the Fire

Key Timeline

• May 21, 1999: Last day of school. Sandy finishes up at work; their three children are left with a 13-year-old babysitter. (23:36)
• Late Night (Approx. 1:30 a.m., May 22): Two young men (Jason McFadden & Scott Mum), returning from a rodeo, spot a fire on the Schnabel property and alert Mark. They discover a burning van crashed against a shed, and—most shockingly—a body underneath. Mark is described as “hysterical.” (25:49)
• Firefighters recover the badly burned body (later identified as Sandy), wedged under the minivan, requiring dental records for identification. (27:49)
• The van had barreled through a cornfield, over two barbed wire fences, and into the shed. Investigators find two sets of tire tracks—fueling theories of a chase or accident. (33:48)

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Investigation & Suspicion

• Mark claims to police that he and Sandy argued the night before (supposedly about buying a new van); she left, and he went to bed. He maintains he was asleep until being awakened by the firemen. (34:46)
• Forensic review uncovers no plausible mechanical cause for the van fire, and Sandy’s body placement is inconsistent with an accident.
• The children’s videotaped interviews are critical:
  • Youngest daughter Sarah (age 3) describes seeing her mother with a bloody nose and “asleep” in the brown recliner in the living room, notes her father moving the chair outside in the dark, and mopping up with a bucket and rag. (51:03, 52:47)
  • Son Trevor (age 10) recounts a "painful scream" from his mother, seeing her unresponsive in the chair, and hearing a “thud” the night of the murder. (49:16–49:54)
• The now-missing brown recliner is identified in recent photos but not found in the house during searches. (60:02)

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Forensic Evidence & Breakthroughs

• Home searches yield:
  • Blood spatter throughout the living room, walls, and ceiling.
  • 300+ discrete blood droplets, “lit up like a Christmas tree” with luminol. (53:47)
  • Blood found on Mark's ATV (John Deere Gator) and utility truck.
  • Evidence of attempted cleanup with bleach-soaked rags found miles away. (62:20)
• The missing brown recliner is recovered in the woods, saturated in Sandy’s blood. (62:14)
• Tire track analysis reveals overlapping tracks: the ATV used to transport the body to stage the accident, not a vehicle chase. (60:28)
• Sandy’s autopsy shows a fractured skull, broken ribs, and extensive burns—the ultimate cause of death is burning. The injuries align with a physical beating, not a car accident. (46:21)

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The Arrest & Community Reaction

• The funeral draws over 1,000 mourners (almost the entire town), with Mark sobbing in the front row holding his daughter Sarah—not knowing she’s key to his arrest. (62:54)
• Immediately after the funeral, as mourners begin to leave, Mark is arrested at Sandy's graveside for first-degree murder. (64:36)
  • “He probably dropped his rose in and then they just grabbed his wrist as he did it." (64:39, James)
  • The town is stunned; no one suspected Mark: “I just watched a man get cuffed.” (65:49, Superintendent Kevin Johnson)
• The hosts marvel at the poetic irony—Mark, comforted by the very child whose statement helped put him in prison: "He’s just snuggling his snitch right there." (63:32, Jimmy)
• Town debate erupts about whether the arrest should’ve taken place at the funeral.

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The Legal Case

Theory of the Crime

• Prosecutors believe Mark brutally beat Sandy with a blunt object during a violent argument, cleaned up blood, staged the accident (using the ATV to move her body), set the fire, and tried to feign surprise. (67:11)
• The clincher? Mark had taken out a $200,000 life insurance policy on Sandy six months prior. (61:20)

Pre-Trial & Sentencing

• Accident reconstruction experts dismantle Mark's “car accident” story.
  • “No way Sandy’s body could have ended up under the left rear tire of the van if she were driving.” (70:56)
• Mark’s lawyer floats comedy-worthy defenses (“What if she crashed to get a new van?”)—none convince the court. (71:13)
• Mark breaks down at a pretrial hearing, collapses on a spiral staircase—“He just goes limp... he’s losing control.” (72:19, Investigator)
• Mark accepts a plea deal for second-degree murder, pleads "no contest," and is sentenced to life in prison.

Sentencing Blunder & Parole Drama

• Judge fails to specify “life without parole,” making Mark eligible for parole in as few as 10 years; attempts to correct the error are unsuccessful. (75:04–75:58)
• First eligible for parole in 2016.

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Aftermath and Legacy

• Mark’s repeated parole attempts are vehemently opposed by Sandy’s children and her former students; at every hearing, her volleyball team shows up in their old jackets—a bizarre and moving display of solidarity and outrage. (78:57)
• The children remain with Sandy’s sister, who expands her house to accommodate them.
• Mark repeatedly expresses regret but blames “case managers” for not enrolling in relevant rehabilitation programs.

Highlights from Parole Hearings

• Trevor: “I still remember the sounds. I remember the way she screamed. I remember the sound of whatever he hit her with. And I remember the fire.” (77:14)
• Board votes are always unanimous: 5–0 “denied.”
• As of 2024, Mark remains behind bars; next parole hearing is set for November 2025.

Hosts’ Reflections:

• James: “While his kids are in the house... He’s a bad guy. No, he’s capable of anything.”
• On Nebraska: “We can’t go away from Nebraska for another year. It’s crazy there.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On living in Yutan:
  • “They had so much corn to figure out something to do with it. So there it is. If it’s got the word corn in it, they did it.” (12:14, James)
• On the funeral and arrest:
  • “He’s just snuggling his snitch right there.” (63:32, Jimmy)
  • “He probably dropped his rose in and then they just grabbed his wrist as he did it.” (64:39, James)
• On staging the murder:
  • “That’s Nebraska drunk. Cornholes.” (12:04, Jimmy)
  • "I've never seen you hit something, shoot out through the windshield and then end up behind the rear tire. Doesn’t make sense." (61:20, James)
• On the children’s role in solving the crime:
  • "She's got to be the youngest snitch in America at that point, right?" (63:51, James)
• On the parole anxiety:
  • Trevor: “I don’t feel safe in my life if he’s released.” (77:14)
  • Sarah: “I lost my mom, my home, my family, my childhood. That night. I’m asking you, pleading with you, to give me a chance to live my life.” (79:24)

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Recommended Listening Segments

• Town & Event Descriptions / Nebraska Humor: 04:11–12:13
• Victim and Family Background: 12:53–19:52
• Discovery of the Murder & Early Investigation: 24:42–36:35
• Forensic/Child Testimony Bombshell: 46:21–53:04
• Break in the Case (Brown Recliner, Blood Evidence): 60:02–62:30
• Funeral & Arrest: 62:52–65:43
• Legal Proceeding Highlights: 67:11–75:04
• Parole Battles & Kids’ Statements: 76:56–79:26

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Tone and Style

James and Jimmy bring their signature blend of gallows humor and genuine empathy. They poke fun at small-town oddities, call out dark ironies (the “snuggling snitch” moment), but take particular care when discussing the trauma endured by the victim’s children and the deep scars left on a tight-knit community.

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Conclusion

“Covering Your Murder Tracks – Yutan, Nebraska” delivers a compelling and darkly comic exploration of a gruesome crime in an unlikely setting. Beneath the hosts’ trademark banter lies a serious critique of both familial violence and small-town justice, punctuated by unforgettable quotes and moments of surprising pathos. The story is as tragic as it is bizarre, and the episode unpacks every facet with wit, care, and plenty of Nebraska jokes.

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For more info, live show tickets, or a deep-dive into the research, visit shutupandgivememurder.com.

Transcript

[James Petragallo]

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[James Petragallo]

Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Choo choo.

[James Petragallo]

Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[James Petragallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today. All aboard the murder train pulling away from the station. We got crazy stuff today as usual, as you know from Express. I mean last week we had a woman prepare a whole meal out of a guy. So you know Express is going to be crazy as always. Here we go. First of all, before we get started, definitely head over to shutupandgivememurder.com tickets for live shows, also merchandise, everything from T shirts to bath mats. But also you definitely, definitely want to get yourself into a live show. Our live shows are just a long comedy show with some murder involved. It's really fun stuff. Gonna tell you a wild story, give you the pictures and everything. There are a lot of them are sold out right now. We released our holds for San Diego so there's a few left for San Diego for people. A lot of people are looking for those. And then we have Seattle, D.C. and Philly are all available for purchase at this moment. But they're close to selling out. So get them now if you want to be and do that. Shutupandgivemerder.com also listen to crime and sports, listen to your stupid opinions. Our other two shows that are damn funny and as well get yourself some Patreon.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Do yourself a favor. You deserve it. You deserve it. $5 a month is not a lot. So anybody $5 a month or above. Patreon.com crimeinsports you're gonna get a lot. First of all, hundreds of back episodes that you've never heard before. Immediately upon subscription, you're gonna get to binge. Then you're gonna get new ones every other week. One cr, one small town murder. And you get it all for this?

[Jimmy Wissman]

You sure do.

[James Petragallo]

Low, low price this week, which you're gonna get. For crime and sports. We're gonna do it's kind of a disaster potpourri. We're gonna do some amusement park disasters, some industrial disasters. Kind of meld those two together. That's a lot of fun. Then for small town murder, it's back again, everybody. The prisoner dating game is here. Here it is. You know how that works here. I'm gonna sit Jimmy down, line him up with four bachelors, four bachelorettes. They're very, very available. That's one thing. They have two things in common. They're very available and they're all incarcerated violent felons. So Jimmy's gonna pick one of each based on nothing but their own descriptions. And then he gets to find out what a terrible mistake he's made While we figure out what they've done and everything like that. It's so much fun. Not only that, you get all three shows, Crime and sports, you, stupid opinions and small town murder. All ad free on patreon Unwell.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petragallo]

It's the best deal you're gonna get. And you get a shout out at the end of the show too. End of the regular show, no time on the express. So there you go. Do it up. Patreon.com crimeinsports that said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. Here we go. Let's get this going. Clear the lungs. Here we are. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay.

[James Petragallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do it. We're going to Nebraska this week. And I have to say one thing. I've credited myself, I don't give myself a lot of credit, but I've kept on top of when we do states and to do them again in six months, you know what I mean? I've had this weird rotation going on in my head for a long time, for years that we've been doing this show and I completely spaced Nebraska for the last year.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

Completely. I don't know how it happened. I don't understand it, but we have not done Nebraska in a year.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, well, the whole State kind of flies under the radar.

[James Petragallo]

It's like over 100 episodes. We haven't done enough. It makes no sense.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This is Nebraska's like Kansas too. You know what I mean?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, that's a good point. Nebraska is definitely. But we've done Kansas twice since then. Yeah, well, that's why we haven't forgotten, you know, Mississippi or Louisiana or Idaho. Why should we forget that? We did Australia last week, for Christ's sake. I don't know how Nebraska flew under the radar. We are going to Utah, Nebraska. Y, U, T, A, N. I never heard of that one before, but here we are.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Like the coffee, but with a T. Kinda.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, I guess so. This is in eastern Nebraska. It is about 25 minutes to Omaha. About 45 minutes to the dreaded Lincoln, Nebraska, and then two and a half hours to our last Nebraska episode, which was Ord, Nebraska episode 519. This is 6:22. I'm still. That's wild. Show me your belly was the name of that one. And it was real weird. I remember it being very weird. Saunders county, this is an area code 402. Only 1304 people here. Pretty damn. Pretty damn small town. Yeah. Especially to be 25 minutes from Omaha, which is a pretty bustling place. I mean, it's not a metropolitan, but it's a, you know, it's a moving place there. Median household income here above the national average, $76,094, usually about 69,000. And median home cost here, $306,900. So just below the national average. So income high, housing low. That's good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's good.

[James Petragallo]

That's not bad. It's got a nickname and a motto, the motto we've heard before. And it's not live, work and play. It's quote, a great place to grow. And that's because they do a lot of farming here, too. So they think it's clever.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But also, when you live, work and play, James, you grow.

[James Petragallo]

You grow. That's right. You need to live, work and play to grow. That's the.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's like sunshine to plants.

[James Petragallo]

The other nickname is home of the chieftains because that is the name of their high school mascot.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a high school football team.

[James Petragallo]

And that's all they care about here because they've actually. The Chieftains, they're big into that little bit of history here. Utan was originally called clear creek and it was platted in 1876 when they extended a railroad out here, obviously. And then it was renamed in 1884 after a guy Named, I guess Itan I E T A N who was an Indian chief in the area. They named the town after him. Now in 1913, I'm going to show you a picture of this. There was a horrible outbreak of tornadoes in the area. And it was on Easter Sunday and it tore this place apart. I mean, fucked it up. It had 350 people. This is the church afterwards.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Whoa.

[James Petragallo]

That is not a building scene.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. I've never seen something. It's just collapse like that. It's not like collapse. Collapse from the bottom up.

[James Petragallo]

And it's all tipped over. It's like this leaning. It's messed up, man. That.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's crazy.

[James Petragallo]

What kind of wind would it take to cause that? Like that's pretty insane. In 2017, the town had severe flooding from heavy rains. So this place is just. It's damned or something like.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's just.

[James Petragallo]

They don't. And I don't mean with a dam, I mean by a deity. Yeah. It is being very much into high school sports culture, which is. It's such a small town. How many kids could be even in the high school? 120 tops. Like 150, maybe 1300 people total.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's creepy.

[James Petragallo]

How many of those people are, you know, 14 to 18 probably.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's very weird.

[James Petragallo]

It's very weird. Here's some reviews of the town. Five stars. Utan's school system is great and has a very child friendly environment. The school system is a child friendly environment. They took the stripper poles out a couple weeks ago and made it more child friendly. You should have seen the schools before. Wild.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They put a bunch of covers on the sockets.

[James Petragallo]

They took the bars out too. I don't mean on the windows. I mean they had in case the kids needed a drink or two. But they took those out. They took all the stripper poles out. They made it way different. Now there are a bunch of latches.

[Jimmy Wissman]

On the cabinets where all the chemicals are held.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. You know, just little things. Utah doesn't have many stores, But Omaha is 15 minutes away. Utan has some of the highest test scores in the state. I'm happy I chose my child to live here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Chose my child.

[James Petragallo]

Chose my child to live here. Very weird place to put it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Weird way to put that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Your sentence structure is bizarre.

[James Petragallo]

It's so weird especially to follow a sentence about high test scores with that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Right.

[James Petragallo]

You didn't go to school here then, I don't think. Here's one star. Trashy place, trashy people.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Now we're onto it. Now I like it. Here we go. Here we go. Some of the most immature people I've ever met. No work ethic, no consistency. Lots of drugs. Yeah, that's the town all right. Things to do in this town here, not much, let me tell you. 1300, you know, person town in the middle of rural Nebraska. Not a lot going on. But There is the U10 days, 2024, 2025. I have the 2024 schedule here, here. And so we'll find out what happened at the U10 days parade. I guess. There is a barnyard pedal pole and a. I don't know what this means. A state sanctioned kitty pedal pole. State sanctioned? I don't know. Do they need a sanctioning body for kids to pull?

[Jimmy Wissman]

They got a committee. Which end are you on of the rope? Is the Barnard animal pulling you or are you pulling it?

[James Petragallo]

You're asking me? I'm not positive of the logistics of this whole setup, but it sounds insane.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Which location of the cart before or after the horse?

[James Petragallo]

That's what I'm wondering. There's an adult pull to follow. That's good. Oh, there is a beer garden. There's beer pong in the beer garden. Yeah, of course. And there is music and Karaoke from 9pm to 2am this party, this town rages man, into the night.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Five hours of Karaoke.

[James Petragallo]

There's people that are farmers here. They're going to be up in two hours. This is nuts.

[Jimmy Wissman]

My God.

[James Petragallo]

Music and karaoke by Dynamic Air. That's the band who's going to do karaoke, I guess. Then there's of course the fireworks show. There's a pancake breakfast. A St. John's show and shine car show. Gotta have that live music by Dylan Bloom. Sure, he plays for three hours.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fucking shit. Dylan, take a break.

[James Petragallo]

9:00Pm to 12:00am what are you kidding me? What are you, the E Street Band? What the fuck are you doing doing three hour sets?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Three hours?

[James Petragallo]

What's wrong with you? How much music could you have? $5 cover charge for that. He is going to kill himself up there, so you might want to see it. And then from 12am to 2am on Saturday they have a DJ, so just that whole thing. And of course on Sunday the big cornhole tournament comes over in the beer garden.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So you're going to get Nebraska drunk. Cornholes.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think that's where it was invented.

[James Petragallo]

I'm going to assume anything was with corn was invented in the Nebraska Iowa belt here somewhere. Yes, I assume.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I think it was Nebraska.

[James Petragallo]

They had so much Corn to figure out something to do with it. So there it is. If it's got the word corn in it, they did it. There's also carnival rides and shit like that. So that said, let us talk about some murder. Let's do this. Okay. Let's talk about a lady first here. Her name is Sandra K. Chater. C H A D E R Later on she'll have a different name when she gets married, but that's how she's born. She goes by Sandy. So Sandy is born February 18, 1959 here. She's born in Central City, Nebraska, which I've never heard of either. I never know that one either.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Look that one up for next time.

[James Petragallo]

She was raised in Hordeville. H O R D ville. Wow. Now, doing some research here, I figured out that she had a sister that died in 1958, the year before Sandy was born. And her sister was only six months old when she died. So I'm not sure. Some kind of childhood illness or. Could have been sids, it could have been anything. Kid could have fell into a thresher. We have no idea. But either way, dead sister.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He still got trampled by the high school marching band.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Who knows? Could have been like a naked gun joke. People just ba ba ba da, ba da. Right over his corpse. Right over her little tiny corpse. Which is terrible, but it happened like 70 years ago, so it's funny now. Anyway, in all seriousness, so that's coming up in a family that just had like the death of the child that was right before you, then they had you. So would you feel like a replacement child?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

And they're probably very protective of her too.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Right. You don't realize how much you know and how much your body knows from that time period. Granted, you. You aren't alive alive. I mean you're alive, but you don't.

[James Petragallo]

You know, not mentally. Where.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

You're not. Sentient acuity. Yeah. No, you're. You're just, you're just existing. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But your body does things and creates things and ways to adapt based on those experiences. And she probably did feel, I would think, a lot of weird feelings at least.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Overprotectiveness of why are you, you know. Who knows though? I don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wishing she could scream. Stop it.

[James Petragallo]

So she graduates high school in 1977 in. In Hordeville. There. Now she is going to go to school. She wants to be a teacher or later on and that's what she'll end up doing here. She's going to find a man here. In the 80s, in the mid-80s, named Mark Schnabel. S, C, H, N, A B, E, L. Mark Schnabel. And they get married in 1986. So there we go. She is. What is she, like, 27? She gets married to Mark. Mark's two years older than her. So, you know, same general age here. He's a landscape designer, and he worked for a bunch of different companies around the area. He worked for a Lenoa Nursery in Omaha and all this type of shit. So they move around, but then they start to settle in. About 1987, Sandy gets a job in the Utah school district. So this is where they're going to settle in and everything like that. She starts teaching and coaching volleyball for the utan school district. And she is a badass coach. We'll talk about here. Yeah, she's really good. Yeah. Now they have three kids, and so this is turning out. This looks like a John Cougar Mellencamp song.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You know, going great.

[James Petragallo]

Little pink houses and white picket fences and jobs and kids and, you know, all that aren't so good. Yeah. Sucking down chili dogs and all that shit. So 1989, they have a son named Trevor. 1992, a daughter named Courtney. In 1995, a daughter named Sarah. So they spread them out every three years. They even seem like they're planning. They're good at planning. Exactly. They seem like they're very good. They're doing everything. Like you'd tell somebody, you go, well, don't get married when you're like 20. Wait till you're closer to 30. If you meet somebody, great. And then wait a couple years to have kids. Wait, enjoy each other for a few years, and then don't have the kids right on top of each other, because that's really hard. So give it some. They took everybody's advice and just did it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Have one in diapers at a time.

[James Petragallo]

Exactly. Once one learns the shitter, you can pump another one out, no problem.

[Jimmy Wissman]

There it is.

[James Petragallo]

Now, Sandy, like we said, is a teacher and a volleyball coach, one of her students said. Sandy's a teacher at Utah High School. She taught business classes and typing and some photography classes. So I was placed in Sandy's class to learn how to type. She had a way of being able to connect with her students and the student athletes. She always wanted her students to succeed. So that's one of her former students at the time here. And she is, like, a really, really good coach. Though from what I gather here, they ended up winning in 92. They end up winning A championship. A state championship, which is pretty impressive. I mean, I don't know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a 1300 to win the state.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's the state class C1. So, I mean, it's probably smaller schools, but this is a very small school. I mean, it's 50 people. I can't imagine how many of those. Because you take 1300 people and then you say, okay, how many of them are 14 to 18? And then you go, okay, now how many of them are good at volleyball? You like, this can't be that many. There just can't be very small. She had to have extracted every drop of volleyball talent that that school has to offer. Like, no, nothing hidden. She. In her 12 years, her record here is 173 and 35. That's her coaching record.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not bad.

[James Petragallo]

Which is terrific. Yeah, that's like, you know, Don Shula in the 80s.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Out of 200 games, she won 173 of them.

[James Petragallo]

That's not bad. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

Goddamn good. About 110 games. Won the 92 state championship, and they went to seven state tournaments as well. Pretty badass. One of her players said, when I was a freshman, I was kind of the class clown. I would laugh and, you know, maybe not focus as much as I should. She pulled me aside and she's like, you have some intangibles that the other kids don't have, and I need you to dig deep, because if you do that, the sky's the limit for you. And I remember thinking, I trust her. I believe her. She just had a gift, you know, she just had a gift. That's nice. And a fellow teacher said Sandy was a tough coach and a demanding coach and teacher who treated everyone fairly and earned respect because of it. So she's like, not a, you know, a coddling type of teacher. She's. She'll take you aside, kick your ass a little bit, but in a way that makes you go, oh, man. Damn. Yeah, she's right.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Thank God for her.

[James Petragallo]

That's tough. I mean, that's a. That's a. Every teacher should strive for that, but most of them can't hit that. You know, that. It's either too soft or too hard.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But hopefully all of them are trying to do good. But, I mean, that is the goal, isn't it? To make a fucking difference in people's lives and show them how things are done.

[James Petragallo]

But, I mean, it's half knowledge and half just being able to have the kids not just think you're full of shit and just dismiss you because As a kid, you just dismiss what adults say unless there's somebody that you really get a vibe on that you believe in. She's also deeply involved in church. She's a soloist in the choir at the Mead Covenant Church and was active in the youth programs as well. Because she's good with kids, obviously. Yeah, she gets praised solo.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Look at that.

[James Petragallo]

Oh yeah, that's what I mean. She's busting out so she can sing. She knows her volleyball. She's a good teacher. Things are going well here. Now, from the outside of the whole thing, it looks like Mark is just as devoted to the family too. I mean, just looking in, see the two of them, she's got a lot going on with the school and the sports. He picks up the slack at home, you know, any slack that comes up. He's. Everybody calls him like a Mr. Mom type. You know, volleyball stuff is in the evenings. So someone's got to take care of her kids too. So it's just really kind of a nice little family life they have going on here. It looks like he's the supportive husband and everything's great. Mark's mother, Etheline, which sounds like a fuel additive. Ethylene.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Who would do that?

[James Petragallo]

Ethylene. Isn't that a fuel additive? Is that a corn based fuel additive? Is Nebraska that crazy for corn?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ethylene. Ethylene.

[James Petragallo]

Either that or it's like a Little Richard song, isn't it?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Ethylene. It's a drink that you make at home with cough syrup.

[James Petragallo]

This will cure the kids. I made up a batch of ethylene. Don't worry about it. The kids will have those fevers down by morning. Some country method.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's the lean that your grandma Ethel made.

[James Petragallo]

Ethylene. With a picture of an old lady on the bottle, smiling, clearly fucked up, just happy as shit. Little round glasses and shit, all granny looking. So this is Mark's mom, Etheline. She's from South Dakota. Their family's from South Dakota. Originally, she said he took care of the kids more because of his wife's schedule at school. He's a very loving and caring father. Now there's some problems though, that they have that everybody goes through ebbs and flows in their lives, their lives and their businesses. And Mark's business isn't going very well. He started his own landscaping business, landscaping design business when they moved here. And it's just not really bringing in the dough. I don't know how much business there is in a town of 1300 people for landscaping and corn country. I'M not sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, yeah, I don't know if you farm all day or you're doing any sort of agriculture work. Last thing you want to do is trim a fucking tree on your own property.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, but is there. It feels like everything that's not like, you know, a little yard. Yeah, it's already got farm. They just put crops on it. There's no reason need to landscape it. Just plant something bucket. So I don't know what's going on. It's true. Farming is its own landscaping. And some of the neighbors said, you know, his landscape business was struggling. He wasn't doing that great with the business essentially. So Friday, May 21, 1999. Let's go there. This is the last day of school before summer vacation.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Oh yeah. You can hear the Alice Cooper playing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

1999.

[James Petragallo]

1999, yeah.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Hell yeah. When I graduated high school, man, this is.

[James Petragallo]

You were jacked on this day.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, I can feel it.

[James Petragallo]

You were jacked. So Sandy's at school, you know, saying goodbye to everybody and doing the normal sun things or sun things, summer things. I looked at in front of me as I saw the. There's a babysitter who was babysitting the daughters and son. And I read that Red Sun. So there's a 13 year old who's babysitting the three children. So there's a child babysitting. I love. We've sat that now but for a long time. Like someone would hit like 11 and we were like, you're responsible enough to take care of other lives now. And we just give them to them and say watch three small children, other child.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, don't start a fire.

[James Petragallo]

Gotta go, gotta go now. Bye.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I finger my wife while watching a late movie.

[James Petragallo]

We're gonna try to like drink a bottle of wine so we can actually have sex with each other tonight. You know what I mean? So when we get back, just clear out quick, have the kids asleep and.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We'Ll be ready to go get them asleep so that I can.

[James Petragallo]

This is my one chance to this woman. This is my chance. So 13 year old babysitting the three kids that afternoon while Sandy is finishing up all of the clearing out her office, you know, just clear. Not gonna be there for two months. So that happens that day. All that's the last day. Now that evening there's. It's an interesting evening here because by 1:30am so it's now Saturday, May 22, by 1:30am there's a guy knocking on the door at 1:30am there'S two guys, one named Jason McFadden, the other is Scott Mum and they're 19 year olds who are on their way back from a rodeo.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Sure.

[James Petragallo]

Which as one does. And they do late night shit here. This. In this town they have. Their parade goes until 2am yeah, people are at 1:30 in the morning coming back from a rodeo. This place is wild, man. You guys are unhinged over here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And they're like it middle of the country. So they're on it on a time zone that's mountain time. Right.

[James Petragallo]

So central anyway.

[Jimmy Wissman]

At minimum.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's central time I think because Iowa, I think is where breaks off because I was eastern time, I think in Omaha's western. Or not western. Fucking. Or am I wrong? The central. Oh, could be wrong though. I'm not sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Central, Mountain West. Wait, how many fucking.

[James Petragallo]

Four.

[Jimmy Wissman]

How many do we have?

[James Petragallo]

Four.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We have four.

[James Petragallo]

Four central, Mountain Pacific on the west and eastern, obviously. So they're knocking on the door, banging on the door at 1:30 in the morning. And this guy says, I arrived at the location at 1:30am Even though there was heavy smoke, I could see the van that was parked up against the burning structure and what appeared to be a body lying on the ground.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh boy.

[James Petragallo]

You didn't expect this when you went to a rodeo. You thought if you saw a body it would be, you know, gored by a bull that would be dressed like an asshole. Dress like an ass wipe. And honestly, you'd cheer it probably you thought he'd be run through by a horn. Not this. So if the fire went much longer, it was probably going to destroy the body beyond recognition. I didn't want the heat to destroy that body more than it already was. That's why we. And then other fire departments came. Apparently the people that were knocking on the door are also volunteer firemen. So they were calling fire departments too. But they're knocking on the door going, your shit's on fire. Not your house, the shed. There's the car and a large shed, like a garage almost, but just a shed. Storage place in the back. That's what's on fire. So Mark comes to the door bleary eyed and greets these two gentlemen and is told that there's a fire on his property. And you know, he starts freaking out. Now McFadden, the one guy who stopped, he's a student at the University of Nebraska, Omaha, said from the gravel road we noticed the smoke and fire. I noticed there weren't emergency vehicles around. So they're like, oh shit, we're gonna have to call somebody. They said they knocked on the door. Mark answered. It appeared to have been asleep. Then he called for help from the house. He said he came out and we told him there was a car on fire behind that shed. And he said, that's my wife's car, and that's my wife. Oh, that's when we saw the body. He just kind of collapsed to his knees. They said that he was. They had to stop him because he was running. Mark was running at the van towards the flame. So they were grabbing him and pulling him back. So you can't get that close to it. It could blow up. There's a lot of danger.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Don't touch anything.

[James Petragallo]

But the one guy said he was pretty hysterical. By this time, he was losing it. So they were. Yeah. The home's about 75 yards from the storage shed, which ended up burning to the ground. So 75 yards is a good distance.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, he's got some. He's got some. Some yard.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, there's a good. Good amount of property here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nice.

[James Petragallo]

One of the firefighters there said, we extinguished that fire scene. I got on the phone and called for investigators to come out to the fire scene to assist me. When I arrived on the scene, everything seemed to be under control and stabilized at that point. I could see the body under the van. It was. Consider. It was considerable damage to the body. We could not make a positive identification. The body that was damaged, and you couldn't make that happen. So they needed dental records to figure out this was Sandy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It was that bad.

[James Petragallo]

It was that bad. She was, like, kind of wedged under the. The minivan.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Which was up against the shed, which everything was burning. So the scene is crazy. How the hell does that happen?

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's a bizarre placement.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's really weird. So they didn't understand it too. They said there's nothing about the vehicle. There's no damaged fuel lines or anything else. It's a 1992 Caravan, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yep. The square ones.

[James Petragallo]

That's what. That's what's on fire. Which is exactly what she would drive at that time. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about acorns.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Early Acorns Early.

[James Petragallo]

Absolutely. Remember when you're a kid and there's something you really want and you're saving for it, you're just like. You got, like a piggy bank. You're stuffing things all together. You're trying to do that when you're a kid, you know what I mean? Remember that? Remember like you wanted, like the PlayStation when it came out or something at first. And that teaches you though. It teaches you about money. You put it aside and then you end up getting what you want. It's pretty cool. We want to do that for our kids. We should all be doing that. Turn your kids into savers. Acorns early makes it easy to teach kids healthy money habits that will stick with them for life. I mean, we've all asked ourselves, why didn't they teach us this in school? Why don't we know how to deal with money? Why don't we? Why aren't we financially literate? What are we doing here? I feel that way all the time when I'm dealing with money. And that's why I want to give my kids a head start on their money goals with Acorns Early. My parents never talked about money. Your parents accept that we don't have any. I never heard a drop.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I never talked about what you don't have.

[James Petragallo]

No. We had to figure all that financial stuff out on our own and we've made a lot of mistakes and that's why we want to get the kids going with Acorns Early. Piggy banks are great and cute and all, but let's be realistic here. These days there's so much more kids need to know about money. And Acorns early makes it easy to teach the kids lifelong skills. They have the smart debit card and money app that grows kids money skills as they grow up. Start with in app Chores Tracker to teach your kids the value of a dollar. Let your kids set their own saving goals and they can start building those healthy money habits early. And they can spend what they've earned with their own customizable debit card, giving them that sense of independence. Plus the spending limits and real time notifications. You can always stay in control of your kids stuff though. That's how it goes here. We love this for our kids just to give them the start on financial literacy. Because it is. It's tough. So get your kids going. Ready to teach your kids the smart way to earn, save and spend? Get your first month on us when you head to acorns early.com/small or download the Acorns early app. That's one month free when you sign up at acorns early.comsmall now back to the show. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Little bit about Ollie ollie.com o l.

[James Petragallo]

L I e.com that's right. A better dog food. I have three dogs, you have a dog, and one of my dogs is allergic to everything and has a lot of like, special dietary needs. An older dog and all this stuff. Ollie will help you out. Ollie, we can find stuff for the dog. It's specific and it's really good because if your dog could talk, they'd be like, don't put that other stuff in my bowl. Yeah, I don't want just kibble. That smells weird. It's gross. Nobody wants that. Would you eat that?

[Jimmy Wissman]

No, it's terrible.

[James Petragallo]

It's byproducts, unpronounceable preservatives, who knows what fillers. It's more of like a crime scene, you know, more of stuff you'd find at a crime scene rather than in your dog's bowl. So Ollie is here to crack the case on pet nutrition with fresh human grade meals made with the highest quality ingredients. No mystery meats, artificial junk, just real minimally processed food made in US kitchens. They have five fresh protein first recipes like beef with sweet potatoes, Turkey with blueberries. That one's awesome. Your dog's not going to have to wonder what their food is ever again because the stuff, you'll want to eat it. It looks good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You bet.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. You fill out Ollie's 30 seconds quiz here and they'll create a customized meal plan based on your puppy's weight, activity level and other things your get welcome your welcome kit for any first timers. Ollie will send out your pup's first box with two weeks worth of meals, free storage container for a mess, free serving, and a guide on how to gradually switch them over. You're gonna see benefits here. Shinier coat, easier to pick up poops. Give them one, one or two months, they're gonna be at a healthy weight. Ollie is the only fresh dog food that comes with unlimited routine so you can get your pup on track to living their healthiest, happiest life. Dogs deserve the best. That means fresh, healthy food. Head to ollie.com stm and tell them about your dog. Use the code STM to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box. So if you're not completely satisfied, you're going to get your money back. That's O l l I e.com and enter code STM to get 60% off your first box.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petragallo]

They said no damaged fuel lines that would have sparked a blaze or anything like that. But they did say they found two overlapping sets of tracks on the scene of tire tracks.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Tire tracks.

[James Petragallo]

So they were wondering did, was she. Did someone chase her and run her off the road? She hit this thing and you know, whatever they said, was this a. Yeah. Was this like a theft gone wrong? Was someone trying to rob her, steal from her? Was she running from someone who tried to, you know, whatever could have done anything to her? So they talked to Mark, obviously, because this is a mess. Mark said he was asleep when he got a knock on the door. And you know, well, they said, well, where was your wife? This is like one o' clock in the morning, you know.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Why was she out that 70ft away from her bed?

[James Petragallo]

Was she at the rodeo? We all were. I mean, it's a good rodeo. I mean, it was, it was pretty. It was funny. It was funny. I'll say it. It was gory and everything, but it was pretty funny. We all got a good laugh out of it in the end.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He was smiling the whole time, you.

[James Petragallo]

Know, what are you gonna do? I think it was a smile anyway. It was red. There was red, a lot of red. I'll just say that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Couldn't discern.

[James Petragallo]

So Mark said, I had argued with my wife the night before and she left the residence after the argument. That's what he claims. They got in a fight, by the way, the fight was, he claims, over whether to buy a new van or not. I mean, I think the 92 caravan in 99, it's time to maybe trade it in.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Seven years.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, seven years. Probably gotten a lot of beatings. The kids have shit all over it and thrown up. They were little kids. There's been, you know, chicken nuggets mashed into the carpets and seven years of.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Kids growing up in that thing. Yeah, it's time the next year, 99. Yeah, they had the blow through that. The car had two sliding doors. That was a hot shit minivan.

[James Petragallo]

That was a huge upgrade.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Both sides slid open.

[James Petragallo]

Wow, look at us now. We can more efficiently have our children fall out. Perfect. So that's what he said. He said. Now there is contradicting statements of whether the fight turned physical or not. There's statements that he said that it definitely did not turn physical that night. And then there's also statements where they claim that he said they had a physical fight that night. Not blows, but, you know, as O.J. simpson would say, some tussling, as he used to say. That's how he described murder. Well, it was just some tussling.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So that's how he's just smacking bitches.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. So he said he last saw her at 10pm he said she took off and he went to bed. That's what happened at 10pm and he said the next time he saw her was when her body was on fire underneath their minivan at 1:00am That's a.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Real, real bad day.

[James Petragallo]

That's a bad day. It's the last day of school too. Now investigators, this is from the newspaper at the time because, I mean, this is a big deal around these parts. And they are trying to figure out where she had been and what she had been doing prior to her death. That's what they're telling the press. One of the cops says, one of the homicide detectives says, we definitely need someone who was with her and knew her whereabouts. We have a lot of puzzle pieces, but it's not coming together yet. And then they say one of the other investigators tells a news reporter that the minivan had left a country road twice and run through a sprouting cornfield and two barbed wire fences before crashing into the storage shed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

Went through the cornfield and. Yeah, Taking shit out.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wild way to get home.

[James Petragallo]

You know what I mean? Yeah. You normally don't say, I'll take the cornfield. I mean, the road leads right to the driveway. But I'll just take the cornfields today. Yeah, let's do it. So they said a second set of tire tracks was found, leading to the speculation that she's been chased. And they said they did not find any evidence that Sandy's body had been dragged, though. So there was no like drag marks around the body. Like. Like the body was somewhere else and somebody dragged her minivan.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, on her own accord, they said.

[James Petragallo]

Her on her own caravan. They said her body was underneath the left rear wheel of the minivan next to the shed. And they said, we still don't know the cause of the fire. They said they did. Mark Schnabel is in the landscaping business and there's shitloads of combustible materials in the shed. So it wouldn't have taken a whole lot to start a fire in there. But still there had to be something that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, sometimes combustible materials, though, if it's like on a rag and just sitting, it can. Makes its own heat. And they can fucking erupt too.

[James Petragallo]

You never know. So, I mean, they were looking at all these combustible materials. This and a lady on the ground, which did she try to get out and fall and burn? We don't know. So there was also one of the four horses in the field, got severe Cuts from the barbed wire that the fan dragged through the field. And the horse got caught in the barbed wire because it dragged him. The course ended up being all right, though. So they said that they determined the minivan was heading east on Saunders County Road 1 when it drove. That's number one. When it drove off the roadway through a ditch at least an eighth of a mile through a cornfield.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a long way.

[James Petragallo]

It's a long way. It's a decent amount of time. It's a city block, you know what I mean? And. And through two barbed wire fences before striking the storage shed. And like we said, her body was found entangled in barbed wire underneath the car.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Which is all fucked up. The lead investigator said, we don't know if she's been chased. We don't know what happened. The guy said, quote, this is a strange story.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Very strange. She ran somehow got tangled in barbed wire and then was under a car.

[James Petragallo]

Makes no sense. They said they haven't ruled out foul play. They don't know if she was chased or what. This doesn't seem like a suicide, to be a weird way to kill yourself. I mean.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Heard of it.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it'd be original. So the chief investigator said, we have about 12 theories. We figured one of them has got to be right, which is. I don't know if that's the most professional response you can get.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I mean, we're doing our best.

[James Petragallo]

There's a bunch of shit. Something's got to be right out of all of them. We'll figure it out. So the utan School superintendent Kevin Johnson, described her as a popular teacher and an exceptional volleyball coach. He said she made a difference in a lot of lives. It's going to be hard for them, meaning the kids, to deal with this. Yeah, she's like one of the more beloved teachers in school. So over the next couple days, Mark has got some shit to do. He's got three kids with a dead mother. So not good. They said that night he was resting at home. And the newspaper said a woman who knows him said he was understandably quite upset. And the three children were staying with friends of the family that night.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Just to, you know, I guess, let him. We let him sob. Yeah, he planned the funeral and all of that. Now the funeral that comes up later on, and that's gonna happen in the school gym. There's more than 1,000 people there. There is only 1,300 people in the town. So that tells you a lot. That's who's who. The hell gets 80% return on their funeral of where they live. Yeah, that's pretty impressive.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a lot of people.

[James Petragallo]

If I got 80%, it'd be like three and a half million people coming to your funeral. That'd be pretty, pretty wild. I don't think Biggie had a funeral like that. Like, that was.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No DMX had a big Ford pickup truck driving through Yonkers. But there were a lot of empty blocks.

[James Petragallo]

There's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So the community here, the people are kind of freaked out by it. And one person here, a neighbor says the rumors were out there, they're swirling around, was there someone in utan that caused this accident? So they were looking at that. And who was that person? Who would ever have been so upset with her that they'd be trying to do this to her? There's just all kinds of theories out there. They were trying to steal her van. They were trying to rob her. So the townspeople, this is a small town and they think they have some like drooling, you know, drool dripping off the teeth. Psychopath in this town armed with barbed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wire and ripping folks open and lighting fires. That's a slobbering maniac.

[James Petragallo]

That's a maniac. Yeah. So they didn't understand it. Another neighbor said everybody would see us somewhere. Everybody would see us somewhere and say, we just can't imagine what happened to this woman. It was a mystery for everyone because people were so enthralled with her and the way she handled herself and the way she handled her family. This was the last person they expected something weird to happen to. The computer coordinator at her school said she was a great lady. She never had anything bad to say about anybody. Wouldn't say shit if she had a mouthful. Nice lady.

[Jimmy Wissman]

She's a nice lady.

[James Petragallo]

That's like from the 40s. So. Yeah, it's an old timey. He's a great guy. Wouldn't say shit if he had a mouthful. That's one of those. Yeah, it's old. What fucking idioms aren't disgusting. They're all gross.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Chicken shit and chicken salad was fun.

[James Petragallo]

That's not gross.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That's a party again.

[James Petragallo]

That's pretty gross. So this investigation, the team is the Nebraska State Patrol, the state fire marshal's office and the Saunders County Sheriff's Department. They're all investigating this.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay. Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Which. It's a lot. They said they're. Yeah. And they're. The whole thing is. Where the fuck was Sandy during that three hours?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

If Mark went to bed at 10. Shits on fire at 1.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Where did she go for three hours? His story was she left, I went to bed. That's 10 o'. Clock.

[Jimmy Wissman]

That is a long way to go. Three hours and a short time to get there.

[James Petragallo]

Fuck. Yeah. So one investigator and one investigator said I was trying to get more information about their home life and things like that. We had to explore the backgrounds of both individuals. But did she have a friend somewhere that she'd gotten real close with? Did Mark have a companion he was close with? They didn't know anything about the family, so they had to figure this all out. One fire investigator said it sounded like the van was on fire first and then the barn became involved. Just through the radiant heat. It seems like the van caught the barn on fire, not the other way around. Which would rule out his combustible landscaping chemicals and shit like that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

All that does is utilize that.

[James Petragallo]

That'll just accelerate spreading it. Yeah. They said the only idea that could be gleaned from the initial information was they thought it might have been an accidental fire in the vehicle. A 92 Caravan, you know, they'll just burst into flames at any point that happens necessarily.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah. So, yeah, Pinto.

[James Petragallo]

But the 80s and 90s were just chock full of just charred, cindered remains of small children all over the place. Goldfish and Teddy Grahams clutched in their little sippy cup hands.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It's the worst cars.

[James Petragallo]

But boom. Burst into flames, they said. Yeah. This investigator said it looked like the van had run into the barn. So there was a collision. If you have people who are ejected out of vehicles, you're talking a great deal of force, speed, a sudden stop, huge impact, lack of seatbelt use. And from what we hear, she always wore her seatbelt. Like she always wore her seatbelt. Yeah, She's a mom of three with a caravan. She's wearing a seatbelt for sure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Heard of somebody being ejected like a boomerang under the car.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're saying like maybe if she hit something first, flew out and then. And then the car kind of went past her. She. Yeah, but that's. It seems what she hit then. That's what they're saying.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You don't bounce off the garage.

[James Petragallo]

You don't accidentally shoot through the windshield. Like you don't. You're not just driving all of a sudden, you shoot through the windshield.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You, like he said, really got on the brakes.

[James Petragallo]

You got to hit a fucking brick wall at, you know, a certain speed to go through a windshield.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So who did your brakes? I need that guy, yeah.

[James Petragallo]

What the shit, man? So they finally get an autopsy done on Sandy, and they figure out she had a fractured skull, broken ribs, and bruising on her torso, but she ultimately died from burning to death.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God. Not smoking. Elation.

[James Petragallo]

Not smoking. No, no. She was under the car. There's no smoke. She was on fire. She was on fire. So she had all that other shit, which I guess could happen when you fly out of a windshield or when you fly out of a car and land. I suppose you could have some bruising, a fractured skull, and some broken ribs. That seems okay, but they're still like, how did she fly out of the car and land up behind it?

[Jimmy Wissman]

And if you're on fire and still alive, why didn't she try to get out from underneath the car?

[James Petragallo]

That's the other thing. Yeah. She had to have been possible. She had a fractured skull, so maybe she was unconscious, hopefully.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fuck.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah. When you burn to death, you'd much rather be unconscious. So they talk to the kids. All right? Finally, after, like, two days, they get to talk to the kids, and they have videotaped interviews with the kids. Now, Sarah's like three years old at this point, not even four. She's like three and a half. So she says. And I don't know. I don't know what you can take seriously of a three and a half year old.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not a lot.

[James Petragallo]

I have a nephew that's four. He tells me some wild shit that I know isn't true. You know what I mean? Like there's, you know, purple hippos in his neighborhood and shit. Like, they. They'll just say things when they're that age. You don't know what the hell they're talking about. And.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And they don't know what they're saying. My niece was three. She called Cotton candy cock and candy.

[James Petragallo]

Can I have some cock and Andy? No shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They don't know what they're saying, and they don't know why.

[James Petragallo]

They don't know anything. I once told an old man in a store, my mother was buying me cookies when I was that age. And this old man said, is your mother a Cookie Monster? And I said, no, my mommy's a pervert. Cause I must have heard that word somewhere.

[Jimmy Wissman]

For whatever reason.

[James Petragallo]

That's what came out of my mouth.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Nah, man. That bitch is a pervert.

[James Petragallo]

Mommy's a pervert. Now, if you had me in an interrogation room, that wouldn't look too good for Mommy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

But that's terrible. Mommy's going to prison.

[James Petragallo]

What the fuck yeah, she said this old man was like, oh God. And just like scurried away. So I just heard it somewhere.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Who's giving my niece cock and canned?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, who's Andy and why is his cock out? What's going on here? So Sarah, though says that they're talking to her within 48 hours. So I guess it's still pretty fresh. She said that that night. And again, a three year old, it's hard. Do the days, can they delineate days and what they are, do they all kind of run together? She said that she saw her mother with a bloody nose shortly before she was gone. A bloody nose. Now, Trevor, he had an 80 minute taped deal here and he said that he heard his parents arguing on the night of May 21st. And he's almost seven, I think Trevor is the oldest, isn't he?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, he's the oldest, so he's like 10, I believe.

[James Petragallo]

So he's like 10, yeah. At this point. So he said that he was awakened from his bedroom on the second floor by what he called a painful scream from his mother downstairs. He said he went downstairs to the living room to check it out, but his father told him to go back to bed, go back upstairs, get out of here. He said that he also saw his mother in the brown recliner that was in their living room. He said she wasn't talking or moving. And later he said he snuck back downstairs because he was curious about what happened. Yeah, what the hell, when you tell a kid don't look at that, he's got to go look at it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

He said he looked through a crack in the front door and saw his mother sitting in a chair outside with her head lying on her shoulder, slumped like you're trying to sleep on a plane. And he said she looked hurt. He said, I remember the sounds, I remember the way she screamed, I remember all. He said he remembered the fire as well. He said he heard screams and also the thud of something hitting something that night. He said that's when his dad told him to go back upstairs because he heard a thud and then the screams. So, yeah, so that looks like he woke up and his father was possibly beating his mother. And the bloody nose would then make sense at that point. And both children, the two youngest, the other, the middle child, Courtney, she saw some stuff too, but I guess she wasn't, she wasn't told to go back upstairs at any point. They were all told by their father the next day that mom died in a car accident.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

Now, Courtney said that she witnessed some of the violence as well. But she didn't see blood or anything. I guess. So Sarah again. Well, when they're interviewing her, by the way, it's a 33 minute interview. She's just like drawing with crayons. And she's being interviewed by a child psychologist. Not even the detectives are outside the room. I mean, they don't know how to talk to a fucking three year old and not traumatize them worse, you know, give it up. Come on. Listen, you want to be a witness or you want to be a suspect? We're going to fucking talk about this right now. Homicide detectives and 3 year olds. Really not good.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Get you some shells and cheese if you talk.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, what do you want, chicken nuggets? You want a happy meal? Will you spill it for a happy meal? You're gonna give up your partners and your accomplices if we get you a fucking happy meal? So they said she's got a little tiny voice. And she just said she saw her mother with a bloody nose and also asleep in the brown recliner in the living room that night. She said she remembers her mom on a recliner, blood running down her face and body pooling on the porch of her family's home. Oh, okay. Now she's asked by the psychologist, was it a big chair or a little chair? And she said, a big chair. And stretched her arms out wide. Yeah, big chair. They said, was there blood anywhere else on mommy? And she said, yeah, on her cheek. And they said, okay, who else was in the room? And she said, daddy. And she also said that her father carried the brown chair quote, outside in the dark. So how often have you been home? And your dad takes the family recliner from the living room and just carries it outside in the middle of the night? Is that normal?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Just runs it outside.

[James Petragallo]

What's going on out there?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Air this one out for the night.

[James Petragallo]

I was gonna put this. Yeah, it's just a. You know what? Just too much kid stink on it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I've been sitting in this fart I've been farting for.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, been farting in this cushion for a decade plus. Man, I gotta.

[Jimmy Wissman]

It could use some wind tonight.

[James Petragallo]

We're gonna do some outdoor fumigation here. So Sarah said she also remembers her dad with a bucket and a rag mopping up something as well. Uh, oh, that night. That is interesting. So, I mean, what is he mopping up in the middle of the night? He's moving chairs, he's mopping shit up. Things are weird. So this is two days after the death the investigators search the home now and they spotted one, spotted what appeared to be blood spatter on the wall and the ceiling. Yeah, so that turned up. So they got some blood droplets on the living room floor. They said though, when they sprayed everything with luminol, the one guy said it lit up like a Christmas tree in there. It was fucking wild.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Look at that.

[James Petragallo]

Huge. He said it lit up. There was blood everywhere. Quote, unquote, he said. They said. Also a search of the home found blood spatters on furniture, walls, the ceiling in three different rooms. Also on a utility truck, a John Deere gator outside, ATV type deal. And they said that there was clear and, you know, present cleanup effort there as well to clean up the blood spots.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Deere had it too.

[James Petragallo]

Dad had it too. And there was attempts to remove blood spots from the house as well. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to give you a better way to shop for awesome stuff at Quint's.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Quince.com, q U I N C E.com.

[James Petragallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, to go with those pants.

[James Petragallo]

I got some nice shirts. I got a cool pair of pants that I'm gonna wear on stage. I like it. Quince has the closet staples you'll want to reach for over and over. Like cozy cashmere and cotton sweaters from just $50. That's awesome. Breathable flow knit polos, comfortable lightweight pants like linen ones that Jimmy has. And somehow it works forever. You can get things that work for weekends, for work, for everything. They have it all here. The best part of this too. Everything with Quints is a half the cost of similar brands. They work directly with top artisans. They cut out the middlemen. Quince gives you luxury pieces without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics. They've taken us to the next level of fashion, getting some real good stuff. And the prices, I love them. Keep it classic and cool with long lasting staples from Quint's. Go to quince quince.com smalltownmurder for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com smalltown murder to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com smalltown murder now back to the show. This show, Small Town Murder, is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com Absolutely. You ever feel overwhelmed? How do you know all that time? It happens and it impacts your decision making is the problem. Feels like there's advice for everything. You can go online, they'll be like, oh, yeah, do a cold plunge. That'll solve everything. You know, do a screen detox. But you don't know what's going to work for you. That's the thing. You're just picking up weird stuff off the Internet and it's overload about mental health and wellness and it makes you even more freaked out. That's the problem. Using trusted resources and talking to live therapists get you personalized recommendations and help you break through all this noise.

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Yeah.

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[Jimmy Wissman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petragallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

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[James Petragallo]

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[Jimmy Wissman]

What have I done?

[James Petragallo]

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[James Petragallo]

They found over 300 spots of blood spatter all over the house. That's a lot. I mean that, that counts every droplet. So I mean it sounds like more than it is, but it's still. There's not 300, you know, blood drops in my living room, so.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No mine either.

[James Petragallo]

Now the thing is, the kids keep talking about this brown recliner.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

The cops are like, there's no fucking brown recliner here.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Not at the house at all.

[James Petragallo]

Not at all. There's no brown recliner here whatsoever.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

So they're like, we'd have got nothing. They said a thorough Search of the home, though, turned up photographs that were very recent showing a brown recliner that was sitting in the fucking living room. And now it's missing. And this was, by the way, in an area where they had a lot of blood spatter around also. That's where the chair was. So very interesting. So then they look into the overlapping tracks from the minivan and they discover the other tracks seemed to be left by Mark's atv, the gator. The gator with the blood on it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So they started to think it looked like the vehicles were deliberately positioned rather than involved in an accident. A witness later on here, one of these state experts, will say that there was no evidence to support the claim that the minivan had collided with the building or that Sandy could have been ejected from the vehicle during the collision, which was our whole thing. Yeah, I've never seen you hit something, shoot out through the windshield and then end up behind the rear tire. Doesn't make sense.

[Jimmy Wissman]

So what the happened?

[James Petragallo]

Okay, so they said the physical evidence simply didn't support an accident. There was no skid marks consistent with Sandy losing control of the vehicle. It was a straight shot. The damage patterns didn't match a high speed collision and Sandy's injuries were consistent with a beating, not a car accident. Not good. Then they found out the cherry on top. They found out that about six months earlier, Mark took a $200,000 life insurance policy out on Sandy. Oh, Mar, that's not good. Not good at all. But they still need physical evidence and they don't have it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

This isn't. I mean, this doesn't look good for.

[James Petragallo]

Mark, but it doesn't look great. But no, someone else could have done this. Who knows? Doesn't put him in it. But then the chair, the recliner, they found it. They found it miles away in the woods.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He left it in the woods.

[James Petragallo]

He just threw it in the woods. Covered in Sandy's blood, by the way.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petragallo]

It's in a farmer's field. Oh, they found that. Then in a farmer's field, they found rags with Sandy's blood and bleach on them as well.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Fucking wow.

[James Petragallo]

Now he clearly knows about fire, so, yeah, why not burn that up?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why. Why drop all this shit in somebody else's property?

[James Petragallo]

Makes no sense. So here comes the funeral. It's at the school. The United States flags at the high school and the post office were flying at half staff in honor of Sandy.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Post office at the post office.

[James Petragallo]

I mean, this is. That's. This is a big deal. Yeah, yeah. This is a big deal in the town, man. So more than 1,000 people come in. It's everybody. Mark sat in the front row holding Sarah in his lap, sobbing the whole time. 30 current and former volleyball players showed up, all wearing the red and white school colors on school T shirts and warm up uniforms. They all showed up in their old stuff.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He doesn't know what Sarah told the cops.

[James Petragallo]

No, no, no, he has no idea.

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's just snuggling his snitch, right?

[James Petragallo]

Get over here, get over here, you little snitch. Aren't you my cutest little snitch?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's snuggling the person that's putting him in jail.

[James Petragallo]

Wow, that's fucking, that's amazing. She's got to be the youngest snitch in America at that point, right?

[Jimmy Wissman]

So far I haven't heard anybody younger than three.

[James Petragallo]

And if you ask a three year old, what'd you guys do in there? She'd go, I colored. And they asked me about mommy and I said, I like mommy. She's not going to remember or care.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And he'll look like a real weirdo if he's asking her pointed questions.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, it's nuts. So he's holding her. And the main investigator here said we could have arrested him first thing Wednesday morning, but we decided to wait until after the funeral services to make his arrest. So as the service concludes, because they have the church and they go to the grave after her body is lowered into the ground at the Evangelical church cemetery near Marquette, he turns to leave and he's arrested by the cops right there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh shit.

[James Petragallo]

He probably dropped his rose in and then they just grabbed his wrist as he did it. He's arrested for first degree murder at the graveside, right. As the entire thousand person funeral party watched. As the whole town watched. They did that shit on purpose.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

This was at 3:25pm as mourners were preparing to comfort the grieving widower. Basically he's like coming to my house for casseroles. And they were like, nope, not so fast, asshole. So they said he was handcuffed and that's what happened. He was later booked on suspicion of murder. And they had to do. It was a hundred mile ride, I guess because he's brought to the Saunders county jail in Wahoo, that's where that is, in Wahoo, which is an actual town. And they said he's still wearing his funeral suit when he got there too. Not a lot of murder suspects arrested in a funeral suit. Which is pretty funny now. People were surprised no one suspected him. Really?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Really?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, One guy. This is the high school superintendent, Kevin Johnson, who was talking before about.

[Jimmy Wissman]

About how great she is.

[James Petragallo]

She great. He said, up until this morning, I thought Mark was innocent. And I still don't know. I just watched a man get cuffed.

[Jimmy Wissman]

They've got. I mean, they're not going to arrest him without.

[James Petragallo]

I don't think the public knows all the evidence at this point. Probably the pastor of the church said he was fucking pissed off that they said, what? Yeah, he said, don't do that shit there. He said the arrest could have been postponed until after the mourners could gather with family members at the church. He's like, I could have got a couple of bucks out of that. Probably a thousand people coming back to the church. You never know, somebody gonna drop something in a bucket. You had to fuck the whole thing up for me.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You really fucked me out of at least five grand. People are gonna throw fives and twenties in there.

[James Petragallo]

I had a good day coming at me, and you fucked it all up. So one of the church members said, not knowing the unknown has been the worst. That the truth will be revealed is how we've been praying. That's a weird way to put that. Mark's got an attorney and he says, my client is super innocent, man. He said, this is ridiculous. He said, my client is distraught and surprised and worried about his three children. Damn it. He didn't know whether he'd be charged with first or second degree murder. So here's what they theorize based on all the evidence. Mark beat the shit out of his wife with a blunt object and then said, oh, this is bad.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So then he staged the minivan accident at the barn. The second set of tire tracks instead of a chase, came from Mark's ATV as he transported his wife's body to stage the accident scene. He wasn't even trying to stage a chase. It just. He got lucky and they thought that's what it was for a minute.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Wow.

[James Petragallo]

It was just him moving the body. He used his atv, transported the body to the far barn area. It's a five acre farmstead, so his kids are inside sleeping. This is horrifying. He positioned her body underneath the caravan and set fire to both the vehicle and the storage jet. Why did he put her back there? That makes no sense.

[Jimmy Wissman]

I don't know.

[James Petragallo]

Then he went back to the house and waited until he got to act surprised. So they decide over the course. The prosecutor says he's going to take the weekend, figure out what charge it's going to be. And then he decides that it is first degree murder is what he decides that we're going to charge him with. Mark's attorney said, frankly, I expected it. We intend to vigorously defend the charge. We will be in court. Well, yeah, you will be for sure. He's being held on $500,000 bail at this point. The kids will remain in the custody of Sandy's sister for a minute here, and they have to decide whether they're going to be allowed to visit Mark in prison. Are they going to see Mark's family? What's the deal here?

[Jimmy Wissman]

He's not going to want to see him when he finds out what's up.

[James Petragallo]

Nah, you little bastard. Well, he's got a funny quote. They said the children are visiting with a counselor in Henderson each week. And they said they enjoy living with their aunt and uncle as well as their cousins. And they also said that the counselor recommended the children not visit their father because of the potential emotional trauma. Now, his attorney said that we're not opposing the guardianship order, but his parents, who live in South Dakota do object to the permanency of the order. They want to be able to have some custody, too. But they said Sandy's sister. They've worked to keep the children in contact with the family. They said that that family has two children themselves that are 14 and 12. And the sister also works for the Social Security administration. And they're building an addition to their home to make the kids more comfortable.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petragallo]

They're literally starting construction already to expanding their home. Two more bedrooms for these kids.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, they can sell it and buy another one, guys.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, that's. They give a shit.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah.

[James Petragallo]

So during the pre trial hearing here, Mark's defense attorney keeps trying to convince the court that Sandy's death was a tragic accident. I don't know what everyone keeps fucking talking about here. They said that she'd hit the storage shed. She was ejected. It's horrifying, you know, but an accident reconstruction specialist said that the accident was staged. He said someone other than Sandy drove the 1992 van up against the storage shed. He said that tracks made by the van in the cornfield showed no signs of swerving or skidding that would be considered with an accident and consistent. He said this was not a traffic collision. This was a controlled event. The person driving was steering to avoid hazards and driving over certain things. Said there's no way Sandy's body could have ended up under the left rear tire of the van if she were driving. Plus, There was no damage with the van consistent with a collision. That's enough to eject someone from a vehicle. So Mark's attorney said, wasn't it possible now that Sandy Schnabel got out of the van, became entangled in some barbed wire, snagged by the van as it drove over the fence, and then the van rolled over her body? Isn't that possible?

[Jimmy Wissman]

Yeah, but this isn't a movie written by the Wayans brothers.

[James Petragallo]

This is, you know, that's more like the scary movie. This is ridiculous. That's like some righteous gemstone shit that would like. Yeah, somebody.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Well, somebody's dick is out.

[James Petragallo]

Well, the answer is no. He said all that and the guy just said, no, that's not possible. He said, well, let me ask you this. Riddle me this. Fuck. All right, how about this Shit. What if. Okay, it was whether it was possible that Sandy had tried to intentionally damage the van. The lawyer said she was angry the night before she died from family financial problems preventing her from purchasing a new van. Could someone have tried to cause the van to roll over that would have caused a new van purchase? Did she try to crash it on purpose? Now we have to get a new van. And there's a long pause and the guy said, yes, I guess. I mean, sure, she could have done it herself, but I doubt it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Why would she be tangled in barbed wire under it, on fire?

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, you already said no to that possibility. So. So during one moment in the proceedings, Mark had a complete breakdown. Here. The investigator said as part of the court process, our key suspect had to go for an evaluation which determined his mental capacity and that kind of thing. So Vandy Van Horn, I guess that's a person, and I were the ones that were. It's probably a nickname were that were bringing him in. We came out the front way because that's where the press was packed in the doors. So we came out down a spiral metal staircase. All of a sudden we're talking with him, and he just collapses. He just doesn't pass out, but he just goes limp. At that point, he starts to fall down the spiral staircase. He's like three stories down. He's in handcuffs and belly chains. If it weren't for Investigator Van Horn and I catching him, he would have went down that spiral staircase and probably suffered a great deal of bodily damage. He was losing control. So he's not meant for this, and he's not long for this. And so he's going to plead guilty. Instead, they make a deal with him that he will be charged with second degree murder, if he pleads to that rather than first degree murder, that avoids the death penalty, but still leaves him in for life without parole. The possibility, he pleads no contest, though that's part of the deal. Rather than guilty. So he does not have to say he did it. He doesn't have. The judge doesn't have to go, did you? Blah, blah, blah. And he says, yes, doesn't have to do that. So, yeah, it's second degree murder in exchange for a recommendation by prosecutors of a sentence of 25 years to life. Now, that sentence, which, by the way, domestic abuse people in the state freaked out about because they're like, he can get. He's eligible for parole in 12 years if you do that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

What the fuck?

[James Petragallo]

During sentencing, by the way, all the volleyball kids are back, all wearing their red and black fucking school jackets to. He's got a whole team just ready to spike balls on his fucking head. So Mark speaks at sentencing and said, I just want you to know how sorry I am, and if I could take it back, I would, but I can't. So the judge called the murder unspeakably cruel and inhumane. Saw everything, said that he, you know, talks about the sentences, the recommendations, but explains to the courtroom that even though the prosecutor recommended the sentence of 25 years to life, the judge does not have to abide by that.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Do a goddamn thing.

[James Petragallo]

He judge says this horrific event changed the course of the children's lives forever. What you taught them is that even people who they claim. Who claim love them, cannot be trusted not to hurt them. The court, having found the defendant guilty of one count of murder in the second degree and being fully advised in the premises, finds that the defendant should be hereby sentenced to. You, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Okay, that's good.

[James Petragallo]

Said, fuck your deal now. The defense attorney said that he wasn't surprised that the judge opted for a tougher sentence. He said it's mainly the feeble attempt to cover up that made everybody mad. Meaning his client's feeble attempt to cover up the murder. Problem is, the judge fucked up. Judge Gilbride made a bad error. She failed to set a minimum sentence. She didn't say without parole. She said life in prison. That made him eligible for parole in 10 years because she didn't specify. So that's the automatic default? Yeah, it's fucking ridiculous. So when no minimum is specified, the sentence defaults to a statutory minimum. The prosecutor and the defense attorney here, like we said, they had the recommendation worked out. But anyway, so he's sentenced to that and it's a fucking mess. The judge tries to fix it, but they say, no, you can't fix it.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You can't.

[James Petragallo]

That's Nebraska Supreme Court overrules the attempt by the state to appeal that sentence and basically in the wash it all comes out that he has a minimum of 20 years, but it ends up being 10 years because that's so. Yeah, and first they did 20 and then it went back to no, she didn't set shit. So it's 10.

[Jimmy Wissman]

And is that paroled or is it.

[James Petragallo]

That's eligibility for parole.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Eligible for parole.

[James Petragallo]

Okay, eligibility, they said. Yep. They said it's a drastic change for his sentence. The defense attorney said. They said a flat life sentence is in the discretion of the court. Several Supreme Court judges noted that the interpretation would require a case change in case law. They said that it sounds all well and good, but that's not how we've interpreted it since 1972. He's out in 10 years or parole possibility. The kids end up staying with Sandy's sister, which I think is good. 2016, he's up for parole.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh God.

[James Petragallo]

He said, I regret what this has done to my children, my in laws, my family. My kids don't want me to contact them. I won't contact them. Especially that little fucking snitch Sarah. I mean, I never want to talk to that bitch. I mean, I love my kids. He then says, that doesn't mean I don't love them. He told the board that he committed himself to being a productive and trouble free inmate and has become a specialist in Braille through his prison job. He asked the board to parole him to South Dakota so he could take care of his 83 year old mother. His 83 year old mother, Etheline called him a very loving and caring father. He took care of the kids because of his wife's schedule. She said. Trevor says I still remember the sounds. I remember the way she screamed. I remember the sound of whatever hit her, he hit her with. And I remember the fire. I remember the next morning he took us aside and told us to our faces that there had been an accident. I don't feel safe in my life if he's released. Sarah said, my mother was dead when I last saw her. My life changed. For 17 years, this picture of my mother has haunted me. I have night terrors. I suffer from deep depressions. He five to zero, they say, fuck off back to prison, asshole. One of the board members said it was the seriousness of the offense and the widespread impact it had on the community and said also he has not undergone rehabilitation programs in prison that deal with issues such as domestic violence. He said his excuse was, well, my case managers hadn't recommended such classes. That's why I didn't take them. But I'll take them now if that's what you want. 20, 21, another parole hearing.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Oh God.

[James Petragallo]

The kids do the same thing. They come back and Trevor said it's been incredibly hard to live a normal life in the shadow of this brutality. I guess so. He is denied. 5, 0 again. One of the Hearst older students there, one of Sandy's students said, it's a weird emotion. It doesn't feel victorious, but it feels somewhat relieving. For now, all the volleyball kids show up at all the parole hearings in their fucking. In their warmup jackets.

[Jimmy Wissman]

You're in everything.

[James Petragallo]

Yeah, yeah. They have a uniform. Yeah, they're 40 year old broads squeezing into their fucking. Three kids later squeezing into their high school. Shit. Showing how pissed off they are. 20, 24, he's 60 years old. Another parole hearing. Sarah through a letter says, I lost my mom, my home, my family, my childhood. That night. I'm asking you, pleading with you to give me a chance to live my life. And they said, no problem. Five nothing. Fucking denied.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Go to the Bahamas.

[James Petragallo]

Yep. He's never gotten a vote positive on this for him.

[Jimmy Wissman]

No shit.

[James Petragallo]

Five, zero. Every time. Yeah, he's a total asshole. What a scumbag. While his kids are in the house. He's a bad guy. No, he's capable of anything. His next parole hearing will be November 2025. Where the kids are going to. The ladies are going to come with their jackets. And it's on again. The sister that has custody of the kids now, Tina Comer, she said, keep Mark Schnabel in prison for the rest of his life. She's buried at the Mamre. Mamre, I don't know, Church cemetery in Marquette, Nebraska. There. So there you go, everybody there's. I'm telling you, we can't go away from Nebraska for another year. It's crazy there.

[Jimmy Wissman]

We've been away for too long.

[James Petragallo]

Quickly, at the end of the show. Here, shutupandgivemerder.com is where you go for everything. Tickets for live shows. Get them now. Seattle, there's a few left for San Diego that we just released. Also DC and Philly. Get those tickets right now. Shut upandgivemerder.com, follow on social media. Smalltownmurder on Instagram, Smalltownpod on Facebook patreon.com crimeinsports you get everything there. Anybody $5 a month or above, all sorts. 300 plus episodes of back stuff you've never heard before. New ones every other week including this week. We got Disaster Potpourri for crime and sports. Prisoner Dating game for Small Town Murder. Need I say more? God damn it. And you get all three shows. Crime and sports. Your stupid opinions. Small Town Murder ad free on Patreon and a shout out patreon.com CrimeAndSports get in there and come see us. Head over to the site if you want to follow us on social media. There's a drop down menu. Tell you everywhere you need to be. That said, until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[Jimmy Wissman]

Bye.

[James Petragallo]

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