156 - The Sort ‘Em Consortium (w/ Jeff Max)

Summary

SmartLess Presents ClueLess: Episode 156 - The Sort ‘Em Consortium (w/ Jeff Max) Release Date: May 26, 2025

Introduction and Guest Welcome

In Episode 156 of SmartLess Presents ClueLess, host Elliott Kalan, an Emmy-winning writer, welcomes special guests Sean Hayes and longtime friend Jeff Max to dive into another session of mind-bending puzzles and engaging discussions. Right from the start, Elliott sets the stage for a challenging yet entertaining episode, promising that "the puzzles in today's show will break you" (00:40).

Recap of Last Episode's Cliffhanger Puzzle

Elliott kicks off the episode by revisiting the cliffhanger puzzle from the previous show, which posed the question:

"I'm at a buffet. Whereas the English would say, buffet. I'm at a buffet. If I've already had ham, eggs, and fries, logically, which food should I eat next?" (02:10)

Sean Hayes and Jeff Max engage in a lively discussion to solve the puzzle, ultimately determining that the next food item should have six letters, leading them to settle on "salads." Elliott confirms their correct reasoning, emphasizing that the puzzle was a test of pattern recognition based on word lengths rather than the foods' nutritional balance (03:09 - 04:06).

Main Game: The Sort ‘Em Consortium – Battle of the Bettys

The core of the episode centers around the main game titled "The Sort ‘Em Consortium," reimagined as "Battle of the Bettys." Elliott presents the challenge:

"I’m going to give you six names, and it's your job to put them in chronological order of when they first appeared on this earth." (06:22)

The six Bettys featured are:

1. Betty Rubble (from The Flintstones)
2. Betty Draper (from Mad Men)
3. Betty White (the beloved actress)
4. Betty Ford Center (the renowned addiction treatment center)
5. Betty Rizzo (from Grease)
6. Bette Davis (the iconic actress)

Sean and Jeff work collaboratively to arrange these Bettys by their inception dates. Their dynamic interaction showcases their problem-solving skills and chemistry. Notable moments include Sean’s playful banter and Jeff’s insightful contributions:

• Sean Hayes: “Betty Rizzo is the 70s.” (08:08)
• Jeff Max: “Betty White is 1922.” (09:25)

After a thoughtful exchange, they successfully order the Bettys:

1. Bette Davis (1908)
2. Betty White (1922)
3. Betty Rubble (1959)
4. Betty Rizzo (1978)
5. Betty Ford Center (1982)
6. Betty Draper (2007)

Elliott praises their teamwork, highlighting their accurate sequencing despite minor discrepancies in the years (11:35 - 12:38).

Final Round: Mega Clue

Transitioning to the final segment, Elliott introduces the "Mega Clue" round—a rapid-fire guessing game. He provides up to five clues about another famous Betty, challenging Sean and Jeff to identify her with minimal hints. The first clue is simple:

1. Clue 1: "I am a fictional character." (13:03)

Jeff quickly deduces the answer:

• Jeff Max: “Betty Crocker.” (13:54 - 14:02)

Elliott confirms Jeff’s swift and accurate response, adding a humorous note about Betty Crocker's fictional status and teasing a future discussion about Little Debbie (14:08 - 14:20).

Cliffhanger Puzzle: Samesies Challenge

Before concluding, Elliott introduces the episode's cliffhanger puzzle—a "Samesies" challenge requiring listeners to find the common thread between seemingly unrelated words. The puzzle presented is:

"Pack, mall, rug. What brings these words together?" (14:57 - 15:10)

Listeners are left to ponder this intriguing puzzle until the next episode, encouraging ongoing engagement and anticipation (15:22).

Conclusion and Credits

Elliott wraps up the episode with heartfelt thanks to Jeff Max for being a great guest and to Sean Hayes for his consistent participation. He also acknowledges the dedicated production team behind the scenes, ensuring listeners are aware of the collaborative effort that makes each episode possible (16:03).

Notable Quotes:

• Elliott Kalan: “Before we begin today's episode, it's time for Clueless annual pledge break. That's when I pledge that the puzzles in today's show will break you.” (00:40)
• Sean Hayes: “Wouldn't be the first time.” (01:07)
• Jeff Max: “Betty Crocker.” (13:54)
• Elliott Kalan: “You got the order exactly right. Great work together.” (12:39)

Final Thoughts

Episode 156 of SmartLess Presents ClueLess masterfully blends intellectual challenges with lighthearted banter, making it a captivating listen for puzzle enthusiasts and casual fans alike. Elliott Kalan, along with Sean Hayes and Jeff Max, deliver an episode that is both entertaining and mentally stimulating, ensuring listeners are eagerly awaiting the next installment.

Transcript

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[Jeff Max]

Smart.

[Sean Hayes]

Bless me.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Before we begin today's episode, it's time for Clueless annual pledge break. That's when I pledge that the puzzles in today's show will break you. This is Clueless.

[Sean Hayes]

Nice.

[Jeff Max]

Clueless.

[Sean Hayes]

Clueless.

Gang, gang. Gang, gang, gang. Clueless. Oh, no. Oh, Jeff Max. Oh, sorry, I skipped. Sorry. Go ahead, Elliot. Sorry.

[Elliot Kaelin]

I look at Jeff Max stealing the jingle.

[Sean Hayes]

Wouldn't be the first time.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Welcome to Smartless presents Clueless, the greatest puzzle podcast you'll listen to today. My name is Elliot Kaelin, and I dreamed I hosted this podcast in my maiden form, bra. Now please welcome the man who pretends he's just an average Joe, but really he's an average Sean. Sean Hayes. Thanks for joining us, Sean Boy, isn't that the truth?

[Sean Hayes]

I am an average. Well, you heard a little something from our guest today, Jeff Max, who's here, an old friend of mine. And I mean old old.

[Elliot Kaelin]

I feel like the audience at home was finishing that joke as well with everybody. I like it.

[Jeff Max]

That was everybody, everybody participation joke.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. That was the first puzzle. Guess which word I'm gonna enunciate.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Thank you so much for being with us, Jeff. Sean, as always, of course, thank you for being the star of the show, but I want everyone to remain calm. Last episode's cliffhanger is hanging around the studio, kind of looking, threatening, demanding we solve it while or else I don't know what it means by or else. Frankly, I don't want to find out what it means by or else, so I think we better do what it says. Let's solve this cliffhanger puzzle from last episode.

[Sean Hayes]

Good.

[Elliot Kaelin]

You may remember, last episode was a food puzzle that went thusly. I'm at a buffet. Whereas the English would say, buffet. I'm at a buffet. If I've already had ham, eggs, and fries, Logically, which food should I eat next?

[Sean Hayes]

Okay. All right. Ham Eggs and fries. Ham.

[Jeff Max]

Eggs.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, does it have to do with, like, you know, like an animal, like a protein and I don't know, because eggs comes from an animal.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Wait, Tuck it up together. Does not have to deal with animal proteins. It doesn't have to do with whether this is a balanced meal or not.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jeff Max]

Ham, eggs, and fries.

[Sean Hayes]

No, no, no, no. Cause that was like, the last one.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Yes, those are the letters. But no, that's not. But I like that you're. That's not the answer. But I like that you're thinking about. I like that you're thinking about letters. This is another one of our kind of trick questions where it's more about maybe the forms of the words than it is about the meanings of the words.

[Sean Hayes]

Jeff is just checking in to see how his English is going.

[Jeff Max]

Eggs. Okay, so three letters, four letters, five letters.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, nice. So six.

[Jeff Max]

Six letters.

[Sean Hayes]

So six. That's what it is. So. So it would be. It could be anything. It could be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. It could be. It could be sausage, S, A, U, S, A. No, that's seven.

[Jeff Max]

How about salads?

[Sean Hayes]

Salads.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Salads. We'll allow it. You're exactly right. Great work, Jeff. It's three letters, four letters, five letters. So any food with six letters could be celery, banana, almond cereal, garlic cheese. Salads also worked. Multiple salads.

[Jeff Max]

Yes, Multiple salads. Like a potato salad.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, that's 11 letters, but yeah.

[Elliot Kaelin]

And it's just one salad.

[Sean Hayes]

That's one.

[Elliot Kaelin]

But you already solved it, so it's okay. You don't need to come up with more.

[Jeff Max]

Oh, right, right, right, right.

[Elliot Kaelin]

It's a great job.

[Jeff Max]

It's over.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Don't sell past the close.

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[Elliot Kaelin]

Get yours.

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[Elliot Kaelin]

Listeners, did you get the answer? If not, that's okay. The only thing that matters is that you're safe because it means you'll be able to play today's main game, the Sordum Consortium.

[Sean Hayes]

It's the Sorghum Sorghum Consortium.

Put them in order.

Won't you take my advice?

Oh my gosh.

0, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Get along there. So that's.

[Sean Hayes]

I mean, when does the album come out?

[Jeff Max]

Seriously, I want to do a line dance.

[Elliot Kaelin]

I love. At some point there has to be some. Yeah, some kind of clueless album.

[Jeff Max]

So good.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Our producer Devin makes all of these and just, just probably 50 or 68 second tracks that you can put on at parties or just listen to on a drive.

[Jeff Max]

The genres. The genres.

[Elliot Kaelin]

This is a workout mix. Anyway, the Sorghum Consortium, as that, as that, as that rollicking square dance tune told us, is a game of sorting things. And also consortiums, I guess I don't know what that is. I'm going to give you six names and it's your job to put them in chronological order of when they first appeared on this earth. So for example, if the theme was bills, and this is just the example, if the theme was bills and I gave you Bill Gates, Bill Shatner and Bill Shakespeare, what would be the right order of those bills to put them from earliest to latest in their appearance on this earth?

[Jeff Max]

Okay, so Shakespeare, Shatner and Gates.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Got it. That's right. The answer would be Shakespeare, Shatner and Gates. Also the name of their law firm. Today's Sordum Consortium is not about Bills. It is a battle of the Bettys. That's right, six Bettys. You're gonna put them in not alphabetical order, but instead, thank you. Instead, again, the order of their first appearance. Some of these are real Betty's, some are fictional Bettys. Oh, so I want when they first appeared. So do you understand you're gonna order these things? So let's get ready to Betty Sordum.

[Jeff Max]

Sordom.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Here are your six famous Bettys. They are Betty Rubble.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Betty Draper from Mad Men, Betty White, the Betty Ford Center. Betty Rizzo from Greece. A lot of people forget her name was Betty.

[Sean Hayes]

Jeff was in Greece, who was Daniel, like, 25 times. Yeah.

[Elliot Kaelin]

So you'll know this. And finally, Bette Davis. So Betty Rubble, Betty Draper from Mad Men, Betty White, the Betty Ford Center, Betty Rizzo from Grease, and Bette Davis. Can you work together to put them in order of their first, earliest existences?

[Sean Hayes]

All right, so let's deal with the easiest, gayest one first. So Betty Rizzo was.

[Jeff Max]

Betty Rizzo was.

[Sean Hayes]

70S. 70s. Right. Because. But wasn't Greece written in the 60s or. No, Grease.

[Jeff Max]

I think Greece was.

[Elliot Kaelin]

It was part of this kind of 70s, 50s revival.

[Jeff Max]

You know, I think it was written in the 70s.

[Sean Hayes]

About the 50s.

[Jeff Max]

About the 50s and 60s.

[Sean Hayes]

Right. All right.

[Jeff Max]

They used to drive around the car.

[Sean Hayes]

So I. I thought it was written in the 60s. And then we all saw the movie in the 70s.

[Jeff Max]

No, we saw the movie in 77, but the play came out in, like, had to be four years before if John Travolta was duty in the tour. And before he was.

[Sean Hayes]

Wait, was he really? Was he really.

[Jeff Max]

Yeah, he was doing.

[Sean Hayes]

In Greece.

[Jeff Max]

Yeah. So I would say 72.

[Sean Hayes]

71 would be 70s. Okay, okay, seven.

[Elliot Kaelin]

I was going. I was gonna shorten that because I. And. And clarify. We're going for the movie. But that conversation was everything I wanted it to be. So I'm so glad that I didn't.

[Jeff Max]

That was. That's called gay.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jeff Max]

Okay, so Betty rizzo is the 70s. So Betty. Bette Davis has to be the 30s or the 20s. Right. Because she was in silent films before.

[Elliot Kaelin]

I'll clarify. We're talking about when they. Not just when they first became famous, but when they first kind of like.

[Jeff Max]

Right, so that's the 1900s.

[Sean Hayes]

No, when they. When they were born.

[Elliot Kaelin]

When they were born, like.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jeff Max]

Okay, well, okay, so Betty White is 100.

[Sean Hayes]

So we know that's, you know, like 90. That's. What. What's 100? That's.

[Jeff Max]

That's 1925.

[Sean Hayes]

1925. Yeah. Something around that. Yeah.

[Jeff Max]

Okay, so 1925. Betty. Bette Davis has to be 1900 because she was probably 20 in the. In the.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, right, right, right.

[Jeff Max]

1900.

[Sean Hayes]

And then. And then when did you go to the Ford?

[Jeff Max]

1977.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay, great.

[Jeff Max]

Okay, so Ford took over for Nixon in 74. And Betty. That had to be, like, a little after, because didn't she. Didn't she create it?

[Sean Hayes]

Who did?

[Jeff Max]

Betty. So Gerald Ford's wife. Betty Ford.

[Sean Hayes]

She had. She had addiction issues.

[Jeff Max]

She had addiction issues. But I don't think that the Betty Ford Clint was created until after he was out of office. So I would say, like. So let's just say. Let's say 1975. 76.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay, great. Draper is, you know, much later. She's probably the last one.

[Jeff Max]

She's the last one.

[Sean Hayes]

And then Betty Rubble was. That had to be the 70s, too. That was the Flintstones or the 60s. Oh, maybe it was the 60s. I never liked that show.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Really.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, I mean, as a kid, I was like, I'd rather watch, you know, something else.

[Jeff Max]

Okay, so I'll just step in.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Not to interrupt your flow. I would agree. When I was a kid, it always threw me that I was a cartoon with a laugh track on it. That always.

[Sean Hayes]

That's what I'm saying. I was. I was out.

[Jeff Max]

Loved it. Loved it. Kazoo. Okay, 19.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Well, so your favorite part of the Flintstones was near the end when they had the alien, and it was crazy.

[Jeff Max]

Hello, Dum dum. Okay, so I would say.

[Sean Hayes]

So let's do. Why don't we do. So the first one is Davis.

[Jeff Max]

Yes.

[Sean Hayes]

So that's our number one. Are you keeping track, Elliot?

[Elliot Kaelin]

I'm keeping track, and for some reason, we number these 0 to 5, but it doesn't matter. Just use. Use whatever numbers you have.

[Jeff Max]

Okay?

[Sean Hayes]

Okay.

[Elliot Kaelin]

But you have Davis first.

[Jeff Max]

Betty Davis is zero.

[Sean Hayes]

Davis is zero. Betty White. Next would be Betty White.

[Jeff Max]

Yes.

[Sean Hayes]

Then Rubble.

[Jeff Max]

Betty Rubble.

[Sean Hayes]

Then Rizzo. Then the thing.

[Jeff Max]

Betty Ford.

[Sean Hayes]

And then Draper.

[Jeff Max]

Betty Draper.

[Elliot Kaelin]

You got it exactly right. Excellent work. Some of your years were a little off, but that doesn't matter. The order is all that counts. You got the order exactly right. Great work together.

[Sean Hayes]

That was amazing.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Great thinking.

[Jeff Max]

That was good. What are the years? Can you tell us?

[Elliot Kaelin]

So the official years, according to what I've been told by our puzzle maker, Bette Davis, born in 1908. You're exactly right. It's 1900s. Because her heyday was really the 30s and 40s. Betty White, born in 1922. You're almost exactly right. About 100 years ago. Betty Rubble. This is listed as 1959. That's when the 1959 was, when the Splitstones pilot was put out, when you could still have cigarette ads in a cartoon, which they did at the time. Yeah, sure. Then you have Betty Rizzo from Greece in 1978. The movie comes out. The Betty Ford center, doesn't open till 1982.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, wow.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Betty Draper and Mad Men. The first episode is in 2007.

[Jeff Max]

So you were going Betty Rizzo by the movie, not by.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Not by the play. But it's okay because it was still. It's the same decade. This film's place in the order.

[Jeff Max]

All right, well, we got it.

[Sean Hayes]

We won.

[Elliot Kaelin]

You got it all. You got it all.

[Sean Hayes]

That was incredible. Wow, Jeff. Max is smart. Turns out 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.

[Elliot Kaelin]

And 5amazing teamwork together. Unfortunately, while there's no I in team, there is a me hidden in the word team. And this cooperative game is about to get competitive in today's mega Clue.

[Jeff Max]

Mega clue question.

[Elliot Kaelin]

So for the final round in the battle of the Betty's, I'm going to give you up to five clues about another famous Betty. Whoever can guess the identity of this Betty in the least number of clues. This is kind of name that tune style game playing. Whoever can guess it in the least number of clues wins the mega clue in the game. And you get all the credit for the main game. The other teammate loses the doesn't matter.

[Jeff Max]

Oh, no.

[Elliot Kaelin]

The clues will start obscure and become more specific. And I'll start with one big hint about this Betty. Keep in mind, her first name is Betty. Okay, and now onto the clues. That was it. Clue number one. I am a fictional character.

[Sean Hayes]

Boop.

[Elliot Kaelin]

What?

[Sean Hayes]

Boop.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Good guess, but wrong. That is another fictional character. Another fictional Betty. I am a fictional character. Although I guess she's real in all our hearts. Clue number one. I am a fictional character created by a brand over a hundred years ago.

[Jeff Max]

Betty Crocker.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Oh. I didn't even have to finish the clue.

[Sean Hayes]

Are you serious? How did you get that?

[Jeff Max]

Because he said a fictional brand.

[Sean Hayes]

All right, calm down.

[Jeff Max]

You hate when I win.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Jeff, you're exactly right. I didn't even have to finish the first clue. The answer is Betty Crocker. Condolences to those of our listeners who are just learning now that Betty Crocker is not a real person. I've got some very bad news for you about Little Debbie. We can talk about it after the show.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, Little Debbie.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Listeners, did you do as well in these games as Sean and Jeff? If so, I take back everything I said about your grandmother. Why don't you invite her over to join us as we discover today's cliffhanger puzzle. The cliffhanger puzzle is a sign of how dedicated we are to entertaining you every single moment you're alive. And today's puzzle is one of our patented samesies. I'm gonna give you three seemingly unrelated things, and I want you to tell me what secret thing makes them Samesies. Are you ready to hear what these three things are?

[Sean Hayes]

Yes.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Three things are. Number one, pack the word pack, as in, pass me that pack of cigarettes so I can throw them away.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Number two, mall, as in, you know, a shopping center.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay.

[Elliot Kaelin]

And finally, number three, rug, as in, oh, no, not on the rug. So what brings these words together? What makes pack, mall, and rug? Samesies.

[Sean Hayes]

All right, great.

[Elliot Kaelin]

We'll find out the answer on the next episode.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh. See everybody later.

[Elliot Kaelin]

Yeah. Bye, guys. Boy, we sure did learn a lot today. In fact, we learned everything, which means we have to go and let the world invent some new facts for us to make games out of for the next episode. But before we end the show, I'd like to thank Jeff Max, who is brought to you by the letter G for great guest. I'd also like to thank Sean Hayes, who is brought to you by the letter S for Sean Hayes. And I'd like to thank you both the beginning and the end of the name. And I'd like to thank you, the listener who was brought to us by listeners like you. Until next time, this has been Smartless presents Clueless. And I've been your host, Elliot Kaelin, speaking for pbs, the podcast that broadcasts stuff. Yeah, that was nice.

[Sean Hayes]

Clueless, you have been listening to Smartless presents Clueless, a Smartless Media production in association with SiriusXM. Your host is Elliot Kaelin, who also writes our scripts. Your company. Your constant contestant is Sean Hayes, who does like candy. Your producer, editor and engineer is Devin Tory Bryant, who is me. I also write all the music and sound effects. Assistant engineer, Kyle McGraw. Today's puzzles were written by Kevin Lehman and myself. Talent producer is Anne Harris. Associate producer Matty McCann. Social media producer, Tommy Galgano. Executive producers are Elliot Kaelin, Sean Hayes, Will Arnett and Jason Bateman. Executive producers for Smartless Media are Richard Corson and Bernie Kaminski. Remember to follow subscribe Rate Review the show. It really helps. That's all for now. We will see you again for more smart, less medium.

[JBL Representative]

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[Elliot Kaelin]

Get yours.