Down South Death Demon - Edwards, Mississippi

Summary

Small Town Murder: “Down South Death Demon - Edwards, Mississippi”

Podcast: Small Town Murder
Hosts: James Pietragallo, Jimmie Whisman
Episode Date: September 12, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, James and Jimmie dive into the tragic and twisted story of James Cobb Hutto III, a man with a profoundly troubled past who became the focal point of a brutal murder in tiny Edwards, Mississippi—and possibly much more. The hosts unravel not only the shocking crime, but the generational trauma and systemic failures that paved the way for Hutto’s violence, ultimately shining their classic, irreverent comedic light on the darkness of small-town true crime.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Setting the Scene: Edwards, Mississippi

• Location & Demographics:
  • Rural, west-central Mississippi, near Jackson.
  • Population: Just over 1,000.
  • Area code 601, median income $28k, typical home price $103k—about 40 years behind national averages.
  • "It's interesting, a little bit of history... Everything is just scaled back about 40 years here." (James, 05:07)
• Town Oddities & Notable Features:
  • Formerly named Amsterdam.
  • Hit by cholera and yellow fever epidemics in the 1800s—erased and reborn multiple times.
  • Home to "the world's only cactus plantation," run by a resilient octogenarian named John.
  • Reviews highlight the town’s lengthy decline: "A ghost has to pay to haunt a place for 60 years." (Jimmy, 09:06)
• Local Life:
  • Main events: May Day Jubilee, with 90s nostalgia.
  • The hosts poke fun at small-town attempts at ‘magic’ and community.

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2. The Troubled Life of James Cobb Hutto III

• Hometown: Jasper, Alabama.
• Family Dysfunction:
  • "Dad's an abusive alcoholic... beats the shit out of everybody, but mostly just leaves." (James, 11:19)
  • Mother: severe bipolar disorder (untreated), substance abuse, neglect.
  • Stepdad: “Somehow was worse than dad ... an abusive alcoholic who not only beats the mother, beats the kid up too.” (James, 12:28)
  • Sexually abused by multiple relatives (notably his “aunt/grandmother Faye”).
  • Systemic failure: Even as a 7-year-old seeking police help, Hutto was laughed out of the station, never receiving intervention or counseling.

Notable Moment

"At 7 years old, he went to the police station and said, my stepfather beats the shit out of my mom... and they laughed at him..."
—James, 15:47

• Adult Disintegration:
  • Fostering of intense anger, “splitting” behavior (idealizing then devaluing people), and inability to form or maintain healthy relationships.
  • Joins the ‘tough man’/MMA fighting circuit as “Hitman Hutto.”
  • Gets tangled with famed local boxer Butterbean—whose presence the hosts can’t help but satirize.

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3. A String of Crimes & Disturbed Behavior

• Criminal Escalation:
  • Early adult pattern: trespassing, domestic assault, harassment, reckless driving.
  • Serial sexual abuse: multiple convictions for sexual assault (statutory rape of 17-year-old girls, sometimes minimized in court as “affairs”).
  • Refusal to register as a sex offender.
  • Violent and disruptive in prison; paroled after only 3.5 years on two concurrent 10-year sentences.
  • Marriage falls apart; ex-wife describes a man transformed by fighting, drugs, and anger.

Quote

"This is not the guy you want to put out into the world abused and damaged and untreated for this shit."
—James, 17:28

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4. The Murder of Ethel Winstead Simpson

(Main True Crime Story Begins ~40:10)

Victim Introduction:

• Ethel Winstead Simpson:
  • 81, vivacious, brightly dressed, Red Hat Society member, “probably one of the most generous, giving people I've ever met…” (Jan Cossett, 38:59)
  • Known for upbeat spirit; recently widowed.
  • "She was lively... loved to eat, loved people. She was alive and full of life." (Prosecutor, 69:01)

How Their Paths Crossed:

• Hutto, carless and stranded after a weekend tryst, talks his way into the trust of Ethel at a local Healthplex by claiming he has cancer and is stranded.
• “He’s walking around...mainly old people in this, by the way...started telling everybody that he has cancer.” (James, 35:29)

Timeline

• September 13, 2010
  • 3:00–4:30pm: Hutto meets Ethel at Healthplex, befriends her with a sob story.
  • 4:30pm: Ethel gives Hutto a ride to the Comfort Inn.
  • 8:36pm: Her Mercedes is caught heading toward a Vicksburg casino.
  • 8:45–11:24pm: They’re seen on casino surveillance, seemingly comfortable and social; she pays for everything.
• September 14, 2010
  • 12:44am: Only Hutto is seen returning with her car to the Comfort Inn.
  • By morning, Ethel hasn’t come home; her family reports her missing.
  • 7am: Her brother notices her absence.
  • By late evening: The hunt for both Hutto and Ethel is in motion.
• September 17, 2010
  • Farmer discovers Ethel’s body in a grain bin, covered in hog feed.

Crime Details

• Brutality:
  • “She has a skull fracture ear to ear… fractured spine at C2, C3... complete severing of the spinal cord… windpipe crushed… defensive wounds… essentially beaten to death.” (James, 53:09)
• Hutto’s Movements:
  • He takes her car, hangs with sketchy relatives, stabs a man during a land sale negotiation in Alabama (victim survives and testifies).
• Police Chase:
  • Fled at 100mph before crashing and being arrested.
• Interrogations & Defense:
  • Consistently blames others (“Ask Mark Cox, he was there...”), invents stories of being molested by Ethel, and maintains a bizarre, confrontational courtroom presence.
• Trial Circus:
  • Numerous outbursts, flipping off prosecutors, attempts to fire or object to his own attorney, requests for the death penalty, wild claims.
  • Quotes:
    • “I don't give a fuck about none of them. Especially them. Them or them, I don't care. Fuck all of y’all. See that? Fuck y’all.” (Hutto, 69:59)
    • "Charles Manson couldn't tote my gym bag." (Hutto, 63:41)

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5. Legal Aftermath

• Conviction:
  • Guilty of murder after only two hours of jury deliberation.
  • Sentenced to death by lethal injection.
  • “You, sir, may fuck off. Death by lethal injection.” (James, 76:26)
  • “My mother died because she was kind. We can't let kindness become a death sentence.” (Ken Simpson, 77:53)
• Prison Life:
  • On death row at Mississippi State Penitentiary in “Parchment,” 23-hour lockdown.
  • Mississippi’s executions on hold due to lack of protocol and necessary drugs; likely will never be executed.
• Broader Impact:
  • Stricter ID requirements at Healthplex, buddy system, senior safety seminars, police presence at senior centers, stronger elder abuse laws.
  • The Ethel Simpson Foundation: provides security equipment, self-defense education to seniors.
• Possible Serial Killer:
  • Multiple unsolved disappearances of elderly women in Alabama and Mississippi are under review due to patterns and Hutto’s own admissions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dark Comedy/Absurdity:
  • “I want to go to trial. I’ll be a good boy in court.” (Hutto, 68:15)
  • “Don't say [‘Hitman’] while you're being arraigned for first degree murder, please. That's dumb.” (James, 65:36)
• On the Justice System and Small-town Realities:
  • "This isn't gonna help his brain issues. Also, if he's been knocked around, now we're gonna punch him in the head more." (James, 17:26)
  • “The judge said, Mr. Hutto, I can't allow that. You have to put on...something. That's why you have a lawyer.” (James, 69:10)
• Butterbean’s Cameo:
  • “Butterbean said, ‘I wouldn't put it past him. Just because of how crazy he got, in the end, I wouldn't put it past him.’” (James, 65:08)
• On Ethel’s Kindness:
  • “Probably one of the most generous, giving people I’ve ever met in my life. Never met a stranger.” (Jan Cossett, 38:59)
• Galling Denial:
  • “[He said] I had sex with her the first day I met her. He said, ‘these old women, they think they can buy young men…’” (James, 64:06)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |---------|--------------------------------------------| | 03:51 | Introduction to Edwards, Mississippi | | 10:15 | Introduction to James Cobb Hutto III | | 15:47 | Early Abuses, Generational Trauma | | 17:26 | MMA Career & Escalating Violence | | 20:34 | Butterbean & "Hitman Hutto" | | 22:19 | Sexual Assault Charges and Sentencing | | 28:32 | The “Emergency Camaro” and Move to MS | | 35:29 | Encounter with Ethel at Healthplex | | 40:10 | Victim Profile: Ethel Winstead Simpson | | 41:29 | Timeline of Ethel & Hutto’s Movements | | 53:09 | Forensic Description of the Killing | | 56:27 | Police Chase and Hutto’s Arrest | | 63:41 | Interrogation Ramblings & Court Outbursts | | 69:01 | Opening Statements at Trial | | 76:26 | Sentencing: Death by Lethal Injection | | 77:53 | Broader Legal and Community Impact | | 79:14 | Potential Connections to Other Crimes |

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Conclusion

Peppered with black humor and sharp banter, this episode remains one of Small Town Murder’s most harrowing and chaotic builds: a devastating look at how individual trauma, institutional neglect, and community kindness can all intersect in the most horrifying outcomes. James and Jimmie’s storytelling keeps the pace both engaging and thought-provoking, poking holes in old clichés about evil coming from “nowhere”—and exposing how sometimes, it can come from everywhere at once.

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For More

• Visit shutupandgivememurder.com for live shows, merch, and Patreon links.
• Patreon.com/crimeinsports for bonus content including deep dives into infamous cases and ad-free listening.

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The summary omits ads, intros/outros, and focuses solely on investigative content as the hosts deliver it—unsparing in detail, gallows humor, and unflinching in exploring the pain underlying small-town murder.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wisman]

In just three years, she went from stay at home mom to traveling the.

[James Petregallo]

World, saving lives and making millions. Anyone would think Candice's chocolate life is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

About as real as unicorns.

[James Petregallo]

But sometimes the truth is even harder.

[Jimmy Wisman]

To believe than the lies.

[James Petregallo]

Not true. There's so many things not true. You gotta believe me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm Charli Webster and this is Unicorn.

[James Petregallo]

Girl, an Apple original podcast produced by Seven Hills. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts. Hello and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yay and choo choo.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm Jimmy Wisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another crazy edition of Small Town Murder Express. All aboard the murder train pulling away from the station. We have some insane stuff for you today. Just a wild guy who the. Remember the boxer Butterbean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He may have had something to do with this. We'll talk about it. It's crazy. Butterbean somehow involved in this, which is insane. You don't often talk about. Long expired. Not expired. Is he dead? I think he is dead, isn't he?

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, he's still alive.

[James Petregallo]

He's still alive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He looks like dog shit. There is an AI picture of him saying that he's fighting soon.

[James Petregallo]

He's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He looks like dog shit. He's not fighting. Don't believe it.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, well, there's no sports involved in this. It's just a matter of. You'll see. But before we get to that, very quickly. Absolutely. Head over to shutupandgivemerder.com, get your tickets for live shows. Seattle, you are up in October. Our next two are sold out, next three are sold out. Then we have Seattle. Get your tickets for that at the Moore Theater. It's a beautiful theater. We want to play it beautiful for years since we first started going to Seattle. Can't wait for that. Shut up and give me murder.com also get yourself patreon. Patreon.com crimeinsports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You're gonna get so much stuff. First of all hundreds of back bonus episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. Then you get new ones. One crime in sports, one small town murder every other week. And this week what you're gonna get is athletes who've made $100 million or tens of millions of dollars and are now broken. And for small town murder, part two of Ted Bundy, quote, trying to help find the Green River Killer to save his own ass and everything else. And I call it Bundy versus Green River Killer. It's a comic book I'm thinking of here, of writing for Bundy's benefit. For Bundy's benefit. So there you go. Patreon.com CrimeInSports and you get all the shows, all the shows we do. Crime in sports, you, stupid opinions and small town murder all ad free with your Patreon. You can't beat it. It's the best deal going. And you get a shout out at the end of the show too. So get on that and get in there and come see us. That said, I think it's time to sit back. Here we go. Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Everybody, let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Wisman]

We love trips.

[James Petregallo]

We're going to Mississippi this week. Down in with all the S's and the P's and the eyes here. Mississippi. Edwards, Mississippi to be exact.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's beautiful.

[James Petregallo]

Lovely down there. Nice. I mean, it's pretty. There's lots of woods and stuff. It's nice.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Mountainy. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not really, but Woody, there's a lot of woods and things like that. It's in west central Mississippi and it's just over in the middle of nowhere. It's not really close to much. It's close to Jackson, which is not a major metropolis. It's about three.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The geography of Mississippi has escaped me for good.

[James Petregallo]

Has escaped. That means it was once housed there, which I also doubt. You can't escape without being there first to absorb it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Escape me.

[James Petregallo]

There you go. It's about three hours to New Orleans. About four hours to Birmingham, Alabama if you go the other direction. And it's about four hours to Faulkner, Mississippi, Our last Mississippi episode, which was up episode 588, the Four Letter Murder, which was insane. Mississippi never lets us down with crazy murders. This is in Hinds County. Hinds. Hinds. Oh, like the back, like your quarters? Yeah. Area code 601. Population around here? 1,060. Not a lot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

1,060.

[James Petregallo]

Hog farming territory is where we're at here, median household income in Edwards, $28,688, which is well under half the national average for median household income. But the median home price here, it all kind of fits. $102,900. That's the median home price. So everything is just scaled back about 40 years here. That's it. 30 grand's a good salary, and 100,000 is a price of a house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good house. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It's interesting, a little bit of history of this town here. The first town in the Edwards community was known as Amsterdam. That was the first town. I don't know. It's got to be way different than Amsterdam, the Dutch city.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I can't imagine there's much restraint being lifted on things like that.

[James Petregallo]

No, no red light district in Edwards. These towns, by the way, have come and gone like, four times. The town was big in the 1830s and then just faded away. Just. The town no longer existed after a while, mainly because an epidemic of cholera in about 1830 caused that. And they put the railroad in a little bit further away than they wanted them to. So the town just died between the cholera and lack of railroad. Then in 1897, there was a yellow fever epidemic that completely decimated the town again. They were saying there were some families with every family member was ill at the same time, and people were dying and being buried without their family even finding out because everybody was just hidden away in their houses.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

The yellow fever reviews of this town, Yellow fever aside, here's five stars. It's quiet and calm without all the noise that the city makes. It's the exact review I would expect from this town.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You betcha.

[James Petregallo]

Here is three stars. World's only cactus plantation.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's not.

[James Petregallo]

I feel like Arizona is missing out. If that's the case. They're missing the boat on something.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's a specific word there that changes things.

[James Petregallo]

We call them nurseries, we call them farms and things there. But I assume cactus growing. The cactus plantation is still open. But Hari. Okay. Cactus are notoriously fast on the getaway. John's 81. The guy who runs it, I think, is John. He's 81 and has had three major surgeries. He. He told me he's looking for a buyer to carry on the business. Who the hell doesn't want to get into the exciting world of cactus growing? He also said I should tell all my friends his business is still open, albeit much smaller than in happier times. He used to have 10 greenhouses. Now he's got two one on the property and one down the road that's got nothing but bromelaid in it. Another kind of plant. The one I was in was about one quarter full of Easter lilies. Seeing as. And seeing as. With an apostrophe and everything. Seeing as how we are just four days away from Easter, John said he'd be delivering lilies all morning. Well, now that we all caught up with John from the cactus plantation. And finally business is dying.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But he'll be gone all day if.

[James Petregallo]

You need to buy anything, just in case you want to rob the place. One Star Edwards is a small town several miles east of Vicksburg and is normally overlooked by travelers. Yeah. The town only contains a preschool and a handful of convenience stores. The population is under 2000. Yeah. How many much more stores do you want? There's nobody there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What about the cactus plantation, man?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Come on. What about the Easter lilies? And has been on the down slope over the past 60 years. That's a long slope.

[Jimmy Wisman]

60 years.

[James Petregallo]

That's one of those. Like, it doesn't seem like a slope till you see the whole road and you're like, shit. That's a lot. It's a lot of. It's a big grade to that. I do not recommend.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A ghost has to pay to haunt a place for 60 years.

[James Petregallo]

Holy shit. I do not recommend purgatory for ghosts. I do not recommend anyone staying in this town.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Don't stay.

[James Petregallo]

Just no one. Things to do. Edwards May Day Jubilee.

[Jimmy Wisman]

May Day.

[James Petregallo]

Mayday.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Calling for help.

[James Petregallo]

Help. Miss. Now. A highly anticipated community celebration that brings people together for a day of food, fun, and entertainment. This year, we're turning up the nostalgia with 90s themed experiences, all while honoring our theme, Bridging generations, Building community. Then it says, let's kick it 90s style.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Let's kick it.

[James Petregallo]

Let's kick it 90s style. There's a parade at 10. There's live entertainment that's so good that we don't know the names of any of the acts, which always means they're local. Excellent stuff here. Family friendly activities bringing the community together across generations. They say this is more than just a festival. It's a chance to celebrate our history, support local businesses, and create lasting memories. Whether you're a vendor, performer, or community member, we invite you to be part of the magic.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yes.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, the magic. The pageantry of Edwards May Day. That said, let's talk about some murder here. Getting into it a touch early because we got a wild story that is a lot deeper than I initially anticipated. Okay. Let's talk about a guy first here. James Cobb is his middle name. C, O, B, B, like Ty. James Cobb Hutto. H, U, T, T, O, iii.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow. Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Jimmy Hutto iii. Yes, there is. There's a junior and then a Senior. He's born June 7, 1971. He is from the Jasper, Alabama area, which we have done an episode about, by the way. Prettier than Col. If I remember. There was coal in the title there somewhere. Because there's coal there. Coal mining. His mother and father. His father's obviously James Cob Hutto Senior. His mother's name is Phyllis Jones. And both the father and the mother are a mess. I mean, Dad's an abusive alcoholic.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Beats the shit out of everybody in the family. But mostly just leaves, though that's actually preferred to beating the shit out of everybody. His mother has bipolar disorder and quite a severe and for a long time, untreated way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Mental health.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, bipolar, but she wasn't treated or anything like that. She also has multiple substance abuse problems. So when you mix bipolar and substance abuse, you cannot expect your brain to make good decisions. You just can't.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, her frustration might be leaning her to swing hard with the substances, you know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Because all sorts of things will make.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Everybody just keeps telling you you're crazy and you got no way of getting help. You're just gonna fix it your own way.

[James Petregallo]

More than likely, her parents are alcoholics and she's an alcoholic. And genetic, too, is also part of it. And just, you know, however she came up, either way, she's very neglectful. And so is the father, obviously, of James III here, Hutto. Very neglectful. She ends up remarrying after the. After dad takes off. A guy named Larry Jo somehow was worse than dad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She's got a type. So we can imagine what her dad was like. Just think about that. Yeah. An alcoholic who beats the shit out of everybody. Larry Jones, the stepfather. An abusive alcoholic who not only beats the mother, beats the kid up, too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why not?

[James Petregallo]

I never understood beating up someone who's. First of all, you shouldn't beat any kids. But to beat up a kid who's not even yours is wild to me. That is a huge.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Certainly a choice.

[James Petregallo]

That's a crazy boundary to overstep, right? That's not even your kid. Who are you hitting? What are you doing? Don't hit your kids either, but Jesus Christ, at least you can say, I brought you into this world, I'll take you out. You can't even say that. I Didn't do shit. I married your mom and I'll beat your shit out of you. That's a weird thing to say.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's probably because the dad isn't around and he feels he has to do something.

[James Petregallo]

Well, he's also an alcoholic who is an abusive alcoholic. It's just what he does, whoever's around. He beat Little Hutto so bad at one point that he caused a two week absence from school because he was so knocked around, he needed two weeks to heal, two weeks off of school. So it didn't show. It's wild. And then there's other times where he is sent to live with his father and they beat the shit out of him. His father and his stepmother both abuse him. It's a little crazy here. There's also well documented arrest reports of Larry and Phyllis with countless hospital visits after he beat the shit out of her. It's bad. Now, if things couldn't get worse for Little Hutto iii, he is sexually abused by multiple family members, including what he says and what everybody says at the time. Because there's another family member who also said they were abused by this person was his aunt. His aunt Fay, who is Virginia Fay Rarden. H A R D O N. Who, by the way, is both his grandmother and his aunt. Fantastic. That's. Why not roll that around in your brain for a little while. So in the first four minutes of this story, we have a kid who has the same grandmother and aunt. His grandmother and aunt are the same human being, number one. That's where we're at at this point. And he's there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They don't share the same DNA. They share the exact same DNA.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Face and hand, all sorts of everything. Now he was sent to live with Aunt Grandma Faye.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

For his own protection. Because he was getting beat up at home so bad and abused at home. So she molested him for years. Allegedly. Not really allegedly. It's kind of a proven thing. But allegedly, we'll say, for purposes of the podcast. So that's not great. And apparently she's not the only one. Plenty of other family members abusing him also did this. Yes. And this is he's got a cousin named Sammy who the same exact things happen to him and he backs up all the stories and says, no, that motherfucker is a molester and so is him and Uncle Frank or whoever the hell, you know, whatever. So now the other thing is, when he was 7, he actually tried to go to the police to get the stepfather out of the house at seven Years old, he went to the police station and said, my stepfather beats the shit out of my mom and beats us all up and we gotta get him out of the house. And they laughed at him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He recognized at 7 how wrong this was, and the police could not see it.

[James Petregallo]

They tussled his hair, gave him a Jolly Rancher and sent him on his way. Told him, isn't that cute? So obviously there's some problems here for this guy. Now, he's never treated at all. He's never has counseling or anything like that for any of this shit. He's got terrible coping skills, very impulsive, he's super angry and aggressive. And he's got what a psychiatrist describes as a tendency to split later on. Not personalities. That's a matter of idealizing somebody immediately they're the perfect person. And then completely the devaluation of them comes all at once. Wow, you have met people like this before too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

One fell swoop, they just cut them off.

[James Petregallo]

The first, they're looking for something that that person's fucking them over. And the first hint of it isn't even whether it's true or not, just whatever their brain takes as a hint. Now that person's nothing and they're worthless. And two seconds ago, they were the greatest thing who's ever existed. So it's interesting here they say kind of mixed signals from the family will do that to you. Now he gets into number one crime, but number two also, he gets into fighting, like cage fighting, MMA fighting. He wants to get into that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, he wants to do it.

[James Petregallo]

He wants to do that? No, no, he wants to do it. This is when, like in the 90s, when he's in his 20s, he wants to do this kind of in the, in the beginning he started out in tough man competitions. And yeah, you know, he's 6 to 230 pounds, bald head, big stocky guy, you know, that's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That is a weapon right there.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. This is not the guy you want to put out into the world abused and damaged and untreated for this shit. So he. This isn't gonna help his brain issues. Also, if he's been knocked around now, we're gonna punch him in the head more. So he later on gets an adverse childhood experiences score from a psychologist of 10 out of 10, which basically means 10 out of 10, everything you could have that fucks up your mind and your development as a child, he has them all. So he gets married, obviously, gotta do that, and he gets married to a very normal, stable woman. That's the thing, too. He gets, like, the opposite of his mother, essentially. He marries a woman named Catherine, who is just a very patient and kind lady. They're gonna have three kids. Three, wow. This guy needs three kids. Okay. Terrible with responsibilities. Can't hold a job.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Doesn't pay bills. Doesn't do shit like that. Never physically assaults his wife or kids, which is honestly a fucking miracle.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

But absolutely has no interest in maintaining the responsibilities of a husband and father. Just.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But. But I am happy for him for getting beyond the damage that he can still have sex. That's wonderful. He made three kids.

[James Petregallo]

The bills are three months late. The lawn is up to his knees. But he didn't punch anybody, so that's good. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Probably aren't doing great either.

[James Petregallo]

No. So when he gets into the Tough Man Slash MMA sc, he goes by Hitman Hutto, which sounds cooler than James Cobb Hutto. I think. So Hitman Hutto over here. He gets involved in all this shit. Now, Catherine, the wife says that he changed immediately when he started competing in Tough man shit in like 97.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Isn't it crazy how you stoke somebody's ego and tell them they're great and all of a sudden they change?

[James Petregallo]

Well, yeah. And they're getting hit in the head, too, a lot. Which also isn't going to help. She said, when we were in high school, he didn't smoke, he didn't do drugs. This is not the same person I knew back then.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's smoking and doing drugs now now.

[James Petregallo]

While he's doing well. Yeah. Why else would you get in a tough man ring unless you were on drugs? I mean, come on. Especially in the 90s, those guys were. They were like tough guys from the bar. They weren't like, you know, people who trained for this since they were five, like we have now?

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, they're a guy that holds a blowtorch during the day.

[James Petregallo]

A welder who'll kick the shit out of you and then go home and beat his wife up, too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He got aluminum plates all day.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Works around metal. So Katherine said after the cage fighting started, he changed like a switch. Angry one minute, normal the next. Enter Butterbean. Okay, now he's living in Jasper. Jasper happens to be where Eric Butterbean lives. And that's where he lives, huh? Yeah, that's where he's from. And he lived. And he's got his own little thing going on down there, like his own little promotion, basically. And he ends up befriending Butterbean.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

And that's how this goes. Butterbean said that Hutto, he's known him for years from around the area and from training and stuff like that. And he said that he was scheduled, Hutto was scheduled to fight on an undercard, on one of Butterbean's undercards in 2008. But he, Hutto was walking. He got arrested while walking to the event.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

He was walking to the event wearing only his fighting shorts. Okay, exactly what he was going to get into the ring like, he didn't say, I'll put sneakers and a shirt on and walk there. Then when I get there, I'll take my sneakers and shirt off. He just got ring ready and then said, all right, hit the road. And then he just started walking. So that tells you right there, that's a weird guy, right? So he said, yeah, he got arrested while walking down the interstate for whatever reason. I don't think you're allowed to walk on the interstate, probably. So Butterbean said in his own mind, Muhammad Ali in his prime would have to watch out for him. Oh, so that's who he thinks he is. He thinks he's the toughest guy in the world.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm better than the best, the greatest.

[James Petregallo]

So April 20, 1998, he is arrested for criminal trespass in the third degree. So while they're questioning him for that, he made a statement that incriminated himself further in other crimes including the sexual abuse in the first degree and kidnapping in the first degree of a 17 year old girl. James, in one, the amazing thing, in one article they say he had a quote, affair. This was in the court documents. I'm sorry, it said he had an affair with an almost 18 year old girl.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, hitman.

[James Petregallo]

An affair with an almost 18 year old girl is called raping a child. That's what that's called. That's what that means. You can't do that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I had a rape with a child.

[James Petregallo]

That's not an affair with an almost 18 year old girl. But that's the state of Mississippi put it that way in the court documents, which blew my fucking mind. That tells you whoever the author of those documents were and they were describing what happened, where their mind is. So he's charged with that now there's warrants relating to these two offenses. So he's gonna be held, he's being held on a criminal trespass charge while they prepare all of that shit. Takes them 12 days to take him to court though, which is violates the law. You have a certain amount of time, 72 hours, I believe, to make your first appearance unless there's some crazy extenuating circumstances. And 12 days unless there's been an earthquake and an alien attack. 12 days.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He put him in jail for 12.

[James Petregallo]

Days before he saw court. Can't do that. Now, sexual abuse in the first degree is a class C felony. Kidnapping in the first degree is a class A felony. And so they recommended a minimum bail of $1,000 for the sexual abuse and 3,000 for the class A. So they set bail at $4,000. So they said that the judge had concerns that the minimum bail in the case was too low because, you know, it was kind of a teenage girl and all this type of thing. This is not okay. And they said, the state said that the bail was increased. They want the bail increased because of his disruptive behavior while in jail.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, he's out of here.

[James Petregallo]

He's a mess in jail. He does not like jail. So he ends up pleading guilty on 6-4-98 to the charge of criminal trespass in the third degree. And he's sentenced to serve 30 days in jail for that. Then he's entitled to have bonds set at $4,000 for everything else. So that's how that works. Somehow I don't think it's the same case, but in 2002 he is again in trouble for sexual abuse of a 17 year old girl. I don't know if it's the same one that's still going on for years, but I don't think it is. I think it's a different one. Again, it said this was. He was involved in an affair.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Interesting. Now, basically he did not like being called a sex offender. Hated that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Would get real mad. Now the state calls him a sex offender. Is the thing I get.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Young pussy. What's wrong with you?

[James Petregallo]

So he refuses to register as a sex offender. He gets very angry during his mandatory sex offender sessions because he doesn't think he belongs there. Either way, he's sentenced to two concurrent 10 year terms. So 10 years in prison. He's sentenced to.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, all right.

[James Petregallo]

You were doing something for 10 years.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ten years is generally a good chunk of change. That's a stiff sentence.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he served three and a half years before he's paroled, you know, because he seems like a guy who really is going to make a go of it on the outside.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good Lord.

[James Petregallo]

Now in jail, the Walker County Sheriff, John Tyre said that Hutto was a. He's a big tough guy and he's a pain in the ass to have in Jail. He says he caused trouble during his regular jail visits over the past decade. Basically, whenever he's in jail, he's a pain in the ass. He said, quote, he's a big guy. He gave the staff of my county jail some problems from time to time by being rowdy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So now his marriage is over once he gets out of jail. His wife.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, she's not going to deal with that.

[James Petregallo]

We just did three and a half years for statutory rape, essentially, or whatever the fuck. So she said, maybe I'll take the kids and go somewhere else. She sticks around the area, but they're not, you know, she doesn't move away. They attempted a reconciliation at one point, but she wasn't having it. She said, I never even went after child support. I just figured it was a lost cause.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She didn't even want to talk to this man ever again.

[James Petregallo]

No. And she knows he's not going to pay anyway, so what's the point? He wouldn't even pay the bills in the house he lived in. He's gonna pay bills in the house he doesn't live in? No.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right. If he does, then you have to give him the address of where you are. And you don't even wanna see this man.

[James Petregallo]

That's the other thing. She said that during the reconciliation period before the divorce, she saw him going through the mandatory sex offender group. And that really pissed him off a lot. Now he has all sorts of charges, including trespassing, misdemeanor domestic assault, harassment from phone calls, reckless driving, general smorgasbord of jerk off shit that he does. His aunt. Not the one, not Aunt Faye, a different aunt Lois said, growing up as a little boy, he was a wonderful kid. We don't know what happened. We don't know what the fuck happened.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Listen to this show. We just told you.

[James Petregallo]

We just told you. She knew that part. So. September 10, 2010. Okay, okay. He. There's a. Right before. I'm sorry, right before September 10, meaning in the year 2000, the local law enforcement in Jasper, Alabama, said that they're always looking for Hutto. Basically always. If he's out, he's doing something. So if you see him, grab him, because he's going to. He's going to be guilty of something.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Essentially on the lookout for him. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He said, so far this year, we've been out here 12 times. Meaning looking for Hutto for some. His house, a bar somewhere where he's the guy that they're looking for a dozen times. So on September 10, 2010, he buys a Camaro in Jasper, Alabama in cash. I don't know what year Camaro. He got a bad one, I'm assuming.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Probably that 84 somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

Something the Berlinetta, the real shitty one. It's like a two cylinder rs.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's not.

[James Petregallo]

Not good. So he buys it cash money here. I bought it straight cash in Japan. Straight cash, $800 in Jasper, Alabama. He gets in the Camaro. I don't think it's registered or has any insurance or anything like that. But he immediately drives to Clinton, Mississippi which is a three and a half hour drive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, it does. Great.

[James Petregallo]

He's going there. Yeah. This show Small Town Murder is brought to you by betterhelp betterhelp.com youm know it. Therapy is a good thing. We could all use it. Not all of us are getting it. So you should be getting it. And you'll turn to weird places to get the support that you need. You'll turn to a friend that might have an insight. You'll turn to other people. Your mother, some stranger who knows. But not everybody's a therapist. That's the thing. Not everyone is the one. Find your right match with BetterHelp and you can do that. I'm telling you. You talk to all sorts of random strangers or people you know or somebody cutting your hair or something about relationships, anxiety. You know, they're nice to talk to those people. But when you need somebody that you know really knows what they're doing here, those people might not have the right answers. But you can get guidance from a credentialed therapist online with better help. And telling you man, better help is the great place to start therapy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Perfect, sir.

[James Petregallo]

You're thinking you might need a little therapy. You definitely need some therapy. So do that. It's way different to talk to a therapist who actually knows what to do than just your friend who's trying to, you know, make you happy and keep you going. Here. So they have quality therapists here. Better health therapists work according to strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US the therapist match commitment. They'll do the initial matching work so you can focus on your therapy. A short questionnaire helps you identify needs and preferences. And then you can switch therapists at any time with no additional costs. It's completely online. You can pause your subscription if you need to. You can switch therapists do all of that. They have the world's largest online therapy platform, served over 5 million people globally. And you can join a therapist with the click of a button, helping fit therapy into your busy Life. You can do it, everybody. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Smalltown Murder that's BetterHelp. H E L P.com Smalltown Murder now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody, Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our SAFest sponsor, SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

SimpliSafe.com S I M P L I SAFE.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. We want to talk to you about your home security for just a minute here. I used to think home security was an alarm that goes off after, you know, there's a break in and the guy who gets scared and oh God, there's people are gonna hear this and they run away and maybe they get your neighbor's attention, but that's pretty reactive. I mean, things are already happening by that time. An intruder's in your home, it's too late. You've heard Small Town murder. You're listening to it right now. It's way too late. If someone's in your home, you're already dead. So we can't have that. That's why real security should stop a crime before it even starts, right? That's why we trust Simplisafe. Their system is designed to be proactive, not reactive and really could have made half of our episodes not happen. People at Simplisafe, it's amazing. I love it. My whole house, my studio, Jimmy's house, studio, everything is covered by Simplisafe because it's Simp. It's the best. It's simply the best. That's all there is to it. They use AI powered smart cameras to identify threats lurking outside your home. They immediately alert Simplisafe's professional monitoring agents. Boom. There you go. These agents intervene in real time before things even happen. They can talk. They have access to two way audio to confront the purse. Hey, stupid, get out of the yard. It's great. It's amazing. Trigger sirens, spotlights to scare them. They request rapid police dispatch when needed. All helping to stop this intruder while they're still outside your house. That's security. So join the more than 4 million Americans who trust Simplisafe with their home security every day, including Jimmy and myself here. And with a 60 day money back guarantee and no long term contracts, Simplisafe earns your business by keeping you safe and satisfied every single day. Visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system. That's Simplisafe. S I M p l I safe.com small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Now the reason why he's going here. Why would a guy purchase an emergency Camaro and get right in and unregistered and drive 3 and a half hours immediately? What would make a man do that?

[Jimmy Wisman]

You got a new cd, you got to listen to it.

[James Petregallo]

Only pussy will make a man do that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

Only a lady. And that's what he's doing. He's going to visit his ex girlfriend. Oh, Sherry Lawson over at the Comfort Inn in Clinton.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, I'm going to impress the pants right off. Wait till I win the Comfort in a Camaro.

[James Petregallo]

She's the one saying, I'll meet you at the Comfort Inn. You know that's the spot in town. But he's like, wait till she sees my new wheels, boy. So they spent Friday through Monday morning together just copulating.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Like little bunny rabbits.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Four day Fuck Fest.

[James Petregallo]

Four day Fuck Fest. Absolutely. Well, two full, one night and one very early morning. She said that he said he was trying to get back to Alabama. After that he was gonna leave. So Monday, September 13, 2010 the Camaro won't work anymore. It lasted four days. That ride was all he could get out of it. So has that towed to a local repair shop. And yeah, so he's got that. He's got paperwork. He gave the repair paperwork to his ex girlfriend for some reason and said, tell you what, if you want it, you can keep it. You can go pay for whatever needs to be fixed and then it's yours. Now I don't know if that's a legal transfer or what, but that's what he said. So near. About a half mile from the Comfort Inn is the. There's a Mississippi College. It's what it's called. They didn't think to give it a name. They were just like, it's a college, it's in Mississippi. So on this college campus is a gym called the Baptist Healthplex. Yeah, yeah. You know, so the Baptist Healthplex is on the campus and it's a half mile from the Comfort Inn. Walking distance. So Hutto walks over there, he's bored. He's got all his, you know, his balls are drained and he's bored.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So the balls are drained. And my car broke.

[James Petregallo]

I gotta go work out, gotta get a workout in. So at 3pm he walks over to the facility and multiple people see him at the facility at 3pm he starts talking to shitloads of people. He's very social, by the way. Somehow he starts talking to all these people. It's mainly old people in this, by the way. At three o' clock on a Monday. Working out. Yeah, it's all elderly people. So he starts telling everybody that he has cancer.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, he just chose this now?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he says he has lung cancer. He's dying. Just about dead. He's half damn near dead, basically. He also said he has no family, his car just broke down, and he just needs some help getting back to Alabama. And when anybody said, well, how come you came here to begin with? He said, for cancer treatment. Because everyone goes to rural Mississippi for cancer treatments. That's where all the good hospitals are.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The comfort. That's the Comfort Suites is the only place.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the Comfort Inn has the best chemo around. So one of the employees there said he seemed a bit strange, like he was maybe on something, maybe some kind of speed or something. Just seemed like he was kind of amped up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, it's chemo, lady.

[James Petregallo]

Either that or just like, you know, he's like. Had the energy of like. Like a cage fighter would be the best way to put it. Like an MMA guy. That's all. Another employee said, overzealous, eager to talk to people that were in the facility acting out of the ordinary. And a woman named Jan Cossett, who we'll hear from a little later, too, said he was catering his story to the people that were around him, trying to entice people and pull people in.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, so he's changing it a little. Yeah. Making it juicier.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And certain people, they'll watch someone work a room like that, and they're like, I don't think so. He's like a guy at 145am at the bar in Arizona trying to find a lady at the last minute. And they're like, I see what you're doing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I gotta get asked.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You said you were a lawyer. Two minutes ago, you told that chick you were a stockbroker. You're full of shit. I don't like that. So 3.30pm, a woman arrives for her regular workout. Her name is Ethel Winstead Simpson, and She's born in 1929. She's 81 years old. She's going out for her workout. So you can imagine she is a spirited old broad. She is not one of these. She's not a meek little thing. She likes to do shit. She has bright Red hair and dresses, real flashy and. Yeah, she's a character of this lady. She's cool. She's known.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's actual. Workouts, huh?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She's going there to work out. She's known for being real upbeat and have a lot of energy and a lot of personality. She lives in Clinton with her brother. Vivacious is the word they all use. Oh, I thought.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Damn it. I thought that was her brother's name.

[James Petregallo]

No, her brother. Vivacious. She shared. I heard you say she was gregarious. I said vivacious is what they all said. So she shared a home with her brother Thomas. Okay. She goes to a small Bible study group at the First Baptist Church. She's always wearing brightly colored clothes. That's her jam. Bright red hair, brightly colored clothes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Everybody knows this gal. She's fun.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. She drives a silver 2002 Mercedes Benz.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Nice choice.

[James Petregallo]

She's doing all right. Her husband died in 2005 of lung cancer after a long, drawn out illness. And she's got a son named Ken as well. Now, Jan Cossett, that Healthplex employee that said before he was trying to entice people, she said, quote, probably one of the most generous, giving people I've ever met in my life. Never met a stranger. Talking about Ethel, she said that Ethel was a friend, a member of the church that I attended and a member of an organization called the Red Hat Society. Do you know the Red Hats?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't.

[James Petregallo]

You know who they are? Okay. When I first. Before stand up, before everything, when I was in my early 20s, I ran a murder mystery dinner theater that we wrote and put on, and it was a spoof of a dinner theater. You know, it was a fucking. It's kind of dorky. So we made a spoof of it, and it was funny. So anyway, one night, the Red Hats booked the entire show. It was like 100 ladies. And they all. They're all over 50. You basically have to be over 50 and want to go out and party at least once a month, basically.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fun. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they have gatherings, and this was their gathering. That month was our thing. And these ladies were crazy, and they were fun and yelling shit out, and they were like. They were nuts, these ladies.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So do they wear the same hat.

[James Petregallo]

Or are they all just a red hat? Crazy hats, Just different red hats. But you wear a red hat, and that's like. So it's older ladies who like to go out and do shit and have energy. So that's what they are a part of. So she said that she was just One of the most generous people ever. Another person from Ethel's Bible study said she's always helping someone. That's how Ethel gets down. So Hutto finds her and starts chatting her up right away.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He's walking around. He's been there about 30 minutes. And number one, he claims he has cancer. And it's the same cancer her husband has. So right away she's interested, she's sympathetic. She's sympathetic. By 4:30, she's been there for her hour workout. They leave together.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

And she drives him to the Comfort Inn in her silver Mercedes. So at some point, she's there for a minute at the Comfort Inn, hanging out. At some point she goes home briefly and then goes back and picks him back up from the Comfort end.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, she's going to get him something. Yeah, or she's going to change.

[James Petregallo]

Change probably from her workout gear, I would think, or whatever. Now her brother who lives with her didn't even see her when she came home and left. He wasn't home.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She got in that fast?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she got in and out. Now at 8:36pm Her Mercedes is caught on traffic cameras heading toward Vicksburg. Okay. 8:45pm The Riverwalk Casino has surveillance footage of the silver Mercedes parking and two people getting out. Elderly woman with red hair, brightly colored clothes and a bald man wearing Nike flip flops. This is our. This is Hutto. They enter the casino together inside the casino. They're there from 8:45 to 11:24pm in the casino.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a great place for lung cancer.

[James Petregallo]

Perfect place with lung cancer. And no fucking shoes on. Put some shoes on. Well, maybe you can borrow one of those oxygen tanks from those old ladies at the slot machine. You never know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's gonna need it. It's gonna choke him to death in there.

[James Petregallo]

No shit. So security footage shows them gambling together. Shows her purchased dinner. They went out to dinner at the casino restaurant. She paid for everything. The bill's about $40 for casino meals. They're seen at multiple slot machines. They're talking. Hutto seems real relaxed and social. And they're going back and forth, talking and they seem to be having a good time. Just some friends hanging out. A weird grouping of friends. An 80 year old lady and a 40 year old guy just hanging out together. But that's fine. So by 11:24pm The Riverwalk Casino surveillance footage shows two figures walk out. It's her and him. They exit together. They both get in the Mercedes with Ethel driving and they leave, heading east on Highway 61. Okay. Now, September 14, 2010. This is this night. But, you know, an hour later, basically 12:44am so same night, crossed over into the next day. Staying up, they're hanging out. There's me, Ethel parties. Ethel is not fucking around. She is going to get the most out of her remaining years. I like it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She goes harder than I do.

[James Petregallo]

I'm not. I'm not working out and going to a casino in the same day. That's not happening. Going out after that and then going out tonight, not happening. I'm done. So the Comfort in security footage shows them the Mercedes arriving, Hutto getting out of the car. And that's it. No passenger is visible. It's just him in the Mercedes. Yeah. And he enters room 237, which is the same Shining reference.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, it is.

[James Petregallo]

Room 237 is the room that the lady in the tub was. And they have a documentary called Room 237 about all the creepy, weird shit from the Shining.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So that is the grossest scene in that movie.

[James Petregallo]

It's. Yeah, that's. That is. As a kid, dude, that messed me up because I saw it and I was like. I was like, awesome. Oh, God. No, no. As a kid, I never realized how quickly you could lose a boner until that point in my life, I think was, get out of there, Chad. No. Go. I saw boobs. What happened?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ah, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

So at 12:48pm So 4am Four minutes later, he's seen leaving the room wearing a different shirt. He had a white shirt on, changed to a dark shirt, same Nike flip flops, and appears to be moving pretty quickly. At 12:51, he leaves in the Mercedes, going back toward the direction of Vicksburg. He's alone, but he's got her car. 1:15am he arrives back at the America Star. This is a different one. The Ameristar Casino in Vicksburg. He security footage shows him arriving, parking the Mercedes, getting out, entering the facility alone, acting normal, playing slots. One in the morning, playing slots for 45 minutes, talking to employees. Cashes out $47 in tickets, and leaves at 2:11am okay. Now, at 3:07am, a tag reader, a license plate tag reader on the i20 in Rankin county sees the Mercedes heading east toward Alabama at 75 miles an hour with one person in the car.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

A bald guy, mind you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And it's. And it's cooking.

[James Petregallo]

And it's moving highway speed. Yeah. So September 14th, the same day that this is all happening. This night now, 7am so the next morning Ethel's brother Thomas said he woke up and saw that Ethel hadn't come home. And he said that wasn't like her. We looked after each other. So at 8:30, he calls. 8:30am the brother calls Ethel's son Ken, says, you know where your mom is? And she says no. So he says no. Ken calls his mother's phone, no answer. Goes to the health plex. It's not even open yet. Drives all the usual routes she travels to go to her normal things and doesn't see her car, doesn't see her anywhere. Then by 10:15am he contacts the Clinton Police Department. Okay? They do an investigation and in the first couple of minutes they figure exact out what's going on. Exactly. She was last seen at the Baptist Health Plex. Last seen in this area. Anyway, she left with an unknown white male who all the employees gave a very good description of. By the way, the Mercedes is missing from her residence and there's no activities on her credit card since the casino. Okay, so they put out a BOLO here for a silver Mercedes Benz with a Mississippi license plate and possibly a female elderly woman in danger as their, their bolo. So, same day, Hutto pops up at his Aunt Faye's house. He's hanging out there at aunt.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

At Aunt Faye's house? He lives there a lot of times. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Now at the house is Lois Rutledge, who is another one of his great aunts. Okay. She. I don't know if she lives at this house or is there all the time or whatever, but her and her son are there, who is Hutto's cousin Now, okay, she sees him in the Mercedes. He showed up the afternoon of the 14th in North Birmingham at their house. This is Aunt Fay and Aunt, whatever her name is, Aunt Lois's house. He didn't tell his aunts. He told them a different story. He said that Rutledge knew that his mom had recently given him $5,000 from a legal settlement to buy a car. So the aunt said. I said, well, that's a pretty sharp car for the price that your mother gave you. Like you got that for five grand.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How'd you do that?

[James Petregallo]

It's an eight year old Mercedes. How the fuck did that happen? She said that he was asking strange and asked his Aunt Lois if she wanted to see a dead body.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy.

[James Petregallo]

She said my remark was, hell no. But he popped the trunk. It only contained a box though. No body. She said, quote, he tells tales.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, he does.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, so she left the house again and returned with her Son, because he was acting so weird. Hutto was sitting there on the couch. Lois said when she got back, quote, I said, where's Faye? He said, oh, she got a little ill and went into the bedroom. He said, she doesn't want to talk to y' all right now or anybody else. She just wants to lay down. So then Hutto asks his aunt for money. Lois. So she said, quote, I said, jamie. She calls him Jamie. Um, I will let you have it if I can spare it. And my son was sitting here and looked over at him and said, mama, just let him have it. Like, let's get him out of here. Basically, I think, is what she was doing. So she gave over $20. And then Hutto and the cousin, Lois's son, leave. Lois said she then watched television and fell asleep.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. September 16th, at 9am Hutto calls the house saying he's in Panama City, Florida. He calls Lois there at Aunt Faye's house. Aunt Faye said, or Aunt Lois said. He said, let me talk to Faye. I said, she ain't up yet. Hutto then laughed hysterically and hung up. Okay. So she called out to her sister Faye, because she didn't like the laugh, and pounded on her door, but it was locked, her bedroom door, so she couldn't get in. So later she called the fire department, who broke down the door and found her body in there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, Faye's dead.

[James Petregallo]

Faye is dead at 68 years old. The aunt said. Lois said there was blood all over the sheet, blood on her hair and face. And. Yeah, at first they thought it was natural causes. There's blood all over. I don't know how that's possible. Her face just exploded, man.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's naturally bled. Bled to death.

[James Petregallo]

Just bled out, dude. You know how that happens. You get a certain age, your body can't hold the blood anymore. It just lets it all out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, if you're anemic, a nosebleed will get you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they contact the coroner's office, and the coroner's office does find signs of foul play. And she's basically beaten to death in her bedroom. Blunt force trauma is what they're going to attribute this to. Now, this is the woman who he says molested him for years and years. So where the hell is he? He's not in Florida.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

He called his ex wife Catherine that morning, then just showed up at her job in Jasper driving the Mercedes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So much for Panama.

[James Petregallo]

Nope, he's a Panama. Not here. Catherine said he looked drunk. Well, not really drunk, but he was stumbling a lot. He's on something. She said this, she said. He said, you know, cat, I hurt my hand. I about broke my hand. I got in a fight. He had scratches all up and down his arm. Fighting his aunt. She said that he told her that he was in a fight with a man in a parking lot of a Vicksburg casino and told her that he'd been talking, he'd been taking Lortab and Xanax, which is a pain reliever. And Xanax. So, you know, pain reliever is one thing to say. Lortab, That's a narcotic. Yeah, that's a narcotic. Pain reliever. Yeah. That's not Advil or Motrin or some shit like that. Says she. After he showed off the Mercedes, Catherine said that he told her he was going to the Auburn football game on September 18, and then he left. Great plans. September 17, 2010, at a hog farm off Highway 22 in Edwards, Mississippi. Yeah, a local farmer said, quote, I found her in my grain bin.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh. Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. He went in to feed his hogs. And there's a large metal grain storage container that's about 6ft tall used for storing hog feed. It's in a very isolated, dark location to keep the feed nice, obviously about 200 yards from the main road. And this guy said that he opened up the feed thing and saw a body partially covered by hog feed. Basically, he said red stains that appeared to be like, to be blood stains were on the rim of the container. And they also said there was apparent handprints in the blood. They required dental records to identify it as Ethel. Ethel Simpson. So the autopsy showed injuries consistent with a single blow to the side of the head and neck. Although they identified a neck injury, they couldn't state if it was from strangulation, from twisting it or from a blow.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, golly.

[James Petregallo]

She has a skull fracture. Ear to ear. Complete skull fracture.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a shot.

[James Petregallo]

Well, think about 81 year old peoples. Their bones are peoples. Their bones are half the density of mine or yours.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's like an egg.

[James Petregallo]

And a woman, too. It goes worse. They get osteoporosis and everything. Yeah, it's tough on them. So they said the type of force you see in a car wreck or falling from a great distance. A broken neck. Also, fractured spine at C2, C3 with a complete severing of the spinal cord.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's like picking her up and slapping her head on the ground. Right?

[James Petregallo]

Hey, she was like made of balsa wood or something. Everything just exploded and broke. This is horrifying. They said either this or the skull fracture would have killed her. One of the two, obviously. She also had a crushed windpipe consistent with strangulation or blunt force. There was bleeding in her neck muscles. Blunt force trauma to the head with multiple impact sites. Soft tissue defects, facial injuries, Defensive wounds on the hand, bruising consistent with a beating and brain bleeding, subdermal hematoma. And they said this indicates consciousness during the attack as well. So she wasn't even unconscious.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What the fuck, man?

[James Petregallo]

The doctor said she was essentially beaten to death. To death. After either the broken neck or skull fracture, she likely lost consciousness rather quickly. Holy shit. This is horrifying. So September 17, same day they find Ethel in the morning. There's a guy named Mark ambers Cox who's 56. He's at a convenience store near Auburn, Alabama. Okay. He. This is crazy. He said that he met Hutto and they struck up a conversation in the convenience store. And this Ambers happened to tell him that he has some land for sale nearby. So Hutto said, love to take a look at it. So they said, sure. So this guy and Hutto ended up going out to the 5300 block of Highway 29 north in a wooded area where Hutto stabbed Cox in the neck with. In the neck and torso several times.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What the hell?

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely fucking just blitzkriegged him and stole his wallet. This guy had enough left in him to call 911 while he was bleeding out in the woods. And he ended up actually surviving the knife attack. He got stabbed like eight times. It was wild. So he said, I was meeting him about some land I was selling. He just started stabbing me, no warning. That's crazy. So by 2pm now they're chasing Hutto now because now they're looking for him. They know the car, it's all triangulated here. So they said we stopped the silver Mercedes from the bolo, attempted traffic stop, but he fled, of course. So they chased him. He's going 100 fucking miles an hour, weaving through back roads like the Duke boys. Fucking Dixie's playing in the horn when he. When he goes over a jump. I mean, it's wild. They're chasing him. And up to 90 to 100 miles an hour through Auburn into Lee County. Multiple units. He finally crashed into a median. And then once he crashed into the median, he got out, has hands up, was cooperative. He's done. This was at the Alabama Highway 51 and U.S. highway 80. So they swarmed him. He's wearing blood stained flip flops okay. Not smart. Yep. There was blood visible on the driver's seat and Ethel's purse was in the trunk. He, they said, what's up with this? And he said, quote, y' all got the wrong guy. Mark Cox did it. Oh, yeah, he did it. It's the guy stabbed up there. That's why.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. The guy from the land sale.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So they bring him in for an interrogation at 3:30. He claims they were giving him promises for cooperation that will result in rewards for him, which you can't say. If you tell us this, you get this. But you can say might help you out later on if you tell us. The judges tend to look a little kindlier. Juries tend to look a little kindlier on it. If your prosecutor might be less apt to really throw the book at you. So this is an hour and 42 minute minutes of all of this shit of an interrogation. He said, I met her at the gym, old lady, she wanted to help me out. We went to the casino, had a good time. Then Mark Cox showed up. He killed her. I just took the car cause I was scared. Oh, he's blaming the guy he stabbed in Alabama.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Meanwhile, he was never there. He's got strong alibis and he never doesn't know any of these people. He's never even been in this area. Crazy. So he confirms the casino trip, admits to taking the Mercedes, places himself with the victim. He did all these things, but just claimed someone else did it and just.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Gave somebody else the wrap.

[James Petregallo]

So yeah, they find that Mark Cox, due to credit card records, cell phone pings, witness statements and work time cards, he was never anywhere near Mississippi.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hilarious.

[James Petregallo]

End of the interview, he said, do I need a lawyer? And they said, well, that's up to you. And he said, I want a lawyer. So they terminated the interview. Problem is, in a half hour, the Birmingham police come and show up. And now they want to talk to him. And they're unaware of the fact that he lawyered up already. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Hey everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our safest sponsor, SimpliSafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

SimpliSafe.com s I m p l I safe dot com.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. We Want to talk to you about your home security for just a minute here. I used to think home security was an alarm that goes off after, you know, there's a break in and the guy would get scared and God, people are going to hear this and they run away and maybe they get your neighbor's attention, but that's pretty reactive. I mean, things are already happening. By that time an intruder is in your home, it's too late. You've heard small town murder, you're listening to it right now. It's way too late. If someone's in your home, you're already dead. So we can't have that. That's why real security should stop a crime before it even starts. Right? That's why we trust Simplisafe. Their system is designed to be proactive, not reactive. And really could have made half of our episodes not happen. If people at Simplisafe. It's amazing. I love it. My whole house, my studio, Jimmy's house, studio, everything is covered by Simplisafe because it's the best. It's simply the best. That's all there is to it. They use AI powered smart cameras to identify threats lurking outside your home. They immediately alert Simplisafe's professional monitoring agents. Boom. There you go. These agents intervene in real time before things even happen. They can talk. They have access to two way audio to confront the person. Hey, stupid, get out of the yard. It's great. It's amazing. Trigger sirens, spotlights to scare them. They request rapid police dispatch when needed. All helping to stop this intruder while they're still outside your house. That's security. So join the more than 4 million Americans who trust Simplisafe with their home security every day, including Jimmy and myself here. And with a 60 day money back guarantee and no long term contract, Simplisafe earns your business by keeping you safe and satisfied every single day. Visit simplisafe.comsmall to claim 50% off a new system. That's Simplisafe. S I M p l I safe.com small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you how to get your fashion a little bit better with Quince.

[Jimmy Wisman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Wisman]

She tried to molest a cancer patient.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's how it goes. Try to. It's what you got to diddle a cancer patient, you know, see if they're still. Still have some feeling left in them, you know what I mean? Ridiculous. Fucking ridiculous. He said, I didn't go to Faye's house. Mark Cox must have followed me from Mississippi. So now Mark Cox followed him and he's just gonna kill him. Wherever he is, he's gonna kill whoever's around him, essentially.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just gonna. Yeah, just around him really.

[James Petregallo]

Just to frame him up. A few days later, September 22, the third interrogation. This is at his request, he requested to speak with the investigators. And this time he said, you don't know the same Ethel that I do. Oh, he knew Ethel for five hours? Yeah. He said, she was all over me at the casino. I had to get away. I had to get away from her. Charles Manson couldn't tote my gym bag. He also said, what does that mean? That means he's a good murderer, I assume.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Charles Manson couldn't tote my gym bag is the most strange. Is that the most like. Those two things just don't go together. Imagine Charles Manson with a gym bag. It just doesn't fit right. Then he said, quote, I've done worse things than this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, go on.

[James Petregallo]

That's terrifying. And when asked about the murder, though, he said, ask Mark Cox. He was there. That's all he would say. The next day, he requests another interrogation. And he said this about Ethel, quote, she was a horny old broad. I had sex with her the first day I met her. He said, these old women, they think they can buy young men. She touched my leg in the car, my back. Said things like Faye used to say to me. So he's saying. Then he said, quote, lethal injection, firing squad, electric chair, I don't care. Do it tomorrow. Hell, do it today. You can't kill me enough times for what I've done. Alrighty. That's interesting. So he never denied anything. He's charged with murder, obviously. He's charged with murder in Mississippi, Alabama. Said they're gonna wait for this to see how this plays out for a while. Here he has a public defender who immediately pulls out because he's crazy. Butterbean said, quote, they asked Butterbean about this, of course.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What's going on with the.

[James Petregallo]

He said, quote, I wouldn't put it past him. Just because of how crazy he got. In the end, I wouldn't put it past him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Butterbean expects this behavior. Yep. His Aunt Lois that found Aunt Faye, said, it's just hard to believe that one of our relatives done this. I loved him because he was family. Right now, I have no feeling in my heart for him whatsoever. After I saw my sister's face, black and blue and beaten, I can't feel nothing for him now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He used to be Ken.

[James Petregallo]

We used to be Ken. At the arraignment, the judge has to, you know, asks him to confirm his name. And he says, they call me Hitman. Hitman Hutto. Don't say that while you're being arraigned for first degree murder, please. That's dumb. So Mississippi and Alabama agree to let him face trial first in Mississippi. And the agreement stipulates that he be returned to Alabama for trial once the case in Mississippi was over, if they decided to go forward, because they assume he did that first. So they're going chronologically. They try to get some statements thrown out that he made. Obviously, the ones he made about I'd done worse than this Charles Manson couldn't tote my gym bag. You know, all the guilty things that he said. Also, they're wondering about whether his sexual battery is gonna come in his other one. And his lawyer. They're arguing over the difference. I gotta read this quickly. Uh, they said, when you look at our sexual battery definition, meaning can a Mississippi or an Alabama sexual battery come into Mississippi where they have a different definition for it? Basically, he said, when you look at our sexual battery definition, it's a person is guilty of sexual battery if he or she engages in sexual penetration with a person without his or her consent. The obvious difference between Alabama sexual abuse in the first degree and our sexual battery statute is the term penetration. The word penetration. How many times you gonna say that in court? Our law clearly states that penetration is just even the slightest of touching. In fact, any touching of a woman's genitalia is essentially penetration in Mississippi, which means in Mississippi, they don't have a dictionary of what that means. It's a different thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Words mean things they do.

[James Petregallo]

There's also a bunch of shit about his competence. And basically the judge says he's competent. There's a state guy who says he's competent. And then there's somebody that the defense hires who decides not to give any report at all about him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh. Cause they don't want to lie under oath.

[James Petregallo]

They're like, I don't know. They say they don't have it. They don't have it. Basically, they think he's malingering and faking, and they don't know what the hell's going on. And also kind of crazy. The defense counsel convinces the prosecution to extend a plea offer. So they offer him a plea there, which he ends up. He aborted the plea, though he didn't want the plea, and acknowledged to the court that he'd been disruptive and uncooperative in the past and promised to conduct himself appropriately going forward. And he wants to go to trial.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll be a good boy in court.

[James Petregallo]

I will. So they have a change of venue because nobody in this county hasn't heard of this. Everyone knew Ethel. She lived there forever. So it's right outside of Jackson. This cost the county a shitload of money because they have to sequester jurors and hotels and all this shit. In the openings, the prosecution says, she was lively, she was vivacious. She loved to socialize. She had a very busy life. She loved to travel. She loved to eat. She loved people. She was alive and full of life. Ken, her son, described her as colorful in the way she dressed. She also had bright red hair. She's a lover of people. And one of the qualities that people love so much about Ethel was how much she loved people and how outgoing she was. The defense in their opening says, quote, Mr. Hutto requests we present no defense. He wants the death penalty.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The judge said, Mr. Hutto, I can't allow that. You have to put on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

We've got a trial, something. That's why you have a lawyer. So at one point in the trial, in the beginning, he gets a day off for injury. He tells the judge that his leg shackles have injured him. So the trial is delayed while they check out his injury to see if it's legit. The whole trial is just him acting crazy, and I got to get through this quickly. But it's fucking nuts. He missed a bunch of this shit. There's an outburst during his cousin Jason Wilson's testimony where Hutto says, quote, don't give a fuck about none of them. Especially them. Them or them, I don't care. Fuck all of y'. All. See that? Fuck y'. All. And he gives the fingers to everybody. He did that to the judge, the prosecutor, the witness and a bunch of family members in the jury or in the. In the gallery. The defense said, you, Honor, I'd like a recess after that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That'd be nice. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And Hutto says, no recess. Tell them about Alabama. The murder's there. Tell him everything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Tell him.

[James Petregallo]

A court officer approaches, and Hutto says, you're wasting money. Y' all can kill me today. I don't care. Do it today. Do it today. And the judge says, you can go ahead and remove him from the courtroom. Thank you. So that ended the day's proceedings. Interesting. Then he tells the judge the next day, I got some things I want to say.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, great.

[James Petregallo]

He jumped up and said, I don't give a fuck about the death penalty. Then gave the middle finger to the entire audience in the courtroom. Again, the jury didn't see this. Then he told the judge also, everything's going to come out. Everything. Then this is wild. Mark Cox testifies. He Said never met him before in my life before the day he stabbed me. Never been to Hinds county before this trial. Because his defense is Mark Cox did it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And Mark Cox is here.

[James Petregallo]

And he's here. He said he called about buying land, met me at a convenience store, then stabbed me. What the fuck? There's DNA evidence. Simpson's blood, Ethel's blood is on his flip flops. And the match frequency on this blood is 1 in 276 billion. So 1 in, you know, 100 times the population of the world, not 150 times the population of the world, essentially. So, yeah, that's a lot. So there's that. He, by the way, somehow he said he was incompetent. Their thing is, we're incompetent. He's incompetent to stand trial. He went from that to, I get to assist in the defense. I get to be my lawyer, too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So he tries to question some witnesses.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. He has an outburst where he shouted obscenities and made gestures at the jury, which is a good move. As well as injecting prejudicial facts that have been excluded from the trial. He struggled to following the questions that were written out for him. He couldn't read real well. He didn't ask a question that was allowed. He was confused about what the witness had testified to or which witness it even was. He said, you testified to this? And he goes, no, I didn't. And it was some other witness. So he didn't even know what the hell he was talking about.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

He referred to himself in the third person and just acted nuts. In general, it's wild. Apparently, during one of these cross examinations, he exploded and yelled and did all of that, and he was removed again. Then at one point, this is the court document says, in a moment of either dark comedy or immense sadness, we'll put it that way. His counsel renewed a request for the trial court to find him incompetent. This is his lawyer trying to save him. He objected to his own lawyer.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, Lord.

[James Petregallo]

He said, you, Honor, objection. And they said, what the fuck? No, this is. You can't object to your own. You can't have emotion. And an objection from the same table. That can't happen.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What are you doing?

[James Petregallo]

Think about that. That's a ridiculous, like, bad comedy movie. That's what happened last day of trial. More repeated outbursts leading to his dismissal from the court. He asked the judge if he could be dismissed to his cell rather than sit there. The judge refused, so he flipped off the prosecutor and said, fuck you. Just like that. In closing, the prosecutor said, ladies and gentlemen, we've seen all the behavior and the actions of James Hutto during this trial. And I want to get one thing clear before we go any further. Nowhere in these instructions will you ever find an instruction by this court that you are to determine whether or not James Hutto is insane, no matter how crazy you think he is. He said, this is not a decision for you to make. That issue hasn't been raised at this trial, so it's not anything you need to consider when you go back to deliberate. Just fry his crazy ass is all he's saying. Two hours of deliberation, they find him guilty, okay? Now, during sentencing, he's got a prior violent felony, heinous or atrocious or cruel acts, beating an elderly woman to death, also during a robbery. His mitigation case was just basically that he was abused as a child. That's it. That's his whole mitigation. And this is for the death penalty. And they just. They brought a. They brought a woman out who was a social worker, Dr. Julie Schroeder, who had a bachelor's degree in psychology and a PhD in social work. So not a psychologist, essentially. And she tried to say that he was probably bipolar as well, because his mother was bipolar and he was abused. And they said that when. When Ethel touched him, he told her that it reminded him of the shit Faye would say to him, and he just lost it. It. Okay. The judge prohibits a PTSD diagnosis because she's not a psychologist. And specific treatment recommendations, again, because she's a social worker. His mom testifies for him. Really, the first time she's been there for him in his fucking life, and she's there. She said, his stepfather beat us both. I had cracked ribs, split lips, lost teeth. Jamie saw it all. I'm bipolar. I think Jamie is, too, but never diagnosed. His father told him he was a mistake, beat him so bad he missed two weeks of school. Then during the testimony about the sexual abuse of him as a child, he said, you, Honor, we don't have no further questions for the witness. She can be excused. And they tried to keep going. And he said, stop. I don't want this. Pass her to the prosecution. Pass her off, damn it. His attorney said, jamie, please. And he said, I'm ready for parchment. Take me to death row. Let's go.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Parchment.

[James Petregallo]

Parchment. No parchment. I think that's the.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What is that?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. That's probably the prison name. The jail that has the. Yeah. So the prosecution said Dr. Schroeder's not a psychiatrist, not a psychologist, just a social worker. No diagnosis for James Hutto. What's the nexus between abuse as a child and murdering an elderly woman you just met? There is no nexus. Victims of molestation don't lose their concept of right and wrong.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Correct.

[James Petregallo]

Fair enough. Less than an hour of deliberation for this jury comes back, you, sir, may fuck off. Death by lethal injection.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, that's something.

[James Petregallo]

He beat an old lady to death. Yeah. So he then turns to the prosecutor, gives her double middle fingers and says, fuck you, bitch. The judge says, Mr. Hutto. And he says, I don't have no respect for you or any of those sons of bitches in here, okay? He's gonna appeal on a bunch of legal things, basically that, you know, his first, he asked for a lawyer on his first interrogation, so the second one shouldn't have done this. And a bunch of very small ticky tack things which are important, but they have DNA. And he beat an old lady to death. You're going to fucking prison.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's in trouble for you.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. So he is currently in the Mississippi State Penitentiary in Parchment. So there you go. Death row, unit 29. He's on 23 hour a day lockdown. But they say his likelihood of actually being executed is extremely low.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Because they have 36 people on death row in Mississippi and they have no protocol for. They have no protocol for how to execute them. And they haven't executed anyone in 13 years because they don't have the drugs, they don't have the things, they don't know how to do it. So there's that. Now the Baptist healthplex now requires IDs for all non members and a buddy system is encouraged for seniors. And there's a sign that says, for your safety, please do not leave with anyone you don't know. Well, at the airport, where it says, don't take rides from non. Whatever the fuck, it's that thing. They also had neighborhood watch programs expand, which, which you could have had 100 neighborhood watches that wouldn't have helped this at all. Senior safety seminars, Church security teams formed and police presence increased at senior venues. So Ken Simpson, who is Aunt Faye's son, said, my mother died because she was kind. Oh, I'm sorry. This is Ethel's son, Ken. Said, my mother died because she was kind. We can't let kindness become a death sentence. They also in the legislature, enhance penalties for crimes against the elderly, mandatory reporting for suspected elder abuse. That's for doctors and hospitals and police. Funding for senior security center security cross training for adult protective services. And the Ethel Simpson foundation was established in 2014, which provides security equipment to senior centers, funds self defense classes for the elderly. 81. I don't know how much you're gonna defend yourself. You're made of crackers at that point.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Like you can't throw em, bite em, do them.

[James Petregallo]

You're made of saltine at that point. Yeah. Educates about predator tactics and has helped 47 facilities in Mississippi. Here's the other thing that we had to get to. Investigators believe there's a shitload more victims. This is not the first time he did this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. There's no way he did this first time.

[James Petregallo]

There's gaps in years of his history where they don't know what happened. There's references he made himself to several other murders in Alabama. The pattern suggests an escalation over time. So there's several unsolved cases being reviewed, including there's families still searching for three missing elderly women in Alabama between 2008 and 2010 that disappeared and two elderly in Mississippi missing from the same period.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Damn it.

[James Petregallo]

He's an old lady serial killer. Dude. This is disgusting. In 2025, his final appeal is denied by the US Supreme Court and legal battles appear exhausted. Although we don't know if he's ever gonna get executed. Inmate number 183663 and recently wrote into a magazine called jukejointmag.com what'd he say? He wrote like a big poem, kind of juke joint called Bumblebee in Paradise. Lil bumblebee, Lil bumblebee in paradise. Enjoying his domain and endless nectar, his whole world. He enjoys the nectar and all his hopes and dreams are becoming one of the beautiful flowers he gorges himself on every day. He's had many a brotha and sista bumblebees making the transition to become beautiful flowers gushing with nectar. And it goes on from there about these bees and all this weird shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's awful.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's weird. It's like one named Dauber. Whatever. And at the end it says James Cobb Hutto III was born in Jasper, Alabama. He's 52 years old now and he loves everybody. He's also in prison for killing multiple fucking women. So, old lady. So there you go. Very quickly, that's Edwards, Mississippi. Give us five stars on whatever app you're listening on. If you like the show, that helps a lot. Shut upandgivemerder.com is where you get all the stuff you need, especially tickets to Seattle in October. Oh yeah, social media. Instagram, MallTownMurder, Facebook, SmallTownPod patreon.com CrimeInSports $5 a month gets you so many bonus episodes. New ones every other week. Ad free for all the shows we do and a shout out at the end of the regular show. You want to hang out with us and talk to us on social media, go to shutupandgivememurder.com drop down menis take you where you need to go. Oh, until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye.

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