Smart Travel: Upgrade Your Getaways

Episode: Cash or Miles? The 2025 Points Valuations That Could Change How You Travel

Hosts: Megan Coyle & Sally French
Guest: Craig Joseph (NerdWallet Travel expert)
Date: September 3, 2025

Episode Overview

In this deep-dive episode, Megan, Sally, and NerdWallet colleague Craig Joseph unravel the intricacies of 2025’s updated points and miles valuations—critical numbers that can dramatically affect how you plan, book, and budget travel in the next year. Packed with real-world examples, fresh airline news, and actionable strategies, the episode empowers travelers to maximize the value of every point and mile, make smarter redemptions, and avoid common traps—especially amid dynamic program changes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recent Airline Loyalty News & Partnerships

• Southwest and EVA Air Partnership (02:02)
  • Southwest now partners with EVA Air (Taiwan), in addition to Icelandair and China Airlines. This “interline agreement” enables easier U.S. to Asia bookings for travelers in non-hub cities (Phoenix example).
  • Sally on EVA Air: "The number one thing I know about EVAIR is their Hello Kitty planes."
• Frontier Promotion Wars (03:34)
  • Frontier is pushing companion certificates and elite status matches targeted at Southwest customers, but watch for numerous fees and a $69 application charge for status matches.
  • Sally’s take: "That airline is Jemenis with all of its fees."
• JetBlue-Condor Points Redemptions (05:44)
  • New opportunity to book Condor's distinctive “striped” planes (Germany-based airline) with JetBlue points.
  • Redemptions are “quite good”—e.g., business class New York-Frankfurt for 54,000 points.
  • JetBlue is a transfer partner of almost all major credit card points (except Bilt), but not always at 1:1 ratios.
  • Pro tip: Prefer Chase or Citi points for better transfer ratios to JetBlue.

2. 2025 Points & Miles Valuations—How and Why They Matter

• Defining the Value of Points/Miles (09:29)
  • Points/miles are “monopoly money”—not directly cash, but can be compared to cash via redemption values.
  • Craig defines valuation as:
    “We come up with a point value by comparing the cash cost of a flight or hotel stay with the number of points it would require for the same booking.” (09:29)
• Why Valuations Are Useful (11:16)
  • Comparison Across Programs: Understand whether, for example, Hyatt points are more valuable than Hilton.
  • Optimize Redemptions: Helps decide whether to pay with points or cash.
  • Signup Bonuses: Valuations reveal if bonuses offset annual fees.
    • Example: 100,000-point Alaska Atmos card bonus at 1.2 cents/point = $1,200, easily outweighing a $395 fee.
      “At least for the first year, that's a big boon and that I should be thinking about signing up.” —Craig (12:25)
• Incorporating Fees into Valuations (13:35)
  • Out-of-pocket fees can tip the scales; British Airways Avios often unappealing due to huge Heathrow surcharges.
  • Craig: “To fly through London Heathrow, you're paying exorbitant fees that almost make it never worth it." (13:35)

3. How NerdWallet Calculates Point Values (14:23)

• Valuations represent the median value across a massive dataset—avoiding outlier bias.

• Tools: Free calculators at NerdWallet allow personalized redemption calculations using current valuations.

  “We're just taking the data and picking the number right in the middle." —Craig (15:28)

4. Credit Card Points: Which Programs Are Most Valuable in 2025?

• Chase Ultimate Rewards (Value: 1.8 cents/point – via Hyatt)
  • Best value almost always via transfer to Hyatt.
    • Megan: "I've been able to get a lot of luxury stays at Hyatts for like 40,000 points a night." (19:16)
• Amex Membership Rewards (Value: 1.4 cents/point)
  • Top uses: Transfer to ANA (Japan) and Virgin Atlantic (Europe) but requires learning international award programs.
• Capital One Miles (Value: 1.6 cents/point—Avianca)
  • Avianca gives best value, especially for Star Alliance partner flights (e.g., United).
• Citi ThankYou Points (Value: 1.6 cents/point)
  • Citi uniquely enables American Airlines transfers (1.3 cents/point for American).
  • Lower ratios for no-fee cards: "It's at a lower ratio. It's 1 to 0.7... You might want to avoid all of that." —Megan (08:08)
• Bilt Rewards (Value: 1.8 cents/point—Hyatt or Alaska Airlines)
  • Bilt is the sole transfer option to Alaska Airlines outside its own cards/flights.

5. Hotel Points: Striking Value Disparities

• Hyatt: 1.8 cents/point – Outpaces all competitors by a substantial margin.
• Hilton: 0.4 cents/point – Often distributes more points but very low redemption value.
• *Others (Marriott, Choice, Wyndham): Totter in the middle at 0.6 to 0.8 cents/point.
  • Craig: "If you can earn two Hilton points for every Hyatt point...then you basically just doubled the valuation." (28:28)
• Redemption Realities: A World of Difference
  • “I tried to use Hilton points in Seoul…like 210,000 points per night.” —Craig (19:31)
  • “If there's a Hilton hotel at a location you want to go, but there's not a Hyatt, those Hyatt points really aren't worth anything." —Craig (29:01)

6. Airline Points: Domestic vs. International, and Premium Cabin Sweet Spots

• Domestic Airlines: No standouts; values tightly clustered between 1.2–1.4 cents/point.
  • JetBlue: 1.4, Southwest/American: 1.3, United: 1.2.
• International Airlines:
  • Valuations vary by desired routes—ANA for Japan, Virgin Atlantic for Europe.
• Premium Cabins:
  • Massive outsized value. Example: Alaska miles for Finnair business class—9 cents/point value for a $5,000 flight (vs. 1.2 cents/point baseline).
    • Craig: “I never would pay $5,000 for an airline seat. But that gave me a redemption value at around 9 cents per point...” (31:50)

7. Dynamic Award Charts, Devaluations, and Redemption Timing

• Dynamic Pricing: Airlines/hotels adjust redemption costs based on demand; fewer static “award charts.”
• 2025 Devaluations:
  • Chase Ultimate Rewards travel portal: Now $0.01/point baseline unless a rare “Points Boost” applies (previously up to 1.5 cents).
  • Southwest Points: Dropped from 1.6 to 1.3 cents/mile.
  • “Consolidation” among U.S. airline program values—all closely aligned, little outlier value now.
• Last-Minute Bookings:
  • Award flights booked within 15 days often deliver ~20% better value—airlines reduce award prices to fill remaining seats.
    • Megan: “One of my favorite travel hacks is...keep looking, even for award bookings...and rebook at less points.” (36:27)
    • Caution: Different airlines have varying policies for redepositing points on cancellations. Points may not return instantly.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Phantom Value:
  “Points and miles are monopoly money. They’re made up currency, right? You can’t exchange them for cash, but you can use them to buy things that have a cash value…” — Craig (09:29)

• Why Points Valuations Are Crucial:
  “It was a huge unlock for me…It just makes the decision tree so much easier about whether or not to book with your points or did you find a good deal.” — Megan (10:57)

• On Award Fees Crushing Good Deals:
  “To fly through London Heathrow, you’re paying exorbitant fees that almost make it never worth it.” — Craig (13:35)

• Premium Cabin Redemptions:
  “I sat in business class. 60,000 points got me a business class seat...would have been over a $5,000 cash price…I got 9 cents in value per point.” — Craig (31:50)

• Travel “Hot Takeoff” Segment:
  “Airport lounges…are vastly overrated. They’re often overcrowded…The mediocre food and average drinks and sterile ambiance combined with questionable cleanliness decrease the value.” — Craig (39:38) “My days of arm wrestling somebody for cheese cubes in line at the Priority Pass Lounge are over.” — Craig (40:42)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Real-life “cash or miles?” calculation | 00:39 | | Airline partnership/news roundup (EVA, Frontier, JetBlue-Condor) | 01:47–07:39 | | Overview of points valuations methodology | 09:12–14:23 | | How to use valuations in practice | 15:19–16:33 | | Credit card points valuations (Chase, Amex, Citi, Capital One, Bilt)| 17:20–26:46 | | Hotel points: Hyatt vs. Hilton, Marriott, IHG | 27:11–29:01 | | Airline points: Domestic vs. International, Premium redemptions| 29:12–31:50 | | Devaluations and 2025 landscape | 32:04–33:58 | | Last-minute award bookings & cancellation caveats| 35:12–37:31 | | Philosophies on earning, saving, and spending points | 38:03–39:06 | | Travel "Hot Takeoff" – Airport lounge rant | 39:38–40:47 |

Takeaways for Smart Travelers

• Run the Numbers: Before redeeming points or miles, compare against current valuations and ever-changing fees.
• Pick Partners Wisely: Chase→Hyatt and Bilt→Hyatt/Alaska offer highest value.
• Dynamic is Here to Stay: Be nimble—award charts are rare, redemption prices bounce with demand.
• Premium Cabins = Jackpots, with Caveats: They offer outsized value—if you can snag them.
• Cancellations Require Caution: Not all points post back instantly; check your program’s terms.
• Airport Lounge Reality Check: Don’t overhype the lounge experience—sometimes your own snacks and a quiet corner beat the “premium” crowds.

If you want to master your travel budget and make your points work smarter, keep your eyes on the current valuations, grab those program sweet spots, and remember: sometimes the cash is just better in your pocket.