Family Murder Tree - Post Falls, Idaho

Summary

Small Town Murder: "Family Murder Tree – Post Falls, Idaho"

Podcast: Small Town Murder
Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Episode Date: July 24, 2026

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Main Theme:

This episode unpacks the staggering and convoluted criminal saga of the Loesch family from Post Falls, Idaho—a case that began as a straightforward murder but rapidly unraveled into a multi-layered web of suspicious deaths, greed, unanswered questions, and a wild cast of suspects. The hosts deliver their trademark blend of thorough research, dark humor, and genuine bewilderment as the twists mount, murders accumulate, and the fate of a missing child lingers over the entire story.

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Episode Breakdown

1. Setting the Stage – The Town of Post Falls, Idaho (03:13–11:19)

• Idaho's Panhandle: Post Falls is a growing, middle-of-nowhere town, pop. ~44,000. Low median household income ($38k), high housing prices.
• Town Vibes: Varied and sharply worded local reviews: welcoming “if you’re Mormon or grew up here,” but otherwise insular; some mention crime, vandalism, and a lack of police efficacy.
• Local Color: Hosts riff on the North Idaho State Fair—from “rabbit tattooing” to an endless parade of local country bands.
• Jimmie, deadpan (08:44): “Yeah, some untatted rabbits all over the place.”

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2. Unwrapping the Family Tree – Introducing the Loesch Family

(11:19–16:34)

• Gary Charles Loesch: Born 1939, Sacramento. Married Barbara (b. 1945). Children: Chuck (b. 1970) and Tina (b. 1971).
• The Move to Idaho: Family relocates from Sacramento to Spokane, then to Post Falls in 1986.
• Family Dynamics: Chuck’s the straight arrow; Tina’s the black sheep—drug abuse, legal trouble. Tina has a son, Christopher (b. 1991), whom Gary and Barbara help raise due to Tina’s instability.
• The Paper Route: Gary and Barbara deliver 300 newspapers daily as a side hustle; Gary’s main job is with an amusement company.

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3. Murder #1 – The Death of Gary Loesch

(16:55–29:51)

The Crime:

• Monday, Nov 13, 1995 (3:30 AM): Residents hear gunfire & screeching tires.
• 5:50 AM: Gary’s car found idling, lights on, window down in the rain, in the middle of the road.
• 7:00 AM: Police find Gary slumped over, shot in the head. Newspapers undelivered, no sign of robbery.

The Aftermath:

• Family Distraught: Chuck and Randy (Gary’s brother) stumble on the crime scene while retracing Gary’s route.
• No Motive or Suspects: No enemies, no cash on carriers.
• Odd Evidence: Discarded cigarette butts—DNA shows they belonged to a woman.
• Quote – Police detective (28:11):
  “The lack of evidence has been the big problem with the investigation… What’s really tough is trying to find out who did it.”
• Host Jimmie, lampooning (28:04):
  “If we got overwhelming amounts of evidence and you couldn’t solve it, we might have some more questions, but this makes a lot of sense.”

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4. Murder #2 – The Death of Barbara Loesch

(29:51–36:30)

Discovery:

• Jan 11, 1998: Barbara hasn’t been heard from. Randy and wife check her house, find door open, call police.
• Police Find: Barbara’s decomposed body floating face down in the family hot tub, with a TV submerged (but not plugged in). No visible injuries.
• Cause of Death: Deemed “undetermined,” possibly accidental drowning; but suspicious.
• Suspicion: Randy—debts to Barbara wiped out by her death, but lack of evidence stalls the case.
• Barbara’s Generosity: She was giving large sums to both Randy and Tina, especially after Gary’s death.

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5. Big Red Flags – The Trouble with Tina

(36:30–39:07)

• Tina Avoids Police Interviews: Always reschedules, eventually lawyers up.
• Generosity to Tina: Barbara had loaned Tina over $100,000, supposedly to start a business as Tina grows closer after Gary’s death.
• Quote – Chuck (35:45):
  “When I found out my sister refused interviews, that threw up big red flags for me that she may have been involved.”

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6. Enter Skye Hansen – An Accomplice & Catalyst

(39:07–44:23)

• Tina’s New Friend: Skye is a dominant, influential ex-meth cook with property and a criminal record. They met in prison.
• Business Scheme: Tina and Skye co-found a home renovation business, funded by Barbara’s money.
• Gary’s Distrust: Gary disapproved, cutting Tina out of his will.
• Barbara’s Life Insurance: $530,000 policy, Tina as sole beneficiary—payout only if death is accidental or natural.

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7. The Domino Effect – The Old Lady & The Gentleman Robber

(44:23–48:02)

• New Linked Murder: Anita Steckman claims her ex-husband, Bradley Steckman (“The Gentleman Robber”), tells police he killed 89-year-old Dorothy Martin in Pullman, WA (1996) at Skye’s behest for a $30,000 diamond ring.
• Bradley Steckman/Burglary: Convicted killer and career thief, admits to killing Martin during a robbery after failing to simply grab the ring from the elderly victim.

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8. The Confessions Unravel – The Plot Against the Loesch Parents

(48:02–54:30)

Steckman’s Admissions:

• Barbara’s Death: Steckman claims he, Tina, and Skye planned her murder for the life insurance. She was electrocuted (after “salting” the hot tub and bypassing the TV’s circuit breaker with a pencil), then drowned by Tina. He was promised a $10,000 cut—never paid.

• Gary’s Death: Steckman cased Gary’s paper route for Sky and Tina, identifying the best place for a hit, but denies being present for the actual murder.

• Female DNA: Connects to Skye and/or Tina.

• Quote – Host James (50:16):
  “This is diabolical.”

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9. The Gruesome Endgame – Sky and Tina on the Run, and Disappearance of Christopher

(54:30–63:58)

Disappearance:

• Sky and Tina: Take off with Christopher, living under aliases, selling properties, evading law enforcement for years.
• Christopher’s Fate: Last documented in Spokane elementary school as “Christopher Robinson.” Later claims Tina “sent him to live with his father,” but authorities and family don’t know who or where that is.
• Suspicion: Cadaver dogs hit at their Tucson property, but no body found.
• Quote – Detective (64:12): “They had that fucking kid buried in that garage for a long time and then moved a long time. OK. So…what happened to Christopher? To this day, we don't know.”

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10. The End of the Line – Murder-Suicide

(63:58–66:34)

• America’s Most Wanted Segment (Nov 15, 2008):
  After a TV segment on the case, a tip leads police to a vehicle near Tucson. Inside: Sky and Tina, dead from gunshot wounds (murder-suicide) with an eight-page suicide note expressing regret, but no mention of Christopher. Their belongings: ready for flight, hundreds of dryer sheets laid out (to mask odor?).
• Quote – Host Jimmie (66:03): “No one’s gonna answer [questions now]. No, they’re not talking right now.”

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11. Lingering Questions, Aftermath & Final Thoughts

(66:34–70:00+)

• Status:
  • The parents (Barbara & Gary) – confirmed murdered.
  • Dorothy Martin (the ring) – confirmed murdered by Steckman.
  • Skye & Tina – dead by suicide pact, confessed via letter.
  • Christopher – still missing, presumed dead.
• Chuck & Family: Searching for answers, especially about Christopher.
• Hosts’ Take:
  • James: “You could certainly tell your family that, like when the dog dies... Belize is doggy heaven for this kid.”
  • Jimmie: “How terrible of a person do you got to be to value your mother's life at 530 grand?”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Post Falls Crime:
  James (06:43): “How dare you be stuck up. You broke f**ks, you got no money.”
• On Paper Route Murders:
  Jimmie (25:33): “A 13-year-old girl was murdered after she disappeared from her paper route. And we know what that's about. Has nothing to do with newspapers. Somebody just knew where to collect a 13-year-old girl early in the morning.”
• On Detectives:
  James (28:00): “Really? What's really tough is trying to find out who did it.”
  Jimmie: “It's a good thing you're a cop.”
• On The Murders’ Planning:
  James (51:30): “That is f**king diabolical. And to plan all this out ahead. Wow…”
• On Sky’s Influence:
  James (53:00): “Sky is a bad bitch, man. Horrible.”
• On Unsolved Mysteries:
  James (64:12): “They had that f**king kid buried in that garage for a long time and then moved a long time. Okay. So...what happened to Christopher? To this day, we don't know.”
• On Closure:
  Laura Loesch (56:16): “We're ecstatic. This is closure for part of the it. We knew this in the back of our minds that she was murdered, but it wasn't in your face like it was with Gary.”

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Key Timestamps

• 03:13 – Introduction of Post Falls, local color
• 11:19 – Family background: Gary, Barbara, Chuck, Tina
• 16:55 – Gary’s murder and crime scene
• 29:51 – Discovery of Barbara’s body
• 39:07 – Introduction of Skye Hansen
• 48:02 – New murder link (Dorothy Martin)
• 50:16 – Steckman’s confession to Barbara’s murder
• 54:30 – Sky and Tina disappear with Christopher
• 63:58 – America's Most Wanted airs, murder-suicide in Tucson
• 66:34 – Aftermath & open questions about Christopher

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode drives home the bleak absurdity of small-town crime spiraling out of control—laced with dark, irreverent wit but deep empathy for the innocent caught in this cascade of betrayal and murder. The hosts are both aghast and incredulous at the twists, providing comedic relief with their incredulity at police statements and “criminal masterminding” by deeply incompetent people.

Lingering Questions:

• Where is Christopher?
• Was Tina involved in her father's murder?
• Will there ever be closure for the remaining family?

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If you crave a true-crime story where each answer only begets more questions—and want two comedians along for the twisted ride—this episode delivers in spades.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small Town Murder Express.

[B]

Yay. And choo choo.

[A]

Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host, Jimmy Woody.

[B]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[A]

Thank you, folks so much for joining us today on another crazy story. This is a wild story. It looked like a little thread sticking out and then you pull it and an entire jacket comes, a parka comes out of there. You're like, what the hell just happened? It's the craziest story.

[B]

Just in time for summer.

[A]

Can't wait to get into it. We will get into that in just one moment. All aboard the murder train pulling away from the station here. One quick thing here. Top of the show stuff. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Hey, head there right now. Get your tickets for live shows. It's a great place to be. Like Jimmy said here. September 18th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. Not a lot of tickets left for that one. So if you want to go to that, definitely get it out. Hurry up. September 19th in Minneapolis, the state theater. Get your tickets right now for that one as well. We're excited. We love Minneapolis, so we cannot wait. Do that. Get Milwaukee. And then there's also Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown, and Boston. So get your tickets now. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Listen to the other shows that we do, which is crime and sports, which is hilarious, I promise. You do not have to like sports. You just have to like comedy and crazy stories and then your stupid opinions where we hear people's reviews of places that we don't care about. And it's a lot of fun, hilarious show. So check those out. Then get yourself patreon. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. All you have to be is $5 a month or above. And you get everything we put out, including soon as you subscribe, you get almost 400 back bonus episodes you've never heard before. Big binge on those. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder, and you get them all. Everybody.

[B]

Do what?

[A]

Do what? That is from our last Patreon Small Town Murder, which was maternal instinct. And that was the man's reaction to your girlfriend did all these things and killed a woman and cut a baby out and everything. He said, do what? So maternal instinct is what we're doing for small town murder and then for crime and sports, Kirby Puckett. Yeah, yeah. Lovable, cherubic Guy.

[B]

He's an amazing young man.

[A]

Did some strange things there. So get that. Patreon.com CrimeInSports. And in addition to all of that, you also get everything we put out. Crime and sports, Your stupid opinions. Both episodes of Small Town Murder. All ad free.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Ad free. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy will mispronounce your name, but he'll feel bad about it and want it to be correct. So. Yeah, that's good. That's right. I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say? Here we go. Clear the lungs. There you go. Arms to the sky, everybody. And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah, let's do it. We're going to Idaho this week. Fucking hasn't been too, too long since we were in Idaho. But like I said, the way it worked out. Boy, is this a wild case. This is Post Falls, Idaho. Two words. Post Falls, Northwestern Idaho. Panhandle.

[B]

Action.

[A]

This is Idaho Panhandle. Up. There it is.

[B]

Is there falls?

[A]

I have no idea. It's Post Falls. They call it that. Maybe it's because there's no more falls. It's Post Falls. Years and years ago. They're gone. It's gone now. Northwestern, like we said. Fifteen minutes to Coeur d'. Alene. About eight and a half hours to Jerome, Idaho. Our last Idaho episode. Episode 679, Murder Colors Don't Run. That's funny. That was a wild episode. This is in. And I don't think I've ever said this county name right. Kootenai County. It's gonna be Native, Something like that. Yeah. K O O T E N I I. Okay. Area code 208 and 986. Population of this town, about 44,000.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's grown a lot recently too. In the last 10 years. Median household income here pretty low for median household income. $38,162 a year. That's about $30,000 less than the national average.

[B]

Almost half.

[A]

That's not good. And that doesn't help that the is 457,200 bucks. So it is expensive.

[B]

Dare.

[A]

Apparently not easy to make money here. So that's tough. A little bit of history real quick. Just mainly the name. Post Falls is named after Frederick Post. I figured it was because there was like a postal outlet there or something. It's in the middle of nowhere. No, no, no. It's a German guy, an immigrant who constructed a lumber mill along the spokane river in 1871 on land that he purchased from the chief of the Coeur d' Alene tribe.

[B]

What a guy.

[A]

Did it the right way. Anyway, the purchase of the land is preserved in a pictograph on a granite cliff in Treaty Rock Park. There's this whole display of like, oh, handing over the deed. It's crazy.

[B]

Somebody drew it.

[A]

Somebody made it. Yeah. It's interesting. Reviews of this town. They should have made a little diorama. That would have been nice. Like a shoebox diorama.

[B]

Yeah. Little guy in an Adidas box.

[A]

Yeah, it would have been fun. Puma, maybe, Whatever. Reviews of this town. Something. Yeah. Here's five stars here. Okay. I love the mountains and the easy access to the wilderness. There are plenty of restaurants in the area and lots of things to do around town. People are generally nice.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

Wow. I disagree with that last sentiment wholeheartedly. But maybe in this town, I don't know. General in general, no good. Three stars here. Really pretty scenery. But the town doesn't like you unless you're Mormon or you've grown up your whole life here. That sounds probably correct.

[B]

The town is. Yeah.

[A]

The town itself will reject you. The land. Also. The place does not know how to forgive anybody. Forget. The place doesn't forgive, sir. What did you do? What did you move here and then do? That's the thing. You moved here fucked up and now you want everybody, strangers, to forgive you. For some reason, this place does not know how to forgive anybody and is really stuck up. Terrible place to raise a family. Okay, well, if that's true, how dare

[B]

you be stuck up. You broke fox. You got no money.

[A]

What are you talking about? Two stars. I live where tires have been slashed and vehicles are vandalized and the police do nothing about it.

[B]

They can't.

[A]

Nothing. Well, don't worry. They don't do much about murder too, as we'll find out. That's all right. That's the least of your concerns. Here's one star. Finally here. And this is extremely specific, I think, to this person's experience. I would say, quote, there are always loud neighbors that like to scream and yell at other neighbors. Always the whole town. Or your neighbors suck. Which ones? It has gotten to the point where I want to move. Oh, boy. Neighbors have driven you out.

[B]

Here's the good news. You're allowed.

[A]

There it is. I'm sure plenty of people run screaming from here, so. Sure. There's just as good a beaten path out of this place as there is into it. Next up, things to do. The North Idaho State Fair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, baby, here we go.

[B]

Idaho does a fair. Like nobody, though.

[A]

They do a lot. I found some interesting activities that are going on before we get to the music that happens. But there's an open horse show, so. Open. Open for any horses. We open the horse from the plane, see what's inside, see what makes them tick a little bit. You know what I mean? There's also poultry testing. And then it says mandatory next to that. Livestock and education programs, youth show and stock sale. But there's testing. Then at 4pm you gotta help me with this rabbit tattooing. Oh, why are we tattooing rabbits so well? Are they douchebags? Do they want just like a tribal around their legs? Like a douchebag from 1990? What are they looking for here? These rabbits?

[B]

Fine line. Are we talking about some traditional. What are we doing?

[A]

What are we doing? Exactly. That's what I'm saying. I want that. Is it like a tribal thing? What are we talking about?

[B]

You know, I wonder if it's for the cause, because you have to. People tattoo their lives like it's like a branding. Maybe they tattoo.

[A]

Get your rabbit, you tattoo your rabbits. They're this fucking big. What's the difference? And they reproduce like crazy. Do we need to tattoo them, really?

[B]

Yeah. Some untatted rats, rabbits all over the place.

[A]

Well, you brand your livestock, so if they get away, people know where they're from. Is someone gonna pick up a rabbit and return it to you? Probably from 10 miles away. I don't see that happening.

[B]

It's a Circle J tattoo.

[A]

Oh, man. For music, we got the June Bugs, the Second Hand Band.

[B]

Uh.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

It's getting worse.

[A]

Porter Combs. Wonder what he sings.

[B]

Yeah, Luke's little brother.

[A]

Yeah, the real McCoy. He's the one. He's the real McCoy.

[B]

Just one.

[A]

Just him. Music on the mid. Oh, that's June Bugs again. Tanya Lowe, which sounds like a country act. Anthony Ray, to keep up the tradition of country acts with three letter last names. Jack Conrad. Okay. Mystic Mountain Music. Oh, and Lake Town Sound. Oh, also Funshine will be there.

[B]

Oh, Funshine.

[A]

Oh, Funshine's gonna be there.

[B]

Jaycee and the Funshine Band.

[A]

Funshine Band. Mel Dalton Band is gonna be there. Valerie Jean, G E A N, N E. Redheaded country singer is the way I picture that.

[B]

For some reason, I don't like this at all.

[A]

This is so bad. Midnight Juliet, Riley Anderson. Then the real McCoy again. AP Collective.

[B]

How much country can you fucking listen to?

[A]

And the Hankers, not the Yankers, not the Crankers, the Hankers, they just sing Williams.

[B]

Williams.

[A]

Shit. Yeah. Ethereal. And E. Rusty Jackson. Wonder what he sings. Rusty Jackson. That's nothing. Courtney and company, John DeLong, Catahoula mix, and that's it. So there you go. Catahoula mix, which is what my brother's dog is, I believe.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

He's a Catahoula mix. That's exactly what they called him. That said, let's talk about some shitload of murder. That's just. This is a murder Onion this whole episode.

[B]

Yeah. They got as much murder as they got country music at the stakes.

[A]

So much. Yeah, they have to equal it. That's the county law. You have to have equal parts murder and country singers at the fair.

[B]

At the end of that show, you would just throw up.

[A]

Absolutely. I would hope so.

[B]

Damn it.

[A]

I wouldn't make it to the end of the show, I'll tell you that much. It wouldn't take that long. I'd look at it and go, well, that's not good.

[B]

By the third act, I'd be nauseated.

[A]

Totally. Now, this story here started out as one murder that I thought. And then as you go into it, you find out that is not even close to the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more going on here, and even something that we don't even know is cleared up yet. It's the craziest fucking story. So let's get into it. Let's talk about a man, first of all, Gary Charles Loesch. L, O, E, S, H or I'm sorry. L, O, E, S, C, H. Born October 3, 1939. He is from Sacramento. Father, Charles, mother, Myrtle. He's got brothers named Randy and Wayne. Randy. Keep that in mind, because we'll talk to Randy quite a bit over the course of this show. Don't know when or. I think it was in the mid-60s. At some point, not sure if he was in Vietnam or what. But he was in the Air Force at some point. Might have been early 60s, before Vietnam. Because he's born in 39, not sure, but he's in the Air Force. In 1969, he gets married. He gets. So he's 30 at that point, gets married to Barbara Dean Stultz. S, T, U, L, T, Z. Barbara Dean Stultz. And she is born April 7, 1945. So about six years younger. And so she's 24 at the time. She's also from Sacramento. They live in Sacramento at the time. And that's where they meet and marry and everything like that. They're going to have a couple of Kids in 1970. They have a son named Chuck Charles. Everyone calls him chuck. And then November 6, 1971, they have a daughter named Tina Rose. Okay, not Rose is her middle name. They don't call her Tina Rose. They don't call her. It's just Tina. But now they ended up moving around a little bit. They moved from California to spokane, Washington in 1979.

[B]

Not a bad move.

[A]

Lived there for a while where Gary was a member of. He was in a bunch of clubs. He's a member of the Elk, what is it? The Masonic Blue Lodge in Elk Grove, California. He's a Shriner and a member of the Scottish Rite of Spokane.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

So he's in all these clubs and he's got like four silly hats he has to wear to different meetings. It's what it sounds like. So they settle in post falls in 1986. So their kids are 15 and 16 and that's how it goes. And their kids are much different. Chuck is pretty straight arrow kind of a guy. Tina runs with the wrong crowd, is kind of a fuck up, is a little bit of a tear away, hard to handle.

[B]

Tina is interesting to go from Sacramento and then just keep trying to find smaller places.

[A]

Yeah, every few years downsize your town a little bit. In 1991, they have a grandchild. Tina has a son. Like we said, she's not that reliable here and stuff. So she has a son named Christopher with a K. Remember him because he's a big part of the story. Okay, June 1992, Gary and Barbara begin doing a newspaper route. Apparently, I don't know if she helps sort and he does the delivering or whatever, but he. And then later on his brother Randy will join him at another route. From their car they deliver like hundreds and hundreds of newspapers which back in the day you could actually make decent money in the morning doing that because it would be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of. Everybody got the paperback.

[B]

It's volume.

[A]

It's volume. So you make decent money. They do the same route every day. He goes out.

[B]

That's an interesting job because that one didn't have much forethought or forecasting seeing how fast that was going to go away because it literally.

[A]

Oh no one, literally hundreds of years. But yeah, not only that, the printers, the reporters, the editor, everybody. Yeah, everybody went. So now he began. This is June 1992. They distributed about 300 newspapers a day, him and his wife. It's a good amount. He also helped deliver on the weekends. And that's his second job. His main job, he works for Dilly Amusement Company for the last 10 years. So pretty much since they got to town. Now, Tina in the early 90s here, their one daughter, who has the son Christopher, she ends up in and out of jail for a bunch of shit. Check frauds and frauds and thefts.

[B]

In Idaho.

[A]

In Idaho, yeah. Bunch of these kind of petty things that add up to get you jail time. So parents here, Gary and Barbara, end up taking care of Christopher quite often in the mid-90s and early 90s because Tina's in and out of jail and they have a stable environment. So they're there. September 1995, Gary helps his brother Randy move to the area and gets him a job delivering papers on the route next to his. It's like the next route over. So, yeah. So they hadn't lived near each other for 25 years, the two brothers. And Randy said, we always talked about me coming up here and getting together and building a house together. We were gonna try to be a family again. So it seems like they've maybe been estranged a little bit and they're trying to get their shit together, mend some fences and. Yeah, I mean, you're, you know, 50 years old. Get it together in your 50s. Get along.

[B]

I'll never talk to my sister again.

[A]

No. I have a brother I'm not really talking to much about.

[B]

I'm never gonna fucking mend that fence.

[A]

Oh, I understand. We both have fences with wildlife just streaming through them. Just buffalo.

[B]

I just wave to them.

[A]

It's wide open, too. I'm like, well, you know where it's open if you want to come back. I don't know what to tell you.

[B]

I'm all out of nails.

[A]

That's it. I got nothing. I can't fix that fence. Mad at Shane Link, babe, I'm done. So Monday morning, November 13, 1995. All right, 3:30am Gary is out delivering his papers, which right away, that is an awful job. Awful.

[B]

Just a terrible time to be awake.

[A]

Fucking awful. Now at 3:30am nearby residents on his route think they hear gunfire. A guy named Russ Greenfield said he and his girlfriend were startled awake at about 3:30am by what they thought was gunshot. They heard big booms. They're loud and nearby.

[B]

Well, this part of Idaho can identify gunfire.

[A]

They know gunfire, and it's common, too. That's the other thing. So they, you know, it's somewhere within, like, a block. They figure it sounded real, real loud. They looked out of their trailer window but didn't see anything. That's the other thing. In a trailer, everything's lo on the outside. It's basically like if you make two tin cans and make a phone out of it, a trailer is one of them, and it's a string to the world.

[B]

And flick it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

See how that sounds?

[A]

It's a string to the world is what it is. That's it. So now they looked out. They didn't see anything. However, Greenfield said, we heard a car leave here at a high rate of speed. We could hear the gravel spinning. So they hear a big boom and then a car. Terrass. And they go back to sleep. They looked out the window, went. I don't know, and then went back to sleep, which, okay, none of my business.

[B]

He's already gone because he was going real fast.

[A]

Yeah, it must have been. That's it. So then they got up at 5:50am they woke up, and as they drank their morning coffee, they noticed a car parked in the middle of the road out there about a block away. Car parked in the middle of the road. And it's Gary's car, the newspaper guy. They know, the paper guy's car. The lights are on. The driver's side window is rolled down. But it's raining outside. So who the fuck is sitting in the middle of the road with their window down in the rain? That's a strange thing. So Greenfield, clearly alarmed as fuck, waits an hour. So 3:30, gunshot, car tearing out. Go back to sleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Look out there, huh? Car sitting in the middle of the road near where I heard that gunshot. Window down in the rain. I'll wait. I'll give it an hour, see how it goes.

[B]

That's indicative of their daily motivation. This is why you make half the national average in salary.

[A]

No shit. Talk about. I mean, I'm all for being laid back, you know, but I'm a stoner. But this is crazy. Like, this is a work, man, do something. So then he became more suspicious because the car battery started dying and the lights started dimming.

[B]

Oh, so it's the. Yeah, the ignition is not running.

[A]

So he said, quote, this is what he said at 6:50am this started at 3:30 in the morning. By 6:50, he said, I thought, this isn't right, and I called the police.

[B]

Something's right.

[A]

You can't get anything past this guy. Boy, he is a fucking. He is smooth. He ain't getting nothing past Him. And at the same time, people, the newspaper's getting complaints from like 5am on that their newspaper didn't come, people didn't get their newspaper. Which if you have any job where if someone doesn't get what they need by 5:10, they're on the phone with you. That's a terrible job. Awful. Imagine getting complaints at 5:10 in the morning. You'd be like, dude, fuck you. Are you out of your. I just woke up. Fuck you. You'd be hanging up, shut up. Fuck off. You'd be losing your mind. Oh, you didn't get your 18 cent paper. What's the fuck paper cost back then?

[B]

That's a quarter, right?

[A]

And that's at the newsstand. If you get a subscription, it's cheaper. You're paying like 12 cents a paper. Shut the fuck up. Be amazed when it arrives at 3:30 in the morning because that's incredible that a human left their house to deliver something for 11 cents to you in the middle of the night. Do you understand how crazy that is?

[B]

I mean they're still delivering mail for 50 cents.

[A]

That's what I mean.

[B]

Send a letter from LA to New York.

[A]

We've talked about this. And people complain. It's like it cost you 50 cents.

[B]

It's fucking magic.

[A]

You know how much it would take you to take that somewhere? Forget about it, it's not happening.

[B]

Mind blowing.

[A]

Mind blowing. So the guy Marshall is the guy who runs the newspaper delivery thing. And he said, you know, it was crazy that he was getting complaints. He said Gary's always on time, quote, he's a perfectionist. I don't think he's ever missed anybody. Yeah, so he's the good leader. That's right. So he's the perfect representation of that. So the police arrive and they find Gary dead in his car.

[B]

Oh no.

[A]

Dead in the still park next to the paper boxes about 7am where he was about to deliver papers to. There are two stacks of newspapers, undisturbed in the backseat of his Toyota Camry. And blood is pooled in the front passenger seat where he slumped over. Slumped over after he's been shot in the head. Looks like one gunshot. He just drove. Apparently they reconstructed it. He drove down, it's a tree lined gravel road. He stopped, rolled his car window down, shoved newspapers into the two boxes right there. And before he got to the third one, apparently he got killed. Now I like how, you know, people in the houses came out while they were working the crime scene and was like, can I just get my paper? Can I Just, could you. If you just. That one's mine. Is it evidence? Probably not, right? Just hand it. Pull it out of the box.

[B]

Is there any blood on it? Can I have that?

[A]

I don't know. The paper guy. I'm sorry. I mean, it's tragic, I understand, but. I don't know.

[B]

Horrible.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Did they already hire a new guy for tomorrow?

[A]

I will get it tomorrow, right? Should I call. I'll call. I'll call them. You got. You know what? You guys do your thing. You guys go back to. Go back to what you're doing. I'm sorry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you know. So this is. He's been delivering on the same route for three and a half years. The bullet right in the head, it gets him. No weapon is found at the scene. There's no signs of a struggle. No indication that he's been robbed either. There's no robbery here.

[B]

Murder was the reason.

[A]

It looks like murder. It's about halfway through his route. It was in a neighborhood just off Ohio Match Road. So while the cops are working the crime scene, about 8am Randy and Chuck pull up to the scene with the cops processing it. The brother and his son. His brother and his son, Randy and Chuck. So Randy said he was worried. He said, quote, he told me he'd be back by 5:30. And it was 8am and I got no phone call or nothing. So they pull up Chuck's 25 at this point and. And they pull up to the crime scene tape. I mean, it's right there. So his brother and another carrier for the Spokesman Review, that's the newspaper he was working for, said that Gary is carrying no money and has no enemies. It's not like these guys collect the money. They send checks to the newspaper. So this guy said, the brother said, it's senseless. You couldn't ask for a better person. The guy who was the circulation district manager at the paper said he was a good friend. Beside working with him, he said he was just a good person. And Randy said he knew everybody along the way and got along with everybody. So it doesn't make sense. And again, a newspaper is not a reason to shoot somebody. He's been throwing your paper in the bush instead of on the porch. So you're gonna murder the guy.

[B]

It's not his fault. The NASDAQ is where it's at.

[A]

I didn't do it.

[B]

Cause all that information, you've been there, remember, don't shoot.

[A]

The messenger couldn't be more apt to. This situation. I didn't write any of this shit. I didn't even read it. I just handed it to you. So does it happen a lot? They're wondering here? They said not really because the carriers don't carry any cash. So they don't really. They don't collect anything, so it doesn't make sense. They said they employ 125 carriers in the Coeur d' Alene Sandpoint area. Almost all of them are adults. And they said this is the first time that an Idaho carrier has been hurt by anybody. Two Spokane delivery carriers were killed in the past. A 32 year old was beaten to death in 1987. In 76, a 13 year old girl was murdered after she disappeared from her paper route. And we know what that's about. Has nothing to do with newspapers. Somebody just knew where to collect a 13 year old girl early in the morning.

[B]

On her bike.

[A]

On her bike. So the circulation guy said, you can't predict a thing like this. I think it was a random act of violence. He must have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Random act. Their paper does offer a $5,000 reward for the capture.

[B]

Oh, that's nice.

[A]

This is not the murder that we were even talking about today, by the way. This is just a subsequent side murder. Okay. That has to wraps in. Now the suspects right away are Chuck and Randy.

[B]

Because they knew where to go.

[A]

They went right to the spot.

[B]

Yeah. Now Randy knows his route. If you drive his route, you're gonna find him.

[A]

He said, I know his route and I just went on his route. It's what he said. He goes, I just happened to come across where you guys were. If you were in another neighborhood, I would have found you there. But they said it's weird that you, you know, the cops were only there about a half hour and you pull up, it seems like you knew ahead of time. And he said no. And Chuck claimed in an interview there's a show called Accident, Suicide or Murder that talked about a couple of these cases we're gonna talk about in here. And Chuck did a interview with them and he said, we knew the root well and we're worried about my dad. So we went looking for him. And so they found discarded cigarette butts at the crime scene. Like someone was smoking, waiting for him. Like Omar, like fucking Omar from the Wire. Like staking somebody out in Newports.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They found a pile of cigarette butts at the crime scene. And they said, well, that's certainly connected here. Because they asked the neighbors, does anyone stand here and smoke? And they all said, so that's a thing. Turns out the DNA on the cigarette butts is from a woman.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So Chuck and Randy immediately ruled out and the whole thing is thrown into a hole because they're like, what the fuck woman would stalk a paper guy and shoot him? That's crazy.

[B]

This is wild.

[A]

This is wild already. And the crazy parts haven't even happened yet. Okay, so February 96th, Chuck gets married. He was working as an inside salesman at the Coeur d' Alene Napa auto parts store at the time, so good for him. Randy said, the last time I talked with the detective, they told me they were grabbing at straws. They had no evidence. Not grasping, grabbing. He said, yeah. One of the detectives said, we're still investigating. I'd like to be able to tell you we're in throes of an arrest, but we're not. They said, the big part. This is amazing. The lack of evidence has been the big problem with the investigation.

[B]

Is that what it is?

[A]

Really?

[B]

Really.

[A]

What the fuck else would hinder it

[B]

if we got overwhelming amounts of evidence and you couldn't solve it? We might have some more questions, but this makes a lot of sense. Sure.

[A]

You think that's the most obvious thing a human being can say, especially one with a badge. This guy. The next sentence he said to a newspaper reporter is amazing. What's really tough is trying to find out who did it.

[B]

Yeah, well, it's a good thing you're a cop.

[A]

It's a good thing they're paying you fucking 50 grand a year or whatever you're getting paid for this. You know what I mean? It's a good thing this is a job. Then it's not just volunteers from around the neighborhood. Because it sounds different.

[B]

Feels like he should be the inside salesman at the Napa.

[A]

Right. It's amazing. And Randy Loesch said not knowing why, not knowing who. The basic not knowing is frustrating. And he also said, it's always going to be with us. The not knowing is the irritating thing. There's so little to go on now. Randy said the family has come together since the murder, and they stopped delivering newspapers as well.

[B]

The whole family. We're done.

[A]

We're done, he said. We're all scared. We're jumping at shadows. We don't want to go anywhere alone because this is so random. They're scared, he said, it's just so strange. It's beyond belief. It's just a strange situation. So four months later in March, they still don't have any leads. Barbara Gary's wife and Chuck and Tina's mom said, we're at our wit's end. He said, we just don't know. She doesn't know what's going on. So Barbara is forced to just go on with her life. With no resolution to her husband's murder, she goes on. She was never a suspect. Despite the female DNA, she was home and not a suspect. January 11, 1998. So two and a half years later, Barbara hasn't been heard from in about three days by anybody.

[B]

Barb's not around.

[A]

Now Barb's gone. So Randy and his wife decide to go check on her. After what happened with your brother, I'd be done checking on anybody.

[B]

First of all, I'm not checking shit.

[A]

Not checking anything. Now, they said she has a history of depression, so they wanted to check on her, make sure she was okay, especially since her husband's been murdered and no one's found who did it. Randy noticed that the back door to her house was open while he and his wife Laura stopped by, which set off alarm bells. They backed away and called the police.

[B]

Yeah, that's good enough.

[A]

This is weird. I'm done cashing out. So Randy calls the cops, asks for a welfare check. Scott Haig Haug, a patrol sergeant, said, when someone's asking for a welfare check at that home, the hair on the back of your neck goes up a little bit.

[B]

It.

[A]

Okay. So they said. A detective arrives, and they said Randy basically did not want to go into the house until I went in with him. There was something that was just not sitting right with me at that point. All right, they canvass the house, they go inside. They don't really find anything. Then they make their way to the back porch. And this is what the detective said. Quote, when we look down the steps, you could see Barbara floating in the hot tub down there. And not like, leisurely, like, waving, going. Make yourself. Grab yourself a margarita from the. None of that. She's floating face down.

[B]

Uh oh.

[A]

And very much not alive. Her body is found not only in the hot tub, but there's also a large TV in the hot tub as well. In the hot tub, submerged in the water. Okay, so at first they thought it was an electrocution. Maybe she had the TV perched up on the edge. It fell in. Tragic accident. The cop said she looked like she had been in that hot tub for several days. It was one of the worst death scenes I have ever experienced.

[B]

Dang. It's a Barbara soup.

[A]

Yeah, in water. It's gonna swell. It's Gonna be gross. That's bad. They said the TV in the hot tub obviously raised more questions. They said, did she accidentally knock the TV into the water and was electrocuted? Who knows?

[B]

Yeah, and that seems like something, but there's things called circuit breakers. 1996 has those.

[A]

Oh, we'll get into it. Don't you worry, son. Yeah, it's coming. All right, so the autopsy. Considering her depression, they didn't know if maybe she did it on purpose.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So Barbara's body is too decomposed for a toxicology test. And there's no obvious injuries or marks on her at all. She hasn't been beaten or anything like that.

[B]

Has it been bubbling the whole time, too?

[A]

Oh, it's on.

[B]

Oh, my God. That's terrible.

[A]

100 degree water. 100. You know, 3 degree water. The medical examiner concluded the cause of death was undetermined. And that suggested. And suggested it was a possible accidental drowning.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. Now when they look around and do a little investigation, they find out the TV was plugged into a 25 foot extension cord that came from the garage. But they noticed one thing that was strange. The cord wasn't plugged in. The TV's not plugged in.

[B]

Yeah. That doesn't do anything.

[A]

No. So Barbara, they said, had other medical issues. Maybe she had a health emergency and died before she could plug the TV in. But then why would she be in the hot. Who gets in the hot tub, sits there, and then gets out and goes and plugs the TV in? It doesn't make sense. And then it's weird. So they said, or maybe someone else was there and unplugged it after it went in the water. Who knows? But again, Randy's suspicious behavior, as the cops put it, puts him in. He is their guy to look at. He's there. And also, they were a little suspicious of him from Gary's death. So now they're like, it's the second

[B]

time he's happened upon a body.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. Of someone very close to him.

[B]

Relative. Yeah.

[A]

Randy adamantly denies that he has anything to do with this. Here. Now, one of the detectives said after Gary's death, Barbara was the beneficiary of a decent sum of money. What happened to that money? They said they looked into it and found out that Randy had borrowed a pretty significant sum of money from Barbara. And so the detectives said his debt would have been wiped clean with Barbara gone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So they looked at him even more. Now both Gary and Barbara's detective teams team up because they're like, maybe These are connected. We should probably talk about it. It's rare to have two people murdered less than three years apart that were married by completely different persons, husband and

[B]

wife murdered three years apart, and not be connected. That's very rare.

[A]

It's real weird. So they cast a big net. One person keeps popping up in their radar that they can't really lock down, and that's Tina, the daughter. Okay. Tina has had a lot of troubles. Obviously at this point, she's been in and out of jail for check fraud and everything like that. Now, she was evading a formal questioning session about Barbara's murder.

[B]

She didn't talk to her?

[A]

No. They said she kept rescheduling her interview and eventually just got a lawyer, which someone who's in and out of jail might do. They generally don't like talking to the cops. And they realize they've probably said some shit that's gotten them in trouble before and realize you don't talk to anybody without a fucking lawyer anymore once you're in the criminal justice system for a while. But the cops said, why would she have anything to hide? Which is also a good question. Chuck, said the brother. You know, Barbara and Gary's son. When I found out my sister refused interviews, that threw up big red flags for me that she may have been involved. After my mother passed away, my sister Tina did show up at the house for a brief period of time. From what I remember, she was sad but indifferent.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. They also find out that Tina's been borrowing a lot of money.

[B]

Uh oh.

[A]

Since Barbara got the insurance settlement from her husband, she's been in pretty shitty shape financially. She's described as kind, patient, and generous to a fault with friends and family. Chuck said, to the point where she was broke herself. She loaned money to Randy, but not nearly as much as she has been loaning to Tina. Tina's been the big beneficiary, they said. After Gary's death, it appeared Tina was trying to become close to her mother again. It was just purely money from what we found. The cop said Tina started to get closer to her mother and talk to her about getting this life insurance policy for the benefit of her children or child at the time.

[B]

Oh, life insurance on Mom.

[A]

On Mom. In case you die. Then at least we're taken care of. During that period, Barbara had given TINA well over $100,000 as well. Yeah. To her daughter, claiming it was to start this business. So, yeah, that's how it went. Now Tina has been hanging out with a woman named Skye Hanson. Okay. Sky her and Skye met at the old Idaho Penitentiary in Boise.

[B]

Yeah, Sky's are dangerous women.

[A]

Anyone with. Especially with an E on the end, watch out. And she has that. Now, Skye Hansen was in there for manufacturing drugs, so for cooking meth. And Tina was in there for theft, forgery, and car theft. All right, sounds like a match made in having these two.

[B]

Both are methy behavior for sure.

[A]

Absolutely. After they were released, they lived together in Clarkston and Pullman. And Tina's son Christopher lived with them for part of the time. Little bit of sky here, she's about seven years older than Tina. She is well known to state police for being involved in drug manufacturing and dealing with. Everyone says that. And this is from the detectives. Skye Hansen dominated the relationship. She's a real dominant heart, James. No, she's a dominant personality type that makes you do what she wants. Yeah, she cares about you. That's why they said she liked tropical fish. She owned a 77 Firebird and a 95 Corvette.

[B]

Fucking A. Yeah, the cheese chick's wild.

[A]

She also owned five houses in Whitman County. Five. She bought fixer uppers and rented them out after she repaired them.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. Now, after Tina and Sky were released from prison, they started a home renovation business together and asked Barbara for seed money. And that's where the 100,000 came from. Gary hated Sky. Hated her. Yeah, hated her. Didn't like Tina hanging around with her. Thought sky was a bad influence. So there was so much conflict between Gary and Tina that he cut Tina out of the will. All the way down to leaving her $1 in his will. $1? Fuck you is what. If that's who you're gonna be with, I'm not giving you shit that will

[B]

hurt on death day for sure.

[A]

Now, Barbara, though, she leaves behind a $500,000 life insurance policy.

[B]

To who?

[A]

$530,000 with Tina as the sole beneficiary. Imagine if you're Chuck.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What the fuck am I?

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Yeah, I don't get a dime, right? So, yeah, he got nothing. Now, this was as long. The only way you got the 5:30 is if the death was either accidental or natural. One of the two. The only way. No murder, accidental or natural. Okay. Tina goes for the money. On the autopsy. There is an undetermined cause of death. And so the death certificate prevented Tina from getting the insurance payout because it has to be classified as an accident or natural. But she and her attorney managed to get the cause change to accidental drowning, which gets her the windfall of $530,000, okay? She immediately signs it over to Sky Hansen, okay? And they disappear. Gone like Kaiser Sose. And the flash is gone. Rumors are they left the country. There's a reason why they think they left. And that is a woman named Anita Steckman comes forward. You've never heard of this woman so far. We're going to talk about a whole different murder now, okay? She says she thinks her husband may have killed an 89 year old woman in 1995 named Dorothy Martin in Pullman, Washington, because he gave her a very specific and expensive ring after a robbery. And she's seen that's linked to this old lady that's been dead. So she popped up and said now at this point they were divorced, Anita and her husband. But she said that they'd been living together. Anita told the officers that another woman, Sky Hansen, offered her husband, Bradley Steckman, $1,000 to steal this old lady's diamond ring. Okay? She also said that before the murder she went to this woman's home, the old lady's home, with her husband and tried unsuccessfully to break in through a window. Anita tells police that her ex husband worked for sky Hansen Around July 96 when this murder happened. So apparently he had cased places for Skye Hansen who would return later to commit burglaries and robberies of those places. Anita said that Skye Hansen asked him to steal the. It's a white gold and diamond ring reportedly worth $30,000 and she offered him $1,000 for it. So Bradley, she said her husband led her to the elderly woman's ground floor apartment and the two made an unsuccessful attempt to break in through the window. Shortly after that, Anita told police her husband returned home after being out all night. She said he told her he had broken into a manager's unit, stolen some keys and other items and broken into Dorothy Martin's apartment. The 89 year old she told police her husband told her that he had turned the ring over to Sky Hansen. Okay? He also had other items from the apartment besides the ring. Investigators also find a. Because at this point, when she comes forward, he's already in jail for burglary, her husband. So they find a cellmate of his that also comes forward who says that Stechman. That this guy told him about it and provides more evidence for the police. Now this is Bradley Marion Steckman. S T E C K M A N He's known throughout the Washington, eastern Washington and northern Idaho area as, quote, the Gentleman Robber. The Gentleman Robber. He's got a fucking nick. That's how much he robs they named him in 1996, he apparently murdered 89 year old Dorothy Martin. That we find out. 89, what the fuck $30,000 ring he was hired to do. Apparently he has a history, huge history of lesser charges and would case homes and steal jewelry. Now Dorothy Martin was found with a towel wrapped around her head in her condominium with a distinctive ring with multiple European cut diamonds totaling more than three carats. And a few other items were missing. And then nothing else was disturbed. There was rest of the house was

[B]

perfect literally for a ring.

[A]

For a ring. Her husband had died in 1974. She'd been living on her own for 20 years and they owned an auto service shop that her son ran. But she was found dead in her Military Hill Condominium July 21, 1996. Autopsy results indicate that she died of asphyxiation, but she was in good health at 89. The weird thing is too several items taken including from the manager's apartment a few feet away, the keys were stolen there. And they were trying to figure out who did this for these three years basically. But they also have a Polaroid camera and a radio that were also taken from there were found among Bradley Steckman's things.

[B]

Whoops.

[A]

So he had that. And she was discovered in a. Martin was discovered in a night gown with a terry cloth towel wrapped around her head. The investigation took more than four years as we find out later as it goes on now leads in the case were first slim. So the Martin family put up a $20,000 reward, but that offer ended in 1998, which I didn't know there was. I didn't know there was expiration dates on rewards for dead people.

[B]

They're open ended usually, aren't they?

[A]

I would assume 98, you go, we don't care anymore. And we're pulling the. Who does that? That's the weirdest thing ever.

[B]

We pulled the money, we've invested it,

[A]

we put it somewhere else. They said it was well over three years after the murder before a tip came in. So apparently Sky Hansen had done some carpentry jobs for Dorothy Martin. That's how she knew she had the ring. They said police found her name in Dorothy Martin's address book at the time of the killing, but didn't have anything to connect. They just called everybody in the address book and she just said yeah, I did some work for her. And they were like oh, all right. And that was that. They learned that Bradley Steckman though had ties to Skye Hansen and Tina Loesch. Now they want to talk to sky and Tina again after they talk to Bradley. But they can't find them because they've disappeared. That. Yep. Before Hansen disappeared, she told investigators that Martin hired her to install closet organizers at the condo and refinish a table. So Hansen said that she was familiar with Hansen's. With Martin's residence and security measures. So they'd like to talk to her, obviously. By the way, Steckman's going to admit to this. Bradley Steckman, this murder. He went in there just to rob her. But she put up a fight and he struggled with her and he had to fucking suffocate. He had to put a pillow over her face and suffocate her because he couldn't physically control an 89 year old woman.

[B]

I couldn't keep that old lady at bay to get this goddamn ring.

[A]

Christ. Almost. He had to wrestle it off her finger, for fuck's sake. Pull it from her bony finger. That's awful.

[B]

Imagine your life is worth 30 grand. That's so crazy.

[A]

Barely a grand to the guy who did it. So while officers pursued Steckman, clues kept coming in. Found among Bradley Steckman's belongings were a bent butter knife used to attempt to break into Martin's home, which is what the wife told them they used before that. And also information from a jeweler who thinks he's seen the diamonds from Martin's ring. He said that Sky Hansen brought him a sack of loose stones to be appraised in 1996, right after the murders. And the gems included some European cut diamonds that the jeweler thought resembled those in the picture of Martin's ring. How many of those are in Pullman, Washington? Now? A suspect. This is Bradley. He decides to strike a deal here. And part of that deal is he is going to tell the cops what he knows about sky and Tina. Oh. Cause he worked for their renovation company and obviously did their bidding. The cops said Stecman was basically Skye Hansen's thug and that he told police that she had requested he break into the house, steal the ring, and that she had seen while working there. Okay, so sky and Tina fall off the face of the earth with Christopher.

[B]

They took the kid with him.

[A]

They took the kid. Now, police are concerned. They say they're concerned for Christopher's welfare, but also they want to get him in there in the box and interrogate them. So they said they threw all their resources into finding them, including monitoring border crossings and plane flights, but came up with nothing.

[B]

You can't find a kid.

[A]

A kid and two ladies can't find him. So Brad is charged with robbery and first degree murder. First off here, but he's in jail and they have to charge him now because he was soon to be released on parole. So they had to rearrest him and charge him. So 2001, the Dorothy Martin's family agrees to let them do a deal. And they said something like this. We wouldn't have even presented had the family not been okay with it. He pleads guilty to second degree murder during a robbery and he's sentenced to. You, sir, may fuck off. 18 years in prison for that.

[B]

Oh, he's lucky.

[A]

Which seems light.

[B]

That's very light for second degree.

[A]

Seems like the judge said, well, 89. How much time she have left? That's odd. But that seems like that's what they said. You know what I mean? I don't know. One other calculation. 35 at this point.

[B]

Chance for sure.

[A]

32 maybe at that point that he pled. So he goes to prison for the murder of Dorothy Martin. Once again, the Loesch family, they still have no answers. Okay, 2003, he comes forward and he's got more to say. He says, I killed Barbara Loesch. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Why did he do that?

[A]

Well, money. They were supposed to pay him part of the insurance. And by the way, I understand that part.

[B]

Why'd he come forward?

[A]

They stuck him and never paid him.

[B]

Oh, that'll do it. Yep.

[A]

He was supposed to get 10 grand and they stiffed him. He says, okay, Tina and Sky hired him to carry out the murder and make it look like an accident. They claimed they were gonna give him $10,000. He said that he had an accomplice, we don't know who. Salt the water in the hot tub first to increase its conductivity. This is diabolical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. He said that he told the police that he lowered Barbara into the hot tub to watch television. He was there with Tina. He said he lured her in to watch television. He stuck a pencil in the back of the set to bypass the circuit breaker. Shit. The electrocution safeguards that are in all electronics. Yeah, he put a pencil in there to block it off. But wouldn't that he knew how to do that. It worked. So, I mean, it worked. It's crazy.

[B]

The house didn't have the safeguard.

[A]

Yeah, you would imagine. Well, that's the thing. That's not what kills her. They said that just. It stuns her, basically. Oh, so they said that he did that. Quote, tim plugged the extension cord in. Artina plugged the extension cord in while I set the TV on the hot tub is what he said. He said he pushed the TV in the electric shock, like, stunned her and knocked her sort of unconscious, but didn't kill her. Then they rolled her over on her stomach and Tina held her head underwater until she drowned.

[B]

He said, that is fucked up.

[A]

That is fucking diabolical. And to plan all this out ahead. Wow, they said. Then the detective said he must have unplugged that TV so Tina could go ahead and finish what she started so the water wouldn't be dangerous. Once that plan had been carried out, they said Tina held her underwater for about two minutes. And he said Tina fell apart on the way back home, crying and vomiting.

[B]

Well, yeah, you just murdered somebody that's

[A]

showing some form of humanness at least. Jeez. At least she wasn't like, good fucking your mother, who's been nice to you, by the way, hasn't been shitty to you. So then Hansen, Skye Hansen, drove to Post Falls to make sure things have been done right because she's in charge. She drove to the house to take a look at the scene, make sure she was dead, make sure everything was the way it was supposed to be, and then left. Now Brad has even more shit to talk about. What? He said, not only did I kill Barbara, I was asked to follow Gary and pinpoint locations on his paper route. That would be the best spot to murder him. Skye Hansen hired me to do that. Wow, he said. But he, quote, swears he didn't fire the shot. He said I wasn't even there. I told them the spot to go. I followed him for a couple days. Just knew where he went. Told them where to go. Female DNA.

[B]

Yeah, on the cigarettes.

[A]

Put two and two together with that.

[B]

This sky is crazy.

[A]

Sky is a bash. Bad bitch, man. Horrible.

[B]

Rough.

[A]

So they said they keep visiting Steckman in prison. And they said he confessed. He's been given more details. And they said, quote, this is a cop. This wasn't unexpected. They have summarized their evidence. We will review and make sure within a week or two whether to file charges and to file and what to file. They said people on the scene that day, meaning Barbara's murder. We were not comfortable with the layout of the crime scene since day one. Post Falls does not get a lot of homicides, but this one was screaming. The more we looked and the more we deciphered, the more it was not adding up. That's why we never let up on it. And then one detective said brad never did see the 10,000. I think that's why he cooperated. That's so funny. Yep. I think he felt it was probably in his best interest to come forward and tell his side. I think he realized that we in the county were not going to give up. No, he didn't. You were never going to catch him. This was going to be unsolved to this day.

[B]

Right. You got a guy that participated in three murders and has $1,000 net to show for it. He's pissed. And 18 years.

[A]

And he's sitting in jail for 18 years with nothing on his books. Yeah, no comment necessary. He's pissed. They said the combination of the husband's murder and more or less some gut feelings I always had suspected that this was not an accident and this was not a suicide. It's quite the case. I'm not satisfied that we have the whole story at this point. Oh, and you don't trust me. It gets weirder, okay?

[B]

You're terrible at your job.

[A]

You're terrible. Now they can't arrest the ladies, number one, cause they can't fucking find them. They have no idea where they are. And number two, Brad's a co conspirator with no other corroboration, so he would not be allowed to testify against them in court.

[B]

So they've got nothing.

[A]

They got ugats at this point. They have nothing. Then 2004, the lead detective said in the newspaper he believes Tina's dead. He believes she's dead. He said he wonders if her son Christopher is also dead. Is he dead too? He said he's scouring national databases for missing and exploited children to try to find some trace of Christopher and has placed Tina's dental records on a national crime computer, hoping if there's some Jane Doe somewhere out there, it may be matched as her. So they're already looking for dental records. Now Chuck hears about all this. They tell the family, obviously. And Chuck said, holy fuck. He said, the last time I saw my sister was at my mother's funeral. He said, I had no idea she was involved in any of this. And he said, she's one hell of an actress. I'll say that much for her.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. He hasn't seen Christopher, he said, since he was maybe 2 years old. He hasn't seen him in years and years. He said Tina was always mixed up with the wrong crowd, always causing trouble. This is beyond causing trouble. So 2004, they make a deal with Steckman to plead guilty for the barber murder here as well. So he is going to be sentenced here. It's a plea bargain. And they said the State has nothing to solve the homicide and without him coming forward, they have nothing. So they had to do this deal. Basically, they give him, you, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison with possible parole after 15 years.

[B]

So now it's 33.

[A]

It's to run concurrently with the other sentence. So. Still insane. It goes back to the beginning. It's retroactive. We'll find out. He's eligible for parole for everything in 2016. 16. That's fucking crazy. Anyway, there's reactions here. Laura Loesch, who's Randy's wife, said, we're ecstatic. This is closure for part of the it. We knew this in the back of our minds that she was murdered, but it wasn't in your face like it was with Gary. They said they've reopened the investigation into the Gary Loesch killing, but it's in limbo. As they were hammering out this other plea bargain, they got a lot to do. 2006, they reopened Barbara's case to try to find Tina and Sky. They name them as persons of interest, officially. Yeah. So they say they're purging any way

[B]

to get the money back from him.

[A]

Not if it's gone. They can't even find them. Nevermind the money. So he said that at one time he thought that Tina and Christopher were dead, but he said that he's not sure now. And he said that the Post Falls police were trying to keep the case quiet in hopes they wouldn't go deeper into hiding. He said that to a newspaper reporter who put that in the newspaper, which is very smart.

[B]

Please don't say anything about this.

[A]

We're trying to keep something quiet. Everybody good with that here? So, yeah, they tried the US Marshals Service and they said the key to this case are these two here, Tina and Sky, tapping on mugshots of them. They were last seen loading an RV in Seattle in October 99.

[B]

They got an RV.

[A]

Now, the son, Christopher. They find out that Christopher was living with other people from 99 to 2000. He was living with a Spokane defense attorney named Julie Twyford, apparently. And he was enrolled in Spokane's Shiloh Hills elementary School under the name Christopher Robinson. Like Winnie the Pooh or something. Again, why do people cannot come up with shit? Remember Bill Longington from the Maternal Instinct province, son? Yeah. They said then he just didn't show up for school one day and his transcripts have never been forwarded.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Now they went and interviewed Steve Cassell, who was apparently, I believe, living with the lawyer. One of the people watching Christopher and He was charged of charges of illegal money transactions. And he said he doesn't know where he is either. And he doesn't know. He said that they don't know anything. Twyford, by the way, had represented the South Hill rapist, Kevin Coe. So that's why he was famous. Now, the reason why Cassell got in trouble, he was trying to sell Sky's houses. So he apparently has some connection with these people, but says he doesn't know where they are or.

[B]

Yeah, but if you sell the homes, then where does the money go, dickhead?

[A]

That's the point exactly. Authorities say Twyford and Castle deny knowing anything about the boy or the women's whereabouts. But Hansen's Corvette is in their garage. So they had one of their sons in one of their Corvettes, which is like a child to a childless person

[B]

and power of attorney to sell property for them. Where the fuck are they?

[A]

Where are they? They won't say. And they have no reason to compel, no way to compel them to tell them, basically. January 2008, case is still active. They're still looking for these women here. October 2008, they say, fuck it, we need help. And they said we hit a dead end and we needed help. And they said they had to issue arrest warrants for them at this point. They said without the warrants, we couldn't get help from the federal government. And more importantly, America's Most Wanted wouldn't touch the case. And they really wanted to put it out there. To America's Most Wanted.

[B]

We need fucking Walsh.

[A]

Need him or not. Somebody else by then, maybe, I don't know. Either way, 2008, I think it's still Walsh, probably. Either way, though, they basically think that they've tried everything. The marshals, the FBI, no one can find these people. So maybe just somebody in a 711 will run into them and whatever. Now America's Most Wanted, they interview the police and they have a big episode on the whole thing. It's on November 15, 2008. They run a segment. It's I believe, the 8 o' clock or 8:30 time slot. So three hours later, after the segment airs, 11:30pm On November 15, a motorist comes across a white Dodge Durango on a road northwest of Tucson, Arizona. Oh, on the side of the road. Okay. So inside the car, they call the cops just to say there's a car on the side of the road. Inside the car, they find the bodies of Tina and Sky dead.

[B]

Dead.

[A]

What dead? Both with gunshot wounds. Tina holding a 9 millimeter murder, suicide. Murder fucking suicide. They said. Three hours after the case was aired on America's Most Wanted, they were found dead in the desert of Tucson, Arizona. The detectives said.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

They said that the authorities arrived at the site, they found the bodies and a suicide. 8 page suicide note expressing regret over the crime. And sky left a will as well. They discovered gunshot wounds to the head that were inflicted by the 9 millimeter found in the vehicle near Tina's hand. Yeah, so they were trying to. In the letter that Tina was alleged to have been involved in the killing of her father, she said that she had nothing to do with it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They said, obviously this was a suicide pact. Clearly. The eerie, weird thing, they killed Barbara. They denied everything, but they said they can't go back to prison, basically. And they had been telling people they know that they were going back to prison. America's Most Wanted aired, and they went, we're going back to prison. And they got in the car and went out and shot themselves. Nowhere in the suicide note do they mention Christopher.

[B]

What?

[A]

Who would now be 17 years old and still has not been seen. No one knows where he is. So according to a detective who talked to somebody they know, Tina and Sky saw a commercial for America's Most Wanted and told their friend they'd rather die than go back to prison. Got the Durango and took off. Hansen had started another home improvement business, but it was unlicensed and didn't pay taxes. They hadn't changed their names legally, but were known in Tucson by different names. Tina was dawn and Hansen was Katie. So they said that neighbors in Tucson told the investigators that Christopher had been living with his mother in 2002, but she told them she sent him to live with his father because he was too much to handle. We don't even know who his father is, and neither do the police. So they don't know. They were searching. They said that in Spokane is where he was sent, but they don't know anything. So they're looking. Obviously they were looking to talk to Twyford and Castle, the people who used to have Christopher, to find out maybe if they know where he is. But they said they have not seen the boy for many, many years. So. Police arrive at Skye and Tina's house in Tucson. It's under renovation, and all of their belongings are boxed up in the garage.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Like they were about to make a run for us.

[B]

You already boxed them for us.

[A]

Perfect. But the weird thing is, underneath the boxes, they found hundreds and hundreds of dryer sheets laid out. Oh, hundreds and Hundreds of dryer sheets. Why would you do that?

[B]

The scent of a body.

[A]

Something they said. What it meant to me was they were trying to mask an odor. The detective said they dug up the area. There were hits by cadaver dogs, but no remains were found.

[B]

What?

[A]

They had that fucking kid buried in that garage for a long time and then moved a long time. Okay. So the detective said, what happened to Christopher? To this day, we don't know. He just vanished. We don't know if we've potentially found another homicide in this case.

[B]

He made.

[A]

When I picked this case, it was about a lady floating in a hot tub. And then I'm like, what the fuck? All these things are coming out, and I'm like, jesus Christ. This is crazy.

[B]

What'd they do with Christopher?

[A]

We don't know. They boozed him, right? Had to have. Finding him is. Our top priority. Information we have so far is that he was in the Tucson area in late 99. He was sent to live with his father about a year after that because of the boy exhibiting behavioral problems. They don't know his father's identity. Yeah. No record of the women changing their last names to avoid law enforcement. They just didn't do anything under their names. So they called the Pima county sheriff, called Idaho, and the Idaho police said, we got a call that night from the Pima County Sheriff's Office. They said, I think we may have found your girls.

[B]

Well, we definitely.

[A]

Yeah. The funny thing is, the lead detective from Idaho said when I got the call from Tucson, I was skeptical. Of what? They're dead, Skep. What? They're not them. What are you talking about? He said it had.

[B]

Was it April 1st? Otherwise, why. Why.

[A]

Why would you make this up on November 15? He said it had been so difficult to find them over the years that I didn't think it's possible. If I can't find them, they must be vaporized.

[B]

I'm the best.

[A]

I'm the best. I'm the same guy who said the hardest thing about this is finding out who did it. Wow. He said, once we determined it was them, I had a lot of questions.

[B]

Well, you're not gonna get any answers.

[A]

No one's gonna answer. No, they're not talking right now.

[B]

Unfortunately, they're not taking questions.

[A]

He said that the Loesch family called it a relief, and the detective said they won't have to keep looking over their shoulders and wondering if these two might be coming back for any of them. By the way, were there any actual tips from America's Most wanted. Like, did this matter? Because if there was no tips, then they did this for nothing. They had over 50 tips from all over the country. One pointed to Arizona.

[B]

Is that right? 1.

[A]

So they might have been busted by that one tip, or it might have just been some horseshit coincidence and they wouldn't even have gotten in trouble for

[B]

it may have been someone from Flagstaff thinking they saw somebody.

[A]

Exactly. 2011, Chuck hopes that the deadly sin TV show can help solve his dad's murder. I think we solved his dad's murder. I think not we, but yeah, I think it's been solved.

[B]

They have DNA and they have a couple of bodies. He could have checked that.

[A]

They have a guy admitting to what he did, female DNA. We could put it together. What happened here? Probably. But he said, Chuck said, who exactly was part of it? Who was responsible for my father's death and where is Christopher?

[B]

That's a good question.

[A]

That's a good question. He said. The lead detective said we have scoured the earth for him and not found any leads to where he may be. It's unbelievable. So, yeah, they have no idea where he may be. Scoured the earth for him, they said. So they said it would be a big sigh of relief to find out exactly what happened. Now, this is how deadly sins executive producer described the story. It's a fascinating story of how sinister people can be. Every man, woman and child are guilty of sin. But this show takes a look at what happens when sin becomes deadly.

[B]

Good Lord.

[A]

Good God. See, this is why we make a comedy show about this. Because that. That if we said that, that's horrible. Because that's the alternative. Every man, woman and child are guilty of sin. You want to hear that from us? No, you don't want to hear that

[B]

every child's guilty of sin.

[A]

The fuck out of here kind of

[B]

life is that to live?

[A]

Jesus, that's what you're living. How you're living. December 12, 2012. Bradley dies. He's dead. What? Bradley's fucking dead. Died at the Valley Hospital Medical center while serving a sentence. Four years short of parole.

[B]

Take that, sir.

[A]

Take that. 2020. Where the fuck is Christopher?

[B]

What is happening?

[A]

Yep, the detective said that he and other members of the department think about Chris often. They said if he's still alive, he'd be 30 years old by this point. The one detective said, I hope so. I hope Christopher's alive and off living his life somewhere, but I have my doubts. And Christopher, Chuck also said, quote, there might be a slight possibility he's in Another country. I have a tendency to believe he's in Belize. My sister and her girlfriends had connections there.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

They fucking killed that boy. And he was an inconvenience and they killed him.

[B]

You could certainly tell your family that, like when the dog dies.

[A]

But yeah, doggy having. Belize is doggy heaven for this kid. That's all it is.

[B]

13 year old.

[A]

Yeah. As of 2024, still nobody found Christopher. Gone. I mean, it's never found.

[B]

If you don't see a kid, a 34 year old, he's probably not coming around ever again.

[A]

Yep. So they did an episode of Killer Couples and they did an episode of Deadly Sins called Greed. I guess that was the deadly sin they were talking about. Barbara and Gary are buried at the Evergreen Cemetery in Post Falls. Dorothy is buried in the Moscow Cemetery in Latah County, Idaho. And Tina was cremated.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Christopher was buried in a garage and then moved to the desert. Probably where he was eaten by animals, I would assume. That's my guess.

[B]

That's so up. So up.

[A]

How of a case is this?

[B]

How terrible of a person do you got to be to value your mother's life at 530 grand?

[A]

And your father's with nothing because he pissed you off because you don't like cuz sky was mad at him.

[B]

And then your son, you got nothing

[A]

out of your mother. This guy killed an old and an old lady. They had. I mean, the whole thing. This is a horrible. What do we get? Four, at least three and possibly four murders out of this case. This is insanity. So anyway, if you like this show or anything about it, please get on whatever app you're on. Give us five stars. It helps a ton. Netflix, thumbs up. It helps so much. So thank you. If you enjoy what you're hearing, don't do meth. Just do that. Don't do meth. Or kill your parents or children or anybody else. So yeah, do that. Definitely head over to shutupandgivememurder.com tickets for live shows you're going to find there. Oh, baby. September. September 18th, Pabst Theater in Milwaukee. Those are almost gone, so get your tickets right now if you want to go see that. The next night, September 19th, we're in Minneapolis at the State Theater. Can't wait for that one. So get in there and get your tickets for that later on in the year. In October, we're in Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, November, Tarrytown in Boston. So come out and see us. Come to a show. Shut up and give me murder.com also. All the merch is there and everything like that. You can also definitely follow on social media. Social media, smalltownmurder on Instagram, malltownpod on Facebook. So get in there and do that. You can get yourself Patreon, which is we recommend the most. Patreon.com crimeinsports that is where you get. By the way, that's the name of our other show that you should listen to because it's really good. But anyway, that is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You get everything. We put out everything including as soon as you subscribe, you get about 400 back bonus episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription, new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder and you get goddamn all of it. This week, what we're going to talk about for Patreon crime and sports, Kirby Puckett. We're going to talk about a beloved baseball player who did some or allegedly did some non beloved things. We're told, we're told small town murder, maternal instinct, crazy goddamn story, the Netflix documentary. And of course we talk about the body cam footage and everything else. And holy shit, is that a crazy story. A woman cut a lady's baby out and tried to pretend it was hers. So we'll talk about that. Patreon.com CrimeInSports and on top of that, you get everything. We put out all three shows ad free with your Patreon. And on top of that just never ends here. On top of that, you also get a shout out at the end of the regular show. So anyway, keep coming and seeing us here. Check it out if you want to follow us on social Media, of course, shutupandgivemerder.com is the place to do that and everything do that. Keep coming back. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

[B]

Bye,

[A]

Sam.