Like An Evil Onion - Whitewater, Colorado

Summary

Small Town Murder Podcast Summary

Episode: "Like An Evil Onion - Whitewater, Colorado"

Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman
Date: June 18, 2026

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Overview

James and Jimmie take us to remote Whitewater, Colorado, for an unsettling and layered murder case that unfurls "like an evil onion." The story centers around the suspicious death of Alan Helmick, a well-liked local businessman, and the investigation into the life—and many lies—of his widow, Miriam Helmick. As usual, the comedians weave in colorful local history, sharp observations about rural America, and plenty of darkly comedic asides as they trace Miriam’s “trail of insurance policies, fraud, forgery, and body count” across state lines.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Portrait of Whitewater, CO (06:00–15:00)

• Geography & Vibe: Ultra-remote, flat plains, not really "whitewater" territory as the name suggests.
  • "It's four hours from Denver, almost Wyoming. Nowhere near anything, essentially." - James (06:01)
• Small-Town Realities: Sparse reviews, few amenities, tough for families, expensive real estate despite ruralness, 40-acre lots the norm.
• Quirky Local Lore: The Ute “Grand Valley” curse, Thunderbird myths, and reported ghosts—a desperate grasp for identity and tourism (“They want to be Salem, Nantucket. But there’s just not much here.” - James, 10:18).

2. Crime & Safety (20:39–21:36)

• Low Crime Rates: Property and violent crime rates well below average. The biggest local danger is described as “being kicked by a mule.”
• Prevalence of Guns: Houses in the area are often armed with multiple firearms.

3. Victim & Suspect Biographies (32:56–44:19)

• Alan Helmick: Hard-working, kindly local boy turned banker/land developer/mortgage company owner—"A genuinely good man" (as said repeatedly by family). Lost first wife Sharon to a sudden heart attack after 50 years together.
• Miriam Morgan Helmick: Dance instructor and serial widow, trailed by family tragedies, suspicious insurance payouts, criminal fraud, and complex aliases. Described by some as a “ball of fire,” by others as “after a hot sugar daddy” and “not to be trusted.”

Notable Quote

“Barb [her former boss] said, 'She dances like an angel but she will rob you blind.'” (76:17)

4. Miriam’s Past: A Trail of Death & Fraud (49:40–56:54)

• Deceased daughter (overdose, $100k payout).
• Husband #1 (Jack Giles): Officially suicide by gunshot in bed beside her, $100k payout, ruled by her brother (a sheriff’s deputy)—but family says "something’s not right."
• Patterns of theft and arson, even against her own elderly father.

5. Alan & Miriam’s Relationship (2005–08): How To Land a Rich Widower (47:41–82:16)

• He takes ballroom dance lessons to prepare for a singles cruise but falls for Miriam, his instructor (12 years younger, recent widow).
• Romance is fast, sweet, and isolating—she controls contact with family, helps run his business, and gets him to bankroll her own (doomed) ventures.
• Alan’s accountant and family voice growing discomfort, his kids barely see him, and the couple’s finances get tangled.
• She forges checks, has a prenup that’s supposed to lock her out, but finds ways to drain his accounts.

Memorable Moment

“He was obviously desperate to be happy again…and was willing to do anything to make her happy.” (74:17)

6. Attempts on Alan’s Life (87:20–96:24)

• April 30, 2008: Classic arson fail—Miriam "needs to change shoes" at the trunk, Alan sees smoke, trunk is on fire, police find lighter-fluid-soaked wick jammed in the gas tank. Only a full tank saves him from an explosion. Miriam acts evasive, walks four lanes away to use the bathroom, which reeked of… lighter fluid.
  • “She said, 'I took the wick in the bathroom—Alan told me to!' But Alan didn’t recall that.” (93:57)
• Police suspicion: Investigators become convinced Miriam's the architect but Alan refuses to see it ("Why would she do that? She gets nothing! We've got a prenup!” - 96:24).

7. The Murder – June 10, 2008 (105:49–113:16)

• Miriam leaves the house early to shop (has receipts, cell phone pings, store cam footage). Lunch plans with Alan are missed; she claims to discover him dead at home. The house is laughably staged: drawers open but contents untouched, trash tipped, cash & guns in plain sight, nothing stolen.
  • “It looks like if your set designer from a small movie never saw a real robbery—drawers open, wallet on the floor, nothing actually missing.” – James (27:29)
• Alan: single .25 caliber bullet to the back of the head, history of poor health but cause of death is clear.

8. The Threatening Card (113:43–126:03)

• Miriam “discovers” a chilling greeting card: “Allen was first. You’re next. Run run run.” But the ingenuity unravels—it's a card only sold in three stores nearby, surveillance video catches Miriam herself buying it. She claims she “planted it to spur the police to action” (!).
  • “[The card]—that really fucked our whole case.” – Defense, summarized (165:03)

9. Unraveling the Motive: Money & Exposure (120:53–121:03)

• The prenup bars her from Alan’s pre-marriage assets, but Miriam’s been steadily draining his bank accounts, forging checks, and covering business debts in a way that could be easily exposed. For her, his death meant a clean escape from mounting exposure and jail.

10. Evidence Mountain: Fraud, Physical & Digital (130:56–169:08)

• Forged checks, forgeries, computer searches for poisons, Ambien/Viagra/fatal dose combos, “how to put a horse down at home.”
• The legendary .25 bullet recovery: 20 years ago, Alan’s first wife’s stepdad fired a .25 into the ground as a warning shot. Cops locate the exact spot, unearth the slug, and match ballistics to the bullet in Alan’s head.
  • “They pulled a 20-year-old slug out of the ground… If that’s not good police work, what is?” (154:13)
• Rope used as gas-tank wick matches Miriam's horse supplies. Gunshot residue on her steering wheel.
• Digital evidence: 39 driver’s license images on her computer—past, future, and potential identities.

11. Trial & Aftermath (169:20–174:54)

• Miriam testifies; the defense leans on "no direct evidence" (no gun, no GSR, solid alibi). Prosecution buries her with evidence of motive, isolation, card forgery, “missing” money, and that fateful bullet match.
• Verdict: Guilty on all counts after just five hours of jury deliberation.
• Sentence: Life without parole + 108 years.

Notable Quote

“She is found guilty of everything.” (170:46)

“This... is fucking diabolical.” - James (180:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Town/Setting: 06:00–20:39
• Victim/Suspect Backgrounds: 32:56–44:19
• Miriam’s Backstory/Lies/Arson: 49:40–56:54
• The Arson Attempt: 87:20–96:24
• The Murder: 105:49–113:16
• The Threatening Card: 113:43–126:03
• Unmasking Miriam & Evidence: 130:56–169:08
• The Verdict & Sentencing: 169:20–174:54

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Alan’s Denial:

  “He told me Miriam would never hurt him. He said, ‘There’s no way it could have been Miriam. She has no reason to kill me. I’m worth way more to her alive than dead.’” (96:24)

• On the Arson Botch:

  “If Alan was lazy and hadn’t filled his tank that morning, he would have exploded.” (93:20)

• On the Staged Burglary:

  “It looks like if your set designer from a small movie never saw a real robbery… But in reality, you’re like, there’s nothing taken. This is a shit robbery.” (27:29)

• On Miriam in the Card Aisle:

  “How do you walk into the card aisle and go, ‘This one’s creepy’?” - James (126:24)

• On Small-Town, Big Lies:

  “There’s not a lot of murder around here. This is kind of a big deal.” (127:54)

• On Community Impact:

  “In small towns, this just doesn’t happen here… And I think it made people realize it can happen anywhere.” (173:32)

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Tone & Style

As always, the hosts fuse extensive research, dark humor, and standout banter. Their sympathetic (but unsparing) approach to both tragedy and the sometimes-far-fetched characters populating small-town America is punctuated by riffing on area quirks, punchy analogies ("She was after a hot sugar daddy"), and gleeful mockery of criminal incompetence.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a sharp, revealing look at how greed, loneliness, and a talent for lies can escalate from forgery to cold-blooded murder—and just how much of a mess one person can leave behind. It’s also a showcase for the investigators’ (and a daughter’s) tenacity, with that single .25 slug standing out as a symbol of “good police work meets dumb criminal luck.” As the story peels layer after layer, listeners are left with empathy for Alan, cringe for Miriam’s targets, and one resounding lesson: Even in the quietest places, people can be "like an evil onion."

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For more: Support the show at shutupandgivememurder.com, get live show tickets, and check out their Patreon for bonus content.

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Note: All timestamps in MM:SS format are approximate, based on transcript and podcast pacing. For clarity, ad/promo content, intro/outro, and extended Patreon shoutouts are omitted from this summary.

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[James Petregallo]

This week in Whitewater, Colorado, a brutally murdered man sparks an investigation that shows that someone may have been after him for a while, even trying to blow up his car weeks before. But a threatening note to his widow blows the case wide open. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yay.

[James Petregallo]

Yay indeed. Jimmy, you Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm Jimmy Wisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely crazy, trust me edition of Small Town.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I believe it.

[James Petregallo]

Not that we, you know, ever not. We don't ever deliver a non crazy one. You know, there's so much murder to check.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Just mailed in.

[James Petregallo]

Just mailed in this one. Yeah. Not taking a whole lot, you know, a whole lot of care with this one. Not real interesting and we just threw it together. So here it is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're busy this week.

[James Petregallo]

We're real busy. No crazy story coming up. We will get to that before we do. Absolutely. Head over to shutupandgivemerder.com fine. Everything there, merchandise, everything from skateboards to shower curtains to coffee cups and especially get your tickets for live shows. Let's do this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

After the summer, we are back in full force. This is a rough September and October for us, but good for you guys. We will be at the Pabst in Milwaukee on September 18, which is one of the best venues in the country. Beautiful. It's just fantastic. And the shows are always great there. It's a good time. Then the next day we'll be in Minneapolis, which is one of our favorite places to play as well. We love it there. We'll be at The State Theater there. Get your tickets now. Milwaukee's out selling you guys. You can't let that happen. Get in there. Minneapolis, then also September 3rd, Dallas, September 16th, San Jose, the 17th in Sacramento and then in November, the 13th and 14th in Tarrytown, New York and Boston. So get your tickets right now and get in there and see us. Shut up and give me murder.com as well as listen to our other shows. Crime in Sports. If you are into cults and murders, you're gonna love what we're doing right now. A multi part series on Yahweh Ben Yahweh Cult. And it's crazy, all the murders. We get into a lot of detail there and then your stupid opinions is absolutely hilarious and you gotta see, you just have to hear it. It's crazy. And then on top of that, get Patreon. My God, what are you waiting for? Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. All you have to be is $5 a month or above. That has not gone up in 10 years and it is not gonna go up $5 a month or above. And you get everything we put out and I'm talking about everything. As soon as you subscribe you're going to get hundreds of back bonus episodes you've never heard before. Immediately it's upon subscription. Then you're going to get new ones every other week. One Crime in sports, one Small town murder and you get them all. That's it. This week what you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about hostage situations which we did the Stockholm one and it's so interesting, the dynamics that go on in a hostage breakdown. So we're really gonna check that out then for Small town Murder Corey Richards part three. Her sentencing happened and it wasn't just a mere sentencing. Her kid statements came in which contradict everything she said happened that night. They talk about being forced to eat uncooked lasagna and all this crazy stuff from her. And then she does an Alex Ocean. That's crazy too. So it's wild. Corey Richards. Yes she is. Cory Richards part three. So that's patreon.com crimeinsports and on top of all of that you get all the shows we put out, Crime and Sports, you stupid opinion. Small town murder all ad free with your Patreon and ad free. Oh wait, there's more, there's more.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jimmy, what's that?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, on top of that you get a shout out at the end of the show. Where Jimmy will try his hardest to pronounce your name correctly. And if it's Malachi, he'll get it right, as we found out from your stupid opinions. Whereas I will call you Malachi. So there you go. That said disclaimer time. This is a comedy show.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sure is.

[James Petregallo]

We're comedians. People are gonna die because the show's called Small Town Murder. And we're gonna make jokes. And you go, well, how do those things go together? Real easily. Real easily. Here's how we do it. We don't make fun of the victims or the victim's families.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But.

[James Petregallo]

But we're not scumbags. See how that works? It's real simple like that. There's plenty to make fun of. A bumbling police force that lets a murderer go free, making fun of a murderer, that's fun. Maybe some small town festival we'll pick on or something. That's where the comedy lies. It's all good. So do that. Keep coming back. But here's the deal. If you think true crime and comedy should never go together, maybe we're not for you, but probably we are. I think you should check it out. Either way, no complaining later. And that said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody clear the lungs here, and let's all shout, shut up

[Jimmy Wisman]

and give me murder.

[James Petregallo]

Well, let's go on a trip. Let's do this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We've got it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, we have to. We're going to Colorado, which we're never mad at going.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God, it's amazing.

[James Petregallo]

We like it. Loved our Denver show there at the Paramount. Man, that was a great night. Just terrific. This is whitewater Colorado, which seems like, you know, just a. On the river, a term for rafting here, but it's whitewater Colorado, north, central Colorado. It is. It's about four hours to Denver, so it's not close.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh my fuck, it's almost Wyoming.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's. Cause it's kind of northwest a little bit, but central.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, west.

[James Petregallo]

And then I don't know if it's west. And then it's another four and a half hours to Salt Lake City if you want to go the other direction. So it's nowhere near anything, essentially.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

Five hours to Greeley, Colorado. Or last Colorado episode. Episode 663. Sorry, I saw the title and laugh. The panty sniffing wife killer. See why that made me laugh? This is in Very Greeley. Very Greeley. That's what a lot of people said when that came out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Out. It's such a gross place.

[James Petregallo]

Such a Greely type of crime. This is in Mesa county, up on the high ground there. And this is like, you know, 4800ft elevation up in this area. It's pretty, pretty high. Area code 970. Now, for history, I'm going to do some urban legends or some rural legends that are nearby here as we'll get to the history.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, urban, my ass.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Not a lot of urban anything around here. One is the Ute curse, or the Grand Valley Curse, they call it. It's the most famous local legend. I guess when the Ute people were forcibly removed from the Grand Valley in 1881 and moved into reservations. See, there'd be history mixed in with these. They supposedly placed a curse on the land and the settlers there. The curse dooms anyone who lives in the valley, especially natives. Apparently, if you go there, then you're a sellout. So no matter how far they go or how successful they become elsewhere, if you go there, that's what you do. So what happens? You're cursed. You're cursed. I don't know what that entails, but you're cursed.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You spit your guts out or do you just lose everything?

[James Petregallo]

Your dick doesn't get as hard as you really want it to. Maybe it's just small annoyances. That'd be the best curse to put on someone, by the way. Nevermind anything big. Their kids dying. Small annoyances.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You always get booked in a hotel room far from the desk, and every time you get there, your card key doesn't work.

[James Petregallo]

It doesn't work. And you have to go home. All the way down 14 floors, you have to do all of that? Yeah. Little shit like that, I feel like, would be the most annoying to human beings. Make it. The guy in front of you, every time the light turns green, he waits eight seconds to go. Every time, no matter where you are, like, that's a curse to me. Yeah, it's way worse than anything else.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Horrible guac is never free.

[James Petregallo]

Never. Always, always. Two bucks, too. Not even 75 cents.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Two bucks. They never make a mistake and you get something free. They always charge you double for. I got two drinks. I only got one drink.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, and I didn't even order this kind. Perfect. And I got charged twice for it. That's a curse. That's what I mean. Minor annoyances, that'll drive somebody crazy. They'll lose their pocket.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every time you go for a soda, it's always Orange Crush.

[James Petregallo]

Always.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't want that.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, sometimes Once in a while. But not every day. Not every day.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So there's another one. The Grand Mesa Thunderbirds. Ute legend holds it that giant thunderbirds, massive eagle like birds once lived atop Grand Mesa. And these powerful creatures ruled the skies. And the thunderbirds attacked a Ute village and carried off children. Which they'd have to be some pretty big birds to carry off a child.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A thunderbird never existed, right?

[James Petregallo]

No, I don't think so.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't think so.

[James Petregallo]

I think it's legend. An eagle can't carry off a Pomeranian, so it has to be something here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Apparently this is a big ass eagle.

[James Petregallo]

Very big. In one of these legends, a warrior disguised himself as a tree. I don't know how you do that. Climbed to the nest and avenged the village by throwing the thunderbird eggs off the cliff. Oh. And in revenge or for battle, the birds tore apart a giant serpent. Pieces fall. And created the many lakes of the Grand Mesa. This is a legend that goes on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

People would believe anything.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, anything. And there's also a lot of ghosts. The Horsethief Canyon lady. A woman in a long white dress appears after dark. Downtown Grand Junction has a bunch of buildings that report ghosts and things like that. So they're kind of getting off on this a little bit. Like in Widow's Bay, which you finally watch. Thank you. When they're saying you want to be Salem, you want to be Nantucket. I get it. You need to draw people with some weird shit because there's not really enough to draw them in otherwise. Reviews of this town. Not a lot of them to find. There is not a lot of people here. Here is four stars. And it says it's peaceful. It's a great place to live if you want a couple of acres of elbow room. If you want to walk.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's four hours from any city anywhere. This is.

[James Petregallo]

Everything is super rural too. Like all the houses are just. There's nothing around them at all. It's just this flat ground. It's just flat too. There's a lot of flat and there's like, you know, mountains in the distance and shit. But it's here. It doesn't look too great.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's the area of Colorado that's booming right now because there's. All the mountains are taken and so people are going east, but they're finding. East. That's fucking flat.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, there's nothing here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's where everybody with money's going though, like Parker and shit. And it's flat. Bullshit and yellow.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's everything Here, everything's dead. All dead grass. Looks like Arizona. Gross. It says if you want to walk across the street to buy a soda, look elsewhere. The nearest gas station or grocery store is six miles away from this house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's a long walk.

[James Petregallo]

It's a long walk. And then finally, this one's one star. Education, question mark, question mark. There are zero schools in this area. The nearest school is 10 plus miles away. That's a grade school. The nearest middle school is over 15 miles away. And the nearest high school is over 30 miles away. And it's about an hour bus ride for the kids every day.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Jesus Christ. Even in the Old west, they'd stick a schoolhouse up once in a while when there'd be a town. I mean, put some shit up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You gotta be up at 4 in the morning to go to school.

[James Petregallo]

That's crazy. Now, here's the people stats. This is for. There's no stats for, like, the town. This is for the zip code of 81527. So that encompasses the town and a bunch of nothing around it. Basically, the population in this area is 1975. It's more like 500 in Whitewater. Kind of proper. There it is. More men than women. I assume there's like outdoor jobs and shit going on. Must be 53.1% men, which is way out of whack. We never see that unless it's like a logging town or something. Median age here. Older too. 51.3. Much older than the national average. So that's pretty old. It is 71.6% married, which I don't know if the courthouse is just too far away to go file paperwork maybe. I'm not sure.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's gotta be. It's gotta be closer than a half hour away.

[James Petregallo]

Well, I'd like to divorce you, but that's about an hour and a half ride to that courthouse. And I don't think so. I don't hate you that much.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is this even on the river to call it whitewater?

[James Petregallo]

I don't think it's like on the river. On the river. Because even in, like, the things to do, I don't see a lot of rafting.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

As things to do. No. As we'll get to that here too now. It has the lowest single with children rate I've ever seen. 2.6%.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So I think a lot of the

[Jimmy Wisman]

people are staying together.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. And race in this town. 93.2% white, 0.1% black.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

0.1.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a guy, right?

[James Petregallo]

That's a one dude. Yeah. Hi. Hi. I'm Jeff. Yeah, I'm the Black population here. 0.0% Native American. I guess they did get the utes out of there. Holy shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No shit.

[James Petregallo]

6.6% Hispanic. So religion.

[Jimmy Wisman]

These motherfuckers cursed. I'm not coming around here.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's cursed. They weren't supposed to go back. The curse is extra for them. 35.7% of the people here are religious. And it is a real mixed bag of everything. I think the highest is LDS at 7.2%. So it's just a few people here and there. Unemployment, little bit high, a little bit over the national average. There's nowhere to go. Yeah, it's like seven and a half percent median household income here. Regular. Rest of the country, 69,000 bucks. Here it's $77,000 a year. So they're making money. A lot of this shit is like. There's like some farms up here, ranches, things like that. The cost of living 100 is average. Here it is 99. So just about average. Housing is not average. That's high. It's expensive to live up here, really.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean they got to fix Colorado. It's outrageous.

[James Petregallo]

Most of the properties have a shitload of land with them or at least 15, 20 acres, something like that. So that helps. Median home price here, 454,100 bucks, which is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's pretty high.

[James Petregallo]

That's steep for the middle of nowhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ten acres, that's not so bad.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but for the middle of nowhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I feel like it should be cheaper, but I don't know. You said Colorado's for the rancher.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

There you go. So if we've convinced you. Dammit. Maybe you don't care if you. The high school's 30 miles away and you don't need a gas station anywhere near you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ranch hand. Well, get after it.

[James Petregallo]

If that's you, everybody, we have for you. The Whitewater Colorado real estate report. The average two bedroom rental here goes for $1,070, which is actually below the national average by a good amount. There's house number one. And the way they show it, it's like this flat land with this giant rock mountain behind it, which is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's awesome.

[James Petregallo]

Pretty cool looking. Yeah, it's pretty cool looking. There's houses behind you too, but that's also there. This is a three bedroom, two bath, 1528 square feet. It looks like it could use some updating, maybe some shit like that, you know, not perfect, but nice. It's On a two acre lot. That's as small a lot as you're going to find in this place. This is $325,000 for this and it just had a price cut of 20 grand.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

They say this home has been a high performing Airbnb and the seller is willing to share business financials with qualified buyers. So you're buying an Airbnb? I don't know. I'm not sure who's coming here to stay in an Airbnb.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I've never even heard of this shit.

[James Petregallo]

And you know Colorado pretty well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Here's a three bedroom, two bath. This. Oh my God. 2,036 square feet. The house looks like a manufactured house with a metal roof. And it's got one of those corrugated steel barns that's like a.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

One of those. It looks like a greenhouse, but made of steel. It's tin tin, whatever the hell it is. And it is just a flat brown mess piece of shit. It's expansive. I mean the view is like wild going down this. But it's not worth it on 40 acres, mind you, by the way, 500,000

[Jimmy Wisman]

bucks, that's a deal.

[James Petregallo]

If you saw this though, you'd go, well, you gotta build a house. And it would cost you another million dollars to set this up. Half decent.

[Jimmy Wisman]

40 acres for half a million dollars is a pretty decent deal.

[James Petregallo]

It's 40 acres. There isn't even a fucking tree here though. Nothing. It's 40 acres of nothing. Of brown dead grass, yellow. That's all you're getting. And so much dirt. If the wind kicks up, it is a dust storm. It's not good. And then finally. Yeah, exactly. In your teeth. Five bedroom, five bath, tea bowl for each and every B hole. 4,301 square feet.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy.

[James Petregallo]

Also on 40 acre lots. And we'll tell from this story. 40 acre lots are very common here for some reason. They broke it up in the 40s because our. In our murder story, the lot is 40 acres too, that they live on.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's gotta be something in history that 40 acres is the right number because it's enough for a farm.

[James Petregallo]

It's in the.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's so common.

[James Petregallo]

So yeah, this is 40.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Whatever.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. This is a big giant house. It's nice. It's got all sorts of rock stuff. It's weird looking, but it's not bad on 40 acres. $1,750,000 for that.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Which seems like about what you're gonna pay for that and all that land and stuff. They have a tree, even this one. So that's nice. Hey, look at that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A million doll.

[James Petregallo]

We got a tree for a million dollars. For half a million you get no tree.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

For an extra half million you get a nicer house and a tree. That's how it works. Things to do here. This is the Palisade Bluegrass and Roots Festival 2026. It'll take place. Actually, it's taking place right now as we're speaking, I think, in Palisade, Colorado, which is the next town over, I think here. And their lineup here. This is for. On a just a booming Friday, we have the Still House String Band, the Slocan Ramblers. S L O K A N or C A N. I guess that's probably somebody's name.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Probably.

[James Petregallo]

Or a place, I'm not sure. 5:30 Magoo.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Not Mr. Not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And Timberland's not with him.

[James Petregallo]

Just Magoo. Yeah, that's it. This is crazy. At 7:45, Daniel Donato's Cosmic Country.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fuck.

[James Petregallo]

What is this guinea doing in fucking Colorado? Doing cosmic country. Yeah. Open it. Just say New York style pizza. They'll look at you and they'll believe it. Don't worry about it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Get it? Denver meets you, my friend.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, Go there. And then at 5 and 7pm so playing kind of before and after is the Queen Bees band.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh boy.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know what that is, but they seem like they're kind of like the roaming house band of the day. They're on the back porch stage.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Where are they? They're out back on the porch. All righty.

[Jimmy Wisman]

B stage. Where's that? Walk out the back doors.

[James Petregallo]

You know the back door?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Careful, you'll hit them.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that screen door swings wide.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It swings.

[James Petregallo]

Just let them know you're there so the stand up bass player can move aside for you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're gonna whack one of the bees in the knee.

[James Petregallo]

That's exactly what's gonna happen. That is fucking wild. And I guess they have other shit there. It's Friday through Sunday, so they must have other shit going on all weekend.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Huh?

[James Petregallo]

All weekend they have performances on two stages, the regular stage and the back porch stage. So it's all happening now. Crime rate here, what we're interested in property crime is about 20% below the national average. So I can't imagine it even be that high. There's nothing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I can't believe there's any crime at all. This is so. Yes. So far.

[James Petregallo]

Well, if you have the gumption to drive miles to someone's house to rob them. You just get a job. It'd be. You know what I mean? You have the same. You can get up and go. You have something in you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Two hours into that ride to be like, we gotta do this again.

[James Petregallo]

Should we just put an application in somewhere on the way? This is crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If we make a U turn, we can get back to Dunn the same amount of time.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, shit. Yeah. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about 25% below the national average again. And I feel like being kicked by a mule would be the most violent crime that happens here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Like, still seems outrageous.

[James Petregallo]

Seems like a lot. So let's find out. That said, let's talk about some murder. What do you say?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

Let's do this. Okay, now we're gonna go back. Not too far. Not too far. Things are pretty much the same in terms of how your life is. It's not like the 60s or something. June 10, 2008. Yeah, not bad. This is at noon on June 10, 2008. 911 call comes in, and it's from a woman hysterically crying on the phone. She can't even, like, get out her address. It's. It's. She's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that seems to be like fucking 70% of 911 calls. It's.

[James Petregallo]

You know what? Don't call 911 unless you're H. You're wasting our tax dollars at that point. You're wasting our money.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If you've got it together, you don't need us.

[James Petregallo]

If you can calmly pick up 911 and go, okay, here's the deal. You can call the regular number. This is for emergencies. I want people going, I'm on fire. I'm literally on fucking fire. Oh, my God, it hurts. That's 911.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. If you can compose sentences, it's not bad enough for us.

[James Petregallo]

The first sentence should be, I can't stop the bleeding. That should be the first sentence of every 911 call. Or else I'm not interested.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, where's your emergency? Let me tell you about it first. Cause it's fucking crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Cause it's crazy. That's every call. So anyway, police received this call, and it's from a hysterical woman saying that someone apparently has broken into her house. She said, it comes out. She's saying, I just got home, Someone broke into my house, and my husband's dead. He's dead. Oh, dead. Dead on the floor. She said, I found him. He's in a pool of blood. And as we'll find out, also a.25 caliber bullet hole in the back of his head as well. Yeah, so not great. Now the deputies and paramedics reach the scene and it's a remote property. It's out there. It's on 40 acres at the end of a dead end in the middle of fucking nowhere. And that's how this is. They come into the house and they find a woman named Miriam, as we'll find out who she is. Miriam. And she is the, the hurt or dead man's wife, however you want to look at it at this point. And they find her kneeling over this man's body, crying hysterically, sobbing and crying and, oh God, now the dead man. And they don't know he's dead because they haven't even got to try to check for vitals or perform CPR or anything. But this man is Alan Helmick. H E L M I C K. And if you go looking that up, you're going to put Hemlich every single time. And then you're going to go, God damn it. Because I did that 30 times while I was doing research and my phone

[Jimmy Wisman]

would correct that to Heimlich and teach me the maneuver.

[James Petregallo]

It's all messed up. He's a 64 year old man at this point. He's found lying on his back in a pool of blood near the kitchen. I'm sorry, near. In the entry or living room area. Now, several drawers in his desk are opened, but there's not. The contents of the drawers are still. It's not even like rifle.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's open, but everything's still there.

[James Petregallo]

Everything. But they're all opened. They're all right there. Now Alan is lying inches away or lying on the ground and inches away from him is his wallet sitting there just on the floor. So we have open drawers, nothing taken, and his wallet sitting there. There's a china cabinet in the living room that nobody touches at all. It's undisturbed. There's a jewelry box on a master bedroom dresser that appears open and it looks like maybe some contents are missing. Looks like it's been shuffled here. Nearby, in the master bathroom, jewelry sits in plain view in an open and undisturbed jewelry box. So if this is a robbery, it's a terrible robbery.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They were looking for something specific and this ain't it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, this is crazy. Also, there are six firearms in the house. Now, many of them are rifles. They're found in several locations in the home. Three of the rifles were in plain view on a downstairs bed. Anybody Looking in rooms for shit that's easily sellable. There they are. They said that there weren't sure. In the end though, they didn't know. They could never figure out if those guns from that room were on the bed to begin with or if law enforcement found them and laid them on the bed. Like somebody going through the house laid them out like that. So they're not sure, but either way they were there and there was like six guns in the house. So immediately. Well, not immediately, but within a little while, there's a photographer there, like a press photographer shows up. Because this is from what it looks like, very rural, middle of nowhere area where a deadly home invasion has happened.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So, yeah, some in cold bloodshed.

[James Petregallo]

This is not normal out there too. So like the media in this area, they're like, holy shit. They freak out and they want to tell if this is some salacious shit that people are going to want to hear about.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So it's just wild that like even in cold blood they got like $27 or some shit like that. It was like a. It was a very. But this like you could have had a much bigger score.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

For the price you paid.

[James Petregallo]

Not only that, he's a businessman. He lives in a very nice house, as we'll talk about, and 40 acres and clearly has a few bucks. And you went for this short shit score like this, it's kind of crackheady, you know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

He killed a person.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Killed this guy. So the media goes and runs with it immediately that this rural area and nobody's safe and lock your doors, get your rifles ready now. To the cops, though, the scene doesn't look right.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

Just doesn't look. Yeah. For a burglary.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All those parts already. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They don't see it. Yeah, it looks more like. They said it looks like somebody like if you were filming like an independent film and you told your set designer, make it look like a robbery, but they've never seen a robbery before. So they're like. I mean, there's drawers open, you know, I guess that's what people would do. Like that's what it looks like. And then you stand back and go, yeah, that's right. That looks like a robbery.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Everything's open.

[James Petregallo]

Everything's open. Which, you know, just in a long shot in a frame, looks like a robbery. Dead guy, things, you know, rifled. But in reality, when you really look into it, you're like, there's nothing taken. This is a shit robbery. Hey, everybody. Jess, gonna take a quick break from the show. To tell you about dose.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Dose daily-o s e-daily.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

You know what, you got problems or pain, obviously. But you know what's easier than fixing a problem that's not ever having that problem in the first place. That's the way to go about it. So your liver is one of those organs that you just don't think about. It's just working, doing its thing. You don't have to think about it. Supporting it daily though, is one of those small things that can make a huge difference in how you feel overall. You're really taking advantage of your liver if you think about it. So I'm telling you, this dose does great things for your liver. Doses for your liver is clinically backed with liver health supplements. Here. This isn't just another capsule or powder. Dose is a liquid supplement. It's taken in a daily 2 ounce shot that tastes like fresh squeezed orange juice. Nothing wrong with that. Dose cleanses the liver of unwanted stressors that's slowing your liver down. It promotes daily liver function so your liver can do its job. Zero sugar, zero junk, zero calories. Also, that's big here. And the liver is your body's filter. It processes everything you consume and performs over 500 daily functions. It's working for you. It's your workhorse. It's your body's workhorse. You know, energy production, digestion, fat metabolism, vitamin storage, important stuff. And the liver helps make the processes happen every day. And when it's overworked, you're gonna feel it. So you can take this dose though. You're gonna reduce sluggishness, get rid of those midday crashes, support your metabolism and even aid in your digestion. And it's got real results with two double blind placebo controlled studies showing its positive impact on liver enzyme levels. So it's good stuff. Make your liver feel better. What's wrong with everybody out there? You want to have a lousy liver? No, you don't. No lousy livers you need. Dose daily. Do that. Ready to give your liver the support it deserves. Head to Dosedaily Co Smalltown or enter Small Town to get 35% off your first subscription. Your body does so much for you. Let's do something for it. That's D O S E D A I L Y Co Smalltown for 35% off your first month subscription.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you the much better way to feed your dog with

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ollie O l L I E dot com.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Ollie's the best. We love our dogs here. We love them. Jimmy's got three dogs. Jimmy's got two dogs. I have three dogs. I reversed our dog count there. We love her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They're the best.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he's got a puppy. Growing up and everything like that. Dogs are members of our family, and you should treat your dog like a member of your family. I mean, treat him, get him good food, get him, you know, good stuff here. And Ollie gets it. That's the thing. If anyone gets being dog obsessed, it's Ollie. They are relentless. They want to deliver the best food and the best experience, not only for your dog, but for you too, right? You're gonna get joy out of seeing this. And they also give you a way to check in on their health over and over and over again. It really is great. Ollie has fresh recipes. They're developed by real chefs and backed by vet nutritionists as well. They're obsessed with making the best meals with the highest quality ingredients. And that's what you see. You see real ingredients. There's real food in there. This isn't a bunch of garbage that you can't tell what it is. This is something. You look at it and go, I'm gonna grab my fork.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That looks great.

[James Petregallo]

This looks great. I'll have some with you, buddy. And it's all the whole thing. From the moment you start your subscription, everything is tailored right to your pup. The meals are perfectly portioned. You get a puptainer and a scoop for easily storing and serving the food. And with Ollie, it's not just food. Also, through their app, you can check in on your dog health with real vets as well. All you have to do is upload a picture and their team checks on everything. They check on your dog's weight, digestion, teeth and coat. And because they are obsessed with making sure your pup is as healthy as can be, this is just. They love doing this after switching to Ollie. Honestly, my dogs love it. Their poop is better. They're happy as can be when they're being served food. They want more and more and they just love it because it's so good.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Whenever a tree assaults you with his tail whip, when it's time jacked, they're

[James Petregallo]

tail wagon shiny coating Happy times here. So get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to ollie.com stm and tell them all about your dog. And use the code STM to get 70% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus, they offer an obsession guarantee. If you're not completely obsessed. You'll get your money back. That's O l l I e dot com. STM. Enter code STM to get 70% off your first box.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

So let's find out who these people are and what's going on here and possibly who killed this man. This is Alan Clark. Hemlich is his name. He's born August 27, 1945, Almec. You mean Helmik. Did I say Hemlich again? The amount of times I looked it up like that, and it's like, no, I had to go back and change it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It makes more sense. Like it sounds more like a last name. Helmlich doesn't sound like a last name.

[James Petregallo]

No, Hemlich sounds like a last name for some reason. Like Hemlock. I don't know. Some as a word that Helmick sounds

[Jimmy Wisman]

like you misspelled helmet man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah. Or something you'd call an Irish guy that you're not happy with.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Something bad. Mick.

[James Petregallo]

He's a very, very bad boy. So he's born in Delta, Colorado, which is on the western slope here. This isn't ski lodges or any of that shit. This is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, this is bad area.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, desert people live there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's just not pretty.

[James Petregallo]

Let's be realistic. They're out of their minds.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Something's wrong on that side of the mountain.

[James Petregallo]

Nuts over there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Too much sun over there or something.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. Yeah, it's not natural.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sun beats on that western side.

[James Petregallo]

And imagine being there, knowing just over this hill, it's so much nicer. But you can't go there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's amazing over there. Why are we here?

[James Petregallo]

It's beautiful and we're here. It makes no sense.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We don't even have to get to the whole other side. There's several towns in between that are

[James Petregallo]

incredible, that are much better. It's like. At least in Arizona when you're in Phoenix, you go, well, far as the eye can see, it's shit. That's it. There's nothing. There's no. I mean, you have to drive hours and hours to the ocean to get it somewhere that's half decent. Otherwise east, you could drive for 24 fucking hours and it's ugly. It looks like that forever till you hit Louisiana.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's literally two hours through those mountains and you're like this. Why'd we stop over there?

[James Petregallo]

Who was the lazy fuck that stopped there and didn't go to the better part?

[Jimmy Wisman]

All the horses died or something.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah, Maybe it's so hot over here that's what happened. Alan's born in this area, Delta, Colorado. It seems like he has a brother and three sisters. From what I can make out now. He's a pitcher for Delta High when he was a kid in the varsity team. Yeah. Baseball guy. He's in the class of 63.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good Lord.

[James Petregallo]

Wow, that is so back there. That's when he graduated. He ends up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

People are still doing that today though. There's a shitload of those small towns where graduating class is seven. It's fucking crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Well, no, this is 1963. He graduates. That was a long time ago. Physics degree he ends up getting from Adams State College. Physics, that's complicated shit. Then in 1967, after he graduates from Adams, he marries his high school sweetheart who he has been with since they were 14.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Talk about like old time, small timey shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You meet a girl. You meet a girl when you're a freshman and then you stay with her and then you go. Well, after I graduate and could make a way for us, then we'll get married. It's very old school here. They'll end up having four children together. Same. And it's kind of his deal too. He's got. Because he had a brother and three sisters. He has a son and three daughters.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How about that?

[James Petregallo]

So they have Alan Jr. Which despite our crime and sports apprehension for any juniors. Seems Alan. Seems like he's nice enough to name his kid Junior. He's got three daughters. Porsche. Not like the car. Like de Rossi.

[Jimmy Wisman]

S H, huh? Oh. T A, T I A T I

[James Petregallo]

A P O, R T I A Porsche. Which is. Portia. De Rossi's. Australian. So I get that these people are from Colorado.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't know where he even found that name.

[James Petregallo]

No. And then especially in the 1970s, who knows? Wendy and Christy, which are very American names.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Now Alan's career here, he works his way up. Alan. Back then it's possible to work your way up. You can get a ground level job somewhere and make your way up in the company. He could be goddamn vice president in 20 years. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Did he do something with physics?

[James Petregallo]

No, he was a bank manager, which is the opposite of physics. The complete opposite of physics. I guess. He likes definite things.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He can tell you the fucking. The gravitational pull of something. But he's going to count out 20s. Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Well, think about the laws of physics. They are what they are. And numbers in a bank are what they are. So maybe that he likes definite things. I think he's real. What? Left brain Is that the one that would make you do that? Whichever one that's into math and shit, he's into that. Yeah, he's into that part. Whatever part. That we don't use me and you. That we use the other side of the brain.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What's the one that can help you keep a conversation going?

[James Petregallo]

That one. We got that. But I guarantee you Alan's not funny. That's a fact. I guarantee you he's not. He can't be. But he becomes a land developer after this. Some. I don't know how you become a land developer. That seems like something you need money to start out with. And.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, there's capital or you take a loan.

[James Petregallo]

That's true.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You got to believe in the land and you got to know what it's worth.

[James Petregallo]

I feel like back then again, easier to start anything back.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And land development, probably back then was much easier too, because you weren't handcuffed by preservation society and all that shit.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Back then.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You could just fucking plant houses on shit and sell it.

[James Petregallo]

And there's a lot of. Also westward migration at this point, too. So the timing is right here, because I remember the late 60s is when Hunter Thompson was complaining about the real estate going crazy in Aspen and ruining everything. Basically all the mountains over there just

[Jimmy Wisman]

fucking expanded like mad.

[James Petregallo]

So he founded a company, too. Helmick Helmic Mortgage as well. So he's a land developer with a mortgage company. So I got the land to sell you and I'll lend you the fucking money. Which is where the money's at, by the way. Anyway, he's the bank. Yeah, yeah. That's why there's loan sharks, because you keep paying the fucking vig. If you can sign normal people up to pay vig for 30 years and it's legal. Holy shit. Like you're a gangster at that point.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do the math. When you buy a house and see what you really pay for that.

[James Petregallo]

You're paying three times a month.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You're gonna shit your pants. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You're gonna pay two times, twice to three times what your house costs, usually three times. That's insane.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You buy a $300,000 house, you're paying a million dollars for that thing.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Eventually paying that. So he has several businesses, including partial ownership in a title company. He also. His company was involved in building a Mesa county subdivision called Christa Lee, which one of his daughter's name is Christy. So he owns the mortgage company and caters to new homes and business owners.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's making money on every part of

[James Petregallo]

the transaction, every part Smart. Smart guy, yeah. Not using physics at all, but smart guy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

None.

[James Petregallo]

None. He was just interested in it, I guess. Everybody says, and this is a quote that everybody says about him, he's a genuinely good man.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's nice.

[James Petregallo]

Very kind guy. And people say, not, you know, he's a businessman. But he doesn't shit on people. That's not even that. They go, no, he's a good man. Which is hard for good people to make money, but he's doing it. So his son Alan said, my father was probably one of the best people I've ever met in my life. And I don't just say that because I'm his son. That's good, they said. He's very kind. He's very generous. So he builds a life. He and Sharon, Sharon Helmick, they build a life together for shit. They've known each other since 1959. We're going to catch up in 2003. So they have built a life. They've had everything going for them. They have a nice house, they have four kids and that they're grown by now, and they're enjoying the fruits of their labor here and everything like that. And then on New year's Eve of 2003, Sharon has a massive heart attack and dies.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Like what?

[James Petregallo]

Just drops dead. Unexpected. Completely out of the blue. Wasn't sick, just a nightmare. Has a heart attack and dies. So Alan is obviously crushed. This is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Yesterday he had a wife.

[James Petregallo]

He had a wife. Well, he's the one he's been with since he was 14. He's been with her for 50 years almost. And they're 10 minutes ago.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's amazing.

[James Petregallo]

Well, also, you plan shit. You're like, okay, we're gonna get this done, and then we have this, and we're gonna buy that for later and once the kids are out. And then you have this plan of how now it's my time and we're gonna live our life, and now your wife's dead and now you're alone.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Erase the whole plan.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's a total about Schmidt is what it is. Remember About Schmidt? Did you see that with Jack Nicholson? Great fucking movie. Comes home, he went out to get a medium blizzard from Dairy Queen. A medium Oreo blizzard, he says. And when he comes home, his wife's dead on the floor. He's just this, like. And they're like these plain Midwestern people. And his wife's dead on the floor. So he buys, like, an RV and goes and drives across the country and has all sorts of weir, weird Adventures. It's fucking hilarious.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jack Nicholson doing it.

[James Petregallo]

It's so fucking funny. It's from 2002. Ish. 2003. So anyway, she's dead, and this is horrible. And everybody said it absolutely destroyed Alan. He was not okay with this. Yeah. His son, Alan Jr. Said, I think that he died that day. A big part of him. He lost my mother, who he'd been with since he was 14. His love, his life. I'm sure that everything he thought that was real was ripped out from under him. Now you're lonely, too, and he's lonely now, and he lives in a rural house, and he's lonely. And, you know, this is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's no shame in any of that. It's all just part of life. But you feel like the whole rug has just been ripped out from under you because it's everything, you know? And then. Yeah, what am I. I'm gonna go get to know somebody else.

[James Petregallo]

And we don't expect. And this is the other thing, too. We don't expect women to drop dead.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

We expect women, they get sick and then they eventually die. Men drop dead. Massive stroke, massive heart attack. Drop. That's. I know. Women do, too, but in our brains.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It's more common for men to have massive heart attacks and die. So they call it a widowmaker. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's more common, too, that the man is super up about it for like 20 years, and then the woman just like, starts having brunches.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, they've been waiting for you to die for decades. That's why they've been annoyed with you for decades.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's having a white wine salmon salad at 11.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. With her girlfriends. Yeah. Who also have dead husbands. And everybody's fine and clinking glasses. Whereas the guy will be about Schmidt. He'll be Jack Nicholson, and he'll lose

[Jimmy Wisman]

his mind limp dick for the rest of his life. No interest in sex or emotional connection.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You long let the testosterone die out of your system. Basically you're like, well, I don't need that anymore. We're just hanging out. And now you're like, fuck, now what do I do?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, yeah, now you're gonna go ask somebody. What's your mom's name? Fuck that life.

[James Petregallo]

Well, luckily, at this age, my mom's name is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You can go read it on the screen.

[James Petregallo]

Cemetery. I'll show you her headstone over there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sound it out right there.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Mother in laws aren't really a concern at this stage in your life. And when you're in your 60s, which is helpful.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You'd ask somebody, what's your favorite color? You know what I mean? I guess that's such. It seems it's just small talk. At fucking 65. Fuck that.

[James Petregallo]

At 65, it should just be, how do you want to die? In what way? Are you looking to die? Yeah. Are you looking to die on a hillside or by the ocean? How are you looking to die? Where are you looking to die? How are you looking to spend your last days?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. What if you get a terminal illness? Should we murder, suicide? Is that what we're doing?

[James Petregallo]

Is that what we're doing? I think that's something you have to figure out at some point. So he's 60, he's single for the first time since he was in eighth grade.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

He has no idea how to date or. No, he's never dated.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

What's he going to say? You want to go to the drive in movie with me this weekend? Like, want to go to the sock hop? Like, that's the last time he asked a girl out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It was, I just typed malt shop into can't find a one. They don't exist.

[James Petregallo]

Can't find a one right now. It's crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So,

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. I'll try sock hops. Fuck it. Maybe nothing there either. So he didn't know what to do. So at one point he decided, I'll go on a cruise.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And a ton of these old guys do this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, they love it because you can

[James Petregallo]

meet people on a cruise. Everybody's had a few drinks in them. You're on a boat, so you can meet somebody over a few days and talk to them. And everybody's kind of lubricated and comfortable and. And, you know, I mean,

[Jimmy Wisman]

verbally and socially. Yeah. But.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, not particular. Sort of. Yeah. So he wants to meet some people, get back out there and just do this. Now he thought about it and he goes, okay, I want to go on this cruise. Well, what am I going to do? Just sit there like an old lump? He said, no, I got to be able to get out there. He goes, maybe, like, I can dance. He goes, maybe I'll try to dance. He goes, if I go on the ship and dance, then I'll meet people. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Is he gonna go fret Astaire?

[James Petregallo]

Well, he wants to. He wants to. Like, maybe if I. When he says, I don't remember how to dance because I haven't danced since the 60s, he's gonna get lessons because no married man will dance.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Don't trust a married man that's still dancing. He's up to something, I'll tell you that right now. That dance at your wedding should be your last dance if you're a man.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Your last dance till your next wedding.

[James Petregallo]

Til your next wedding. Or until your daughter gets married or some shit. One of the two.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Or your divorce.

[James Petregallo]

Or your divorce. And then that's just. That's just a jig, though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's just the twist.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's just one of these. A real dork might get the sprinkler involved in it. You never know. But that's so he doesn't know what to do. So he says, if I go on this ship and I haven't danced in fucking 50 years, essentially 40 years, I'm going to embarrass myself and these ladies are going to be like, look at this old dork.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't think it's adorable. But yeah, I see what he's doing.

[James Petregallo]

He wants to be confident. So, yeah, he signs up for ballroom dancing lessons.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Nice move.

[James Petregallo]

He's really got a high idea of what this ship's going to have for him here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I've been getting those in my email lately.

[James Petregallo]

Really? Yeah, I think it's just. You hit 45, I think.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I think so.

[James Petregallo]

I think that maybe his wife is

[Jimmy Wisman]

linked with the Fred Astaire studio.

[James Petregallo]

He might have a dead wife, we don't know. Send him these. He's gonna need him so early 2005. So this is, you know, he waits a year and change. Gives her a year, which I think he grieves for a year. And then he says, okay, I'm gonna do this. So he takes a dance lesson, ballroom dancing, and he likes his teacher. So he doesn't even get to the point of using this to find a woman. He just likes the woman who showed him it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You'll do you'?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he didn't get to. I'll dance with a few people.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll go on the boat.

[James Petregallo]

He's like, perfect, you move well. You do. Now, this is Miriam Francis Morgan is what she's born at this point. She's Miriam Giles. G I L E S. So she's born January 26, 1957, so about 12 years younger than him. So she's 48 at this point and looks good. And he's like, I like her. You know, this is nice. And he's an older guy and he's got some money and he's a sweetheart and a charming guy. So he goes, maybe I got a shot Here. What the hell? So she's a ballroom dance instructor, and everybody that describes her describes her as a ball of fire. That's how they describe her. Lots of energy, bright, warm, fun, and, you know, just. And at the same time, they get talking, they start dancing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And he says, well, lost my wife and I want to go on a cruise. I want to learn how to dance. And she goes, that's crazy. My husband's dead too. I'm a widow also.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

So they have this shared grief of having a dead spouse, and that really gets them to talking, and that can certainly do it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Trauma bonds to a certain extent. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

It'll get you in the front door.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You know, then you have to have shit in common.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But if you keep saying, well, my. My husband fucking eight years into this, look, that's me.

[James Petregallo]

Now, we're just a relationship because both of us have the same strife. That's all it is. That's not really a great relationship at that point. But no, they get past that and they start talking. Now her dead husband is Jack Giles, which sounds like a cool guy. Jack Giles, sure. The fuck doesn't it sound cool? Now she's also had even more tragedy, as we'll find out. Her daughter Amy, who was 21 at the time, died in 2000 as well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

From an accidental overdose. Fuck. Now, everyone in the family insisted she never used drugs, but she died of an overdose, which she was a real kind of go getter and a real spark plug and things like that. So those people sometimes do drugs and don't tell you about it?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, they use it as a tool, not necessarily as a crutch.

[James Petregallo]

Your aunt not knowing you did drugs doesn't mean anything. They don't know what the hell's going on. But now Miriam had gotten a life insurance payout for her daughter's death as well, of $100,000. It kind of helped her have some cushion here. Now, her life, basically, in 1976, is when she met Jack Giles. Jack Callaway Giles. He was working at a grocery store and was going to school at the time. And they got married about a year later and they settled in Jacksonville, Florida, and Jack became a chemical engineer.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So he made good money. Smart, consistent.

[Jimmy Wisman]

In Jacksonville, a chemical engineer is just a meth cooker.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that means they ride around on their bike at two in the morning with a backpack on and a jar cooking up. So his brother described them thusly, quote, they weren't rich, but pretty well off. Nice House with a boat, a couple of cars. That's all you need. What else do you need?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sounds rich to me.

[James Petregallo]

Sounds great to me. Yeah. Tim Giles, that's his brother who said that. And they have a daughter named Amy, and they have a son as well. They live in a nice cushy home in Florida and go out on the boat and seem to have a great life. Now, Amy was 23. I apologize. When she died, the daughter and the official cause of death is an accidental drug overdose. But the people who knew Amy, he said she didn't use drugs like I said. But her uncle called her a beauty queen and a workaholic. Workaholics sometimes use drugs, so you never know. He said flatly, she never took drugs ever. And that's what Wendy later on, who is Alan's daughter, talked about, kind of stuff like that as well. They say that she's not sure because Miriam told her several different ways that her daughter died. Amy. So she said. To this day, I still don't know what she died from. Amy was Jack's angel, the beauty queen, the workaholic. She never took drugs. That's what her Uncle Tim said.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Neither did Aunt Diane.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. That's what I mean. You don't know what people are doing ever. But Miriam had an insurance policy on her as well, which is odd. For $100,000. When it pays out, Miriam basically blows the money. Oh, she bought a car, she bought clothes. She bought like that with it.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Which. Yeah. I don't know what you're supposed to do with it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, sometimes that. Sometimes you buy things to replace the person, too. So then you look at that. That car and you think about your daughter.

[James Petregallo]

I was thinking, too, would you. Would it be a thing that you'd want to get rid of that money, basically? Because.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Just sitting in your account means she's just still there. Yeah. I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Like, there's probably a lot of. Of psychological that goes with that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, there's a lot. I've never gotten a diamond insurance for anything, so I don't know. I've never worked.

[Jimmy Wisman]

My dad died. I got a $2,800 motorcycle that you gave him.

[James Petregallo]

You bought that? That's not. You didn't get that. You bought it. You just got it back. Oh, I was like. You just loaned it to him essentially until he died. Then that's how it works.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I bought him a trike because he couldn't get his leg over the other one. I was like, sell the other one and Just have this bike now and then he never sold it. Then he died. And now I've got this fucking piece of shit sitting in my garage that I'll never touch. I'm gonna have it forever because it was his. It's the only. The only fucking thing this man saw through to the end. Because he didn't raise kids, that's for sure. Bought a motorcycle, paid it off and hung onto it for 25 years.

[James Petregallo]

And now it's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now I've got it. Great garage for the dead battery.

[James Petregallo]

You traded it for the. Yeah, for the trike, basically. Oh, man. So Amy's death, though, ruled an accident. An accidental overdose. And that happens now? April 15, 2002. Little over a year later.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

In Jacksonville. Jack dies as well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fuck.

[James Petregallo]

This is a suicide, though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Oh. And if your daughter's dead.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, yeah, she's an angel.

[James Petregallo]

That could be. Everybody said she was his everything. Gunshot to the head while in bed beside his wife.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Stop it.

[James Petregallo]

Which is a crazy thing to do if you're gonna shoot yourself. You're gonna go out, go away, sit under a tree or some shit. Right. Go to a cheap motel.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. While in bed. Meaning she woke up to that.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, she woke up to that. Luckily for her, he had apparently put a pillow as a barrier in between them so she didn't get brain on her. That's nice of him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Those are generally bulletproof too.

[James Petregallo]

Well, yeah, those. It'll go through your head, but the down really stuffs it up. The feathers. It's a tough one.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That would be a horrible way to wake up. The noise and then the splash. And like, now I'm wet too.

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck? Apparently she wasn't really. Now the responding officer and the officer in charge of this case is a man named JP Morgan. I shit you not nice. Who is Miriam's brother? Half brother, but brother.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

You know. Yeah. There's still blood. And he's the guy ruling on this whole thing now. That's pretty interesting. The problem is, I guess Jack is left handed. The wound, though, is on the right side of his head.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Which is interesting. But it's still open and shut. No foul play, but there's still problems. Left handed and people said very left handed, like didn't do shit with his right hand. But the gun was found.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sometimes you throw a baseball with the right.

[James Petregallo]

Sometimes you're doing something. But they said the gun was found on his chest in his right hand with his thumb on the trigger. So that's how it worked. And there's the pillow As a barrier to protect Miriam from spatter as well. And also there's another hundred thousand dollar policy on him that Miriam collects as well. And everybody said she blew by that real fast, that $100,000. She's not good with money, Miriam, which a lot of people aren't.

[Jimmy Wisman]

At least insurance money. She is terrible. No.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Remember Tim, Jack's brother, the uncle of Amy who kept saying she didn't do drugs?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He never believed it was a suicide.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Never?

[Jimmy Wisman]

That guy doesn't believe shit.

[James Petregallo]

No, not a goddamn thing. He said that he'd never for one second believe his brother killed himself. And his reasoning was that Jack, of all people, knows exactly what a suicide does to a family because Amy died. Now, this is the same guy who says that Amy didn't accidentally overdose, but now when it's convenient, he overdose.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's very. Jacksonville.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, exactly. So Tim was not interviewed, by the way, by Jacksonville authorities in the wake of the death, which is weird. You'd think they'd interview everybody. Hey, has your brother been sad? And this Tim, I mean, honestly, we're making jokes, but I feel bad for the guy because he's just lost his brother and his niece and he feels fucking terrible. He's grief stricken. And of course he doesn't want to believe that they have caused their own deaths. And I mean, nobody wants to believe that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. And sometimes suicide oftentimes too. You don't fucking just outwardly project what's going on because you don't want to worry anybody. So sometimes, the last day of your life, you smile your fucking balls off.

[James Petregallo]

Especially a guy from that generation.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They don't, you know, they don't think they're. They're not real, Let me tell you about my feelings type of shit. You know what I mean? That's just not how they are. They're more like, well, that's enough of that. Gonna blow my brains out. Now in the garage.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's an incredibly powerful commercial for mental health in England that it shows two guys at a soccer game. There's this dude that's just moping his fucking ass off all the goddamn time. And this guy's like cheering constantly. So he's like.

[James Petregallo]

Someone's like, you pissy, isn't it?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, have another. Have another point, you pussy.

[James Petregallo]

Have another point or whatever.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But then the last scene is like the. The. The mopey fucker is draping his. His little footy scarf of his buddy over the chair next to him.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, boy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And now he's extra sad because his happy friend took his own life. That's. That's what it is sometimes. Like the happiest motherfucker.

[James Petregallo]

You don't know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's not doing great internally.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

No.

[James Petregallo]

What Tim is feeling is normal, logically.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Losing somebody that is so important to you. And when you don't see them being that sad all the time, because we boil depression down to sad because that's. I mean, it's an emotion that. But seeing somebody that's so important to you as somebody that's so down to kill themselves sometimes that's just so out of bounds. You just gather that your brain doesn't make any sense.

[James Petregallo]

You process it. Yeah. And I don't know, by the way too, I've heard somebody said from a few weeks ago that I don't know anything about grief because I said that someone needs to move on with their life. And it's like, fuck you. Look, man, tell me that. Tell me about grief, motherfucker. I don't care.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Useless piece of shit. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

What are you talking about? I lost like, my two best friends who were young, within a year and a half of each other in tragic ways like I haven't seen. I've had plenty. Fuck you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sometimes tragic shit like that hardens your heart to the world. And you don't wanna. You know what I mean? Sometimes you just gotta go, well, what, am I gonna fucking sit here and not pay my bills?

[James Petregallo]

Thank you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got shit to do.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Because it's enough already. And that's what it is. If you gain enough grief, it's not a shock to you anymore and you react to it differently. And I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just saying don't judge my grief.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's just what it is.

[James Petregallo]

Just judge how I fucking.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, everybody grieves different too. That'. That's a common thing that people say, but it's true that. Look, man, I'm gonna. My advice to you when you're grieving is gonna be calm the fuck down. Tomorrow's another day too, you know, you gotta get through it. You gotta get through this. Are you gonna fucking melt into a ball in the corner? What's wrong with you?

[James Petregallo]

No, but I did weird shit in that. During that period, I was. I had a fucking career. Like, I made movies. I had a thing. I won festivals. I had like, actually, like some heat thing and I directed and I just. I shut it all. I didn't do anything. I said, I'm not doing this anymore, basically. And I went and Started serving fucking papers. I did that for like three years. And then I said to like 2012, I was like, what am I doing? This is a miserable fucking life. And I'm making myself miserable because I was miserable, because those people were involved in the things I was doing with me. And then I was like, I gotta go do comedy again. I have to do it. So then I went to comedy and then I met you. And here we are.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Life just happens sometimes.

[James Petregallo]

That's how it happened. I wouldn't be here if those things didn't happen. I really wouldn't. Because I would have been making films and not doing comedy. And it would have been a totally different path and just different.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And the way we react to things sometimes creates. One door closes, another opens.

[James Petregallo]

That's it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

These old cliches, they sometimes. Fucking right on the nose. Goddammit.

[James Petregallo]

Don't worry, when God makes your knee hurt, he kicks you in the ass. You know that old.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's it, figure it out.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you how to get the bets. The best meats, the best everything delivered right to your door with good chop.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Goodchop.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

You go to the grocery store, you look around for meat and fish and everything like that. It's a pretty, it's not a confidence inducing thing. No, it's not great. And you don't even know where any of that stuff came from. You don't know who handled it, who put it there. It's just sitting there on a shelf. You have no idea. So you don't need to do that. You gotta take all this mystery out of this and know exactly where your meat comes from with Good Chop. It's so good. Every Good Chop product comes from American farms and fisheries. Not most of it, all of it. From the beef to the seafood to the chicken, Good Chop is a fully customizable meat and seafood delivery service. Everything is vacuum sealed, flash frozen at peak freshness and shipped straight to your door. Pick your plan, choose from over 100 cuts and save up to 70% on premium proteins. Good Chop has over 3,000 verified five star reviews from customers who keep coming back for the quality and value. And every order is backed by a 100% money back guarantee. I love Good Chop. First of all, I love knowing that I'm when it's coming. I have this, here comes the good chop and then I have it all. And I like having it in my freezer so I can have it whenever I want. And let's be realistic the quality is just amazing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's amazing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the steaks are great. I like the New York strip. That's my favorite. Those big fat scallops that they have are delicious. The seafood's incredible. I have not had a bad thing from good chop. They have been good chop for me. Excellent all around. And I absolutely love this product. This is great. If you like meat and seafood and you like quality meat and seafood and you like knowing what you're getting and knowing the quality you're getting, good chop is for you. You should definitely get it. Here's how to do that. Go to goodchop.com podcast and use the code 50smalltown murder to get $50 off plus free shipping on your first order. That's $50 off plus free shipping at goodchop.com podcast code 50small town murder.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about the best way to do your banking. Banking made for you with chime chime.com Absolutely. Chime changes the way people bank. They're doing it right now. They offer the most rewarding fee. Free banking fee. Free banking built for you, everybody. That's, that's what they have. This is not like your traditional old bank that charges you overdraft and monthly fees. And that's a dead model. You don't need to do that anymore. People. There's plenty of places. Well, there's. Chime is where you need to go, really. They have thousands of fee free ATMs. Why pay to get your own money? It's your money and they're using it. So why are you paying to get it out? That's crazy. It's built for you. Not the 1%. That's the thing is a bank that cares about you, the regular person. Chime members can benefit from up to $1,150 in annual rewards fee. Free direct deposit unlocks the most rewarding way to bank at Chime. Chime is rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. That's because they have real humans 24 7. None of this AI garbage that you're going to have to deal with because you don't want to deal with that. When you're dealing with money, you want someone who knows what they're talking about. You're not just switching banks. You're upgrading to America's number one choice for banking. With a chime checking account. Get 5% cash back on Chime card in a category of your choice like gas or groceries. You can get savings that grows faster with 3.75 APY. That's nine times higher than the national average. Plus you get premium travel perks like airport lounge access and 24.7Travel Concierge included in your chunk. You can even get $500 of your pay when you do it with my pay. It's great. They also have Spotme which lets you overdraft up to $200. Again, fee free. And that's the important thing to keep talking about, fee free. This is a better way to do it. We're not letting people charge us to go to ATMs anymore. You got to get Chime like we did. Don't be silly. Don't waste money. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com smalltown murder that's chime.com smalltown murder it only takes a few minutes to sign up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[James Petregallo]

There are people you are told to trust. Lawyers, teachers, especially doctors. But what happens when you put your life in someone's hands and they betray you? The hit podcast Dr. Death is back and this season is unlike any other. Dr. Death the Cowboy is the story of a charming neurosurgeon who rode into Western Town selling a Persona of confidence and care. He wore cowboy boots in the operating room and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them. Instead, he left a trail of broken bodies. This season is about a doctor who was never truly held accountable for the patients whose lives he ruined. A story of greed, betrayal and a fight for justice that will leave you questioning who to trust. Listen to Dr. The Cowboy wherever you get podcasts or binge the entire series right now only with audible so anyway, Tim the brother said that Jack couldn't tie his shoes with his right hand, which no one can tie their shoes with one hand. That's the Everybody requires two hands to tie shoes is the thing. Which is a very strange I'm very right handed, James.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If I tried to tie a shoe

[James Petregallo]

with that hand just that hand I'm

[Jimmy Wisman]

walking around with untied shoes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, no shit. A lot. Now Jack and Miriam's son, who was home the night this happened, has a different thing. He believes that his dad did shoot himself and did shoot himself with his right hand as well. He said that Jack had broken a few years ago. He said Jack might have been very left handed before, but Jack broke his left arm a few years ago and had to wear a cast for a long time and could do nothing with his left hand. So he learned to do everything with his right hand. He goes was very ambidextrous. By the end of it, he would write with his right hand. Sometimes just because it was convenient. He said the right handed suicide, definitely not impossible. And the son said he heard the shot and he heard his mother come running out of the house screaming and said that's how it happened. What are we talking about? So 2004, Miriam persists. She's having problems. Now she's single and she's not doing well financially. She gets busted in Florida for a counterfeit check cashing scheme that she's doing, which is not great, obviously. She had an aka. Even her alias was Francesa Giles. Francesa, Francesa. She's like, I'll be Italian now. Why not? So she was found not guilty of two counts of embezzlement and one count of larceny in Florida in 2004. But she was arrested at various points for basically forging checks, other people's checks, stealing checks. There was also allegations of theft from two of her employers and her own father for doing it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's not writing bad checks, she's writing good checks. Citing somebody else's name and then writing it to herself.

[James Petregallo]

That's pretty much it. She moved in with her elderly dad after Jack died and her stepmother. And they were in poor health, apparently. And while she's under their roof, she stole more than $80,000 from them.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So she would intercept the mail every day when the mail would come. She's the most spry of the group, so she'd rush outside and grab it before her father could see it. And anytime there was a bank statement, she'd pocket it. And he never saw the bank statement, so he would never see his money dropping.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, because any elderly guy in 2005 isn't doing online banking. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

No. You're gonna trust your daughter?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's why she's there, take care of you, to help you're not in good health. The day she Packed up and left her father's house. Someone set a fire on the back porch of their house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

The day she left, the porch backs up against her father and stepmother's bedroom. They got out. They were asleep when it started, but they got out. And the house didn't burn completely down or anything like that. And Miriam's father contacted police and said, my daughter tried to burn my fucking house down. When she left. She's stolen from me, blah, blah, blah. But the state's attorney dropped the charges because they told him basically that prosecuting a case of a daughter and her father, it's difficult, and I don't want to get into it. But basically what he's saying is, you're going to fucking soften up halfway through this and say, I'm not going to testify against my daughter. I don't want my daughter going to jail. And then, where are we now so I'm not wasting the time, essentially. So that was that. After that, Miriam ended up in Gulfport, Mississippi.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it sounds hot and sticky. It's gross. Yeah, it sounds like it. So somewhere in here, this is when she started saying she was a dancer and became a dance instructor. Oh, I don't know where she learned how to dance. I'm not sure how that happened, but she did.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A girl from Jacksonville went to the Gulf Shores and then became a ballroom dancer. A ballroom dance. If you told me a girl from. Wrong dancer.

[James Petregallo]

Wrong dancer, yeah. She went to Gulfport. She was dancing. That sounds right. Yeah. So, yeah, she turns up in Gulfport, and the owner of a studio called Amor Danzar named Barb Watts. Hey, Barb. It's Barb. Barb said, I thought she was dynamite. She was the greatest thing that ever came by. We put her right to work.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She can shake.

[James Petregallo]

Shake that ass. Shake that ass. Miriam.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And then a girl from Jacksonville moved through the Gold Shores, and the manager of the dance club said, we put her right to work.

[James Petregallo]

We put her right to work. We didn't even make her audition. I looked at her cans. I said, you're going on stage, sweetheart. You were born for this. Let's go.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Threw her tassels and off to work she went.

[James Petregallo]

And then she said, what should my stage name be? And they're like, no, no. Miriam. Just make it sound like somebody's grandma, you know? Yeah. Miriam is a very old lady name.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Miriam's like, you have to be over 80 to be named Miriam. I feel like I had two of

[Jimmy Wisman]

them in my fucking high school.

[James Petregallo]

Miriam.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Spanish girls I had a lot of Francescas, but not a lot of Miriams.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Not really, no.

[James Petregallo]

No Miriams, but tons of Francescas you met.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow, I've never met a Francesca.

[James Petregallo]

Well, Was your school 65% Italian? Probably not exactly. A little different. You're not gonna get the Francescas. I know like 46 people named Vinnie, some of which I'm not even related to. It's amazing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I think all my Myriam friends had dogs named Vinny. Nobody. I never met a. Never met a Vinny or a Vincent. Never.

[James Petregallo]

Weird. Wow. That's crazy. Fuck. I have like seven uncles named Vinny, never mind who I knew around here. So basically they came to suspect her of stealing money from everywhere. Basically. And from this business. Even Barb started thinking she's skimming from the dance studio.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So apparently a checkbook went missing and a check got written that didn't make any sense. And the owner figured it could have only been Miriam, essentially. So rather than fire her. This is crazy. They couldn't have really thought it was her that much because they send her out to Colorado where they're opening another studio in Grand Junction. They send her there to train the staff. So you gotta trust someone pretty well to send them 2,000 miles away to open a business for you that you've put up.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, I'm in charge of all my money there.

[James Petregallo]

That's what I mean. That's crazy. And Miriam requested it because I guess she heard they were open and she said, I'd love to get out of here. Send me to Colorado. They said, well, you're the perfect person. Why not? So she ends up in early 2005 as a dance teacher in Colorado in a newly set up shop, meeting a guy named Alan Helmick.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How about this?

[James Petregallo]

Hanging out. Yeah. So everybody said on the floor, she is a badass dancer, knows what she's doing. And they said that they got along right away. Miriam and Alan, they lost a spouse together. They liked to dance, they understood everything. And that's how it is. A psychologist later will say he was obviously desperate to be happy again, desperate to have a wife, desperate to be in love, and was willing to do anything to make her happy. Yeah, you want to. After a while you go, okay, I need to have someone else sitting in that other chair with me because this is boring.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So that heartbreak feeling is fucking miserable. Especially if there's like, sometimes there's an option to rekindle it and then you've got, like this hope, but there's none here.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. This is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is tragedy. It's over.

[James Petregallo]

It's over. I mean, you can't get more over than a heart attack. That's a hard. Yeah, hard ball right there. Done.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Not. Not fixed in this one.

[James Petregallo]

No. Barb Watts, the owner, said, quote, she was after a hot sugar daddy. She wanted someone to take care of her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Barb said that she was basically didn't trust Miriam to the point where she faxed information about her issues with Miriam to Alan and advised her. Him to stay away from her. Like you shouldn't trust her, she said. I asked him to watch his bank account. I told him to be careful, but he was so much in love.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, that's crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Boss, send him a fax.

[James Petregallo]

A fax. Like, listen, she dances like a fucking angel, but she will rob you blind. Let me tell you something.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Salsa. Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Jitterbug or whatever they call that, all that shit. I don't know what they're doing. Tangoing all over the place.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Keep your wallet in your pants, sir.

[James Petregallo]

Keep your wallet in your front pocket, as Raekwon would say. So now he's getting his groove back. Like Stella, basically. Here. This is how my man, how Alan got his groove back here. So Penny Lyons, who's a fellow dance student and one of Miriam's close friends in Colorado, said that Alan was like a knight in shining armor and for her, someone to help her and take care of her, and Miriam gave him this spark back. He didn't look depressed anymore. He looked. He looked like he had a reason to get up in the morning. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

12 years younger with a fucking pert ass.

[James Petregallo]

Come on, a dance instructor, you know, she's in good shape. Totally. So they start dating, which, by the way, they were not supposed to do, which is hilarious.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You can't do that.

[James Petregallo]

Well, it's not school for Christ. It's not a real school, but ethics.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's weird.

[James Petregallo]

If it was a guy, I feel like it. But if it's a guy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But I just mean like some nice

[James Petregallo]

guy she met, I don't feel like business.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ethically, who gives a fuck? They're people and they're adults, so who cares? But. But business, ethically. Barb's pissed about this because if they break up, he doesn't want to come back. Around $30 a month, you asshole.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I know. That's true. That's true. But you're not going to stop people from fucking if they've been dancing. It's just.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, it is fucking hot.

[James Petregallo]

It's the dumbest fucking thing ever. It's not hot.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, like, if you're interested in it and you're grinding on somebody, it's fucking hot.

[James Petregallo]

Well, if you're grinding on them, that's a different studio.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, any dance is grinding.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's a whole other thing. Thing. It's like, well, what are we even doing? Why aren't we just fucking? Why are we dancing? Why are we doing this weird ritual? That's what it feels like. Some animalistic ritual. Like the peacock puts its feathers out and walks around. I'm not doing that. I'm not participating in your stupid fucking ritual. Fuck you. I'm not a fucking animal. We're smarter than the animals. God damn it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Waltz and rub your pussy on my thigh.

[James Petregallo]

That's better. So anyway, they start dating. There was a clause in Miriam's contract. And also because, Alan, the signup contract even says that you won't try to fuck the instructors.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That seems like what it should be in the contract because you gotta assume there's anybody. There's gotta be at least 20% of the people that get involved in this think that there's sex happening or at least an opportunity. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Well, I assume, I guess it's theirs for you to meet the other people in the class, not the instructor. Like that would make sense.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But the instructor's the fucking hottest one here. That's the one that does this shit all the time.

[James Petregallo]

At least knows how to do it. So that's why she has to sign a contract. I guess. She won't do this. So, June of 2006, they get married.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

There's more money in marrying a guy with money in businesses and houses than working as a dance instructor for this broad. So after the wedding, they move into a huge secluded home, which we'll talk about. That's the home that he was found dead in. In the countryside, in Whitewater. 40 acres. Panoramic views of the mountains off the front porch. You're 40 acres, so there's no neighbors anywhere near you. They built a small horse operation on the land because Miriam loved horses and she wanted to give riding lessons.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why does she know how to do everything?

[James Petregallo]

I don't know how she knows how to dance and ride horses and not

[Jimmy Wisman]

just know she can teach it.

[James Petregallo]

She used to instruct others, which is weird.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fuck is that?

[James Petregallo]

Imagine, like, anything you know how to do. Sort of. You need to instruct others now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Show everybody how to do. I barely know how to do fucking anything.

[James Petregallo]

No. So Alan bankrolls this business for her and another business. This is the horse breeding and lessons operation, Creek Ranch Sport Horses, llc.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And the other one is a ballroom dance studio called Dance Junction llc.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's doing both.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, he's gonna bankroll these. Now his accountant, like his hair burst into flames. It was like, why are you opening. What else are you gonna open? A sports bar like any other money pits.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Businesses. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

No, no. But not two businesses. If you open two businesses, businesses that could make money. It's one thing. These are the two. You might as well just set your money on fire. A ballroom dance studio and a horse operation. No one's making money off of that. You're just not.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, the overhead already is crazy.

[James Petregallo]

It's insane. And that's what they said. They're like, what the fuck are you doing? And there's already another ballroom dance company there, so the company should work for. With another ballroom in a small area.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How many in fucking Grand Junction or fucking wherever that's so small.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. How many ballroom dance students you think you can procure from this small area? Probably not enough to keep two businesses going. And then this horse thing, basically, these are the two dumbest business moves you could make other than a sports bar with your name on it or something. That would be even dumb.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The horse thing can be a thing, but all those people up there probably have their own fucking horse.

[James Petregallo]

It's not enough to sustain. How much are horse lessons? Yeah, you would have to be doing 24 hours a day with 30 kids in there to make the money back. You know how much it is to just house horses? Well, you gotta have insanely expensive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's the part. The boarding, the purchasing of a horse,

[James Petregallo]

caring for a horse trainer, which is another fucking. She has to have a trainer for the horse. So this is. You're not making that in some kids lessons unless you charge $180 a lesson, which would be prohibitive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

10, 15 horses that are all rideable because there's. There's so many horses that you can own. You put your ass on that fucking thing, it's gonna put your ass on the fucking ground.

[James Petregallo]

So they're. They're basically now the pro. On paper, though, Allen owns 95% of the businesses. Okay, so doesn't just give them to her. Miriam owns 5% in each business.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Just so she's there on paper. So he essentially. Basically owns anything. And if Alan ever divorces her or died and left it to the kids, basically Miriam walks away with her 5% operation. 5% of two companies that don't make money that make nothing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This is just. He's placating her and wanting her to be happy, so he's doing these businesses for her. But I'm sure in his mind, if he goes, man, if we break even, I'm gonna be thrilled.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. And that facts resonated. Cause he's safeguarding himself.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Well, I think, too, he's just. He's a smart guy in his 60s who's made some money, and he knows to try to watch out. They also have a prenup. Now, this says, in the event of Alan's death, Miriam gets nothing that Alan owned before the marriage. So nothing. Absolutely nothing. And he'd only been married to her for two years. So basically everything he had came from before the marriage. His mortgage company, his investments, real estate. He's got a few million bucks in assets, and she can get none of it, basically. So the major policies were structured so that the payout would go to his business partners to buy out his share of the businesses. Not for Miriam. Not to Miriam. Now, 2007 into 2008, Alan's kids and family start to notice that he's kind of disappearing, not really participating. Can't get him on the phone. They don't see him very often. They would call the house, and Miriam would say that dad isn't feeling well, and he'll call you back. And then he would never call you back. So they were like, that's weird. Then they'd call his cell phone, and Miriam would answer that too, and say he's not feeling well. No. So they were like, this is really weird here. His one daughter said that they saw him less and rarely without Miriam. She said that she repeatedly called her father's cell phone. Most of the calls went straight to voicemail. And she regularly would have to call Miriam to get messages to her father. Basically, now, while the family's trying to get ahold of him, the bank is also trying to get ahold of him. Oh, they need to talk to him about a pretty urgent matter, but can't get him on the phone. They kept getting his voicemail. They called his daughter and said, can you get ahold of him? If the bank's calling people, you know, going, hey, you know where this guy's at?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, the bank's calling my son.

[James Petregallo]

The bank's kind of problematic. A gangster, loan shark, you are really missing. So they said, we called and got the voicemail. We can't do anything. So eventually, the bank gave up on phoning him and just started sending letters of what they wanted. Miriam would keep Allen's cell phone in her purse, so she'd have both their phones. One of the daughters said she never really developed a close relationship with Miriam. And she said that necessarily wasn't Miriam's fault, though.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

They asked her, was it hard to accept Miriam into your dad's life? And she said it would have been hard to accept anybody. My mom was gone, and now I don't care about this new fucking lady coming in here who cares about her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The way I see it, any woman that comes in after my mom's dead is gonna be temporary. There's no way this is lasting.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. And I think that's how you would feel, too. And also, he's pretty sick, too, but he hasn't really let on. But Alan's got some health problems. He's got. Got some heart issues that haven't really been addressed. And he's got some problems as we'll talk about health wise, but he's still up and around. But she says that he doesn't feel good and all that kind of thing, which he still does everything that he needs to do. Early 2008. Okay, this is interesting here. Miriam calls a life insurance agent and asks about taking out a policy on Allen's life.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How big we talking?

[James Petregallo]

Well, she asks, can I get $2 million? Dang, that's a pretty healthy life insurance. The agent said, the most I can give you is $250,000. How's that? He's in the 60s. We expect him to croak pretty soon here at some point.

[Jimmy Wisman]

15% of that. How's that sound?

[James Petregallo]

How's that sound? But then she said, well, that's fine, but can I set it up without him knowing about it?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

And he said, no, absolutely not. You can't. You can't take out a life insurance policy on an adult without that adult's consent. You have to demonstrate an insurable interest. And the agent said, no, and the policy never happened.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay. Is that law still? That should be a law, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

I don't think you can just take out an insurance policy on an adult.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I think somebody did that with, like, homeless people. And then I think that's an old story, that somebody did that and then killed them all and then got in trouble.

[James Petregallo]

Geraldine Parrish in Baltimore, if you look that up. It was in the homicide book. I've talked about it. She did it for dozens and dozens of. I don't know how many people this woman killed. Dozens. I mean, like six husbands. She bury them in her Backyard babies. No, dude, it's insane. It's fucking crazy. So anyway, yeah, if you look that up, I want to do a bonus episode on that because that's wild. So late April 2008, the Helmix rent a movie via the Dish Network there. So they got a satellite dish as you would need, out in the middle of nowhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Remember when you had to do that? Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So they rent no country for Old Men.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I've heard that's good.

[James Petregallo]

Which. Yeah, and it just had. The Oscars were just the month before and it won a shitload of Oscars and all that. Now there's a scene in that movie, by the way, where one of the characters and stuffs a thing into a gas tank and lights it and then walks away while the car explodes. That's a thing. Okay, keep that in mind. April 30, 2008. So this is about a week later, maybe not even a week. They're in Delta, Colorado, where Alan is born and raised there. Now, Alan and Miriam drove to Delta on business. Alan was selling off a portion of his title company and at the meeting was handed a check for $100,000, which is his share of the sale. So he's got that. He gets into his 1994 Buick Roadmaster.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fuck yeah.

[James Petregallo]

With $100,000 check in his pocket. See, that's what I mean. He's a very practical man. He has a lot of money, but he drives a 14 year old car, right?

[Jimmy Wisman]

14 year old Buick, Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He doesn't need anything. He's not trying to show he's. He's fancy. He's just.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, he's very steady, very wealthy man. Would be in a Cadillac or.

[James Petregallo]

That's the way. Yeah, Mercedes or some shit. Yeah, but he just said a Buick and I bought it 14 years ago. It's still running, so why get rid of it? So Miriam that day keeps having recurring stomach problems. Just shitting like crazy liquid shits like you wouldn't believe. Farting up the Roadmaster, which is absolutely terrible. Yeah, you don't want to fart up the road, man. Just stinking up the Roadmaster, shitting up the velour seats there. You don't want that when you fart into that velour.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That'll stick for a week.

[James Petregallo]

Every time someone else sits in it, it just releases it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It releases my fart going down the road. If you do it again.

[James Petregallo]

No, it's just you should have went with the leather interior, you cheap fuck. That's all I'm trying to tell you. Had to get the velour. Nice. So she's got problems. She has to use the bathroom. She uses the bathroom. Then a little while later, she has to go again. Now, at some point here from the parking lot, they came out. He's got the check, and they're going to leave. But she goes to the trunk of the car. She says to change her shoes before she goes to shit again. Apparently. Now, Alan, sitting in the car, glances in the rear view mirror and sees smoke coming up and sees that his car is on fire. The back of his car is on fire. So he gets out fast and yells at Miriam to grab water or a fire extinguisher or whatever they have. And they put the fire out. It's not that bad. The trunk area is a little bubbly, like the cheese of a good pizza. And the rear tail lights kind of fucked up, I guess. Melted a bit. But the car's not destroyed. The Roadmaster will live to see another day.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Tough car.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. They also find a wooden wick, basically jammed into the gas tank of the car.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, God.

[James Petregallo]

That's what was on fire. Okay. So they call the police when they see this isn't an accident. Someone tried to set our gas tank on fire. This is a problem. So the Delta police sergeant who comes, we'll hear from him all through the story. Sean Wells here thought that Miriam's behavior was super strange. Real evasive and all sorts of shit, Right. She didn't want to talk to him. And when he started really asking her specific questions, she said, I need to use the bathroom, and just walked away in the parking lot. Now there's a restroom right there. Instead, she walks across four lanes of traffic to use a bathroom across the street.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm going over there.

[James Petregallo]

I already fucked this bathroom up. I mean, I leveled that shit. Unless there's been a cleaner in there,

[Jimmy Wisman]

I don't want traffic to muffle these sounds.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm going to be farting all the way across fucking Main street over here. So she did this, and she wouldn't come back until after the officer had left. Okay. Now, the investigators later went into the first bathroom she went in that she shit up to begin with. And they found it to be reeking of lighter fluid. Oh, yeah. I don't know what she ate, but wow. Wow. Talk about light a match.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I've smelled burned rubber in there a few times, but not lighter fluid.

[James Petregallo]

Not lighter fluid. That's something. So the detective said, instead of going back to that restroom, I found it very interesting that Miriam decided to walk across four lanes of traffic to go to the restroom across the street at a convenience store. So they said someone tried to light the goddamn gas tank on fire.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And the other thing is, why didn't it blow up?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Reason is Allen just filled the tank.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. It's fumes, not gas. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

If you have a thing of gas, it's not that, you know, you throw a match in it, it'll go out. You know what I mean?

[Jimmy Wisman]

It'll go.

[James Petregallo]

It's just liquid.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's full. That's not. It's one of the. If it's half a tank or lower, top chamber is all fumes.

[James Petregallo]

The vapor is the part that's gonna light on top of the shit, not the liquid. I mean, liquid lights too, but it's the vapor coming off of it that's on fire.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I believe when your engine spritz gas in there, it's not the gas that's flammable. It's when it compresses and turns into gas. That's into gas, not gasoline.

[James Petregallo]

Nope, gas. So they said a full tank has very little airspace, so there's very little vapor. And that's what explodes, not the liquid. So Alan was lucky. He wasn't lazy and said, I'll get gas later.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

Then he would have exploded.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Or somebody's stupid and thought, oh, now it's full. Now it'll really go.

[James Petregallo]

That's what most people would think. If you're an idiot, you would just think the more gas, the bigger the explosion. This is what you need. So they said that basically, the Delta investigation said it was a clumsy arson attempt and the fuel level saved his life.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Life, nice.

[James Petregallo]

But her explanation, because they talked to her about smelling lighter fluid in the bathroom that she was in. She told them that she took the wick into the bathroom at her husband's behest to prevent an explosion. So that's why it smelled in there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, she pulled the wick out, huh?

[James Petregallo]

And she said, take that in the bathroom so it won't blow up near the thing. That's what she said. However, Allen said, I don't remember that at all. I don't remember telling her to take it in the bathroom.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I wouldn't say take it to the bathroom.

[James Petregallo]

No. So who could have done this? They sit him down.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, what the fuck?

[James Petregallo]

And they say, alan, who the fuck is mad at you? Who'd wanna hurt you? And he said, well, a lot, actually. He said, there's two people that have had a problem with me. One was at the State bank, the President, the vice president. They were trying to accuse me of an illegal loan, which I didn't make. Okay, so that's one. But I don't know why the people who are trying to. At the state bank that are trying to charge him with something would try to blow him up. That doesn't make a lot of sense. Another's a failed business partner. He said, there's a business that failed. And that guy was pissed off at me. Also a friend who I testified against as well. He said, also might have been some kids. I saw some kids riding around on bikes. Maybe they thought it'd be funny to murder a man and blow him up in a car that's not really a teenager. I just saw a casino, looked insane. So Allen ran down a list. I mean, he gave them, like, a dozen people who could probably. Mike could be pissed at him enough to kill him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's in real business.

[James Petregallo]

But the police said, we're looking at Miriam.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

And he was like, what? So, yeah, this Detective Wells called Sean afterward to tell him, we're focusing on Miriam. We think she did it. And honestly, we think you might be in danger. And he said, what are you, a fucking asshole? My wife didn't try to fucking kill me, stupid. What are you, lazy? You don't want to do your fucking job? That's what he was saying, basically. Get to work. Get to work. The detective said Allen was not happy with me when I called him to let him know that I was focusing on Miriam, and I felt that he might be in danger. He was upset with me. He told me Miriam would never hurt him. He said he got super pissed. And Alan said, quote, oh, God, no, I don't think that. Why would she do that? That's a direct quote. He said he would be shocked if she tried to do something like that. He said, quote, I can't imagine her being malicious. What? I could imagine her as being very sick, but I don't think she's sick. So that'd be the only way she would do that if she was a real sick fucking lady. He said, number one, we have a prenuptial agreement. So if she blows me up, really doesn't do her.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She gets nothing.

[James Petregallo]

She gets nothing. And he even said. This is. The detective said, quote, he told me that Miriam would never hurt him. Alan said, there's no way it could have been Miriam. She has no reason to kill me. I'm worth way more to her alive than dead. Which is true.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's the way to do it. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He's Like, I don't understand. Why would she kill me if the gravy train ends the day I die? That doesn't make sense. So basically, he would put a dead end on anything they said. He's like, it ain't my fucking wife. If that's where you're gonna be in this investigation, I'm not even gonna fucking talk to you people. And without the victim's cooperation and anything else, basically just, it's a cold dead end and the case is closed. That's it. We don't know what happened. Could have been anybody, I guess. So that's April 30, 2008. June 10, 2008. This is, what, a month and 10 days later? Yeah. They have a plan. Alan and Miriam are supposed to be running separate errands and then meeting up for lunch at a Chinese restaurant. Okay, that sounds like a good day. Miriam's going shopping. She stops at the pharmacy to pick up Alan's prescription and learns that he never even dropped it off. So she can't get it. Lunchtime comes and she says she shows up at the Chinese restaurant and he's not there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No Allen.

[James Petregallo]

So she starts calling and leaving voicemails. One is, hey, honey, I'm here at the restaurant and you're not. What's going on? And then another says, hey, Alan, this isn't funny anymore. I've been sitting here in front of the Chinese place for 15 minutes and you're never late. So these are the voicemails she leaves. She also said that one of Allen's daughters called Miriam at 9:28am asking to speak to her father. And she said that Miriam said that she was running errands at the local Walmart Supercenter and that her father went to pick up a family vehicle that had been serviced. Now, Miriam told other people she left her home around 8:15am and that Alan was showering, but never mentioned anything about him having to pick up a car that morning. Which, who knows? Let me tell you, every errand we have to run, you might have just left shit out. Who cares?

[Jimmy Wisman]

It is fun that we get voicemails when we're 15 minutes late about how this isn't funny anymore.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah,

[Jimmy Wisman]

let a woman be 15 minutes late and leave her that voice.

[James Petregallo]

This isn't funny anymore. Yeah, you're gonna get yelled at for that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You better shut the fuck up about what's not funny.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I had shit to do. So. So she walked into the house. That's great. She walked into the house, called for Allen about noon. He doesn't answer. Move through the rooms into the kitchen and finds Alan on the floor, face down. Single gunshot wound to the back of the head, like we talk about. House is ransacked. Drawers have been pulled out. Chairs have been knocked over. A trash can is tipped on its side.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is the day that they were supposed to go to lunch.

[James Petregallo]

This is the day they were supposed to go to lunch. The day we started with where Alan's dead on the floor. By the way, what burglar is gonna knock over. Let's knock over that trash can. Because people keep their valuables in the garbage. Usually that's where they keep them. So not their jizz rag or some shit. They're gonna keep that in there. So 911 calls. She calls 911 and says, they broke into my house. It's on Seminole Road. Was crying so hard she couldn't give the address. She had to spell out the name of the street. And she said someone broke in. And she said, quote, this is from the recording. It looks like somebody came in and robbed him. Which if you walked in and just saw a bunch of shit knocked over, you'd think, yeah, looks like someone robbed him. So the cop who responded here said that MESA dispatch received a call from Miriam that she'd come home from being downtown after Allen failed to meet up with her. And she found her husband Allen, dead in a pool of blood on the floor. So they come in, like we said, she's crying hysterically. The jewelry is in these places. Six firearms throughout the house. Media photographer outside, all sorts of, you know, headlines of, holy shit, Run for the hills. Lock your doors, hide your children. There's murderers on the street. So. But they look and they say, it doesn't look right. Like I said, it looks like it's set up by someone who never burglarized a thing. Number one, they said where the house is is 40 acres at the end of a remote road. The locals all say, nobody. Unless you live there, nobody goes down there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

There's no reason to.

[James Petregallo]

Such a long drive to hit a dead end and not have anything to do. The other thing is the ransacking. They tore up the kitchen, but not the rest of the house. Oh, and basically the cops said, who the fuck keeps their valuables in the kitchen, right? It's not where anybody's valuables are.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Six inch bedrooms, very valuable.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You know what? You ever have one of those Le Creuset fucking. Le Creuset fucking things? They're like 500 bucks for a fucking frying Pan. You know what? Yeah. If anyone has like a real expensive cooking set that's worth killing them for at this point. Those are really expensive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got a couple of pans in there that I'm like, I'd rather somebody take my guns.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Rather someone take one of my cars. These are expensive. I have a kitchenaid mixer, man. You know what? That shit, that's expensive.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I got a couple of the steel, those old cast iron.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We got very well seasoned. You steal that?

[James Petregallo]

Forget about it. So you know how long it took to get those right? How many steaks I had to cook in that fucking thing? So that's an odd thing. The drawers that had been pulled open were all pulled to roughly the same distance, which is interesting. And the trash can tipped over is like for what? That's what they said too. Unless he tripped over it and nothing is gone, basically. So they're like, this doesn't make sense. His wallet is right there by the body with cash and credit cards still in it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, cash in it?

[James Petregallo]

Cash. Actual cash. His cell phone was right there. Jewelry, guns, electronics shit that you robbers take is all there still. So they said that, yeah. Finding the credit cards and the cash in his wallet, they were like, what the fuck? This is staged now. During the autopsy, they find a gunshot wound to the back of the head as the cause of death. They also find advanced heart disease. Alan was not in good shape.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He wasn't doing well at all.

[James Petregallo]

Not doing well at all. So, I mean, wasn't going to live another 20 years. Yeah, put it that way. Unless he got something seriously taken care of with his heart.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What did he and his ex wife eat their whole lives that did that shit?

[James Petregallo]

I mean, think about it. They came up, up in the 50s and 60s. Jesus Christ Almighty, who knows. And people ate. Think about the breakfasts people used to eat every day. That's insane. All those people died of heart attacks when they were 62.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's the problem really is amazing. The. The amount of slow the blood down that they would start at 6am that's crazy, man.

[James Petregallo]

I don't. I never understood that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Put some syrup in there.

[James Petregallo]

I never got that heavy things And. And pork and car cakes, man. Yeah, that was never. I never really had breakfast like that. No, no. Growing up, I wasn't into that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, my mom didn't cook shit. It was. There's cereal in the cabinet.

[James Petregallo]

My grandmother was always fruit and like maybe English muffins. That's breakfast. Like Italians don't eat big breakfasts. They eat Huge dinners. They don't eat big breakfast. Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about the best security you could possibly have.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Simply said safe simplisafe.com S I M P L I safe.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

In the United States, there's a break in every 26 seconds. That means over the course of this ad, like 3, 4 break ins will happen. That's a lot of break ins. And if you've listened to this show that you're listening to right now, small town murder. You know what can happen when a break in happens? Bad things. So the problem here is most security systems only alert you after the break ins already start garden, which you know by this show is way too late.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Way too late.

[James Petregallo]

Way too half your family could be murdered by then. That's why we chose Simplisafe to secure our homes and businesses and everything else. Simplisafe makes us feel good and secure and have peace of mind. Using safe. That's the thing. Using the Outdoor Camera Series 2 and advanced AI alert, SimpliSafes US based live agents identify threats on your platform property and help deter them. Stopping crime before it starts. That's peace of mind. Literally. They come up and they're like, get out of here. We're calling the cops. Cops will be there in two minutes. People run away. It's what it is. Telling you. It's so good. We use it for everything that we have, homes, offices. If I had anything else to put it on, I would. It's so good. I bought it as gifts for people that want home security. It's so good. Simplisafe has been a real game changer for us and we love it. I'm telling you, telling you. And there's no long term contracts. That's a huge thing. It's so important that you're not locked in. You don't want to be locked in in case your life needs change. Maybe you, you know, whatever. Simplisafe gets it. That means Simplisafe has to earn your business every day and they don't mind doing that. And also, you know, you think about this and I see so many shows we do where I'm like, oh my God, I'm so glad we have Simplisafe because this is. This could happen to other us. You know what I mean? And it's so inexpensive too. The monitoring and deterrence plan started around a dollar a day. A dollar a day to secure your family, your home, your things, your pets, everything. It's ridiculous. And Setting it up is so easy. I can't put together Ikea furniture and I can install a SimpliSafe system. It's excellent. And we want you to do it too. We want you to experience the same peace of mind we do, which is why we've partnered with. Partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com small that's half [e-mail] small there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now back to the show. And thankfully my mom never gave me that, like, shitty Malta meal. The bag cereal. She always, she always gave me good cereal. You got the bag cereal.

[James Petregallo]

No, that's why. Why do you think I love. I'm a freak for cereal now? Because it's the cereal I fucking wanted. Fucking cocoa. Cocoa lumps and fucking fruit hoops. I had it all, Jimmy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm not eating lumps for breakfast.

[James Petregallo]

I tried to make it as unattractive as possible, but I ate fruit hoops and all that kind of shit. Yeah, I ate all honey cracks.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why are the names so fucking funny?

[James Petregallo]

Unlucky charms. I had them all, Jimmy. Cookie Crunch. A little different than Cookie Crisp.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You didn't get tricks. You got jokes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I got jokes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn, man. That's horrible.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, man, it was, it really was.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This the funniest.

[James Petregallo]

Cocoa lumps. Want some? Want some cocoa lumps?

[Jimmy Wisman]

My mom brought that bag in the house, I swear to God. But I'll. I'll die by morning. I'm not eating that. That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

It's so bad, man. I'm not eating any, any tracks. I'm not having them. Tragic tracks. I don't want them.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So funny. Thankfully, she always gave us. She always gave us the, the name brand cereals. I was. That was very nice of her.

[James Petregallo]

That is great. No, that's great, man. That's. That's.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It was always.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It was.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Whatever one was on sale. It was never like, I want honeycomb. She'd never bring those home. It would be whatever the. Was cheap.

[James Petregallo]

4 for 10, 2 for 5, 2 for 4 even. That's where it was at. I have. It took me like until four years ago. I had never bought cereal that wasn't on sale. I've never bought retail price cereal until like four years ago.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Retail cereal is crazy.

[James Petregallo]

When I'm, you know, doing okay and I was looking and I was like, ah, I want that. But it's not on sale anymore. I'M gonna spend an extra $2 so I can get the thing I want. You know what? Fuck it. It was the first time in my life I've done that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Cocoa Pebbles is 439. I'm paying it it.

[James Petregallo]

I don't care. I'm not waiting till it's two for five and then I can match with the fruities. I'm not doing it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's also six or seven meals in that box too. You know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

It's worth it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It's not like it's worth it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's not like you're paying $4 for a bowl of cereal.

[James Petregallo]

No, that would be insane. Obviously. That's ridiculous. I'm on a big tricks kick right now, by the way.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I loved when they had the. The tricks that were the shapes of the fruit.

[James Petregallo]

That's what they do now. That's what they're really. Yeah, they go back and forth between the shapes and the balls. They're back to shapes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I love the shapes.

[James Petregallo]

Get in there. Yeah. Unless you want the tropical one which has like Moana on it. That's like balls of weird looking shit. Yeah. But you should get the regular one.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The shapes was. I was like, this is crazy. I have bananas in my bowl.

[James Petregallo]

I have great bunches. Where does it end?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Look at these. This is crazy.

[James Petregallo]

That's fucking great. The non name brand one was just vague shapes. It wasn't really like, what is that? It's purple. I guess that's grapes. I don't really see that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a cucumber. That's not even a lime.

[James Petregallo]

Whatever. All right, so the other thing, the time of death, his time of death was estimated to the morning when Miriam was out shopping and in that window. But there's not an exact time of death. It's a big window. And the earliest part of the window is three in the morning.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay?

[James Petregallo]

So it's basically between like three in the morning and ten in the morning,

[Jimmy Wisman]

seven hour window that he's been robbed and plugged in the head. Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Which is a big window. He could have been killed hours before sunrise. He could have done anything. So the first rule they say, and this is an investigator said, when investigators see a murder occur, the first thing we always say is check the spouse. Obviously they're the closest one. So please talk to Miriam. She's taken through the station and asked to walk through her day. And not only does she walk through her day, she gets from her own pocket a bunch of receipts of every single store she was at that Morning.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, she's pretty shopping.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You could see timestamps while I was here and then I was here and then I was here. So you know exactly where she was. All verified. Her cell phone they found to be have pinged off the towers consistent with where she said she was, as well as having the receipts, seats. Store surveillance cameras caught her at the store she named at the time she said she was there. The voicemails wore her voice looks pretty good. The only thing is they're saying she could have killed him before she went out and did all that. Cole, that's the problem. She could have done it from three in the morning on. So she could have shot him, took a shower, got all the blood and gunshot residue off of her and all that kind of shit. Got dressed nice, went out, went shopping, and then said, look at me. Stone cold alibi just sat in a

[Jimmy Wisman]

parking lot screaming, this isn't funny anymore.

[James Petregallo]

This isn't funny anymore. That's what they're saying. I mean, she'd have to be obviously diabolical to do that, but. Yeah. This is the sergeant who worked their firebombing case there said, in my experience as an investigator, most people in that situation would not be frazzled enough to. I'm sorry. Would be frazzled enough to not be prepared to present those things at that time. But not. Not Miriam. She was ready to go and ready to prove that timeline right away. Which seems odd. Now she voluntarily submits to GSR tests. Gunshot residue tests, Hands, arms and face. Comes back negative.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Her clothing shows no significant blood transfer either, other than when she was leaning. Things consistent with her being like that? No. Like high velocity spatter or anything like that. The other thing is, they said it's just weird. One investigator said a person that does enough research knows that if they go shower, change their clothes, you're not going to find gunshot residue on them. Especially from a small caliber pistol like a.25.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So.357 will leave enough on you where it might stick around. But a.25 has a.25 is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's short too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they said it's just. It has very little GSR to begin with. It just does. They set a 25, so the time gap if you showered, if you did other shit. Not exactly. You know, it makes sense that it wouldn't be there. So, June, this about two weeks. Goes by a little bit here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

They have nothing. It's just. They have a robbery basically that they don't think is a robbery, but they have no Proof that she did anything. And they have no proof of anything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But we've got a dead guy, and we've got to bury him. This sucks.

[James Petregallo]

We sure got a dead guy. Yeah. June 22, 2008. Miriam says that strange things have been happening at the house. Cabinets opening on their own. A door she knew that she'd locked would be unlocked now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

So, yeah, they're like. Are you saying she's got, like. You got a haunting?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Ghosts did this.

[James Petregallo]

Then she said, also, maybe not. It might be people. Because she said a second suspicious white truck kept cruising past the house. She asked neighbors if they'd seen anyone lurking around her house. And they all said, no, not at all. You're in the middle of nowhere. Then one day. Now this is. She's got her friend Penny with her. Remember Penny, the dancer that said that Alan got his spark back? They step onto the porch, and she spots a white envelope poking out from under the doormat. Written across it, it says, to the grieving widow.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's her.

[James Petregallo]

Okay? That's her. Inside is a card, a greeting card. Hallmark card. On the COVID is the fake line that Einstein never said, which is insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who said that?

[James Petregallo]

Someone made it up and said, if we say it's Einstein, everyone will think it's true. It's not Einstein. So that's on the front of the greeting card. And then when you open it up, but it's blank inside, but no, like, printed shit. But there's handwritten shit in there. Inside, it says, quote, allen was first. You're next. Run, run, run.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's a crazy thing. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And Allen is spelled with two Ls instead of one, which is how you spell his name. And the your is Y O, U, R, not Y O, U, R E, which is U R. Next. Okay. So Miriam finds it. She collapses to the ground. Her friend has to help her. She calls her lawyer, who then turns it over to police. Why would you call your lawyer first? Wouldn't you call the police first for that?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Who can I sue without this?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Now, the envelope has no postage. It was hand delivered out at a remote property. Yeah. The barcode has been cut off the card on the back. There's a barcode on the bottom. Gone.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How would you do that?

[James Petregallo]

In the back corner, to make it untraceable. What they think would be untraceable, but obviously. That's interesting. And the spelling, too. The name of Allen spelled wrong. And the your next. So they looked at all this. And they thought, you know, basically a stranger stalking this widow knows her husband's dead husband's name. Maybe she saw him in the paper. This guy died because there's been a lot of home invasion. And they put the address. I got their address. It was in the newspaper like crazy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The two L's is how you spell his name, huh?

[James Petregallo]

No, you spell it with one L. This is a misspelling.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Got it.

[James Petregallo]

So during this time, his daughter buys the business, purchased one of her father's businesses, the Helmet Mortgage Company, which she then sold five months later, made a little profit, which is what he would have wanted her to do, I'm sure. So the family here, including his son in law, Josh, told investigators that Miriam was flaunting the fact that she was entitled to everything the couple owned or came into after the marriage. He told investigators when he said, I knew this would happen. He said, I knew this would happen the day of the death. Referring to because he was wealthy. Now the investigation goes on. They talk to their housekeeper. This is who you want to talk to. The housekeeper knows all. They know everything. She's in the house. And also a lot of people treat housekeepers like furniture. Like they can't hear what you're saying, overhearing your conversations.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They've seen your shit streaks.

[James Petregallo]

They know all about your shit streaks. They know shit before you know shit. So this housekeeper, and she's been there for years, said that they were normally very chatty, but on the day before Alan was killed, they were not talking to each other. She said you could cut the tension with a knife. And she said that there was just something wrong that day. Miriam was sitting at a desk and, quote, had a look of hate and anger on her face that she thought was like, woof. She said, quote, I can still see that look. I see icy. So she said she went to the home on June 9, which wasn't her regular cleaning day, but the Helmicks were expecting guests. So she went and she said Alan and Miriam walked into the house together while the cleaning woman was in the middle of her work. And they said basically next to nothing. She said it was very strange from the time they walked into the door. It didn't appear that Alan wanted to talk. It looked like a couple that was fighting. And then they've walked into a third party. And now they have to both shut the fuck up up. Because they're not going to pretend everything's fine. Then investigators began looking into Miriam Moore and they found out this is from a. An affidavit quote, Miriam Helmick was transferring funds from Alan Helmick's personal checking account to herself and the Dance Junction account without Allen's knowledge before he died. Oh, so the d. Dance Junction here was in debt by the spring of 2007, as it. Of course, it is. Um, according to the affidavit, Helmick was making out more than $16,000 worth of checks from Allen's checking account to the dance studio and herself, and signing the checks, which she was not authorized to do. Okay, so she's been doing this for a while. She has been forging Allen's signature on a bunch of checks. Checks to herself, to her businesses, to the horse operation, and then she'd pull the money back out of those businesses and put it into her pocket. That's sustainable. She wasn't actually paying the bills of the businesses. She was putting it in, pocketing it. Yeah, she was making it look like she was paying the bills, but she wasn't. So I guess 10 forged checks are what we're talking about here. But they think there was more than that as well. There's a couple of different accountings of this. Some people say about $40,000 and some people say about $16,000. Not sure, but either way, Alan never noticed it. And thousands either way, didn't mistrust her at some point. Here, a very large amount of money reporting puts it about $140,000 had been moved out of Allen's personal checking account to pay down two commercial loans. These were loans that people that know Allen said he would never have done. He said he would have never handled it that way without driving to the bank in person and sorting it out face to face. That's how he did things. The bank wanted the balances paid. They tried to call Allen and got Miriam and got the voicemail, got the daughter. These are the people, they were sending these letters. This is the letter they're sending. Hey, why are you. Where's this money going? So that's what they said. And they said that maybe this was the. What this is that because they were trying to say she has no motivation because of the prenup.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's hemorrhaging money.

[James Petregallo]

But they say, yeah, but the thing is, if he finds out about this and divorces her, then she gets shit, right? And kicks her kicks.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He's getting that money right the back if she's still.

[James Petregallo]

If she's embezzling it or whatever. So that's the thing. So they're like, look, at this point, it might have been better for her to be that he was dead. One friend said if Alan learned that Miriam was stealing money from him, he would have kicked her out and divorced her. Period. That's it. Hard stop. So it's interesting, his accounts are being looted, loans are being taken out in his name. It's not good. This was all before he died. Then they show phone records here that they look. Because they're really looking into Miriam now. And they show. This is fucking crazy. She called her husband's cell phone from April 1st first through June 12th. She called him 217 times.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

Which I don't even know if that's a lot. Calling would be a lot. How long?

[Jimmy Wisman]

How. How big of a month?

[James Petregallo]

This is two months and 12 days. That's not a lot. It doesn't.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that's four times a day.

[James Petregallo]

Four times a day. If they were out or whatever I was gonna say when I'm on the road or something. Me and Sarah just back and forth the whole time we talk, you know, constantly calling each other back and forth. The weird part is. That's not the weird part. The weird part is there was only a conversation twice out of 217 times she called her husband.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He never answers her.

[James Petregallo]

The rest went straight to voicemail. And they said 153 calls were bounced off a cell tower just across the street from their home, suggesting that both of them were in close proximity. So this is in the house they're calling now. What they figure is through this, Allen had just one saved message from April 1st through the day that he died on his phone. On the morning of June 10, Miriam left four voicemail messages on her husband's phone. All of them were played later on. And we know what that is. It's not like you to call, Call me, give me a holler. All these, and then the ones we told you so they're like, what? Why would he. You know what I'm saying? Why would he not answer? Well, why is. Okay, there's no messages left any other time. So why on this day is she leaving four voicemails when the whole rest of the time she only left two in two and a half months? But she leaves four of the same 200 times.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He doesn't answer you anyway. What do you mean? It's not funny. He never answers you.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And a lot of those, they think, were her checking his voice. Also, because, remember, you just have to call your voicemail, Right? Yeah. So the investigators also learned that the time. What she was doing around the time of the death wasn't consistent with her usual schedule. One of Allen's daughters said it made very little sense why Miriam would call Allen several times the day of his death. Because she kept his phone in her purse most of the time, so he probably didn't even have it. And according to phone records and receipts and all that kind of shit, she said she started running errands at 9am at the Orchard Mesa Market at 17629 Road and went to several other stores until about 11. Went to get Chinese food, he never answered. She went home. During her errands, she called six times and left four voicemails.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Now, the other thing they learn is they really wanted to figure out what's up with that card because if someone did put that card on there, obviously they'd be someone they would want to talk to because that's like a murdery thing to do. So they need to find out who did this. Now, there's no prints, there's no DNA. Someone did this. Right. The card itself though, has no barcode. But someone made this card. It's a store bought card. Somebody made the. It's not a homemade card.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, I see. Yeah, a company has it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, a company made this card. So they contact the company that made the card and said, we got this fake Einstein card.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Where are you selling this?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, where are you selling it?

[Jimmy Wisman]

We got your bullshit Einstein.

[James Petregallo]

Who gets your horseshit on there. It's probably got Einstein's face on it too. And they said, well, it's only sold at three stores in that area. Okay, so that's good. Narrow it down. They went to the stores and a loss prevention officer at a city market which is about 10 to 13 miles from the Helmick home said that that exact card had been sold there recently.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

And I have video if you want to see the person buying it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's amazing that they can just. Yeah, we, based on this barcode, we know exactly when.

[James Petregallo]

It didn't even have a barcode. Many of them, yeah, it didn't even have a barcode.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right, but, but the ones that exist, you can just pull that barcode and be like, yeah, this barcode's been run this many times.

[James Petregallo]

Totally, absolutely. So they get the tape. It's a VHS that they record over all the time. So I mean, you can't. It's snowy and everything, but they can see it's fucking Miriam buying the card.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, Miriam.

[James Petregallo]

It's Miriam. How dare you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You threatened yourself.

[James Petregallo]

She carried it up to the register, paid in cash and walked out four Days before, she found it under her doormat that she was also wearing the same style of shirt that she had walked in with during her interview. So it's definitely her. She's even wearing her shirt that she wears.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How do you walk into the card aisle and go, this one's creepy.

[James Petregallo]

This one will do? Yeah, it's fucking.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It has the word insane on it.

[James Petregallo]

Insane. And yeah, I'm going to do it over and over again, meaning I'm going to kill more. So now they have the tape. They know she wrote the card. They know that she has been fucking around with the money. They know that the bank wanted to talk to them. They know all this shit. So they're like, we gotta go talk to her. And confronted with the tape, she said, okay, fine, I wrote the card first. She said, absolutely not. And then they showed her the tape and she went, okay, fine, I bought it. It's me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, the easy thing to wait to sidestep that is I bought a bunch of cards. Why would she only buy one? That's a stupid move. I had a bunch of cards in the house. Somebody took one out of the house and wrote it to me. That's a good answer.

[James Petregallo]

You could try that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's the best answer you got.

[James Petregallo]

It's not good, but it's better than, okay, fine, it's me.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I guess it's better than, I've never seen it before. Well, there's a tape of you seeing it.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fuck.

[James Petregallo]

So our explanation was that I didn't do it to throw you off the course or to try to. I did it to try to help you guys.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, God. Ma'. Am.

[James Petregallo]

She said she felt the police weren't working hard enough on Allen's murder, so she planted the threat so it would reignite the case, light a fire under their ass, and maybe even get some more media attention, which would force you guys to do more work on this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You understand? I gave you another clue.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And they were like. Like, huh, Stupid. All day, every day, we've been working on this. There's not a lot of murders around here. This is kind of a big deal. People are wanting this solved. So she also said, I even know who my alt. I know who killed my husband. I know who did it. And they said, well, who? And she said, Alan Jr. Oh, his own son. She said he had a strained relationship with Alan Sr. And Alan Sr. Had recently cut him off financially. So he had motive to do this. She said, also, I think Alan Jr. Has a methamphetamine problem.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, he's a meth head.

[James Petregallo]

That's what she says. Who knows? And suggested that I think not only did he. Now stay with me. She said, this is gonna be crazy, you guys all listening, the bated breath with notebooks. And they said not only did he kill Alan, I think he tried to blow up the car too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, he followed us on our road trip.

[James Petregallo]

Diabolical. So the investigators, I mean, they had to take it at face value. They brought Alan in, they checked him. He had 100% solid alibis for both the fire day and the killing day. Not Allen.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's the thing about when you make it up. Yeah, they're doing their day.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And he was still saying, oh, I love my dad and he's the best guy ever. So then the prosecutor said that Allen had taken out a $25,000 life insurance policy six days after his murder. I don't know how you do that.

[Jimmy Wisman]

How do you do that?

[James Petregallo]

Miriam called asking how she could collect the money, but she was told she couldn't because the policy was void after several monthly premiums went unpaid. If you're going to take out, you know, you have to pay the premium, stupid. That's part of it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You got to pay your bills.

[James Petregallo]

You got to pay your bills. So then they go to the computers. Now they take Miriam's computer and they found over 180 searches related to Allen's medications. Now mind you, there's no poison in the system or anything like that. The gunshot wound is the death. She searched Ambien overdose. She searched Viagra overdose. Oh, your dick explodes.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's just Porky's where I.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Yeah, it's all frayed on the end is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's Elmer Fudd in it. Yeah, whatever.

[James Petregallo]

It's Elmer Fudd. Yeah, but I get what you meant. I saw him. They're similar looking. They're the same fat guy, same dude. Yeah. So she also, she searched that. What happens when you mix Ambien and Viagra if you have heart problems? Because she knows he's got heart issues.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Dang. That's a sleepy boner.

[James Petregallo]

Then she searched poisoning methods, ways of poisoning people that are undetectable, less detectable and all that kind of shit. It's wild.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If this is true, this woman went through all the trouble in the world and was like, fuck it, I'm gonna shoot him.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

So the computer, by the way, was a gateway. Which is just if you want a little blast from the past with the cow spots and all that shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Those Cow spots are amazing.

[James Petregallo]

They had whole giant stores full of those fucking things. That's insane.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The box that showed up was all cow print.

[James Petregallo]

It was all big cow print. So this computer was Miriam's computer and showed the repeated Internet searches. But overdosing on the drugs he already had and different fucking ways to make it. She even searched for how to put a horse down at home.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, you monster.

[James Petregallo]

They presume that that was for him, not the horse, because no horses have been put down. So if you can put a horse down with something, you could probably do it for a 64 year old guy too. Same thing.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I bet the first page says how big a gun you got?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you got a big old gun. You got one of those things they hit the cows with in the head when you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, those are very expensive to put down, I bet. Yeah, a horse, it costs thousands of. Put them down.

[James Petregallo]

Everything with a horse costs thousands of dollars. Everything. Yeah, they just know only rich dumb will pay for horses. So they just charge whatever they want. Yeah, that's what it is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

But when you, when you put them down, I mean that, that horse is thousands of pounds. So you put it down and then

[James Petregallo]

600 pound horse you have to deal with.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now it's dead weight. Some are 2000 pounds, 1500. Huge.

[James Petregallo]

They're huge. Yeah, so. So they said that his daughters thought that he wasn't himself lately and that he was far more ill than he should be. But no poison was ever found in his system. We don't know if she was doing experiments that didn't work. Then they find out that investigators learned that Miriam might have had access to a 25 caliber pistol. This pistol Alan had received from the estate of his first wife's stepfather. The stepfather had given it to the daughter through a death and then he ended up with it after she died. Now Investigators cannot find the.25 caliber. It is not one of the guns they found in the house. But ballistics experts said that if they could find a bullet fired from the gun, they could match it with the bullet that's in Alan's head. And maybe they could do something. So we'll get more on that in a second, by the way. Now they have a prenup. So they're like, why would she do it? And that's when they look at all the fraud she was doing. And they were like, oh, that's why. So he didn't leave or kick her out. Then the police discover her past. They hadn't known shit about her before this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, Jacksonville is a nebulous place.

[James Petregallo]

Well, they didn't even know she was from Jacksonville. Really?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

So they said, okay, she's from out of state. And then when they figured out Florida, the sergeant said, after those discoveries, I realize this is not just bad luck for Miriam. I realize there's more to the story than we know. Daughter amy, dead at 23 of an accidental overdose. $100,000 policy goes to Miriam husband Jack, dead by a suicide from a gunshot to the wrong side of her head. And her own half brother is the guy processing it and deciding that it's a suicide. And another hundred thousand dollar policy that she blew through. Then she was in jail on the counterfeit check thing she allegedly embezzled from her own father and stopped the mail from coming, just like she was doing with Alan.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're talking about a third life insurance policy possibly going to this woman. How many life insurance policies on average does a person claim?

[James Petregallo]

I hope not many. I have none on anybody. I don't think I got to assume

[Jimmy Wisman]

it's one, maybe two. Yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Me and you have life insurance for each other because we run a business together and we have to. That's it. Yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

This shit's over. Something. Yeah, that's it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All 80 grand.

[James Petregallo]

I'm taking it and running. Staying up all night reading this. You?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm gonna buy a trailer on the western slope of the Rockies.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Call it a life. That's amazing. So anyway, they said the fire on her parents back porch, by the way, was also then arsoned. It all lines up. And the detective in Florida or the detectives in Colorado asks, florida, please reopen the Jack Giles case. Oh, we're pretty sure she did this. And Florida said no.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're Jacksonville.

[James Petregallo]

Nope, we're not. Yeah, there's plenty of people die here. We don't care.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Gators everywhere. We don't have time to investigate shit.

[James Petregallo]

They said that they would. Would not help pursue it as a murder. They'll do nothing for anyone in Colorado or reopen this year. We don't care. Not our problem.

[Jimmy Wisman]

We're not investigating anything.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. Real nice work down there. Now Miriam, when they go to talk to Miriam now, they realize she has left. She's gone out of Colorado. She's left the state.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She left Colorado too.

[James Petregallo]

She fucking took off. That's it. She can't afford the house anymore and anything like that, so she takes off. She moved in with her son who told her to stay put in Colorado and settle everything. And she told him no. The police cleared me. They said it's fine. So I'm coming to live with you in Florida.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She went back to Florida.

[James Petregallo]

Jacksonville. Back to Jacksonville to live with her adult son. And she also, her friends are loaning her money so she can get clothes and get back on her feet.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Eat.

[James Petregallo]

It's bad. So what does she do? Starts dating again. Yeah, Immediately they were like, her friends were saying like, isn't this a little early? He just died. This is like September 2008. They're like, he died in the beginning

[Jimmy Wisman]

of the summer, but it wasn't. I mean he had a heart disease. He was going to die anyway.

[James Petregallo]

That's how kind of she's saying it. She got onto a. She did a dating app or a website at the time and. And it's basically a. One of the ones that matches millionaires with women. Yeah, that's the one she gets on. Of course. Not looking for love here.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

She told a friend before she ever met Alan, Miriam said that she wanted a rich old man and didn't care if he had one foot in the grave.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Good lord.

[James Petregallo]

And she said about Allen, quote, it took me a long time to find Alan. He was the only one with a poor portfolio big enough to suit me. That's what she told a friend on this site. She found a wealthy older man near Orlando whose profile says he was looking for a partner. Who could do what? Jimmy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Ah, dance.

[James Petregallo]

Dance.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Dance bitch.

[James Petregallo]

Now that I can dance. And also one who loved horses.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Uh huh.

[James Petregallo]

I mean it should have said Miriam, where are you? Yeah, so if it said Miriam, where are you? She wouldn't have been able to answer because she's not going by Miriam at this point.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What, she changed her name?

[James Petregallo]

She didn't change it. She's going by a few things now. I'll say that in a second. She messaged him that she could dance any dance and you know, he liked her. They hit it off. She drove a few hours to Orlando, spent the weekend with him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He thinks though her name is not Miriam because she introduces herself as Sharon Helmick. Do you know who that is?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Do you remember his ex wife that died?

[James Petregallo]

His dead wife? Not ex wife, his dead wife, his widower. Why did she do that? She has stolen her ID and is using her fucking ID and saying I'm Sharon Helmick. She even used her name to get a job for two months doing sales.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

She has stolen her identity.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's taken the identity of a woman who's harmed. Exploded like a water balloon in her

[James Petregallo]

chest before the fucking ball even dropped.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What an asshole.

[James Petregallo]

She's an asshole. And according to the guy down there, she explained her availability was basically, her late husband died of a brain disease. And that had been coming for years. And that's why she was free to date so soon, because she'd been prepared for so long to lose him. And he hadn't been, like, lucid or anything in months. And so, I mean, she really has. She's mourned him for.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He died of a brain disease where his brain's allergic to.25 caliber bullets.

[James Petregallo]

Well, his brain's on the cabinets. And apparently that's a disease. You gotta keep those in your skull, apparently. That's what I understand.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's on the outside.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, your brain's actually come to the outside of your skull. It's terrible. Terrible disease.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What an. Gosh, she's such a dick.

[James Petregallo]

She's a dick, man.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is a dick. That's incredible.

[James Petregallo]

Then they find. And this is the treasure trove here, they find a business associate of Miriam who's a horse trainer who. Wow. They talked to her. Her name is Jerry, with a J, J, E, R, I. Now, she says here that Lately, in late 2008, Miriam claimed to her, to Gerry, that she was in a mental health institution after attempting to commit su. Don't we wish that's what she told her friend. So they were like, okay. She said she'd admitted after she tried to hurt herself. This is Jerry Yarborough is the horse breeder. And she said that, you know, Yarborough said that. Miriam didn't offer any details about the incident other than, quote, it's not like I tried to shoot myself.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Tried to off herself in some way is what she's saying. But she's never in a mental institution or anything like that. That it's just lying. This conversation happened in September 2008, after Miriam had phoned Jerry, quote, out of the blue about the health of a horse.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

When asked why Jerry didn't ask more questions, she said, I didn't want to know. I was getting more crazy in the whole. Or was getting more crazy. And the whole thing was. The whole case was just going bizarre.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every time she talks, it gets weird.

[James Petregallo]

I want no part of this. I don't care is what she said. Well, that's not my problem.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Problem.

[James Petregallo]

I'm sure there's cops involved. Then she talks about a phone call that she had with Miriam on June 12, 48 hours after the murder. June 12, my birthday, by the way, she said that Jerry said that about a. This is a separate phone call with Miriam Gerri Yarborough said she was struck by Miriam's matter of fact demeanor and how she just volunteered information, including how the police had seized her clothing from June 10th to check for. And she said, quote, high velocity blood spatter, which is very specific. Miriam told Yarbrough that she suspected that a man affiliated with Dance Junction had killed her husband. So somebody who was some disgruntled two stepper is. I don't. Is pissed off. How come. How could anybody be mad enough about anything at a dance studio to murder somebody?

[Jimmy Wisman]

I mean, honestly, just can't get that foxtrot. It is so frustrating.

[James Petregallo]

You can't get it. It's so weird. So she said she couldn't recall Miriam's reply when asked if she had reported these suspicions to law enforcement. And then Miriam told her, quote, the cops don't care what I have to say.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Don't care. Also, Miriam volunteered other bits of information during the June 12 conversation because of course she did. Including the fact that someone had set her cars, her husband's car on fire while it was in the. Parked outside his business. She had said, quote, I found out. This is what she. This is the quote, I found out a car won't explode if it has a full tank of gas. And then she left. This is two days after what?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. I found out, which I believe is physics, by the way, which is pretty ironic.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, he could have told you that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, he probably could have told you all about why that happened. So, yeah, she found out and then laughed. And then she said, this is Jerry said. She said she was going to miss his sense of humor. And then she laughed again.

[Jimmy Wisman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

Damn. When pressed by Miriam here or later on, I mean, Yarborough said she didn't immediately report the statements to law enforcement because she doesn't believe Miriam confided about committing crimes. So what was I gonna do? Call and say she's weird on the phone?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

Like, we assume she's the spouse. So you're already looking into her. Like we just assume that. I'm not gonna call you up and go, hey, she's acting and, I don't know, kind of funny. She kind of laughed at a weird time. So I know you guys don't have any evidence yet or anything, or else she'd be in handcuffs, but maybe if you could just arrest her anyway. What am I supposed to do?

[Jimmy Wisman]

People that have a spouse or even just even an ex spouse that die, sometimes they say some wild shit, like

[James Petregallo]

right out there, your brain is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's Weird.

[James Petregallo]

It's a weird time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

When he was dying, his ex wife, they'd been divorced for four or five years, she wandered by the room and goes, he's on life support. And she wanders by the room and goes, just go with God. And then walked away. I was like, he's right there.

[James Petregallo]

I think he's working on it. He's getting ready is what. He's putting his shoes on. Give him a minute.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I think he's trying his hardest, really. I mean, he's on life support.

[James Petregallo]

What more do you want from this poor man? Oh, death. That's what you want? Okay, nevermind.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Matter of fact, I think they had just taken him off and he was like. He was still breathing and doing.

[James Petregallo]

You don't just die as soon as you take you off.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Everybody thinks that, like you, you like. They don't even unplug it. That's not a thing either. They like pull the plug and then it goes beep.

[James Petregallo]

And then the guy's dead and you go, well, that's that. And everybody goes, if they pulled the

[Jimmy Wisman]

plug, it would make no noises at all.

[James Petregallo]

It's got no electricity, there's nothing there.

[Jimmy Wisman]

They literally disconnect you from it. And slowly it tapers off. Right. She was just like, go with God. I'm like, bitch, I still love him. You may not.

[James Petregallo]

Can I. Can we have maybe 10 more minutes? Then after that. Now you're impatient.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Unbelievable.

[James Petregallo]

Clearly we're at the end. Now you're impatient. So Jerry here also said that Miriam said that Alan had been an asshole to her the last couple of weeks, but didn't go into detail. And Miriam also told Jerry that she'd been hiding money at the dance studio so that she had access to money. And then she said to Jerry, quote, I sure am gonna miss him. And then laughed hysterically. Wow, she's an asshole. Just like a dick. Wow. Wow, that's fucking wild. And she also said, I didn't know that a full tank wouldn't blow up. And then laughed again.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So she's working on her hot five, James.

[James Petregallo]

She really is, man. She's got. Yeah, she is. Well, it's 2008. She's still thinking she can get on like the Tonight show or something. It's still a thing to get on a late night show. She's trying.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And she's selling the jokes by laughing at him herself. If you do that, it encourages laughter.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's like when Dave Chappelle smacks the mic on his leg. It's that fucking cue you to Laugh now. It's. And that's training you to laugh is what that is. When a comic does that, they're training you in the first two minutes, and then by five minutes into it, it's. I say a joke, I hit the thing, you laugh.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Now it's a. I stumble and almost fall down myself. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Cause I'm so. Like, I didn't even know that was coming out of my mouth.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'm joking my own jokes. Yep.

[James Petregallo]

That's what comics do, sadly enough. You want to behind the scenes. That's what it is.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I am shocked how amazing I am.

[James Petregallo]

All right. I'm cracking my own shit up. And it's wild that you folks found it so funny, too. Weird, right?

[Jimmy Wisman]

You see it? You see where I'm going?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you see? You got it. So prosecutors here, they want to try to figure out if she actually tried to give him cpr. And this is one of the things that happens in a lot of these cases, the Lori Valo Daybell case. They found out in Arizona that he definitely. She wasn't giving Charles Vallow cpr. And Corey Richards also pretended to do cpr, and neither did her brother. And, yeah, bullshit. All bullshit. So the prosecutors use. They have a bunch of people they're trying to round up here. So they said that she's heard on the 911 call sobbing as the dispatcher tries to coach her through cpr, which, by the way, she's at least acting hysterical. Corey Richards doesn't even try on the 911 call. They're like, Do CPR. And she's like, nah. And they're like, can you pull him off the bed? Can you get him on the floor? And she's like, I don't know. No, she's real. Just like, I don't know. I can't do.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She called him heavy or something.

[James Petregallo]

That was later, when she's like, he was just so cold and heavy. But on 911, she might have said that. But they were like, you should do this. And she's like, I can't.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I can't.

[James Petregallo]

And they're like, you have. There's no can't, bitch. You have to. And she's like, okay. And then they're going, 1, 1,000, 2, 1,000. Count with me. And she's like, 1 1,000, 2, 1000. Not out of breath from frantically.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's not doing it.

[James Petregallo]

Compressions. She's not doing shit. So she's heard doing that. And as they're coaching her through cpr, at one point, she Tells the dispatcher she's following the instructions. Okay. Now, former. A county sheriff deputy who was the first law enforcement on the scene said that he'd been advised by dispatchers that she was in the process of performing CPR on her husband. So this guy expected to walk in on cpr, but when he walked in, Miriam was just kneeling on the side of her husband, but not performing any form of cpr. And he also testified she had no blood on her face, hands, or clothing, and no bloody towels were found there. So it's not like she. She was giving him, you know, was blowing in his mouth and then wiped her face off or something. None of that shit. So a doctor of forensic. A doctor who's a forensic pathologist to examine Allen also said he found no evidence of bruising or fractures on Alan's chest, which you always get from cpr, if not fractures, at least bruising.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

Especially when someone's frantically doing it because they're bashing down on you.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, a lot of people don't notice. Put firm pressure to do it. They're just fucking whacking away.

[James Petregallo]

And even that leaves bruising because you're doing it hard and you're pressing past the point where it should go. So you're doing that, and it'll break your ribs or sternum a lot of times. So the doctor said that he believes no attempt was made to ever revive Allen. Okay, now the bullet. Here we go. Because right now this is all very circumstantial for sure.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, it looks bad, it's a mountain of circumstance. But where's the smoking gun, so to speak, right? So the murder weapon's a.25 caliber, never recovered. But Allen's daughter remembered there had been a.25 caliber in the house in the past belonging to her mother, Sharon, handed down from Sharon's stepfather, like we said. Now, this is the. Wow, this daughter really good shit here. She said, okay, about 20 years ago. Right away, it's an eyebrow ray. 20 years ago, probably 1989. Sharon's stepfather, who had the.25 at the time, when he's obviously still alive, got into an altercation near his home and struggled with a neighbor who tried to intervene and fired a shot into the ground to dispel the situation.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What? The stepfather, he got into a scuffle with a neighbor and another warning shot into the ground.

[James Petregallo]

And I guess it was two on one. And he said, fuck this. Boom. Who wants some? And then the ground is better than in the sky where it would have landed on somebody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So One shot, warning shot into the

[James Petregallo]

ground, into the ground. Now this is a long shot because they're like, okay, if we could recover that bullet. And it's the same gun, which they don't know it's the same gun. It's a 25 caliber, which is not an uncommon gun.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, it's a Saturday night special. Women carry it in their purse all over this country.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. So there's like, they don't know it's the same gun, but if they could find on a 50 acre property where he shot into the ground 20 years ago and he may have mowed since then.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's the thing about a 25 ton, it's not a lot of powder behind it. So it could have done just hit the ground and bounced off. He may have mowed there, took that

[James Petregallo]

shit somewhere else, shot it into the woods or there's no woods around here, but into the mountains off the mesa. I don't know.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Shot off onto the plane somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, somewhere down into the desert there where those poor people are farming on the hillside.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Landed in some buffalo shit somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

That gets very possible. So this is a real, like they heard this and they're like, yeah, what are the, what are the fucking odds of this? You know, like, this is stupid.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So is there something, anything, whatever?

[James Petregallo]

So they, they said, let's go look. So they go to try to find a 20 year old slug pumped into the ground by a man nowhere near connected to this fucking case. I mean, a dead woman's dead stepfather on a random shitty afternoon, a dead man's dead wife's dead stepfather. That's whose bullet we're looking for here. It's a lot, a lot of dead. Yeah. So they want to see. They said the gun, basically the gun. Miriam had access to a 25. So they were like, you know, who knows? So the neighbor who'd been there 20 years earlier still lived nearby and was willing to go over and show them the rough area that this happened in.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He remembers.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, you're gonna remember that when your neighbor busted a shot off because there was a scuffle. So they bring in the county, brings in a retired officer who everybody knows as like Mr. Metal detector. Like he's the best. He does it in his free time. He's really good with a metal detector and can find anything. And if, you know, metal detecting, it's really hard and if you're not good at it, you're not good at it. We had this one guy who would come over and metal detect in our yard because we have a 200 year old house. And he'd fight all sorts of cool shit. But I mean. I mean, he was really out there, like on his knees and he's going around. He'd find like old coins from the 1800s and cool shit like that out there. And he gave us everything. He just wanted to find it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Remember he found a belt buckle and a bunch of shit on the lower half of a body. I'm like, james, there's a body somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

There's somewhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

A pocket watch, a fucking knife, a belt buckle. That's everything below the waist.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, not my problem. Either that or somebody. Somebody got to fucking. And they were like, pants off and just ran with their dick dangling out and then ran. So they said, this is the guy. If it's out there, he's gonna find it. So they sent him out over all of this acreage with a metal detector and said, find us one bullet if you could.

[Jimmy Wisman]

25. It's the size of your pinky nail, James.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, very small bullet, very tiny. Yeah. So they're like, find that. And he fucking did what? He pulled a fucking tiny.25 caliber out of the ground that's been there for 20 fucking years. Wow. He pulls it out of the ground. Now it's damaged and corroded from 20 years in the soil, of course, but they said, ah, shit. And it was damaged from impact. The fatal bullets, damaged from impact. But the firearms examiner looks at them and finds the rifling and striations consistent.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You can.

[James Petregallo]

Consistent enough to conclude they've been fired from the same gun.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Think about. That's good police work.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No shit, that is.

[James Petregallo]

And not even police work too. That's also great thinking on the daughter's part to go, hey, this might be nothing, but I think there was a.25 involved.20. I mean, think about the memory for that. Who the fuck knows what gun your step grandfather had 20 years ago?

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's probably the only event she remembers from that gun. Maybe. Yeah. I don't think you're gonna forget that. When the barbecue was ruined, how would

[James Petregallo]

you know it was a.25? And how would you say, I bet it's the same.25? That's crazy. I wouldn't have known that. So. So anyway, they complain Western Slope people, no fucking firearms. No firearms. They need to. So then the car fire they talk about too here. This detective didn't throw anything out. So when Mesa county called Delta to ask on the off chance whether anyone had kept evidence from that failed arson that they closed the case on, Detective Sean Wells said, I got everything. I got the wig, I got it all. And so I have the. You know, the pull came out of the device. It's in my. In the evidence room. He said, quote, mesa county called and asked if I had any evidence by chance from an attempted arson case. I was able to let them know that I did keep the wick as evidence and still had it in my property room. So the prosecutors and DA determined the type of rope the wick was made from and found the same type of rope in Miriam's horse trailer, the trailer she used to haul her horses. Not good. A cutout consistent with a horse lead or rope from her own equipment as well. And they said the thing. Obviously it looked like that. So. Yeah. And then they processed Miriam's vehicle, by the way, and they found a very small amount of gunshot residue on the steering wheel.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, she fired a gun and drove and drove. Oh, my God, she did that.

[James Petregallo]

She fucking did all this shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Did her whole ass day.

[James Petregallo]

She is with a little bit of gunshot residue on her hand. And it must have worn off by the time. By the time they were doing a GSR test, it was 12 hours later. She had taken a shower, done errands, probably washed her hands 10 times. So December 8, 2008, in Duval County, Florida, she is arrested. Wow. She is charged with murder, attempted murder, because they're charging her for the arson attempt and 10 counts of forgery, also for all the checks.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

It might be 11 counts with the insurance thing, too. Now they take her into custody, and when they arrest her, the ID she has on her is Sharon Helmick's id. Oh, fuck. Wow. They should add identity theft to it, too.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Honestly, that's just par for the course in Florida.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's just normal down there. Par for the Florida course, everybody. That's just the sixth hole in Florida.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So that fucking Casey Anthony pretended she stole the. I mean, she didn't even. She's invented an identity.

[James Petregallo]

An identity, a job, everything. I work down this hallway.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Where's your office? Oh, shit. Never mind.

[Jimmy Wisman]

So Florida.

[James Petregallo]

It's so Florida. So she's returned back to Colorado, she appears in court, and she's charged with all these things. She cannot make bail because it's $2 million. Little pricey. And Alan's oldest daughter, Portia, is in control of his assets, so that's that. She's not allowed her new boyfriend, Charles Kirkpatrick. This is unexpected for this poor bastard. He will surface up as a witness, too. And. And he said he already kind of Got out of the relationship. Not because he thought she was a murderer, but he said that he was scared off by. She was pushing too early and too often to move into his place already. Because she lived with her kid. She wanted out. They need a house. Yep. And then they talk about what? About her first husband. Well, J.P. morgan, who the time this was going on was still a deputy with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Department. Department. Yeah. Was among the first law enforcement officers who arrived at the scene. The death was ruled a suicide. And they said it's very obvious. This is an assistant DA in Colorado. Said it's very obvious. Jacksonville law enforcement did not take this very seriously as a homicide investigation. That's crazy. Then they find images on her computer for 39 driver's licenses.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's got 39 other people's IDs.

[James Petregallo]

We don't know if these were for future schemes or past schemes. We're not sure. But she had 30. Fucking 38. Because 39 was Sharon's. So 38 besides Sharon's. This is crazy. So we don't know what she had planned. And she's not telling anybody.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's just gonna run. Until they caught onto that person and changed to another person.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. She doesn't seem to really be planning things out very well.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's bad at the.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This.

[James Petregallo]

She's not good at this. No, she's. Because she's a fraud person who just kind of robs Peter to pay Paul. And when you get murder involved, there's no. You can't rob anybody to pay that back anymore.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She's also an 80s and 90s fraud person. She's not a 2013 fraud person.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no, no, no. She's not. She's like a Catch me if you can. I'll wash this check. She's not a. Let me get inside the account and do some hacking and some. Move. Yeah, this isn't that bad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And she forgot that they already got fail safes for our wash. This check thing.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, because of that. Because that happened 30 years ago.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Idiot.

[James Petregallo]

So the trial comes up and there is a pretrial ruling about the Jack Giles case, whether that can be brought up. Her first husband, the judge rules that evidence about Jack Giles death is inadmissible and too prejudicial. Especially.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Because it's still a suicide.

[James Petregallo]

It's still technically a suicide. And they said if a jury heard about her dead first husband shot in bed, and then signed off on by her brother, it's not gonna look good. And basically they're gonna Convict her on that alone, essentially. So the prosecution does their opening, and they say Miriam repeatedly accessed the voicemail of her husband's cell phone in the months leading up to his killing. They said that they're seeking to illustrate what they allege is a pattern of isolation and already calling it coercive control. Even back then, they're saying isolation and control by Miriam just before the shooting death of Allen. And her attorneys obviously say that the authorities can't prove why she was prying into her husband's phone messages.

[Jimmy Wisman]

True.

[James Petregallo]

Can't prove it. At one point, they. Yeah, they're talking about all of that like there's no reason for it. So what do you care? Now, the prosecutor who's opening remarks for about an hour, which is a good time, not too long, but not so short that it's like, Jesus, they don't have anything. They said you're going to hear from a man who went on a date with Miriam in the fall of 2008 in Florida there. So you're going to hear from that guy. She met the man in an online dating service catering to millionaire men. So that will make her look like a gold digger at that point. The man will testify that Miriam told him that Allen's death was natural and that it wasn't much of a shock. That looks bad. I mean, but her being a liar doesn't mean she's a murderer because she lied to a guy she's in a fucking relationship with. That's not enough. But if you add it all up, Allen was purposely isolated from his family. They said when someone on the path to loneliness crosses path with greed, the results are devastating. Yeah, that's the prosecutor. That's a good line. The prosecutors also argue the death of her first husband in the face of financial woes shows a pattern. They're not allowed to bring up any of the circumstances, but in the media they are. They had written in a court filing, too. The chances of two successive husbands committing suicide or being murdered in the wake of financial difficulties by someone other than the spouse are extremely small.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Very small.

[James Petregallo]

That's what they tried to do to get the stuff into court, which it's not allowed to be in the court. So that was their argument.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That is fascinating, though, because it's very rare that somebody is in financial woes and somebody murders that person's spouse and

[James Petregallo]

they're like, oh, well, and solves it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Well, that was lucky.

[James Petregallo]

Well, I'll solve now. Now I can pay those bills off. So the defense here, she has a public defender and Said questions surrounding. Basically, they were the ones that argued that you shouldn't let Jack Giles murder into this because obviously it's going to be a distraction. And said the fact that Mrs. Helmick had tragedy in her life before doesn't mean she's more likely to commit murder. Which is also true. The defense slammed law enforcement's efforts on the case, saying they snared an innocent person in an investigation that quickly arrived at Miriam's presumption of guilt. They saw. They go on to say that the investigators ignored a series of leads, including a white pickup truck allegedly spotted on several occasions in the couple's neighborhood. Problem is, she's the only one who ever said she saw a white pickup truck. Nobody else did.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The greeting card debunks that. It ruins that argument anyway.

[James Petregallo]

It absolutely ruins it. The defense attorney also said that the two people unaccounted for, both dressed in black, were also seen in the area around 6am on the day of the murder. That never substantiated. He said it doesn't matter to them because they already had their suspect, so they didn't care. Meanwhile, they didn't arrest her for six fucking months.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

They're acting like they were coming to her house the next day to arrest her. This is a thorough investigation. Now, the defense has to acknowledge that Miriam showed horrible judgment by putting that card under her door. That was terrible judgment there. That was bad.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, that really fucked our whole case, to be honest.

[James Petregallo]

I get it, that that looks bad. But look at it this way, the defense says, look, we don't have to prove her innocent. All we need to do is show you reasonable doubt. There's no gun, no eyewitnesses, no confession. What are we talking about? You don't have a murder weapon, you have nothing. And so it's pretty strong. No, there was no motive because of the prenup. They said she didn't get a bunch of money from him. As a matter of fact, it fucked her. Cramped her whole lifestyle.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, and the fact that you've connected a bullet in the ground with a bullet in his head, what does that mean? That his ex wife did this, his widower did her?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Definitely not Sharon. We know. We know for a fact it's not her. Yeah. No direct evidence, no gunshot residue on her hands. Verified alibi receipts, cell tower pings, store surveillance, voicemails in her own voice. I mean, what are we talking about here again? Those are easy to set up an alibi, though. And they said he's also genuinely sick, so there is no Isolation or coercive control. It's just a sick man who didn't feel like talking on the phone. That's all it was the poisoning theory. They said there was no poison in his body. They even thought he was poisoned. But he wasn't. Everybody's got all these nefarious ideas about Miriam and look at her. She's fine. What are we talking about? Handwriting expert comes up and tells the jurors that Miriam's handwriting is likely present on eight of the 10 checks drawing off the bank accounts controlled by her late husband. The ones that he can say for sure. So she did a good job on two of them.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Them.

[James Petregallo]

The agent said that none of the 10 checks totaling just more than $36,000 were consistent with known samples of Allen's handwriting. And witnesses have testified that Allen was the only person authorized to sign on his personal checking account as well as an account he opened for Dance Junction where Miriam was the instructor. The checks ranging in amounts from 500 to $7,000. Or in some cases payable to Alan Helmick for cash and signed Alan C. Helmick, or purportedly signed by him and payable to Dance Junction or Miriam. So either to cash or to her or her studio. They bring her daughter in. Also the Portia Vigil. That's her last name at this point. And she says weeks after that Miriam took off and abandoned the home in Whitewater. She found a folded up prenup tucked away in a desk drawer. Part she said that she read it in court. Sections of the document, including a section addressing what should happen to property acquired after Allan and Miriam had married. And they said, you agree it does not ever say what should happen to things. And she said yes. And then she testified that Miriam told her in May 2008 that the couple's prenup allowed for her to take all the property that was acquired after their marriage. Because they didn't think she even got that. They were surprised. They said the document appeared handwritten by her father. Portia said. So the horse trainer Jerry testifies to all that crazy shit that she said to her. Including I didn't know the full tank wouldn't blow up. Like not even. I never knew that. I didn't know that. Like beforehand not I never knew it. And then found out after it happened. Happened just a weird way. Financial witnesses walking the jury through the forged checks, the money routed through the businesses back into her pocket. So just a big poster board up there showing all what she did. And that looks bad. Also the ballistics of finding the buried Bullet. They compare those. They show her that the digital trail, the searches for Ambien and Viagra and overdoses and poisons and all that shit. 180 plus queries, 39 driver's license images that spoke to she could disappear and get a new identify. And of course, the card. They even show the footage of her buying it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's hysterical.

[James Petregallo]

How do you not crack up laughing if you're on a fucking jury seeing that? Gotcha, bitch. So then Miriam testifies in her own behalf. She has to.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What are you gonna do?

[James Petregallo]

She looks terrible. She looks terrible. She completely changes her look. Big glasses and glasses and very plain dark pants and a modest sweater and a little gray in her hair. So she looks harmless, basically. By the way, one of the accounts in the media called her the scheming seductress.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Okay, okay, wow.

[James Petregallo]

Scheming seductress. And said that she was carefully costumed out of existence and replaced by a meek, bookish widow. Yeah, look at me. I'm meek.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Library woman isn't the sex whore that she is.

[James Petregallo]

Think I'm crazy for old man Orlando, dick. Hell no, I'm not. I'm just a good book away from a nice quiet evening with some tea, with some Darjeeling. So she denies she's did anything. She weeps. She recounts the story of how horrible it was to find Alan shot to death and come in the door and all that. So it's basically, do you believe her or not? Or do you believe the evidence? Your damn lying eyes. So the verdict. The jury takes five hours of interrogation of. Yeah, of. What am I talking about? Deliberations. Interrogation. Five hours of deliberations. That's pretty fast.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's quick.

[James Petregallo]

Especially with all the forgeries and everything else. She is found guilty of everything. Yeah, yeah, of everything. So sentencing comes around. Victim impact comes here. And Alan's daughter says that Miriam defiled and infiltrated a family before insulting the memory of their late mother by assuming her identity.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's not far off. That's pretty good.

[James Petregallo]

Get them, Portia. Yeah, Portia's got. She's on one here. She said, we're happy. She can't hurt anybody else. And she said, this is the end, thankfully. So the judge says, you, ma', am, may fuck off. Okay, now, mandatory life sentence, number one for the murder, mandatory life. So that's what she's got to begin with. Life without the possibility of parole.

[Jimmy Wisman]

By the way, she's going to be there forever.

[James Petregallo]

So there's that. Then they add on another shit because you have attempted murder, all sorts of counts that she's been found guilty of. Basically, they run everything consecutive to life without parole. So she ends up with you, ma', am, may fuck off. Life plus 108 years. That's a lot. That is a shitload.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That's impressive.

[James Petregallo]

That's impressive. That is really fucking.

[Jimmy Wisman]

If Jacksonville had any fucking balls, they could investigate and get her for another one.

[James Petregallo]

They probably could. She's also ordered to pay $521 in court costs. Okay. Seems like that would bounce right off you after you hear life +108. So, yeah, they said there was no discretion on the first degree murder without the possibility of parole. But the rest of them, she had some, you know, had some leeway and they decided to go consecutive and maxed out on everything. Awesome. So that's what they get. The fire investigator, this is the guy, Detective Sean Wells again. He said, I think if Alan would have let me speak with Miriam and continued to investigate, I believe I would have been able to. To charge her with the attempted arson. I think he would have accepted it once he saw the evidence I had compiled, and ultimately that would have saved his life.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I would have gotten him to leave her.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, Jesus Christ, you'd have to be like, dude, I don't care if I gotta show up in a parking lot and show you this shit.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She tried to blow you up in a Roadmaster, man.

[James Petregallo]

Does that mean anything to you? He also said about everything, about the whole case, he said, it does make me sad that it came to that. In our community, we're small towns. This just doesn't happen here. I think it doesn't happen. This is why we do small networks. People go, this doesn't happen.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This is the first time, James.

[James Petregallo]

First time. And I think it's only episode 709 doesn't happen here. And I think it made people realize it can happen anywhere.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You bet? Yes.

[James Petregallo]

If they haven't heard this show, then, yeah, for sure. She's sent to the Denver Women's Correctional Facility, a 984 bed institute housing women at every custody level where she is inmate number 148412. In case you want to write to her

[Jimmy Wisman]

sweet card. Oh, that's the question. She's done it. I mean, allegedly, over and over.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what I mean. She's a scary. It's scary, dude. It's scary. So on appeal, this is a direct appeal, she argued that the judge had wrongly admitted certain evidence and expert testimony. The judge who decided this said, although there were no other eyewitnesses to the murder or the attempted murder. The murder weapon was never found. The prosecution presented a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence of guilt. And that's the thing. You can be convicted on circumstantial evidence. And you can't, you can't just say you can appeal saying there wasn't enough evidence on direct, which is what they do. But they're not gonna just say, well, since there was no physical evidence, that means that. That means that you're overturning it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

No, that just means the prosecutor and the cops are going up a hill. That's all that means.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Yeah. They have to prove a shitload more if you have physical evidence. All the other stuff could not even really line up that well. But if you have none, everything else has to line up so perfectly. It's like a zipper closing. Like everything has to go around or else it's gonna be all crooked and mangled and it's just not gonna come down. And then you're gonna piss your pants, get your nuts. That's how it works. So this appeal's denied then. The next appeal is on a shoe print. Okay. She argued ineffective assistance of counsel, specifically that her trial lawyers should have called their own expert on the dust shoe print impressions collected at the scene, several of which were never matched to any. Anybody. This is a very so small. We didn't even bring it up in the case because it mattered none. So they said. The court's reasoning here was even with a defense shoe print expert, the evidence at the post conviction hearing didn't reveal anything materially new, which is what you need to have here. And there was no indication that the unmatched prints belonged to anyone other than people already accounted for at the scene. And they said, this is from the judge. The key point is that the evidence at the post conviction hearing did not reveal additional materially significant evidence regarding the dust shoe print impressions found at the murder scene. Okay, 20, 24, another appeal. Oh, okay. Now, she said this appeal adds, first its ineffective assistance of counsel of the first one. Now she's adding ineffective assistance of the last appeal counsel too, to this.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Oh, that last appeal.

[James Petregallo]

Throw that one in here too. On top of it. Everybody's fucking me. Panel here with the judges said that. Well, I'll just read the. This is Judge Gilbert Roman from the Colorado Court of Appeals. After a month long trial, a jury found Helmick guilty of first degree murder for shooting and killing her husband. Attempted first degree murder for previous attempt to kill her husband and 10 counts of forgery. The trial court sentenced her to life in prison without the possibility of parole and imposed additional sentences. And they said, this court reaffirms her convictions again. So that's it. They said that it raised claims that have already been decided and could have been raised earlier and are vague and without a factual basis, essentially. Okay. If she couldn't get to be more of an asshole.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's tough.

[James Petregallo]

Last year, 2025, she does a prison interview with 20 20.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Why'd they do that?

[James Petregallo]

I don't. Because they were doing the story, I think. I don't even know if they did it, but I don't know if they did the whole murder story or not, but I think they did. 2020, they want to interview her. And she described Alan as a very kind, very sweet man. He always had your best interest at heart. Usually. I don't know what that means.

[Jimmy Wisman]

She threw usually in there.

[James Petregallo]

So they gave her the car fire. They talked about the car fire. And she said, he came in saying his car was on. On fire. And he asked me to get water. And that's all I know about it. From there, that's it. Then she said, this is wild. She says, honestly, she thinks Allen set the fire himself for insurance money on a 14 year old Buick. What's the insurance on that?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Burned down his roadmaster for fucking eight grand.

[James Petregallo]

Eight grand for a 14 year old Buick? From the midnight, that thing was probably worth three grand.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, insurance wise. Yeah, you're probably right. Think of any shit?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, they don't care a blue book on that thing. Are you fucking kidding me? So she said, he said it himself for the insurance. That wasn't me. And blame the dead guy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That guy's an insurance fraud guy.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Yeah. It sounds like you're the guy who does that. You're the chick who does that. So she says that, quote, it won't be over for anybody until it's over for me. And I do have hopes. I know that I didn't kill him.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Him. What a crazy thing to say.

[James Petregallo]

And then she said, which is crazy. She talked about the fire and she said, quote, the thing about Allen, if he had thought I had done it, he'd have helped me pack a bag and put me on the i70. I don't think she means that. I don't think she means that, like helpfully. I think she means he'd have kicked my ass out.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah, he just sent me east.

[James Petregallo]

Need to set my ass. Yeah. Back to Florida, basically. Now the murder house still Is up still exists. And it is not for sale at the moment. It's a four bedroom, three bath, 3290 square foot house. A very nice house on 39 acres. And right now the zestimate on it is 960,200 bucks.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Awesome.

[James Petregallo]

By the way, it was built in 2003, so when they moved in, it was like brand new.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He built her a fucking house.

[James Petregallo]

House, essentially. Yeah. They. He bought a house right around the same time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

His wife died, he was built and then he. He bought it a year later.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah. Okay.

[James Petregallo]

So who knows if he was made the first. They might have been a brand fucking new house.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He may.

[James Petregallo]

He.

[Jimmy Wisman]

He may have had that house being built for him and his wife and then she.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe that's really possible. So there you go, everybody. Whitewater, Colorado.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Holy shit.

[James Petregallo]

This is fucking diabolical. And I know last week we had like the cereal poisoner and all that. Not that similar, but it was kind of like a different way to do that is what I was going for here. Like, that's poisoning and I'm a sweet old lady, you know, and this is like, I'll blow a motherfucker's head off and say I was getting Chinese food. It's just a different approach to everything.

[Jimmy Wisman]

I'll shoot this motherfucker and go get 4 for 10 at Victoria's Secret.

[James Petregallo]

That's it.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What a brie.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. What a. So there you go, everybody. If you enjoy this show, get on whatever app you're on. Give us five stars. It helps a ton. It helps drive you up the charts. Also, Netflix, give that thumbs up. That helps a shitload too. So thank everyone who does that for everything they do. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com everybody. What's there? Tons of stuff. First of all, all the merch you could possibly want for everything from coffee cups to skateboards. And on top of that, you also get the tickets for the Small Town Murder live shows.

[Jimmy Wisman]

And they're so.

[James Petregallo]

They're so goddamn fun. These tickets. Honestly, the tickets. She wants money for her ticket. I gotta give money for her ticket. Sorry. Eddie Murphy Raw lives Camille. Eddie Murphy Raw lives in our heads all the time. And it's everything we can do to constantly not reference it. So this is what you get so easy. So anyway, where was I? Yeah. Tickets for live shows. September 18th, Milwaukee at the. At the Pabst Theater. Great theater, great city and great shows too. Always there. Then the next night, we're at the State Theater in Minneapolis, which we love. Minneapolis. And you guys got to get your tickets though, because Milwaukee's beating you at this time.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Hurry up.

[James Petregallo]

You guys can't have that, right?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Flooded in.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You want the packers to beat the Vikings? Get your asses in there. Then we are September 3rd or October 3rd. I'm sorry. In Dallas. October 16th in San Jose, October 17th in Sacramento. Next month after that, November 13th in Tarrytown, November 14th in Boston. Get your tickets. Everybody get in there and come see us. We are very excited for it. It's shutupandgivemerder.com is where you get all of that stuff.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What else can they get?

[James Petregallo]

Oh my. You can follow on social media. We'reMallTownMurder on Instagram, SmallTownPod on Facebook. On top of that, they can get Patreon. Well, first too, they should listen to our other show as well, Crime in Sports, which you don't have to like sports, trust me. We're doing a multi part series on a murderous cult that had about maybe four minutes of sports in part one. That was it. And that was just to say he played for the Raiders. Now to murder. So try that out in your stupid opinions if you just want to laugh. It's the funniest goddamn show because it's about people's dumb reviews that they really think are important and we just make fun of everything. The thing they're reviewing them, everything. It's wonderful. We love it. Oh, it's the best show. So do that and then get yourself patreon. Patreon.com crimeinsports and that's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com crimeinsports that is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You get every goddamn thing we put out, every stitch of it, including as soon as you subscribe, you get hundreds, almost 400 back bonus episodes you've never heard before. And then you get new ones every other week. One Crime in sports and one Small Town Murder. This week, what you're gonna get for crime in Sports, we're gonna talk about hostage situations, which are fascinating to me after we did the Stockholm syndrome thing because it's a weird dynamic then for small Town Murder. Oh, I can't wait. Corey Richards part three.

[Jimmy Wisman]

What a pig.

[James Petregallo]

You might go. What more do we need to hear from her? Well, we need to hear all the stuff that we needed to hear before that never came out. And that's her kids kids saying exactly what she actually did that night, not what she told the cops, which is all bullshit. And having big things about what a terrible mother she is and how she made them eat uncooked lasagna. And then she does an allocution where she talks for a fucking hour in a crazy. It's crazy. You have to hear this shit and what an actual scumbag she is. And there's even more evidence that we found out that we didn't find out during the trial. Great stuff. Can't wait to do that. Patreon.com crimeinsport and you get every goddamn thing we put out. Ad free. Small town murder, your stupid opinions. Crime and sports all ad free. And you get a shout out, which is right now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the best fucking people in the world who would never try to set our cars on fire with a horse rope. Jimmy, hit me with them right fucking now.

[Jimmy Wisman]

This executive producer Gary Howard in Metropolis, Illinois. And happy hours in Texarkana.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Jesus.

[Jimmy Wisman]

The truckers are really in the worst places.

[James Petregallo]

They are hurting in the summertime Texarkana.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Fuck, man.

[James Petregallo]

Brutal, guys.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Other producers this week. Peyton Meadows, Scott Richard in Maricopa. Latasha Dickey. Nee Campbell is nee the former name. Is that what that means?

[James Petregallo]

N E, E. Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

That means formerly Campbell used to be.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy Wisman]

All right. Latasha. All right. Alexa. La grattaria. La grotteria.

[James Petregallo]

Sounds delicious. La Grotteria. I've eaten there many times.

[Jimmy Wisman]

It's delicious, the groteria.

[James Petregallo]

It's absolutely the best.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Sounds vile. Janice Hill. Garrett Wright. Happy birthday, Garrett.

[James Petregallo]

Hey, happy birthday.

[Jimmy Wisman]

You did it again. Don Brooks. Casey Boyce. Kristen Taylor, Jennifer McCormick Yergonski. Macy Wilson, Robert Hill, Aaron Beacon. And a Christina Acosta. Shoemaker. God damn it. Perhaps Schumacher.

[James Petregallo]

Four more names.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Let's get him get married again. Duke with no last name. Chantel Duchenne. Like Andy Dufresne.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yes. N E. Andy.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Jesse Demone. Aaron Witzel, Aaron Elliott. Nick with no last name. Erin with no last name. E, R, E, N. I think that's Erin. Aren perhaps Janae Riley. Victoria Chance. Bella Rive. Bellarive. Connie Hill. Karen Woods. Deke the Dude French. Deke French. He is the dude. Ronnie. Ronnie Brown. Kenny Russell, Brian Cargan. Cargan. Dv. This show brought to you by Domestic Violence. How about that? Rebecca Coon.

[James Petregallo]

That's what we're looking for.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Bobby Jo Lewis, Shawn Fried or Freed. Lorene Lorraine. Probably Singleton. Karen with no last name. C R Y, N A, R Y N. Yep. Ginger Juniper, Tina Manley, Sylvie Hush. Dave Bateman, Jennifer Williams, Katie Franceschki. Franceschi Francesi Brody with no last name. Victoria Ibrahimi. Charles Abraham Ibrahimi. It's Hemey. All right. Cozy Faber. Sincere. A. It's probably sincere. Sincere. Sincere. Oh, it's sincere. A slinger. Ass slinger.

[James Petregallo]

It's not Assure. Ass slinger. What's going on?

[Jimmy Wisman]

Wesley Brewer. Scott and Michelle Shreve. Pamela Pettit. Gretchen Beechler. Chasta. The milf. Chasta James. C, H, A, S, T, A. The Sta. That's Chasta. Kristen Davis. Not that one. Probably. Wait.

[James Petregallo]

Maybe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Maybe. No, it's with an E. We know Kristen Davis. That's why we ask. That's why I said it like that. Rachel Wright. Serenity Anderson. Amanda Curtis. Lauren. Laura Hanby. Punkin Terry. Gabrielle Caviello. Caviello. Cardine. Cardine. Cardin. Kerry Rogers. What is Cardin? Car. Pascal Craner. Lee Weisseninger. Weisinger. Weiss. Inger. Kayla Kim. Aero Chemo. Chimero. What? Ronica Bompas. This is fucked. Michael Dorsey. Acid base 32. Ryan Lundy. These are the worst this week. These are so hard. Natalie Ryan. Nope. With no last name. The Dixon family. Tamora Delisser. Delisser. All right. Robert Hayes. Gail with no last name. I read a word and look at it.

[James Petregallo]

There we go. All right.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Then I start counting letters. Kevin Ryan. Natasha. Dan. Jen Johnson. Jess Norton. William Sutton. Noya. G. Kitkat. Smile. Ashley with no last name. Do or do not. There is no. Try. Angela with no Last name. B. Dot. Marcil. Marcel Marsa. Would. Oh. Mersa. 2802. Gross. Why would you do that? Jamie with no last name. D. Prime. Charlotte. Charlotte Lyman. Lyman. Missy with no last name. Brooklyn Cole. Katie Delos De Los Santos. Leanne Scalia. Scalia. All right. Italic. Macaroon. Dakota Fireheer. Mad Cat. Town House. Molly Johns. Jesse with no last name. Kel made it. Shane Bowman. Diane Jones. Matthew Wells. Kate Smiley. Crystal. Crystal. Rc. Arce. Arce. Shay. W. Alex Rude. Erica Tarigny. Torini. Matthew Garrett. Justina. Justina Dawkins. Jasmine Scott Kendall with no last name. Dina Highland. Misty with no last name. Robert Charvat. Louise Tate. Louise Tate. Matt Montalvo. Brooke Belcher. Christy Adams. Kelly Criss. Willow Holkin. Sav. Savvy. Sav. Probably short served for Savannah with no last name. Johnny Boy. The Almond Boy. Stacy Hall. Q. Cat Rel. Ra. Uncut. Good for you. Religion. Scott Bluebaugh. Shelley with no last name. Kayla Reddinger. Reidinger. Samuel Penner. Ashley with no last name. Jamie Lynn McMullen. Sam Summerlin. Jennifer with no last name. Savannah Bacon. Aaron bars. Petra Slaughter. Vicki Naruzawitz. Narusiewicz. Yep. Jackie Ulaine Ortega. Kristin Houston Or Huston. Or Huston. Mia with no last name. Chloe Kane. Chloe Kane. D and J. DJ with no last name. Heather. What is this? Vogel White and nerdy Phil Doe with no last name. He's just a Phil Doe. And all of our patrons. You guys are the best.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much everybody. You fantastic, wonderful bastards. We appreciate all that you do for us every goddamn day and every night and every afternoon and every other time. You listen every moment. Thank you. Isn't this like a tea commercial or some sort of card commercial? A douche commercial maybe.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Every day feels like a tea that keeps you regular.

[James Petregallo]

It keeps you regular.

[Jimmy Wisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

There's like two women walking on the beach, a mother and a daughter. And she's like talking about her period and then not being regular. And then the tea comes up and it's great. So do that. Patreon.com CrimeAndSpace Again, thank you for doing all of that and keep coming back next week. You want to follow us on social media, shut upandgivemerder.com has every thing that you need there take you wherever you need to go. So that said, thank you so much everybody and until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Foreign. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states.

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