Hooters, Hitler & Horribleness - Ocean City, Maryland

Summary

Small Town Murder: "Hooters, Hitler & Horribleness" – Ocean City, Maryland

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Air Date: January 24, 2026
Episode Theme:
An in-depth, comedic look at a horrifying double murder in the beach resort town of Ocean City, Maryland, as the hosts unravel the unhinged, disturbing case of Erika and Benjamin "Beej" Sifret, blending true crime research, local color, and characteristic humor.

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Episode Overview

James and Jimmie examine Ocean City, Maryland—its idiosyncrasies, local history, and crazy population inflations every summer—before diving into the truly wild, outlandish details of a 2002 double homicide by two of the oddest, scariest perpetrators to ever enter their docket: a couple obsessed with Hooters memorabilia, Nazi paraphernalia, and impulsive violence.

The episode is classic Small Town Murder: deeply researched, unsparingly dark, but always leavened with jokes, as the hosts weave together community reviews, personal histories, and a genuinely sad case of senseless murder.

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Ocean City, Maryland: A Character Study

Population and Vibe

• Permanent population: ~6,800 (swells to 350,000+ on summer weekends).
• James: "You're packing 10 pounds into a 2 pound bag type of shit that we got going on here." (03:00)
• Median household income: $58,563. Median home: $433,600.
• Tourist hotspot, heavily service-industry oriented.

Local Color

• Area codes: 410, 443, 667 ("Good Lord." – Jimmie, 06:01)
• Famous for wild summer festivals, beach culture, and a party reputation.
• Notable event: Oceans Calling Festival—90s and 00s nostalgia acts abound:
  • "If you were 17 in 1998, that is like, you'd love to go to that show." – James (12:24)

Town Reviews (Hilarious & Odd)

• Five-star local: “Grew up just running across the street to jump in the ocean and enjoy a sun filled day of fun. You little prick.” – James (08:18)
• Three-star: “It’s slowly becoming less and less of a family friendly place.” (09:03)
• One-star, unhinged: “Ocean City is full of radiation... All condos and hotels have 5G on top of them.” – James (10:03)
  • “Or he's a insane, crazy lunatic.” – James (10:31)

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Victims: Joshua Ford & Martha "Jeannie" Crutchley

Their Backgrounds

• Joshua Ford: 32, Army veteran, insurance underwriter, South Boston native, martial arts enthusiast.
  • “Best thing I can say, he’s a damn solid citizen, this cat.” – James (12:55)
  • Notable traumatic history: his niece was murdered in a still-unsolved decapitation case.
• Martha "Jeannie" Crutchley: 51, insurance executive, Kansas native, renowned for never missing a day of work for 21 years.
  • “She has not missed a day of work in 20 years. Really missed perfect attendance over here. All the medals hanging for each year.” – James (15:11)

Unusual Couple

• Significant age gap: “You just don’t see it this way very often.” – James (14:38)
• Met at a company party in 1999, quickly became inseparable, moved in together 2001.

Memorial Day Weekend 2002

• Motivation: Vacation to Ocean City to decompress from personal trauma.
• Fun, easygoing couple, ready for a restful break.

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The Perpetrators: Erika and Benjamin "Beej" Sifret

Erika Sifret (née Grace)

• Only child, Pennsylvania, privileged upbringing, perfectionist, basketball star, honors student.
  • “Couldn’t have met a nicer, more polite person than Erika... but under the surface... a lot of disorders.” – James (23:25)
• Functioning OCD, anxiety, eating disorders.
• Highly pressured by a relentless father (“Moved family to different school district for more playing time.” – James 25:22)
• College: University of Mary Washington, history and poli-sci major, top Division III three-point shooter.

Benjamin "Beej" Sifret

• Iowa—Midwest native, father was corporate executive, moved frequently.
• Wanted action: Excelled at Navy SEAL training (one of just 18 to complete his class, one of only positive things anyone can say about him).
  • "He's like Ric Flair, this fucking guy. What? He is, except his dick's in his pants." – James (33:16)
• Ultimately kicked out of Navy for AWOL, insubordination, and wearing unauthorized insignia. (36:47)

Relationship and Escalation

• Whirlwind romance: Met at bar in 2000, married after three weeks in Las Vegas, not telling families.
• Erika became financially and emotionally dependent—fiendish jealousy, stalking behavior, pill and alcohol addiction.
• Obsession with Hooters memorabilia: Erika collected Hooters merch (tank tops, etc.), BJ used locksmith skills for burglaries.
  • “Started burglarizing Hooters restaurants... all she wants is the merch cabinet.” (42:44)
• Swastika & Hitler fixation:
  • “He got a giant swastika on his chest. They called it Ed Norton American History X. Fucking swastika on his chest. Enormous.” – James (40:15)
  • “They both became obsessed with Hitler, obviously.” (41:18)
  • Named their cobra "Hitler" and another snake "HIV." (41:36)

Drug Use & Crime

• Extensive Xanax and Valium abuse (smuggled from South America)
• Escalating criminality: pills, ecstasy, cocaine, and increasingly bold Hooters burglaries.

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The Murders (00:12:38 onward)

How It Started:

• Memorial Day 2002: Josh and Jeannie meet Erika and Beej on the city bus, heading to "Seacrets" (a party bar).
• Generous/Friendly Josh pays their bus fare; couples vow to buy each other drinks.
• They party, then head in sequence to each others’ condos, smoke weed, drink, and hot tub.

Deadly Turn of Events (From 3:01 AM)

• Erika claims her purse is missing and calls 911 acting fearful, possibly playing up a scam (47:11).
  • "There are people in my apartment... I'm afraid I'm going to have a robbery here." – Erika, 911 (47:08)
• No clear address; police do not respond.
• Shortly thereafter, both Josh and Jeannie disappear. They are reported missing.

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The Crime: Host Breakdown

Host Description (Multiple Times): The Sifretes' bizarre behaviors escalate to unspeakable violence.

• Accuse Josh & Jeannie of theft, pull a gun, force them to strip and barricade themselves in a bathroom.
• BJ fires through door—wounds Josh, kicks in door, fatally shoots him. Jeannie is shot and then stabbed by Erika at BJ's behest (61:15).
• Erika's full confession: "We cut the heads off the arms and the legs." – Erika, to police (58:57)
• Dismember bodies, transport remains to a Delaware dumpster. Only partial remains of both recovered.

Notable/Disturbing Details

• BJ, aroused, displays the victims’ heads: "Take a picture. I want to send it to my buddies." – BJ (62:56)
• Allegations of necrophilia and attempted cannibalism.
• Erika wore Josh’s blood-caked ring as a necklace; got a cobra tattoo over the spot she stabbed Jeannie.

Later That Week:

• Sifrets nearly repeat the crime—invite couple to condo, set up same “missing purse” ruse, but the guests escape by faking urgent need for sex. “Too horny to die.” (66:55)

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Investigation & Arrest

Discovery (Silent Alarm at Hooters)

• May 31, 2002: Caught red-handed burglarizing Hooters. Both armed and loaded with a veritable murder kit (51:10).
  • “Ski masks, zip ties, gloves, tape, lock picking supplies…” – James (51:02)
• IDs, personal effects, and empty shell casings from victims found.
• Condo is freshly repainted and cleaned, but extensive forensic evidence remains, including bullets, blood, a piece of scalp, and incriminating photos (55:05).

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Prosecution and Trials

Erika’s Cooperation

• She admits presence, then describes events in detail (58:57).
• Tries to cut a deal by implicating Beej, but admits too much in pre-polygraph interview; deal is rescinded.

Verdicts & Sentencing

BJ Sifret

• Guilty of second-degree murder (Jeannie), accessory after the fact (Josh). (71:16)
• 38 years in prison. Judge: “You’re a butcher. You cut these people up for no good reason.” (74:04)

Erika Sifret

• Guilty of first-degree murder (Josh), second-degree murder (Jeannie), and burglary/theft (Hooters heists). (73:22)
• Sentence: Life + 20 years.

Quotes:

• “This was nothing more than thrill killing for you and your wife. You’re a butcher.” – Judge Weinstein to BJ (74:04)
• “You Xanax-sniffing asshole, may fuck off. Life plus 20 years.” – Judge Weinstein to Erika (74:53)

Aftermath

• Both denied parole (Last as of 2024).
• BJ is eligible for mandatory release in 2030.

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Notable Moments & Quotes

The Title, Explained:
Jimmy: "Hooters, Hitler, and HIV. The three H’s. I think Hooters, Hitler, and HIV should definitely be the name of this episode. I think it is." (41:55)

On Hooters' Business Model:
James: “Hooters walks a strange line where they’re like, hey, look, we got chicks in short shorts with their big racks hanging out. But it’s a family place. Bring your kids.” (49:43)

On Being "Spoiled":
James: “If you grew up poor, that’s spoiled... Look at this guy with school clothes. Look at this fucking asshole. That’s how we grew up.” (22:51)

On Their Psychopathy:
James: “If I see a guy with a giant swastika tattoo laying with his eyes closed, he’s going to awake to his fucking nose being driven into his fucking skull.” (65:08)
Jimmie: “He’s gonna wake up terribly.” (65:10)

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Key Timestamps

• Town overview: 05:01–12:00
• Victim backgrounds: 12:38–17:45
• Suspect backgrounds: 23:01–38:43
• Hooters, Hitler & weird obsessions: 38:44–43:44
• Night of the murders: 44:29–47:19
• 911 call: 47:08–48:14
• Discovery of crime, evidence: 52:55–56:27
• Confessions and dismemberment: 58:57–62:53
• Trial and verdicts: 70:04–74:53

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Final Words

A deeply disturbing case of random, pointless violence—heightened by the perpetrators’ bizarre obsessions and unhinged behavior. The hosts offer a sharp, irreverent take, bringing out the insanity of both the crime and resort-town weirdness.

James:
“There you go, everybody. That is Ocean City, Maryland, very quickly.” (75:45)

Closing tone:
They remind listeners to get tickets and join Patreon, and sign off with their signature:
“And until next week, everybody, it’s been our pleasure.”

Transcript

[A]

Small Town Murder is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. But potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Hey y'. All. As a growing family, my husband and I love game night. Especially when it's Wayfair edition. Let's do it.

[B]

You gotta name as many Wayfair furniture into core categories as you can. Ready? Go. Sofas, bar stools, beds, ottomans, outdoor seating, bookshelves, kitchen tables, garden sheds, uh, mid century modern lamps.

[A]

Time. Nice.

[B]

You got nine out of a lot.

[A]

Not too bad.

[B]

Keep practicing by visiting Wayfair.com where you you can shop every style for every home.

[A]

Wayfair. Every style, every home. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay.

[B]

Choo choo.

[A]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[B]

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

[A]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely crazy man. This is one of those, I believe you packing 10 pounds into a 2 pound bag type of shit that we got going on here. This is gonna be wild stuff today. Before we get to that though, in case you didn't hear the Wednesday announcement, we'd like to say starting next week we're gonna be on Netflix.

[B]

You got it.

[A]

Also now that doesn't change if you like listening on audio. That's a goddamn thing. Won't change. A God one show note is the show comes out on Monday on Netflix. It is the only time the show will come out on Monday. We're only doing for release date, so there don't got it. No. Oh, is that so every Monday? Nope, that's not. No, no, no, no. Yeah, yep, exactly. So that's a show note. But thank you guys for making this possible. We really appreciate it.

[B]

Say it one more time.

[A]

Obviously we wouldn't be doing that. Oh, it'll be every Monday. Never on a Monday. Except for this coming Monday, the only time. And then it goes back Wednesday nights, Friday nights, same exact times. Everything's the same. Except if you want to watch us go do that. So thank you for that. Thank you for.

[B]

To all the DMs.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you to Libsyn for allowing for being supportive of the move and all that kind of thing. And it's going to be great stuff. So thank you so much. That said Shut up and give me murder dot com. Head over there, get your tickets to live shows. Come out and see us starting February 21st in Nashville. Get your tickets for that. Nashville will be fun. Then Durham on May 6th. I love how you pretend like you didn't know we were going there.

[B]

I didn't. I just found out.

[A]

Like we haven't got over this. March 6th.

[B]

March 6th, we have another 13 phone calls. About the same fucking.

[A]

Like you don't have plane tickets.

[B]

First day weekend. Let's go.

[A]

Let's do it. March 7th, Atlanta. Phoenix. Sold out. Your stupid opinions. Has still got some tickets for Phoenix, right? Salt Lake City, sold out. Denver has tickets. Buffalo, sold out. Royal Oak, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown, Boston. Get your asses in there. Shut up and give me murder dot com.

[B]

All selling fast. Let's go.

[A]

Selling fast. Get in there. Also get yourself patreon. Patreon.com crimeinsports. You get everything. Everything we put out. Anybody $5 a month or above. You're gonna get a huge catalog back. Catalog of bonus episodes you've never heard before. Immediately upon subscription, new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder and you get them all.

[B]

We wouldn't give you the kit without the caboodle.

[A]

Oh, you get all the caboodles, baby. Now for small town murder or crime and sports, this week we're gonna do old timey ads and weird article. One of my favorite things to do, newspaper stuff. It's a lot of fun. Then for small town murder it's DEAN CORLL Part two.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

We got 27 bodies out of the ground, a dead murderer and a crazy story to tell. And a connection to John Wayne Gacy also. So that's gonna be a wild1. That's patreon.com crimeinsports and in addition to all of that, you also get everything we put out, Crime and sports. Your stupid opinion. Small town murder all ad free with your Patreon. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. So that said, I think it's a good deal. Patreon.com crimeandsports There we go. Let's get to this. I think it's time, everybody. Let's all clear the lungs. Arms to the sky, everyone, and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay, let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. We are going to Maryland this week. Yeah, we're going to Ocean City, Maryland.

[B]

I've heard of that.

[A]

Sounds like It's. There's a lot of ocean cities too. Maryland, everywhere. Ocean cities. Like any state that has ocean nearby, there's an ocean city there somewhere. But this sounds nice.

[B]

Maryland has several.

[A]

No, no, just the only one. This is in far southeastern Maryland. Maryland is like three panhandles, basically. This is the far eastern panhandle and this is one that comes. It's a panhandle on the end of a panhandle really juts out there. Really jutting out there. About 2 hours and 45 minutes to Baltimore. So it is as far away on the other side of the state as it could be. About 2 hours and 40 minutes to Largo, Maryland. Our last Maryland episode, the Mother Daughter Murders. That was a crazy one. That was the one where there was pairs. Two different pairs of mother daughters got killed. They thought it was somebody with a little predilection for that. This is in Worcester county and I hope they're pronouncing it the same as the Massachusetts does. There area codes 410-443-667.

[B]

Good Lord.

[A]

It's a lot for a small town. Population of this town, it fluctuates a lot. We'll just say the permanent population is about 6,800 people. 68, 69 is the number. But on a summer weekend, 350,000 people. Why? Because it's Ocean City. Yeah. People go here on vacation and this is, I mean, a hot spot for that many. That many. So the 68, 69 that live there are the people, you know, selling, curious. The other 300. Well, that's how they make a living, I'm sure is off those people. Median household income here. And the reason why I say they're probably a lot of service people because it's lower than the national average, really. $58,563. And then the median home cost does not help if that's what you make. Because that's $433,600.

[B]

Yeah. Because it is still Maryland.

[A]

Yep. So if you live here and by the ocean, if you live here and you work in, you know, some tourist based industry, you live in an apartment probably or something like that.

[B]

Not very good.

[A]

So a little bit of history. This land here was your land is Nyland from California. Yeah. So Jesus, you are. You got that the caboodle. It's like a fourth grade.

[B]

I can't stop.

[A]

It's fun. So this whole area was obtained by Thomas Fenwick from the indigenous people who lived here to begin with and then some other guy. Isaac Coffin. Isaac Coffin, just like C O F F I N. He's the tender of them. Yeah. He built a beachfront cottage to receive paying guests and he was the first one. And then.

[B]

Oh, with a bed and breakfast counter.

[A]

Yeah, he just put up a cottage. Who wants to rent it? Look at that. Look at the ocean. So, yep. Then they said, hey, we should make like, you know, this should be a spot. So they cut it up into a bunch of lots and started doing that kind of thing. Nice move. Before 1870, this area was known as the ladies Resort to the ocean. That's what everyone thought it was. It was all some ladies resort. I don't know what it was. It was like a spa day spa, like a brunch place or something with.

[B]

Their feet getting touched.

[A]

That's it. The Atlantic Hotel was the first major hotel in town that opened in 1875. So it's been cranking for a while. Some reviews of this town, let's figure it out here. Here's five stars. I'm one of the very few people who actually live there. Yeah, I've grown up in Ocean City. Very fortunate, with easy access to the beach. Grew up just running across the street to jump in the ocean and enjoy a sun filled day of fun. You little prick. For people who grew up not near the ocean like us, it's like, you little bastard. How dare you.

[B]

He's a very fun person, I'm sure.

[A]

Jesus. It was never a dull moment. With activities to do and a great supportive community.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's dirty dancing every day. Not just for the song.

[A]

All the time. Three stars. Ocean City is a beautiful place, but it's slowly becoming less and less of a family friendly place. Oh, great. Maybe I'll go there then. Wasn't interested before.

[B]

No kids. I'm coming.

[A]

Any family planning to vacation here who's not from around the area should, in all caps, avoid Ocean City during, quote, senior week. Now that sounds like a bunch of filthy old people having orgies and shit. But it's not. It's when high school graduates flood Ocean City.

[B]

Oh my God. What could be worse?

[A]

Horrifying. And then for time, we will just do one more. One star. This person is unhinged. And what he says makes me believe it because he's crazy. So maybe this is what caused us crazy. Ocean City is full of radiation. You go. Okay. What is there nuclear waste buried nearby or something like that? Something legitimate. Oh, no. Quote unquote. All condos and hotels have 5G on top of them.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yep. Traffic Lights are very high radiation. Traffic lights, power lines are real high radiation. Over 300 towers in an NA11 beach, if you believe. Buy yourself a meter, question mark. Check yourself into an institution, question mark.

[B]

Or stop selling those meters and doing it like this.

[A]

Oh, either this guy sells radiation meters.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Or he's a insane, crazy lunatic.

[B]

Actual kook.

[A]

Things to do here. Well, the goddamn beach. It's right there. That should be pretty obvious.

[B]

Sand.

[A]

Water.

[B]

You get it.

[A]

You get it. There's also the Oceans Calling Festival, where they have a bunch of food and they have a shitload of bands. And this isn't. These are big people here. They are playing Green Day. Lenny Kravitz. What? The Black Crows. Nelly. O, A r. Cake. Of course, Nelly. I was gonna say, Where's Ludacris? In here. Cake. Live the fray. This is just 1996. They're getting live to come back. Yeah, come back would be a good way to put it. Wonder if that guy still has that long ponytail at the back of his bald head. Like a Mongol.

[B]

I fucking loved them.

[A]

Oh, man. Fountains of Wayne, the 502s. The spin doctors. They're still going. Wow. Letters to Cleo Ballyhoo Bell. Izzy Escobar. That's Friday. What?

[B]

That's one day.

[A]

That's one day. Saturday. Noah Kahan. I don't know. Vampire Weekend. Good Charlotte, Modest Mouse. Jack's Mannequin. Collective Soul. En Vogue. En Vogue.

[B]

En Vogue.

[A]

That's good. Cause I saw the one lady in En Vogue was homeless, so that's good. Actually, she was sleeping homeless on the beach. She was living in her car. At least the weather's nice here. Franz Ferdinand. Natasha Bedingfield. DJ Jazzy Jeff. Just by himself.

[B]

Natasha Bedingfield.

[A]

Matt Kearney. Weedus Bumpin Uglies, Rachel Anna Dobkin. Then Sunday.

[B]

God damn, that's amazing.

[A]

Fallout Boy, Weezer Train. Devo Vance Joy, Ziggy Marley. Four non Blondes. Michelle Branch. Blind Melon. Guy died, didn't he? Burning Spear. Marcy Playground. Eric Hutchinson. Holy shit.

[B]

That is an amazing weekend.

[A]

That's a lot of people in 1998. And earlier, if you were like 17 in 1998, that is like, you'd love to go to that show.

[B]

We have dreams. God damn.

[A]

That said, let's talk about some murder, shall we? Here we go. Let's get into this.

[B]

Here we go.

[A]

Okay, for this, we're gonna go back to 2002 here. And let's find out about some people in 2002. All right, here's a Young man named Joshua Ford. Joshua Ford is 32 years old. And best thing I can say, he's a damn solid citizen, this cat.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

He's an insurance underwriter from Boston. Now don't hold that against him working in insurance. He's an army veteran. He's a nice guy. Raised in South Boston too. He's a Southie guy. Sure. He's huge into karate. Since he's a young man. Very. Since he was a child. Very. How old is he in 32?

[B]

2004.

[A]

2002. So he's born in 1970, which is prime karate time. When he came up, Bruce Lee was the biggest thing in the fucking world. So 70s was like all karate and then it died a little bit. Then Karate Kid resurged it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then a bunch of kids took karate and realized they still get their asses kicked if they have a green belt.

[B]

It doesn't matter because we don't fight with discipline. Motherfucker.

[A]

I'll knock your teeth when somebody punches you in the face. None of your. None of that shit matters anymore.

[B]

Yeah, nice stance. I have a two by four.

[A]

Yeah, especially in Southie. Imagine people. Come on, let's see. Let's see a crane there, guy. Come on. What do you got, a brick? What do you got over there? Come on. Yeah, I got brass knuckles. Let's see if it matches up. So after his military service, he was in the army. He attended Norfolk State University in Virginia and became an insurance underwriter and mortgage broker. Okay, so a real kind of just solid guy, you could say. Nothing crazy. Doesn't get arrested all the time or any crazy shit like that. He has a girlfriend Also now he's 32. Yeah, his girlfriend is 51 years old.

[B]

Atta boy.

[A]

That's interesting. Yeah, because you're always going out with people 20 years older than you.

[B]

20 years? Yeah, 20 years.

[A]

20 years. Yeah. That's a long time. You see that the other way. You just don't see it this way very often.

[B]

It's interesting.

[A]

Yeah, fine, but.

[B]

And in 2002, less so.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, totally. And I know. I just know how men's minds work. And unless he's the nicest man on the face of the earth, this ain't gonna last. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Probably not. Yeah, he's gonna. Eventually. Yeah, she's gonna. Those are.

[A]

Yeah, but it's going well right now. These two get along great. They're devoted to each other. He. His girlfriend is Martha Crutchley. She goes by Jeannie.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Might be her middle name or something. She's 51 years old. Like we said. She's an insurance executive from Kansas. And she has not missed a day of work in 20 years. Really missed perfect attendance over here. All the medals hanging for each year.

[B]

I could see has not missed a day of work.

[A]

A day of work. She's, like, known for it. It's her claim to fame in the office.

[B]

She's likely called in sick, but that's not missing a day of work, right?

[A]

No, no. Hasn't called in sick, nothing. So she has spread so many diseases around this office, I'm sure that's what it is. Yeah. Whenever I see perfect attendance with kids, I'm like, you telling me that kid's never been sick? Give me a break.

[B]

You are a reckless son of a bitch.

[A]

Yeah, but she came from Cunningham, Kansas. She worked as an insurance executive out of Chantilly, Virginia. And they work together. They live together. Sure. Her and Josh. Her colleagues say she, like I said, 21. I think it's 21 years. She never missed a day at work. Wow. They met in December 99. Because you go, how do these two get together with the age differences?

[B]

She hasn't missed a day of work since he was 10.

[A]

Yeah, since he was in the fifth grade. That's crazy. So they met at a company Christmas party while Jeannie was on a business trip in Boston. And they got immediately, right away, had a great connection. Both of them had been married once before. Each of them had a child from previous relationships, I'm assuming of very different ages. Her child could have probably had his child. Probably, but still. Yeah, but they love each other. They moved in together in Fairfax County, Virginia about April 2001. Josh's brother Mark said they were just in love. He said they were gardening. They were doing everything that couples do that are in love. I love how gardening is the first thing he thinks of couples doing that they were gardening, doing everything that couples do. Is that what you see as the pinnacle of couple success? Gardening?

[B]

Pulling weeds.

[A]

Real weird. It just wasn't like them to vanish. We'll talk about this. Okay? Now, October 2001, Josh's 23 year old niece was found decapitated and buried in a shallow grave on Cape Cod.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah, that was some deep shit for Josh. They went through a lot with that.

[B]

Did they solve it?

[A]

Well, they said that not only was her head missing, but reports indicated that her heart had been cut out of her body as well. Unsolved. Still, that murder, no one ever got to it. So there's a real bad dude walking around out there somewhere.

[B]

Even today.

[A]

They never solved it, so. Oh, my. I mean, it's been 24 years. I hope the guy's dead by now, but maybe not. Probably not, as we find out. Like when we found the Gilgo beach guy and all that. Like, they're still out there, these guys.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, what the hell? We don't know what's going on in Houston with all those bodies. Who knows?

[B]

That's wild stuff.

[A]

Memorial Day weekend, 2002, so late May. I always get that mixed up with Labor Day too.

[B]

I'm like, wait, I do too. But I remember I was on Cape Cod for Labor Day one year, and a man screamed Labor Day. And I'll never forget it as long as I live.

[A]

You know what? That.

[B]

I now know that that's in September.

[A]

No shit. So Josh and Jeannie were trying to. They had a lot of grief over this, and Josh has been having a hard time. So they want to go away, have a good time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they drove to. To Ocean City and checked into the Atlantis condominiums, which is a beachfront, beautiful high rise condominiums. They have a balcony that overlooks the ocean. Yeah.

[B]

Do some couple shit, like gardening down there.

[A]

They can garden all over that bad boy. They're gonna get some Romas growing out there fast.

[B]

Funniest thing I've ever heard.

[A]

Isn't that weird? I found that so strange thing to say. Such a strange line. So Josh calls his brother from the balcony, saying, wow, this view's amazing. They stopped at the grocery store, stocked up the fridge, bought a bunch of toiletries, and left shit on the bag all on the table. Cause they're going out. What, are we gonna hang out in this condo or at the ocean? Let's go. So they get on a city bus, they ditch the car. Cause they're gonna go out partying that night. So smart. They're going on a bus. And on a city bus, they run into a young couple. And they don't have exact change for the bus. They're like trying to $5. Does anybody have change for this? And Josh asks them, are you two going to. Jesus Christ, I hate these bar names. Are you two going to Secrets? I'll give you a guess how that's spelled, by the way.

[B]

Is it with a kid? Oh, sea.

[A]

Yep. Secrets. Yep, that's the one.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

Are you two going to Secrets? And like everyone on the whole bus was going to Secrets. They thought. So the guy that they just met he looked at. You know, he looked over and she shrugged. That guy looked over at his girlfriend, and he said, yeah. And so Josh said, sit down. I'll get it. And he gave the driver exact change. Josh said, I'll take care of it. And then the young couple they meet said, oh, all right, fine. We'll buy you a drink when we get there. They said, yeah, great. Sounds good. We're all on vacation. Who cares? You know what I mean?

[B]

Long Island. Even swap?

[A]

Even swap. So they sat down in an empty seat next to the couple they just met. Sat down next to Jeannie and Josh. You know, Jeannie's looking smiling and happy, and they're on vacation. You know, that's the way it is. So. The woman from the couple they meet says, I'm Erica, and this is my husband Bej. Bj? Benjamin Bej. Hi, I'm Bej.

[B]

I'm slang for blowjob.

[A]

Yeah. Don't call your husband Beej.

[B]

Never.

[A]

Jesus Christ. They kept saying it. Beej.

[B]

Just call him Benny, for Christ's sake. What's the problem, Ben? It's fine.

[A]

Beej. No, BJ's bad enough, but Beej is even worse.

[B]

That's like a douchebag.

[A]

It's a douchebag who got a blowjob. What happened last night? Gave me a good beeger.

[B]

She gave me a bead, and I went on home.

[A]

Yep. And she said, I'm Erica, with a K, by the way.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

So, you know, like, am I writing you a card? I just met you. Shut up. I don't care. What are we talking about?

[B]

I'm not at a gas station looking for your little license plate.

[A]

Fuck off. This is stupid. And, well, she says, I'm Jeannie, and this is Josh. And so the people she met are Erica, Elaine, originally, Grace. Now it's Sifret. But it's Erica, Elaine, Grace. She was born February 3, 1978. So younger than them by far. She's from Pennsylvania. Only child of Charlotte and Gerald Grace. Gerald was a very successful contractor. So she grew up with some money, doing well. Doing very well. She grew up in Altoona, Pennsylvania. Friends say she wasn't spoiled, but she always had every goddamn thing she needed, which is spoiled. If you grew up poor, that's spoiled.

[B]

What exactly is spoiled, though?

[A]

What would spoiled be? I don't like the color of my Corvette anymore. Buy me a new one. Is that spoiled? To me, getting everything you need is spoiled.

[B]

That's spoiled as fuck.

[A]

That's spoiled. If you're poor, that's Spoiled? Yeah. We grew up poor, so that's spoiled.

[B]

Poor fuck.

[A]

Look at this guy with school clothes. Look at this fucking asshole. That's how we grew up.

[B]

Oh, God. Jesus.

[A]

So Erica does really well. She's a really good basketball player. Like, excellent basketball. This is so weird, because our other show this week was a basketball player, too. She's an honor student. Academically, she does well. A friend of hers said, you couldn't have met a nicer, more polite person than Erica. She was dedicated to her sport just as she was to her studies.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Wow. Can't beat that. But she also, under the surface, as a lot of perfectionist people have. Like that. She's got a lot of disorders going on inside of her. Because that's what makes you act like that. Otherwise, why are you acting like that? You know what I mean? There's a sickness to success.

[B]

Yeah. There's also you're a people, and you're insecure as a child, as you grow up. And if you're just being rewarded, you don't understand how to fix those insecurities, so they just fester and get worse. Successful people are a fucking nightmare.

[A]

That, too. Yeah, that too. And also, usually this type of thing is the perfectionist mother wanting you to be burned. Or father, either one. But I'm thinking he's a contractor. He's probably gone a lot. So I'm saying your mother's probably around more with her, just that kind of thing to make her like that. She's got some anxiety. She's got OCD issues. She. This. I feel bad because this is exactly. I've done this a million times. Stuff like this. She wouldn't go in for dinner unless she hit 10 free throws in a row. Yeah, that's the type of shit that I have going on in my life all the time. She'd have to do things 20 times, step away, look at them, and do them one more time. Sister, I feel you.

[B]

I had a basketball hoop I would put in the street, and we were on our street connected with another street so it ran into it. And as cars would pass us, I would try to get three layups in before the car went by.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. If I could do that, then I'd go inside and I could never fucking do it.

[A]

Jimmy's been outside since 1986. He's recording this from the intersection. If you hear a whoosh every once in a while, it's just a car flying by.

[B]

Working on three layouts now.

[A]

And her father was the one who was really relentless. About her success. You have to do this, you have to do that. And this is. A lot of times successful people put these weird things on their kids where you have to be as good as I am. And it's like, hey, calm down.

[B]

Sometimes better than me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to do more. When he didn't think she was getting enough playing time on her basketball team, she moved the family to a different school district.

[B]

What?

[A]

To get her in a different school? He's a contractor. He built a 10 bedroom house with an indoor basketball court and hired her a private coach.

[B]

You just play here?

[A]

Yeah. I don't know what. That's crazy. So she ends up getting a partial athletic scholarship to go to Mary Washington College, which is now University of Mary Washington. This is in Fredericksburg, Virginia. And she was there, she was an honor student. And she became one of the in the women's division. One of the nation's best three point shooters.

[B]

Dang.

[A]

Yeah. She graduated cum laude with a bachelor's degree in history and political science. Sure, she is an achiever, this one.

[B]

You bet.

[A]

Her friends say she's normal, level headed, active and outgoing, but has a hard time making friends due to her anxiety and kind of OCD shit. And has a real inferiority complex. She's terrified of letting her parents down for a long time. It feels like she meets a guy named Benjamin Adam Siffret. S I R R I T. The Beeger. That's the guy.

[B]

The beej.

[A]

The beej. October 21, 1977. He's born, he's from Iowa and his parents are Elizabeth and Craig. He grew up moving around the Midwest and Texas. His dad was an executive and got jobs in different places. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you something better to feed your cat with with. Smalls.

[B]

Smalls.com.

[A]

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[B]

Now back to the show.

[A]

Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to shop with Thrive Market. Thrive Market.com that's the one Jimmy. Thrive Market.com you will be thriving with Thrive Market. Healthy is hard. We get that the Thrive Market will help you make it easy. You can just with the Small swaps, little things that you can swap out can help so much. Trusted ingredients and personalized shopping that fits your lifestyle. Thrive Market is the easiest way to make better choices without feeling overwhelmed. All delivered straight to your door and they really do they have so much stuff. Just little things you can swap out like sour candy, gluten. So they have these awesome chips that are really good that I didn't even know were gluten free and I'm eating them like crazy. I love their tortilla chips that they have others. The snack stuff, it's so good and not terrible for you. That's what's great. You can actually eat better and do better with Thrive Market. And it's so simple to do. It really is. I mean it's. You don't want it to feel like all these sacrifices. You want to feel like you're living your life. You work all day, you come home, you want to sacrifice more. No, we need something decent. So healthy living, it's not. Doesn't have to be boring, doesn't have to be expensive. Thrive Market will get you where you need to go. If eating better feels overwhelming, that's because you're not shopping in the right place. Yeah. I'm telling you right now, healthy eating does not have to feel like it. A restrictive diet, saying no all the time. Thrive Market makes it easy to say yes to thousands of healthier versions of your favorites without giving up on taste or breaking the bank. They make it easy. Scan anything with the barcode scanner that they have and it instantly swaps it out for a better version of that. That's so cool. So you don't have to go searching for it. Personalized shopping is also great that they have here. Instead of the struggle of trying to figure out what foods fit your health goals, Thrive Market will do the hard work for you easily. Shop by 90 plus diet and lifestyle filters to find exactly what you want without second guessing. High protein meals, low sugar meals, GLP1 friendly options or gluten free staples. AI powered cart remembers your habits, cutting decision fatigue out too. You don't have to think because Thrive Market knows what you like, so they'll bring it with you. And also, Thrive Market ensures the food you eat has the healthiest quality, the highest quality, the healthiest quality, and free of 600 plus sketchy ingredients. So every choice is verified by experts. And it feels intentional and safe. And it's great. Thrive Market's great. It's an easy way to shop. Really excellent for finding the healthy stuff to switch out. We use it. I think you should use it. Honestly. That's our advice as friends. Go out and get Thrive Market. Join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com small town murder for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift.

[B]

And now back to the show that.

[A]

Happens in high school. He was on the swim team and all of that. He also worked at a locksmith shop and he'll have some skills there. He ended up wanting to get into the service. Oh, not service, the service. Yeah, way different service industry. No, not waiting tables, holding the gun. So he took his entrance exams for the Navy or for the Marines, I guess his scores were really high. So he basically ended up going into the Navy instead to go to SEAL training because his scores were so high.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So yeah, in 1996 he did the basic underwater demolition training the SEALs do in California. Out of 60160 candidates who started, only 18 graduated. And BJ was one of those guys.

[B]

BJ is one of 18.

[A]

The beger is going to be a SEAL here. They said other SEALs that his work ethic was crazy. He's just drinking energy shakes and fucking doing that. They said that's what they were all doing, trying to keep up with the rigorous schedule. They said he'd stay up, drink until 3am, get two hours of rest and then be the best guy on a 10 mile run.

[B]

God damn.

[A]

He's like Ric Flair, this fucking guy. What? He is, except his dicks in his pants.

[B]

He can just accept punishment self induced.

[A]

He received a special award for being the top performer of his class. Then he completed 25 weeks of advanced medic training, including time working as an EMT in New York City and a month in the emergency room. So he's seen some gross shit too. Now a guy, a man who served with bj, that guy's wife described BJ as meek around women, though you wouldn't think this guy would be meek, but he is. She said he was very shy around girls. Not your typical ladies man. He wasn't violent. Never ever violent. The craziest thing I ever knew about him was maybe driving fast. So he meets Erica in a bar in Fredericksburg and you know, they're just friends for a while. He's in the Navy so he's not really concentrating on having a girlfriend right now. Then a few months later they ran into each other at a party. Now, hey, I know you. Yeah, blah blah, blah. They talked and his friend's wife said, I've never seen him like that. For a girl, he was goofy over her. Oh, I don't think goofy even describes it because I mean, if you said give me a word for what this is, what I'm about to describe, it wouldn't be goofy, it'd be insane. Stupid would come to mind. Ill conceived. Several. I could keep going.

[B]

I'm on the edge of my fucking seat already.

[A]

James. They start dating and within three weeks they fly to Vegas and get married.

[B]

Idiot.

[A]

Three. Yeah. Fucking moron. Fucking moron. Dipshit. Dipshit's dumbass.

[B]

Very charitable. Because he's about to give away all his shit.

[A]

Creakiness. We could go on and on and on. So they got married at the Silver Bell Wedding Chapel. Didn't tell either of their families.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

A heart.

[B]

They're going to fucking know. Yeah.

[A]

What are you thinking? Don't do that. BJ called his parents afterwards to tell him he married a woman that they've never met before.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Erica's father, who obviously had all of her. You know, had a lot of her shit mapped out. When it seems like here dreamed of walking his daughter down the aisle. And no. In her scrapbook Erica wrote. Best decision I ever made. You are my sunshine.

[B]

Oh my God. Don't tell your dad. My sunshine.

[A]

Beej. Whenever you add Beej to anything, it's gonna make it sound really stupid.

[B]

Isn't that the guy from Righteous Gemstones? Isn't that what they called him? Beej?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that was. Cause they're picking on him.

[B]

That's the idea. He's a cuckoo.

[A]

Yeah, Beej. So the old beger gets sent to Arkansas. The Navy sends him to Arkansas for training. Which I don't know how the Navy would have any interest in. Arkansas. There's no fucking water there. What are we doing?

[B]

Mississippi over there. Is the Arkansas river big enough?

[A]

It's the Mississippi's on Arkansas. I don't know what they're doing in there. Erica lost it though. She can't not be around Beej, so. Oh yeah. She was convinced he was cheating in Arkansas. Don't worry. Yeah, yeah. You have more teeth in the whole state. What are you doing? You're fine. Don't worry. When he went to Alaska for cold weather training, she tracked him down and showed up at the base. You are not allowed to do that at all. It was against. It was against regulations for them to even tell their spouses where they were. Nevermind. Have them show up there. So he's breaking many rules.

[B]

Erica, you're gonna get me so fired.

[A]

Oh my God. BJ had sent her coded messages telling her exactly where he was. And they got caught. He got in trouble. Erica said. I became deeply troubled and fearful of losing his love. I was so afraid he would leave me. By 2000 he is kicked out of the Navy, he gets a bad conduct discharge. Here he's out. Out. He. For several things. Absent without leave. Awol. Can't do that. My friend who says, starts stories with, so I was AWOL from the Navy, right? Italian guy from Philly. I know, right? So you go, so I'm AWOL from the Navy, right? And you know that story is gonna go somewhere wild. It starts out with, so I'm AWOL from the Navy. That's not even the story. Yeah, that was just a suspicion.

[B]

I'm already underground.

[A]

Yeah. Insubordination, poor performance, wearing unauthorized insignia, whatever that was what he put on his. Put like a Mickey Mouse hat on him or something, but British brigade or some shit. He had his Navy enlisted classification and his 5326 Combatant Swimmer Seal revoked. Oh, so then that's bad. So they moved to Pennsylvania, her hometown of Altoona.

[B]

Altoona.

[A]

That's where they go. They open up a. Like a. Kind of like a curio shop, almost like a collectible shop. Basically a scrapbook store, they called it, with a bunch of shit called Memory Lane. L A I N E. Because her middle name's Elaine. And her father, of course, supported it. Now, not only does her father do it, but she does a bunch of ebay collectible shit that she does. You know what her extensive memorabilia collection is? It's from one particular place.

[B]

McDonald's.

[A]

Hooters. Worse.

[B]

What?

[A]

At least McDonald's is an iconic brand Hooters have.

[B]

Other than the shorts and the top.

[A]

Hooters was just a drunk guy in Florida that his Jimmy Buffett record was skipping and he had a second to think about something. He goes, what if chicks with tits serve me terrible food? I think I'd pay for that. And then beers on tap. And beer's on tap. Plenty of them too. Wow.

[B]

The memorabilia of a Hooters is die cast, nascars. And the outfit. That's it.

[A]

And the hat that stupid. They had a hat, the tangerine hat that says Hooters on it, that they wear, that has the braided rope on it, looks like a cap, you know, like a sea hat. So they're very. People call it her, like, obsession with Hooters. Hooters memorabilia obsession. That'll come up later, Trust me. So they went on a two month trip to South America as newlyweds. That was financed by the family. Of course, Erica later admitted that the whole point of going there, why they said they wanted to go to South America, was she developed huge addictions to Xanax and Valium and in South America, she could buy as much of it as she wanted and smuggle it back into the country so she could have a giant supply of Xanax and Valium.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

So BJ gets even fucking weirder. As if being named BJ is not weird enough.

[B]

What's his obsession in South America?

[A]

Well, in addition to the Hooters memorabilia that she collects, he got a giant swastika on his chest. They called it Ed Norton American History X. Fucking swastika on his chest. Enormous. Are you serious?

[B]

Any size swastika.

[A]

It's crazy tattoo. No, he just drew it on with a Sharpie. Yeah.

[B]

You just said got it on his chest.

[A]

Well, I mean, what else do you do? Any fucking swastika is too big. First of all, any swastika.

[B]

Any swastika tattooed on you is crazy. Crazy.

[A]

A giant one on your chest. Yeah, that should be automatically. We should be able to put you down for that. I feel like.

[B]

Yeah. You can't have.

[A]

All of our grandfathers and great grandfathers had no. You're fucking back of the head. Sorry.

[B]

Unless it's life without. And you're just trying to survive. That is not okay. If you're gonna be in prison forever anyway.

[A]

And you're just trying forever. You're trying not to get bashed in by the.

[B]

You're just trying to suck wind until your body stops still.

[A]

No.

[B]

Feel free. But if you're gonna be in society.

[A]

No, no. They both became obsessed with Hitler, obviously.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. They kept exotic pets, including boa constrictors, pythons, and a cobra. Yeah, they had pythons named Bonnie and Clyde. Fitting. They had a cobra named Hitler, fittingly. And another snake that they named hiv. So they're just assholes.

[B]

These people are trash. James. I'm gonna say it.

[A]

Oh, they are trash. They go to Hooters all the time. That's their Hooters place.

[B]

Hooters, Hitler and snakes. Oh, my. That's it.

[A]

This is Hooters, Hitler, and hiv. The three H's. The three H's. I think Hooters, Hitler, and HIV should definitely be the name of this episode. I think it is. I think it is. So they would go there. She would try to trade tank tops with the waitresses. Like, I'll trade you mine. She tried to buy them off of. Right off their tits. She's trying to buy.

[B]

I'm going to need you to take those out and cover them with my shirt.

[A]

Yeah. They would drink like crazy. They're snorting mad pills. They'd Use Ecstasy and coke all the time, too. To supplement their Valium and Xanax, they started burglarizing Hooters restaurants. He's a locksmith, remember?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So they started doing that.

[B]

And all she wants is the merch cabinet.

[A]

Yeah. A journalist named M. William Phelps, who wrote Cruel Death about this case, said, I always describe those two as hypergolic. Hypergolic. Rocket fuel. By themselves, they're no problem, but when you put them together, they explode. Like they were both just looking for this other person to the other part of the primer that hardens it. You know what I mean? The activator.

[B]

JB Weld.

[A]

The B. GE Weld. The BJ Weld, you mean? Not the JB it's the JB it's the BJ Weld. Then, Eric, she started becoming abusive toward Erica. She later said she told people that he was mentally and physically abusive. A racist, obviously.

[B]

Clearly.

[A]

Clearly. And a control freak. So in early May of 2002, BJ asked Erica if he could kill her family. And she said, no, I can't have that. At one point, Erica became pregnant. And bj, this is what Erica said. According to her. She told people that he said, get an abortion or I'm gonna dig it out of you.

[B]

Ew.

[A]

So she had an abortion.

[B]

Dig it.

[A]

Dig it. Go in there with a spoon. Late 2001, they get burned in a Coke deal. They go to buy a bunch of coke, turns out to be Ajax. So BJ is super mad. He starts planning to. It's a woman who sold him the coke. He starts planning to kill this woman and dissolve her body in acid. He purchased acid from a hardware store and tested it on a rat. And by the next day, it was almost completely dissolved. So he was like, this is gonna work.

[B]

It'll work.

[A]

Yeah, I know a mob guy who talked about that. People doing that with skulls. And it works, too.

[B]

It's gross. Getting burned in a Coke deal. James finding out that that's Ajax is getting burned. Indeed.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

That's a terrible way to find out.

[A]

So we don't know any other way about that. We don't know how that worked out. Saturday, May 25, 2002, though, they arrived in Ocean City, which was when our other guys were there, too. Jeannie and Josh, they check into a luxury penthouse at the Rainbow Condominiums owned by a friend of Erica's dad. Erica snorts some pills, drinks some beer. They go out to eat. Guess where. Jimmy Hooters. They got a Hooters here. I'm going Y' all got a Hooters? Y' all got a Hooters? She tried to trade tank tops with the waitresses. Of course, no takers. 9pm they board a city bus to go to Secrets, and that's when they meet Josh and Jeannie. They said, hey, we'll buy your drinks when we get there. They all go to Secrets together. I don't think Josh and Jeannie know who they're hanging out with.

[B]

I don't think so either.

[A]

Hey, open your shirt for a sec. Just check if we went down to the giant swastika.

[B]

If we went down to the beach first, we'd know exactly who you are.

[A]

You'd know everything. So 9:30pm to 2:00am they party, they drink. Erica's ducking out in the parking lot to snort more Xanax. BJ vomits at the bar. Wow. He doesn't even get thrown out for that. A bouncer then catches BJ trying to pick the lock on the ATM and tells them to get the fuck out. Erica threatens to kill the bouncer, of course. Obviously.

[B]

2:00Am that's what Hooters used to be. You guys.

[A]

That's Hooters.

[B]

You could throw up on the floor.

[A]

That's Secrets. That's Secrets. Oh, yeah, they went secret. That's drinking in Secrets. They were already ate at Hooters. No, they're already. He threw up from the Hooters. That's not the booze. That's the hooters. So at 2am they return. I don't know why Josh and Jeanne would still want to hang out with these people who had to leave the club because they got kicked out. That's crazy. They returned to Josh and Jeanne's condo to grab some weed. Josh and Jeannie brought some weed with them. I knew I liked these people. There's four wine glasses out later, so we know they all had some wine. Then they walk two blocks over to the Siffritz penthouse. By 2:30, they're arriving at the penthouse. They keep drink. They're drinking. They're smoking weed. Josh and Jeannie change into bathing suits for the hot tub. Okay, so everything seems to be going swell here. Good times. 3:01. Erica says her purse is missing. My purse is missing. Which any nightmare girl who's on a lot of drugs, their purse is always missing. Their phone's missing. Their purse is missing.

[B]

It's always around 2, 3am too, when.

[A]

They'Re on drugs and drunk. That's what I mean, their purse. And I'm not saying that to be sexist. If it was a guy, if they had a purse, it'd be missing. Trust me. Here's how I am. His wallets.

[B]

Usually what I do with my wallet. If it's not in your back pocket, bro, then I don't know what to tell you.

[A]

So she calls 911 at 3:00am, 3:01am and her voice is slurred. And she says, there are people in the house who I don't know. And my purse is suddenly missing, and I'm afraid I'm going to have a robbery here in an upstairs bedroom. And they don't know where I am.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So 911 says, okay. And she says, there are people in my apartment. And the dispatcher says, ma', am, did you want the police? And she says, yes, I did, but I think there's a third person on the line right now, so I don't know.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

They give her another number and then she hangs up. No address was ever given. No police ever responded to this.

[B]

She never called back.

[A]

Just sounded like a drunk lady who lost her purse essentially called. They probably get that a lot in a resort town.

[B]

This is not the lost and found.

[A]

Yeah, that is, until a couple days later when Josh and Jeannie. No one hears from them.

[B]

What?

[A]

So they're reported missing and people. No one can find them, like, literally, the Ocean City, Maryland, police start printing up flyers to look, wanting a lost person here. Lost people. Then let's fast forward Almost a week. May 31, 2002. This is just after midnight. A silent alarm is tripped at the Hooters on 123rd street in Ocean City. This is insanity. Nice.

[B]

It's not there anymore, though, right? It's closed.

[A]

Maybe not. Who knows?

[B]

I think they all closed, right?

[A]

Did they? No, I think they're still open. They claim bankruptcy, but they're never closing.

[B]

They're restructuring.

[A]

You can't keep Hooters down, Jimmy. What are you talking about?

[B]

I think they're all going away. Probably.

[A]

Who knows?

[B]

It's crazy. That business model didn't have longevity.

[A]

Weird. Hey, want to feel like you're Florida trash all the time? Come in with Hooters. Want to come?

[B]

Objectify a woman?

[A]

Well, yeah. There's strip clubs everywhere.

[B]

Yeah, but those very successful. These women are not asking to be. You know what I mean?

[A]

Hooters walks a strange line where they're like, hey, look, we got chicks in short shorts with their big racks hanging out. But it's a family place. Bring your kids.

[B]

How dare you.

[A]

Older. So weird. Yeah, don't look at Them like that, but bring your kids. It's the weirdest business model of all.

[B]

These are nice women.

[A]

They're nice girls. So the officers who respond pull up and find these two fucking idiots, but Erica and the beejer loading merchandise into a Jeep Cherokee.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

T shirts, sweatshirts, hats, racks of cigarettes they're putting in there.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Bj, when they pull up, he realizes, fuck, we can't run. They're right here, the cops. So he puts his hands up and he goes, can we just put the stuff back? No, you can't. Me? Yeah. He said, come on.

[B]

All right, we won't take it.

[A]

Okay, fine, never mind.

[B]

If we don't take it, then it's not illegal, right?

[A]

Yeah, I'll fix the lock I just broke. Don't worry about it. Holy shit. So they search BJ. They find a 9 millimeter handgun tucked in his pants. Fully loaded. One in the chamber. Wow. Oh, yeah, in the chamber, ready to go. A shoulder holster that was empty because it's in his pants. He's. This is how dumb he is. He's got a holster on him and he puts the gun in his pants. I don't know. I don't ask questions.

[B]

I'm gonna put this next to the most important part of my body, even.

[A]

Though I have the exact thing that it should be safely contained in.

[B]

It's designed, attached to my person. Put it next to my nuts.

[A]

A hunting knife. They search erica. She's got a.357 Smith Wesson revolver tucked in the back of her jeans. That's a hand cannon. Shit, a buck knife clipped to the front of her pants. What are these people? Fucking Crocodile Dundee in the outback? What's happening?

[B]

What is this?

[A]

Inside the Jeep, they find another.40. A loaded.45 caliber handgun in the center console. Ski masks, zip ties for handcuffs, gloves, tape, lock picking supplies. Erica starts hyperventilating and tells the officer she's having a panic attack and needs her Xanax and Paxil from her purse. Which you shouldn't be drinking and doing coke and all that.

[B]

Probably shouldn't be doing both of those at the same time either.

[A]

Yeah, if you're doing the serotonin uptake, rehab, whatever the fuck it is, you shouldn't be doing that.

[B]

These Bonnie and Clyde are more savage than Bonnie and Clyde. They had.

[A]

They're crazy.

[B]

Clyde had a pretty nasty gun, but I think she just carried a.22 or something.

[A]

Oh, no, these people are. This is a hardcore. This is.350 fucking serial killer kits. They have Here. The officer said okay and went to go get her medication out of her purse. Now, I don't know if that is just to be able to search her purse without anything. So either way, he opens the pouch and starts digging and he finds four spent.357 shell casings. One live round. Two Virginia driver's licenses that don't belong to Erica or B.J. uh oh, they do belong to Joshua Ford and Martha Crutchley, though. Old Genie, a sergeant arrived on the scene and he had just seen the missing persons flyer for these people that he's looking at their driver's licenses right now. So the detective said, the hair stands up in the back of your neck. We knew we had a bad situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All of this from. There's a disturbance at the Hooters. That's unexpected.

[B]

The silent alarm.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Could just be the wind rattling the door. Nope, it's these dipshits.

[A]

It's these. Also in the purse, Josh and Jeannie, Social Security cards, a Bally Total Fitness membership card with Josh's photo and a blood stained ring. This is not good. So they go back to the Rainbow condominiums where the couple, where they were staying here, these two idiots, Erica and the Beeger. And the couple's missing IDs means they can go there without a warrant and search for them because they say they might have missing people. So they do. And they were hoping they'd be like tied up in the back with the zip ties or something. But the one cop said, going down the hallway, we didn't know if we were going to find our missing persons or whether we were going to find more suspects. They get in there, everything looks clean, nothing looks clean. But then they do kind of a more. Just look around. There's no people now. They're like, okay, let's look in more detail. And they see something on the coffee table which is two partially flattened bullets, dollar bills or money of some kind rolled up to snort with white powder. And a stack of photographs. Right on top of the photographs is Josh and Jeannie Crutchley. Smile and pictures that were taken. The cop said it nearly knocked us over. We expected to find crucial evidence. We never expected crucial evidence like that to just be sitting out at that point. It was like, well, I think we know what happened here. I think we got this all locked down pretty much. So they bring in crime scene technicians, they find that there's a brand new door on the bathroom, brand new. Fresh paint on the walls, cleaning supplies all over the floor, blood stains still found on the countertop. Underside of the counter floor, the floor. Under the vanity, the back of the vanity drawer. Under the mirror, the baseball. All the places that murderers don't think to clean.

[B]

All the places that gets everywhere. Fucking. You gotta pry the baseboards up. You've got so much work to do.

[A]

When a murderer. Murder is hard work, asshole.

[B]

It's not gonna be lazy.

[A]

Not you, asshole. Murderer. Asshole. If you're gonna be lazy, this isn't a gig for you.

[B]

That's why Dexter lined the whole fucking room, man.

[A]

See how much he put into that? That's what you gotta do. Pathetic.

[B]

Or you rebuild.

[A]

Yeah. Under the base. Yeah. Under the hot tub Faucet. Under the hot tub. Step on a sailboat. Candle holder on the window. And in the shower.

[B]

So much blood.

[A]

A dried line of blood between the tile and the vanity. Toe kick. A piece of human scalp with dark hair still attached, found in the sink drain.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

More hair tissue and coagulated blood in the drier Lint trap. A patched hole in the wall that went completely through to the bedroom. Josh's palm print on the window. They think when he's trying to escape. All of these samples match the DNA of either Josh or Jeannie, by the way.

[B]

Oh, boy. He had a dryer lint trap. That's the first time I've ever heard that.

[A]

They washed their clothes. Hair is still on them. The detective said, the crazy thing is we have what represents one loading of a gun, and we have all the empty casings and one round left over, and we have all the bullets. It's just crazy. And you never get that in a murder case. You never get everything. This is a dream. They just lined it up. This is like an exercise in a class for detectives. Oop. You found all the evidence. Look at you.

[B]

Look, James, this is how important antidepressants and Xanax are. You can go in my purse and find everything you need to convict me. Just get me my fucking pills.

[A]

Get me my shit, please. I need it now.

[B]

Addiction's crazy.

[A]

It's wild. So BJ immediately asks for a lawyer. Doesn't say a fucking word. Erica says a lot of words. Yeah, yeah. She's a mess. And she gives confessions, contradictory statements. It's wild. She talked to everybody. Every cop who would listen to her.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Some of them didn't line up. One of the detectives said it was really pulling teeth with this girl. She didn't give you anything until she thought you had something you already. You already knew. She thought you already knew what she'd tell you. So they had to bullshit her, basically. First she said she didn't know the missing couple at all. Then they said, well, we have the IDs. And she said, well, maybe BJ found them somewhere. But after hours of interrogation, she admitted Josh and Jeannie went to the penthouse. When they asked her about the probability of them being alive right now, she said 50. 50? Why would she even say that again? Eventually she agreed to take them to the dumpsters where the bodies had been disposed of. Eventually, she admits they're dead and they killed them. Yeah, this is in Delaware. Oh, they drove states away on the ride to Delaware. She is acting wild. The detective said Erica was sitting in the car right next to me, and she didn't seem concerned at all about this double homicide. She was more concerned about how I felt about her. Did I think she was pretty? Did I think she was a good person? She had no remorse for these victims whatsoever. She's like Kelly Cochran. That's exactly what she reminds me of. If you guys look up Kelly cochran shit on YouTube, she's flirting with these cops. She's. Multiple murder charges, all this. She's trying to get the cops to want to fuck her. It's weird.

[B]

Do you think I'm pretty?

[A]

Do you think, how do you feel about me is what I like to know?

[B]

Do you like my hair like this?

[A]

Am I a good person or bad? No. Oh, okay. So just before they arrived, that's when they get a call saying, there's so much murder scene shit in this penthouse, so she's guilty as shit. So he said. The cop said he knew she was lying. He starts yelling at her. And then she broke down and says exactly what happened. She said, this is where we threw them at the dumpsters. Quote, we cut the heads off the arms and the legs.

[B]

50. 50.

[A]

50. So the cops said that was a double take. It was like, what did you just tell me you dismembered these people? The dumpsters had already been emptied, but the police tracked the contents to a landfill in Delaware. Yeah, and we'll talk about that. Here's the story. Okay? BJ and Erica started accusing Josh and Jeannie of stealing Erica's purse. They seem like purse thieves, those two. BJ grabbed his gun, which is Erica's.357 revolver, forced them to strip naked at gunpoint, demanding to know where the purse is. Probably not down their pants, I wouldn't think, right? So Josh and Jeannie managed to break away and barricade themselves in the master bathroom. Josh tried to open the window, hoping they could climb onto the balcony and get somebody's attention. But it wouldn't budge. So that's why the palm print was found on the glass. It was him trying to open it. Erica said she ran out onto the balcony where she could see through the bathroom window, and she watched Josh and Jeannie cowering inside. BJ asked her, what do you want me to do? And Erica said her response was, this took a while to come out, but she finally said, what happened. She said she told him, just fucking do it. And she clarified, kill him. Just kill him is what she meant. So BJ Fired through the bathroom door. The first shot hit Josh in the shoulder. Then BJ kicked the door in with a lot of force. The doorknob dented the metal corner bead on the drywall by over an inch, so he kicked it the fuck in. Now, Josh has also been in the army. He's not a pussy or anything here. He told BJ that. Why would you do this to a fellow veteran? He tried to play that. And BJ said, see you later, motherfucker, and shot him in the head. Erica said Joshua didn't die immediately. He was gurgling, and there was blood coming out of his mouth. Jeannie was curled up in a fetal position on the bathroom floor, kind of hiding behind Josh's body, essentially. So BJ fired the gun at her. He missed the first time. No wonder why he got kicked out of the seals.

[B]

That's why he got kicked out.

[A]

Jesus. The bullet went through the wall and into the bedroom. That's the one he patched over and repainted. Then he got closer, put the gun to her shoulder, and fired down through her body, which went through her lungs.

[B]

Oh, my God. With a.357.

[A]

Yup. But that is not how she died. Erica said BJ told her to go outside and check if the stolen items, her purse. Had been thrown off the balcony. When she came back up, BJ told her to use the knife to make sure Jeannie was dead. So Erica stabbed Jeannie twice in the side. And then BJ told Erica her purse and all of her stolen shit is actually under the bed. And he put them there.

[B]

What the fuck?

[A]

This was a setup that he did.

[B]

He did this to be able to kill people.

[A]

Yeah, and get her on board with it. If, you know your partner's so unstable that she will want blood because her purse is missing, I guess that would work. I don't know if I buy this, but who knows? But now they're like, what do we do? There's two dead people here. What the fuck? It's Memorial Day weekend. Not like we can take them out the front in a carpet or anything. There's 300,000 people here, so can't do that. So BJ said, okay, we got a plan. Around 4am, Erica said she went to the Dollar Tree and bought black garbage bags, which is a red flag. Immediately. At 4am, BJ was going to work in the bathroom. When she got back, he used knives and a hacksaw. Severed the heads, arms and legs from both bodies, wrapped the pieces in trash bags, plastic containers and military kit bags. At some point, BJ called her into the bathroom. She said he was completely naked. In one hand, he had Josh's head and he had Jeannie's in the other hand.

[B]

Oh, my word.

[A]

She said he had a full erection.

[B]

What?

[A]

Full erection? Two heads. And he said to her, quote, take a picture. I want to send it to my buddies. What buddies would want to see your dick and two heads?

[B]

I cannot believe this.

[A]

Jimmy, do you want to see either of those things?

[B]

Neither.

[A]

She then claimed Erica said she wouldn't do it. She then claimed that bj, oh, my God. Raped Jeannie's headless corpse.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And asked her to cook one of Josh's legs.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Which she said she would. So they loaded the body parts into the Jeep cherokee and drove 30 miles to Delaware, where they deposited the remains in a dumpster behind a Food lion grocery store.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

They said it won't if it smells. They have old food, it won't matter.

[B]

They'll just assume.

[A]

Yeah. Went home and went to sleep. Next day, they got cleaning supplies, did all of that. BJ scrubbed all the surfaces in the bathroom. Not all of them very well. Right. Patched the bullet hole in the wall and repainted. Lucky he's handy. This would be a totally different cleanup. The bathroom door had been destroyed. It's got a bullet hole in it and it's kicked in. So they went to Home Depot and bought a replacement.

[B]

He's got to buy a tape measure and everything. You got to know how big that tape measure is.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta make it plumb. This is crazy. So a Home Depot employee later said that Erica was carrying a triangular piece of wood, which was a chunk of the destroyed door. And the employee said, did she say anything to you about this triangular shaped piece of wood? And she said, do you believe that's all that's left of my door? And the employee said, that must have been some party. And she laughed. And said, I guess you could call it that.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

So then they go back to partying after this, really. Photos of everything. Everything. Pictures of eating pizza and crabs. Playing miniature golf.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tanning with a swastika on your chest. How did he. How did no one come up? And just. If I see a guy with a giant swastika tattoo laying with his eyes closed, he's going to awake to his fucking nose being driven into his fucking skull. I'm sorry. Fuck you. This guy's a fucking asshole.

[B]

He's gonna wake up terribly.

[A]

Tuesday, May 28th. Erica gets a new tattoo of a cobra on her left side, exactly where she stabbed Jeannie.

[B]

Were they out as swastikas?

[A]

I think they were all out. They're like iron crosses are all out this week. We don't have any.

[B]

We already tattooed our quota today.

[A]

In multiple photos, Erica is wearing something on her neck, and it's Josh Ford's ring on a. No, still caked in blood.

[B]

What is she doing?

[A]

Wednesday, May 29, they were back at a bar. They met a man named Todd Wright and eventually convinced him to call a female friend to join them. This woman, Melissa Sealing, agreed to have one drink. But she was talked back to going to the penthouse, that they had to help BJ get Erica upstairs in her drunken state. When they got inside, they said Erica's demeanor changed. She sobered up instantly and began showing Melissa her jewelry. Hey, look what I got, huh? Then Erica couldn't find her purse.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

She accused Todd and Melissa of stealing it. BJ pulled out a gun and became very, very angry. Melissa said. He said if we ripped him off like the other people who were here, he'd do the same thing to us that he did to them. Referring to the hole in the door, the bullet hole. And she noticed that the bathroom door was off its hinges and had a hole in it. So apparently Melissa had searched the entire couch earlier. The purse wasn't there, but after BJ moved a cushion, he found it. So they believed Erica had been moving it around to set it up. Then this is. How did Todd and Melissa get out of this situation? You know what they said? They said, we need to go fuck somewhere. We have to get out of here. We gotta go fuck.

[B]

I'm so horny.

[A]

Too horny to die. That's what they are. So the detectives said that's what really put all the dominoes in one line. They took what worked in the murder of Jeannie and Josh and applied that to Melissa selling because they got away with it. And they were going to do it again, I believe, if they weren't stopped, there were definitely more to come. Oh, these two natural born killers.

[B]

Absolutely unbelievable.

[A]

June 3rd, 2002. A landfill in Delaware. Mid-90s, by the way. Hot as fuck outside, 7:30am the detective said it's possible to get a conviction without a body. No body, no crime, you know that. But it's always a stronger case if you do. And until you have a body, the victim's family always holds out hope that someday that person's gonna come back. So they were like, this is gonna be a lot. It's a fucking landfill. This is gonna be a long day. They said the dig had barely begun when a bulldozer finds a human leg.

[B]

Oh, shit, it's Genie's leg.

[A]

Hours later, they find Josh's torso and both arms. That's all they ever found.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

So these poor people, their families, all they ever got back of Jeannie was a leg and a torso and arms.

[B]

And the rest of them is sitting there with coffee grounds and fucking diapers. That's fucked up.

[A]

Oh, it's horrible. Then they find a guy who was a Navy SEAL with Beej. And he said that this was. They had a conversation, a hypothetical one, about the best way to dispose of a body.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this guy said, BJ said he would put down plastic, chop off the limbs and head with a knife and place the body parts in separate bags. That's what he told me.

[B]

Yeah. That's the first step.

[A]

Yeah. They offer Erica a deal. If she cooperated and testifies against BJ and passes a polygraph confirming her aversion of events, they wouldn't prosecute her for murder. Her attorney said, Goddammit, take that. Jesus Christ. She shows up for the polygraph before the machine is hooked up. She does a pre interview or pre test interview with Secret Service agents who are there for some reason. Maybe Social Security cards got taken. That might be like currency. That might be what they do, they said. Apparently Erica believed whatever she said in the pre polygraph interview couldn't be used against her. But the deal only protected her statements made during the polygraph and not before. So she told the truth. This is when she finally said that. She told bj, just fucking do it. And she admitted that she was the one who told him to kill him. She also revealed that she was standing right behind BJ when he shot Josh in the head. She stabbed Jeannie with the knife, helped wrap and dispose of the body parts. And BJ had told her, boy, you really did A number on her throat. She never took the polygraph because the deal was off. Now they're like, no, no, no, we thought you were the secondary. You were just as involved. Nevermind. Now we're prosecuting you to the fullest extent. Thirteen count indictments, including two counts each of first degree murder. By the way, they're also gonna be charged with another robbery. Cuz they're suspected of stealing hats and T shirts from a Hooters in Spotsylvania, Maryland on May 11th.

[B]

I just can't help himself.

[A]

Can't help it. So BJ's trial comes up. I mean, what the fuck are you going to do? Their strategy is Erica's nuts. And she did everything and I had nothing to do with it. Yeah, good luck. They have all of this physical evidence, all of this. I mean, they're both just knee deep in everything you could imagine. They have his old friend saying that he told me he would chop shit up and do all of that. They have Melissa selling, talking about the missing purse game. And I'll do to you what I did to the others. And showing the bullet hole in the wall. You know it's not good. BJ takes the stand.

[B]

What does he have to say?

[A]

He said he'd been asleep in the car when the killings happened. And he only just helped to dismember and dispose of the bodies to protect his wife.

[B]

My Erica is out of her fucking mind.

[A]

Yeah. Now how did Erica, who's petite, had. She fucking kicked the door in so it went through the other wall. Ten hours of deliberation, seven woman, five man jury. They find him guilty of second degree murder on Jeannie and first degree assault. In the Josh Ford murder, they find him not guilty of all charges except accessory after the fact.

[B]

So she only gets one murder because she was standing behind him.

[A]

He. That's bj.

[B]

Shut the fuck up.

[A]

That's bj. Sentencing later. Now Erica says that they fucked her over, the Secret Service and all that, but they dismiss everything cause it was all in writing. She had a lawyer. She shouldn't have known better. Basically what she's really concerned is getting her shit back.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, she says she wants her belongings back that were confiscated after her arrest. Including dozens of Hooters restaurant tank tops. Not kidding. Diamond jewelry she wants. What is it? Hooters duffel bag. 30 hooters tank tops. Quote from my collection. Coach bags. A scrapbook of more than 20 items of jewelry, including a half carat diamond solitaire engagement ring, a gold wedding band, white gold tennis bracelet, white gold Antique diamond ring and a tag watch. They were like, if we don't need it for appeals or whatever in her trial, it's bad. I mean, she's got a pen pal that she's been writing that has all of her statements on it, too. I mean, she is just pretty fucked here. This is not wonderful. They say that she lured him. She said Erica Cifrin is on trial in this case and no one else. In other words, if she tries to blame it on Beger. No. They also emphasized the Maryland law of aiding and abetting. If someone assists a crime to the point of helping another succeed, they're as guilty as the ones themselves. Murder weapon belonged to her. Fingerprints were on the outside of the bathroom window. She was watching them. Victims IDs were in her purse. She wore a blood stained ring around her neck for days. She got a cobra tattoo in the same spot she stabbed Jeannie. Vacation photos show her smiling, eating crabs, and her quote, just fucking do it. Not great, man. They fight about the pictures, they fight about all that stuff. The defense strategy. BJ's crazy and he did it. All right, four hours of deliberation from the jury on the Jeannie, on the Josh Ford killing. They find her guilty of first degree murder.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Crutchley murder. They find her Jeannie's murder. They find her guilty of second degree murder. Also, theft, weapons charges and burglary related to Hooters.

[B]

She's getting hammered.

[A]

Yep. She was acquitted of using a handgun to kill Joshua Ford. The jury believes the aiding and abetting thing. Wow. Erica's mother said, I didn't see the evidence that way, but I guess they did. What are you talking about? She said, what the fuck? Okay, bj, Sentencing Judge Paul Weinstein comes out of retirement specifically to sentence him. And he says, hi, I'm Judge Weinstein. Why don't you pop that swastika?

[B]

AI, let's talk about. Let's talk about that chest piece.

[A]

He said, it's one of the few instances in 20 years when I disagree with the jury's verdict. This is on bj. This was nothing more than thrill killing for you and your wife. You're a butcher. You cut these people up for no good reason. And told bj, if not for master lawyering, you'd be facing a life sentence, you crazy Nazi asshole. May fuck off. 38 years in prison, that's not near enough. Yup. The judge also said, put a note in the file asking to be notified when he comes up for parole so he could personally oppose it. He hates this fucking guy Erica here, the judge says that she exercised control in the relationship, convincing him not to eat the victims and shit like that. So he says, you Xanax sniffing asshole may fuck off. Life plus 20 years.

[B]

That's pretty good.

[A]

Yup. Josh's ring gets returned to the family, by the way. Now on appeals, they both appeal a bunch. Their appeals are all exhausted. They're all fucked out. 2010, BJ files for divorce from prison.

[B]

What?

[A]

Why? These crazy kids can't make it. What chance do the rest of us have?

[B]

What's the problem?

[A]

2017, BJ can have a parole hearing, but he chooses not to have it. Smart. And so it's postponed for five years. April 2022, he has an hour 40 minute hearing and four representatives of the victims attended and said, go fuck yourself. Parole denied. His mandatory release date if he's not paroled is 2030. This guy will be on the street within four years. Holy shit, that's terrifying. Considering he's gonna come looking for us. Possibly, I don't know, 2024.

[B]

In my defense, I think that she.

[A]

Made you trash, B. Yeah, well, they made each other trash, I think.

[B]

No, your tattoo's stupid. Fuck you, man.

[A]

Yes, Erica was also denied parole in 2024.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The Worcester County State's attorney later said, I'm not aware of any case in the history of Worcester county as heinous as this before and certainly not since. It was just a horrible, horrible case and it lives with many of us still. The lead detective said, we know the rest of the parts were there. It was just we didn't have the resources to continue to dig and dig and dig. It haunts us that we worked for years but never found the heads. And we never had definite answer of how she was killed. It was the one thing we could never figure out. They didn't have scientific evidence of it. So there you go, everybody. That is. Ocean City, Maryland, very quickly. Netflix on the 26th. Monday. It'll be the only time. It comes out on Monday. Celebrate. It's good stuff. Shut up and givememurder.com get everything. Tickets to live shows. Nashville on February 21st. Get in there. Get your damn tickets right now. Patreon.com CrimeAndSports get you everything. $5 a month. You know the deal. This week, Old timey ads for crime and sports and some other stuff. And for small town murder. Dean Corll Part 2. 27 bodies out of the earth. And let's find out the John Wayne Gacy connection. Do that, you get Shout out at the end of the show. All the shows ad free. Keep coming back and hanging out with us. Please do that. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. By. Sam.