The Tinkerbell Witchcraft Delusion - Cherry Log, Georgia

Summary

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Small Town Murder – Episode Summary

Podcast: Small Town Murder

Episode: The Tinkerbell Witchcraft Delusion – Cherry Log, Georgia
Hosts: James Pietragallo, Jimmie Whisman
Date: March 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, James and Jimmie dive into the shocking and tragic murder of nurse practitioner Joanne Teasler in rural Cherry Log, Georgia. Through their signature blend of in-depth research and acerbic, whip-smart comedy, the hosts dissect the bizarre, disturbing life and criminal spiral of William Emmett LaCroix, Jr.—a man whose childhood trauma, delusions, and criminal pathology culminated in a brutal crime that devastated a small mountain community.

The show explores small town quirks, the disturbing psychology of the perpetrator, and the comprehensively tragic elements of the case, all wrapped in the hosts’ comedic banter and gallows humor.

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Main Topics & Discussion Points

1. Cherry Log, Georgia: Setting the Scene

• Location: Tiny, rural mountain town close to the Tennessee border, just outside Ellijay, Georgia (population: 99 for Cherry Log proper).

• Quirky Small-Town Facts:

  • The Pink Pig: Famed barbecue restaurant in town ["Famous for pit cooked barbecue and home style meals." – A, 08:18]
  • The Bigfoot Museum: Local “Expedition Bigfoot” tourist attraction, blending local legend and oddball tourism.
  • Annual Cherry Log Festival: Boasts bands like “Great White Lion Snake” and “Big Mike and the Booty Poppas,” with family-(un)friendly themed valentine cards (“Let me see you naked so I can cop a feelin’!” – 25:00).

• Sociological Snapshot: Median age 65.7, almost entirely white, and described as a sleepy, insular, and somewhat peculiar retirement community with little for young people.

• Crime Rates: Surprisingly, both property and violent crime rates are higher than expected for such a tiny remote area.

2. The Murder Case: Key Figures

William Emmett LaCroix, Jr. (Perpetrator)

• Background:

  • Grew up in a chaotic, abusive, and boundary-less Georgia household (Marietta).
  • Father was abusive, verbally and physically; family rife with “suicidal behavior” and open sexual dysfunction, including allegations of ongoing incest among teenage cousins.
  • “If it weren’t for sex, women would have a bounty on their heads” – A quoting the family’s misogynistic motto [46:14].
  • Childhood sexual abuse at age 8 by his babysitter, a local teen nicknamed “Tinkerbell.”
    • The experience becomes the fixation and alleged cause of his lifelong struggles; he later frames it as a witch’s supernatural “hex.”

• Early Adult Life:

  • Joins Army at 17, seeking escape and structure — fails due to injury and lack of discipline, quickly devolves into substance abuse and desertion.
  • Multiple convictions: burglary, aggravated assault, child molestation (statutory rape of his 13-year-old stepsister while living with his mother and her new husband, Sam Houston—his father’s former police partner).
  • Prison years: Deepens belief in witchcraft, obsesses over childhood trauma, and further isolates himself.

Joanne Lee Teasler (Victim)

• Background:
  • Exceptionally kindhearted, athletic, and academically gifted nurse practitioner.
  • Devoted to rural medicine, serving 3,000 patients in two years in Cherry Log.
  • Remembered for her altruism—worked for the National Health Service Corps and was known for treating patients even if they could not pay.
  • Described by all as “the last person you’d want anything bad to happen to.”
  • Bought a small cabin near the Appalachian Trail, where she lived alone.

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Case Breakdown & Timeline

Troubled Roots and Escalating Criminality

• Family Dysfunction:

  • The LaCroix family sets up a cycle of abuse, neglect, and normalized violence and sexual boundary crossing. William’s experiences with his teenaged babysitter haunt him; he maintains that she molested and “hexed” him, the source of all his misfortunes.

• Criminal Spiral:

  • In his late teens and early 20s, William repeatedly commits home burglaries, sexual assaults, and creates writings outlining violent ambitions ("rob cars and kill people driving so the car can be used for two or three days" – 71:37).
  • Is incarcerated for a decade—emerges even more unstable, with fixations on witchcraft, survivalism, and paranoia.

Cherry Log, October 2001: The Crime

Oct. 5–8, 2001

• William’s mother and stepfather leave town for a weekend, leaving him alone.
• A cluster of local burglaries occurs—mostly guns and medical supplies.
• Nurse Joanne Teasler returns to her mountain cabin after a weekend with her fiancé.

Oct. 8, 2001: Discovery

• Joanne fails to show up for work; co-workers visit her cabin and discover her brutally murdered:
  • She was bound, raped, stabbed, slashed, and post-mortem evidence shows the scene was both violent and ritualistic.
  • Her .32 caliber pistol and Ford Explorer are missing—immediately focusing suspicion on local suspects, especially the recently paroled, registered sex offender just three cabins down the mountain.

The Psychotic "Tinkerbell" Delusion

• William confesses in detail after his arrest, revealing that:

  • He fixed on Joanne as his childhood abuser, despite her being a year younger and a total stranger.
  • He believed she was “Tinkerbell the Witch” and that by reversing the abuse—i.e., binding and raping her—he could lift the curse he perceived she placed on him as a child.
  • “Now it's your turn. Undo it. There. I did that. That means I took that back. So now you have to undo it.” – A, 126:28
  • She desperately pleads, not understanding his demands, before he chokes, stabs, and slashes her to death.

• He steals her car and attempts to flee the country, heading for the Canadian border.

[Important Segment: William’s Confession & Motive | 114:46 – 129:36]

The Arrest and Evidence

Oct. 11, 2001

• William is apprehended at the Canadian border (Minnesota), after executing a suspicious U-turn at the border crossing.
• In Joanne’s stolen SUV, police find:
  • The bloody murder knife
  • The cable ties used to bind her
  • Boots, ammo, survival gear from his planning list
  • Handwritten confession notes addressed to Joanne (“Please, please, please forgive me, Joanne. You were an angel, and I killed you…” – 111:09)
  • A second note intended to be left in the abandoned car, asking the finder to call police and report the vehicle stolen.

[Major Evidence & Arrest Recap | 110:08 – 112:42]

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Legal Proceedings & Notable Insights

Federal Carjacking Charge & Death Penalty

• The government indicts under the federal carjacking statute, arguing the murder enabled the theft of Joanne’s vehicle and subsequent interstate transport—making it a capital (death penalty) case.

• The defense attempts to argue that this was a crime of opportunity during a burglary rather than an intentional carjacking/murder, but the jury, moved by the senseless brutality and victim impact statements, returns a death sentence.

  “They found that all of the eligibility factors and all of the statutory and non-statutory aggravating factors exist… The non-statutory aggravating factors were that LaCroix would be a future danger… that he caused injury, harm, and loss to the victim’s family.” – A, 167:49

Mitigation Attempts

• The defense leans heavily on William’s background—childhood sexual abuse, dysfunctional family—and introduces expert testimony on the long-term psychological effects of such trauma in men.

• However, psychological evaluations consistently find him competent and unable to claim legal insanity under Georgia (or federal) law.

  “To be found like insane in Georgia is impossible… They’ve taken crazy and put it in a lane that fucking narrow.” – A, 183:58

• Notably, his own brother Chad becomes a decorated Georgia State Trooper but is later killed in the line of duty, adding another layer of family tragedy.

[Courtroom Strategies, Mitigation, and Post-Conviction – 142:44 – 164:00]

Appeals and Execution

• Multiple appeals are denied, including challenges to federal execution protocols and the constitutionality of the drugs used.

• Despite the murderer's family’s pleas for mercy (having now lost both sons), execution proceeds.

  “Today justice was finally served. William LaCroix died a peaceful death in stark contrast to the horror he imposed on my daughter Joanne.” – Joanne’s father, 182:57

[Execution, Family Impact, and Aftermath | 176:54 – 182:57]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “If it weren’t for sex, women would have a bounty on their heads.” (A, 46:14) — The LaCroix family’s appalling motto.
• “He became convinced that Tinkerbell was a witch who put a hex on him.” (A, 41:41)
• “He said, you know, you fucking asshole. Can I buy a vowel?” (A, 126:44) — Reenacting Joanne’s complete confusion during the attack.
• “She was the last person you’d want anything bad to happen to. Just endless kindness.” (A, ~90:18)
• “He wrote, ‘Rape, rob, and pillage’ on his plan. That’s his game plan.” (A, 71:57)
• “He settled for Pizza Hut, which is miserable. That's a miserable ass meal.” (A, 179:19) — On his denied request for KFC as a last meal.
• “Such a weird wild stance to take these days – Don't rape and kill just because the world was hard to you.” (B, 153:59)
• “We cannot tell you how much we appreciate all that you do for us…” (A, 193:34) — Heartfelt show closing appreciating the audience.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|----------------------| | Cherry Log Setting, Small Town Reviews | 05:15 – 15:44 | | LaCroix’s Family Dysfunction & Upbringing | 34:15 – 47:07 | | The “Tinkerbell” Abuse & Witchcraft Delusion | 35:17 – 42:03 | | Criminal History, Home Life, Prior Convictions| 51:04 – 80:14 | | Joanne Teasler’s Background | 86:39 – 98:22 | | Discovery of the Murder | 101:03 – 103:46 | | Investigation, Evidence, and Arrest | 104:16 – 113:02 | | LaCroix’s Confession & Delusions | 114:01 – 129:36 | | Legal Proceedings, Federal Carjacking | 129:54 – 133:09 | | Defense Mitigation, Mental Health | 143:24 – 147:59 | | Closing Arguments & Sentencing | 163:50 – 168:14 | | Execution and Aftermath | 177:39 – 182:57 |

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Memorable/Tragic/Comedic Moments

• Absurd Bands at the Cherry Log Festival:
  Valentine cards with filthy 80s hair metal puns (25:00).

• Hosts’ Running Theme:
  Bemoaning the number of crime plans, lists, and confessions literally written down and left lying around. (“Stop writing shit down, everybody, just stop it!” – A, 71:39)

• Hosts’ Reaction to Crime:
  “He believes the only way to lift the curse is to re-enact his abuse on an innocent stranger who just happens to be the first person he fixates on. It’s like horrific butterfly effect.” (Paraphrased throughout, exemplified 118:35 – 119:11)

• Comment on Georgia Insanity Law: “To be found like insane in Georgia is impossible... They’ve taken crazy and put it in a lane that fucking narrow.” (A, 183:58)

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Thematic & Emotional Notes

• Themes of Cycles:
  Abuse, trauma, and family dysfunction fueling further tragedy, contrasting with Joanne’s life of empathy and service.

• Host Tone:
  Irreverent, darkly comic, and frequently exasperated by the parade of poor decisions, systemic failures, and the sheer senselessness of the crime.

• Closing Reminder:
  The sheer randomness and misfortune that can befall genuinely good people—even in sleepy, bucolic communities.

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Conclusion

The Tinkerbell Witchcraft Delusion episode is a blend of true-crime horror, psychological exploration, and small-town funhouse mirror—at turns deeply sad, infuriating, and occasionally pierced by the hosts’ biting comedic relief. It stands out as a cautionary tale about cycles of trauma, the inadequacies of the criminal justice system, and the unfathomable vulnerability of kindness in an indifferent universe.

Final Verdict: If nothing else, remember: Don’t write your crimes down, don’t let anyone named Tinkerbell babysit, and don’t trust anyone in a small town who believes in witchcraft hexes for literal decades.

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For more details, visit the Small Town Murder website or check out their Patreon for bonus content.

Transcript

[A]

For everyone who solves crime from their couch, knows more about forensics than their own job, and has trust issues with small town sheriffs. Amazon Music's millions of podcast episodes are calling. Just download the Amazon music app and start listening to your favorite true crime podcasts ad free included with prime. Small Town Murder is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, but potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. This week in Cherry Log, Georgia, when a local nurse who tends to the population on a rural mountain is found brutally killed in her small cabin. Detectives look far and wide for suspects, but a real life monster was closer than anyone could have thought. Welcome to small Small Town Murder. Hello everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petregallo. I'm here with my co host, Jimmy.

[B]

I'm Jimmy Whisman.

[A]

Thank you folks so much for joining us again. Today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder, we have a wild episode. As usual, it's kind of one of these last express. We had a real kind of insanity case. So I'm kind of exploring more insanity things here this week and that's what we're expanding on and we're gonna do a little bit here. But before we get to that, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. what you get there is your tickets to live shows. Yes, definitely. Now, the next Small Town Murder Murder show with tickets available is May 2nd in Denver. You can also. No, that's gonna be passed too. Yeah, Denver. Get your tickets for Denver May 2. May 30 in Royal Oak, Michigan. September 18 in Milwaukee, September 19 in Minneapolis. And then there's more shows after that. So get in there and get those tickets. Shut up and give me murder dot com. Listen to our other two shows. You got crime and sports. But you don't have to like sports, we promise. And your stupid opinions, which we all love. Reading other people's reviews for some reason. And now what makes that better? Two idiots making fun of those people. That's what makes it better. I'm telling you right now. Check that out. Do all that and get yourself Patreon.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Do yourself a favor. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of the bonus episodes. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're gonna get everything. We put out everything. Everything. That includes hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard. Immediately upon subscription, new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. And you get it all this week, what you're gonna get for crime and sports, we're gonna talk about a guy named Patrick Bogier, I believe is how you pronounce it. He's a boxer, also a biker, and also on some murder problems as well. So we'll talk about him. And then for small town murder, we are gonna talk about this emerging phenomenon of Alpine divorces is what they're calling it, where you just take somebody that you're in a committed relationship with and you just take them somewhere and you go, hey, look at that. And then they turn around and you disappear and you're gone. And that's the relationship. Yeah. Not even I didn't come home that night. Just in the woods or whatever. So we'll talk all about that and more. And in addition to that, you get everything. We put out all three shows all ad free with your Patreon, as well as you get a shout out at the end of the regular show too. You can't beat it. I'll tell you what. Right there, patreon.com crime in sports. Disclaimer time. Oh, yeah, it's a comedy show we're doing here, everybody. That's right. We are comedians. People are definitely gonna die. We're definitely gonna make jokes. And you go, oh, that sounds weird. Well, it is a little bit weird unless you do it correctly. That's the thing here. And I think we have the formula down here. So the way we do it is we never make fun of the victims.

[B]

No.

[A]

Or the victims families.

[B]

Why is that, James?

[A]

Because we're assholes.

[B]

But.

[A]

But we're not scumbags.

[B]

See how that works?

[A]

It's very easy to do when you do that. There's plenty of other stuff to make fun of. We make fun of small towns because we're all from somewhere that deserves to be made fun of. Who cares? We make fun of maybe a bumbling police force that lets somebody go kill three more people. And of course we make fun of murderers because fuck them. That's why. That's what we've decided. Because why not? We have no other recourse as comedians with murderers can't go heckle them in their jail cells. So we do it here. So if that sounds good to you, you're gonna hear a wild, wild story. You're gonna have a good Time. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, I don't know, maybe give it a shot. Either way, no complaining later. What do you say? No. There you go. So that said, I think it's time, everybody. What do you say? Let's all sit back here. There we go. Deep breaths, Clear the lungs. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout shut up and give Mae Martyr murder. Let's do this, everybody.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Let's go on a trip, shall we? We are doing it. We're going to Georgia this week. Yeah, barely. Georgia. Almost. Tennessee, Far Northern Georgia. Cherry Log, Georgia. Now, people know this, mainly this area as Elijah E. L L I J A Y L E L L I J A Y. I don't think I said that wrong, but, yeah, Ellijay is kind of the bigger town. When I say bigger, we're talking. It's relative. It's not that. And there's Blue Ridge also in this area. This is a. In the mountains near the border. Very rural, very mountain, Very kind of out there on its own type of deal here. This is in. It's about an hour and 25 minutes to Atlanta, so you can still get to Atlanta pretty quick. About an hour and a half to Chattanooga, the other direction up in Tennessee. And five hours and 20 minutes to our last Georgia episode. That was Riceboro, Georgia, episode 639. My imaginary murder Friend. Okay, Person just made up a person. Oh, yeah, this super murdery guy just keeps showing up. This is in Gilmer county, which I've never even heard of before even doing this show. We've never heard of that. There's 31,000 people in the entire county.

[B]

That's several towns.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's a whole county. It's a big chunk of northern Georgia. Area code 706. I guess cherry Log is an English translation of what the former Cherokee village was called that was on the site before. You know, before the Trail of Tears and all that stuff here. The town's name is believed to be derived from the cherry trees that were once everywhere in the area. And apparently they would float the logs down the nearby river and it became Cherry Log. That's what they think. One legend states that the town got its name from Native Americans who used a cherry log as a bridge to cross the river in this area. So they called it Cherry Log. We're not. Who knows? We're not sure here. It was one of several original Cherokee settlements in the vicinity of Ellijay in this area here, including one called Turniptown Turniptown Gross. The old. Did you just fall off the turnip truck? Yes, from turnip town. I fell off the truck which is now called white path. They changed it because they're like, no one's coming to turnip town, right?

[B]

No, no one even shit about turnips.

[A]

No one wants to eat a fucking turnip. They definitely don't wan live in one. We were in a restaurant in North Carolina one time and Jimmy got a meal and it looked like there was like roasted potatoes next to it. And he took a bite and he was like, oh, what is that? It was turnips. That's a terrible potato because it was definitely. It came from the ground. It's a root vegetable, but not the one you're looking for. So in 1950, Claude Underwood built a country store, a grist mill and a grist mill. And that became kind of the central gathering spot for this town here. Then by 67 another family acquired it and converted it into a restaurant which still stands today.

[B]

Really?

[A]

The pink pig restaurant. Famous for pit cooked barbecue and home style meals.

[B]

Apart from the blue pigs, obviously.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Don't want to confuse the pigs.

[A]

Don't want to do that. Yeah, they'll get all sorts of confusion.

[B]

Is there a different colored pig?

[A]

Yes, I have. I've seen black and white pigs. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. There's different pig. Yeah, but you.

[B]

But that's the only ones, right?

[A]

Yeah. Well, I don't know what. Cause there's different like breeds of pig. Like there's like the pink, the porky, the porky with the fucking curly tail and all that. Then there's hogs that have more. I don't know. What's the difference between a hog and a pig?

[B]

Isn't that the male?

[A]

Maybe, I'm not sure. Isn't that a sow that's a female? I don't know. Is a male pig a male pig and a sow is a female? I'm not sure.

[B]

I think that's it. I think that's true. I think there's a hog and a sow maybe.

[A]

Well, there you go. I don't know the difference between pigs that much, except for if they have a dick or not. So other than that I'm pretty lost.

[B]

And a married one. Hey.

[A]

Okay. So. Jesus. Through the heart of Jerrylog runs Cherry log street, which has all of their commerce, which consists of a post office, a Baptist church, a Christian church, and the pink pig restaurant. That's downtown. That's what you got. You can mail something, eat and pray. And that's the fuck it.

[B]

Eat, pray, love.

[A]

Well, eat, pray and have some more pig and eat, pray. Male is what they have here. So reviews of this town now there's no reviews for this town. They're for Elogy, which is. Or Ella Jay, which is kind of the same thing. By the way. Ellijay bills itself as the apple capital of Georgia. Oh, yeah. I guess no more cherry trees. Yeah.

[B]

I didn't know that apples were there.

[A]

I didn't either. I know they're in because they usually grow in more cold peaches. Yeah, they grow cold. Like there's New York is the capital, the capital of apples that in Washington. So five stars here. I love the mountains. I also love the small little shops around the square in Elijay. Not to mention most people are nice. I, however, feel the population getting bigger and minimum wage could go up.

[B]

They can feel it.

[A]

Yeah. Do they want minimum wage to go up or they like. If more people come, minimum wage will go up and then we're all screwed. I don't know what they're trying to say here.

[B]

I think there's. I don't know. Whatever the news told them is that's how they feel.

[A]

I'm not sure how they're expressing it here. Yeah. Three stars. My experience in Ellijay has been pretty good. I like the outdoorsy, less populated environment. I would like to see more activities for young adults. Better places to hang out other than the bar or in downtown where it can be too expensive. You know, downtown Ellaj is practically Manhattan. It's practically midtown Manhattan down there.

[B]

When you get there. $30 Cosmos down there in downtown Ellijay.

[A]

You know that. You know it. You know the bars with the long lines and the velvet ropes and, you know, movie stars blowing right past you going. And it's really annoying. It has to get annoying, get irritating after a while. Some more attractions that would attract the younger population and it wouldn't be a small town if it had that stuff. You don't want that you'd be in the suburbs. Three stars so far. It's just a B rated place. Okay, I guess that's three stars. There's nothing special about living here so far. It's halfway decent. But there's a lot of. And they put this in quotes, by the way. A lot of heels to deal with, like bad guy wrestlers.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. They come in and they're a lot of those. They cut promos on the town. You know what I mean? Is it new ones or old Ones, it's not sure. Just heels. A lot of heels to deal with in this town. Three stars. Here we go. Pretty nice little town. But you would think that the officials would figure out something to do about the traffic cluster at the stop sign near Hardee's.

[B]

The stop sign?

[A]

The stop sign near the Hardee's. You know the one. If you're trying to get to the four lane, it's almost impossible.

[B]

The four lane, Is that what they call it?

[A]

The four lane? I don't know if that's whatever lane that is.

[B]

Is that two lanes each direction or is it four lanes each direction?

[A]

I think. Is it one in a turn? Is it one lane each direction and one turning lane in each direction? Ah, the four lane. Four lane. And finally three star. Actually one more after this. Three stars. It is a very pretty little mountain town. And I lived here my whole life. There's a mix of open minded people and bigots. So you have to find the right people, which probably isn't hard to do.

[B]

There's a mix of nice people, bigots

[A]

and people shouting the N word at me even though I'm Norwegian. Somebody saying so it's weird. Okay. And then finally, two stars. This town has to be the dirty place in North America. Not the dirtiest. The dirty place.

[B]

The dirty place.

[A]

Right in your dirty place. Is that where they touched you in your dirty place? This is great. Litter everywhere, dogs crapping on lawns with no cleanup. No cleanup. All the foul mouthed Floridiots that flocks here like buzzards on a carcass. By the way, foul is spelled foal like a horse.

[B]

F A O F O a L,

[A]

F O a L. Foal. A foal mouthed Floridian. All the foal mouthed Floridians that have flocked here as buzzards on a carket. Floridian.

[B]

Why does every state that borders another one, they have this like superiority complex that they have with them.

[A]

The only difference is with Florida, they're all right. All this. They're all correct. That's the only difference. That place is fucking hell on earth. Okay? The upper class here that will call the authorities, if you have a car with the hood raised sitting in your vehicle, you aren't a quote good person in their opinion. I definitely would not recommend this place to anyone.

[B]

Car broke down. So everybody looks down on you.

[A]

Everybody looks down. People in this town now in kind of this town, Cherry Log proper, The population is 99 and they keep it at that. If you have a baby, they kill an Old person. That's the way it works.

[B]

700.

[A]

You're done. Yeah, the whole area, kind of The Ellijay, Blue Ridge. That zip code has 870 people in it. So.

[B]

Good Lord.

[A]

Three towns worth is 870.

[B]

And they want more nightlife? They want nightlife.

[A]

Where would it be? Up in the holler. Like they're in the mountains. It's the middle of nowhere. Women in this town, 48.8%. Men, 51.2%. Which. That's out of whack from the averages, but normal if you have such a small population. Median age here is wild for this whole area, 65.7. It says there are zero people that are zero to 24 years of age here. Zero percent.

[B]

This is a retirement community, I suppose.

[A]

I don't know. Yeah, you just stay here till you die, I guess. I assume there's not a lot going on. So if you're young, you probably leave to go to college or for job opportunities or things like that.

[B]

Well, there's zero people. If there was an industry for them, it would die tomorrow.

[A]

It would be hard. No shit. It would be over. 65.4% married, which is well above the national average. 0.0 people. Percent of the people have children and are single. So no single parents here at all.

[B]

Zero.

[A]

Race and cherry log are in the zip code here. 100% white. So I don't know who they're bigoted toward because there's nobody else to. Who are they yelling towards in that group? Nobody. There's not even anybody there to be bigoted toward. You should really calm that down a few notches. Right? Fascinating religion. You would expect it to be very high here. 50% is the average. 45.2% here. So actually lower than the average. And the highest is Baptist, of course, as we know, Baptists are the Catholics of the south, meaning they're everywhere. It's 19.7% Baptist and then a few other mixes. 13% other faith, other Christian. Not sure what that is, but other. 0.0% Jewish unemployment here is low, actually. So the 99 people have figured out a way to make a living.

[B]

They keep everybody employed.

[A]

And the median household income here is not bad. Median household income is 64,830, which is only like five grand less than the national average.

[B]

That's marvelous.

[A]

Problem is, the home cost is also very high.

[B]

Really?

[A]

All these homes have land attached to them.

[B]

Okay, that does.

[A]

This seems like a place that people discovered and moved here and drove the real estate on. There's A bunch of these, like cabins that are made fancy that, you know, weren't fancy at one point and were probably 20 grand and are now expensive.

[B]

So they're 50 acres.

[A]

Yeah, media, some of them. Median home cost here, $422,800, which is well above the national average. And if we've convinced you, God damn it, this is the only place for you. Cherry Log, Georgia. We have for you the Cherry Log Georgia real estate report. All right. Your average two bedroom rental here. And I'm not sure where you're gonna find a two bedroom rental in the. In a mountain town with a bunch of cabins, really. But it's $810 is what it says. Here's. Yeah, very low. Here's a house in Cherry Log. It looks like a little raised ranch. It's nice. Three bedroom, two bath, 1230 square feet. The behind it is like a big hill raising with woods behind it. You can see like the hill behind it. Built in 1963, it's on 2.86 acres. Inside it's okay. Could use a little help if you're real concerned about wanting to be HGTV, you know, ready or whatever. But otherwise it's fine. 279,000 bucks for that.

[B]

On almost three acres. That's not bad.

[A]

Yeah, almost three acres. But the house isn't huge. But it's a nice house. Decent size. The next one, three bedroom, two bath, 1434 square foot cabin. It's a log cabin. The logs are, you know, where they're like this, logs and everything. Everything, man. It's a log cabin. It's got a nice porch, outside, inside's done real nice. It was built in 1994. It's on a 0.93-acre lot.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Shouldn't be that expensive, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

$549,900, I guess because it's new. I don't know. It's built in 94. I bet in 94 it sold for 10 grand or something, you know what I mean? It's in the middle of nowhere. 500. That's with a $49,000 price cut. It was 600 grand.

[B]

Holy shit.

[A]

And then finally this weird ass house. Four bedroom, four bath, tea bowl for each and every B hole. 6,047 square feet. Enormous. It's like three stories. It's got like stone work on a big rounded rotunda. It's got like two big outdoor decks that are two tiers and it's really nice. Built in 2004 on 7.11 acres. So it's big. It's like a kind of. It's in the mountains. You can see, like there's a hill down in front of you and up behind you. $1,249,000. Wow.

[B]

I mean, it's. It's a big house, but Jesus Christ. That impressive, right?

[A]

Not for where it is. It's a million. If you want to live in the mountains, I guess it's great.

[B]

Those three L's one for real estate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not hitting any of them.

[A]

Not really. Well, I guess this. Maybe it is. I guess this is a popular place. I don't know if this is a popular place for, like, people from Atlanta to go for weekends. Like, you know, Vermont is to the northeast or something.

[B]

How close to Atlanta is it?

[A]

An hour 25. I mean, that's not close enough. You could commute if you really wanted to. Yeah. I mean, yeah, maybe a weekend place like something like that. Like the Hamptons or something. I don't know how this is, but either way, things to do here. Let's find out. In 2007 or 16, the Expedition Bigfoot opened, which is the Sasquatch Museum in Cherry Log. Oh, yeah. They said you're probably seeing the billboards before you even enter the state of Georgia. This museum will make you a Sasquatch believer. I'll take that challenge, sir. Sounds good. Shit.

[B]

What the fuck things do you have there?

[A]

What do you have there? Do you have one. Did you kill and stuff?

[B]

One hair and a DNA test proving it.

[A]

Something. And it's. This is nothing we've encountered on this earth before. Great for a rainy day and a must see, right? In Cherry Log. They said they're more than a museum. They found it important to add this. This is interesting here for some reason on the Bigfoot website, there's like proverbs about Bigfoot that they're like attributing to Bigfoot. This is Proverbs 25. 2.

[B]

What?

[A]

It's the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter. So they're saying God's hiding Bigfoot from us, and it's our job to find him. That's exactly what he.

[B]

That's what they're saying, the glory of kings. James, if you're a king, you will find him.

[A]

The glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to stretch out a matter. Which is fine, but. Fine proverb. But in Bigfoot context, it becomes silly. Wow. Okay.

[B]

I think he means kindness. You know what I mean? I don't think it's a literal translation to fucking Sasquatch.

[A]

Find Sasquatch. It says we're more than a museum. We're also a research and reporting center. So you can make all of your reports of your sightings to these people here.

[B]

This is a tax write off for somebody.

[A]

Somebody it is. I would think so, yeah. Expedition, Bigfoot, Blue Ridgemail. That's how you get to them. And then there's also the Cherry Log Festival which says that you get a fried chicken lunch with all the trimmings. Gotta have them.

[B]

What are the trimmings of a fried chicken lunch?

[A]

Well, it just says including locally famous biscuits. That's it. Biscuits.

[B]

A biscuit. A biscuit.

[A]

Chicken and a biscuit. A biscuit. A basket. I don't know. Mac and cheese maybe.

[B]

I'm not sure that's a good trimming.

[A]

Yeah, I'll take that arts and crafts home. Canned jellies and jams. I don't want your home jelly at all. Not unless I know you well. Home baked pies, Cakes and sweet treats Fried pies and entertainment. Now the musical acts, they have Tear Blue, Got Me, Parts and Labor, which I like a lot. That's five guys from a mechanic's shop that were like, you know what? We could start a band. We'll rehearse after we close the big bay doors every night. We'll just do it right here.

[B]

That is a pretty solid name for a band. It's not bad. It's very funny.

[A]

Like a blue collar band. Parts and labor. It's good. Stacy Adams with two eyes. Can't have it with one eye. Confuse her with the other. Stacy Adams, I'm sure.

[B]

Of course, there's a guy that makes men's clothes named Stacey Adams.

[A]

Well, maybe this is a relation. We don't know the Macon sound. I bet they're from Macon.

[B]

I bet they're from Macon, Georgia.

[A]

Just off camera and they're making sounds. James, they're making sounds. Big Mike and the Booty Papas. P A P A S. This sounds like a very family friendly act there. Also, they keep talking on the site how this is just for families and kids and bring your kids and see Big Mike and the Booty Poppas. Reese Soul. R E E S. Reese Soul, like Reed Drummond is gonna lay it all out for you. And then my favorite band of all time, Great White Lion Snake. You know what they do? 80s air metal that's a combination of Great White White Lion, White Snake. Mix other ones in there. It's hilarious. And there was a Valentine's gig. And they have valentines that you could buy of them. And it has pictures of the band guys on it and different phrases. Here's one to my valentine. Roses are red. And just like Stan Halen. When I get a hold of you later. It's not only his guitar solos. That will be Whalen.

[B]

Stan Halen.

[A]

Stan Halen. I don't know why Stan Halen.

[B]

Maybe Van Halen is trademarked.

[A]

No, no, this guy is Stan Halen. They all have names. The guy on that picture, Stan Halen. They all have names like that. And it. I can't wait to play you like a fretboard. Yeah, it gets.

[B]

Finger me.

[A]

What? Oh, it gets. Wait til you see some of this shit. Here is one. Roses are red. I want to be Izzy. Cause he's the drummer. Izzy from Guns N Roses. You can be the drum so I can pound you later when we get busy

[B]

getting really good.

[A]

Then it says, rock my world.

[B]

Real family friendly.

[A]

Next up is a picture of the bass player, Ricky Sixx. Roses are red. And here is Ricky Sixx. Please do the right thing and send me those dirty pics. And then it says, I'll let my fingers do the talking underneath.

[B]

Holy. He's asking for nudes.

[A]

And then last one. Lainey Steele is the singer. Roses are red. I love Lainey Steele. Let me see you naked so I can cop a feeling. And then it says. I don't just sing with my mouth. This is filthy. Filthier than the Big Booty Papas, I would say.

[B]

This is like prison love notes. These are incredible.

[A]

This is crazy shit. Crime rate in this town, besides those cards. Property crime slightly high. I don't know how. You're in the middle of nowhere. There's 99 people. How the hell are you? This is crazy. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime, also a little bit high.

[B]

Really?

[A]

What's going on up here, people? What's happening? You would think there'd be zero crime. Mind your.

[B]

I got a lot of questions.

[A]

Stay in your cabin and leave everybody alone. What are you doing? That said, let's talk about some murder here, okay? Wow, this is an odd one. And like I said before, we did the Express last week in Gadsden, Alabama, and that had a guy in it who had like a 64 IQ and was super nuts on top of that. And very dumb and very violent.

[B]

It's almost like being dumb makes you real frustrated and to the point of violence.

[A]

Yeah, well, if you look at. And there's studies they've done over time. If you go into a prison and conduct intelligence tests, it's not going to have the same, you're not going to come out with the same scores. If you went to a nice university and did a bunch of intelligence tests, it's way different. So yeah, people, it's just that's the way it tends to work out. If you're a little dumber, you tend to be more likely to have criminal action. Yeah.

[B]

It's almost like having things can't figure it out like nutrition makes your brain develop properly.

[A]

You know, things like that. Not getting your skull cracked around with your kid too by your drunk father. Yeah. Hey everybody. Just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you how to get a better habit with fume. Try f u m dot com. That's what the website is there. Fume is a flavored air device designed to help people quit vaping and smoking by breaking the hand to mouth pattern. And it's so good for that. I telling you right now, we both have these fumes and they're awesome. It's simple, natural and honestly, it's kind of a genius little thing. No nicotine, no batteries, no vapor. Just a weighted, twisty, fidget friendly tool that gives your hands something better to reach for when cravings show up. Cravings are not just about nicotine. They're about the habit. That hand to mouth motion, the oral fixation, the momentary pause. And when that loop is broken, the cravings spike Fume. What they do here replaces your habit with a flavored air fidget device that gives your hands and mouth something to do distracting cravings. Without nicotine vapor or batteries, don't just try to quit. Upgrade the habit loop. Reach for fume instead. It's just air. It's just there. You can sit and you can just draw on it and just it's air, it's flavored, it tastes great. So you get that motion but there's nothing bad going in you and it feels really good in your hand. It's a good weight. Really feels good to mess around with. And it does just want to, you want to play with it in your hand for a while and then when you get these little cravings you can just there you go a little bit and it's use this thing and just taste some flavored air. There's no, you know, vapor or any of that garbage, none of that stuff. It's really great and it feels on day one. It really, really can help you with the process of quitting and doing that. They have tons of flavors. They have crisp mint, which is the strongest flavor. Best for heavy users. Raspberry, which is tangy on the sweeter end. Peach is my favorite. That's the best. And when you grab a journey pack, you'll also get a free gift just for using our code Smalltown murder. Fume has already helped over 700,000 people take steps toward better habits. And now it's your turn. Try our code. Use our code small town Murder to get a free gift with your journey pack head to try fume.com, that's T R-Y-F-U-M.com and use the code Small town Murder to claim your free gift today. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to learn much better with Rosetta Stone. You find them [e-mail] SmallTownMurder and it's spring. It's the perfect time to start doing this. There's just something about it. It feels like a reset. You know, the sun is out there longer. You got more energy. Everything's happening. And learning a new language is the perfect way to channel that momentum into a skill that can open up the world for you. It is very cool. I have to do this. I haven't done this yet, but I have it. I have it and they gave it to me, and I am definitely gonna do it. I have to do it for, I know, like, Italian, like, from my grandmother from, like a village in the 1930s in Abruzzi. That's not. That's not gonna help me, like, go to Italy. You know what I mean? So I gotta do that. I'm gonna learn some like that I can use. It's good, too. With this, they help you with everything. Accents, they help you with, you know, kind of local terminology. It's amazing the way they do this. And I really, really gotta get into it and do it. I know so many people who have done it, and it's just great. And it's the best way to learn with this. And they even, they have this thing called true accent, which is really cool. That way you don't, you know, you don't sound like you came from another planet. It's awesome. And with over 30 years of experience, millions of users, and 25 languages to choose from, including Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and more, Rosetta Stone is the go to tool for real language growth. Learn faster, retain longer with Rosetta Stone. It immerses you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence. No English translations so you truly learn to speak, listen and think in your chosen language. They have an intuitive learning process that starts with words, builds to phrases and progresses to full sentences. It's designed for long term retention. So you learn what you learn is actually going to really stick with you. And the truaccent gives real time feedback on pronunciation. So it's like having a personal coach. It's amazing. This is so cool. This actually tells you whether you're doing it right. It's amazing. And you can access lessons from your desktop or mobile app whether you have five minutes or an hour. Are you ready to start learning a new language this spring? Visit rosettastone.com Smalltown Murder today to explore Rosetta Stone and choose the language that's right for you. Go to rosettastone.com smalltownmurder now and begin your language learning journey. And the episode we're gonna do for Express this week too, coming up is also kind of a mental trying to an insanity claim defense. So we're kind of exploring that episode, this episode and the next episode, kind of different ways that insanity can come about. You know what I mean? You'll see what I mean on the Express when it comes up after this. But this guy is another case. There was a guy with 64 IQ and everything that could possibly go against him in life going against him last week. And then we have this guy, William Emmett LaCroix Jr. L E C R O Y Lacroix. Oh, yeah, like that. Lec Roy. Yeah, yeah. He's born April 12, 1970. He's born in Marietta, Georgia, in Cobb county there, which is a big suburb kind of northwest of Atlanta. His parents are William Emmett LaCroix Sr. Obviously, and Donna Houston is his mother. He's got a brother that's gonna come up several times and especially gonna play a large part in things later on, a brother named Chadwick Thomas Lacroix. He's born in 72, so he's the younger brother. He goes by Chad. And he will have a remarkably different path than William, an absolutely remarkably different path. Now it's interesting here. The parents had a terrible marriage, not a good marriage. And we'll find out some of the details of it. His father was widely reported very verbally abusive, but it's kind of more than that toward his mother, Donna. His mother, Donna is described as a loving, gentle, timid woman. Yeah, you know that one. You know that woman. She's timid because her husband is abusive and.

[B]

Yeah. And she takes it because she thinks she deserves that or she can't find

[A]

better or her dad was abusive and this is what she's looking for. And that's kind of how it goes. Yeah, that's how shit rolls downhill like that. You know, you, Whatever you. Unless you've had some help or thought about it very thoroughly.

[B]

Yeah, the poverty cycle, very well documented. This shit does not go away.

[A]

Abuse cycle also, someone has to go, I'm not doing that. And not do it before it breaks. Now, when William is age 8, let's introduce Tinkerbell. Oh, yeah, Tinkerbell's gonna end up in the Pan's gal. Well, we'll see here. He had a childhood babysitter named Tinkerbell. That wasn't a real name. That's what everyone called her, Tinkerbell. Okay, yeah. Now Chad and William, now this is when he's 8. So Chad is, you know, William's 8, Chad's got to be 6. So they apparently played what was known as, quote, the kissing game with her.

[B]

How old is Tinkerbell?

[A]

Teens, late teens. She's not 12. She's like, you know, 16, 14. 16, 16, something like that. Way too old to be kissing 6 year olds and 8 year olds.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Yeah. That is molestation at that point. They would run up to her, kiss her, and then run away. That was their little game. And she encouraged this.

[B]

Apparently.

[A]

This wasn't like, oh, what do you kids do when you gotta stop doing that? She was like, oh, that's cute.

[B]

On her lips or on the cheek?

[A]

No, no, on the lips. Real kisses. Actual kisses. Things that 8 and 6 year olds shouldn't be doing, that no one should be doing to them, I should say, would be a better way to put that.

[B]

There is a thing that adults think that's cute when it's a girl kissing little boys.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But this, from what I understand, this was not like a cute, like kid. Like, it wasn't like that. Like, this was like prolonged kiss. Kissing. Yeah, this was. Had a sexual nature to it, a sexual connotation to it, which is strange. And then it gets worse from there. Progressively worse. One night, Tinkerbell came into young William's bedroom and told him that he, quote, needed to know how to do it right, meaning kissing. Because they've been kissing. But an eight year old, tired of these bad kisses, terrible kissers, these eight year olds, they're notorious for it. And she began kissing him long and serious and then undressing him and then performing oral sex on him.

[B]

Mouthed it. God damn it.

[A]

An eight year old. Yeah. So this is absolutely beyond the pale of. That's crazy. We've talked about and it's a, you know, it's a. Whatever we've talked about, if you know some 23 year old teacher who's a woman is fucking some 16 year old boy. Absolutely not. Right. And if it was my kid, I'd want her fired and all that, you know, whatever. Put in jail and all that kind of thing. But at the same time, if I was 16, I would have thought it was the greatest thing in the world. And people can argue whatever they want. That's the fact of the matter. Most 16 year old boys would be thrilled with that and never be. It wouldn't affect them mentally. They'd be fine.

[B]

It's not gonna.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not gonna ruin them.

[A]

They shouldn't do it.

[B]

It's still awful.

[A]

Like I said, if it was my kid. On your head on a pike. But if it was me when I was 16, I would have been like, no, no, leave her alone. This is great.

[B]

Be nice to her.

[A]

Yeah. Whereas eight absolute. There is no. They don't have anything sexual yet. They're not. You're destroying this child at that point by doing that.

[B]

Well, there are, there are fucking his whole. Yeah.

[A]

You know, there are children like that

[B]

that can, that can actually get an erection and, and can.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Do the deed and like, I don't know if they. I don't know if they can do the deed, but they can certainly lob it in there. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. I don't think there's going to be a finale.

[B]

I don't think there's going to be a celebration.

[A]

Yeah, your dick gets hard when you're little. That's. I remember it. Yeah. You rub up on something a little bit, you're like, what's going on there? Hey, look at that.

[B]

I changed my son's diaper. You know, things happen.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It absolutely happens. So that's hilarious by the way.

[B]

It's bizarre.

[A]

His son is graduating high school in a couple of months and he will love to hear about his little hard diaper dick being talked about nationally and across the entire globe. That's amazing.

[B]

Every parent knows when that happens. Cover it up and duck and. Cause doesn't mean what you think it means.

[A]

Nope. It's flying over your head. That's what it's gonna mean. Holy shit.

[B]

Or hit you.

[A]

Yeah, scary. Yeah, scary. My grandmother used to tell me all the time. I used to piss on her all the time. Maya pee right in My face. She'd say, may, you little bastard. I'd get so mad. Why? It was like a month old. What are we talking about?

[B]

I chose that.

[A]

She thought it was hilarious. So anyway, a week after this incident of her seducing and molesting him, a week later she molested him again and they had intercourse. I don't know. What a 16. I don't get it. I guess I don't get it. I can't stand kids, so I don't want them around me at all. So I don't understand why anybody would want. I'm gonna have sex with an 8 year old. What a weird fucking thought to have for anybody.

[B]

I mean, I don't want it. Yeah. I don't want to picture it.

[A]

No.

[B]

The logistics of it sounds horrible.

[A]

It sounds like. Yeah. Also that would be the other thing. I don't even. Logistically you'd really have to.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's.

[B]

So that's a full grown girl.

[A]

Yeah. She's a teenager. Yeah. The day after that, though, the day after intercourse, he thought this was like his girlfriend now.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

He thought they were in a relationship. Like he doesn't know any better, you know. So the day after that he tried to visit Tinkerbell who lived in an apartment right above the lacroix family. So he was like, I'm gonna go over there and see my girlfriend. See my girlfriend. However, when he started to go up the stairs, he turned the corner and found her coming down the stairs arm in arm with her boyfriend. You know, age appropriate person. Yeah.

[B]

Heartbroken.

[A]

Oh, he was just leveled by this. Jealous. He gave. And then William said that Tinkerbell gave him what he would later call a malevolent smile.

[B]

What?

[A]

That's his interpretation. She might have just smiled at him, you know what I mean? His interpretation was haha, fucker.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, okay. So she's rubbing it in his face.

[A]

Yeah. Nasty. Like a mean spirited smile. Like a. What do you think of that, you little dicked asshole? You know that's how he took it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which we don't know if that's just. Yeah. The filter he's seeing the world through or if she was really trying to be shitty to him too, on top of being a molester. Then his family moved a week later and he never saw Tinkerbell again after that. Which is interesting. But he definitely has an idea of Tinkerbell leaving something behind for him.

[B]

What?

[A]

And we'll talk about it. Yeah. For years he says Tinkerbell put. Basically that she was a witch. And she put a hex on him. We'll talk all about it.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah. For his whole life he thinks that this babysitter molested him and then put a witchcraft hex on him. That's gonna affect him his whole life.

[B]

And the smile was confirmation of what she's done to him.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

That was eye of newt.

[A]

Wink, wink, there you go. Eye of newt, blood of fucking toad. And there you go.

[B]

So that's molestation of a child.

[A]

Yeah, it's crazy. And he's gonna like forever blame that for not the molestation, the hex. He'll blame for everything that happens in his life. It's weird.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Tinkerbell, she doesn't know it, but wow, did she.

[B]

Boy, what has she done?

[A]

She's like tentacles coming out everywhere from Tinkerbell. So there's a social worker's assessment later on talking about his family, starting with William Sr. Let's talk about him. Apparently this. The social worker said that William grew up in a family that was without limits and without boundaries. What a. Everything we'll talk about here, he said. And this was more in the area of gambling, the areas of money and the areas of ready availability of weapons, which right away, for an 8 year old gambling weapons, 16 year olds diddling you. This is a wild upbringing immediately.

[B]

Yeah, he's on the. He's on the outs with the law already.

[A]

Yeah. And like I said, these are kind of. This is a rural area. Even though he didn't grow up, that was in Marietta, but their hearts are really up in the hills there in the hollows.

[B]

Hills, Hearts.

[A]

My heart's in the hills, my buddy. I left my heart in the hollow. That's where my heart's in the holler. That's what it is.

[B]

That is really interesting that they're already living an outlaw lifestyle and they aren't even isolated enough to be outlaws yet.

[A]

No. Maybe that's why they moved out there. Perhaps. And as a matter of fact, this isn't just. That's the tip of the iceberg. Gambling and availability of weapons, that's something. But it's not the main issue here. Several family members demonstrated suicidal behavior. So he had some deep depression going on here as well. He had some mental problems. And the children were poorly supervised, allowed to just run wild as. As noted by, you know, a 16 year old being having sex with your. Your child.

[B]

So she had that child alone long enough to.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Groom and manipulate for this. So.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Him and his brother there with the kissing game. Yeah. And it gets weirder within the extended family. Quote, cousins continued to have sex with each other. Continued to. That's just whatever. Doesn't matter if we're related.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

To engage in sexual behaviors that were sometimes almost right in front of their parents with nothing being said.

[B]

Get the fuck out of here.

[A]

So you could be in your room banging your cousin and your mom's right outside the door and she's like, I don't want to say anything.

[B]

I can hear the certus squeaking. And I'm going to assume it's something else.

[A]

I'm gonna assume they're jumping on the bed. Yeah, they're playing Jackson.

[B]

Very rhythmic bass.

[A]

Yes, very rhythmic. So that's kind of right there. Holy gambling. Weapons. Poorly supervised children. Suicidal behavior. Cousins fucking each other. In common or in common areas. Areas with adults who did not.

[B]

Do you think they're in denial that they don't want to admit that it's happening? Or do you think that they're just fine with it?

[A]

Or they're involved in their own shit? They're drinking, they're worried about. They're worried about the parlay that they bet on. The. Who knows? If we're talking about gambling, it could be anything. These people seem to have other concerns besides the kids.

[B]

This is amazing.

[A]

It's crazy. So then they go on to talk about the male members of William Sr's family. So this is where dad comes from and kind of the crux of everything here. They said they were particularly dismissive of women constantly, I guess the family. You know how people have like a family crest and a motto and things like that? Well, their family motto and their crest is a little different. It's quote, if it weren't for sex, women would have a bounty on their heads. What? That's the.

[B]

We'd kill them if we didn't fuck them.

[A]

We kill them all if they weren't such good fucks. That's. That's. That's the dad's side of the family. So you can see the mom's timidity and all that kind of thing. And why? Because, yeah, if she's not a fucking

[B]

dude, so much better. We'd kill all these.

[A]

That's it. We wouldn't need them. So now within the family unit, William Sr. Was real controlling and abusive, as you might imagine, just from everything here. Particularly controlling of mom, obviously. Frequently sitting her down and interrogating her on anywhere she went for any amount of time. We're talking really sweating her, giving her the third degree, going after that shit. Here, which by the way, I found out what that means. The third degree.

[B]

The third degree.

[A]

The third degree, where it came from.

[B]

Venture a guess. What the fuck would I know?

[A]

It's the weirdest thing. There was a. Real quickly. There was a New York City detective in the 1800s, okay. And he was like the best at cracking people, quote, unquote. And this is when you could beat the out of people. You know, you could beat them with a rubber hose to get them talk.

[B]

There's no, there's no cameras nor recorders.

[A]

So there was. They said the first degree was the uniform police officers talking to them. Yeah. And then if you didn't spill it to them, then the second degree was detectives would come in and talk to you. And then if you still didn't spill it, they'd go, you want to have the third degree? And everyone would go, no, no, no, because that was. That detective is going to come in and beat a confession out of them. So that one particular detective was the third degree. That's what that means.

[B]

One guy.

[A]

One guy. He's the third degree that will beat a confession out of you. That's what the third degree means. That weird.

[B]

Just a dude with rings on.

[A]

Yeah, just a dude with like a blackjack in his back pocket ready to crack. You on top of.

[B]

Is the guy with several wedding rings.

[A]

Yep, that's it. He's graduated from like five different colleges. Boy, they're all lined up.

[B]

He's state champ four times.

[A]

Here he goes. You know it. Four times over. Holy shit. So anyway, that's pretty crazy. He would constantly accuse her of being unfaithful to him, even though she didn't do anything really. But be at the house. They end up getting a divorce later on, as we'll talk about here. And they said the divorce was particularly terrible. Whereas this is wild. This is. In front of the kids. He did this. William Lacroix Sr. Threatened to rape and kill Donna, his wife, and all of her co workers as well. I'll rape all of them and kill them all. Which I admire your confidence, sir, but calm down a little bit. I don't think you're going to be doing all that. The guys too? Who else? Raping everybody. He's gonna rape his mother and kill his coworkers. Say that in front of the children, which is.

[B]

The insecurities of a man that controls women is fucking mind blowing.

[A]

It's insane.

[B]

It should be studied so much more.

[A]

I don't get it. I just, I don't see it. I don't Understand it.

[B]

It's been a problem since the beginning.

[A]

Yeah, I get it. Till you're like 23. Cause you don't understand when you're young and you have that weird energy of jealousy and like, what's she doing? Why is she talking to that guy? When you get to be older, you're like, whatever.

[B]

In your 30s, you should just be.

[A]

Trust someone or not. That's it.

[B]

Yeah, I can't imagine. I can't imagine.

[A]

It's crazy. I don't get it either. I'm not there at all. I'm just not. You know what I mean? Imagine if, like, this was modern times and she had like a phone and shit. He'd be ripping it out of her hand, going through. Who you talking to? It's the computer. Or a computer.

[B]

It would take all day to hunt down what she did technologically.

[A]

Yeah, it really would. It'd be a huge pain in the ass. They had an episode here where William Sr. Put a gun to Donna's forehead. Yeah, Put a gun to mom's forehead in front of the kids.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

This is a different situation from when he threatened to kill and rape everybody that she ever met. Then he ended up giving his gun to William and saying, hang on to this to keep me from killing her. If you don't hold this gun, I'm gonna kill your mother. So you hang onto it.

[B]

If you see me killing her, shoot me. Is that what he's saying?

[A]

No, he's saying, take this gun so I don't use it to shoot your mother.

[B]

Oh, you just hang on to the weapon that I would use to destroy your mother.

[A]

Yeah, he held it to her forehead and rather than shooting her, he handed it to William and said, you hang on to this. So I don't use it to kill her.

[B]

Never use this in self defense of your mother either.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. Let me kill her. If I'm going to strangle her with

[B]

my bare hand, I get a hold of her.

[A]

You put the gun under your bed or something. Put it between your mattress and your box springs.

[B]

Just make sure I don't hurt her with this.

[A]

Yes. Okay. Now that's a lot of trauma.

[B]

That's a lot of responsibility for a boy.

[A]

That's too much here. Yeah, I would say that's a lot. Which, I mean, you know, that's bad. He obviously could use. If anyone could use a little therapy, I think it's this kid. As a kid here, he could use something somebody talked to. They eventually get divorced. Okay. Luckily, Donna and William Sr. Donna remarries. She marries a man named Sam Houston, which is hilarious.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

Yeah. She married Sam Houston, either the founder

[B]

of Houston or the actor.

[A]

Or the actor. So age 17, William joins the army. All right. And this is very similar to a case that we'll talk about later on in the week, too, when it comes to this type of thing. Lot of people, especially in a certain time period, this is 1987, they thought that if you just set. No matter what troubles a kid has, if you just send them in the army, they'll push up the troubles away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what it was.

[B]

Military, press and prepared meals, that makes them normal.

[A]

Which really doesn't help. I mean, it might help. And some people, it does help them a lot. They need the structure and they thrive in the structure. Some people need psychological intervention. They need therapy too. Maybe this also.

[B]

But it does help to have a regimen and a day laid out for you and ordered to follow that. But the problem is when the punishment is go back home. That's not enough. They're just. I. E. Jeffrey Dahmer eventually you just can't hack it and they send you home to be with yourself. That's not good.

[A]

And some people have never had any structure in their entire lives. And then they go into the army and they can't hack it because they've never had any structure. And some people who've never had any structure immediately take to it and thrive in it. So you really never know how somebody's gonna react to going into the service. But. And it is fascinating, they thought this would solve everything.

[B]

Being yelled at is rarely the answer to fixing.

[A]

Usually not.

[B]

That scared straight thing doesn't work. It's not a thing.

[A]

No. And told to do physical, you know, do push ups. Like, is that gonna. And yeah, but some people. It does. I don't get it. It's a weird thing. It's just you never know how the personality is going to respond. So he joined the army to escape home. Essentially. Just it's a mess at home. So he joins at 17. Early in his career, though, he breaks his ankle in the Army. In the army, which. His goal was to become a paratrooper. That's what he wanted to do. You break your ankle and you fuck that up, you're not going to be a paratrooper anymore.

[B]

Yeah, he may have done that jumping too. You know what I mean?

[A]

This was in some other basic training

[B]

thing, preparation of jumping. He broke. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that was going to explode. It wasn't gonna work. Yeah. His whole body would have disintegrated the second he landed.

[B]

If your ankle breaks in preparation of the jump, yeah, you're not gonna make it.

[A]

But that's his goal here, to be his paratrooper, and that's dashed pretty early. He's stationed in Hawaii, which. Not bad, dude. You lucky son of a bitch. I mean, that's where you're stationed. There's people stationed in Mississippi, you know, like you're stationed in Hawaii.

[B]

I'd be kicked off so fast.

[A]

Oh, God. Well, he started drinking and taking drugs while he was in Hawaii, because I would too. He's in Hawaii. Yeah. This is much better than the Army. Thanks for the ticket, guys. I'm done. Appreciate the plane fare, but I'm out of here.

[B]

This place is so much better with alcohol and drugs.

[A]

Isn't this great? Oh, look at. There's girls dancing around this terror.

[B]

And it's the best place already.

[A]

And he's 17. This sounds great. So he ends up going AWOL, then getting arrested and, you know, all that kind of thing. Getting discharged and all that kind of thing. He went AWOL and lived on the streets of Honolulu. He just went. He was like, well, the weather's nice enough. And just became a homeless army guy. That he would support himself by breaking into homes to steal food, which that's got an expiration date on that. I would say that's not gonna last forever. And he was arrested in 1989 for doing such things. And he is discharged from the Army. They're like, we haven't seen him in so long. We should probably just cut ties with him. We're gonna go ahead and write that guy off. I think.

[B]

I don't think we're gonna write that under deserter.

[A]

Yeah, deserter. So he gets discharged from the army and he comes home to Cobb county, so. Still down there. And moves in with his mother, Donna, and her husband, Sam Houston. So he's 19 years old now. Sam Houston, by the way, apparently at one point, William Lacroix was a cop. Is that right? Senior was a cop. Yeah. The abusive one who threatened to rape and kill everyone and put guns to people's foreheads and shit. He was a cop. Now, Sam Houston was a former partner on the force of William Lacroix Sr.

[B]

Imagine that.

[A]

So if he was an unpleasant cat before, imagine what he's like now.

[B]

Partner is fucking your ex wife and living with her.

[A]

That'll make a sane person who doesn't beat the shit out of his family and hold guns to his wife's head and threaten rape to go crazy. That'll make anybody go crazy. That's like when they say crime of passion, they're talking about that of him strangling that man to death while he's in a tuxedo on the altar. That's crime of passion.

[B]

It's his partner. It's not just a coworker on the force.

[A]

Some guy knew partner. Which means that they've had families of a car together, they rode in a car together. They know each other's lives. That's fucked up. That's fucked up. So for once, I'd be fine with William flying off the handle here, but he doesn't.

[B]

I don't know if I'm fine with it, but I understand.

[A]

I understand. No, I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it. I'm not saying you should threaten to rape anybody or put a gun to someone's forehead, but if he wants to go, fucking call that guy out on the front lawn and say, put up your fucking dukes, asshole. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think that guy earned it 100% by doing that. If you marry your partner's wife, I think at some point you go, I might end up with a black eye out of this. This is extremely possible.

[B]

If not a duel, just a common ass duel.

[A]

Something bad's gonna happen. This isn't gonna go without recourse. We'll put it that way. So he's living there. This is just northwest of Atlanta, like we said, Marietta. And by the way, by this time, he's 19 years old. He's 6 foot 5, 210 pounds. He's a big guy.

[B]

Big kid.

[A]

William Junior's a big kid. And he's got tattoos on him. Cause now he was in the army and he went to Hawaii and got a bunch of tattoos on him.

[B]

He's been homeless, Jackson.

[A]

So what he does now is, by the way, Sam Houston has a couple of daughters as well, young daughters. One of them is 13 years old by the time William gets back. Her name's Alicia. And he begins what the court documents will call a sexual relationship with her, which is he begins molesting a 13 year old. We gotta stop with the. There's words for things.

[B]

There's words and words mean things.

[A]

And if you're 13, if she's 13 and you're 19, you're molesting that kid.

[B]

Why are we softening child exploitation? Why are we softening that ever?

[A]

I am not the guy to fucking give you a diagnosis on That I think you can. There's plenty out there.

[B]

Child rape has to stop.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Why? Because adults can't handle the word rape. Is that what it is?

[A]

It's a molesting. Oh, that's the word they don't want put on them, so they put sexual relationship and people will change. 13 year old child to young woman. Fuck. I mean, shit like that. That's how language is very important.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Yep. Molestation is the word you're looking for. Molesting. And that's what's happening here? Well, rape pretty much it. Yeah.

[B]

If there's.

[A]

They're not old enough to consent, yes, that's rape. Period.

[B]

Fucking rape.

[A]

Don't care if they.

[B]

End of story.

[A]

Don't care if the 13 year old put rose petals all over the bed and cooked you dinner. It's still rape. Sorry, you can't fuck a 13 year old.

[B]

Sang her a song and wrote her a poem.

[A]

Don't give a shit, don't care. I mean, if she did that stuff, I still don't care if she was trying to seduce you. Doesn't matter. 13. And what 19 year old wants a 13 year old around?

[B]

None. Nobody you know.

[A]

Any friends with older sisters with tits? That's what you'd be asking. Got any friends with like much older sisters that I could bang around with? Maybe not that. So anyway, that's what's going on. The parents, Sam Houston and Donna discover this relationship around January of 1990. What's that? Good? Not good. Well, this is, by the way, Alicia's just shy of her 14th birthday at this point. Eighth grade.

[B]

Gross.

[A]

We're talking. Yeah. Well, the relationship was discovered by Alicia's mother, Sam Houston's ex wife. She found a note written by Alicia to a friend detailing the sexual encounter she had with Lacroix, which. How many kids get caught for things because they wrote it down? They wrote it in a diary, they wrote a letter. Not so much nowadays, I don't think because everything's digital you can hide things a little better, but when you had a physical book that you wrote in your handwriting and put it in your third drawer, you could get. That's rough.

[B]

I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that how Epstein got caught? Because one of the girls wrote something down?

[A]

I mean, I'm sure a lot of them did. So there were so many, who knows?

[B]

No, I mean, I think it got

[A]

blown out because there was a fist

[B]

fight between two girls at school and one of them had something written down

[A]

about $300, something like that. The two. Well, yeah, because the one was mad at the other. Yeah, I remember here in the 2009,

[B]

I read that book, but children write a lot.

[A]

Yeah, they do.

[B]

Don't fuck with me kids at all.

[A]

Well, in this case, I'm glad she did because this got found out before he did more to her. But yeah, if you're a kid and you don't want to be found out, don't write it down.

[B]

Don't write anything.

[A]

Yeah, no. So that's pretty interesting. Now the craziest thing is at the same exact time this is going on that he's molesting his stepsister. His brother Chad had a sexual relationship with the other stepsister, Priscilla. I'm not sure of the age on that one. Not sure. Now Chad's two years younger, so he's actually a minor at this point. He's actually 17. But still, unless she's 16 or 17, it's still gross. And it's his stepsister. Don't fuck your stepsister.

[B]

Younger than right?

[A]

I believe so. Younger then. And then he took that idea and pornhub was born.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sure enough, he said, I have an idea for a site's content and it'll

[B]

be the entire homepage. You'll have to dig through seven pages to find something that's not that themed.

[A]

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[B]

Now back to the show.

[A]

So that's what's going on here in this house. These kids are a mess. Obviously everybody's fucking everybody. It's crazy. Now Alicia's mother urges the cops to prosecute William for statutory rape. A good mother. Get this kid. Get this kid.

[B]

That's Sam Houston's ex wife.

[A]

That's Sam Houston's ex wife. Yeah. Around the same time that the cops are aware of William Lacroix for this incident and they're looking into it. There's also they're investigating a string of residential burglaries in late 1990 and early 1991. A detective named Kevin Flynn identifies William Lacroix as a number one suspect here now, March 3, 1991. This is while they're all investigating this and everything. He's pulled over for having bald tires on his car.

[B]

Is that illegal?

[A]

It is illegal. Cause it's unsafe equipment.

[B]

You bet.

[A]

But how do you tell unless you're at a stoplight and you look over tires so bald. They gotta be so bald. I think basically they wanted to pull him over because he was a suspect in the other thing and they were looking for a reason, and that was the bald tires. Now they search his car. They found a holster, a gun, and several handwritten notes. What do they say again? Stop writing shit down. Everybody just stop it. If you can't remember it, you'll think of it later. Don't worry about it. One of the notes here describes a plan to, quote, rob cars and kill people driving so the car can be used for two or three days. So just a succession of murders to use the carjacking, robberies. Yeah, until it gets it's hot and then switch it off for another dead person's car. Another list had listed steps, including burglarize house, flee and switch cars. Do you need to write this down? Really?

[B]

No. That's pretty easy to remember.

[A]

Seems easy. Be ruthless and famous. That's one of his goals. Burglarize house, flee and switch cars. Be ruthless and famous. Don't forget this murdering car thief over here. Who is he? And also to quote, rape, rob and pillage.

[B]

Those are all things he needed to remember by writing. Don't forget laundry detergent. These are what he did.

[A]

On top, it said, how to be a pirate. He wrote all that shit. What the fuck?

[B]

Yeah, you gotta rape, rob and pillage. And then you gotta kill people and take the boat.

[A]

Take their stuff, burglarize their house. Why not take the boat? You got it.

[B]

So he wrote down, be serial killer for benefit of take car.

[A]

Yeah, to do that, to take car. That's his famous. His string of crimes that he wanted to put together was, I'm the carjack murderer guy.

[B]

You could solve this with a bus pass. This is so crazy.

[A]

This is crazy. Or just buy a shit car. Get a job and buy a car, you lazy fuck. What are we talking about here?

[B]

There's no reason to do any of that.

[A]

None of this shit. He had a third document here. So we got one. Rob cars and kill people driving so that the car can be used for two or three days. Then burglarize house, flee and switch cars. Be ruthless and famous. Rape, rob and pillage. That's two separate notes.

[B]

1990s Blackbeard. Nice.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I'm ready to go here. A third document had on the top H L, which it's actually a hit list. That's how it shortens it. HL Got my HL Going right here at the top. And it has a list of names, a hit list targeting number one, his stepfather's ex wife, the mother of Alicia,

[B]

who had one that started put away. Involved in this shit.

[A]

Yeah, Law enforcement personnel. Specific ones that he was after? A few, no, not that particular ones that were on his case. And then quote anyone who stands between me and freedom or escape. That's his hit list. So there's anybody really that crosses him at any time?

[B]

There's no objective.

[A]

Nope, just.

[B]

It's just vindicate. Revenge.

[A]

Revenge. It's just piss and vinegar. I mean if you could put. If you could just put him in a room for 10 years, all this would burn off usually.

[B]

But hopefully. Fuck.

[A]

I don't know if this burns off. I mean the normal stuff burns off, but I don't think rape, rob and pillaged things burn off. I think you probably want to keep doing that.

[B]

And the end goal is what?

[A]

That's what I mean it's not like then rob this bank and get million dollars. There's no Ocean's Eleven scheme here. And then this is the big heist, the big last heist where I'll then retire and go to back to Hawaii to live. It's none of that shit.

[B]

Let's just rape, rob, pillage until people get in my way. Then kill them and keep killing until everybody leaves me alone.

[A]

And rinse and repeat. I think is the.

[B]

Even in grand Theft auto, you. You can't win.

[A]

There's stars.

[B]

Eventually they're gonna waste you. You're gonna.

[A]

I mean I know the code and everything, but still you can get rid

[B]

of those as much you want till you get into a no fly zone. Then it doesn't go away.

[A]

Five stars, baby. All the time. You fly over the base, you're screwed.

[B]

Then you're in trouble.

[A]

Then you're in trouble. You're in a lot of trouble. They're gonna come after you with jets and shit. Yeah.

[B]

And then you respawn at the hospital

[A]

minus some money, minus some cash. But you still have all your weapons.

[B]

Still got everything.

[A]

So that's what he's doing here now.

[B]

Holy shit.

[A]

August of 1991. He is going to be in a lot of trouble. They take him in and they have everything that he did and they basically kind of ball it up into one case. Now it's two cases actually because he is going to be sent to state prison for aggravated assault, 10 counts of burglary, child molestation and statutory rape.

[B]

Okay, those are real bad inside too.

[A]

That's a lot of charges right there. It's a big old stack of charges.

[B]

It's a stack of scum amongst thieves too. It's a stack of everybody inside is going to fucking hate you.

[A]

Maybe. Unless he has the right tattoos. And then they won't. That's the thing you always hear that it all goes away when you talk to people who've actually been in prison. It's not true if some fucking doughy, fat little accountant who's never been in trouble before molested a bunch of kids and comes through, yeah, they'll steal all his shit and they'll slap him around, they'll do all that. But if some fucking guy with an iron cross on his fucking left tit shows up and, you know, says, where's my swastika? He's gonna have a ton of friends. It's not gonna matter. You know what I mean? If he's in one of the gangs, it won't matter.

[B]

That's how it works in ways in the now. They make everything fucking political. The sheriff tries to make sure that anybody in his prison system or jail

[A]

system, say again I said that goes for any gang. Doesn't have to be the Nazi gang. It could be this gang or that gang.

[B]

But he'll isolate the people that are targetable to keep them safe. Because 1, 2 deaths doesn't matter a lot of times. Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One or two deaths inside your prison without you being able to control it doesn't look good.

[A]

It doesn't look good, no. So they try to do that and. Yeah, but this guy though, that's not his deal. He's gonna be just fine in prison.

[B]

He's big as fuck, right?

[A]

He's a huge guy. And it's 1991 when people couldn't virtue signal constantly on their social media about stuff. So the prisoners weren't gonna say we don't like. They just were like, hey, what's up, dude? And they couldn't look up his charges too? Back then you couldn't find out what somebody did unless somebody told you. Yeah. So people would lie about their charges like crazy in the 90s. So then he catches a federal charge, that's all state time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Then he's convicted on a federal charge of possession of a sawed off shotgun, which adds five more years federal time.

[B]

So that's after the fact.

[A]

So, yeah, he's sentenced to 20 years state time, then five years federal time in a separate facility and everything like that. So he's not gonna do that much time. He'll end up doing about 10 years in prison altogether. Out of the 25, 82. Yes. Like seven and three kind of deal. In 1992, he attempted suicide in state prison.

[B]

In the joint.

[A]

Yeah. Didn't like it very much. Other things he did while he's in prison.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

He gets obsessed with witchcraft. Obsessed with it. He looks into it. He reads about it. He really, really, really gets into witchcraft. Talks to other people who know about it, know about it, and gets real into witchcraft to try to figure out that hex that. That babysitter put Tinkerbell put on him.

[B]

Oh, he's trying to get to the bottom of it because he's got some time to figure it out.

[A]

Got about 10 years to kill here. So he became convinced that supernatural forces were at work in every aspect of his life and that people, including, and mostly Tinkerbell, could cast spells and that hexes were 100% real.

[B]

100%.

[A]

So he found, like, the voodoo contingency of his shit.

[B]

Found the guy in there.

[A]

He was released from State Prison in 97 after serving a little over six years and then ordered to federal prison for the weapons charge. And then he does almost four there. So three, and he does six and change, and three and change. So he does about 11 total. Now 2001, he is paroled. We're letting this guy out who has definitely not rehabilitated himself in any way. He's just now obsessed with witchcraft, too, on top of everything else, which. That's just what he needed, a weird supernatural obsession. Right? So 2001 is parole. He begins his supervised probation and is welcomed into the home of his mother and Sam Houston, which, if I'm Sam Houston, you're never coming to my house again. You rape my daughter. Well, sorry.

[B]

He likely feels a little safer now that those daughters are probably out of the house.

[A]

Well, yeah. Cause that was 10 years ago. So they're in their mid-20s now. But what are you gonna do for Thanksgiving? You gonna have them come over and look at this guy who just got out of jail for molesting them? That's crazy. Can't do that. You can't come over.

[B]

Maybe mom talked him into. Well, on those days he's not allowed over.

[A]

I don't. I don't know. I don't know. I'm sure she had to talk him into some. Sure. He didn't say, oh, William's getting out. Tell him to come on over. Yeah, tell him to move in. Spare rooms all fixed up for him. I'll put a TV in there. Let's get Back on his feet. Yeah, let's help him. I really want this guy in my house. So by then, though, this is on Cherry Log Mountain is where they live. So they live in the hills in Cherry Log. So this is September 2001. Now. Okay. Which. It's a pretty eventful month, I would say.

[B]

A smidge.

[A]

It's a tad bit in America. A little bit of a historical month,

[B]

to say the least.

[A]

Now, during this, as a condition of his release, he's ordered to undergo a psychosexual evaluation in 2001.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

It sounds like a disco song. Yeah, it's fucking crazy. The psychosexual. Yeah. Playing at that festival right after the booty. Poppas. Yeah, psycho. Imagine if the state mandated you to get a psychosexual evaluation.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Oh, I'd feel miserable. I'd be so sad. I'd feel so sad.

[B]

What kind of questions must those be?

[A]

Oh, God. Jesus. Yeah. So when you see this, your dick gets hard. Right? Right. Like when you see, like a roadkill, does your dick get hard then? No.

[B]

Okay, so when you masturbated yesterday, what

[A]

to do, what to what exactly and for how long? Okay, so it was that for 10 minutes, and then another three minutes on somebody else. Okay. Oh, then finally you hit the jackpot where you were going that day.

[B]

When you do masturbate, jot it down tomorrow.

[A]

Yeah, just give me a little. Bring that notebook to me, give me an overview. You'll have a free hand. Don't worry about it. Just give me an overview.

[B]

Do it while.

[A]

So he shows up here on September 18th. So that's a week later. They probably just reopened, for Christ's sake. To complete the condition of his federal probation. He ends up leaving before he's seen by the person who's supposed to evaluate.

[B]

Really?

[A]

He said that he had to leave because, quote, the people in the waiting room reminded him of child molesters. There must have been a huge mirror in the waiting room. And he was like, oh, man, there's a big, giant, 6 foot 5 child molester out here. I see him.

[B]

There he is, just a bunch of mirrors aimed at other mirrors. And he's like, there's so many child molesters. They're like, it's just you.

[A]

Yeah, it's just you.

[B]

It's only you.

[A]

Did we tell you the Federal Probation office is actually inside a fun house? Because it is. It's actually inside a funhouse. It's all mirrors. One made him look real fat.

[B]

Some long ones, some short ones.

[A]

Yeah. Just to Ruin his confidence, you know? Some wobbly. Some made him look wobbly. He's like, am I drunk? What happened? So they looked. They reminded him of child molesters. So he left.

[B]

They probably were all child molesters, man.

[A]

That's why they're having psychosexual evaluations. I've never had one of those at all. They're not here.

[B]

Cause they fuck normal adult people.

[A]

No, absolutely not. They're not there.

[B]

Fuck wild or illegal things or children. Right.

[A]

Illegal, yeah. Illegal as fuck. So he could have been sent back to prison for a year just based on him walking out of this. But they gave him another chance. They gave him another chance and they rescheduled his appointment for October 22nd.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Okay. So he's getting another chance here. Not too shabby. And the probation officer warned, if you are not back that day, you will go directly to prison. We're just gonna send marshals to your house to get you. Cause it's federal prison. So there you go. He's getting real weird during this time period too.

[B]

Oh, is that rescue?

[A]

The witchcraft and the prison and everything has made him a little bit weird. I think. Sam Houston, his stepdad, is growing more and more concerned by the day about what a weirdo he is. He's basically spending all his time in his bedroom on his computer. Oh, that's all he's doing. Which is basically illegal, man. Just in there in the bedroom, and he is. He probably smells horrible. You know what I mean? Just horrible. The computer, we find out later, was used to search for survival gear out there. And he used the scanner, which in 2001 was pretty good technology. He used the scanner to scan Sam Houston's passport as well.

[B]

Oh, one of the printer scanner things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Scan it into the computer. Okay. Now, on the back of this is what he did too. He wrote shit down that he needed on the back of his evaluation scheduling letter. So he has a scheduling letter for a psychosexual evaluation. He's like, let me put crime stuff on the back of this. Cool.

[B]

The laundry list of things I need for being a criminal.

[A]

For criminal stuff. Yeah. Survival gear is the way he put it. He wrote need to acquire list on top.

[B]

Sleeping bag.

[A]

No, actually, binoculars, boots, gloves, guns, ammunition, for sure. Food, water.

[B]

None of these are survival things. Except for the food and water.

[A]

Except for the food and water. Yeah. These are things to go do something bad. That's all they are. They're not to stay somewhere for a while.

[B]

No survival at all. Food and water, which should be given.

[A]

You would Imagine, food and water would be a good. Nope. Not a sleeping bag. Nothing. Not a porta Potty. Nothing. Roll of toilet paper. Not a goddamn thing.

[B]

Shocking. He had to write down food and water.

[A]

Food, water. Like he would have forgot that. He'd have got out there with his binoculars and his guns and his ammo and his boots on and everything.

[B]

I'm hungry and thirsty.

[A]

I'm hungry. Oh, you know what I forgot? Food and water. Son of a bitch.

[B]

How did I forget that I got the boots? I can eat those. Timberlands.

[A]

Oh, my God. He also purchases plastic cable ties, which are like the little zip ties that go around, like your cables, if you bunch up your computer cables and zip them together. And camouflage makeup.

[B]

Oh, yeah, he got that.

[A]

Yeah. So you can creep through the bushes. Okay, let's enter another character into this story here. A very lovely young woman here, Joanne Lee Teasler. T, I, E S L E R. Tisler or Teezler. I'm not positive. Joanne. Now, Joanne couldn't be more different than William. Let's just say right away. I mean, she's totally different. Nice family, smart, studious, does her thing. She grew up in Franklin, Tennessee, which is south of Nashville. There. Yeah. You know where that is. Her parents are Tom and Janie. She's got a brother named either Case or Casey. C, A, Y, C, E. Could be Casey. Could be Case.

[B]

That's Casey, right?

[A]

I think so. Never know. Now, Casey here said that when he was 4 years old and Joanne was 3, their parents got a divorce.

[B]

Yeah, that happens.

[A]

Which it happens. And sometimes they end up making crime lists. And sometimes, sometimes, if the parents handle it right, you end up with a very nice, well adjusted young person.

[B]

Sometimes you end up with two happy homes, which is the goal of every divorce. Should be.

[A]

That. Should be the goal. Yeah. Yeah. But to make yours a little bit better, though. That's part of it, too. Make your home just that much, a little bit better than the other one.

[B]

It should be a go kart.

[A]

Yeah. It's just like Mom's house, but with a go kart. Yeah. What do you think of that?

[B]

Just like Mom's house, but a dirt bike.

[A]

But a dirt bike, huh? What do you think? But the Xbox is in your room.

[B]

It's not in the living room.

[A]

Not in the living room. You do whatever you want with it. That's fucking amazing.

[B]

Ah, divorce is fun to laugh about.

[A]

Once you're on the other side, it's all you can do. It's either that or you start writing down boots, binoculars, camouflage makeup. Food, water.

[B]

When you have to remind yourself about food and water. You fucked up.

[A]

You fucked something up good, man. That's funny. So Casey said Joanne had issues with men and I had issues with self esteem. That's what he says. He said she countered my self esteem. I let her know that guys were okay. So they said they basically helped each other that way.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

She bolstered him and he let her know that not every guy's an asshole.

[B]

It's okay to toss one aside.

[A]

Exactly. So that is great that the kids kind of being that close in age helps because they could really relate to each other. And that's helpful. He, as a matter of fact, said, she was the one person in life that I always connected with. With, like, as a young. When they were young. So that's great. She went to Franklin High School. She played on the girls soccer team, which was a nationally competitive program. Like, not just local. They were nationally ranked. Yeah, she was an athlete and a very good student once. This is how nice she is, by the way. She was taking a walk and was attacked by three large dogs.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

That's terrifying, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

After coming home from the emergency room, she didn't say, I hate dogs or I'm interested in dogs. She said, mom, I'm sure glad those dogs got me. Why? You ask why? There was a child in a stroller further down the road could have got the baby. So better that the dogs mauled me than that baby. That's a nice person. It's a very caring.

[B]

What injuries sustained, do we know?

[A]

Not sure exactly. And it's not the way they worked

[B]

by three fucking dogs. It's a lot.

[A]

Three large dogs. I think it ended up just being stitches and things like that. Nothing life altering, but something that would

[B]

have torn apart an infant.

[A]

Absolutely. You know it. And even later on, too, because she's gonna be a nurse later and we'll talk about what kind of nurse. But there is a sign in her office saying, if you cannot pay for your services, let me know. In other words, I'll do it anyway. That's how nice she is. It'll be free.

[B]

I mean, obviously.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not gonna leave you to. So after high school, she had a scholarship to Berry College in Rome, which is a small, private liberal arts school. Oh, Rome, Georgia. Rome, Georgia. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's really going overseas. Wow. Look at her branching out. This actually has the largest contiguous campus in the world.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

A small college, but it's the largest campus that doesn't have, like, breaks in it. One campus together in the world. In the world. You know, like ASU has. Like asu, but then they have west and they have this one and that wouldn't count all the ones on one. It has 27,000 acres of forests, fields and mountains. Wow. Somebody very wealthy must have donated that to a college to start one because that's how most colleges start back in the day, 27,000 acres of woods. She's going for nursing here. She's going to be a nurse practitioner person which are. Are insanely useful. Especially now when medical care is so crazy expensive and all that kind of thing. Those nurse practitioners will save your life.

[B]

It's also very helpful to streamline for the doctor who's. Because you can balance severity for him.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Versus she can take care of the not as severe things.

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah. And it gives the doctors more leeway, basically. And yeah, these people, nurse practitioners, really, they're amazing. Huge, huge part of what we have going on right now. So a friend here, she helped a teacher that became a friend of hers too build a fitness center. A friend later wrote that every time she visited Joanne at Barry College, Joanne would take her blood pressure and run about 10 other readings on her practicing too.

[B]

Ticker vital. Yeah.

[A]

She said she was always afraid something would happen to me and then I couldn't be there for her. So she's like, got to make sure you're not gonna have a stroke here.

[B]

Make sure your friend is on tip top.

[A]

It's like 21 year old girl coming over there. She's like, hold on a minute. Let me make sure you're not gonna explode.

[B]

I'll learn vitals when I start coming over here. James.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You should just run it.

[A]

Run it a few times. She graduated from Barry with all A's and one B and she was pissed off at herself. She got a B in C in swimming. So nothing that really matters for her career path anyway.

[B]

How do you get a B in swimming?

[A]

I don't know. I'm not sure. It seems like if you try real hard, you just get an A. Right?

[B]

It feels like you got in the pool and got out with help. That's an A.

[A]

That's an A. You're floating.

[B]

You did it.

[A]

Are you breathing outside the water? Terrific.

[B]

I mean, the whole grading of swimming is sink or swim, right? You swam, you win.

[A]

That's an A. I guess times are involved or something like that. I'm not sure.

[B]

Sometimes you don't sink, you still fail.

[A]

Her strokes were a little off. I don't get it, man. Wow. She got a B though. Now after Barry, she moves back to Tennessee and attends Vanderbilt University, which is a very good school actually this is on a work scholarship where she earns her master's degree as a family nurse practitioner, graduating with honors.

[B]

Wow. From Vandy.

[A]

Yeah. She is doing very well. She's very smart and she's very nice too. She also likes to like go mountain climbing and stuff like that. Real active, like she's got a lot going on. She climbed the Grand Teton Mountains in Wyoming a bunch of times with her mom and would rappel the cliffs and do all that shit. Yeah, she's like cliffhanger this. Really climbing, really climbing. Yeah.

[B]

Just one in front of the other.

[A]

Yeah. Not like Arizona hiking where you're just walking up a dirt hill that gets a little steeper sometimes, but you're still walking up a dirt hill.

[B]

Congratulations on not twisting your ankle, you lazy fuck.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. The challenge is do it when It's a buck 17 and see how you like it. But when it's 73 degrees outside, really anyone should be able to do that. Who's got mobility, normal mobility.

[B]

They made that shit illegal. The 117, it's very similar to. Yeah, it's about time.

[A]

How much was that costing the city? Having helicopters fucking dangling people off of ropes as they had to save them constantly.

[B]

It's the same law as if you cross a flooded wash and you. And you need to get saved, then

[A]

you're paying for it.

[B]

Yeah, the dumb driver or whatever it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Stupid motorist or whatever term that they probably shouldn't be calling people.

[A]

No, no, I think they should be calling them that because you don't want that.

[B]

I don't disagree.

[A]

But you know what I mean, Never mind. Just the fine you are to be in court with someone to adjudicate you. A stupid motorist. That might be enough for you to go, I don't want to be a stupid idiot motorist. That might be enough embarrassment for you. We should call. Everything here is your dipshit charges. Okay. You did this, you did that. Yeah. The dipshit hiker law. That's what they should call it. Wow. So 1999, after graduation, she accepts a position with the National Health Service Corps. Now this provides medical care to underserved populations in rural North Georgia. Remember Doc Hollywood?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what she is.

[B]

Anything called core is considered like almost charitable work, right?

[A]

Yes. And that's it. She signs up for a two year stint up here to do this. And this is exactly Doc Hollywood the woman in Doc Hollywood, the female lead who, you know, took him around to all the different houses and they would read the letters to people and do. This is exactly what she does. Wow. Sometimes people are just lonely and they call and they. So she'll come talk to them for a while. Sometimes it's medical problems. Sometimes it might be to read to somebody. It's literally exactly. Like sometimes it might be to piss all over the woods to throw out the deer hunters. You never know.

[B]

Keep those hunters from getting their game.

[A]

So the kid, I was like, wow. She was just pulling her pants down, squatting, going to the squat. I was like, this is really.

[B]

She had a lot of piths. She could pinch off a lot.

[A]

How do you pinch off wrists like that? Yes. I mean, her Kegels are affecting her bladder muscles, too.

[B]

So tight.

[A]

Not just her vaginal muscles. Her bladder muscles are tight.

[B]

I'd have to pinch off the dick. I wouldn't be able to do that.

[A]

No. He'd have to get you something to wrap around it like a junkie on his arm. Got to tie Jimmy off with a rubber hose tomorrow. Yeah. So that's what she's doing, though. And if you don't understand where we're

[B]

going, to piss on a cup and

[A]

sprinkle a little bit here, a bit here and there.

[B]

Why not that?

[A]

If you don't know what we're talking about in Doc Holliday is a movie with Michael J. Fox.

[B]

Go watch it. You'll figure it out.

[A]

You'll figure it out. You'll get to that point. She was pissing all over the woods, and she was a nurse practitioner, and so was he. And he was pissing, too. She was telling him to, and he was like, oh, shit. Okay. He's trying to fuck her. So he was like, I'll piss wherever you want me to. Sounds great. Is this foreplay? Awesome. What do we got going on? Some foreplay.

[B]

Men are so easy. I'll put it wherever you want.

[A]

We don't care. If they say, take your dick out, we're like, sure. What are we doing with it? No problem. Piss over there. Okay. We don't care. Can I put it in your mouth now? No. Okay. Shit. I'll be over here. Not yet. Not yet. Okay. That's worth the time.

[B]

I'm keep asking.

[A]

Yep. Just ask every 10 minutes or so in case you forget to bring it up.

[B]

Is this working?

[A]

Is it working for you? So that's what she's doing. And this is the Blue Ridge, Ella J. Cherry log area is where she's doing this. So from 99 to 2001, she treated over 3,000 patients. Wow. It was a lot. She's very busy pumping and there's only 800 people in the area.

[B]

And that's two years.

[A]

That's over two years.

[B]

That's like five a day, right?

[A]

Yeah, it's a lot. So she's seeing a lot of people and she's going out to them or they come to her sometimes. It depends. She worked out of the medical offices in Blue Ridge and Elijah, and she lived in a cabin that she bought on Cherry Log Mountain, right near the Appalachian Trail. So that's where she lives. It's a nice little cabin. She has a car, she lives alone, she's doing what she loves. And In April of 2001, she actually. Her two year thing that she signed up for is over. So she can leave if she wants, but she decides to stay. She decides she likes it up here and she thinks she's making a difference in these people's lives in this area. So she decides to stay. Besides having no family or despite having no family or anything like that in the area, they had moved, I think to Florida is where they end up later on. So by 2001, she's 30 years old, she's engaged to a man named Larry Flowers who lives in Rome, Georgia. And her plan was to start her own practice and marry Larry. There we go. And then that's how it works here, which, I mean, she's got a whole thing going on here. She's got her plan. Friday, October 5, 2001. Donna and Sam Houston. Okay, that's William's parents. They leave Cherry Log, telling William they'll be back on the 8th of October. So that's Monday, the weekend. Yeah, we'll be back one day. Long weekend. Now, this is the first time since his release from prison that he's been alone, like had the house to himself. Imagine the whacking he's gonna be doing all over the place.

[B]

Well, at least for the next couple hours.

[A]

Just insane. Yeah, well, just. And then he'll. He's. I feel like he'll have a lot stored up, maybe.

[B]

You don't think there's gonna be a burn that requires him to stop for a minute?

[A]

Oh, maybe, maybe. But he's a. I don't know, he's got that. Those like, criminal horniness. That's a different kind of horniness. It just keeps coming and coming. It never goes away. I don't know, it's weird. So this is what he does immediately. A series of robberies hit Cherry Log Mountain real immediately. Like the minute they left the mountain, all of a sudden there's a bunch of robberies being reported. And normally they don't have a lot of that around here at the time. Medical supplies, a shotgun, ammunition stolen from homes, still neighboring homes.

[B]

Yeah, there's two of the checklists right there.

[A]

Chick's got that going. Medical supplies weren't on there, but hey, we'll add that to the bottom.

[B]

I didn't know I needed it.

[A]

You know what? This will come in handy.

[B]

Look at this. First aid kit.

[A]

Look at that. So later that weekend, Sunday, Oct. 7, 2001, Joanne is seen driving up Cherry Log Mountain toward her cabin, returning from a weekend in Rome with her fiance Larry. Larry, okay. She enters her home. We know she put her purse on the kitchen island. We're positive of that. Okay. The next day, Monday, October 8, 2001, she does not come to a Monday morning appointment she's supposed to be at. Then her fiance Larry calls Mountain Medical because he hadn't heard from her and he's been trying to get ahold of her and they usually talk in the morning. So he's like, where the hell is she? So the office sent an employee to her home to check on her at approximately 10:30am Go see what's up with Joanne. So a co worker and a real estate agent went to check on her. We'll see if she's home and see if she's maybe interested in selling her cabin. She's interested in upgrading. They went to check on her and they found something horrible. They found she's home, but she's very dead in her home. It's not good either. It's a scene, man. It's bad. She has been bound with cable wires, raped, slashed, stabbed a whole bunch of times. This is not a scene you want to walk into and see. This is a scene that like a seasoned homicide detective would go, oh, Jesus Christ, I'm going to think about that one for a while. It's bad. It's real bad.

[B]

Cable wire twist. And there's no getting out of that.

[A]

No, man, this is hard. Couldn't be a nicer person. And they all know that too. So, like, Jesus Christ, this is horrible. The police are called and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation Agent Jeff Branion processed the scene, took evidence including blood transfer patterns from a T shirt that was consistent with a knife being wiped on the fabric. Like whoever stabbed her then wiped the fucking blood off on her, which is just fucking awful. Yeah, not only that her.32 caliber pistol is missing and her 1996 black Ford Explorer is missing as well. Oh. So that's what's interesting. When her friends showed up, they didn't see her car, so they were like, oh, maybe she's not here. And then they found that. So now the investigation, they look far and wide because they're thinking about who does she come in contact with. Fuck everybody in this area. So many people. Thousands of people.

[B]

3,000 in two years.

[A]

Yeah. So anybody could have developed an obsession or been pissed off that she didn't give them the exact care they wanted, or they didn't get the drugs they wanted or whatever.

[B]

Or they felt sicker.

[A]

They felt sicker. It's her fault. You never know what it is. But then after they kind of close that circle a little bit here because they, you know, okay, those people aren't it. That guy's 80, he probably didn't do it. And all these different things, they end up realizing that basically like three cabins away is a registered sex offender who just got out of prison.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, huh, interesting. William Lacroix Jr. Let's take a look at him.

[B]

He's three. He's right there.

[A]

He's three. Like right there. Walking distance. Right there. Real close. Like every time she drives in and out, they see each other. Yeah, yeah. This is. This is a lot. The police had him classified as extremely dangerous, by the way too. So they were like, well, his file looks like dog shit. Looks great for this though. Yeah. Hey, everybody, just gonna tell you about a better way to shop with Thrive Market.

[B]

Thrive Market.com.

[A]

absolutely. Thrive Market's amazing because, number one, you can have your favorite stuff on the auto ship program, which is amazing here. The sales and the savings are great, but it's also being able to filter out the dietary preferences. That is awesome. If you got someone in your house that's gluten free or allergic to nuts or that kind of thing, this all becomes very important. It's so easy to do that. And honestly, we love doing that. Sarah is gluten free, so it's so much easier to find things and especially like a replacement thing for something that you like. Well, what's a version of that that's gluten free? And they'll bring it right up. Thrive Market is awesome. Thrive Market is a membership based grocery service where you can shop from wherever you are, simply just hop on their app. The membership breaks down to just $5 a month, and it gives members access to weekly sales, personalized shopping with filters, auto ship and save. Free gifts and peace of mind knowing that there's no junk in any of the products that they carry. Instead of paying fees on every grocery delivery order, you pay once for the year and benefit from it every time you shop. It really is awesome. They have the no trade offs for yummy good food. That's what they have. Kids want Mac and cheese and sugary snacks and juice boxes. They're gonna eat what they're gonna eat. Thrive Market gives you versions with less sugar, fewer sketchy ingredients and more nutrition. It's excellent. They make it easy. Thousands of healthier swaps from brands like Goodalls, Mac and Cheese, Simply Mills, Poppy and so many more. All vetted before they hit hit the site. It is fantastic. You're paying a small monthly fee to offload the stress and research and decision fatigue of healthy eating. You can try it risk free, easily shop from 90 plus diet and high protein meals, low sugar treats, GLP1 friendly options or gluten free staples. You're gonna love it. I'm telling you. It's so much easier to do all that stuff. It takes all of the stress out of healthier eating. And no hidden fees either. None of these delivery fees, service charges or tips on every order. The membership bundles everything into one simple monthly cost. And the membership pays for itself with their discounts and sales. And it really does. You should shop here. We like it. It's good stuff. I love their tortilla chips. They're amazing by the way. It's my favorite thing they have. Ready to make some healthy swaps and become a member. Join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com Smalltown Murder for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift.

[B]

Now back to the show.

[A]

So they say we need to find him. They go to try to find him and he's not around.

[B]

Can't find him.

[A]

Can't find him. What they do find though is his need to acquire list.

[B]

Oh, he left that behind.

[A]

Left that behind. So they said put out a, you know, everybody look for him, APB and a BOLO and all that shit. He's believed to be driving a 1996 Black Fork Explorer Georgia Wildlife Tag 50 RJ7. And they believe he's headed to Alabama or Oklahoma. That's where they bleacher opposite directions. Well, no, it's west either way, but one is northwest and one is just west. So anyway, that's what they're thinking at this point. And that is October 8th, that that happens.

[B]

Okay. When Houston's Supposed to come home.

[A]

Yes. When they came home to cops coming to their house looking for their stepson because they left for two days, you're like, Jesus, we can't leave at all. So October 11, 2001, he is neither in Alabama nor Oklahoma.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He is in Minnesota by the Canadian border.

[B]

How'd he get that far?

[A]

He fucking got all the way up there with every cop in the entire country looking for this car. And he's driving. Yeah.

[B]

Well, at least has a bulletin in their computer while. And he passed them all.

[A]

Went right past it here. Wow. Gets to the checkpoint between the U.S. and Canadian border and he noticed that Canadian authorities were checking all the cars. Yeah. Because this is. But you have to remember a month after 9, 11.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So security measures were completely different than any other time in history. They were on the roof.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Now, especially in any kind of border or airport or anything like that. It was like, like totally different.

[B]

Anywhere where you're trying to traverse the world, they're looking at every checkpoint that they came.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. So William then turns around and tries to get back into the United States because he crossed over. He's in that no man's land.

[B]

Not suspicious at all.

[A]

No, no, no, that's not suspicious. That's like if there's a DUI checkpoint, you just pop a UI and get out of there. I'm sure you're fine. Sure. You just didn't want to wait in line too long. That's what it was, right?

[B]

Sure you're in a hurry.

[A]

Yeah, just in a hurry.

[B]

You gotta get home before babysitter charges you an extra hour.

[A]

We are just the time is what the problem is. It's nothing to do with the booze. That's just really the time I don't have for this. So at that point, U.S. officials ran a check on the tag and figured out, hey, look at this. Stolen car wanted for murder.

[B]

That stolen car that just made a

[A]

U turn is wanted for murder. So that's not good. No. So they pull him over, they pull him out. Inside the car they find a treasure trove of evidence. Just everything you're looking for. A blood stained knife.

[B]

Uh oh.

[A]

Gotta have that. Didn't think to wash the knife off. Not even just give it a rinse. So there's nothing. Throw it, throw it away or throw it away. Sometime between Georgia and Canada anywhere. You could have tossed it in a fucking great lake on the way in. The Mississippi goddamn river, you name it.

[B]

In Missouri. So many bodies of water you crossed.

[A]

So many bodies of water you've passed caves and dugouts and desert. Mountains.

[B]

Mountains. You've passed mine shafts, you've passed everything.

[A]

Got it. Plastic cable ties. Oh, he's got those. Zip ties. Essentially. Shotgun shells. Boots. He got the boots.

[B]

He got the boots.

[A]

Good. Food, water, ammunition.

[B]

He's got all of it.

[A]

He filled his list out.

[B]

He did.

[A]

And two handwritten notes he wrote. Why do you need to write shit down? Everybody stop doing it. Teenage girls, adult murderers. Everyone stop writing everything down.

[B]

What'd he say?

[A]

Okay, one of them was on a map. Okay, on the map he wrote, please, please, please forgive me, Joanne. This is not good.

[B]

He knows her name.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, he knows her name. She lives three houses away and she's very well known in the area. So, yep, you were an angel. And I killed you. You couldn't have. Here's my knife with her blood on it. Here's a note explaining what I did.

[B]

He really killed you.

[A]

Damn it, I killed you. Now I have to live with that. And I can never go home. I am a vagabond and doomed to hell. Okay, which is probably true. But the rest of it, Jesus Christ. Self serving. So then in a separate note, he planned on putting this in the car because he planned on ditching the car when he got across the border. I think he wrote, please call the police and report this vehicle stolen. Thanks. The thief, the guy that did it. The guy that did it. Just please. So that's what he wrote. He had two different notes, One for a dead woman who was never going to read it or get it. So you didn't need to write that down.

[B]

So fun that he thinks that he's outsmarted anybody and that they don't already know it's stolen.

[A]

No. Please report this stolen. So that's what he's got on him. So they're like, you got a lot of splaining to do, homie. This is a lot. So in the Cook County Jail in Grand Marias, Marias, whatever it is, Maries, Minnesota, he confesses in graphic detail.

[B]

Really?

[A]

He said, we got you dead to rights, man. You wrote, I killed you, literally on a fucking piece of paper.

[B]

You have the car of a dead woman. We have a note of you addressing said dead woman by name, apologizing, claiming responsibility for the dead woman.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, do we mention the bloody knife with her blood all over it?

[B]

Have her knife blood to prove that? To connect you to. What's he gonna say? What does he want?

[A]

He's gotta say, you got me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What else can you say?

[B]

What does he Want in the confession? Is he asking for a deal?

[A]

He just talks. He wants to talk. He describes everything. And here's what happened here, okay? This is what he will tell. He tells the police one story. This is what he'll tell a psychologist later. And this is everything in detail. And he's not trying to make himself look better. He's very honest about what he does, which is disturbing as fuck. So he said, I got out of prison, and then he moved in, he said, with his mother and Sam Houston and Blue Ridge there and on Cherry Log Mountain. And he started commuting by motorcycle to the town of Marietta, where he worked with his father. Really? That's a good influence for him. You really want him around his dad at this point in time? Jesus Christ.

[B]

And he's just got a motorcycle as his mode of transportation.

[A]

Yeah, a motorcycle which is precarious in not only the Georgia heat, but the Georgia winter as well. Right. That's a lot to do there. So he said he would pass Joanne's house every day, and the two would usually wave to each other because they're neighbors. Okay, pass somebody away to your neighbors. If you live in a very rural area, everybody does that. He said in early October 2001, he was convinced that the government was determined to put him back in prison. That's what he said. He goes. As soon as October came, I just. I knew they wanted to put me back in federal prison. That's all they wanted to do. Meanwhile, they're giving him big.

[B]

I told you they're not.

[A]

They could have put him in prison the day he left that fucking office. They could have said, send the marshals to his house. His probation officer, parole officer could have said, send the marshals. He's going back for a year. But they didn't. So they clearly weren't trying to put him away. They're trying to keep him out, and he's so stupid. He fucking kept trying.

[B]

He's the one trying to go back,

[A]

pretty much, he said. But that's when he traveled out into the woods where he had hidden a cache of survival gear on his list. That's where he hid a bunch of stuff in the woods. Yeah. On his way up to check on his cash in the woods, make sure it's still there. He passed Joanne's house and waved to her, but she didn't wave back. Okay. Okay. Again, this is a huge slight to a guy like this.

[B]

Does he say if she saw the wave? He doesn't say.

[A]

Doesn't. She didn't wave back. That's all he knows. Didn't wave back. So later, at his hiding spot in the woods, he heard the sound of car tires on gravel and turned to see Joanne driving toward him in her Explorer, in her Ford. She's exploring. She's using the car to its fullest here.

[B]

Do what it was designed to do.

[A]

That's it. So he said that she stopped and said, huh, huh? Through her half open driver's side window, then turned her vehicle around and drove away. She didn't say hi. She didn't say, what's going. She said, huh, and then turned around and left. Okay, so this freaked him out.

[B]

For some reason, she's onto me.

[A]

Onto me for being in the woods, right? You're allowed to beach. You're allowed to be in the woods, first of all. So, like, I don't know what he thought. She didn't catch him doing anything illegal. She just caught him in the woods. So it freaked him out, though. So he began to focus on her and to fixate on her because he thinks that she has it in for him now. Then he said he was sitting there one night and it hit him why he knew her, he thought in his head, and why that they have some sort of connection. He figured it out. Oh, she's his babysitter. That's Tinkerbell. I found her.

[B]

Joanne is now Tinkerbell.

[A]

Joanne is Tinkerbell. Now, here's the thing. He's a year older than Joanne. Joanne Tinkerbell. Impossible for her to be Tinkerbell. I mean, he doesn't know her age, I'm sure, or whatever. But he says that he was positive that she was Tinkerbell, the babysitter who sexually abused him.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Okay, so he said that he suspected that Tinkerbell had been a witch and that her sexual abuse had placed him under a spell. That's how they do it, right? Yeah. They put. It's not oral, it's. You use your sexually communicated vagina. Yeah. Sexually communicated spells, obviously, that's the thing you can catch. Chlamydia, herpes, hexes, all sorts of things can be caught sexually. And that spell explained. The way he put it, quote, explained all the troubles and frustrations in his life. So everything that's happened to him up to this point is the fault of that babysitter's magic vagina and the way that she hexed him. And now he's found her. There she is. Okay, so you can imagine the machinations in this guy's head. At this point, I'd be out of it, too. He said, he reasoned that Tinker Bell, Joanne, now it's Tinkerbell to him, had placed some kind of spell on him. She could also undo the spell.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

The only person who can undo it is the person that did it. It. He said. So that was his. I mean, obviously, his plan is now to figure that out. Right. So he. And according to this psychiatrist he talked to, quote, he started to develop a plan that he needed to reverse the roles on Tinkerbell, reverse the curse, and do to her what she had done to him. Oh, that's not way different. That is exactly. I was gonna say that is not what you had in mind.

[B]

That is not a piano in the leg. What do we do?

[A]

I don't know what that is.

[B]

That's called revenge, man.

[A]

Yep. So he said he broke into her house to wait for her to get her to reverse the spell. Yeah, that's why he's doing this. Right. He said he broke into the house, went inside to wait for her. He heard a car drive up, and he became nervous. Okay. Got real nervous when the car drove up. So he looked out the window and saw that it wasn't even Joanne. It was some of her neighbors arriving at the cabin next door. So he continued to wait. And his stomach is just churning, he said, because he's just nervous now. And so he had to use the restroom. So he went and took a shit in this lady's house.

[B]

Gave himself diarrhea.

[A]

He gave himself the shits. Cause he's so nervous. Okay. So he goes and he shits. Now, what if she came home at that point, just opened the door and heard a huge fart coming from her bathroom? What kind of plan do you have, bro?

[B]

If ever there's a sign that you're doing the wrong thing, that's the one.

[A]

That's the one.

[B]

Anything that gives you diarrhea, you shouldn't

[A]

do that, or you're about to debut on Broadway or something. You're doing something amazing or you're doing something terrible. One or the other.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Like, if I was about to, like, blast off as, like, an astronaut, I might have to shit beforehand just to make sure, you know? So. So he gets done, I assume, cleans himself up as he was coming out of the bathroom. Timing is remarkable here. He heard another vehicle coming.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Wow. He's still buttoning his pants up. He hears another vehicle coming. So he went into the bedroom and could hear Joanne approaching the cabin. Yeah. As she came in, he saw her, and he had a shotgun here. Her Shotgun, by the way, right? No, this is the shotgun he brought. I apologize. He's got a shotgun and he smashes her in the back of the head with the gun.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Hits her in the head. Now, when he does that, he accidentally discharges the shotgun as well. He shoots a shot off because he's probably got his finger on the trigger when he did it in the jerking motion.

[B]

Terrible trigger discipline.

[A]

Awful, awful. Now, luckily for Joanne, obviously, that's the opposite way of the butt of the gun. Sure. It doesn't shoot her, it shoots into the wall.

[B]

Also good for Joanne. That was just a loud racket. Hopefully that gets some attention.

[A]

Problem is, it's the woods, and people are constantly hunting. And there's a lot of gunshots in the woods. And no one's gonna call the cops for a gunshot.

[B]

On this mountain, everybody talks themselves out of reporting a gunshot.

[A]

Absolutely. Maybe it wasn't a gunshot. Maybe it was a car backfiring. Maybe it's just people in the woods.

[B]

Somebody got themselves a deer.

[A]

Someone's shooting squirrels with a shotgun.

[B]

The pist didn't work.

[A]

Yeah. Who knows? So, yeah, the piss didn't work. They're back. The hunters are back. So he shoots it into the wall. She falls to the floor after getting hit in the head with the shotgun. He told her not to look at him. That was the thing. Hit her in the back of the head before she could see him. And then said, don't look at me. However, he also had the collar of his. He had a combat uniform on. He had the collar of it pulled up over the bottom part of his face and the back of the collar pushed up around the back of his head, over the top of his head. So only his eyes were exposed. Yeah, with his shirt, he did that. Which is a pathetic. Get a mask, you idiot. You know what I mean? What are you doing?

[B]

That's a very menacing pose, though.

[A]

So why not look at then, though,

[B]

if you've already taken all the steps?

[A]

I guess maybe because he's so goddamn tall and just around there, you're gonna get noticed. Right? That's one thing that, like, tall people do not blend in. We don't blend well at all. Like, if people were looking for me, they'd find me. My fucking head is sticking out of everybody.

[B]

Outside of venues, you can blend in. Yeah, outside of venues, people find us. Cause we're together.

[A]

Yep. Look at that. Tall and short. You son of a bitch.

[B]

Look at the tall guy. He's got a little midget with. That's probably them.

[A]

That's probably them, but a midget walking

[B]

down the street, they just walk right past me.

[A]

It's insane, but it's really hard. It's hard if you're, like, just tall, to blend in. Anyway, so he said the conversation was minimal. He just kept telling her several times, you know what I want.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

And she was like, I don't know what you want. Actually, I don't know you. I waved at you. You're the guy who lives in whatever. And she was. He's like, no, you know what I want. And he's like, she's like, I don't. Now, in his mind, what he said, he's talking to Tinkerbell, he thought he said. So he's like, you know, what the fuck you want?

[B]

I want the curse reversed.

[A]

Yeah. Now, meanwhile, there's no way in hell, even if it actually was Tinkerbell, that she would know who the fuck you were. Last time she saw you, you were eight, right? You're six foot five now.

[B]

We never hear from Tinkerbell ever again.

[A]

Tinkerbell never comes back. She is gone.

[B]

But her damage is lasting.

[A]

Oh, her damage is radiating out into this poor woman's cabin. This is crazy. So she said, do you want money? I'll give you. Do you want money? Is that what you're after? Because he said, you know what? I want money. And he said, nope, that's not it. And she's like, oh, that's not good.

[B]

I'm out of guesses.

[A]

I'm out of guesses. He then used the plastic ties that he brought with him to tie her hands together. Okay, this is getting very scary. He then tied her legs together, and then he started. As he started undoing her belt, she asked him, is this what this is like? Is this what you're wanting? This is what, you know what I want is. And he didn't say anything. So he said she cooperated with him as he took her pants off. Or down, I should say, because her legs are tied. He said that she only stated, not on the floor, please. And so he picked her up and put her on the side of the bed. He said he was trying to rape her, but he couldn't get it up enough to rape her. So he asked her where she had some Vaseline in the house.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't know how that's going to make his dick any harder, but no. So she told him where it was, and he put some Vaseline on his dick and on her as well. And then he was able to get more of an Erection and proceed. Here, he said during the act. They were both silence, silent at the time. When he was done, he got finished and then he said, all right, now it's your turn to undo it. Okay, now it's your turn. Undo it. There. I did that. That means I took that back. So now you have to undo it. And she said, I don't know who the fuck you're talking about. Yeah, what are you talking about? And he said, you know what the fuck I'm talking about. Don't act like you don't know. And she's like, I don't know what you're talking. Just tell me and I'll do anything you want. Obviously, look what I just acquiesced to just to try to get you the fuck out of my house so you don't kill me.

[B]

Undo everything.

[A]

Just tell me whatever you need, I'll undo it. And he kept saying, you know what you did. You know what? You need to undo it right now. And she was like, I don't know what you're talking about. So this turned into an argument because she's like, please just tell me. And he's like, you know, you fucking asshole.

[B]

Can I buy a vowel?

[A]

Something? He said, I'm getting pissed off is what he told her. You're starting to piss me off now. He even said she was trying to appease him. She was trying to do anything possible, but. But wasn't complying with what he wanted, which was reverse the goddamn hex. Take it off me. So he said that she said, I don't know what I did that you need me to undo. So then he put a new shotgun shell and his shotgun and threatened her. And she still didn't know what. It wasn't helping. She doesn't know. You can put ten guns to her. She's not gonna know. So then he found a cord from a carbon monoxide monitor and looped it around her neck. And he told her, do it or else. And she said, I don't know what to do. How terrifying is this? This poor woman. This is horrible. At least if you know what somebody wants and if they're going to kill you, you can resign yourself. This is just confusing and horrible and terrifying.

[B]

And you're just screaming to him that you don't know. And he's not.

[A]

He won't tell you.

[B]

He's not understanding.

[A]

No. So he started choking her to the point that she couldn't breathe. She started gasping. She grabbed at his pant legs. He said he then heard her start to urinate in her pants on herself. And he let the cord go, and he told her, that's it. You can do it, or I'll do it. Okay. Again. What are you talking about? At that time, he said she was only making mumbling sounds because she was. Just Got done being choked. So he pulled his knife out of its sheath, grabbed her head by her hair from behind, pulled her head back, and said he, quote, cut her throat as hard as he could.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

She went limp immediately, but he said he could still hear breathing sounds. He said he became frustrated at that point because he choked her and he cut her throat. And he said he started to think, I can't kill this woman. She won't die because she's a witch, probably.

[B]

Oh, because. Yeah, because they don't.

[A]

So he walked out of the bedroom and looked out the window to see if anybody was around, see if that shot. So he was planning to go back into the bedroom and shoot her in the back of the head with both barrels of the shotgun. That was the thing.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

But when he went back into the bedroom, she wasn't making any sounds. She was just dead. Now, he left out in his description stabbing her numerous times in the back and slash. Yeah, yeah, the throat slashing. But, I mean, he went to town on her. Backstabbed. Yeah. So I think. I don't know why he left that part out, but he's. That was. I think, happened before he went out to check and then came out. Doesn't remember it or just decide. I don't know. Just decided not to.

[B]

Just deletes that. All right?

[A]

Just deletes that out of the mix. Now, here's the thing, okay? You would think this is a murder case. This is a state of Georgia murder case. The federal authorities are gonna take over jurisdiction because they're gonna call it a carjacking.

[B]

Oh, because of the theft of the Explorer.

[A]

Yes, and because of the Explorer, transported in interstate commerce using force resulting in death. The case is prosecuted federally under the carjacking statute, making it a capital case.

[B]

Hmm.

[A]

Yeah. This was the Violent Crime Control and Law enforcement act of 1994. Congress expanded the federal death penalty to cover murders committed during carjackings. This was when they were trying to be, like, tough on teenagers and gangs and all that horseshit in the 90s there.

[B]

But being that he did steal the car afterwards, I guess it's in the.

[A]

That's gonna be the.

[B]

But Georgia should be able to prosecute that anyway, shouldn't they?

[A]

Well, the federal authority supersedes the state Authority on a case. So if they want the case, they're getting it. It's one of those. And Georgia, I would assume, just based on the cost of things, would probably go. If you want a murder case, take it. What the fuck do we need it for? We don't have to. Then you house him in your own facilities. Fuck it.

[B]

Also that he's out on what I guess would be parole. Cause he didn't do all the time for federal parole. That's another reason to get him.

[A]

Yep. So this act, basically Congress expanded the federal death penalty to cover murders committed during carjackings. Although Georgia defense lawyers question whether it should cover a situation like this one. One lawyer told the Atlantic Journal Constitution, this is purely a state crime that ought to be prosecuted in state court.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's interesting, another lawyer here, Don Samuel, an Atlanta lawyer who authors books specializing in criminal law, said, I would say that's not what Congress had in mind when it passed the carjacking statute.

[B]

Yeah, I don't think so. I think they mean like at a stoplight.

[A]

Exactly. A carjacking.

[B]

Carjacking.

[A]

This is a murder. And then he stole some shit. We've had how many cases where the murderer then took the person's vehicle?

[B]

The car always goes.

[A]

None of them are federal carjacking cases. The car's always gone. Whether they go burn it or whether anything. So they said the federal death penalty statute supposedly was passed to allow the federal government to prosecute interstate crimes. This is a stretch to even make it a carjacking. Nevermind an interstate carjacking.

[B]

There's a car theft involved, but it was not a jacking.

[A]

Totally. Exactly. He said the carjacking statute makes it a crime when someone with intent to cause death or serious bodily harm takes a motor vehicle from the person or presence of another by force and violence or by intimidation. So their whole case would be his goal was to get the car. And he did whatever he had to to get the car. Not that he wanted to kill her and she happened to have a car. So that's all it is.

[B]

But I mean, he wrote in the letter that the car is the goal.

[A]

He needed a car regardless of why

[B]

he killed the woman. His letter wrote, I'm gonna steal cars and kill people in the interim to get new cars.

[A]

That's what they're use. That's what they're gonna use. They're gonna say that's what he was doing, not the other thing. So I don't know. Usually in a carjacking there's no rape involved. You know what I mean?

[B]

Right?

[A]

So usually they take your car and that's that. So In June of 99, the federal appeals court in Atlanta had issued a ruling that could help the federal prosecutors, though, in a case where a car was stolen from an employee of a Fuddruckers restaurant in Dade County, Florida. The old poor fuck. That's what I just thought. I just thought, you poor bastard.

[B]

Terrible life.

[A]

Smelling like french fries, walking out of fucking Dade county humidity while you're going

[B]

jumping your car to your Dade county apartment.

[A]

Oh, man. Jesus. The humidity will make that stink. Fucking hang on. You too. The 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals allowed the carjacking conviction to stand, even though the employee handed over his keys for the car that was sitting outside in the parking lot. Because that happened inside. A carjacking victim must be sufficiently near to the vehicle for it to be within reach, inspection, or control, and absent threat or intimidation, to be able to maintain control of it. For a car to be within one's reach or control, it must be accessible. So inside a cabin with it in the driveway really doesn't line up with that, to be honest with you.

[B]

But it has to have been commandeered, not stolen. There's a difference between the two.

[A]

Yeah, it's a different. It's weird.

[B]

So you have to bypass the owner or occupant and driver to take the vehicle rather than just hot wiring and taking off with it or putting stealing in.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. The carjacking has to be. The owner is in control or possession of it, and you took it. Now, this is kind of a different thing. Honestly.

[B]

Entirely different.

[A]

Entirely different. So her mom, by the way, this is Joanne's mom, does a really nice thing here. She used a $50,000 life insurance settlement that she got for Joanne and built a 1,000 square foot outdoor classroom in her hometown. Wow. Which is really cool. She said her daughter loved the outdoors. And she said over 3,000 kids have visited it. In Franklin? No, no, in her area where she lives. Franklin. I think it might be Florida by now. She might have moved to Florida by now. Yeah. But she built it in three months. And it's really nice and really interesting. By the way, there's an article that says, like a force of mother Nature that can't be thwarted, this mother couldn't be distracted. She had a vision and a deadline. October 7, 2002, the anniversary of her daughter's death, and could not be deterred. Janie's personal mission was clear. Create some good out of the evil that befell her beloved Joanne. This is something that she wrote on the website for the outdoor classroom. I'm beginning to believe, not hope, that Joanne is with me. Still, it seems that experiences take me to the cliff's edge. But if I don't give up and wait for an angel to carry me across the canyon, I can land in a place more beautiful than the one I left. That angel has got to be Joanne. Okay. Now, the Gilmer District Attorney, by the way, who I mean, like I said, not a lot of people in this county.

[B]

No.

[A]

How fucking old is this guy? He fell in the stairway of the county courthouse in Elijah in March of 2003 before this trial starts, and it left him a quadriplegic. That's horrible. Poor bastard. Roger Queen is his name. You poor bastard.

[B]

Roger just like, snapped his neck, apparently,

[A]

down in the courthouse. Wow. Holy shit. He remains on a ventilator.

[B]

Oh, Jesus.

[A]

But says he wants to participate in the trial and plans to be there. How about pass it off to somebody else?

[B]

Take it easy.

[A]

Wow. That is insane.

[B]

Committed.

[A]

Yeah. And they. The newspaper article also said that he. That the killing has the markings of a classic state death penalty case and alleged vicious slaying during the course of a felony. But it was approved as a federal death penalty case by the Department of Justice. Now in jail, he still is fucking off.

[B]

Still doing it.

[A]

Oh, he's doing crazy shit. People witnessed him. Two Lumpkin county law enforcement officials witnessed William Lacroix escaped from his cell in the Lumpkin County Detention Center. At certain times, Officer Aaron Welch, a Lumpkin county detention officer, testified that Lacroix and other inmates were using a catwalk in the detention center's drop ceiling as a virtual highway between male and female cells. They were using it to go over the walls, to go into the female side and viol. Vice versa.

[B]

They could get behind the walls and do it.

[A]

Yep. Officer Christopher Holman of the Sheriff's Department said that in one incident, two female inmates were found under a bed in William's cell.

[B]

Imagine that. He got two.

[A]

This is what I'm saying. This is fucking ridiculous.

[B]

He's having threesomes in prison.

[A]

This is ridiculous. No, that is. No, you're not. No, I won't allow that.

[B]

Shouldn't even be able to fuck one person if you'd fuck two.

[A]

Well, maybe if they have a dick. Not what? Not. You shouldn't be able to fuck who you want to fuck in prison. That's what it is.

[B]

Not fair.

[A]

That's just not fair. Imagine that, too. They're coming and he's like, hide. You're in a prison cell. Where are you at? Just go under the bed. They won't notice you.

[B]

He got two women beneath a single

[A]

bunk and was like, a single bunk.

[B]

You'll be fine in there.

[A]

Yeah, they must have been thin. Anyway, that's all I can imagine. Tiny gals had to be small. In a separate incident, they inspected his cell and found that he had created a hole in the shower wall that was large enough for a man to sneak through.

[B]

That's a big hole.

[A]

It's a big hole. In the crawl space where they went. He found a note. They found a note written on the wall that says, so. Well, have a great day explaining to the marshals about me. Thanks for the food, smokes and women, Lacroix. And then he said, ps, had a great time here, but sorry, I won't miss you. He loves writing notes, this guy.

[B]

And he left a goodbye note and then he still didn't. He still didn't escape.

[A]

I think he was planning on it pretty damn soon, I would hope. Yeah, so. Yeah, that's not good. So he's gonna be charged with failing to escape too, and other shit.

[B]

LeCroy signed his name to it.

[A]

LeCroy, he signs it? Yeah, bitch, like we didn't know who the fuck did this. So the defense, he's got a defense team and they're gonna try to mount a defense here. They gather extensive records on Lacroix's background. School records, military records, records relating to his earlier criminal convictions, prison records, police reports, everything they can to try to find something to get out of this. They discovered that they delivered all these records to a Dr. Michael Hilton, who's a forensic psychiatrist. That's the guy he told all that shit to earlier. And this is. The attorneys hired this guy in March of 2003 to conduct an evaluation. The attorneys never planned to call Dr. Hilton as a witness at trial. His evaluation was to be a test run, see what he thinks of him. So the defense team could see what a psychiatric evaluation of Lacroix would reveal before making any final strategic judgments. Oh, I want to see what they

[B]

got in case the prosecutor orders this. We'll do a mock one first.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. We'll just see how it goes. Because if we don't want that to be our defense strategy, and every shrink says he's fine, it's not gonna work. So they said the idea behind Dr. Hilton was to see what would happen, what kind of results would get in an evaluation if we just did a strategic. A straight evaluation. We were Going to see what results he came back with and then proceed with the rest of the case. So Dr. Hilton met with him in prison for four and a half hours and prepared a set of reports for the defense counsel. One report related Dr. Hilton's conclusion that William was competent and that he could not present an affirmative defense of not guilty by the reason of insanity. He said, I can't get on the stand and testify to that. So this guy has some actual scruples where he's not just gonna go, what are you paying me? I'll get up there and say anything you want. Another report summarized Dr. Hilton's psychiatric evaluation, reflecting his diagnoses and professional observations. As the defense team considered all of this. The problem is there's a rule called Rule 1212 or 12 2b. 12 2b of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which requires a defendant to notify the government in advance of trial if the defendant plans to introduce expert testimony on mental health issues at either the guilt or penalty phase of the trial.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So if he elects to introduce. The defendant elects to introduce expert evidence bearing on a mental health issue. The defendant must make the results and reports of the defendant's expert available to the government. And the defendant himself may be required to submit to an evaluation by the government expert as well. So this is. You're putting them out there for a lot if you do this. Yeah. So they. All the attorneys agreed that they were very scared of a government evaluation. That's. The lawyer said it, quote, unquote, very scared of a government evaluation. They're gonna say, he's fine, just a huge asshole. Huge gaping asshole is what he is.

[B]

He's a terrible person.

[A]

God. They said the. In short, they said that the defense team made a decision to not have Lacroix evaluated and stuck with that all the way through. Nonetheless, the attorneys and recognize that some information in Dr. Hilton's report would be useful in mitigation because they're going for the death penalty. If he is found guilty, the evidence of childhood sexual abuse might arouse sympathy from a jury and offer a mitigating explanation of the crime. Yeah, the trick was finding a way to introduce the mitigating aspects without also opening the door to a wealth of the aggravating information from their expert's report.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

How do we get on that? How do we balance on that very narrow cherry log? How do we do it?

[B]

One might call it a catwalk.

[A]

A little bit of a catwalk. So they have a different strategy. They plan to introduce Dr. David Lisak as a Teaching expert on the relationship between childhood sexual abuse and criminality in men. Oh, so there's gonna be two strategies. Yeah, they're gonna bring in a social worker who worked with him beforehand, so it's not a current court evaluation to the molestation. Then they're going to bring this guy in just to talk about the subject of getting molested. Okay, so this is interesting. The doctor, a clinical psychologist and associate professor of psychology at the University of Massachusetts in Boston, was known to the attorneys as perhaps the nation's preeminent expert on child sexual abuse of males. That sounds like a miserable thing to become an expert.

[B]

I cannot imagine having to hear that story over and over every day.

[A]

Every fucking day. Too much. Instead of evaluating Lacroix himself, triggering the reciprocity provisions of 12:2, Dr. Lisak was to review a documentary record of Lacroix's life drawn from his state prison records, his pre sentence report from 1995 before he went to federal prison, his counseling records from prison, and Dr. Hilton's report in front of the jury. Dr. Lisak would explain that individuals who experience childhood sexual abuse experience significant psychological problems later in life, and that these problems can be especially acute in men who were abused as children, leading to an elevated risk of later criminal behavior.

[B]

I want to know so much more, dude.

[A]

Wow. So the testimony would provide a backdrop for the jury, against which the defense lawyers hope to introduce evidence of his childhood abuse. So they're trying to Trojan horse this fucking evidence in here. Dr. Gary Ganal, a psychological consultant for the Georgia Department of Corrections, who evaluated Lacroix in prison following a suicide attempt, had been told by Lacroix about physical abuse at the hands of his father and sexual abuse from Tinkerbell.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Another doctor, Dr. Marty Carlson, a clinical psychologist from the Bureau of Prisons, had also seen Lacroix when he was incarcerated and heard him report physical abuse by his father and sexual abuse by Tinkerbell. Finally, the defense retained Jan Vogelsang, a clinical social worker, to conduct wide ranging social and psychological evaluations of Lacroix and his family. Because this isn't like, technically a psych evaluation. It's an evaluation of his life. Vogelsang would say that aspects of William's childhood put him at special risk of criminality as an adult, including a history of mental illness in his family, troubled relationship with his father, and a generally dysfunctional family environment. They said by combining Dr. Lisak's teaching testimony with the factual testimony of Vogelsang and the doctors, the defense team hoped they could replicate the helpful aspects of Dr. Hilton's report, meaning the inference was that his crime was a product of an abusive and dysfunctional childhood. Or as they put it more bluntly, that Mr. Lacroix was damaged goods because of what he suffered in childhood. And that might explain why he would do something so awful. That's the way his lawyer put it, quote, unquote, all fucked up.

[B]

I mean, does his allegation of the Tinkerbell thing, does it lean to grooming, that it was a systematic and over and over event, or was he just. Did he have sex with a more grown woman more than.

[A]

Than once?

[B]

It's still a teenage.

[A]

From what I understand, it's still crazy at 8. That'll damage you no matter what because you don't know what the just happened. But it was. It was a. The kissing game. So that's grooming for God knows how

[B]

long to a single.

[A]

Then the oral sex.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Then the. Then the actual intercourse.

[B]

So it's systematic grooming.

[A]

Yeah, it's definitely systematic grooming. It's not great, but I mean, you can't kill nurses because of that. You're not allowed to do that. That's no good. So the prosecution, their key evidence is semen. Blood pattern, blood spatter. They have his semen, for Christ's sake. Blood spatter patterns. Including an FBI agent's opinion that the stain on his shirt came or on her shirt came from wiping the bloody knife. Which is kind of more than an opinion if you look at it. You can see.

[B]

You can see the imprint of the goddamn knife.

[A]

Yeah. If it's a strip of blood, the size of the blade and knife, it's probably from that.

[B]

And at the very tip of it, it comes to a point like a knife.

[A]

That's the other thing about it. Yeah. So also the cable ties, the murder knife, the shotgun, the crime scene details, his extremely detailed confession. There's a bit of evidence they have here. Yeah. That's why their only chance is they're going for mitigating evidence in the penalty phase. They're like, they know he's gonna get found guilty. They know it.

[B]

There's no way around this.

[A]

Yeah, no. They even have the 1991 evidence noting planning for robberies, to rape, rob and pillage, and a hit list.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Now the defense is going to say, well, that was from 10 years earlier. So you can't say his goals were the same. In other words, to get that car. Sure, yeah, that was his goal 10 years ago, not now.

[B]

Yeah. One thing you can say, however, the roadmap is there and what happened is there. And they kind of lay right on top of each other.

[A]

All right there. Yeah, you can't avoid it. No, you just can't. They said his hit list, his evasion tactics, it's all admitted under federal rule of evidence 404B, which if you watch trials, you'll hear that quite often. 404B. Shit. To show intent, absence of mistake, MO and identity. The court ruled it was not too remote. Accounting for the incarceration and its probative value outweighed prejudice. They said if he wasn't in prison for 10 years, I would say it was too remote because he had 10 years to do all this shit and didn't. So that wasn't his goal. But he did that and then went right to prison. Right. So who knows when he got out, he was just continuing what he did in 91. Then that's the way the judge put it. Which again, bit of a stretch, but fine, it's there. The defense objected to the 1991 evidence and sought a lesser included offense, instruction on simple carjacking without the death result. But the judge refused both, finding the evidence only supported capital murder or acquittal, one of the two. Death penalty crime or walk free.

[B]

And a jury's gotta sit in a room, take all that evidence and go. We either let him go or we kill him.

[A]

Let him go or kill him, or I guess life without you could do also.

[B]

Okay, that's the thing.

[A]

If you find him guilty of the capital murder, it's not just the death penalty, but that's the option. So Lacroix's trial began on February 17, 2000. The defense attorneys seize on the botched burglary defense. That's their new defense. He was just there to burglarize the place she came in. Freaked him out, never planned this. So how could he plan to jack the car too? It wasn't even there. He was shitting, for God's sake. Here they argued that Lacroix just meant to. And this isn't even. This is during the guilt phase, this is during trial. So they're not saying he's innocent. They're saying he merely planned to rob her home like he had done to several other homes and didn't kill anybody.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[A]

But panicked when she caught him in the act and murdered her on impulse. They put it to the jury later on that the whole episode was not a carjacking, but an irrational criminal act in the middle of a burglary. The reason for this, it's Very strategic is the botched burglary defense. They say in this court document is jurisdictional. The case was only in federal court because the government had charged him with carjacking, which in turn required the federal government to prove that Lacroix killed her with the intent of taking her car. So they're trying to cut that off. That's their intent. They say the. Yeah, that's what they're doing. So they say he only later informed or later formed the intent to take her car as a means of escape, but never meant to, because if he didn't kill her, he wouldn't have had to flee. Yeah, that's the way they're looking at it. So what was he gonna do? Take her car, drive it two cabins over and park it in his driveway? I suppose he wouldn't have stole it.

[B]

The robbery's a crazy story too, because he's got a motorcycle.

[A]

Yep, he's got a motorcycle.

[B]

Very difficult to steal things on a fucking motorcycle.

[A]

True, but he was stealing handheld things that he could walk two houses over.

[B]

Okay, so he could just walk at home. I guess.

[A]

He came with. He came with zip ties and a shotgun. Yeah.

[B]

That doesn't scream taking a tv. Yeah.

[A]

Nope, that screams if someone comes. They're going to get some shit here. So they said that then the federal jurisdictional hook would be absent and Lacroix would evade a federal conviction. That's what they're going for. The jurisdictional argument was unsuccessful, though. They're not into it, none of these people. So the verdict comes in, unsurprisingly. And actually it is kind of surprising, because if you look at it from a legal standard, carjacking's a stretch. It really is.

[B]

It sure in the fuck is.

[A]

It is. And nobody wants to kick this guy in the dick more than us. This is not to defend anybody. Joanne was a wonderful person that did not deserve any of this. Nothing. Not even a fucking drop of this. She wasn't involved with this guy. She didn't. There's no, like. Well, I mean, some people, you're like, well, I mean, they were in a relationship and that person at least had the responsibility of being around a person like that. Not that that's a good excuse for murder or anything like that, but know you. But she waved at the guy a couple of times. Like, this is asinine.

[B]

And there's also no excuse for utilizing childhood abuse to further injure people and cause mayhem and harm, especially to rape them. Right.

[A]

You should know better.

[B]

It's the Aileen Wuornos Defense too. Of like. I'm sure she was raped. I'm sure she's been tortured.

[A]

In a way. She was shitload. That's why she ended up where she was.

[B]

Right. But you don't get to kill people in the.

[A]

Don't get to.

[B]

You can't.

[A]

No, it's one of those things where with her you go. Well, it's understandable how she might get to there, but we can't have you on the streets like this. Sorry. I mean, you're going.

[B]

Gacy, by all reports, was horribly treated by his father.

[A]

Oh, yeah? Yeah. Terribly.

[B]

You don't get to rape and murder little boys and bury them under your house.

[A]

Not allowed to do it. Just not allowed to do it.

[B]

You can't do it.

[A]

Just not.

[B]

Isn't it crazy?

[A]

Such a weird.

[B]

I know It's a wild stance to take this day.

[A]

Don't rape and kill just because it's weird. Right?

[B]

I mean, I get it. The world is torturous. But don't be still.

[A]

Not allowed to kill anybody. Just not so. Wow. Now they find him guilty on all counts. Yeah, obviously. Everything okay. And it's hard. Federal trials have like a 96% conviction rate or 98 federal. The whole system's set up against you in the federal trial world.

[B]

It is interesting how deep their pockets are to get really great attorneys.

[A]

That's the thing, too. There's unlimited funds.

[B]

It doesn't stop.

[A]

No, I mean, if he went to the state level, that's Gilmer County. How much money you think a county that has 31,000 people in it has?

[B]

And how good do you think the state's attorney in that town he is?

[A]

If he was good, he gets off the ventilator. I'll let you know. I'm not positive. That's what I'm saying. It's kind of hard.

[B]

His body is real weak.

[A]

Sorry. Yeah. I don't know what's going on with his mind, but he certainly can't navigate steps. That's a fact.

[B]

But if he was worth his fucking muster, he'd be down in Atlanta, probably.

[A]

Think about what the appeals costs of a death penalty case would be for a county like that.

[B]

If he could take the brunt of three, four steps, he'd be.

[A]

He'd be down there, the four guys. He'd be in a bigger county. This poor. We're sorry.

[B]

Poor fucking guy. He did nothing wrong except bounce off of your stick.

[A]

No, this poor guy fucking moves by going and we're making fun of him. I feel terrible now. That's awful. Poor bastard.

[B]

He moves the chair like I drink a soda.

[A]

Yeah. Fuck, man, I kind of hope he's dead. Just as much as I feel bad,

[B]

I feel real bad making fun of.

[A]

I feel like a dick now. But I mean, we're. You gotta understand, we're tiptoeing through a minefield of child rape and other rape and murders and nice women getting their throats cut for no fucking reason. We gotta look for something here. It's hard.

[B]

At least there's a brittle prosecutor we can destroy.

[A]

That's. Fuck. Yeah. He's not worth a shit. Let's talk about him. Wow. So they're all waiting for the. They're waiting for the sentencing to come back. Casey, the older brother there, just gonna ask about him. Casey. He said that he was trying to rationalize and trying to prepare himself to help his mother. He said that William took an angel from the mountains. This is the mom, Janie. She says Joanne always wanted to help the underserved, so she said she did. This is when they're talking about just the whole thing and what she's about. During a tense moment earlier in the trial, Casey, the brother left the courtroom to find peace in the North Georgia mountains. Oh, boy. He went off. He's a hydrologist with the U.S. army Corps of Engineers.

[B]

What is. He builds hydraulics and shit.

[A]

I guess that seems like a smart guy. You'd have to be for that. Which, I mean, she's super smart, so why wouldn't he be? Or is he.

[B]

Does he make water?

[A]

I don't know if he makes equipment that makes water or helps with equipment, whatever. But the Army Corps of Engineers get shit done. They're going in to do something, it gets done, period.

[B]

They'll make water where there's no fucking water.

[A]

Yeah. They'll make a bridge across an ocean. These people, they're insane. So he rode. I guess he works in Tennessee. He rode a bicycle from Helen to the top of Brasstown Bald, which is Georgia's highest point. The time alone was to reflect on his sister here. He said as children, they were always together, playing. Playing soccer, having common friends. They're only a year apart. And he said, I want to leave the world a better place. He said for almost a month, his mother had joined him, waiting to see about the death penalty. And he said that, quote, he has not shown remorse. He's hoping that the jurors would put him to death. He just has shown no remorse. He doesn't care. Sentencing comes around. Okay, the government's case in chief here is victim impact. Statements from her family and friends, testimony regarding his convictions in the early 90s, and testimony regarding his conduct while incarcerated.

[B]

Yeah, he's planned to escape. He's fucking people in prison. He's having a great time.

[A]

Since the time he's 17, he's been a piece of shit. And they're gonna emphasize that he tried to escape because that's part of the death penalty is future dangerousness. If you have him in a supermax prison and say, well, he's just gonna be in there, you can't say he's future danger. But if you say he's an escape artist now, he's a future danger.

[B]

He wrote a love letter and a

[A]

goodbye note to the jailers, right? Yeah. One of the guards or COs, whatever, testified about the catwalk and the female prisoners and all that, which must have been fun for the jury to hear about. That would have been, hey, this is entertaining. They found the hole in the shower. They told him about the note, all that. The defense strategy was not to call additional mental health experts, just Dr. David Lasseter as the teaching witness, and to avoid the battle of the experts and prevent governmental rebuttal from this, basically. So they didn't. They do all of this. They present other mental health evidence. They seek clarification from the judge about what questions could be put to his former psychiatrist without triggering that rule. Basically. How far can we go here?

[B]

Can judges give legal counsel? I guess they have to.

[A]

It's not legal counsel. That's more of. Yeah, that's more of how do we

[B]

keep this from being a mistrial and how do we keep this from being retried and thrown out on appeal?

[A]

That's it. And that's the thing, too. The judge doesn't want that either.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You got to keep it between the

[B]

lines for both sides.

[A]

Yeah. And that's where the jury leave the room and we have an hour where we all argue about it. This is the type of shit they do. Basically. The judge told them that the witnesses were permitted to testify about. About fact matters related to them in meetings with Lacroix, but could not testify about psychological testing results, diagnoses or opinions without triggering the rule and the rebuttal testimony. So they called Dr. Gary Gannell, who said that he talks about the suicide attempt in state prison. The doctor said about the troubled childhood, the federal prison molested by the Tinkerbell. The social worker testified at length about her interviews with Lacroix family and friends, where she compiled as part of what she called a biopsychosocial assessment. Okay, Jesus. And testified about family growing up without limits and boundaries. Gambling the areas of money ready, availability of weapons, poorly supervised children around, suicidal family members, cousins continuing to have sex with each other, engaging in sexual behaviors that were sometimes almost right in front of their parents.

[B]

It gradually escalates.

[A]

Yeah. The male members being. If it weren't for sex, women would have a bounty on their heads. Talking about his dad having a gun to his mom's head and taking the gun and all that kind of thing.

[B]

It was all very relatable up until the cousin fucking. And then everything after that gets so much worse.

[A]

That's totally different thing. Once we get into just rampant cousin fucking all over the county. It's open in the open now. On cross examination, the social worker said her report covered William's background up to 1991 and did not include the time of Joanne's murder. She also testified that Lacroix did well in school, that no member of Lacroix immediate family remembered a female babysitter named Tinkerbell or knew that Lacroix had been molested. But after his release from federal prison in 2001, Lacroix's mother and father had opened up their homes to try to, you know, whatever it happened, because he told people back then, back before, he didn't come out with this after the murder. This was something he was telling psychologists.

[B]

Did he fucking imagine it?

[A]

I don't think so, because he was telling psychologists this from the beginning. Now, he might have come up with that when he was 17 as a story, but it's not likely. Probably sounds like they were poorly supervised.

[B]

Did she have a Tinkerbell nickname that only he and her knew? You know what I mean?

[A]

Maybe, or just that's what the kids called her. I'm not sure. And we'll talk about Chad in this. Chad's role is going to be diminished greatly as we'll talk about. So after the government rested, they called a variety of mitigation witnesses to rebut the suggestion that he had been a threat to others in prison or that he had attempted to escape. Some of the witnesses had been incarcerated with him and testified that he had been pleasant and peaceful. A retired Bureau of Prisons official testified as an expert on the security of federal prisons and said that a person convicted of his crimes would be held in a maximum security facility which escape would be not happening. Very difficult. Yeah, very difficult. The jury was instructed on the future dangerousness which is conditioned on finding a risk of escape beyond a reasonable doubt, and weighed the aggravating circumstances against the mitigator. Lacroix also called a series of friends and family to testify about his good character. Jesus. His mother, Donna took the stand, but she got so emotional she was unable to go forward. She just said that she just asked the jury for mercy. That's all she could do.

[B]

She feels guilty.

[A]

I'm sure she does. Who wouldn't? I'd feel terrible. So here's his lawyer's closing argument. Okay? Says quote. And I think again, I think if you look at his history, you'll see what the family history, what Jan Fogel song or Jan, I guess, because it's a woman. Jan Fogle song. And what Dr. Carlson, I think more importantly shows you is that you have someone who has a basic moral fiber. His entire childhood through that divorce, he was a good kid. He was doing well in school. He sought out rotc. It's in the writings. He, he seeks out ROTC because it gives him something that he's missing. Those boundaries that there was a lack of. He seeks it out on his own. He knows that ROTC is healthy for him. It has discipline, builds his self esteem and the self esteem that is in the pits. And you know that he has virtually no self esteem. And what does he attribute that to the babysitter? To the sexual abuse he suffered as a child. And the government may. Mr. Berby made a big deal yesterday of one of the witnesses about how he never described child molestation to anybody. He didn't tell anybody. His family didn't know about it. Come on, this is 2004. You know, we all watch TV if we haven't read books about it. Why do we have all these priests that are now being accused of sexual abuse for things they did 20 years ago? Because children don't talk about it. True. For whatever reasons, whatever happens. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why would he be talking about sexual abuse by a teenager while he's in therapy with Dr. Carlson? He's not in therapy to get out of jail. He's not in therapy to cut his sentence short. He has no benefit to gain from the therapy or the drug abuse program that he was involved in. And El Reno accept self improvement or to relieve himself, learn how to deal with his anger and get beyond his anger so that his life will be better emotionally. There's no motive to lie about the baby's sake. And he's talking about the babysitter in 92 and he's talking about the babysitter in 99. But it's a Significant event because it robbed him of his self esteem. That's the impact it had on him. We all know from what is written, what he's written. Okay. Now the jury finds some mitigating and some aggravators, okay, they find that all of the eligibility factors and all of the statutory and non statutory. Statutory aggravating factors exist. He intentionally killed her, intentionally inflicted serious bodily harm that resulted in death. The statutory aggravators were that he committed the murder in an especially heinous, cruel and depraved manner and that he committed the crime after substantial planning and premeditation, which I don't know if that's true, but substantial. You can take substantial out a lot. A lot.

[B]

Convincing amount.

[A]

I don't see that happening. But there was more than a day, because I think it started from that woods, when he saw her in the woods.

[B]

That was the day before.

[A]

That was like a couple days before it was that week. The non statutory aggravating factors were that Lacroix would be a future danger to the lives and safety of others. That he caused injury, harm and the loss to the victim's family. Now, by statute, they only needed to find one aggravator to impose the death penalty. Now, the mitigators, his conduct was appropriate during his 10 years in prison. Besides the fact that he tried to escape and kill himself, sure. He was subjected to emotional and physical abuse as a child, grew up in an unstable and violent environment, had been exposed to harsh and difficult prison life. He was a kind and loving grandson, son and brother and friend. He shown himself to be a person capable of kindness, friendship and generosity. That he was deeply tormented after his fiance got an abortion. I don't know when that happened, but somewhere in there that in prison he had helped other inmates and participated in counseling and that he would like to do well in the prison environment and that executing him would cause his family grief. And that he spent the first 18 years of his life in an abusive household and another 10 in prison.

[B]

Is that mitigating?

[A]

Well, it's mitigating factors. Now, two jurors found that Lacroix expressed remorse and six. So half the jury believed he was molested as a child, six didn't. So they deliberate for a full day and they come back with, you, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, yeah. They're giving him the death penalty. They're deathing him up here.

[B]

I guess. Life.

[A]

I heard you went life. Death penalty.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. So Joanne's mother, Janie said that I had no idea who I was or what I believed anymore. I set out on a journey of self discovery. I'm so glad that Joanne mattered to this world and that this man won't be hurting anybody else. So 2006, the appeals start. As you know, this is their appeal. Fucking shit here. So it's for the sufficiency of evidence for carjacking. Admission of 1991 BAD act evidence, jury instructions. All of these appeals are rejected. Really? And the United States Supreme Court denies to look at it.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Absolutely. So there's more appeals here. He tries to use several complaints here. One that the court ruled that he and other plaintiffs. There was a court case here that happened and the government's plan to use pentobarbital without FDA approval, proper labeling or prescriptions was illegal under the Food and Drug and Cosmetic act in the use

[B]

of the death penalty.

[A]

And I completely agree with this, by the way. You can't just go get something. They literally will not tell you where the drugs come from.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No.

[B]

We need to know every bit of information from start to finish and the explanation of it.

[A]

I need to. When it was made, who put it in a bottle, everything. Because that's. We need a chain of custody. Whereas they won't tell you who will make it because the companies that make it don't want to be labeled shit hammered in the public when they actually say they're making it. So basically there is no. They could literally go out on the street and go, hey man, you got that bottle and get it. And nobody would know any better. That's crazy. That's the law.

[B]

As grabbing a dude on the street that is down with murder and putting them in as the firing squad guy.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

You have to.

[A]

Yeah. How about you?

[B]

This is great.

[A]

Can't do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's pretty weird. So they said that because he was sentenced in Georgia, the protocol clashed with Georgia law that demands two physicians be present to officially pronounce death. The federal protocol doesn't guarantee that. So he's going on all these different factors. 2008, he petitions the district court to vacate his death sentence. The claim is two elements here. Now he's saying his counsel's performance was deficient.

[B]

They were so bad.

[A]

Which is going to be tough because that's a strategic decision they made to try to circumvent the federal carjacking thing. So you can't really get off on that. That's not bad lawyering. It's a strategic decision which. That doesn't count for an effective assistance.

[B]

And you're on Board with every strategy decision they make.

[A]

That's the other thing. And the judge asks you a million times, are you okay with this? Do you want them to do this? They always ask you a thousand times. Plus, the defense must show that the deficient performance prejudiced the defense. They say, no, it didn't. Okay. 2008, his brother Chad. Remember Chad? He said they went on different routes. Chad is a Georgia state trooper. Whoa. So you can't get more one or the other, because that's what happens aboveboard and below board.

[B]

There they are.

[A]

He was a trooper first class, badge number 744. He worked the crime suppression unit out of Atlanta, Joined the Force in 2008. He has a wife named Keisha and two sons. Wow. So he built a life for himself, this guy. December 27, 2010, at 11:00pm Chad's on duty. No, There's a guy named Gregory Favors, a habitual offender with 19 previous arrests who actually should have been in jail that very day. Here's his 19 arrests. They date back to when he was 17. Here we go. Arrested for drug violation in 1998, when he was 17. Sentenced to five years probation. Another drug violation for an incident that occurred just one month later. According to court documents, he's sentenced to five years probation again to run concurrent with the previous order. So. So no change. Arrested in 2000 on charges of carrying a pistol without a license, but uses an alias, Derek Allen, and is sentenced to state court in state court to 12 months probation because they didn't know who he was. He has aliases all over the place. He was charged seven years later with drug trafficking and possession of marijuana, but the case was dead. Docketed reports. Records indicate that he was to be re indicted, but we don't know if it ever happened. October 6, 2000, 2007. He's said to be in possession of cocaine, possession of a firearm during the committing of a felony, and possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.

[B]

That's a bad guy.

[A]

He's sentenced to five years probation.

[B]

What?

[A]

January 14th of this very year. What is this? 2008. Where is this? Yeah. A criminal warrant states that he was charged with possession of cocaine, marijuana, and a firearm during the commission of a felony and used the name Derek Allen again and a Social Security number belonging to another person.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

In an attempt to conceal his true identity. This leads to a plea deal where he pleaded guilty to forgery in the first degree and is sentenced to. I'm gonna give you a guess, John.

[B]

Some probation. James.

[A]

Five years probation that's right. That was followed by really build my

[B]

case to put this guy in prison, you think?

[A]

A little bit.

[B]

They're trying to build it.

[A]

That was followed by two more arrests in Atlanta. June 25th, he was sentenced to 30 years in prison.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But is only ordered to spend 60 days of that in jail, the rest on probation.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

30 years probation. Now, this day that we just talked about. Favors was free on bond for felony charges of criminal attempt to enter an auto, possession of tools for the commission of a crime, cocaine possession, and two counts of obstructing a police officer. Okay. He failed to appear in court that morning.

[B]

That morning.

[A]

That morning. He had used other aliases over the years, which may be the reason why they couldn't identify all of his crimes and get it all connected. Okay. So Chad tries to pull Greg over for a broken tail light or headlight as seen in five different times. Five different and ten different.

[B]

An illumination marker on a vehicle.

[A]

Something on the car. It's a Mazda 6. Okay. So Lacroix tries to pull him over. Favor speeds off from Bolton road near the I285. Lacroix chases him for eight miles. Wow. Until he crashes into a mailbox.

[B]

Who does?

[A]

Favors does. Crashes into a mailbox. His car on an embankment with the driver's side door wedged into a brick mailbox. So he can't get out.

[B]

He's fucked.

[A]

So the patrol car's dash cam shows. Shows his brother Chad here approaching the Mazda, and he's shot in the neck. As he approaches the Mazda, the guy shoots him from the car. Shoots him in the neck. Fatally. Fatal shot. Kills him. Wow. Two little kids pulling a guy over for a broken tail light. Just because this scumbag doesn't want to go to jail. He died en route to Grady Memorial Hospital at 38. And whoa, it gets better. After he shot and killed this guy, Favors got his way out of the car and then jumped in his car and drove off in the cop car. He took the cop car.

[B]

Holy shit. Did they put him in jail for this one? I can't believe I have to ask.

[A]

It's five years probation. Probation. And then the police spotted the car abandoned and caught him after a foot chase.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

He is sentenced to life without parole. Idiot. By the way. Yeah. He had dried blood on his hands. And they saw him throw a gun on top of an apartment building.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

While he ran. Now, this is a lot. So. Yeah. So Chad's wife said, we're happy to know Mr. Favors will be behind bars until his Dying day. We're also sad that this day happened because a man decided to kill Chad. 2014. Now off of Chad, 2014. Williams attorneys argue for sympathy for the Lacroix family because his brother Chad, a freestanding Georgia state trooper, was murdered. Please don't put the family through any more suffering. They've already lost. They have no more sons left. He's all they have left.

[B]

It's a wild swing in the dark, but all right.

[A]

Hey, it's worth a shot, right? July 2019, the resumption of federal executions. After a 17 year moratorium, Lacroix receives an execution date. He then tries to go to the president for clemency. Oh. Saying that the pain and sorrow felt by the Lacroix family at potentially losing two sons is unimaginable. Right. It's denied. Oh, so then there's more legal wranglings. His execution scheduled for July 31, 2020. His legal team mounted last ditch challenges, including arguments over federal execution protocols, compliance with federal death penalty act, and the Food, Drug and cosmetic act, as well as COVID 19 related concerns. He's throwing anything at the wall.

[B]

I don't want the doctor to get

[A]

sick for killing me. He could get sick. Then what? What if I get sick? Then what? So they noticed that they set his execution date for September 22, 2020, more than three weeks later. Then they moved to postpone it again. It doesn't work. They try to get a stay, but it's not really a stay. They want a delay of 20 days. So they have noticed. So people, it's a big mess.

[B]

I'm on the edge of my seat, James.

[A]

September 26th. Supreme Court denies everything.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

September 22nd, 2020, is execution day. He has a spiritual advisor, a sister Batista, who said. They asked, what's he like? And she said, he said, you know, once we are not, and then we are, and then we're not. He was reflective. He didn't seem agitated.

[B]

He said the dumbest thing ever.

[A]

Yep. Last meal time.

[B]

Oh, boy. How much peaches did he eat?

[A]

Not a one.

[B]

Probably all peached out by now.

[A]

He requests Kentucky Fried Chicken.

[B]

They do it so much.

[A]

That's what he wants. And he is denied Kentucky Fried Chicken because they tell him this is some really fuck you shit. The bones are a security risk.

[B]

I'll give him tendies.

[A]

Dude, what the fuck? He can snap a leg in half and take himself out with it, I guess. What are we talking about here?

[B]

Give him the tendies then and move along. Just give the fucking last meal. Yeah, Popcorn Yeah, they got it.

[A]

He settled for Pizza Hut, which is miserable. That's a miserable ass meal.

[B]

I would have insisted on the fucking tendies.

[A]

Tendies. The only thing good about the Pizza Hut is after you eat Pizza Hut, you just need to sleep. It's so, like, heavy and greasy that you just.

[B]

You just want to die.

[A]

Go ahead and put me down. Go ahead and put me down. No, do it right now. I don't even want to go out there. Just stick with me.

[B]

Every time he's about to do a bad thing, he loves to have diarrhea

[A]

right before all the time. He really wants it bad. There was another guy who got denied KFC for a similar reason. One of it was that he wanted to share it with the other death row inmates, which they wouldn't let him do. So they have all the. If we had more time, we'd go through all the execution details of how they prepare for it. Because I find that shit really interesting. And I don't know I'm paying for it. It's our fucking tax office. I'd like to know what they're doing.

[B]

I do think it's fascinating when somebody that's put to death chooses a fucking giant corporate chain to almost advertise for them. You know what I mean?

[A]

It's crazy. So anyway, we'll do a bonus episode on procedures and how they do it. Exactly, because that'll be interesting. Now, visitation. He only approved visitors. Member of the immediate family, all that stuff. Execution prison official leaned over, removed his mask because he had to wear a mask because it was Covid times. Asked him if he had any last words. And he said, sister Batista is about to receive in the postal service my last statement. That's what he said. You got to say it now. Yep. He kept his eyes fixed firmly on the ceiling and didn't turn to look at the witnesses. The spiritual advisor here stood nearby. Sister Batista with her head bowed, reading from a prayer book throughout the process. The witnesses are Tom, who is Joanne's dad, and Joanne's fiance. Remember him? Larry. Larry. Him too. And media pool reporters. Mom doesn't make it.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

Those are the witnesses. And media reporters. Those are the witnesses for her. So the lethal injection of penobarbital was administered from an adjacent room. They watched. His eyes remained open. His eyelids grew heavy, began to close. His midsection heaved uncontrollably for approximately one to two minutes. Accounts described visible jerking, contracting or intense up and down movements with his mouth quivering at times. After several more minutes, color Drained from his limbs. His face turned ashen. His lips took on a bluish tint. And they checked his pulse and he was dead.

[B]

That's fighting it, right? That's not a botch. That's him trying to win.

[A]

These drugs aren't. No, these drugs aren't. As the first thing they put. Because there's three states. The first thing they put in you is a parallel. You're paralyzed.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So he was. He can't do anything voluntarily after that, huh? This is his body moving. Because they're putting. Horrible. Probably fucking makeshift fucking back alley poisons.

[B]

And maybe expire.

[A]

We don't know. We know nothing about it, so it's fucking ridiculous. Now, the execution team described him as just falling into a deep, comfortable sleep.

[B]

Is that how you describe it?

[A]

The media described it very differently. Yeah, that's very different.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

His final letter came three days later. Sister Batista read it out loud. Three days. Goddamn postal service. They're better with executions than they are with delivering mail.

[B]

He mailed it from the jail to the jail and it took three days.

[A]

Three days. That's wild, man. Federal little stepping up. Yeah. He said without carefully considering the consequences of our actions. We did things that we were unable to take back. Who's we? Yeah.

[B]

What's this?

[A]

We harmed another human being, ourselves, and so many who loved us and who love that other human being too. Then. The letter quoted Shakespeare at one point. I think that's part of it there. Without carefully considering the consequences. It was written in pencil and small handwriting and filling the front and back of a page. So there's a lot more to the letter than that then. Tom, Joanne's father here, her dad, said today justice was finally served. William Lacroix died a peaceful death in stark contrast to the horror he imposed on my daughter Joanne. He was allowed to live 19 years longer than Joanne. With US taxpayers paying for his food, shelter and medical care, I'm unaware that he ever showed any remorse for his evil actions, his life of crime, or the horrific burden he caused Joanne's loved ones. So they got their final say here. Now, very quickly, before we end, to be found like insane in Georgia is impossible.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. Do you remember the Chloe Driver case that we talked about on a bonus episode where she killed her baby and tried to kill herself because she. She was literally insane, had hallucinations.

[B]

I don't remember.

[A]

She's delusional. She was insane, an insane person. She stuck a knife right in her throat, trying to kill herself, too. After she killed her baby, she thought that all this shit was going on.

[B]

She was in court with the patch on her neck.

[A]

Yes. And that whole case, they basically made it so all the prosecution would ask is, at any point did she say she was afraid of her baby? And they'd say, well, no, that's it. You have to be afraid of the person. An irrational fear that that person's gonna kill you. So if she didn't think the baby was gonna kill her, then there's no such thing as crazy. They've taken crazy and put it in a lane that fucking narrow. So it's. Watching that case, I was so fucking angry because that's ridiculous. Well, there's also the fuck this guy, because he's a rapist and a scumbag.

[B]

But still, there's also the comparison between crimes in different states is kind of annoying too, because then when they put somebody to death somewhere, or if they don't put somebody to death that's done horrible, horrible things, then you're basically, nobody's ever being put to death in that state ever again. Because the comparison or juxtaposition of the two.

[A]

Yeah, well, what about that guy?

[B]

And that's what they do later on. Well, that guy didn't get death, so this guy can't get death either way.

[A]

Well, yeah, that's a comparison. But still, if the aggravators and the mitigators are enough. But it's. It's such a complicated thing that costs so much money and it's really kind of pointless, but just get some times. Yeah, sometimes you get a guy like this and you go, good, fuck that guy. But a lot of times it's like, it's not worth it for that one guy, you know what I mean? Or for the few guys compared to the bunch of people who it's like, I don't know about that. That's costing money. That's 40 years worth millions of dollars. What are we doing? So either way, this guy's dead and fuck him. So if you like the show, pretty bad guy. If you like the show, get on whatever app you listen on and give us five stars. It helps a ton. Can't tell you why, but it does. So do that. Head over to shut upandgivememurder.com tickets for live shows are available. Our next show for small town murder that isn't sold out because we got a couple of sold out ones coming up first, but May 2nd in Denver and then we have Buffalo sold out. May 30th in Royal Oak. September 18th in Milwaukee, September 19th in Minneapolis. Then we have Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown, Boston. So get your asses in there. Come see us. Shut upandgivemerder.com follow on social media. We are Small Town Murder on Instagram. Smalltown Pot on Facebook. Do that. Certainly. Get yourself Patreon.

[B]

May as well. Yeah, that's where the good stuff is.

[A]

Oh, baby. Patreon.com CrimeInSports Just like the name of our other podcasts that you should definitely listen to. You don't have to like sports. You have to like us. Making fun of assholes, especially cocky assholes who have millions of dollars and think they're above the law. It's a lot of fun. So check that out. And your stupid opinions as well. Listen to that. But patreon.com crimeinsports is where you get all the bonus material. All you have to be is $5 a month or above and you get everything. We put out everything, all the back bonus material. Hundreds of episodes you've never heard before. Immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week. One Crime and Sports. One Small Town mercy. This week for crime and Sports, we're gonna talk about a boxer who's also a biker and possibly a murderer. We'll talk about him. That'll be fun. And then, Small Town Murder. The phenomenon of alpine divorces.

[B]

It's wild, fascinating, mind blowing.

[A]

This is the ultimate ghosting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This isn't not talking. This is you turn around and you're literally a ghost. Where'd he go? So we'll talk about that. Patreon.com CrimeInSports is where you get all of that and more. Plus, you get, in addition to that, everything we put out, crime and sports. Your stupid opinion. Small town murder, all ad free with your Patreon as well. And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people in the world who would never ever babysit our kids or molest them or fucking kill nurses or anything like that. Because they're nice people. Jimmy, hit me with them right goddamn now.

[B]

This week's executive producer, Gary Howard in Dunbar, West Virginia.

[A]

Oh, shit. Gary.

[B]

Antonio Macias. Happy birthday, Antonio. Nice of you. Thank you. And Amanda Rebelo. Hey, check your Patreon and make sure you meant to do that. I'm not going to get too specific, but you're an angel if you did. And thank you so much either way.

[A]

You're an angel if you thought of us.

[B]

Other producers this week are. Matt Stewder. Thank you so much, Matt. He Felt that Patreon was too cheap, so he sent a little bit extra money over. An angel. Angel.

[A]

Matt.

[B]

An angle and an angle. Peyton Meadows, Happy hour checking in. Laredo, Texas. Ryan Bender Janice Hill Liliana Ashian as Shein Ashian thank you, Liliana. Oh, no. Maybe it was happy birthday, Liliana. Maybe not happy birthday. I don't know. I think it is though.

[A]

I think that's from maybe if it's not your birthday, Liliana, you don't take that. You give it to somebody else, goddamn it. Throw it right back. Don't take someone else's happy birthday away.

[B]

Return the favor. Abby Jackson Tom. Tom the meth maker. Meth smoker. Vicna Shinsniski.

[A]

I like it when people are honest about who they are.

[B]

He does what he does. Shauna Matthews Adele Durham Connor Peterson Latrice Smith. Better than latrine. You think latrine's bad? He used to be shithouse.

[A]

Used to be shithouse.

[B]

Kem Salker C. Waggles Miles Wright Juan de la Norte. I don't know if you know James, but that is Juan of the North.

[A]

Of the north. Of the North.

[B]

Janet L. Brent with no last name. Chris Sundberg, Jeff Turner, Rachel Kerr, Missy Minnerath, Dustin Sepulveda, Andrea Davis. Or maybe Andrea Jennifer Ann Fowler. Bruce with no last name. Becky with no last name. Mike Aukismal James. That's definitely a person's name. And they're not trying to make me tell a terrible fact about me?

[A]

No, no, no. That's on the birth certificate. We know that.

[B]

Kath GS, Dylan Oliver, Rebecca Herring, Mike Poole, Michael Keating, Kading. Perhaps Grace Schoonmaker, Kelse Egginspiller, Amanda Dunham Smith. Dunham perhaps Dunham Hillary with no last name. Sarah with no last name. Ryan James Bailey Kelly Eric with an A. Get the fuck out of here. Leo Rapacki, Eric Lorraine763 Joseph Jamoka Melissa Josevius Jesse Vicious J E C E. Just say hey Se Vicious Jesavicus Jas Ryan, Jason, Catherine. I've done my part.

[A]

Vincent with no I said he'll fuck up your last name. I say it, he's going to mispronounce your name. So anything above that? You're going above and beyond the call of duty.

[B]

Going so hard I'm swinging any Col

[A]

is what we promised.

[B]

Colton Somto, Ella Jennifer Bins, Jennifer Lee, Lena with no last name Charlie Herman, Jason Rogers, Heather with no last name Christine Phantom Creep Bridget Parker, Steve Richards, Marie and Mike Angie H. Stephanie Stefania Garzon P Crime Whatever that is penis crime. Jared Warren. Patricia Bivens. Jason Gardner. Tanya Cook. Chuck with no last name. Austin Van Dyke. Shelly Ramirez. Westo with no last name. Rachel M. Ham with no last name. Trano Wilson Madison. Angela Angelo, Emma. Kobe's. Kobe's. Cobe's, The Mint Bar and Grill. Wherever that is. It didn't give a location, just the Mint Bar and Grill. You can Google it, it's possibly one in your area. Rashad Sharif. Cheryl Henry. Leslie Aguilar. Aguilar, Jenna Rock. Dustin Lafin. Laughin. Heather Beal. John M. Smoochie Tulips. Jocelyn Wheaton. Caitlin Cunnago. Canagoe. Sheila B. Megan with no last name. Megan with no last name. Andrea Silva. Rusty Bikes. With a bunch of numbers in there. That's Rusty Bikes, though, I think.

[A]

Rusty Bikes.

[B]

Mlj Kevin Sloba. He has two patrons. Kevin, if you meant to do that, thank you. Otherwise, just want to let you know you did it twice. Aaron Ross.

[A]

Check it out.

[B]

Annie. West Virginia, or just Annie? WV Jake Sims. Lainey Munson. Phoenix Trinity. Maria Hill. Jesse Boggs. Nope, that's just Jess Boggs. Melissa Zook. Mike Mageski. Mahesky Becca. Eric. Brianne. Brianne Langford. Kerry Kurtley. Jordan Hockenberry. Sarah with no last name. Jody Settle. Kyle Dempsey. Michael with no last name. Odd Mickelson. Courtney Surratt. Jennifer Osborne. Felipe T. Hannah Catrone. Johnny O. Tom with no last name. Nate Taylor. Lindsey Steele. J. Johnston. Danielle Bower. Lexi Z. Victoria O. Desiree Newton. And Slick A Blem. Oh, boy, oh, boy. Slick A blemmy. Slick A blame. Slick a blame. And all of our patrons, thank you.

[A]

I give up. Thank you so much, everybody. You wonderful, fantastic bastards. We. We cannot tell you how much we appreciate all that you do for us all the time, on a daily basis. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you want to follow us on social media, shutupandgivemerder.com has dropdown menus. Take you where you need to go. That said, keep coming back and seeing us every week. We can't wait. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Small Town Murder is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progress Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. But potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.