What “Amazing Race” Host Phil Keoghan Learned from a Life of Travel (“Powering Travel” Episode)

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Smart Travel: Upgrade Your Getaways<br>
Episode: What “Amazing Race” Host Phil Keoghan Learned from a Life of Travel (“Powering Travel” Episode)
Date: December 17, 2025
Hosts: Sally French, Meghan Coyle (NerdWallet Travel), Elizabeth Goodrich (Expedia Powering Travel)<br>
Guest: Phil Keoghan, Host & Executive Producer of "The Amazing Race"

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with Phil Keoghan, the iconic host of "The Amazing Race," about the lifelong lessons and enduring curiosities he’s gained from traveling to over 140 countries. The conversation, hosted by Elizabeth Goodrich for Expedia’s Powering Travel (spotlighted on Smart Travel), dives into what makes travel transformative, the power of human connection across cultures, and how mishaps can create the most memorable adventures. Listeners will find firsthand, practical reflections on traveling with purpose, embracing curiosity, and intentionally unplugging for a deeper journey.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Phil Keoghan’s Early Travel Roots and Family Adventures

• Upbringing across continents:

  • Phil shares how his parents’ careers in plant science led the family from a remote New Zealand town to Canada, then on to Antigua, and even Colombia.
  • Childhood trips included cross-country van excursions across North America, striving to visit every national park.
  • “My dad’s goal was to go to every national park in North America. … My sister and I just absolutely fell in love with adventure and travel.” (Phil, 03:08)

• Early lessons:

  • Exposure to diverse people and cultures from a young age fostered Phil’s curiosity and ease in connecting with others.
  • “There were all sorts of people always in and out of our house. … The one key thing we got from our parents was curiosity to ask questions.” (Phil, 04:48)

2. Curiosity as the Heart of Travel

• Seeking the real, local experience:

  • Phil makes a point to ask locals where they eat, drink coffee, and spend their time, to avoid generic, touristy experiences.
  • Memorable moments are born from spontaneity—like eating Domino’s Pizza at the Sphinx or waking in a treehouse in Costa Rica to fresh coffee delivered on a zipline.
    • “We’re eating Domino's Pizza at the foot of the Sphinx under the shadow of the pyramids…You just kind of take it all in and go, I didn’t see this coming.” (Phil, 06:10)
    • “I hear this guy making this howling sound, coming through the trees on the wire with fresh Costa Rican coffee…the first thing that I woke up to. … I love this.” (Phil, 06:35)

• Travel as transformation:

  • Phil and Elizabeth note how stepping outside your usual environment brings personal growth.
  • “Those are the moments that you realize why it is so important to get out of your regular environment. … It’s transformational.” (Phil, 07:17)

3. Respect, Openness, and Global Connection

• Cultural humility:

  • Phil stresses respect for local customs—honoring dress codes, for example, and asking about traditions rather than passing judgment.
    • “If you are just accepting of difference, if you go to a place where they feel like you should have your shoulders covered, just cover your shoulders. What’s the big deal?” (Phil, 07:27)

• Challenging negative perceptions:

  • He argues media can skew perceptions of foreign countries toward danger and crisis, while travel reveals the overwhelmingly positive and common ground between people.
    • “Most of the time that people who haven’t traveled have seen the rest of the world, it’s when things are going wrong…On Amazing Race, we zero in on the best in humanity.” (Phil, 09:47)

4. Travel as Inspiration and Paying it Forward

• Impact of the Amazing Race:

  • Fans frequently tell Phil that the show inspired them to travel or even pursue global careers.
    • “It means so much when people come up to me and say that they were inspired. … You saw it on the show.” (Phil, 11:21)

• Gratitude for a career of adventure:

  • “I get paid to do something that I would pay to do in my whole career…It is a privilege that I get to do what I get to do.” (Phil, 11:53)

5. Storytelling and Creating Authentic Travel Experiences

• Authenticity over itineraries:

  • Phil encourages travelers (and the industry) to promote off-the-beaten-path experiences.
    • “If you’re looking for something that’s different, then you got to freelance it.” (Phil, 15:34)

• Story as travel currency:

  • He recounts retracing family origins in New Zealand using history as “breadcrumbs” to new adventures:
    • “I used that history as the breadcrumbs…to then venture and discover. … I also didn’t know where those breadcrumbs were gonna lead me. And that was exciting.” (Phil, 15:09)

6. The Importance of Disconnecting in Travel

• Technology and immersion:

  • He reflects on trips with old-school paper maps and little tech, challenging listeners to consider putting devices away to connect with their surroundings and companions.
    • “Our next trip is—we’re throwing away the technology and we’re going old school, back to maps.” (Phil, 17:36)
    • “There’s gonna be a resurgence…of travelers who wanna get back to old school, immerse yourself, and take in the moment…” (Phil, 17:55)

• Industry advice:

  • Hotels and tours should provide the option to disconnect, offering experiences tailored to guests who need a true break from digital noise.
    • “It’s to provide choice. … This is the trip for you.” (Phil, 18:27)

7. Travel Mishaps Make the Best Stories

• Value of ‘fails’ and mishaps:
  • Memorable travel almost always involves something going wrong, which becomes the story you remember and share.
    • “Very rarely do people just talk about everything that was right. … You talk about the stuff that went wrong. … How do you create these memorable moments? You have to put yourself out there.” (Phil, 19:10)

8. Travel Inspiration from Media

• Influences:
  • Phil reflects on Anthony Bourdain, David Attenborough, Jane Goodall, and Jacques Cousteau as key inspirations.
    • “Going back to the old David Attenborough days…he made me want to go places and see things. Inspirational work that she [Jane Goodall] did, traveling with purpose.” (Phil, 21:16)

9. Phil’s Most Practical Hotel Tip

• Safety first:
  • The first thing Phil does in any hotel?
    • “First thing I do is look at the back of the door to see where the fire plan is. … I ask to be booked in a room that is below the seventh floor because the fire truck ladders can only go up to the seventh floor.” (Phil, 23:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On travel and curiosity:
  • “Curiosity, to me, is the best thing, and to me, it’s the best thing about travel.” (Phil, 05:29)
• On disconnecting:
  • “I feel like there’s going to be a resurgence…Travelers are gonna wanna get back to old school, immerse yourself, and take in the moment.” (Phil, 17:55)
• On what makes travel great:
  • “You talk about the stuff that went wrong. … So how do you create these moments to happen? You have to put yourself out there for these things to happen.” (Phil, 19:10)
• On inspiration:
  • “It means so much when people come up to me and say that they were inspired. … There’s a thing online now, hashtag follow…and I just love that.” (Phil, 11:21)
• On safety first:
  • “Literally, the first thing, I open the door and I close it, and then I look at the floor plan. … I ask to be booked in a room that is below the seventh floor because the fire truck ladders can only go up to the seventh floor.” (Phil, 23:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Phil’s childhood and early travel – [02:20] – [04:44]
• Curiosity & local experience stories – [05:29] – [07:17]
• Importance of connecting & positive media – [08:01] – [09:47]
• Amazing Race’s influence & gratitude – [10:37] – [11:53]
• Storytelling for memorable travel – [13:58] – [15:34]
• Choosing to disconnect from tech while traveling – [16:12] – [18:27]
• Travel ‘fails’ and the best stories – [19:10] – [20:43]
• Inspiration from media and icons – [20:57] – [21:54]
• Phil’s hotel safety ritual – [23:13] – [23:46]

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Takeaways

• Make curiosity your compass, and don’t be afraid to go beyond the guidebook.
• Memorable journeys often start when plans go awry—embrace the unknown.
• Respect for local traditions, humility, and connection to people open up the world.
• Consider moments of intentional disconnection to turn travel from escape into meaningful experience.
• Travel shows and media can be powerful springboards for real-world adventures.
• Don’t neglect the little practicalities (like a hotel fire plan!)—safety enables adventure.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Foreign.

[A]

A deep dive into the tips, tools and tactics to maximize your travel dollars. I'm Megan Coyle.

[B]

And I'm Sally French.

[A]

And we're the travel nerds ready to help you plan your next big trip.

[B]

Today we are bringing you a special edition of the show where we are handing it over to our friends at Expedia's Powering Travel Podcast.

[A]

We interviewed the host of that show, Elizabeth Goodrich, on this show a few weeks ago and really enjoyed that conversation. So today you're going to hear more from her, a super cool guest.

[B]

If you are a travel buff, I am guessing you have heard of this guest. It is Phil Kogan. He is host of the Amazing Race.

[A]

I'm fangirling already. When can we get on the show?

[B]

I know, Phil, if you hear us, please put us on the show. I think we would be such good contestants. Anyway. Amazing Race is one of those shows that if you are someone who didn't really think a bunch about traveling, you would after watching it. And I know you listeners are thinking about it no matter what. Of course it is about the competition, but I don't even want to win a million dollars. I just want to go to all those locations with all the people and do those fun competitions along the way.

[A]

Yeah, I want a challenge. Okay, so here's Elizabeth with her conversation with Phil. Enjoy.

[C]

Welcome to the Powering Travel Podcast brought to you by Expedia Group. I'm your host, Elizabeth Goodrich. There are people who like adventure when they travel. And then there's this guy I'm talking about, Phil Kogan. He's the longtime host and executive producer of the Amazing Race. Phil has traveled the world. He's been to more than 140 countries. He's spent his career chasing stories and experiences that push all sorts of boundaries. I can't wait to talk to him. We're going to talk about his adventures and some of the lessons he's learned along the way. So let's welcome him into the studio. Phil, thank you so much for joining us today.

[D]

Thank you.

[C]

You've been on the amazing race for 37 seasons. Coming up to 38 but you've been traveling since you were a kid. In fact, I think you lived all over the world before you were even 10. Could you tell me a little bit about your world travel as a child?

[D]

My parents grew up in a very small town in New Zealand on the south island on the west coast. It's quite a remote place. After my dad finished his doctorate in agronomy, which is a plant science, he was offered a position to go to Canada. He decided that it would be a great opportunity. My sister and I were 2 and 3 and we lived in Guelph in Canada for a number of years. And while we were there, my parents were really into exploring America. So we did a lot of trips in a Volkswagen van, a West failure fitted Volkswagen with the ones with the pop up roof. And they took a sabbatical at one point. And for nine weeks we drove all across North America. My dad's goal was to go to every national park in, in North America. And so we got to the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone and all out of the Yosemite and all the smaller parks in between. And my sister and I just absolutely fell in love with adventure and travel and we looked forward to those adventures. I remember once a bear came and disturbed us in the middle of the night.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

Could there be anything more exciting for.

[D]

Oh, it's so exciting when you're a kid. Mom and dad had to pull the roof down, so we were inside the vehicle. They really instilled in us this sense of exploration. And through them we got to see how my parents interacted with people and how they connected with people. And I think that's where my love of connecting with people came from. My mom and dad got an offer to go down to the Caribbean to an island called Antigua. I absolutely loved growing up in Antigua. I was in the water most days. I learned how to snorkel, how to catch a fish. And while we were there, my parents did a lot of travel to the other islands. Saint Lucia, Barbados, Nevis, Saint Kitts, Anguilla, Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica. My dad actually got a short stint in Colombia. We lived in Cali for a little while. So all of that travel just got me more and more hungry for more and more travel.

[C]

How would you get comfortable in all these different cultures?

[D]

Just my parents had such an ease with people. There were all sorts of people always in and out of our house. And I got to see how at ease they were with connecting with anybody in any situation. One day my dad would be talking to the Prime Minister. My mom would have music students who were Rastafarian in a reggae band. And that obviously rubbed off on my sister and I. We. I think if there was. There was one key thing that we got from our parents, it was curiosity to be curious to ask questions.

[C]

And also, it's so fun when you meet new people to learn all about them.

[D]

Curiosity, to me, is the best thing, and to me, it's the best thing about travel. Working on Amazing Race, going around the world. I'm always asking whoever I'm working with, like, where do you drink coffee? Like, where's your coffee place? I don't want to have coffee in the hotel. I want to go to where they have coffee. Where do you go for lunch? Let's go there. I remember this really surreal experience I had once when we were in Egypt, and we were at the foot of the Sphinx, and we had the Pit Stop there, and the teams were running in, and the guys who were running the jib, they were like, hey, we're going to order some food. Do you want something? And I'm figuring out that they're going to order some Egyptian delicacy.

[C]

Right, of course.

[D]

And next thing, a Domino's delivery turns up. We're eating Domino's Pizza at the foot of the Sphinx under the shadow of the pyramids. And like, well, okay, yeah, don't knock it. This is one of those moments, I guess, that you just kind of, like, take it all in and go, I didn't see this coming.

[C]

I can so see that. The brightly colored box. And then you've got this ornate, amazing man. Yes, man made wonder.

[D]

But these cool, crazy things happen. I remember once we slept up in the trees, 90ft up in the trees in Costa Rica, like a tree house. But the next morning, I can smell, like, fresh coffee. And next thing, I hear this guy making this howling sound, coming through the trees on the wire with fresh Costa Rican coffee. And he brought it into us, and that was the first thing that I woke up to. This is, like, mind blowing. Like, I love this.

[C]

I actually was holding my breath because that story was so vivid, what you just described. And also, I love coffee. And the idea of being in Costa Rica, having this freshly grown, freshly ground.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

Yeah. And those are the moments that you realize why it is so important to get out of your regular environment.

[C]

It's transformational.

[D]

It is transformational. Now, that was much more in line than the Domino's Pizzas in Egypt. Right? Like, what you would expect. Expecting Costa Rica. I always say to people, when you travel, you have to realize it's like going into somebody else's house, you have to be very respectful of their ways. If you are just accepting of difference, if you go to a place where they feel like you should have your shoulders covered, just cover your shoulders.

[C]

Exactly.

[D]

What's the big deal?

[C]

And then ask some questions on why this tradition came to be.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Because then they'll understand that you value what is happening in their world. Right.

[D]

And particularly right now, I feel like in the world, the more that we can connect in the world, the more accepting we'll be of difference. We don't have to agree on everything, but at least it's sort of like, okay, I have my opinion, you have your opinion, but it doesn't mean we can't have a civil conversation about those points of difference. You might worship somebody different or vote for somebody differently, but at the end of the day, there's certain things we have in common. There's certain ways that we can connect without necessarily having to agree on everything, and that's all fine. So I feel like, yeah, particularly right now, for us to connect, it does make us more accepting.

[C]

At home, you have to have a mindset to say, I might be going to a different place that might feel unfamiliar, but I'm going to find one or two things at least to bond with whoever and go from there.

[D]

Yeah. And I feel like the important thing that we do on Amazing Race, which is unique, is most of the time when people who are not traveled see the rest of the world, it's when they see it in the news. And news is about if it bleeds, it leads. So most of the time that people who haven't traveled have seen the rest of the world, it's when things are going wrong. There's civil unrest, there's a big storm, there's pollution, there's protests. There's things that are bleeding, that are then going to lead the news. And then people go, well, I don't want to go there, because look at what's going on there. If the rest of the world only saw the negative things that were going on in America, they would think the same thing about America. But we know there's lots of good things in America.

[C]

So many good things.

[D]

So I feel like on Amazing Race, instead of us zeroing in on what's wrong, we zero in on what's right. We zero in on the best in humanity. We zero in on the best places in the world and why you should go there and why it would be great to leave the comfort of your home. And to travel. And people are surprised. A lot of times in their heads, they think it's so dangerous to go to these different places. And then I remind them that America is not the safest place to in the world. There are other countries that are, on paper, safer, and yet America is a safe place, relatively so. Yeah. I just feel like we're. We've encouraged so many people to travel. Like, let me show you this yesterday. I'm on the. On the plane yesterday.

[C]

All right. So folks who are listening, he's holding up a piece of paper from an airline and Delta.

[D]

I got to give a little call out to Delta because I feel like Delta has stepped up. They're really making an effort with their customers.

[C]

Really good technology, too.

[D]

Yes, very good. So I get this note from Casey. She says she's a Boston based flight attendant. I was traveling with my wife, and she says, thank you, Mr. And Mrs. Cogan, for flying with us. As someone who grew up watching the Amazing Race with my parents, it's one of the things that inspired me to pursue the job that I have so I can travel the world. So it's truly a pleasure to have you both on board today on one of your many travels. I hope you enjoy your flight and thanks again for choosing Delta. And then she gives me the little wings to go with it. But it means so much to me when people come up to me and say that they were inspired. There's a thing online now, hashtag follow, and people will go around the world taking photographs of themselves in locations that I've done standups for Amazing Race in. And I just love that. I'm like, you were inspired to go there because you saw it on the show.

[C]

You're telling a good story as opposed to it bleeds, it leads.

[D]

Thank you. Yes, exactly.

[C]

Also, what I'm hearing is gratitude.

[D]

Very. I get paid to do something that I would pay to do in my whole career. I've been lucky enough to travel, and I do feel that it is a privilege that I get to do what I get to do.

[B]

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[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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[D]

That's why you wreck to share something positive.

[C]

You had said once on a podcast I listened to that. There's nothing like a really good story. Humans are programmed to want to hear a really good story. A good joke, a good aside. I want to connect. Okay, you do these stories so well, but how can we apply that to travel? How could a tour operator kind of tell their destinations to guests in a really great story?

[D]

Well, I think it's about reaching out and saying yes. It's about getting off the beaten path and treading down the unbeaten path. Like, it's about veering off the road a little bit and looking for new and different opportunities. And that comes from connecting with local people and getting an understanding of their world. But in order to do that, you have to reach out. You've got to connect with people at their level. But I think if you're looking for the real difference in travel and you want something authentic, yeah, you've gotta make a little bit of effort to make those things happen. You've gotta create the opportunity. And the opportunity comes from doing a little bit of research, but then also, like, talking to people, getting outside of the resort, outside the bubble. So I just try to encourage people to do something that's unique. Recently, I actually retraced my family history. So I went back to the first Kogan to arrive in New Zealand. And so I used that history as the breadcrumbs, if you like, to then venture and discover. This is the farm where they were, this is where they settled. These are the mountains they went over. This is where my family lived in this place. And there were roads named after my relatives. I found two Kogan roads. There's actually more, but I found a couple of Kogan roads. And then people who knew my. My grandfather and. And spoke to them. And so it was a great way of discovering more about myself. But I also didn't know where those breadcrumbs were gonna lead me. And that was exciting because it was like, you're an explorer, right? As opposed to on Tuesday at 9 o', clock, everybody get on the bus and we're going to this place. And then we'll do this and then we'll do that, like having a strict itinerary again. If people want to do it that way, that's fine. But if you're looking for something that's different, then you got to freelance it.

[C]

You said that the world's gotten a lot smaller since the inception of the Amazing Race. Yes, smaller and more connected. What do you think destinations and hotels can do to make sure the guests are actually getting away from it all?

[D]

Well, I think you have to make a conscious effort to. To disconnect. One of my best friends, Scott Shelley, he's a camera operator that my wife and I have worked with since 1992. Actually. I was literally just on the phone with him the other day, and he'd got back from a motorbike trip. That's how he met his wife. He loves Moto Guzzi motorbikes. He was part of a Moto Guzzi motorbike club. And he saw this woman who had this beautiful Moto Guzzi that was nicer than his, so he struck up a conversation with her. Anyway, long story short, they got two kids, but he just. They went on a trip together because they got distracted with kids for a number of years. And then they decided, you know what, let's pull out the old Moto Guzzis. Let's go back and do it like we did when we were younger. And they went on this trip and he said they were so inspired from this trip. He said, you know what? We realized that there was something missing, and we didn't know what it was, but it was that when we used to travel, we didn't have any technology. We had old school maps, and we would put the old school maps on the tank of our Motorbikes and figure it out. Like, we had to. Like, it was like, so it's problem solving, problem solving. People stopping at intersections and it forces you to connect with people because you've got to go into the gas station, hey, I'm trying to get this so and so. And the map says this. And so he said, literally, our next trip is we're throwing away the technology and we're going old school, back to maps.

[C]

I love it.

[D]

So I do think you have to make an effort. Also, a lot of younger people, too, are embracing the idea of locking the phone away and disconnecting with travel, so many people are about getting the Instagram shot.

[C]

Exactly.

[D]

That they're not actually in that place and immersing themselves in that place, because it's all about getting the picture of being in the place as opposed to communicating, as opposed to just being in there. So I feel like there's going to be a resurgence or I think a lot of travelers are gonna wanna get back to old school, immerse yourself and take in the moment with the person you're with rather than worrying so much about being in your phone.

[C]

So how can hotels or tour guides, how can they help people get away.

[D]

From their phone, filter out all the things that they don't want and to zero in on the things that they do want? To answer your question, it's to provide choice. It's to say, hey, would you like to get away from it all? Have you been stuck to your phone and your computer and your office, inside office for too long and you just feel like letting it all go and disconnecting for a while? This is the trip for you. So it's about providing options where people have the choice to disconnect.

[C]

Right. Right. I've got an easy question. What separates a good travel experience from a great travel experience for you when things go wrong? I would say, okay, so give me a fail.

[D]

Well, if you think about it, when you're sitting around at a dinner table and you're talking about great experiences, travel experiences, very rarely do people sit there and say, well, we went on this trip and every single day it was 75 degrees and the sun was perfect. And, oh, my goodness, the meals that were exquisite and the room, it was just so amazing. And you just talk about everything that was right. Generally speaking, the stories that make it to the table over a few glasses of wine and a nice meal are, oh, my God, you won't believe what happened to us. We went to St. Lucia. Now, we knew it was hurricane season, but we thought, no, we'll be able to slip in just before. So the first three days, perfect. The fourth day, it was like the sky went black. This hurricane rolls in. We were like, what? And now we're stuck there. And they said that the flights were delayed. We find ourselves in the bar at the hotel, lying on the ground, and we meet these people. Oh, great people. As a matter of fact, they've become lifelong friends. And their daughter Jill, we're going to her wedding in San Diego. You talk about the stuff that went wrong. So how do you. How do you create these moments to happen? I'm not saying that you want to go out there and have things go wrong, but moments. How do you create memorable moments? You have to. You have to put yourself out there for these things to happen. So I just encourage people to, again, to veer off the beaten path and just to try something a little different.

[C]

You had mentioned that you were just touched by how many fans of the Amazing Race were traveling or were inspired to go to various different places because of your show. Have you ever been inspired by a television show or movie to make a trip?

[D]

Well, I really miss Anthony Bourdain's show. I love the way that he. He kind of opened your eyes up to seeing a place in a different way. He had a way of. Of traveling and a curiosity that I found hugely inspirational. But going. Going back to the old David Attenborough days when he would travel the world, he made me want to go places and see things. Inspirational work that she did, traveling with purpose. She was a real maverick. I've always loved people who just think a little bit differently. And she was definitely one of those people and who. Who strived to do some good in the world. Cousteau, of course. I remember all the old adventures of. Of Cousteau. I think I would have enjoyed being born as an explorer, like if a couple hundred years ago, I think I would have been somebody who wanted to go explore the world.

[C]

I think you're doing a pretty good job now, though, in terms of exploring the world.

[D]

Yeah, trying.

[C]

But I do. I feel like meeting sp smart people is priceless. And having a conversation and then learning. Having a conversation you've never had before, oh, God, there's nothing better.

[D]

And finding yourself in really bizarre, crazy situations. Like, I remember an Amazing Race. I got permission to go down and shoot where the Terracotta warriors were in the. In the pit.

[C]

Very cool.

[D]

And they said the last person they had allowed to go down there was President Clinton. And I'm like, oh, My goodness. And. And I was so paranoid being down there because they're all lined up, all the soldiers. Well, I was so nervous because we had this Steadicam down there and there was a minder with us, but I just had this terrible thought, like, what would happen if the cameraman accidentally bumped one of the terracotta warriors? And then it was like a domino effect. And we were all just standing there, like, watching this. And I have to say, I had this, like, just a little thing in my head was like, go on, just push it and see what happens. It's like one of those moments. I didn't do it, obviously, because it would have made world news. Of course, I probably wouldn't be hosting the Amazing Race anymore. So do that. But it went through my mind, I'll be honest with you.

[C]

All right, very last question, and this is an easy one. And I'm asking this of all of my guests.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Very first thing. When you check into a hotel or a rental, what is the very first thing you do?

[D]

Well, the very first thing I do is look at the back of the door to see where the fire plan is.

[C]

Actually very, very smart.

[D]

Literally, the first thing, I open the door and I close it, and then I look at the floor plan. Because I've been in hotels before, when there's been an earthquake or a fire alarm, generally I ask to be booked in a room that is below the seventh floor because the fire truck ladders can only go up to the seventh floor. So I don't like to be too high up.

[C]

Thank you so much for talking with us. I could talk to you for such a long time. And that's a wrap on today's episode of the Powering Travel Podcast. Big thanks to Phil for sharing his insights and stories from a lifetime of global travel. It's amazing his perspective on connection and curiosity and getting out of your comfort zone gives us a lot to think about, particularly for those folks in the industry who really want to create more intentional and more memorable travel experiences for their guests. For more interviews like this one, be sure to subscribe to Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, anywhere you listen or watch your favorite podcasts. So thanks for listening to Powering Travel, and I'm your host, Elizabeth Goodridge, and I can't wait to see where you go to next.