Megan Coyle (1:47)

I actually love these Amex offers for that reason alone.

Unknown (1:50)

So good call out.

Megan Coyle (1:51)

And another reminder on the hotel front is that Hyatt's award chart is changing on March 25th. That means this is basically your last.

Unknown (1:59)

Week to book before award Prices at.

Megan Coyle (2:01)

More than 100 Hyatt properties get more expensive.

Sally French (2:04)

Good reminder to book now. Lock in lower prices before points. Rates on most hotels that are affected will go up.

Megan Coyle (2:10)

Also, a new but ultimately kind of lackluster redemption option for Bilt Rewards members.

Sally French (2:15)

Yeah. So Bilt announced. You can now connect your Bilt and Lyft rideshare accounts and then you can redeem your built points to pay for your Lyft rides. It's always nice to have another way to redeem points in case you're not using them for things like travel at hot hotels and on airlines.

Megan Coyle (2:31)

If you want to get the most value out of your built points, though, I'd recommend you transfer them to high value partners. When you redeem your built points for Lyft rides, they're worth 0.7 cents each. But if you transfer them to a partner like Hyatt or Alaska Airlines, it's easier to get more value if the.

Sally French (2:48)

Listeners remember we actually talked about Built last episode when we drafted the best travel credit cards. So if you missed it, go back and listen. We can link to our guide to built rewards as well in the episode.

Megan Coyle (2:59)

Description and I stand by my draft pick of the built MasterCard.

Sally French (3:03)

Fair enough. It wasn't for the Lyft deal though. Yeah, okay, so in aviation news, Spirit Airlines is out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Officially, they filed for bankruptcy protection back in November 2024. A court approved the airline's plan for reorganization in February.

Megan Coyle (3:20)

Over the past few months, the budget airline Spirit has been reorganizing its corporate structure and debt. According to a press release, those investments will provide, quote, guests with enhanced travel experiences and greater value.

Sally French (3:33)

Do we actually know what those enhanced travel experiences will be?

Megan Coyle (3:37)

Not exactly, but there are definitely some clues from last year that the airline wants to try courting passengers willing to spend more. So the airline introduced a new first.

Unknown (3:46)

Class last year called Go Big, which.

Megan Coyle (3:48)

Was one of Spirit's big front seat.

Unknown (3:51)

It's like a little bit of a.

Megan Coyle (3:52)

Bigger seat bundled with in flight snacks and alcoholic beverages. And there was also a Go Comfy option where the middle seat was blocked. So it's kind of a normal economy seat, but there's no one sitting next to you so you have a bit more space.

Sally French (4:05)

And maybe this means for once I can get a free Coke Zero in flight.

Unknown (4:09)

Would that get you to book a flight with them?

Sally French (4:10)

Hey, I don't hate Spirit as much as most people do.

Megan Coyle (4:13)

Well, I wouldn't count on that Coke Zero because Spirit reversed some of the perks that they had just introduced with those new types of seats and fares. Kind of like another airline I know. But for example, change and cancellation fees are back for Go fares, which were the cheapest fares on Spirit. And those Go Comfy fares, the ones with the middle seat block, those no longer come with checked baggage.

Sally French (4:37)

Ouch. Yeah, so Spirit does live on, but maybe not in the form you remember it. Probably better to just not remember those tiny seats anyway.

Unknown (4:45)

Yeah.

Megan Coyle (4:45)

But some great deals on occasion for budget travelers. Hopefully that part will stick around.

Sally French (4:50)

Okay, Megan, today we're talking about one of my favorite types of trips for budget travelers, and that's national parks.

Unknown (4:55)

These are such a favorite for me. I think I still have the notebook where I collected stamps from the ones I visited.

Sally French (5:00)

You know, I was big into the ranger program as a kid, and I definitely collected all the patches.

Unknown (5:05)

Before we get into this, though, we need to talk about the major cuts to federal jobs this year. And that's affecting staffing at the National Park Service, which has already been dealing with staffing shortages long before the layoffs. Already this year, multiple outlets have reported on issues like long lines to enter the park park. Some of the visitor centers are closing on certain days of the week and ranger led programs are being cut.

Sally French (5:26)

We did reach out to the National Park Service to kind of understand where they are now and where they're headed. So they gave us an email statement which was pretty generic. Here's what it said. The National Park Service is hiring seasonal workers to continue enhancing the visitor experience as we embrace new opportunities for optimization and innovation in workforce management. So that's the email from them. And maybe at least that's a reason to be optimistic that parks can handle this summer's crowds.

Unknown (5:51)

Yeah, it might not be enough still to bridge the gaps. And there are some long term effects, too, of losing workers with all that expertise and experience.

Sally French (6:00)

Definitely. So let's note that of course, things seem like they're changing day by day. Things may have changed by the time we're talking. And you're listening to this right now. Again, it is pretty unclear how these changes might impact national parks long term.

Unknown (6:13)

So if you're planning to visit a park, go to nps.gov, the official national Park Service website, for the latest updates on the park you are planning to visit. For now, we'll give you all the information we can and we'll update you in future episodes as we learn more.

Sally French (6:27)

Okay, but let's dive into the fun part now. So, Megan, before we get started, I want to know, how many national parks have you been to?

Unknown (6:33)

I think 20 that actually have national parks in the name, which we can talk about a little bit later, but I'm hoping to squeeze in a few more this year.

Sally French (6:40)

Ooh, fun. Okay. Well, I would say I'm mostly the same. I do have a friend who's going to all of them. Their goal is to hit every single National Park. They did their wedding at Indiana Dunes National Park. Whoa. I know. And what's exciting is we do have National Park Week coming up. That's April 19th through April 27th. And it's important to note that all national parks are entirely free on April 19th.

Unknown (7:03)

Yeah, it's one of several free admission days throughout the year. So if you won't be able to go next month, you still have a few chances this year to save a few bucks on admission.

Sally French (7:11)

That's right. So for 2025, there are seven days where national Park Service sites that usually charge an entrance fee will offer free admission to everyone.

Unknown (7:20)

And we should note that that doesn't mean your trip is completely free. There still may be other fees, like for wilderness permits if you're going backpacking, or reservation fees for the most popular hikes.

Sally French (7:29)

Two of these days in 2025 have already passed. One was January 9th. That was the national day of mourning for former President Jimmy Carter.

Unknown (7:37)

You live to be a hundred.

Sally French (7:38)

I know. It's so wild. And you know what's funny is Jimmy Carter's administration actually oversaw a large increase in the number of national parks. He authorized 15 additional parks under his term.

Unknown (7:49)

Wow. Go, Jimmy.

Sally French (7:50)

We also already passed January 20th. That was Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Also, Parks are free on that day. There is hope to go entirely free. That's because there are four more free entry days besides April 19th. Those are June 19th for Juneteenth. National Independence Day, August 4th for the anniversary of the Great American Outdoors Act. September 27th. That's the National Public Lands Day. And then finally for 2025, we have November 11th. That's Veterans Day.

Unknown (8:17)

I love celebrating things that aren't birthdays. So mark your calendars, people.

Sally French (8:21)

Let's go. Now, I will say even if you cannot visit on a free day, national parks are still super affordable for many travelers.

Unknown (8:28)

Most sites run by the National Park Service don't charge any entrance fees, even the ones that do. The most expensive entrance fee is 35 per vehicle, and it's good for seven days in most cases.

Sally French (8:39)

That's a deal.

Unknown (8:40)

So, yeah, when you split that with other people in your car or you go in and out of the park for a few days in a row, it's really great value.

Sally French (8:46)

And one more reason to carpool. Now, I will say if you're to park on foot or bike, then sometimes you'll owe a per person fee. But I actually really love this option as well. It's typically not as high as a vehicle price, and we do see people enter national parks on bike, on foot. I'm really into this tour company called Backroads. Most people bike with back roads and you can do these long multi day bike tours through the parks. They're super awesome.

Unknown (9:09)

Of course, there are also some parks that you can't even get to by driving in a private vehicle. For example, I went to Channel Islands in Southern California and you can only get there by ferry.

Sally French (9:19)

You're. You're definitely not driving a car in Channel Island.

Unknown (9:22)

Definitely not.

Sally French (9:23)

You know, other places like that are Denali, that's a huge national park in Alaska. It is $15 per person. Most of that is not accessible to personal vehicles. To see most of it, you can ride the shuttle that is included with your admission. Otherwise you can get around by like hiking or cycling or something like dry.

Unknown (9:40)

Tortuga is another example where it's mostly water with some islands, so you can't drive a car there either.

Sally French (9:45)

Definitely not dry.

Unknown (9:47)

Yeah. So let's talk about annual passes, because these can be a deal if you hit a couple of national parks per year.

Sally French (9:53)

Yes. This is called the America the Beautiful pass.

Unknown (9:55)

And I'd say it's a good deal if you've got a couple of Trips planned. It's $80 and covers entrance fees at national parks plus a bunch of other outdoor areas like lands managed by the US Forest Service or the Bureau of Land Management.

Sally French (10:08)

The one and only year I had this pass was in 2020.

Unknown (10:11)

Perfect timing, because being outdoors was the thing to do in 2020. Did you have it before the pandemic started?

Sally French (10:17)

You know, I beat the trend. So this is wild. I was doing a vacation to Hawaii and we were at Hawaii Volcanoes National Park. The entrance fee is $30 per vehicle. And we saw this America the Beautiful pass advertised and you know what we knew? We had a wedding in Yosemite later that year. Their entrance fee was going to be $35 per vehicle. So we kind of did the math and we said, you know what, let's just buy the America the Beautiful pass and maybe it'll incentivize us to hit another national park. Even if we don't spend it, we'll consider this a donation to the National Park Service. Y Covid hit. And we figured the Yosemite wedding would be canceled. But we took that time to do a big Southwest national parks road trip. So we ended up doing what everyone did, doing the outdoor trip. We did Bryce Canyon, Zion, Grand Canyon, Arches, Canyonlands. We got amazing value out of this national parks pass. We were so glad that we ended up Buying it in, you know, February when we did that Hawaii National Parks trip.

Unknown (11:12)

And I love that it kind of incentivized you to get out and still use it during the pandemic.

Sally French (11:16)

Absolutely. And then the funniest part is our friend ended up canceling her Yosemite wedding, but three of us were like, let's just go to Yosemite anyway. Oh, that's so sweet. So we still got to go to Yosemite in 2022.

Unknown (11:26)

Oh, man. I also went to Yosemite in 2020, and it was a time it was not crowded. It was so beautiful. I loved it. I saw a lot of bears. It was very cool to go to national parks when wilderness was coming back during the pandemic.

Sally French (11:40)

So good.

Unknown (11:40)

Yeah. We've got a lot more to talk about. As many tips for visiting national parks as there are national parks or pretty close. We'll have more in a moment. Stay with us.

Sally French (11:48)

Foreign.

Unknown (11:55)

So, Sally, you mentioned hitting all those southern Utah parks. There are limited versions of annual passes that cover certain parks in a somewhat nearby area. They call these park groups. Did you think about those at all?

Sally French (12:07)

Yeah. So this is a good option. If you don't want to go all out with the American the Beautiful pass, you don't want to pay the full $80. This is a way to see a certain number of parks for less. If you live in a certain park heavy area and you know you're just going to go to parks this year or maybe you're doing just a specific southwest national park strip where you hit those parks in one go, you might want to consider this pass, which is cheaper.

Unknown (12:28)

There's a lot of different park groups, too. Some examples are the Hawaii Tri Park Pass, which gives you 12 months of access to Haleakala National Park, Hawaii Volcanoes national park, and Pu Onua oh Honau Now National Historical Park. That's a sacred site in Hawaii and it costs $55.

Sally French (12:44)

Yeah. And so if I didn't have the full America the Beautiful pass, I could have at least saved some Money on my 2020 trip to the Southeast Utah parks with their park pass. That one covers Arches National Park, Canyonlands Natural Bridges National Monument, and Hovenweep National Monument. That one is $55.

Unknown (13:02)

And let's talk about some other ways you can get this annual pass for free, the full one for all the parks. So current US Military and dependents can get a free annual pass. And US Citizens and permanent residents with a permanent disability can qualify for what's called an access pass for free, which gets you into national parks, plus some other discounts on in park amenities. You'll just have to pay $10 in shipping and handling fees if you order one online.

Sally French (13:26)

Okay, good deal. You can go to the national parks website, that's nps.gov to find out more about how you can qualify and purchase those things.

Unknown (13:33)

And here's a fun one. Us fourth graders can get a free pass to the parks for their entire fourth grade year, because that's the year that most kids are doing state history and learning about, like, the place they grew up in America. So this is a really fun one. The past admits them and the other members of their vehicle if that's the entrance fee. We got these for my younger sisters when they were fourth grade, and my mom used to joke that we were the freeloaders. Like, we were just tagging along with my sister Sydney.

Sally French (14:02)

Dude, I totally missed that when I was in fourth grade. But if you are a parent or guardian of a fourth grader, or maybe you yourself are in fourth grade. Hello, fourth graders. You can go to every kidoutdoors.gov to get that pass.

Unknown (14:13)

There's also discounts for senior citizens. I'm thinking about getting one for my stepdad, Ed. Sorry, I hope you're not listening. I know your birthday is in a month. If you're a U.S. citizen or permanent resident ages 62 or older, you can purchase a senior annual pass for just $20, or a lifetime pass, which is good for as long as you live, once you've purchased it for just $80.

Sally French (14:35)

You know, it's funny you say that, Megan. My stepdad was actually so excited to turn 62. He's a huge outdoors guy, so this is the first thing he did when he turned 62.

Unknown (14:43)

Oh, my gosh.

Sally French (14:44)

I know. It was so you. Actually, recently we did a big national parks trip with him. We went to Grand Tetons in Yellowstone. So thank you, Jake. I know you are listening to this for having already turned 62 and making me a freeloader as well.

Unknown (14:57)

Yellowstone's a dream trip for me, so that is so cool. You got to go. Let's talk about the most expensive part of visiting national parks, which is not the entrance fee, but usually the lodging.

Sally French (15:08)

Yes. So the entrance fee is quite affordable, but lodging can be pricey. So I typically break national park lodging into four. Four options. I would say there's lodging inside the park, hotels outside the park, vacation rentals outside the park, and then my latest favorite trend is glamping.

Unknown (15:25)

And don't forget camping or parking your RV inside Or outside the park. So that's kind of like a sub option of the four.

Sally French (15:31)

A sub camping option. I love it. Okay, so let's start by talking about staying inside the park. So many national parks have lodges or hotels right in the park, especially with those parks like Yellowstone where they're huge. This can be a nice way to keep you in the heart of the action.

Unknown (15:44)

But here's a catch. These book up really fast. The best lodges like the Ahani Hotel in Yosemite or the Old Faithful Inn in Yellowstone can sell out months or even a year in advance.

Sally French (15:54)

Yes, I know. We walked right through the Old Faithful Inn when I did that Yellowstone trip with my parents. It is the most perfect location. I love it because you don't need to worry about timing your trip around the eruption because you're just always there.

Unknown (16:08)

So can you like see it from the windows on?

Sally French (16:10)

Oh, for sure. I mean, amazing balcony seating. It's seriously the best.

Unknown (16:14)

So cool. Okay, so my only tip for getting these really hard to get reservations is planning more than a year in advance so you know when the reservations open up and then the opposite, which is just waiting until the last minute and hoping for cancellations. I would make sure you have something else booked in case nothing comes up. But sometimes you can nab a room if people change plans.

Sally French (16:35)

Yes, some of these top tier hotels really do book up in advance. So that takes us to. Our next tip is if you cannot find something inside the park or you just want something more budget friendly, staying just outside the park gates can be a really good choice.

Unknown (16:47)

Many national parks have gateway towns with hotels, Airbnbs and vacation rentals. This can be cheaper and more convenient, especially if the park is huge and you'll be driving around anyway. And of course, some of these hotels are bookable on points. I will say you should look at how long it'll take to drive. It's not a deal breaker for me, but I've stayed outside of Joshua Tree, for example, and then been like, oh my gosh, it's actually like an hour to get anywhere I want to go inside of the park.

Sally French (17:15)

Yeah, I think it really depends on like the city, proximity to the park and then how big the park is. So I had a really good experience when I did that 2020 trip. We stayed in the city of Moab in Utah, which is super cute. It's a pretty short drive to Arches and Canyonlands, which are these amazing parks with red rock landscapes. Highly recommend you visit. We stayed at the Hyatt Place Moab. I used points from my World of Hyatt credit card. Great experience.

Unknown (17:38)

Glamping is another option that has just exploded in popularity the past few years.

Sally French (17:42)

Yes, I love this trend. I get so many pitches in my inbox each day from companies trying to tell me about their glamping resorts.

Unknown (17:48)

I've been a little skeptical about them because they can seem expensive for what they are, which sometimes is just a tent in the middle of nowhere. But I've been interested in them more lately because now some big name hotel brands are getting in on the action.

Sally French (18:03)

And the benefit of big name hotel brands being in on the action is that as US Points and miles nerds, you can now book them with hotel points.

Unknown (18:10)

Last year, World of Hyatt partnered with Under Canvas, which has safari style tents near parks like Zion, Grand Canyon and Yellowstone.

Sally French (18:18)

Well, you know, when I did that Yellowstone trip with my parents, we actually stayed at Under Canvas Yellowstone.

Unknown (18:22)

No way. And they were into it.

Sally French (18:24)

They were into it as a stretch. So I was into it. My mom kept saying like, it's too cold, it's too cold. And I was like, mom, you are still camping. These are not forced, dirty walls.

Unknown (18:33)

Yeah, yeah. Your stepdad is still a senior citizen, so might still want some comfort.

Sally French (18:38)

But you know, I loved it. They have fire pits, they have s'mores that you can use. And then this was so fun. So we did my parents and then me and my fiance and we booked what was supposed to be a family tent. So there was a main tent and then these little teepee tents for the kids. So my fiance and I shared the kids teepee tent.

Unknown (18:54)

You were in the kids tent and you also had to sit at the kids table for dinner. I love it. Yes.

Sally French (18:58)

Yes. That's the dream.

Unknown (19:01)

Hilton partnered with Auto Camp last year as well. So Auto Camp is known for their retrofitted Airstream trailers, you know, those iconic like aluminum RVs.

Sally French (19:10)

I want to stay in one. Yes.

Unknown (19:11)

They also have some cabins and tents as well. And they have these at parks including Yosemite, Zion and Joshua Tree.

Sally French (19:18)

Okay, this is on my bucket list for sure.

Unknown (19:20)

I stayed at the one in Joshua Tree in Southern California last year and it was wonderful. The Airstreams are so cute and they have a lot of outdoor communal spaces. So you don't feel like you're stuck inside your RV all the time. Like you can sit by the fire pit and you can hang out at in the lobby, which is just beautiful. Has this striking door that's really iconic. So I'm looking at points rates for Auto Camp Zion and They're usually like about a hundred thousand Hilton points or more, which is a similar rate for a high end resort. Though the cash rates are only about $300 a night.

Sally French (19:57)

Okay, that's interesting because at NerdWallet, we would usually say 100,000 Hilton points are worth about $600. So maybe this is a case where it's better to pay cash for Auto Camp over points.

Unknown (20:06)

This sounds like a time to shamelessly plug our Nerd Wallet points calculator for Hilton points, which you can find in our show notes. Even if it's not a good redemption, these partnerships are great for people because if you pay in cash, you can still earn points on your stay. So at Auto camp, you earn 10 Hilton Honors points for every dollar you spend on your room rate. Either way, if you're redeeming points or earning points, these can still be a really great opportunity if you're interested in staying near the national parks.

Sally French (20:32)

Yeah, and I should note that points to cash ratio is just one example of one night. Especially if you can be flexible with your dates. You might find some dates where points rates are cheap. So just be flexible. Check the Hilton calendar. Now, another note on this is that Auto Camp is a really good way to flex your Hilton Elite status. Megan, I know you have gold status, and at Auto Camp, I know you get one bundle of firewood per stay, two eco friendly waters, and an upgrade if there is space available. I have diamond status, which is why I really need to stay at Auto Camp because they give you all that plus a free s'mores kit.

Unknown (21:04)

Eating s'mores around the fire pit at Joshua Tree under all of those stars was magical. You have to do it.

Sally French (21:09)

You know I'm a sucker for anything s'mores. Okay, so you mentioned Joshua Tree, and that is one of the most popular national parks. Let's talk about what people should know about crowds, especially if they're going to one of these popular parks this year.

Unknown (21:21)

And with almost all travel interest has just exploded, especially in the last 10 years.

Sally French (21:26)

So we don't have official parks data for 2024 yet, but we do have 2023 visitor data. There were an estimated 325.5 million national park visits in 2023. That's how many times someone entered a national park. And that figure is up 4% from 2022.

Unknown (21:43)

Not the busiest year, though. That record was actually back in 2016 when there was 330 million national park visits recorded.

Sally French (21:51)

What happened in 2016?

Unknown (21:53)

Well, that was the National Park Service centennial. So I'm guessing it was a big marketing push to get everyone to celebrate the 100th anniversary of that agency.

Sally French (22:01)

Okay, so of marketing tactics really do work.

Unknown (22:04)

Yeah. The national parks have really been on the rise for the past decade, though, with the exception of a slowdown in 2020 and 2021.

Sally French (22:11)

So, speaking of crowds, let's talk about navigating and possibly avoiding them. Probably zero percent surprising to anyone, but July is the busiest month on average for national parks. In 2023, July saw more than 42 million visits. Compare that with the slowest month, January, which had just 13.6 million visits.

Unknown (22:30)

But if you're planning to take a trip in the off season, make sure the park you want to visit is open. Like, there are some parts or entire parks that don't open the entire winter.

Sally French (22:39)

Right.

Unknown (22:40)

I went to Zion once in February, and it was really beautiful. There were not a ton of people, and there was actually snow on the cliffs and nobody on the shuttles with us, which was amazing.

Sally French (22:48)

That sounds kind of dreamy. And of course, seasonality is going to vary across parks. Some parks have their own seasonal variation. I'm talking about something like Dry Tortugas. Those are most popular during spring break. Something like Joshua Tree peaks between February through April and then again in November.

Unknown (23:03)

And December, especially if you're going in peak season. Pay attention to reservation requirements. Some parks require advanced reservations to just enter the park during busy times. You don't want to drive or fly all the way there and get turned away at the gates.

Sally French (23:18)

And then there are some parks that don't require reservations to get in, but you might need a permit for certain activities. I'm thinking about something like Angels Landing in ZION. Again, check nps.gov before going. They list all the parks and their entry rules.

Unknown (23:30)

I think that's especially important this year. You'll want to arm yourself with information and be prepared because visitor centers might not always be open. And there isn't a lot of cell phone service in some parks. So do your best to familiarize yourself with the area. Download an offline map and know the risks.

Sally French (23:46)

And just a tip, make sure you always bring extra water and food if you're hiking. If you are not someone who hikes regularly, you might not be used to how many calories you're burning.

Unknown (23:54)

As we talked about at the top of the episode, there have been some cuts to federal jobs at the national parks, so you might be worried about short staffing and what that means for you. I called a former park ranger I know, and his advice for Staying at a park that might have less staffing than usual is to be responsible for yourself.

Sally French (24:10)

Okay, this next part of the show, I want you to indulge me. Let's each say one park we want to go to, and then one park that we love, that we think listeners need to go to.

Unknown (24:19)

Oh, this is fun. Okay, I think I know mine.

Sally French (24:21)

Okay, well, I'm going to go first anyway. So my first one is the Grand Canyon.

Unknown (24:26)

But you've already been to the Grand Canyon, Sally.

Sally French (24:29)

Yes, I know. I've actually been in the Grand Canyon, like, twice. But here is a new experience I want to do at the Grand Canyon, and that is hiking to the bottom, staying overnight at this place. It's called Phantom Ranch. It's a series of cabins. They serve you dinner there. You can spend the night. Some people spend two nights, and then you hike back up to the top. My dad actually did this with a bunch of his high school buddies, and I am so jealous. I need to do the planning to do this myself. Of course, planning is the key word here. To get in. It's a lottery system, super competitive. So you do need to be flexible with your dates and actually enter and win that lottery.

Unknown (25:01)

Wow, that sounds so cool. But bring some water. That also sounds really hot.

Sally French (25:05)

Okay, good tip. Good tip.

Unknown (25:06)

For mine, I'm gonna pick North Cascades national park as the one I want to visit. That one is in Washington State, and it is the type of landscape that I love. It's mountains, it's glaciers, it's lake. Okay, so pretty great hiking. And my sister just moved to the Pacific Northwest, so we want to hit all the ones up there.

Sally French (25:27)

Okay, fun. As far as the park that listeners need to go to, I would say don't sleep on Canyonlands. Now. This is in Utah. Most people who go to Utah do go to Arches national park when they're doing that national park strip. But a lot of people skip Canyonlands because it is slightly farther drive. But it is totally worth it. This park stands out because there are easy, short hikes for people who aren't really hikers but want to feel like they are. Mesa Arch is a good one. It takes 30 minutes. Just over half a mile.

Unknown (25:53)

Easy.

Sally French (25:54)

Yeah, easy. I love it. There are fun, harder hikes. Some of these require even some scrambling, so you really feel like you're a big outdoor adventure. 10 out of 10 recommend.

Unknown (26:03)

Okay, I'm a little scared of scrambling. Mine is actually also a park that is easy for people at of all levels, fitness and outdoors comforts. So I'm Going to recommend Assateague Island National Seashore. Have you heard of it?

Sally French (26:18)

Oh, no, I have not. Where is it?

Unknown (26:20)

Okay, so it's in Maryland. It's actually, like, Maryland, Virginia. It is a barrier island. So it's, like, right next to the ocean. And it is so cool because it has wild horses. The, like, local folklore is that, like, these horses came off of a shipwreck, and now they just live on this island and have truly taken over.

Megan Coyle (26:39)

They are so cute.

Unknown (26:41)

You know, you're not supposed to go near wild horses, but honestly, they come to you sometimes. Like, they're really smart, and they will try and open all of your food. And the rangers go around with little spray bottles as if they're cats. And it just, oh, my gosh, please get away from the people. But anyways, Azteague Island National Seashore is awesome. You can camp there. It's very flat. It has beaches, so you can see the wild horses run on the beach. There's also kayaking in the ocean. There's dunes. It's a great place to break out your kite and fly kite on the beach. And it's not super hilly. There's not a lot of terrain change. So, you know, you can do this very easy and just go for, like, walks on the beach, or you could do some more intense hikes and maybe see some horses on the way.

Sally French (27:25)

All right, up next, we typically. Usually would reserve this part for our hot takeoffs, but I wanted to do something different. I want to go for some national parks trivia. What do you think, Megan?

Unknown (27:34)

I love trivia. Honestly. I'm ready.

Sally French (27:36)

I have four trivia questions for you. I'm gonna quiz you.

Unknown (27:39)

Okay.

Sally French (27:39)

So I do want to mention, for this trivia block, we are only talking about true national parks. I am not talking about something like national monuments, which NPS does oversee. So let's just. Just note for all the answers. We're tailoring this to true national parks.

Unknown (27:53)

Okay.

Sally French (27:54)

Okay.

Unknown (27:54)

Not that those national monuments don't count. Those are some really cool places to visit.

Sally French (27:57)

We love them, too. But I had. I had to dial it down.

Unknown (28:00)

Okay.

Sally French (28:00)

All right, so first question. What was the first national park in the United States?

Unknown (28:05)

Oh, man.

Sally French (28:06)

Your choices are. I'm going to give you four choices.

Unknown (28:08)

Okay.

Sally French (28:09)

Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Yosemite, or Great Smoky Mountains. Hmm.

Unknown (28:15)

I'm going to say Yellowstone.

Sally French (28:17)

Ooh. Ding, ding, ding. All right, you can keep your job. Yellowstone was the first national park. It was established in 1872.

Unknown (28:26)

Very cool. I just thought it was, like, the biggest, most prominent one. In my mind. So I was like, it's got to be this one, right?

Sally French (28:32)

Okay, smart guess. All right, number two, which national park got the most visitors in 2023? I'm going to be lazy. I'm going to give you the same exact multiple choices. Again, those are Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Yosemite, or Great Smoky Mountains. I will note that this straddles Tennessee and North Carolina.

Unknown (28:49)

Is that a hint that it straddles Tennessee and North Carolina? Oh, man.

Sally French (28:53)

Definitely not.

Unknown (28:55)

I'm going to read into this too much, aren't I? Okay, so here's my thinking. Like, Yosemite and Grand Canyon are pretty accessible from the cities. Yellowstone seems harder to get to, but it is the biggest. And now I know the oldest. Great Smoky Mountains is huge. But you did put in the thing about it being on two states, so maybe it's easy for people from two states to get there. Oh, boy, this one's hard. I'm gonna go with Grand Canyon.

Sally French (29:24)

Okay. Actually, I was nervous that my giveaway gave it away, but it kind of did. Great Smoky Mountains did have the most visitors. 2023.

Unknown (29:33)

Oh, I had no idea.

Sally French (29:35)

Yes. Over 13 million. That's actually almost triple what Grand Canyon got.

Unknown (29:40)

Whoa. That's so surprising to me because I've been to Great Smoky Mountains, and, like, it didn't feel crowded at all. It's a really big park, so.

Sally French (29:47)

Yeah, it's so busy. That's why. Yeah, right. I agree.

Unknown (29:50)

Okay.

Sally French (29:50)

Yeah. So Grand Canyon was the second most visited, so you get like, a half a point.

Unknown (29:54)

Okay.

Sally French (29:55)

Followed by Zion and then Yellowstone in spot number four. In case people are interested, Rocky Mountain rounded out the top five.

Unknown (30:02)

Oh, cool.

Sally French (30:02)

Okay, I have two more questions for you. Number three, which is the newest national park in the U.S. i'm going to give you some new options. New River Gorge national park and Preserve. That's in West Virginia. Indiana Dunes national park in Indiana. Pinnacles national park in California, or White Sands national park in New Mexico. Ooh.

Unknown (30:24)

Okay. So part of me thinks it's Pinnacles because I remember President Obama made that one a national park. And I've been there. It's kind of recent, but I kind of remember my family going to the one in West Virginia and maybe mentioning it was very new. So I'm gonna go with New River Gorge National Park.

Sally French (30:42)

Very good guess. You are correct.

Unknown (30:43)

Yes.

Sally French (30:43)

That became.

Unknown (30:44)

Yes, nice.

Sally French (30:45)

That became the 63rd national park. It became a national park in 2020. Not sure what your family did there, but the Internet tells me it's known for whitewater rafting. Rock climbing. And that massive bridge which you can see on West Virginia's State quarter.

Unknown (30:59)

Yeah, they did go on that bridge, so that is what I remember. Awesome. I.

Sally French (31:03)

Okay, okay, last one. Best one. What is the smallest national park options? Hot Springs national park in Arkansas. Gateway Arch National park in St. Louis. Virgin Islands national park. Or Bryce Canyon National Park, Gateway Arch.

Unknown (31:18)

National park in St. Louis.

Sally French (31:20)

Too easy.

Unknown (31:21)

Too easy. Yeah.

Sally French (31:23)

So it's like, basically just the arch in the surrounding area. Some people really argue it should just be a national monument instead. But, hey, it's got the title.

Unknown (31:31)

Yeah. Wait, have you been there?

Sally French (31:32)

Yes, of course. I've been a million times. It's so fun.

Unknown (31:34)

Oh, very cool. I'll have to.

Sally French (31:35)

I mean, you just, like, go to St. Louis and you just, like, wander around. You can go up. I've only been inside once because you have to get tickets.

Unknown (31:40)

Yeah, and it's like.

Sally French (31:41)

It's kind of claustrophobic, to be honest.

Unknown (31:42)

When we were prepping for this episode, I was like, wait, there's actually some national parks in cities. That's one of them. I'm from the Washington, D.C. area, and the National Mall is technically a national park with all the monuments. So I was like, whoa, this is cool. There's actually some really accessible ones if you don't want to go way out into nature.

Sally French (32:00)

Right? Exactly. All right, well, I hope you enjoyed playing my trivia game. And, listeners, I want to hear from you. How did you do on the trivia? Tell us about your top national parks trips, anything, how you saved money. Email us@travelnerdwallet.com or you could even leave a voice memo. This is cool because I'm inclined to play your voice back on the show.

Unknown (32:19)

In addition to giving us your feedback, come back for more by following the show on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio.

Sally French (32:27)

That allows you to automatically download next week's episode and all future episodes to come.

Unknown (32:32)

This episode was produced by Hilary Georgi and Tess Baglin. Claire Sosi helped with fact checking. And a big thank you to NerdWallet's.

Sally French (32:38)

Editors for all their help and our little disclaimer. We are not financial or investment advisors. This info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes. It may not apply to your specific circumstances.

Unknown (32:49)

Thanks for listening. We hope you're inspired to keep your passport full and your wallet even full. Fuller. See you next episode.