How Do Kids Change Your Life? with Alison Roman & Max Cantor

Summary

Smart Girl Dumb Questions: How Do Kids Change Your Life? with Alison Roman & Max Cantor

Episode Release Date: June 20, 2025

Nayeema Raza hosts the insightful and engaging episode, "How Do Kids Change Your Life?", featuring the dynamic duo Alison Roman and Max Cantor. This episode delves deep into the transformative journey of introducing a child into an independent, creative partnership. Through candid conversations, humorous anecdotes, and heartfelt reflections, Nayeema explores the multifaceted impact of parenthood on relationships, personal identities, and daily life.

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1. Introduction to the Guests

Nayeema begins by introducing her guests:

• Alison Roman: A renowned chef, writer, and cultural icon known for her books like Dining in and Nothing Fancy. Alison embodies the millennial spirit, blending creativity with practical living.

• Max Cantor: An Emmy-nominated TV and commercial director, previously associated with the time travel series 36 Hours. Max brings a wealth of experience from his successful career in directing.

Notable Quote:

Nayeema Raza [00:13]: "Breaking your body, your bank account, your relationships."

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2. The Beginnings of Alison and Max's Relationship

The conversation kicks off with Alison and Max sharing how they met through Instagram—a modern twist to traditional courtship. They recount their initial interactions, emphasizing the blend of humor, vulnerability, and mutual understanding that sparked their connection.

Notable Quote:

Max Cantor [07:07]: "We met on Instagram, and I felt safe tracing his orbit."

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3. Navigating Conception and Pregnancy

Nayeema probes into the couple's journey towards parenthood. Alison and Max discuss the challenges and myths surrounding conception, such as the misconception that certain postures after sex increase pregnancy chances.

Notable Quote:

Max Cantor [19:14]: "Total myth."

They also touch upon the emotional rollercoaster of trying to conceive, including the use of tracking apps, acupuncture, and eventually, embryo transfer. Their candidness highlights the unpredictable and often frustrating nature of fertility journeys.

Notable Quote:

Max Cantor [20:16]: "But there's no magic bullet. There's no real answer."

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4. The Birth Experience

Alison shares her vivid birth story, detailing the intensity of labor and the miraculous arrival of their baby, Charlie. Max adds his perspective, describing the immediate bond and the overwhelming emotions they both felt.

Notable Quote:

Max Cantor [34:14]: "They (contractions) were the worst pain I've ever felt in my entire life."

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5. Impact on Their Relationship and Sex Life

A significant portion of the discussion centers on how parenthood alters the dynamics of a marriage. Alison and Max reflect on the temporary shifts in their sex life, balancing intimacy with the demands of caring for a newborn.

Notable Quote:

Max Cantor [41:56]: "True. At least for a period of time."

Despite these changes, the couple humorously affirms that they continue to maintain a healthy and active sex life, reinforcing their strong bond.

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6. Financial Adjustments and Prioritizing Money

The couple discusses how having a child reshapes their financial priorities. From budgeting for childcare to making thoughtful spending decisions, Alison and Max highlight the pragmatic side of parenthood.

Notable Quote:

Max Cantor [42:13]: "You have to put it in terms of dollars. Money is about priority."

They also touch on the importance of balancing work and family finances, ensuring that their child's well-being is always a top priority.

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7. Social Media, Privacy, and Sharing Parenting Moments

Alison and Max navigate the complexities of sharing their parenting journey on social media. They debate the merits and drawbacks of oversharing, balancing the desire to document their son's growth with the need to protect his privacy.

Notable Quote:

Max Cantor [49:54]: "I like to think that Charlie won't be leaving Yelp reviews. He'll be like, you know what? Had a good experience."

Their thoughtful approach underscores the importance of being intentional about what and how much to share in the digital age.

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8. Changes in Friendships and Social Circles

Parenthood inevitably alters existing friendships. Alison and Max discuss how their social interactions have shifted, with some relationships fading while others deepen. They emphasize the natural evolution of friendships as life circumstances change.

Notable Quote:

Max Cantor [41:31]: "You have co-workers that are your friends, and then you stop working there. It feels similar to having a child."

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9. Philosophical Reflections and Insights

Throughout the episode, the trio intertwines philosophical musings with their personal experiences. They discuss concepts like identity, the essence of love, and the profound transformation that parenthood brings.

Notable Quote:

Max Cantor [16:51]: "It's like the way you experience things is reflected in how you approach work."

These reflections provide listeners with a deeper understanding of the intrinsic changes that come with becoming parents.

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10. Rapid Fire Round: Fun and Light-hearted Questions

To wrap up the episode, Nayeema engages Alison and Max in a rapid-fire segment filled with playful questions about parenting and baby life. This segment adds a humorous and relatable touch, showcasing the couple's lighthearted side amidst the serious discussions.

Sample Questions and Responses:

• Question: "Most overrated baby item that costs too much."

  • Max Cantor [52:34]: "The Baby Brezza. I gave it away."

• Question: "If your child were to write a Yelp review on your parenting, what would it say?"

  • Max Cantor [47:27]: "Allison is a gem of a parent. Sometimes the milk isn't warm enough."

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11. Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Nayeema concludes the episode by reflecting on the insights shared by Alison and Max. She emphasizes the uniqueness of their story and encourages listeners to seek diverse perspectives on parenthood, acknowledging that every journey is different.

Notable Quote:

Nayeema Raza [55:05]: "Please send me an email with all of your dumb questions."

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Conclusion

This episode of Smart Girl Dumb Questions offers a heartfelt and honest exploration of how having a child can reshape various facets of life. Through Alison and Max's experiences, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the joys, challenges, and profound transformations that come with parenthood. Whether navigating relationship dynamics, financial adjustments, or the digital landscape of parenting, this conversation provides valuable insights and relatable moments for anyone contemplating or experiencing the shift to family life.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Max Cantor [07:07]: "We met on Instagram, and I felt safe tracing his orbit."
• Max Cantor [19:14]: "Total myth."
• Max Cantor [20:16]: "But there's no magic bullet. There's no real answer."
• Max Cantor [34:14]: "They (contractions) were the worst pain I've ever felt in my entire life."
• Max Cantor [41:56]: "True. At least for a period of time."
• Max Cantor [42:13]: "You have to put it in terms of dollars. Money is about priority."
• Max Cantor [49:54]: "I like to think that Charlie won't be leaving Yelp reviews. He'll be like, you know what? Had a good experience."
• Max Cantor [41:31]: "You have co-workers that are your friends, and then you stop working there. It feels similar to having a child."
• Max Cantor [16:51]: "It's like the way you experience things is reflected in how you approach work."
• Max Cantor [52:34]: "The Baby Brezza. I gave it away."
• Max Cantor [47:27]: "Allison is a gem of a parent. Sometimes the milk isn't warm enough."

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting the core discussions, personal stories, and insightful reflections shared by Alison Roman and Max Cantor.

Transcript

[Naima Reza]

Is 5pm and now an acceptable dinner time now that you've seen it before and it is now, I hate it. I call it lunch.

[Max Cantor]

Listen, we're not all like young, hip, swinging.

[Allison Roman]

Smart girl dumb Questions. Welcome to Smart Girl Dumb Questions. I'm Naima Reza and today my questions are around how having kids or even a partner can change your independent life. I thought no one would be more honest with me about this than my friends Allison Roman and Max Cantor. She's a chef, a writer, and something of a cultural icon known for books like Dining in or Nothing Fancy. Think a millennial mess embracing Martha Stewart. Max, meanwhile, is an Emmy nominated TV and commercial director who used to work on that times travel series 36 Hours. He and I actually met while working at the Times and he's one of my favorite collaborators. The two of them are married. They met the Modern Way on Instagram, and earlier this year they had a baby the old fashioned way. I wanted talk to them because we're constantly fed these two conflicting stories. One, that having kids is the only path to a fulfilled life, and two, that having a kid will get in the way of your fulfilling life. Breaking your body, your bank account, your relationships. So I wanted their perspective on all of my questions, including what even is a contraction? Does anybody need a gender reveal party? What does having a baby do to your sex life, your relationship with money, and your friendships with people who don't have kids yet? And while I started this conversation thinking it would be all about babies, I actually learned a ton about relationships. And obviously I needed to know. How do you go from a DM slide to love, marriage and a baby carriage? Here's my conversation with Allison Roman and Max Cantor.

[Naima Reza]

Hi guys. Thank you so much for doing this.

[Max Cantor]

Oh, thank you for having us.

[Naima Reza]

Do always do a podcast on your date night.

[Max Cantor]

We try to, yeah our banter.

We just have to record it all. This is our first time doing something.

Something like this together.

Yeah, I'm kind of nervous.

Only for you.

[Naima Reza]

Did you leave the baby like, at home alone?

[Max Cantor]

He's alone, yeah. We were like, here's a bottle.

He'll sleep for most of it, so it'll be okay.

The first week of having a baby, we both separately had like, either stress dreams or like weird moments where you're like the baby and you're like, oh, the baby's right here.

Like, it is like you instantly have your stress dreams that you see about work or about whatever that like plagues you that's like in your subconscious are.

Instantly replaced, but it's like you lose the baby in the sheets.

Yeah.

Sleeping in the bed, you're like, where's the baby?

[Naima Reza]

You both have had a dream about losing your baby in the sheets.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, I had it like every night.

[Naima Reza]

Do you think maybe you have too many sheets?

[Max Cantor]

We have the standard. We actually have one fewer sheet than most people. Because I don't believe in a top sheet.

[Naima Reza]

You don't believe in top sheet. You just go straight fitted duvets.

[Max Cantor]

We actually don't want to agree on the sheets.

I didn't say we agreed on those sheets. But I just. I was. I'm saying I'm. And that's also not true. Whatever.

But we both agree that the baby should never get lost in the sheep.

[Naima Reza]

That's good.

[Max Cantor]

And that's important.

[Naima Reza]

Don't suffocate your child.

[Max Cantor]

No. And we both agree that he has never gotten lost in the sheets.

Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

Okay, good. This is good.

[Max Cantor]

Don't worry, I'm not co sleepers. It's a whole thing.

[Naima Reza]

Because Charlie is how old he is.

[Max Cantor]

As of today, he is 18 weeks.

[Naima Reza]

18.

[Max Cantor]

So he is just over four months? Yeah, he was four months last Friday.

[Naima Reza]

And what happens at four months?

[Max Cantor]

Well, so Charlie was a month early. So he is both four months and sort of three months. Like he. If. If he were born at the regular time, he would be three months old. If that makes sense. Like developmentally, I gotta find out if.

[Allison Roman]

I was born early so I could.

[Naima Reza]

Be a little younger.

[Max Cantor]

Exactly. You're like, how old am I really?

[Naima Reza]

Exactly.

[Max Cantor]

But it's. They don't really. The doctor doesn't like grade him on a three month old schedule. She grades him on a four month old schedule.

So like height percentage, weight percentage. One thing that happens when you have a baby is all of a sudden you just measure everything all the time.

[Naima Reza]

Oh, really?

[Max Cantor]

Everything is numbers. Everything is like time. It's like you go from milliliters to ounces to.

It's like your whole life is rolled around. You, like, measure how much milk he drinks by the milliliter and like, you're like pumping milk and you're like, I got 60 milliliters. It's like, when have I ever measured 60 milliliters of anything and been like so thrilled?

[Naima Reza]

What do you think they did before? They had like. They didn't have clocks or nothing.

[Max Cantor]

No one was riding. No one did anything. And everybody was fine. We were all fine. None of us, none of these people in this room right now were raised with the technology that we are currently raising our son. And we're all great.

[Naima Reza]

But imagine if we had been. Imagine how great Charlie's gonna be because he was raised.

[Max Cantor]

You know, sometimes I worry that it's not. And I think that, like, we. Yet. We haven't yet seen the. The effects of all of this data and parenting information that we have and the phones and the this and the that and, like, the. Like, there's an app for fucking everything.

They can't just, like, turn on a sound machine that. All it does is make white noise without, like, logging into an app.

We've also freed ourselves a lot from, like, the oppression. Measuring apps and measuring and, like, trying to keep track of everything.

[Naima Reza]

You guys are cool parrots. You're, like, bringing up Babette, the French book.

[Max Cantor]

We're trying to bring up. We are trying to bring up.

Yeah. We had a mantra to do the, like, raise him like he's our second child.

We have a lot of friends, thankfully, that have kids. Some have one, some have two, some have more than that. But everybody agrees that the second time around, you're just significantly more relaxed. You're like, oh, I used to measure everything, and now I don't care. Like, yeah, you just kind of realize that. And so we're trying to skip ahead and be like, okay, maybe we can be a little less fastidious.

[Naima Reza]

And how do you treat your imaginary first child?

[Max Cantor]

They're thriving.

We're actually strange. But he's doing really well.

[Naima Reza]

Right? So. So I have a lot of questions for you guys about parenting, but I want to start with where it all begins. Conception.

[Max Cantor]

Thanks.

[Naima Reza]

Yes. Yes.

[Max Cantor]

Didn't you hear?

Yes.

[Naima Reza]

Tell me how it happens. My Pakistani parents never told me about this. I need to know. Okay. No, but actually, it started, in your case with the most chivalrous romantic moment I can think of. A DM slide.

[Max Cantor]

That's right. It's a thing that every young woman wishes for in a year, 2025. Wishing and hoping that you get that message that changes your life forever.

And I led with the baby, actually. I was like. I was like, I don't want to.

You know, we were talking about babies from within the first 24 hours.

[Naima Reza]

Really?

[Max Cantor]

I think we actually were, actually.

Yes.

[Naima Reza]

Did you tell her about how they're made?

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, that was part.

That was why I was like. I was like, I think if I can, like, back it into this, if I start with the baby, I can get to the sex by just sort of working backwards.

And he did. Wait.

[Naima Reza]

Did he know you were broody? Yeah. Broody? Is that what you call it? You want a Baby.

[Max Cantor]

Never heard that term.

It might be what some people call it.

I've never heard that term. I think broody. I think, like, broody team.

[Naima Reza]

I don't know. English is my second language.

[Max Cantor]

I think horny or, like, traditionally horny.

[Naima Reza]

And not wanted a baby. That's happened to me before.

[Max Cantor]

Wanting a baby, broody. I like that, though. If it doesn't exist, I think we should all cry.

[Naima Reza]

Tell me about that dm. What was the dm?

[Max Cantor]

Oh, we're going way back. We're on.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah. I actually want to start with how you meet. Yeah. How do you meet on.

[Max Cantor]

This is an episode called Where Do Babies Come From?

[Naima Reza]

Yes.

[Max Cantor]

And it starts with a DM Slide. Yeah. I was in Italy on vacation by myself, and I was as. I feel when I. When one is traveling alone, you have your phone as your companion.

[Naima Reza]

Yes.

[Max Cantor]

I did read some books, but mostly I was on my phone and I was taking a lot of photos of myself. So I was there, and Max sent me a message, and I was very. I was, like, hyper attentive to my phone at this point. Again. Cause I was alone. I didn't.

Yeah, it was a little bit of a right place, right to.

Yeah.

You were also single?

Yes, for the first time in a while. Yeah.

She had a single vibe going.

We had a mutual friend on Instagram. We. That, like, I threw some very light sleuthing. Was like, oh, he dated this person's friend, like, I. Who works at this place with other people. I know. Like, he was sort of in. In an orbit that I could trace, so I felt safe.

[Naima Reza]

Engaging Instagram is the new kind of dating app.

[Max Cantor]

People are totally agree.

[Naima Reza]

So you were getting probably a lot of messages at the time. What made Max stand out to you?

[Max Cantor]

It was funny, and it was, like, sweet and vulnerable and also not especially, like, thirsty, I guess, for lack of a better description. Like, it was just, like, funny and casual. And again, I was, like, feeling. Feeling flirty. I was feeling broody.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I was feeling. I was like, oh, I'm gonna, like, get back to New York and I'm gonna date and I'm gonna, like, sow some oats, et cetera.

[Naima Reza]

Yes.

[Max Cantor]

Little did you know.

And then I went out with someone and I was like, oh, I'm gonna marry this person.

We had a real you've got mail stretch because you were traveling. She was gone for, like, two weeks, and I was in la and I was moving back to New York. And so we were just, like, texting, and we did, like, the first, like, voice Note.

Well, I was like, I don't know what his voice sounds like. And I was like, if the voice. And I had, like, dated somebody once where, like, their voice was just like. It's just not the right pitch.

[Naima Reza]

Can you do an imitation?

[Max Cantor]

I can't. It was much higher than mine.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

And when you do a lot of online dating, as I did in my 20s and early 30s, like, you don't know the voice. And so you meet in person, and then they're like, hi, Nice. And then you're like, oh, no. Like, because it just says a lot about you. For better or worse.

[Naima Reza]

That's true.

[Max Cantor]

And in his case, it was for better. I was like, I left. Yeah, I left a voice note. It was sort of like a cookout. Like, you know, call and response. I wanted.

That's actually what she said. Which I found really off putting.

Yeah.

Because I just don't know a lot of birds.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

And he was like, what? I got back. I gotta say, I loved.

[Naima Reza]

Really?

[Max Cantor]

Oh, I mean, ladies, am I right? Were you hearing what I'm hearing? This is a wonderful red right now.

It was like, writing letters home from camp. Like, we were just sort of, like, in constant communication for, like.

I texted him 24 7, and then.

We were like, FaceTime. I don't know. It wasn't weird. It was so easy.

It's sort of the way that we communicate anyway. Like, I write for a living. Max also writes for a living. Like, it's very. If you read something Max writes, you can hear his voice in it. And I feel the same. So when we met in person, it was, like, completely seamless.

I would actually say not at first, because I was so nervous when we met. I was so sweaty. Like, truly, I was so sweaty that she goes. And it wasn't that hot out. She goes, you look like a cartoon. Like, I have, like, a sweaty. You know, like, when you see, like, beats.

I thought that I said that.

No, no. It wasn't in context. I was like, give me five minutes. I was like, I'm gonna take care of this. I'm gonna come back and, like, we'll be all right. And I, like, went into the bathroom and, like, patted myself down.

I was just like. I was like, oh, it's so sweet. He's so nervous. I'm already gonna marry him. Like, yeah, you're like, you don't have to.

[Naima Reza]

We have the date.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. But I. I think we both were nervous on our first date.

And because of that, because we were like, oh, this is like, a different Thing.

Yeah. And we were like, what if we're wrong?

Yeah. And it would be embarrassing.

How many times have we done that?

[Naima Reza]

I have been. Yeah. I've almost married every single.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. I. This is. This is for sure feeling right.

And you really risk embarrassment and, like, of your own dis. Like, you get your hopes up.

[Naima Reza]

There's this, like, very good Kierkegaard quote. That's like your greatest.

[Max Cantor]

Okay.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

Just some.

[Naima Reza]

Just some philosophy to add to my brain.

[Max Cantor]

That was what we talked about on our first date.

Yeah. I brought some Jean Paul Sartre, and we just discussed that.

[Naima Reza]

You know, Can I say my impressive Kierkega garden quote? It is the great. I'm going to paraphrase it. It's like, the greatest memories are for our. Or. Sorry. The greatest sorrows for our future. Sorry.

[Max Cantor]

I love it.

He's. I mean, nobody does it. Like old Soren.

[Naima Reza]

Dumb girl.

[Max Cantor]

Smart question.

[Naima Reza]

Welcome to my spin off show.

[Max Cantor]

Okay. No. Get through it.

[Naima Reza]

The greatest sorrow is for our future, especially the one we never made.

[Max Cantor]

Wow.

[Naima Reza]

Like, kind of like for un. Unrequited dreams.

[Max Cantor]

Greatest sorrow. There's some real handle out there.

Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

Okay.

[Max Cantor]

Tldr.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

Shoot your shot. You have to, like, approach somebody and not approach it. Like a dating app where you're like, hey, what's up? Like, plans tonight? Like, don't be generic. Be specific. Go for, like, if you're gonna slide into the DMS of this person, it has to be purposeful.

[Naima Reza]

I do think that everything these days is a dating app. Do we agree? Everything?

[Max Cantor]

Yes. Yes.

[Naima Reza]

Not the baby apps. I don't think the baby.

[Max Cantor]

No, that's not. I don't recommend that for dating. LinkedIn is a dating app. If you want it to be the.

[Naima Reza]

New York Times cooking app. Strava is a dating app.

[Max Cantor]

What's Strava?

[Naima Reza]

The running app. Strava, the running app.

[Max Cantor]

You're not gonna catch me running or on Strava.

[Naima Reza]

Okay. Move on. From first day back then, they got mar. Married. Okay. So how much did you guys spend on your wedding?

[Max Cantor]

Pass.

You would pass. Pass. But less than you probably think. But more than you probably think in that. Like, I didn't. I.

Less than some people in New York do.

Way less than most people in New York.

Way less than a lot of people do, but way more than you thought when you started the process.

[Naima Reza]

That was my question. Like, does everything get comped if you're an influencer?

[Max Cantor]

Well, if you want to, like, be like, sponsored by Tito' it's like, we're not going to do that.

[Naima Reza]

No, we.

[Max Cantor]

I. I sort of had a policy of, like, I wasn't. There wasn't a price tag on anything that I felt comfortable with putting a hashtag of an @ symbol, a thank you to for my wedding, like, that felt sacred, and that felt like we paid for the wedding that we could afford.

We also got married pretty fast. And, like, the time after. Not. I mean, we got married a year to the day after we. Our first date.

And I was really. I was like, we should do that. We should, like, get married on it, which was fucking Fashion Week. Terrible idea.

[Naima Reza]

Terrible idea.

[Max Cantor]

Because I'm not, like, that plugged in to Fashion Week despite it being shoved down our throats every three weeks in New York. It might be Fashion Week right now. We just don't know it. It's like Mercury being in retrograde. It's like. Is Mercury in retrograde? It's like, well, it always is.

[Allison Roman]

What does that mean?

[Naima Reza]

Mercury's in retrograde? It's always in retrograde.

[Max Cantor]

What does that mean?

We should.

[Naima Reza]

I should have asked Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

[Max Cantor]

Obsessed with your guest curation, by the way. It's like Neil DeGrasse Tyson and us.

[Naima Reza]

Yes. I only bring on the top scientists.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. I was going to say we are the Neil DeGrasse Tyson of having a baby.

Having had a baby four months ago, actually.

[Naima Reza]

You guys are, like, two creative people in creative careers and in a marriage together, and that is something that I like. A friend of mine gave me advice a long time ago that she was like, you're a stock and you should date a bond, which I did. I had to then find out what those things.

[Max Cantor]

Then you had Mark Cuban on the podcast, and you asked him what that meant.

[Naima Reza]

I asked him. But this idea that, like, one person who has, like, a more stable kind of career, more stable personality, and then more a creative type of person, I'm sure.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, we didn't do that.

[Naima Reza]

So how do two creative people make it work? And how does it compare to when you guys have dated the flat one. The bond.

[Max Cantor]

The bond, yes. I never had success with the Bond. I. It wasn't for me.

[Naima Reza]

Okay.

[Max Cantor]

I think we make it work because. Or it works because we both understand what it's like to need to work. Yes. And to, like, really have a core part of your identity, like, be fed and nurtured by our work. That's, like, not something that we can do for each other, not something our friends can do for us, not something that anyone can do for us, but, like, our work is very important. To us, to, like, who we are as people. We. How we define ourselves, how we move through the world. It fills us up.

Yeah. I also think. I also think it's attractive and it's exciting. And we're very, like, we're very temperamentally. Temperamentally complimentary.

Oh, that's really nice. Did you come up with that?

Sounds like a. Like a Rogers and Hammerstein.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

I think that, like, we also have, like, our medium is really different other than kind of writing overlap. But I don't know anything about food. But I know that our sensibilities. My sensibilities in, like, film and TV and writing and her sensibilities in food are really similar. And that it's like, you want to do something, like, fairly simple and accessible at a really high level. That's like an execution that maybe, you know, there's, like, little flourishes and surprises, but it's not precious, it's not delicate. Like, and it's, like, very much comes from how our outlook on anything. So, like, we have this overlap on how we experience a lot of things that is reflected in how we approach work that I find, like, instant kinship in.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

And, like, so it's like, it doesn't have to be, like, I don't have to know anything about, like, tomatoes to understand, like, why and I don't have to.

[Naima Reza]

They're red and they are fruit, not a vegetable.

[Max Cantor]

But to understand that, like, when I go to some restaurants, I feel alienated.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

And when I eat her food, I'm like, oh, that's so you. You know, And I think at our. At your best in your work, it's like you're doing that. We can relate over that. And I think that knowing that that's never going to go away, and it's such a. It's such an opportunity. It's like, I like the idea that, like, dating is so different than marriage. And it's like, who you date and who's, like, exciting or interesting to date is so different than who you are. Like, I want to, like, a life with this person that, like, art. Our children would look at them and, like, see that too, you know, and be like, oh, that's a part of how my mom sees the world, and that's a part of me. And I don't know, it's just. It's so. It's so much bigger and broader than kind of like, mom has a job.

[Naima Reza]

I love that.

[Max Cantor]

That's really sweet. Logistically, it can be really tough.

Schedule wise, it's really challenging.

[Naima Reza]

I was seeing Allison, just looking at you so sweetly and brutally, and I.

[Max Cantor]

Said, I'm broody again. Is it hot nuts, or are we just broody? I don't know. There's nothing there.

[Naima Reza]

That's nothing there. That is so sweet. I really like that. I think I, I. That really resonates. Kind of not an aesthetic, but a style, a way of doing things.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. You're kind of like, how do I want my life to look?

Yeah. Do you feel at home in that?

Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah. You guys have just had a major unlock in me for, like, my dating life.

[Max Cantor]

Oh. Yeah.

It's. It really changes. But you're also. You're a little bit younger than us, right?

I don't.

[Naima Reza]

No. The same.

[Max Cantor]

Well, she was born three years early. She was three years premature.

[Naima Reza]

I am 29. I was born so early. So where was your child conceived?

[Max Cantor]

Upstate New York.

[Naima Reza]

Do you know? Like, how do I pinpoint, you know?

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, because, well, when you're trying to get pregnant, you're obsessively tracking your schedule.

That's when the medicine.

Not everyone. Not everyone does that. I was for a time. You go through this phase where you're like. I mean, we're not. Not trying. Where you're, like, not looking at an app and not tracking your period or not tracking your cycle. And then if that doesn't work, maybe you graduate to the app phase. Basically, you start, like, entering all your information in, and it tracks you, and you're ovulating on this state. You're really fertile this day. And so then I started doing that, and then you're, like, trying to conceive based on, again, your phone and another app, which is extremely unsexy. Unbrody, if you will. And so then you're like, okay, we're gonna relax, so we're not gonna pay attention. And it still doesn't work. You're like, okay, we're gonna go back to the. It's Whatever. It's like, it's. It's so much pressure to say, like, I'm ready for this thing. And then when it doesn't happen effortlessly, it can feel really frustrating. So you're willing to kind of try a bunch of things, right? Like, okay, you go to acupuncture, you do the apps, you do the. This, you do. You stop drinking.

[Naima Reza]

What was the craziest thing you tried?

[Max Cantor]

I don't think anything was. I guess the most. The wildest is we transferred embryos from eggs that I had frozen when I was 35. Um, it wasn't a crazy thing to do. Obviously, it was just the most extreme measure we.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah, the most intense way is.

[Max Cantor]

So you.

[Naima Reza]

Did I have a dumb, really dumb question.

[Max Cantor]

Do you. Are you more likely to get pregnant.

[Naima Reza]

If you keep your legs up after sex?

[Max Cantor]

No. Total myth.

[Naima Reza]

Really?

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. Okay, listen, you're asking me, A, I'm not a doctor, but B, I have asked that question and done the deep dive and the consensus is no.

[Naima Reza]

No. What is the. Is that the dumbest thing that I know?

[Max Cantor]

What are such a common question?

[Naima Reza]

Yeah, I feel like that just is.

[Max Cantor]

There's so much you don't know until you get pregnant. Yeah, there is so much you don't know until you give birth. Like, it is every step of the way. Like, I only know as much about parenting as somebody who has a four month old baby knows. It really is so different for every single person. I do find it useful to talk to people about and to read as much as possible because, you know, you get a lot of information on what it's like and what people did and then you can kind of inform. The only information you get is that there is no real answer. And that does kind of make you feel a little bit better. But you're like, oh, this is a thing that could happen. This is also a thing that could happen. And it makes you feel a little less nervous or scared that you're not doing it right. That there's like a magic bullet. Because there's not.

[Allison Roman]

There's not. And I think that we are sold.

[Naima Reza]

A lot of magic bullets, especially women of our generation are told like, oh, kind of work. Freeze your eggs. It's going to be good. Like lots of magic bullets.

[Max Cantor]

We transferred two embryos that were like perfectly healthy and inside my allegedly perfectly healthy body. And neither of them worked.

And it's really, it's crazy when they're like, you know what? There's no reason why we don't know, so we'll just try again. And you're kind of like.

And that was true.

We don't know. You know, and it. And it's.

And then we got pregnant naturally.

No, I mean. And I think the process of it can be so academic and tedious and unromantic. And then at turns, it's also like the most miraculous thing you've ever been around. And that's really weird. You know, it's so primal. You're just like having those two kind of like constant thoughts running concurrently is really strange.

[Naima Reza]

It's like kind of soul mind and the logistical crazy control mind. Yeah, yeah.

[Max Cantor]

And there are so many Ways to. Like, if you think about a parent and a child, there are about 40 different ways that can happen and combinations. Like people having sex, people doing ivf, people having a surrogate, people adopting, people.

[Naima Reza]

Like, exactly.

[Max Cantor]

Like.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah, exactly.

[Max Cantor]

40 million ways that you can end up in this, like, very special relationship.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah. Killing a man, becomes a widow. Marry him.

[Max Cantor]

Exactly. That was what I was just gonna say.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. That's the dad that stepped up, got the stepdad.

And we thought about it, but we were like, let's just keep trying. It's definitely different as a man or a woman in this equation. But for both of us being, like, you know, we didn't meet when we were, like, 22, so we both had pretty fully formed identities or senses of who we are, even just, like, habits and ways of doing things and, like, our own, you know, sort of stubbornnesses. Right. But neither of us had ever done this, so it's like the first thing we really did. It sounds so dumb to be like, well, like, having a baby and getting pregnant was, like, a really bonding experience. But it's like you're. It's like, one of the few things in life that you're like, oh, I haven't done this. Have you? Like, we've both been to Europe or whatever, you know? And then it's like, but you brag. Yeah, I got a couple of euros stashed away. But it's like, you know, it's like you do those first things as a couple where you, like. You're like, what's your, like, airport habit and what's mine and this. We're like, I don't know what I do here.

What happens on, like, what we do, what we do as a couple, what we do as an individual. How are you as a parent? How are you as any of this stuff?

Which is really fun, because then it's like, every day there's some sort of new thing that you're, like, seeing for the first time.

Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

So I love this. Okay. I want to get to how it changes your relationship.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

I have never thought about that. This is one of the rare things you do for the first time. And it's, like, a lot cooler than bungee jumping for the first time. Although Max is now going to be.

[Allison Roman]

Like, I've done that, and I never will.

[Max Cantor]

And you know what? Neither of us are adventure people, and I love it.

I'm not gonna do it.

[Naima Reza]

No. No one said do that. But I just have a question about this conception thing. Cause it's always really confused me People will say to you, like, oh, I'm X weeks pregnant. I'm X weeks. But then it's not the same number. It's like they're 30 weeks pregnant, but it's only 28 weeks since their last period or something. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Max Cantor]

They count the first day of conception from the date of your. The first day of your last period.

[Naima Reza]

Okay?

[Max Cantor]

So. Because that is the only way they can accurately date an egg.

[Naima Reza]

Got it. So they don't count the conception dates.

[Max Cantor]

So, like, when I went to the doctor for the first time, and they were like, oh, you're eight weeks pregnant. But I had. I know that I'm not eight weeks pregnant because I. They're counting it from the date of my last period. And if you start your period, you're obviously not pregnant.

[Naima Reza]

You were told eight weeks, and you were like, no, it was five weeks ago that we were upstate and my legs were up against the wall waning, right?

[Max Cantor]

But you. I know the date that we. Well, because I. I knew when I was ovulating, and I know that when we had. When we had sex, and because we weren't trying. The doctor told me not to have sex because I had had a procedure to try to figure out what was going on in my uterus. So I was like, okay, obviously I didn't listen to the doctor. We had sex one time. Not to be like, otherwise, we would have had sex way more than one time. But I knew I was ovulating, and I was like, I didn't, like, make it.

You were like, fuck it. We ball.

Yes. Yeah, I was. I'm not. Whatever. It doesn't matter. But all to say is I know that, you know, we had sex.

[Naima Reza]

Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, and when we're back, we're gonna be with this couple who goes to Europe and has sex all the time. They are living the life.

[Max Cantor]

That was a good throw to break.

[Naima Reza]

Thank you.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, really great.

That was like, wow.

[Allison Roman]

Does when we eat matter as much as what we eat? It turns out one of the quickest ways to change our bodies might be just to shift our meal times. Of course, that's easier said than done. And here's how it. I'm Naima Raza, host of Smart Girl Dumb Questions, and this is the sponsor Dumb Question, brought to you by noom. So our ancestors used to live and die by the sun. And that mirrors our kind of internal body clock where the sun is determines things like our digestion, our metabolism, our energy use. But when, thanks to Thomas Edison, we moved from candlelight to the light bulb, everything changed except how our body processes food. So here are the three things you need to know. In the middle of the day, your metabolism is most efficient. Calories get burned faster, and that is the best time to have a bigger meal, say, lunch. But as the day goes on, your digestion actually slows down. And that's why it's good to have your last meal of the day at least a few hours before you go to bed. And by the way, the earlier you get protein in your system, the better it is for your body's efficiency over the course of the day. But as someone who loves a midnight snack, it's easy to say these rules and so much harder to do them. That's why I love Noom, the behavioral change based health app that helps me feel best in my body. Noom makes it so easy to set my goals, track my meals, including when I eat them, and celebrate my progress. Visit Noom.com today to learn more.

[Naima Reza]

One word for each trimester of pregnancy.

[Max Cantor]

Sick for the first trimester.

[Naima Reza]

Okay. Second trimester.

[Max Cantor]

Buoyant.

[Naima Reza]

Third trimester, short. In your case. Is there any film that fits this three act structure? Max?

[Max Cantor]

You know, I love a good buoyant second act. You know, like the more buoyant the midpoint for me is like, well, short.

[Naima Reza]

Third acts is really the rule of thumb.

[Max Cantor]

And a sick first act, I find sets the audience.

If you're like, that was sick. Which nobody really says anymore, I guess.

[Naima Reza]

No one said, yeah, that's actually a perfect three act structure. It's like a sick first act, a buoyant second act and a short third act. That's what you want. You want to get out. Once you're out, you're gonna make fun of me.

[Max Cantor]

I'm all told it was a great pregnancy.

You'll probably make fun of me too for like trying to put everything into a story structure. But the pacing of pregnancy is fantastic. You know, like it's enough for you.

I'm the person who loves how was it for you?

I just mean I'm like, it's really interesting when things occur in nature along like, like seasons, you know not to as a Kierkegaard once. No, like when, when you're like, oh, it's like just about when you're getting used to spring. Like it gets. It's summer, you know, it's like you just sort of get used to things and then they move along and like it gives you just enough time to kind of like settle into it and. And I think like already in a very short window of time with a four month old, we can see like that change where you're like, oh, now we're already in a new phase. Kind of like right when you get like used to something and you kind of go in cruise control or you think you have it figured out, like watching the kind of like my. Our lives are like fairly repetitive and then all of a sudden you undergo.

But awesome.

[Naima Reza]

Sexy and in full of sex and cool stuff. Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

But I mean as an adult, competitive sex life.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

You're sort of like, you hit your routines, you know, and then, and then that's all upended and all of a sudden you're on this like wildly different trajectory. And it actually, I find it like really, it takes away a lot of stress. It creates new stresses, obviously. But like, it also takes away a lot of stress because you're not like, you don't have as much time to think. You're like kind of on the ride in a different way. It's like a really beautiful like natural occurrence.

I was. Yeah, I was. I will say that one thing that's become very clear to me. People, you know, I think when they're considering having kids to begin with, do I want to pursue this? Is this something I even want in my life? I'm scared. Like, what do I do with a kid? They're at a birthday party for their friend and their 4 year old is screaming and you're like, I don't know that that's for me.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

What I will say is that both in pregnancy and in so far, again, four months in or three, they don't ha. I mean, again, excluding. I'm talking about a baby from birth. You're not dropping into those stages without any semblance of being prepared. You're not all of a sudden three months pregnant. Your body changes very gradually. You are given the opportunity to grow into something, to feel things as they move and change. It's not jolting radical change. Except for being not pregnant to pregnant. That was pretty radical for me. I was very sick my first.

[Naima Reza]

And you knew it right away. Like you knew it in your body.

[Allison Roman]

Before you knew it.

[Naima Reza]

On the P10 thing.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, I was like, I think I'm pregnant. But same thing with the baby. Like, we now know Charlie as a four month old baby, which is because we've spent every day with him for four months and like, who he is today is extremely different than the baby we brought home. Really.

[Naima Reza]

I think like. And don't you have a sense of like the essence? Because I've always thought like people, you know, this whole idea of people change or don't change. I've always thought we're like the same essence as we.

[Max Cantor]

I think we are. But the way that they reveal it is so much more. It's very. He's got his shell on still, you know what I mean? Because he doesn't know how to communicate in the same way as we do as an adult. He's. He's, you know, he's born early, so.

But he's very advanced.

[Naima Reza]

Did you do a gender reveal party?

[Max Cantor]

No, absolutely not.

[Naima Reza]

What is your take on gender reveal?

[Max Cantor]

It's a no from me.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

Especially when they cause like massive wildfires.

[Max Cantor]

Especially for any reason. It's. I don't know. I. I also think that like gender reveal, etc are like built for the age of like fully putting your entire life on this place as like a woman who does that often.

[Naima Reza]

But like gender reveals are made for Instagram, which like, we just need you.

[Allison Roman]

To get off Instagram.

[Naima Reza]

Unless you are trying to date me, just like don't be on fucking Instagram.

[Max Cantor]

Right. You know, today I was thinking I was like full of some emotion I can't quite put my finger on. But it's like become an extension of LinkedIn where it's like people are just using it to be like, here's what I'm doing and here's what I'm working on.

[Naima Reza]

Ye.

[Max Cantor]

And if you're like a person who measures your self worth against like what you are making or working on, it's really bad for your mental health.

[Naima Reza]

It's totally bad.

[Max Cantor]

Not that I am that, by the way.

[Allison Roman]

I use it for that a little.

[Naima Reza]

Bit, I have to admit.

[Max Cantor]

Of course I do.

[Naima Reza]

I have like an unpublished essay that I have in me that I've actually written and I should just finish it and give it to my other.

[Max Cantor]

Let this be your sign. Finish that essay.

[Naima Reza]

It's called I hate everyone on Instagram, especially myself.

[Max Cantor]

Wow.

[Naima Reza]

Right?

[Max Cantor]

Pen it.

[Naima Reza]

Don't you think that. Yeah, it's like it's.

[Allison Roman]

There's no one.

[Naima Reza]

The people I like on Instagram are like sometimes guys sliding into my DMs. Old, old people. Like grandparents, like the grandfluencers are fine. Oh, I don't know that I appreciate them. I follow a lot of them because I have a dead father. So Instagram hates me. Yeah, that and also I like people that are just funny.

[Allison Roman]

Funny for no need.

[Naima Reza]

Like, just funny like super snake I.

[Max Cantor]

Also like it for furniture. Not that I'm not, like, buying furniture on Instagram, but I am using it as, like. Oh, that's nice.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah, I like tables on Instagram, too.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. Antiques.

[Naima Reza]

More than I like the people on Instagram. I like the antiques.

[Max Cantor]

I hear you.

[Naima Reza]

Did childbirth hurt?

[Max Cantor]

I had a C section, so the aftermath hurt. But the actual procedure, I did not feel.

But the labor.

Well, it wasn't. It was child. Yeah. I mean, my water broke.

[Naima Reza]

What's the difference between labor and childbirth?

[Max Cantor]

I would say child. I would consider childbirth to be the act of the baby exiting. Exiting.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

Be it vaginally or otherwise.

[Naima Reza]

Stage left or stage right.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, exactly. But the labor. Yes. Was the worst pain I've ever felt in my entire life.

[Naima Reza]

And labor means, like, pushing out the baby labor.

[Max Cantor]

Sorry. I guess I could say the contractions that I felt. So your water breaks. I mean, again, this. I don't know how you ask 50 women how their babies were born, you're gonna get at least, like, 40 different answers.

[Naima Reza]

But is there, like, an order of things, like water breaks, then contractions?

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, but not everyone's water breaks. Okay, Mine did.

[Naima Reza]

Okay.

[Max Cantor]

Sometimes your water is broken for you. Sometimes your water never breaks. Sometimes.

[Naima Reza]

Whatever. And when they say your water breaks.

[Max Cantor]

That means it is a literal. The sack of fluid, the amniotic fluid that your baby is living in. That membrane ruptures, and so that amniotic fluid starts to come out. So what the. What is. The water is amniotic fluid, and it comes out of your vagina. It's not peeing. You're not peeing.

[Naima Reza]

You're just. Comes out of your vagina.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, fully. It's like a cartoon. I was standing in the living room, and I was like, oh. I was like, that was weird. And I was like. Went upstairs, so I'll just tell this graphic. I went upstairs, I went pee, and I wiped, as you do, and there was a little bit of blood. And then I looked in the toilet, and there was more blood, which I had never experienced. Some women experience spotting or blood throughout their pregnancy, especially early on, sometimes later on. And I was like, something's going on. We need to go to the hospital right now. But I was only 35 weeks, so I was like, well, I'm not in labor.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

I just thought something was wrong. So I was like, babe, we should go to the hospital. It was Friday night. I was like, let's go. We walked to the car. I'm in pajamas. Like, we just didn't even hesitate. We just got the keys and, like, walked. We didn't have bags by the time we walked the two blocks to the car. I am fully soaking wet. There was just covered in water. Covered in water, doused in water, soaked in water. But the thing about your water breaking is that it keeps coming. It's not like a water balloon where you pop it and the water comes out and that's it. It keeps coming.

[Naima Reza]

Okay. And then the contractions are.

[Max Cantor]

What contractions are your uterus literally contracting, which begins the labor process.

[Naima Reza]

Well, I'm glad the baby came. Baby came. Baby's beautiful.

[Max Cantor]

Totally healthy.

Just ready.

Perfectly beautiful. I had experienced hemorrhaging, had a blood transfusion. It was like a pretty intense period in the or, but I was asleep for it, so it was more intense for Max, I think, than it was for me.

I don't know about that.

Well, in the. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Afterwards, it was pretty intense. Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

But now baby is here.

[Max Cantor]

Baby's here. He's four months old and he is thriving.

[Naima Reza]

And what is having a baby like? How is the love of. For a baby different to every other love in your life? One friend described it to me like a low grade mdma, high all the time.

[Max Cantor]

That's what you said when.

Well. Well, only one of us and this side of the room is done.

[Naima Reza]

Mdma, Is it the one that's been to Europe?

[Max Cantor]

Yes. We were leaving the hospital and I was like, I feel like. I. Like this is what Molly feels like. Like, this is. And that doesn't last forever, but in that first week, that is what it feels like.

[Naima Reza]

Does that make you want to do Molly more, Max?

[Max Cantor]

No.

I had the opposite reaction. I was like, if this is what Molly's like, I can't take Molly because I'll do it every day.

Yeah, it really is that way. It doesn't feel that way now.

[Naima Reza]

It's something that newborns, but then it catches you.

[Max Cantor]

No, because you're also so full. I mean, for a woman, especially the birthing person, you are full of hormones. You are full of. You're also just, like, adrenaline. It's like, high. You're like. You're on a different planet. It is. It is indescribable. A little bit. And I think that there is some contact high for you. And in that, like, you're not obviously producing the same hormones, but. But it's something. Yeah, men experience something. I don't know what it is, but.

There'S just no other comparison for it in your life.

[Naima Reza]

Is it like the Casey and Jojo Song. It's like, close to me or like.

[Max Cantor]

My mother close to me.

We actually said that. We were like, this is really. No, I said, you seen Jojo?

[Naima Reza]

Well, you said about the mda.

[Max Cantor]

I was like, wow.

[Naima Reza]

I was like, basically there with you in the.

[Max Cantor]

No, it's just that it's like an abnormal dose of feeling good.

[Naima Reza]

Yes.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

Just like the Casey and Jojo.

[Max Cantor]

Yes.

This is the most primal thing in nature, and it's totally humbling to see it. And then when the baby, like, smiles or when he cries or when he wakes up and he looks at you and you're like. I mean, there are multiple moments a day where you're just. You can't believe it.

There are glimmers of the Molly high.

Yeah.

I'm not saying the feeling is dead. It's more just. It's not consistent. Like, there's just a bit more normalcy now.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah. How do you avoid making a baby? Your whole personality or your whole marriage?

[Max Cantor]

I don't know. Again, we're only four months in. It might be. It might be become that, but I don't think that we're in danger of that. In that.

No, I think.

Too selfish. No, I'm just kidding.

I think that it's. I think you have to. I think that it can be tempting if you don't. I would imagine if you don't, like, love your job or you don't have other things that you really care about, other, like, curiosities or pursuits or whatever that excite you, like, it's probably going to outweigh what other shit you were doing before then you probably will be like, I'm just going to spend all my time on the baby. And I kind of get that. I'm kind of like. It's like when people are like. Is really wonderful if people are like, I'm not. Like, I don't have any particular talents or things that interest me that much. Like, I think I'll get into religion. I'm like, yeah, man, do it. Smoke them if you got them. Like, do whatever you got to do. And I feel that way about families and babies. And it's like, it is really purposeful and meaningful to, like, devote your whole life and personality to that. I think that we don't see that for ourselves and it's less natural for us. It's more like, I like the excitement of the fact that, like, Charlie will recognize that in us one day as, like, we are this family unit and within that, we're individual people with individual curiosities. And interests. And, like, our brain is not just devoted to this.

And also, I think when you look to other families that you admire, you know, people that, you know that have decided to make their own families, you're like, wow, they're. You're like, I really like them. Like, they're the way they do that. Yeah, they're doing a great job. We love being with them as a family. We think they're doing a great job. We. And granted, you're not seeing everything, but you can kind of start to like Mosaic, you know, things you like about. And there's, like, been families or couples where we're like, okay, we don't want that. Like, we're. We're also aligned there, you know? And I think that, again, there are so many ways to, like, have a family, be married, raise children, whatever. And having your eyes open and, like, your. Yourself open to the possibility that, like, other people are gonna, like, do things in a way that you admire, that you can, like, emulate or at least strive for, I think is, like. Is nice.

You know, Like, I had an experience where, like, I was, like, realized that all the, like, men, like, male friends were, like, single, whether gay or straight, like, are so bad at talking about it. Like, by and large, I mean, overwhelmingly are, like, ask, like, the worst shit.

Are they gay?

Yeah, they're like, are you bored? Like, someone was like, are you bored? I was like, bored. This is, like, the most exhilarating thing I've ever met, but it's like, you don't know. And then I asked my sister about it, and she's like, yeah, you were just like that.

She's like, you were terrible.

You're so annoying. You know, like, talking about your dumb.

[Naima Reza]

There are things like that. Like, I feel like one of the reasons why babies look more like the dad for the first six months. This is science.

[Max Cantor]

Is this science? We've had this argument.

[Naima Reza]

This is science. Is this not science?

[Max Cantor]

I'm always trying to debunk.

Well, I'm just like, I don't know the scientific method. I can conceive of a scientific method that could assess, like, the inner workings of it.

We've literally talked about this before of.

A baby to, like, can we be motivated not to a father, not to kill a baby? And, like, prime, you know, it wasn't about kill it.

[Naima Reza]

Wait, what? Okay. Sorry.

[Max Cantor]

I don't know.

It sounds very pseudoscience y to me.

[Naima Reza]

The theory for people listening is that babies look like their fathers for the first six months, because otherwise the fathers would run away.

[Max Cantor]

I think it's far more likely that they look like their fathers because they also inherited their father's genetic code.

[Naima Reza]

But then why does it.

[Max Cantor]

There's not, like, some motivation necessarily.

[Naima Reza]

Allison, what do you think?

[Max Cantor]

Like, a predator and prey motivation?

I don't know. I haven't done enough research. I have no theory one way or the other.

[Naima Reza]

Did your first invisible child look like Max?

[Max Cantor]

He did, yeah.

[Naima Reza]

Did he look like Max?

[Max Cantor]

But also, Charlie changes every day. Every day, we're like, he looks like. Just like. I'm like, oh, no. He looks. Oh, he's looking like. He's looking like daddy to Dick.

[Allison Roman]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

Like, we are like, really? You don't want to hear how we speak in the home.

[Naima Reza]

But, yeah, baby talk.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Naima Reza]

A lot of baby talk. Do you think that you will lose friends because you've had a baby?

[Max Cantor]

I don't want to say lose friends. I will say the relationships change. And I think that having been on the other side of that as well, like, I've been the person without children as other friends of mine have had them, it's such a intense shift that I think it's natural for those things to change. I think that there are certain friendships that have not really changed, or they've just. They've changed a little bit, but, like, they also changed when, like, one of them moved away or we got married or whatever. Like, it doesn't feel related to necessarily having a child. And then there are some friendships that change, and in that, you kind of realize that maybe there isn't just as much there anymore. And we don't really do friend breakups in the way that we do a relationship breakup. But sometimes you're like.

[Naima Reza]

You don't text them and say, I just am not feeling that chemistry between us anymore.

[Max Cantor]

But I think sometimes, like, say, where are we headed?

[Naima Reza]

Yeah. They're very ambiguous. Loss.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. And I think, you know, the easiest way to describe it is when you have co workers that are your friends, and then you stop working at that job, and then you're like, we're totally gonna stay in touch. And you get drinks a few times after you guys get new jobs. But then ultimately, you realize the only thing you had in common is the fact that you worked at the same place. Yeah, kind of like that. And once you get a new job, you're like, what are we doing? Hanging out.

[Naima Reza]

Okay, true or false? Having a baby will completely change your sex life.

[Max Cantor]

True, True.

At least for a period of time.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah. Not forever, because you guys have sex all the Time.

[Max Cantor]

We are having sex right now. No, we.

[Naima Reza]

This is a podcast. Threesome is really unpleasurable for me.

[Max Cantor]

I might just say, really keeping it together.

[Naima Reza]

Does how you think about money change?

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, I think, you know, you put it well, like, how you think about the priority of money, you know, Like, I mean, yeah, there are the bigger picture. Money, things that come with, like, what's down the road or what's, like, urgent. Right. And then there's also the, like, is this worth a sitter? Like, the short term question, you know.

Like, is things definitely get a dollar amount? Like, if you're gonna be like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna, like, kind of like what you said about the friends thing. It's like, well, for me to go get dinner with you on a Tuesday, I am gonna either ask my husband to, like, not leave the house, which sometimes he's happy to do.

[Naima Reza]

Right.

[Max Cantor]

And same to me, like, I'm happy to stay home, or I'm gonna pay somebody upwards of a hundred dollars to have dinner with you.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

On top of paying for dinner.

[Naima Reza]

But you would do that for me? You're pointing at me when you're sitting.

[Max Cantor]

Oh, I'm saying I'm.

[Naima Reza]

It's so nice because you guys paid a sitter to come do this podcast.

[Max Cantor]

We did.

[Naima Reza]

That's very nice. Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

But you also said you would pay for our sitter.

[Naima Reza]

I did say that.

[Max Cantor]

I'm just kidding.

[Naima Reza]

I did say that, but that was very sweet.

[Allison Roman]

Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

If a friend cancels plans on you or flakes, should they venmo you for the sitter? No, no, no.

[Max Cantor]

Absolutely not.

[Naima Reza]

No etiquette.

[Max Cantor]

I wouldn't. I would be, like, great a night to do whatever the fuck I want. Absolutely. Sign me.

[Naima Reza]

I know. I love being canceled on. It's my favorite thing.

[Max Cantor]

Except, cancel on me, daddy. Yeah. Really?

[Naima Reza]

I. I do like it.

[Max Cantor]

Bail. Bail all day.

[Allison Roman]

I want to do some food questions.

[Max Cantor]

Okay.

[Naima Reza]

And then some film questions as it relates to parenting. So food questions. Does your child, Allison, eat, like, the best food?

[Max Cantor]

I mean, right now, the child eats a combination of my breast milk and formula that I buy from the best.

Breast milk in town.

[Naima Reza]

Have you tasted her breast milk?

[Max Cantor]

Absolutely, I. I have, but not in, like, a drink. It, like, in, like, a Curious.

No, you. It was, like, a drop that we.

And you know what it tastes like? It tastes like milk.

[Naima Reza]

Really? It just tastes like regular milk.

[Max Cantor]

It's like.

I mean, you didn't really drink enough to know.

No, I wouldn't say I even drank it. I say I tried it.

He tasted It.

She said something to me. She's like. Which I think. I don't know if it's like, a compliment or an insult or somewhere in between, but she was like, you just seem like the kind of guy who's gonna, like, want to try the milk.

Yeah. When I was pregnant, I was like, you're gonna want to try my best milk.

You're totally one of those guys.

There's gonna be, like, a thing there.

[Naima Reza]

Like, when I wrote this question, I was like, max for sure has tried.

[Max Cantor]

The breast milk, but it took him a while. It's like two months.

Well, we were just busy. I wasn't like, I wasn't like. Well, it's like, the breast milk is really precious in the beginning.

That's true. You know, again, we're measuring.

Like, it's a little indulgent for me to be like, let me sample the wares, pal. And he's like, five pounds, you know, it's like, yeah.

[Naima Reza]

But then when he's too much, he's like, he can fend for himself.

[Max Cantor]

Guys, yoke for me now a little, you know? Yeah.

You can sit out and feel you son's mouth.

[Naima Reza]

See, that's why the kid has to look like you. If you were to write a cookbook for babies, what would it be called?

[Max Cantor]

I don't think that I will do that. I say that now he's four months old. Maybe when he's like six, I'll be like, you know what? I have some ideas for how that could actually work, but it seems to me that most parents that I know that are cooks or cook in their home or have food around in some capacity, it's very like, you eat, the kid eats what you eat. I do think there is something to be said about the baby sort of like, understanding that food is meant to be enjoyed and it's fun and it's celebratory, and it's, like, messy, and it's delicious, and it's. It's something that they want to be involved in. And I think that in the same way, like, we play a lot of music in the house. We. We light a lot of candles. Like, we are, like, making. Yeah, we are making the life that we want, like, our son to really enjoy. Like, we want him to love music. We want him to, like, love being around our friends. We want him to love food. Like, and I think just by exposure, like, hopefully, all those things happen.

[Naima Reza]

Okay.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. I also think you are. You are. Like, there's something about a kid as an audience for food where it's like. It's so. They're not. What am I trying to say? They're. They're.

They're gonna definitely tell me they're really honest about it.

[Naima Reza]

Oh, yeah.

[Max Cantor]

And so it's like. Like the most nervous I've ever seen for you to, like, cook for someone was like, my nephews. Because she knows, like, if this pancake doesn't hit, like, you're gonna hear about it. And like, when he's like, that's crispy, that's crunchy. And she was, like, thrilled.

[Naima Reza]

How old was this food critic?

[Max Cantor]

He was three. And we said, what do you like about this pancake? And he said, the crunchy edges. And I said, that's right, Jack. Because that's. I think a hallmark of my pancake recipe is that way to take your.

[Naima Reza]

Power back for the three.

[Max Cantor]

That's what I'm saying. I was like, you're not gonna ruin my self esteem today. Not today, Jack.

[Naima Reza]

Not today. Fifteen minutes ago.

[Max Cantor]

Although I did one time find myself in a humbling moment making this same child spaghetti for Thanksgiving eve. And there was tomato sauce, and he didn't care for it and made me rinse his noodles, so I had to wash the spaghetti of the sauce. Humbling situation over there.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah. Okay. Love it. Last food question. If your child were. If Charlie were to write a Yelp review on your parenting, what would it say?

[Max Cantor]

Oh, God. He would say, allison is a gem of a parent. He would say that sometimes the milk isn't warm enough, and he doesn't like that.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah, but is it 5 stars? 4 stars?

[Max Cantor]

It's like 4.5.

[Naima Reza]

Okay.

[Max Cantor]

Just because the milk temperature sometimes is too cold for him, and he really hates that.

[Naima Reza]

Fair. Do you have an addendum to that Yelp review that's a five star? We all know, like, nobody with a five star review goes on Yelp to leave a review. They keep their happiness inside. And all the angry people.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, because they don't exactly.

[Naima Reza]

Only angry babies go to Yelp.

[Max Cantor]

I like to think that Charlie won't be leaving Yelp reviews. He'll be like, you know what? Had a good experience.

Yeah. We replaced by something much more complex.

I don't need to live my life like this.

[Naima Reza]

That's true. Film questions for you, Max. How are you documenting childhood of Charlie.

[Max Cantor]

All the time, but somehow not enough. We're doing. I got a little Super 8 camera when Allison got pregnant, which is a nice. Which we haven't gotten any of it developed yet.

And it's kind of like a little Time capsule. Yeah.

It's gonna be very cool.

[Naima Reza]

But then you have all these digital photos.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. We take so many photos. And then we have some, like, film cameras in rotation.

Yeah. That we just kind of keep around the house to, like, if we.

And, like, the moon strikes. Little Polaroid.

I have never looked better than when Max takes photos of me.

[Naima Reza]

I know. The husband of Instagram.

[Max Cantor]

Unbelievable. Like, I'm like, wow, these. I'm so hot. I look amazing. You are so grateful to have photos of myself during this time. And, like, even the ones where I'm like, oh, I look bad, I look blah, blah, blah, but, like, weeks later, you're like, I'm so glad that I have that moment. So if there's anyone listening that's like, what can I do for my partner? Postpartum or, like, through pregnancy or whatever. Like, take pictures of them.

[Naima Reza]

Take thirst traps of your postpartum.

[Max Cantor]

Take photos. Even if you're not good at it. Take pictures of them, and it really is meaningful.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah, I love that.

[Max Cantor]

And every woman I know wants that. Yeah. Not gender. It's just, you know. No, that's true.

[Naima Reza]

I mean, I think whether you've had a baby or not, you want good photos.

[Max Cantor]

That's what I'm saying. I mean, we also look at the.

Photos of him all the time.

[Naima Reza]

Did you talk about your philosophy about sharing pictures of Charlie on social media?

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, we did discuss it.

[Naima Reza]

Did you guys agree, or was it like a JLo Ben Affleck moment?

[Max Cantor]

Did they not agree?

[Naima Reza]

Like, she made it.

[Max Cantor]

I think we have a better marriage than JLo and Ben Affleck did.

[Naima Reza]

I think they got married anymore. So love is love. But did you have a conversation about it?

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, I think, like, Max shares a lot more freely, but admittedly has fewer eyeballs.

Yeah.

On it. And it's also your instruments. It's like, what are you comfortable with? I think for me.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah, it's a.

[Max Cantor]

Bit more complex because there's a lot of people looking, and it's weird. I still don't always know how I feel about it, because on the one hand, I'm like, my baby is so cute. Or I look amazing in this photo. No, but, like, you know, it is your life, and you do want to share it, and you are proud of it. And I made something, and it's cool, and I want to. Like, he's so wonderful, and I want to. This is what's happening in my life. Like, it doesn't feel gross to me, but then.

Yeah. I mean, Allison faces a lot more scrutiny.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

Than I do. So it's a different consideration for me, even though it's like, we're in that together. But I think, as a general rule, like, it's in the same way that you kind of, like, know what's right or wrong. Like, I feel like there are things, given that their privacy doesn't exist anymore as a concept for a person born into this world, or maybe a different consideration that's born out of, like, former paparazzi mentality of the 2000s.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

I'm also not that famous.

You know, if you're JLo, it is a little different.

Right? Yeah.

But I think being like, you know, we're not getting stalked on the street by someone taking a picture where we have to, like, protect the baby's face.

[Naima Reza]

I don't want to fact check you, but it was JLO who wanted to share her life and Ben Affleck.

[Max Cantor]

Oh, really?

[Naima Reza]

Just so you understand that he has.

[Max Cantor]

The most important moment that makes sense. But I'm a little Teen Ben. I'm just saying, when a woman's. But I think it's like, given that that's the state of any kid coming into the world now anyway, that they're gonna have to deal with that among their friends. And it feels like we don't want to do anything that he would feel was a violation of him later and, like, misrepresenting him or putting him in a position that feels like goes beyond the degree of, like, which at which his privacy would already sort of be stripped from him.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Allison Roman]

It's weird.

[Naima Reza]

Cause you're, like, negotiating with, like, a future person.

[Max Cantor]

It also just feels different in that, like, most of my online presence is career oriented. It's like, here's the chicken. Here's pasta. Here's a. Whatever.

[Naima Reza]

It's like I wrote.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, exactly. And then when I got married was sort of the first time, like, my personal life crept in in a more meaningful way.

[Naima Reza]

Well, your photos also got hotter. So then you had.

[Max Cantor]

Exactly.

[Allison Roman]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

And there is. I don't know. It's. It's very weird. And I. I think about it a lot, and I don't have a perfect answer or even, like, a definitive answer on how I feel about it.

I think we both agree that the emojis over the face feels a little silly.

That's not for us.

[Naima Reza]

That's not for us.

[Max Cantor]

I get.

I get why people do it.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah. What about the artful shots where it's, like, always the back of the head?

[Max Cantor]

You know, that that's not hard to do because when you're holding a baby, like, you're like, oh. Like you're not necessarily posing your baby.

[Naima Reza]

Like, it's either me looking hot with my. My husband taking this photo, or it's the baby looking hot.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah, exactly. The baby.

It's a tricky one.

[Naima Reza]

Let's do a rapid fire, dumb questions round. Most overrated baby item that costs too much.

[Max Cantor]

The baby brezza, which is a sterilizer bottle washer. I. I gave it away.

[Naima Reza]

One baby item you thought was ridiculous and now you swear by.

[Max Cantor]

I was pretty judicious. I didn't really. The baby brezza was the only superfluous item we bought, and it is now no longer in the home.

[Naima Reza]

Okay. It's out already.

[Max Cantor]

I don't have an answer for that.

We're very loi.

[Naima Reza]

Do you now have more empathy for people who have crying babies on planes?

[Max Cantor]

I always had empathy for crime babies on planes.

[Naima Reza]

Okay. I always.

[Max Cantor]

Because they're babies. Not to get all, like, Mr. Rogers, but it's like, when you have a baby, you, like, look for the helpers. And I think people who've had babies, like, no. You know, it's like, I can tell a lot of times when you're, like, pushing a stroller through, like, a small coffee shop door, like, can almost always tell, like, who gets it.

[Naima Reza]

How much is too much money to spend on a first birthday?

[Max Cantor]

$40.

No. I think I have a lot of friends, actually, we've been discussing this because they are nearing their children's first birthdays. It's like, do I do this? Do I not do this? It feels superfluous. I think of the way that I would like to approach it anyway, is treating that first birthday as, like, a party for yourself. Like, we. We are celebrating one year as a family. We are celebrating each other. We are celebrating one year as a family. I don't need to invite other babies to be sitting around a little baby who doesn't really do it. Like, no, we're gonna put a little hat on. We're gonna, like. I'm gonna make them a little sweet treat. I'm gonna, like, maybe have some, like, close friends and family that have been around if they're around. No pressure to come. Yes.

Candles.

Yeah, obviously. But to me, it's like, it's an anniversary party of becoming a family. It's less so.

[Naima Reza]

What about baby gifts? Do you think every. All your friends have to get you baby gifts? I have gotten so many baby gifts for people.

[Max Cantor]

No, but we've really enjoyed.

We've really appreciated them.

And people have sent some really thoughtful things.

And no, we haven't sent thank you cards yet, but we have the stationary and are going to do that.

[Naima Reza]

I end every conversation asking, what do people on this podcast, these extremely smart guests I have, like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Paul Krugman, and Allison Roman and Max Cantor. All. All the same Elk. What are you dumb about?

[Max Cantor]

What do you not know most things? I don't know anything about being a parent yet. I didn't know that you had to. Like, when you give a birth to a baby, they go on the mother's insurance, not the father's. Like, so you have to have insurance, and then you have 30 days to get the baby its own insurance. I didn't know that.

[Naima Reza]

Okay, but now you know it, so.

[Max Cantor]

Oh, I didn't. What do I not know?

[Naima Reza]

What do you not know? What? I literally. This is one question I gave you.

[Allison Roman]

Guys before you came.

[Max Cantor]

I know, but we're new parents. We don't do anything. People.

We just know so much. It's hard.

Well, no, you said what you prepare. Come with a question.

[Naima Reza]

Come with a question.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. My question was, what are they going to do with all those movie theaters?

[Naima Reza]

With all those movie theaters that are.

[Max Cantor]

That are gone and bankrupt and it's like, there's no more movie theater in this place. Can they repurpose that building for something else? Like, can it only ever be a movie theater because. Because they're so bespoke in their dimensions. I don't know. We walk by a movie theater all the time that's now vacant on Court street, and I'm like, what could this. It's like, for lease. I'm like, well, who's gonna lease this if you're not another movie theater?

Right.

But I think about, like, modern architecture and how it's, like, basically built for turnkey businesses to mean nothing. So that's why everything looks like shit. Yeah, it's like everything's a white bo. Could be a coffee shop or a florist or a pet store, or it's.

[Naima Reza]

Like, that's why I live inside of a movie theater.

[Max Cantor]

You do? Oh, I was like, movie theater. But a movie theater can only be a movie theater. Right.

[Naima Reza]

That's. I don't know if you weren't watching movies, because you were not. You prefer watching them at home now. You should go to save real estate.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah.

[Naima Reza]

Save the people who own this.

[Max Cantor]

Or, like, could somebody.

Yeah. We're always looking out for big real estate investors.

Commercial.

That's always sort of like, our hearts to Empathy.

We got you. Go fund me.

[Naima Reza]

Max, what's a dumb question you have?

[Max Cantor]

Like, speculatively.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah.

[Max Cantor]

I wonder if we're gonna have countries, if. If we'll. If in our lifetime we'll stop having, like, nation states. Like, the same way you go through, like, feudalism into whatever. I'm like, will it just sort of be like a disconnected digital world where you, like, buy into, like, here I am with, like, this is my wallet. This is my whatever identity.

[Naima Reza]

Yeah. And then, like, sovereignty as the individual.

[Max Cantor]

Yeah. Like. And you're all under, like, a certain plan or something.

What are you thinking about this stuff, babe?

I gotta stay up late. You know, I don't know.

[Naima Reza]

I just.

[Max Cantor]

I wonder if that. If, like, AI Corporations sort of subsume.

Like a nationalist show is called Smart Girls, Dumb questions. And question was a little too intelligent. I'm like, what happens to movie theaters? And you're like, well, we presuppose a feudalist state.

[Naima Reza]

I'm like, okay, well, all right. I love it. You are very concerned about the fate of countries and the fate and their movie theaters state. Thank you for keeping your palpable attraction in your pants during this whole episode. I saw you guys just looking at each other so lovingly. This is so cute. It's really very generous of you.

[Max Cantor]

I love my husband.

[Naima Reza]

And now I'll Venmo you for the babysitter.

[Max Cantor]

Everybody listening can Venmo me $12 to help me.

It goes in the first birthday fund.

[Naima Reza]

Exactly. Thank you guys for doing.

[Allison Roman]

Wow, those two are so cute. I obviously had to reach out to their imaginary first child for negative comment, but the kid would not go on the record. In all seriousness, I have often thought that dating just gets so hard starting in your 30s because you're such a fully formed, independent person with strong preferences. But that conversation with Allison and Max gave me a lot of insight and hope into how two creative, independent people with strong and, some would say, esoteric or centric visions of their own life can find overlap and kind of navigate that love together and do all kinds of new and exciting things together, including the very animalistic, very new thing of having a baby. So lots of insights about kids and partnerships. But as Alison said, this is one vignette, and you could go out there and talk to 40 different people and come up with 40 different stories, especially when it comes to the pregnancy journey. And I so appreciated how honest and open Allison was about her journey to pregnancy, because we're often sold these kind of myths of, go out there and freeze your eggs and freeze your sperm. Those are all good ideas, but they're not necessarily a silver bullet for those of us that are broody. And on the topic of broody, I just want to end with this note. I was right and Allison was right. There are two definitions of the term broody. One is like a gloomy and moody person, and the other is a hen who's ready to sit on and lay some eggs. The latter is more like British slang, and as an Anglophile, I obviously gravitated towards that interpretation. Anyways, I'll spare you more of that or my Madonna accent, but please send me an email with all of your dumb questions naimaraza101gmail.com or you can slide into my DMs. Not necessarily in that way. That's it for this week on Smart Girl Dumb Questions. This episode was produced with Claire Lichtenstein, H.E. cruise and Diana DaCosta, with additional editorial from Hollywood Thiel. Our theme music is by David Khan and I'm your host, Naima Reza. I'll see you next week on Smart Girl Dumb Questions.