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For many men, mental health challenges aren't recognized until they've already taken a toll. Work pressure, financial stress, changing relationships, and traditional expectations around masculinity can quietly wear men down, often without clear warning signs. In season three of the Visibility Gap, Dr. Guy Winch and his guests explore how these pressures show up, how to spot them earlier, and how men can access meaningful support. Listen to the new season of the Visibility Gap, a podcast presented by Cigna Healthcare. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first but didn't live up to the hype? Yeah, I wasted a lot of money buying a car when I was 21 years old. I spent way too much on it. It just. It never worked and I didn't know what I was doing. Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great, like impressions, but they don't see revenue. LinkedIn has a word for that bull. Spend Instead. You can get the highest roas of major ad networks with LinkedIn ads. Cut the bowl. Spend. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com smartless Terms apply. This episode of Smartless is brought to you in part by SkinnyPop Popcorn. You know when you want a snack that tastes great but you don't want it to spiral a full life decision type thing, there is always that crossroads. You want salty. You want satisfying. You also want to avoid the feeling of needing to explain yourself afterward. That is where Skinny Pop quietly wins. Start with original Skinny Pop. It's made with just three simple ingredients, which feels refreshing in a world where labels require a translator. Sweet and Salty Kettle gives you that perfect balance when you cannot commit to just one direction. And butter is built for movie nights, game nights, or nights when productivity is officially cancele. No matter which bag you open, Skinny Pop is light, airy, and endlessly delicious. It feels uncomplicated. It tastes indulgent. That is the balance. So I've talked a lot about grabbing Skinny Pop for movie night. You know what I do sometimes? I replace potato chips with Skinny Pop popcorn. I'll make myself a peanut butter sandwich or whatever. A tuna fish sandwich. And I'll put a side of Skinny
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Deliciously popped, perfectly salted Skinny Pop. Popular for a reason.
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Hey, everybody.
A
Hey.
B
Oh, my goodness. Are we in a good mood today?
C
We are. I mean, you were shot out of a cannon.
B
I was shot out of a cannon. I'm all fired up. We get to do some potting today.
C
Yeah.
B
And I'm so Excited you two are here for this. You're gonna have such a hoot. What we do is that little foam thingy in of your mouth. You just speak into that. We're going to have somebody of interest coming on soon. You're going to be able to ask any questions that you might have, and they should respond in a somewhat informative way.
C
Nobody's left. Nobody's going to listen now.
B
You think they've turned the dial? Well, then let's hurry up and get the guest out here. Come on.
C
Welcome to Smart, Smart, Smart, Smart. Less.
A
What is that from?
B
Well.
C
Hi.
A
Hi.
C
That's like, smart list.
A
Oh, my Jesus. Isn't that a. Isn't that. Don't they use that in sport? Sports things.
B
Yeah.
C
Hey, Sean. Yeah? Are you doing an ad for All American Guy? You just took a big gulp of milk and now you took a bite of an apple.
A
Yeah, I just got back.
C
What happened? You ran out of Pop Tarts.
B
Dude hit the horn again. There you go.
C
Yeah.
B
Hey, did Archie give you that app or something? Is that next to the fart one?
C
No, man. I. I've had it for a long time, embarrassingly enough.
A
Did I tell you somebody gave me a box of Pop Tarts outside the stage door?
C
Did they really?
B
Yeah.
A
It was the greatest gift. It was a crowd. There was. There was a bow around it. There was a bow. And I was like, that was the nicest gift ever.
B
And did security tackle them?
A
No. Remember when we went on tour and that somebody handed me a sandwich and I ate it and Jason was, like, trying to do. I remember that. We got in the car. You're like, why would you ever eat a sandwich from somebody off the street? You're trying.
C
You're trying to get me to remember the time that you ate a sandwich.
A
No, no, no.
C
I just kind of heighten it if it's. If it's not. If it's dragged across the.
B
It needs a little punch.
C
I know. By the way, it should be noted. I te. I texted jb I'm going to embarrass him. The boys and I. Art and I watched that first episode of Detail. He's so good.
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Wait, listen.
C
Jason, you're so good.
A
Listen.
C
Playing a simp. Go ahead, Sean.
A
I mean, I, I, I, I almost. Jay. It's like one of those incredible, powerful performances.
B
Oh, my God.
A
That I felt like when I saw Willie do his movie, too. Where I'm looking at you right now. I've known you for 75,000 years, and I don't. I don't Know who you are. Like, it was so unbelievably a different person that I did not believe I was watching you.
B
It. Last night.
A
I finished the whole series.
C
Yeah. How do you have all the. How do you have them all? He gave.
B
I gave him mine.
C
I. We. We finished. We finished the first episode and I turned to the boys and I said. I literally looked at my go. How many episodes away are we from Jason getting pegged.
B
Pretty close.
A
I could go on and on.
C
I know.
A
It's so good. I was in tears at the end because I was so proud of my friend Jason.
C
Really good. Everybody's great. Linda Cardellini is amazing. Or David Harbour. Really great.
A
David Harbour's great.
C
Everybody's great. I'm not comparing anybody. But Jason, you're so good in this part. I honestly appreciate it.
A
And it's so. I mean, what were you.
C
And it's not surprising it should be noted, too, because, you know, when people go, you were really good.
B
Always hurts.
A
But I texted Jason yesterday, last night, about, like, what a huge swing it was to do this. I mean, will. Wait until you see.
C
Don't say it in another word. I don't know. A new one came out last night and I couldn't watch last night, so. Right.
B
It's this guy, Steve Conrad, this writer, director. We'll leave the subject. Sorry, listener, but this guy, Steve Conrad, this writer, director, he's just so creative and, like, daring and. But, like, without being obnoxiously, like, oh, look, how avant garde. And. And no, it's like. It's so. Serves the characters so relatable that it makes it absolutely almost impossible to watch because it's so cringy and real and
A
awkward and so much so, I woke up today, I started doing just regular whatever tasks, thinking about DTF St. Louis and these characters, and I'm like, were
B
you sitting on Scotty's face?
C
Those are his regular tasks.
A
Where do you.
C
Where do you check?
A
Wait a minute. Yeah, yeah, that's a little precursor what happens.
B
But anyways, you're very nice. Thank you, man. Willie, it's nice to have you back in the States. You made it. Is there any issues at the border? Or was it. Was it pretty smooth?
C
Still good?
B
Still good?
C
Still good? Yeah.
B
Okay.
C
Yeah. All right, so I'm in. Good. I'm in. Good. Standing.
B
Your bronzer still.
C
Look.
B
You haven't run out of that?
C
No, no, it's good. It's a little streaky because I can't get behind. I can't see. And my feet, obviously, my Feet are always a mess when I get sprayed this much.
A
I used to go to that thing all the time.
B
Did you used to go to those
A
things in the boxes?
C
I've never done it. No, I've literally never done it.
B
Do you remember that episode Arrested Development when David Cross had to blow himself? Or blew it. He says, I just blew myself. He had to put on his own Blue man makeup. I just read this morning, David's got a brand new comedy special. His ninth one is self releasing on his. On his website and on YouTube. I forget the date, but it's probably on.
C
Cross, go see it.
A
Oh, that's.
B
Yeah, click it.
A
I couldn't forget.
C
I love D. Cross.
A
Wait one time really quick. I went. I went into this dc, Remember.
C
Remember he used to start just dc, especially first year. We'd do something and David go, like, that's so late. Like we. We discussed Jason. I was. Would describe something we did. He'd go, that's pretty lame. And we'd go. We'd go, oh, sorry, street cred. We started calling him Street Cred, which. Which he actually ended up liking. It made him laugh.
A
Hey, street cred coming up.
B
Yeah.
A
Anyway.
C
God, I love him.
A
Shall we?
B
Yeah. I thought you were gonna say something. Shawnee will come too.
A
That subject went too far away. It's about this tanning thing. Because I used to. I was so white when I would have to have an event to go to or something. My makeup lady from Will and Grace, she would come over and cake on tanning stuff on my face, but she forgot. Was it Patty? Yeah, Patti Bunch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's the best. And she forgot to do my hands, so. And I won a SAG Award. And so, you know, you do the line, the photos. I'm holding up the SAG award and my hands are as white as snow and my face is as orange as
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the sun that's up there with. Sometimes in a particularly unemployed summer, I will play a bunch of golf. And the tan difference, I see it now, between the glove hand and the non glove hand is funny. It's very ugly. All right, great. Super. Hashtag relatable.
C
Yeah. First world problems. Extreme. We just lost 50,000 listeners today.
B
We have one of my favorite actors. She always has been. I've had the great fortune of working with her a couple of times, and it is as good in person as it is on film. She is not only an actor, but also a producer and a writer. But not just any writer. This is a playwright and recently a columnist, which we will talk about it's very exciting. After more than 25 years of doing great work, it's even greater right now. She's got a new season of her hit show on Apple starting this spring. She's got a brand new film being released, has a very fancy publication of her essay dropping, and has successfully gotten through yet another year of marriage to a real ding dong. She's a unicorn, folks. And here she is. Please welcome my longtime, nearest and dearest friend, Ms. Amanda. Pete, get out here.
A
Boy, do we have stuff to talk about. Hi, Shawnee.
C
Hi, honey. How are you?
B
I'm okay.
C
Oh, my gosh.
B
You got our mic set up and everything.
D
You guys, I did almost like 25 spit date, and I wasn't sure if I was supposed to.
B
He is prone to a sp.
C
Look at you with a microphone. Look at him.
D
Oh, should I put that down? Sean has his. Oh, you guys all have yours.
A
We're not doing video. This isn't just.
B
That's the one we sent you.
C
I've just never seen you in this environment, so it's. It's all new to me. It's so great to see you. I know.
B
She was like. She said. She sent me a text. She said, can I look like a slob? I go, yeah, I'm in PJs. I'm always in my PJs. The only thing being recorded is your voice.
C
How do you think he only travels in PJs?
D
Wow, you are really tan, Will.
C
I know, I know. I get that a lot.
D
As you know, smoking and sun. Not good.
C
I know. Yeah.
D
Okay, wait, wait.
B
Is it still happening, Will? We're still chipping.
C
Yeah.
B
It's still really annoying that you're so good with. With. With addictions now. I guess you've got. You've got. You've got it all handled. You can just chip away at the cigarettes and it doesn't take over.
C
Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty good.
B
I can't do a little of anything.
C
I know.
D
Me neither. I can't.
C
I generally can't either.
A
How are you, Amanda? How are you with sugar? I'm really bad with sugar.
D
I mean, it's not great.
B
Yeah. What's.
D
What's the one thing. I need it out.
B
If you could. If you could go to an addict's, what, Circle meeting, whatever it's called, what would it. What would it be for, Amanda? Oh, what's the thing you want to kick?
D
I can't thin.
B
I think. I can't stand. Really?
D
I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.
C
We talk about porn here all the time.
B
That is something I don't have a problem with.
C
Yeah, no. What is it?
D
I'm addicted to exercise.
B
Really?
A
No, for real.
D
Are you kidding? Are you kidding me?
C
Right?
A
Right?
D
Jb, do you know me at all?
B
Sean, it would be sugar for you.
A
Oh, my God, I can't not go a day without eating tons of sugar.
D
Have you tried to just get it out of the house? Like, have you tried the thing where it's like proximity?
A
Well, and then like I eat an apple, like. Okay, well that has sugar, but the good kind. But then I'll have a Snickers right after this.
B
Just a full grown Snickers since Halloween when I was 14.
A
But you know what? I texted these guys the other night. I came home after doing two shows and I had a plate of spaghetti and a donut.
C
On the same plate.
A
On the same plate.
D
Don't you think you're burning enough adrenaline?
A
That's what I'm saying.
D
Two shows, like, it just probably.
B
It's a one man show too.
A
That's what I'm saying.
C
But he earn it. He sent the photo of the. Of the pasta, of the spaghetti bolognese, and then, and then the. And then a chocolate donut with a bite out of it. So then I FaceTimed him just because I wanted kind of verification, because I thought that he'd set it for the photo to. For effect. And sure enough, donut is on the plate. He's eating them both simultaneously. Yeah, I really want a chaser and
A
a glass of wine.
D
I often think how, when, you know, I have an 11 year old, I often think of how one of the great, great pleasures of being an adult, a grown up, is that you can eat your dessert before your meal.
C
Sure.
A
Yeah. There's no rules.
C
Well, actually, if you remember, Sean, I said to you, are you at an 11 year old's birthday party?
A
Yeah. And I said, I stopped by on the way home from work.
C
Yeah. Amanda.
D
Pete Southie.
A
Yes.
C
Oh, my God. Amanda. I worked. You worked with Amanda. Amanda and I worked together first almost 30 years ago. We did a film called. I know, sorry. Sorry to say that.
B
Jesus, I don't feel good about it.
D
Years ago.
B
Do you guys. Do you guys both still have your. Your. Your boss sad cards? Bastard accents.
C
They almost took our sad cards away. They came. They came on set.
B
Was it not.
A
What did you work?
C
Southie.
B
It's called Southie. It was a film.
C
It was a film in South Boston.
A
Oh, I didn't know that.
C
How are you? Good. To see you. Good. Good for you, man. Huh? Hey, Pete, you're doing good, huh?
A
Wait, Amanda, did you do the accent too havoc.
D
I think I might have.
A
Do it just a little bit.
C
Just do a little bit. Honestly, I can't even fucking remember because I was in. Fuck.
D
They're going to kick me out of the condo. They're going to kick me out of the condo soon. That was terrible. Wow. Condo is good, though. Condo still rolling? Still rolling. Wow.
B
Still rolling.
D
Rude. Rude. Wait, was Donnie Wahlberg the star?
C
So Donnie Wahlberg was a star. Donnie Wahlberg, Rose McGowan, you, Me, and directed by John Shea and Mira and
D
Meera, who, by the way, Sean, I was saying I was about to do a play after Southie, and I was telling her about how I have terrible stage fright. And I was trying to just chat with her about it, and she had, you know, she was a chain smoker and she just said, as soon as you want to be good, you're dead.
C
Wow. By the way.
A
Wow, that's a good quote.
D
Isn't that deep?
C
Yeah, she was cool. She was. No, nonsense. She was cool.
A
That's kind of cool. As soon as you want to be good. Yeah.
B
Wait, wait. Tell me about the stage fright. I guess I have that. I guess we all have that a bit. Figure out how to not fight. Flip out at an early stage. Yeah.
C
You know what? I. You know what? I do my little trick I've always done for a long time, especially when you're going to do something kind of live or whatever, and like, you're like, I gotta get out there. And I just go, I am where I am. And literally use it. This is energy, okay. And I just.
B
So don't try to get over it.
D
No, that's incredibly annoying.
B
Bring it in.
C
Just flip it. Just flip it and flip it and forget it.
D
No, I don't have those kinds of nerves, honestly.
C
That's a good impression of me.
B
Now, has it always been like that? Here we go. Let's go back to the beginning. Amanda, when you were a kid. Yeah, when you were a kid, was it always going to be this, like, did you have a plan for this or did you just kind of wing it and, like, the entertainment world kind of came your way? Or was it like, no, let's set the oars in this direction and start rowing.
D
I think both parents.
A
That's good. That's enough. Thank you.
B
And we'll go to our first break.
A
No, both parents are off crowd.
D
Both parents were as far from the entertainment business as you could Possibly be.
B
What kind of lawyer?
D
Corporate lawyer.
B
Yep.
D
Yale undergrad, Harvard Law School. My mom was a social worker. Psychotherapist. And I feel like they saw acting in the beginning similarly to just, oh, so you wanna start modeling, you wanna join the circus, you wanna be a hooker?
B
Right, yeah.
A
Wow.
C
Sex worker.
B
Sex worker.
D
Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Sex worker.
B
Did you work to sort of convince them that that wasn't the way you were seeing it and what your intentions were, or did you just kind of like, hide your pur.
D
I was constantly trying to make it appear less frivolous. But interestingly apropos of what we were just saying, I think because I had terrible stage fright, it was much easier for me to book things like a chapstick commercial or Days of Our Lives. Like as soon as I was lucky enough to get an audition for something like a Clifford Odets play or something like that, I was like, this.
A
You're just shaking.
D
And I couldn't do what I was doing in class, you know, in real life.
B
So literally stage was like, that was your kryptonite. But being in front of camera was less.
D
No, sorry, I didn't explain that. Right. So anything highbrow.
A
Ah.
D
I was like, terrified.
A
Oh, gotcha.
D
And then anything that was like, considered more low brow.
B
Right. You kill it.
D
I could kill it. And so then I was undoing what I wanted to portray to my parents.
B
Yeah.
D
Because I'd be like, well, I'm on a Skittles commercial. And they'd be like, I rest my case.
B
Right. Well, how about that? That's actually. That's a good strategy to overcome. You know, like, don't overvalue something. Maybe like find something about whatever you're going to be doing that's giving you the nerves that sort of undercuts it.
D
Well, yeah, I mean, not to get too deep about it, but both my kids were given offers to go play.
B
And then, you know, you have three.
D
Oh, sorry. The two that are home and play soccer at different times. Soccer careers. Were offered to play in a higher soccer team and were like, no.
A
Oh, why? Why?
D
Cause they were too nervous.
B
Really? So it's catchy.
D
So I gave them my fucking anxiety.
B
Does Ding Dong David come with some really helpful fathering advice to these. To these young, nervous, you know, anxiety riddled kids?
D
Yes.
B
I feel like he doesn't help.
D
No, no, it's a good.
B
We love David.
C
We do love David.
A
Just because he's not in front of a camera. For my sister Tracy, David created Game of Thrones. Your husband?
B
Yeah.
C
Or Your sister's with. Sorry, I don't understand the conceit.
A
My sister.
B
Every once in a while, we have to remind the audience.
A
Good.
B
Thank you, Will. That's helpful.
A
But wait, Amanda, did you. When you were growing up. Oh, go ahead.
C
No, you.
A
No. Willie, go. No, no.
B
You guys are so polite to each other.
A
Wait, Amanda, when you grew up with a mom in that field, did you. Did she. Did she kind of try to psychoanalyze you all the time? Like, did you. Did you have somebody to talk to? Was it therapy? Constantly in the house? You know what I mean?
D
Okay. To be honest, I was. Yeah. I was very, very close with her and very, very similar. And was sent to the therapist right when I came out of her vagina.
A
Oh, wow, wow, wow.
D
Infant. I was like, talk therapy, let's go.
A
You came out with the car keys. You're, like, ready to go.
B
Did you ever feel like you were getting a free analysis from her? Or was it like, I can't really share with her my feelings because she's just gonna psychoanalyze me?
D
I think, like, was it a plus or a minus? Okay. My sister would disagree. For me, it was a plus. I didn't feel like she was looking at me as like, a test dummy for her psychological theories. And she was even in psychoanalytic training in the 90s when I was in college. And I thought it was really intellectually interesting what she was talking about and really, really helpful. And I think because she felt like her mom was a clinical narcissist, she was hell bent on being a good listener and seeing my sister and me for who we were. That's how I feel. I think my sister felt a little bit more like there was this, like, psychobabble orthodoxy.
B
That's older sibling. That's older sibling.
D
Oh, yeah, my older sister.
C
Did you think about. Did you think about. Through that process, did you think, oh, maybe this is an area that I want to go into? Did you consider doing that yourself?
A
I always think acting is a little bit of that area.
B
Sorry, that question was for Amanda.
A
Sorry.
D
No, Sean, go.
A
I. Yeah, no, no, no, go ahead.
D
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think when I look back, I was in. This is very unusual. I was in psychoanalysis at age 13. So I went to the shrink four days a week.
B
Wow.
D
To talk about, you know, first world problems. And I think the idea of psychoanalysis, that there are these inciting incidents that set you on a path, on a trajectory, and that's storytelling. You're basically creating a narrative.
C
Yes.
D
I mean, old School shrinks would say, you're not creating it. It's. But I think it's very similar to storytelling in every way.
C
And then we create and then that create that narrative. And those sort of neural pathways get deeper and deeper and deeper, those grooves. And if you're. The danger is that if you don't do that, I'm not advocating either way or whatever, I don't have really a position. But those things get so deep that that becomes your story entrenched in your mind about who you are. I am this. This is the way. And that can often, I think, as you get older. I know I speak for myself. The story that I've been telling myself about who I am for the longest time has become this thing that I'm now at this age, almost 56 and going like, wait, I gotta look at that. Because I've had this narrative and I'm not a reliable narrator on this, truly,
D
nor is any 13 year old, by the way. And so it's blame. There's a lot of blame. Right. When that idea that there is an inciting incident, that something happened to you, it takes away what. It doesn't count is style of thinking, how you, you know, it's nature, nurture. How were you born? I was born with a much more anxious mindset than my sister. And I think the idea that in your childhood this, A, B and C happened, it's. It can involve a lot of blame. And so I think it's maybe for some people, harder to take accountability. I don't know if that's sort of what you're saying, Will. Like, you're sort of like, yeah, I think so.
C
I just think that we all have, first of all, everybody has their own sort of chemical makeup. And so you can have two people, like you were saying, you and your sister. You can have two people who grew up in the same environment with the same parents at the same thing, and they're completely different. We see it in our own kids, I certainly see it in mine, and they react differently to stuff.
A
And then,
C
and this is true in my experience that I've grown up and I do things differently. And I'm only now, at this age, started to go like, wait a second. All the stuff that I thought I didn't do that early on. I didn't go to psychoanalysis when I was young, thank God. Well, maybe. But also now I got to sort of retroactively, like, I'm much more actively really searching to try to unlock a lot of the stuff that made me who I am today good and bad and trying to understand it a little bit and go like, why do I do that? Why do I make the same mistakes? Why do I do this stuff?
D
And good man.
A
Yeah. It's better to be self aware enough to want to figure it out than just float along, right.
B
And maybe you just wouldn't have had the emotional intelligence that you have now to really do a lot of deep and honest analysis and introspection, you know, so it's, you know.
C
Yeah.
B
Good timing.
D
Ready when you're ready.
B
Yeah, we'll be right back. My home, like your home, it's a retreat, right? It's your nest, right. And you want to be able to just lay out in that nest, you know, after a long day. So, you know, like my couch, like your couch is probably deep, it's soft, highly crashable. Right. The home should show off who you are and. And Ashley has styles that balance timeless appeal and modern trends. To bring your personal look home, Ashley offers well crafted, affordable pieces built to stand up to real life with great looks that are made to last. More than just eye catching design. Get features like stain resistant performance fabric options that are incredibly durable, stain resistant with machine washable cushion covers. Plus, Ashley provides fast, reliable white glove delivery right to your door. Now, my buns are very familiar with the Jerson Low swivel chair. I sat in this chair at our show in Los Angeles that we did in front of a live audience. And let me tell you something, I would have sat there for another three, four, five hours, but then we would have had to have charged everybody four, five times the amount they spent on the one hour show. So it didn't make any sense. But the Jerson Low swivel chair made that a temptation for me. Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style.
A
How do you like to play when you travel? Maybe you're doing something relaxing like lounging by a Palm Springs pool or sipping your way through Napa Valley. Or maybe you're into checking out the local scene like exploring Griffith park or taking a San Francisco food tour. What are some of your favorite California foods? I'm a sucker for the staple of avocado toast. Never had it till I lived in Los Angeles. And it's great. The best way to get to Noah City is through hitting all the must see stops. Feeling adventurous. Ride dune buggies through the desert, hike Yosemite's stunning trails, or kayak through San Diego sea caves. Or perhaps it's all of the above. Whatever you love to do you're sure to find it in California? The ultimate playground. With 840 miles of coastline, nine national parks, endless sunshine, and some of the most diverse cities and landscapes in the world, California truly is the ultimate vacation destination. From iconic road trips along the Pacific coast highway to world class food and wine regions, every turn offers something unforgettable. And everyone can experience their own way to play. Start planning your trip to the ultimate playground@VisitCalifornia.com. It's that time of year again. Spring break. Shut it all down and just be surrounded by the ones you love. No computers, no phones, just a great destination and a week to unwind. It's not too late to plan the perfect spring break that you will remember forever. And Hilton has over 9,000 properties worldwide with service you can always count on. Hilton makes getting away way too easy. They have the epic locations that everyone's going to agree on. And with their personalized service, they make vacationing effortless and unforgettable. And their service is almost clairvoyant. They know what you need before you even do. When you want spring break to actually feel like a break, it matters where you stay. Spring break, like as a kid for me was the best. The weather was perfect, there's no school. Maybe there's a little trip somewhere fun in the mix. It's the perfect time to make some unforgettable memories. Hilton makes for a great place to stay while making those magical moments. Hilton for the stay book now@hilton.com and now back to the show.
B
Well, Amanda speaking on keeping it deep and heavy now.
D
Oh, shit, sorry.
B
God, no. What about.
D
She's a laugh riot.
B
What about what you're doing? What about when you're playing parts and stuff like that? Are you, are you enjoying and exploring and utilizing all the different parts of you and injecting them into these characters?
D
I'm so fucking into acting right now.
B
Or do you like playing completely different people?
D
Oh, I'll do anything. I like both.
B
Right. But I mean, what's like your strategy? Like, do you think about how do I create an entirely different person or, okay, I recognize a part of myself in this character and so let's explore that part of myself and we'll just call her whatever this character's called.
D
Well, I'm mostly given parts right now at this moment that are more probably more like me. And yes, sometimes when right before I do a take, if I catch myself thinking about how to trying to be good.
A
Right, right.
D
If I think like I'm trying, if I Think.
C
Is that similar to try to be good or thinking about how to play it?
D
Yes. Like orchestrating anything.
C
Orchestrating a result.
D
Yes.
C
Right.
D
I try to pretend that David or Sarah Paulson are there at the Video Village. They'll call bullshit and that they'll call bullshit. So I say, okay, now you have to do one where they have. They're going to have to guess whether it's real or not real, whether it's really you or not really you.
B
That's awesome.
D
And that's the strategy for this moment.
A
Yeah. Because a lot of actors work so hard to let you know they're not acting, that it looks like acting.
B
Oh, you're right. Yeah. You know, whereas if you focus on just, like, performing for one microscopic lens, that for some people, it's themselves. Right. Like, for me, it's that case. Like, I know I'm gonna watch my performance here, and I'm not going to be able to get away with anything, you know, I'm not going to give myself any sort of, you know, relief. Like, it's. It's got to be super, you know, Like I'm. I'm watching for you. You're. That. That. That microscope is David and. And Sarah. It's.
D
It's never Amanda.
B
Huh?
D
It's never my best friend Amanda.
B
No, I. I can. I can trick Amanda. I can trick her.
D
Stop it. No, you can't.
B
No, I can't.
C
The other Amanda. Sorry, just to be clear, the other
B
Amanda I'm married to.
D
I'm very close with JB's wife, Amanda.
A
Can we talk to the other Amanda?
D
Amanda Panda?
A
No. Amanda and Jason were in what movie together?
B
There were two, right? Was it just two or was it more?
D
Oh, God. Oh, my God. I forgot about the. I forgot about the first movie.
C
I mean, she came out of the gate with selfie and she forgot about your shit.
B
Yeah, thanks. Which one did you forget about? Which one did you pour cement over?
D
I forgot about the. I forgot about the wheelchair one.
B
You don't remember the title? Oh.
C
Oh, I know that one.
B
We'll wait.
C
Yeah. In fact, I remember that one, too.
B
Yeah. Wait, what was it? Original.
C
Armisen's in that, too, right? Is that the one in Charles Grodin?
D
I couldn't act with him because he was too funny.
B
It was released as the X. But what was it. But what was it called originally? I think it had a better name originally, anyway.
C
Jesse Perez.
B
Yeah, Jesse Perez.
C
Look at me.
A
I can't believe you know that.
D
Look at you.
C
I know. Well, Amy was in it. Right.
B
Amy was in it. Yeah.
D
Sean, you didn't see it.
A
It's on my cue.
B
I played an asshole in a wheelchair, and Amanda and I play a week away from that. We play. We. We play ex boyfriend, girlfriend or. Or kind of. I wanted you to be my girlfriend back in the day, but now we meet up later in life and we were on cheer team together when I wanted you to be my girlfriend.
A
Oh, my God.
D
Sean laughed. Laughs.
B
Yeah.
D
Wow.
B
Sean. And there. There's There's a. There's a moment in the film where I'm in my wheelchair and. And we see each other and I go, hey, and. And. And I say, hey, remember the move? And I lift you up over my head with one arm as a seat. You're sitting on my hand. Up over. Over my head as I'm sitting in the chair. Did. Did we. We did that for real, didn't we? Or were you on cables? I feel like we may have done it for real.
A
Cables? Why? Because your hand, your arms.
C
I mean, I've seen your nearly atrophied arms, I don't think.
B
Yeah, I couldn't do that with my children, but I feel like we may have more.
D
We rehearsed over and over again, and
B
we did that for real, didn't we?
D
Yeah, we did. We did.
C
You mean there weren't a couple of grips wearing green suits holding her nowadays?
B
They have to. Yeah, But it was.
C
That's great.
B
That was. I. That was very fun, that movie.
A
Yeah.
B
Charles Grodin, he was.
A
I love Charles Grodin.
B
And then we did Identity Thief.
A
Yes.
B
Remember that one?
D
I sure did.
C
Oh, Identity Thief.
D
The thing I remember about that the most is Amanda breastfeeding Mapes in the hotel.
B
Yes. Yeah.
A
Jason's Amanda again, again, says a lot about your acting.
C
That's what she wrote. That's what she wrot. Remembers.
B
Yeah, That's a great.
C
That was a great movie. I love that identity thing.
A
Yeah, that's a great movie.
B
So much fun on that, Ms. McCarthy. Crushing it. All right, let's get. Let's get back to the beginning. Let's. Let's roll through this a little bit. We're going to pick up the pace here. We're doing so much time.
C
Meta, you grew up in New York City. You were born in New. Born in New York. Grew up in New York. Right. Went to school in New York.
A
Where did you. Where did you grow up? In the city? In Manhattan.
D
In Manhattan? Yeah. Lower 11th and 5th.
A
Oh, look at that.
B
What is there? Is it. What, What. What is it? What is the most New York thing that is still a part of your everyday behavior? What do you think?
D
You.
A
You.
B
Cause you lived there for a while.
C
I'm working here.
B
Right, yeah. What would be the thing that that city gifted you in your Persona?
D
Psychoanalysis, of course.
A
Yeah.
B
Yeah.
A
Everybody.
B
Everybody's looking inside over there.
D
Bagels.
A
Yeah. What do you. When you leave New York City, what do you miss the most?
D
Just the whole McGillicuddy. The subway, the rubbing shoulders with other people.
A
Yeah. Where are you right now?
C
That was by mistake.
A
By mistake.
C
I meant it.
D
Oh, God. I'm in the bedroom.
A
I mean, are you in New York or Los Angeles?
D
Oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. Jesus. I'm in Los Angeles. Yeah, we live in Los Angeles now.
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
B
All right, so you're starting out jb.
C
Are we on a snack break?
B
I'm sorry. That's the last bite. I thought I'd move the microphone far enough away. I apologize.
C
What's happening? So you grew up. You grew up in New York, and you say to your parents, and your parents are a million miles from showbiz, and you go, hey, yeah, I think I'm gonna be an actor now.
B
Were you doing any sort of, like, job before you got started that maybe you could say, well, but this has kind of taken off for me and I won't have to be doing X anymore.
D
No, I was doing school plays. I did all the school plays. And because I went to a tiny Quaker school, I was, you know, one of the best singers there. Which is saying nothing.
B
Right.
D
And it was a short order, not a tall order. And then as soon as I got to college, I started. I sort of walked in confidently to all these auditions, and I never got a single play. I auditioned for 20 plays.
A
Yeah.
B
Oh, wow. Really?
D
It was as if they had already decided they already had their own clique. Right?
C
Yeah. They were like, no, no, no. These parts are reserved for people who are good.
B
But were you not studying? Did you.
D
But I took a teenage acting class that my mom found for me, starting when I was 13. 2. As well as being in psychoanalysis.
B
No, but what about.
C
Where was that? Where was that? Where was that acting school? You're 13.
D
That was at HB Studios. So eventually my teacher said, HB Studios? Yes.
A
What's that?
C
Yeah, a lot of actors get their start in hb.
D
So eventually my teacher said, you know, you really need to study with Utta Hagen. And so my junior year at college, I auditioned for UTA Hagen.
B
Now, what about. So in college, did you. Were you studying Drama?
D
No, I was studying American history.
B
Yeah, so never went into the drama program. Because I bet if had you joined the drama program, they might have felt obligated to put you in a fight.
D
There wasn't a drama program. What's happening, Sean?
A
That's Scotty.
D
Oh, Scotty's there.
C
He's just striking the set. He's just striking.
A
You're just striking the set.
B
All right, so then you start auditioning. Well, okay, so college starts to beat you up a little bit and tax your confidence.
C
Meanwhile, you're like, I auditioned for 20 plays. I'm not getting anything. This is for me. Like, what's the.
B
Did you go out and get an agent? How did you start auditioning?
D
I haven't really admitted it quite yet, I still think. And I had. It's almost like, you know what people say, like a self hating Jew or something like that. I was like a self hating actor. I couldn't quite admit that I wanted to actually do this as more than a hobby. And was it the same for you, Sean?
A
Oh, no, I'm just.
D
Oh, I thought you were like, yes, I relate to that.
A
Yeah. No, I'm just like, yeah.
C
Oh, no, Sean was a prodigy.
A
Yeah. No, no. I mean, a little bit.
B
Yeah.
A
Like, well, you know, when you're young, you never think you're good. You know, like, you're just like hanging on by a thread.
B
I mean, I've never been more confident than when I was young and then I got old enough to realize, oh, no, Jason, you're full of shit.
C
But also because you, you were. You worked all the time. Like, I had a similar. I moved to New York and I didn't get anything for years. Like, why the did I keep doing it? Yeah, nobody wanted to hire me for years.
B
But Amanda, you went out. But Amanda, at some point you went out and got an agent. Right. And you started auditioning.
D
Yes. So then once I was in Utta's class, all the. I was in an adult class at age 18. And so people had headshots and agents, and they taught me what the. What's Backstage magazine? But also the Ross Reports, where you could look up, there was a little booklet and it had every agent in New York City. And I just would start crossing them out and I would take the subway and go to make a day.
A
Make submissions.
D
Yeah. And I would go in person with like full makeup.
A
Yeah, you had to.
B
You wanted it.
A
Right?
D
And flip my headshot under the thing.
B
And they'd be like, thank you, we got it. Stop pushing it under the door. Stop pushing it.
D
Yeah, we don't take unsolicited headshots.
C
You know what? I've never. I've never told anybody this story. This is absolutely true. When I was, like, 23 and I had, like, a headshot, it was just terrible and like, nothing. A fake resume.
B
Did you look worse than you look now? Can you put your hands through your hair, please?
C
Sorry.
B
Fix it. It's off your forehead. There you go.
D
Thank you.
C
And I went. I went up to 30 rock. This is before the advent of, like, high security and stuff. And. And I went to 30 Rock and I went. It might have been even 92. And I went in and I got on the elevator and I went up and I put my resume on the desk. At 8h.
A
At SNL.
C
At SNL.
D
Honey, not everybody knows what fucking 8h
B
is to be a.
C
Well, you do. You do.
B
Spoken by Studio 60.
D
I actually didn't know that.
A
And have they caused you so you
D
thought you were funny?
C
I don't know.
D
I mean, you're right. But I. I just. I didn't know.
C
But talk about confident and unwarranted confidence.
B
So you wanted to be on SNL early?
C
I. I thought about it, but I had no. I didn't do sketch or anything. Anyway, this interview is not about me. But I. I did go and do that same thing. I went and I put the thing on, embarrassingly enough, and I. I just
A
had this image of me sliding my. Just like you said, Amanda, sliding my headshot and resume underneath the door, waiting three seconds, and it just comes right back
B
with a bunch of.
C
No, just a big Sharpie on the outside of the envelope. And you guys.
D
You guys. Not only that, but eventually. So I auditioned for agents, you know, like, I did monologues in their offices. And eventually I got repped. And the teen rep walked me to the corner of 57th and 7th with one of her colleagues and said. And we were. She was saying, congratulations, we wanna rep you, and was sort of giving me the lay of the land, and then was like, uh. And the other thing we just wanted to know. So for your. You have a little bit of. You got a. You got a mustache a little bit here. We're just wondering, what can we do about that?
A
Oh, my God.
B
What?
D
Oh, my God. Wait, was she right? She was right.
B
Really?
A
Oh, my God.
B
Wait a second. So how old are you?
C
Name her. But what agency. What agency was that?
D
It was ste. At the time. It became paradoxical.
C
Right.
D
18. 19.
B
You were 18, 19, and you had a little bit of a fuzz there. And I think it must have been
D
more than a fuzz, because I've seen a fuzz.
B
Okay, what was the strategy on removal? Was it bleaching or relaxing?
A
She's like, no. What? She's like, no, watch this. I'm gonna grow it out.
B
Take that strategy.
C
JB Wants to.
B
No, I want an answer to that. Did we bleach it or did we wax it?
D
We did everything. We did Nair. We did bleach. We did laser. You name it, I did it.
B
Well, yeah.
A
Isn't that something?
D
I would pay so much money to see my face, like, and see myself try to handle that, like, and be like, oh, yeah, yeah.
B
Was that so.
C
So I had an agent recommended nutritionist to me once. Yeah.
B
And it was like, this was last week.
C
Got. Was about 18 months ago, under the guise of. It did a lot for me, and I was like, cool.
B
Hey, I. I had. I had a. I had a. A really big shot agent not too long ago, pitch to another person that I work with, say, hey, if it's ever appropriate and you feel like you can kind of squeeze it into the. To. To. To the conversation, ask Jason if he highlights. Like, if he had highlights, it would really open things up for sort of like real sexy kind of leading man. And I was like, are you.
A
Did you do it?
D
Studio exec.
B
No, no. Agent King. King agent.
A
And. And did you do it or.
B
No? No, I did not. Shawnie. I have not colored my hair since the.
A
I know.
B
It's incredible. Frank Stallone vehicle Philly Boy on CBS in 1990.
C
You have. You have so few grays, too. You have so few grays. It's.
B
So they're coming. I do. I do feel like they're coming. There are a few that are trying to fight their way. Okay, so wait now. So you get this note about the stash. You're addressing it. Are you feeling like, yes, this is great. This is a good thing? Or, wait a second. Is that what this business is going to be? My feelings are hurt. I'm not getting a lot of stuff. Even though I just got an Uber. I should. Did you ever feel like quitting at any moment in your career?
D
I think more later. I think it was more later, I think, because.
B
Because the opportunities weren't what they were what you wanted, or it was just like, oh, I'm good. I have nothing left to prove to myself. I've had incredible success. And next.
D
It sure wasn't that Jason.
B
Well, it could be.
D
I've had incredible success. I'm gonna go rest on my laurels.
C
I completed everything.
B
Take another look.
D
Yeah, I think, well, you know, like, once I started writing a little bit, and when I was shooting the chair, which, you know, when I was behind the camera and all the ladies, like Sandra oh. And everyone had to get there earlier, and I could roll in in my snow pants with my mustache and my hair and just be. But still be the boss. I was like, this is great. What have I been doing this whole time?
C
Right?
B
And then. Yeah, that's okay. So then that. So then the latter.
D
And it's really fun to have, you know, to have last cut, final cut.
B
Right. Well, let's. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about how did the chair come into your orbit? So, folks, she was the creator, the writer, the showrunner for the Netflix series called the Chair, starring Sandra. Oh. And so it was this. There was this. How did it come to you? Tell us about that.
D
Because I went to Friends in Manhattan on 16th street, and there was a teacher who was there when I was there, who was really lovely. And in the New York Times. It was in the New York Times, there was a huge mishegoss because he was in a math class and he was pointing to something and he made a Nazi salute joke.
B
Who's he?
D
It was the teacher. And it became at Friends Seminary, at my Quaker school, this huge controversy.
B
Friends is a school.
D
Friends is a school. Manhattan Friends is a Quaker school.
B
Okay.
D
And it was the beginning.
C
You joke, you're broke, your love life's doa.
A
Okay. Yeah. You know, I can't believe they still go there, all those six friends.
D
Go ahead.
B
Jen's gonna figure it out. Sorry, go ahead.
D
I like this idea of having a woman of color who is the boss of a white dude who transgresses. And it was sort of the beginning of cancel culture and all that stuff. And I knew this teacher to be a lovely, kind Quaker leaning human being. And the fact that he incited this whole controversy, I thought, this is such a good story.
A
What's a Quaker? I mean, I know what a Quaker. I know what Quaker oats are.
B
Yeah.
A
That's all I know. But what's a Quaker school? What does it mean?
C
What does that mean?
D
You know, it's a Christian denomination, but I feel like they're the greatest. They really take the word literally. So, you know, there's no priesthood. You know, in a Quaker meeting house, anyone is allowed, regardless of your religion. There's no priesthood. Because the idea is nobody is closer to God than anybody. Else.
A
Oh, got it.
D
It's called a popcorn meeting when someone stands up and speaks. Because anyone.
B
Also, great fiber. Yeah. You want to talk about a denomination that's got colon health, you need to go no further.
D
Oh, was I getting boring? Was I getting like.
B
Yeah, that's our job. We gotta pop it in every once in a while.
D
Yeah, yeah.
B
Hey, but tell me what farts.
D
Yeah, mustaches.
B
Gotta do it. We're just dumb dudes. Hey, what about What? What made you think that you could be the boss?
D
Nothing.
B
Yeah, the writer, the showrunner.
C
Yeah. What made you think
B
everyone would love to, like. Would like to have their own show on Netflix? I mean, like, how great.
D
Well, first of all, I watched David and Dan do it.
B
Yeah. And you're like, jesus, these two guys can. Yeah.
A
Yeah.
B
Holy shit.
D
Exactly. No, I was like, oh, my God, I better not fuck this up. I think it's just, like, love of actors. That was it. That was like my starting point.
A
Scary, though, right?
B
Clearly, immense writing talent. And we're gonna get into that. But, like, where did the writing talent come from? You didn't study it in school?
D
I did.
B
You did. Okay.
D
Yeah.
B
American history and American.
D
Well, I just took a lot of creative writing classes.
B
Okay.
D
And then acting just sort of took over, but I was always kind of dabbling. And then I think when I married David, he was really encouraging. When Studio 60 got canceled, he was like, take a step, let's go.
B
Especially you. And that was Aaron Sorkin, wasn't it? So you had. You had. You'd just been under that. I mean, my God, those. Yeah, those scripts. So wait. All right, while we're on the writing thing, let's talk about this incredible essay that was just published by the New Yorker a couple of weeks ago. If you haven't read that or look for it, do so. It is. I mean, you tell me, Amanda, is this not the equivalent of an Oscar for an actor to be a writer and to get published in the New Yorker is the zenith of accomplishments. Yes.
D
Lost my mind.
A
I can't wait to read this. What's the name of the article?
D
It doesn't have a name. It's.
C
But what would you name it? It.
A
No, I mean, like, how do I find it? Just Amanda, Pete. New Yorker.
D
Yeah.
C
Oh, there's a start.
A
Yeah. And it is.
B
I.
C
Have you ever used the Internet? Sorry.
B
I have read it and it is. Not only is it an incredible piece of writing, but the subject matter, it is non fiction. It is about our guest and her family and mortality and. Tell them the rest of it, if you're comfortable, because it is just stunning. And it left me with real wet cheeks at the end.
D
Thank you, jb.
B
And I mean facial cheeks. Sorry, I need to be clear.
D
Will, where is your finger? Dinger.
C
No, it's so far away. Hang on, Jason, just say facial cheeks.
B
And I had. I. And I ended with real wet cheeks afterwards. Facial cheeks. The boys will put that together. Sure.
D
I can't believe that actually worked.
B
And we will be right back. Oh, boy. You know, we talk about closets a lot on this show.
A
We sure do.
B
Kicking the door down, coming on out, basically talking about that closets are for clothes. Oh, and I've taken that too much to heart because my closet is stuffed. I've been meaning to go through my closet round, sell some of them. I should sell it. I mean, listen, you know, what feels familiar in my closet may be exactly what someone else is searching for. Buy, sell and discover affordable secondhand fashion you'll love with the resale marketplace.
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B
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A
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B
Amanda, tell us about some of the things that are revealed in this. I mean, deeply, deeply personal.
D
Well, so on the Friday of Labor Day weekend, this last Labor Day weekend, I went to my breast surgeon. I have what's known as dense and busy breasts.
B
Guys, keep your. I'm not gonna hit that softball. I'll leave that to you. Guys.
D
Keep your finger dinger nearby.
C
I feel like you were looking at my search history. Okay.
A
Really teed that up. Okay.
D
No, you guys, for real. It's a real thing. I'm sure you do. And it means you have to get tested all the time because.
A
Do you mind telling me what. Cause I'm super into medical stuff. Like, what is that condition?
D
I guess it just means that you're. It means that on screens, it's hard to detect cancer.
A
Okay.
D
Because it's. I guess it's a little bit like a forest or something. I don't know. But there's like too many. It's too dense and busy.
A
Like vascular and cardiovascular kind of things. Yeah.
D
Yes.
C
But all jokes aside, that's scary. That's a scary.
D
Yeah. So I was used to going. I go all the time. I go every six months. I get ultrasounds as well as mammograms. And so she found something on the Friday of Labor Day weekend and went right before I left, she said. I said to her, do you think if you were a betting woman, what would you say? And she said, I think it's cancer.
A
Oh, my God.
D
So I went home.
B
You had to wait for the results for the test?
D
Yes. So then she said she was gonna walk it over to Cedars. Cause it was a holiday weekend. I was like, I talk about Xanax. So I came home. And then the next day, David went down to San Diego while we were waiting to hear from the doctor. Cause the kids had A soccer tournament. And my sister called and told me that my dad was about to die. So I flew to New York, and my poor sister had just dropped her last kid off at college, and so
B
she's in a great mood.
D
So she was dealing with a lot of, like, closure and loss. And so my dad passed away and.
A
I'm so sorry.
D
Thank you.
A
Yeah.
D
I'm so sorry. The essay's really, really funny.
B
It actually is. This is what. This is her superpower. It is. It has. Has the most devastating things in it and the most hilarious stuff in the middle. It's really something to watch.
A
I can't wait to read it.
D
So anyway, when I got on the plane to come back to LA to get ready to get all the tests and go through the whole process of having breast cancer, I was like, surely I can write about this. Surely this is a weekend from hell. That there's gotta. It's gotta.
B
But you're not thinking New Yorker. You're thinking just sort of a cathartic kind of. Let me just journal.
D
Yeah, I wasn't thinking that far ahead. I was just like, this can't be that common. I mean, not that, like, I. You know.
B
The weekend from hell.
D
Yeah, the weekend from hell was sort of what I was thinking. Yeah.
A
Yeah.
D
And we. Meanwhile, my mom was also in hospice, so both my parents were in hospice at the exact same time. So, you know, I just.
A
It's all this past year, just now.
D
Yeah, six months.
C
Yeah, six months.
D
And I was very lucky. Everything's, you know, I'm clear. I did radiation. I was extremely lucky. The cancer they found.
C
It was cancer, Amanda.
D
It was cancer. Yeah. Yeah.
C
I'm so sorry.
A
I didn't know that.
D
Oh, thank you. Yeah. So I was, like. I said, like, very, very lucky.
B
No one knew this. Right? I mean, it is in the article. Is your first mention, first time you've gone public with this? Yes.
D
Yeah. I think. Because, you know, we didn't tell the kids right away. Cause Frankie. We had dropped Frankie off at college the week before. So we. And as some people know this, but cancer, most types of cancer, it takes a while to find out where you are. Like, what is your treatability? What kind of breast cancer do you have? How big is your tumor?
A
And that tells you how to treat it?
D
Yeah. And I found out later now I know so much more about breast cancer.
A
That.
D
And other cancers, too. I mean, there are types of pediatric leukemia where you don't find out for a year whether you have a treatable course, but the weighting is Insane making. It's just insane making. So, yeah, we didn't wanna tell the kids for a while until we knew whether I was gonna do chemo and what the course of treatment was gonna be. So. So I wanted to keep it a secret. Cause I wasn't even telling my children. So. Yeah.
A
Wow. And then your dad passed while you were waiting for the.
D
While I was on the plane. Yeah, he passed while you were on the plane there. Yeah, he passed. Yeah.
B
But you got there in time to say goodbye and. Yeah, it's all in the article. It's the essay. It's like, it's so well written. So wait, so then now you get home, you're starting your treatments, your mom, you're being a saint. She's living with you in hospice?
D
Yeah. Jason has come and seen my mom many times. So she. Yeah, she was single. My parents got divorced and she was single and living in New York. And so she has Parkinson's disease. So once she was wheelchair bound, we. David being all jokes aside, the mensch to end all mensches, moved my mom here and we took her in. So she was living here for the last seven years.
B
I mean, your stuff that you write about, your connections with her right there at the end were just everything.
C
That's so beautiful. I had no idea all these years that your mom was living with you,
B
you never talked about it in any way. And you're managing this vibrant career that is, after all these years, even more vibrant, writing and doing stuff.
C
And you're shooting that show in New York, right? You're shooting your show with Ham in New York at the same time.
D
Yeah, shooting with Ham. Yeah. They were really lovely. Like last summer when, before I found out I had breast cancer. Tropper and Jon Hamm were very beautiful about my mom being in hospice and letting me go back and forth all the time. Like, I have very special bosses, I have to say.
A
Well, this is really amazing because every time. I didn't know any of this was going on. On. So every time I see you, I always laugh. I was such a great time with you.
C
Same here.
A
And you, and you always so positive and have so much light about you
B
and around you guys.
A
And.
C
No, it's not downer Drippy. No, it's like you're always. You're always laughing.
B
Well, there's Ritalin. She does a sidecar of Ritalin as well.
C
Sidecar, sidecar, sidecar. It's true, though. Like,
A
you're such a joy. Like, it's just amazing that to. To know what just like, just goes to show, you have no idea what anybody's going through at any time.
D
Yeah, I think my mom. Thank you. First of all. But yeah, my mom is that way. Like, very Jewish sense of humor. Like, very. You were asking about what I miss about New York. Like, she has that very New Yorky, neurotic Jew, sharp, witty sense of humor. And throughout her Parkinson's. You know, I mean, it's a horrible disease. I know you guys probably know a little bit about it. And she never really lost her sense of humor.
C
That's amazing.
D
Never. Never. So I have a good model for. As Carrie Fisher said, always look for the humor.
A
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
B
All right, so we're going to take a look at that essay. For sure.
A
Are we going to a clip or for the.
C
Yeah, it did sound like you're about to go to a cliff.
B
For the folks who don't know how to read and just enjoy their dose of Amanda, Pete, I can't wait. On the screen, they've been enjoying your friends and neighbors quite a lot. Yeah. As I would imagine.
C
As I did.
B
You. You are too, Amanda. Notwithstanding the, the, the hours spent with Jon Hamm. Because that, because that can be tough. You know, this guy that would be trying.
D
He's a nightmare. Let's face it.
B
Let's face it.
C
Yeah.
B
Well, you know, maybe this is. People catch on. People catch on and, and we'll finally be rid of them. But until then, you guys are great on this show. The second season is. Is coming up here in the spring as well as your new film. Let's talk about your new film. It's called Fantasy Life, released March 27. You are a producer.
D
So cute.
B
You are a producer on that and also the co star. And you were awarded. What were you awarded for that? Hold on. I don't want you to have to say it yourself here. I believe it was some sort of special award at south by State Southwest. The film won the audience award as well. I mean, this is. And I saw it the other night and it's effing great. It's a, it's a real naturalistic, you know, let's put it this way. If you loved Will Arnett's film, and I know all of our listeners did, you Will love this film too. It's got a lot of the same really great naturalistic sort of texture to it, if you will. No one swinging for the fences with some like, water performance crap. It's really effortless quality.
A
When does it come out, Amanda?
D
I was swinging for the fences
B
with A literal bath. But always you never ask the audience to watch your performance. You know, you're never screaming like, hey, look at me. Act. It's so easy to watch you.
D
I'm screaming deep inside, look at me.
B
Whatever it is, it's working. Was that a great sense of accomplishment? Because you've been. Great work on this is what, your first film in 10 years. Was that important?
D
Can I just say something about that? People keep saying that. Can I just say something? It's not like I chose to not work in a movie for 10 years. I just couldn't get arrested.
B
Yeah, but you're no longer, you know, pushing your headshots under doors and stuff. I mean, as you said, you've got this healthy, sexy indifference, guys. And you're busy doing things that are a little bit more important to you, I would imagine. Yes.
D
Honestly, it's really just. Is the writing good? And in this particular case, this indie writer came to me with this idea of. This was before Baby Girl. It's basically like a sort of upper crust mom who has.
B
This is Matthew Scheer the upper crust mom?
D
Yeah. Yes, but Matthew Shear. It's like she has an affair with the man. Basically, she hires a mani for her kids. Yes. And when I read the script on about page 15, this neurotic, speaking of neurotic Jews from New York, he has a scene with his shrink where he's talking about his OCD with Judd Hirsch where he. And he's having these self hating Jew intrusive thoughts where he sees a Jewish guy on the subway with a big nose like David. And he says, hook nose. Hook nose. Hook nose. And he thinks he's gonna say it out loud. And I was like, well, this is brilliant. I want to do this.
A
Oh, wow.
D
It's just so fucking funny. It's really a lot funnier than how I'm pitching it right now.
B
No, but again, it's not asking for laughs. It's really tasteful. Alessandro Naval is in it with you as well.
D
How funny is he?
B
Yeah, he's great.
C
Yeah, he's great. Wait, when does it come out?
D
March 27th.
B
March 27th, which I believe has already passed. We're doing this a little bit ahead of time, but. Yeah, we are.
C
No, I know that, obviously.
B
Yeah. Go out there and grab it, y'.
A
All.
B
Now, what is my next question? Here I come. I'm coming.
D
I don't know, jb.
B
Here we go.
C
Jb, Just go off script a little bit. Just, you know, what do you do for fun? Well, you know what she does for fun.
A
Yeah.
D
Dense and busy. Dense and busy.
A
Dense and busy.
D
Oh no. That's what Will does for fun.
A
Wait, Amanda, what does the rest of the day look like today?
B
No, that's a great question. Yeah, let's do that one. This is the most hard hitting journalism.
D
This is boring.
A
No, you're not.
C
Are you out of your mind?
D
I'm really boring.
A
No, I want to know. I want to know because I want. First of all, I didn't know anything that you've gone through in this past six months or a year. And now I want to know, like what, what did. What do you do all day because the kids are away.
B
Right?
C
What do you do all day like
B
because you're about to start. Are you about to start press for. For. For both the film and the show?
D
Yes. Yes.
B
And are. And is that something that you like? Do you like going out there and doing all the chat and giggles?
D
What do you guys think? I feel like when you're proud of
A
it all, it all depends on sleep. If I slept, I'm great. I'm game to do anything. I'm tired, I don't want to do it.
D
Do you have trouble sleeping? Let's talk about sleep. Because.
B
Yeah, I think as you get older and smarter and the brain works better and there's more stuff to think about. Sleeping gets harder.
A
Yes. And I just read somewhere that it
C
used to be by Red. You mean TikTok?
A
Uh huh. It's on TikTok, By the way. It's true. I think I did see it on TikTok. TikTok, where the, where you sleep. It used to be hundreds of years ago, people only slept for three or four hours. Got up and then there was a second sleep.
B
Yeah, says who?
A
Tick tock.
C
That is true. Yeah, he's right.
A
And then. So that's what happens to me. I sleep for a little bit. This is.
C
There was a time in New York, you can look it up where people used to go and they'd walk around in the middle of the night. It would be. I remember reading this, there was a book about it, about these. And people would walk around sort of at like 1am and there'd be. There'd be like a kind of a nightlife that people. Because sort of before the advent of widespread.
A
You gotta get your 8 hours electric
C
bulbs and all that kind of that people would go to sleep earlier and then often wake up in the night and they would have like a reprieve from their sleeping.
B
And I am definitely looking that up.
C
Go for It.
D
Are you guys, are you ruminators? When you wake up, how do you keep your brain from being like death? We're all gonna die.
A
Catastrophic thinking. Do you have catastrophic thinking? Yeah. You do?
C
I mean, I've been. I've.
D
Yeah, but so how do you stop yourself, Sean, when you. So you have two sections of sleep with a thing in the middle. So what I went back to. Are you able to put your phone away?
A
No, I play games or I'll read or do whatever on my computer. You know, like I'll read stuff that I find interesting, but most of the time I'll play games.
D
But doesn't the blue beam.
A
It's mind numbing.
D
Didn't people tell you not to put.
A
I have glasses that, that, that soften the blue light.
B
So that's a great look. You've got the glasses on the CPAP and the. And then you got the, the. What's it called? The Beetlejuice. What's it? Jewel. Jewel Heist. What's. What's the game you play?
C
Candy Crush. Candy Crush.
D
That's hot. That is hot.
C
But it's more about. It's more about what that's doing sort of firing all those things in your brain instead of. If in that moment, if you were to wake up and pick up a book, you might find it easier to.
A
I know, but. But I don't know.
D
Will is constantly push books on this.
C
I'm sorry.
B
Mostly about World War II, though.
C
Not. Not recently. I've.
B
I've no World War I now. Or are we into Vietnam? Which direction are you going?
C
The last, you know what. The last couple weeks I've been into more sort of modern noir.
A
Okay.
C
Which I. And I, I did one of those things. I said, what are the best modern noir books of the last 10 years? What would you say?
B
And what'd they say?
C
Yeah, and they sent me a list of books and I just wrote. Oh, sorry, Sean. Hang on. Sorry, Sean.
D
Little late. Little late on the draw there. Wait, is that fiction or non. Fiction?
C
Fiction. Yeah. It's been like so much crime and. Yeah, it's been interesting. I know.
A
It's so good that you read all that. Well, it's so good. Do you read a lot, Amanda?
D
I try, yeah. I try to read a lot. I. David reads a lot. David reads a lot.
C
David and I have exchanged books. I know we've handed each other books
D
before and now he's listening to the Rest is History. Do you know that?
C
Who is that? Oh, he is, yes.
D
He's obsessed.
C
Yeah, very.
D
It's really fun.
A
I feel like an audiobook or something.
D
It's a podcast, and they talk about history, but in a very accessible.
A
Oh, like for dum dums.
D
Hilarious.
A
For dumb dumbs like me.
D
For dumb dumbs like me. Yeah. Like, I'm doing the one on Iran right now, and they're so. They're hilarious, Will, don't you think they're hilarious?
C
Yeah, very, very, very interesting.
D
They're not as funny as you guys, but they're funny.
B
But how do people have the time to listen to podcasts? On the thing in the car, you do the news. When I'm. When I'm on the thing.
C
But, jb, if you look. Well, look about. Look at. Look at it this way. You.
B
You.
C
You dedicate. I'd say 80% of your time that you watch TV, which is about 80% of your day, is you're watching news. Right. The other 20, you're watching sports.
B
I keep waiting for him to get caught, you know.
A
No, no, no.
C
My point is, if you were to. If you were to delegate some of that time to.
B
To sitting in a chair in a room with headphones on, staring at.
C
While you're on the. While you're on the exercise machine or.
D
I do it in the car.
C
Well, in the car, yeah, in the car and listen to these guys, I think that you'd find it pretty interesting.
B
But I can't finish it. My car rides are like 15, 20 minutes. Is that okay?
D
That's good. I feel like I do that with them, especially if you're interested in one section.
B
Will it hold my. Will it hold my place? I don't want to have to start over. When I get back in the call,
D
I just take a screenshot of where I am, and that's how I know how many minutes have gone by, and then I return to it.
C
Of course you do.
D
I can probably do it in an easier way.
C
I love that you do that. Boy, that says everything, really. Yeah. That taught me a lot, in a great way.
D
I'm scared.
C
No, no, no, no. It's very. You're just. It's very methodical, and I really appreciate that.
D
Well, she's a Capricorn, I'm a Capricorn.
B
You know, we think shit through.
C
Fuck that.
D
I need to give a shout out to Amanda Anka and say that I'm a Capricorn.
B
Yeah, yeah. No, she. What are you guys. Sean, she knows you're rising and you're. And you're.
D
No, she still needs more information, apparently, to tell me exactly what I Am.
A
I am cancer. How about that?
B
Oh, wow.
A
In.
C
In every situation.
B
Yeah, That should have been.
C
I'm like a modern day Fred Nor. I'm like a. Like a low rent Fred from Howard.
D
Yeah. Wait, Sean, what's your rising?
A
I don't know what that means.
D
Okay, me neither. Will, what about you, Sean?
B
You don't have a joke for what's Rising? And Sean, Taurus pants.
A
Something in my pants.
D
Taurus.
B
Will, you know what your rising is?
C
I forget. But Amanda, Amanda, she's got it all on us.
D
She's got a forecast on it to be here. So she could. Yeah, she could tell us what's what in the coming.
C
You're right. I. I have send Amanda Anka like a year ago or whatever. Like what time. I had to ask my mom exactly what time of day I was born. I did all this stuff. She needed to have all this information.
B
She wanted to know if you were a good match for her or not.
C
She already knew. She already knew.
B
Yet she's sticking with me. I love her. So much.
D
Better.
B
And you want to know who else I love so much?
C
Yeah.
D
Who?
B
The other Amanda in my life. Amanda Pete, Today's guest. And we want to thank you for your hour and eight minutes. We love you.
C
We certainly do.
D
I love you. I love all three of you so much.
A
We love you so much too.
B
We love your husband, your three kids, the whole thing. I love you and your talent.
D
Thank you.
B
So go out there, read that essay in the New Yorker, watch her movie fantasy life, watch her show your friends and neighbors and stay tuned for the next half of this incredible, incredible woman's career and life.
D
Oh my God. I'm gonna start crying.
C
I'm gonna cry. I know. That was so nice.
B
We love you.
C
We do love.
D
Thank you so much. I love you gentlemen so much. I'm gonna hug you so hard when I see you. Is that promises Squeeze me.
B
Okay. Love you. All right.
A
Bye.
D
Love you guys.
C
Bye.
A
Love you too.
C
Bye. Bye. Bye.
B
Bye. That was Amanda Pete, one of my dearest longest friends.
A
I know.
C
She's one of my all time faves.
B
Yeah, right.
C
Same person.
A
Super funny. Yeah. And like I said, she's always so bright. No one would ever know anything's going on. Ever. She's always not that. That like, you know, it's just somebody who knows how to.
C
I know.
A
Always walk in a room and light it up.
B
Yeah, for sure. And on screen too. Like I just. She's just always sort of ground stuff that I watch and always kind of elevates it. Kind of smarts it up.
C
You know what, jb? I have a recollection of before you guys were friends, before you'd worked together that you always admired. You used to talk about her in this way that she was for you, like, kind of the gold standard. And she was like one of those people. You wanted to work with her really bad, you know? You know, in the best way.
B
Yeah, Tea Leone was like that for me too.
A
Oh, yeah.
B
And still to this day, like, I just think there's. There's a. Julia Roberts is like that too. There's a strength and a style of humor and also of drama that, I don't know, they all kind of remind me of each other. But, yeah, she is a treasure. And Sean, right about now is when you start, hey, guys,
C
do you remember the time that I.
A
Do you remember?
B
Hey, guys, you want to know what my favorite film of hers was? And then he kind of works it.
A
God. Wait, we're gonna pause. We're gonna cut out this pause and waiting.
C
Oh, are we?
B
Yeah, you know that. That. That David Benioff husband of hers, you know, that's. They've got kind of like a dual. It's a. It's a. It's a double barrel shotgun over there of talent and. And accomplishments, and they're sort of, you know.
C
Yeah. And you know what?
A
You know.
C
Yeah.
B
Yeah, I thought that'd be a great tee up there for one of you guys.
C
I know.
A
Wait. Yeah.
B
Oh, God. We've got. We got a caller. A caller is. Is. Oh, you know, one of my favorite jobs that I've ever done, and Amanda P. Happened to be in it. We talked about it earlier. A real treat.
A
Yeah.
B
My friend and my favorite Amanda. Pete played my wife in Bydanity Thief.
A
Bydanity Thief. That was pretty good.
C
Smart Less. Smart less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terra, Rob Armjarv and Bennett Barbaco. Smart Less
D
K Pop Demon Hunters, Haja Boy's Breakfast Meal and Hunt Tricks Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.
C
It is an honor to share.
D
No, it's our honor.
C
It is our larger honor.
D
No, really, stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side
A
and participate in McDonald's while supplies last.
C
You're never just one thing.
D
You're the boss. Hey Google, when's my next meeting? The athlete that class wrecks me and their mom. Everyone in the all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. Learn more@mazdausa.com Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.
Hosts: Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Will Arnett
Guest: Amanda Peet
Date: April 13, 2026
In this warm, candid, and often hilarious episode, "SmartLess" welcomes acclaimed actor, writer, and producer Amanda Peet. The conversation, as always, unfolds organically with the irreverent trio of hosts diving into Amanda’s journey as an artist, her evolution from stage fright to showrunning, grappling with recent personal health and family loss, balancing humor with hardship, and the triumphs and self-doubt that come with a multifaceted career in the public eye. The hour offers deep insights, sharp wit, and surprising vulnerability, making it a standout entry in the SmartLess canon.
“They saw acting…as you wanna join the circus, you wanna be a hooker?” (18:18, Amanda)
“I was in psychoanalysis at age 13… The idea that there are these inciting incidents… that’s storytelling.” (23:13, Amanda)
“The story that I’ve been telling myself about who I am… has become this thing that I’m now…almost 56 and going like, wait, I gotta look at that.” (24:03, Will) “Nor is any 13-year-old [a reliable narrator]… There’s a lot of blame.” (24:31, Amanda)
“I try to pretend that David or Sarah Paulson are there at Video Village—they’ll call bullshit.” (31:43, Amanda)
“We didn’t tell the kids right away…cancer, most types, it takes a while to find out where you are. The waiting is insane-making.” (59:43–60:25, Amanda)
“Just goes to show, you have no idea what anybody's going through at any time.” (63:21, Sean)
“Not only is it an incredible piece of writing, but…the subject matter…it left me with real wet cheeks at the end.” (51:47, Jason)
“It’s not like I chose not to work in a movie for 10 years. I just couldn’t get arrested!” (66:42, Amanda)
| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 11:14 | Amanda Peet introduced | | 13:06 | Amanda’s “addiction” to exercise | | 14:43 | Early career: “Southie,” stage fright, first big movie roles | | 16:16 | “As soon as you want to be good, you’re dead.” | | 21:20 | On early therapy and family dynamics | | 23:13 | Teenage psychoanalysis and connection to narrative | | 24:31 | Creating personal narratives (Will and Amanda on self-understanding) | | 31:43 | Acting strategy – performing for trusted friends | | 34:23 | Memories from working with Jason (on set, the “wheelchair movie,” and more) | | 47:02 | Showrunning “The Chair” and the Friends Seminary controversy | | 51:31 | On being published in The New Yorker | | 56:13 | Amanda reveals breast cancer diagnosis, simultaneous loss of her father, and mother's hospice care | | 59:43 | Waiting for test results, process of telling family | | 62:21 | Multi-tasking through life’s hardships and maintaining career | | 65:21 | Fantasy Life details and SXSW Audience Award | | 69:08 | Daily life, sleep struggles, adjusting to new routines | | 73:07 | Book and podcast recommendations | | 76:13 | Wrap-up: Gratitude and affection between hosts and Amanda |
This episode is a tour de force of humor-through-adversity, professional reinvention, and the power of authentic connection between friends—offering listeners rare perspective on both public success stories and the private battles behind them.