Murder Colors Don't Run - Jerome, Idaho

Summary

Small Town Murder Podcast: "Murder Colors Don't Run – Jerome, Idaho"

Episode Date: March 5, 2026
Hosts: James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman

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Overview of the Episode

This episode dives into the turbulent, violent, and tragic 1984 murder of Marilyn Arbaugh in rural Jerome, Idaho, by her estranged, obsessive ex-husband, rodeo cowboy Jamie "J.D." Charbonneau. The hosts break down the bizarre love affair, familial dysfunction, and the legal saga that unfolded over decades – including accusations, counter-accusations, a controversial conviction, a shocking release, and an almost-comical follow-up involving a crossbow. Interwoven throughout are the comedians’ irreverent takes and small-town observations, with an extra dollop of cowboy poetry and real-life absurdity.

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Episode Structure & Major Segments

[00:32] – Jerome, Idaho: Town Profile & Vibe

• The episode opens with a profile of Jerome: a small, rural, agricultural town with about 12,000 residents, known for its farming, marginal scenery, and lackluster entertainment.
• Notably, Jerome was the childhood home of Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue:

  "Jerome, Idaho might have been small, but it had a downtown with a J.C. Penney... If Jerome wasn't so boring, [Nikki Sixx] probably wouldn't have left — and, four Motley Crue, you know." (10:23, James)

• The hosts riff on small-town dynamics, surly online reviews, and local highlights like the county fair and rodeo.
• Town described as religious, conservative, with little diversity and speed traps.
• Notable for being “in the middle of nowhere, where you can’t even get Ludacris to come to your county fair” (23:32, James).

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[24:26] – Introduction to the Murder Case: J.D. Charbonneau

The Crossbow Incident (2016)

• The story launches in 2016 when J.D., now in his 50s, is found by police hiding in his ex-girlfriend’s closet with a crossbow. Each party calls 911 blaming the other — J.D. claiming being held hostage, victim claiming her stalker ex broke in.
• Sets up the central tale: “How is this guy at the center of so much mayhem?” (27:10, James)

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[28:01] – The Backstory: Marilyn Arbaugh & J.D.’s Chaotic Relationship

Early Life, Family, and a Chorus Line of Dysfunction

• Marilyn: single mother, rancher, waitress, tumultuous marriages, two daughters (Tiffany and Tyra).
• Meets J.D.: 10 years younger, hot-headed, itinerant rodeo cowboy, “handsome in a rugged way,” and immediately, "the chemistry is volatile."
• Marriage marred by violence, jealousy, mutual physical attacks, and small-town legal negligence.
• After a frying pan incident (literally), the local prosecutor (who is also Marilyn’s ex-brother-in-law) declines to press charges:

  "He ruled it 'mutual combat.' Marilyn admitted to hitting him with a frying pan in the head." (41:24, James)

Escalation

• Marilyn shoots J.D. after accusing him of molesting her daughter — charges are later dropped, since J.D. violated a no-contact order; their relationship continues.

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[53:00] – Events Leading to the Murder

Jealousy, Kidnapping, & Rape Allegations

• After their divorce, J.D. repeatedly stalks Marilyn; at one point, he kidnaps and sexually assaults her, then burns her car on his grandfather’s land. Warrant issued, but J.D. is on the lam, spinning wild stories to strangers.

The Fateful Day (July 1, 1984)

• Marilyn returns from a night out. As she checks on her horses, she is ambushed and shot multiple times outside a barn.
• Her teenage daughters, Tiffany and Tyra, witness the chaos—running toward gunfire with their mother’s pistol, hiding, and eventually discovering their mother’s body.

Scene Description (72:02, James)

"She runs out of the barn, finds her mother sitting on the ground, blood on her. J.D. Charbonneau standing close, pointing the Remington at Marilyn..."
"Tiffany tells him, 'Get out of here, I’m gonna call the police.'"
"When police arrive, Marilyn is dead, struck by at least 15 bullets; evidence of a 'sustained barrage' over several minutes."

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[85:35] – Legal Saga: Trials, Tall Tales & Jailhouse Cowboy Poetry

J.D.'s Absurd Defense

• Claims self-defense: Marilyn threatened him with the rifle, daughters shot her “cold-blooded.” Unconvincing — medical evidence shows she was shot repeatedly while trying to escape.
• Lurid attempts to shift blame, including blaming 16-year-old Tiffany, interleaved with melodramatic statements.

  “I had no choice, she was gonna shoot me!” (92:59, James as J.D.)

Defense Shenanigans

• J.D.'s first lawyer (Goldie) incorporates the results of his niece’s séance with the victim into the defense theory:

  "A séance in California — Marilyn indicated she forgave her daughter for firing the final shots..." (110:47, James)

Courtroom & Community Drama

• Small-town politics and conflict of interest (prosecutor is Marilyn’s ex-brother-in-law).
• Trial is moved due to publicity, evidence handling is a mess (notably, a missing shell casing).
• Defense floats wild theories; ultimately, J.D. is convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to death (later reduced to life without parole).

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[153:10] – Weird Family Aftermath & Prison Cowboy Poetry

• The story takes further odd turns:
  • Marilyn’s daughter Tyra marries J.D.’s half-brother.
  • J.D. becomes a prolific composer of “cowboy poetry” in prison.
  • His mother changes her name repeatedly, leads letter-writing campaigns insisting on his innocence (“He loved her, that’s all!”).
• Poems are described as “not bad as cowboy poetry goes, but let’s be honest, none of it’s Shakespeare…” (156:09, James).
• J.D.’s legal saga continues for decades, appealing and firing lawyers, including for “clairvoyance incompetence.”

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[174:05 / 2011–2017] – Appeal, "The Tyra Letter," & New Legal Drama

• Years later, a supposed recantation letter from Tyra surfaces, claiming police manipulation and alternate versions of events — its authenticity is hotly disputed.
• Initially, this wins J.D. a new trial and his release on bond in 2015 (after 31 years).

  "It’s quite an adjustment to be released after 31 years…has to learn how to drive again. Here’s an iPhone, good luck, you piece of shit.” (176:41, James)

• Nine months later, J.D. is back in trouble; caught in his new girlfriend’s closet with a crossbow, he once again tries to claim he was the victim.

  "He hides in a closet with a crossbow then calls 911 himself, blaming the woman. Damn near word-for-word the last time." (177:49, James)

• The Idaho Supreme Court reverses his new trial—letter is ruled immaterial and full of contradictions. Conviction reinstated, life without parole, plus 25 years for the second assault.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Red Flags in Relationships:

  “If she has a pistol with a man’s name that she calls it, watch out.” (128:32, James)

• On the Law:

  “Mutual combat? That’s not two adults agreeing to fight behind a bar, that’s domestic violence.” (42:12, James)

• On Defense Lawyering:

  “If your defense strategy involves a séance, time to get a new lawyer.” (111:03, James)

• On Small Town Fairs:

  “If you can’t get Ludacris to the county fair, you oughta be safer than this.” (24:01, Jimmy)

• On Cowboy Poetry:

  “As a matter of fact, when you say cowboy poetry, I expect the worst.” (156:09, James)

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Key Timestamps (MM:SS)

• 00:32–24:25: Jerome, Idaho overview; small-town comedy, history, color.
• 24:26–28:01: Intro to J.D. Charbonneau’s crossbow incident, 2016.
• 28:01–53:00: The backstory: Marilyn and J.D.’s toxic, violent relationship.
• 53:00–73:36: The spiral: kidnapping, stalking, rape charges, murder sequence, daughters’ harrowing experience.
• 73:36–85:35: Crime scene, autopsy, evidence, and law enforcement findings.
• 85:35–131:31: The trial: wild defense, missing evidence, séance defense. Conviction and sentencing.
• 131:31–153:10: Post-trial, appeals, family weirdness, rise of prison cowboy poetry.
• 153:10–174:53: New legal drama, "the Tyra letter," and temporary release.
• 174:53–183:44: Conviction reinstated, second violent incident, final legal outcome.

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Memorable/Absurd Moments

• J.D.’s lawyer uses testimony from a séance at trial (110:47).
• The revolving door of names assumed by J.D.’s mother: Misty, Bessie, Betsy, Misty Hamilton, Misty McKeel (multiple instances).
• Community letters to the editor both defending and blasting J.D., revealing small-town polarization (98:36–101:12).
• Cowboys & guns: Multiple shootings, all handled with a mind-bending lack of law enforcement urgency.
• J.D. launches a sideline in “cowboy poetry” while in prison:

  “They say that he writes about wide open spaces and the myth of the West. … It has a sense of movement that carries the reader from image to image and situation to situation.” (156:22, James)

• Crossbow-in-the-closet is a joke come to life (“He once again tries to claim he was the victim,” 177:56).
• The legal case that simply will not die, cycling through lawyers, appeals, and wild alternate theories for nearly 40 years.

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Tone & Style

• Irreverent, conversational, and darkly comic.
• Hosts riff on every absurdity — from cowboy romance to mutual combat laws, incompetent legal defense, and “mythic” local personalities.
• Strongly critical of institutional failures, always with an edge of gallows humor, but respectful of the tragedy and its impact on the victims’ family.

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Episode Takeaway

An absolutely wild small-town true crime saga — toxic love, repeated legal bungling, weird family entwining, a parade of legal/institutional absurdities, and a killer with a penchant for hiding (in barns, in closets, and behind cowboy poetry). The case is equal parts tragedy, farce, and gothic Americana, told with relentless comedic observation and scathing small-town commentary.

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For more wild stories and dark comedy, visit shutupandgivememurder.com and follow Small Town Murder on your podcast platform of choice!

Transcript

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Producer/Announcer]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

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[Producer/Announcer]

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[James Petregallo]

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[Producer/Announcer]

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[James Petregallo]

This week in Jerome, Idaho, after a woman finds an ex boyfriend hiding in her closet with a crossbow, his entire story comes out, including a crazy murder where he tried to blame a very unlikely person, decades in prison and even a book of cowboy poetry. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Foreign. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Sounds. Murder sounds like. Wow. This is a crazy one that we have for you today. Before we get to that though, definitely get your tickets coming up very soon. Is it this weekend? I think March 6th, Durham, North Carolina Carolina Theater. March 7th, Atlanta at the Tabernacle. Get your tickets.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's gonna be crazy.

[James Petregallo]

And get in there. We're gonna have a blast. We have a wild story to tell. You can't wait to do it. So shutupandgivemerder.com is where you get all of that and anything else you want to get. Also pick up your you stupid opinions. Phoenix tickets for March 21 as well at Standup Live and then the rest of the year. Also Denver, Royal Oak, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown and of course Boston. Those are the ones that aren't sold out. So get in there and get your tickets right now. Also definitely listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and you'd stupid opinions which you're gonna love. And in addition to that, get yourself Patreon. What are you waiting for? Patreon.com CrimeInSports Just like the name of that show we just told you. That is where you get everything. All the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You get so much, first of all, so much. As soon as you subscribe you get a huge back catalog of hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. And you get them all. Just everything that we have. You get everything. And in addition to that, you also get everything we put out. Crime and sports, your stupid opinions, all the small town murders. All ad free as well with your Patreon. Not too bad. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. So you can't beat it. Honestly, it's the best value you can get for your $5. Do that. Patreon.com CrimeInSports that said, Disclaimer time. This is a comedy show, everybody. It's a comedy show. We are comedians. Jokes are going to happen. People are definitely going to die. Otherwise, very poorly named show. What would that be though, if there was no murder? So there's definitely going to be murder. And you go, well, how does that work? How do you make that funny? Very easily here. That's the. Very easily. First of all, we don't make fun of the victims or the victims families.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why's that, James?

[James Petregallo]

Because we're assholes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But.

[James Petregallo]

But we're not scumbags. See how that works? Yeah, it's very, very easy to do. And on top of that, there's plenty to make fun of. You can make fun of a small town because we're all from somewhere that deserves to be made fun of. Who cares? It's all in good fun. We can make fun of a police force that like, doesn't do their job well and lets a murderer go free and kills more people. I think that's worthy of mockery. And we can make fun of murderers because sure, fuck em. That's why. Fuck em, that's right. How dare they? They're out here murdering. They want us to be nice to them. No, we're gonna make fun of them, but what we don't do is that. So I think it's a good time. If you think true crime and comedy though, should never ever go together. Might not be the show for you, but it might be. That's the thing. I think you should give it a chance, see how it goes. No complaining later though. Tell you what, that said, I think it's time everybody. What do you say? Let's all sit back here. Let's all clear the lungs here. I'm going to clear that Nashville out of my lungs that I was stuck in for so long here. And let's all shout shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[Producer/Announcer]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Let's do it.

[James Petregallo]

We are going to Idaho this week. Oh, yeah. Jerome, Idaho. Where's that guy named Jerome? Southern Idaho, kind of Southern central area there. South. South Central Idaho. It's about an hour and 45 to Boise. It's about 9 hours and 50 minutes to our last Idaho episode, which was Bonner's Ferry. So you can drive for 10 hours and still be in Idaho. Yeah, that's a long.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That motherfucker's long.

[James Petregallo]

Long. Yeah. That's all the Way up Bonner's Ferry, Idaho is episode 640, which was killer Adjustment. Remember that was the chiropractors. And that was a hilarious episode. Oh, weird old against him, Right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Chiropractor war with each other. That was insane. That was one of the weirdest episodes. This is in Jerome County. Jerome in Jerome. Area code 208. It's not a big town. It's about five and a half square miles. So not a big place. By the way, this is 3,700ft of elevation as well. So it's pretty. Yeah. Sitting up there pretty high.

[Producer/Announcer]

It gets rocky up there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's near Wyoming. Fuck, it's all mountains up there.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. From there now, a little bit of history here. Kind of. Obviously there was a lot of tribes here to begin with and that sort of thing. Different ones. And the first people that came from the east were fur trappers that came here, obviously. And there was an old Indian trail that crossed. This is basically part of the Oregon Trail, type of little branch off of it. But the terrain around here is pretty rocky and pretty crappy. So nobody ever stopped. They just kept going. They just kind of didn't do anything with it. So that was that. But then in about 1900, early 1900s, people started staying here. And it was officially established, Jerome, in 1907, just as a planned railroad settlement. That's all it was. Yeah. It wasn't supposed. It wasn't a naturally occurring town. The railroad.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just a quick break.

[James Petregallo]

Perfect. This is where we need to have a spot here. And they wanted to have an irrigation project there as well. Yeah, there's that kind of thing on. In October 1908, ground was broken, beginning the construction of a big hotel. It was the north side Inn. It was real dramatic and it was like. It's beautiful too. It was a really interesting picture. Beautiful structure. And it was the only thing there like that. This was like a bunch of makeshift structures and a little railroad settlement and then this like fine hotel in the middle of everything, which was real weird looking here nowadays. Jerome's economy is mainly from the farms and the dairies. Dairy farming became a huge source of revenue. Yeah, it's not so much potatoes anymore. It's. Who knew dairy farming. Now this isn't far from where Evel Knievel did the. Well, attempted the Snake river jump. Yeah. Which we talked about. We did a 10 part Evel Knievel episode on crime and sports. So talked about that. A lot notable people here. This is where, if you've ever read Nikki six from Motley Crue. He's got a couple of books. And actually a good writer actually too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

In kind of his book.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not much of a reader, but I've read that one.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. There you go. This is the town that he kind of grew up in where he got sent with his grandmother. Remember he talked about being in a shitty little small town? This is said shitty little small town. Here's some quotes from Nikki Sixx here about this place. Quote, Jerome, Idaho might have been small, but it had a downtown with a J.C. penney, a Western Auto, a Dairy Queen and a couple of drugstores. How about howdy. My friend Alan's grandmother worked at McCleary's which had a real old fashioned soda fountain with circular stools and half moon crescent counter, most of whatever you needed. They stocked clothes, tools, magazines, dime store novels. They even sold records.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hey, how about that?

[James Petregallo]

He said, I wouldn't know how in the hell Motley Crue would have formed in a town of 4,000 people. I was going to end up working on a farm. That's what I was going to do. That was my destiny. And I would have been the biggest rock fan on earth and had the biggest vinyl collection of anybody in Jerome, Idaho.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Imagine that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So if Jerome wasn't big old hair

[Jimmy Whisman]

tilling the fields, well, if it wasn't

[James Petregallo]

so boring, he probably wouldn't have left. And four, Motley Crue, you know, so the boring small town does push people out into things that they need to do.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pushes creativity, man.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Here's some reviews here. This place has 3.3 stars on niche, which is not good. Not good. It's not good at all. Here's four stars. Jerome is a small town. We're aware of that. That's why it's on. Small town murder. Everyone knows each other. The community is very good at sponsoring school functions and sports. The people here are very caring and donate a lot to their community. I'm very grateful. I've been raised in a small town because it's taught me a lot. I've learned that you should keep good friends close and family is important. Okay, here's three stars. I like that it's very quiet and nothing really happens.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I love that.

[James Petregallo]

I love that nothing happens. I would definitely like to see more people expressing themselves and their opinions, which is the opposite of my view. I would like to see less people expressing themselves and their opinions. That's my opinion that no one else wants to hear

[Jimmy Whisman]

also. He wouldn't appreciate that. No, this. This person just wants an Echo Jam.

[James Petregallo]

That's. Yeah, yeah. I want people to talk.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He doesn't want anything differing.

[James Petregallo]

Here's two stars. Not a bad place to be if you don't mind the country lifestyle. No movie theater. Not much for outdoor activities. Restaurants suck. But at least you can enjoy being away from the hustle and bustle. So there's nothing to do and everything sucks. But at least you're not in a damn city. Like, okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And the food's terrible.

[James Petregallo]

Well, here is the last line, which is my favorite. Honestly, I hate it. But I can see why some might enjoy it. Honestly, for me, it's terrible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For me, this is the worst. But some people enjoy it.

[James Petregallo]

Here's two stars. And this could really be a town review for basically any town in America outside of San Diego. Quote, you just can't predict the weather. It could be sunny, then turn into a windy day. Wind just comes. Wow, that's so weird. I've never lived anywhere where it gets windy sometimes. Have you? That's real weird.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you could predict the weather, you wouldn't have weathermen, that's for sure.

[James Petregallo]

No, and that happens. Wind comes from another place. It's just how it works. One star. They ticket out of state license plates for passing through. I would absolutely avoid driving through or stopping here. The judge will act as a state prosecutor and waste your day if you try to fight it. I would try. Stay away and try to find other routes or other places to stop. You think this guy got a ticket while passing through town and then went all the way back there to try to fight it? You think that's what happened? I think that's what happened.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the idea with those small towns. They're speed traps and they'll get. That's how they get the revenue. So they keep everything else low for the residents.

[James Petregallo]

We've ranted and raved about that in Texas for.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's never stopped for me. My anger stays here.

[James Petregallo]

I was going 77. Trust me. That's what the goddamn cruise control. $180 of my money, man. People in this town, 12,182. So it's about tripled since Nikki Sixx was there in 1974. In 50 years or so, more men than women, which in a town that's over 1,000 people. That usually means farm work or lumber or something like that's going on here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just lots of manual labor.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Median age here, 31, which is well below the national average. About 38 and a half. We got to be young to do that labor, too. Family here, this is about 50, 50 married. It's about average. A lot of people single with children also. So you're either married with kids or single with kids. But you got some kids.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Either way there's kids running around which

[James Petregallo]

if there's a farm, you kind of need kids. That's why you have them. It's a workforce you're putting in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You need youthful folks, but not in a seven year old on the combine.

[James Petregallo]

You got to put out a workforce. Seven year old can collect eggs or whatever while the 12 year old works the combine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Small hands can milk the teats.

[James Petregallo]

Well, at least the smaller cows, you know. Race here, 61.8% white, 0.1% black. Not a lot of black people in Jerome, Idaho. 3% Asian, 36.2% Hispanic. So 62.6% of the people here are religious. It's 50, 50 in the rest of the country. And the biggest one here, it was a horse race too.

[Producer/Announcer]

Oh really?

[James Petregallo]

It's a horse race, but it's Catholic actually somehow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Because of the Hispanic population. Because second is Mormon obviously is lds. So that's what they have there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And les community is certainly trying to get that. That.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, they're trying to recruit them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They're trying so hard.

[James Petregallo]

They're walking around the farms with their white shirts on going, excuse me, big families.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, excuse me. It's a lot of tithing around here. Yep.

[James Petregallo]

Unemployment rate is low here. It's about 3.8%. If you can get your ass out on the farm, there's something to do. Median household income also lower than the national average though, 54,535. It's about 15 grand less than the national average. But the cost of living here overall 100 is regular. Here it's 89. Okay, so it's a little bit low housing though. Median home costs 334,300 bucks. So not cheap.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, not a cheap. You said that's not that good.

[James Petregallo]

No, it's not cheap. And if we've convinced you, dammit, the only place you could possibly call home is Jerome, Idaho. Well, we got something for you. We have the Jerome Idaho real estate report. House number one is. Seems extremely overpriced in my opinion. It is a two bedroom, one bath, 740 square foot place.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a house, isn't it?

[James Petregallo]

It's a little box of a house. Yeah. It's not a trailer or anything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's a lot of those in Idaho.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, these little house built in 1940. This little tiny house, $219,000.

[Jimmy Whisman]

My Christ.

[James Petregallo]

No land. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Barely, you know, just the yard around your house. Yeah. Next up here is a three bedroom, two bath here. Oh, by the way, the two bedroom rental average here is about 1020, which is lower than the national average. That's good. This is a three bedroom, two bath. This is a nice two story house. Front porch with a couple of pillars. Nice walkway leading up to it. It's a nice house. Again, not a lot of land or anything like that inside. It could use a little updating, but it's not bad. It's pretty decent house. Built in 1916. That's cool too. Nice old house. $300,000 for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A little bit more, but worth it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, right? Yeah. But you really got to redo the inside. This is the one. I mix this one up with the next one. This is the one that literally has thick green shag carpeting in it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

God damn.

[James Petregallo]

Pink walls in some rooms like Formica looking. Counters like 50s look like. It looks like they redid it in like 73 and they were like perfect. And that's don't change a thing since then. Then the next house is the newer one. That's right. This is a 1978. It's built not new, but four bedroom, three bath, 3,875 square feet. It's just a big raised ranch. Just a big like long raised ranch. Looks pretty flat around it. Like it's not okay. Like your yard goes into like a farm field after that. But that's not your problem. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Very Napoleon Dynamite.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. Five and a half acre lot. 825,000 bucks for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Holy fuck.

[James Petregallo]

Little pricey to be up there. Then we'll add one more quick one. If you just want to buy some land here. 438 acres is on sale on north side Jerome. That's all it says. Northside Jerome. $11,350,000. It's been on Zillow for two years. So I think you could probably talk them down a drop maybe.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You may want to drop the price

[James Petregallo]

on that a little bit. Things to do here. Okay. We have the Jerome County Fair. Of course.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Of course.

[James Petregallo]

Got to have that. They have a bunch of car shit like demolition type stuff and car shows.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Idaho fucking loves a state fair.

[James Petregallo]

They loves. Yeah, they do. I think because there's a lot of rural places. So they like to gather.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And do something in a place. Because like they say, Jerome, not a lot going on here. Yeah. That kind of thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They do them well.

[James Petregallo]

I think they would have to. I Don't know. Let's talk about it. Maybe. We'll see. Let's do it while they do it. I'm not sure if you'll agree.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tell me.

[James Petregallo]

Here's they do the car shit. They do the prca. Pro rodeo. Yeah. Professional.

[Producer/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Rodeo cowboys, James. That's a real one.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, no. I know. Rodeo will come up in our story plenty, don't you? Oh, yeah. We got a rodeo guy here in the story. So there's some entertainment as well. Here's Alex. Alex Clark. I don't think so. They got different stuff. They have what you think and then what you would never think. It's a real weird lineup. Alex Clark, who's got Tuesday 6 and 8pm he's doing two shows a day here. Wow. Get ready for a wild display of stand up comedy and circus spectacle. Oh, boy. The picture of him is in like an alley, like jumping up with a bunch of tennis. Like he was juggling tennis balls and lost them. Or from juggling meat cleavers over a brave audience member to defying gravity atop a towering freestanding ladder. No ropes, no safety net. Alex masterfully balances it all while delivering mile a minute jokes just as sharp as his meat cleavers. You'll be gasping for air in both awe and laughter. This sounds like a nightmare. Sounds like he saw Penn and Teller and was like, I could do that but by myself. And not nearly as good as. But nearly as well. Just very poorly. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Get yourself a mu.

[James Petregallo]

Now. Yeah, you need one. Next up is Michael Mesmer who does magic. He is an Asian guy with a weird haircut and a crazy like weird leather jacket that looks like he's from the future. It has like purple sleeves with stripes on it and shit. I don't know. He looks like he came from space, this man.

[Producer/Announcer]

Oh, God.

[James Petregallo]

It's very strange. It says here he's named a top professional by the entertainment director of Universal Studios Studios and one of the world's top hypnotists by NBC tv. I don't know. That's interesting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can get Universal to tell they.

[James Petregallo]

They just name you a top professional. They tap you. You, sir, are a top professional. Not even by. By just by the entertainment director, the unnamed entertainment director of Universal Studios. It says. Yeah. He has for many years of outstanding performances in the fair industry throughout the US And Canada. He's a fair regular. The Rocky Mountain association of Fairs presented Michael with their entertainer of the year award. Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

There you go. He's a must see attraction worldwide. It says next up we got Carson Hasher.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

He's a fat guy in a cowboy hat with a guitar. Tell you what he does. He's a countryman. Yep. Singer, songwriter from southern Idaho. Wow. He's always sought after. The simple life. A piece of land, a smoking wife, a couple of kids and a bass boat. Of course you can get those things. Those aren't. Those are fine things to get, but those are acquirable.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Like a smoking wife. Like with a two pack habit. Or you want one that's less.

[James Petregallo]

Judging by the looks of him, I'm going to say he's hoping she's going to maybe change the two pack a day habit into maybe dipping pretty soon. Maybe get into some Copenhagen. But that's what I think. And then there is, quote, local community entertainment.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's all they got.

[James Petregallo]

That's what they got. Then they have canine demonstrations. Jerome High school dance team.

[Producer/Announcer]

Jesus.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, Christ. Something more. It says, which and then in parentheses. Rock music. Line dancing with the Jerome County Kickers. I think you're missing a word in there. The FFA Animal safety presentation. How to get a dog not to bite you. So that's how that goes. I found some older things from the Jerome County Fair, 2020. They had Joe Mama's car show and Ned Ledoux. I thought it was Neil. Ned Ledoux, whoever that is. Chris's brother. Yeah. And mud drag racing. And a hypnotist also, obviously. Gotta have that.

[Producer/Announcer]

This is crazy.

[James Petregallo]

This is a small town festival. That's not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Idaho's much better than that for state fairs. I do know that.

[James Petregallo]

I think Jerome's a pretty small county, though. I think you're right. Yeah. I don't think they're getting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nobody's coming.

[James Petregallo]

No. They don't even get one of the Ludicry to come.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right. You're not getting anybody with Ludacris.

[James Petregallo]

No. No crime rate in this town. What we're interested in here, property crime is just below the national average. Pretty goddamn close to it, though, to be living in the middle of nowhere. Then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about 20% below the national average. So. Safe, but not as safe as it should be. Should be safer to live in the middle of nowhere where you can't even get Ludacris to come to your county fair. You know, that said can't get pizza delivery. Or Ludicrous. Or Ludacris. What? If Ludacris would deliver your pizza now, you'd have something.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now I'm looking At that house. I'm looking at that land, to be honest. I'm gonna take a mortgage.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Big one. Delivered by Ludacri. Here he comes. One of them. The nice thing is there's so many Ludacri, you could send out 10, 12 of them at a time. Delivering pizzas, it's easy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ludacris Pizza. And every pizza is delivered by a Ludicrous.

[James Petregallo]

Everyone. That's him. That said, let's talk about some murder. What do you say?

[Producer/Announcer]

There we go.

[James Petregallo]

All right. This story is awesome. Not awesome in terms of. Obviously, it's terrible. It's terrible, but it's a crazy story. And this is one of those stories that. But when you find it, you go, how has this not been told 100,000 times?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Why does everybody know?

[James Petregallo]

How does everyone not know about this? Okay, let's start out February 15, 2016. So pretty recently. Very recently. 10 years ago. Yeah, 10 years. This is in Starr, Idaho. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

It's about 1:25 in the afternoon. There's a man named J.D. charbonneau. Yeah, Charbonneau, here. He's 56 years old, and he calls at 1:25pm Calls the Ada County Police dispatch and said he's been held hostage. He just escaped. He's out now. He's good now, but he said he'd been held hostage by a woman in the 12600 block of Bambrough street in a home. So he just escaped and he drove to a parking lot. It's nice that he had his car there, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's good. Yeah, that's good.

[James Petregallo]

And when I'm kidnapped, I go, can you grab my car, too? At least when I leave, so I have a place to. Thank you. It's nice. It's more convenient that way. He said he escaped from the house and drove to a parking lot at the intersection of West Chinden Boulevard and Linder Road, where he called the police. So the deputies came to talk to him. This is quite the tale, my friend.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Certainly. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And they might have believed him. But there's a problem.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What happened?

[James Petregallo]

The problem is five minutes before he called 911, a woman called 911, and she resides also in the 12600 block of West Gambrel Street. And she says, this guy named J.D. charbonneau, that I know, see, we used to date. We dated for a couple of months. I broke up with him and got a restraining order or filed for a protection order against him, which, by the way, is supposed to start. Be active tomorrow. On February 16th. And I came home and found this JD Charbonneau guy in my closet with a medieval crossbow. What? That's what he brought to the house.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And so he's now. Yes, he's getting out and ahead of this story saying, I'm not. She put me in the closet.

[James Petregallo]

The problem is she ran out of her home half naked and called the police first at a neighbor's house. He ran out and called and was like, this lady. She's a crazy lady. Kept me hostage. And they're like, weird. That's funny. There was a half naked lady saying, much different story than that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's heard that old adage that there's this side, that story, and then somewhere in the middle is the truth. And he's trying to just make that middle much softer.

[James Petregallo]

Skew it a little to one side, possibly. Wow. So we gotta find out more about this JD Charbonneau. He seems like a character.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Interesting.

[James Petregallo]

A scary character. You don't wanna. If there's a guy. You filed for an order of protection and you open your closet, that's what everyone is scared of. If you come home to your house, it's all empty and quiet, you think no one's there, and you go open your closet and there's a stranger in there. Terrifying. With a crossbow, and it's someone you know and someone you're scared enough to have an odor of. Protection filed against. That's terrifying. Uh. Oh. So let's go back in time to 1984. Okay. Gotta go back 32 years to figure this whole thing out. And actually, a little more than that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Charbonneau's in his 20s.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. At this point. Yeah. Yeah. He's in his mid-20s, so. Cause he was. Yeah, he was born in 1960. Yeah. So 1984. Let's talk about a completely different person here. Mary Jean Arbaugh. Okay. Or I'm sorry, Marilyn, not Mary. Why did I say Mary? I'm looking at it and I said wrong. Marilyn Jean Arbaugh. Okay. So Marilyn. Okay. She'll also have a last name of Charbonneau that we'll talk about.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, is that right?

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. Now, she's born September 9, 1947. Here. She's born in Wendell, Idaho. She's got parents named James and Mary Belle. James goes by Jim. He's Big Jim, the, you know, Idaho guy. And Maribel here. And Mary Belle, not Maribel. Two separate words. Hey, everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you the best way to get plants and Trees with fast growing trees fastgrowingtrees.com I know I love fast growing trees. The only place we get our plants and trees from. Did you know? Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have all the plants for your yard or home needs, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs and houseplants. All grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. It's like your local nursery, but anywhere you live it's fantastic. With more plants than you'll find anywhere. Whatever you're looking for, Fast Growing Trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate, space and lifestyle. Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get your dream yard. Just click, order and grow and get healthy, thriving plants delivered to your door. Their alive and thrive guarantee promises you that your plants arrive happy and healthy. No green thumb required. Just quality plants that you can count on. Plus ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them every step of the way. We love fast growing trees. Get them all the time. I've got a peach tree, got an apple tree.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

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[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to Tell you a much better way to feed your dog with Ollie.

[Producer/Announcer]

Ollie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

O L l I e.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

We love our dogs. Yeah, we love them. Let's be honest.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You just got a puppy, do anything

[James Petregallo]

for that puppy, you know what I mean? I have older dogs and bigger dogs and we got them like this nice, like dog bed so their hips feel good and all that. You'll do anything for your dog. You want them to be comfortable, you want them to be happy. If you're dog obsessed like we are, you gotta get Ollie, period. That's it. They're relentless about delivering the best food and experience for you and your dog. And they give you a way to check in on their health over and over again. It's fantastic. First of all, their recipes are amazing. Ollie's recipes are developed by real chefs and are vet nutritionist backed. And they really want to make the best meals with the highest quality ingredients. They look good. It looks delicious for me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Blueberries in it, carrots and peas.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'm trying to. They love it. Yeah. How do you not love it? I want to eat it, so why not? I feel bad though, because it's theirs, you know, I don't want to take it away. From the moment you start your subscription, everything is tailored right to your pup. They're perfectly portioned, these meals. You even get a little puptainer with the scoop for easy storing and serving. And with Ollie, you don't just get food through their app. You can actually check in on your dog's health with vets, real vets.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, wow.

[James Petregallo]

Just by uploading a picture. And their team can check on your dog's weight, digestion, teeth and coat because they're obsessed with making sure that your pup is as healthy as he can be or she can be. And we both feed our dogs Ollie. I have a couple of picky eaters and things like that. They love the Ollie though. I'll tell you, your puppy is growing Ollie strong right now as we speak.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Vaughn will eat anything, but he smells terribly. If I feed him the wrong thing. God, give him a dre. Just my word. Does he gobble this stuff up?

[James Petregallo]

He loves it. So get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to ollie.com STM tell them about your dog and use the code STM to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus they offer an obsession guarantee. If you're not completely obsessed, you'll get your money back. That's O l l I e.com STM and enter code STM to get 60% off your first box.

[Producer/Announcer]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

And apparently I saw that she had twin siblings die at birth in 1957.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, no.

[James Petregallo]

Which is interesting. They're both just listed. Yeah, they're both listed on Find a Grave as infant Arbo, February 23rd to February 23rd, 1957.

[Producer/Announcer]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. That's crazy. They have little gravestones and everything.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Terrible.

[James Petregallo]

Now, she was Married until about 1981. Marilyn here, she was married.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maribel or Marilyn.

[James Petregallo]

Marilyn the daughter, not the Marilyn the woman. We're talking about Marilyn Arbaugh Charbonneau here, she was married to a guy named John Adamson. John Adamson and her were married for about six years and they got divorced in 1981. Now, John Adamson has a brother. That will come up later, so we'll talk about that. Just remember the name Adamson. Okay?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, I won't forget.

[James Petregallo]

Now, she has two daughters from previous relationships. Marilyn does. They're not John's kids. They're from previous relationships. She's got by the 80s. She's a single mother with these two daughters. Two teenage daughters. Her one daughter, Tiffany. T, I, F, F, N, I, E. Tiffany.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yep, yep. That's not Tiffany.

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no, no, no. Tiffany is born, I don't know, 1968. Tiffany. Tiffany. She named her kid. Okay. Yeah. I was like, wow, that is terrible name. That is very rural.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Whoops a daisy. Yeah, she left. Nobody told you?

[James Petregallo]

No. Yeah. You're missing out on it. And then the other daughter, I don't know if it's Tyra or Tira. Now, the name. She's born in 1970, so I don't know if the name Tyra was around that much. I didn't hear Tyranny.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It might be Tyra, though.

[James Petregallo]

It might be Tyra. T, I, R A. Who knows? It could have been a different name. That she is just wrong because Tiffany isn't. Yeah. How did.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Eileen Wuornos is Wiernos. Why did I do that? Her girlfriend's name was Tyla.

[James Petregallo]

Tyla. This is Tyla.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tyla, Not Tyra.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, this is Tyra. So we'll call her Tyra. She's born in 1970. Now, by the 80s, by 1984, they were all living in a rented ranch property outside Jerome here, where mom Marilyn keeps horses and tends to horses. Now she's a waitress at the Butte Cafe. That's where she works. All right. Now that's a bar, restaurant type place. July of 1982, she meets herself a new man. She's a year divorced. She meets a man named Jamie Dean Charbonneau.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You betcha.

[James Petregallo]

I know him as old J.D. charbonneau here. Now, she is about 10 years older than him, almost 11 years older than him. But, man, do they hit it off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You bet.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah. And it's one of those relationships that's made in the stars. He's a rodeo cowboy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I was just gonna tell you that is a cowboy. I've ever heard one.

[James Petregallo]

I mean, he's a rodeo cowboy. She's like a rural truck stop waitress or bar waitress, saloon waitress.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The black coffee.

[James Petregallo]

This is. Yeah, both of their breath. It's made in heaven and Marlboro's. You can just feel it. You know what I mean? So Jamie Dean, by the way, his name, Holy Jesus, is spelled a lot of different ways when you're researching a guy like this. It is brutal because you have to research four different names the same way. Okay, now, the way you see it spelled a lot is J, A, I, M, I. That's the way he spells it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

Later on when he publishes something, that's the name he's gonna publish it under, Jamie. Like that Dean Charbonneau. Now, it's also spelled J A, I, M, E in the newspaper a lot and in court documents as well. And it's also J A, M, I, E and other things. And then sometimes he's just called J.D. so this guy was really as hard as he is in real life to track down and figure out. He is hard and slippery to figure out in the newspaper archives. Brutal. So, yeah, he's 24 in 1984. So he's about 22 when they meet in July of 82. And boy, do they hit it off, man. I'll tell you what, he is a rodeo guy. He is a rodeo cowboy, participates in rodeos. He's a real. He's a tough son of a bitch known as a kind. A kind sort of cuss is where he is. That's right. He wore crazy Western shirts with fucking. With the decorative flap in the back and the bolo tie. I mean, he looks like. It's central casting. He looks like Taggart from Blazing Saddles. You know, like Slim Pickens. He looks like. That's how he dresses. It's wild. What do you see when he wears to court? Oh, my God. Okay.

[Producer/Announcer]

He wore it to court.

[James Petregallo]

Tell you later. So he's kind of a handsome guy. And he's like that in that handsome kind of cowboy way. He's a rugged guy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Rugged cowboys get ladies Man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Especially up there where they don't mind a little dirt on the floor if you're coming from the field. So especially. She's a horse person. Think about. He's a rodeo guy. She's a horse person and kind of known as a drifter. He's known as a guy. He is. He'll drift where the rodeo goes. Once a little instability, he can shoe a horse, no problem. He's one of those kind of guys. So 1983, they get married. The attraction is just too strong. Obviously. Can't keep away from this. So they get married. And her friends say that he's kind of macho, like, when it comes to being possessive of Marilyn, which. He's kind of a cowboy kind of a guy. Like, he'll tell everybody. I don't know if you know it or not, but I'm Marilyn's husband. Like, he'll tell him. Like, oh. Almost like, it's like on Intro. Yeah, yeah. Not like, hi, I'm Marilyn's husband. I don't know if you know it or not. Like, I know that you're trying to finger her a minute ago, even though you're just saying hello, but I'm her husband, so watch out. Like, it's that kind of shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In case you ain't heard.

[James Petregallo]

In case you ain't. Which, I mean, that also comes with being young sometimes.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

When you're 22, you have a weird energy for, like, jealousy and possessiveness that you just don't have in your 40s.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It should dissolve prior to 30, but sometimes it doesn't.

[James Petregallo]

By 35, should be. It's over. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You should be humbled. Long. So many times.

[James Petregallo]

So many times. Yeah. By 45, it's like, hey, can you keep it down the neighbor? Because I'm. Yeah, this is on right now. The game's on. Please, just.

[Jimmy Whisman]

If you're gonna stick around, I appreciate it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just enough with the moaning.

[James Petregallo]

Just let me know. Yeah, just stop saying you hit it

[Jimmy Whisman]

better than my husband. Stop saying that.

[James Petregallo]

Could you keep that part down? It's distracting.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He never hits me there.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So Marilyn here, she's got some. The two of them have a volatility to them. Oh, boy. I don't know if they jealousy too much time around them wild horses or what. It's just rubbed off on them. But she at one point. This is crazy. She went with her father, James, to the prosecutor, the county prosecutor, whose name is Dan Adamson. Does that sound familiar?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, hey, I remember that guy.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's John's brother, that's her ex husband's brother, is the county prosecutor. This is all. Wow, this thing is all intertwined. Small town shit here. So she went to press charges against JD for domestic violence. Adamson declined it. He said, I won't press charges because he ruled it, quote, mutual combat. Mutual combat because Marilyn admitted to him in the whole story that she hit JD With a frying pan in the

[Jimmy Whisman]

head first or in retaliation, it doesn't matter.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what he said, though. He was like, well, I mean, once you hit him with a frying pan, I think you're all even up now. Right? Did it have his breakfast in it? Let me ask you this. Did it have his breakfast? Well, I think a frying pan to the head and his eggs on the floor is plenty. I think it's all solved now. That's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He scrambled his eggs and scrambled his eggs.

[James Petregallo]

I think everybody goes to jail right, in that situation instead of nobody.

[Producer/Announcer]

The legal term of mutual combat.

[James Petregallo]

Mutual combat. Well, there is something called mutual combat, but that's like. Like if you're like two people out that are adults and you're like, both agreeing to fight and all that. There's states that have mutual combat laws, but it's not at home between a husband and wife.

[Producer/Announcer]

Yeah, right.

[James Petregallo]

That's not the laws. That's called domestic violence. That's not two guys in a parking lot that agreed to settle their differences.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Mutual combat should be drawn at the line of same gender. The second that a lady's involved with the dude.

[Producer/Announcer]

That's just domestic violence.

[James Petregallo]

And also a weapon is involved once a frying pan's in the mix. I don't think mutual combat. You can't pick up up a 2x4 and whack the guy with it. I think this is. We're talking fisticuffs at that point. Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll go one step further, James, and say even if he loses the battle against her, he still goes to jail.

[James Petregallo]

Well, she should do they both go to jail? You can't hit people with a fucking frying pan.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, there's that too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, but I mean, you know, I mean, if he hit you first, I guess you can hit him with the frying pan. That's what I mean. We don't know the details, but if it was like, I don't know, if she hit him with a frying pan and then he whacked her back, what is that? They should both go to jail at that point?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, if she instigates it for sure.

[James Petregallo]

If she's returning fire. I guess it's okay. Especially cause he's like a rodeo cowboy. Like he's a pretty rugged cat. It's not like she's fighting. Right.

[Producer/Announcer]

That guy wrestles twelve hundred pounds, eighty

[James Petregallo]

year old man, ten years younger than mammals.

[Producer/Announcer]

That's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

So someone should be going to jail, but he said, nah, it's mutual. You got him, Y' all are even.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, I don't like the phrase mutual combat when it comes to domestic violence at all.

[James Petregallo]

No, it's mutual combat. It's not mutual combat. Man and wife in the kitchen is not mutual combat with fucking bacon all over the house. Because that's crazy. August 3, 1983. This is in Shoshone, Idaho. Jamie's in his truck. J.D. and Marilyn walks up. Jesus Christ. With a.22 caliber pistol and unloads it into the side of his vehicle. Just those go through that empties the clip into the side. The bullets hit him in the right elbow and leg. Yes, yes. She is charged with aggravated assault for that. That's not me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The charges in this town are crazy, James. That's attempted murder.

[James Petregallo]

That's. Nope. Aggravated assault. I mean, it was a.22, you know, I mean, she could, she could have got a bigger gun if she really wanted to hurt him. I think that's honestly what we're talking about.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Square body Chevy. Those Generals. Stop those.

[Producer/Announcer]

That's just.

[James Petregallo]

We know. Yeah. She expected the door panels to keep them bullets. I don't think this is really that bad.

[Producer/Announcer]

The fuck is happening.

[James Petregallo]

So she did this. One of the bullets remained lodged in his elbow forever because the doctors feared removing it would make him. Cost him the use of his arm. It would fuck everything up because it was splintered a little bit. So they said, just leave it. So he's gonna have a.22 slug in his arm forever. So according to reports of why she shot him. This makes a lot of sense. She alleged, and we don't know the veracity behind it, but the allegation and the reason why we don't know the veracity of it because it was never brought to court. Because charges are real nebulous in this town. She alleged that he tried to sexually abuse her 13 year old, who was Tyra at this point. So we don't know what happened here. Now, this was denied by both the daughters under oath at a later date that he ever molested them. They both said it didn't happen. But she said, well, I shot him because he went after my 13 year old, which would be reasonable. But I guess you can't really arrest him for that. If the kid says that didn't happen, then it just looks like she's making an excuse for shooting him. We're not sure. And it's 1983. There's no way to really figure it out at this point. Either way, shit is crazy in this relationship.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's past the point, way past the point of time to break up this family.

[James Petregallo]

He hits her, she hits him with a frying pan. They're still together. She thinks that he's molesting the kid, shoots him multiple times. They still stay together after that, even though it's crazy. So the assault charges against her for shooting him were later dropped because this is the wildest shit at the time. She had a no contact order against him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, he shouldn't have been there.

[James Petregallo]

Technically violated the no contact order. So it was like, well, you got what you deserved. So they dropped the charges. You're allowed to shoot someone who comes near. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Regardless of the allegations of child molestation, he's here and shouldn't be. So she just returned fire.

[James Petregallo]

Just fire away, my friend.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sometimes fire is returned without any fire volley in the first place.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, no. Yeah. And then such a presence is fire volley. She didn't even have to break out the molester molestation card because she has.

[Producer/Announcer]

Who cares?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He shouldn't have been there.

[James Petregallo]

He shouldn't have been there. The Lincoln county prosecutor, Doug Rose, had told Charbonneau to stay away, and he didn't. So he got what he wanted. But she kept coming back to him. He kept coming back to her. As soon as he got out of the hospital, they were back together again, all stitched up with a bullet in his arm.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fiery sex. Is that it?

[James Petregallo]

It has to be. It has to be. It has to be. Think about it like, fiery, like Johnny Walker Red fueled. Stinky sex.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She does that thing on the tip of his dick that nobody else does,

[James Petregallo]

that no one does. And, yeah, that's it. I mean, it's gotta be two pairs of boots on the floor, waiting. So now Tyra, or Tyra said that she had heard during this time period, JD threatened to kill her mother if he ever caught her with another man. Which in this relationship, that seems implied. Right. Like the way they go at it together. I feel like death threats are kind of implied.

[Producer/Announcer]

Feels like that's mutual combat.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. At that point, both sides.

[Producer/Announcer]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

JD's mom, who, by the way, in a ton of different press reports, has five different names.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

Which is wild. I've seen her as Misty. I've seen her as Betsy. I've seen her as Bessie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, you don't mean different names. You mean different first names.

[James Petregallo]

Completely different first names.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not the same name even. Close.

[James Petregallo]

Even last name's different. So that she could have got married. Okay. Over the years. Because this is gonna drag on. But first names. Pick one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's amazing.

[James Petregallo]

She said this is her summation of their relationship. Quote, they loved a lot. They fought a lot. They laughed a lot, they cried a lot. Yeah. That's called a terrible relationship. Toxic as fuck.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She's trying to make picture frames. Cause that's four James. That goes around the edges of any picture frames.

[James Petregallo]

That's cowboy poetry right there. She's trying to produce. They love bart. Tiffany in 1984, Tiffany has a boyfriend named Bart. Of course his name is Bart. Why not again? Blazing Saddles. Bart was his name. Who lived at the house on and off. He'd just come and go with the family. With the family. She's 16, by the way.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, perfect.

[James Petregallo]

So this whole thing is perfect. Wow. This is like one big boiling pot of rice. A Roni. That's just not good. You put too much butter in and it's gonna overflow. It's a lot. Now, June 13, 1984, they get a divorce.

[Producer/Announcer]

Who? JD.

[James Petregallo]

JD in. Marilyn actually get a divorce? Yeah, they do get a divorce. Marilyn goes back to using Arbaugh, her maiden name and everything like that. But even after their divorce, he would still introduce himself as her husband whenever that kind of thing went on. So I don't know if you know it, but I'm Marilyn's husband now. June 21, 1984. Yeah, this is wild. Okay. This is eight days after the divorce was finalized. Just happened. Marilyn is finishing her shift at the Butte Cafe, eating a taco salad, which I'm sure is lovely, in an Idaho Bar in 1984.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bet it's still the best fucking one. Best thing on the menu, for sure.

[James Petregallo]

It is. Can of chili, if that. Can of chili on. I'm assuming iceberg, I think they're going to go with probably, which is fine.

[Producer/Announcer]

Oh, you think there's a spring mix anywhere near?

[James Petregallo]

No, no, no, no. That's me. There's no. There isn't a shred of a fucking leaf of arugula within 100 miles of this joint.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No romaine even?

[James Petregallo]

Nothing like that? No, no. And I'm wondering how bad the shell is here on a taco. I bet it's just in a bowl. And they're like, there's taco stuff in there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's pre made. It's pre made crushed up tortilla trips.

[James Petregallo]

Probably. Maybe.

[Producer/Announcer]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So she's finishing that up and in walks JD which you just, you know, you pictured the saloon doors opening and like the shadow going. And he comes in with his chest swaying.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His footstep creates dust.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Oh, for sure. I think everything creates dust in this town.

[Producer/Announcer]

You think so?

[James Petregallo]

It feels like a place where even on wet concrete, if you step on it, a dust cloud pops up for some reason. It's weird. So he walks in the bar, at about the same time another patron walks in and this guy just had some kind of big like windfall. The guy who walks in, he's got some cash and he says, round of drinks for the house on me. Uh huh. That's gonna be popular guy, right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

You bet.

[James Petregallo]

What a nice guy. He walks in first thing. Everybody have one on me. Well, everyone's real happy about that except for JD he's got some pride. No, he doesn't have some pride. He's got jealousy. He said, how dare anybody buy a drink from my wife? It wasn't for his wife, it was for the house, including you, stupid. But he took that as you're buying my wife a drink. Them's five words.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, there is somebody.

[James Petregallo]

Mutual Cowboys.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

That's ridiculous. Get over yourself. If someone buys a round of drinks, say thank you, drink your drink, and shut the fuck up. What are you so crazy about, people?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I bought a round of drinks at a. It's a cowboy bar in the middle of fucking nowhere in Arizona. And two cowboys at the end of the bar declined it, said, none for us, thanks, and they bought their own beers. I was like, all right, whatever.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's called stupid. I think you can call it pride, but it's stupid. I think it's ungrateful. I don't know what it is. Yes. No, it's a free drink, man.

[Producer/Announcer]

Just have a drink.

[James Petregallo]

It's really a potpourri. Honestly, I wasn't even flexing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There was like seven people. I was just like, this should be fun.

[James Petregallo]

I'm.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've always dreamed of doing this.

[Producer/Announcer]

Seven people, I could afford that.

[James Petregallo]

You can't do that around that type of person though, because they think they're obviously good. Me, young man, you think you're better than me? That's the other thing too. Look at him walking in thinking he's better than everybody else. Buying a drink, trying to be generous, crazy weird. Those are people that don't spend enough time around Women, they're out of their minds. Too many, too much time. Because if there was a woman, there they go. What's wrong with you? You know what I mean by everybody? The guy's being generous. What is. What are you. Why are you weird?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Have a drink.

[James Petregallo]

Have a drink. I'm.

[Producer/Announcer]

Have yours.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You fucking.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I'll take three. Mine. And these two idiots. Thank you. So he gets pissed off. So Marilyn goes out later on, and so does jd. He follows her out. Yeah. And then she's gone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She just disappears on her own.

[James Petregallo]

We don't know. They both went outside and then they're both gone. Okay, so the next time anyone sees her is 2am yeah. This is where two women from Lewiston were stopped at an intersection when. Near Wendell, Idaho. When Marilyn leaps out of a Fiat station wagon screaming, please help me. He's had me out all night and won't take me home.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Runs up to their car, waving, jumping on their hood like creepshow, for Christ's sake. So she has red marks on her neck, too, that they can see clearly in the dark. Even, like just in the light of the car. And she says, he's been strangling me. Look at my neck. And you can see.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I didn't know the Fiat made a wagon.

[James Petregallo]

Neither did I. That was shocking. I don't know where she got that. That had to be from the 70s, too. Cause Fiat was doing a lot in the 70s, but I'm not sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I've never seen a Fiat wagon.

[James Petregallo]

That's. I'm sure they exist.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Except it's only three people.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, sure, they exist in Italy or something, but not here. I didn't think. But either way, I don't know how it got to Idaho. Marilyn reports to police that J.D. had kidnapped her. He abducted her outside in her own car to get into the car outside of her job. Choked her unconscious, drove her to Lincoln county and raped her. Wow. This is a kidnapping rape. Now, they're not, but that's what it is, period. I mean, he knows her and all, but you still can't kidnap and rape people. That's crazy. So she escaped when the car stopped at a stop sign and she saw that other car, she made a run for it. He looked away for a second. She just jumped out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Good work.

[James Petregallo]

Took off. Now, her car was later found high centered, stuck in the middle of the car on a rough road in another county. Completely, completely burned.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Lit it on fire.

[James Petregallo]

High centered it and burned it. Huh. That's where they find it. Now, the VIN numbers Had been scratched out and literally taken off the car in all the obvious locations. The dashboard and the door frame. But there was a secret vin in a hidden location that law enforcement knew where to look for.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, on the motor block.

[James Petregallo]

Exactly. Yeah. Where it's hard to get to if you're going to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's underneath the car. You're not getting a file in there?

[James Petregallo]

Nope. So that's where it was found. Now, the land it was found on, JD's grandfather used to own that land.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Classic.

[James Petregallo]

It's all pretty tight tied together. So June 25, 1984, a warrant is issued for JD's arrest for kidnapping and hurts Jay. Yeah, so finally some charges are happening here, but he's on the run. He took off. Apparently he was hitchhiking through Nevada at one point.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

A cowboy named Gary from Elko, Nevada, he told this guy that he was a rodeo clown from Arizona.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He told Gary that.

[James Petregallo]

He tells Gary from Elko, I'm a rodeo clown from Arizona. And he said, well, what you doing here in Elko? And he said, counting studs for the government. Which I didn't know they still did that past the 1870s. I wasn't aware that they were still like, wild ones. We were hiring people cowboys to do stud counts out in the wild. I didn't realize that was a thing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So there's like 30 of them. We're all right.

[James Petregallo]

I'd like to know. Yeah, I'd like to know that if that's where our tax dollars are going. I'd really like to know why that seems wasteful. Seems a bit wasteful. So this was Gary Stowell was the cowboy he ran into here. And this was on June 26, the day after the warrant was issued. And he was counting studs for the government. So this guy gave JD a ride from Southern. Wow. Owh. Yee. Oye. Owyee county, which was from about 25 miles north. And JD continues his story by saying, see, I was out there counting the studs, you know, for the government. Lost track and all. No, no, no, didn't lose track. I was on my horse, see, and my horse got spooked by some rattlesnakes, you know, runned off well, and he done took off on me now because the rattlesnakes spooked him. And my pickup truck done run out of gas in the Sheep creek area there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So, you know, all my modes of transportation are out.

[James Petregallo]

I got nothing. You know, the snakes are out. The horses just run. Now then there's another guy, Albert Baronaga, who Manages range operations in the county and in northern Nevada for Simplot Livestock Company. He said JD introduced himself on June 26 as Sam.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, he's got a Sam name, all right.

[James Petregallo]

Baranaga, who said he knew JD As a youth but didn't recognize him that day. They knew each other actually, but he didn't recognize him. He said that he claimed to be counting wild horses for the government and claimed he was from Montana this time. So now he's Sam from Montana, not, you know, whoever from Arizona. This guy said that he went to the camp to meet his wife and daughters and found JD There when he arrived at the Simplot camp.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Simplot, Maybe Lot.

[James Petregallo]

Lot, yeah. Simplot Livestock Company. I'm not sure. Simplot. Simplot. JD had said his pickup truck was out of gas and his horse ran away during the night. But he made no rattlesnake mention this time. Now the horse just ran off on his own. Now he's just another stud to count, that's all.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's just a real willy nilly horse I had.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. Baronaga said, yeah, he knew JD As a youth because his grandfather owned property in the area for some years now. So that's interesting. So that's his story. He's on all different stories here. He's out of gas. He's doing that now. Barinaga, the first guy or the second guy here said he pressed Charbonneau for information on what agency employed him. Who's paying you money to just ride around counting things? There's gotta be a more scientific way to do it than to send a guy out on a horse to count. There has to be.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, we got tags on sharks in the ocean. Could we do that on the land? That seems much easier.

[Producer/Announcer]

This is the.

[James Petregallo]

The 1980s, not the 1880s. Maybe in the 1880s, you'd send a guy out there on a horse, but I think there's better ways to. Do we have planes we could send over to take pictures and figure it out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That seems great. Department of the Interior, who's doing this?

[James Petregallo]

And he got no response, really. So Baron Aga said, I wasn't satisfied with the answers he gave me. We like to know who's out there and what they're doing. We like to be super nosy being everybody's business because, you know, freedom and all this is what. I mean, this is hilarious, these people.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So the day after Charbonneau left the camp workers found a burned vehicle in the southern part of the county that was identified as the Fiat that was high centered and that was in a place where his grandfather used to own land. By the way, both witnesses here remember Charbonneau carrying a backpack. That's the same one that Marilyn used as a purse. Oh, so he's carrying a ladies purse backpack as well. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So she jumped out of a car and then he took off with it. And then I centered and lit it on fire.

[James Petregallo]

That's what he did in another area, in another county. And then hitchhiked into Nevada with these people and said, that rattlesnake's done scared off his horse.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, and get me back to my rodeo cowboy and days.

[James Petregallo]

That's it. So it's a lot. So like I said, they find the car, they find the VIN number, they identify it as Marilyn's car. So by June 28th, he's still a wanted fugitive for kidnapping and rape. And he walks into a hardware store in Gooding, Idaho, and purchases a Remington.22 caliber rifle and two boxes of ammunition, which you can absolutely do while you're literally wanted for kidnapping and rape.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fascinating.

[James Petregallo]

That is wild. He will tell people it's a graduation gift for Tyra, who's 14, so I don't know what, she's maybe eighth grade, junior high, she's graduating.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Well, I had the money. Now

[James Petregallo]

I'll put it away just in case it ain't gonna go bad. It's all right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In case I'm out of money in four years.

[James Petregallo]

It makes no sense. And also, I'm buying a gift for the daughter of the woman who I'm wanted for kidnapping and raping.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And she hates me.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And I buy her guns also. And she has protection orders against me.

[Producer/Announcer]

If.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In case a man treats you like I treat your mama, you're gonna need this one day.

[James Petregallo]

You know exactly what I mean too. You seem to you saying it so. June 30, 1984. He's still out. There. Now, this night, Marilyn goes out. She's going out to hang out and party this night. And there's a waitress named Chris Smart who is also at the Butte Cafe here. And she said that she had been invited by Marilyn to go to Gooding, the town of Gooding, on June 30, when Marilyn and her younger daughter Tira ate dinner at the cafe during Chris Smart's shift. So the her and her daughter came in. Tyra and Marilyn came in and they said, hey. Marilyn said you should come with me to Gooding tonight. Later on, Marilyn came back into the cafe and said she decided to go to Twin Falls instead because JD Supposedly had been spotted in Gooding. Right. And she was afraid of him, she said, and she didn't want to go there.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't want to see him.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. No. So Chris Smart said that Marilyn told her if she went by herself, he'd get his hands on her again. Oh, so she didn't want to go by herself. Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to feed your cat with Smalls.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Smalls.com youm know it.

[James Petregallo]

My kitty, Brandy, she kind of runs the house here. She gets what she wants. Sure. She'll make sure she gets what she wants because she'll keep telling you what she wants over and over again. And what we found that she wants is Smalls. That's what it always is. She wants the Small Smalls. It's good stuff. And you should feed your cat Smalls because I'm telling you, they go nuts for it. They love it. Yes. This podcast is sponsored by Smalls. And after my cat rejected Kibble over and over again, all the different brands, I realized something had to change. Smalls Fresh cat food is protein packed recipes made with preservative free 100% human grade ingredients that you'd find in your own fridge. You ever be have you ever been jealous of your cat? Cats bowl? I am. I looked at it, I go that looks pretty good. Let's sit down there with you. I'm have a bite. It's not bad, I'm telling you. And it's delivered right to your door. That's why cats.com named Smalls their best overall cat food for a limited time, get 60% off your first order plus free shipping. When you head to smalls.com STM and starting with Smalls is real easy. You just share some info about your cat's health and diet and food preferences. Smalls puts together a personalized meal plan for your cat. No more picking between the random brands at the store. Smalls has the stuff that your cat wants. My cat loves it, I'm telling you right now. And your cat's gonna love it too. And also you're gonna love it because after switching to smalls, 88% of cat owners reported overall health improvements. That's a big deal. And the team at Smalls is so confident that your cat will love their product that you can try it risk free. That means they will recognize refund you if your cat won't eat their food. Plain and simple. So stop guessing which meals will upset their stomach For a limited time, because you're a small town murder listener, you get 60% off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com STM one last time. That's 60% off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com STm now back to the show. Just gonna take a quick break from the show and say thanks to homeserve for sponsoring this episode.

[Jimmy Whisman]

HomeServe.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

It's great to own a home. Owning a home is fantastic. You know, one minute you're, you're hanging out, you're looking out your window, sitting on the couch, thinking everything's great, looking at your stuff, looking at your stuff. Next second, pipe burst, you're ankle deep in water. Then what are you gonna do? Yeah, Repairs don't care about if it's convenient time for you or not. And they don't care about your budget. That's the problem. You know, you got health insurance, you get car insurance, you get all these different things. Your phone, everything's covered. You protect all these things. But what about your home? It's your biggest investment. And when things go wrong, the costs are hard and fast. It's rough. So that's where homeserve will save you. I'm telling you right now. Regular homeowners insurance, they usually don't cover a lot of the day to day wear and tear, plumbing failures, H VAC breakdowns, electrical issues. You know, you're often on your own for those. You know, if a hurricane hits your house, it's one thing, but these repairs are horrible. That's where homeserve comes in. It's like a subscription for your home. For as little as $4.99 a month, they've got your back. Repairs hit fast and hard. You could be searching for a contractor in a panic, or you could already be on the phone with HomeServ's 247 hotline scheduling a repair, and they take care of all that crazy stuff. You, it's super simple. You choose a plan that's based on your needs and budget. When something on your plan goes wrong, just call their 247 hotline and get that repair process started. They've helped homeowners like you and like us for over 20 years. With a trusted national network of over 2,600 local contractors with 4.5 million customers and a 4.8 out of 5 post repair rating. It's an a better business bureau rating. They're the real deal. And they are. They're fantastic. I love home serve. It is I feel so much more secure knowing that I'm not gonna have to scramble and panic and try to figure something out when something be out

[Jimmy Whisman]

there knee deep in muck for no reason.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah. Cause I've lived in like Arizona when the air conditioning went out and it was like, it's a panic. You're in a panic. Oh my God, we're all gonna die. It's a crazy panic. So help protect your home systems and your wallet with homeserve. Against covered repairs. Plans start at 20 as $4.99 a month. Go to homeserve.com to find the plan that's right for you. That's homeserve.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between $4.99 and $11.99 a month. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to get the best clothes easier and much less expensive with quince.

[Jimmy Whisman]

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[James Petregallo]

You know it. A thoughtfully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and that last. You know, something that looks like garbage after two times that you wear it. That's where Quince shines. Premium fabrics considered designs and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and dependable even as the seasons change. Quince has the everyday essentials that you're gonna love and that we love with quality that lasts. They have lightweight cashmere sweaters, short sleeve Mongolian cashmere polos, linen bottoms and shorts. Jimmy got those linen pants. And yes, it's good times there here. Tees and 100% Pima cotton and European jersey linen. These are the versatile pieces that make a wardrobe actually work season to season. Quince works directly with top factories and cuts out the middlemen. That's how they do this. You go, how is it cheaper if it's so much better quality, how's it less expensive? Because that's why there's nobody in the middle taking the big chunk of awesome. You're not paying for a brand markup or fancy retail stores, just paying for the quality clothing that you're going to get. The cashmere is 100% Mongolian, the same stuff luxury brands are using. The Pima cotton is a is long staple, which means it stays soft and doesn't pill. And the European jersey linen is breathable and lightweight. Everything is built to hold up to regular wear and still look good. Their clothing is rated between 4.5 and 5 stars by thousands of people wearing it every day, including us. And the only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. I've got so much stuff from here. Yeah. Honestly, I love quints. This is the. I go to quince first when I need clothes now.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it's terrific.

[James Petregallo]

There's no reason to go anywhere else. They have all the really nice stuff. Prices are great. Can't beat it. Honestly, I've got nothing that I don't like from quints. It's fantastic. Stop over complicating your wardrobe. You don't need a closet full of options. You need a few pieces that actually work. Let's do this. Everybody right now. Go to quince.comsmalltown murder for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q u I n c-e.com Smalltown murder for free shipping and 36065 day returns. Quince.com Smalltown murder now back to the show. Okay, so she goes out that night and hangs out and parties in another town, Twin Falls.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In Twin Falls.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. July 1, 1984. The next morning, 30 days in June, 10:30am Marilyn returns to the ranch after being out all night. This is her first time home here. Now this is the rented ranch at El Rancho 93 on Highway 75, northeast of Jerome. So rural area. The girls are home when she gets there. Tiffany is reading. So hard to say. Tiffany.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm never gonna not hate that.

[James Petregallo]

And Tyra's getting ready to take a bath. Okay, so it's a leisurely morning here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, pretty decent day.

[James Petregallo]

11Amish. Marilyn goes outside to check on some horses that she saw that went into the wrong corral. So she's gonna go grab those horses and bring them on back. Okay. Now, sometime after 11am because she went out about 11 sometime, the Times are kind of shaky here. Tiffany hears gunshots. Oh, she. Tiffany's inside, but she hears gunshots. Now Tiffany, rather than. She doesn't like call 911 or anything, she runs into her mother's room and grabs her mother's.22 caliber Ruger pistol from behind the radio of Marilyn's side table there. And she runs outside toward where she thinks the gunshots came from with it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dang.

[James Petregallo]

So Tiffany is. Tiffany's down.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She is not fucking around.

[James Petregallo]

She's not fucking around. She's about to get gunshots.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I know where the gun is. I'm running towards the gunshots.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Tiffany's rugged. I like her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So what she finds here is. Is crazy. She runs out to the barn and finds her mother, Marilyn, sitting on the ground in the alleyway between the corrals and the potato barn. We got both. And she's sitting there and there's blood on her. She looks up and sees JD Charbonneau standing close by, pointing the.22 Remington that he just bought for Tyra's graduation, pointing it at Marilyn. Tiffany tells JD get out of here. I'm gonna call the police. She's holding her gun on him and says, get out of here. I'm gonna call the police. JD Says, I'm gonna take your mom to the doctor.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And then Marilyn and JD Both tell Tiffany to leave, go inside, get out of here. Which makes sense for Marilyn because she's protecting her daughter. Right. If there's a guy with a gun and he's dangerous, you just want her out of that situation. Don't wor saving me. You go, yeah, that's what you're doing.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And he means business. Cause there's. I'm wounded. There's blood.

[James Petregallo]

There's already. Exactly. So that's Marilyn being a good mom, trying to protect her kid. Because she could have said, you know, shoot him. Get in a shootout with him right now. Instead, she said, you fuck off. Go away. Let me deal with this.

[Producer/Announcer]

Throw down, girl.

[James Petregallo]

Throw down, girl. So Tiffany goes inside. She leaves, but first grabs her mother's car keys. Cause I guess she got a new car. She got a new Fiat, apparently. And that's so JD can't drive away in her mom's car. In her mind now, 11:38 is when she runs to the shop across from the cellar and calls the Jerome County Sheriff's office. Tiffany does. And in her words, jamie shot my mom. She says. She said. They both looked at me, referring to Charbonneau and the mother. And Charbonneau ordered her to leave in a loud, angry voice. And her mother told her to go away also. So she said she just ran over, called 911, and told him that Jamie just shot my mom. So the sheriff here, Sheriff hall, he gets called at 11:47am after all this. So they're all aware of it as well, that particular sheriff. So Tiffany then goes back in the house and gets Tyra out of the bathtub, says, let's go, prune girl. Move out of here. Both girls get dressed. Tyra throws On Tiffany's boyfriend Bart's oversized pants and big boots that are too big for her. Now they're dressed and they're kind of scared. They don't know what to do. Now, between 1138 and 1142, this is when the sheep wagon comes into play here. The girls run outside and take cover behind a sheep wagon. Some kind of wagon that I assume you take sheep in.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a sheep transport mechanism, one way or another. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So this is near the corral. They're calling for their mother and not hearing anything. They're just hearing silence. Tiffany is shaking. She still has the.22 pistol. She's got her hands behind her back with the pistol. She's shaking and accidentally squeezes one off, she says, which in this situation is much different than that normally means that phrase. So she squeezes a shot off by accident. It nearly hits the family dog.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What?

[James Petregallo]

Behind her by accident. Gravel sprays against the side of the barn. Tyra screams. The dog fucking starts barking and runs away. Runs away. So she said at that point, she heard about five more gunshots.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, shit.

[James Petregallo]

And she said, I was too scared to be counting them, she said, Tyra said later on. So the girls then run back inside the house and Tiffany hides the pistol. Tyra changes into her own clothes, and when she's pulling her pants on, she hears more gunshots.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, my God.

[James Petregallo]

Outside. Okay. So the girls, after a minute, they get dressed and they go run back outside to the alleyway into the horse barn, or potato. They call it the potato barn too. So Tiffany gets there first, and she finds Marilyn lying on her back with her arms over her head. She's got blood on her. Tiffany lifts up her shirt and sees blood everywhere. Everywhere, Holes and everything else. So on her chest, running from her mouth and nose. Tyra brushes her hand across her mother's cheek, too, she said, and it was bloody. Tiffany says, one minute she was looking at me, the next she wasn't. I knew she was dead, so I closed her eyes, which is. This is a horrible scene for these girls. JD Is nowhere to be found. Gone. He took off. Took off. But not in a car because they took the keys. So he took off. So by the time the officers reach the ranch here, Marilyn's in the barn. And they find Marilyn already deceased of her wounds. They find her, same thing on her back, arms above her head. Blood pooled beneath her. The scene was consistent, they said, with a prolonged attack. Not a single exchange of gunfire, a sustained barrage over time, as we'll find out how many Wounds she has. It's crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She was shot for a while.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. And they think about it. They heard gunshots one time, went outside, there was more gunshots. They ran inside, then heard more gunshots, then ran outside. Somewhere in there. They squeezed off around two, too. So about 20 minutes after this all happens, while the police and the crime scene and the coroner and everybody's trying to figure everything out, J.D. is found.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, where'd he go?

[James Petregallo]

He's arrested. They found him on foot in a field behind the barn. Not very far, just out back a little bit. I mean, it's a distance, but it's not miles. They also discovered a.22 caliber rifle about 100 yards away. He just left in the field. No one will find that there. That's fine. So that's what they're doing here. They had sought additional law enforcement, like agencies were coming from all around the state to try to find this guy. And he's like in the yard. He's just right there. Yeah. Now they arrest him without resistance. No anything? He says, no problem. He's in a wheat field near the barn. The Remington.22 rifle's on the ground nearby. Nearby. 200 yards away. Not a. So the autopsy of Marilyn. This is brutal. She was struck by at least 15 bullets.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Dang.

[James Petregallo]

That's a lot. From a.22 caliber. 15 to 16. There's some discrepancy here. The wounds were distributed across her body in a pattern that indicated she was in multiple positions during the shooting. That's how they know it was prolonged sitting, lying, moving, trying to escape, all different places. Three entrance wounds in the upper right chest clustered within a 4 inch circle. They said any one of those could have been the fatal shock. One severed the main artery from the heart, the autonomous artery near the aorta, causing massive hemorrhaging and also collapse of the lungs, filling with blood, too. So that was the cause of her death. Gunshot wounds to the chest, hemorrhage, shock, all that. Additional wounds. Three bullet wounds to the left thigh. One fractured her femur, as a matter of fact. Wow. Three rear entry wounds to the left shoulder and back and the back of the neck and the back of the right calf. That's her when she tried to leave. And wounds to the hands, wounds to the arm, Defensive wounds as well. This was a brutal, brutal attack over multiple different times and positions. Whoever did this. Well, we know who did it, it seems like. But whoever did this definitely had a chance to stop and chose not to. Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And yeah, was certainly proving a point.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. Now, the wounds they make later on, these life size models and X rays are used by the pathologist to show where the bullets entered the body. Here. One shot, like we said, shattered her thigh bone. Any of the four shots fired into the chest could have torn the two arteries that were caused. That would have caused death in five minutes or less. One wound was made by holding the muzzle of the gun tightly under her left breast and shooting so right up against it. Okay. Now, the Remington rifle was discovered in the wheat field. Obviously when it was found, it had three live rounds still in the magazine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Still in it?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Okay. Now, Marilyn's.22 pistol was found in the house where Tiffany had hidden it. After the accidental discharge, a.22 shell casing was found in the sheep wagon.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Discharged into that where Tiffany had hidden it. She hid it in there after the accidental discharge. That was the gun. Okay. And then the shell casing was near the sheep wagon that they hid behind. The casing will become a very, very, very, very big part of this case. That one casing, which makes no sense. Now, all the recovered bullets matched the Remington.22 rifle that he purchased days earlier and dropped in a field on the run.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Interesting.

[James Petregallo]

No bullets from the Ruger pistol that Tiffany had were recovered from Maryland's body. None. So that's important to remember. Wound trajectory and positions prove that Marilyn was shot first while sitting on a bale or a chair, then while lying on her back. Okay. Now, the issue is, though, she has 16 entry wounds. And 15, if you want to go, if you want to say, we'll give him that. It's 16. But 15, we'll even give him that. Okay. But only 14 bullets were missing from the ammunition that Charbonneau purchased. They found three live rounds and the rest in the box. And there is only 14 bullets missing. So that gun only shot her 14 times, but she's got 16 entry wounds. What? Yeah, that's what I mean, this is mind boggling, this whole thing. Fucking mind boggling. Okay, well, yeah, try explain that one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So, I mean, that rifle holds 20 rounds or 10 rounds. I mean, so that's 20. Right. And he's got three left in there. She's been shot.

[James Petregallo]

There's 14 bullets were shot from the ammo he bought. That's what we know. So he discharged 14 rounds based on the ammo he had. Unless he picked up two bullets somewhere randomly, which I.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There were extras hanging around.

[James Petregallo]

Why? He bought two boxes with the gun and he was using that ammo. Why would he throw a couple more? It wouldn't make Sense. So it doesn't make any sense. There's 14 bullets missing, but 16 entry wounds. So that's a problem. Now, the medical examiner offered several possible explanations. One, missed exit wounds. Maybe that was an exit wound. And we thought it was an entrance wound, which happens all the time. Yeah. The bullets sharing an exit hole, which would be perfect. That would be incredible. Ricochets, which is a lot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Inside the body.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. No, I think he means you shoot it comes out and then comes back and hits her again, which I don't see that happening.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That seems crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Fragmentation. A bullet through the hand entering the body somewhere else. Now, that's. If you go like this and it goes through your head into your chest. That's two entry wounds right there. Sure.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Also fragmentation of like a bullet going in and breaking apart and then maybe a piece of it coming back out.

[James Petregallo]

Absolutely. Or hitting something on the way in, fragmenting it. And then that part. Any of those. Or the possibility that Marilyn coughed up a bullet lodged in her throat before she died as well. Okay. Now, the sheriff says we have the guy in custody. This is Jerome County Sheriff Elza Hall. And he said that the shooting occurred on the ranch, and it's all very sad. And he said he didn't know if the woman was forced from the house and taken to the barn or if she was outside on her own account. They don't know. He said that the number of shots aimed had not been determined, even though it was. This is what they're telling the press. They said there was a lot of gunshot wounds. The main ones that killed her were to the chest. That's the sheriff's official statement, the main one. Now, this sheriff also acknowledged that, yes, we have had warrants issued for this guy in both Jerome and Gooding counties for over a week. In a related incident with this victim, he said the bond was set at 50,000 on the Jerome county kidnapping charge and the same amount on the rape charge as well. Now, they get. He's arrested, so they get JD into the interrogation room and. And you know what these cowboys are? They're independent sorts.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How do you mean?

[James Petregallo]

Well, the independent sorts, they don't need no suit and tie, blood sucker coming on in here and using up all my money and all that kind of thing. I can explain my own way out of this.

[Producer/Announcer]

Is that right?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't need lawyer.

[James Petregallo]

I don't need me in one of them lawyers. So this is wild. This is his story. He said, yeah, I knew there was a warrant and stuff, but you know what? I just had to get back to my baby. That's all it was.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Marilyn is this baby?

[James Petregallo]

That's right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Sometime in late June, he returned to Jerome, and he said he didn't go to the police to turn himself in. No, he went to her potato seller or the tack room, one or the other, I guess. He went back and forth. He says that Marilyn knew he was there. Not only was he there, he said, I wasn't hiding. She knew I was there. Which we know isn't true because the night before, she didn't even want to go to a county that she heard he was going to be in. So I don't think she would be happy with him living on her property for days.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Probably not.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. But he said she knew he was hiding there. He claimed that he and Marilyn had reconciled and were going to live together again, but that she wanted him to stay in the barn until she broke the news to her daughters when he was coming back.

[Jimmy Whisman]

One big surprise.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, yeah, this is wild. So he said he had the Remington rifle and two boxes of ammo. And he said that, you know, Marilyn knew he was there, didn't want the daughters to find out. He says that night, that day, they made love. And they made love for the last few days, just, you know, it's been beautiful. Me and my baby out in a potato barn, just rolling around in that romantic.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I never want to be arrested in a time where you have to describe any kind of lovemaking.

[James Petregallo]

No, especially this cowboy. We made love. What of it? It's really funny. So he said they looked at the rifle that he bought for Tyra. He says they were getting along well. He also says he slept on the floor and went without food from Thursday until Saturday evening.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's dangerous.

[James Petregallo]

That's a long time. He says he slept on the floor and went without food. He said on July 1, he'd been hiding in the potato cellar across from the driveway, across the driveway from the house. And he had the rifle, had the ammunition. And according to his testimony, later than what he says to these people, he came to the barn, that Marilyn came to the barn that morning. They talked, and she picked up the.22 caliber rifle and took it to the house to remove a scope sight that had come with it. I'll go ahead and take the scope off. Tyra don't need no scope. No. He said that Marilyn told him that she was going to tell the girls that day that he was there and would let Tyra take the gun to the gun range and let her sight it in. Oh, okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Minus the optics?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, just with the straight sights. So JD Said that when Marilyn came back to the barn, she had a handful of bullets and loaded the rifle. He said that after going out to the corrals to move some horses, he and Marilyn returned to the barn. He said he asked Marilyn where she had been all night. Yeah, where have you been last night? Yeah. And, Jesus, this is like an old song here. He's sleeping. Instead of in the pines, he's in the fucking potato barn. So he said that. That, you know, she told. Where have you been all night? She told him that. And that she told him that he thought she was sleeping with every guy in the Valley. That's what she's. You think I'm sleeping with everybody? He said that Marilyn picked up the rifle, pointed at it at him nice. And told him that he was dead and that no other woman was going to have him. Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So now she's.

[James Petregallo]

She flipped it. Yeah, flipped it. Yeah. He said he heard a click, like an empty chamber there. And at that point he grabbed the barrel of the rifle and wrestled it away from her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Pulled it away.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. He said at that point that Marilyn screamed for Tiffany to bring Marilyn's shotgun to her and that when he got the rifle away from Marilyn, she turned and ran. He said that he saw Tiffany coming from the house and that he had the rifle at his hip and he thought Marilyn might be going to run around and get another gun. So he said he closed his eyes and the gun went off several times.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Several times. God damn.

[James Petregallo]

I closed my eyes and just. It went off. I didn't even squeeze the trigger. It just started to shoot. And you know what? My gun's a good shot, I guess. He said he opened his eyes and Marilyn was on her knees and bleeding. Yeah, okay. He said several times. Several times. He said Marilyn told Tiffany to leave and that he told Tiffany to call an ambulance. Oh, yeah. He's very concerned. He said that as he knelt beside Marilyn, Tiffany came running toward them with a pistol. You know, he's just cradling her. Oh, no. He said at that point, Crazy Tiffany came out with a pistol saying, quote, I hate both of you guys. Right? Hate both of you. He said that Tiffany fired the pistol two or three times and that he ran out of the barn.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Huh.

[James Petregallo]

He said that when he realized that Tiffany was not coming after him, he eased back to the barn and heard Tiffany talking to his mother. She'd just shot at you or her mother. His story is she shot at him a few times. But then didn't chase him. So he figured it was okay to go back and be in her parents presence again.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So is his story that his. She hates her. She shot her mom.

[James Petregallo]

You got it? Well, he shot her a couple times when he closed his eyes and got so bad it went off. Yeah. But then Tiffany came out and decided to finish the job. She's had enough here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I hate y' all so much. I'm gonna finish your accidental shooting.

[James Petregallo]

It gets better. Yeah. Tiffany. He said Tiffany. He realized Tiffany was not coming after him. So he eased back into the barn and heard Tiffany talking to her mother. Then he says that he saw Tiffany standing above Marilyn and heard the pistol go off and saw Marilyn's hair fly up. You know, poof. One of those. So she stood over her mother and coldly executed her. A 16 year old. Right. Put her out of her misery there. And according to him, that was it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But her head.

[Producer/Announcer]

She has no gunshots to the head.

[James Petregallo]

No gunshots to the head. But I guess the.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, you get hit in the chest with a.22 James. It's crazy.

[James Petregallo]

Well, it's like an air rifle too. There's a lot of air behind it. Poof. And your hair pops out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The air comes out of your hair follicles.

[James Petregallo]

Oh my God. So, yeah, he said that they were just. Him and Marilyn were fighting. She told him not to start the jealousy thing. And he told her that her parents thought she was crazy and that her dad daughters thought she was sleeping around and that he thought she was sleeping around. And that's when she got all mad and said, you're dead and all this shit. He said, quote, I had no choice. She was going to shoot me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Who was going to shoot him?

[James Petregallo]

Marilyn. Everybody was going to shoot him. Apparently. Marilyn. Tiffany took a couple shots at him, had no choice. Had no choice to what? I thought you had accident makes nose. Now Marilyn's parents are. Are fucking pissed at the cops that they did not pick him up in the time that he was wanted.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And that they're accepting this crazy story as anything.

[James Petregallo]

Well, they're not accepting it. That's just a story. That's the story he gave. But they said a friend quoted Marilyn as saying, next time he'll kill me and nobody will believe me. The same friend said, who also asked not to be named in the newspaper because of fears that JD May escape jail and get loose and come after them. Said that Marilyn said, they don't believe me because he's such a nice guy to everyone else. Which is pretty common. A lot of times these wife abusers aren't going around pissed at every. Because they're pussies. For the most part. Too scared.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's why they hit women.

[James Petregallo]

Adults. Yeah. With adult men. So they question why more wasn't done. The parents here to find Charbonneau between the kidnapping and rape and this murder, the father, Jim, said, I think a lot more could have been done. I think they could have found him in 10 days. And they said, it just seems like we all the family and police just sat here and let her get killed. Yeah. Her mother said that Marilyn was unable to convince the authorities that her troubles with JD Were real. They say she was hospitalized twice in Elmore county, where once she went to the police, but nothing was ever done to restrain her him from further attacks, they said also they got a cold shoulder from Dan Adamson, her ex brother. They say Adamson failed to act when they went to him about an attack by Charbonneau on Marilyn before they were married. And that was the mutual combativeness is what they called it. Combativeness. Because she used a cast iron skillet. However, the family said the skillet was not actually even used by Marilyn. So that was bullshit. The skillet was actually used by her younger sister on JD See, it's much different.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Family affair.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, exactly. Well, they said JD Attacked Marilyn.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And then tried. No, he tried to then turn the fuck with the sister, too. And the sister said, hell no, motherfucker with a cast iron. Not me. Motherfucker. Pow. I didn't marry him. Clink. And that was the attack. That's how it went. Wow. Yeah. Another friend, a Jerome native who lived in California for 20 years, said that because Marilyn was his wife, JD regarded her as a possession. Both friends say that JD did not accept the divorce and continued to refer to Marilyn as his wife after it was all final. The one said, they're living in the dark ages around here. I'm surprised women are even allowed to vote. This is like the Nikki Sixx of the area. He left and they're like, jesus, this place still exists. What the hell's going on? They also, one friend called the Jerome police and sheriff's officers lazy and said if it had been one of their family who was raped, you know, that boy would have been caught. Yeah, I would say so. They also expressed concern that Marilyn's killer, J.D. will get a reduced charge and a light sentence through a plea bargain or even a jury that he could charm. So you never know. They say that by their daughter dying, maybe at least Other women, perhaps their other daughters or Marilyn's daughters won't do the same thing. Maybe this will at least help our family in that regard. Marilyn's mom said if we can get something changed in the system that would save other women. She said that, you know, it would be worth going through the pain of recalling the death of her daughter. She said, so Marilyn wouldn't have died in vain, at least. Now Adamson, the prosecutor and ex brother in law, says he or the sheriff's office does not harbor any prejudice against women and women in husband and wife conflicts. Like this family says they think we're anti women who's getting beat up. He says he feels for the problems that women have in Jerome and in other Magic Valley counties with being brutalized by their husbands or boyfriends in the recent past.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I feel for him. I feel for him.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said, I feel for him. And they said, did this. Did them not going after. Is there a conflict of interest with you doing anything with her since she's your ex sister in law? And he said, quote, heavens, no. Just because she divorced my brother doesn't mean anything. Heaven's no.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I feel for gals like that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said he's not Prosecuting Marilyn. But J.D. he said, I'm prosecuting J.D. i'm not prosecuting her. Why would I have a grudge against her? He says he doesn't have any feelings of fondness or animosity toward Marilyn that would prejudice his actions in the Charbonneau case. If you have spent Christmases with the victim of this murder, recuse yourself. You're not. You shouldn't. This is a conflict of interest, period. You know, part of the family. You can't do it now. Ridiculous. So August 1984, there are some articles and some editorials and some letters to the editor that are in favor of J.D. wow. Now we find out where some of these may have come from later. By the way, here's one from 8-14-84. Report it, don't create it. That's the headline on it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

It used to be I only wrote to you regarding how unfair the Times News has been in the persecution of Congressman George Hansen. As you refuse to accept the American principle that you are innocent until proven guilty. This includes all appeal rights. So even after you're convicted, you're not allowed in the paper to call them guilty because their appeals haven't been exhausted. Wow. So maybe 25 years from now, you could say they were convicted of a crime, but you shouldn't report it till then.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Take some time.

[James Petregallo]

Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, it used to be like this, she said.

[James Petregallo]

Or this goes on to say. Cassius Clay is a classic case in point. When the U.S. supreme Court found him innocent. It was impossible to undo the damages he sustained. That was less to do with the courts. And more to do with the fucking media and social.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Tell me how many people Cassius claims George Wallace voters. Tell me how many people he was accused of murdering.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, lots and lots and lots. Oh, yeah, he has a pile of bodies they found. So they said. In recent weeks, Times News has run several articles. On the unfortunate death of Marilyn Arbaugh and Jerome. The way the articles are written, you leave no doubt in anyone's mind. That one J.D. charbonneau. Kidnapped, raped, and then burned her car. Then 10 days later shot her 15 times.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Defamation.

[James Petregallo]

Libelous. Even though it's literally just like the affidavit facts that they're recording.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Slander.

[James Petregallo]

Slander. If your paper is so sure of all the facts in the case. Why do we need courts, judges, juries, prosecutors and defense lawyers? Seems to me you should set aside one room at the Times News with a hanging block and complete the job.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fascinating.

[James Petregallo]

All you have accomplished to date with your inflammatory articles. Is to make it totally impossible to find a local, unbiased jury when that case comes to trial. Your paper would be better served by reporting News. Rather than trying to create it. This is especially true of a tragic incident such as occurred in Jerome. Reporting hearsay from known and unknown parties about a murder case is hardly responsible journalism. I believe I'm becoming a victim of Pavlov's dog syndrome. If I read it in the Times News, it must be wrong. Feeling this way. I can't help but believing there's way more to the death of Marilyn Arbol than we are hearing. We shall see what we shall see.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Fascinating.

[James Petregallo]

And it's signed C. Elton James of Twin Falls.

[Jimmy Whisman]

They published that?

[James Petregallo]

They published it, I guess, because there's a lot of people saying, hang him from the nearest tree. Now, JD Has a lawyer. And a lot of people think his lawyer is the one writing these letters to the editor. But we're not sure. That's allegedly Golden Bennett is his name. The lawyer. He's a character. He's one of these Western. Golden. He goes by Goldie. Goldie Bennett. He's one of these Western characters here. He's a Jerome lawyer with a vacation planned for Reno that the judge wouldn't let him. Wouldn't pause anything to let him go on vacation to Reno. Okay. He's a Loud guy. He's very combative. He writes letters to the editors of newspapers. He's known for that. That he files tons and tons of motions. He's one of those guys. He filed a motion to exhume Marilyn's body, arguing that the pathologist had left bullets in her and failed to conduct a complete autopsy. Oh. The sheriff said exhumation was unnecessary. He was personally at the autopsy. And the remaining bullets were too fragmented to be useful. That's why they weren't taken out. The judge denied the motion. He asked for a change of venue. Venue, or at least a jury from another venue. From Northern Idaho, as far up as you can go. Canada, if you can get them.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Hobbs Notch or whatever that was.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. She said everyone in Jerome knows Marilyn's family. So Goldie also declared that Adamson should recuse himself because of the family connection. Adamson told him no. Which Adamson should recuse himself. I think Goldie filed a motion to dismiss. He claimed that verbal. Claimed a verbal agreement with the prosecutor was ignored. The judge told him to fuck off. Okay. Now his big thing he's gonna focus on is Tiffany fired a shot. Tiffany, sorry, Fired a shot. Okay. She accidentally fired the shot. They said. What became of that? Of the bullet and of that shell casing? That's the thing here. Deputy Ernest Coates testified later that a former Jerome county prosecutor at the time was. The prosecutor, Dan Adamson, instructed him to get rid of the casing. Oh. But Adamson said he didn't tell the deputy to get rid of it. He just told him it wasn't important evidence because it has.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We don't need that one.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. None of the bullets ballistically match up to that gun. So who cares? Basically. Now, later on, Adamson will say that he told the deputy to dispose of the shell casing because he didn't think it was important. It wasn't found near the body. It wasn't found anywhere near the actual shooting. So it would be if someone shot from over there, they didn't hit Marilyn. Basically, yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a semi auto, obviously, what she carries if it ejected a fucking shell. So it would have ejected it over there if it was fired over there.

[James Petregallo]

Totally. That's what he's saying. So Goldie says he needs more time for a first degree murder case and kidnapping and fucking rape charges. He said, tell you what, let's put kidnapping, grand theft, rape, first degree murder all in one trial. What do you say? Yeah, let's ball him up here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's all in one action.

[James Petregallo]

And he says he Needs more time to prepare and thinks that if you're gonna do them separately, the kidnapping, rape, grand theft should be first because it happened first. Yeah, yeah, he said that. I'm a little upset that they would said it all without consulting me about my availability because they set trial dates and he said, I'm going on vacation.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Reno's calling. God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

That's Reno. I'm going to Gamble. Maryland Sheriff's Department. He said he will file motions to vacate the trial dates to consolidate the trials. He says that he wants the two combined because a jury can't make an intelligent decision about the murder trial without knowing the facts of what took place between June 21, the date of the alleged kidnapping, and the date of the shooting. He also files discovery motions to obtain the state's evidence against him. Him against jd, and he said he was only in the draft stage and part of the reason why he's not prepared to take the case to trial.

[Producer/Announcer]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

The judge said that he's not sure about whether he'll consolidate the two trials or not. He said, I don't know. I'd have to listen to a lot of argument. Now he's not gonna really have to, because December 11, 1984, the big one. The rape charges dropped.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

The prosecutor, Doug Rose, said that he filed the motion advising the court that he asks for a dismissal because they lack sufficient evidence. They said the complainant is dead. She said, it's not because I feel the crime wasn't committed, but rather, without Marilyn Arbaugh the only witness, it would be difficult to prove, which is logical. I don't know how you would prove that. So there's a pretrial hearing. Now, Goldie, he's. He does like Reno because he's a fucking gambler. He's going, yeah, well, he must think that JD's a charming fella. Let's just say he has to because he advises JD to. Or I don't know if he advises him or JD says he wants to do it, but the lawyer lets him do it. He doesn't tackle him. And fucking JD doesn't have to, like, drag him while he's holding onto his leg. JD testifies in this pretrial, which is crazy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

In the pretrial before even Trial.

[James Petregallo]

Trial, Yep. And this will all be. Even if he remains silent during the trial. This can all be used against him as his testimony at trial. Sure. Which is insane. JD testifies and he says that it was all Tiffany. He said, I watched Tiffany fire those fatal shots. And by the way. This really pissed off the Arbaugh family in attendance, if you might imagine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right. Tiffany probably didn't do that.

[James Petregallo]

Stood over a mother in cold blood and executed. I doubt it. Wow. Goldie also allowed JD to be interviewed for more than two hours by a state investigator without Goldie being present. Didn't sit next to him whispering in his ear what not to answer or any of that. Just said, you go in there, I'm gonna go have a long lunch for two hours. Hey everybody. Just gonna tell you about a better way to shop with Thrive Market.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thrive Market.com Absolutely.

[James Petregallo]

Thrive Market Market's amazing because number one, you can have your favorite stuff on the auto ship program, which is amazing here. The sales and the savings are great, but it's also being able to filter out the dietary preferences that is awesome. If you got someone in your house that's gluten free or allergic to nuts or that kind of thing, this all becomes very important. It's so easy to do that and honestly we love doing that. Sarah is gluten free so it's so much easier to find things and especially, especially like a replacement thing for something that you like. Well, what's a version of that that's gluten free and they'll bring it right up. Thrive Market is awesome. Thrive Market is a membership based grocery service where you can shop from wherever you are. Simply just hop on their app. The membership breaks down to just $5 a month and it gives members access to weekly sales, personalized shopping with filters, auto ship and save, free gifts and peace of mind knowing that there's no junk in any of the products that they catch. Instead of paying fees on every grocery delivery order, you pay once for the year and benefit from it every time you shop. It really is awesome. They have the no trade offs for yummy good food. That's what they have kids want Mac and cheese and sugary snacks and juice boxes. They're gonna eat what they're gonna eat. Thrive Market gives you versions with less sugar, fewer sketchy ingredients and more nutrition. It's excellent. They make it easy. Thousands of healthier swaps from brands like Goodall's, Mac and Cheese, Simply Mills, Poppy and so many more. All vetted before they hit the site. It's fantastic. You're paying a small monthly fee to offload the stress and research and decision fatigue of healthy eating. You can try it risk free, easily shop from 90 diet and high protein meals, low sugar treats, GLP1 friendly options or gluten free staples. You're gonna love It. I'm telling you, it's so much easier to do all that stuff. It takes all of the stress out of healthier eating. And no hidden fees, either. None of these delivery fees, service charges, or tips on every order. The membership bundles everything into one simple monthly cost. And the membership pays for itself with their discounts and sales. And it really does. You should shop here. We like it. It's good stuff. I love their tortilla chips. They're amazing, by the way. It's my favorite thing they have. Have ready to make some healthy swaps and become a member. Join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com Smalltown Murder for 30% off your first order, plus a free $60 gift.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Now back to the show.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. Then it comes out later on. This is from prosecutor Dan Adamson's affidavit. Okay. Sometime in 1984, after the preliminary hearing, but before the trial comes in 1985, Adamson says that Goldie approached Adamson privately and stated he knew Charbonneau was not guilty. He said, look, look, listen, man, I get it out in court. You gotta be the prosecutor, I'm the defense attorney, and we gotta go. But me and you, man to man, people that go to law school, pour me a scotch and let's just. I know he's not guilty, man. You can't be doing this. I know. And he said, well, how do you know that? And Goldie said, well, my niece in California conducted a seance with Marilyn. Oh, boy. Yeah. During the seance, Marilyn indicated that she forgave her daughter Tiffany for firing the final shots.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Which is. It's amazing. That lines up perfectly with JD's story. This clairvoyant niece in California. Here, here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We've talked to her and she said she. She feels for Tiffany.

[James Petregallo]

Not for me. Not for me. That's right. Or not for my client. Anyway, this is.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Goldie's niece. Not Charbonneau's niece. Yeah. So. And she's like. Well, I mean, she's in California, too. They. They do. They know all that stuff, seances and things. This isn't some, like, you know, farm. You know, farm psychic.

[Producer/Announcer]

This is like the best witchcraftery.

[James Petregallo]

This is real witchcraft down there. Yeah, they got. She got hairy armpits, this one. I mean, she's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is genuine.

[James Petregallo]

It's genuine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. So that's what she said. Now, Goldie allegedly used this to chart the course of his representation according to a bunch of court documents filed later on. Allegedly here, including theories about the daughter, an affidavit from Goldie's former legal secretary, which, by the way, imagine you're the prosecutor and the defense attorney wants to meet with you. And they're like, listen, I really think my client's innocent. And they're like, like, okay, I mean, I understand that, but what makes you say so? Well, my niece in California had a seance with the victim. What the fuck?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And she talked to her, and she

[James Petregallo]

talked to her, and she says she forgives her daughter. So the affidavit from Goldie's former legal secretary, Diana McDonald, stated that she personally witnessed multiple conversations between Goldie and his investigator about various supernatural and clairvoyant phenomena tied to JD's guilt or innocence. Yeah. She said the investigator was allegedly in regular contact with the spirit of the victim. I just talked to her last night and reported the results directly to Goldie. I talked to her again. Okay. Yeah. So at this point, murder suspect here. JD is appointed a public defender after he claims he lost confidence in his attorney. Which makes sense. Fifth Circuit Judge Philip Becker approved a new attorney and said he wanted the first degree murder case to go to trial as scheduled. April 15, 1985, in Boise. For several weeks, Charbonneau had expressed dissatisfaction with his lawyer's services and questioned his ability to. On Sunday, Charbonneau, quote, clearly and unequivocally wanted him off the case. Now, Charbonneau's mother in this article called Bessie of Mountain Home, was the one paying the bill, Goldie said. So he said, regardless of whether he wants me off or not, he ain't the one paying me. So I've been paid to show up. I'm showing up anyway. Okay? So Goldie here said that. That he sent a letter to JD's mom from his former. Or a letter said a letter to JD's mom from his former investigator had a great deal to do with JD's request. The former investigator had been jailed for allegedly using Bennett's credit cards without permission. That's the guy who said, I'm in constant contact with the victim. Wow, He's a charlatan. No shit.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's using credit cards. All right.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So Goldie said as it stood, I don't feel I can do an adequate job knowing how he feels about me. Meaning jd. He doesn't want me here, so how am I supposed to do anything? The prosecutor said that he didn't give a shit who defends him. I don't care who the fuck does it. Yeah, he said, I'm prepared to try my case. Doesn't care. He said, I don't want this to become a pattern. He's seen a lot of cases where defendants delay a case by changing lawyers. See Sarah Boone, she was on lawyer number eight. I think by the time the trial came, that was the way she would delay things. So. Wow. In the court. If the court allows the motion, Charbonneau will be stuck with a new attorney. The judge says, I'm not in the business of hiring attorneys. If I appoint a public defender, that's it. Okay. Now, JD's mother said she was satisfied with the job Goldie was doing and will continue to pay the bill even though her son doesn't want to him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

She said, from what I can tell, Golden Bennett has done everything he can do. But JD disagreed. But she said she believed it would be best to follow his wishes. But she said, I can't afford to hire someone else. I just paid that guy. So JD testified in front of the judge that Goldie didn't question all the people who might have aided in his case. He said that he told him, you're a fine attorney, but you, you have not done all you could. You're a fine attorney, but you're a lazy bastard who doesn't do your retreat.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He could do a little better. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He says he doesn't want any public defender because he believes they would work harder for the county than to defend him. Now, in a place like this, in a small county, they don't have a big pool of public defenders. This isn't Brooklyn, you know what I mean? No, no. This is one of them. No, in these counties, they generally have. And in all counties, they have a pool of private attorneys who put in for this work. Got it. And they'll get paid. They don't get paid nothing. They don't get paid 30 grand a year or whatever. They get paid a reduced rate, but a rate, an hourly rate, whatever the

[Jimmy Whisman]

fuck, rather than whatever they charge.

[James Petregallo]

So essentially, the judge is going to assign someone from that pool to be a defense attorney when that happens, as the public defender at that point, because it's just paid for public defenders. So the trial is moved to Boise in Ada county because everybody in Jerome had some kind of opinion over this. The Northside News, a newspaper, sues the Jerome sheriff for denying them access to interview JD in jail. JD wanted to talk to the press about jail conditions. The sheriff said if he let in one reporter, he'd have to let them all in. JD's mother wrote impassioned letters to the Times News about American justice. All sorts of shit here. But JD actually wrote the letters, and Goldie wrote the letters, is what everybody says, and wrote them under her name. April 1985 is the trial. Their first big issue is will the pictures of Marilyn's autopsy be allowed?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Will they.

[James Petregallo]

They're really trying to get them out, which usually there isn't even a real argument. They just go, nope, they're in. We're not gonna give you 20%. That's go the drawback of the skull open, but we'll give you one. You know what I mean? Well, they said that. He said that they're too inflammatory. The judge said that while the pictures aren't pleasant, they can't be banned. And he said that the request to suppress these statements seemed inconsistent with JD's demands to speak with the media about jail conditions. It's like you want things suppressed, but you also want to talk to people. You can't have it both ways. And he said that he repeatedly had advised JD of his right to remain silent before he testified at the pretrial hearing. Hearing. The judge was like, you really want to do this? You know, you don't have to do this. You know your rights. And he was like, I know him. Ask me them questions.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm going to throw Tiffany under the

[James Petregallo]

bus, and Tiffany gonna get hers. Now the jury's six men, six women. So that's even here, by the way, what he wears to court is insane. He shows up to fucking court in a. This is not this day. But on the last day when the verdict comes in and stuff, he goes to court in a bright red Western shirt with a big giant fucking collar on it. Yeah, red. You can't wear a bright red decorative Western shirt to be fucking.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Is it jeweled or is it just like. Just a bright fucking red.

[James Petregallo]

It doesn't look jeweled, but it's bright fucking red Western, big collar. It's a big, gaudy, stupid shirt that you wouldn't wear to get your fate decided.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really, really screaming, I didn't do this.

[James Petregallo]

Yes. And lawyers generally have a rule about colors that they wear, like, in their ties, and also what their clients are allowed to wear. And one of the first things is the client never wears red because red is blood. Yeah. In a murder trial. And they won't wear any ties with red in them on days when blood evidence is being introduced, scientific evidence, because people put the two together. So, I mean, they think about that shit. He said, hell, no. This is my best shirt.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I look damn good in red.

[James Petregallo]

This is my going out, getting Laid shirt. I might bang me one two of them jurors after they find me not guilty.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How much tail I got because of this shirt?

[James Petregallo]

Soon as that verdict comes in, I'm taking everyone out for drinks. Boy, six women especially.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I call this shirt the ovulator.

[James Petregallo]

That's right. Well, it's the implanter, anyway. It's the. Is what I call it, really. But the ovulator is for the ladies, so they don't feel sorry.

[Jimmy Whisman]

There's six ladies on this jury.

[James Petregallo]

I got enough for everybody. Trust me. I've been in jail a while, so I got enough for everybody. All y'. All. So they allow the pictures. The prosecution in the opening. This is the deputy Attorney General, Mark Hawes. He said, describes JD As a jealous man who refused to give up his ex wife. Wife. And stalked her for three days and then shot her repeatedly. Pretty cut and dry. Quote, if he couldn't have her, no man could. Then he carried out that threat. Even after the divorce, they said that he continued to claim her as his wife. And he said he wouldn't let go. He said the evidence is clear that five of the seven shells recovered from Marilyn's body were fired from the rifle by Charbonneau four days before the slaying. Saying that experts will testify that one of the other two shells is believed to have killed Arbaugh. Oh, four hours. I don't know why. He said four days before slaying. That makes no sense. Clear that five of the seven shells recovered from the body were filed. I think it's a misprint in the paper. It's supposed to be minutes or something. They said that the experts will testify that one of the other two the shell believed to have killed her was most likely fired by the same weapon. Now, the defense, Randy Stoker, is this guy, the defender here. He called the state's case nothing but unsubstantiated theory based on proving the charges by innuendo. Just innuendo. Not the fact that even said he shot her a few times. Part of his defense is, I mean, I shot her a few times, but. But not.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Shea shot her one.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Not the ones that killed her. I just started out shooting her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

All sorts of people want to shoot this lady.

[Jimmy Whisman]

For some reason, Tiffany got her in the deadly ones.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. He said that the hard facts don't support the state's theory. He said what you've just heard from the state standpoint is not proof. It's just theory. He's got a different theory. He said that the State will fail to prove that all the bullets that struck Marilyn were fired from his rifle. Oh. He also questioned the truthfulness of statements made by Tiffany and Tyra and relied on by the prosecution. They listened to those two girls. He said that the evidence shows at least 15 entry wounds in Arbaugh's body and the possibility of only 11 shells fired from Charbonneau's rifle. He said that the state must prove where the other shots originated. He said, we've had one tragedy in this case. Please don't let another tragedy happen by having this man convicted of something the state of Idaho can't prove.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't do.

[James Petregallo]

Don't be.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Miscarriage of justice is another tragedy. You guys.

[James Petregallo]

Such a tragedy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't fuck it up.

[James Petregallo]

He tells the jury that JD May testify before the trial ends. But he points out in statements that. That he pointed out there are statements that the judge is going to allow in, so you'll hear from him anyway, where he claimed to have seen Tiffany do that. And the defense attorney says, some cases just can't be proved. I'm not sure if the truth in this case will ever come out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's an unbelievable claim.

[James Petregallo]

Let's just all go home.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I mean, sometimes it's just too muddy.

[James Petregallo]

It's just too muddy. Can't untangle some knots. You just go. You just throw that ball of Christmas lats away because it ain't worth it. It just ain't worth it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You can't unring a bell.

[James Petregallo]

You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. At this point, it's all over.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I heard about that.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I done heard it.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Chili's out the can.

[James Petregallo]

It's out the can and it's out your ass pretty soon because it's that Wendy's chili, as we know from your stupid opinions, that'll come out from every angle. Turn Jimmy into a soft serve dispenser. So the mats, they do maps, charts, diagrams, the car stuff, everything. They have an anatomically correct female model with the gunshot wounds here. Had a nice pussy on it, too. Everybody said, woo wee. Look at her. No. So the medical examiner, on cross examination, the defense attorney presses him on what shot actually was the fatal one.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

He said, it's not that simple. The combination of injuries caused the death. It's not simple. Of one shot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. If you get shot a bunch of times, they'll compound.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that'll tend to happen. The deputy, Ernest Coates, who was the former county prosecutor, Dan Adamson's ex, you know, the Ex brother in law there. He's the one that was told to dispose of the bullet, apparently. Allegedly. Coates here quotes him as saying the spent casing, quote, wouldn't be needed and wouldn't be pertinent to the case and could be discarded. He says he put the casing in a film canister and threw it out. After the preliminary hearing, when it didn't come up and there was no talk of it and was like, we don't need this. It's not evidence. When the defense attorney asked this investigator if the situation was a little embarrassing, he said yes. When the prosecutor asked the investigator if he normally took orders from the prosecuting attorney rather than the sheriff, he said, usually I don't, but that day I do. Did you know, in this town, who cares? It's like from time to time. Wow. Tiffany testified.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Here we go.

[James Petregallo]

She described coming home, hearing shots, grabbing the pistol, finding her mother bleeding with Charbonneau standing over her. She described the calls to the police, described the accidental discharge behind the sheep wagon. She described lifting her mother's shirt to see the blood. On cross examination, the issue of Tiffany shooting her mother was never raised by the defense. They had her right there to say, did you shoot your mother? And never asked her that. But their whole defense is Tiffany killed her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe Tiffany did it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Yes. But they don't wanna piss the jury off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Ah.

[James Petregallo]

Because suppose, let's say, Tiffany said, fuck you. No, I didn't, you son of a bit. Then maybe the jury might think she had it in her. But what if she breaks down and cries and said, how dare Ma. It's my mother and I'm his mother.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't believe he would say that. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You're fucked. That defense attorney looks like a big asshole at that point. So rather than attack a teenage girl on the stand, they don't hash out their entire theory of the case when they have the chance.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, well, I guess you don't have to prove somebody else did it just to prove I did it.

[James Petregallo]

But, I mean, if you've been saying in your opening, that's your whole case, not someone else.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, her, her.

[James Petregallo]

She's right there and then she's on the stand. Don't you think you should ask her if she did it or not?

[Jimmy Whisman]

You'd think so. And you'd think the jury would judge one way or the other on both ways of doing it, right?

[James Petregallo]

Well, while you're questioning her, is the juror the whole time going, when are you going to ask her? He never asked her.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I guess why she did that.

[James Petregallo]

I guess they don't believe that if they didn't ask her. And the prosecution said it doesn't matter anyway, because every bullet, it matched the Remington that he had. Tyra testified about being pulled from the bath, dressing in oversized clothes, hiding behind the sheep wagon, the accidental pistol discharge, the five or so additional shots she heard. And reaching the barn to find her mother dying. And she said, we were just yelling to mom. We were being kind of quiet, but we was yelling to mom. We was, you know, but we wasn't getting any reply. You know, we wasn't getting nothing. Tiffy had. Tiffy had my mom in her arms, and Tiffy pulled up her shirt or something, and we could see a lot of blood and stuff on her chest. And so. And I just brushed my hand across her cheek because I didn't know what to do. And right when I did, that, blood started running from her mouth and nose. And Tiffy told me to go get an ambulance. Jesus Christ. That is crazy. That's brutal for this poor kid to hear, to say and to see and to experience. And whenever she says tiffy, it just reminds me of Judy gemstone going, love you, aunt Tiffy, when she's walking out of the room. So funny. So this is horrible. They bring in Jamie's testimony from pretrial. She said she took the. The rifle, pointed it at him. This is Marilyn. And said, you're dead. No other woman's gonna have you. Then she screamed for Tiffany to bring Rufus, which is a pet name for her pistol. Hey, guess what, everybody? I'm gonna give you, you know, like we always talk about, guys, red flags. Here's a red flag for a lady if she has a pistol with a man's name that she calls it, watch out for that. Not that you should watch out for Marilyn, but that'.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah, the same name as a rottweiler somewhere.

[James Petregallo]

Rufus.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Rufus is a crazy name.

[James Petregallo]

Sounds like a big dog.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And she used this gun on him at one point and shot him with it. So, I mean, Jesus Christ. So he said he closed his eyes, started shooting three or four shots. When he opened his eyes, remember, she was on her knees clutching her shoulder. Tiffany came out with the pistol. He ran, peeked back into the barn, saw Tiffany aiming the gun with both hands, and heard a shot and saw Marilyn's hair fly up. And he closed his eyes again. He just can't look at anything. On cross examination, though, he could not explain how Marilyn ended up with 15 bullet entry wounds when he claimed to have only fired Three or four shots and then watched Tiffany shoot her once. How's there 15?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah. I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

Explain that. He said he could not explain the clustered chest wounds. He could not explain the rear entry wounds to her back, neck and calf wounds consistent with shooting someone who is running away or lying face down. His story is terrible.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's not a good one. No.

[James Petregallo]

His story covers 4 of 15 shots. That's not enough.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And when you're talking about shooting a person and you're only gonna willing to admit to three or four of them, it's wild.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, but. Yeah, but then the daughter came and finished her off.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

So throughout this two and a half week trial, the prosecutor painted a picture, here's closing arguments, of him as a jealous husband who stalked her, gunned her down for spending the night with another man. He said the motive here is the state of mind and his inability to give up this woman. He couldn't give up Marilyn Arbaugh. He carried out those threats. So sounds pretty at the, you know, cutting right to the core here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Defense attorney Stoker here in closing arguments brought up the testimony on the discrepancy in the number of entry wounds found in the body and the combined total of exit wounds and slugs recovered from the body.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's not getting any explanation of that.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. He said with all the theories considered, at least three more slugs were fired into Marilyn's body than the state could account for. That's what they said. So either way, that's what happened. Which is kind of true. Jury instructions. The judge instructed the jury they could consider four verdicts. First degree murder, second degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, if you totally believe his self defense case here or whatever. Not self defense, but, you know, some sort of accidental discharge. The verdict. 13 hours of deliberation. Wow. I think it's the bullet discrepancy that does it. It has to be.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's too long. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

And they find him guilty of first degree murder. Yes, first degree murder. Now sentencing. The death penalty is on the table. That's when he shows up in a bright red western shirt during sentencing when the jury could put him to death. He says, I'm gonna look my fanciest.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Does he have like birds on the shoulders or anything? It's just a red fucking shirt.

[James Petregallo]

It's a bright red shirt.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Some design, though.

[James Petregallo]

He gets this now, Marilyn's family. Some shorts got like those swirly things on the shoulders that look like lassos or ropes or something. Sure. Marilyn's Parents said they hoped for a sentence that would ensure he would not be free for a very long time. Jim, the dad, said, I'd be afraid if he got out again. And her mom, Marilyn's mom, said, I don't ever want to see him on the streets.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay, good.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. And Jim said that this nightmare, the verdict, won't end the nightmare for the family because it'll never be over. Never. She's dead. How can it be over, Mom? Also, this is JD's mom. She said that Marilyn was the only woman who ever caught her son's interest. She was the one. Yeah. She said it was a stormy love. Now she's. Now she's being called Misty. So this is Misty's mom, Bessie. Yeah. Misty McKeel. She was Bessie Hamilton a minute ago. Now she's Misty McKeel. I don't know what's going on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She takes a different first name when she gets married, too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, she just changes. I do a full. Just a refresh.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. She says her son held on to even after firing a fuselage of bullets into her body. She said it's just. He still loves. He loves her. The judge here, he recalled the evidence of teenage daughter Tiffy heard shots and all that. And the judge said at that time she found her mother lying on the ground wounded. She was alive. And then the defendant was standing over her with a gun and told her daughter to leave. The defendant could in all probability have saved Marilyn Arbaugh's life at that point. The judge went on to say that Arbaugh could likely have survived with immediate medical attention. However, he said the facts show that two minutes after returning to the house, the daughter heard additional shots. The judge said that JD had about two minutes to decide whether he would save the life or destroy. Quiet. When the daughter returned for the second time to the barn, she found her mother dying. She said all the shots were fired from a rifle that he held, one which required the pull of a trigger for each shot. The judge said he believes those facts constituted necessary aggravating circumstances, especially that the murder was especially heinous, atrocious or cruel, and manifesting exceptional depravity. He also said that shows another utter disregard for human life. You rodeo boy may fuck off. Death penalty. Wow. They give him the. Yeah. Judge says he dicks here. So interesting. Now, Marilyn's mom, Mary said that she felt the sentence was correct. She says, I'm satisfied with the sentence. I think he got what he deserved. I feel sorry for his family, but he got what he deserved. Wow. The Prosecutor said, I feel justice has been done in the case. I commend Judge Becker for his decision. I know it was a difficult one for him to make, but he imposed the legal sentence in this case. I feel very satisfied that the family has been vindicated, especially some of the outrageous allegations concerning the daughters. JD's moment now, she is named Misty Hamilton. In this, during the same trial, she has two different last names. Wow. She said that. Wow, that's crazy. She said that after sitting through the hearings in the trial that were, quote, totally biased against Jamie, that she probably should have expected this sentence for her son. She said that Marilyn had threatened suicide on a number of occasions. Now should. Now. Now it's suicide. You gotta be fucking kidding me.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't think there's ever been a case in history with that many rounds.

[James Petregallo]

I shot myself in the back of the calf just for shits and giggles. I thought it was fun.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I shot myself 15 times.

[James Petregallo]

15 times. Only four in an area that would really kill me. I was practicing. That is ridiculous, man. That's ridiculous. She said, now, why does it all have to end like this? Well, that's. Cause that's the thing. She says she has great confidence in her son's attorney. Attorney. And that she will stand behind Jamie all the way in his appeal. All right. She added that despite whatever happened, her son and his former wife loved each other very much. She will not let that go. To a reporter literally standing nearby, now quoted as Misty McKeel.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nice.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. She declined to talk to the reporter, saying, quote, you didn't say anything good about Jamie during the whole thing, and I don't want to talk to you now. You were mean to my boy.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

A juror named John Keller said the jury could have reached a verdict sooner than the 13 hours they deliberated had the state not thrown away a spent bullet casing found next to the wagon. He said just. He said that had nothing to do with the case, but just the fact that they threw it away left a lot of the jurors questioning what was going on.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The existence of it alone would have made this a lot easier.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You could have just said, oh, yeah, there it is. And it didn't mean anything. Never mind. Now, the judge, which. You usually don't get a comment from the judge.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No.

[James Petregallo]

On this. The judge said that it was extremely difficult this whole trial. He said I would go back to the motel following a day's court session and lie awake at night hoping that I had been absolutely fair to both sides.

[Producer/Announcer]

The judge is being sequestered too?

[James Petregallo]

Not sequestered. They're all in another county.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, right.

[James Petregallo]

Got it. Yeah, the judge goes into that county. So? So he's got. Rather than drive home to Jerome every night, he just stays there. Yeah, he's no judge. Can't look at anything either, he said. I tried to carefully consider both the state's and the defense's positions. After all, the whole life of a very young man was at stake in these rulings I had to make. He's 24, for fuck's sake. So here's some letters to the editor about this whole thing. This is from the Reverend Ellis M. Cat.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

He says your article on Charbonneau, complete with a colored picture on the front page is just what Mary Arbaugh needed for Mother's Day. How insensitive. You can't convince me that the Charbonneau story was front page news. There was nothing new in the article. The Northside News has kept us all to date on Charbonneau's feelings. It was this kind of scuzzy journalism that supermarket tabloids and big city scandal sheets are made of. Of. Wow. These fucking people. God damn.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Scandal sheets?

[James Petregallo]

Scandal sheets either. Big city scandal sheets? We don't do no scandal around here. Either you think you can sell a few more papers by trading on Charbonneau or you're so unbelievably stupid that you allowed Charbonneau to use you one more time. Jerome county folks should boycott your sleazy rag since it seems you must have a cash register for a hard. Maybe a little financial pressure will heighten your sensitivity. Gee, shocking that the reverend from the First Baptist Church would have such a fucking hot and cold kind of a take on it, isn't he?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Nobody replied to him?

[James Petregallo]

Nope. These are just posted. Here's one. Sick of stories on Charbonneau. Same paper, same day. I see the Times News responded to Mother's Day with its usual tact and good taste. Printing a sympathy article for a convicted murderer on the front page of the Mother's Day edition. What a super way to say Happy Mother's Day, Mrs. Arbaugh. I don't think I'm alone when I say enough is enough. We're all tired of whimpering. Poor Mr. Charbonneau. He has been convicted in a court of law for murder. Let him start paying his dues to this society and let the Arbaughs get on with their lives. How about giving equal time to the friends and relatives of Marilyn Arbaugh? You could keep up A good thing. And print that on Father's Day. That's Diana Delaney. Then here's another one. Can't understand use of photo. Personally, if I never hear the name Jamie Charbonneau again, I'll be able to survive just fine. But for the Times News to put his oversized color photograph on the front page newspaper on Mother's Day was utterly despicable.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really.

[James Petregallo]

Okay, interesting here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Not even mad. As mad at being told about it. That is, in the fashion that they're being told.

[James Petregallo]

Insanity. Yeah. Now, here is James E. Coakley and his name. He's involved in this case. He says jury should have all the facts before making decision. His little letter to the editor, he said, there's a presumption of law that if accused of a crime, one is innocent. Innocent until proven guilty, unfortunately. Approximately 5% of the US prison population is incarcerated for crimes which they did not commit, but were found guilty by juries of their peers and incarcerated. If the judicial process is 95% correct, I guess those are good numbers. However, I doubt if you could convince any of the other 5% that the system works at all. I write this letter after having read the Idaho Supreme Court's ruling in the Jamie Charbonneau murder case case. The court, in effect, is saying that if Mr. Charbonneau admits to a crime he did not commit, then he's eligible to be considered rehabilitatable and his life sentence and his sentence could be reduced later on. This is like a thing. Like a very if, if, if type of thing here. He said, I investigated the original murder. And it's my opinion that if a jury ever got to hear all the facts of the case, Mr. Charbonneau would not have been convicted of anything more than aggravated battery. It's not attempted murder to shoot a person a few times. Apparently, the convicting jury did not get to HEAR More than 90% of the facts of the case that they should have had in order to make a just decision. If there were ever a botched murder case in Idaho, from the beginning to the end, it's this particular crime, as far as I'm concerned, the real murderer is walking free. Oh, my God. While Mr. Charbonneau does time for the crime, Judge Bistlein deserves applause. Okay, that's one for later. So this is. That's one of the investigators for his lawyer there. His public defender, by the way, is trying to get paid. He submitted a bill after the trial for $20,858 to the county, which is extremely expensive for the County Sounds like it, yeah. Now they offered to pay him $50 an hour for a total payment of $15132.80. He said he normally he requested to get paid $75 an hour, but that was that 1986 post conviction petition. He's got a new attorney named Jim May files a petition citing Golden Bennett's incompetence. Oh yeah. Bennett sat in on the trial even though he didn't want him the whole time because he was already paid. So he was like second chair at his trial the entire time now. Okay. They said, according to his filing, they let Charbonneau testify in the pretrial hearing allowing the two hours interview without counsel present. Failed to seek financial assistance for a private ballistics investigation. That's something. The judge Becker, the judge from the court denies this motion and he says you can't second guess strategic and tactical choices made by a trial lawyer. And a death warrant is issued for December 10th.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh fuck.

[James Petregallo]

That's that. The Idaho Supreme Court issues a stay on the execution. Okay, now, June 29th, 1986. Mom writes the newspaper now. She's Betsy McKeel Hamilton, who knows Misty Betsy. What the fuck? She says Americans must guard against loss of rights. Oh, and this goes on to say the authorities have so badly mangled and destroyed evidence, actually throwing part of the evidence away way the person under arrest has been denied his freedom of speech, freedom of privacy between his attorney and client. The prosecuting attorney is allowed to question a person under arrest for two and a half hours without the person's attorney available. He had an attorney. The attorney okayed it. Having a shitty attorney is different. That's a different argument that you can have. She said as the giant iron door slammed shut. The people of the United States states sit still while some men taint the hand of our democracy and convict people, put them behind bars, sentence them to death in the name of justice. Can the politicians that have slapped the face of courtroom justice and mocked the freedoms rights of America be allowed to go as high in politics as they like with more blood and crime on their hands than the actual people that are arrested and accused of a crime? Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The ballsy statement.

[James Petregallo]

This is a lot, man. She goes on to say, when an officer in our court demands. When an officer of our courts demand to another to throw strong evidence away using these words, throw it away, we have this bozo dead to rights. If that's the grounds, and if that is the grounds our innocent until proven guilty rights are based upon, then we as American citizens must Wake up. Wake up now or forever live with the minds asleep as some in Congress would have us do. Oh, boy. 1987. He fires everybody.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Everybody's gone.

[James Petregallo]

He's just firing him. Everybody firing people off. His attorney, May, is appointed to be a judge.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh.

[James Petregallo]

Now J.D. wants him to stay on, but May says, I'm gonna be a fucking judge, stupid. This is way easier. I'm doing that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Much more money.

[James Petregallo]

This is. I make more money. They get to be a part of better clubs. That's cool. Charbonneau says, I'll represent myself, damn it. And the judge says, no, you won't. And they appoints him another attorney. This is Greg Fuller. Fuller asks for a new trial based on Golden Bennett's quote, clairvoyance and supernatural phenomena defense strategy, which is fair. The judge denies that that at all the judge said about him. So after this, this Fuller guy that he's appointed, after the judge denies it, JD fires this lawyer too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's gone now too.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So the judge warns him, you've already gone through several lawyers. Your rights have been more protected than the victims. She didn't have any lawyers.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right?

[James Petregallo]

That's what he says. 1987 Appeal the Idaho Supreme Court for ineffective assistance of counsel. This is for the psychic issue. They said that he incorporated clairvoyance seances and spirit communications into his defense strategy planning. Which, by the way, he denies completely. That lawyer.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Gotta say that. But the lawyer put all these claims that he incorporated all this stuff. The claims were highly specific to his early defense work on the Charbonneau case. And they said the details presented as evidence that Bennett's defense was compromised based. Were based on reliance of non evidentiary supernatural sources rather than standard investigation or forensics generally. You don't have a seance to figure out your defense strategy here. Now he. Goldie described the allegations as clairvoyant crap and said that Fuller was grasping at straws. He vehemently denied that he developed or based any part of the defense on a seance conducted by niece or on spirit communications from his investigator. Wow. He later said that he never believed in such phenomena and that the claims were fabricated or exaggerated for post conviction purposes. But his own assistant, like his own secretary, said it. So it's kind of tough. Interesting. So they find all this. He denies it now because of all of this. Because they're saying, you know, that's a. It was a big part of his defense. His sentence is overturned. Really? Overturn the sentence now, the conviction still stands, but no more death sentence. That's overturned. Yeah. Charbonneau said also that he fired his attorney, Fuller because he was, quote, involved in a conspiracy with Jerome county against him. Okay, okay. More legal wranglings here. The prosecutor drops out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

John Horgan, he withdrew from the case. The judge. This is so weird. Another. I'll read from the article. Another round of musical attorneys has left Jerome County Prosecutor John Horgan without a seat in the Jamie Charbonneau murder case. Horgan withdrew from the case last week. Fifth District Judge Philip M. Becker said. Said Becker said, quote, he felt if Charbonneau didn't want him, he'd get off the case. I guess he was. Oh, because that's. He was okay. Apparently. I think he used to be a prosecutor. He was. No, that's what it was. Oh, boy. He was Becker's law clerk during the original trial. Oh. So he's saying he can't now be the resentencing guy as well. So whatever this guy said, I don't care. I don't have to do it. It. July 27, 1988. Some guy on the radio here. Corrections Board Vice Chairman L. James Kootnik still supports the death penalty, but from a practical point of view of the Twin Falls radio personality admits it just doesn't pay off. He said it costs too much to execute a murderer, Period. That's it. And that's the truth. That's. That's it. It doesn't pay just for. I get victims families and all that, but just for one family to go. I feel better now. That is not worth us all paying millions of dollars for. It's just not. I'm sorry. You can feel a little better. You don't get to feel that much better. If it's costing us that much money, just don't.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's a lot of money.

[James Petregallo]

It's too much. He said that this case here talking about. Jamie said estimates have run as high as $500,000 to get him through the appeals process. He said this is a county with just over 15,000 residents. Have to pay for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We can't afford that.

[James Petregallo]

So expensive. No. He said that he's been sentenced to life in prison and if he lives another 40 years, it's going to cost the state about $400,000. He said in a county like Lincoln with just 3,400 people, if they get first degree murder, they better plea bargain it down to overtime parking. So. April 1989, Idaho Supreme Court orders resentencing finding Judge Becker improperly admitted an unsubstantiate unsubstantiated letter from Marilyn's father as hearsay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So we don't know that he said it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, I don't know what it. I guess there was a letter. An unsubstantiated letter. I guess it's some sort of hearsay violation. It's very legalese type of deal. Now the state decides can't afford another death penalty case. We just can't. So they're gonna seek life in prison instead. Cause it's just money. Yeah, they can't do it. It's cheaper to give them life. Yeah. So they said they already paid out $400,000 only to see this original death sentence overturned. Now we got to start over again. So. May 1989, his mother still on his side, Misty Hamilton. Now she says, I know that Jamie did not kill her. None of the shots that came from that gun were fatal shots. He shot her 11 times, but none of them were fatal. Yeah, only the four that he didn't shoot were fatal. Okay. Wow.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Imagine shooting somebody 11 times, them dying and then you being like, those weren't the ones.

[James Petregallo]

Those weren't the ones, though. There was four others. Those were the bad ones. These were fine. She says. The paper goes on to say Hamilton, a full blooded Cherokee from Oklahoma, recently moved from eastern Idaho to mountain home to be close to closer to her son. At first she didn't visit much. She said, quote, it really upset him. He didn't even want me in there. But that doesn't stop her from her visiting anyway. She said, you can tell when it's time for a visit. So the Idaho Supreme Court ordered another sentencing hearing. And she said, you can't have that. She said, he can spend 40 minutes each day outside his cell. Your life is just there, slowly turning to nothing until you're nothing. As long as he's locked in up, I'll be locked up too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right.

[James Petregallo]

She said that he grew up a cowboy at heart with his family. He drove cattle through the desert and tried his hand as a rodeo cowboy. The wide open spaces of Charbonneau's youth are gone, replaced by prison, the courtrooms, and possibility of execution.

[Jimmy Whisman]

She says that's how it goes.

[James Petregallo]

That's when you kill somebody. That's how it works. She said, I'll always feel that America has the best court system in the world, but it has its bad points. 1989. Let's catch up with Tyra real quick. Here she is, grown up and married. Okay, who she's married to.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Holy Adamson.

[James Petregallo]

Nope. Even weirder Even fucking weirder. Okay. She got married at age 18 in October 1988 to Jimmy Griggs, who is Jamie's half brother.

[Producer/Announcer]

Duke.

[James Petregallo]

Jamie Dean fucking JD Charbonneau. Yeah, his half brother. His half. Are you. What the fuck, right? Is this crazy?

[Producer/Announcer]

Why did she do that?

[James Petregallo]

I don't. Cause there's nobody else around. Apparently the prosecutor's the ex husband's brother. This one his half brother. What is happening? Murder, you know what I'm saying? She's married with a child, living in Wells, Idaho by September of 1989 with JD's half brother. This is wild. 1989, JD is up to some shit in jail. Not bad shit. Cowboy poetry.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yep. It's so popular.

[James Petregallo]

Oh yeah, he says that's. I wouldn't say that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

So popular in the cowboy community. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Old men who live in the middle of nowhere like it. That's not wildly popular.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'm telling you, everybody that that does cowboy shit loves this shit.

[James Petregallo]

Eight old men in the middle of nowhere. There's not that many cowboys. You live in Arizona, so you think there's cowboys everywhere. In the rest of the country there's not cowboys, they just don't exist. That's a costume. Everywhere else you go, haha, look at you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No, I mean in New York City it's a costume.

[Producer/Announcer]

In fucking Oklahoma, anywhere, it's a costume.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Arkansas, all over those fucking places in

[James Petregallo]

the middle of nowhere, in counties with 14,000 people in them. That's what I mean. You could add up all those places and there's a block in Manhattan with more people. So it doesn't matter. It's not widely popular. It's just.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Those people love that shit, though.

[James Petregallo]

Those people love that shit. That's the perfect way to put it. Love it. Those people love that shit. That's exactly how it's. Right.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's very popular amongst those people.

[James Petregallo]

You fucking hit it out of the park. They say that he writes about wide open spaces and the myth of the West.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, there's a myth.

[James Petregallo]

There's a myth. One of them is Miss Idaho's grand lady with wide open space. She's the heavenly creation depicting God's grace. What is that? What the fuck?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Don't know what that means.

[James Petregallo]

Now the cowboy poetry this goes on to say, and the poetry, as cowboy poetry goes, isn't bad. Bill Studebaker, the College of Southern Idaho's assistant English professor, said, I think the person demonstrates meaning. The person who wrote it, his poetry, quite a bit of talent, he says. Now, under the arrangement with the Times News, Studebaker and the quote, Redneck Review of Literature publisher Penelope Reedy agreed to review and critique Charbonneau's poetry before knowing the author's identity. Oh. Reedy said that Charbonneau's poetry would be best read aloud. She said his poems are the kind that don't work on the page, but have a kind of theatrical category.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Sure.

[James Petregallo]

Charbonneau's mother said, quote, he had to dig real deep inside himself for that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All right, good. Manson wrote great songs.

[James Petregallo]

Oh. People loved it. The Beach Boys wanted to make records with him. So she said that her son's been writing his prison poetry for a year and a half and she's trying to raise enough money to publish her son's 42 poems in four short, short stories. Charbonneau's own drawings of Western scenes will illustrate the book.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's very, very creative.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. A publishing company in Shelley has agreed to publish the book. As long as somebody pays for it. I mean, we'll put it out. We're not just. You can use. That's basically, you can use our stuff. If you pay for all the materials and everything. That's not publishing it. Jesus, that's hilarious. Any profits will be donated to the March of Dawn. That's what the mom says. She says your life is just sit there slowly turning to nothing until you're nothing. That's her line she uses a lot.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's the idea.

[James Petregallo]

That's why they put you there. Yeah, exactly. J.D. they said Charbonneau succeeds in one area of poetry. Studebaker says his poetry has a sense of movement that carries the reader from image to image and situation to situation. This guy says, if you don't do it right in poetry, it fails. You can read these and not get lost. Now, Reedy says that Charbonneau's poetry is a little loose. A little loose. But when compared with his cowboy poet peers, Charbonneau has done all right. They say. They say all this shit sucks.

[Jimmy Whisman]

All this shit's real loosey goosey.

[James Petregallo]

Relatively. It's not bad. But, you know, that shit smells a little better than that shit. It's all shit. None of it smells like apple pie.

[Jimmy Whisman]

But none of it's Shakespeare, let's be honest.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, that's what they're saying. They said, it's not Robert Frost over here, but we got something. She said, overall, yeah, okay. So they said it's not bad. As a matter of fact, this is great. As a matter of fact, when you say cowboy poetry, I expect the worst. Studebaker says this isn't. Oh, yeah. If Charbonneau's poetry ever does become a book, it'll be a book about myths. Studebaker said, that's what it participates in, the myth of the West. It's certainly not a contemporary image. It's an image certain ranchers and certain cowboy poets are trying to maintain. Charbonneau reaches for the myth as he writes about Idaho and that lies outside of his cell. One is, could it be the Lord formed her. Her from a. From a. What is My newspaper's messed up. Seashell. Seashell blueprint. This is where I long, long to be till my final day spent. Here's one. They show up each morning right around 8, consistent as clockwork and rarely late at Joe's Caf? A Like Cafe. This is the.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This is a poem.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Where the coffee's real stout. They rely on the almanac for predicting a drought.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay. Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Stout. Drought. It's pretty shitty. He publishes a book or if he publishes. They're saying if he publishes a book, the county said, quote, we might ask for the proceeds for the public defender's budget. If he comes into some money, you bet we'll be looking for it. He does publish a book. I couldn't find the book, but I did find who had. Has says the collection is the Idaho author's file, the Boise State University Library, special collections and archives and the repository location is Boise. So this exists and this is in his book? Yes, is. Here they have it. They might be the only people on earth that have a copy of it, but it's somewhere. It's there. Yeah. If you're in Idaho, go find it. 1990, Judge Becker quits the case.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That enough?

[James Petregallo]

He grants the defense's motion for a new judge. And he says to the press, quote, I am so sick and tired of him. Done. Okay.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He shot a woman 11 times and

[James Petregallo]

wants to talk it over at least 11 times. More like 15.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Right.

[James Petregallo]

He muses on someday being paroled too. Really? He says that if the world. If he were paroled tomorrow, the world would be safe from him.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

He said, oh, yeah. They would be as safe around me as they would be around you. And they said, so you don't think you're dangerous? And he said, no, I am not. I know I'm not. And they said, how do you know? He said, I can't give you an answer for that, but I just know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You never heard of the cafe with stout coffee?

[James Petregallo]

Read my poetry about the. About predicting and depicting all of his poems have a predicting and depicting shortening in there. Yeah. Despite his insistence that he isn't dangerous, being paroled tomorrow is not what he wants. I don't want to come here and say, look, Jamie, you're free, we're sorry, goodbye. I don't want that. He said, I don't want to mock the system, that I want to work for me. I want the system to work for me, but I don't want it to be manipulated by politics. He said, also, there's been one sided press coverage. No, there hasn't. They let you put your fucking poetry in here. How can you call it one sided? Your mom gets to say anything she wants. He spoke to the Times News after a court appearance on Wednesday. In a private room at the jail with no deputies present, he said, I just think I'm at a point where I have no other alternative. I think people need to see the truth. I'm not saying that they're going to, but I need to at least attempt that. To Charbonneau, the truth is that an unfair trial led to a wrong conviction and he wants another verdict. He said the politics were making Judge Becker do what he did. Yeah, yeah. He said no. No. To maintain his decision. Yeah. He said, I don't think he has respect for. I think he has respect for the law, but I think right now he's trying to find ways to please everyone. The judge said, if I ever had some deep rooted feeling about a case, I'd get off. I don't let the public or anyone else dictate what I'm gonna do. And he did get off. So there you go. He says he doesn't recall the specific events of the day the murder happened. No, no. He says, you know, he says, he just doesn't. He said, and he doesn't wanna shirk what he deems as his responsibility. He says, I wanna live up to it, to the responsibility of my actions. I mean, it was irrational. I can't imagine it happening now even with all the fear and everything else. I'm six years older, I'm almost seven years older than I was at the time. Coupled with the emotions and the fear. Emotions controlled my thinking at that time, largely. I think I've overcome that. Okay, I have a poem that might convince you.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Does he?

[James Petregallo]

No, he says, that would be amazing. You're like, I want to hear that. That'd be great. He said, if you look at the case, who knows what they would do if they were put in a predicament to defend themselves. No matter what one person might say, looking from the outside in, might say, I would have done this or I would have done that. But you never know till you're in that predicament. I do know now, because I was inside there. I wasn't looking from the outside. I was inside looking at it. And it was a tragic thing. I wish I would have had the mentality that I do not now, meaning this.

[Producer/Announcer]

Is he inside or outside?

[James Petregallo]

I think he's inside. Think he's.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Maybe he was outside.

[James Petregallo]

It's really hard to be sure. He went around. That was some cowboy poetry right there. Sure enough, he said, and the heat of that moment, and then I would have been able to think it through and make a proper judgment. Oh. He said that Marilyn did care, and he cared about each other. He said we did things to each other that were morally wrong, if you want to label it some kind of wrong. Wrong, yeah. Beating and shooting each other, that's morally wrong. You beat her, she shoots you. That's all not good. The fuck are you talking about?

[Jimmy Whisman]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Morally wrong. He had quotes on it, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

We are vicious towards each other, and one of us wound up dead.

[James Petregallo]

So you know how that is. If you want to call that morally wrong.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's all in the wash. Really?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, really. It all washes on out. He said we all have good sides and bad sides, and Marilyn was not exempt from that. There was good in her. She was a very sweet person sometimes, but she could also be very ornery and mean. You know, ornery like a. Like a wild horse that the government paid me to count.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And sometimes you have to shoot those people.

[James Petregallo]

Yep. He said, I'm not condemning her. It's just a fact of life. Wow. And his mom says he's totally innocent and says, quote, jamie's been a political pawn. It's never been a case of who's right and who's wrong, who's guilty and who's not. Jamie's been a pawn. Why is she. I don't get it. She really believes in him now. Marilyn's parents, they think differently. Yeah. They said, I don't have a. This is, I believe, the dad. No, this is Mary, the mom. I have a lot of bad days, but I'm not going to let Jamie destroy us. That's what he wants. We're not over it, which we never will be. Everybody told me it would get better, but not much. She said, he blames everyone else. That's the way he always was. He just thinks he's got to have control. I think if he ever got out, he'd have to take control of someone else, probably. Yeah. He says he misses the rodeo life.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, I miss it.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Boots and buckles, gold.

[James Petregallo]

The what?

[Jimmy Whisman]

And the knuckles.

[James Petregallo]

I miss it. I miss the buckles and the knuckles. They go on in this paper article to say, having published a book of cowboy poetry, the former rodeo bullfighter. Now he's a bull fighter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's a bull fighter.

[James Petregallo]

Bullfighter now. Yeah. He's a fucking matador. Is now writing a novel inspired in part by his life and his dreams.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, boy.

[James Petregallo]

What? Music about rodeo life provides another release. He says, I listen to music that takes me back. That kind of takes me out of here. I don't think I could cope here without it. And he says, I miss rodeo life a lot. I miss that kind of life. I like the mountains and the wide open spaces. He said he holds faith that he'll be free one day. He said, if I didn't, I might as well forget. Yeah. They said, well, when will you be free? And he said, I don't know. I don't have any idea. I don't know. I don't know.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I don't know.

[James Petregallo]

I don't know. In other words, October 1991. The court has something to say about when he released, and it is. You, sir, may keep fucking off. Life in prison without the possibility of parole.

[Producer/Announcer]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

Keep fucking off now. Okay, this is in a revision of that. Now. They say, might he be rehabilitated. Blah, blah, blah. They said, we didn't think about that when thinking of reaching that decision. It was just a drop to that. Now he's 31 years old. Life without. Whoa. In the 90s, the Supreme Court of Idaho upholds the sentence in 1993, the life sentence. He files another petition, another petition. It's all denied. He's writing more poetry. He takes walks in the desert in handcuffs and flip flops with a sheriff because the jail has no exercise yard. Okay, boy. They said inmates are guaranteed five hours of exercise a week. So every few days, the sheriff would drop in on Charbonneau, tell him to put on his coat, drive him to a remote desert location and let him walk around in circles in handcuffs and flip flops.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I can't believe that.

[James Petregallo]

That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Like, he can't get away out here.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I'll catch him.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. They said that the high desert dust, the moon dust. The sheriff wore boots. They would talk like two men on a strange, sad date. That's what they were like. That's what the paper said. The sheriff said he just wasn't trying to get sued. I gave him his five hours. Yeah, that's how it goes. September 24, 1998. Tyra's dead. What? At 28 years old.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What happened?

[Producer/Announcer]

Do we know?

[James Petregallo]

She had an asthma attack, apparently. Wow. Isn't that crazy? That's fucked up.

[Jimmy Whisman]

That's horrible.

[James Petregallo]

That's horrible. That's like the guy, the Irish guy in North Carolina's first wife died of that asthma attack. She also, from what I saw, had a son named Jed who died in 2003 at age 8.

[Jimmy Whisman]

This family is cursed, man.

[James Petregallo]

It's sad, man. Jesus. 2001. There's a statement from a former sheriff named Larry Gold. He was a sheriff, I believe, from. He was Jerome county sheriff from 89 to 93. He provided a 2001 statement alleging knowledge of a. Of a letter that Tyra wrote that's being suppressed or targeted for destruction by the courthouse staff.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Okay.

[James Petregallo]

The captain here or the chief of deputy alleged in statements to have discussed the letter and potential destruction. Another document suggested that a guard at the Idaho Department of Correction was asked to monitor Senator Charbonneau's legal mail and specifically intercept letters from Tyra or from Larry Gold, the sheriff. Hmm. They said, even if, you know, it's crazy that they would do that. 2002. JD's mom has an affidavit. This is claiming that Tyra recanted during the original trial and said prosecutors and deputies instructed the girls to withhold info about guns and a holster. That Tiffany was involved testifying at sentencing. She did, but she made no disclosures with that. Okay. They said. Okay, now 2011 is when the letter. The Tyra letter comes out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Okay. A 1989 letter to Judge Philip Becker postmarked Bruneau, Idaho. It was discovered in 2011, she claimed prosecutors and a detective pressured her to falsify or withhold information. That's what they say. They say the letter generally alleges that the police and prosecutors pressured Tyra to give false testimony regarding the circumstances of her mother's death and that some of the things in her statements to the police were not all true. According to the letter, on the day of Marilyn's murder, Tyra gave a statement to Officer Dreisel, who told her to, quote, quote, only say certain things so that her statement wouldn't be confusing and who instructed her to say certain things that were not really true. The letter provided the following new version of what had happened on the day of the murder. The Letter states that on the morning of 7-1-84, Charbonneau was at the house and told Tyra that the wrangle horse was waiting on her. Yeah, I wouldn't even. I go, and what does that mean? Would I have to do something for that? Which was a phrase he used to tell her when she overslept.

[Jimmy Whisman]

The wrangle horse is waiting on you. Meant you've been sleeping too long.

[James Petregallo]

You slept too long. It's sitting out there waiting. It's just sitting out there going, like, kicking its ass.

[Jimmy Whisman]

I need to wrangle. God damn it.

[James Petregallo]

Marilyn then entered Tyra's bedroom and gave her a big box wrapped in decorative paper. And inside the box was a new.22 caliber rifle. Rifle. The letter claimed the rifle was a graduation gift from Charbonneau, like he said. The letter stated that Marilyn then took a bath and got dressed and that she told Tiffany and Tyra that she was going outside to help Charbonneau with the horses. Tyra went to take a bath, and shortly after she heard gunshots. Tiffany then came running into the bathroom and screamed at Tyra to get dressed. Tiffany grabbed Tyra's new.22 caliber rifle rifle and gave Tyra one of Marilyn's.22 caliber pistols. So they went out there like the fucking. Yeah, this is crazy. Like the Earp boys and shit. Ready to fucking have a showdown.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Disarm the cowboys and.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, the girls then went outside and hid behind the sheep wagon. Tyra could see Marilyn in an alleyway by a feed canal, but she did not see Charbonneau and could only hear his voice. Tyra heard Tiffany shoot the rifle while they were behind the sheepworld wagon. Startled by the sound, Tyra accidentally fired the pistol. Tiffany then told Tyra that Marilyn had taken a different.22 rifle nicknamed Calamity Jane with her when she went outside with carbon guns.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Got a name?

[James Petregallo]

Now go ahead and name your good new gun, darling. Here you go. The letter further states that a few days after Tyra gave her statement to the officer, a different officer, Larry Webb, visited Tyra at her grandfather's house. Officer Webb. Webb told Tyra that she had forgotten to write down some important things in her statement. He instructed Tyra to add that she and Tiffany had heard six or eight more shots. After they went back into the house, Tyra signed another statement to that effect, even though she knew it was not true. The letter also recounted an alleged incident in which Mark Hawes, the new prosecutor from Boise, as she put it, told Tyra that she needed to get rid of Marilyn's Calamity Jane. Right. The letter stated that Tyra did not know why Hawes had asked her to do this, but that she, along with her grandfather and uncle, buried Calamity Jane behind a potato seller. After the signature line. The letter contained a postscript stating that Tyra was in Brunel, Idaho, for a cowboy benefit and street dance. Then she'd be back to Jerome the next week. Now, family members, including the Arbaugh relatives, absolutely dispute the authenticity of this fucking letter.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Where did it come from?

[James Petregallo]

This is fake. She's been dead. Dead? Yeah. 14 years. And now you pull a letter out of your ass that completely. Not even completely exonerates you, but just makes it look like these kids are up to a lot more than that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Looks like two daughters shot a woman while you were, what, standing over her?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Why would two daughters shoot a woman while a fucking walk. Wanted felon who just raped or was standing there. Wouldn't you shoot him if you're gonna. Ready? If you had a bloodlust, wouldn't you go, this guy's the perfect guy to kill. He's a fucking rapist. Who the cops were after. June 2011, there's a new judge and a new trial. Here we'll talk about. The case is assigned to a different judge, Judge Robert Elgee, or Elgy. He ruled that the letter was genuine and that Tyra did write it. Based on what? I don't have any fucking.

[Jimmy Whisman]

How the fuck does he know?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, it's interesting. Now, the Idaho Attorney General's office conceded the letter was written by Tyra because the judge said it was. The family called it a forgery, though. March 2015, this judge vacates JD's conviction and orders a new trial. He found the letter either constituted a brady violation, which is suppression of exculpatory evidence. Evidence that or newly discovered evidence warranting relief. Either one. He said the state's hands are dirty and compared the letter to a video of a police officer shooting an unarmed man in the back.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yikes.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. He said the state tried to keep this man locked up in a dark corner of its prison until he died. And then the judge said, this letter will shake your faith in all you believe about this case. If it's real, that's. But we don't know that. Now, the bond was set at. Now there's a bond on him set at $20,000. The AG's office fights it. The Supreme Court denies the AG's request for a stay, and on May 18, 2015, he walks out of the Jerome County Jail. Paroled. No. Under bail, awaiting a new trial. Yeah. His family members, they said, looked visibly relieved and obviously happy to see him walk out the doors after all this time. He was 55 years old.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Gonna stand this trial.

[James Petregallo]

Well, another attorney said it's quite an adjustment to be released after 31 years of incarceration. Jamie Charbonneau has got a lot to learn to cope with. He has to learn how to drive a car again. And all those things that we take for granted.

[Jimmy Whisman]

His protein.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And learn how to use a fucking cell phone.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Yeah.

[James Petregallo]

Here's an iPhone. Figure that out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Good luck, you piece of shit.

[James Petregallo]

There you go. His lawyer said, when you have a case with as many bizarre twists as this one, turn back to have a serious look. It's absolutely a sign that the system does work. Like, see, look, they let him out. Everything's fine.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Do your banking business now.

[James Petregallo]

February 15, 2016, in Star, Idaho. About 1:25pm, he calls 911 and says, this lady tried to kidnap me. Remember that? Yeah. Yep. Well, this lady actually ran away. He's got a fucking crossbow and crouching in her closet. She escaped by telling JD she needed to step into another room real quick and get something. And she ran out of the house, barefoot, to a neighbor's house and called 911 in February while he was standing there with a cross. Yep. Wow. She said she came home. That's where he was. She said she ran out of her home, called 911. The crossbow and arrows were found dumped in a field across the street from her house. That sounds familiar, doesn't it? Yeah, it was a wheat field, too. Same exact.

[Jimmy Whisman]

No kidding. Well, I mean, that's probably all the fields are up there.

[James Petregallo]

That's just wheat. Yeah, wheat or potatoes. They said the police had Charbonneau on surveillance at a gas station during the time he said he was being held hostage. So he definitely wasn't kidnapped. The woman had been out of town during part of the alleged captivity and had company at the house. So there is no way he was kept in this house. Not only is he out, she wasn't even there most of the time.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Did he break in to try to. And then she found him, and then he just had to find a cover story fast.

[James Petregallo]

Yes, exactly. When she got away from him and called the cops, he goes, oh, fuck, I better blame it on her. Yeah, just like he did with Marilyn. He said, she was going to shoot me. I had to. Then before the break in, they found out that JD had visited the FBI office in Boise to report that his ex girlfriend, this lady, was illegally selling liquor without a license and that she had, quote, Mafia ties. What? It is fucking rural Idaho. What are you talking about, Mafia ties?

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's been in prison too long.

[Producer/Announcer]

Wow.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. The FBI laughed at him and he left and. And then this happened. He went to settle it himself with a crossbow. Wow. The bond is set at $1.5 million for this. May 2017. The court unanimously reverses the previous judge's order granting a new trial. They said the successive post conviction petition was procedurally barred. The same core issues, recantation of testimony, brady violations. That claim that Tiffany found fired the fatal shots had been raised and rejected. In his third petition for post conviction relief in 2002. He couldn't raise them again in a different form. Oh, can't just do that.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's already been rejected. Whether the letter exists or not, it's immaterial.

[James Petregallo]

Immaterial doesn't matter. Completely fucking immaterial. Yes. And that the Tyra letter was riddled with credibility problems that contained internal contradictions, including a reference to attending the Pinto Bennett street dance in Bruneau that actually occurred 10 days after the letter was supposedly written. They fucked it all up. It contradicted the forensic evidence because all bullets matched the Remington, none matched the Ruger. It contradicted Charbonneau's own trial testimony about how the shooting occurred and couldn't be cross examined because Tyra was dead. They said that the reason the judge earlier who threw out the case said the reason Charbonneau didn't have the letters in because the state concealed them. But in its ruling release, the Supreme Court said the letter from the victim's daughter was too contradictory to be considered and also addressed the same arguments made in his third appeal. They said he cannot raise the same issue over 13 years later. Based upon statements from Tyra in a different form. Charbonneau admitted shooting Marilyn with the Remington rifle while she was unarmed and running away from him. He admitted that he wounded her after. After which she was sitting on the ground. He admitted that he had sole control of the Remington rifle from the time he shot her to the time that he threw it into the wheat field. The forensic evidence showed that she was shot at least 14 times with that rifle and that she was shot one additional time, probably with that rifle, but they don't know. And that she was hit by three bullets coming from her rear. And that the killing shots hit her upper chest and that she was not shot either in the head or with a.22 pistol, as he had claimed. Wow. Interesting. Now, third, there was no proven Brady violation, no clear evidence that the prosecutors knowingly possessed or suppressed the letter at the time of trial or subsequent proceedings. The chain of custody for the letter was murky at best. And fourth, even if the letter were admitted, it would not undermine the confidence in the verdict. Charbonneau himself admitted to shooting him. And ballistics confirmed the conviction is reinstated. Life without parole, and it's dismissed with prejudice as well. And he's going back to prison. And he's fucked. And he still has a trial for the crossbow thing.

[Producer/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Whisman]

And had he not been that judge that let that shit slide, should be in so much trouble.

[James Petregallo]

That's wild. That was a wild.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You let this man out and this shit happened.

[James Petregallo]

Wow. Within nine months, he was hiding in the closet with a crossbow because she rejected and had an order of protection against him. Wow. He's found guilty of burglary and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. The sentencing, according to the press release, they said in both cases, Charbonneau brought a deadly weapon within days of the attack, bought the deadly weapon within days of the attack, laid in wait for each victim, left the deadly weapons in adjacent fields, and then claimed to be the victim.

[Producer/Announcer]

He bought a.

[James Petregallo]

They matched up. Yeah. For this, like, two days earlier. Because he couldn't buy a gun. Probably because he was.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Bet you're right.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. You, sir, may fuck off. 25 years there, too.

[Jimmy Whisman]

He's gonna get out, James.

[James Petregallo]

No. 10 years for the burglary, 15 for the assault. The judge orders the prison sentence run consecutively to his murder conviction.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Oh, it's over for this man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. So even if they. Yeah. Life without parole plus 25.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Holy.

[James Petregallo]

2023. And four federal habeas. Challenges followed, including filings in the 9th Circuit in 2023 and 2024. Nothing has succeeded. He remains incarcerated in the Idaho system. Wow. There you go, everybody. That is Idaho, Jerome, Idaho. And quite the goddamn crazy case. You didn't think you were going to hear cowboy poetry today.

[Jimmy Whisman]

What a terrible person.

[James Petregallo]

He seems like a real bad guy who has.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Seems to have an mo, you know? Like, if there's ever an mo, that guy's got one.

[James Petregallo]

A thing he's doing, for sure. Yeah, Absolutely.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Just a jealous, insecure, small man.

[James Petregallo]

Possessive. Jealous.

[Producer/Announcer]

Perhaps.

[Jimmy Whisman]

A lot of those guys that flex about masculinity have the least amount out, you know what I mean?

[James Petregallo]

Yeah. Whenever I see, like, the real cuz, like, I don't know, we're like, guys yeah, we play sports and do and stuff like that. We're not, like, we're not one of

[Jimmy Whisman]

those guys running out there with. With pictures of my biceps.

[James Petregallo]

No. But when I see guys like, yeah, like that, you are. You want penis so bad. Say it. So go get it. Just go get it. Stop pretending all this. Stop. Just drop it all and go find the biggest dick you can and suck it, my friend. Right on it like a big old lollipop.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're gonna be disappointed, man.

[James Petregallo]

Yeah, just let it out, man. Just let it out. Let it out.

[Jimmy Whisman]

You're gonna be so sad.

[James Petregallo]

So there you go. If you like this story, get on whatever app you're listening to, it doesn't matter, and give us five stars. If you're on Netflix, tell your friends, do all that kind of shit. Thank you for all that you do for us. Honestly, we cannot tell you how much we appreciate it. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com get your ticket. Tickets for live shows. We are this week, actually, March 6th in Durham, North Carolina. North Carolina, Carolina theater. March 7th in Atlanta at the Tabernacle.

[Producer/Announcer]

Two big theaters come out.

[James Petregallo]

Two big great theaters. And then March 21st, one of the best comedy clubs in the country here. Stand up live in Phoenix. We're gonna be doing your stupid opinions live, and it's gonna be fucking hilarious. So do that. Also, Denver's got some tickets left. Royal Oak, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Dallas, San Jose, Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown, Boston. Get in there and do that. Shutupandgivemerder.com as all you need to know as far as the calendar and the dates. So come out and see us for a live show. Definitely follow us on social media. Smalltown Murder on Instagram, Smalltown Pot on Facebook. Definitely do all that for sure. Listen on Patreon as well. That's what you need and you need that bad. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you are gonna get everything. We put out hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder, and you get them all this week. What we're gonna talk about, by the way, for Patreon, for Small Town Murder, we're gonna talk about this Alpine divorce thing that goes on. This is the weirdest shit I've ever heard of, and I never heard of it until like a week ago. And it's the weirdest thing in the world, where apparently men will just Take women places and just fucking leave them there. And that's the end of their relationship. And these are like, not like we just met. Like we've been together five years. They'll go out in the woods for a hike. Lady will turn around. He's not there anymore. He just left her in the. I don't know why the woods is important. Maybe they'll get eaten by a bear. They'll get lucky.

[Jimmy Whisman]

It's just a hiker. Is there a vacation involved?

[James Petregallo]

There's all sorts of different ways. And we'll get into all of it here. What are they called? Alpine divorce. There's a reason for it. We'll get into the history and everything. Patreon.com crime in sports. And you get everything. We all ad free as well. And you get a shout out at the end of the show here. So I think we should do that here. Right. About Jimmy. Hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people in the world who would never do any of this shit that happened in this story to us or anybody else. We hope for that matter. Hit me with them right goddamn now.

[Producer/Announcer]

This week's executive producers are Gary Howard and Joliet.

[James Petregallo]

Gary, Elena, what do you do? I said our newly employed friend. Gary. Good to you, Gary.

[Producer/Announcer]

He's doing great. He checked in. In Joliet and Malvern, Arkansas, wherever the fuck that. Alana Zemel. Alaina. Alana. She's wonderful. She's such a nice lady. Shelly Roberts. Melissa Bearden. Jason Fuller. Jay Fuller.

[James Petregallo]

Check in.

[Producer/Announcer]

Jay Full. It's been a minute. Todd Polford. Julie Cargill. Lisa Stevens. Happy birthday.

[James Petregallo]

Hey.

[Producer/Announcer]

Crystal Nitkowski. Nitkowski. She and all of her friends are at the Delicious Cafe James in Payton, Arizona. The delicious one.

[James Petregallo]

Great.

[Producer/Announcer]

Not those gross cafes.

[James Petregallo]

Not the Shit Burger Cafe that's down the street.

[Producer/Announcer]

Happy hour is in Mentone, Texas this week. Ben Sweetster. If that's not a last name, I don't know what it is. Other producers this week. Liz Vasquez. Peyton Meadows. Janice Hill. Ryan Bender. Peyton Meadows. I said that twice. Goddamn. Alexa Panetti. Megan.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much. Say it.

[Producer/Announcer]

Mei. Jen. Jennifer with no last name. Carmen Powell. Mo Monet or Monet. Or Monet.

[James Petregallo]

Monet. Probably Monet.

[Producer/Announcer]

Mo Monet. It's probably not a real name. Robert Boedicker. Barbara Hood. But Bowdicker is definitely a name. Christina Pavrada. Parada. Ambui. Megan Slay. Mark with no last name. Joni Kent. Sleepy paralysis. Sleep paralysis. Brittany with no last name. Heather.

[James Petregallo]

Heather.

[Producer/Announcer]

Today on Today. On Today and on. Emily Pittman, Pitman. Laura Lee Smith, Heather Gentile, Michelle McCauley, Nicole Yodice. Yodis. Yoda. Che Yodich, Roger Christensen, Little Duck, 2019. Shannon, Kobe B. Wait, I think it's Shannon with no last name. Kobe B. I think I just didn't

[James Petregallo]

press enter after Shannon and Kobe Bryant

[Producer/Announcer]

have both given us Kobe with a C. Oh. Kelsey Frank. Art Francis Green. Melanie Scott. Tam Spark. Robert Thompson. Steel. Fanin Steel. Fawning. Is that. Is that a. Is that a. An Irish thing? Matt Coiny. Matt Coiny. Is it styophanin? Whatever that is. Jack would know last name. Allison Ruth Hawthorne. Rachel Munoz, Laura Cor Quinters. Rach with no last name. Don. Nope. That's Dom. Anaya. Dominic Anaya. That's the person they signed up twice. Thank you, Dom. Kelly Murphy. There's no way there's a Dom and I and then another person named Dom

[Jimmy Whisman]

and that they both signed up for Patreon together.

[Producer/Announcer]

Independently.

[James Petregallo]

I'm going to guess not.

[Producer/Announcer]

Kelly Murphy. Luna Lynn. Melissa Stefanel. Stefanelli. Jamie Campbell. Carrie would know last name. Janice Hersey. Amanda Haman. Harmon. Harmon Wilson, Kyle Weeks. Jessica with no last name. Space Case. Evan H. Charles Morgan. Sherry Cortez, Laura Olson. Becky Jackson. Maddie Tate, Mara Wecker. Seager Arrow. Catherine Lazarus. Cayenne with no last name. Cayenne. Nicole Akers. Akray. Benjamin Van Dewarde. Sean Arnold, Thomas Griffin, Amy smollers, Jennifer Beckley, M.A. ma. Kamara Camara, Nat Chester. Rainey Mulch. No Rainey much. All right. Jolene Strobel. She got two patrons. Thank you, Jolene.

[James Petregallo]

Oh, my goodness.

[Producer/Announcer]

If you didn't, you have two. So sign back in and delete one. Eric Sharp, give one a spot. Angela Warren, Brianna Guild. Stormy Reuter. Reader. Ryu. Tracy Davis, Kelly Burns. Oberwan Kenobi. Oberwan James. Brandy Jones, Nicole Peavey. Melody Alton, Randy Runyon, Peter Siervin, Cassandra Kristoff, Rachel Hayes, Jennifer Ailman, David Hancock. Rachel Johnson. Yep. Wang in your mouth. James. Oh, that's definitely a person's real name. Tyrionna Tyler. Elder. Shivani Lane, Lisa with no last name. Cody Charlton. Or maybe Carlton. Vicki Haney. Heiney o'. Hara. Cynthia Lundy. Melissa with no last name. Becky Spanner. Big Joppe. Noah with no last name. Jamie Anderson. What is the rest of this? Kaya Wong. Kelsey Tyler, Tiffany Henderson, Brandy McBride, Heather Morvay, Ethan Merseth N. Langfeld. John McMillan. TH02051986. That's your pin number or your birthday. Shonda Mobs. Hailey Beckvar. Marvelous Madam Mimsy Casey Godbout Howard Hale, Haley Ali. Ali or Ali Modika? Gina. I just ate Gina's name. Gina Ardito, Gloria Filipo, Cherish Hansen Lee. The C. PHT in North Carolina TT Beth P. Ryan Goff or Go Gouch Gough, Sarah Matheson. Sarah with no last name. Maybe the same person. Probably not. Liz Vasquez, Peyton Meadows, Melissa Matt Nathan Rose, Ryan Bender. Happy hour said that Janice Hill, Cameron Delame, Catherine Chester Allison. Catherine Bethany with no last name. Jill Jefferson, Nikki Edwards, Matt Haunts, Scott Van Pay. Yep. Tiffany Lang, Jamie Blair, Jody with no last name. Greg C. Courtney with no last name. Travis Yoder, Bradley Carpenter, Jeannie with no last name. Hazel Tefe, Tiva Chad. Oh, it's Hazel.

[James Petregallo]

What the fuck?

[Jimmy Whisman]

I said Hazel.

[Producer/Announcer]

All right, Hazel. Chad Hainer, Don with no last name. April Wonder Eats Beth J. Chris McKnight, Jimmy Ragland Jr. Jacob Marshall, Matthew Demarco, Alexis Dutson. Dutson Sarah Harrell, Jean Luc Dufresne, Christine with no last name. Gary Schaefer, Tara Kirkley, Roger Oglesby, Dalton B. Simone, Gias Gas Glass R. The letter R. Tesna with no last name. Katie Wagner, Katherine Goodman, Thomas with no last name. Dusty Tucker, Taylor Parento, Meredith with no last name. Abby Kenny, Jerina Vaneste. Great. Dylan, 12:34 Steve Porter, Caitlin M. Katie with no last name. Dana Reyna, Monica N. Samantha Arnold, Sarah Price, David Moreno, Thomas Abel, Lori with no last name name. Morgan Moran, Jennifer Gillis, Lyles, Bliss Bailey, Amari, Elizabeth Rose, Sean with no last name. Heather Darby, Portia Beau Thorpe, Midnight Tomahawk, Amy Mae, Shane Stricker, Danny from down Under. Duke Daigle, Daniel Null. What? Daniel Nall Sr. Chris Nelson. How do you do? Daniel Nall. That's not nice. Massar.

[James Petregallo]

Tough one.

[Producer/Announcer]

Massar Messerano, Mallory Moon, Barry McCoy. Clearly a real name, Obviously. Brooke Boreham, Ashley Vill, Rebecca Buckdrop, Buckrop, Buck Rope, Bu Crop, Mary Martinez, Joshua Heron, Neva Neva, Neva Payne, Julie Poulson Fry, Jared Cook, Jared Zweige, Beth with no last name. Carlos Morales, MJ o', Keefe, Leah with no last name. Leia perhaps Michaela, Sm Kayla Flata, Alex with no last name. Emily. Emily Richards, Oscar, Carlisa and Gam 1970 er. Under there. Bonnie London, Mike Hans, Matt Williamson, April Ernst, Leah Hawtham, Scott Johnson, Matt and Chantel Rankin, Jess Campbell, Babylon Brooks, Kim Hambleton, Rachel Nielsen, Bradley Park, Eleanor Repole, Christian Fromm, Christian sluss, Colby Kingsbury, an Horton, Allison Asterline, Katie Beatty.

[James Petregallo]

What?

[Producer/Announcer]

L.J. gretel. Laura with no last name. Ali Trumper, Billy Sunset, Tara Petar, Brenda Purdy, Aaron. No, that's Ann Erickson and everybody else

[Jimmy Whisman]

that pays into the show.

[Producer/Announcer]

You guys are the best.

[Jimmy Whisman]

Thank you.

[James Petregallo]

Thank you so much, everybody. We appreciate everything you do for us from the bottom of our hearts. Anybody who's been with us, we goddamn appreciate it. If you want to follow us on social media, no problem. It's super easy to do that. Shut up and give me. Murder.com has drop down menus that just take you anywhere you need to be. So do that. Keep coming back and seeing us until next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure. Bye. Foreign. Is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. But potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.