"Benedict Cumberbatch"

Summary

SmartLess – “Benedict Cumberbatch”

Hosts: Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Will Arnett
Guest: Benedict Cumberbatch
Aired: November 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively, candid, and comedic episode of SmartLess, Jason, Sean, and Will welcome acclaimed English actor Benedict Cumberbatch. The conversation breezes through Benedict’s unusual name, his family and upbringing, traveling and teaching in India, acting approaches, famed roles (Sherlock, Marvel, and The Hobbit), and his newest project, “The Thing with Feathers.” The episode is packed with laughter, vulnerability about parenting and creativity, and sharp insights into acting and life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Welcoming Benedict and Name Trivia

• Benedict’s arrival is announced enthusiastically, with Jason listing his many attributes and quirky details—like having two middle names (Benedict Timothy Carlton Cumberbatch) [08:54].
• Benedict jokes about the family tradition of squeezing names in and the challenges of being an only child compared to his wife Sophie, who comes from a family of three [09:09, 10:08].

Notable Quote

“It’s a real privilege to listen to the top of the show as your surprise guest. I was panicking, thinking, ‘Oh Christ, if I laugh, will they hear me?’”
—Benedict, [09:17]

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2. Parenting, Nature vs. Nurture, and Kids

• The hosts and Benedict discuss parenting—Sean admits he can't swim, and Benedict reflects on raising three kids, the joys and challenges, and how siblings relate [10:13–12:39].
• The classic nature vs. nurture debate comes up, with Benedict offering a balanced view but leaning slightly toward ‘nature’ as a powerful force in shaping who children become [14:10–15:59].

Notable Quotes

“They arrive with something that's beyond our understanding... but I think it does need a lot of nurture and love.”
—Benedict, [14:41]

“They’re here to teach us, really... It's mostly nature. They are innately, not inertly—very much, actively—wonderful.”
—Benedict, [16:15]

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3. Upbringing, Boarding School, and Early Influences

• Benedict talks about being an only child, raised by two actors (Wanda Ventham and Timothy Carlton), and shares humorous asides about his parents discouraging an acting path [16:41–18:02].
• He recalls the thrill of watching his mother perform and how solitary childhood bred a strong imagination [19:11].
• The group delves into the realities of British boarding schools, likening them to “Hogwarts,” and their pros/cons for childhood development [24:18–31:07]. Benedict started boarding at age 8 and describes both camaraderie and a desire for a broader world [25:18].

Notable Quote

“Even the real farces... very misogynistic and homophobic at times... I can't be your son and call myself proud if you keep doing this.”
—Benedict (on his mother’s theater roles), [19:10]

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4. Teaching in India & Seeking Adventure

• Benedict discusses taking a gap year to teach English in a Tibetan community near Darjeeling, India. He describes the hardship, beauty, spiritual growth, and sense of adventure it brought [34:00–37:40].
• The hosts turn this into a running joke about “how do you clean yourself” in remote places, illustrating the episode’s playful tone [37:40–38:38].

Notable Quote

“I just had this very strong gravitational pull in my soul. I thought, I have to do this.”
—Benedict, [34:35]

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5. The Craft of Acting & Early Career

• The group shifts to Benedict’s early roles. He describes his first film set (“To Kill a King”) and TV job (“Heartbeat”), facing nerves, and learning from his parents’ experiences [39:51–42:18].
• On watching himself perform: Benedict generally avoids it, feeling it distracts from being present and authentic—unless reflection is specifically helpful [42:52–43:22].
• Discussion about collaboration and direction: Benedict emphasizes trusting directors, reacting to their prompts, and being excited by new challenges [45:09].

Notable Quotes

“I suppose Mum and dad helped in that regard... I was a little bit aware of what you do and don't do on a set…”
—Benedict, [41:10]

“The best directors... give you a prompt that turns everything around 180 degrees. That’s what excites me.”
—Benedict, [45:45]

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6. Taking Big Swings & Self-Doubt

• Sean asks about taking big creative risks. Benedict recalls playing Stephen Hawking as a pivotal, daunting moment [46:57].
• The conversation turns to ongoing vulnerability—even for top-tier actors—which provides comfort to the hosts and listeners [55:56].
• On roles with passionate fan bases (Sherlock, Star Trek, Marvel), Benedict admits to feeling responsibility but stresses that ultimately he must “forget about them” and focus on a committed performance [61:55].

Notable Quotes

“You have to make a commitment to something that can’t please everyone. If you play the aggregate game, you’re dead in the water…”
—Benedict, [61:55]

“Know that I’m shitting it. Know that I don’t know what I’m doing on a first day. Know that I doubt myself…”
—Benedict, [55:56]

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7. Comedy, Chemistry, & Cherished Rituals

• There are frequent running gags about cleaning oneself, mustard, loofahs, and how Sean can’t swim—reflecting the show’s improvisational humor [38:06, 39:43, 56:30].
• The group discusses how British theater cherishes communal check-ins pre-show—a custom Sean found odd but Benedict appreciates [57:46–58:40].

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8. Diverse Roles, Surfing, and Vulnerabilities

• The hosts marvel at Benedict’s ability to tackle a wide range of roles—from Smaug to Dr. Strange to “The Power of the Dog.”
• Jason asks what he wishes he was as good at as acting: Benedict picks surfing and speaking foreign languages, sharing a story about learning to surf in New Zealand during “Power of the Dog” [63:04–65:03].

Notable Quote

“I can’t explain to anyone who hasn’t surfed what that feeling is of nature giving you a ride… It’s just magic when it works.”
—Benedict, [65:03]

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9. Upcoming Projects: “The Thing with Feathers” & “Rogue Male”

• Benedict talks about producing and starring in “The Thing with Feathers,” adapted from Max Porter’s “Grief Is the Thing with Feathers.” It’s about male grief after sudden loss and told in a magical realist way—with a crow as a central figure [67:05–69:17].
• Will asks about the long-gestating adaptation of the classic novel “Rogue Male,” which Benedict is passionate about making happen soon [71:08–72:44].

Notable Quote

“It’s... about dealing with [loss] as an acceptance of something you live with. And it comes alive... in the form of the dad's work... a crow that comes fully to life… a hero, an absolute nightmare, a ferocious noise in the head, a tormentor, and an ally against despair.”
—Benedict, [67:57]

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10. Closing Moments: Gratitude, Mutual Admiration, and Playful Banter

• Benedict thanks the hosts and praises Will’s performance in “Maestro,” highlighting a collegial camaraderie and shared humility [73:06–73:55].
• The hosts reflect on Benedict's range, team-player attitude, and kindness, closing out with SmartLess-style comedy riffs and inside jokes [74:45–76:59].

Notable Quotes

“It’s pretty cool how he dances between the comedy, the drama, the big Marvel stuff, and also things like, like… really cool niche films.”
—Jason, [75:09]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Name trivia and intro: [08:54]
• Parenting and nature/nurture: [10:13]–[16:15]
• Boarding school & childhood: [16:41]–[25:18]
• Teaching in India: [34:00]–[37:40]
• First acting gigs: [39:51]–[42:18]
• Reflections on acting approach: [42:52], [45:09], [46:57]
• Fan expectations & iconic roles: [61:55]
• Surfing & personal growth: [63:04]
• 'The Thing with Feathers' project: [67:05], [69:17]
• 'Rogue Male' project: [71:08]
• Closing gratitude and final banter: [73:06], [75:09]

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Memorable Quotes (with Attribution & Timestamps)

• “It's a real privilege to listen to the top of the show as your surprise guest. I was panicking...” —Benedict [09:17]
• “They arrive with something that's beyond our understanding... you do see these extraordinary creatures just become something of their own accord.” —Benedict [14:41]
• “My way of doing it differently was perhaps going, okay, the things that you've done... maybe... but I knew I was throwing it to the wind and I knew I was chancing it.” —Benedict [20:42]
• “I just had this very strong gravitational pull in my soul. I thought, I have to do this.” —Benedict [34:35]
• “You have to make a commitment to something that can't please everyone. If you play the aggregate game, you're dead in the water…” —Benedict [61:55]
• “Know that I'm shitting it. Know that I don't know what I'm doing on a first day. Know that I doubt myself...” —Benedict [55:56]
• "It comes alive in the form of... a crow that comes fully to life as this horrific entity that's both Mary Poppins to the children and... a ferocious noise in the head, a tormentor and an ally against despair." —Benedict [67:57]
• “It’s pretty cool how he dances between the comedy, the drama, the big Marvel stuff, and also like, like… really cool niche films…” —Jason [75:09]

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Episode Tone

The episode is warm, highly improvisational, and peppered with recurring jokes (swimming, “how do you clean yourself?”, loofahs and mustard). Despite the humor, it’s filled with candid insights on acting, parenting, and growing up, and Benedict’s openness about vulnerability and creativity is at the heart of the conversation.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

This SmartLess episode is a spirited deep dive into Benedict Cumberbatch’s fascinating life—his family, early influences, world travels, acting philosophy, famous roles, and new creative ventures. The hosts’ playful rapport draws out Benedict’s humor and thoughtfulness, making complex topics like parenting, artistry, and loss both accessible and moving. Whether you’re a diehard Cumberbatch fan or new to his work, this episode offers a rich, humanizing portrait—brimming with both laughter and wisdom.

Transcript

[Sean Hayes]

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[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Hey, what's up?

[Sean Hayes]

Hey, it's me. Oh no, it's you. You just said your name. I know, I'm just talking to you. It' Relax about it. Hey, we're about to do another episode of Smart List. Hey. For Tracy Cold open. This is a cold open. Cold open. It's like. Hey, she knows what cold open is. Hey, shut up. I'm talking to her right now. Just give me two seconds. I gotta explain what a cold open is. She knows what a cold open. She's said it a million times. Ah, Tracy, cold open is what you say at the beginning of an episode before you start the episode so people know you're starting the episode. I'm exhausted. Me too. Me as well. Don't forget about me. Also me. Welcome to Smartless Smart.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Less.

[Will Arnett]

Smart. Smart.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, what was that?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Oh, God. That was probably our surprise guest.

[Will Arnett]

Our surprise guest, fellas.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Probably just.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, no. Where.

[Jason Bateman]

So let's see. Everybody is at home Base. It's seems like. Willie, where are you?

[Will Arnett]

I'm at Mug Island.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, you're back there. What are you doing back there?

[Will Arnett]

Our little R and R. I just made a little quick scoot out here for. For a night.

[Jason Bateman]

What, did you, like, forget a pair of shoes you really liked out there?

[Will Arnett]

No, Jason, no.

[Jason Bateman]

But I mean, seriously, isn't it a hassle trying to figure out what you're going to keep in your second home's closet versus what's back in Los Angeles? Is it mostly winter wear out there on the island?

[Will Arnett]

It's a lot of. A lot of winter. We. I. And it's. And it's chilly out here right now, so it's been really. It was.

[Sean Hayes]

I love that.

[Will Arnett]

Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. No, I came out here with my little guy yesterday and just to kind of stick around. We were walking around, went into town, went to the bookstore.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, that's nice.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, it cranked up the. The pool even though it's cold out, which is real fun.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

And. Yeah, and just super nice.

[Jason Bateman]

Does he swim yet? Yeah, he does.

[Will Arnett]

You know, he. Yes, he's. He's in the process.

[Jason Bateman]

Slowly now.

[Will Arnett]

Slower. Yeah, he's. He's five, so he's not. But he's come a long way. Like, he's. You know, he does that thing where, like, he can swim underwater, you know, so they. Whatever they don't. Can't do in terms of strokes, they just can do it underwater.

[Jason Bateman]

Get. Hey, hey, dad, that means he can't swim.

[Will Arnett]

Okay.

[Jason Bateman]

You know, swimming is trying to keep yourself buoyant and above.

[Will Arnett]

I know, I know.

[Jason Bateman]

You know, I know.

[Sean Hayes]

I can't really swim either. Did you guys. Yeah, I was petrified.

[Will Arnett]

Are you. Are you a. Are you a weak swimmer?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I can't. I don't know how to do it. I run out of breath in like 10 seconds.

[Jason Bateman]

No, truly.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I don't. I can. I don't have the. I don't have the lung support to swim.

[Will Arnett]

That's not true.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, you support to swim again. If you swim, you don't need.

[Will Arnett]

How do you not have the.

[Jason Bateman]

You don't need to hold your breath if you can, actually.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, but the actual aerobic kind of movements that make your heart pump faster than you have to breathe faster. I just fail really quickly at it.

[Will Arnett]

Okay.

[Sean Hayes]

Do you know what I mean?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I mean.

[Will Arnett]

Hang on, hang on. Yeah, Please do this. I just want to take this one apart a little. I can't be the only person that can't swim. No, you're not. But but no, do you.

[Jason Bateman]

You get too tired to keep yourself from drowning.

[Sean Hayes]

That's what it is.

[Will Arnett]

Well, is that because you're panicking and so you're catching your short of breath?

[Sean Hayes]

No, I think maybe I just do too much too quickly. I don't realize how to. I don't know how to swim, so I paddle really fast, then I use up all my energy. Really?

[Jason Bateman]

Immediate panic.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah. I wish.

[Will Arnett]

I wish people could see the motions that Shani's doing. Shawnee, do you. Did you ever take swim lessons? Clearly not.

[Jason Bateman]

He's moving both hands at the same time. Listener instead of. You know, most of us rotate right hand, left hand, right arm, left arm.

[Sean Hayes]

I only know.

[Will Arnett]

But, Sean, you can. You exercise and you don't run out of breath.

[Sean Hayes]

I know. I don't understand it.

[Jason Bateman]

So what about, like, walking up a bunch of steps? Like, if you walk up too many stairs, you don't just, like, collapse and roll down the stairs, right?

[Sean Hayes]

No, no, no, no. I don't. I don't know what it is about the swimming or the pool.

[Jason Bateman]

Just go slower up the stairs so you can make it.

[Will Arnett]

Are you swimming? Like, have you got a.

[Sean Hayes]

Like, I don't float right.

[Will Arnett]

Well, none of us do. That's surprising. Do you. I mean, have you got, like, a corn dog in your hand? What's going on? That. You. By the way, I love a corn dog.

[Sean Hayes]

It should be noted in the pool.

[Will Arnett]

I love a corn dog.

[Jason Bateman]

Really? I do, too. And I feel like they've kind of gone by the way of, like, the bungee jumping and things like that.

[Will Arnett]

I wouldn't know if I put them.

[Jason Bateman]

In the stretch limousine category is bungee jumping. I want to know where all the stretch limousines and the corn dogs have gone.

[Will Arnett]

But you get some. You get a corn dog. You get a corn dog and you dip it in some. Just yellow French's mustard.

[Sean Hayes]

Yes. That's the best ever.

[Will Arnett]

Forget it.

[Sean Hayes]

I know.

[Jason Bateman]

What about some of a little cheese. Little cheese dip?

[Will Arnett]

Well, cheese dip.

[Jason Bateman]

Throw it in.

[Will Arnett]

Cheese dip.

[Jason Bateman]

A little tub of cheese.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, I'll do that. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Hot dog on a stick. Was. Was a big. Was a big spot out here with the. With the funny multicolored hats.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

How do you guys.

[Will Arnett]

Where was that? No, Never heard of it.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, we had a bunch of those, like, in the valley. There was some out at the beach. Sean, I'm surprised you're. You're not a hot dog on a stick guy.

[Sean Hayes]

I don't. I'm. I'm. Who says I'm not? I. I try it I'll try it.

[Jason Bateman]

No, no, no, but I mean, that was like. That was a famous. That was a great spot.

[Will Arnett]

What about. What about a. I had this discussion with somebody. What about a pig in a blanket?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, I do enjoy those.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. And a puff pastry. Anything.

[Jason Bateman]

Speaking of which, I have not seen Scotty in a long time.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, he's just around. Oh, he's all tidied up on the couch.

[Jason Bateman]

I'm sorry. No, that's a. That's a bear and a comforter. Sorry, I. I've confused the two. Yeah, cub and a comforter.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, my.

[Sean Hayes]

It's a cub cuberter.

[Jason Bateman]

Scotty's gonna kick my ass when he sees me next.

[Sean Hayes]

That's really funny.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, listen, that's a great cue for.

[Sean Hayes]

What if you just panned over and.

[Jason Bateman]

He'S on the couch just in like a snuggie.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. What if you just walked up to Scotty, just started squirting French's mustard on.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Him.

[Jason Bateman]

And taking big bites or licks.

[Will Arnett]

Here goes. Here goes, guys.

[Jason Bateman]

We got a real live one today. All right? This guest is a man with talent.

[Will Arnett]

Okay?

[Jason Bateman]

Looks, smarts. He's got many nominations, plenty of wins, box office, sock, critical respect. He's got massive dramatic range, razor sharp comedic skills and a British accent. Oh, my, the triple Crown. But most importantly, he's got a wife, he's got three sons, and one of the best names in the Screen Actors Guild Directory. Friends, say hello to Benedict Cumberbatch.

[Will Arnett]

No kidding.

[Jason Bateman]

Come on, Al. He's also got two middle names, too. Two middle names?

[Sean Hayes]

What are they? What are they?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

As if it wasn't enough. Benedict Timothy. Carlton.

[Jason Bateman]

Timothy Carlton. It gets better.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I use them on off days. No, that's Dad's name. It's just. It's a thing of just trying to squeeze the whole family into one small child.

[Sean Hayes]

Benedict Timothy. Carl. What is it again?

[Jason Bateman]

Carlton.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Carlton.

[Sean Hayes]

Carlton Cumberbatch.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Fabulous.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

How are you? So nice to meet you.

[Jason Bateman]

Drinking, man. You guys.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I'm good. I mean, I'm already. I mean, I'm.

[Will Arnett]

I can't.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I can't. I've got a rictus grin on my face. I can hardly speak. Not only because of that absurdly nice introduction, but it's a. It's a real privilege to listen to the top of the show as your surprise guest. And I was panicking. I was thinking, oh, Christ, if I laugh. If I laugh, will they hear me laugh? Would you? You completely.

[Jason Bateman]

If Bennett and Rob were on the stick, they'd have your mic down before we Introduce you and instead we're hearing you dropping shit. Bennett. Rob. God damn it.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

No, there was a sound like my body dropping with shock at being your surprise guest and that was that. That. I am in my house with my wife and aforementioned three kids. So that was probably the wind catching a door. Let's hope it's not a temper tantrum. That might.

[Will Arnett]

How old were an intruder?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

They are.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Guys, I gotta go. Actually, this is quite serious.

[Will Arnett]

I don't get murdered on the show.

[Jason Bateman]

Be great. Great.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

That would be a first. Ratings.

[Jason Bateman]

The boys are how old?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

6, 8 and 10.

[Jason Bateman]

6 and 10. Well planned.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Jesus. Was that on purpose? Kind of let's do two years apart kind of.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yes. We just want. We did want to get on with it.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

And Sophie's a trooper. She's amazing.

[Jason Bateman]

Good thinking. I didn't. For some reason, you know, because I'm. People know I'm super bright. I. I missed it. I wanted three and I just didn't plan it well. And there's a five year gap. 2. And then we just got to. We just aged out. Couldn't have a third, you know.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, great story.

[Jason Bateman]

Anyway.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Hey, what's up.

[Will Arnett]

By the way? Or you could do what I did, just have the gap anyway and then just, you know.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, and just reload.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, sorry.

[Jason Bateman]

Hang on.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

There's a better way to say that.

[Jason Bateman]

There's a better way to say that.

[Will Arnett]

So to speak.

[Jason Bateman]

Still rolling.

[Will Arnett]

Unload.

[Jason Bateman]

Let's reset.

[Sean Hayes]

What?

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, Jesus.

[Sean Hayes]

Benedict. Is that something? The three. The three kids. Is it something that. Is it like. Did you guys agree to a number or was it just like, well, we're living life and this is what happened.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Sophie comes from three, and now I'm an only child. So I panicked when our second was on the way. And what do you do? Do you divide yourself? How do you love as much both things without necessarily having more time to do that? And, you know, there are the odd moments when you're on a kind of solo date with them, with one of them, and you kind of go, am I really cheating out of a lot of this? But then you see them when they're not trying to kill each other, getting on as friends, and think, no, I've the gift of a lifetime that'll outlast me. You have three. You have two people in your life that will always be there.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Whether you want it or not at times. But, you know, it's. It's amazing. So I swung around to the idea pretty quickly and I love it. I love a kind of Tribe of.

[Jason Bateman]

Cubs rolling like, yeah, you sort of like you started to go there a bit on. Like, as I thought about that when I had my second kid, I was like, well, wait, am I going to be able to love this one as much as I love the first one?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

And you're like, are you an only child?

[Jason Bateman]

No, I, I have a.

[Will Arnett]

It just acts like one.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

What do you say?

[Jason Bateman]

But no, like when I had, when, when we had Maple. Wait, we already had Franny and five years later we have Maple. And I was so crazy about Franny. And then here comes Maple, right? A stranger comes in the house, brand new baby, and you're just like, well, I, I can't wait to get to know you. I hope I love you as much as the first one. And like, what you. It's a tall order turnout.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

No, but then she'll be talking.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

About it in therapy.

[Jason Bateman]

No, I think a lot of parents probably go through that. Right. Whether you're aware of it or not.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I think it's a very natural reaction because the first time you have a child it is to say, oh, your entire. All of it changes the orbit of the world. The way you see your parents, your place in that whole thing is just utterly realized at a very real moment. And that is, it is what I'm trying to say. You think, oh, this is it. This is what life's about. And you go, oh, no. But it's. Until the next one, it has to be the same. And it is. But it's weird. It's the same as women forgetting most of the time. But you know, that physiologically forget, apparently the birth pain about what women go through.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I can't imagine otherwise. Why would your human body even want to be able to be impregnated? You know, it's just the whole thing or wear heels, focuses on this, it heals. And sure, we're just, you know, go ahead, Will.

[Will Arnett]

No, I'm not expanding on that.

[Jason Bateman]

No, no, you don't want to touch that one, please.

[Will Arnett]

But it is funny. And what's amazing too is, is how different and God, I'm like the quadrillion person to bring this up, but I also have three boys, Benedict. And how entirely different they are from each other.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Absolutely.

[Will Arnett]

Even my boys, who are less than two years apart are so vastly different personal, personality wise, and had virtually the same experience growing up, you know.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

And I've said this before. What are you, what's your take on this, Benedict? How much do you think is nature, how much do you think Is nurture. Right. Because these three boys, it's all nature. Right. I mean, you could nurture, I think.

[Sean Hayes]

Here we go.

[Jason Bateman]

Answering the question for the guests again, which I love to do, I think it's like 5 or 10%. You can move your kid, good or bad, otherwise you just. You get what you get. If they're gonna be fantastic, they're fantastic. If they're gonna be a challenge, they're gonna be a challenge. You can have the best parents in the world, and it's just. You get what you get. What do you think?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Well, I. I don't know. I think you're right about. They arrive with something that's beyond our understanding, really. There is this thing which, if you're really open to it, especially those first sort of five, seven years, and you present the world as a thing that's open and full of wonder and a safe place and full of magic, as we very much know, sometimes in reality it isn't. But if you give them that space just to be themselves, you do see these extraordinary creatures just become something of their own accord. But I think it does need a lot of nurture and love. However, you know, you're right within that they do things which are certainly to do with nature, because how can a child give you love in a time of need? As an adult, which I've experienced in my family, and partly to do with the film we're gonna talk about at some point, but, you know, it feels like they are capable, in the words of Max Porter in the novel, of giving something back that isn't. It's not asked for. It's not caused by anything other than them having an empathy or a link or an understanding of what love is.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, that human instinct, they come preloaded.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

You'Re innately born with, and. Yeah, and I think without getting too wishy washy about it, if I haven't already, that is nature. That is something sent from somewhere.

[Jason Bateman]

You start crying in the first 15 minutes, we're gonna have a problem.

[Will Arnett]

Jason, real quick. Empathy is. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

No, I think it's.

[Sean Hayes]

It's.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, it's.

[Sean Hayes]

It's.

[Jason Bateman]

It's. It's. It's. It's a mind blower.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

It is a mind blower. It is a mind blow.

[Jason Bateman]

And I'd have 12 kids if I could.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, I. I think they. They're here to teach us, really. So, like you say, I think it is. I don't know about percentiles, but it's mostly nature. They are inertly, innately, not inertly Very much, actively. Wonderful.

[Jason Bateman]

Let's go back there with you, Benedict. Yeah, let's go back there with your childhood. So you say you were an only child and you were born to two actors? Yes, mom and dad.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Mom and dad. Wanda Vantham and Timothy Carlton.

[Jason Bateman]

That's amazing. Right.

[Sean Hayes]

It's so common on our show too, when we have somebody as prolific as you that it seems like they always come from an artist's family.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, but rarely two actors though, Right. Usually they're sculptors or poets or something like that, but. So then I'm sure the answer would be no to the question of was there pressure to become an actor? It was probably just something that you were just naturally interested in. Cause you saw your two first heroes doing that.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

And also I was, if anything, pressured the other way, like, don't do what we're doing. It's a stupid way to spend a life. Look how peripatetic and useless we are at other things. And how family life is a chaotic jumble of loose end commitments that have to be abandoned at the last minute because Dad's got an advert audition. I mean, it was just, you know, they did really, really well in their careers, Mum, especially commercially. Dad brilliantly as well, in the theater. He did a lot of the Royal Court in the early days of kitchen sink drama there. But the point is, you know, they wanted me to have the. That they didn't or that they didn't have in their life as my parents. And they afforded me an education where I could have gone on to be a lawyer or something of that ill. That was the only other thing I flirted with, which is why I say that I. I did for a while.

[Will Arnett]

Sean flirted with a lawyer in the parking lot last night.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

And then I got taken to court for it.

[Jason Bateman]

But what do you mean they wanted. But Benedict, they. They wanted you have access to opportunity to something more predictable in your life.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Career wise, I think something more stable, definitely. But the bug had bit, really. And it was very much to do with watching them in their prime doing what they did. And I remember my dad in cast of Noises off, this amazing Michael Frame play that's about. It's a farce within a farce. It's this amazingly kaleidoscopic, brilliant examination of a British tradition of comedy which obviously you guys know, called farce. My mum was doing the real thing. And even the real farces that were very double entendre heavy, very misogynistic and homophobic at times as well, to the point I said, mum, you really can't do another play where you walk into a room where your husband is having his pants pulled down by his male PA and it looks like fellatio. Whereas in fact, he's just trying to give him a quick change and his dress is stuck. I can't.

[Will Arnett]

I can't.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I can't be your son and call myself proud if you keep doing this, but I do remember, perversely to that embarrassment, sort of sitting in the wings and watching her go through and just be mum and sort of chatting to me and saying hello to the SM and then just kind of opening the door in this light and heat and noise of what was happening in front of those flats, hitting her and her just transforming, just in the blink of an eye. And I thought, what is that? What just happened to my mum? Where did she go? And, yeah, I kind of got a taste for that. And as an only child, I think you're kind of already locked in a bit to quite a solitary imaginary universe.

[Jason Bateman]

When was it that you understood what they were kind of talking about when it comes to the career that you can't really count on? Like, how young were you? And do you remember that moment of going, yeah, but I get. It's unpredictable, but I still want to go for it and try it.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Numerous occasions. I'm too old to really remember. But still today. Still today, exactly right.

[Will Arnett]

For all of us.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

No, I think, I think a bit, yeah. Am I really doing this? I'm doing. You know, there were moments when I thought, okay, sage advice from ones who know, but I'm gonna do it differently. I think I've got a different way into this and I don't know that it will be different. And in fact, really all I wanted was what they have, which is a career and respect from their peers and. And having a good time doing a job they love, you know, and that.

[Sean Hayes]

That's.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

What a great way to live your life.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, yeah, you were. You were chasing the race.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

So, you know, my way of doing it differently was perhaps going, okay, well, the things that you've. You've done in your. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. But I. I knew I was throwing. I knew I was throwing it to the wind and I knew I was chancing it. But I think the moment I thought, I can't really not do this is when I got serious about A levels before going to college at university in England, obviously. And, yeah, I met a lot of lawyers who were saying, look, turn back now. People who were doing bar exams or People who'd made it into to being part of a chambers or even people practicing going. It's just. It's really pretty hard. It's an oversubscribed profession. It's very powerful being a lawyer.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

You're only as good as your last case. I thought that sounds very familiar. Why am I doing this? Which would have required an inordinate amount of work. I'm not that smart at all. And I would have had to work so hard for what? For as big a risk at least.

[Jason Bateman]

The credentials, the stuff you come out of college with, you are somewhat guaranteed a base salary and some future to it. Whereas with anything in the arts, you don't have that. And so if one or two or three of your boys said, hey, I want to go into acting, would you. What would you. As a father, would you recommend that they dedicate the requisite number of years needed to kind of build a base? Or would you say, ah, but to.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Have a backup, you mean?

[Jason Bateman]

Or put that time into something that is a bit more predictable, where there's a guarantee you can count on. Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

As a parent, of course.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Because you worry about what the world will be, let alone what their talent will be or won't be recognized as and where their ambitions and dreams are and their expectations of what the reality is and the gap between that. You know, you never know that you're gonna get to where you want to be. Certainly.

[Will Arnett]

I just. So I tell my kids all the time, roll the dice. I'm always like, just roll the dice. Just fucking.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, I'm afraid, you know, I did.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

It, I did it. So. Yeah, well, how can I. How can I. How can I turn them away from something that I know ended up doing?

[Will Arnett]

So actually, you know what's funny? You know what's funny though? I will say what the difference now is. Well, one of my sons, I think is gonna likely pursue something in the arts. And the other one is. Yeah, and the. And. And he's sort of leading that way and the other one is not. He's. And he was talking about some areas and I said, here's the thing that they're talking about with amongst their friends. He's. It's my eldest son. He's. He's. He's a junior in high school here, so he's 17. He says, I said they have to talk about the. What. What are the jobs out there going forward that are going to be affected by AI and so, so kids are thinking about like, you know, they don't want to become Computer programmers or they're not going to become, you know, things like graphic design. Well, by the way, go down lawyers as well, paralegal work. All that stuff is going to be handled by AI. So now you're not competing against other kids, you're competing against the computers of the world.

[Jason Bateman]

Right, right, right, right. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. I, it's, I don't, I don't, I don't envy them right now and I.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

We, yeah, we're avoiding the fact that AI is massively in, in our industry as well.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, it's just, Course it is.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, yeah. What's safe? All right. Before we get.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

It's evening here and I just. Can you see? I can't.

[Will Arnett]

It just got really dark there.

[Sean Hayes]

Dark.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, it got really, really dark. It's very moody.

[Jason Bateman]

That's very nice.

[Will Arnett]

It's beautiful.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, nice. Now is that better? Oh, Benedict. Okay, got it.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, it's Benedict.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, it's Benedict Cover badge.

[Jason Bateman]

All right. So like, like Sweet Willie Arnett, you did some time in boarding school. Was that a positive experience or was it a. Because I get homesick real easy. That, that would be tough for me.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

How long have we got?

[Jason Bateman]

I.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I just the perfect mixture of both, I'd say. The first one was amazing. I mean, I'm an only child, as I keep saying it. I, I had a band of brothers for the first time in my life. So that was, yeah, that was Easy street to 13 and then the 30, the whole adolescence thing. And it was a single sex one and it was at the sort of top of a hill looking down over the London basin and yet so, oh, so very far away from it. And I just thought this isn't quite right. This isn't real. The demographic was very narrow and no girls and I just, I, I, the school itself was extraordinary. Some amazing teachers and fantastic experiences. But at that point I was like, okay, the boarding thing, I think I'm done with. Not because I was homesick but because I just, I guess I wanted to be part of a broader community.

[Jason Bateman]

Sure.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

But that's a healthy thing. That's also a very healthy thing to be straining away as that was me leaving the nest. I was at the age of eight. I boarded when I was eight.

[Jason Bateman]

We'll be right back.

[Sean Hayes]

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[Jason Bateman]

And now back to the show.

[Will Arnett]

Wait. So Bennett, you were eight when you went away? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

How old were you?

[Will Arnett]

That's. I was 12, but my roommate had come from when I was 12. I was in seventh grade. My roommate had just come from boarding school in England and he'd been there since he was seven.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I bet you it's easier when you go younger, right Will, than when you're older because you just, you've, you've, you've created those relationships when you once you were way younger.

[Will Arnett]

Yes. I mean I'll sort of, I'll Sort of jump on what Benedict said, which is you do create. Now I have siblings. I have two older sisters and a younger brother.

[Jason Bateman]

Quick, what are their names?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Gary, Birthday. What's our sign? Are they. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Target Hit. Tesco and Tannis and Shanley are my sisters and my brother's name is Chuck, AKA Charles. So anyway, I was at Border, but I went when I was 12. And you do have. And I'm still friends with some of those guys that I went to school with because in those formative years and I also was just all boys when I went. It was all boys. It's now co ed, but it is. You know, when I look back on it now, and I don't know how you feel about it, Benedict, but the idea of my boys going away. No way.

[Jason Bateman]

Right. I know.

[Will Arnett]

I couldn't stand.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

No. Not unless they really want to, but no way, no way, no way. And Sophie's the same mindset, you know, we do. Yeah. And selfishly, I want them around. I want to be. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Even summer camp, whatever.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Word over, dad, whatever pushed away. I am. I still want to be there in case the call comes, the fall happens. The. The need.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. So can I ask a question to the group here?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Because I don't have.

[Will Arnett]

So I mean, just one. Let me look at the clock real quick. Okay. Yeah, if you make it quick. Yes.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. Benedict, get comfortable. This is going to be a long question.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, off. When you asked a question. No. Is. Is what is the.

[Sean Hayes]

Because I don't know about boarding school. Why would a parent send their kid to boarding school?

[Jason Bateman]

Better education.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Focus.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay.

[Jason Bateman]

Yes. Question.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Amazing facilities.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Very immersive education experience where, you know, you have, well, the beginning of it only where you have a very structured timetable. So you. There's sort of purpose to your day. It's very fulfilling. God, I sound like a brochure. But.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. Because it always sounds like a jail or something.

[Will Arnett]

No.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I guess. No, no. They're very plush places.

[Jason Bateman]

It's like Hogwarts. It's like incredible. Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Oh, that is exactly how it was described once by Martin Freeman. He said, I went to a Norse school and Benedict went to Hogwarts, which I kind of did. It wasn't wizard school, but it was a particularly old one.

[Will Arnett]

It is, but it is true. And you know, think about all those things you learn how to. You know, by the time I got to college and I dropped out quickly from college, but. And part of it was because everybody, my peers who were there who did not go to boarding school, it was their first time away from home. And I'd been away from home so, so much earlier that getting out, I was ready to get out of the world.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I was like, oh, fuck all that.

[Sean Hayes]

I'm ready to go.

[Will Arnett]

I've been looking at having a frat.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Party and like, isn't it cool to put. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

And you're like, no, I've already done this.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

True, true, true, true, true. And I think. I don't know. I'm here and I've come out of it okay. And I wouldn't really change it. I wouldn't know what I'd change it to. I didn't have any other experience.

[Will Arnett]

But like, Jason, who taught you how to tie a tie?

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, that would have been.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Or shoelaces.

[Jason Bateman]

Set dresser on set. Costumer for Arrested Development.

[Will Arnett]

Is that true?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Really?

[Jason Bateman]

But I did really nail it down on that because I had to tie a tie every. Every freaking day.

[Will Arnett]

And then loosen it.

[Jason Bateman]

And then loosen it.

[Will Arnett]

And then roll up the sleeves.

[Jason Bateman]

Roll up the sleeves.

[Will Arnett]

Because Michael Bluth. Can I just say something just as an aside? Michael Bluth, this guy got down. Well, he got down to business. He was rolling up those sleeves. If you go back and you watch Jason.

[Jason Bateman]

Until to this day. Well, you, you've given me a full complex about that because that's just, that's just Jason. That's not Michael Bluth. He says, I always roll up my sleeves on a button down shirt. And I still do it to this day. And I, I hear your stupid GMC voice every morning when I roll up my sleeves. It is getting down to business.

[Will Arnett]

Stupid.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

All right, now, how long have you two known each other? Was that, was that when you two first met on Arrested Development?

[Jason Bateman]

I think so.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Too long.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. And now we're stuck on this podcast. So now you must.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

You guys, it's such a blast being. I have to say I'm a huge, huge fan of this. And it's just, it's one of these things. One of my best friends put me on to said you. You got to hear the. I mean, I, I love all of your work individually, but the. Yeah, it's a very good thing you've got going here. It's fantastic.

[Will Arnett]

Thanks, man.

[Jason Bateman]

Now listen back to you. You must have enjoyed the education at the boarding school under the pets.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

When I said that you've become.

[Jason Bateman]

You become a teacher yourself and you teach English, what, in a Tibetan community? What's untrue? Just outside of Dijarling, India, huh?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah. Yes, I like that. Especially the pronunciation. Djarling. That's No, I. I was.

[Jason Bateman]

How do you say it?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

We should all now say it. Da Djarling.

[Jason Bateman]

Wait, what is it?

[Sean Hayes]

How do you.

[Jason Bateman]

Darling?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Did you go to Da Djarling, darling? No. Darjeeling. I think.

[Jason Bateman]

Darjeeling. That's it.

[Sean Hayes]

Darjeeling. Did you go to Jarling? No, I didn't have the time.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

My dad has this habit of doing. He says, oh, I think I'm gonna go to Marks and Spencer's and buy a Miles Bar.

[Will Arnett]

Dad. What?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

You're a trained actor. What did I do?

[Will Arnett]

Well, every summer in Ibiza, I like to dejay. You know, for like a week or two, I'll go down there to deejay. Dj. So sorry.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yes.

[Jason Bateman]

So it is true.

[Sean Hayes]

Wait, so you taught.

[Jason Bateman]

You taught English in a Tibetan community.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I mean, it teaches a very loose term. I kind of turned up and they giggled at me. Which was a fair enough cultural exchange. Well, no, it was very unfair. I learned so much, as you can imagine. I was a 19 year old kid who knew nothing, who'd come from a very kind of enclosed private school, boarding school, education. And it was the first talk at the school that we had given to us. This is the kind of school I went to. We got given talks about what you could do with your year out if you wanted to take one between school and school and. And college.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, a little gap year.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

A little gap year, exactly. And it was the first one I heard about and I just went. I didn't really listen to it being about teaching. It was all about being close to Tibetan culture. I just had this very strong gravitational pull in my soul. I thought, I have to do this. There's nothing. And people. What, don't you want to volunteer in Africa? Do you want to climb a mountain or do all these amazing opportunities? And I. I just was deaf to all of them because of how strongly I felt I needed to do this.

[Jason Bateman]

And what was the pull to the Tibetan culture? When did that start?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe in a previous lifetime. I really don't know.

[Will Arnett]

Whoa.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I. I mean, I was fascinated by it visually and I knew a bit about Buddhism, but it was just so overwhelming. And as was the experience I had, there was six months of. Well, five months of teaching and then some. Some tourism tied to the end.

[Jason Bateman]

Wandering about.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, wandering about India. Yep. And Nepal, which was. Both of which were extraordinary.

[Jason Bateman]

And any poll from Everest at all was it. Was that part of the pull at all? Because I've got this. I've got this fascination with Everest. But you want to do it.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I'd like. I'll do it. Yeah. I want to get to at least a base camp in my life.

[Jason Bateman]

Right. Wouldn't.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I would. But, you know, then you hear about how much pollution there is, how much tourism and craziness there is, and I kind of go, well, maybe there's a better mountain to walk to.

[Will Arnett]

Watch. Watch how quickly we can turn Jason off Everest. Do you know how dirty it is? Jason, Wait.

[Sean Hayes]

What?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

No, wait.

[Sean Hayes]

What?

[Will Arnett]

And the tents. The tents, dirty.

[Jason Bateman]

I just shower every night.

[Will Arnett]

You know, they don't have showers.

[Jason Bateman]

They don't change the linens.

[Will Arnett]

They don't change the linens. You can't use sanitizer.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

There's no ring the bell.

[Sean Hayes]

That would be scary. Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

But all right, so that was.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

So it was. The landscape did have a pool, in all seriousness. Of course it did. It's. It's such an extraordinary bit of geography, that whole area. And this. This is a foothill, so, going towards Darjeeling. And it's a little. Little hill station town called Sonada. And it was a converted Nepali house. And at the top was this monastery, this prayer room. Below was the monk's accommodation, the eating area, and then a small teaching area. And I might have got the height or numbers of levels wrong, but I was basically very much on the bottom. And it was really. We were high up in, what, 4,000 meters? Something like that. And, oh, my God, you open the window, and it was sort of coming into autumn and winter there, so the clouds would literally roll in like dry ice through the window. I mean, it was absolutely extraordinary and pretty basic. My dad reminded me his panic. This is pre cell phones. I'm that old. And the Internet as well, I'm that old. And it was a moment where I'd written in tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny scrawl on a blue airmail letter home one weekend, don't worry, dad, all the cold is solved. Now in my room as I have a gas heater and I've managed to block all the vents. And he was reading it going, oh, my God, he's gonna die of carbon monoxide poison. Yeah, I didn't. But, you know, might explain a few brain cells less that I have now. But, oh, my God. It was very basic but very romantic, very hard, very lonely, very elating, very inspiring and spiritually mind blowing and utterly mundane.

[Sean Hayes]

And how do you clean yourself?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

How do I clean myself? Sorry.

[Sean Hayes]

Like, how do you. Like, how do you.

[Jason Bateman]

We're talking about how many days?

[Sean Hayes]

How many days?

[Will Arnett]

Sean's talking to somebody off Camera.

[Jason Bateman]

He's setting up the weekend.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

He's talking to his dog, licking its balls.

[Jason Bateman]

How do you do that?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

We all want to know, Sean. We all want to know. I'll show you.

[Sean Hayes]

That's my teaching class. That's my.

[Will Arnett]

How do you.

[Jason Bateman]

He's talking to somebody.

[Will Arnett]

Show me how After. When I'm done. I'm the podcast and show me.

[Jason Bateman]

Sean, your mic's still hot.

[Will Arnett]

I can't wait to see. Show you. Show me after.

[Jason Bateman]

No, I'm recording a podcast.

[Will Arnett]

I'm doing it now. But you start. Start now. They can't see. Start.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Okay, wait.

[Sean Hayes]

I want to know. Okay, back to business.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

What the. What was your question about. But how do I clean myself?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. Even the real in general.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Buddhist monastery in an Upoli house.

[Sean Hayes]

No, when you. When you're out there in a tent for what, days?

[Will Arnett]

Weeks?

[Sean Hayes]

What do you. How do you. What do you do?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

No, no, no, no. I was in a house. I was in a house.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh. Next question.

[Jason Bateman]

He's filling in for someone this week.

[Sean Hayes]

Benedict, I thought you were in a tent.

[Will Arnett]

Is it a zipper or buttons? It's a zipper or buttons. Show me a zipper.

[Jason Bateman]

Do you need a loofah back there? Scotty, get the loofah. All right, so let's move to now. So we're back from Djarling and we're gonna make a DJ. We're back from DJing, and we're gonna make a career of this acting thing. And we're gonna go for the acting and we get a little bit of momentum going and we're on our first film set, which is.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

That's a fucking long way into the story. But with. Maybe the only bit's boring. But yeah, go ahead.

[Jason Bateman]

To Kill a King is that first feature film role?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yes. I don't remember. Maybe that was my first few.

[Jason Bateman]

But do you remember? Do you remember what that first being on a set for the first time. How did that jibe with what you had? You'd gone through all this great theater education. Acting education. And then you're on a set and you see all the equipment and you're just doing little bits at a time as opposed to theater. Like, how did that strike you, this film process?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I just remember. I remember small snippets of Dougray Scott being very lovely and serious and smoky voiced. I remember Julian Ryan Tutt being very sort of funny and witty and just being incredibly on it and me laughing quite a lot. I don't remember anything that I did in front of camera. I didn't come away going oh wow. Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Camera work. Interesting. Not cause it was a bad experience. I just. I'm being genuine about my lack of memory of that particular experience.

[Jason Bateman]

You don't remember being scolded for looking at the camera, did I?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Maybe I have. Maybe you've spoken to the director.

[Jason Bateman]

No, no, no. That would be my fault.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Well, no. So I mean, I guess, I guess. Well, two things. I suppose Mum and dad helped in that regard a little bit. Not cause they rehearsed me or anything like that, nothing stage mummy, but just I guess I was a little bit aware of what you do and don't do on a set, having been on a couple where they were doing their thing. But also, and funny enough, I'd been my first ever film job, TV job, was in Heartbeat, which is an ITV staple. Or was, I don't know if in England, a very nostalgic police drama set on the Yorkshire Dales. And was it the moors? Sorry, Yorkshire. God. Olivia did this when she was talking to you about Devon and Devon and Dorsey. It's Devon, by the way. That's where we filmed. See I do listen to your show and I just remember being very nervous on Heartbeat set. I do remember that very, very well. And just wondering, am I any good? I don't know what I'm doing and I know there's something capturing everything I'm doing. Unlike an audience which has this kind of multi camera perspective and you can't watch yourself back. You can. And I really wanted to, but I didn't. But I kind of wanted to know what the fuck am I doing? Am I doing too much, too little?

[Jason Bateman]

Because you didn't get any feedback like you were used to from like an audience, you know, from doing theater. Was that it?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

No, no, none. Because it's just a very, you know, well oiled machine. A crew that been doing it for literally decades. And yeah, it was just very kind of, oh well, I hope that's all right. I hope I get to work again, you know. And it was the first job I got. I was still at drama school so I had to ask permission. I was only at Lambda for one year, but I had to ask permission to do the job. You're not supposed to work if you're still out of drama school. Yeah, I don't know if that's changed. I hope it has in many ways but.

[Jason Bateman]

And now you mentioned not being able to see yourself back. I ask actors this. Do you watch yourself act? And if so, have you treated yourself to looking at your older work? And do you see A big difference between how you used to act versus today. And is that a. Do you applaud yourself for having gotten better? Different. How so? Smaller, bigger? Do you do that? Do you watch yourself?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

No, no, I'm not. I'm not my own. My own sort of crazy fan. And I don't mean that in a sort of. It's only vanity that does that. It is. That could be an incredibly useful thing to do. But I'm not quite.

[Jason Bateman]

For me, it is.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, I'm not a precision tool in that way. I kind of. No, I'm not going to compare myself to what I have done. It's always about where I'm at at the moment and that the need to see some reflection of what is going on. Is it registering? And also to have that conversation with the director going, no, no, I think. I think I know what you wanted and I was trying to do something else. Can we go again so I can try and give you something nearer what you want? I've seen now that that's not quite. That doesn't quite fit it and put the character and the movement and whatever it is. I mean, it's a really hard thing to generalize about because I guess I've been stretched like gum in all sorts of directions as an actor, so I can't really be specific. Certain things, like I think Power of the Dog. I never. I don't think I ever watched a playback on that because I just. I knew I was in and either it was shit or it was happening and I just had to just be that guy anyway, so kind of going around as Phil Burbank going, can I see the playback? You know, being an asshole about it. I didn't really want to have that interaction with crew and I wanted to have the arrogance of the character.

[Jason Bateman]

So you strike me as somebody who's skilled enough, talented enough and touch with yourself enough to really be able to direct yourself to a certain extent and know whether it's good or bad. How much do you defer to a director? You mentioned, you know, well, I know what you want. Let me do another one to see if I can do what you. Will you shape a performance for a director? Will you do what a director wants you to do? Or what is your opinion on that? Like whose character is.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, look, I think I've been very, very lucky with the caliber of director. Well, thank you for what you just said, first of all. But I also think it is about how lucky I've been with the caliber of director. You know, I form trust with that person and so therefore can filter my own inner sense of whether I was shit or good, bad or indifferent and match it to their honesty about it. The best directors as well, often give you a prompt that turns everything around 180 degrees. And it's not that they've rejected what you've done or didn't like it. They just want to see something different. That's what's, that's what excites me is just trying to jump through a different hoop in a way.

[Sean Hayes]

Do you, do you remember the first time as you were coming up and, you know, after you kind of got your sea legs about you and acting, your first gigs, do you remember the first time when you took a real big swing and you're like, oh, God, this is something I never imagined I could do. And it scares the shit out of.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Me, I think a little bit on every job, but to one degree or another, that's a really good question, Shaun.

[Jason Bateman]

You do take great swings and you never clank it. You always hit the ball hard. It's really admirable. You always feel like you're in great hands as an audience member when you're watching me.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Oh, thank you.

[Jason Bateman]

Truly.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

That's a huge compliment coming from you guys. Thank you.

[Jason Bateman]

No, it's, it's, well, this drama or comedy, it's, it's pretty impressive.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Thank you. Well, I, I, I guess the, the bottom line is there's no sort of secret sauce to it. I feel, yeah, I, I feel excited when I'm taking a big swing. When did I first feel that sense of, oh, I'm not sure I know. Is that what, that, that, Sorry, no, go. Well, it was, I was just gonna say it was one of those reactions where I've got the job. And then I thought, oh, my God, how am I going to do that?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

And that was, that was playing Stephen Hawking in a television drama about his life, which sort of compared to Eddie's, took it up to, you know, he was walking with a stick and the speech was very impaired. Still married to Jane Hawking. So it was a very, it was one slice of his life, his extraordinary life. And yeah, the thrill, the elation of that and then going, oh, my God, I've just convinced people that I can do this. I don't think I can. You know, I was, I was immediately terrified after the 10 seconds of elation. Right. So I guess that was the first moment I thought, well, this is kind of a big swing. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

But was there, what was that first, what was that first, that first moment where you. So I, I, I totally get that and relate to that. But then the, the moment.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

But you, I think you're, I think Sean's question was more about. You were talking about choices. I mean, within the podcast he was talking about.

[Will Arnett]

No, no, he was talking about choices. But, but, but when do you feel comfortable? When was that first time you felt, Forget Sean's question. He's. When was that first time that you felt that you felt comfortable in a performance where you, because you know, there's that thing when you're a young actor and you go in and you're just, sometimes you're like, I don't want to up. Or you're just kind of, you're nervous and blah, blah. And then what's that first moment you.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Felt like rather than going, oh, hell.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, you hit a groove, you felt tight, you got it, you know. Do you remember that job?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

No, I think that was what Sean was saying, oh, I'm back in. You're back in. No, I do think that's what you meant. I think, I don't know. It's so hard, it's so hard to be specific about this sort of thing. Fuck. I don't know. I'm always saying to acting students that I feel you can have something very theatrical in a close up as much as you can have something very myopically focused and close up on the stage. I think the magnification of her performance is really to do. If something is too big, it means often it's wrong. It doesn't mean that the scale of it is. What am I trying to say? I don't know. Some big choices I made where I thought, I'm just doing this and I think it's right. I mean, Patrick Melrose would probably be one because I've partied. But that guy was other level. And I think the choices I made with him were pretty committed. And I, you know, because I was in a very sober state doing this crazy different levels of inebriated dance work. I kind of just, I just really committed to it. And it's those things where you go, I, this could, you know, I didn't, I don't even remember thinking, this could be silly. I actually remember thinking, well, that's quite fun. Yeah, maybe I should try Quaaludes. And No, I'm joking. I just had a commitment to it that meant it felt like I was on the ride. But also thinking, I hope this actually works. I think we have that a lot, don't we, when we're having a good time doing something as well, going, okay, this feels great and everyone here is enjoying it and we're all. But is anyone gonna watch it or think the same or you're right.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. People that aren't obligated to say, hey, great job. Yeah, you're fully relian on a biased audience and it's a little bit scary.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

And I think to your point about directors, you can come out of an experience and go, oh shit, I really do need to trust my voice and my instincts a little bit more sometimes because I think I could have got that better. I have had moments watching things soon after their completion and gone, ah, yeah, I should have dug my heels about that take. Or the best choice.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, but yeah, but you were not foolish to count on the taste of people like Sam Mendes or Thomas Alfredson.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

But like I said, some amazing directors.

[Jason Bateman]

So yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

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[Jason Bateman]

Speaking of Tinker Tailor, Soldier Spy, what about the fear of acting with those incredible actors around you, like was. Was that nerve wracking? I mean, you were obviously very, very well established by the time you did that film, but still you can't shake the little guy who was at Lambda, you know, like you're sitting there with these titans. Was that frightening?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, I mean, yeah. The first time I met, I mean, Mark, I'd done a little thing with Mark Strong. So I knew him. Colin was just absurdly wonderful and lovely and nice and goofy and impressionable as well as being ridiculously smart and talented and devilishly handsome and all the rest. He is. And then Gary, when I first met Gary, he walked around the corner of. It was either Working Titles Office or it was somewhere uninspiring. And it wasn't where I was expecting to meet him. And I'd gone in for a costume fitting and there he was and he just got me and he just stopped in the corridor and he looked at me, looked me up and down, went, oh, hello. Oh, hello. Hi. And just. Was just sort of just a mess in front of him. Yeah, he was very, very cool. He was very cool. And I thought, oh, fucking hell. And I felt this horrible ill comfort of like, I've gotta please this guy. I've gotta somehow impress him and make sure he thinks he's got other. You know, it literally felt like he was sizing me, like, is this really the guy I want to spend my time with is Peter Grillam? I'm not sure really. You know, there was that very kind.

[Jason Bateman]

Of like, ah, good impression.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

It took a little while and then I realized he was, he was the one who was terrified. He was terrified.

[Jason Bateman]

Really.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I don't, I mean, I think I can say this. Maybe his lawyers will write to me afterwards, I don't know. But you know, he was frightened. He didn't, he really thought he wasn't capable of doing it. He couldn't push this iconic Alec Guinness performance away. He was worried that he hadn't felt found him. And you know, it became the most amazing friendship out of that. But, you know, yeah, it, that that man was frightened and that, that, that to have that vulnerability as an actor and to see that in someone as capable and extraordinary as him, I was like, hooray. Okay, we're all the same. Really. We're all the same.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. But I mean, like, I like, like people feel that way about you. I think, you know, your body of work is, it's unmatched. Like, I mean, Star Trek Imitation Game. I can name them because I've seen them and I love them and Dr. Strange and August Osage county and the fucking Smaug. I mean, you're fucking Smaug and the Hobbit. I mean, that's crazy to me. To me.

[Jason Bateman]

And on and on and on. And recently, the Roses, I thought was just like. That was a total minefield. You could have blown yourself up, you and Olivia, at any moment. In that. It was truly impressive.

[Sean Hayes]

So people feel that way about you too, I think. Where.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, for sure.

[Sean Hayes]

Where you just want to just, you know, if you get a job with.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Benedict Cumberbatch, well, know that I'm shitting it. Know that I don't know what I'm doing on a first day. Know that I doubt myself that. You know, it's that thing, isn't it? And I don't know if you guys have it, but that first day on set where you go, you know, here's the crew. They're all watching their actors. And directly, you think, maybe they'll give me a second day. But these guys are just. They're going, it's Roman. Right away. And of course it isn't, because the focus puller, it. The clapper, you know, everyone is doing their job for the first time as a unit, putting stuff on film and get over your own. Your own.

[Jason Bateman]

We all have to figure out how to wash ourselves, right, Sean?

[Sean Hayes]

That's right. But I do. I do want to just having done a show there in London.

[Will Arnett]

Do you do the same for the back? Show me how you do.

[Jason Bateman]

Show me how you do. How do you wash your own smaller back. Back.

[Will Arnett]

Let me just see that.

[Jason Bateman]

Do you need an extender for the loofah? Because we've got one. Scotty.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, wow.

[Sean Hayes]

It's a selfie stick.

[Will Arnett]

How old are you?

[Sean Hayes]

You're so.

[Will Arnett]

You're so nimble.

[Jason Bateman]

Flex.

[Sean Hayes]

No, but for in theater and in theater in London, they have this thing called. And the Barbie. Can they. They have this cherished notes. And I've never heard of this until I went over there and I'm like. And I had to ask people in the cast, I'm like, what's cherish? Cherish notes. Well, we meet every single day, every day before the show on stage and just check in with each other. I'm like, can't we do that just backstage in the hall where the dressing rooms are? Yeah, or just in the E. That's what I said. Can we just do an email or like a fax or something and. No, you have to go on stage. And every day we would go on stage and the stage manager Would be, like, great. I don't have anything. Does anybody have anything to like? No. Why are we standing here?

[Will Arnett]

I like that. I like that it keeps everybody accountable and reminds you of where you are.

[Sean Hayes]

Yes, I know, but. Okay. What do you think about that, Benedict?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I think it's quite lovely. I think it's quite nice. I think it's quite nice as long as, you know, as long as you're not spending too much time doing that and as long as there's a moderator. I think what the dangerous thing is, especially in theater, long run, like, there's gonna be those moments where something's going a bit strange in a scene or someone's, you know, and then the lines of communication can get very, very fuzzy unless you go through the appropriate channels, which is obviously the assistant director or the director and say, I'm having a bit of a problem with the scene. I'm not sure it's quite working, whatever it is. If you go in there in the Cherish scenario and go to another actor, you know that bit where you're doing that bit, that means I can't do my bit the way I want to do it. But that to me is like, oh, here we go. But that's not what cherishing is. Cherishing sounds much nicer than that, But I guess if it becomes it. Cherishing is just a positive feedback loop, isn't it? That's what that is. And just looking after each other.

[Sean Hayes]

But it was nice to see everybody.

[Jason Bateman]

But if somebody brings up something, is there, oh, nice.

[Will Arnett]

Try to save it now. I mean, everybody in your cast is already. They feel like fucking this guy. Just barely put up with it.

[Sean Hayes]

No, I loved everybody there.

[Jason Bateman]

Is there enough time to iron out whatever problem somebody might bring?

[Sean Hayes]

Well, that's what. That's what it was. That's what it was. It was. It was. I wasn't used to it here, like in the States. States where you. You kind of. It kind of interrupts your. What you've created for yourself, your rhythm and your routine. In the States. And so now I was like, oh, I have to stop that. Go up five flights of stairs or down five flights of stairs. Oh, my God. I know. It's terrible.

[Will Arnett]

These monsters. This gets worse. Five flights of stairs.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

I mean, and you could barely. We know that you can't swim because you can barely catch your breath.

[Jason Bateman]

And then at the top of this stairs, you had to say something nice about this.

[Sean Hayes]

I went down the stairs like this.

[Will Arnett]

It's just a tub of water, and just get in it. Let Me watch you dip in.

[Jason Bateman]

Just dip in. Is it still hot?

[Will Arnett]

Just dip in it. Let me see.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, I want to. Well, I want to talk about. Well, Shani, do you want to get it in? Sean, would you want to talk more about Doctor Strange or Star Trek? Because I'd love to get into 1917 when you're done.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, No, I mean, look, are you.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Big into fantasy, Sean? Is that your fancy?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I'm a huge sci fi nerd and fan.

[Will Arnett]

Is he into. Is he into fantasy? You should, you should see what he's wearing for bottoms right now.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Lizard suit from the waist down.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, yeah. So Sean, Sean loves.

[Sean Hayes]

I love Star Trek and the movies.

[Will Arnett]

You love Marvel?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I like Marvel. Scotty loves Marvel. I like Marvel a lot. But I love. I love the Star Trek movies. I wasn't a huge fan of this, of the television series, like Scott, this guy's massive Star Trek fan. But, but seeing you on screen as that character, that iconic character, and I don't know, you have this thing about you where you, you don't. You're so fucking commanding.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. You're magnetic.

[Sean Hayes]

Like you don't have to do a lot and you're just. You, you're electric right through the resonance.

[Will Arnett]

Sean, do you want Scotty to come ask a question? By the way, if Scotty comes on camera and he's covered in French's mustard oven.

[Sean Hayes]

Wait, let me see if he's got.

[Jason Bateman]

A question with Spock ears. Mustard, Spock ears.

[Sean Hayes]

But also my massive, massive Lord of the Rings the Hobbit fan. Like, huge. I've seen him a million times in those movies. And to see, right, when you popped on Today as a guest, I'm like, oh, my God, that's so. It's such an. Another iconic character, that Smaug the Dragon, that your voice is synonymous with this legendary thing.

[Will Arnett]

And Sean, I will say this Benedict before you, I've asked people who've done these kinds of things before. You've done a bunch of these different films, you know, sort of franchises, if you will, but they came out of very well established, you know, sort of ideas that have a very well established fan base. And there's a sense of. Do you ever feel a sense of responsibility to those legions of fans who existed before you kind of stepped into these roles?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, huge. Very big. And then you have to forget about them. You have to. You have to make a commitment to something that can't please everyone. So that's immediately. If you play the aggregate game, you're dead in the water to Anything original or alive or daring or that asks questions or is worth actually seeing the 78th or whatever I was version of Sherlock Holmes. You know, you have to just go, no, it's gonna be all right. And that. It's not arrogance, it's just you can't have that much head traffic. You just have to focus on doing the job. And so, yeah, it's a take on something.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, I forgot about Sherlock too.

[Sean Hayes]

Which is like fantastic.

[Will Arnett]

I loved Sherlock. You were so great in Sherlock.

[Jason Bateman]

I mean, the list goes on and on. This guy, I mean, are you even 35 yet?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

More than that.

[Jason Bateman]

His resume is stunning. You know, it's. Anyway, we're already over time. I've got one last question though, because it's something to bring you back down to earth because you're so goddamn good at what you do. What is the. What. What is the one thing you'd love to be half as good at as you are as an actor? Is there something that.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Surfing.

[Jason Bateman]

Surfing.

[Sean Hayes]

Surfing. Oh, wow, really?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Or speaking any foreign language.

[Jason Bateman]

So you try, but you're not great.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Exactly that. I'm. I'm. I started in my 40s and I'm near the end of my 40s and I'm still feeling like I'm starting. But it. And I had a shoulder operation last year, so I haven't done it at all for about. Actually, no, this year for about six months, but I lost.

[Will Arnett]

I love it.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I love it.

[Jason Bateman]

Where did you start it?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Weirdly enough, in New Zealand when we were doing Power of the Dog, we got shut down because of lockdown and we had the decision to make to stay, which by then, because I had two octogenarian parents, one of whom's a severe asthmatic, staying with us, as it would happen, my mum and dad and our three very young children at that point, Sophie and a nanny, and we just thought, okay, we're going to stay. And it was a bit scary to begin with, but utterly magical and extraordinary. One of the best places on earth to be, as it turned out. And there was a little left hand brake in Te Awanga in Hawke's Bay. Big shout out to Tiawangans. Anyway, the point is, it was where I learned, and I'm goofy, actually. So left break's not as good as a right, but I quite like. No, that's wrong. It must have been a right break. Yeah, because I'm right foot forward, so you're not. You're supposed to be facing the wave rather than facing the shore. But so I learned really on the wrong wave. But loved it. Every now and again you get a left and I just. I really fell in love with it. I fell in love with the view of the coastline. I fell in love with that connection to the ocean, that sense of how present you are. And the community as well. This extraordinary group of people where all is kind of forgiven as long as you don't take. Take their wave. And, you know, the drug dealer would be there and the head of the local police force would be there. Yeah. It was just all of human life was around you. Right. And I can't explain to anyone hasn't surfed what that feeling is of nature giving you a ride from somewhere out in the ocean towards the shoreline. It's just magic when it works.

[Sean Hayes]

And when you get out of the ocean, how do you clean yourself? I'm kidding.

[Jason Bateman]

What happened.

[Sean Hayes]

What happened to your shoulder, by the way? You got a shoulder surgery?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I. I was so boring. It's so, so 49. I'm. Yeah, 50 this year, but it was 49 when it happened. I bet. Well, it's a long time of ill use and Done a lot of surfing in very bad conditions and overdoing it. I'm probably lifting stuff in the wrong way over the years. Not. Not a particular. But I basically had a torn rotator cuff and then also a frozen shoulder on top of it, which I've heard into do the repair to the rotator, which was a complete tear. And I lived with chronic pain for about a year and a half, not really realizing that you didn't have to. And I kept on doing physio and being told, no, it'll heal you. Just give it time. I'm a patient guy and I'm doing everything you're telling me to do. And I'm still having sleepless nights, getting up like three, four times in the night because I'd rolled over onto it and it's suddenly just.

[Sean Hayes]

But it's better now.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

It's. Yeah, it's great. It's great.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

I love that.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Oh, look at that. Look at that.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, before we let you go, we need to know about. About the thing with feathers, because this. So this, this is a new project, you guys.

[Will Arnett]

You're going to.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Jesus, if I hadn't said anything about that film. I'm so sad.

[Jason Bateman]

No, it's my, my.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

That's not how to clean yourself. It's very much not the thing with feathers. I mean, I suppose you could use that to clean yourself.

[Jason Bateman]

It's a prequel to how do you clean yourself. Yeah. So this, this I Called a duster. The. I've. I've only seen the trailer, which is. Is. Looks magical to say.

[Sean Hayes]

What is it called the least.

[Jason Bateman]

The Thing with Feathers.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay.

[Jason Bateman]

I'm not gonna ask you to describe because I think that's always frustrating, but it seems like you're dealing with loss, but you're dealing with it in a very magical, fantastical way. And it looks like the filmmaking is exquisite and your performance looks mind blowing. Again, was it something that you love doing very much?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

And it's something that I'm very proud of. We. I produced it as well, so.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, wow.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

It's one of those projects that wouldn't really have got off the ground. Well, I would have probably got off the ground, but, you know, it took a lot of effort and it was 10 years in the making. We only came on board in the last sort of year. And a bit of it, we being the production company, Sonny March, Adam Ackland, Leah Clark and myself. And it was an approach for me to act as this dad, this man who. Cause you were so kind in telling me it could be a real bore to describe it. I'm gonna describe it very, very briefly, but it's a man who suffers a very sudden bereavement and he loses his wife and has to bring up his two children as a widow. And it's about their first year as a family. And it's based on an amazing, amazing novella called Grief Is the Thing with Feathers.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, wow.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Which is a misquote of the famous Emily Dickinson line. Love Is the Thing with Feathers by Max Porter, who is just a titan of a heroic human being in actual physical stature and in talent. He's a wonderfully kind, brilliant mind, and he's created a space where male grief is examined in the most unimaginably crazy and imaginative way. It's about dealing with it as an acceptance of something you live with. And it comes alive. It comes alive in the form of the dad's work, which from the book, maybe the film, but certainly the book more or less is hinted at as being a memory of the boys, of what that time was like. And you kind of learn that as the story unfolds. But it's a crow. It's a crow that comes fully to life as this horrific entity that's both Mary Poppins to the children and amanuensis a hero. An absolute nightmare, a ferocious noise in the head, a tormentor and an ally against despair. And it's a huge homage to the literature it was born out of the poetry of Ted Hughes. Now I've. He was an academic in the book. In our version, he's a, he's an illustrator. And his illustration comes to life basically and lives, torments, and is accepted by this family, grieving the loss of their mother and wife.

[Sean Hayes]

Wow, wow, wow. I can't, can't wait to check it out.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

That's a punchy hour and 40 minutes. And it's. Yeah, I don't know, I just.

[Jason Bateman]

What I was taken with, with the trailer is, you know, you all can see there's. It seems to be done in such a sophisticated, cinematic, tasteful way. Like, you know, that that can go wrong real quick if you go, oh, so there's going to be a crow that he's got to talk to that's like, how does that look and how is it framed? What's the, you know, it just looks so tasteful and special. So. Congratulations.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Well, thank you. I mean, that's mainly down to Dylan Southern, who adapted the book and directed it. He's a pop documentarian by trade, as in that's what he's done up until this point. This is the first fictional narrative drama.

[Jason Bateman]

And good for you for getting behind him.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Well, yeah, I mean, that's one of the things we do at Sonny March. We want to promote and platform voices that are coming out of the stocks who are the first and very often female led talent, but also in this case, someone who hasn't originated their work in this medium. And he's spectacular. He's a real cynias, he's a real cultural nerd. So the references are thick and fast. There's Kubrick, there's Spielberg, there's Hitchcock, there's all sorts. There's even a bit of Jane Campion in there, weirdly. But it is just, it's a rich tapestry of imagination and minds coming undone reflected through a cinematic idea of how that would happen in the culture of these people. People. So it's, it's the father's imagination and, and that north London, 40 something maleness, which I know very well. They're set in South London, but big deal, not much difference. And it's just, it's, it's, it was, it was a crazy ride to go on very short shoots after 10 years of, of, of creating it and getting it made.

[Will Arnett]

So I'm really proud. Benedict, before we let you go, I have to ask you about something that I think that you have been attached to, to either be in or to produce or to do something with for a long time. And it's one of My favorite books of all time. It's an absolute mind blower for those who haven't written, which is, you know what I'm about to say?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Rogue mail.

[Will Arnett]

Rogue mail. Oh, dude.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

It's a winner, isn't it? It's so cool.

[Will Arnett]

It is such a game changer of a novel. Rogue mail written in 1939.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah. It's the original fugitive novel. It's the original and, you know, a huge inspiration for Ian Flemmin Bond and. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

And it's.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

And it's so prescient to what's going on in our times not to allude to that too much.

[Will Arnett]

So prescient. Exactly. It really is.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

You know, when we first sat down trying to talk about this. Is this a bit of a game? It's not about AI. No, but it is. Is this a bit of a kind of guy's film? And then the longer we were exploring the themes of it and the motivation behind the guy's actions and the outcome and how he's turned on by his own side as well as obviously the side he's tried to take down, it is. It's fascinating how it plays into a political spectrum of what's going on in the world. Now. I don't want to say too much about it because people should read the book. And yet we will make it. You will make it, definitely. Oh, yeah, yeah. We don't got a filming date yet, but it's. It's something we're trying to slate for next year, although there are other huge commitments involving cloaks floating about.

[Will Arnett]

So I'll be the first guy to watch it. I'll be the first one there.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

That is.

[Will Arnett]

I can't wait.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Me too.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I know.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I need to get going on that.

[Sean Hayes]

That's good.

[Will Arnett]

Well, we.

[Jason Bateman]

We owe you 12 minutes now back into your life. Just.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I think I owe you a lot more because I was very late on.

[Jason Bateman]

So you owe me nothing to be such a pleasure.

[Sean Hayes]

Honor to have joy.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Benedict. Thank you. Likewise, guys.

[Sean Hayes]

Really cool to meet.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

To meet you all too. Thank you.

[Jason Bateman]

Hope to bump into you again soon. One day.

[Will Arnett]

Continued success, Benedict.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

You too. You too, Will. Sorry. I've got to say, Will, before we sign off, you were phenomenal. Is this thing on?

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, isn't it?

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

I asked Bradley because this. To give me a link because Searchlight wouldn't. Oh, it's not really ready for a link yet. And I went, fucking Bradley. I missed a screening of it in London. I can see it. You are so good. It's so tender and real and that Camera is. So I wanted to ask you about how you deal with. It's so close to you all the time when you're up at that mic. Like, was he shooting on a long lens at any point or was it really on stage with you getting in your eyeline? I mean, who it was. And yet you're utterly in it all the time. And it's so moving.

[Will Arnett]

It was all, it was all in a 40. The whole thing was shot. Everything was shot on a 40. The entire film on one, on one single lens. And he was. Yeah, Bradley was right there, you know, right up next to me. It was very tense. But thank you very much.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

It's brilliant work.

[Jason Bateman]

Great work.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

It's brilliant work. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that in.

[Jason Bateman]

It's really good. All right, well, you enjoy the rest of your night and, and thank you again for doing this.

[Will Arnett]

Bye bye. Benedict Cumberbatch.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Will. Thank you, Sean. See you.

[Sean Hayes]

Bye then.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Bye.

[Jason Bateman]

Bye.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Bye.

[Jason Bateman]

There he goes. Benedict Cumberbatch. I didn't get to. So much that went by.

[Will Arnett]

How could you? He's got a million credits.

[Jason Bateman]

I know, right?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. That was really cool. I mean, are you guys a Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan?

[Jason Bateman]

No, I'm, I, I, I, I've not seen.

[Will Arnett]

I enjoyed it.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. I love those movies.

[Jason Bateman]

So he played. He was a voice. Motion capture questions I have here, but I didn't get to them.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, but you could tell it's just.

[Jason Bateman]

A voice of a dragon. I hear from.

[Sean Hayes]

That is. That is correct.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

He.

[Sean Hayes]

But also you can tell just from talking to him, he's. This sounds really corny to say, but you could tell he's such a massive team player. You can say, you can tell he's not, you know, he's a very giving person. He's a very loving downright.

[Will Arnett]

You could smell his team spirit.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Nice. Smells like team. Team spirit. Spirit.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, I see.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

No, he's pretty. It's pretty cool how he's dances between the comedy, the drama, the big, the big Marvel stuff. And also like things like, like, I.

[Will Arnett]

Know, like intense like, like little sort of really cool niche films and then these massive box office hits.

[Jason Bateman]

Are you with them also?

[Will Arnett]

Are you with them? Them. They're now in. You can just jump in with them.

[Jason Bateman]

The listener Will's building on the. Clean yourself.

[Will Arnett]

Jump in there with them. And then you guys together.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, you can clean each other more easily. Reach the back.

[Will Arnett]

Just do that. Start there and get a button or a zipper. I asked before.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, My God.

[Benedict Cumberbatch]

But.

[Jason Bateman]

Hey, Will, was I with you on a plane when we ran into Benedict Cumberbatch?

[Will Arnett]

Oh, really?

[Jason Bateman]

Was I with you on a plane or was it was somebody else? Anyway, I ran into him on a plane once, and he was so fucking funny.

[Will Arnett]

I didn't run into him on a plane, I don't think, but I ran into him once. I didn't run into. I didn't say hi to him. He was at the Greenwich, and he was trying to repack a suitcase in the lobby. Oh, no. And I was like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna leave him alone.

[Jason Bateman]

You know, that's a way. I hate looking inside somebody's suitcase. You ever notice that?

[Sean Hayes]

Why?

[Jason Bateman]

Opens up a suitcase like there's stuff in there I don't need to see, don't want to see. Especially not. Not the suitcase on the way to the destination. It's the one coming back where all the dirty underwear is up on top and nothing's folded, and it's all just like. You just know if you got your face.

[Will Arnett]

I know. You are so crazy. You're so crazy about just regular life. You're so. By the way, my. My biggest luxury, the thing. The one big luxury that I love, that I really love treating myself to, is doing hotel, lunch, laundry.

[Jason Bateman]

Hotel.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, you just throw.

[Will Arnett]

You.

[Sean Hayes]

You give it. You put it in the bag and let them take it.

[Will Arnett]

People are like, oh, I'm not gonna do a hotel laundry. Give me $4 for my socks. I'm like, yeah, you know what? I'm gonna treat myself.

[Jason Bateman]

So you do that laundry before you leave the hotel so that when you get home and you unpack, it's already done.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. Depending. I mean, the last few. There might be a few items, but. But I'm not gonna, like, just deprive myself, you know what I mean?

[Jason Bateman]

So you. You don't go home with all your dirty laundry like the rest of us plebs and. And throw it in.

[Will Arnett]

I'll often do. The bulk of my stuff will be clean, you know?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Huh.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. I'm not jackassing a bunch of dirty clothes across.

[Jason Bateman]

Why would you. Yeah. When you got all that money to burn, right?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

You know, like an extra 12 bucks.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, is it for a T shirt? Nice.

[Sean Hayes]

But listen, all those.

[Jason Bateman]

Here he comes. Did I. Did I meet. Did I meet Benedict Cumberbatch on an airplane, like a jet plane? Or was it a B plane?

[Will Arnett]

A biplane, but we'll allow it by. Smart. Smart.

[Jason Bateman]

Less.

[Will Arnett]

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[Sean Hayes]

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