Jeepers Creepers Murder - Coldwater, Michigan

Summary

Podcast Summary: Small Town Murder – "Jeepers Creepers Murder - Coldwater, Michigan"

Introduction

In the episode titled "Jeepers Creepers Murder - Coldwater, Michigan," released on July 18, 2025, hosts James Pietragallo (A) and Jimmy Whisman (B) delve into a harrowing true crime story set in the small town of Coldwater, Michigan. Balancing thorough research with their signature comedic flair, James and Jimmy explore the dynamics of a seemingly tranquil community unraveling under the shadow of a tragic murder.

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Setting the Scene: Coldwater, Michigan [00:22 - 03:50]

Coldwater, located in Branch County, Michigan, is portrayed as a modestly sized town with a population of approximately 13,764. The median household income stands significantly below the national average at $45,021, and the median home cost is $178,700, about half of the national figure. The town's motto, "Live, Work, Play," epitomizes its attempt to foster a welcoming atmosphere, although opinions on its effectiveness vary.

Notable Quote:
A [05:00]: "When a town just doesn't try very hard for a motto, you get 'Live, Work, Play.' That's everything."

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Profiles: Marilyn Lee McClanahan and Dennis Henry Depew [09:00 - 16:00]

The narrative centers on Marilyn Lee McClanahan, born January 24, 1941, in Detroit, and her husband, Dennis Henry Depew, born June 13, 1943, in Sturgis, Michigan. Marilyn is depicted as a compassionate high school guidance counselor with advanced degrees from Michigan State University and Wayne State University. Her commitment to community and education contrasts sharply with Dennis, a quiet, detail-oriented individual who works as a property tax specialist for Michigan's Department of Treasury.

Notable Quotes:
A [10:25]: "Marilyn is doing some education, and she wants to work with kids in some way."
B [13:30]: "Person who doesn't know shit about me."

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The Marriage: From Bliss to Turmoil [16:00 - 24:00]

Marilyn and Dennis marry and have three children: Jennifer (1974), Julie (1976), and Scott (1982). Initially, their life seems idyllic, but cracks begin to emerge as Dennis becomes increasingly controlling and possessive. Marilyn's active social life and dedication to her work clash with Dennis's growing bitterness and withdrawal, leading to constant tension within the household.

Notable Quotes:
A [20:09]: "He would make, you know, he'd say sometimes that she's spending too much time at work or too much time."
B [23:17]: "Oh, boy."

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The Murder: Unfolding on Easter [37:12 - 39:15]

The climax of the story occurs on April 15, 1990, Easter Sunday. Marilyn is preparing for a family meal when Dennis arrives to pick up their children. Tensions escalate when Julie refuses to go with him, leading Dennis to violently attack Marilyn by throwing her down the basement stairs and brutally assaulting her in front of their children. Dennis then attempts to take Marilyn to the hospital but instead drives away, leading to her eventual discovery dead along a deserted road.

Notable Quotes:
A [39:32]: "He threw her down the fucking stairs."
B [39:33]: "Oh, boy."

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The Aftermath: Searching for Dennis [39:15 - 53:12]

Following the murder, Dennis disappears, leaving the community and authorities baffled. Despite extensive searches across Michigan and neighboring states, Dennis evades capture. He begins sending deranged letters blaming Marilyn and others for his actions, expressing no remorse and portraying himself as a victim. These letters contribute to the mystique and horror surrounding the case.

Notable Quotes:
A [54:18]: "He sent a total of 17 letters to various friends, family members, and acquaintances."
B [56:53]: "You're supposed to know that. It's your place, man."

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The Letters and the Hunt [53:12 - 70:48]

Dennis's letters reveal his unstable mental state, filled with conspiracy theories and religious justifications for his crime. He claims that Marilyn manipulated the children and the legal system against him, leading him to a point of desperation. Despite these communications, Dennis remains elusive, ultimately leading to a multi-state manhunt.

In March 1991, Dennis is featured on an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries," which inadvertently aids in his identification. The episode prompts a high-speed chase across state lines, culminating in a fatal confrontation where Dennis dies by suicide after a violent pursuit by law enforcement.

Notable Quotes:
A [59:47]: "When they're treated unfairly and when there's little or nothing to lose."
B [60:30]: "Did he really?"
A [69:14]: "He died with his pistol in his hand, his thumb on the trigger, and $16,000 in his pocket."

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Legacy: Connection to "Jeepers Creepers" [71:59 - 72:42]

The episode draws a parallel between this real-life case and the horror film "Jeepers Creepers," noting striking similarities in the opening scenes. Although the filmmakers have never acknowledged the connection, the resemblance adds a layer of cultural impact to the Coldwater murder case.

Notable Quote:
A [72:02]: "Apparently they said they've never acknowledged the connection, but the opening scenes of the film is the exact thing that Ray and Marie Thornton said on Unsolved Mysteries."

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Reactions and Reflections [73:57 - End]

The hosts reflect on the bizarre and tragic nature of the case, emphasizing the suddenness of Marilyn's murder and Dennis's subsequent downfall. They highlight the lasting trauma experienced by the family and the community, underscoring the episode's grim narrative.

Notable Quotes:
A [72:43]: "What a day that is."
B [73:57]: "Bye."

---

Conclusion

"Jeepers Creepers Murder - Coldwater, Michigan" offers a compelling exploration of a dark chapter in a small town's history. Through meticulous storytelling and candid commentary, James Pietragallo and Jimmy Whisman shed light on the complexities of marital discord, mental instability, and the ripple effects of violence on a community. This episode serves as a poignant reminder of the fragility of seemingly peaceful lives and the devastating impact of unchecked anger and despair.

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Note: This summary excludes promotional segments and advertisements interspersed throughout the episode, focusing solely on the substantive content related to the murder case.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

[B]

Yay and choo choo.

[A]

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co host, Jimmy.

[B]

I'm Jimmy Wisman.

[A]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another crazy insane edition of Small Town Murder Express. All aboard the murder train pulling away from the station. Let's do this. Ten pounds of murder in a two pound bag. This is a wild episode as usual. Head over to shutupandgivemerder.com get your tickets for live shows. Philly, DC, Seattle for sure. And a couple left in San Diego I believe, because we'd released some holds. So get in there. They might be gone by now. Shutupandgivemerder.com is where you get that. @patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus materials. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're gonna get a gigantic back catalog of hundreds of bonus episodes. New ones every other week. One Crime in sports, one Small Town Murder. And you get them all, baby. You get all of them. So this week, what you're gonna get for crime and sports, we're gonna do that Jeff Alm episode, football Player, with a crazy ending that we couldn't get to because Jimmy was sick last time. And then for Small Town Murder, we're gonna talk about the poop crews by popular poop cruise demand because people have been requesting it. We're going to get into the Titan submersible a little bit too while we're out in the water. So we'll do that. And in addition to all of that that you get for $5 a month, you also now get all three of our shows ad free if you subscribe through Patreon Crime and Sports, your stupid opinions and of course, Small Town Murder and Express all ad free. So do that patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the show.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

It's all we could possibly give you. That's it. Other than coming to your house, cleaning your gutters, this is all we have. So, yeah, I got. It's everything. So do that. That said, I think it's time to get into this, everybody. What do you say? Let's all sit back, let's all clear the lungs, arms to the sky, let's all shout Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Hey, let's go on a trip, shall we? All right, let's go. We are going to Michigan this Week. Yeah, we go heading up there where we'll be in Grand Rapids in September. So we'll be in Michigan. This is in cold water, Michigan. Cold water. One word. And this is very, very Southern Michigan. Kind of. Oh, down there, Central South. The county borders the, you know, Michigan border. So all the way south, it's about two hours to Detroit, about two and a half hours to Chicago, and about four hours to Arcadia, Michigan. Our last Michigan episode, episode 575, the lady in the Water, which was. That was the guy at the lake. Yeah. He said, oh, she must have fell off. She must have fell off the porch and then bounced eight times and then went in the. It was a crazy episode. This is in Branch County. Population of this town, 13,764. Not a huge place. There's some smaller towns around it. Median household income here, much lower than the national average. National Average is about 69,000. Here it is $45,021. So pretty low. And median home cost, also pretty low, $178,700, which is about half the rest of the country. So not too shabby. The motto here, again, this is, when a town just doesn't try very hard for a motto, you get live work, play. That's their motto. Yeah, that's everything.

[B]

The live, laugh, love of mottos of town.

[A]

That's exactly what it is on basic people's fucking refrigerator magnets till the end of time history here in 1829, Branch county was laid out. And in 1830, that's when towns started springing up. Coldwater and Bronson and a town called Quincy. Then they decided, well, we need a county seat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we've heard on Small Town Murder, if you're a longtime listener, you know.

[B]

It'S a big deal.

[A]

There's been bloodshed over who's getting the county seat. So this was a big deal. The first county seat was Masonville. And, you know, Coldwater didn't like that. And it was transferred to Coldwater in. From 1831 to 1840. Oh, that was Masonville. And then in 1842, Coldwater did it. They had a. I guess they had like a big competition, like they were. They had to like pitch themselves to see who's going to be the county seat. And Coldwater won. So there they go. Reviews of this town. Let's see. We've never been there. We don't know anything about it. Let's find out. Here's five stars. It is such a great town. I'm proud that I've been able to grow up here. It's really family friendly. Also, you can be able to just walk down the road to your friend's house.

[B]

You just be able to.

[A]

Just be able to. That is just a couple blocks away. Apparently this person's friend lives a couple blocks away. So that means everybody's friend lives a couple blocks away. Cold water makes you feel like you're at home. Even when your home is so far. Is so far away. They say four instead of far.

[B]

So far away.

[A]

So far away. So even if you're not from here, you'll be here and feel like you're from here.

[B]

Apparently, that's what it is.

[A]

That's what it sounds like. All right, five stars again. Small town, great for raising a family. Country living with a lot of nature, low crime rates and a sense of security.

[B]

There it is.

[A]

That sounds pretty good. And here's one star. Couple of one stars, quick. This is a complete opposite of these five stars, which it would be. Cold water is trash. Okay, that's coming in hot. City officials are incompetent and the town is going to be the weed hub of the state. Well, that sounds positive. Maybe I'll visit there, there. Maybe that's how you'll get me there. Otherwise, I have no interest in coming here. So there you go. Even with the extra revenue, the money is quickly squandered away. In addition, Clemens has taken control and ruined this town.

[B]

Old Clemens.

[A]

Old man Clemens took control and drove the whole toll joint into the ground. Just yells shit from his porch and goes back inside whole town. He's like boss hog, but in Michigan. And finally, one star. Branch County, Michigan had to be almost by far the worst county in the state of Michigan.

[B]

Almost by far.

[A]

Almost by far the worst county in the state of Michigan. Almost as bad as Hillsdale County. Michigan Cops are corrupt and so are the courts.

[B]

Yeah, they are.

[A]

Okay, sure. This is very different things. Things to do here. Not much. There's a couple of things to do here. First we have the Strawberry Fest.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And then there's an Apple Fest and I'll read you the descriptions of them. Strawberry Fest, 9am to 3pm Every year, the annual Strawberry Fest brings together over 200 vendors to sell their food, drinks, crafts, strawberries and raise money for their nonprofits in historic downtown Coldwater. Okay. Then there's the Apple Fest which is from 9am to 3pm same hours, over 220 plus vendors gather in downtown historic Coldwater, Michigan for this annual event. It features apples, krafts, food vendors. It's the same thing.

[B]

Is the same day?

[A]

No, no, no. They're like three months apart, but it's the exact same description. They just go, replace strawberry with apple. There you go. And they also have entertainment under the stars, which I suppose this is like a free summer concert series in Heritage park here. And says be sure to bring your own lawn chair. Unless you want to sit on the grass. Get the wet ass from the dew. So who will be performing here, you may ask?

[B]

Well, I'm begging.

[A]

Joe Breg will be there. B R E G G. He's going.

[B]

To have to mark a little better. Never heard of him.

[A]

The Delbert Walling Group.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

It sounds like a financial advisor group, like the Del. Contact the Delbert Walling Group and we'll get you into the best fucking IRA.

[B]

Possible for all Roth and 401k concerns.

[A]

Oh, man. Van Dyke Review.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

There you go. Dick Van Dyke. They're just going to sing all the Mary Poppins songs over and over again. Scotty Butters.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That sounds like a drug dealer's nickname. I need some coke, dude. You got Scotty Butter's number? Yeah, I got it. Dude, it's all right.

[B]

I got a voice like a biscuit.

[A]

Scotty Butters. Latitude. I don't know what the hell they do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Longitude is not playing this night. Yeah, they're not playing this night, unfortunately. And then finally Island Vibe will be there. Oh, that's what I want.

[B]

Music.

[A]

Island music. That's. That's the vibe I'm getting from a small town in Michigan. So that says, let's talk about some murder here. Let's get into this, all right? Let's talk about some. Some people establishing a nice suburban life here, okay? Nice small town life. First of all, we'll talk about Marilyn Lee McClenaghan. McClanahan. Not McClanahan. McClanahan. She's born January 24, 1941, and she's born in Detroit. She grew up in Detroit. Not in this area, so a couple hours away. Her dad's name is a cool name. Dallas. Arnold McClenaghan. Old Dallas. And think about that. He's. He was born in like 1910 and his name's Dallas. That's pretty cool.

[B]

I got an uncle named Dallas and he's a fucking badass from.

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

I never met him, but I'll bet he's a hillbilly.

[A]

What did the coach say? What did the coach say in Teen Wolf? Never play cards with a guy who's first has the first name of a city.

[B]

City.

[A]

I believe that's what he's told Michael J. Fox.

[B]

Yeah, very good.

[A]

It's a really good advice, I think, to give.

[B]

Guy named Vegas, guy named Dallas.

[A]

You don't want that. Even Reno. You don't play cards with a guy named Reno. Forget about it. Out of your mind.

[B]

Cards with a guy named Tallahassee.

[A]

Absolutely not. Pensacola is a badass fucking poker player. Her mom's name was Betty. So Dallas and Betty. And she was born in Detroit. And this is in the 40s and 50s. Detroit was a booming city industry just pumping after World War II. During World War II and after. And then the auto industry and. I mean, you could. This. You could get. You'd have a decent job and a nice house and a couple of cars and all this stuff. Working in a factory back then, it was a totally different time here, so. And her father, you know, did all of that. Her father did. I don't think he was in World War II. I think he was in the factories doing something.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

That had to do with munitions or some shit like that. But she's a very kind. Marilyn's a very kind and really understanding person. She has an ability to make people feel comfortable. Everybody likes her. She's that kind of person. She doesn't put people on edge or anything like that. She graduated from Edsel Ford High School. Oh, my God.

[B]

They were so proud that these cars were being built there. Everything's named after.

[A]

It was probably 1959, like before they discontinued the Edsel. So that was considered.

[B]

I think the Edsel stopped in the 40s, right?

[A]

I think it was like 61 or something. They stopped there. 60 or some shit. Or might have been 59. Honestly, it was the late. The late 50s. Because wasn't that part of the whole.

[B]

It's those big things, bulky cars, too, that they were just. They were just.

[A]

It's a famous piece of shit.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that the one you could buy from Sears Roebuck? Yeah, they stopped in 59.

[A]

Look at that.

[B]

The 60 model was the last one.

[A]

I just got two 59s today. Correct. Is that crazy or what.

[B]

Happened now? Yeah, they stopped in 59.

[A]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[B]

They launched in 57.

[A]

Yeah, it was a famous lemon. That's the thing.

[B]

It was only made for two years. That piece of shit.

[A]

Wow. A world famous piece of shit. So she got a bachelor's degree from Michigan State University. Got a master's degree from Wayne State University. Wow. So Marilyn is doing some education, and she wants to work with kids in some way. That's how she wants to do this. So with all this education, she chooses to become a high school guidance counselor. I don't know if in the 60s, the guidance counselor was a different kind of job.

[B]

It's a lot of money for 12 grand a year.

[A]

I was gonna say back then.

[B]

It's a lot of time.

[A]

You're probably making seven grand a year in the 60s, back then. Because, I mean, now you probably make 42 grand a year being a goddamn guidance counselor. I'll bet that's generous, you know, so depending on the state. So, you know, she must really want to do this. And I don't know if guidance counselor was a more important position back in the day, too, because when we were in high school, guidance counselor's a goddamn joke. You're not going to ask them anything. You only went there if you needed to change a class or something. That was it. There was no, like, what should I do with my life? Person who has more student loans than what they make in 10 years, tell me, please.

[B]

Person who doesn't know shit about me.

[A]

Yeah. And who also I've talked to for a total of three minutes in the four years that I've gone to the school. What should I do? So she got a position at Coldwater High School, and then she becomes the guidance counselor. And everybody knows and loves her. She's like, stop by her office and come see her. And apparently she makes you feel better. She's very active in local stuff, community events and has a lot of friends and all that kind of thing. She's real social. In 1971, when she's 30 and having completed her education and already started her career and everything, she meets a man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Here. Yes, she does. She meets a guy who's the complete opposite of her, really. But, you know, sometimes opposites attract and people balance each other out. Who knows? So his name is Dennis Henry Depew. D E P U E. Depew.

[B]

Really? Yeah.

[A]

Like actual Pew. Pepe Depew. He could be, which I'm sure they called him in school, like, sit your.

[B]

Ass down and depew.

[A]

In Depew. That's right. And then get down on your knees and back up in the seat and back down and back up and back into Pew and back in Depew. So he was quiet and didn't like social situations, and she was the complete opposite. So that's their dynamic. He's born June 13, 43, so two years younger than her, actually. And he's from Sturgis, Michigan. That's where he was born. Parents Claude and Elma her name was Elma Merle. M U R L Murrel. Wow, that is a rough name. M U r M U R L Elma Merle.

[B]

That's a. I mean that wasn't her.

[A]

Last name like Merle was our middle name. Elma Merle. You got to be. You got to be hot to pull that name off.

[B]

That's a terrible spotlight of grand gross spelling. It sounds like you got something in.

[A]

Your throat a little bit. Right. I got a little Merle going on here. So they were here for a long time in this area. He's from Burr Oak is where he grows up, which is not far from Coldwater. So he's kind of Southern Michigan. His family's been there for a long time and everything like that. He grew up in a modest middle class home. Dirt roads in the small town, kids riding their bikes, all that kind of shit, you know, it's. It's sort of thing now he is a decent in school, nothing crazy but nothing. He doesn't stand out in any way, shape or form. He's quiet, he's not. He's a good student but not the top academic guy or the lowest or doesn't get in trouble. So he's a guy that would kind of. You might not notice him. He could go by unnoticed. Dennis here. So he ended up going to Michigan State University as well. He got a bachelor's in business education. He's a big fan of Michigan State sports as well. So that's something they had in common. They went to the same school. That helps and that sort of thing. So Dennis tries teaching. This is before he meets Marilyn. He tried teaching. He's got a business education but he tries teaching business. That's what he does here. So he goes to Portland, Oregon and Los Angeles and teaches both places and doesn't really like it. He likes a small town. He's a small town Midwestern guy. Louisiana is neither of those things. I mean if that's what you're real into, you're not going to like LA at all. So he wants to do that. He goes back to Michigan and finds work in the Michigan's Department of Treasury as a property tax specialist.

[B]

Great. Boring.

[A]

That sounds boring. Yeah, that sounds soul crushingly boring. It's decent work, benefits and kids can go to the doctor when they need to and shit like that. So that's some adult shit if he wants to have a family someday. So he's very detail oriented and very suited to this sort of work. Basically real kind of tedious boring shit. He's good at that. So, yeah, he's in cold water, and that's where he's living and working. So this is not too far from where he grew up. And he still goes to church in his small town that he grew up in and stuff like that. But people look at him as, you know, around here as he's doing real well. Graduated from college. He got a nice steady government job. He's doing fine. He's got a lot of problems with. He never really. Before Marilyn. He never really has a good relationship.

[B]

No.

[A]

He's kind of controlling and not really good, you know, with the back and forth either. So it's. It's tough. But Marilyn fell for him.

[B]

She likes it.

[A]

She. Yeah, they. I mean, they get married within a couple years of. Within, I think, a year and a.

[B]

Half of starting to go out as attention.

[A]

Yeah, she liked him and she just. Whatever it was, she liked him. I think she liked the fact that. I think she is a very stable, established person and was looking for someone with similar. Yeah, you know what I mean? He's never been married before. Doesn't have any kids or anything like that. So, hey, why not? They seem to match up. So they had a big wedding and everything like that. All of their, you know, friends and business associates and people from the school and everything were there. They bought a nice house as well. Little nice quiet neighborhood with trees and. Sure, real nice. They're both, you know, doing their jobs. Everything is wonderful. They have three kids. It is just John Cougar Mellencamp song all laid out before us here. They have Jennifer, Dawn, Jennifer, 1974. They have Julie in 1976, and then they have Scott in about 1982. So three kids. Yep, two girls and a boy. Everything looks terrific here, except for the fact that Dennis is always a little weird. He's just a little off. And I don't know if it's because Marilyn is so kind of not weird and she's very outgoing that next to her, he looks weirder. I'm not sure if that's how it works, but he's a little strange. Friends said that Dennis could kind of be a little bit possessive of Marilyn when it comes to her doing a lot of shit, which if you're an introvert and you're going out with an extrovert or married to an extrovert, you have to kind of accommodate for that, that they're going to want to do their thing. Same way the extrovert can't be mad at you. If you'd like Rather sit home tonight or whatever. So got to kind of make some sort of accommodations for that. Yeah.

[B]

Find the middle. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. He would make, you know, he'd say sometimes that she's spending too much time at work or too much time. Why do you have to go out with your friends from work? You just work with them all week and all that. I understand that. I can never understand why people want to do that. To me. That's the craziest thing that humans do.

[B]

Hanging out with co workers.

[A]

Work all week with people, and then Friday be like, hey, everybody, it's Friday happy hour. I'll go, what are you talking about?

[B]

I've just spent hours when I get.

[A]

The fuck home, 40 hours with you people. I have people that I've chosen to spend time with. That's my family, my spouse, things like that. I married them. I just work with you. That is really, really take, you know, an inch, taking a mile. To think that because we sit in a cubicle next to each other, I also want to see you on my off hours is nuts.

[B]

There's only one guy in my entire life that I was a coworker of. Like, apart from comedy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where I had to.

[A]

We were co workers.

[B]

Right. That's a coworker.

[A]

But we're jerking off, telling dick, giggling. Yeah, yeah, that's a totally different thing.

[B]

But there was only one dude my entire life that I. That I actually enjoy. I mean, I hung out with coworkers outside of work, but I was like, why am I doing. You know. I mean. Yeah, I guess you never really. You never really have that realization until you stop hanging out with them. There's like, why did I.

[A]

Why was I doing that? I would literally laugh and be like, no way am I hanging out. What, are you fucking crazy? No. No offense, but I don't. I don't like you that much to hang out with you in my off time, like, when I'm not getting paid for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I, you know, I can understand that. But also, I can understand if you're working with people you like and you want to hang out with them. So that's fine here. So, yeah. So she's got to navigate that. His, you know, his grumpiness and then her wanting to do her thing. By the 80s, it becomes harder because he wants even less to do with doing anything. He's withdrawn even more.

[B]

He just wants to be at home.

[A]

Yeah. And that's it. And it starts to affect Marilyn to the point where people at school start to notice that there was some she seemed distracted. She would seem tired. Just kind of not her usual engaged, chipper self, really. So people would ask, is everything cool? And she would go, oh, yeah, yeah. No, it's okay. I'm fine. I'm fine, I'm fine. But they could tell something was up here. And the kids are getting older and stuff's happening like that. He really, really, over time, gets angrier and angrier. At the time that she spends outside of the house, though, he really, really gets annoyed. And then he starts accusing her of things. Oh, not of like, you're out cheating on me. Which he started telling everybody. Her especially, and the kids. That she was turning the children against him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which she wasn't turning anybody against anybody.

[B]

He was just by spending time with them. And he's not.

[A]

I don't know. Just she. It's basically, the kids are turning into teenagers, especially the girls. And let's see. Jimmy, you have a teenage girl.

[B]

Oh, my God, she's so against me.

[A]

Drop a tude going on there, right?

[B]

All of you have turned her against me.

[A]

That's exactly where I was going with that.

[B]

The whole world has turned her against me.

[A]

You have two teenage girls, and you're like, you've turned them against me. It's like, no, nature has. Hormones have turned them against you. They hate both of us and everything because they're teenagers, and that's life.

[B]

They're just mad, man.

[A]

Yeah. Wait till they're about sophomores in college. You'll get along great. You know what I'm saying? But until then, you're gonna have some troubles. But he took that as. Because the kids have an attitude. It must be her making them that way against me, which is ridiculous. And she would try to be like, no, no, no. And tell the girls, be extra nice to your dad, and all kinds of shit like that. Which. That's exhausting for her to have to do that. That's exhausting. So after a while, just to not hear his shit, she started not engaging in social activities quite as much. And she was just tired of it. She didn't want to argue anymore. So certain things that she would. Big community events that she knows would piss Dennis off, she would just say, forget it, not go. And the kids noticed that, too. The kids are noticing. Mom's not the same cheerful, outgoing mom. She's starting to be a little bit more. It sounds like, basically. Do you remember Sissy Spacek in Blast from the Past?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's running around like, oh, I'll fix that. Oh, I'll do that. That's what she seems like she is. Like she's running around trying, oh, I'll make everybody happy. It's okay. I'll do this. I'll keep all the plates spinning. So, yeah, the kids noticed that too. And everybody kind of started to. The first thing everybody want to know is what mood is dad in today? You know what I mean? Like, that's a gross cloud to hang over a house when there's anybody like that. So even when they would go to social gatherings together, he would go sit apart from everybody and just, like, watch Marilyn while she talked to people, which is bizarre. Bizarre behavior. Sit next to her and be quiet. That's fine. But don't go sit somewhere else and, like, stare and stalk. She might as well go outside looking through the window, just putting his hand around his eyes, just creeping on her. So by 1988, she basically starts telling her friends that my marriage is kind of shitty now. And he's starting to be. Dennis is more controlling and he's demanding, and he doesn't want me to do things I want to do and just wants to have control over everything. Even when she was allowed to work late, when she could go out with friends, it was an argument all the time. So she was really trying to pick and choose her battles here. And then also again through all of this, he continued to say that she was poisoning the kids against him. You're turning them against me. You're making them mean to me, which is hilarious. Nature did that, not her. So he said that. I don't think you are real committed to this family and people. There's people who want. There's forces out there who wanna see us apart. And you're giving into it.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

And you're turning the kids against me. And it's like there's a lot of conspiracy theories going on that he's got.

[B]

Sounds like it. Yeah.

[A]

Are kind of weird. He's still. I don't know if maybe. Cause he's still working with the State Treasury Department. So maybe he's just so bored at work that his brain needs to do something else. I don't know what is going on here, but one of his co workers said Dennis worked out of our office on occasion. He was a conscientious, good worker, a fairly quiet individual. But since the divorce proceedings, he got a lot more quiet than normal. Oh, yeah. Because Marilyn's gonna file for divorce.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

This guy said it was a bitter situation when you consider the stress he was under and that he took it so bitterly. Who knows how that affects a person. He changed quite a bit and lost a lot of weight. He was an avid Michigan State fan and during basketball season this year he didn't make any comments like he did in the past. So just not the same guy. No, he's just not the same guy here. Hey everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you how to get your kids to save a little better with acorns early.

[B]

Acorns early.com or the app.

[A]

It's such a cool thing because remember being a kid when you're saving up for something, you remember that. I remember saving for Sega Genesis and I was saving and I never couldn't get there and I wasn't good at it. You know what I mean? So let's teach our kids to be better at it than we were and maybe they can get the equivalent of whatever the Sega is at that point in time. Acorns early makes it easy to teach kids healthy money habits that's gonna stick with them for life. You have to get them started and then it becomes a habit and it really, really will go on forever. So with Acorns early, your kids don't have to learn their money lessons the hard way like a lot of us did here. So if you want to teach them about money, you don't have to go at it alone. Acorns early helps kids learn the smart way to earn, save and spend because they don't teach us that in school. They don't teach you how to do that sort of thing. You got to teach your kids yourself. And that's why we're doing this, teaching our kids, giving them a head start with some money skills. With Acorns early, it is the smart debit card and money app that grows kids money skills as they grow up. You start with the in app Chores tracker and teach your kids the value of a dollar. Then let your kids set their own savings goals and they can start building healthy habits that can build toward that. They can spend what they've earned with their own customizable debit card, giving them a little sense of independence too, and responsibility. It's good for them. Plus with Acorns Earlys spending limits and real time spending notifications, as a parent, you can stay in control of it though. We're getting our kids started on this and I think you should too. It's good for them. Get in there and teach them some responsibility. Ready to teach your kids the smart way to earn, save and spend? Get your first month on us when you head to acornserly.com small or download the Acorns early app. That's one month free when you sign up at acornserly.com small and now back to the show. Nope. And the kids don't want to be around him now, which just fuels his whole thing.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So they said he would have periods where he seemed pretty cool and, you know, like old, old dad. And then he would all of a sudden be angry and start accusing people of shit and freaking out, making the whole family uncomfortable. And so the kids don't want to spend time with him at all, or they don't even want to be in the house. They do that thing where they like to go to school, go to some, like, after school activity, then go to a friend's house, then come home at 9 o', clock, go in the room and go to bed. Like, yeah, you know that shit again tomorrow. Yeah, avoid the house. I've done that. You know what I mean? So just come in and maybe we can just get a quick, how you doing? And I can go in my room. And again, Dennis would notice this and then blame Marilyn for it. You've been turning them against me. So she said, maybe we could go to counseling. And he said, no, no, nobody could understand us except for us. So she said, you know, what do you want? And anytime she would say, okay, what's the problem? And he would explain it. Well, when you do this, makes me feel like that when you go there, she'd go, okay, well, then I won't do that. Well, well, then he would take that as well. Then I don't want you to do this, this, and this either. You take a mile when given an inch again. So at this point, by the way, one person said about the kids, the kids were well behaved, very intelligent, good students. Both girls were in the National Honor Society, and Scott was in the gifted program in elementary school.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So despite all of this, the kids are still thriving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And maybe wanting to be outside the home and be in school, even just to get away from your family, that'll make you a decent student. You're at school all the time. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, you'll stay after school, do your homework, shit like that. Why not? So by 89, she has consulted a divorce attorney and she told a lawyer that basically her marriage is a prison. So that's that. Absolutely. She said that she tried. Dennis is too controlling. And it went from a couple of things to every little thing in her life and she can't take it anymore. So she Said that she's always doesn't trust her own judgment anymore, even because Dennis has made her second guess everything. So the attorney told Marilyn to document his behavior, and then we'll put that all in the proceedings and try to build a case basically for divorce. So Dennis not happy that Marilyn filed for divorce, Furious at all. Like we said at work, he got weird and everything else, but wouldn't talk about Michigan State basketball anymore. They said he would be rageful and then he would be depressed and he would be, you know, he would threaten to fight the divorce and beg Marilyn not to divorce him at the same time. So you never knew what he was going to come up with, whether he was going to be attacking or conciliatory. You never knew. So it was weird because she would have her, this is what I want in a divorce. Everybody has, this is what you want, and this is what you want, whatever. So Dennis would challenge all of everything that she wanted and say no to everything. And then certain things, he would just not fight at all. Things you would expect him to fight about. Like, he didn't fight for the house at all. Said, you can have the house, which is weird. And her financial arrangements that her lawyers drew up to say, this is what we like from you. He said, no problem, fine. Didn't even negotiate.

[B]

You got it, Take what you want.

[A]

These are the things you fight about. Who gets the house, who gets the money, and then the rest of the stuff, you try to make compromises. But he was like, no, I want to see the kids at 10 o' clock on Saturday, not noon, but you can have the house and I'll give you however much you want. Like, things like, that's like, who cares? Stop arguing. So I don't know. They thought that a lot of his friends said that they figured that he was doing this to try to get her back. If he's like, told her, if he was nice to her and said, yeah, yeah, I understand, you can have whatever. She might think that he was changing and she might want him back after that. So who knows? But December 1989, the divorce is final, and Dennis is granted visitation with his kids every other week. And the kids. And also here's another weird part. Okay. They have their home, and outside their home is a guest house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is where he has a home office. So in the divorce proceedings, he is allowed to use the guest house as his office still.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. So he has access still to the property and the guest house. That is one thing. That's an odd arrangement.

[B]

That's not how you separate.

[A]

No. That's really fucking weird and confusing for the kids, I would imagine too. Real confusing. So it's odd. But the strange thing is through all this, their middle daughter said that she. She never saw her parents fight.

[B]

Really?

[A]

They never fought. That's the weird through all of this.

[B]

Doesn't fight. He's just like a chill guy.

[A]

They would just not speak to each other for days at a time. That's what they do. Not fight. But not very healthy. Very healthy. Very good way to resolve conflict, that is. So anyway, he is allowed, like we said he wanted five. He said that. I guess he's allowed to see the kids. I'm sorry. More than once a week. Not every other week. So he said he wanted to see the kids all the time. Weekly visitation and she said that was fine. And he was allowed to be in the guest house where he did his work and all that kind of thing. So he continued though to. She changed the locks in the house to try to have some sort of control. But he would find ways to get in when no one was home anyway because it was his house. He knows how to break. Everyone knows how to break into their own house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, your own house is soft spots. Everybody does. So. Yeah. So she would return and see like things moved around her papers were got like rifled through. Just someone was in the house looking through shit and so she didn't like that. And the kids, because he was being so weird, they didn't like really being around him anymore. They would make excuses to not go to their court appointed visits and things like that. And Dennis said that's Marilyn again, poisoning the children. Poisoning the love well is what they're doing. So the kids not wanting to see their dad became a problem, obviously. And they would fight over that. Nobody wanted to go basically. And for the teenage kids, one is 16. It's hard to force 16 year olds to do visits, you know. Yeah. Once somebody gets a car, it's hard to force them to like go visit your dad. Well, maybe I want to go to the mall in the middle of that. You know what I mean?

[B]

I'd rather not do any of that.

[A]

Exactly. And 14, they have to, but they'll just complain the whole time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And Scott was a little younger than that, so he's more pliable. But even he didn't really want to go, so. So it's tough then. This all comes to a head on April 15, 1990. It's Easter Sunday.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

Oh yeah. Marilyn is preparing for a Big, you know, meal, a big Easter meal. She likes the holidays and she likes having the family and making food and all that kind of thing. But Dennis is scheduled this day to pick up two of the three kids. She's supposed to. He's supposed to do that now. Julie, that morning, said she didn't want to go, period. That was it. And Dennis, under the divorce agreement, couldn't force her to do it if she didn't want to. But the fact that she didn't want to really pissed him off.

[B]

That's. Yeah, that's a. That's a problem.

[A]

Yeah. So now he's just going to get Scott. So he's pissed off about that. So he arrives about 11am pissed because he knows that he's only getting Scott already, and he thought he was getting all three, and he's getting one. So then he gets there and Scott whines and complains and says he doesn't want to go with him. So he wanted to go out. He said, you know, he wanted to play with his friends and shit like that. You know, the kid was. Christ, he's eight years old or something at the. Nine years old. He wants to go out and play. I mean, his child. And he just didn't want to go sit and look at his fucking. Look at his morbid dad. Yeah. Just sit there and be depressed and asking him weird questions about what mom does at night. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, why don't you want to be here?

[A]

Real, real fucking. Yeah. Not cool. So Marilyn tries to intervene because Dennis is yelling at Scott or, you know, trying to tell Scott that you're coming with me, and he's saying, no, no, no. So she's like, listen, listen, let's figure this out. Let's, you know, come on, everybody. Out of nowhere, Dennis, instead of he and Marilyn being the parents and explaining to Scott that it's important that you spend time with your father as well, which would be the healthy thing and what Marilyn was trying to do. Dennis then turns everything on to Marilyn and says, this is your fault. Even though she's trying to help him with the kid. He said, this is all your fault. You're turning the kids against me.

[B]

You've.

[A]

This is everything. You're manipulative and all of this type of shit. Then out of nowhere, he grabs Marilyn. All three kids are standing right there, by the way, grabs Marilyn and throws her down the basement steps.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

I don't mean go walk down there. We're gonna have a talk. He threw her down the fucking stairs. Like laundry that needs to be done later. Like, it's. Wow. So she fell down. These are wooden stairs. Thankfully, they're not concrete basement stairs, that would be much worse, but I mean, still. Go down some wooden stairs to a basement. See how it feels. So she lay. She got to the bottom and just laid there. They didn't know if she was unconscious, dead. She's just laying there in a heap on the bottom. So these kids are screaming, oh, my God. Mom. Mom. Dennis runs down the steps. So they think, obviously he's gonna help her up. Instead, he starts pummeling her.

[B]

Oh, he's punching her now and kicking.

[A]

Her in the face. I mean, stomping her. And just absolutely, savagely attacking this woman.

[B]

Out of nowhere, he's been set off for some reason.

[A]

And the kids have never really even seen their parents fight that much. And now out of. And they've never seen dad explode. He's just weird and sullen. He's not a fucking this. But now he's just exploded into this frenzy of violence and just. It's a real life fight, Absolutely. Pummeling this poor woman in front of the kids. So they're watching in horror, screaming and all this type of shit. Next thing you know, Dennis picks her up and carries her up the basement stairs. She's completely unconscious. Carries Marilyn up the basement stairs. The kids are watching. And he says. The kids go, what are you doing? And he said, I'm gonna take her to the hospital. He's got her over his shoulder, and he says, I'm going to get her help. And then he hops into his van. It's a 1984 Chevy van. I don't know why this week is full of vans, but it is. And he said, I'll be back soon, okay? So the kids were like, holy shit. This is fucking crazy. They watch. Dennis puts Marilyn in the passenger seat of the van. They pull out. They're like, shit. So they all sit around the phone because he said, I'll call you from the hospital, let you know how she's doing. And he went from this rage to just super calm. I'm going to take her to the hospital now. Got it all out of his system. He's like, well, all right, let's clean this mess up. So the children are watching as they drive away, and it's fucking crazy. So all of this while all this is going on, Jennifer, the oldest, had. As soon as he threw Marilyn down the stairs, she ran to a neighbor's house to call the cops.

[B]

Smart.

[A]

So she comes back to her dad driving away and the other two kids just standing there in shock, essentially. So she's like, holy shit. Now enter Ray and Marie Thornton. Okay, Ray and Marie, they've been married and they have. Every Sunday they do a specific thing. They take a drive through the countryside around Coldwater because they like to look at the landscape and things like that. And this is their time that they spend talking and just being with each other. No one else. You're in a car, so no one else is around. You get some private time. So they were driving south on Snow Prairie Road and they were playing a little game. They looked at license plates of passing cars to try to make words or phrases out of the letters. That's their game.

[B]

That's what you do. Yep.

[A]

It's like little kids sitting in the backwards facing seats of a station wagon in 1973 or something.

[B]

100%.

[A]

So just fun. And that's what they like to do, have a little fun. So they see a green Chevy van coming toward them. Okay, he said he saw it in the rear view mirror, and Ray did. Said he saw it in the rear view. It was driving aggressively and very fast. So Ray tried to speed up, but the van passed them anyway and basically passed them in a way that kind of forced them partially off the road. A real aggressive pass that's swept in.

[B]

Before he passed him.

[A]

Yeah, Not Sunday afternoon driving behavior. Like, where are you going? So as the van went past, Marie saw the license plate. It started with GZ or the two letters. So she said, geez, he's in a hurry. That's the sentence they made out of it. So they laughed. Ha ha, that guy's a jerk off. And they kept driving, that's all. So they're just driving, driving, driving. A few minutes later, for some reason, they approach. There's an abandoned schoolhouse. Yeah, okay. Terrifying place here. That's where they're driving. And the schoolhouse, by the way, it's a big brick building built in 1908 that was just empty and abandoned in the middle of a farm country. There's nothing else around. Creepy as fuck. Just horror movie setting for the ages is what it is. It even says, like, there's graffiti all over it because, you know, kids come here and finger each other and smoke weed or do whatever the fuck they do. And one, when you come in, it says, enter hell in graffiti.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

Hell yeah. So yeah, for kids, that's what they're going to do. So they go into here, driving in, and Marie of Ray and Marie Thornton said, behind the building, she saw a man carrying what appeared to be a white sheet stained with red.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So that's what she did. Now, where the hell has Dennis gone?

[B]

Where has Dennis gone?

[A]

Well, he drove along Snow Prairie Road at a very high rate of speed, passing people. And at some point during this trip, he had put a 357 to the back of Marilyn's head and shot her and killed her. Whoa. Yes. In the van. In the van he did this. So now we don't. I mean, we're not even positive whether he beat her to death and then shot her or she started gurgling and he said, well, I better shoot her. But either way, 357 in the back of the head. So, yeah, then he had to figure out, what do I do, right? You know, what do I do? So he chose, like we said, to drive along that road, and he wrapped her body in a sheet, and now he needed a place to hide it. So he said, hey, there's that abandoned schoolhouse out on Snow Prairie Road about 12 miles outside of town. Welcome to enter hell. So real weird. It's surrounded by fields and woods. There's no neighbors, there's no traffic. This is a perfect place for this. So he parked his van behind the building and started trying to figure out how to dispose of things. So he brought the sheet to wrap the body, and he tried to. He tried to stuff it into an animal hole. The sheet. Yeah, but the hole wasn't big enough. So there's just a bloody sheet sticking out of the ground, which is extremely conspicuous. You really notice that? I would say so. He's like, shit, that's not great. So he all of a sudden grabs whatever he can and tries to start digging a deeper hole or do something. And that's when the Thorntons pulled up and saw him with a sheet. Yeah, and saw him with a sheet. And Marie, when she sees that, said, ray, look at that. What do you think he's doing? Yeah, gee, I don't know. Abandoned schoolhouse in the middle of nowhere. Bloody sheep, it appears.

[B]

Disposing of a body.

[A]

Honey, he's doing something that we're not going to watch him do. Let's go. We're getting the fuck out of here. Get in the car. So Ray slows down. They're in the car, and they see a man struggling with a bloody sheet near what looked like a hole in the ground. They were like, what is happening right now? They couldn't, like, figure it out. So they continued. They just kept driving and continued down the road. And they were Talking about, what the fuck was that? What a weirdo. What's going on? Yeah, we don't know. We didn't know what to do. So then after they're driving a while, Ray looks in the rearview mirror and notices the green van is behind them again.

[B]

Oh, it's back.

[A]

Yeah, it's back. It pulls up right behind them, like, on their ass for several miles. They can't get rid of him. He's on their ass now. Ray could see the guy driving. It was a man wearing a white hat. And he said he was just staring intently at them real intense shit. So they were frightened. And Marie's asking her husband, why is he following us? And she goes, he's like, what the fuck do I know? I don't fucking know. So Ray decided to turn off the road onto a dirt path, saying, okay, if he's not following us, he's going to not turn down this path. But the van pulled over to the side of the road and stopped.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I don't know if they expected them to do the same if the van did. So Ray decides to turn around and go the other way because he wants to get a look at the license plate so he can report it to the police, because he said, this guy's been following him. So as they approached the van, they said the driver was crouched down beside the vehicle changing the rear license plate.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So they were like, what the fuck? And they said the passenger door of the van was wide open, and they can see the interior was covered in blood.

[B]

All right?

[A]

So they were like, holy shit. So they said, this is a wild decision for Ray and Marie. Ray and Marie, out on a Sunday drive, should not make decisions like this. They said, well, we don't want to confront the guy. That would be dangerous, but let's go back to the schoolhouse and investigate. This is not a Scooby Doo episode. Don't go back and see what's going on at the old abandoned schoolhouse. Go to the cops and let them fucking do it. What are you doing?

[B]

Get the fuck out of here. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Why would you do that? It's not your job. You're on a Sunday drive.

[B]

Lunatics.

[A]

This is crazy. So they got there and they found a bloody sheet partially stuffed into a hole in the ground behind the building. So they were like, shit. That's when they finally contacted the Michigan State Police here. They've got descriptions of the van, the driver, and the location of the bloody evidence and all that kind of thing. So the cops show up at the schoolhouse and they find exactly that. A bloody sheet partially stuffed into an animal hole behind the building. But then they also found tire tracks that they made casts of and everything like that. Took pictures of and found pools of blood as well back there. All the murder accoutrements, you know, things that are surrounding a murder. So back at the house now, where the. Remember the kids back there, Cops arrive to check on this family because Jennifer called the cops. And they find three kids sitting there saying, holy shit. My dad and my mom, we were talking and everything was fine. Next thing you know, he hurls her down the steps. He's savagely pummeling her with hands and feet. And then he carried her away and said, we're going to the hospital. So the cops called every hospital within 50 miles, and they have no Marilyn Depew being admitted anywhere. So they don't know anything about schoolhouse or anything like that. Those are just separate, completely separate. All this is happening. So they're gonna search for Dennis now. They're searching for a 1984 van with possibly a Michigan license plate of GZ0383. Tall white guy with dark hair. They're looking for. They said they're also looking for Marilyn. They said she could be out there. She's about 140 pounds, light brown or blonde hair as well. So then the next day, April 16, there are highway workers near a deserted road in Bethel Township, which is about halfway between the family home and the schoolhouse where he was. And they find Marilyn's body off on. Off on the side of a deserted road out there. Someone would kind of have to know the area to know where it is. She'd been shot once in the back of the head with a.357 and beaten and everything else. Yeah, this is not great. So it's really, really fucking difficult here. One of her co workers here said, I had hoped she was alive until I heard they found her body. Yeah, that's generally how it works. Once they find the body, you generally lose hope that they're alive.

[B]

I still had hope.

[A]

I mean, still fingers crossed, you know what I mean? You never know. But it started to wane anyway. I was surprised to find out that anything violent happened. She was very brave because of the way she handled her job and her life. Now, Dennis, where the fuck is he? They don't know. They go to his house where he's living in Baroque, and he's not there at all. He's gone. No sign of him anywhere. And so they go to his house. They search his house and the Branch County Sheriff sergeant said there are a few things we've got to check out, but I don't think it will pan out to much. Meaning they have some tips on where he is, but we don't think we're gonna find him right now. They said we came across new evidence yesterday in a couple different locations that hopefully is going to lead us to him. So the search, this is, they're searching his parents home because that's where he lives now. They said they didn't know where their son was. They hadn't heard from him. One of the investigators said, we learned that he was kind of a loner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this is by the way, when they searched the house the day of Marilyn's funeral. So obviously there's warrants issued for his arrest charging him with murder. So they'd love to have a chat with him here. So they're looking for Dennis and they launch a full blown effort all across Michigan and neighboring states too, to try to find him. They don't know where he is. What he starts doing is some weird shit. Instead of doing anything, he starts sending letters to people. Oh, yeah, all sorts of letters, real weird letters, rambling letters, excuses for what he did, I've been wronged letters, no remorse, nothing from where? Real from all over. The first letters began arriving about two weeks after the murder. Marilyn's colleagues at Coldwater High School got a letter from Dennis postmarked from Virginia. So, yeah, he blamed the school staff for Marilyn's death.

[B]

Yeah, they did it.

[A]

They did it. Yep.

[B]

They made me shoot her.

[A]

They said that they encouraged her to seek a divorce and had poisoned her mind against him.

[B]

All your fault is a victim.

[A]

He's a real victim, this fucking guy. He sent a total of 17 letters to various friends, family members and acquaintances.

[B]

Got a lot to say.

[A]

In one he wrote, Marilyn had many, many opportunities to treat me fairly during the divorce. And she chose to string it out. Trick me, lie to me. And when you lose your wife, children and home, there's not much left. I was too old to start over. That's what he said.

[B]

Woe is me. I can't do it again.

[A]

Yeah, give me a fucking break, people. Start over. You're fine. All of these letters were postmarked from different states. Virginia, Iowa, Oklahoma. Meaning he is on the move and they never know. And once they go to the place where he mailed it from, he's long gone, obviously. So after three months, he sends a real weird letter, a 13 page letter filled with insane bullshit, just blaming other people. Biblical Quotations, Religious justification for his actions.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. This is what God wants. You know what I mean?

[B]

Eye for an eye.

[A]

Oh, yeah. He said he was a righteous man in all these letters who'd been driven to desperate, desperate means because of the unfair treatment he received by a Judas of a woman. That backstabber. That fucking backstabber. So one he sent to the Battle Creek Inquirer and it's an attempt to justify killing. He uses phrases like an eye for an eye in there. Oh, yeah. He said a life for a life was received Wednesday by the Battle Creek. He called it a life for a.

[B]

Life, saying, she took my life, so I took hers. Is that what he said?

[A]

That's right. Real fucking weird 11 page letter to the. To the. To the newspaper here. It's. It was postmarked from Des Moines, Iowa. It was unsigned and he said it was his final communication. Oh, yeah. He said it was problems between them, their attorneys and relatives. He blamed the tragedy on Marilyn's attorney also for encouraging her to issue a restraining order against him. And he blames his own attorney for not telling him that he could have stayed in the house during divorce proceedings as well.

[B]

You're supposed to know that. It's your place, man.

[A]

Well, I mean, your lawyer should advise you of legal things, but you don't kill your wife because your lawyer didn't advise. Hire a new lawyer. Lawyer. That's the solution there. So the letter calls the divorce legal system a failure and says it needs to be changed. He accused the lawyer of trying to hurt her, saying, quote, marilyn had every right to divorce, but she made a fatal mistake in lying and deceiving to force Dennis out of the house and estranging the children from Dennis. The letter said third person. He refers in the letter, twice during the letter refers to the movie the War of the Roses. Remember that movie?

[B]

No.

[A]

Danny DeVito. And was it Michael Douglas is in it? Possibly. It's about two rich people fighting over a divorce. They're both named Rose. It's the War of the Roses. It's a real. It's a dark, fucking cool movie from like the late 80s, I think. It's a weird, dark comedy that wasn't really around much back then. It was cool. Check it out. It's about people fucking divorcing. And she said that if Mar. He said if Marilyn had just seen that movie, everything would have been resolved amicably. Just needed to see the movie. He said all the children were bitter from this divorce and they were all mad at me. And it's not fair. And it's wild, dude. It's wild.

[B]

It's. The delusions are fucking insane already.

[A]

He said he was unfairly thrown out of his house. With depression overtaking Dennis and saying that she was wanting everything her own way and being too proud, too haughty, and too stubborn for her own good. Marilyn never knew when to stop pushing to get her own way for everything. She never realized how she was getting all the good things and all the bad things that were happening to Dennis. The letter says Marilyn chose to throw Dennis over the fence and stay on her side of the fence with the children, house furniture and make Dennis pay for college expenses. Dennis got very, very hurt when Marilyn threw Dennis over the fence, then said also she exacerbated Dennis's depression and left him in a hopeless situation with drastically unfair treatment by turning the kids against him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She. Then he said this. When. When do people, as a last resort, react with violence? And he said they. When they're treated unfairly and when there's little or nothing to lose. And then he says all these things happen to Dennis. And then he also has a list and giving six interesting thoughts, including do unto others as they have done. You know, done unto you. An eye for an eye, a life for a life.

[B]

Here he goes.

[A]

Holy shit. Yeah, all sorts of letters, by the way. When he disappeared, he took $4,000 in cash that they know he took, that they know. So they know he had some money, but I mean, that's not enough to like live forever or anything like that. They said none of the letters gave any indication of where he might be or where he might be headed. They just know he's got an 84 full size van. So after about eight months of this, the trail, it's cold. There's no nothing. He stops sending letters and that's it. They don't know where the hell he is. No clue. So we know where he is, though. You know where he is. And I'm wondering if this is just because this was his dad's name or what. But he went to Dallas.

[B]

Did he really?

[A]

He went to Dallas.

[B]

He went to Texas.

[A]

He went to Dallas. Dallas, Texas, where he changes his name, really? And just pretends to be somebody else.

[B]

That's not gonna work, right?

[A]

Well, I mean, he's in like 1970. It could work.

[B]

It can work. Yeah.

[A]

By 1991, that was the very end of that. Being able to work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'll give you this. I'll give you one guess of. I'll give you one guess. What do you Think he changed his name to Giuseppe? No, no, no. Nothing ethnic, I'll tell you that much.

[B]

Did he change it to Pensacola?

[A]

He changed it to Hank.

[B]

What?

[A]

Hank for a first name? Yeah, I'm a man. Last name Queen. Hank Queen. Which sounds like a real butch drag queen. That's what that sounds like. A big. Like a, you know, hairy, 350 pound drag queen. He's like, I'm Hank Queen. That's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? That'd be a good name for somebody like that, right?

[B]

Not Famine up at all, just.

[A]

No, no, no. So he moves in.

[B]

Who's the guy that used to throw the glitter? What was his name?

[A]

Not Rip Taylor. No, the other one. There's also Rip. Bruce Charles, Nelson Riley. He would come out with the confetti, didn't he?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

These are all like crazy old people from our childhood.

[B]

Just flamboyant and masculine. Flamboyant.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's real confusing.

[A]

Hank Queen. Somehow he gets ID and documents in the name of Hank Queen.

[B]

Really?

[A]

And he starts building a life. He meets Mary Blizzard. Hank Queen and Mary Blizzard.

[B]

Get out of here.

[A]

I Shit.

[B]

You notice a couple made at Dairy Queen?

[A]

It's the weirdest fucking thing in the world. It took my joke in a minute here. That's fucking. That's okay, though. It worked there, too, I was gonna say. Cause they end up talking about getting married, and I'm like, where are they gonna have their wedding?

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

The Queen. Yeah. You know it, baby. Peanut Buster. Parfaits all around as far as the eye can see. They met at a Halloween party at a Dallas nightclub.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They dated and we were fine by Christmas. Dennis, who had been living in Mesquite, moves into her house in Grapevine. Yeah, he's a sports fan. He tells her that he graduated from Michigan State. Said he worked for a publishing company doing illustrations. You got to be able to draw. To say that he always carried cash, but didn't leave the house much during the day. So anyway, she's into him. He's employed, reliable, and seems to be into her. So she's like, awesome. She wrote down his license plate number in the beginning of the relationship. Because she did that always as a safety measure.

[B]

Brilliant. Yeah.

[A]

That's what women now. They just send their friend their location and they keep it tracked. That's the new thing. But back then, all you could do was write a license plate number down and hope they'd find that bloody piece of paper clutched in your dead hand.

[B]

As they tuck that right there. Into the coin purse of your handbag.

[A]

Yeah. The fifth pocket of your jeans or some shit. So, yeah, she thought, oh, man. He was vague about his past, but she was like, a lot of people are private. Maybe he had painful relationships in the past. This isn't weird. So Mary would introduce Hank to her friends and family. He fit right in. He's polite. He's a nice guy. Little weird, though. Doesn't like to be recognized.

[B]

No.

[A]

Doesn't like crowds. Doesn't like social events, which, I mean, he's always kind of been like that. Didn't really like newspapers very much.

[B]

Didn't like newspapers.

[A]

Didn't like to watch the news. Didn't like things like that. When Mary would say, hey, let's watch the news or let's go out. He would be like, well, we could do this other thing instead.

[B]

Yeah, I'd rather not. Just in case they run an old cold case or something.

[A]

You never know. I don't want to be. I don't want to ruin it. So one of the friends said we'd become a little suspicious of him. Linda didn't know his middle name. She knew he grew up in Michigan, but he wouldn't directly say. He didn't have a driver's license. And she never saw any mail coming to the house. He was really evasive about a lot of things. Evasive, evasive. So then on March 20th, 1991, Unsolved Mysteries.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

Comes on TV.

[B]

Stack.

[A]

Oh, man. So they do reenactments of the whole case. They have Ray and Marie Thornton talking about the abandoned schoolhouse, the van, everything like that. Now this is on tv. It popped on. So Dennis is trying to get her out of the room. He just doesn't want her to be in the room. So he says as it starts, he said, maybe you know what you could do? Could you make me some sandwiches or snacks? Because I gotta go early in the morning to go visit my sick mother, so you gotta make me a bunch of snacks. So she's like, okay. So he's white knuckling through an episode of Unsolved Mysteries that's featuring himself while she's in the kitchen making snacks. And he's trying to extend it, going, oh, you made bologna. I really wanted ham.

[B]

Is there any Yoo Hoos in there? Can you pack some of those?

[A]

Where's the cold thing? It might be in the back of the freezer. Really look for it.

[B]

Could you make some Yoo Hoo, please?

[A]

I don't know how you make it. Just chop them up. The maid is better yeah, melt some Fudgesicles, would you? So he said that all of a sudden he needed to leave immediately because his mother's condition had taken a turn for the worse. So he's like, oh, my God. She helped him pack up quickly and he took off. Now, a friend of theirs had seen the show and been like, that guy looks just like Hank. They were like, no, that's gotta be a coincidence.

[B]

Did y' all see that?

[A]

She said, people look the same. But then she thought about it and she said, no, that's him.

[B]

Not that the same.

[A]

Not that. She said, I was watching TV and I thought, oh, Michigan. And then things kind of click, like, it kind of looks like him. But then Michigan and all these other stuff, things started popping up. She said, next thing I know, they flashed this picture on the screen. And I had no doubt in my mind it was him. It was so obvious it was him. I jumped up. It frightened me. So she called Mary and was like, dude, your boyfriend's a fucking murderer. And she's like, get the fuck out of here. She goes, no, seriously. Michigan, age description, and Mary. Then the girlfriend's like, oh, shit, this could be bad. Then they found out that she had written down the license plate number. Remember that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They had his license plate number on Unsolved Mysteries. They compared it. It's the same fucking guy. Oh, no. So they're like, oh, shit. So they call into the Unsolved Mysteries tip line.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Four hours after that, Louisiana state troopers see him driving his Chevy van on Interstate 20 heading toward Mississippi. So six hours ago, they were lounging. Now he's on the run and the cops are behind him. Holy shit. They tried to do a traffic stop, but he was not going in a 1984 Chevy van. He decides to gun it and make a run for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he's taken off. It's a high speed chase now. It's gonna last for 15 miles and go across state lines. Really, it escalates. More law enforcement joins. There's cop cars everywhere. It's now turned, like Smokey and the Bandit we got going on here.

[B]

It's gonna get crazy.

[A]

He's driving recklessly, blowing through fucking traffic lights. People are swerving out of the way, ignoring commands. He broke through two police roadblocks with his van. Just plowed right through him. It's crazy. So finally one of the sheriffs said, okay, if he tries to go through this road, stop this roadblock, shoot his tires out.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Really. And so the sheriff said, he drove right through the roadblock. But officers managed to shoot out a tire. Then we shot out another tire and he kept going. The van turned down the Intersturned on the interstate or off the interstate, and sped down several Vicksburg streets with both back tires blown out.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Shot out, I should say. Sparks flying everywhere, swerving still. Finally, he stopped. 4am March 21, 1991. Police surround the van. Dennis fires two shots through his windshield at the deputies and then fires another shot through the open window.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

The officers return fire, but the van is packed with bottom boxes and everything he owns, so everything just gets absorbed into the boxes. They said that they pulled. The sheriff said he pulled behind the van and fired a machine gun into the rear of the vehicle and nothing happened. Anyway, nothing happened. So officers rushed the van and they found him dead.

[B]

Damn it.

[A]

Shot himself in there.

[B]

Damn it.

[A]

Said his thumb was on the trigger. He had $16,000 in his pocket. Single bullet from a Ruger.300 and.57 went in his mouth and exited the back of his head dead.

[B]

Wow. He didn't even did it with a thumb.

[A]

Yep, with his thumb like that, squeezing. He said the van was full of clothes and boxes and our bullets were not getting to him. So he created a perfect little fortress for himself. But he was. Yeah, he was slumped over the steering wheel. And they said that means it was a suicide because one of the bullets would not have gone in that direction. They did the trajectory things. They go. It wasn't from us. That's himself. The sheriff said he chose to fight it out, but in the end, he took his own life. He died with his pistol in his hand, his thumb on the trigger, and 16,000 in his pocket. And only a few hours earlier, they had told his stories on Unsolved Mysteries. That's the quickest resolution. They said they found blood stains in the passenger side of the vehicle. They had the crime lab come in and they said it was not his blood. They determined it is Marilyn's blood. He never cleaned the blood off his fuck out of his mouth.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yep. So he's buried in Michigan.

[B]

He had blood in the car.

[A]

Yep, that's right.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

He was buried in Lagrange County, Indiana, and Marilyn was in Oakland county in, like, Detroit area there. It's pretty crazy. Now, Julie, the middle daughter, who was interviewed by Unsolved Mysteries, said she had been excited about the show, but said as it came to a close, the reality of it hit her, what it meant, that it was going to bring a lot of old wounds, that. That she was going to have to deal with her feelings about it. She became more hesitant and confused. Do I really want this to happen? Half of her wanted her father found, half didn't. She was scared that if he was found and there were a trial and he went to jail, she would have some obligation to visit him in prison. She didn't want to do that now. Betty, Marilyn's mother, said, I was terribly upset. I couldn't sleep. I'd wake up through the night, Things would flash in my mind. I think he did a lot more to Marilyn before he shot her. Scott told me he had kicked her in the face and stomped on it. I still get an empty feeling in the pit of my stomach. I remember her coming in to see me when I was so sick. She was the kindest person there was to everybody. I'll never get over it now. Very quickly, 2001, there's a movie called Jeepers Creepers. Remember this movie?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

There's a scene completely based on this.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. Apparently they said they've never acknowledged the connection, but the opening scenes of the film is the exact thing that Ray and Marie Thornton said on Unsolved Mysteries. Two people driving home from college when an aggressive driver in a truck nearly runs them off the road. And later they witness the same driver dumping what appears to be a body wrapped in a bloody sheet behind an abandoned church. And that's how the whole thing starts. So there's some legacy to this too. So there you go, everybody. That is insane. Fucking. That's a crazy case. I mean, it ends in a chase and machine gun fire, for Christ's sake. It's crazy. So wild stuff there.

[B]

What a day that is.

[A]

What a day. What a day. Mark, that was. That was crazy. Yeah, think about that. He was just eating dinner, kicking it with it in a recliner, and then by the end of that night, he's shot and shot himself after a fucking multi state chase. This is crazy. So, wow, we got to get to the end here. We're just about out of time here. But if you enjoy the show, get on whatever app you're on and give us five stars. It helps a ton. Shut upandgivemerder.com is where you get your tickets for live shows. Couple left in San Diego, I think. Otherwise we have Seattle, D.C. philly. Get those tickets right now. Shut up and give me murder.com patreon.com crimeinsports anybody, $5 a month or above, you get a giant back catalog episodes, hundreds of them. New ones every other week. One crime in sports, one Small Town Murder this week Crime in Sports Jeff Baum, Small Town Murder Poop Cruise. You get it all. And you also get all of our shows ad free. Crime and Sports, you stupid opinions both Small Town Murders ad free with your Patreon subscription. So thank you so much for doing that. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. Keep coming back and seeing us. Want to follow us on social media? Shut up and give me murder.com drop down menus. Take you where you want to go. Thank you so much everybody and until next week, it's been our pleasure.

[B]

Bye.