The Orange Sock Murders - Breckenridge, Colorado

Summary

Small Town Murder Podcast Episode Summary: "The Orange Sock Murders - Breckenridge, Colorado"

Release Date: July 25, 2025
Hosts: James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman
Podcast Title: Small Town Murder
Episode: The Orange Sock Murders - Breckenridge, Colorado

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1. Introduction

In this gripping episode of Small Town Murder, hosts James Pietragallo and Jimmie Whisman delve into the mysterious and tragic events surrounding the "Orange Sock Murders" in Breckenridge, Colorado. Blending in-depth research with their signature comedic flair, James and Jimmie take listeners on a journey through small-town dynamics, historical context, and a chilling murder case that remained unsolved for decades.

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2. Breckenridge, Colorado: A Brief Overview

[03:13] James: "We're going to visit Breckenridge, Colorado—a picturesque ski town nestled in the Rockies with a population of just over 5,000."

Breckenridge, founded in 1859 following the discovery of gold, has grown into a renowned mountain town famed for its outdoor activities and high median household income. The town's history is marked by its transformation from a mining hub to a thriving tourist destination, often referred to as "the perfect mountain town."

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3. The Missing Persons: Bobby Jo Oberholtzer and Annette K. Schnee

3.1. Bobby Jo Oberholtzer

[10:02] James: "Barbara Burns Oberholtzer, known as Bobby Jo, was a 29-year-old woman who had recently celebrated a promotion at her job."

On the evening of January 6, 1982, Bobby Jo went out to celebrate her promotion at the Village Pub in Breckenridge. After the celebration, she decided to hitchhike home—approximately 16 miles away—in a severe snowstorm with below-zero temperatures.

[14:14] James: "Jeff, Bobby Jo's husband, had given her a heavy brass clip for self-defense, warning her to use it if needed."

Despite her husband's efforts to stay safe, Bobby Jo never returned home. By midnight, Jeff noticed her absence and attempted to contact her friends and the police, but Breckenridge authorities initially unresponsive due to the storm.

3.2. Annette K. Schnee

[14:42] James: "Annette Schnee, a 21-year-old from Sioux City, Iowa, was working as a maid at the Holiday Inn in Breckenridge."

On the same night Bobby Jo disappeared, Annette Schnee also went missing. Originally last seen at 4:45 PM, she failed to attend her shifts over the following days, raising alarms about her disappearance.

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4. Initial Investigation and Suspects

4.1. Alan Lee Phillips: The Early Suspect

[22:43] James: "Alan Lee Phillips, a mechanic and miner, was initially rescued by firefighter Dave Montoya during the snowstorm."

Alan had a history of violence, including a 1973 incident where he assaulted a hitchhiker. Despite this, his criminal record was expunged in 2002, complicating initial investigations.

[44:42] James: "During the search for Bobby Jo, an orange sock was found near her body, sparking theories that connected both missing women to Alan."

The discovery of the orange sock linked the two cases, suggesting a common perpetrator. However, Alan initially denied any involvement, and his DNA did not match the evidence at the time.

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5. Breakthrough in 2021: DNA and Genealogy

5.1. Modern Forensic Techniques

[54:05] James: "In 2020, advancements in DNA and genealogical research provided new hope to solve the cold case."

Detective Sergeant Wendy Kipple utilized the United Data Connect service to analyze DNA evidence from the crime scene. This innovative approach allowed investigators to connect DNA samples to potential suspects through familial relationships.

5.2. Identifying Alan Lee Phillips

[56:37] James: "Private investigator Charlie McCormick discovered Alan Lee Phillips' 1973 assault record despite its expungement, linking him to the 1982 murders."

Through meticulous research, it was uncovered that Alan had previously assaulted a hitchhiker, matching the modus operandi of the Orange Sock Murders. Despite initially lacking direct evidence, the combination of historical data and DNA matching sealed his fate.

[61:45] Jimmie: "They pulled Alan's DNA from a pizza box he discarded at a local Sonic drive-in, finally obtaining a definitive match."

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6. Arrest, Trial, and Conviction

6.1. Arrest and Charges

[62:24] James: "On February 24, 2021, Alan Lee Phillips was arrested and charged with two counts of first-degree homicide, kidnapping, and assault."

Alan maintained his innocence throughout the proceedings, despite overwhelming DNA evidence linking him to both murders.

6.2. The Trial

[68:02] James: "During the trial, the defense attempted to discredit the DNA evidence and shifted suspicion toward Jeff Oberholtzer, Bobby Jo's husband."

The prosecution presented a compelling case, highlighting the DNA match from the orange sock and the brass clip found at the crime scene—items directly connected to Alan's previous assault.

6.3. Verdict and Sentencing

[69:00] Jimmie: "Alan Lee Phillips was found guilty after a jury deliberated for four hours and 45 minutes."

He received two consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole, effectively ending his reign of terror over Breckenridge.

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7. Reflections and Aftermath

7.1. Community Impact

[64:26] James: "Dave Montoya, the firefighter who saved Alan, expressed regret over not recognizing his potential for violence sooner."

The Breckenridge community grappled with the revelation of Alan's crimes, feeling betrayed and shocked by his facade of normalcy.

7.2. Closure for the Families

[63:54] James: "Bobby Jo's sister Lori and Annette's sister Cindy expressed profound relief and disbelief at the case's resolution."

The families found solace in seeing justice served, although the trauma lingered for years.

7.3. Alan’s Death

[71:56] James: "Alan Lee Phillips was found dead in prison on February 27, 2023, having taken his own life at the age of 72."

His death closed the chapter on a dark episode in Breckenridge’s history, leaving the community to heal and remember the victims.

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8. Conclusion

James and Jimmie wrap up the episode by reflecting on the twists and turns of the case, emphasizing the importance of modern forensic techniques in solving cold cases. They also underscore the relentless pursuit of justice by dedicated investigators and the enduring impact such tragedies have on small communities.

[72:08] James: "Learn SOS that'll save your life evidently."

Through poignant storytelling and thorough analysis, Small Town Murder sheds light on how persistence, combined with technological advancements, can finally bring closure to unresolved mysteries.

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Notable Quotes:

• James Pietragallo [14:14]: "Jeff had given her something for protection... use this when you're hitchhiking and make sure to have this in your pocket."

• Jimmie Whisman [08:08]: "I got a painting in New York magazine, you bunch of bullshit."

• James Pietragallo [26:22]: "It's long and then shorter than that. It's time intervals."

• Jimmie Whisman [56:12]: "He's been arrested in 1973 for fucking picking up a hitchhiker and beating her over the head."

• James Pietragallo [64:26]: "If he'd have known he's a murderer."

• Jimmie Whisman [68:02]: "They tried to say that the DNA had been tampered with and mishandled throughout the years."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key elements of the episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the "Orange Sock Murders" case, its investigation, and ultimate resolution, all while maintaining the engaging and informative tone characteristic of Small Town Murder.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragalo. I'm here with my co host Jimmy.

[B]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[A]

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another Absolutely. And this is Crazy Wild edition of Small Town Murder Express. All aboard the murder train pulling away from the station. We got a lot of wild today. It is a case that we normally don't. I won't even get into it. I'll just say the case. We'll just state it when it's time. First of all, though, head over to shutupandgivemerder.com get your tickets for live shows. There's a few left in San Diego we just released. Then there is also Seattle, Philly and D.C. get your tickets now because they're going fast. And I mean they're D.C. and Philly are in December and they're close to sold out. So get in there, get your tickets right now. Thank you so much for doing that. Shut up and give me murder.com. you also definitely want to listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports, which by the way, is we are doing a long series on Randall Woodfield, the i5 killer. No sports, all murder. So check that out. If you like Small Town Murder, you'll love that. And also your stupid opinions where we make fun of people who think their opinions matter about things, which is very fun to do. We'll do that. Oh, it's a huge party. But get yourself Patreon, everybody. Trust us on this. Patreon.com CrimeInSports Just like the name of that other show you should be listening to. And what you're going to get there, anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get, first of all, a huge catalog of back episodes. Over 300 back episodes. You're going to get immediately upon subscription of bonus stuff you've never heard before. And you're going to get new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one Small Town Murder. You get it all this week for crime and sports, we're going to do some updates. BJ Penn has been doing some wild stuff lately. We're going to talk about him, Gervonta Davis also, who's been off the fucking charts lately, too. And then for Small Town Murder, we are going to talk about this Amy Bradley case, missing off the cruise ship. And they thought they didn't know if she drowned, but then there's evidence that she's actually alive still 27 years later. It's absolutely crazy. And I've been looking into it so much because it's just so interesting. So we'll check all that out. It piggybacks on the poop cruise. If you say poop cruise, what could go worse? This.

[B]

Well, this is it.

[A]

This is worse. So that's patreon.com crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of this show as well. That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody. What do you say? Let's all clear the lungs here and let's all shout. Shut up. Give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay, let's go on a trip, shall we? We're going to someplace we both like. You really like going to Colorado this week?

[B]

It's a lovely place.

[A]

We're going to Breckenridge, Colorado.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Nice place. Kind of a ski town. Yeah. North central central Colorado. About an hour and a half to Denver.

[B]

Yeah. Nestled in those Rockies.

[A]

Two hours to Longmont, Colorado, which was our last Colorado episode. Electronic murder. Breadcrumbs, which was very interesting. I remember those are really interesting. One, this is in Summit county, aptly named. A lot of summits there. Area code 970. Population here, 5086. And I assume that also depends on the season because in the winter there's a shitload more people here.

[B]

Probably in August.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's your. That's your permanent residency that lives here. Median household income here, pretty high. It's usually about 69,000. In the rest of the country here it is, $118,077.

[B]

That's what you get with a lot of hot cocoa.

[A]

Costs a couple of bucks to live up in those mountains. Median home cost here. Buckle up here. Holy shit. $1,066,800. That's median home cost.

[B]

Yeah. Everything from O Ray to Breckenridge. Oh, yeah, all that shit is bananas.

[A]

And it's been like that for 50 years, literally.

[B]

Yeah, it's gotten way worse.

[A]

Hunter Thompson, it was there when it was first starting and before it started, he moved up there. And I remember him writing about it tons, about the. He'd call it the rape of Aspen. Always like them selling off land for condos and, you know, breaking up estates and all that kind of thing. The motto here is the perfect mountain town. It kind of is what they say. I mean, it sounds like it. Founded in 1859, gold was discovered there. And in the 1800s, anywhere gold is discovered, that's going to be a place pretty soon. 1887. A 13 and a half pound gold nugget was discovered here.

[B]

13 and a half.

[A]

That's a big one, one nugget. So that's a. That's a chunk.

[B]

That's a bar, right?

[A]

Absolutely. 1898, Pug Ryan. Now that's a great criminal name. He's got a gang. Pug Ryan gang. Sounds awesome. Pug Ryan and his gang held up Breckenridge's Denver hotel, which was a big. That was their big fancy hotel. That was a big deal. And that same year, 1898, it snowed in Breckenridge for 79 straight days. @ some point in every day and for 79 days it snowed.

[B]

79 days.

[A]

Holy shit. Shoveling heart attacks there.

[B]

Two months and some change.

[A]

Fuck it. Forced the townspeople to build snow tunnels to get around town. They just said, well, fuck it, we live under the snow now. And they just started. I gotta go to the bank. I gotta go to the bank. I mean, I'm dig my way there. It's all I can do.

[B]

I need an apple.

[A]

And then 1963, the first. Oh God, how do you say this now? Uller Dag Festival celebrated in Breckenridge. Now it's known as Ullerfest Oler Fest. Well, Uller, I think we'll talk about that. Don't worry. Reviews of this town 5 stars Breckenridge is a town in the Rocky Mountains that offers an array of outdoor activities. Activities include skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, fishing and hiking. Everyone you meet is friendly. Yeah, they're all rich. Of course they're friendly.

[B]

They got nothing to be mad about.

[A]

How you doing? Fellow well off person with less worries than most. How are you today? Two stars here. I enjoyed the natural environment and the ability to participate in fun activities like snowboarding and hiking. This review is off the charts, by the way. It's crazy. This is like something we do. For your stupid opinions, it was nice to grow up in a mountain, however. I think you mean on a mountain. If you grew up in a mountain, you're a mole person again. Like other people.

[B]

Yeti.

[A]

That's strange. The community, let's say. Oh yeah, the town. However, I found people. I found the people to be derivative.

[B]

What does that word mean?

[A]

It's something you would say about music or like something like an art piece that's, you know, just kind of piggybacking on something else. Not a town, not human beings. How are human beings derivative? Every human being is derivative of every other human being. I found them to be derivative of their Parents. It's really weird they even look like them. There is a large demographic of first time locals who look for nothing more than to enjoy legal marijuana and be ski bums. Yeah, that sounds terrific. Of course, that sounds. I would love to live that life. How much more time do we have doing this show? That sounds great.

[B]

I'm 44 years old. I don't know if I got enough time to do that.

[A]

We're doing that.

[B]

God damn. That's the time to do that.

[A]

It's also difficult to fit in and be accepted if you're not into competitive sports and sports culture. As an artist. The people are off putting and ignore my accomplishments. Hey, ignore my accomplishments. Who the fuck are you?

[B]

I got a painting in New York magazine, you bunch of bullshit.

[A]

Ignore my accomplishments, you derivative fucks. Compared to athletes who are revered and given everything under the sun. The derivative thing. That's what art people would say. But not of humans, of art pieces. You say that of things to do. It is the Uler Fest is what there is to do. What they do here, they crown a king and queen of the Ullerfest. There's a long story. This is named after like some Norse snow God or some shit like that. That's what this whole thing is about. It's about some snow celebration. Two Breckenridge residents are chosen as the Uller King and Queen for their contributions to the community and their love of the snow. Not only you have to do like good things, you have to love the goddamn snow.

[B]

Yeah, that was very important.

[A]

That's weird. 3:30pm they're going to do the world's longest shotski.

[B]

Oh, you know what that is? That's where they take ski. Put shots on it.

[A]

That's when Polish people do shots. Yeah, we're doing shot skis, everybody.

[B]

You put a bunch of shot glasses on a ski and everybody. People line up in front of the shot and then you tip the ski and everybody shoots at the same time.

[A]

Oh, well, they're looking, they're looking for 1,401 people to help break the current world record of 1385 people currently held by Park City, Utah.

[B]

How big is that fucking ski?

[A]

I don't know. Hopefully we're talking about the same thing. I'm not sure.

[B]

It's gotta be.

[A]

Oh, then they have a parade also and you know, that's it. That takes over Main Street. So basically a king and queen and Schottzkiski. That's what the festival is. That said, let's talk about some murder. Holy shit. Let's get into a weird story. Okay. January 6th, 1982.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. It is a shockingly a snowy night in Breckenridge.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Are we all surprised? I mean, below zero temperatures, driving snow, a real cold January. Yeah. None of this March bullshit where it's, you know, 31 and snowing.

[B]

This is not as April 12th.

[A]

This is when it's windy and it hits your face and you go, ow. It hurts because it's like, feels like you're getting sandblasted.

[B]

Right.

[A]

7:50Pm let's start out with on this evening, snowy, dark, windy, freezing. Barbara Burns Oberholtzer. Her married name is Oberholtzer. Her maiden name is Burns. She's born Christmas Day 1952. Making her 29 years old at this point. Just celebrated her. No, she just celebrated. Just turned 29. She goes by Bobby Jo. That's what everybody calls her.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So Bobby Joe, somehow from Barbara Burns you get Bobby Jo.

[B]

Well, it's only better than bj.

[A]

That's not bad. She's married to a man named Jeff Oberholtzer and they have a daughter as well. Now, her and Jeff, they had dated for a few years, got married 1977. They lived in the Midwest and then moved to Breckenridge.

[B]

Wow, they did fantastic.

[A]

They're hippies because this is when they got married. It was 1977. They're super hippies. They both describe themselves as hippies there. So they loved the outdoor and the nature and they heard about all the granola crunching opportunities there is to have out there. So they go there. They live in Alma, which is about a half hour south of Breckenridge. At one point he said, this is. Jeff said, yeah, just seem like the place to be, you know us hippies. Let's go there now. Bobby Jo's sister describes her as free spirited, saying she loved life, she was happy wherever she was. A hippie. Yeah, sounds easy going. Jeff, in great hippie fashion and following all the hippie tradition, opened an appliance repair business. Like all hippies. That's what most of them do. They'll fix your fridge.

[B]

Being very responsible.

[A]

Yeah, they know how to. They know how to change out your freon. That's a hippie trait. It's always a thing.

[B]

But he did it in sandals, James.

[A]

Well, that's the only difference. Sandals and flannel. Bobby Joe worked for a real estate company, which again, nothing says hippie morals like real estate. But they are super hippies. I mean, you gotta work and they have a daughter.

[B]

So you Gotta make a living.

[A]

You gotta make a living. And the weird thing is the real kind of everybody's nice and everybody's a good person. She hitchhikes all the time. A lot of people in this town are still hitchhiking in 1982. Which, yeah, she would hitch a ride to work even. I mean, that's like. Not even. That's somewhere, you know, you have to be. So on this particular night of January 6, 1982, she had gotten a promotion that day at work. So she went to the village pub with a bunch of co workers because they wanted to buy her a drink for celebrate her promotion. So she called her husband Jeff and said, I got a promotion, you know, the girls want to take me out tonight. We're going to the village pub. And he said, yeah, fun. See you later. So that's how it went. So she's super happy, has a nice night. She, when she's leaving, she tells the bartender she's going to get it, she's going to hitchhike home. So see you later. I'm gonna go hitch a ride home, which is about 16 miles away from the bar, which is a long way to hitchhike.

[B]

That's a haul.

[A]

That's you got. You might need two rides in that mess. So, yeah, it's.

[B]

Unless it's a straight shot down one road.

[A]

Unless someone's going.

[B]

People are not gonna.

[A]

No. Unless they're going to that town in a night like this, they're not gonna go out of their way for you. Yeah. So she's gonna do that. She's gonna hitchhike. Now she keeps. Jeff had given her something for protection. It's a big brass clip, like a round one that you would, you know, like a carabiner. Yeah, kind of like that, but more round, not less. Kind of squared off. So gave her that. It's got a large brass ring attached to it as well. So she can hold it on her face.

[B]

Put your hand through it.

[A]

Yeah. And you can, you can use it as defense damage. So Jeff gave it to her specifically. Use this when you're hitchhiking and make sure to have this in your pocket. And if anybody tries to do anything, you fucking jack them up. Yeah, that's it. So Jeff described it as. It was a large brass clip, very heavy, with a large brass ring attached to it. And it was made for self defense. So she leaves the bar, gets her hat and coat and gloves and backpack, and trudges out into the storm. None of her coworkers would give her a ride home.

[B]

Her big night.

[A]

You know what? She got a promotion today. I'll give you a ride down the road. But no, she goes out there. So she goes out into the snow to hitchhike. Now, earlier that evening. Let's rewind in time to 4:45pm that day. So still getting dark and still very snowy. And there's another young lady named Annette K. Schnee. S C H N E E Schnee. Annette is born in January 16, 1960. So she's only 21 at this point, 10 days away from her 22nd birthday. She's from Sioux City, Iowa, originally Midwest. Coming strong over here.

[B]

No kidding.

[A]

She has two brothers and two sisters. She graduated from East High School in sioux City in 1978, where she was a member of the drill team. She was doing all that stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She graduated from Patricia Stevens College in Omaha, which she had. I think that's a modeling school, by the way.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, because she had gone to modeling school and she's only 21, so I don't know how she would have time to go to college and modeling school. But she's really pretty, this girl. Like extremely, like stunningly nice.

[B]

Insanely hot. Yeah.

[A]

Really beautiful. Like blonde and like that kind of model look of like, oh, Jesus, you don't look like a real human. Like very pretty.

[B]

82, hot.

[A]

Yeah. Feathered hair and all that shit. So she moved there now that night. She had just picked up some medication at a pharmacy.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. She had a prescription she needed, and I don't know if that's birth control pills or, you know, antihistamines or. I have no idea what she got. But she then needed to get home to change into her cocktail waitress outfit to start her shift at the Flip side Bar at 8pm so it's 4:45. She's got to get home, change and get to work. Now, she usually.

[B]

See you on the flip side.

[A]

See you on the flip side? Yep. Or at the flip side here. Now, she had worked that day also. She has two jobs. She works at the Double Chef. She works as a maid at the Holiday Inn, which. Where all models work. Usually you're modeling for one person at a time. So she hitchhikes from her day job at the Holiday Inn and usually hitchhikes home to change her clothes and then hitchhikes back to the bar, then hitchhikes over to the bar for her evening shift. That's how she lives her life here. Yeah. So at this day, though, she's right near the pharmacy trying to hitchhike to get Home to change, to go back. Okay. Now. So she goes out, leaves the pharmacy, goes out to hitchhike. Now, midnight will fast forward to Bobby Joe still hasn't made it home at. By midnight. No, no. Which is not okay at all because.

[B]

It'S been about that far that.

[A]

No, it's.

[B]

I guess if you're. If you didn't get a ride and you're walking through a snowstorm, you might not be home till 6am I don't.

[A]

Think it's possible to walk through the snowstorm and make it a lot.

[B]

You might not be. You might be right.

[A]

It's because it's literally below zero temperatures out there with wind and shit. I don't think she could have made it. I honestly don't.

[B]

So.

[A]

So she hasn't made it home. And, you know, Jeff's worried, He says, at home. And you know, but the thing is, too, people could have crashed in this. There's so many things that could happen. If she did get a ride, who's to say they made it right?

[B]

They're driving through variables in that situation.

[A]

They're driving through the snowy mountains. Anything could happen. So Jeff said he fell asleep watching tv and he woke up around midnight and noticed that Bobby Joe still wasn't home. And he said he thought something was really wrong. At that point, he got worried here. So he ended up going to one of the homes of Bobby Joe's friends that he knew was out celebrating with her that night. Yeah. And he said, I woke him up and I asked him where Bobby was and if they knew. And she said she didn't know. So. Yeah, he said that at that point he went out looking for her, just driving the road between there and the bar to see if she was trudging along the side of the road or, you know, in a ditch with a snow pile or anything, or see a car crashed out. Just something here. Couldn't find her. So he then went to the Breckenridge police that night and they told him that they can't do anything for 24 hours.

[B]

There's that old trope.

[A]

Well, plus, they're the cops. They're thinking, you don't know if she went home with some dude or some shit. We're not gonna go look around while she's sipping hot cocoa next to a fire, you know, blowing some guy.

[B]

That's because the storm's too bad or whatever. Yeah.

[A]

It's just not gonna a thing.

[B]

So you don't want us to walk in on that.

[A]

No. And she was an adult. She's 29 years old. So they said, you know, 24 hours. So then he said, okay, and he returned home. So that same night, the ladies went missing. Then. This is a reason why I'm saying that it's. Anybody hitchhiking is in just as much danger from snow as they are from someone who picked them up. This is the same evening. Now, there's a guy. There's a United Airlines flight from Denver to Colorado Springs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a guy named.

[B]

Which is a stupid fucking flight that is 60 miles.

[A]

That's 6:30. But through the snow and shit like that. Oh, great Point, Colorado. There's a lot of that shit. Because again, Hunter Thompson used to fly from Aspen to Denver.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes, because that's how it was. It made it easy. There was a flight from there to there. Otherwise, it was a long drive through the snow in the winter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it was a hard. It's a hard road.

[B]

Once you get west of Denver, it's fucked.

[A]

Those mountains dicey. It's real dicey. So this is a United Airlines commercial flight. Regular flight.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

There's a guy named Harold E. Bray, who's a passenger aboard the flight. So literally flying over the shit in the middle of the night. He's a sheriff from Jefferson County. This Bray just happens to be his job. He looks out. He's looking out the window as they're flying over the darkness. Which again, who does that? You know what I mean? But he is.

[B]

Put the fucking blinds down.

[A]

Nope, he's out staring out the window. Yeah. At night, there's nothing. You're seeing a reflection of you. There's nothing there. It's any light in there.

[B]

You see anything, you see you.

[A]

That's it. But he sees down below somehow. He sees flashing lights down there.

[B]

Okay. That are like flashing at the plane.

[A]

Just flashing. They're pointed up. And flashing lights from the middle of the darkness. The middle of the mountains somewhere. And he recognizes it's a Morse code SOS signal that's flashing in the light.

[B]

Not only does he know how to decipher sos and he's looking out the window, knows how to do it.

[A]

Yeah. If it's some just dude who didn't know shit, they'd be like, there's something going on down there. And keep flying. They wouldn't even thought about it. But this guy goes, holy shit. That's an SOS figure. Gets up, goes and tells the flight crew, hey, I'm a sheriff. There's an SOS signal going on there. Call in, have the Pilots call in down there and see what's going on. So the crew radios the faa. They dispatch two planes to find the exact location. Two small planes they send out into the snowstorm to find out exactly where it is. So they don't send the local fire department, you know, out all over the place. So within 15 minutes, the local fire department's on the scene.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They're responding and going out there. So one of the guys who responds is Dave Montoya. And he says, so I was down there, I had my radio with me. So I said, let me go check it out, right? He said, I'm thinking, who does that in the middle of the mountains? You get stuck? He said, I thought it was a tourist. I thought this crazy tourist, he got up here, now he's going to ask us all to save him. Great, right? Fucking people don't know what they're doing. So he arrives at the scene and he recognizes the driver. He knows him. Oh, he goes, oh, that's Alan. I know Alan. Alan, what the hell are you doing here? It's Alan Lee Phillips is his name. A l A N, by the way. And he says, I know. I worked in the Henderson mine with this guy. I know this guy.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You should know better, Alan. What the fuck are you doing out here? So now Montoya is also a miner and I guess a volunteer fireman as well. And Alan Lee Phillips is a mechanic at the. Mined at the mine, not the mind. So Alan Lee Phillips comes running up to him and says, man, I'm glad to see you. Which I bet you are, because it's below zero. You'd have died out there that night otherwise. So he said, oh, God, I'm saved. I'm saved. He was, like, so overjoyed, thankful. He had a big, giant gash on his eye. Right over his eye. He had a big cut on it. Now, it was asked about the injury because Montoya said, what happened to your eye, dude? Jesus Christ. He looks like you're bleeding like crazy. And Alan said, well, I got drunk. That's a good start to what happened to your eye. Always, you know, that's gonna be a good story.

[B]

Go on.

[A]

Like my friend that used to start stories with. So I was AWOL from the Navy, right? I'm like, this is gonna be good. I know we're in for something here. He said, well, I got drunk and I decided to come home as one does at the end of the night sometimes. And I didn't want to go on the highway to get caught drunk. So I went over the pass, because the cops ain't there. So he went over a very dangerous mountain pass that's not to be crossed in the snow to try to avoid a dui, essentially, which in the snowy conditions, if you're swerving a little, they'll probably think that you're, you know, sliding in the snow. Probably leave you alone.

[B]

Yeah, probably slippery. Yeah.

[A]

He says he hit his face on his truck when he got out originally. Slipped and smashed his face on the truck because it's so much snow.

[B]

And he's drunk.

[A]

And he's drunk. So Montoya is thinking. He said, I'm thinking to myself, quote, boy, you are really stupid. And he says, let me take you to the hospital here. And Phillips goes, nah, nah, nah, nah. I just want to get home. I got to work in the morning. Shit, I can't be going to the hospital. So, I mean, this is in all the newspapers because it's such an incredible rescue. Certainly the odds of it all happening the way it happened.

[B]

SOS flashlight in the first place is nuts.

[A]

Headlights, not flashlight. Headlights.

[B]

With the vehicle.

[A]

With the vehicle. The way the snow. He was stuck in the snow, pointed up, pointed up. So he just was flashing his headlights to whatever he saw playing and was like, maybe, I don't know, maybe they'll see it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Luckiest son of a bitch ever. And he's in all the newspapers. Pictures of him standing there, hey, all happy.

[B]

The guy that SOS'd a United flight, that's crazy shit.

[A]

So, yeah, he flagged down a United commercial flight, the old United 425 from Denver to Colorado Springs. The fuck, man.

[B]

And the plane didn't even acknowledge it. A passenger did.

[A]

That's wild. It was the middle of the night. Everybody, most of them were probably sleeping.

[B]

Yeah, it's probably on autopilot. And the pilot and copilot are probably.

[A]

Passed out and jerking each other off. You know how it goes. So he said SOS idea was desperation. It was Guanalla Pass. Guinella Pass is where he was stuck on and his rear end sunk into the snow. So his headlights were pointing up. It was almost 20 below zero.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

White out snowstorm, too. I mean, Blizzard, negative 20. You're going to die out there. He said he tried walking originally to a nearby ski area, but only made it about 600ft and turned around because it was too cold. And he said he was gonna die before he got there. So he's like, I'll get in the truck. At least I'm shielded from the wind, you know, What? I mean, that's all I can do. So he starts flashing his headlights. The Morse code. Three short, three long, three short, over and over again.

[B]

Is that what it is?

[A]

That's apparently what it is.

[B]

What's short?

[A]

Well, it's long. Long and then shorter than that. It's time intervals. Yeah, time interval thing. So he said he was just hoping anybody would see he was doing it for a while. He said it wasn't like he saw the plane and did it a couple times. He just kept doing it, hoping anybody would see it. And he was lucky. Now this guy seems like he's just blessed, right? I mean, sounds luckiest son of a bitch in the world.

[B]

And great that he knows that.

[A]

And it's weird because he doesn't seem to deserve this kind of karma because he's had a real weird past here. In July of 1973, there was a young woman hitchhiking on the south end of Breckenridge here. Alan picked her up, but instead of going where he was supposed to go with her, he drove her to an empty cabin, which is terrifying. That's how horror movies start.

[B]

Yeah. Cabin in the woods is an actual movie.

[A]

Being driven to a cabin by a stranger who's holding you hostage is maybe the most terrifying thing you could do. Maybe a warehouse, A cabin or a warehouse. One or the other.

[B]

Just any empty building at all, usually.

[A]

At least a warehouse. There might be other buildings around. You can scream to a cabin. You're like, oh, fuck, this is over, man. I'm in the evil dead cabin. This is bad.

[B]

Perhaps something long and hard that I can grab and fight him with.

[A]

No shit. There's only one thing that's long and hard here, and I don't want to touch it. Yep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he sexually assaults her in the cabin. And he later said, I saw a woman hitchhiking on the south end of Breckenridge, and I stopped and gave her a ride. And after he did all this, he told her, I don't know. I don't know why I do this.

[B]

He said, I don't know why I do this.

[A]

No, no, no. Not I don't know why I did this. I don't know why I do this is what he said. Which means this is a thing he does, which is common. So he. The woman goes to the police, and he gets caught and arrested. And he sits down with the cops and denies nothing.

[B]

Tells him everything.

[A]

Nothing. Yep. It said, I saw a woman hitchhiking, and I stopped to give her a ride over to Fairplay. And he says he, quote, stopped at an empty cabin along the road, pulled the girl from the jeep and then picked up a rock and used it to hit her several times. When the woman asked why he was doing this, he replied, I don't know. I don't know why I do this.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then he also sexually assaulted her. So. And we don't know the exact extent of that because it's 1973. And we'll find out later on why also. Hey, everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about the best night's sleep you're gonna get with Coop Pillows. Coopsleepgoods.com oh my God. Coopsleepgoods.Com get yourself the best pillows you're ever gonna have in your life. I don't care how you sleep, side, back, face, however you sleep, coupe pillows are going to help you so much. My neck is always messed up, right? These pillows help so much because they're adjustable. You can take stuff in and put stuff out. You can. It's so amazing. Get it to just how you like it. And the cooling, oh my God, the cooling. They're so cool. The cooling gel running through it. They're amazing. We really, really enjoy them. And you spend like a third of your life in bed. You should probably get a pillow that's customized for you. We did the smart thing and upgraded to the Coop pillows from Coop sleep Goods and you should do the same here. There's a sleep quiz you can take. That's an easy way for you to find the perfect pillow for you. There's a free pillow consultation. You get a sleep expert. It's going to help you optimize your sleep. There's 100 night free trial. It's amazing. And there they have 100,000 plus five star reviews including from us because they're so good. Five stars right now. Visit sleepgoods.com Smalltown Murder to get 20% off your first order. That's Coop. Sleepgoods.com Smalltown Murder.

[B]

Now back to the show he is given.

[A]

Now, you'd imagine that's going to give you a stiff sentence. You picked a woman up, beat her, dragged her to a cabin and raped her. That seems like stiff sentence. He is given six months in jail for that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Colorado, what the. I mean, I got 73, but holy shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Okay, plays the town that South Park's designed after.

[A]

Is it okay?

[B]

Yep. So Middle park and North Park.

[A]

That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, now that's Alan Lee there or Alan there. He is Alan Lee Phillips. So that's him. Now back to January 6th, 1982. Okay. The next morning, January 7th, 1982, Bobby Joe still isn't home. Now, obviously, if Jeff was worried at midnight, he's a little more worried by, you know, quarter to 8 in the morning here. So by at 7:45 that morning, which is like exactly 12 hours after she went out to hitchhike, he gets a call, phone call. He says, I'll give Jeff the floor here. Jeff says the phone rang, I think about quarter to eight. It was a rancher. He had found her driver's license and some of the contents of her wallet blowing in his driveway. And he said, oh, oh. Then I knew something was horribly wrong. So he rushed over, he said on his way there, not at the actual ranch, but on his way there, he spotted Bobby Joe's blue backpack on the side of the road. Jeff said, so he picked it up and grabbed it, is what Jeff claims. He also said he found two other items there. Bobby Joe's right glove, a tissue, also a tissue next to the right glove, both of which had blood on them. The glove and the tissue. Okay. So Jeff said, that's when I spotted her backpack in the snow and I got out of the vehicle and I went through the snow and that's when I found her glove in the snow and it was covered in blood. So that's what he says. So he says, okay, this is bad, obviously. So a search party is formed by not only him, but everybody else around and they all go out on cross country skis looking for her. This is like a serious mountain search party here. Around 3 o' clock that afternoon, they head out on the skis from the point where the rancher found her driver's license and wallet contents. So he said. Jeff said they went up with cross country skis to the pass. And then I. Then that's where they found her body.

[B]

Oh, damn it.

[A]

Yeah, so they find her body. Now we'll talk about her body and the condition. But not far from the body, they find something that's very strange. A thick orange sock, like a booty, almost like a real thick winter Colorado sock.

[B]

Yeah, winter woolly Colorado sock.

[A]

So they don't know. There's a detective there that says he doesn't know if this sock has anything to do with her or what. But it's close enough where they're definitely gonna bag it as part of the crime scene and everything. They get the bloody tissue now. Here we go. So they found. This is Jim Hartkey, Is one of the guys at the crime scene, Colorado Bureau of Investigation Agen. He said the body was frozen.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

Which it would be. It sat out there all night in the. Yeah, negative.

[B]

That's terrible. If that's your. That's your family. But that's great for the investigation.

[A]

Terrific. Everything's preserved. She was fully clothed. Her hands were close together. One of them had been zip tied. Okay, so apparently somebody didn't get the other zip tie on. Bobby had been shot close range. Twice in the chest.

[B]

Twice.

[A]

Twice. Now here's the other thing though. She had the brass key ring with the hook and it was found in the parking lot with blood on it. Oh, she used it.

[B]

She blasted somebody.

[A]

She fucking took some shot at somebody with this fucking thing. So they find blood on it and they go, let's hope that's somebody else's blood and not hers, basically. Now, the orange sock, they asked Jeff and he says, she doesn't have any socks like that.

[B]

Never seen it.

[A]

Never seen it before. So they're like, okay, that's strange. And the detective said, that other item that was found up there, the orange booty, it was like an ankle sock. It didn't belong. It didn't fit. Anything connected with Bobby Joe Oberholtzer. Why is it there? It's very strange. So super odd. And the one zip tie, it's just the whole thing's weird. The next day now, January 8th, the Holiday Inn looks around. They said, where the fuck is Annette?

[B]

We got no Annette. She's not cleaning.

[A]

Two days of no call, no show from Annette. That's weird. She doesn't normally do that. And remember she went to get a ride at 4:45 in the afternoon there. She never showed up for work. So a co worker calls the police department to say that Annette hadn't come to work for two days. And they said, that's very unlike Annette. She's very reliable and, you know, whatever. So they call her mom back in Sioux City, Iowa, and her little Sister Cindy was 11 years old at the time and said she remembered hearing her mother on the phone and watching her mother start to cry. And she said, I said, what's wrong? And she said, annette is missing. So yeah, now this is the time that detectives hear about Annette because they didn't know about her at first. They were just looking at Bobby Jo. So now they're like, wait a second. Two women disappear three hours apart from each other on the same night.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

In the same town. This seems, you know, little strange here.

[B]

Dead.

[A]

Yeah, this definitely Seems a little bit shady. So they go back and try to find out what Annette did and trace her movements. They trace her movements to the drugstore and they know she picked up her prescription.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then that's it. It's. She disappears off the face of the earth. Yeah. So they don't know what's going on. And one of the detectives said, knowing she hitchhiked, we figured somebody probably picked her up. We were all hoping she was still alive. You know, you keep that hope in the back of your mind, but you're thinking probably not. You don't want to think that though. Yeah, I would say so. They are really freaked out about it. The one detective said Annette was last seen at about 4:30pm in the afternoon in Breckenridge. Bobby Joe Oberholtzer was last seen about 7:30 that evening in Breckenridge. So they're like, this is too weird. Yeah. It's either they're connected or this is real strange here. And they said it was. It was an all out effort to find any information on anyone. So they said. Another detective said she went in to get some medication. She was talking to a woman that we've never been able to identify. And that was the last time she's seen. So where does she go? They look around.

[B]

Woman.

[A]

No Annette. They can't find Annette. There's no thing like Bobby Jo. No rancher calling saying, I found anything. She's just gone off the face of the earth. Disappeared for months. And so they don't know anything. Cindy, the little sister said, I know my mom would just say, I just want to know why, how. That's all I want to know. And nobody can give that to me. Nobody knows why or how. May have her written off as dead. At this point, pretty much they don't want to think that way. But she's missing. Months go by, months start to go by.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Even if she ran away from something, she'd call them. You know what I mean? It doesn't make sense. Now here's where shit takes a real wild left turn here. Remember Jeff, Bobby Joe's husband here?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He goes to the investigators on his own now. His shit's already, you know, he's a suspect in Bobby Joe's disappearance, number one, 100%.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A big suspect in this, in the disappearance. But he goes to the cops and he says, I have to tell you something about Annette. That Annette, lady that was missing also remember her? Oh, he said that he, quote, had. Has had different premonitions all my life. He tells the cops. Oh, Jeff, he says, and he has a very specific premonition about Annette's body.

[B]

And what is that, Jeff?

[A]

He said that, quote, I felt that she'd be found four miles from my house. From his house. Annette, who doesn't live there. They don't know each other. On the fourth of July, he tells them she'll be found.

[B]

Why do you think that, Jeff?

[A]

Well, when the night sky is lit up, it'll be easier to see shit, apparently. I don't know why he thinks that, but that's what he said.

[B]

It lights up better when magnesium and sulfur explodes in the sky.

[A]

Unbelievable. July 3rd or July 4th, he says that's where they'll find him. July 3rd, 1982.

[B]

Oh, Jeff.

[A]

Annette's body is found.

[B]

I don't like this.

[A]

A young boy fishing with his father who went off on his own to fish somewhere in a different part of the stream. By the way, sidebar. If it weren't for young boys back in the day, half the bodies that were found would have never been found outside. They just never would have been found. That's the tragedy of kids not being able to go out and do shit anymore and just go outside. Who's finding bodies now? Who's finding them? Used to be every 12 year old with a fishing pole is going to come across a corpse at some point in his life. But no, not now.

[B]

We're staying inside now, James.

[A]

Well, there's bodies. There's bodies stacking up everywhere. Look at Gilgo Beach. How do you. Why do you think that happened? There's no little boys just going through all that shit. If it was 1975, they would have been finding those corpses while they were still warm. They'd have caught that guy years ago.

[B]

Too busy playing Call of Duty, telling.

[A]

You, years ago they would have found that shit. So, yeah, he was fishing in a stream in the Sacramento Creek near Fairplay, which is about 23 miles from where Annette was last seen, by the way. And a young boy found her face down in the stream. So that Agent Hardke, he went to the autopsy and no bullet is recovered. But the forensic showed that Annette was shot in the back as she was running. They think it's a downward trajectory. So they think that she might have been running downhill toward the stream, trying to get away from whoever was chasing her. And they shot her in the back from a higher vantage point, like a through and through. Yeah, they said that. Yeah, through and through. Now, by the way, they found her face down, fully clothed in the Sacramento Creek. She'd been shot once in the back, exit wound in the front. So that's why they didn't find the bullet on a downward angle of about 30 degrees.

[B]

Pretty good angle.

[A]

It's not bad. So one of the investigators said it could be she was on her knees and it could be she was running downhill away from the person who shot her. One of those two things they said, though the evidence does suggest, even though she's clothed, it suggests a sexual assault of some kind. They said her clothing was found in disarray. Her blue jeans, zipper was broken. That's a good sign. And they believe that her shoes were on the wrong feet when she was found. So somebody dressed her again, basically, and then did this, which is disgusting. Now they figure out that the weapon used was possibly either. And this is a range here. I mean, could be a.38, a.357 or a 9 millimeter.

[B]

Pretty good sized bullet either way.

[A]

Either a bigger bullet, but I mean, that's a. You're not really narrowing much down there. But I mean, all they have is a hole to go on. And this is from six months ago. And she's been in water.

[B]

So things are going to be a.380 or a.40 also.

[A]

That's what I mean. There's a big range. So here's one thing they noticed though. Hartkey, this the agent again. He was also, like we said, at Bobby Joe's autopsy. He's at the autopsy and they're looking at wounds. They're looking at all this. And then he noticed something that he didn't notice previously. Somehow, quote, on her left foot, I noticed an orange booty. Yeah, think about that shit.

[B]

Woolly sock.

[A]

Yes. And in my mind I'm remembering the orange booty that was found at the top of Hoosier Pass, which is where Bobby Joe was found. Very close to Bobby Joe Oberholtzer's body was found. And I'm saying, quote, holy shit, this is amazing. This, these cases tie together.

[B]

Her sock is up there.

[A]

How is her sock. How does she have one of the socks and the other sock is up there, but not on the girl.

[B]

Right next to another body.

[A]

Yeah. So they believed this is. The detectives believe that Annette lost her orange sock in the murderer's vehicle. And it remained there until the murderer also picked up Bobby Jo and attacked her. And they think it's nothing more nefarious than Bobby Joe jumping out. And when she jumps out of the truck, the orange sock gets kicked out of the truck with her out too.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Or I Mean, those fuzzy socks. It could have stuck to something. It could have been.

[B]

What if she had static on that?

[A]

Velcro on a boot, Anything. You know what I mean? It could have stuck to anything. Static. You're totally right.

[B]

So your fucking fleece jacket you're wearing because it's cold out.

[A]

Yeah. So right away now, at this point, by the way, now that they think they're together, Jeff is a little less guilty looking.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Because I guess he had somewhere. He had an alibi for 430. So they think whoever did one, did the other based on the sock. Now, their original investigation, they believe the killer is a local due to the remote location where Annette was found. He said only a local knows where that is. Nobody's gonna come in here. Here's the fucked up part. Remember, we're saying, oh, they don't think. Now they think Jeff is probably not the guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When searching Annette's clothing, they find a business card in her jacket pocket. You know whose business card it is?

[B]

Is it Jeff's?

[A]

It's fucking Jeff's.

[B]

What?

[A]

What the fuck has here? Sock there. Her husband, his business card. Other.

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

This is weird, right?

[B]

What's his business?

[A]

Appliance repair.

[B]

Right? That's right.

[A]

Hippie appliance repair. It's appliance repair. But he lights incense while he's doing it. It's the same thing.

[B]

Sandals, refrigerant.

[A]

Yep. So now they bring Jeff in for questioning, and he denies knowing Annette at all. They went, don't think so, Jeff. Because they said, do you know this girl? He goes, never met her. And they go, business card.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How'd that happen, motherfucker?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then he's, quote, suddenly remembers picking her up while hitchhiking in November of 81.

[B]

Jeffrey.

[A]

Yep. And giving her his business card. He said, at the time, I was promoting my appliance repair business with those cards. I gave one to everyone.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So it was a new business. He said, yeah, he is suspect one, two, and three right now, obviously. But he volunteers for two polygraph tests. One state and, like a federal thing. And passes them both. Fine. Flying colors. Then later on, we'll just get Jeff going here. When DNA testing becomes available, he willingly gives his sample. And his blood type does not match any of the evidence, nor does his DNA.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

So Jeff didn't do it.

[B]

But what the fuck, Jeff?

[A]

How weird is that? That Jeff didn't do.

[B]

You're unlucky. Some bitch.

[A]

That's what you are, man. That is like. That's so Unlucky.

[B]

Never ever get addicted to gambling, Jeff?

[A]

No, it's over for you. Also, stop picking up hitchhikers. No one pick up hitchhikers anymore. So the case goes cold. Okay, 1984 comes around. Now Henry Lee Lucas, who is a horrible serial killer. We're going to do a bonus about certain weird aspects of that that I wanted to talk about because I'm got a lot of weird stuff on Henry Lee Lucas. But Henry Lee Lucas is very interesting because he confessed to like hundreds of murders that he didn't do just anything he saw. He'd be like, I did that one too. Yeah, like he didn't give a shit.

[B]

Give him McDonald's and cigarettes.

[A]

Exactly. He didn't care. So by 1984, he is the number one suspect for these murders now.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes, because they said he's. It's being investigated, that these deaths are connected, possibly because apparently he was around at that point. Apparently they believe at the time he had confessed to the murder of a woman named Deborah Jackson, who they didn't know her name until 2019, that her name was Deborah Jackson at the time. For decades, she was known as Orange Socks. Okay, that's a. Anybody who's, like, into true crime, Orange Socks is a. That's a murder victim. That's an unknown unsolved case. So she was known as Orange Socks because she was wearing fucking orange socks.

[B]

Orange socks, yeah.

[A]

And they said that this at the time she disappeared on Halloween night, 1979, or that's where she was found. That's the night she was found in a culvert off the I35, just north of mile marker 268 in Georgetown, Texas. Now, the medical examiner said it was strangulation and it was a homicide. And they said the only article of clothing she had on her was a pair of orange socks.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So that's why she was known as Orange Socks. And then DNA and genealogy found that her name was Deborah Jackson, actually, and she was 23 at the time she disappeared, and Henry Lee Lucas had confessed to her murder. So they tried to go back and investigate it, and they said she usually did maid work for hotels and stuff like that. I tried to track down those companies, but none of them are in existence anymore. This was the 70s. So, yeah, they said they tried to put together a timeline for her and really had a hard time doing it, but because at the time Henry Lee Lucas had confessed to this, they think Orange sucks. Maybe this is a. A weird thing he has. He loves socks, but he puts orange socks on people so that's why they were thinking maybe he did it. Now, later on, he recanted the Deborah Jackson confession. And they don't think he and a hundred others, they don't think he did it at all. So that ends up being nothing. But in 1984, that became a big. Oh, shit, do we finally have it. So 1989, a private investigator is hired by Annette's family, okay? There's no progress and they're fucking sick of it after seven years. And I don't blame them. So they hire a retired Denver homicide detective named Charlie McCormick and he charges the family. This is wild. He works the case for fucking decades. He charges them $1 per year, okay? $1 per year. Basically, I'll do it for free. He works on it every day. And he said that quote. As years went by, you know, we mused about whether or not we were going to die before we solved this case. 1992, the case is on. Unsolved Mysteries again. Another Unsolved Mysteries, they keep popping up here is unbelievable. Yup, they do an up segment on this. They were in Breckenridge shooting the whole thing. And they said, we. The detective at the time, this is 1991, said, we have no indication, no idea who did it. That's what they say on tv. All they know is that Olber Holzer was found on Hoosier Pass. She might have temporarily escaped her assailant before she was killed. She was a. They said that it looked like she was chased before she was shot in the back of the head with a large caliber handgun. And. Yeah, that's all they have, basically. It's kind of it. So 1998 comes around. Okay, and this is. DNA testing is taking, yeah, leaps and bounds. And investigators test blood found on various items for DNA and determine it belongs to an unknown male. Nobody's in the system, so they have an unknown DNA sample. But at least there's something to compare people to at this point. Now, if they ever do get a suspect, you can do this. Include or, you know, get rid of them. Exclude, exclude in a second. So in the 2000s, early 2000s, the Discovery Channel does some psychic horseshit on this show about this with some psychics bullshit. Hey, shocker, they didn't solve it. No big surprise. 2005, possibly progress. Okay, there's an anonymous tip. An anonymous tip comes in and names a suspect.

[B]

Who is it?

[A]

Now? They never find out who made the fucking call. But somebody called in and said, Alan Lee Phillips killed those girls. Oh, and fucking hung up. That was It. So that's. Remember Alan Lee Phillips, the guy that was rescued from the snow here?

[B]

SOS, man.

[A]

DNA technology in 2005 is still not perfect. It's good, but it's not what it is today at this point. So this lead kind of goes cold because they don't really have any other connection to it at that point. Then in 2020. 2020. 38 fucking years later, investigators hook up with the Metro Denver Crime Stoppers and the United Data Connect in 2020. This is a company that uses DNA to help solve cold cases. They take it and they, you know, look through because cops don't have the manpower and it's not their expertise to go through genealogy sites and all that kind of shit. Their expertise is to get somebody in a room and try to force them to say they did it. That's their job.

[B]

Say you did it, so I can go home.

[A]

God damn it. Gee, I've been here for 36 straight hours. Say it. So they said, you think about these two young, beautiful women that you've been seeing pictures of lying in the snow after being shot in the darkness by themselves, dying, basically freezing to death. It would make you not want to give up. Like Charlie didn't. Meaning the investigator there, that's the co founder of the United Data Connect here. And he said, and it makes you want to answer the question of who would do something so horrible to somebody else. They said the case has kept going because there's always something to do that as a good investigator or professional investigator, you couldn't ignore. If something keeps popping up, you got to keep following it, you know. Yeah, but we're talking about 40 years. And so they're like, is this going to help or not? So they. There's a detective named, a Detective Sergeant Wendy Kipple on the case at this point in early 2020. And she said, quote, let's try this genealogy thing. Maybe it can work for us.

[B]

Seems to work on.

[A]

Yeah, give it a shot. So she sent the. Because this is after they caught the, you know, Golden State Killer and all that kind of shit. So it's. They're. They're catching old killers on DNA all the time.

[B]

This is how they got coburger too, in a. In a second.

[A]

I mean, they're. They're solving cases from the 70s, right. In the late 2010s left and right. Because they finally can do it. So. Well, the problem is a lot of those people who killed were dead already. That kind of sucks. But at least they're dead. That's good. So anyway, they sent a DNA sample from Bobby Joe, from the Bobby Joe investigation, which is of they think of the killer. And they sent that to United Data Connect. And Wendy Kipple said, On January 9, 2021, I get a phone call from the genealogist that says, I have two more names for you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So at this point, they're like, we know that the whole thing is going to be DNA at this point. We're not going to get like witness, a witness to come forward 40 years later. So she said, I'll never forget the day I got that phone call and got those names. The names are Bruce Phillips and Alan Phillips. Lee Allen. Lee Phillips. Now, Alan Lee is now 69 years old and Bruce Phillips is his older brother. So they reach out to Bruce first. Now Bruce said, number one, he never lived in Colorado.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So that's one thing he said. But my brother, who I haven't talked to in years and years and years, he's an asshole. They're estranged from each other. He said, he's lived there before. So the detective dug a little deeper and found out that yes, Alan Lee Phillips did live in Colorado. As a matter of fact, he lived just outside Breckenridge and worked in a mine at the time. So they're like, okay. They said Alan Phillips still lived nearby in 2021. He had his own mechanic shop. He was still there, just sitting around.

[B]

Didn't leave.

[A]

Nope. He'd been married three times since then. He has a daughter and two stepsons. And they're like, we gotta know about this guy here. So they look into his criminal history and they found out that he's arrested in 1973 for fucking picking up a hitchhiker and beating her over the head. And then she told on him, which would mean next time you don't leave anybody alive.

[B]

Yeah, don't leave him to talk.

[A]

She went, holy shit. So she tried to find the arrest file. By the way, he had his record expunged somehow in 2002. What somehow? Yeah. Cause it was a 30 year old thing. I don't know what was going on. This would never go away. But he got it wiped in 2003, which is ridiculous. So she tried to find the arrest file, but couldn't find it. No court records of the case. The DA had nothing.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

She's like, fuck. She said, I knew I had to find the case file. So I went over to the archives for the sheriff's office. This is, you know. And she said there was a fire at one point. So a Lot of them had been destroyed. This is not great. She said that she went through hundreds of boxes and filing cabinets and she said, I get down to the last filing cabinet, the last filing cabinet, and even down to the second, to the last drawer, and halfway back I see this tab that says Alan Phillips. So she went through all this. How are you not more surprised at that that that would be in there after all that? You're like, uh huh. Like that's normal. Yeah. What do I have to tell you to get a surprise reaction out of you?

[B]

She got the tab. She's right there.

[A]

She fell from the sky and landed on her forehead. So she said. I was like, this is it. This is our golden egg right here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She reads the first sentence and it said, quote, I saw a woman hitchhiking on the south end of Breckenridge and I stopped and gave her a ride over to Fair Play. And then she reads the whole description and she's like, mother fucker, how could we? This is the guy. She said that Philip said he stopped at an empty cabin, pulled the girl from the Jeep, picked up a rock. We told you about it before.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Wendy Kipple said, when I saw that first sentence, I was like, this is him. This is our guy. There it is, Mo like a motherfucker. So the problem is the young woman who didn't want her identity revealed, she was able to convince him to let her go and then turned him in, obviously. So she also Learned that in 2005, Alan Phillips name came up in connection with a double murder in 2005. Yeah. With a different one. And an anonymous caller had called about this one in 2005.

[B]

How does he get to stay under the rate? Well, because he had it expunged in 2002.

[A]

Yeah. So they didn't look at that. Wow. If they looked him up when people say that, they look up. Does he have any violent history? There's no criminal history. This is not our guy.

[B]

It's not there. Then we don't look.

[A]

And he was like 50. So, like, he's not going to start doing this at 50 now. Yeah. Now he's going to start killing people. So they had checked it out and it went cold at the time. So at this point now they need Alan's DNA because all they have is this genealogy, family lineage, somebody in his family to it. Yeah. So they said we had to get, you know, DNA from him and we needed to steal it from him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's what we needed. So they said they're looking for Anything that he's throwing out garbage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they start, there's a whole team of cops following this guy around, waiting for him to throw something away.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

As we've seen with the Gilgo beach guy. They did that till he threw away a pizza box with a pizza crust in it. They got him on some fucking street pizza man.

[B]

So got him on some fake rays.

[A]

Yeah. Got him on some fucking street Sbarros.

[B]

Some knockoff shit. New York pizza.

[A]

Maybe it was one of the $50 slices or whatever. So they said it was really hard. The sergeant, Wendy Kipple, said he wouldn't throw anything away. He didn't even throw out his garbage.

[B]

What does he do, burn it?

[A]

They said, well, where does he put his garbage? She said, I don't know.

[B]

He just eats everything.

[A]

It's in there. Yeah. He recycles everything. I mean, wrappers, he eats milk cartons. He doesn't give a shit.

[B]

He's got a compactor.

[A]

I have no fucking idea. And she also said this guy was kind of a hermit. He stayed at home. He didn't interact with people too much. They followed him for five weeks without being able to get a piece of garbage.

[B]

Imagine that, Five weeks. You'd get me so fast.

[A]

So fast. Yeah. So you'd get whatever joint I was smoking. You get it right there. Boom.

[B]

I leave something outside all the time.

[A]

Some can or some shit I was drinking out of. So then five weeks into this, he leaves his home and goes to a sonic drive in. Sonic hamburger joint. There we go. So the detective here, Wendy Kipple, said, we're all, like, sitting there watching and watching, and he gets his food, he eats and he leaves. And I'm like, dang it. He didn't throw away his trash.

[B]

He threw away nothing.

[A]

Nothing. He kept it. He kept the bag. So they followed him to a post office. He walked in carrying the Sonic bag. What?

[B]

This guy, he knows that he.

[A]

It's. What?

[B]

Why does he got something to hide? If you're doing that right.

[A]

Keep all of your garbage. Yeah, I would say you got something.

[B]

To hide, you just carry your Sonic trash.

[A]

But on the way out, he's only holding mail.

[B]

Mm. Oh. So he threw it away in the.

[A]

Fucking place inside the post office.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So the second he pulled away.

[B]

Federal property, mind you.

[A]

Yeah. Where it's not like it's. You know, at that point, they can easily get it.

[B]

He essentially. You can't say it's my trash. No, you gave it to the feds.

[A]

You gave it to the feds. The property of the federal government at that point. So the second he pulled away, they dive into this trash can like crazy. Oh, man. Did he leave a tater tot in there?

[B]

I'm starving. Is there a remainder of a chili dog? Anything?

[A]

Oh, man. So the bag gets taken to the lab. They pull DNA from saliva, saliva on a napkin. They get wiped his mouth. And they said they did the test and it was Alan Lee Phillips. Blood on Bobby Joe's glove and Kleenex.

[B]

She punched him.

[A]

She knocked. She fucking.

[B]

She knocked him silly.

[A]

She knocked him silly.

[B]

She used that thing on the outside of her glove and drilled him in the face.

[A]

Cut him open good, too. He had a big gash over his eye. I mean, she jacked him. And they said Bobby Joe was a fighter. And without her being a fighter, we wouldn't have the DNA that we needed to solve this case. Girl, if she didn't hit him. This never gets solved. No way. So February 24, 2021, they go and arrest Alan Lee Phillips, who is mega surprised, can't believe it. He has long. This is not on his radar.

[B]

What are you guys here for?

[A]

Yeah, Wendy Kipple said, I got to put the handcuffs on him. And he was shocked. The look of shock on his face is just priceless. He's just unbelievable. So he's charged with two counts each of first degree homicide, kidnapping and assault. He denies everything, of course. He says a semi retired mechanic living in Dumont in Clear Creek county, he's got three kids from a former marriage. He's been in Colorado, he said never went anywhere. What are you talking about? Yeah, he said, well, your DNA is there.

[B]

Somebody punched you in the face years ago. Do you remember?

[A]

Remember that? The sheriff, what's he got a little scar over your eye, Chief. The sheriff said that although some people don't stay in an area where they commit crimes, he wasn't surprised that it was that Phillips lived close by because he said that he said also Phillips has lived in other areas of Colorado since the murders. So yeah, that's wild. Yeah. His 73 convictions were purged in 2002 and that was that. So this is wild. Bobby Jo's sister Lori said that was a shock the way they were able to get the DNA to find him and catch him. That was amazing.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

You've given up hope that they're ever going to find who did this by far. And Annette's sister said, truthfully, I didn't think it would happen in my lifetime. And Annette's other sister, Cindy, the one who was 11 when she went missing. Said it was just mind blowing, jaw dropping. I didn't know what to think. Dave Montoya, who's the guy who rescued Alan Lee Phillips from the goddamn snow that night, said, if I would have known. What? If I would have known what I know then, what I known, then, I probably would have left him.

[B]

If I'd have known he's a murderer.

[A]

I just. Never mind. That's fucking funny. So he didn't learn until everyone else in 2021 about this. And Montoya said, quote, who. I mean, who has luck like that? I really. You commit two murders, you get stuck up at the top of a pass, trying to flee the scene and everything else, and you get stuck where you're probably gonna die. You ask for mercy and you get it. God gave him the mercy, but he says, you're not gonna get away forever. You got your mercy, but you gotta pay.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

He got to live his whole life, though. Basically, yeah, 20.

[B]

Jeff, too.

[A]

No shit. Yeah, Jeff. A lot of people were like that. Jeff got away with that for a long time before this happened. So.

[B]

J. Bastard. For 30 years, people just walking by him going, that guy's probably a murderer.

[A]

Even though his DNA was cleared and.

[B]

Everything else had nothing to do with it.

[A]

It wasn't clear. His DNA wasn't cleared officially till, you know, way later, till late in the 2000s. So those 20 something years. So 20, 22, he's going to go to trial.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Annette's sisters and brother flew all the way there to be there for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cindy said, the little sister, we wanted to make sure that the family was represented. You know, when the jury looks over, you want to see them. You want them to see the concerned, not the leftovers, but the left behinds. And they said that seeing Allen in court was kind of hard. Cindy said, I was disgusted. You got to live about Alan. You got to live 40 years of your life. You took my sister to see him sit there so emotionless, no emotion whatsoever. Just very stoic. Was very frustrating. Now this looks like, you know, Wendy Kipple said to me, the case is a slam dunk. But to attorneys, they have ways to make it not seem like such a slam dunk. And the defense team said they're going to question the validity of the DNA and other evidence and blame Jeff for murdering his wife, Annanette.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. They're going to go after Jeff even though he's been cleared scientifically. But years before, Wendy said. Wendy Kipple said they pointed the finger at Jeff every step of the way it's so maddening because that's not where the evidence led to. So they got Jeff up there on the stand. Little sister Cindy said they raked him over the coals like he hadn't been through this for the last 40 years. And Jeff said they definitely wanted to put the crimes back on me, the murders back on me. It was quite painful. The defense claimed that Jeff had a motive to kill his wife.

[B]

Really?

[A]

He was angry at her because the day before the murder, you know what she did?

[B]

Jimmy got a promotion.

[A]

No, no. The day before the murder. What did she do there? What did she do? Blew a guy in the front lawn.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She brought home cold pizza.

[B]

That'll do it.

[A]

You bitch. I will kill you in the snow.

[B]

Don't you come home with.

[A]

It's negative 20. If you go from where? Anywhere to anywhere you got cold pizza. It's never going to be hot.

[B]

Cheese is hard by the time you get home.

[A]

Yeah, don't come home. Jeff had told. Jeff had told the investigators about the pizza thing years earlier. So it wasn't even a big deal. And Wendy Kipple said, I kind of found that a little bit ludicrous. I couldn't fathom Jeff killing Bobby Joe over a cold piece of pizza. That's not very hippie. Like, they did question him too, about the defense does about his bizarre behavior, like telling the investigators about a premonition of when and where the body would be found. That was pretty goddamn close.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and they said that this could be seen as pretty damning to some. Right. And Jeff said. And so it was. I just tried to tell the truth and answer the questions. The DNA. They tried to say that the DNA had been tampered with and mishandled throughout the years. Wendy Kipple said there was some contamination. It wasn't known. Oh, I have to be careful and wear gloves so I don't get my DNA on that item. But the bottom line is the blood on the. On the blood that is on Bobby Joe's glove. And tissue was Alan Lee Phillips blood. No amount of other cops touching it could make his blood there.

[B]

Right. Doesn't matter.

[A]

That doesn't.

[B]

I could spit in it. It's still his DNA. It still has DNA, but it still is.

[A]

By the way, on the glove, the DNA match was 1 in 17, quadrillion.

[B]

It's his.

[A]

Which is 2,275,000 times the population of Earth.

[B]

Of Earth. Yeah.

[A]

There's 2 million Earths before the sun will burn out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the Earth Will go dark before enough people are made to make it possible for it to be somebody else. That's what's wild. That's interesting. So they said that the ties on were both women were to this sock. Because DNA conducted testing conducted a month before the trial revealed that Annette's DNA was on the inside and Bobby Joe's DNA was on the outside of this orange sock that was found by Bobby Joe's body.

[B]

So connects everything sock touched her and her.

[A]

Yep. Wow. It did come off of Annette. That's what it was. So they were like, you know, this is crazy. They just thought they were trying to confuse the jury. And they were worried that they'd get one fucking juror that would be confused by shit like this. They deliberate for four hours and 45 minutes. Okay, it's eight charges, two counts each, first degree murder, felony murder, kidnapping, all that shit. He's found guilty.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. He showed no emotion, but he has an adult daughter there who is crying because that's her dad and she didn't know he's a monster.

[B]

Can't believe her dad sucks.

[A]

Yeah. One of the people said his poor daughter cried. I felt bad for the family because what they were going to, what they were going through had to be bad because they probably wanted to believe, you know, that he didn't do it. Sentencing comes around. Defense attorney says he maintains his innocence and maintains that he is the wrong man being sentenced. The judge says, I'm gonna go ahead and take my chances. You saw May 1st? Fuck off. Two life sentences, consecutive. No parole, no parole, no parole. Fucked, fucked and fucked. Take a hike now. They said there's a lot of, you know, is there more victims?

[B]

There's gotta be, right?

[A]

And one of the cops said, short answer, yes, I think that there are several that he could certainly qualify for, but we don't have any evidence to prove it yet. There's several bodies that fit where he is going that they could tie to him, but there's no DNA. So, man, they would say the one guy said this, Charlie McCormick, the PI said, I would say this in 38 years of law enforcement for myself, anybody that can commit a crime like that of killing these two beautiful women, I think could have the tendency to commit other violent acts, for sure. Speaking of committing a violent act, February 27, 2023, four months after he sentenced to two consecutive no life without parole sentences, he is found dead in prison at the Arkansas Valley correctional facility. At 72 years old, he killed himself.

[B]

What a piece of shit.

[A]

Pussy went out like that real Fast, four months. The Dave Montoya, the guy who pulled him out, said everything catches up. But you know, now you can't get away with anything forever.

[B]

No.

[A]

No, you can't. So that is Breckenridge, Colorado.

[B]

What a. What a story.

[A]

What a story. Mark. That's 10 pounds of murder in a two pound bag right there, everybody. Holy shit.

[B]

Learn SOS that'll save your life evidently.

[A]

Holy fuck. Wow. All right, we gotta get through the end real quick. If you like that show. Shut upandgivemerder.com is where to go and get your tickets for live shows. Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids I think is sold out. Finally our holds there a few holds left that we released a little bit in San Diego, little bit in San Diego. Seattle. Those are the ones. Get them right there. Give us five stars on whatever app you're listening to. Helps a lot. Also follow on social media. Smalltown Murder on Instagram at Smalltown Pod on Facebook. Certainly get Patreon. Patreon.com Crime in sports is where you get all of your bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you not only get all the big back catalog of bonus stuff. Over 300 episodes, new ones every other week. We're gonna talk about the Amy Bradley disappearing off the cruise ship and is she alive? Is she this? Is she that. We'll talk all about it. We have theories like everybody else does. We'll talk about that. That is for Patreon. And now of our shows crime and sports, your stupid opinions and small town murder. Both episodes all ad free on Patreon. So grab yourself some patreon. Patreon.com crimeandsports follow us on social media shutupandgivemerder.com drop down menus take you where you want to go. That said, until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye Sam.