"Charli xcx"

Summary

SmartLess Podcast – Charli XCX Episode Summary

Podcast: SmartLess
Hosts: Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Will Arnett
Guest: Charli XCX
Date: February 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features British singer-songwriter Charli XCX, whose provocative persona, innovative pop, and viral “BRAT” era have made her one of the most influential pop artists of the last decade. The hosts dig into Charli’s rise from illegal warehouse raves with her parents to songwriting for global superstars and becoming an unexpected cultural flashpoint during the 2024 US presidential election. They also explore her creative process, experiences with synesthesia, transition into film, and her unique approach to fame.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Charli XCX’s “The Moment” Mockumentary and Acting Career

• [10:03] Charli reveals she is in LA promoting her first film, a satirical mockumentary called The Moment, about her first arena tour, produced by A24.
• [11:17] On playing a version of herself:

  “My character is a real bitch, and everybody already thinks that I am one, so that’s totally fine.” (Charli XCX, 11:11)

• The film draws inspiration from This is Spinal Tap, blending scripted and improvised scenes, with comedians like Kate Berlant and Jamie Demetriou.
• Charli co-created the concept:

  “I was more interested in subverting the form and taking that traditional medium… and flipping it into something more aligned with the work that I generally do.” (Charli XCX, 12:13)

Owning the "BRAT" Era & Influence on Pop Culture

• [15:30] The hosts recount Charli’s tweet “Kamala is Brat,” which inspired Kamala Harris’s campaign to adopt the album’s lime-green color and “BRAT” language.

  “My album was an album where the cover’s green, right? Lime green, with the word ‘brat’ on it. And that was something adopted by a lot of people on the internet, eventually by Kamala after I did that tweet.” (Charli XCX, 16:21)

• The word "brat" takes on new context as empowerment and attitude, driven by her work.

Early Life, Cultural Identity, and Family Support

• [18:27] Charli discusses growing up mixed-race in Essex:

  “I would go and see my mom’s side of the family… I would always feel more white… At school, I would often feel more brown… My friends’ only reference for an Indian person was Apu from The Simpsons… I felt a slight displacement." (Charli XCX, 18:54)

• [27:26] Her parents were unusually supportive, attending illegal warehouse raves where she performed as a teenager:

  “At the time, I was like, this is so lame, like they’re cramping my style. But, you know, they were obviously just very, very supportive.” (Charli XCX, 27:26)

• Anecdote: Someone tried to sell her mom drugs at a rave, which she mistook for “mdf” (wood paneling), not MDMA. (30:44)

Creative Process: Writing, Synesthesia, and Collaboration

• [39:15] Charli explains synesthesia (perceiving music as colors):

  “I would say to producers, ‘Can you make this sound more blue, or more purple?’ I just knew it needed to sound purple.” (Charli XCX, 40:10)

• [43:34] On enunciation in vocals:

  “I don’t really care about enunciation, to be honest. I’d love to hear your interpretation of what I’m saying…” (Charli XCX, 43:41)

• [44:23] How she decides when a song is done and the value of spontaneity:

  “There’s a real charm in spontaneity… the first idea is often way more unique than when I’ve sat down and really thought about it for a while.” (Charli XCX, 44:36)

• [50:22] Some hits are written in 30 minutes, like "I Love It":

  “We have this saying… you have to dare to suck. Sometimes in daring to suck, the most, like, universal genius idea comes out when you’re just being stupid.” (Charli XCX, 50:22)

Songwriting for Other Artists & The Business of Pop

• She’s written for Selena Gomez, Iggy Azalea, Camila Cabello, Shawn Mendes, among others.

  “Sometimes… I’ll write a song and I’ll be like, oh, I thought this was for me. But actually, I don’t think I should sing like a sort of flamenco-sounding pop song…” (Charli XCX, 35:05)

• Dismantles stigma that singers must write their own music:

  “There are different types of artistry, like a great performer, a great writer, a great entertainer… It’s not less than.” (Charli XCX, 36:05)

Personal Life: Only Child, Children, Relationships

• [21:48] Charli is open about not wanting kids, echoing Sean’s own thoughts:

  “I actually don’t really want to have kids. You know, who knows? That could change.” (Charli XCX, 21:48)

• Marriage: Reveals she’s married to George Daniel of The 1975. (64:18)

Navigating Fame, Touring, and the Industry

• [32:54] Her first big hits were often as a writer or feature, allowing her to "fly under the radar" for years before her own solo breakout.
• [63:30] Admits to hating touring:

  “I hate touring and I really do it in quite a specific way... My husband’s in a band and they tour so much—I just can’t.” (Charli XCX, 63:30)

• The industry’s "no one knows what they're doing" attitude:

  "If you knew then what you know now—just how no one really knows what they’re doing." (Charli XCX, 55:38)

Fan Encounters & Stage Memories

• Most memorable gifts from fans: a douche (to sign) and a necklace containing someone’s mother’s ashes. (66:51)
• Onstage “blooper” stories are mostly about these fan experiences.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Commitment:

  “It’s commitment to the bit… If I tell you it’s the shit, and it’s so good, even if you think it’s dumb—that’s the point.” (Charli XCX, 51:16)

• On Making Art:

  “There’s this idea that making good art has to be hard… sometimes I disagree with that… sometimes you just have to fucking paint it.” (Charli XCX, 51:57)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:39 — Charli’s introduction; illegal raves origin story
• 10:03 — Discussing The Moment mockumentary
• 15:30 — The “BRAT” phenomenon and Kamala Harris campaign
• 18:27 — Mixed-race childhood in Essex
• 27:26 — Her parents’ involvement in her early music career
• 32:54 — Flying under the radar as a songwriter/feature
• 39:15 — Synesthesia and color in music
• 44:23 — Creative process & knowing when a song is finished
• 50:22 — Writing “I Love It” in 30 minutes; “Dare to suck” mantra
• 55:38 — Biggest music industry surprise
• 63:30 — Honest feelings about touring & marriage to George Daniel
• 66:51 — Most memorable fan gifts (douche, ashes necklace)

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Memorable Moments

• Will Arnett’s Tech Struggle: Will is notably missing from much of the first half (29:12), leading to laughter; “Listener, we've gone 17 minutes without Will Arnett. And it’s really been great, hasn’t it?” (28:59)
• Charli on not listening to her parents’ music advice:

  “Even if it was the most amazing idea ever, I think, purely because he was my dad, he was always gonna get the no.” (Charli XCX, 28:08)

• Charli’s nonchalant pop culture humility: “It was only a cultural phenomenon.” (15:53)

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Closing Reflections

The hosts praise Charli’s authenticity, wit, and risk-taking creative ethos:

“She is something else… You know, if you believe in that sort of old soul thing, some people have been around a few times. She’s not polished—she’s so real and authentic.” (Will Arnett, 70:06)

Sean Hayes sums up why she stands out:

“No filter. This is unapologetic. I love her.” (Sean Hayes, 70:20)

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Final Notes

The episode is packed with playful banter but never loses focus on Charli’s creative vision and unique career trajectory. It’s an honest, humorous, and sharply insightful conversation about the reality of pop stardom, creativity, and remaining true to oneself.

Recommended for:

• Fans of Charli XCX & modern pop
• Listeners interested in creative process and cultural influence
• Anyone who enjoys authentic, unscripted conversation

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(For full details, refer to timestamps for each segment listed above.)

Transcript

[Jason Bateman]

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[Sean Hayes]

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[Jason Bateman]

Welcome to smart.

[Will Arnett]

Look at your little jay. Look at little flare you got going. You lit that thing.

[Jason Bateman]

I mean, that's, that's what we get for doing this at four.

[Will Arnett]

No, it's nice though. It's giving it a nice kind of vibe. Like you got.

[Jason Bateman]

You like the kick? All right.

[Will Arnett]

You got a little California vibe. It's real. It's real.

[Sean Hayes]

Little battle.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, it's just nice it's given a real kind of.

[Jason Bateman]

It's a little bit too much.

[Sean Hayes]

How do you feel about the afternoon record?

[Jason Bateman]

I'm not a fan. Yeah, I'm, I'm. I'm done with the day. A couple hours ago.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

That's what, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2.

[Will Arnett]

That's for the whole day, right? I'm just going to quote you.

[Jason Bateman]

It is, it is a full. It is a work day today for sure. I will admit. I'll get there. I'll get. I'll get it up. I'll get it up now. But Shauna, you're even worse off. You're in New York. So you're. This is, this is. You're well past dinner time. It's seven there.

[Sean Hayes]

I know it's seven o'.

[Jason Bateman]

Clock.

[Sean Hayes]

I have just been going two and

[Will Arnett]

a half hours past dinner time. Right.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, no, I, I ate when I came home.

[Will Arnett]

Did you rehearse today?

[Sean Hayes]

I did for five hours. Boy.

[Will Arnett]

How'd it go?

[Sean Hayes]

It's. It's tough. I mean, it's like, you know when you have to concentrate so hard and so specific for so long.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

I don't know, like on.

[Will Arnett]

It's a different kind of tired.

[Sean Hayes]

It is. It's brain tired.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. You can't take a moment off. Right. Because listener. He's talking about. He's doing a one man show.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, gosh. There we go.

[Will Arnett]

What's the, what's the show called, Johnny?

[Sean Hayes]

It's called the Unknown. But we, we, we, we don't. We don. Okay, it's called the Unknown.

[Jason Bateman]

How is it going to be? It's unknown.

[Sean Hayes]

It's kind of right there. It's right for, you know, what's the Shawnee.

[Will Arnett]

What's the name of the theater too? So we can just get it.

[Sean Hayes]

It's called, it's called the Studio Sea View and it opens January 31st.

[Will Arnett]

Studio Sea View, January 31st, gang. Get down there.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, you know, the whole like previews and opening. We talked about that before. It's like, if you're selling tickets and people are coming, why do we do the previews and just. It opens January 31st. That's what I say.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Like you know people, right?

[Jason Bateman]

Because you do sell tickets.

[Will Arnett]

What's the thing with the preview? Yeah, what's the thing with the previews? What do you think?

[Sean Hayes]

You know, it's to work out the kinks before it's officially open. But it's like, well, then don't sell tickets. But we are. And so just do rehearsal.

[Will Arnett]

Call it rehearsal and don't have it.

[Sean Hayes]

Like, yeah, we're rehearsing for two weeks before we.

[Jason Bateman]

You know, like, you get a couple weeks of mulligans. Like, don't you dare write a review about this.

[Will Arnett]

Shooting a bunch of scenes and then you release a rough cut and go. It's just the rough cut. But it's going to theaters.

[Sean Hayes]

That's right. And then. But. But, Jason, that's when the. That's when the critics come. Are during previews.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

So it's like, what? I don't understand. It's all back.

[Will Arnett]

So they get the reviews out on opening night.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, while we're working through our shit, that's when they review the show. Like, I don't know. It doesn't make any sense.

[Jason Bateman]

Why don't you charge half price for previews?

[Sean Hayes]

I'll mention that to the producers.

[Will Arnett]

Sean, can I ask you a question?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Do you have the balls to change the system?

[Sean Hayes]

Let's play.

[Will Arnett]

Let's. Let's write a play called Change. And it's about changing theater system.

[Jason Bateman]

Charging half price for previews.

[Will Arnett]

Three full acts, and let's do four months of previews in one week.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Bateman]

That'd be hilarious. Now, Sean, you're. You're. You're. You're finding your brain's working okay, as far as remembering all these lines.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, you know, that's the scariest part. I have found that I've been told in this rehearsal process that some people have ear. What is it called?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, ear wigs.

[Sean Hayes]

Earwigs or whatever. And then.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, yeah, we had a. We did a. We had a record the other day.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, that's right.

[Jason Bateman]

Now, I wonder. He. I couldn't understand. Was he. Was he implying that the earwig is. Is reading him his lines all the time or just when he goes up,

[Will Arnett]

someone will whisper, he said for backup. But I do. I know somebody who did an entire run on Broadway with.

[Sean Hayes]

There's a few people. Yeah. And anyway, so. So I also talk about.

[Jason Bateman]

What are you going to do? What's. What's going to be your safety net?

[Sean Hayes]

I'm just going to wing it. Like, I don't know. You're not. But you know what?

[Will Arnett]

Here's what it is. J.B. he's been. What? He's being very modest. He's been working on it for months. Eight hours. L. Eight hours a day?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, for like three.

[Will Arnett]

Non. Stop. He is so diligent about that, you know? Sh. He's. He's diligent, if nothing else. No, you are.

[Jason Bateman]

Now, this is the part that I don't get, though, Shawnee, because you're so. You're so beautifully relaxed about your days, your weeks, your years, your months.

[Sean Hayes]

You.

[Jason Bateman]

You know, you don't. You don't. You're. You're fine. You're fine. Relaxing.

[Sean Hayes]

And you don't think I'm a basket case.

[Jason Bateman]

Of course, you tend to say no to a lot of things. Okay. Even more than me. Yeah. Yet you say yes to not only a one man show, but another play on the back end of the last thing. And you said you would never be in a show. Do you remember?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. Do you remember when he was in London? Remember he was in London and he was like, I'm not doing this again. What am I doing? I remember talking to you like, why am I doing this? I'm so tired. I'm not gonna do this. We were on the show, you were in London. And then a month later you're like, I'm gonna go to New York and do this one, man. I'm gonna do something.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, because I. Because if you. If you read the script, you'd be like, well, you're an idiot if you don't do this, because there's never been anything like it. I mean, it's the most incredible thing I've ever read. I mean, it's incredible.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, all right. All right. Well, good.

[Will Arnett]

He's inspired. He's inspired.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I like the challenge.

[Will Arnett]

That's good.

[Sean Hayes]

But, you know, then.

[Will Arnett]

Then it's nice that you're still inspired.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Jason Bateman]

So.

[Sean Hayes]

But I talk about changing the system. On stage is the only, like, theater's the only place you don't have a stand in. So TV and film actors have stand ins while they light the scenes so they can go rehearse or whatever. But theater, I was like, why don't you have a stand in during tech week? Why don't I have to stand there for 14 hours? Well, you like the show. I'm tired. Anyway, moving on.

[Jason Bateman]

You don't like hitting your marks and setting the lights and all that stuff,

[Will Arnett]

but maybe that process will help cement it.

[Sean Hayes]

That's what it's there for, I'm sure.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Guys, my guest today is one of those people who was just kind of born cool, right? Like, came out of the womb in dark sunglasses. She was performing at illegal warehouse parties as a teenager and her parents came with her. Not dropped her off, but, like, went inside. She's British. Her stage name came from an old online scream name. It basically meant kiss me. She has synesthesia. So music is in colors in her head. I want to talk to her about that. And she's been behind some of the biggest pop hits of the last decade. But in the summer of 2024, she had a moment so big, it jumped out of music and into the American presidential election. She's wildly talented, beautiful, unapologetically herself, but most people know her as one word, brat. It's the amazing Charli xcx.

[Jason Bateman]

Hello.

[Charli XCX]

Oh, hello.

[Sean Hayes]

Look at her go. Hi, everybody.

[Charli XCX]

Hello.

[Sean Hayes]

How are you?

[Charli XCX]

I'm good, thank you. How are you?

[Sean Hayes]

Good. Are you in a kitchen somewhere?

[Charli XCX]

It sort of sounds like it, doesn't it? No, I'm in this. I don't know what this is. It's a room.

[Sean Hayes]

It's a medical place.

[Charli XCX]

This behind me. Basically, that's all that's going on.

[Jason Bateman]

Are there cadavers in there? Listener? There's a metal wall behind her.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. Shiny metal. Yeah. How I'm so. Thanks for being here. This is so cool.

[Charli XCX]

Thank you for having me.

[Sean Hayes]

Where are you? Were you just filming something or something?

[Charli XCX]

Yes, I'm sorry I was late.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, good.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Are you in London?

[Charli XCX]

No, I'm in la. I'm in LA right now.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay.

[Jason Bateman]

Are you liking what you're filming?

[Charli XCX]

Well, yeah, I mean, it's just. I'm doing promo for a movie, so I'm kind of. This is my first time doing promo for a film.

[Sean Hayes]

Is this the mockumentary or is this the other one?

[Charli XCX]

Yes, it's the mockumentary.

[Sean Hayes]

This movie looks awesome.

[Jason Bateman]

Tell us about it.

[Sean Hayes]

What's it called? Yeah, tell it.

[Charli XCX]

It's called the Moment, and it's basically a. It's kind of a revisionist of 2024.

[Sean Hayes]

And A24 is producing it?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, A24 are producing it. And it's basically a. Yeah, it's like a satirical mockumentary about my first arena tour.

[Sean Hayes]

Right.

[Charli XCX]

And yeah, it's like a music industry satire very much in the realm of this is Spinal Tap and kind of opening night.

[Sean Hayes]

Right. It looks hilarious.

[Jason Bateman]

So you're sort of playing like a version of yourself.

[Charli XCX]

Yes, correct. Correct. A version of her.

[Jason Bateman]

How are you liking that? Is it because that necessitates sort of doing some. Like. Are you. Do you have to make yourself look foolish? Do you have to make yourself look different than what you truly are at times? Like, how does all that work?

[Charli XCX]

Well, I mean, my character is a real bitch, and everybody already thinks that I am one, so that's totally fine.

[Jason Bateman]

Who said that?

[Charli XCX]

Google it. It's out there.

[Sean Hayes]

Babes, Is it really?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

No, it's not.

[Sean Hayes]

No.

[Charli XCX]

No, but. No, it's. It's. Yeah, it was like a really. It was kind of an amazing process, and we were really lucky to work with some, like, a fucking awesome cast. Like, Alexander Skarsgrd is just absolutely incredible in the film.

[Sean Hayes]

Was any of it scripted, or is it really all improv?

[Charli XCX]

No, it was scripted, but we really did go off on a lot of improv. I mean, we had some really incredible comedians in the film as well, like Kate Balant and Jamie Demetriou, who are just. I mean, it's like their bread and butter. They're so. It's so effortless for them.

[Sean Hayes]

And your idea, or whose idea was it?

[Charli XCX]

The idea. It was based on an idea by me. Yeah. I guess I'd been approached to do a. Like, a more traditional tour film where, you know, we were gonna, like, film one of my shows. And I was kind of more interested in, like, subverting the form and taking that kind of traditional medium and then flipping it into something that felt just a bit more subversive and kind of more aligned with the work that I generally.

[Jason Bateman]

That's super smart. Like, you're not taking it too seriously. And it's kind of like Spinal Tap, you were saying, right?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. And I'm definitely not the hero of the story, which is very accurate to sort of my time in the music industry. I think you guys.

[Sean Hayes]

You guys have to watch the trailer.

[Jason Bateman]

Who directed it?

[Charli XCX]

Aidan Zemeri directed the film. It's his debut feature.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Charli XCX]

He's really incredible and has done a lot of music videos in the past.

[Jason Bateman]

How did you like the whole filming process? I mean, is that. Cause it can be long days, right? Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

I mean, this film was really on kind of like, an expedited timeline. I mean, we wrote the first draft in a week, and then after that, we. That was. We handed in the first draft sort of New Year's Eve, and then we were shooting by March, so it was very, like, fast. Very, very fast, as was the shoot itself. You know, sort of like five weeks and kind of, like really light hardcore hitting it. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

And did you already have. Was it. Was it done during one of your tours, or did you have to, like, get a whole stage together and do all that stuff, too?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah, we. We made a whole stage, and the stage is very kind of, like, not what I would actually do on tour.

[Sean Hayes]

So it's not real footage from the. From your tour?

[Charli XCX]

No, there's no tour there's no tour footage in it at all, so.

[Sean Hayes]

What about the crowds? You got this big crowd.

[Charli XCX]

We filmed. We film. Well, I don't. You know, Movie magic, guys. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Good. Okay. That would be a bummer to have to do all that stuff in front of all those people and, like, waiting and throwing stuff at you.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

For God's sake, take a sip of your tea.

[Charli XCX]

Take a sip of your tea. It's really hot, actually. Is. What's going on? I'm just kind of blowing on it.

[Jason Bateman]

You got time.

[Sean Hayes]

So are you. So right. So lick it. You picked your name when you were really young. I know you probably. I've never heard this answer, but please, like, for me and our listener, tell me, like, how did you come up with the name?

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, and for me, too. I'm an old man. Help me.

[Charli XCX]

Well, yeah, it was my MSN screen name.

[Sean Hayes]

And that's really good.

[Will Arnett]

That's really good.

[Charli XCX]

I just kind of went with that. I stuck with that. And.

[Sean Hayes]

And it's just a kiss thing. Like Cage.

[Charli XCX]

It's Charlie Kiss. Yeah. I think, like, when I was a lot younger, I was sort of really kind of, like, insecure about it being too boring, so I sort of tried to, like, make it stand for much more, like, X rated version, but it didn't stick because it wasn't the truth. So. Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

And, dudes, does anybody call you Charlotte anymore?

[Charli XCX]

No. No one does, actually.

[Sean Hayes]

Not even family?

[Will Arnett]

No.

[Charli XCX]

Everyone calls me Charlie. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

How about Chuck? Ever Chuck?

[Charli XCX]

You know, actually, a lot of my American friends do say Chuck.

[Jason Bateman]

I would. I love anybody I know that's Charles or Charlie. I always go to Chuck. I don't know why.

[Charli XCX]

I get Chuck and I get Chuckles quite a lot. Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Very good. Do you remember? Of course you do. This is my Chris Farley version. Do you remember that day you tweeted kamala is brat, and then Jay, do you remember that?

[Charli XCX]

I do.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. And then Kamala's whole, like, campaign became the color of your album.

[Jason Bateman]

That started with you, Charlie.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Come on.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

You didn't start.

[Sean Hayes]

Because the name of the album's brat.

[Charli XCX]

Okay.

[Jason Bateman]

See, I'm very old.

[Charli XCX]

Don't worry, Jason. It's fine. It was only a cultural phenomenon.

[Sean Hayes]

But by the way, I'm a big fan and I know this old timer

[Jason Bateman]

doesn't get past, you know, I still need to watch Sopranos, so. So wait, you did not come up with the term brat. I'm assuming brat was a. Was a. Was a term. Was a phrase. Or did you start? Did you start?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, it's the name of my album.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, but you got it into the main, like in the.

[Charli XCX]

So my. My. My album was an album where the COVID is green, right? Lime green, with the word brat on it. And that was something that was sort of like adopted by a lot of people on the Internet, eventually by Carmela after I did that tweet. And then it became sort of part of, like, the conversation to be brat or not be brat.

[Jason Bateman]

No, that part. That part I definitely. I woke up for. For sure.

[Charli XCX]

I mean, who knows? It doesn't sound like you're up for a lot, mate.

[Jason Bateman]

It found me in my hole. But no, wait, there's a better way to say that. But when you put the title of it originally on your album, was it already a phrase that was kind of in the lexicon? Or did you bring.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, you created.

[Charli XCX]

I mean, the word brat existed, but it wasn't a classical sense. Yes, yes, but. But no, it wasn't. I don't think, at least that it was in the lexicon in that. In the way that it.

[Jason Bateman]

In the way that it became associated with people just kind of owning it.

[Sean Hayes]

I mean, that's so cool.

[Jason Bateman]

Right? Which is kind of what it kind of became. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Okay.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. And then all the hits, man, off that album. I mean, so many effing hits. It's crazy.

[Charli XCX]

Thank you.

[Sean Hayes]

You know the 360 Apple? What are they? Von Von Dutch? Von Dutch. Hello Goodbye was on the. On the. On the Extent. Like the deluxe version.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Wow.

[Charli XCX]

Justice for very little known track, Hello Goodbye.

[Sean Hayes]

I like hello Goodbye. I like it a lot.

[Jason Bateman]

Wait, do they still call those things B sides?

[Charli XCX]

It's. It's not technically a B side, but it was.

[Sean Hayes]

It's like a deluxe version again, just like you. Deluxe. So you grew up in Essex, right? I can't picture you as a kid. What were you like at school growing up with this talent that you had at such a young age? You know, I just find. Cause your dad's Scottish and your mom's Indian. Did one culture. Did one, like, feel more present than the other? You know what I mean? Was it different at school for you?

[Charli XCX]

I mean, they were both sort of present culturally and also not. You know, I think I kind of lived this life where, like, I would go and see my mom's side of the family at the weekend. And when I was sort of around them, I would always kind of feel, I suppose, more white because I guess I didn't entirely perhaps connect with certain parts of the culture that I wasn't always present for. You know?

[Sean Hayes]

Right, right.

[Charli XCX]

And then I think in school, I would often feel more brown, you know, and more Indian, just because I think a lot of my school friends, their only kind of reference point for an Indian person was Apu from the Simpsons, you know, So I would feel very kind of like, you know, and that would be like, a joke for them. So I would be a bit like, I couldn't really connect there, and I couldn't really connect with my mom's family. So it was, you know, but it was sort of like that kind of a, like, slight displacement type thing, you know?

[Jason Bateman]

And what was like the. Was it was the toughest age for you. The same as. As it is for. Certainly for me, for most people, like, like, seventh grade, eighth grade, like, 13, 14, like, that's when I found kids are the meanest. And, like, my feelings got hurt the most. And I was. And I was scarred the most. And I still hold on. My point is, I hold on to certain things that really scarred me back then, but actually gave me a bit of a thicker skin to be able to hand. Like, I didn't have this sort of clarity back then. But in retrospect, there is sort of, I guess, a benefit to going through some of the tough sledding that happens at that age. And certainly, like, if you have an older sibling, when they kind of, like, tease you and stuff. In retrospect, now, being the old timer that I am, I do look back at. And having kids of my own now, I do sort of see the stuff they go through as, like, it helped me a lot. I didn't see it at the time. Do you find that it helped shape you and the kind of music you make now?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

I mean, I don't have any siblings, so I didn't. I actually think not having siblings actually means that you miss out on a lot of conflict. And I mean that in, like, actually a bad way. Like, I think my friends who have siblings are so much better at conflict, as in, they don't kind of amplify it up into this huge, dramatic thing. It's just they're able to move through it a lot more quickly than I am because they know how to diffuse it, you know?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. And as an only child, you're sort of protected and you're coddled and it's all about you.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. And then also, it's like the only people you really have to really fight with is your parents, who are this, you know, figure of authority in a way. So the kind of. The clash feels like far more Drastic. And there isn't like a sibling to kind of, you know, just diffuse it a bit and make it feel less of a big deal. So it feels really gigantic. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Does that mean that you would love to have more than one kid? Or do you. Or would you like to have a kid that has the same sort of experience as you where it's the only child and then you get to just kind of nurture and protect and.

[Charli XCX]

I actually don't really want to have kids.

[Jason Bateman]

No. None.

[Will Arnett]

You don't.

[Sean Hayes]

Wait, why?

[Charli XCX]

You know, who knows? That could change.

[Sean Hayes]

It's none of my business.

[Jason Bateman]

But Shani, you've never really had any interest in.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I mean, I've said it a million times that I want to want to have kids, but. And my husband Scotty grew up an only child. And you can use this phrase. He always says I was spoiled but not rotten.

[Charli XCX]

Right.

[Sean Hayes]

So he was always. He has to learn how. He had to learn everything that you're saying, like how to diffuse conflict and all that stuff. But, yeah, I was. You know what's. I'm sat in the middle million times on this show that I'd rather regret not having kids than have them and regret it later.

[Charli XCX]

Right, right, right.

[Sean Hayes]

Because you never know what you're gonna get. Like, they roll the dice. Do you ever see the show Intervention? It's like, if I had a kid, that's where they would end up, like dragging me through the street, like fucking drug addict.

[Jason Bateman]

They would be great.

[Charli XCX]

I mean, I know what you mean. It's like I love like the fantasy of having a child. Like. Like naming it sounds so fun. But I'm like, that is exactly assigned me as to why I should not have one. The fact that feels like the coolest part about it. Right. Maybe I'm not ready, you know, but

[Jason Bateman]

you know, all that could change if you. You might. I mean, I'm sort of. I guess I'm backing into giving myself a half assed compliment here, but my wife did not want to have kids. So the story goes. So she tells.

[Sean Hayes]

And she didn't. And you adopted yours.

[Jason Bateman]

And she said once. Once. Once we started going out and she met. She was like, okay, I think I can have a kid with this guy. So you might find somebody.

[Charli XCX]

Well, I'm married, so there we go.

[Jason Bateman]

I gotta read a newspaper.

[Charli XCX]

You know, it's okay.

[Jason Bateman]

That's why you're here.

[Charli XCX]

I was enjoy. I knew immediately, like, where you were gonna go. I knew my response. I was really looking forward to it.

[Jason Bateman]

Your next husband, you're Gonna want kids.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jason Bateman]

Let me finish, Charlie.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. We'll be right back.

[Jason Bateman]

My home, like your home, It's a retreat, right? It's your nest, right? And you want to, you want to be able to just lay out in that nest, you know, after a long day. So, you know, like my couch, like your couch is probably deep. It's soft, highly crashable. Right. The home should show off who you are. And, and Ashley has styles that balance timeless appeal and modern trends to bring your personal look home. Ashley offers well crafted, affordable pieces built to stand up to real life with great looks that are made to last more than just eye catching design. Get features like stain resistant performance fabric options that are incredibly durable, stain resistant with machine washable cushion covers. Plus, Ashley provides fast, reliable white glove delivery right to your door. Now, my buns are very familiar with the Jerson Low swivel chair. I sat in this chair at our show in Los Angeles that we did in front of a live audience. And let me tell you something, I would have sat there for another three, four, five hours, but then we would have had to have charged everybody four, five times the amount they spent on the one hour show. So it didn't make any sense. But the Jerson Low swivel chair made that a temptation for me. Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style.

[Sean Hayes]

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[Jason Bateman]

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[Sean Hayes]

But wait, though. This is really cool. This is so wild. I did not know this, that. So when you start, for starting out, all the illegal warehouses. This is what I read. All the illegal warehouses that you would go to, you would go to raves and you would what, perform there and your parents would not just drop you up, they would go inside with you.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, right. I mean, I was so lucky. They were very supportive at the time. I was like, this is so lame. Like, they're cramping my style. But, you know, they were obviously just very, very supportive. I feel very lucky.

[Sean Hayes]

And so you would play shows at these raves, right?

[Charli XCX]

Yes.

[Jason Bateman]

Are they still involved with your career? There's a lot of musicians that still have parents that are involved in career, very successful.

[Charli XCX]

Mine aren't, but they're still, you know, they're very. They're very proud and they're very supportive. But they're not involved in. In my career. No.

[Jason Bateman]

Do they ever give you notes on your music? Do they like your music?

[Charli XCX]

They used my. My dad used to love throwing out some suggestions. Yes, Very, very.

[Jason Bateman]

Anything useful. Anything useful ever.

[Charli XCX]

You know, I think it's like, I feel bad for him because I think it's one of those things where even if it was the most amazing idea ever, I think purely because. And this is. He used to do this when I was a lot younger, like, purely because he was my dad, that he was always gonna get the.

[Jason Bateman]

No.

[Charli XCX]

You know what I mean?

[Sean Hayes]

Right, right.

[Charli XCX]

But I'm sure, you know, he's a smart guy. I'm sure he probably does have good song ideas up there.

[Sean Hayes]

Can you tell Jason about the story about your dad? Somebody tried to sell drugs to your dad at one of the raves.

[Charli XCX]

Right. This was actually my mom. Someone tried to sell some drugs to my mom at rave.

[Will Arnett]

Can you hear me?

[Sean Hayes]

Yes.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, Will, I gotta say so. So, listener, we've gone 17 minutes without Will Arnett. And it's really been great. Hasn't it?

[Sean Hayes]

Kind of been breezy.

[Jason Bateman]

It's like, this is a very useful experiment. Willie, if you ever have an illness or something like that, we're good.

[Sean Hayes]

We got you.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. Or not, if you're actually cooking. Great.

[Will Arnett]

I can't believe. This is, like, my worst nightmare.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, please don't worry. We're here for you.

[Charli XCX]

What's happening over there? You okay?

[Will Arnett]

No. I'm having a stressful day. Charlie. Do I call you Charlie?

[Charli XCX]

You kind of.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, we've covered it.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, we covered it.

[Will Arnett]

I've had. Charlie, can I just say, I've had a really. I shared with the boys. I won't get into it, but I've had a really stressful day. On a personal level, it's been a very.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, yeah, we're gonna get into it after.

[Jason Bateman]

Insert joke here.

[Will Arnett]

No, well, there was an insert joke.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Part of the problem.

[Sean Hayes]

He's still got it anyway. He still got it.

[Will Arnett]

Charlie, I'm sorry to have missed it. This is not. This is unlike me. I'm usually pretty good about this kind

[Charli XCX]

of stuff, but anyway, don't you worry. It's so fun.

[Sean Hayes]

Everybody's got, like, you know, this is one of the best episodes because Charlie was a little late. You were a little late. I'm always a little late.

[Jason Bateman]

I avoided a little teasing that Will undoubtedly would have given me for really having my head up my ass about Charlie. And like all granted, Granddad here needed a little update.

[Sean Hayes]

He didn't know she was the she born the term brat, you know, with Kamala Harris and all that. Like, she was.

[Will Arnett]

I don't think I knew that either. I know who you are. I'm very aware of your music and who you are. It should be noted.

[Charli XCX]

Don't you worry.

[Jason Bateman]

I'm still listening to Steely Dan. Charlie.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, and that's cool.

[Jason Bateman]

This is the problem.

[Charli XCX]

That's. That's cool.

[Sean Hayes]

Wait, I just. I just thought it was funny. I was talking. Well, I was talking about how Charlie. Charlie's parents used to go with her to the raves that she performed at, like, all these parties.

[Will Arnett]

That's fun.

[Sean Hayes]

And that is.

[Jason Bateman]

And her mom. Her mom was offered a baggie of.

[Charli XCX]

Of. Well, of mdma, but she thought that they said mdf, as in the wood that you can buy to, like, panel a wall. And my dad was like, we could use some of that, but I don't know how we're gonna fit it in the car. And the guy was kind of like. Like, wait, like, how much do you want to buy?

[Jason Bateman]

You know?

[Charli XCX]

And I just. I thought it was a very, like, sweet story.

[Jason Bateman]

He's got a lot of tolerance. He can handle a lot.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, that would be really Useful for us, actually, if I think about it at the house, what we could use.

[Jason Bateman]

By the way, this might be inappropriate, but I am hearing a lot about MDMA again. Getting back to being an old timer here. I'm hearing it's. It's quite the thing. And it's. It's a lot of.

[Sean Hayes]

Is that the horse tranquilizer thing?

[Jason Bateman]

I think it's kind of like ecstasy.

[Will Arnett]

Kind of like what ecstasy used to be. Right, Right.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, I'm. I had a little of that back. Way back in the day. And I'm hearing this MDMA is. Is a. Is a good time. I'm not advocating trying it or doing it, kids, but I hear it's a new. It's a new thing.

[Charli XCX]

Well, they do MDMA therapy now, I think. Right. Which is not something that I've tried,

[Sean Hayes]

but I've never tried it. Have you?

[Will Arnett]

I believe it. In therapy. Like a Friday night therapy. You know what I mean?

[Jason Bateman]

One night with like a little side car of. Of Tito's.

[Will Arnett]

Whatever it is that you like.

[Sean Hayes]

Whatever.

[Will Arnett]

Whatever makes it go down a little better, you know?

[Jason Bateman]

Gotcha.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay, so wait, so I want to know. Okay, so I want to talk about, like, get an amusing stuff. So do you remember the first time? Because I find your story so fascinating that you were so young and you started. You discovered you had this talent at such a young age and you were kind of like a superstar and you flew under the radar. And then, you know, I knew you probably, like the world knew you with I love it, I don't care. Like, that song was so huge. And no, I only did I don't care. I love it. But you weren't really featured in the video, which I thought was weird. And so what was that like, knowing you wrote this song and this was your song, but was having the success without your face on it, kind of, so to speak.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, no, I mean, it was funny. I had a really sort of like, strange career in that, like, I. I was kind of like doing a lot of stuff and had some really, really big hits, but I was often either the writer of the song or the feature of the song, and so nobody really knew who I was. So I did exactly as you just said. Like, completely fly under the radar. Like, I was like going to cool shit, like, working with incredible people, traveling the world, but was also kind of completely anonymous. So it was very. It was like, interesting and very actually useful, I think for me, especially with my previous record, Brat, which really did kind of like open me to a much wider audience. Massive I think had I not had that experience back in like 2013, 2014 of these, like, honestly, like, big chart topping songs, I probably would be like, totally like off my head right now because I wouldn't really be prepared. Do you know what I mean?

[Sean Hayes]

Right, right.

[Charli XCX]

So. And I would be like a complete nightmare, which maybe I still am, I don't know, but do you know what I mean? No. You're not really indulging.

[Sean Hayes]

You're not.

[Charli XCX]

So, yeah, it was interesting and it's kind of like over those years from then to now have sort of like built my audience sort of in a very kind of slow, like, organic way. So, yeah, it's been a kind of interesting path.

[Sean Hayes]

And tell me, tell these gu. Just go ahead. You have free reign to brag all the artists you've written songs for. Not all, but like the.

[Jason Bateman]

So you'll write. You'll write songs for other artists all the time that you don't necessarily want to perform yourself.

[Charli XCX]

Yes.

[Sean Hayes]

Big hit songs.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. Like, okay, Selena Gomez, Iggy Azalea, Camila Cabello.

[Sean Hayes]

Camila Cabello.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Wow.

[Sean Hayes]

Shawn Mendes. Right.

[Charli XCX]

Blunt, randomly.

[Will Arnett]

Do you write them for them or you write them thinking that you might do it? Or they just become a. You're like, hey, I've got a song that I've written. Or somebody comes to you and says,

[Jason Bateman]

charlie, hey, I've got an idea. Do this for me.

[Will Arnett]

Or can you just write me a song?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

How does that work? It goes every way. All of those ways are options. Sometimes it's kind of like a, we need songs for XYZ artists and this is what they want. This is what they want to say. And then sometimes it's like, I'll write a song and I'll be like, oh, I thought this was for me. But actually I don't think I should sing like a sort of flamenco sounding pop song because that doesn't make sense for me as an artist.

[Jason Bateman]

And what you're writing is the music or the lyrics or both in these cases.

[Charli XCX]

I write the lyrics and the top line, which is sort of the melody that the singer sings.

[Jason Bateman]

Right.

[Sean Hayes]

Incredible. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Cause I was surprised a few years ago. I learned that it's. It's not that uncommon for some of the biggest stars in the world to not write anything ever. It's all incoming. They're just the sing. I don't mean to belittle it, but they only do the singing and everything else is kind of taken care of. Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

But you know what? It's like, it's funny I think there's a real stigma against that. You know, like, that. That sort of in some ways, like, makes those people less of an artist. But I don't really agree with that. I think there's like. Like different types of artistry. Like, there's someone who's. There's like a great performer versus a great writer versus a great entertainer versus a really like, unbelievable vocalist. I think there's would also be like the.

[Jason Bateman]

The equivalent. Sorry, it would be the equivalent of like an. An actor just acting versus somebody who's also who writes and directs and produces as well as act. It's like, it's. It's really cool that you can do all of those things.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, I mean, I. Yeah, I enjoy it.

[Sean Hayes]

I mean, wait till this movie comes out. I mean, like.

[Jason Bateman]

And how did that. How did that. Were one of your par. Were your parents musically inclined that they kind of put the bug in you?

[Charli XCX]

No, not really. How did you find it? I think it was. It was. I just. I played piano.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

Growing up, I was sort of studying classical piano and I. When I was younger, I had no interest in classical music at all. I didn't think it was cool. I didn't get it. Now I feel completely different. I love classical music, but at the time I really didn't relate to it and I thought it was kind of embarrassing that I was doing it. So instead I really was trying to write pop songs and chords and kind of escape out of this classical stuff that I was learning.

[Will Arnett]

But that background in that must have helped you sort of songwriting wise. Yes.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. Elton John talks about that, how that informed a lot of his writing.

[Charli XCX]

You know what, it's interesting because when I was studying classical music, I was really basically just doing it to pass the grades, like the classical grades. And each grade you would have to learn three pieces of music. And then you would do an exam where you would play the pieces of music and you would also do sight reading. And another test. I can't remember what it was, but I actually couldn't read music. I always really had like trouble reading the music and playing what was there. So I would spend an entire year, like, learning and practicing these pieces by ear instead of like actually just being able to pick up any piece of music and read it.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, it's called like the Suzuki Method.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, sure. I think so. Yeah. And so, like, I. So I like, couldn't really, like, read any other music. So I actually have a really like, low level knowledge of classical music. So when Elton John's like, oh, yeah, for me, it really helped. That's probably because he's obviously fucking Elton John and can probably play, you know, any single thing ever. But I could only really hear things by ear.

[Sean Hayes]

Right. And. And also like it to the extent you feel comfortable talking about synesthesia, because I think it's fascinating. Do you guys know what that is?

[Jason Bateman]

No, it's.

[Will Arnett]

Where is it where you see music

[Sean Hayes]

is that you see color. You see music in color. Oh, really? So can you describe that and how you first found out you had that and how you use it today?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, I mean, it's funny. It's like. I think it's not just about music. It can be. I don't know. Some people might be, like, see the days of the week in colors. It's a kind of color association to a thing. And different people have different stuff.

[Will Arnett]

I have that.

[Sean Hayes]

You have that?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, for certain things, I have colors, but I've never thought about it, but yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Really? Wow.

[Will Arnett]

For days of the week. You said days of the week. Days of the week have colors for me.

[Jason Bateman]

Wow. You've just been diagnosed by Charlie and you didn't even know.

[Will Arnett]

I didn't know. Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

And so do you put. Do you put.

[Jason Bateman]

What color's Wednesday?

[Will Arnett]

Pink.

[Sean Hayes]

What, you just made that up?

[Will Arnett]

No. Thursday's green Friday's orange Saturday's blue Sunday's yellow Monday's blue Are Fridays you're in love Tuesday's red Fridays you're in love

[Sean Hayes]

by the Cure I don't care what

[Jason Bateman]

it's gonna cost us too.

[Will Arnett]

But anyway, sorry, but it's not as evolved as yours.

[Charli XCX]

No. I mean, so it's basically just. For me, it's like when I first started realizing that I guess I had it and I didn't really know what it was, when I was sort of figuring it out was when I was working with producers, and I would sort of say, like, can you make this sound more blue or more purple? And I wouldn't quite be able to articulate specifically, like, the sound design that I needed, but I just knew that it needed to sound purple. And then when the producer would help generate that sound, I would say, like, that's it.

[Jason Bateman]

That's my purple.

[Charli XCX]

That's purple or whatever.

[Jason Bateman]

And so now do you have to work with that producer all the time?

[Charli XCX]

Well, yeah, I mean, I do work with the same people quite a lot. I mean, they know. They definitely, definitely know, like, what I mean when I say certainly.

[Will Arnett]

Have you ever. Have you ever tried, like. I don't know how to explain this. Have you ever, like, Listened to music or listened to one of your own songs and tried to paint it as you listen to it?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I was gonna ask that.

[Charli XCX]

I haven't actually, but I think I do sort of like see it kind of. And when I listen to other music, I kind of like, I see it in a way. I'm like, oh, this song evokes this color immediately.

[Sean Hayes]

And do you ever reverse engineer that? And for inspiration, when you write a song like, you know, we always ask a lot of musicians what comes first, the lyrics of the music. Do you ever see a color first and then music comes from that?

[Charli XCX]

More recently, no. It's really generated specifically by when I hear sound, then I start thinking about color. But on this last record, to be honest, a lot of the songs were generated from like lyrical based ideas. Like I was really leading with lyrics.

[Will Arnett]

Is that new? Is that like a departure from.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah. Cause I used to kind of write phonetically where I would sort of go into the booth and just kind of record like a. Kind of like a ad lib track where I'd be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And then I would fit like lyrics to the vowel sounds that I was creating. But now, yeah, more recently I'm becoming much more lyric led because I think on the last record I had some really specific stories that I wanted to tell. And I didn't feel. I don't know, I just felt like I really wanted to kind of throw out any tropes that I had previously used in the past. I particularly wasn't interested in rhyme with this record. I just wanted to say the direct dialogue from my brain in the way that I would text a friend. I think that became kind of the tone of the record.

[Will Arnett]

So are you doing it on piano based on your sort of your history with piano? Do you ever do that?

[Charli XCX]

To be honest, no. My music is very electronic and kind of, especially on the last record, like very like club based dance music. So I wasn't really going to the piano too much.

[Jason Bateman]

But given what you were saying about how you're much more lyric driven right now, there's certain things that you really like talking about and saying and communicating. How important is it to you that people hear every word in the lyrics? Cause like, I'll try to follow lyrics and you know, some folks, they. They don't, they don't really, you know, they won't screw up the song to enunciate, you know. Cause sometimes it sounds better. Just kind of, just kind of mumble it out. And I get that.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

But you're like, motherfucker, I want to hear what you're saying.

[Jason Bateman]

Then you look on Apple Music for the lyrics.

[Sean Hayes]

Right, right, right. I do that, too.

[Charli XCX]

I don't. Yeah, I don't really care about enunciation, to be honest. I think it's. If you.

[Sean Hayes]

Overrated.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, it's overrated. And also, I'd love to hear, you know, your interpretation of what I'm saying rather than what I'm actually saying, because, you know, no one fact checks anyway anymore. So it's sort of fun to just play into it.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, sorry, Sean, go ahead.

[Sean Hayes]

No, I was just gonna say, how do you know when a song. I don't think we've ever asked this of any musician on the show. How do you know when a song is done? Because it's like in film editing, you could just do it forever. Like, you could just tweak and tweak and tweak. So for you, when you write all these massive hit songs, this long list of all these huge songs, how do you know when you're done?

[Charli XCX]

I mean, I think it's different for everyone, but for me, I mean, people can go for ages on a song as well and really, like, chip back into it over and over again in the way that you would with an edit.

[Will Arnett]

But.

[Charli XCX]

But for me, that's my nightmare. I think there's a real charm in spontaneity, and that's a big part of my process as an artist, as a writer. It's really that instinctual kind of first reaction to something that there's something almost charming and naive to it sometimes, you know, when you're a kid and you're coming up with ideas, like, if a kid writes a song, sometimes they could say something so profound and actually really surreal and abstract that as an adult, it might take you a while to kind of think of or something, and then it might even feel too forced. I feel like that's. For me, it's the same when I'm writing. I'm like, the first idea is often just way more, I don't know, unique than when I've sat down and really thought about it for a while. So I really try and just capture the moment in that kind of a way.

[Will Arnett]

Do you know when you have finished a song, do you ever get that sense where you go, this is a hit song. I can feel it. And for real, I mean, you must have this.

[Charli XCX]

I do, but it's like those ones are always the ones that actually end up sucking. You know what I mean? It's like, I mean, it's like, I'm sure I don't know if you guys have the. When you're writing or when you're performing. If ever you think you kill it, you probably didn't. You know what I mean? It's like one of those moments all the time. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

And also if it's immediately, if it's immediately catchy, you can get sick of it really quick. And those are the ones that are probably too simplistic or the public might get tired of too fast and it doesn't involve possibly.

[Charli XCX]

I also think it's funny. I think we're in this kind of new era of creativity as a whole. I definitely feel this way about writing songs. I don't know how you guys feel about this, but I think we live in such a reference heavy world now that I think things can kind of become catchy or earworms or something that you want to revisit for other reasons outside of maybe they're really dynamically written or the melody is technically good. It could actually be just be you're referencing something that's so within the zeitgeist that that itself is like the hook of it. And I think that's a really interesting way of writing. Like it's more like topical writing.

[Will Arnett]

Well, I think that that probably happens a lot. We have like, think about all the, you know, the songs that we love sort of for nostalgic reasons. Right. That other people might be like, yeah, that song doesn't really mean much to me.

[Jason Bateman]

You're like, really?

[Will Arnett]

Doesn't it remind you of that summer when we were 17? They're like, no, not really. Sorry.

[Charli XCX]

Right? Yeah, for sure.

[Jason Bateman]

And we will be right back.

[Sean Hayes]

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[Jason Bateman]

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[Sean Hayes]

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[Jason Bateman]

What's the turnaround time for a song? Because, like, if you were trying to follow trend with film, it'd be a fool's name. Aaron. Because it takes about a year to turn a movie around from when you start it, to cut it, to release it. I mean, at a, at a, at a minimum, how long does it take to turn a song around?

[Charli XCX]

I could like a. A day. I mean, I mean, not even. I mean, sometimes you write, I wrote I love it in 30 minutes, which is the one that you were singing amazingly. But it's not. That's not me being like, aren't I amazing? I mean, the lyrics are like on repeat. It's not, you know what I mean? It's like, but it's just, I think it's just like we have this saying, like me and a couple of my collaborators, where it's like, you have to dare to suck, right? And like, sometimes in like daring to suck, actually the most fucking like universal genius idea comes out where you're just being stupid.

[Will Arnett]

I've been daring to suck my whole life, if I'm being honest.

[Sean Hayes]

If I was sitting in a studio and I was writing, I mean, I could. 360 Apple.

[Will Arnett]

Whatever.

[Jason Bateman]

Whatever.

[Sean Hayes]

But. But since you said it, I love it. I don't care. And I would be like, guys, what about this? I love it. I don't care. I wouldn't have the confidence to be like, yeah, I think that's gonna work. You know what I mean?

[Charli XCX]

That's it, right? It's like. It's like commitment to the bit, you know, It's. That's. That's all it is. It's like, if I, like, came to you guys with my tail between my legs and, like, sung those words.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

Like, whatever. But if I, like, tell you, no, this is the, like, the shit. And it's so good. And, like, it's. Even if you think it's dumb, it's like. That's the point.

[Will Arnett]

I'm so inspired by you right now.

[Sean Hayes]

It is. I mean, I am, too, but. Where did you get that from, Charlie?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. And that's a great environment to provide for the people around you like that. You must. You must enjoy that leadership position of creating harmony in your work so it feels safe and there's no bad ideas. We can be foolish.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think. Yeah, it's fun. I think there's this idea that I sometimes disagree with, that making good art has to be hard. And sometimes I really disagree with that. But sometimes I'm like, no, I'm in paint, and I'm a real artist. And I like to kind of pendulum swing between both of those things, but I don't know. I think. Yeah, it's funny. I'm always very. I have always been very interested in, like, the connectivity between high and low. That's always just been, like, something that's been really inspiring to me. And I think that whole, like, daring to suck mentality, it's very sort of like, I don't know, like, factory war. Holy. In a way, it's like, paint the soup. Just fucking paint it.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. Well, what. I think that it's also about the idea of, like. I remember having this teacher once, years ago, telling me, like, art is absence of ego. Like, if you can get to the place where you're not judging it in real time, where you can let go. And you guys know what it means, too, when you're doing what we do or whatever, where you can get to that place where you're not judging it and you're just in the. For lack of a better word, flow. And you're just in that thing, that

[Jason Bateman]

pocket when you get in those two. The people you're around. Yes and no.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. Yes. And you can kind of. And like, you don't worry about it. You're not worried about the result of it. You're not thinking about how it's coming across.

[Sean Hayes]

You're not thinking.

[Will Arnett]

You get out of the results. And just then those moments are magic.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, Yeah, I totally agree. And I. And what I also think. And I'm not sure if you guys feel this way, but I think the second I try and write for someone else or to appeal to lots of people, yes. It's like everything. Everything kind of falls apart. And actually it's like that more like potent vision where maybe you're even just like selfishly writing for yourself really directly about your experience or your experience with one friend or whatever it is the more kind of potent and distilled it is. It weirdly actually then becomes something that more people can relate to because it's so singular, because you believe it and

[Will Arnett]

you're doing it for you. And what's funny is we live in this world increasingly because of whatever social media, et cetera, where we do it is all about this sort of. There is so much feedback constantly on what we do, so it's harder and harder to get away from that. And what's funny is just hearing you say it is that we need to kind of reject that in order to make something really pure in that way. We need to reject the idea of what other people will like, even though the final product of what we do is for public consumption, for mass public consumption too, you know, so it's kind of mask. So it's kind of cool. Contradictory to the exercise in a way. And yet that's the thing.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a conflict for sure.

[Sean Hayes]

With all the success you've had, Charlie. Like it three Grammys and one Grammy show and one year at the same show. That's crazy. Three Grammys. What? And you say, and like I keep saying over and over, I'm just like, so impressed by your talent at such a young age that you, somebody, your parents, you, whoever encouraged you to keep going with that. And then now that you are older and, knock on wood, hopefully wiser, what's the part of the music industry that shocked you the most? You know, once you were actually inside of it? You know, like, if you knew then

[Charli XCX]

what, you know now, just how no one really Knows what they're doing.

[Jason Bateman]

Right.

[Charli XCX]

You know?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. Isn't that the truth? Truth? That is the truth.

[Charli XCX]

Like, everybody is. It's very funny. It's just sort of.

[Sean Hayes]

And you thought that. You thought differently.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, I was like, oh, this must be run by, like, a really, like, tight ship of people who, like, know what's up and. No, you know, it's like, it's not really the case, nor is it, I think, ever the case in any sort of, like, creative field. It's like the artists know what they're doing, and then hopefully you have people with brains to facilitate you and they're not too annoying, really. It's like kind of of the vibe, right?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Will Arnett]

It's funny. Do you feel like they're like, kind of also you, you create the stuff and then the business sort of reacts to it? They're much more reactionary, rather. Right. So. And then they're always trying to recreate with other people, like, that whole idea.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

And.

[Charli XCX]

And you know what? Like, I think when I was younger, that used to really bother me, but I, I, I think now, you know, it does. And I think that's just. Obviously, that's just the way it is. It's like, Like, I couldn't be a record label exec. Like, I couldn't work, like, a distribution company. Like, I, you know, it's like, I, that's not the brain that I have. I have a different kind of brain where I'm like, why don't we fly planes through the sky that say brat Summer or whatever? You know, it's like. And then they figure out how to do it. Like, I don't know. It's like. But I did used to be sort of frustrated by, why can't you all be on my page with my ideas? But actually, that would be a nightmare because then it'd be less about me, which would be awful.

[Sean Hayes]

Right, right, right. All right. Do you remember the first time you walked on stage and felt like, the wall of sound coming at you and, like, wow. Like, just that feeling of, like, was it. Were you scared? You're like, oh, shit. I didn't think it was gonna be like, this or whatever.

[Jason Bateman]

That's too many people.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

[Charli XCX]

No, I think because my career was such a slow burn, like, when I started, When I was 15, I was playing to rooms of three people, and that was my two parents and the promoter. Do you know what I mean? I was welcoming more people, in a way. And over the past sort of 10, 15 years, it's really grown gradually and gradually and gradually from 100 cap rooms to 1000 rooms to 5000 cap rooms to now finally being in arenas. And the first time when I did step out into playing an arena, I just remember being like, well, there's gonna be no one there. And all the tickets have been bought by bots. That is what I convinced myself in my mind. I was like, no, it's gonna be so embarrassing. All the tickets are go.

[Jason Bateman]

Gonna.

[Charli XCX]

But they're all bots. Like, just, you know. And so it was. It was like, a really pleasant surprise on this film.

[Jason Bateman]

Was it just purely for, like, a musical film to sort of augment the musical venture and all that stuff, or was there a bit of an acting sort of curiosity there, too? And if so, do you see that being a part of your world going forward?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, I've been acting a little bit now and producing.

[Jason Bateman]

You're liking it?

[Charli XCX]

Honestly? I love it. I mean, I feel like it was funny. It's like once my album Brat did well, there was obviously this opportunity for me to just make another album exactly like that and kind of gain. Capitalize on it. And. And for me, I've always had this sort of motto of, like, what would Chloe Savigny do? And I feel like what she would have done would just be like. Like, no, that's really funny.

[Jason Bateman]

It's a great title to your new

[Sean Hayes]

album with Chloe Sevyn.

[Will Arnett]

You do?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, well, it's like, she's the coolest. And it's like, I think she would just probably be like, no, I quit music, you know, So I was kind of like, okay. I think I would like to sort of do some kind of a drastic pivot where I. Yeah, I kind of explore acting. I mean, I'm watching films, like, all the time, like, more than I've ever listened to. I basically never listen to music apart from, like, Lou Reed and, like, the Velvet Underground and, like, John Cale's solo stuff. That's, like, kind of it.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. Right.

[Charli XCX]

But I'm, like, watching a lot of films all the time.

[Jason Bateman]

Do you have a favorite this year?

[Charli XCX]

Favorite film this year?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, that I've seen. I just watched Seurat the other night,

[Will Arnett]

and I want to see that.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, is it good? I want to see that, too.

[Charli XCX]

It was really, really, really amazing. Really amazing. I also love this film, Atropia, which is this film by Haley Gates, who is. And Callum Turner is in it. And it's like a. Like a really. It's like very, very, like, funny, like, satire on that sort of like fake military zone that they have.

[Jason Bateman]

That sounds great.

[Charli XCX]

It's great. It's really great. I want to see. But yeah, so I'm kind of like, really enjoying watching. So I kind of sort of started asking like a few of my friends who are either like directors or writers, like, do you think I could kind of do this? And they were like, yeah, but like, don't be embarrassing about it. Like, you don't want to be like the girl who's like, I'm an actress now.

[Jason Bateman]

So I was like, yeah, no, no, no. I bet you'd be great. You have a great presence.

[Will Arnett]

I agree. I think your approach artistically, the way that you look at stuff, I think is really appropriate for.

[Charli XCX]

I think we'll talk about.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

I mean, I was interested in just doing like small things.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

You know, so I was really lucky to kind of. I did like this Gregoroki movie that I'm like, super excited about. I'm really excited to work with Takashi Miike this year on this film that I'm gonna produce, which is like crazy to me to like go to Japan and shoot with like a horror auteur. I'm like, this is insane. Yeah, I'm really enjoying it. I'm really enjoying it.

[Sean Hayes]

Total like, like crazy segue to nothing. But I. I just wanted to mention this. I thought it was so wild that you had an angel phone. Is that true? Where fans could call a number and you would actually answer and pick up at any time of the day.

[Jason Bateman]

No way.

[Sean Hayes]

Is that true?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, it, you know, it didn't last long cuz it was a nightmare.

[Will Arnett]

I'm sure, like five minutes in.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah, no, it was. It was good for like a good solid, you know, like five hours. But it was stacked, slammed, slam, slammed. But you guys should do one of them, you know, one day for an hour.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, it'd be fine.

[Will Arnett]

We'd be sitting by the phone. It would not ring. It'd be so embarrassing.

[Jason Bateman]

Then it would be one call with a bunch of notes.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

You guys here.

[Will Arnett]

It would be money.

[Jason Bateman]

That's what you need to fix.

[Sean Hayes]

And the last thing I read. That's really interesting. That's a little like me. But you have 14 alarm times saved on your phone, but none of them are on.

[Jason Bateman]

I've got that.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. I'm never really putting them on. Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

So is it like.

[Will Arnett]

What do you mean? What do you. You don't believe in alarms? What's the deal?

[Charli XCX]

I don't know. It's not sort of a political stance. It's More just like, I just, I'm. I generally like, I do kind of wake up roughly at the same time, unless I've been partying and then I might put an alarm on, you know.

[Sean Hayes]

Right, right, right.

[Will Arnett]

What's the time? What's the time you generally wake up? Wake up?

[Charli XCX]

It really depends if I've been traveling on. I'm a bit jet lagged at the moment, so I'm waking up at 7, which is very early for me. Yeah, that's like. Normally I'm like a 9:30 kind of girl.

[Jason Bateman]

So you're going to bed, you're going to bed at 2 or 3 in the morning? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, you should. Yeah, me too.

[Jason Bateman]

Hey, what, what about travel? How do you, how do you like that part of the business? Because it is a necessary component to, to music. Right?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. You must be on the road all the time.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, you have to tour. Right. You can't just sell albums.

[Charli XCX]

I hate touring. I. I hate touring and I really do it in quite a specific way where I think compared to a lot of my peers, I'm not really doing that much touring. Like my, my husband's in a band and they tour so much like all the time. I think their last album they toured for like two years or something like that, which is like just not an option for me.

[Jason Bateman]

But you'll go with them? Yeah, for a bit. Sometimes you kind of pop in every once in a while.

[Charli XCX]

Pop in? I'll pop in on like the coastal cities, you know. But I'm. Yeah, I'm not like, I'm not like on the bus, which is.

[Jason Bateman]

And what about him?

[Sean Hayes]

We'll, we'll hit for my sister, for, for Jason and my sister. George Daniel is the 1975. That's the band. Oh, Roger.

[Jason Bateman]

Roger.

[Charli XCX]

Okay.

[Jason Bateman]

And then what? He will, he will reciprocate and he'll come see you every once in a while when you're doing some touring.

[Charli XCX]

Yes, exactly. But he, it's kind of, I think a bit harder for him because he's sort of like a 6 foot 4 bald man. And my fans are all a lot shorter than that. And so it's very like easy for him to be like spotted when he's sort of bopping around. So. Yeah, but it's sweet. We do. Yeah, we, we swap. We go back and forth.

[Will Arnett]

Who are the musicians that you listen to when you're growing up that you like? What was the pop. Pop music. Pop music or any kind of music? Who were the, who are the bands that Inspired you?

[Charli XCX]

I was pretty, like, diverse. I mean, I think when I was a lot younger, I was very into, like, Britney and the Spice Girls. That was definitely my bread and butter. Yeah. And then as I got a bit older, I was really into the Cure to Kate Bush to Suisu and the Banshees. Like, that kind of a world. And then I got very into, like, French electro kind of stuff, like Daft Punk and Justice and, like, that kind of world. So sort of all over the shop, really.

[Sean Hayes]

That's. And I have a question about touring, because these people.

[Will Arnett]

I like French music, too.

[Jason Bateman]

Same.

[Charli XCX]

You do? What do you.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, I listen to, like, La Femme. I love that band, La Femme. I think that they're really cool.

[Sean Hayes]

Charlie, what's the. Okay, are we done with that?

[Will Arnett]

Thank you, Sean.

[Jason Bateman]

Sorry.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, no, just keep going.

[Will Arnett]

Sorry, man. I didn't know I was boring you.

[Jason Bateman]

She didn't want to hear about LA Farm anymore.

[Charli XCX]

I was. I was ready to go there, actually, but. No, well, another time.

[Sean Hayes]

No, go.

[Jason Bateman]

There are a lot of animals.

[Will Arnett]

They have a great song called Tatiana. It's an amazing song by lafam. It's just an absolute banger.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, yeah, no. Tell us more about that,

[Will Arnett]

Charlie. Before you.

[Sean Hayes]

I want to know the biggest. When you were touring, the biggest onstage flub or concert blooper or whatever that you just will never forget. Like something that just went totally wrong.

[Jason Bateman]

He loves the stage stories.

[Sean Hayes]

I love my stage stories.

[Charli XCX]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sean Hayes]

Like a fan that did something or a song that you screwed up or something.

[Charli XCX]

I can't. I don't know. I'm not sure I've had any really, like, disastrous, like, on stage moments where I've really liked, like, fall. I mean, I've definitely fallen, but not in a way that I found embarrassing or anything like that. But I. I do. I. I used to get a lot of strange gifts from fans, and I think those will always stick with me.

[Sean Hayes]

My.

[Charli XCX]

My two favorites were I got a. A. A douche, which I was asked to sign.

[Will Arnett]

You're welcome.

[Charli XCX]

And then I also received a jar of somebody's mother's ashes as a necklace.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, wow.

[Charli XCX]

So. And I did exactly that. Well, I went. Oh, didn't really. I wanted to be grateful, but not offensive, but also was terrified. So it was. You know. So those memories will always stick to me.

[Jason Bateman]

What about dancing and singing at the same time? I always marvel at how you guys don't run out of breath because you have to have a lot of breath to sing well, yet you've gotta keep moving.

[Will Arnett]

Not Even just dancing, Just moving around.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. I mean, okay, so, Jason, like, one thing about me is I don't really, like, dance. You'll go away.

[Will Arnett]

You have that in common with Jason.

[Jason Bateman]

I'm gonna do a deep dive, and then I'm gonna call you back and say, God damn it, can we do this over? But see, this is what's so great about these things. You know, we get to become smarter. We're less people.

[Charli XCX]

Exactly, exactly. Exactly. No, my dancing is very. It's sort of like a lot of, like, flailing, and it's very kind of. It's not very coordinated.

[Jason Bateman]

You're the Time York of.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. I mean, not far off. It's very kind of like. Like that. It's possession vibes for me. It's less. I'm not as, like, poised as most, so I get the benefit of being able to sort of just. Yeah. I don't have to, like, hit marks and do choreo. I'm more just sort of flailing around, so it's a little easier for me.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, listen, Charlie. Xcx. I wish I. Now that I know where the name comes from, it makes me love you more. Will, I'll. I'll clue you in later.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, I don't care.

[Will Arnett]

I don't care. I love it. I want to say that. No, and I want to say I'm so. I'm such an even bigger fan. You're. Yeah. You're so cool.

[Charli XCX]

Oh, thanks.

[Sean Hayes]

I listen. I listen to your music. I'm gonna go on walks all the time.

[Will Arnett]

I'm gonna listen to it even more now with just, like, more depth to just knowing a little bit more about you. I just think you were awesome.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, you were awesome. Thank you so much.

[Sean Hayes]

And just for. Am I getting this right? The moment is. It's out now. By the time this episode comes out. It's out now. I don't know.

[Charli XCX]

Maybe.

[Sean Hayes]

I'm sure. Well, it was released January 30th. Yeah. This is a mockumentary. Absolutely adore you. I think you're the coolest chick ever. I want to be you for Halloween.

[Charli XCX]

Oh, thanks, guys.

[Jason Bateman]

Thank you for doing this.

[Charli XCX]

Thanks for seeing that. Yeah. Okay.

[Jason Bateman]

Thank you very much, Charlie. Great night.

[Will Arnett]

Bye. Bye.

[Jason Bateman]

Bye, bye, bye. What a nice person.

[Will Arnett]

Well, she is something else.

[Sean Hayes]

You missed a real good first half.

[Will Arnett]

I know. I'm so. You got.

[Jason Bateman]

You got to listen to this episode, Willie.

[Will Arnett]

I can't wait. No, everybody, this is.

[Sean Hayes]

You're in the episode.

[Will Arnett]

The episode where they go. Where they go. You know what it's better without him.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. No, I told you.

[Will Arnett]

Talk about it. Talk about an impressive of artist and person and just life and just like.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, she's one of those. Like. What is that? How do you describe that?

[Will Arnett]

She's gotten it.

[Jason Bateman]

Probably not her first lap.

[Will Arnett]

No.

[Jason Bateman]

But you know, if you. If you believe in that sort of old soul thing, you know, like some people have been around a few times.

[Will Arnett]

Yes. And. Exactly. And you know, and it's not just she's not polished. She's so real and authentic. Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

That's why people are drawn to her.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. It's amazing. Amazing.

[Sean Hayes]

No filter. This is unapologetic. I love her.

[Will Arnett]

I know.

[Sean Hayes]

When we were talking before Willie about songs that I love her albums, especially off of Brat.

[Will Arnett]

Here we go.

[Sean Hayes]

Listen to all the hits.

[Jason Bateman]

Sure. I want you to go down the list.

[Will Arnett]

Did anything pop out to you?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, well, Von Dutch Talk talk. You know, Apple was huge. Like all those songs. But your favorite would be Brad, of course. But my favorite was on the deluxe version that I was about to. It's called hello Good, Goodbye.

[Will Arnett]

Smart. Smart less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbacoa, Michael Grant Terry and Rob Armjarf. Smart Less.

[Sean Hayes]

The Emmy winning comedy Scrubs is back. The beloved original cast, including Zach Braff, Donald Faison, Sarah Chalk, Judy Reyes and John C. McGinley, scrub back in at Sacred Heart Hospital for all new hilarious and heartfelt stories. And there's a healthy injection of colorful new characters, including a fresh group of newbie interns and coworkers, nemeses Vanessa Bayer and Joel Kim. Booster the new season of scrubs Wednesdays at 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu. This podcast is brought to you by Kleenex lotion tissues. Cold season is like the ultimate plot twist. Sudden, unwelcome and unpredictable. Luckily, you can be prepared with Kleenex lotion tissues that protect, soothe and moisturize your skin. Keep a box in the car or close by, especially on those cold mornings. They're not just soft, they're made with coconut oil and aloe for added comfort. Whether it's binge watching season or cold and flu season, Kleenex lotion tissues are always a smart move. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.