Bilt Card 2.0 Explained: Can Rent (or a Mortgage) Earn Points—and Is It Worth the Math?

Summary

Episode Summary: Bilt Card 2.0 Explained: Can Rent (or a Mortgage) Earn Points—and Is It Worth the Math?

Podcast: Smart Travel: Upgrade Your Getaways
Hosts: Sally French & Megan Coyle (NerdWallet Travel)
Date: January 21, 2026

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Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

This episode is a deep dive into Bilt’s new credit card lineup and loyalty program—"Bilt 2.0"—with a focus on whether it’s worth paying rent or a mortgage with these cards to earn points. Sally and Megan (your “travel nerds”) break down the math, rules, earning rates, redemption options, and practical pros and cons for maximizing travel rewards using Bilt’s new cards. They also discuss recent travel credit card news, give budgeting tips, and answer a listener’s travel-redemption question, all while maintaining their trademark conversational, witty style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Travel Credit Card News & Updates

• Hyatt Card Offer (03:17):

  • New Hyatt limited-time welcome offer: Up to 5 free nights at category 1-4 hotels after hitting spending milestones.
  • Sally and Megan highlight appealing properties and value, while cautioning listeners about the spending requirements and expiration (Feb 26).

• Southwest Airlines Assigned Seating (04:03):

  • Southwest moves to assigned seating to reduce airport chaos, but possibly at the expense of "pick any seat" tradition.
  • Discussion about ways to improve boarding positions, elite status, and credit cards.

• TSA REAL ID Change (06:20):

  • Starting Feb 1, no REAL ID at the airport = $45 fee and extra 30-min wait for alternative ID verification.

• NerdWallet Travel Rewards Coaching Giveaway (07:24):

  • Chance to win a points-and-miles strategy session with expert Aaron Hurd.

2. Why Bilt Is (Still) Worth Discussing

• Bilt isn’t just for renters anymore—now mortgage payers can earn points.
• Bilt points are a transferable currency, making them highly valuable for travel, similar to Chase and Amex points.
• Hosts clarify editorial independence from Bilt, despite sponsorship ads.

3. How Did Bilt Work Before? (09:47)

• Original Model: $0 annual fee, earn 1 point per rent dollar if 5 card purchases/month were made (aka the “banana hack”).
• Problem: Wells Fargo lost money due to minimal spending and huge points payouts (reportedly $10 million/month loss), prompting the need for changes.

4. The New Bilt Cards and Earning Schemes (11:24, 12:12)

• Three New Cards:
  • Bilt Blue: $0 annual fee
  • Bilt Obsidian: $95 annual fee
  • Bilt Palladium: $495 annual fee

Earning Points on Rent and Mortgage—Three Complex Tiers (13:42)

• Tiered Earning Structure:
  • Spend a percentage of your housing payment (rent/mortgage) on non-housing purchases using the card; percent spent = points per dollar earned on your housing payment.
• Sample Math:
  • E.g., Pay $4,000/month rent. Spend $1,000 (25%) on other items → 0.5 pts/dollar on rent.
  • Spend $3,000 (75%) → 1 pt/dollar on rent.
  • Spend $4,000 (100%) → 1.25 pts/dollar on rent; but this is rare and mostly for those with very low rent.
• Minimum Earning:
  • If you spend less than 25% of your rent on other purchases, you get a flat 250 points.

“According to Nerdwall's valuations, Bilt points are worth about 1.8 cents each.”
—Megan Coyle [13:42]

Option 2: Bilt Cash & The New 3% Fee (17:46)

• Alternative Earning:
  • Get 4% Bilt Cash (not cash back—restricted use) on non-housing purchases, which can offset a 3% fee to earn points on rent/mortgage.
  • Bilt Cash expires at year-end (except for $100 rollover).
  • Redemption options limited—Lyft credits, fitness, certain merchants.
• Math Example: Spend 75% of rent/mortgage ($3,000 for $4,000 rent) on the card’s other categories to have enough Bilt Cash to cover the 3% fee for housing points.
• Opportunity cost: You could get better cashback or points with less effort elsewhere unless you really value Bilt’s travel partners.

Maximalist Value & The Catch (22:35)

• Palladium Card Perks:
  • 2 pts/dollar (at 1.8¢ each) = 3.6% “return” on general spend, plus 4% Bilt Cash—so, potentially 7.6% if you maximize everything and use the right redemptions.
• Catch:
  • Bilt Cash redemption is limited; not all categories offer full value, and redemption caps/restrictions may apply.

“You’re getting a 7.6% return rate on your everyday purchases with the Bilt Palladium card.”
—Megan Coyle [23:15]

• Strategic Take:
  • Best value comes from maximizing transfers to partners like Alaska or Hyatt, NOT paying rent/mortgage; Bilt’s signature feature is actually the least lucrative for super-optimizers.

General Opportunity Cost & Confusion

• Bilt 2.0 is mathematically complex (“made us really good at algebra”).
• Frequent, last-minute changes breed uncertainty and erode trust (mid-recording update!).
• Multiple currencies (Bilt Points, Bilt Cash) increase confusion even for enthusiasts.

“You actually have to tell me how much your rent is, how much you plan to spend on this card, before I can tell you if it’s good for you or not.”
—Megan Coyle [29:30]

5. Product Rollout Drama & Community Reactions (29:14)

• Messy communication, last-minute rollouts, heated subreddit outrage, and conflicting customer service answers.
• Hosts caution listeners to expect more changes and possible restrictions/caps as Bilt reacts to user pushback.

“This rollout has not inspired confidence.”
—Sally French [32:13]

6. Card Feature Breakdown (34:57, 35:13)

• Bilt Blue: 1 pt/$, $0 fee
• Bilt Obsidian: $95 fee, 3x dining/groceries (pick one), 2x travel, $100 hotel credit (split in two), 2-night min.
• Bilt Palladium: $495 fee, 2x everywhere, 4% Bilt cash, $400 hotel credit (split), $200 annual Bilt cash, lounge access (Priority Pass for 2 guests), 50k points signup + $300 Bilt Cash ($1200 in value by NerdWallet estimate).

Comparisons (With Chase, Capital One Venture X, etc.)

• Obsidian likened to Chase Sapphire Preferred.
• Palladium compared to Venture X (with differences in lounge quality, bonus categories).
• Note: All Bilt cards get 1.25¢ value/point in portal, matching old Chase portal value.

Transfer Partners: Value & Strategy (40:59)

• Best Partners:
  • Alaska Airlines (Atmos) — unique/valuable redemption options, even if you’re not west coast.
  • Hyatt — for all-inclusive/high-value hotel stays.
  • Japan Airlines, United, Southwest, IHG, Marriott, Hilton, Avianca, FlyingBlue (Air France/KLM), Air Canada, etc.

“Alaska Airlines and their partner Hawaiian Airlines...I have been able to book some really excellent award flights for other people that live on the east coast.”
—Megan Coyle [43:16]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Banana Hack Lore
“All these people…everyone just made the cheapest possible expense that they could to get those five purchases. Banana purchase times five. I love that.”
—Sally French [10:12]

On the Rollout Chaos
“Built 2.0, now, charitable Sally will acknowledge that the company is listening to their customers...However, Pessimistic Sally is very skeptical about this and I’m not so confident...as they saw all the pitchforks.”
—Sally French [33:09]

On Opportunity Cost
“There is an opportunity cost to your own mental gymnastics and your mental sanity of remembering to spend this money. Absolutely.”
—Sally French [45:00]

On Super-Optimizers
“Not as much as what the super maximizers could and shout out super maximizers. I know they listen to the show. If that is you, I love that.”
—Sally French [44:03]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:19] Credit card news (Hyatt, Southwest, TSA changes)
• [08:12] Why talk about Bilt? Bilt 2.0 for renters/owners
• [09:47] How Bilt worked before (& Wells Fargo losses/the “banana hack”)
• [11:24] New card lineup explained
• [12:12] Earning points on rent/mortgage: Tiered system
• [13:42] Value of Bilt points & sample earnings math
• [17:46] Option 2: Bilt Cash & 3% fee method explained
• [22:35] Stacking earnings math: Palladium’s maximum value scenario
• [29:14] The messy rollout, mid-recording changes, subreddit outrage
• [32:34] Dangers of product instability and confidence erosion
• [34:57] Card-by-card feature breakdown and fee discussion
• [40:59] Transfer partners—why they matter, who benefits
• [47:19] Listener question: How to best redeem miles to Greece (with bonus redemption strategies)
• [50:18] How to contact the show and share feedback

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Takeaways & Advice

• Best for Super-Optimizers: Bilt 2.0 is most valuable if you do lots of monthly spending, can maximize transfer partners, and don’t mind jumping through mental hoops.
• Rent/Mortgage Payments: You can earn points, but—after accounting for the effort, fees, and lost opportunity for better rewards elsewhere—it’s usually not game-changing except for specific use cases.
• Rollout Instability: The program rules are changing fast. If you want stability (and don’t want to constantly change payment setups), wait and see.
• Transfer Partners Are the Real Draw: Alaska, Hyatt, and other transfer partners are where the magic happens—especially if you’re already a points optimizer.
• Bilt Cash Limitations: Treat this like a coupon book you must use fast and strategically.
• For Most Users: If you don’t like complexity, stick to simpler high-cashback or travel points cards and skip the gymnastics.

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Final Thoughts

Sally is “waiting and seeing” before jumping in, despite the allure of 7%+ returns, due to ongoing instability and complexity. Megan is on the fence—tempted by the signup bonuses/groceries category, but wary of the effort. The show closes by urging listeners to weigh opportunity costs, fit cards to overall strategy, and not rush into Bilt if it doesn’t feel right.

Listener Questions:

• They love to answer real travel hacking scenarios—write in or DM!

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Overall Tone:
Conversational, nerdy, wryly skeptical, occasionally math-nerdy but always practical and audience-focused. The hosts balance enthusiasm for points optimization with healthy caution about complexity and instability.

Best For:
Travel maximizers, “points and miles” hobbyists, and anyone considering a new twist on earning rewards from rent or mortgage payments.
Not for: Simplicity-seekers who don’t want to track lots of moving pieces.

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For full details, links, and any referenced articles, visit the episode description or NerdWallet.com.

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

The following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by NerdWallet's editorial team. Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt. It is 2026 and if you are still paying rent without Bilt, it might be time for a change. BILT is a loyalty program for renters.

[Sally French]

That rewards you for what is usually.

[Narrator/Host]

People'S biggest monthly expense.

[Sally French]

That's rent.

[Narrator/Host]

With bilt, every rent payment earns you points that can be used towards flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases and so much more. And here's something I'm really excited about. Starting in February, BILT members can earn points on mortgage payments for the first time. Soon you'll be able to get rewarded wherever you live and unlock exclusive benefits with more than 45,000 restaurants, fitness clubs, pharmacies and other neighborhood partners. Personally, I would redeem my points for the fitness classes. Redemption options include SoulCycle, Pure Bar, CorePower, Rumble, and Berries. See ya in the Red Room. It's simple with bilt, paying rent feels better because you can get more. And soon owning a home can feel better with BILT too. Earn rewards and get something back wherever you live. Join the loyalty program for renters at joinbuilt.com smarttravel that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com smarttravel make sure to use our URL so they know I sent ya.

[Megan Coyle]

Sally I knew we were going to have to come back to this topic.

[Sally French]

Oh yes. So Built Rewards unveiled their new cards and their new rewards system and it is not the easiest thing to explain.

[Megan Coyle]

Three new cards, two different types of rewards, currencies and yeah, a lot of math to figure it all out.

[Sally French]

A lot of math. And we will answer the question everyone has been asking. So can I use these cards to earn points on rent and mortgage payments?

[Megan Coyle]

Maybe the better question is should you? Welcome to Smart Travel, a deep dive into the tips, tools and tactics to maximize your travel dollars. I'm Megan Coyle.

[Sally French]

And I'm Sally French and we're the.

[Megan Coyle]

Travel nerds ready to help you plan your next big trip. And today we are talking all about the new credit cards that have been top of mind in the world of points and miles. And that is the new BILT cards that launched last week.

[Sally French]

But first our disclaimer and that is that we'll talk about a few credit card companies besides Just Build. And some of those companies are Nerd Wallet partners. That does not influence how we discuss them. The benefits terms and fees mentioned were accurate at the time of posting. But things can change. Some offers may have expired by the time you're listening, so for the latest details, follow the links in the episode description.

[Megan Coyle]

Before we get to our main segment on Bill, we should talk about some other credit card news though so the.

[Sally French]

Listeners know by now. We love Hyatt and I love my Hyatt card for the Gym Membership Bonus rewards category which is actually pretty rare among credit cards. And now they have a very compelling intro offer.

[Megan Coyle]

That's right, the World of Hyatt credit card from Chase has a limited time welcome offer right now that new cardholders can earn up to five free nights at category one through four hotels.

[Sally French]

So Megan, tell the people what they have to do to get this.

[Megan Coyle]

This is a two part offer. You earn three free nights after you spend $5,000 in the first three months and then another two nights if you spend $15,000 in the first six months.

[Sally French]

That is a lot of value if you do have big expenses coming up and you can hit that $15,000 spending requirement. Category 1 through 4 Hyatts include some really solid hotels in major cities, fun vacation spots. We have a great article on the best category 4 Hyatt Hotels on NerdWallet.com, i will post a full link in the episode description.

[Megan Coyle]

Now Hyatt's award chart goes up to eight categories so category one through four hotels won't be the super luxury properties. But I think people will be really surprised with some of the hotels on this list. The Thompson hotel in Washington D.C. the On Daz in Savannah, Georgia is another one. And Dream in South Beach, Miami and also abroad.

[Sally French]

What do you say? Not luxury properties because all those brands are luxury brands.

[Megan Coyle]

Meghan oh for sure. I'm just saying there's some of everything for everyone with this kind of bonus offer.

[Sally French]

But keep in mind it is a limited time bonus offer running through February 26th. So don't sit on this one too long. And of course if you want to apply, we've got a link to do that on Nerdwallet.com Speaking of sitting, we.

[Megan Coyle]

Got to talk about Southwest.

[Sally French]

Megan, I see what you did there. It is the assigned seats news.

[Megan Coyle]

Yes, that's right. Southwest Assigned seating officially begins January 27th.

[Sally French]

Make it this is the last week of the chaos. I am so sad. I loved the pick. Any see you want energy.

[Megan Coyle]

It really is the end of an era for flights. From that date on out, travelers will have a seat assignment when they go to the gate. People have been able to book assigned seats for a while now, but they haven't actually seen the assigned seating in action yet.

[Sally French]

And then there are also different seat types, too. There is extra legroom preferred in standard, and yes, of course, some of those cost more.

[Megan Coyle]

On the bright side, though, I think this is going to mean a lot less chaos and less anxiety for a lot of people. Speaking for me, okay, not like the chaos. My problem was that I never checked in on time when I was flying back on Southwest. You know, your return flight and you're like, trying to make the most of your last day on vacation, and I just would not check in for the flight.

[Sally French]

So then you don't just set an alarm on your iPhone?

[Megan Coyle]

No. So I'm in, like, B45. I don't even know if that was a real assignment.

[Sally French]

Sounds like user error to me.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[Sally French]

Well, now, if you bought the cheapest ferry, Megan, you might still have that horrible boarding position. If you're in B47, you are probably getting back row middle C. And if you buy the cheapest fare now on Southwest, that also means you will probably get back row middle seat. So now, instead of just dressing when you're at the airport, if you'll get it now, you have to dread that horrible seat you have all the way up until your flight.

[Megan Coyle]

You know, I think about it kind of differently, though. There's a lot of ways to avoid being the last person to get a seat assignment. And you don't have to be checking your email. So, of course, one option is you could always just buy a more expensive fare that lets you choose a seat.

[Sally French]

Megan. I'm not doing that.

[Megan Coyle]

You won't, Sally. I think, honestly I might if I really cared that much about not getting middle seat. This also might be the time to start thinking about Southwest elite status, Although I'm not sure I would chase that just to get seat assignments.

[Narrator/Host]

No.

[Megan Coyle]

Or you could also get a Southwest credit card. Many cardholders can select seats earlier even if you buy a basic fare.

[Sally French]

I will agree with you on that one. If you fly Southwest, this might be a reason to consider applying for a Southwest credit card if you do not have one already. We have extensive guides to all the Southwest credit cards on Noelle.com Again, we will post links to that in the episode description.

[Megan Coyle]

We did talk about this next news item on this show already, but I want to bring it up again because I really don't want listeners to be caught off guard and end up losing some money.

[Sally French]

Ooh, is this a TSA Real ID news? Yep.

[Megan Coyle]

So starting February 1st, travelers who show up at the airport without a real ID or another acceptable form of identification can still fly, but they will have to pay $45.

[Sally French]

And not only will you have to pay the $45, but the process to go through TSA without real ID might also be slower. So TSA put out this announcement recently saying to spend an additional 30 minutes waiting if you don't have real ID. That's because they're using an alternative identification confirmation system. It's called TSA Confirm id. And that's if you don't have the real id. So you will have to wait to go through that process. On top of the also $45 you will have to pay.

[Megan Coyle]

I would pay $45 to avoid that 30 minute thing.

[Sally French]

I agree.

[Megan Coyle]

Just make the DMV appointment and get your real ID if you haven't already.

[Sally French]

Amen. And last but not least, this news comes straight from NerdWallet.

[Megan Coyle]

We are running a promotion to win a travel rewards coaching strategy session.

[Sally French]

Who's doing it?

[Megan Coyle]

Well, none of us is. With Aaron Hurd, who you might have heard on the show last year. She taught us how. She took her whole family to Europe on points and she's an absolute boss when it comes to maximizing credit cards.

[Sally French]

Aaron is a pro. So you can enter to win a free travel rewards coaching strategy session with Aaron. This is your time to talk to her. Ask her directly all your burning travel rewards questions. She will will help you map out a plan to make your travel dreams come true using points and miles.

[Megan Coyle]

So to win, subscribe to our free travel nerd newsletter and you'll be automatically entered to win. This offer ends on January 30, so make sure you sign up before then.

[Sally French]

So is there a website they can go to to enter?

[Megan Coyle]

Yes. We'll put the link in the episode description of today's show.

[Sally French]

Ooh, I love that idea. Okay, boom, it is there.

[Megan Coyle]

Ready to dive into Bill?

[Sally French]

Oh, Megan, I am so ready.

[Megan Coyle]

Let's go. I want to actually start with a question that one of our producers asked us before we started recording, which is why are we talking about Bilt on Smart Travel?

[Sally French]

I guess that's a fair question. Most people probably associate Bilt with earning points on rent. And I will say as a homeowner myself, it was really not relevant to me until about this time last week when BILT released the details of what is called BILT 2.0. That is the news we shared last week. They have three new cards and a new rewards program. They also have the quote unquote ability to earn points on mortgage payments for the first time. We will get to that bit in a second.

[Megan Coyle]

And I think the reason that Built Rewards is so popular with travelers is because it's a transferable currency. So it's like those Chase Ultimate Rewards. It's like Amex Membership Rewards. And of course you can redeem those points for a bunch of different things, but by far the best value redemptions are for travel. So we'll also talk about that more later on.

[Sally French]

And I have said I yearn for those Alaska miles that you can earn or at most rewards points, because that is really something I couldn't ever earn before because I was not a renter. So I am very intrigued. I will also say you have probably heard the paid sponsorships for Built Products on this show. Nobody paid us to do this episode. Megan and I have full editorial independence. We are covering this news because it is such a big story. They are not paying us. They did not send us to any fancy launch parties just to get that out of the way. Let's start with the real news here, which is all the changes Bilt Rewards made to its loyalty program and its cards last week.

[Megan Coyle]

To understand all of that, I think you have to know what the Bilt Rewards program was like before. So Bilt Rewards is famous for letting members earn points on their rent payments. And until now, the main way to earn points was to apply for their one credit card. It's called the Bilt World Elite MasterCard Credit Card. And it had a zero dollar annual fee. And if you made at least five purchases per month on the card, you could earn one point per dollar on your rent payments.

[Sally French]

Can we talk about the bananas?

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, please, let's do it.

[Sally French]

Well, so all these people, this is hilarious to me and I love, like, weird credit card lore. Everyone just made the cheapest possible expense that they could to get those five purchases. They're like, what are the five cheapest things I could buy? So they just did banana purchase. Banana purchase times five. I love that.

[Megan Coyle]

Let's talk about why that wasn't sustainable. So the bank that issued this card, Wells Fargo, didn't have a lot of ways to make money for it. Remember, the annual fee on this card was $0.

[Sally French]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

So they're not getting money that way. Many of the cardholders probably weren't carrying a balance.

[Sally French]

They're paying off their five bananas.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. So they're not paying these interest fees or late fees to the bank. So they're not making money that way either. The only way to make money was on transaction Fees. And like you said, some people were only making five purchases a month on their card. Transaction fee is just a percentage of what you pay. So cardholders are earning tons of points on rent and the bank was losing out. According to the Wall Street Journal, Wells Fargo was reportedly losing $10 million a month on this card.

[Sally French]

Whoa. I did not know that. I can't believe they signed onto this deal to begin with.

[Megan Coyle]

I know it wasn't going to last forever.

[Sally French]

Wells Fargo is so happy that they're out of it now.

[Megan Coyle]

Absolutely. So Bill announced that their partnership with Wells Fargo was ending. This was back in November. And that they were going to introduce three new cards. So we finally have the details about those. There are three cards. One still does have a zero dollar annual fee. That's the Built Blue card. Then there's the Built Obsidian card. This one has a $95 annual fee. And then the fancy one is the Built Palladium card, which has a $495 annual fee.

[Sally French]

And then the real kicker, in addition to all these new card options with various annual fees and various benefits that come with those cards, is that not only are you able to earn points on rent, but you can now earn points on mortgage payments as well. This did seem intriguing to me, a homeowner, because I have a big mortgage payment with my home and sf, so I want to be able to earn points on that.

[Megan Coyle]

The only problem is that Bilt needed to figure out how to make this all profitable.

[Sally French]

Classic. We're going to give you rewards, but we also got to make money out of it. So by getting members to spend more money, they have made it very complicated for us and they presented this in the most confusing way possible. So literally, as we were recording this episode, they just changed it on us. So for the listeners who don't know, we were talking and we had to rerecord part of what we were just going to say because it is different. What is different, you ask? So now there are a few options you have. Option one is you can earn points on your rent or mortgage payments in tiers based on how much other spending you do on the card in one month. Also, I'll be clear, the other spending varies based on what you your rent or mortgage payment is. So if you spend at least 25% of your monthly rent, you will earn half a point per dollar spent on that total rent or also mortgage payment. So let's say you have a $4,000 rental mortgage payment. You would have to spend $1,000 on the card each month to earn the extra 2,000 built points per month. But again, if Your rent is $8,000, then spend $2,000 on the card each month. So the higher renter mortgage, the more you also got to spend on other things.

[Megan Coyle]

And this is where we should put this into perspective. According to Nerdwall's valuations, built points are worth about 1.8 cents each. So going back to that $4,000 rent example, you'd only be earning about $36 worth of points for your rent payment. This is not a life changing amount of points that you're earning on rent.

[Sally French]

I will say though, that is the lowest of the tiers. So if you spend the least amount, which would be 25% that they allow, and you do need to spend at least 25% to get any sort of points, that is the lowest amount. But then there are more tiers. So the higher the percent that you spend on other stuff of your monthly rent or mortgage payments, the more points you get. So going back, I know It's a lot. 25% of your monthly spend means you get a half a point per dollar on your total housing payment. However, if you spend at least 50% of your monthly payment on other stuff, like your groceries or whatever, you will earn 0.75 points per dollar you spend on housing. And then if you do even one better, if you spend 75% of your monthly rent payment, you will earn one point per dollar.

[Megan Coyle]

And one point per dollar is probably what most people want. It's the standard that built kind of established under their old system. Are we calling that built 1.0? Because we're calling this one built 2.2.2 maybe. Who knows what version we're on?

[Sally French]

Back when built was nice and easy, built 1.0 again, you would have to spend now 75% of your monthly housing payment on non rent purchases to get this one point per dollar.

[Megan Coyle]

This really depends on how much of your spending you're doing on other things. And there's even another tier that we haven't even talked about yet, which is if you're spending the same amount on your credit card on other stuff that's not housing. So for that $4,000 rent example we've been using, if you're also spending $4,000 a month on other things on going out to eat on vacations and you're putting it all on your built card, you could earn 1.25 points per dollar on your rent. So for the $4,000 a month rent, you'd earn an additional 5,000 points on your rent. That's just a lot of spending. Oh my goodness.

[Sally French]

I actually do think there is a class of people who spend the same amount of money on their credit card as they do in rent. And that is my wonderful friends out there who have somehow managed to score super cheap rent. If you are paying $500 a month for rent, please tell me where you live because that sounds amazing. Those people I think are probably the most logical candidates for people who would be getting that 1 to 5 points per dollar spent on their rent. Then again, your rent is only $500, so you are also only getting 500 built points. So you know, everything sort of shakes out.

[Megan Coyle]

Let's talk about what happens if you do not spend even 25% on your rent. Will you earn any built points under this option? If you're spending, let's say only a couple hundred dollars on this card and that's not even 25% of your rent payment, there is a minimum number of points you'll get just for paying rent with this one of these build cards and that's 250 points. If you don't spend at least 25% of your rent or mortgage payment on other things, you'll at least earn 250 points which like pennies. It's like really not a lot of.

[Sally French]

Money, not life changing, but at least I think this could be marginally helpful. If you for some reason maybe don't meet the spend threshold that month but you otherwise would earn it, then at least maybe you get something for your rent or mortgage payments that month.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, honestly maybe in that case you just think about the second option for earning it. This is just one of the earning schemes of how to earn points on rent or mortgage payments. So let's move on to the next one option to tell us about option two.

[Sally French]

And already if listeners are sufficiently stressed, I'm with you. Also, what built did to us is make us really good at algebra.

[Megan Coyle]

I feel like done a lot of math in the past couple of days. Okay, option two, you can choose to earn the standard number of points on all the purchases and then as far as earning on rent, you will basically earn a 4% back in this new currency called built cash on all of your purchases that are not rent or mortgages. And then you can apply that 4% back in built cash towards a 3% fee to earn points on your rent or mortgages. And built cash is a bit strange. It would be great if it was just real cash back and you could get like statement credit or a check in the mail or whatever. But right now, you can only redeem it for certain things in the build ecosystem. And it expires at the end of the year, which is another thing that doesn't happen with cash back.

[Sally French]

More generally, I will say generally, I hate cards that don't let you have the cash back option because there's so many people who, for whatever reason, can't travel. So I say just get the cash back and do something with it. And then also the expiration dates. Nah.

[Megan Coyle]

So built cash actually expires at the end of the calendar year, but you can roll over $100 to the following year. So they're really forcing you to use it on a regular basis. Let's talk about how you can use it. So there are some redemption options where $0.01 of built cash gets you $0.01 of value. So that's considered good.

[Sally French]

Right.

[Megan Coyle]

But the big redemption option that everyone's talking about has to do with this new 3% fee for earning points on rent or mortgage payments.

[Sally French]

So this is the one that we really need to dig into because of course, use your built cash. Get that Berries bootcamp class. Totally good. But should I use my built cash to pay this fee? Please, Megan, tell me about it, because I'm stressed and confused.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, so we're going to get into the math portion already. Here we go. You need to cover a 3% fee to earn the full 1 point per dollar on your rent or mortgage payment.

[Sally French]

Right.

[Megan Coyle]

But all the purchases you make on this card that are not rent or mortgage payments earn 4% bill cash. Okay, I'm going to totally simplify this for you.

[Sally French]

Please.

[Megan Coyle]

Do you basically need to spend 75% of your rent or mortgage payment on your card in one to be able to earn enough bill cash to cover your fee and unlock all of the housing points?

[Sally French]

Oh, I don't do that. Do you think people do that?

[Megan Coyle]

I don't know. I mean, let's put this into real numbers that people can play around with.

[Sally French]

Let's do that.

[Megan Coyle]

So let's take a $4,000 a month mortgage or rent payment. You would need to spend $3,000 a month on other purchases on the card to earn enough bilt cash to earn 4,000 built points on your rent or mortgage payment.

[Sally French]

Unless it's something wild is happening, like, you know, my wedding planning month or I'm planning a big trip. I. I'm not doing that.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah. And just think about it like, you might be losing the opportunity to earn more points on different cards.

[Sally French]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

Achieve any of your other Travel goals. If it isn't all with Bill, that could be a lot of money to put on one card because I get.

[Sally French]

2.67% cash back on another card that I use on all my general spending. So I don't want to transfer that to built.

[Megan Coyle]

But there is a little wrinkle here, which is that built points are really valuable. So according to NerdWallet's valuations, built points are worth about 1.8 cents each if you're transferring them to partners for smart hotel or flight redemptions. We're talking like the world of Hyatt redemptions. Maybe a really good Alaska Airlines redemption. There are so many ways to use built points, but I think it is relatively reasonable to expect you could get 1.8 cents in value from them.

[Sally French]

That is a good point if you want access to Bilt transfer partners. And really, the one that I mentioned at the top of the show is Alaska. I was planning my whole honeymoon back from Madagascar, and some of the best flight redemptions involved paying Atmos rewards points. Atmos is the loyalty program affiliated with Alaska, and I do not have Atmos rewards points because there are no really great ways to get them. You either have to spend an Alaska card, you have to fly Alaska a bunch, but Bilt offers a great way to get them in that you can transfer built points to Alaska. And I have no Alaska points already. And I have no built points, so I just couldn't even use that as an option.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. So these built cards do give you access, and also you don't have to have a built card to earn built points.

[Sally French]

Okay, that's true.

[Megan Coyle]

But it is probably the most efficient way to earn them. So let's get back to the math. You mentioned, Sally, that you have a card that gets 2.67%.

[Sally French]

Yes, I do. That is correct.

[Megan Coyle]

That sounds great. I'm going to blow your mind with.

[Sally French]

Okay, all right, I'm ready. I'm on the edge of my seat.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, so the built palladium card, that's the premium card. It has a $495 annual fee. That's a lot. It earns 2 points per dollar spent on everyday purchases. So not rent or mortgage.

[Sally French]

Okay.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay. Let's multiply that by the value of the built points, which is 1.8 cents per point.

[Sally French]

That's assuming that you're getting a great redemption, like an Alaska type redemption.

[Megan Coyle]

Right.

[Sally French]

Okay.

[Megan Coyle]

So 1.8 times 2 points per dollar, you're at 3.6% already beating your cash back.

[Sally French]

Interesting. All right, all right.

[Megan Coyle]

And then we haven't even considered yet that you're also earning 4% built cash on that. So 3.6% plus 4%. You're getting 7.6% return rate on your everyday purchases with a built palladium card.

[Sally French]

Interesting. I haven't really done this math for myself. I think you're kind of blowing my mind here. Yeah.

[Megan Coyle]

But there is a catch.

[Sally French]

Yes, there's always a catch. Tell me.

[Megan Coyle]

Of course. So the 4% built cash that I just added on there is not always worth 4 cents.

[Sally French]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

There are only certain things you can use built cash for to get dollar for dollar value. Or in this case we'll call it cent percent value.

[Sally French]

So there are all sorts of partners that you can spend this built cash with. I'll give you some options. There are hotel bookings made in the built travel portal. There's Lyft credits, fitness classes, dining, home Delivery. Powered by GoPuff the Bilt Collection, which is this special series of limited drops and select items from Built. I do think the lift is compelling, but I hate to be tied in to whatever this built collection is. I don't want to get my home delivery from GoPuff. And also the fitness classes. I have my own gym thing. I do like a Berries every once in a while, but I just don't want to have money tied up that I'm now suddenly feeling obligated to go to Berry's all the time again.

[Megan Coyle]

These are some of the things that you can redeem built cash for for that dollar to dollar or cent to cent rat want. But honestly, we don't know what some of the stipulations or restrictions are going to be.

[Sally French]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

What if you can only redeem $10 of built cash at a time for a Lyft credit?

[Sally French]

Yes, sometimes they do that.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah. And then you have to take like a million lift rides a month. Like I don't know that I want to do that.

[Sally French]

So when would people find out the terms of all these little silly things?

[Megan Coyle]

We're all waiting, you know.

[Sally French]

But it does seem like you have to be on top of it. And then also you have to remember that there's the expiration date. So if for some reason I'm doing a ton of shopping on my card in December. Oh, I don't know why? Because everyone spends money in December. Then I have all this built cash, but then only a hundred of it can roll over. I guess I gotta do a lot of Barry's classes in December.

[Megan Coyle]

You're gonna be super fit in December. Maybe not the worst really ahead on your New Year's resolutions. Okay. But I do wanna point out that this is just one way to think about Built Cash. This is for the optimizers, the people who want every single cent out of these points and built, but there are other ways to do it too. So all this to say, if you want to get the most value out of your Built points, you probably don't want to pay rent or mortgages with your Built card.

[Sally French]

Interesting.

[Megan Coyle]

With the Palladium card, for example, you'll earn those 2 points per dollar spent on all your purchases. And then again, we're assuming that you can redeem those points for at least 1.8 cents apiece through transfer partners. Then you'll redeem your 4% back for maybe those hotel bookings that you make in the Bilt Travel portal, I don't know. And then bam, that's how you get 7.6% back on your purchases. And you didn't even touch the rent or mortgage payment part of this because you weren't doing that. You redeemed your Built Cash for something else.

[Sally French]

So you are telling me that the card that got famous for paying rent and apparently now mortgages. You don't want me to pay rent or mortgages with this card.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, you don't have to if you want to get the best value out of it. In fact, our colleague Craig Joseph wrote about how he's going to use Built Cash for those better value redemptions. And he explains it really well. If you want to read that, we'll put the link in the episode description.

[Sally French]

Okay. Craig has been all over this building, so shout out Craig. Yeah, and just to be clear, we talked about this last week on the show, but Built Cash is a different currency than Built Points. So already I think these made up bank currencies are very confusing. The number of people who have said to me, what is a United Mile worth? I would be a United millionaire if they asked me that. And I got a United Mile every time they asked me that. So Bilt has made it doubly complicated because not only can you earn Bilt points for spending on your card, but you also can earn Built Cash. To be clear, Built Cash is not a Built Point.

[Megan Coyle]

You can redeem the Built Points for this fee to earn extra points. I kind of think about it. If you simplify that a little bit is kind of like you're just buying extra Built Points with your Built Cash.

[Sally French]

Interesting.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, so that is one way you could use it.

[Sally French]

That's not really how Built Built Frames it themselves built frames it as. You can use this built cash to buy a bunch of stuff in their network, which are things like Barry's boot camp classes and Lyft rides.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, we've been throwing around a lot of numbers. I think we need to talk about the actual cards now and what these earn rates are.

[Sally French]

Yes, because also we have to account for the fact that these cards have annual fees. So you are paying potentially a huge annual fee to get that over 7% return. We. We will talk about these cards, their benefits and their annual fees after the break.

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[Sally French]

All right, and at risk of sounding like ChatGPT, because I know this is their favorite trope, we have to talk about the elephant in the room. Megan, the elephant in the room is. I gotta say, the Built rollout has been rough.

[Megan Coyle]

Rocky to say the least. I feel like I didn't know what was happening. They would announce something and I'm trying to do all this math to figure out is that even a good thing? What they announced? You're really trying to parse through all of this marketing language and figure out what's going on. And it is so complicated that I feel like you actually have to tell me how much your rent is, how much you plan to spend on this card before I can tell you if it's good for you or not.

[Sally French]

Yes. And then we mentioned this earlier in the show, but mid midway through recording the show, Built decided on Friday afternoon, on Friday evening for our east coast friends that they were going to change their program again. So this is just indicative of what is going on over there.

[Megan Coyle]

It sounds like the card has not been fully fleshed out yet in terms of all of these rewards and that's really scary when you might possibly commit to spending a lot of money on the annual fees for this card and even all the spending you're doing on these cards. It's a lot of work to move all those subscriptions. I hate doing that. So, yes, this is a lot to consider when you're thinking about getting a new card.

[Sally French]

Leading up to the card roll out, a lot of people were like, what is going on? Because there were so many leaks. The built subreddit. If y' all read Reddit, you gotta go to the built subredd. Like Michael Jackson popcorn emoji reading that subreddit. But everyone is stressed, confused, angry, whatever. Over at the BILT subreddit, and then with the Friday afternoon change, it just went wild. Immediately after we stopped recording our podcast and then had to go back and rerecord, I was like, I am on the BILT subreddit figuring out what all these people are saying. The people are not happy.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, yeah, they are not happy. And also, it doesn't help that people from Built are trying to respond. And I get this too, where you're trying to respond to comments, and it's just making it worse. Sometimes just admitting that you don't know what's coming next for some of these credits or the built cash, that's been really hard to watch. So people have to know if they're going to consider these build cards, that they have to be okay with. A lot of uncertainty going forward in the next couple of weeks. Weeks for sure.

[Sally French]

A lot of uncertainty. I think about the fact that you're putting so much money into not just the annual fee on this card, but you are transferring your credit card payments from those recurring gym memberships and subscriptions over to Bilt. And if something goes south, because Bilt changes are terms again and you want to stop being a built customer, that's a lot of work for you. This is not like you're going to a restaurant. You eat there once, it's terrible. And you know what? You never have to eat there again. When you apply for a new credit card, this is something that NerdWallet recommends you might hold onto for many years. Some people hold onto a credit card for their whole life. My dad proudly proclaims that he has the same credit card that he's had since the 1980s, which I do not recommend, dad. But anyway, besides that, people are hanging onto these products for a long time. You really want to be confident in the company. And I will say this rollout has not inspired confidence One of the things.

[Megan Coyle]

To watch as we move forward is more specifics on the built cash usage. I would also look to see if they add caps to any of the rewards rates. Like we said, some of the rewards rates can be quite high and so we're going to see whether or not they're going to try and put limits on some of these benefits. I am very curious about the merchant specific caps on the built cash like the Lyft example we were talking about earlier. I think that is something to watch as we get move forward with these cards.

[Sally French]

Built 2.0 now charitable Sally will acknowledge that the company is listening to their customers. They've made changes because people weren't happy with the initial rollout and they did pivot and add an option that might appeal to more people or different people. Bilt itself is framing this as, hey, we're listening to our customers, some of the other credit cards, blogs and other podcasts out there. We won't say their names, but they have also been framing it that way, saying, wow, isn't it great that Bilt is listening to their customers? I hope that is the case. Charitable Sally says that is the case. However, Pessimistic Sally is very skeptical about this and I'm not so confident. It's about listening to their customers. As they saw all the pitchforks and they were like, we gotta do something.

[Megan Coyle]

The customers have to do what's best for them. So Built can make all these changes and if it's still not beneficial to you, then it is totally okay to opt out, to not focus on earning these built points if you don't want to and you don't need to. If you are happy with your credit card mix right now, that's something to keep in mind.

[Sally French]

Yeah. So you know, we talked about whether or not we would get these. Well, whether I would get these cards. What you were going to do with your current Wells Fargo version of the card, Megan and I think where I stand is I'm just going to wait and see. I'm not going to rush into to this. Bilt has made so many changes in the past week that I do want to see how this all shakes out. Of course, over 7% return on my spending is so enticing that I am not looking away. But I'm also going to wait and stick with my 2.67% earning card in the meantime.

[Megan Coyle]

And I'm going to use every single day until January 30th to figure out what I should do. I'm going to run the numbers Again, good luck, Megan.

[Sally French]

Okay, let's run through the earning rates and some of the benefits of each card real quick. Let's just ignore the BILT cash and housing payments thing for now. The earning structure besides that is quite simple. For the BILT Blue card, it is one point per dollar spent on everything, which is fine.

[Megan Coyle]

That's great if you want to get access to BILT transfer partners for $0, but you probably won't accumulate a lot of points that way.

[Sally French]

Then There is the $95 annual fee BILT Obsidian card. That is the one that earns 2x on travel 3x bonus categories. So you can choo dining or groceries. Groceries has that $25,000 a year maximum limit as I mentioned. I am interested because I'm getting the 2.67% on groceries right now.

[Megan Coyle]

I've also heard a lot of comparisons from this card to the Chase Sapphire Preferred card. They have the same annual fee. The Chase Sapphire Preferred has 3x on dining. Similarly, it also gets 2 points per dollar on travel booked outside of Chase's travel portal and a lot of similar transfer partners including Hyatt, Southwest, United, Marriott, Virgin, Air Canada. You know, the list goes on.

[Sally French]

Chase Sapphire Preferred does have some other compelling bonus categories. They have bonus categories for select streaming services and online grocery delivery. I'm not an online grocery shopper, but if you are, that can be compelling. There's also a $50 hotel credit and primary car rental coverage, which I do really like that benefit. The BILT Obsidian has secondary car rental coverage though. I will throw that in there.

[Megan Coyle]

Another similarity between the old Chase Sapphire Preferred and this build card is that the built points are worth 1.25 cents each if you redeem them for flights or hotels in the built travel portal. Remember those days when you could get 1.25 cents for your chase points in the travel portal?

[Sally French]

Rip points. Boo. Yeah.

[Megan Coyle]

So this card, the Built Obsidian card, actually all the three cards earn that 1.25 cents redemption rate in the travel portal for build. But I just find that really interesting. Like you really miss that redemption rate. If that was the way you were using your points, you could possibly get that again with this Obsidian card.

[Sally French]

We also got to talk about these statement credits. We have talked a lot on this show about all these bougie little statement credits that are honestly annoying to spend because it'll be in a hundred dollar hotel credit but it's gonna expire and you gotta remember to use it and all of this and you gotta book through the portal. So this card has a Hotel credit as well. Going back to the Chase FR Preferred, they've got that 50 doll credit. The built Obsidian card has an $100 hotel credit. This one also has a two night minimum, which I find very annoying. It's also not $100 up front. It is $50 split into each half of the year.

[Megan Coyle]

This part I really don't like about it. I find the Chase Sapphire Preferred hotel Credit very easy to use because there's no minimum for how many nights. I literally use it every year for one single night at an airport hotel. That's just like what it was meant for, I feel like.

[Sally French]

Fair enough. There's also the 495 DOL fee built Palladium card. That one earns two built points per dollar on all purchases outside of of course the mortgage rent payments. Like we have been saying. I think this is pretty similar to the Capital One Venture X card which I am a fan of, as you know. And our colleague Ben did write a very compelling article about the two. We will link to that in the episode description.

[Megan Coyle]

It's a really good rundown. The two points per dollar is the huge selling point on this card because you accumulate points very quickly.

[Sally French]

We also got to talk about lounges. You know, I love lounges and the Capital One lounges are so far superior. The Built Palladium card does give you and two guests complimentary access to Priority Pass lounges. I think we've said this a lot on the show, but these lounges are super hit or miss. Usually super crowded. Usually you're like, thank you for this Diet Coke and cube of cheese. Whereas the Capital One lounges are like, we got caviar. So I'm not super excited about the Priority Pass benefit on the Palladium card.

[Megan Coyle]

Right. And we should mention that the Capital One Venture X card will get you complimentary access to those Capital One lounges we love so much. But I will say the two guests for Priority Pass lounges is pretty sweet.

[Sally French]

Yes, that's true. And remember, Capital One is changing its guest access policy for the Capital Inventor X card coming up so soon. That is February 1st. They will now charge for Priority Pass guests.

[Megan Coyle]

So if you do want to bring, you know, your whole family, like, you know, I love to bring my whole family. My Capital One venture.

[Sally French]

You're the goon who's bringing in 12 people on one card.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. Then this card might actually work better for families or people who are just traveling with people a lot. But again, like, do you really want to bring them to a Priority Pass lounge? Like Maybe not in the U.S. i don't know. Depends what yours looks like at your airport.

[Sally French]

And then also going back to all these coupon book credits that are very stressful to use, the Built Palladium card has its own set of those. There is a $400 hotel credit that is again split into half for the first and half for the second half of the year. So $200 per half of a year. They also give you $200 in built cash annually. So again that's what you're using to pay for these random merchants that Bilt has decided you can spend your built cash on Shadowberries similar to the Capital One Venture X's travel credit and their 10,000 mile anniversary bonus. If you use the hotel credit and the $200 in built cash. If you seriously are taking all these lifts or doing all these various classes, you can make up for the annual fee based on that alone. We also got to mention the sign up Bonus. It is 50,000 built points plus automatic gold status after spending $4,000 on everyday purchases in the first three months. Plus you get $300 of built cash. Reminder, since NerdWallet values built points at 1.8 cents apiece, I'll just do the math for you. That bonus is worth twelve hundred dollars.

[Megan Coyle]

So we did all of that. And remember, on top of all of that, every single purchase that's not rent or mortgage payment earns the 4% cash back. So even when you don't think about the mortgage and rent payments part of this, these are really decent earning rates.

[Sally French]

We do need to talk about Bilt transfer partners. We have been getting Alaska a lot of love on this show but we should mention a few of the others. What else do you use this for?

[Megan Coyle]

Ooh, a strong list of Bilt transfer partners here. My favorite of them is World of Hyatt. They are also transfer partner of Chase Ultimate Rewards and and I have used World of Hyatt points for a bunch of hotels I've stayed at recently, including an all inclusive in Big Sur just last month. So.

[Sally French]

Oh, I saw that.

[Megan Coyle]

That was really fun.

[Sally French]

Shout out Alila thank you for not inviting me Megan.

[Megan Coyle]

Sorry, it was supposed to be a romantic weekend away. I thought my boyfriend was gonna propose but he didn't. I was like and he has been.

[Sally French]

Put on blessed on the Built podcast episode. Does he listen?

[Megan Coyle]

Don't worry, yeah, he'll listen. And he knows. He knows he's already been getting a.

[Narrator/Host]

Lot of.

[Sally French]

For it. What are the other bill transfer partners?

[Megan Coyle]

They also have Japan Airlines at a really good one to one transfer ratio. United, Southwest, a lot of the major hotel programs, ihg, Marriott, Hilton and a lot of those great international airline partners that you can use those to book cheaper domestic flights even or better international redemptions. So Avianca flying blue for KLM in Air France, Air Canada. These are not all of them. Sally, you're the one who, who updated that story with the big list.

[Sally French]

So I wanted to make you name them.

[Megan Coyle]

You were very familiar.

[Sally French]

The one that we really got to hammer home though is Atmos Rewards. And I know there's a lot of listeners out there who say I don't even fly Alaska. Alaska does not fly out of my airport. I don't care. But Megan, why should they care?

[Megan Coyle]

Atmos rewards has some of the best rates on lights in the one world alliance and they fly a ton of places. If you are trying to get to Asia, Atmos rewards program has tons of different redemption options there that are very affordable. And I want to say, you know, Alaska Airlines and their partner Hawaiian Airlines, they're both in this loyalty program. A lot of people think that these are very west coast heavy airlines, but I have been able to book some really excellent award flights for other people that live on the east coast. So my dad and I went on a trip together. I used Alaska points to book him a flight from, from Wilmington, North Carolina to Dublin, Ireland. We did not touch the west coast at all.

[Sally French]

You know, and he also did not do this on an Alaska plane. I'm assuming you were on another airline. You just booked it on these Atmos rewards points.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. So I used Atmos rewards points to book him premium economy on American Airlines. And sure, it's not the fanciest thing ever, but it was 35,000 at most rewards points. American was charging 90,000 points for that same receipt.

[Sally French]

Suffice to say, we love built transfer partners.

[Megan Coyle]

Yes.

[Sally French]

So, Megan, I kind of feel like I'm sold. Should I get one of these built cards?

[Megan Coyle]

I don't know. What do you think after hearing all the math? I mean, as a mortgage payer yourself.

[Sally French]

Yeah.

[Megan Coyle]

Would you be interested in earning a couple more points that you could transfer to Alaska or Hyatt or any of these other partners?

[Sally French]

Yes. Because it seems like the overall rate is much higher and I really hate how they make you screw around with this very complicated built cash built reward system. I hate having built cash that I can only spend on certain things. I will not be the person who super optimizes it to get that full value because I don't even value a $40 bearings class at $40. Right. It's like negative $40 if I gotta work out. But I do like the idea of still getting some value and then also paying my mortgage with it to get get some additional value. Not as much as what the super maximizers could and shout out super maximizers. I know they listen to the show. If that is you, I love that. I love that for you. It is, though, a lot of work. And it's not work that I'm willing to put in, but if it is work that you are able to put in, then that is amazing and go for it. I just always say there is an opportunity cost to your own mental gymnastics and your mental sanity of remembering to spend this money. Absolutely.

[Megan Coyle]

And I also think it's fine to say, you know, there's a limit to how much mental gymnastics you're willing to do. If you do not want any part of this and you don't need access to these transfer partners, then that's fine. Opt out of built 2.0. You do not have to get a card. You could join the program and just earn points without getting one of these build cards. So that's always an option. I also think you have to think about how these cards might fit into your entire wallet.

[Sally French]

Right.

[Megan Coyle]

Like, I'm okay doing the tracking necessary to get get maximum value out of my Amex Platinum, for example. A card that we talk about a lot on this show has all these different credits I have to use by all these different dates. That kind of stuff I'm willing to do. Am I willing to spend my built cash for a bunch of Lyft credits all the time? I don't know. I have a car, so I don't even use Lyft that much. So I think it's okay to say, hey, I'm already paying a lot of annual fees for something else. I'm already tracking a lot of things for something else. So I might not go with the Palladium card even if it does have such a high rewards rate. You know what I mean?

[Sally French]

So, Megan, you currently have the Wells Fargo version of the card and you have to choose what you're going to do next. You have to choose one of these three cars or maybe just ditch entirely. What are you thinking?

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, my goodness. I am really in a dilemma here. We've done so much work in the past week on this built 2.0 launch, and I am attracted to the signup offer 50,000 built points plus the built cash on the Built Palladium card. That Seems reasonable to me. I also think I could do the Obsidian card and like I said, get the grocery bonus because I don't have a card that does that right now. So I'm between those two for me personally and I. We'll see where we end up. Check back in in two weeks. I have until January 30th to choose a new card or get out of built 2.0. And if I do it by January 30th, the transition will be a little bit easier. You get to keep your card number, which is convenient, and there won't be any hard credit inquiries. So if you are also a built World Elite MasterCard holder, just be aware of that date. It's coming up soon.

[Sally French]

Wow. All right. And listeners, I want to hear from you. And we have heard from some listeners not yet about Build because this episode just came out, but we have a great listener question from actually one of our producers, Hillary. She was traveling to Greece in May with her mom and she has a ton of Delta sky miles and Capital One miles. She wants to know what is the best way to get to Greece on her miles.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay. I'm a huge advocate for traveling with your parents. After that trip I went on, I have my dad. So that's gonna be really sweet, sweet. Hillary, for you, I would look at the Capital One transfer bonus to Avianca that's running right now through February 12, and you could transfer your Capital One miles to Avianca to book Turkish Airlines for 34,000 miles in economy with just one stop in Istanbul. So that's decent if you're okay with an economy seat. And then I think if she's trying to book like business or something nice for her and her mom, I would maybe wait a little bit longer to find some of those better redemptions. I'm thinking Emirates or Air Canada might offer some really well priced business class redemptions to Greece.

[Sally French]

I will also give a shout out to the episode that we did with Craig on Points transfer tools. Because I am a recent convert, I have found so many great flights using these tools. These are things like points. Yeah. Where you can just type in where you want to go. So Greece or wherever you're headed, Hillary, and you can enter in the currency that you have. So Capital One miles or whatever you've got, and they will show you all sorts of flights. So rather than having to go on Avianca individually and look for their flights or Turkish Airlines individually, I am a.

[Narrator/Host]

Convert for these tools.

[Sally French]

I know these tools do have fees. They're like $10 or $20. My time is worth so much more than 10 or $20. So I just want to give a shout out to something like points. Yeah, listen to our show about points tools because that is really where I think you'll find the best redemptions.

[Megan Coyle]

Hillary and Sally, do you have any tips for Greece? You were just there, right?

[Sally French]

I was just there, but I did not fly there. I flew to Turkey and I flew there using other miles. So my other. Okay. Actually thank you for asking because my tip is that if you are going to Greece, you don't necessarily need to fly to Greece. I would say if you are going to Greece, fly to the cheapest place in Europe that you can get to that is then easy to get to Greece. So maybe you fly into Rome and then you can get an easy route from Rome onwards to Greece. And that would be be so much better than trying to stretch yourself to get to Athens because I know Athens does not have a ton of international flights.

[Megan Coyle]

In fact, I think this trick is called the Greek islands trick, Sally, the one you just described.

[Sally French]

You're right, you're right. It's like fly somewhere close.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. And then book a cheap flight to get to where you really want to go. And maybe it might be one of the Greek islands. Who knows. All right, if you also want your question answered on the show, send us an email travelerdwallet.com we also just started posting on Smart Travel Pod on Instagram and TikTok, so follow us there. And we're watching our DMs so I guess you could send us a message there as well.

[Sally French]

You definitely can. We want to hear from you. You can send a voice memo. Tell us how you feel about Bilt. We want to know. We have been posting tons of videos about Built on our Instagram and TikTok. So you can also just comment your thoughts on Built and then everyone can see them. So that would also be super fun if you do that, of course. Also make sure to follow Smart traffic travel on your favorite podcast app that includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts and iHeartRadio. That way you can automatically download new episodes and if you are listening to the show on Spotify, you can comment on this specific episode right in the app.

[Megan Coyle]

This episode was produced by Tess Viglin and Nick Kharisimi mixed our audio. A big thank you to Claire Stosi and Hilary Georgie. They fact checked this at the very last minute and helped us get all of these built things right. So thank you so much.

[Sally French]

And of course our disclaimer. We are not financial or investment advisors. This info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes. It may not apply to your specific circumstances.

[Megan Coyle]

We hope you're inspired to keep your passport full and your wallet even fuller. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you next time.

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