How to Travel Without Paying for a Hotel: Inside Home Swapping and Pet Sitting Apps

Summary

Podcast Summary: Smart Travel: Upgrade Your Getaways

Episode: How to Travel Without Paying for a Hotel: Inside Home Swapping and Pet Sitting Apps
Hosts: Sally French & Meghan Coyle (NerdWallet Travel Experts)
Release Date: May 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into ways savvy travelers can avoid hotel costs by leveraging home swapping and pet sitting apps. Hosts Sally French and Meghan Coyle discuss the mechanics, costs, pros, and real-world experiences of both home swapping (via platforms like Kindred, HomeExchange, and People Like Us) and home/pet sitting (TrustedHousesitters), with extended interviews from two travelers who regularly use these services. The episode also covers related travel news and includes “hot takes” and practical advice on maximizing every travel dollar without compromising comfort or safety.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recent Rewards & Travel Industry News

(02:21 – 15:44)

• Rove Miles & Air Canada Aeroplan Partnership

  • Rove Miles, a credit card-free rewards platform, added Aeroplan as a transfer partner.
  • [03:33] “You earn miles on your online spending... Sometimes you can earn these miles at really high rates.” – Meghan
  • 25% transfer bonus through June 6; Aeroplan’s award chart changes June 1 (book soon!).

• JetBlue Premier Card Upgrades

  • New elite status boost, companion pass, and a higher 15% points rebate on award flights.
  • $300 in travel portal credits more accessible than previous $50 increments.
  • [08:28] “Now if you spend $300, you get that $300 credit.” – Megan

• JD Power 2026 Airline Satisfaction Study

  • Airline satisfaction is up despite delays, cancellations, and rising fees.
  • [09:41] “It is just the basics, like better passenger communication, friendlier staff...” – Megan
  • JetBlue, Delta, and Southwest recognized for top service in respective categories.

• IHG Summer Promotion

  • “Choose Your Adventure” bonus points offer for stays May 20 – Aug 31.
  • Tip: Register before your stay to earn points.

• Hotel Demand for FIFA World Cup

  • Massive room blocks released due to underwhelming demand, resulting in potentially cheaper hotel rates.
  • [17:16] “Kansas City...85 to 90% of properties...said bookings are behind.” – Sally

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2. Making Lodging Free: Home Swapping & Pet Sitting Apps

(21:23 – 68:09)

Why Focus on Alternative Lodging?

• Lodging is typically the biggest travel expense, especially for longer trips.
• Alternatives like house swapping and pet sitting can result in massive savings.
• [22:13] “Lodging is often the most expensive part of any trip, especially if you’re going for more than a night or two.” – Megan

Home Swapping — How It Works

(Kindred, HomeExchange, People Like Us, Facebook Groups, etc.)

• Classic method: Equal house swap on the same dates.
• Modern platforms introduce point and credit systems for more flexibility.
• [24:08] “As always, there is always a risk of letting strangers stay in your home or you staying at a stranger's home.” – Megan
• Insurance considerations and checking tenancy agreements are important, especially for renters.

Platform Fee Structures:

• HomeExchange: $235/year, unlimited swaps.

• People Like Us: $159/year, unlimited swaps.

• Kindred: No annual fee, but charges a nightly service and cleaning fee.

• [25:48] “A lot of these platforms will give you credits if you host someone, but it doesn’t have to be a one-to-one exchange.” – Megan

• Platform vetting/background checks add some peace of mind.

• Service fees may cover background checks, insurance, and the cost of professional cleaning.

In-Depth Interview: Bob Krinsky (Kindred Superhost)

(27:30 – 50:14)

• Bob’s Perspective:
  • Loves building community, prefers “living like a local.”
  • [28:04] “Kindred is a home swapping community that is an app...unlike any other experience in travel I’ve ever had.”
  • Emphasizes the connection, gratitude, and guest/host etiquette over mere financial savings.
  • Cost example: 11 nights in downtown San Francisco for $675 plus 11 Kindred points.
• How Kindred Works:
  • Cleaning fee and modest service fee (e.g., $330 for three nights).
  • Points gained for each night you host; one point per night regardless of home quality.
  • Profiles include photos and even intro videos to build trust.
• Host Experience:
  • [37:03] “I put fresh flowers out...wrote a five-page handwritten note...wanted her to feel super welcome and well taken care of in my home.”
  • Connections can even result in real-life meetups and ongoing friendships.
  • Most hosts/guests never meet in person, but video chats are optional.
  • Tips for hosts: Small personalized touches (notes, local coffee, chocolates, recommendations) enhance guest experience.
• Local Experiences & Recommendations:
  • Swapping enables deeper local immersion and neighborly interaction.
  • [48:34] “...these little moments of connection and kindness and generosity...go a long way to nourishing my soul.”

In-Depth Interview: Robert Barkley (TrustedHousesitters Host)

(51:41 – 68:09)

• Robert’s Situation:
  • Uses TrustedHousesitters to find vetted global travelers to stay at his Asheville home and watch his dog.
  • No cash exchanged; sitters stay for free in exchange for pet/house care.
  • [55:29] “It saves us money boarding the dog or paying a house sitter or a dog sitter. And it is a benefit to the sitter...it’s really a win-win.”
• Selection Process:
  • $200/year membership, background checks, in-depth vetting, interviews via FaceTime.
  • Prefers newly retired couples with animal experience.
• Extra Perks:
  • Offers access to his car (not all insurance covers this, so double-check).
  • Sitters get full use of home, local recommendations, even museum memberships.
  • [57:49] “…they normally come a day beforehand…then they take us to the airport the next day in our car. The sit begins, and then when we come back, they pick us up.”
  • Friendships often develop with repeat or long-term sitters.
  • Cleaning standards enforced by courtesy and strong mutual reviews.
  • [62:51] “...this whole program has sort of reminded me that there’s still kindness in this world through house sitting.”
• Costs & Logistics:
  • Estimates $60–$80/day for traditional paid sitting.
  • Stays can last from a week to two months, making it perfect for extended travel.
• Emotional Takeaway:
  • The peace of mind is invaluable.
  • “Bonnie”—the dog—sometimes bonds so much with sitters that she spends nights with them instead!

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3. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• [29:50] Bob Krinsky: “It’s extremely low cost travel while staying in the comfort of somebody’s home that feels like you are a guest… It just makes it so much more about the connection and the community than a transaction.”
• [32:55] Bob Krinsky: “That has translated to tens of thousands of dollars that I have saved.”
• [57:12] Robert Barkley: “They fly in, we pick them up at the airport…take us to the airport, sit begins…when we come back, they pick us up. Everybody’s FBI background checked, so my dad thinks we’re nuts for doing this.”
• [62:51] Robert Barkley: “...this whole program has sort of reminded me that there’s still kindness in this world through house sitting.”
• [48:56] Bob Krinsky’s Hot Take: “Whenever you’re done packing, you can take half of what’s in your suitcase out and you’ll be fine.”

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4. Tips & Takeaways

• For New Hosts/Travelers:

  • Always check insurance policies and landlord agreements before hosting or swapping.
  • Use platforms for background checks, mediation, and security.
  • Be clear on house rules, and set communication requirements for peace of mind.
  • Add personal touches—local recommendations, welcome snacks, handwritten notes—improve the experience for all.

• For Pet Owners:

  • Trusted pet/house-sitting is far less expensive, especially for long trips.
  • Develop relationships with sitters—repeat visits can offer extra trust.
  • Emotional bonds may form between pet and sitter but most pets readjust.

• For Home Swappers:

  • Evaluate platforms for cost effectiveness and community trust.
  • Service and cleaning fees are often worth the platform’s security and guest vetting.
  • The experience is as much about cultural exchange and new friendships as savings.

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5. Notable Segment Timestamps

• Rove Miles & Aeroplan Updates: 03:20 – 05:27
• JetBlue Card Upgrades: 05:33 – 09:09
• JD Power Airline Satisfaction: 09:09 – 12:20
• Home Swapping Intro: 21:23 – 22:38
• Home Swapping Platforms (fees, credits): 24:53 – 26:50
• Bob Krinsky Interview (Kindred): 27:30 – 50:14
• Robert Barkley Interview (TrustedHousesitters): 51:41 – 68:09
• Hot Takeoffs (Gift Card Gripes, Airplane Etiquette): 68:22 – 70:31

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Tone & Style

• Friendly, direct, and highly practical.
• The hosts use lots of banter and inject personal anecdotes.
• Guests emphasize warmth, connection, and hospitality.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a detailed, honest look at how resourceful travelers can forgo hotels for home swapping and pet sitting, saving thousands while enjoying unique, meaningful stays. It reinforces the idea that travel can be both affordable and extraordinary when built on trust, flexibility, and the tools of the sharing economy. Whether you want to save big, travel longer, or build new connections, the episode’s real-world experiences and platform recommendations make for an engaging, actionable guide to free or nearly-free lodging.

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Recommended if you:

• Want to save money on trips or travel long-term
• Value meaningful local experiences over generic hotels
• Have a pet or a home you can leverage for travel savings
• Prefer real stories and practical advice over hype

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For more tips, episode links, and up-to-date offers, check the episode description or visit the platforms mentioned.

Transcript

[Megan Coyle]

This episode is sponsored by Fora. You already know how to find which neighborhoods to stay in, which hotels are worth the splurge, and how to piece together an itinerary. You've been thinking like a travel advisor for years, so why not get paid for it? Fora is a modern travel agency built

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[Megan Coyle]

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[Megan Coyle]

As a Fora advisor, you'll get access

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to best in class training path, powerful booking tech and a vibrant global community of experts and fellow advisors sharing real insider knowledge to help you launch and

[Megan Coyle]

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And with access to more than 7,000 preferred travel partners, from iconic brands to boutique gems, you'll unlock VIP perks like upgrades, resort credits and late checkout that regular travelers simply don't get.

[Megan Coyle]

Every hotel, cruise or activity you book

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[Megan Coyle]

Getting started can be as easy as

[Sponsor Voice]

booking trips for people you already know. Now's the time to finally turn your passion for travel into a fulfilling business with Fora. Become a Fora advisor [e-mail] smart travel that's F O R A travel.com smart travel and make sure you tell them we sent you for a travel.com smart travel the following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by NerdWallet's editorial team.

[Megan Coyle]

Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt. You've heard me talk about Bilt as

[Sponsor Voice]

the loyalty program that lets you earn points on rent wherever you live, and they've just leveled up even more. You can as of 2026, renters and homeowners can earn up to 1.25x points on their housing payments. This is thanks to Bilt's three new credit cards, the Palladium Card, Obsidian Card and Blue Card. All three can turn your housing payments, rent or mortgage into flexible rewards, so you can choose the card that fits your lifestyle without missing out on points and exclusive benefits. Bill points can be redeemed at top airlines and hotels, Amazon.com purchases, future rent payments and more. Built points have also been ranked by top publications as the industry's most valuable point currency. Your housing payment is most likely your biggest expense. Make it your most rewarding. Find the card that fits your lifestyle and apply today at joinbuilt.com smarttravel that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com smarttravel make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you terms and limitations apply subject to approval and eligibility. Bill cards are issued by column NA member FDIC pursuant to license from MasterCard International Incorporated.

[Megan Coyle]

Two Big Rewards Program updates this week. A program just unlocked a fan favorite transfer partner and one premium cards perks just got a whole lot better. Stay tuned to hear the details.

[Sally French]

And despite everything happening in the world right now, J.D. power says we are happier than ever with airlines. Yes, I am serious.

[Megan Coyle]

And later on, we're talking to two house swappers who are sharing how new platforms are helping them save money on lodging, pet sitters, and even transportation to the airport.

[Sally French]

A lot to get to today, so let's do it.

[Megan Coyle]

Welcome to Smart Travel from NerdWallet, a deep dive into the tips, tools and tactics to maximize your travel dollars. I'm Megan Coyle.

[Sally French]

And I'm Sally French.

[Megan Coyle]

And we're the travel nerds ready to help you plan your next big trip.

[Sally French]

But first, that disclaimer. This episode we will talk about credit cards and if you are Nerd Wallet partners. However, that does not influence how we discuss them. The benefits, terms and fees mentioned were accurate at the time of posting, but things can change. Some offers may have expired by the time you're listening. For the latest details, follow the links in the episode description.

[Megan Coyle]

First up, Rove Miles, the shopping and travel platform just added Air Canada's aeroplan program as its newest transfer partner.

[Sally French]

Megan, y' all are talking about Rove a lot lately, and you're gonna have to remind me what the appeal of this all is.

[Megan Coyle]

I know, Sally, we're gonna do the whole episode on it soon, I swear. Okay, so for right now, Rove is a rewards program, but you don't need a credit card for it. You, you earn miles on your online spending, usually shopping, hotel and flight bookings, that kind of thing. And sometimes you can earn these miles at really high rates. And then you can redeem Rove miles either directly through the Rove platform or transfer those miles out to airline and hotel partners. Kind of like credit card rewards programs that we know and love.

[Sally French]

I will Admit I am 0% familiar with Rove, but I am very familiar with Air Canada and Air Aeroplan is a great one to add to that list. One of my favorite programs, I actually use them to book my flights out of Mauritius because you can use Airplane Points to book on Air Mauritius. So shout out Air Canada.

[Megan Coyle]

That's right. Aeroplan is one of the best Star alliance programs out there. So you can actually use aeroplan Points to book flights on United lufthansa and all the big Star alliance carriers and domestic flights within North America started just 6,000 points one way. And business class to Europe can be as low as 60,000 points.

[Sally French]

Amazing. That is so low. And they're running a bonus, I guess.

[Megan Coyle]

Yes. So for the new partner, they're running a 25% transfer bonus through June 6th. So if you transfer a thousand row of miles, you'd get 1250 Aeroplan points about. So those transfers are normally one to one. So this gives you a nice little boost.

[Sally French]

You said June 6th, although I think everyone needs to be booking by June 1st. Right?

[Megan Coyle]

You're totally right. Aeroplan is increasing the cost of some partner award redemption starting June 1st. So I would say if you have something in mind already, start looking at booking.

[Sally French]

Okay, you heard it here. Book now. It seems like everyone is raising award prices this year. Speaking of which, I will throw in my other reminder to book your Hyatt hotels before May 20, because that's when their new award chart goes into effect.

[Megan Coyle]

And we'll talk more about those Hyatt changes in next week's main segment. So.

[Sally French]

All right, tune in next week, people. Next up, the JetBlue Premier Card just rolled out a bunch of new and enhanced benefits.

[Megan Coyle]

Right. This is JetBlue's premium card, and it launched last year with a $499 annual fee. And the new perks are aimed squarely at those JetBlue loyalists who are ride or dies.

[Sally French]

All right, Megan, I've been out in Asia all week and been paying zero attention to any JetBlue changes. So how about you walk me through them?

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, so some of the new benefits, there is an Elite status boost. So cardholders now get 25 tiles toward mosaic status at the start of every calendar year. And that gets you halfway to the entry level Mosaic one status. And you don't have to fly a single mile. You're already halfway there. You also get rechecked bags, preferred seating, and the usual Elite status benefits.

[Sally French]

You know, and you don't technically even need to do any card spending to get the tiles. You just. They just show up if you got the card.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. And then there's also a new Companion Pass benefit. I feel like some people are really excited about this one. It requires a $15,000 spending minimum on the card in a calendar year, and then you unlock a Companion Pass that's worth up to 500 DOL. Also, if you spend $75,000 on the card in a year. Woo, big spenders. You unlock a second Companion Pass, and that One's worth up to $1,500.

[Sally French]

If you're spending $75,000 on the card, is that really moving the needle for you making that $1,500 companion pass?

[Megan Coyle]

I know, honestly, that seems like too much work to like maximize it. You know what I mean? I just. I think I'll stick with trying to earn the first level Companion Pass.

[Sally French]

I almost feel like you could just spend all your money on another card that earns a higher rewards rate. Unless you're really spending that much money on JetBlue. And, you know, we've had people on the show who maybe are.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay. And then the third update, this one's pretty cool. The redemption rebate is now 15% back on award flights. That's up from 10%. So what this was is when you booked a JetBlue award flight or a partner award flight with JetBlue points, you'll now get 15% of those points back. So it's pretty similar to Delta's TakeOff 15 perk, where cardholders get a 15% discount on award flights. So that is one of the best airline card perks out there, in my opinion. So I love the rewards rebates.

[Sally French]

Does this have one of those statement credit bunnies on this card as well?

[Megan Coyle]

Yes, it has. One of those. Card holders now get up to $300 a year for hotels, car rentals, cruises, anything booked through JetBlue's travel portal. And Sally, I know you hate those, like, travel credits that are super annoying to use.

[Sally French]

Gimme that coupon book, baby.

[Megan Coyle]

I know, serious. This one used to be up to $50, but you could get up to $250 back per year when you book through JetBlue's travel portal. But like $50, like what are you booking for $50? It just requires way too many transactions.

[Sally French]

Too much work for $50 away.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. So now if you spend $300, you get that $300 credit.

[Sally French]

You think the people at JetBlue are listening to our show and they know we complain about this?

[Megan Coyle]

I hope so, because keep making easier to use stuff. Statement credits, please.

[Sally French]

Okay, so what's the verdict? Do we like this card?

[Megan Coyle]

I think it could really work well for people who fly JetBlue a lot, especially out of the east coast because that's where their main hubs are.

[Sally French]

I wish I could fly JetBlue more, but they don't really have that many flights out of sfo.

[Megan Coyle]

Right.

[Sally French]

I think I fly them when I go to Florida and that's all.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, I kind of think of Them as like the East Coast Alaska.

[Sally French]

Yes, East Coast Alaska.

[Megan Coyle]

So if you only fly JetBlue occasionally, this call card is probably not for you. But they do have a cheaper JetBlue plus card and that one might still be right for you if you fly JetBlue occasionally.

[Sally French]

Next up, they say that people are not happy, but believe it or not, the people are happy. And not just happy, but very happy. And that is because JD Power released their 2026 North American Airline Satisfaction study and they found that airline satisfaction is way up.

[Megan Coyle]

I had to do a double take when I read this, honestly, because despite all the delays and cancellations and packed airports and the rising baggage fe passengers are apparently happier with airlines than they were last year. It's like kind of unthinkable.

[Sally French]

What do you think the reason for this is?

[Megan Coyle]

I am not too sure, but according to JD Power, it is just the basics, like better passenger communication, friendlier staff, and people feeling like they're getting better value for what they're paying. So the onboard experience scores in the survey were really strong. The pre flight and post flight experience scores were also very strong. So I think it's just kind of adjusting people's expectations and really letting them know, hey, your flight's delayed, here are your rebooking options right away, that kind of thing. I think airlines are just managing the expectations better and so people feel like they're getting it right.

[Sally French]

Yes. I think so much about happiness is just expectation setting. It's not necessarily was as the best. It's just did this match what I thought. And I've noticed airlines are so much better about communicating. If flights are delayed, even if they're delayed 10 minutes, I get text. So then even the expectation of like I have time to go to the bathroom, I was holding it and now I have time to go is like, that is helpful. That kind of stuff is nice. And then it's funny you said the pre flight experience. We talk about lounges so much. Do you think that's helping?

[Megan Coyle]

Maybe that's helping for sure. I also think maybe there have been so many reports about, you know, how long it's going to take at the airport to get from, you know, through security and those kinds of things that maybe people are just planning better and they're more at ease. Like if maybe they're getting to the airport earlier when we told them to get there earlier. I would like that.

[Sally French]

I know, I know. My friends still dunk on me for getting to the airport too early. I'm like, just you wait. Just you wait. All right, as far as the airline rankings, JetBlue ranked number one in first in business class for the second year in a row. I'm telling you, I wish I could fly JetBlue, get more flights out of SFO, people. Also, we love Delta. They took premium economy for the fourth straight year. And then this is wild. Hold on to your hats, people. Southwest 1 economy and basic economy for the fifth year in a row. This is even after all the changes they've made. You know what we're talking about? Adding checked bag fees, dropping open seating.

[Megan Coyle]

That really surprises me because I haven't heard a lot of people talking about how much they love Southwest anymore. After all these changes came through, I

[Sally French]

feel like everyone who whenever I say Southwest, they're like, they just got way worse.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah.

[Sally French]

And I agree.

[Megan Coyle]

But here is the catch. With all of these rankings, and J.D. power flagged this as well. They are not sure how long this satisfaction is going to last, especially with fuel prices rising, Bears climbing in response, the bag fees going up. It's going to get harder for airlines to keep delivering this value that travelers feel like they're getting out of their flights. So I'd be really surprised if we don't see all these numbers come down next year.

[Sally French]

I know. And I think especially the fuel prices rising means airfares are going to go up. In fact, I've been living on my little bubble. I'm sure the people know I've been largely off traveling for the past five weeks. I landed last night in San Francisco, and I saw gas prices were 670. Oh, my God. And I was like, oh, I know, I know. So I was like, what does this mean for airline prices? I'm so scared. So people enjoy all the good times while it lasts.

[Megan Coyle]

Luckily, you don't have a car, Sally.

[Sally French]

I know, I know. I was like, this is why I don't have a car.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, it's been scary. Okay, next up, some better news. IHG launched its big summer promotion, and there's still time to register. And the fun part of this one is that members get to choose how they earn points through this promotion.

[Sally French]

Ooh. Choose your own adventure style.

[Megan Coyle]

Right? So here are the two options. You can earn 2,000 bonus points every two nights or 8,000 bonus points every four nights. And there's no cap. You can stack these as many times as you want through the promotional window.

[Sally French]

Okay, my brain is a little off. I'm a little jet lagged. Which one is the better deal here?

[Megan Coyle]

I'd say the 8, 000 points per four nights option is a slightly better rate. Per night, you're earning 2, 000 points per night versus 1,000 per night on the shorter stay option. But like, if you're not someone who usually stays four nights, then that probably isn't the one for you. I personally am not one that does four nights at hotels regularly, so I would just do the shorter stay one.

[Sally French]

It sounds like you can pre register for the promo starting May 6 that already passed, so I hope y' all preregistered if you didn't. The actual promo period runs May 20 through August 31. This really is a summer long offer

[Megan Coyle]

and some important notes. One, you can still actually register during the promotional period, like after May 20, but you do have to register before you stay to get these bonus points. So you can't just like have a stay on May 20th and you haven't registered yet and expect to get those points. So make sure to sign up while

[Sally French]

you can register before you check in is what it sounds like, right? It's okay if you register before you book, right?

[Megan Coyle]

Yes, it's okay if you register before you.

[Sally French]

In fact, you should just before you check in. Okay, perfect.

[Megan Coyle]

And we should mention where you can use IHG points because I feel like some people aren't super familiar with them. You can use them at so many different brands, including Holiday Inn, Kimpton Intercontinental. There's a huge portfolio, and I think people might find some great sweet spots in there.

[Sally French]

Megan, you said you really like the Regent brand. Oh, you don't know Regent?

[Megan Coyle]

What is.

[Sally French]

God, I thought you said you liked Regent. They're an Aichi hotel. I stayed at one in Taipei. They had a very fancy breakfast buffet. But I say that because I swear to God you said that Regent was hella fancy. It was hella fancy if it's like grandma's house in year 1980, but it was not hella fancy for year 2026.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, okay, that's good to know. I mean, sometimes I like the grandma

[Sally French]

vibe, but it could be a one off that this is just one region. But I really. I booked one in Taipei because I thought it was going to be fancy and I was like, grandma fancy.

[Megan Coyle]

No, no.

[Sally French]

Anyway, it was fine. It was fine. Their breakfast buffet was excellent.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, sometimes the breakfast makes up for everything.

[Sally French]

All right, final news item for the week. This is a big one. The American Hotel and Lodging association just dropped a report on World cup hotel demand, and the headline is that bookings are coming in way below what hotels were expecting.

[Megan Coyle]

RIP this was a surprise, but not Really? I don't know. Tickets have been so expensive.

[Sally French]

Yes. And then also, what I was going to say is that I keep hearing that all these people from abroad don't want to come to the U.S. shocker. Shocker. So I'm like, why are they coming to the World cup if they don't want to come to the U.S. period?

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah.

[Sally French]

And sounds like they're not coming.

[Megan Coyle]

Also, a lack of information has also made me feel like, okay, maybe this isn't as popular as we all thought.

[Sally French]

I know.

[Megan Coyle]

Especially in Los Angeles. Like, I live in la and I haven't heard anything about the World cup in Los Angeles. Like, there's been some information about some things that they're doing to add public transportation, but besides that, it's really been like, crickets out here. So, Yeah, I feel like it's crickets.

[Sally French]

Like, no one's even talking about it. Like, when the super bowl was coming to sf, everyone was like, ah, Super Bowl. Everything is gonna be amazing. It's gonna be so lit. And it was so lit. I have heard exactly zero of my friends talking about the FIFA World Cup.

[Megan Coyle]

And the World cup kicks off soon. It's literally in just one month.

[Sally French]

And I wanted to do well. I want my friends to talk about World Cup. If you're talking about World cup, be my friend.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay. Yeah, exactly. Be Sally's friend.

[Sally French]

I need friends. Okay. And we should talk about, like, how bad it is. So close to 80% of the hotels in this survey said bookings are tracking below initial expectations. And some markets is really worse. Kansas City. I want Kansas City to do well. I like Kansas city. Shout out. Missouri, Shadow, Kansas side of Kansas City. 85 to 90% of properties in Kansas City said their bookings are behind. They're seeing a FIFA roadblock. Cancellations of 70 to 90% of originally contracted inventory.

[Megan Coyle]

Yikes. That's a lot. And you might have seen that there wasn't a lot of availability. And that's because FIFA had these room blocks, and now they're all coming back to the market. And the good thing is that might mean that with more availability, the prices might come down a little bit.

[Sally French]

I love the optimism. If you do want to go to the World cup, it sounds like you'd probably book one of those hotels that maybe was sold out for maybe not just a bookable price, but a really good price.

[Megan Coyle]

Some of the hotels also have their own theories about what's happening right now. And the hotels think that international visitors are concerned about visa barriers and those broader geopolitical concerns. That you just mentioned. So I think they are really concerned that the international visitors are the ones who are not going to come and book hotel rooms for the World Cup.

[Sally French]

And what I find really interesting about this, and I'm the same way, is people from international countries tend to spend more than domestic travelers. And I do this too. When I travel internationally. I'm like, just book the Uber. I don't want to mess around versus here in San Francisco. I'm like, no way. We are taking Bart for 90 minutes. We're not paying $30 for Uber. You really see international travelers willing to spend more. I buy way more souvenirs internationally, willing to splurge more a hotel internationally. And that's the case when international travelers come to the US as well. They spend roughly 1.7 times more than typical domestic tourists in the US and a third of them stay more than two weeks, which really means you're getting a lot of bang for the buck of those travelers.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, it's a long trip. They need to stay that long to make it worth it. So we'll keep an eye on this. I'm actually going to a World cup match, hopefully in about a month, so.

[Sally French]

Oh, yes. How much did you spend on tickets?

[Megan Coyle]

I spent about $310. Okay.

[Sally French]

That's a normal ticket price. All right.

[Megan Coyle]

I bought it on resale and I also use my subhub credit on the Chase Sapphire Reserve.

[Sally French]

Keep us posted on how that goes.

[Megan Coyle]

All right, that was it for this week's news. We'll be right back after this with more travel tips related to home swapping. Woo. See you soon. This episode is sponsored by Rakuten. Rakuten opens up a world of rewards. You can earn cash back on fashion,

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Megan Coyle]

But what I'm here to tell you is with Rakuten, you can get cash

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[Megan Coyle]

we know you're saving every way you can.

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[Megan Coyle]

Find that perfect hotel.

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[Megan Coyle]

Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt. You've heard me talk about Bilt as

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Megan Coyle]

Sally, it's time for a topic that is near and dear to my heart.

[Sally French]

Ooh, house swapping?

[Megan Coyle]

No.

[Sally French]

House sitting?

[Megan Coyle]

No. But we are talking about both of those in just a few minutes. I'm talking about the cost of lodging.

[Sally French]

Ooh, this is a topic Save with Sally is very passionate about. That is why I am always advocating for hotel credit cards. How else do you get a free hotel night for $95, right?

[Megan Coyle]

Unless it's a Tuesday in Vegas and

[Sally French]

you're staying at the Circus Circus.

[Megan Coyle]

I've done that before and let's just say never again.

[Sally French]

Wait, I didn't know you've actually stayed at the Circus Circus when I said that. Oh my gosh.

[Megan Coyle]

I think every college student that goes to Vegas stays at Circus Circus. You don't know any better.

[Sally French]

What I will do is I will put a list of the credit cards with free nights in the episode description in case you want to avoid the fate of Megan and many college students.

[Megan Coyle]

And of course there's also an alternative that we're talking about today. It might not work for college students, but this one is house swapping and house sitting. So the reason I'm so passionate about this is because lodging is often the most expensive part of any trip, especially if you're going for more than a night or two. So today I brought on two guests to talk about their experience with house swapping and house sitting and share how it saves the money.

[Sally French]

Dude, I gotta know about house swapping. I've never done it and I'm low key scared. You gotta tell me how it works and how it saves people money.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, so the old school way is, of course you would not spend any money at all doing the house swap. You would find someone to swap houses with you for certain dates and then you don't spend any money. You get to travel and live at that person's place, and then they live at your place.

[Sally French]

Hopefully their place is equivalent quality to yours. So you're getting that real fair trade.

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. But nowadays there are a lot of platforms that can help you find people to house swap with, and they're a lot more flexible with whether or not you have to be on the exact same dates. So some examples of These platforms include homeexchange.com People like us, kindred Facebook groups. And I've even seen people just post on TikTok or Instagram and say, hey, I want to do a house swap here. Like pictures of my gorgeous designed place. Like, do you want to swap with me?

[Sally French]

Yo? No way. It's safe trading with someone from Tik Tok?

[Megan Coyle]

I don't know, I have no idea. But I do think that some of the platforms could be a little bit more reliable because some of the platforms actually vet their listings and do background checks. And of course, as always, there is always a risk of letting strangers stay in your home or you staying at a stranger's home. They could, you know, the strangers could break things or leave a mess behind, or if you let them use your car, they could crash it. Who knows? So there is always a risk. But some of these platforms do try to put in some protections to make it a little bit safer.

[Sally French]

Hot tip, if you're doing this, make sure you check your homeowner's insurance policy and your auto insurance policy. These policies may or may not not cover the people who are house swapping or sitting in your home.

[Megan Coyle]

And that's if you own your home. If you do not own your home and you're just a renter, definitely check with your landlord before you house swap with anyone. I don't think that necessarily means that you can't house swap if you're renting, but you'll definitely Want to make sure

[Sally French]

you know, this policy goes for even Airbnbs. I had a roommate once who lied to our landlord and said that was her friend staying in her room and she rented it out on Airbnb illegally.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh my gosh, no. How long did that go on? Too long.

[Sally French]

Too long. She was not a good roommate anyway. Okay, let's talk about home swapping and how the home swapping platforms work.

[Megan Coyle]

So it kind of varies by platform, but on platforms like Home Exchange and people like us, users have to pay an annual membership fee to be able to swap homes. And home exchange is $235 a year. People like us is $159 a year. And those annual fees let you make unlimited exchanges. So once you pay that fee, then you don't have to pay money anywhere else.

[Sally French]

And what I find really interesting about this is unlike the good old fashioned barter system where I go to your house and you go to my house, you don't even need to worry about aligning exact dates.

[Megan Coyle]

Right. So a lot of these platforms will give you credits if you host someone, but it doesn't have to be a one to one exchange. So maybe you're going on travel and you're just like literally staying at hotels and someone is staying at your house. Then maybe the next time that you go on a trip, you can use the credits from having hosted someone on your next trip, if that makes sense.

[Sally French]

Yeah. So if you're using one of these home platforms, you will pay something, right?

[Megan Coyle]

Like it's not totally free. If you're using one of these platforms, they have to make money too. So I kind of get it. Kindred, for example though, uses a different sort of model where they have a nightly service fee and a cleaning fee on each booking, but you don't have to pay an annual membership fee. That might be good if you're sort of just want to try it out, but don't necessarily want to commit to an annual fee of like house swapping multiple times throughout a year when you've never done it before. But keep in mind, I mean, no one likes cleaning fees, so you will have to pay that. And it really would only make sense for longer stays because of the cleaning fee and the nightly service fee.

[Sally French]

And I will kind of devil's advocate for these fees, I think about trading with someone on TikTok. No way, I'm not doing that. But with the fees, you do have to imagine it's covering some degree of background checks and risks. So in a way I don't completely Hate the fees just because I know, or I at least think I know, that I'm being protected in some way by these companies.

[Megan Coyle]

And for hosts, that could be a really nice thing as well, because Kindred, for example, actually sends cleaners to your house after a booking. So part of the fee, the cleaning fee, is literally paying for people to come clean your house. I think that could be kind of nice if you need a little bit of help with kind of the process of managing a home swap.

[Sally French]

Yeah. Even if I'm the host, I don't want to clean up after someone else's mess. I can barely clean up after my own mess.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah. And I actually asked a lot of the people I interviewed about the cleaning and hosting people, and they love being hosts. So I'll let them tell you their story. The first one is Bob Krinsky, who is a host on Kindred.

[Sally French]

All right, let's bring on Bob.

[Megan Coyle]

Welcome to Smart Travel, Bob.

[Bob Krinsky]

Thrilled to be here. Thank you.

[Megan Coyle]

So tell me, where are you based and where do you like to travel?

[Bob Krinsky]

Well, I am living here in Williamsburg and I love traveling throughout the US And Europe. Although most of my Kindred travel over the last couple years has been domestic, it's been a refreshing alternative to traditional hotels for my business life.

[Megan Coyle]

Tell our listeners what is Kindred if they've never heard of it before.

[Bob Krinsky]

So Kindred is a home swapping community that is an app I discovered a couple of years ago. And I would say it is unlike any other experience in travel I've ever had. And it is completely different from the short term rental scene.

[Megan Coyle]

What makes it so different?

[Bob Krinsky]

So when I signed up, I basically was told that my apartment would be vetted. So it wasn't just for, you know, a given. And then once my apartment was approved, and at the time, this was a 25th floor, 750 square foot beautiful apartment in downtown San Francisco. They said, okay, we're going to send a photographer to your home to take pictures and make sure your home looks good. They sent a pen and a blank thank you note for me to leave for my guests to be able to write me a thank you note. And then they also encourage gifts of gratitude, which is a lovely facet of the connection and the community that I get to experience when I travel through Kindred. It's extremely low cost travel while staying in the comfort of somebody's home that feels like you are a guest in their home or people stay in my home. And I feel like I have a guest in my home. And it just makes it so Much more about the connection and the community than a transaction.

[Megan Coyle]

Why were you curious in getting into home swapping? Because you had bad experiences with vacation rentals before? Were you tired of hotels? What exactly about home swapping interested you?

[Bob Krinsky]

I did have sort of a last straw experience with short term rentals and so that sort of moved me to, I think I'm done with this. My life is really all about community. I have built community in lots of different places in my life. And the idea of staying locally and kind of being in, you know, I'm not a tourist. I sort of don't like the whole tourist scene, but I like the whole local scene and I like to kind of pretend I am a local when I am somewhere. So the idea and the affordability, it's way, way less expensive to home swap than it is to travel any other way.

[Megan Coyle]

Let's talk about that some more. Have you ever looked into how much you think you could save with home swapp versus vacation rentals?

[Bob Krinsky]

So I can tell you a couple of things. Let me start with a little anecdote. Two years ago, we wanted to put our two sons up, Leo and Harry, in San Francisco for 11 days during the holidays. And we were able to put them in downtown San Francisco in the Mission neighborhood in a beautiful two bedroom loft home for $675 total for 11 nights in downtown San Francisco. Now, I had to use 11 points also. But the points are easy to accumulate. You get them when you host other people. One night of hosting translates to one gained point. You also get points if you host your home as available. And I guess you also get points if you invite other people that end up joining the app. And so there are lots of easy ways to accumulate points. And then you spend the points with people you know by staying in somebody else's house. And it's a very interesting system. It's 1.1 night no matter what the home looks like or where the home is. So Whether it's a one bedroom apartment in downtown Brooklyn or a five bedroom estate in the mountains of Utah, it's one point for one night. And so $675 for 11 nights in downtown San Francisco. The other thing worth noting is because I've stayed about the number of somewhere between 50 and 70 nights out in other people's homes. That has translated to tens of thousands of dollars that I have saved.

[Megan Coyle]

How does the pricing work? Do you as a host, decide how much other people will pay to stay in your home?

[Bob Krinsky]

Super glad you asked that. It isn't even a money exchanging situation. So the cost that is assessed for the person to stay in the home is basically a cleaning fee. And I think that ranges a little bit depending on the size of the person's home, but it's usually somewhere 2, 250 and that pays for two cleanings before and after. And then the app makes its money through a charge which is a modest service charge that is just auto calculated within the app. And so for example, on this three day trip to Washington D.C. the app basically said I would be charged $330 total. That includes the $200 cleaning fee plus the $130 fee to the app. And the cleaning fee doesn't change whether you're there two days or 10 days. It's just a single cleaning fee charge. And then the number of days that the app makes does fluctuate by, I'm sure, location and number of days, but it's just all auto generated. And then I'm given the choice to say yes, would you like to be charged $330 for these three nights in D.C. and then I say yes. And then the person gets a chance to approve me, the guest, the person whose home it is approves me. And then it's only a point exchange not I never receive any money for having anyone stay in my apartment and I'm only paying for the cleaning fee and the, and the service charge when I'm staying in somebody else's place.

[Megan Coyle]

No matter where you are, you cannot escape the cleaning fees. Thinking about that San Francisco stay, I know I've stayed in San Francisco recently and the hotel night was $300 or more for one night. So to imagine you guys did 11 nights for that price is kind of crazy. How does the redeeming the points work? You said that the points kind of helped take off some of the cost of the stay. Can you explain that part a bit more?

[Bob Krinsky]

Yep, and I would. My hat's off to the user experience designers on the app because it is so intuitive and so easy. In fact, this coming weekend, Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights, I'm going to be in Washington D.C. and I said the nights that I was going to be there. And the app popped up 12 home options. What's also nice about this experience is each home option has both a detailed profile of the home and a detailed profile of the person whose home it is. And so like their LinkedIn connection photos, a description, they even do a short video on themselves so you know the person whose home it is. And I reached out and said, you know, person X can I stay in your home and the app just deducts three points because it's three nights from my cumulative total. So it's all. You don't even have to think about it. The app just. It adds points when you're supposed to have new points added and it deducts them when they're supposed to be deducted.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, gotcha. So it's sort of a mechanism to make sure you're actually swapping. Like, it doesn't want you to just have all these nights at other people's places. You also need to host people to earn some points. Kind of balance it out, right?

[Bob Krinsky]

Yes. Yes.

[Sponsor Voice]

Gotcha.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay.

[Bob Krinsky]

I'm happy to talk a little bit about my hosting experiences, if you like.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, let's hear it.

[Bob Krinsky]

So there's a couple of little hosting nuggets. The first time I used the app, I totally random happened to host a woman from the Kindred team who was coming into San Francisco for a team off site. And I just did what I would normally do. I had no idea she was even with Kindred, so. But what did I do? I put fresh flowers out in. In all my rooms, throughout my apartment. I wrote a five page handwritten note welcoming her to my home and telling her all about the. The little, you know, nooks and crannies and idiosyncrasies of the home. I put some Baileys out in a little coffee setup. I put fresh fruit. I put a shelf of waters and bubbly waters. And I wanted her to feel super welcome and well taken care of in my home. I think I even left a bottle of wine on the counter for her. And she went to that team meeting and said to her team, you guys aren't going to believe this. This host is completely over the top. And she went on to describe to her team what I had done, which I didn't even realize I was being over the top. I was just setting a tone like, you're a guest in my home. This is how I roll. I want you to feel this welcome. So somebody at the meeting said, gosh, this guy. I wish everyone could be like Bob. And then the team started chanting. I was told, be like Bob. Be like Bob. I came home from my travels and on my kitchen counter, they had actually made stickers for me that are like, be like Bob stickers. Which of course made me super proud. And so I've gone on to host again. It's somewhere between 50 and 70 different people. One other fun story, there's a woman that was in my apartment for 11 days in San Francisco. She was from Paris and we had established a nice rapport. I had had a video chat with her in advance. I was sending her text messages while she was in my home. She said in her final text to me, well, your place has been awesome, Bob, and thank you again. I'm now off to the next leg in my journey. And I said, oh, where are you off to? And she said, I'm off to Brooklyn. I said, no kidding. I am in Brooklyn right now visiting my sons. She said, oh, well, we have to meet for coffee. So the next morning I'm having coffee with a woman who I have this strange, close connection with because she just spent 11 days in my apartment, but who I had never actually met. And we had a lovely, you know, couple hours of coffee and chatting. She oddly left her scarf in my apartment, which I've gone on to use now for two winters. And I think of her every time I wear her scarf. And now she's moving to Brooklyn.

[Megan Coyle]

Wow.

[Bob Krinsky]

Just a kooky little connection story which makes travel, it gives travel this whole other dimension.

[Megan Coyle]

So you don't normally get a chance to meet any of these people in person. Right? Like that's not part of the check in process.

[Bob Krinsky]

It is not part of the check in process. So you typically are given the choice to talk to somebody by video. It's optional. It's also optional. It's at my discretion who I choose to host. Like, people reach out to me and say, would you. Which you host me? I actually just got a request from someone in Copenhagen, completely random. I've never even considered going to Copenhagen, asking if I'd like to swap with them. And the swapping works two ways. You either literally they're in your place while you're in their place, which I haven't done yet. That's what this Copenhagen opportunity is. Or if I'm just away on business travel or what have you and my apartment is available, then I can make it available to others and choose to host that way.

[Megan Coyle]

It sounds like you have gone above and beyond as a host. What are your tips for other hosts who are trying to build this community with the people they home swap with?

[Bob Krinsky]

I really am much more of an experience based person than a thing based person. So I don't have that much connection to my things. So it's no concern to me that someone I don't actually know is going to stay in my home. There are some people who are like, you have to be comfortable with having people you don't know stay in Your home. But it is such a trust first community that I don't even think twice about it. I think Kindred actually gives me yellow stickies that I can put on closet doors or drawers that say, you know, please don't open. I don't even use those. I don't use them because I just believe that somebody staying in my home is going to have their own intuitive sense of what privacy needs to be respected. And I don't need to be so prescriptive about it. And I do think it's important for people to feel really welcome. And so I do think going above and beyond is super easy to do. Putting out nice coffee or tea, putting a little chocolate on the pillow, fresh flowers is a $9 investment. Things like that, that kind of a little handwritten welcome note. You don't have to do that. The app has a digital document that's like, you're welcome. But I like for people to feel my presence through a handwritten note. And I do think it's really important to establish a rapport in advance and then once they're there, be in touch. I do go out of my way to welcome them once they're there. Do you have any questions? Can I give you any recommendations? I like doing that. It just feel. And then when I come back, every single time people have said, next time you're in Barcelona, please look us up. Next time you're in Paris, you got to come say hello. So I feel like I'm. I've got like a community all over the. All over Europe in the US That I can tap as I want to.

[Megan Coyle]

You've got a lot of different couches to crash on, except they're entire places.

[Bob Krinsky]

Exactly, yes.

[Megan Coyle]

I want to hear more about your stays at other homes. Are there any particularly notable ones where you remember you had a great trip and you had a great place to stay?

[Bob Krinsky]

One was in Marina del Rey, Southern California. I'm pretty certain that was a three to four million dollars home. It was stunningly decorated. It was about a three and a half bedroom, high ceilings, very modern. I couldn't believe that I had this person's whole home to myself in a gated community with access to tennis courts and. And other amenities. And it was all like, I just stumbled upon it. And they were out for that particular weekend. And I really remember thinking, this is crazy. I'm in this spectacular home in Southern California. For it was probably $350 total for three nights.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, wow. And you got kind of a resort experience since you had all those pools and tennis courts. Marina Del Rey is also right on the water. So close walk to the beach. I love that.

[Bob Krinsky]

It was really great. And then I just happened to be around Passover and she and I had had a conversation in advance, so I knew she celebrated Passover. And what I did as a thank you was send them some of San Francisco's best dark chocolate covered matzah as my thank you. And you know, even to this day, I get warmth in my heart knowing that she took such good care of me. I took such good care of her. As you know, I leave the house, my goal is to leave the house with zero evidence that I was ever even there. I just take a lot of pride in that. And that's what other people have done for me.

[Megan Coyle]

Bob, you know, you keep saying you're not into material things, but I think your love language is gifts. You can leave great gifts for everyone.

[Bob Krinsky]

That's very kind of you to say.

[Megan Coyle]

Tell me, what have you learned either about travel or a destination through the home swapping you've done over the past couple of years?

[Bob Krinsky]

Well, let's see. People usually are very generous with their recommendations. I think there's just some joy around saying to someone, hey, try this. It's in my neighborhood. And so I both have experienced that joy in recommending things locally and then having a guest say, that was a great recommendation, thank you. And then I have also had the benefit of discovering a phenomenal coffee shop. For example, when I was staying in Park Slope, that was one of the recommendations. There was another time when I was staying in the West Village and the homeowner had suggested that I go to this quaint little restaurant in the neighborhood that never would have occurred to me to go. But because it was recommended by someone who lived in the neighborhood, I was happy to go. So I would say that kind of really having more of a local experience. This woman that I was talking about who stayed in my place in Paris, I remember recommending to her a particular place 10 minutes from my apartment that made the best chocolate covered babka in the world. And she went there and took a picture of it and sent that to me. And in this day and age where you just don't have to look very far to see insanity and ugliness, you know, these little moments of connection and kindness and generosity, whether I'm hosting or traveling, just go a long way to nourishing my soul.

[Megan Coyle]

That was so well put. Well, one fun question I like to throw in kind of at the end of interviews is we do a segment on Smart travel called Hot Takeoffs, where we talk about our hot takes on travel. So I'm curious if you have any hot takes on. Could be anything. Doesn't have to be related to house swapping on how people travel.

[Bob Krinsky]

Let's see. Any hot takes on travel? This is the first time I've even had this thought because it's the first time I've been asked this question. Whenever you're done packing, I think you can take half of what's in your suitcase out and you'll be fine.

[Megan Coyle]

I 100% agree with this.

[Bob Krinsky]

I continually marvel at how much I take on trips and never end up wearing. Yeah, so that's one. Another is to always take the time to prepare really good food for the plane so that when other people are eating the airplane food, I am enjoying a really great salad that I had put together in advance and feeling, you know, the salad tastes that much better.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, yeah. I 100% agree with that one, too. I actually have this little tradition where I go to my local bakery that I like, the one I would recommend to people if they were in town, and I grab one of the croissants, and it's like my plain snack. You know, I'm like, everyone's eating those biscoff cookies I hate, and I'm over here munching on my croissant I've been looking forward to all day. So that's great advice.

[Bob Krinsky]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

All right. Well, Bob, thank you so much for being on Smart Travel. It was a pleasure talking to you today.

[Bob Krinsky]

An absolute pleasure. Thank you.

[Sally French]

Wow. I want to stay at Bob's house.

[Megan Coyle]

Sally, you live in San Francisco.

[Sally French]

It's kind of fine to swap neighborhoods for a night. Yeah.

[Megan Coyle]

There you go. Okay, time for a quick break. Next up, how hosting might be able to save you money on other aspects of your trip that is not lodging.

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[Megan Coyle]

All right, Sally. So I talked to another house swapper. He also happens to be named a variation of Bobby Bob, too.

[Sally French]

Bobble Bobby.

[Megan Coyle]

His name is Robert.

[Sally French]

That was obvious.

[Megan Coyle]

So this is Robert Barkley of Asheville, North Carolina.

[Sally French]

You know, I've never been to Asheville, but it sounds like a great travel destination.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, really? You would love it, Sally. It's like, very outdoors, super fun, very cute mountain town.

[Sally French]

It's on my list. I'll hit up Robert's house. It sounds like.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah. The cool thing about Robert is that he does a lot of hosting, and that works out great for his dog because his house sitters also take care of his adorable golden retriever for free.

[Sally French]

So if you stay at the house, you got to take care of the dog, right?

[Megan Coyle]

Exactly. But he's found that house sitting is the most affordable way to get pet sitting. And his house sitters will even drive him to the airport.

[Sally French]

Whoa. Robert has really worked out the system.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, he's another great host. Here's what he said. Hi, Robert. Welcome to Smart Travel.

[Robert Barkley]

Hi, Megan. Thank you. I've been looking forward to this.

[Megan Coyle]

I brought you on today to talk about house swapping. I've heard that that's something you do regularly to travel. Can you tell me a little bit about that? When did you start trying it?

[Robert Barkley]

Our situation is more along the line of a house sitter slash pet sitter while we travel. Okay, so we're not going to somebody's home. They're coming to us. And they come from all over the world. That's been our experience so far.

[Megan Coyle]

So they are travelers coming to your home to house sit or pet sit.

[Robert Barkley]

Correct. So we use trusted house sitters, which we found years ago, kind of before COVID My wife and I decided that we'd do extensive travel, and instead of boarding our dog or having somebody come and stay at our house and pay them a lot of money, we join trusted house sitters. So years ago, before COVID when we signed up, I think it was about less than $200 to join the program, the app.

[Megan Coyle]

And that's like an initiation fee, or is that every year?

[Robert Barkley]

Yeah, I think they renew it every year. And then you kind of go through the process. You add information about your dog, you add information about your house, you add pictures of your dog, you add pictures of your house. You give the candidate kind of a snapshot of what life would be like if they were to have stay at your house to house sit, slash dog sit. So signing up is pretty extensive. And then once all that's done, you list dates that you're going to be away, and it opens up your application to anybody that's on the other side of the app, the sitter side, and then sitters start applying to you. It's all kind of formal, and we go through them, we read all the app or the applications, and then we set up interviews. Most of the interviews are done on FaceTime. And then after we narrow it down to two or three, then we'll do like, a second interview, and then we'll decide on who we want to stay here.

[Megan Coyle]

And how many times have you done this?

[Robert Barkley]

I think we've surpassed 30.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, wow. Okay. Is this multiple times a year?

[Robert Barkley]

Well, we were traveling a lot more last year. This year it's been kind of slow travel. So it's been multiple times a year. And the benefit of it is it saves us money boarding the dog or paying a house sitter or a dog sitter. And it is a benefit to the sitter because they're traveling to Asheville and they're staying at a house, basically having a free vacation. All they have to do is keep track of our house, keep track of our dog. That's it. So it's really a win win.

[Megan Coyle]

So there's no money exchanged in this setup?

[Robert Barkley]

No.

[Megan Coyle]

Cool. So you get free house sitting, free dog sitting, and they get a free vacation. How do you go through the applications? How do you know that the person you're inviting into your home is going to take care of it?

[Robert Barkley]

We have not had a bad experience yet, and I don't know if it's due to us being good judges of character, but we know the demographic that really works for us, and it's the newly retired couple.

[Megan Coyle]

Ooh. Okay.

[Robert Barkley]

Either they can't have a dog or they lost an animal, or they love animals, but they don't have one right now. That's who we're really, really looking forward to accepting as an applicant. And they want to travel. You know, they've been working their whole lives, and now it's their time to travel, and this is what they do. And last year, we went on a very extensive vacation to the UK I think it was about two months, and we had a couple that this is all they do. I think they have a home in New Zealand.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, okay.

[Sponsor Voice]

A Kiwi.

[Robert Barkley]

Yeah. They go from House sit to house sit to house sit. And they do long, long sits. Like two plus months.

[Megan Coyle]

Wow. So they are experienced. By the way, what kind of dog do you have?

[Robert Barkley]

Oh, we have a golden retriever.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, okay. Easy, easy to please.

[Robert Barkley]

Sort of on the boring side. So there's not a whole lot of work that goes into watching her. One of the things that set us aside from a lot of other people looking for sitters is, and I don't know how legit it is with our insurance company, but we offer a car.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, wow, Nice.

[Robert Barkley]

So the way it works is they fly in, we pick them up at the airport. They normally come a day beforehand, so people think this is really strange. I don't at all. They're staying at our house with us the night before, and then they take us to the airport the next day in our car. The sit begins, and then when we come back, they either pick us up from the airport or they take the car the same day that we come in and they leave the car at the airport. Everybody's FBI background checked, so my dad thinks that we're nuts for doing this.

[Megan Coyle]

That is a great system because you're also saving on those rides to the airport. And Asheville, I think, does not have a huge airport. If I'm correct, you must be flying out of somewhere nearby.

[Robert Barkley]

Yeah, well, it's a regional airport. We always have to fly to Atlanta and then go to wherever we're going. But we've made incredible friends over the years doing this with the sitters.

[Megan Coyle]

Okay.

[Robert Barkley]

We just absolutely love it.

[Megan Coyle]

Tell me more about that. How do they become your friends while you're not even there?

[Robert Barkley]

We keep in touch throughout the sit, and that's one of the requirements that we have to applicants, is we'd like to hear from them at least once every couple days, even with pictures and WhatsApp notes saying everything's fine and stuff like that. So we kind of get to know them through that, and then the night before the sit, we really get to know them. And then afterward. Everything with this program is based on reviews. So we write them a review as a sitter and they write us a review as a sit. And you have to have five star reviews or people are not going to choose you. So we're not trying to really sell them and they're not really trying to sell us. It's just like we have to mesh together and it works out.

[Megan Coyle]

Was it difficult at first to start hosting people in your home? What would you say to a hesitant traveler who is thinking of joining A

[Robert Barkley]

service like this, it's not for everybody. You have to be open minded and you have to be trustworthy. We're not completely security conscious at our house. I mean, we don't have cameras everywhere and we lock the doors and windows, of course, but having people in our home, we don't really have a ton of stuff of value in our home. So I don't know what they would do with anything. Anyway, it really, really works out.

[Megan Coyle]

Do you do anything special to prepare your home before you leave for these extended periods?

[Robert Barkley]

We do. I send them a welcome package and I let them know the hotspots to eat close by. For some reason, most of the people that we have sit are hikers. So I give them all the hiking trails. We let them know where to go, what to do, things like that. So we're a member of the arboretum and we have a membership. So we offer the membership to them while they're here. It really works out. And then we stock up the refrigerator with basics like bread and milk and things like that. And then typically when we get home, they've done the same.

[Megan Coyle]

They're kind of treating your home as their own.

[Robert Barkley]

We just had a sit last week we went to Florida and the lady that sat here, she came from Colorado and she took Bonnie on major, major hikes. I mean hikes that my wife and I really wouldn't do because they're strenuous. But then she left the house cleaner than we had left it for her. So it was really nice to come back after a trip and everything be in order.

[Megan Coyle]

That was going to be my next question. How does the cleaning work? Like are there standards that you're setting for your guests? Like you have to vacuum something. I imagine the golden retriever dog hair is all over and I would hate to get back from vacation and realize it hadn't been touched for a couple of weeks.

[Robert Barkley]

Yeah, I think that's just something that common courtesy, like we would do the same and they do the same. It goes back to the trust thing where, you know, nobody's trashed our house, nobody's stolen from us. It's been perfect.

[Megan Coyle]

And how long are you to going, going for on these vacations or trips that makes it worth getting house sitter, like would they come and stay with your dog for only two days if you were gone just for a weekend?

[Robert Barkley]

A lot of people want to do the week or two week sits. And I think the benefit for us is living in a cool spot like Asheville. As soon as I put those dates out there on the website, we start Getting applications within 10 minutes, and people want to come to Asheville and basically stay for free.

[Megan Coyle]

Has your experience with this platform made you curious about doing the same in another place?

[Robert Barkley]

If we didn't have Bonnie, we would definitely be on the other side doing the sitting. But maybe someday.

[Megan Coyle]

Tell me a little bit more about the friendships you've developed through house sitting. Have you guys ever met up in person after a sit? How do you guys stay in touch, that kind of thing?

[Robert Barkley]

We stay in touch and we had a really bad storm. Helene here, I don't know if you remember that. And it was scary, and we were very lucky where we live. But a lot of these house sitters reached out to us to make sure everything was okay. One couple from, I think they were in Michigan sent us like, a care package of meals and things. So, you know, this whole program has sort of reminded me that there's still kindness in this world through house sitting. I mean, simple as that.

[Megan Coyle]

And I'm curious, would you have done this without a platform that makes it so easy to connect with people? I know that this kind of practice has been going on for a long time, but the websites just make it so easy now.

[Robert Barkley]

I think everybody being screened makes it easy. And then having the past reviews of sitters, we've been doing this so long, I can kind of pick and choose who we want. So if I have five applicants and I have one that has no reviews, and I have a couple that have four or five reviews, and then I have somebody that has 20 reviews and they're all five star, I'll read through them and find out what made them review so high. And that's after our interview. That's probably the candidate that I would really look at.

[Megan Coyle]

And as far as travel goes, how would you explain to someone why it's important to think about the costs associated with travel that maybe involve the house sitter, the dog care, that kind of thing, how much could those be if you were to estimate it?

[Robert Barkley]

You know what? I can't tell you the last time. I don't think we've ever boarded our dog. So I don't know what that cost is. I know it's outrageous. And then I think that a lot of people charge between 60 and $80 a day for house sitting. And I don't even know if that's staying at your home that may be just coming and feeding the dog. I don't know. But either way, I think that our dog gains a lot of stability when they have somebody staying Here, that long, really long sit that we had. We came back from the set and the couple stayed for an extra two days. Just because we're always accommodating to flights for them. Pick flights that you can get. If you need to stay here for two or three days afterwards, fine. But we got home, and Bonnie, our dog, was very excited to see us. But that night when we went to bed, she went and slept with them.

[Megan Coyle]

Betrayal.

[Robert Barkley]

Yeah. And I'll tell you, that was really tough. And it took her about two to three weeks to kind of warm up to us again. So those long sits, I don't know

[Megan Coyle]

that we could do that again purely for the heartbreak.

[Robert Barkley]

Yeah. When we do go away, we have to hide our luggage. Like, we have to put it in the other room. And then when we take it to the car to go to the airport, we have to have Bonnie outside so she doesn't see any of this because she pouts.

[Megan Coyle]

Aw. Isn't that crazy that dogs know exactly what packing looks like? They know, but at the same time, when you leave to go to the grocery store, they do not know that you are going to the grocery store. They only know when you're going on vacation and make you feel bad about it. Okay, what else have you learned from this experience that you want to pass on to other travelers?

[Robert Barkley]

Expenses on your trip are costly enough, and this side of it does not need to be costly. You can still go away and be confident that somebody's taking care of your home and your dog. This last trip that we were on, I never for once had any concern about Bonnie or our house.

[Megan Coyle]

That's the kind of peace of mind you really can't buy, too, right?

[Robert Barkley]

Yeah.

[Megan Coyle]

Tell me a little bit more about some of the trips you've been on. That house sitting has enabled you to go on guilt free.

[Robert Barkley]

We did a lot of COVID travel, and I don't think it was because of COVID but it was timing in our lives where we could travel. But we did a lot of travel during COVID And then one of our big trips, we bought a camper van and did a two month trip around the United States.

[Megan Coyle]

Wow.

[Robert Barkley]

And we had a. Yeah, we had a sitter for that entire time. We've been to New Zealand and Japan, different places, and never concerned about what's going on at home.

[Megan Coyle]

That's awesome.

[Robert Barkley]

Yeah.

[Megan Coyle]

I love New Zealand. You finally got to see where the Kiwis live.

[Robert Barkley]

We were there for the rugby world. I don't know what they call it, but the All Blacks won when we were there.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, so exciting. Watching them do the haka is maybe one of the coolest sporting experiences I've ever seen in my life.

[Robert Barkley]

Yeah. Beautiful.

[Megan Coyle]

One last question. We always ask our guests if you have any hot takes on travel.

[Robert Barkley]

So wherever we're sitting on the airplane, this is something that has recently happened numerous times, and it drives me nuts. You know, when the plane stops and everybody takes their seatbelt off and everybody stands up.

[Megan Coyle]

Yes.

[Robert Barkley]

And then I would say common courtesy is the, you go, you go, you go, you go. Well, lately, people from the back have been screaming up.

[Megan Coyle]

Oh, yeah, they've been rushing it. They're rushing to the door. And then.

[Robert Barkley]

So drives me nuts where I kind of put my leg and my foot out to block them. And my. My wife always thinks that I act like a baby when that happens, but I'm trying to get more happening every time, just about.

[Megan Coyle]

So I agree with you. I think everyone should go row by row out of the airplane. It honestly is not. It's just. It's the tax of sitting in the back. You know, if you're in the back, you know, you have to wait probably 15 minutes to get off the airplane.

[Robert Barkley]

Right.

[Megan Coyle]

But, you know, you can finish your movie. It's fine. Robert, thank you so much for coming on Smart Travel.

[Robert Barkley]

Thank you.

[Sally French]

Oh, I would totally take care of Robert's dog and drive him to the airport. He sounds like so much fun to host.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah. I do like the personal touch of house swapping, because it's more like you're really living somewhere and not just visiting, if you know what I mean.

[Sally French]

I know what you mean. It is time to move along to hot takeoffs. Do you have one this week?

[Megan Coyle]

Okay, I do. This might be unexpected coming from someone who loves their travel credit cards, but I hate getting gift cards with the credits on my travel credit card. How do you feel about gift cards?

[Sally French]

No, I agree. Gift cards are also so annoying. And they're really in the same genre of all these bougie coupon book credits. The only thing that gift cards have that are better than the bougie coupon book credits is they generally don't expire. But do they expire in some states? I don't.

[Megan Coyle]

I don't know.

[Sally French]

But California doesn't let them expire. But even still, I don't want a

[Megan Coyle]

gift card either way. It's so hard to remember to use them. Like, I never have them with me. Like, I lose them, or sometimes the credits are just building. So, Sally, remember when the Amex Platinum announced that they Were gonna give everyone the $75 Lululemon credit every quarter. So I know myself. I try not to get gift cards. So I actually ordered something, but you might remember I got sent the wrong order in that whole craziness with a new credit. And so then I returned it, and they were like, oh, we don't have the product anymore, so we'll just give you a gift card. And I was like, no, I was trying to avoid.

[Sally French]

Yes.

[Megan Coyle]

And then I still have not been able to use it. It's been like, almost a year.

[Sally French]

Yo, just this is a hot take. Not even related to travel, but when people give gifts and then the gift is a gift card, like, just give me money. I think people don't want to give money. Also, like, you don't need to give me money. But, like, it's just wild that people gift gift cards.

[Megan Coyle]

Yeah, the gift cards are tough. I think they can really build up. If you're consistently using your statement credits on your travel credit cards for gift car cards, like, then you'll just never use it.

[Sally French]

Yeah, the only way gift cards ever make sense. Sometimes the Cheesecake Factory does this where they'll be like, if you buy 50 worth of gift cards, you get a free ch. Slice of cheesecake. And then I'm like, okay, the Cheesecake is probably $10, so I'm basically spending 50 to get a free cheesecake. But even then I'm like, do I want the gift card or should I just pay for the cheesecake to not have the stress of the gift card? Yo, I'm with you.

[Megan Coyle]

I would pay for the cheesecake.

[Sally French]

No gift cards. I agree.

[Megan Coyle]

All right, send us your hot [e-mail] you can email us or you could send us a voice memo because we love those.

[Sally French]

I want to hear your voice. Make sure you follow Smart Travel on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes. If you're listening on Spotify, please drop us a comment on this show right in the app.

[Megan Coyle]

This episode was produced and edited by Nick Christme today. Thanks, Nick and Claire. Socie and Hilary.

[Sally French]

Georgie helped with fact checking and that brief disclaimer. We are not financial or investment advisors. This info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes. It may not apply to your specific circumstances.

[Megan Coyle]

We hope you're inspired to keep your passport full and your wallet even fuller. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you next time.

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