Smart Girl Dumb Questions

Episode: Are We Really Having Less Sex?

Host: Nayeema Raza
Guest: Dr. Justin Garcia (Director, Kinsey Institute, evolutionary biologist)
Date: September 5, 2025

Episode Overview

In this lively and wide-ranging episode, Nayeema Raza explores the shifting landscape of sex, love, and relationships with Dr. Justin Garcia, evolutionary biologist and director of the Kinsey Institute. They tackle everything from the roots of marriage and the realities behind “sex recession,” to the true impact of dating apps, sexual diversity in the animal kingdom, the science of falling in love, contemporary challenges of singlehood, and why physical and emotional connection means so much for humans—and even pandas.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Changing Ways We Meet and Date (00:35–04:09)

• Are Dating Apps “Over”?
  Nayeema says more people want in-real-life (IRL) connection post-pandemic, but Dr. Garcia highlights that dating apps are still the top way singles meet, referencing long-running national studies.
• Critical View on Apps:
  Despite being funded by Match.com, Garcia stresses he’s not commercially biased—his focus is evolutionary patterns and how technology has and hasn’t changed the nature of courtship.

  “Is it the app, and are they dead? And I don't think that's the evidence.” (01:51, Dr. Garcia)

2. The Science and Culture of Kissing (03:12–06:44)

• Kissing Isn't Universal:
  Studies show only about 44% of societies practice romantic or sexual kissing; in others it’s taboo or has different meanings (like feeding babies pre-chewed food).
• Chemistry or Biology:
  The notion of “instant chemistry” from a first kiss isn’t universal—hormones may be present in saliva, but they’re unlikely to influence the brain by kissing alone.

  “For a lot of places in the world, the idea that you would say, I like you, so I'm gonna spit in your mouth is obscene to people...” (04:03, Dr. Garcia)

3. Fetishes and Sexual Variation (06:44–09:14)

• Commonness of Fetishes:
  Foot fetishes are among the most reported. Clinical “fetishism” is rare, but subclinical preferences and negotiation between partners is common.
• Negotiation Is Key:
  Preference becomes “fetish” only if it’s necessary for arousal. Most people just have “cherry on top” preferences.
• Funny Moment:
  Nayeema jokes about “seasonal fetish”—no leather on Martha’s Vineyard in summer.

  “Seasonal. This is seasonal fetish.” (07:58, Dr. Garcia)

4. Evolutionary Perspectives on Love, Marriage, and Sexuality (09:17–13:57)

• Kinsey’s Legacy:
  Garcia highlights the continuum of sexuality (Kinsey Scale) and its biological basis.
• Do Animals Have Sexual Orientations?
  Depends on definition; animals form same-sex bonds for social and adaptive reasons.
• Origins of Pair-Bonding and Marriage:
  Pair-bonding dates back over 4 million years, but “marriage” as a social contract shifted meaning after agricultural revolution ~10,000–12,000 years ago.
• Resources and Marriage:
  As societies became sedentary, marriage became tied to property and status, not always love.

  “Capitalism is the reason we're not getting laid or we're not sleeping with the right person.” (13:48, Nayeema)

5. The Internet’s Disruption (15:34–18:38)

• Third Great Shift:
  Garcia cites the Internet/dating apps as a major change, not to our innate drive for love, but “how we find each other.”

  • Apps allow for greater, more flexible choice—especially important for marginalized groups.
  • Downside: Too much choice can paralyze—people are struggling to move from app to real-life connection.

  “Something about jumping from the app to the real life is where people are struggling.” (18:38, Garcia)

• Rise of Singlehood:
  A third of U.S. adults are now single; more are comfortable with it, but many still want connection, especially sex within relationships.

  “People don't even want just sex. They want sex in the context of a relationship.” (19:54, Garcia)

6. Cognitive Dissonance and Expectations (20:07–23:35)

• Tech Has Changed Courtship:
  It's not that people don't want relationships—they just have more options now (and not always romantic ones). Social apps compete with dating apps for attention.

• Risk and Romance:
  Recalling the “shaky bridge” study: risk/excitement can be mistaken for attraction (misattribution of arousal).

  “Your heart's pumping...in another context, you'd say, 'I'm having an anxiety attack.' But on a first date, you might say, 'Oh, I really like this person.’” (21:57, Garcia)

• Relationship “Success”:
  Not all endings are failures—brief or finite relationships can still be deeply meaningful.

7. Brain, Body & The Neuroscience of Love (23:57–25:40)

• Is It All in Your Head?
  In love, the ventral tegmental area (VTA), a dopamine center, lights up in brain scans.

  • Romantic rejection looks like cocaine withdrawal in the brain.

  “Their brains look remarkably like someone going through cocaine withdrawal...those are real bodily reactions we have to relationship loss.” (25:23, Garcia)

• Pain of Breakups:
  The agony after a breakup is the “cost of pair bonds”—evolution baked in strong bonds for survival.

8. Animal Kingdom Sex & Reproduction (26:51–34:12)

• Human Sex Positions:
  Sex face-to-face (“missionary”) is rare among animals and may reinforce human bonding.
  • Penises evolved to face forward; testicle size correlates with mating competition among species.
• Orgasm & Evolution:
  Female orgasm’s evolutionary function is debated; personal anecdote about pig farmers manually stimulating pigs for better litters brings (comedic) discomfort.
• Panda Porn:
  In China, researchers show pandas mating videos to encourage reproduction since males have a limited annual window.

  “They’ve created panda porn...to show them to the pandas...so maybe they’ll know what to do.” (32:49, Garcia)

9. Gender, Social Scripts, and Sexual Desire (34:12–37:39)

• Masculinity Myth:
  The idea that men want sex all the time is simply untrue, for both humans and pandas:

  “We have these beliefs about how men and women should experience their sexual lives...and so much of it is kind of dangerous and troubling bullshit.” (34:43, Garcia)

• Visual Culture & Aspiration:
  Removing photos from a dating app led to more messages; people “shop up” in mate value, fueling unrealistic expectations.

10. Marriage, Social Expectations, and Singlehood (38:57–46:36)

• Short Kings and Changing Preferences:
  “Short king” popularity may tie to fitness and compensatory traits, but tall, high-earning men remain dominant in dating preferences (hypergamy).

• Women Outpacing Men:
  As women become more educated/wealthy, traditional scripts are challenged, but ancient gender roles “stick.” Garcia tells a story of a female executive who struggled to respect her stay-at-home-dad husband.

• Nostalgia Trap:
  The idea that love/dating was better in the past is a myth—greater freedom and safety exists now, despite complexity.

  “We have more opportunity today in our intimate lives than ever before.” (42:17, Garcia)

• Cultivating Security:
  Long-term relationships require “psychological safety,” not just spontaneity or checking boxes.

11. Lightning Round: Sex, Love, Compatibility (47:19–51:44)

• Sex & Love Is Bi-Directional:
  Sex can amplify love via bonding hormones (oxytocin); order and timing matter less than compatibility and communication.
• Scripts Are Changing:
  The intimacy order of sexual acts (e.g., oral sex) has changed generationally.
• Monogamy & Polyamory:
  About 1 in 5 Americans have tried consensual non-monogamy; most prefer traditional pair bonds, but variation abounds.

  “There's a lot of variation in what works for them and what they want.” (52:44, Garcia)

12. Unrealistic Expectations & Moving Forward (54:04–56:17)

• Prisoners of Preference:
  People should recognize their agency—not everything is biology or social default; be careful not to expect one partner to “be everything.”
  • Cites Eli Finkel's "All or Nothing Marriage"—the more you expect from a relationship, the more likely you suffocate it.

13. Sex Recession: Is It Real? (56:45–58:29)

• Are Americans Having Less Sex?
  Yes, especially among the partnered; but nuance matters: satisfaction hasn’t always gone down, and variance by age/generation is significant.
• New Peaks in 40s:
  People in their 40s report increased sexual satisfaction and desire for chemistry, flipping old stereotypes.
• Sex & Relationship Satisfaction:
  They reinforce each other bidirectionally.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Pain of Heartbreak:

  “Their brains look remarkably like someone going through cocaine withdrawal...those are real bodily reactions we have to relationship loss.”
  — Dr. Garcia (25:23)

• On Panda Porn:

  “They’ve created panda porn...to show them to the pandas...so maybe they’ll know what to do.”
  — Dr. Garcia (32:49)

• On Misattribution of Arousal:

  “Your heart’s pumping...in another context, you'd say, ‘I'm having an anxiety attack.’ But on a first date, you might say, ‘Oh, I really like this person.’”
  — Dr. Garcia (21:57)

• On Social Myths of Masculinity:

  “And so much of it is kind of dangerous and troubling bullshit.”
  — Dr. Garcia (34:43)

• On the Modern Relationship:

  “A healthy relationship is someone whose faults you can live with.”
  — Dr. Garcia, referencing Esther Perel (54:49)

• On Relationship Endings:

  “Just because a relationship doesn’t last forever doesn’t mean it was a failure.”
  — Dr. Garcia (22:50)

Important Timestamps

• 00:35 – Dating apps and how we meet
• 03:12 – The culture and biology of kissing
• 06:44 – Fetishes: common and not-so-common
• 09:17 – Kinsey, sexual fluidity, and the animal kingdom
• 11:55 – Evolution of marriage and pair-bonding
• 15:34 – The Internet: Third great sexual shift
• 18:38 – The rise and satisfaction of singlehood
• 21:18 – Shaky bridge study and risk-taking in romance
• 23:57 – Scanning the “brain in love”
• 26:51 – Animal sex, penis morphology, and pandas (with porn!)
• 34:12 – Masculinity myth and sexual desire
• 38:57 – Height, status, “short kings,” and shifting gender scripts
• 42:17 – Why nostalgia is misleading in intimacy
• 47:19 – Lightning round on sexual scripts, monogamy, and attraction
• 54:04 – Breaking free from unrealistic relationship expectations
• 56:45 – “Sex recession”: Are we really having less sex?
• 58:17 – Sexual chemistry and relationship satisfaction

Tone & Takeaways

• Curious and Candid:
  Nayeema and Garcia banter openly, blending evolutionary science, humor, and personal anecdotes—everything from “farming fetishes” to the myth of men’s constant desire, panda porn, and the modern malaise of too many choices.
• Non-Judgmental, Nuanced, and Hopeful:
  Garcia approaches everything from sexual orientation to the state of sex among singles and couples with curiosity and respect for diversity, championing agency, flexibility, and the evolutionary strengths of humans’ bonding.
• Practical Wisdom:
  The message: there’s no single right way to be in love or have sex, but mutual respect, communication, and psychological safety trump scripts, stereotypes, or nostalgia.

Summary

This episode busts myths, dives into surprising science, and reminds listeners that while the circumstances of dating, mating, and relationships evolve, the human animal’s drive for connection—and capacity for adaptation—remains strong. Whether you’re single, partnered, monogamous, poly, or panda, you’ll find something fascinating and freeing here.