"Jon Bernthal"

Summary

SmartLess Podcast: Jon Bernthal

Hosts: Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Will Arnett
Guest: Jon Bernthal
Date: June 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this insightful and lively episode of SmartLess, the hosts are joined by acclaimed actor Jon Bernthal. Known for his intense, heartfelt performances across film, TV, and theater, Bernthal shares stories from his unconventional path to acting, his transformative experiences in Russia, his thoughts on parenthood and adversity, and his passion for giving back to his community. The conversation is full of warmth, wisdom, humor, and candid reflections on life, work, and family.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Birthday Banter and the Importance of Gifts

Segment: 02:41–08:11

• The episode opens with playful birthday wishes for Will, segueing into a comedic discussion about gift-giving among the hosts.
• The hosts reminisce about cakes, childhood, and self-care gifts, setting a relaxed and friendly tone.
• Notable Quote (from this segment):

  "I learned at such an early age, you always show up with. Even if you just go over to somebody's house to visit, you always show up with something." – Jason Bateman (05:23)

2. Introducing Jon Bernthal & His Path to Acting

Segment: 08:11–16:05

• Will introduces Jon Bernthal, lauding his diverse career (from The Walking Dead, Wolf of Wall Street, Ford v Ferrari, King Richard, The Punisher, and more).
• Bernthal credits his “accidental” introduction to theater while in college, thanks to an influential teacher, Alma Becker.
• Notable Quote:

  "I was getting in all kinds of trouble... I really sort of found theater on an accident. I was just an idiot... and my punishment was to audition for the play and I got into it... She [Alma Becker] saved my life..." – Jon Bernthal (12:04–14:36)

3. Experiences Studying & Living in Russia

Segment: 16:05–19:10

• Bernthal discusses his years studying at the Moscow Art Theater amid social and political turmoil, detailing the cultural intensity and reverence for theater in Russia.
• He describes the brutal yet beautiful environment and its profound impact on him, both personally and artistically.
• Notable Quote:

  "To be an actor in Russia was such a revered thing... it was a very masculine thing to do." – Jon Bernthal (16:45–17:49)

4. Theater War Stories and Broadway Expectations

Segment: 19:10–21:34

• The hosts probe theater etiquette, asking how Bernthal feels about backstage visitors after performances.
• Jon describes the unique dynamism of live theater and the awkwardness and intensity of post-show interactions.
• Notable Quote:

  "It's a hotbed of awkwardness. Even when people are clearly moved... you're so tired and you're in a weird sort of state." – Jon Bernthal (20:51)

5. Craft, Discipline, and Physical Toll of Theater

Segment: 24:15–26:26

• Bernthal details his vocal and physical warmup routines, emphasizing the endurance needed for live performances.
• Jason Bateman shares a story about sustaining an injury from repetitive stage movement.
• Bernthal talks about maintaining physical fitness through boxing and gym routines.

6. Finding Purpose: How Theater Replaced Recklessness

Segment: 26:26–28:13

• Bernthal reveals that acting became a positive channel for the risk-taking energy of his youth, which previously led to trouble.
• He eloquently discusses how performing gave him structure and a sense of spiritual connection.

7. Breakthrough with The Walking Dead

Segment: 28:13–30:00

• Bernthal credits The Walking Dead as a career and life turning point.
• He describes the humility and commitment of the cast and the show’s unexpected cultural impact.
• Notable Quote:

  "If you put six or seven people out in the woods and you say there are zombies out there, if one person isn't going 100% towards that fucking truth, it's like everything else is bullshit." – Jon Bernthal (29:03)

8. Fatherhood, Growth, and Embracing Failure

Segment: 30:22–35:22

• The discussion turns to personal evolution, the value of failing, and the parallels between parenting and acting.
• Bernthal emphasizes constantly remaining a student—never feeling as though he's “arrived.”
• Notable Quote:

  "The healthiest relationship I can have with this thing is to just be hungry and to not really be at any place of arrival...You're gonna mess up and you gotta own it and work through it...each one of those failings is an unbelievable opportunity." – Jon Bernthal (31:27)

• Hosts agree that having children brought new openness, humility, and perspective.

9. Parenting, Adversity & Teaching the Next Generation

Segment: 35:22–41:18

• Bernthal reflects deeply on raising kids, the importance of Adversity, and how his own risky past shaped him.
• He talks about intentionally creating "safe adversity" for his children—martial arts, outdoors, and sports—to teach resilience and compassion.
• Memorable Insight:

  "How do I teach them that yes, it is absolutely paramount that you are a protector, that you’re a provider...but also equally important, are you sensitive? Are you kind? Are you vulnerable?" – Jon Bernthal (37:51–40:17)

10. Building Community in Ojai

Segment: 46:23–50:32

• Bernthal shares his commitment to his Ojai, California community—coaching sports, establishing a theater, and providing mentors for local youth.
• He describes ongoing efforts to support public schools and foster the arts amid demographic and educational shifts.

11. Portraying the Dark Side – ‘We Own This City’

Segment: 50:32–55:26

• The hosts praise Bernthal’s complex performance as Wayne Jenkins in David Simon’s We Own This City.
• Bernthal discusses immersing himself in Baltimore—riding with police, researching corruption, and finding the humanity in a “monster.”
• Notable Quote:

  "The key for me was, how do you play this guy and not just play him as a monster? ...Even if he was in the middle of robbing a drug dealer... if any of his kids needed him, he would run home immediately." – Jon Bernthal (53:13–54:48)

12. Leadership, Service, and Political Ambition?

Segment: 56:01–57:49

• The hosts encourage Bernthal to consider politics, praising his passion and communication skills.
• He expresses belief in artistic service and teaching, preferring grassroots impact over formal politics.
• Notable Quote:

  "For me, I feel most natural and most authentic honestly, coaching and teaching and doing it in my community...I think as far as, I do really feel that what we do can really provide a service and can create real change..." – Jon Bernthal (56:52–57:49)

13. Upcoming Projects: Broadway, ‘Odyssey,’ and ‘Spider-Man: Brand New Day’

Segment: 57:49–63:56

• Bernthal teases major current and upcoming projects: starring in Dog Day Afternoon on Broadway, Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey, reprising The Punisher in Spider-Man: Brand New Day, and a self-penned Punisher special.
• He shares a heartfelt anecdote about making audition tapes with Tom Holland, applauding Holland’s “unbelievable conviction.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On transformation through acting:

  "Finding that, but using it, tapping into that same thing...but it wasn’t landing me in jail...it was bringing joy to people."– Jon Bernthal (26:59)

• On raising children:

  "Everyone needs to know how to swim. Everyone needs to know how to defend themselves. ...Under the umbrella of safety, put them in really, really hard, challenging situations." – Jon Bernthal (37:51)

• On personal growth and humility:

  "Doing this play, to be this age and at this point in my life and still be terrified is such a thrill." – Jon Bernthal (32:40)

• On modern American divisions:

  "People...waving their flag, full of rhetoric, but they've never been in the valleys...There's no access to recognizing decency in each other." – Jon Bernthal (51:38)

• On Tom Holland and Spider-Man:

  "He was like, I'm going to get––like, I am Spider-Man...He had such unbelievable conviction and belief, and he's so fucking talented." – Jon Bernthal (63:03)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• 08:11 – Will introduces Jon Bernthal
• 12:04–14:36 – Jon on discovering theater by accident
• 16:45–17:49 – Russia’s reverence for theater
• 19:10–21:34 – Backstage etiquette on Broadway
• 24:29–26:26 – Physical/vocal routines and the demands of stage acting
• 29:03 – The total commitment required in The Walking Dead
• 31:27 – On learning from failure/parenting parallels
• 37:51–40:17 – Teaching children to be both strong and kind
• 50:32–55:26 – Portraying Wayne Jenkins; complexity of corruption
• 56:52–57:49 – On civic service via art vs. politics
• 63:03 – Making Spider-Man audition tape with Tom Holland

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Final Thoughts

This episode mixes laughs with genuine insight. Bernthal’s grounded, grateful approach to life—his respect for adversity, commitment to community, and artistic discipline—makes for an engrossing and inspiring listen. The hosts’ trademark humor and candor keeps the conversation energetic and relatable, while Bernthal’s openness yields both great stories and real wisdom.

Highly recommended for fans of acting, parenting, personal growth, and anyone interested in what it means to stay hungry, humble, and creative.

Transcript

[Will Arnett]

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[Jason Bateman]

Ooh, what about the five star Waldorf

[Will Arnett]

Astoria in the Maldives?

[John Bernthal]

Are you gonna do this for all

[Will Arnett]

9,000 properties when you want points that can take you anywhere anytime? It matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay.

[Sean Hayes]

You know, on Smart List, the guess is a surprise.

[Michael Grant Terry]

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[Jason Bateman]

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[Will Arnett]

foreign.

[Michael Grant Terry]

Hey guys. Happy Smartless. We're gonna. We're gonna smart list the hell out of this. We're gonna really podcast it up today. I hope you're ready.

[Sean Hayes]

Put your helmet on, clean your ears because it's coming in.

[Michael Grant Terry]

Welcome to Smartless Smart.

[Rob Corddry]

Sm. Smart Lettuce Late afternoon late afternoon podcast.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, let's just start off by saying happy birthday to Will.

[Sean Hayes]

Hey, happy birthday, Will. Oh my goodness.

[Rob Corddry]

It's so crazy. On my birthday today, this finally. I was finally able to shit this out. I had this lucky horseshoe, this horseshoe up my ass the whole time.

[Sean Hayes]

That explains a lot, doesn't it? Yeah. Now what happens? Now that it's out of your ass, does that mean it's all downhill.

[Rob Corddry]

No, I'm gonna. I'm gonna put it. I'm gonna put it right back where it came from.

[Jason Bateman]

I mean the horse is still up there.

[Rob Corddry]

Shy Will. Little devil.

[Sean Hayes]

Did you get anything enjoyable for your birthday? Did your boys take good care of you?

[Jason Bateman]

What happened?

[Rob Corddry]

I got a nice. I got a nice candle from JB and Amanda. Oh, that's right. With a beautiful card. I could tell by the candle that JB had picked it.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, exactly.

[Rob Corddry]

It's.

[Sean Hayes]

You know me, I like my candles and my soaps and that candle right there from Jenny Kane is just about the tip. Is toppiest. It's a two wick candle, you know, three wick. You can't really control the burn. You know, you're gonna have a side that doesn't really keep up with the other side.

[Rob Corddry]

You're gonna get a weak side. You're gonna get a weak side on

[Sean Hayes]

a three week burn. Sure the wax is gonna flood the other one and then you're screwed. But kind of like for us, I'm a two wick burn kind of guy.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah. And so I got that. I got. I got a nice. I got a nice sort of self care thing from Shani. A little, little gift certificate.

[Sean Hayes]

Are you going to. Don't now. Don't. A lot of people just like G or Tiff. They let the. They let the treatments expire. You know, they forget they've.

[Jason Bateman]

No, not this one. By the way, I had to take out a loan for this one.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh. Huh. You once gave me a self care thing and there was very expensive panic.

[Rob Corddry]

This.

[Sean Hayes]

Is it the same?

[Jason Bateman]

No, no, this is a new one. I'll get you. I'll get you this one too. Jay.

[Sean Hayes]

You damn right.

[Rob Corddry]

This is tough one. We can't even go broadcast on this one. It's so really. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

She just comes right over to the house and.

[Rob Corddry]

No, but you will. Let me just say you will not complain.

[Sean Hayes]

I will not what?

[Rob Corddry]

Complain. Well, that's not true.

[Sean Hayes]

No.

[Rob Corddry]

We never know about you. But yeah, you know, I like to squeak. He's a real squeaky wheel. And then. And Danny and Dottie Dees gave me some nice books.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, that's nice.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

That you're going to read in one sitting.

[Rob Corddry]

Then I'm going to read.

[John Bernthal]

Now.

[Rob Corddry]

Do you. Do your.

[Sean Hayes]

Do your boys panic about what? To get the guy who's got it all or do they know what they're doing?

[Rob Corddry]

No, I tell them not to get me anything. I just want to hang out. So I got to have them the same.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, because I don't want people stressing about buying me something. I don't want anything.

[Jason Bateman]

I know, but people like to do it. I mean, we had this conversation ad nausea bad.

[Rob Corddry]

Right?

[Sean Hayes]

But as long as you say gifts, please, then at least it takes the pressure off.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, yeah, but I, I always ignore that. I, I, I don't know. I learned at such an early age, you always show up with. Even if you just go over to somebody's house to visit, you always show up with something.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, you guys still there?

[Sean Hayes]

Well, yeah. Treats you've always brought over. You know, you're, you're never without at least a cookie, right?

[Jason Bateman]

Either for myself or for others.

[Sean Hayes]

Hey, I brought you this. Don't touch it.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah, we had a great, we had a great cake last night.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, my God, that cake.

[Sean Hayes]

I saw the photo.

[Jason Bateman]

I was waiting for the guy to come out to say, do you want another piece?

[Rob Corddry]

I know, I know.

[Jason Bateman]

Like, nobody came out for a second.

[Sean Hayes]

The guy, they only, they, they only, they only cut up half of it.

[Rob Corddry]

Waiting for the guy. Were you waiting for Jen to say, can you have another piece?

[Jason Bateman]

Or yeah, yeah. Or somebody?

[Rob Corddry]

I was like, did they not.

[Sean Hayes]

What now? What type of cake was it? It wasn't the Rice Krispie one I love, is it?

[Rob Corddry]

No, no, it was a classic. It was a classic Duncan Hines yellow cake with chocolate frosting. But done in a way, it was.

[Sean Hayes]

Did you bring your own hot fudge, you fucking shit pig?

[Rob Corddry]

No, I did not. That's your move, by the way. Last year, my birthday, do you remember? And I brought some kind of, like butterscotch or something. And for the Sunday. For the Sunday to the restaurant.

[Sean Hayes]

Where do you think bit's coming from?

[Rob Corddry]

To Tower Bar. And so then everybody's giving me shit. And then Camel is giving me so much shit. And then the ice cream comes out and everybody's like, hey, can you pass that? Hey, can you pass that? No, it was caramel.

[Jason Bateman]

It was caramel sauce.

[Rob Corddry]

Everybody used it. Jp. It was hilarious.

[Jason Bateman]

Now, last night when you had that, first of all, what flavor is yellow?

[Sean Hayes]

Vanilla?

[Jason Bateman]

Is it just vanilla?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, it's a rich vanilla.

[Jason Bateman]

All right, fine.

[Sean Hayes]

Like a French vanilla is usually kind of.

[Rob Corddry]

Is it an angel food? Is that what it is?

[Jason Bateman]

I don't know what it is.

[Sean Hayes]

What did you call me?

[Jason Bateman]

But it was fun. You were Ms. JB. It was really.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah, JB. You were Ms.

[Sean Hayes]

Being There. Damn.

[Rob Corddry]

And it was cool. We ended up ask. We. We got the kids involved. Map.

[Jason Bateman]

And that was the time of that was the best thing of the night. Well,

[Rob Corddry]

we're talking. We're talking about anything, like, going on in the world. No. What's going on in the world? And I said, you know what? And the kids were at the end. Arch wasn't feeling well, but Abe and Mape were there. And I said, what do you guys think about what we're talking about and all this stuff that's going on, what all the grownups are talking about right now in the world and are you guys stressed and blah, blah, blah?

[Sean Hayes]

And they said, I say open up the straight. Isn't that what Maple said? Let's just open the straight and just let the oil flow, dude.

[Rob Corddry]

They both gave really good, thoughtful answers that were really representable.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Rob Corddry]

It was so interesting to listen to them.

[John Bernthal]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

It was wild to. It was wild to look over to both of them, who I've known since they were, you know, tiny.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

And have these incredible, you know, it was dope. Yeah. Incredible opinions, thoughtful, you know, thoughts.

[Sean Hayes]

They're both very bright.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, they really are.

[Rob Corddry]

Tell you who's bright is our guest. I. I am excited for our guest today, man. This is. Yeah, this is a dude that I have been such a fan of for a long, long time. And he's done. His number of credits are insane. Sean, you're gonna like this. Okay. He studied at the prestigious Moscow Arts Theater in Russia. Okay. And then he went. I'm pretty sure he went to Harvard and got a Master of Fine Arts or he did something like in there. He, like, study, like crazy theater. Has done a ton of theater. He's currently in a show on Broadway. I don't want to say the name, the title of, because you're gonna know who it is immediately. He's done countless, countless great performances in Wolf of Wall Street. He had a small part in Sicario, Baby Driver, Wind river, and then he had great, great parts in Ford versus Ferrari, King Richard. You also know him as the Punisher. He's gonna be in the Odyssey. He was the accountant. Accountant two. He's been in. I got to know him by watching him on the Walking Dead, but I loved him. In this series, we own the city, guys. It's Jon Bernthal, the great.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sean Hayes]

I kind.

[Rob Corddry]

John.

[Sean Hayes]

What.

[Rob Corddry]

What a. What a thrill, man. I'm such a fan, dude. I'm such a fan of what you.

[Jason Bateman]

So cool.

[Rob Corddry]

That's so cool.

[John Bernthal]

You say, happy birthday, Will, and. And.

[Sean Hayes]

And I have to just sing it, John. Sing it, man.

[John Bernthal]

I would sing it, but I'm trying To ch. I'm trying to, you know, save my voice for Broadway right now. Holy. But Will, man, I just, I want to tell you how much I, I, I just was blown away by, by, by your film, man. You know, beautiful dive into. Yeah, but just like about fatherhood and being a husband and being an artist and like, re. Falling in love with your wife, and it just like, I don't know, it was one of those things where, you know, like, I, I found it on like, the perfect day and the perfect time, and it just filled me with so much. And it really was your performance. It was just. So I reached out to, to Bradley about it as well, but it was just such a human, gorgeous, deep, felt performance. And yeah, it was awesome, man.

[Rob Corddry]

So thank you, man. Thank you very kindly. Thank you, dude. And I know you mentioned that you're saving your voice. John is currently, as you guys know, in Dog Day Afternoon on Broadway. Big hit with my, with my good buddy Johnny O is in that too.

[John Bernthal]

Oh, yeah, the best.

[Rob Corddry]

The best. Johnny O. And I mean, how's that going, man? How's the play going? I mean, it's a hit, as Sean said.

[John Bernthal]

I mean, look, it's been, it's so cool that folks are coming to the theater that don't normally come to the theater. I love. See, it's so many people that we see outside say it's the first time, not just that they've ever been on Broadway, but that they're coming to the theater. Like, buses are coming in from Staten island, which is so great. And yeah, I mean, not to be a total cheese dick, but I did. I kind of this thing, you know, sort of saved my life and I kind of came about it in Russia. That's really where I figured this thing, you know, that's really where my formative years were. And, you know, theater there is very vital and it's for everybody. It's not this sort of exclusive thing for the Gentry. It's for everybody. And it's a part of everyday life and it's enormously important to folks. So it's really cool. I think that this is just sort of expanding the theater audience and it's been a thrill. It's been a thrill to see how much people dig it.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you mentioned it. I mentioned too, that you don't. That you, that you were, you studied in Russia. And I'm kind of so interested because you grew up in Maryland, which I want to get. We're going to come back to Maryland because we're going to come back to we own this city. Because, dude, okay, but you ended up studying theater in Russia. I'm like, walk us through how that happened, man, because that's extraordinary.

[Jason Bateman]

It seems like. Well, yeah. And what. Like, what time was that? About what year was that?

[John Bernthal]

So I lived in Russia from 99 to, I guess, 2001. And honestly, I mean, it's something. You know, I went to school to play sports. I played football and baseball, Played baseball in college. But I was getting in all kinds of trouble. And really, if there was a dead end to walk down, I was walking down it and just running into every kind of wall. And, you know, I really sort of found theater on. You know, on an accident. I was just an idiot. And I signed up for a class, and I thought I was taking the class with 600 kids in it and sitting in the back of a theater watching movies. But me being the kind of asshole that I was, I signed up for the, you know, the intro to theater class, which was just 10 people who

[Rob Corddry]

took it very seriously.

[Sean Hayes]

Wait, you thought it was like, a movie theater?

[John Bernthal]

I totally did. That's what I heard. All the athletes were like, you have to take an art requirement. And I had no idea. And, you know, I've told this story before, but the first assignment was to bring in something that was deeply important to you and to share it with the class. And I had never seen such weird. I'd never experienced something this sort of insane of these grown people talking about an object that was so important to them and emoting and breaking down. And I'd never really been around theater people before. And slowly but surely, it came to my turn, and I didn't bring anything. I didn't have anything. Cause I was such a donkey. But I was going to fall baseball practice right after, and I had my catcher's glove with me. So I just launched into this story about how my mother had given me this baseball glove on her deathbed. And my mom's, like, alive and well in D.C. but I launch into this story, and I'm crying my eyes out, and everyone in the room is crying their eyes out. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Wait, wait, wait. I'm just. I'm doing the acting, you know, and, like, snot was coming out of my. I was just so upset because I got lost in the story. And so this wonderful woman, Alma Becker, who. My first theater teacher, ended up marrying my wife. And I. She, you know, kicked everybody out of that class, and she just ripped my ass for violating the. The Sanctity of her studio. But she's like, you know, you got something. And my punishment was to audition for the play and I got into it and I did the play and she was the one when I wound up getting in a little bit of trouble and I couldn't finish school, you know, I said, look, this is something I really wanted to do. And I had no idea sort of what the pathway was. And she said, look, there is none, but if I were you, I would try to get into the Moscow Art Theater and go, go, go study over there.

[Jason Bateman]

Amazing.

[John Bernthal]

Yeah, it saved my life. I mean, and, and being in Russia.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, but what, what, what part of that for? I mean, I'll show my ignorance here because I'll bet the Moscow again that that yeah, that school is a clear pathway to, to, to, to, to, to stuff. But what, you didn't know that. Why would you think that that would be. Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'll go to Moscow to figure out how to break into, you know, New York or Hollywood.

[John Bernthal]

Yeah, I wasn't really thinking about kind of, you know, breaking in wasn't really even in the, you know, like staying out of trouble and just finding this thing and really just this sort of blind faith I had in this wonderful woman. And it's just such a testament to how beautiful a teacher, you know, the role that they can have in a young person's life. And it's just astounding. She saved my life and I. And it's, and it's really cool being here in New York and being on Broadway because I do feel so much of. I'm very, I feel like I'm very in touch with that 18 year old kid, with that kid who found this thing and would have never believed in a million years you would have the opportunity to go out there, you know, in front of this kind of audience every day. And Alma is very much with me. You know, we lost her a few years back, way too young, but, but I think I just had blind faith in her. And it wasn't really a pathway to New York. I didn't know what an agent was, but it was that school, that place.

[Jason Bateman]

Wow. Did you. I mean, like, I'm an idiot. Like my perception of going to Russia now, I would never step foot in Russia just because of the, you know, then I watched the news, I might not come back. What was it like for you then? And what is it? And would you ever go back?

[John Bernthal]

Oh, I would love to go back.

[Sean Hayes]

This was what, 15, 20 years ago?

[John Bernthal]

Yeah, I Mean, now you can't. It was 99, so 20. You know, that's when I first went. I mean, it was a wild time. You know, people referred to it as the Wild west there. You know, there were shootings at the Duma, which is like their senate. You know, the Chechens were blowing up apartment buildings in town. It was completely wild. People were really still at the beginning of this, and you're like, and I

[Jason Bateman]

have a curtain at 8pm People. I gotta get through the streets. Yeah.

[John Bernthal]

But I do think, you know, for me, you know, a few things at play. I mean, I think I sort of considered myself at the time, you know, I was a boxer. I was sort of a, you know, considered myself a street smart kind of guy. So to kind of go into a world where not just it's a different Alphabet, they speak a different language, but it was just so wildly different than anything that I ever saw. And I will say I encountered you know, real brutality. There's a real brutality on the streets that at that time was sort of impossible. It will find you one way or the other. But also mixed with this unbelievable, just profound beauty and this reverence for the arts. You know, there's a statue on every corner of a playwright or a poet or an actor. And honestly, at that time in my life, you know, I don't know that I would have, you know, responded, you know, really to American theater training. You know, to be an actor in Russia was such a revered thing. And it was a very, for lack of a better word, it was a very masculine thing to do.

[Rob Corddry]

Do you think, John, sort of coming from your background then, like going to a place that had that. It's almost like in your face arts in a way. I mean, reverential and also like appreciation. But so, you know, that it was so sort of startling in that way, and it was so. So in your face. Do you think that that that actually kind of woke you up to it in a way that you might not have been appreciated here in America? Do you know what I mean by that?

[John Bernthal]

I do. I mean, look, I think for me personally, and again, I know it sounds maybe, you know, apologies. It sounds maybe grandio. I do feel like it saved my life. I was getting in so much trouble and my life just was making no sense. And I. And it gave you structure. It gave me structure. It gave me something to believe in. It connected me with something spiritual. And then when I went over there and my teachers were all folks who kind of came up in a system where public gathering was Outlawed. So for them to do plays, you know, they were doing plays in subway tunnels and abandoned buildings, and had they been caught, you know, both the audience and the folks on stage would have been sent away, sent to prison. But it was so vital to them that they had to do it anyway. It was religious for them. And so for my teachers to be those kinds of people, you know, they're, you know, I mean, it makes me

[Rob Corddry]

think, like, Sean, you're like, hey, any fun theater stories? Like, yeah, I once got shot in the head for doing a monologue. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

John, Sometimes I'll ask people who are in the theater on the show. I'm like, do you have, like, a staple? Hilarious. Like, something wrong.

[Sean Hayes]

Don't forget your lines.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, Like, Theater Story, you know, like a classic. Something went wrong, so. But I can't imagine.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah, some of the ones in Russia must be insane. Wait, John. I'm sorry. Jason, I just want to. We're in the theater here for a second. Jason, this is because it involves you. You're on Broadway right now. You're doing the show. The show's over. Do you have people come backstage? Go ahead, Jason.

[Jason Bateman]

Jason has this.

[Sean Hayes]

Do you want people backstage when you're done with the show?

[Jason Bateman]

He's obsessed. The rules of people going backstage.

[Sean Hayes]

Because I hear if you don't go back, you're being rude. And I figure if you go back, you're being presumptuous. That likes, you know, hey, you're famous, I'm famous. We don't know each other, but you probably want to say hi. You know.

[John Bernthal]

Oh, man. How do you answer this without getting in trouble? Yeah, I don't know. I, I, I, I.

[Rob Corddry]

We've asked everybody. Don't worry.

[John Bernthal]

No, no, it. Look, you know, it's such a weird thing, because I don't want to know who's there, and I feel like there's always a way that it's. The information kind of sneaks through. I mean, Eben and I have done a thing. There's a guest list. So almost every night. Eben and I, you know, I think last night we said Barack Obama was there the night before. I think we said we always make shit up just to crack everybody out. But I don't know. You know, it's a very. I really appreciate when folks come back and it's not an awkward. You know, it's really. It's like a hotbed of awkwardness. I feel like a lot of times, even when people are. They're clearly moved. It clearly was, but, you know, you're so tired and you're in a weird sort of state.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah. And that's just it. You're kind of obligated to make them feel comfortable. Cause it's your house, you know, they're

[John Bernthal]

in your dress and they're obligated to make you feel that they loved it, you know?

[Sean Hayes]

Right.

[Rob Corddry]

Jason. Jason, do you think that there's a world now, like next week if you're in New York, you go and you see, which you should go see. I want to come and see.

[Jason Bateman]

I can't wait to see it.

[Rob Corddry]

Jason, can you now, having had this conversation with John, do you find that you could, you could show up only

[Sean Hayes]

because we've had this conversation so that when we see each other, it's not

[Rob Corddry]

going to be awkward. We'll give each other that little look.

[Sean Hayes]

Like up here.

[John Bernthal]

I would want you to do exactly what you want to do. Like if you wanted to come back, I would want you to come back. But if you didn't, I would want you to feel so totally good about that, to just going out and enjoy your night.

[Sean Hayes]

I just, I just assume people want to get home, you know,

[Jason Bateman]

we'll be right back. This summer, if your group chat is throwing around, we should get away. Consider Scottsdale, Arizona. Sure, it's warm, but that's kind of the point because summer in Scottsdale comes with some very cool perks like luxury resort rates starting at just $109 a night. And you've got options. Epic family friendly resorts with full on water parks or quieter pool scenes. If your vibe is more do not disturb. Ease into your trip and get your Zen on with sunrise yoga, evening stargazing and generous summer specials at area spas. Or book a sunrise tee time at a world famous golf course at rates way less than usual. Plus summer is the easiest time to land a reservation at Scottsdale award winning restaurants. You know, the ones people usually humble brag about getting into. And there's no shortage of indoor air conditioned spots to visit museums, boutiques, art galleries and the Southwest's largest shopping mall. Visit summerinscotsdale.com and start planning your trip. Ready for a college degree? But your dog is giving you the side eye while silently judging your life choices. You need to check out Southern New Hampshire University. Their online programs make it possible to earn your degree without sacrificing sleep, sanity or Scooby snacks. And there's real support from actual humans if you want that. So you can focus on what matters most. Your dog. No, your future. Get the degree. Your dog approves of apply today at SNHU.edu smartlist. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first but didn't live up to the hype? Yeah, I wasted a lot of money buying a car when I was 21 years old. I spent way too much on it. It just. It never worked and I didn't know what I was doing. Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great, like impressions, but they don't see revenue. LinkedIn has a word for that, bull spend. Instead, you can get the highest roas of major ad networks with LinkedIn ads. Cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com smartless terms apply.

[Michael Grant Terry]

And now back to the show.

[Jason Bateman]

John, do you do any kind of warmup stuff with your voice? I mean, do you even think about where you place your voice and how you support it? So you can do eight shows a week and all that? Because you do. If you don't know how to do it, you do tend to. People tend to lose their voices pretty quickly.

[John Bernthal]

Yeah, no, it's a, it's a, it's a battle. And that was the thing everybody said going in, and I know, Sean, you know it so well. It's, it's, you know, it's. It's like, physically, that's one thing I sort of feel like I always have in the bag, you know, like the physical thing. You're not going to exhaust me that way. This is fucking exhausting. I mean, this is unlike anything I've ever done. But, you know, the, if you, if you do see it, you know, I speak in a much higher register when I, When I do the show, and I think that that helps. But, yeah, I definitely warm up. And, you know, Kate Wilson's working with us, and she's incredible. You know, she's like one of one.

[Jason Bateman]

I just did this show a while, just a few weeks ago called the Unknown. And in it every single night for seven shows a week, the open on page one, there's this stalker stalking me out. There's this stalker stalking me outside of the house. And I would do the same movement every single time. I would go up on the ball of my foot, right? I would go on the ball of my foot looking like I'm looking for the stalker outside the house. Look at this.

[John Bernthal]

No.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, no.

[Jason Bateman]

I have a boot on.

[Sean Hayes]

Walking boot.

[Jason Bateman]

I have a boot on. Because of the play.

[Rob Corddry]

You didn't hear about boots? Boots is.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, Boots is McGee. Because of this repetitive. Right, the repetitive movements that you do every single day. So don't you. Is any part of your body just, like, feeling that any kind of. Any kind of, like, physical whatever.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, can I answer this for you, John? You see, John doesn't mainline fucking Ding Dongs.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah. He's got tuna fish sandwiches. He's not, like, acting like a person who needs to be cut out of their house. You know what I mean?

[Sean Hayes]

His calf. His calf can withstand a little. A little press every day because he's

[Rob Corddry]

getting over 1100 steps a day. Okay.

[John Bernthal]

I will say I try to box or go to the gym every day. And I do think it really does help that you're doing something else.

[Rob Corddry]

For Tracy and Sean, the gym is a thing.

[Sean Hayes]

It's spelled G Y M. Okay, got it. Hey, Sean, what was. Without prying too much into your history and your flavor of trouble that you like to get into, what was it that you found about the theater? That was a bit of.

[Rob Corddry]

Oh, Jay, I thought you were gonna say, like, what was your favorite kind of coat? Cause I preferred Colombian.

[Sean Hayes]

Cause I don't mind a speedy brand every once in a while. What was, like, what did you find theater did for you that alleviated some of that?

[John Bernthal]

The cause I found that the exact same energy that I tapped into when I was young and sort of my way of, you know, my best friends on the planet are still the guys that I grew up with. They're my best friends. And I think that we were wild kids and we. And I think our way of honestly telling each other that we loved each other was taking crazy risks together and doing things that we shouldn't have done. And I felt that for me, the very same thing. The reckless abandonment and the high wire act, I'll say, like, the violence, let's just throw it all away, whatever this is. We're fucking going. Finding that, but using it, tapping into that same thing. But it wasn't landing me in jail. It wasn't landing me in trouble or getting kicked out of schools. It was actually bringing joy to people and making me find different parts of myself that I knew how to sort of access really well. But it was. I mean, again, without sounding like a cheese dick, it was using it for good. And it did. It saved my life.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Rob Corddry]

I mentioned Walking Dead. That was the first time that I feel like I remember seeing you on a regular basis in something. And I was like. I remember watching that show and thinking, who the fuck is this dude? He's so locked in. He's so Dialed like, this dude is. He's got something. Was that a thing. Was that a major turning point, do you think, in your professional career, Walking Dead?

[John Bernthal]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And just in my life in general at that point. I got married right after season one to my wife, who I met the day I got married home from Russia. She was an ICU trauma nurse. We grew up together. She's seen the worst of me, hopefully the best of me. But, you know, she's my whole life and had my first child in the beginning of season two, surrounded by people who had young families, you know, doing this work. And the work still meant so much to them, and they were just family and work and. But, yeah, I think with Frank Darabont and that show, you know, none of us in a million years thought it was gonna be kind of the juggernaut thing that it was. There was such humility to it, and people believed in it so much. And it's funny because if you, you know, if you put, you know, six or seven people out in the woods and you say, okay, there's zombies out there, if one person isn't going 100% towards that fucking truth, it's like everything else is bullshit, you know? And so the show was just such kind of total commitment right from the beginning. And, yeah, it's. I was just so grateful to Frank and so grateful to be a part of that show, you know? Yeah, it was definitely. Definitely life changing.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah, I imagine. Well, it's funny you say that. Yeah. Like, everybody's got. That show had such a great ability to keep the tension so taught at all times. Like, you were just, like, always on the edge of your seat. And you're right. Can you imagine if you had one guy just kind of dialing into the frame.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Rob Corddry]

Phoning it in. You know what I mean? That guy doesn't seem that worried about what's going on. Right.

[Sean Hayes]

Exactly. Hey, John. What? What? Talk about the sort of. That transition from how acting sort of was serving you in. In. In one respect early on, and then as sort of your. Your demons, you started to get some distance from your demons a bit. And it's really starting to fall in love with the. With the. With the acting and the talent you were recognizing in yourself and you started to shape some technique, I would imagine. And talk about that transition into. Well, wait a second. I'm no longer kind of that guy. I'm kind of really becoming more this part of myself. And this could actually become a career, an occupation, and I'm kind of decent at this and like, was there a point where you realized, oh wait, I'm kind of all in on this now and I don't really know how to do anything else. And I like that. And this, this is going to be it. Let's, let's really become this guy. And was there that moment or did he just kind of happen naturally as jobs kind of progressed? And, and now you look back and you go, wow, now I, now I am this.

[John Bernthal]

Well, look, I mean, I, I, I think that I, I think that there's something, I don't know if you guys feel it being, you know, with everything you guys have done and who you are, but I, for me, I know the healthiest relationship that I can have with this thing is to just be hungry and to not really be at any place of arrival. And what I love about it, it's the same thing I love about being a dad, is that the only thing that's for certain is you're gonna fucking fail. You know, like, you're gonna mess up and you gotta, like, you gotta, you gotta own it and you gotta acknowledge it and you gotta work through it. And each one of those mess ups and each one of those failings is such an unbelievable opportunity for connection and teaching and growing together for both you and your kid. And I feel so, I feel like it's the exact same with what we do. And I'm again just like very, very grateful that I get to do something that I can always just, I'm always chasing and trying to get better at. I will say at the time, yeah, for sure. And like right now, like doing this play, like to be this at this age and at this point in my life and still be terrified is such

[Rob Corddry]

a thrill, you know, it's dope.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, for sure.

[John Bernthal]

It's very cool.

[Jason Bateman]

That's why you do it. Yeah, yeah.

[John Bernthal]

But I will say for me, luckily things started to kind of work out for me at the exact same time that I started a family. And I will say it's just for me, my life has become, you know, really, really simple and clear. It's them and it's this. And I'm very happy with that.

[Rob Corddry]

And that's not a coincidence, by the way. That's not a coincidence. I think we all know, like, for me, I had the similar experiences. Having kids has cracked me open in a way that it's allowed me to be open to all sorts of things. And so I always believe that those kinds of things go hand in hand. And you know, it's funny, you were saying this thing about, you know, you're going to make mistakes. And I always think about, I remember watching this documentary about this, this soccer team, but the coach is very famous, Coach Jose Mourinho. We were talking to the team, the team kind of got down on themselves and they were down at halftime and he comes in, they filmed his speech to the team and he was like, you guys are acting like every time there's a mistake or the other team gets a goal or whatever, it's the end of the world. And he's like, the other team is going to score, right? You're going to make mistakes. They're. They're going to get a goal because they're trying to do the same thing you are. But the trick is what do you do? How do you cope with it? That's the thing. And that always stuck with me and I sort of apply it. I don't know about you guys. I think about that shit all the time in my life. When stuff doesn't go exactly my way, I go, yeah, shit's not gonna always go your way, okay? I can't fall apart when it doesn't. I gotta go, okay, now what? What can I do now? You know what I mean?

[John Bernthal]

And sometimes things go, you know, just the sort of proximity to real tragedy and real failure and, you know, these things, sometimes life hands you such a kick in the ass that will change your entire perspective. But also, you know, there's real tragedy that I think comes part and parcel with it. But sometimes you just get close to it. Sometimes it's just a reawakening or you get close to something or you think maybe somebody's sick and they're not. And I just, I feel like it is, is so true that with each, you know, sort of failing or fall or tragedy, there offers such an opportunity. And I do think, you know, primarily the job is now to be a parent and you gotta hold it together and you gotta show them the different lenses that, you know that just changing your perspective, how much can be gained by that?

[Rob Corddry]

Luckily, I'm able to show my kids a lot of failure. So it's good, they're very open with them.

[Sean Hayes]

How old are the kids? Kids, John?

[John Bernthal]

I have a 14 year old, a 12 year old, a 10 year old, and then my little 4 year old niece has come to, to. To live with us the last, the last few years too.

[Sean Hayes]

That's. Are any of them showing any interest in what you do?

[John Bernthal]

Oh gosh, no, man, no, no, no. I mean, I have.

[Jason Bateman]

They come see the play yeah, they've

[John Bernthal]

come see the play and they're coming again this weekend. But my kids are all, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're very into sports and, and, and the outdoors and, you know, and it's, you know, they have very full and beautiful hearts, each one of them. And each one of them is so, you know, such an individual. You know, it's there for them, I think, if they'd ever want it. But I think right now it's, you know, what I do is not too cool to them.

[Sean Hayes]

How do you. Cause I think about this for myself. I've got two girls, 19 and 14, and, you know, I'm. I haven't had a perfectly straight line towards where I'm at, you know, emotionally or otherwise. You know, I didn't do, you know, the perfect thing all the time. But I like where I've landed, and I don't think I would have landed in this spot had I not banged into a couple of walls. And so as I see my girls growing up and, you know, when they go through things that are not sheltered, I start to think, well, how would I react if they make a wrong choice? You know, because, like, I don't wanna be hypocritical. I like the way my adversity has sort of shaped me. And so I battle with that as a parent. You know, you want your kids to have a pristine, you know, travel. So how, you know, like, I'm sure your kids are, they've got.

[Rob Corddry]

By pristine, do you mean, like. By pristine, you mean, like, protected, like you want them to?

[Sean Hayes]

Well, no, but I mean, I think it's just a natural instinct. You don't want. You don't want your kid to ever make a mistake. You don't want anything yet, but. Right.

[Michael Grant Terry]

So I just.

[Sean Hayes]

I wonder if my kids ever started to experiment with some of the risks that I went through. Sure, I wouldn't want to be. I wouldn't encourage them to do that, but I certainly wouldn't be unaccepting of them coming to me afterwards and saying, yeah, I screwed up. I did this, you know, so I'm not sure what the question is, but, you know, I guess, would you. How tolerant would you be if your kids started to walk down somewhat of the same path you did, knowing that you came out okay, you know?

[John Bernthal]

Yeah, I mean, it's such a good look. I mean, it's. Again, it's like these are the questions where we're, you know, as parents, it's like, you know, we're it's such a blessing to be this obsessed with these people's lives and their well being. And I think adversity is such a important word. There's absolutely no way that I could do the things that I could do, put food on the table the way that I do if I didn't get the licks that I got and the bumps that I got and was in the valleys that I spent a lot of time in. And so I knew instinctively, I know with my children adversity is so necessary and how do I teach my kids the things I've learned, but also know they cannot learn them the way that I learned them because there was so many times, and I'm sure it's the same for you guys, where this shit could have gone either way. It was razor fucking close. And like, you know, and we've lost people. I've lost people, I've lost my freedom. I've been in situations where, okay, by the grace of whatever you want to call it, it just went a different way. But oh my gosh, like I've seen it really not work out. And so, you know, from a young age with my kids, you know, they were, you know, competing in martial arts. They were, you know, like, everybody needs to know how to swim. Everybody needs to know how to defend the themselves. Everybody needs to know how to be in the outdoors and how can you sort of under the umbrella of safety, put them in really, really hard, challenging situations where they can learn from. And I think, moreover, I think especially for my boys, you know, how do I teach them in this day and age where there's so few role models out there for these young boys? How do I teach them that? You, yes, it is absolutely paramount that you are a protector, that you're a provider, that you're somebody that can be counted on that people in a crowd, if something goes wrong, will you guys have the know how and the ability to be helpful? But also equally important, are you sensitive? Are you kind? Are you vulnerable? Are you open? Are you curious? Do you not judge? Do you do. Are you hungry for conversation? Are you hungry to learn? Are you hungry to. To be challenged by somebody who thinks, looks, feels praise to somebody completely different than you? Are you confident enough in yourself to. To. To approach any conversation but also be nimble enough to. To. To listen and to be swayed and to be changed?

[Rob Corddry]

And I'm not, I'm not John. I need your guidance. Jesus Christ. I need your guidance so bad.

[John Bernthal]

You know, it's all of it, you know, like that's what's so cool about it. And I do feel. I don't know if you guys feel this same thing, but I do feel these paths for me are really lining up where the work that. At least the work that I want to be doing, you know, really has a. It really informs this. It informs me as a human being. I get a deeper understanding. But also, you know, one day my kids will look at it and they'll say, one, yeah, dad was working his ass off. But two, you know, that there's a message there, that there's a humanity there that they see in all people. Even when you play a monster, you know, that there's.

[Sean Hayes]

There's.

[John Bernthal]

There's a little kid in there. There's a scared little kid in there. And, And, And. And that.

[Rob Corddry]

That.

[John Bernthal]

It's never too late. It's never too late to bring something out of the valley.

[Jason Bateman]

How in the world did you gather all this wisdom? It's what you. Everything you just said.

[Sean Hayes]

Smart fell.

[Jason Bateman]

Seriously, it's incredible.

[Rob Corddry]

Sean, he doesn't spend all his time watching below deck eating Swedish fish. You know what I mean? Like, he's not.

[John Bernthal]

I gotta cross that off my.

[Jason Bateman]

I gotta cross that off my list.

[Rob Corddry]

I mean, what are you. What are you talking about? Hello? He's out of the world. Okay, no.

[Jason Bateman]

Traitors. Traders.

[Rob Corddry]

Traders.

[Jason Bateman]

No, seriously, it's. You're just. That was just incredible. Everything. You just. Well, you.

[Rob Corddry]

You know, you went through. He went through the. He went through the fire. But Sean. But Sean, you. I mean, look, you. Everybody that I know here on the. On this thing, Sean, you.

[Sean Hayes]

You.

[Rob Corddry]

You came. You didn't have any. Nobody handed you this. You had. You came from a. You know, you had a single mom household. Your dad left, which we make fun of all the time. John. It's super funny the way he left.

[Jason Bateman]

It was so sudden, fantastic, and it was really wonderful.

[Rob Corddry]

And five kids just left them all. Just one day just gone. Just evaporated, just.

[Sean Hayes]

Tire screech.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah, just like he was like on this USS Enterprise. He just got beamed out of there. So. But I mean, Sean, you grew up in that and you had to kind of fend for yourself, and you found your way and you were a talented dude. And jb, you were out in the world working since you were a kid, and you had to kind of fend for yourself as well, like, you know what it's like. And none of us knew anybody. I didn't know anybody in show business. I will.

[Jason Bateman]

You had like, how many. How many maids and servers did you have to leave your house.

[Rob Corddry]

I mean we ended up reducing after the crash of 87 we reduced a little bit but at boarding school everybody was. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

[Sean Hayes]

Parking spot for all of them. You know, it's like.

[Rob Corddry]

But, but the, the point is like you, you, I bet you have more. It feels like John, what's, what's nice is you have real access to your experience in a way that's very that, that, that you're, you stay very in touch with it and that's great because you can kind of of because your kids can learn from that. And that is a thing that I try to do. I try to. Jason, like you were saying, I have those moments where I'm like trying to understand their experience, where they are, trying to identify with where they're at. Where I was at at that age. I have three boys, I have two teenage boys and I spent a lot of time going, you know, they're going through it, they're going through those years and I go like let them have the thing. Don't try and also don't make it about me. And like hey, when I was a kid, just let them have those things. But try to identify those moments. And it's not always easy, you know, but you try to do it as much as you can.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. We'll be right back. Any pet lover will tell you the same thing. All pets are a listers and they deserve a lister food in the animal world, that's a canna pet food. Have you seen what's in that stuff? Whole foods like pasture raised beef, cranberries and turmeric. That's way better than the food I eat. Those acana people never compromise. They make pet food the inconvenient way. Turn over a pack and read the list of ingredients. You'll be blown away. Akana is stubbornly good. Check it [e-mail] that's a C-A-N A.com

[Rob Corddry]

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[Jason Bateman]

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[Rob Corddry]

Ah.

[Jason Bateman]

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[Michael Grant Terry]

Back to the show.

[Jason Bateman]

John, do you have. Because everything. I could talk to you about all this stuff you were just talking about forever.

[Rob Corddry]

I love talking about John, do not give me. Don't. He's gonna try to go side chat. He's gonna try to go side chat.

[Jason Bateman]

No. Now, do your kids get. Do your kids feel like dad is overwhelming with all of those kind of teachings and kind of parenting, or do they actually listen to what you're saying?

[John Bernthal]

I'm not sure. You know, I'm not sure. Look, I, you know, like my oldest son boxes. I'm his trainer. I coach my. You know, I coach them in football and I've coached them in basketball since they were young. You know, I coach my daughter. The thing that I know they see is what I saw in my dad. And, you know, my dad was the guy that when people in the neighborhood, people around D.C. my friends, they all had their own relationships with my dad. When they were in trouble, they went to my dad. He was their coach. He was a guy that. He'd call him straight, you know, he wouldn't bullshit them, he'd help them. He always had everybody's back and he wouldn't judge. Let's work through this, let's get through this, and then we'll deal with the judgment and all that shit later. But he was the guy that, that could really be depended on. And so I think my kids have seen that, you know, I have real relationships. You know, we, we live in, you know, this small town of, you know, we live in Ojai, and we've been there 15 years. I love Ohio. It's such a small. Yeah, it's, it's beautiful. And it's, it's a beautiful community where you still can, you know, raise other kids. You know, you parent other, other, other people's kids. You know, kids come to me and, you know, I, I, I teach them how to box. I, I, I've been coaching football there for the last six years, and we have a theater there where the kids come. And so I think that the one thing my kids know is that it's not. I'm sort of the same with all of them. And if kid comes to me, it doesn't matter if he's my kid or your kid. I really, really, I want to give them whatever I can give them with while saying, look, I don't have the fucking answers. I hit every wall you can hit, but it's never, never too late. And let your parents love you. Whether you're, you know, whether you're, whether they left or not, whether they're incarcerated or not, they love you.

[Rob Corddry]

So Sean, Sean, by the way, he started, he started a theater, basically, like a theater and a theater festival in, up in Ojai. Is that right?

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, I didn't, I didn't know that.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

That's cool.

[John Bernthal]

Yeah. I mean, it's just, you know, in the town, the town has given me so much, and I love it. And, you know, since we, since my first exposure to it, you know, I saw something in the young people in that town, you know, 10, 15 years ago, where there was such sturdiness and such grace and kindness. There's a, it's yes, it's yes, sir, no, ma', am. But there's nothing repressed or surpressed. The kids are curious. There's a really strong onus of the young people in Ojai to get out, go see the world, go experience things, and then come back and raise your family there. And it's a really beautiful community. But I will say, over the past, you know, five, 10 years especially, so many folks have moved up there, and culturally, it's really a place in conflict because the tipping point has kind of happened. It's very, you know, we see it in big cities all the time. Definitely happened in D.C. where I grew up. But, you know, in Ojai, it's really gotten to a place where, you know, the public school there, which was a real bastion of public education, has really suffered because of the influx of Angelenos that have come up there. And so I just. I love that school. I love these kids. I love these institutional Ojai families. So we built a theater in an old defunct school building, and all the proceeds go to the public school theater department. And, you know, we were able to raise. Yeah. A ton. It was really cool.

[Rob Corddry]

Sean's agreeing to do a show there next year. It's great.

[Sean Hayes]

Good for you, Sean.

[John Bernthal]

What an agreement.

[Rob Corddry]

What a wish. To agree to something, you know, will always.

[Jason Bateman]

Will always makes fun of me because I. Whenever I go to, like, a party or a dinner, I want to leave right away, and I'm like, I learned it from my dad.

[Rob Corddry]

Look who jumped on. Look who jumped on.

[Sean Hayes]

Did teach you something.

[Rob Corddry]

Now, we mentioned. You mentioned D.C. and Maryland, and I want to. I want to get to. Because I. It was one of the. I. I. For me, it was a show that really. I. I thought, like, wow, it really fucking just blew me away. When you played. Was it Wayne.

[John Bernthal]

Wayne Jenkins?

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah. Yeah. On We Own the City. Do you guys see that on hbo, this David Simon show? It's unbelievable. And what's cool is now kind of just talking to you. I unders you. I can see that. Like, you brought some of your own knowledge of all that kind of stuff, and, like, sort of the dark guys who ended up staying on the wrong track or got on the wrong track and never got off in this, really. I mean, Wayne is a very compromised character. Right. And he does. And I think that somewhere along the line, when he started, he thinks he's doing the right thing. Right? Like, he thinks he's fighting in this, but he's actually ends up sort of going rogue or bad or whatever. But he sees himself not as doing that anyway. It's a very. It's a very complex portrayal, and I love that show. I mean, that must tell me about working with David Simon and what that experience was like. It's excellent, man.

[John Bernthal]

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. One is my heart. And. And, you know, it was such a thrill and an honor for me. I think. I think. I think first and foremost, you know, at that time, in the. In the wake of Freddie Gray and in the midst of. Of George Floyd and everything that was going on in this country, and for me, just Being so I, I, I think naturally, based on people in my life and based on my own experience, I'm. I'm so revolted by the flag waving in this country. The people on either side of the polls just waving their flag, full of rhetoric, but they've never been in the valleys. They've never been in the situation where they're actually rubbing elbows with the other side. So you can't. There's no, there's no access to recognizing decency in each other. There's no access for empathy. There's no access for friendship or for any level of understanding because you're just staying on your mountaintop, you know, from the, you know, just waving your flag. And so for me to go into this project, you know, that, you know, in Baltimore, which is sort of like right in the tip of the spear of race and policing at that time, you know, and get this front row ticket and also just to have the access coming in sort of with the street cred of David Simon and how much the wire, you know, in that city, that wire for both the guys on the street, the people in the community and for the police, like that is, that is like required watching. Like the cops that I know in Baltimore, they watch that every year to remind them that it's not personal, it's business.

[Rob Corddry]

And you guys gotta. Yeah, I would love to see. You've seen the wire, right? You guys have seen the wire, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Bernthal]

So. So for me to kind of go in there like that, you know, I got to go. You know, I rode out with those guys every night for, for, for three straight months and went on SWAT raids with the county SWAT team and the city SWAT team. But got to know Wayne, got to know, you know, that whole unit of the gun trace task force. So I made unbelievable friends and I was able to see, you know, I was just so grateful to really see it in that way. But I think more than anything else, man, and you know, look, he was considered, you know, the most corrupt, the most vicious, the most sort of vile police officer in the history of that city. So to go into the police department and say, hey, I want to ride out with you guys. I want to be around you guys to research this, this very, very ugly chapter of their life. I learned quickly with policing how other than the victims and the community that are just drastically devastated by corrupt policing, it's also good cops, but are just. Are terrorized by it and their careers are completely destroyed by it, and their safety on the street is totally upended by it. As well. But I think mostly for me, the key for me was, how do you play this guy and not just play him as a monster? How do you find some sort of. And it was interesting, man, because every single person who knew Wayne, it was the first thing I said to him when I first met him. Everybody who talked to him said, you know, even if he was in the middle of robbing a drug dealer or, you know, shaking a guy down, making a false arrest, no matter what it was, if any of his kids needed him at any point, if there was ever an issue with the kids, he would run home immediately. And it really hit me, you know, how can you engage in such corruption knowing that most likely this is going to have a bad end? Because criminality almost always ends bad. How can you be that attuned to your family and you're really doing one to support your family because you feel like you're not getting paid what you deserve. But that sort of conundrum and dichotomy really was at the crux of who I think he is and why he was so kind of torn apart. But he wasn't just a monster, right?

[Rob Corddry]

Well, yeah, no, he's compliant, Sean. You had a little bit of criminality. Remember that time you guys almost got a ticket? Scotty Devil Park. Well, you ran into Chipotle. I remember that, that story at Largemont.

[Jason Bateman]

I know.

[Rob Corddry]

Really?

[Jason Bateman]

Wait, When I was in college, I stole a turkey sandwich from a 711 and I got arrested.

[Rob Corddry]

Are you gonna play the turkey sandwich in the movie or you get died at David Simon direct?

[Sean Hayes]

Hey, John. John.

[Jason Bateman]

I'll read for it.

[Sean Hayes]

John, you're such a great communicator and you.

[Rob Corddry]

Sick.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, it's unbelievable.

[Sean Hayes]

You're such a great communicator and you have such a passion for community and country, and it seems like you do not shy away from opportunities for leadership. Have you ever thought about politics at all?

[Michael Grant Terry]

Do you see that ever?

[Rob Corddry]

I mean.

[Sean Hayes]

No, I know.

[Michael Grant Terry]

No, no, I, I, I think everybody

[Sean Hayes]

has that reaction anytime anybody ever thinks about it or it's mentioned them. But you look at our. I don't, I'm not asking. I don't care what side of the political spectrum you're on. But you look at our current leaders, our current, like, you yearn for someone that can communicate like you, and that can have the kind of genuine passion for people, for condition and community. And we need folks like you if you ever have the time. So you got my vote.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah.

[John Bernthal]

I vote Chase Otto. Be careful. But look, I mean, look, I Appreciate that. I think the people that know me well, my brothers. I have a brother who's a cancer surgeon, the head of oncology at UCLA and Orthopedics. He's like, that guy should be running for. That guy is. Yeah. But, you know, I really believe that what we do can really be effective. I just do in my heart. And I think that. That, you know, for me, I feel most natural and most authentic, honestly, coaching and teaching and doing it in my community on the one. On one. And I think, you know, and I think as far, I do really feel that what we do can really provide a service and can create real change and can really, you know, bring human beings together. And that's what I really want to do.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah.

[John Bernthal]

When you do it as well.

[Sean Hayes]

Well as you. You can.

[Rob Corddry]

Yeah.

[John Bernthal]

Yeah.

[Rob Corddry]

And he does it like. Like. Like I said, like in. In we own the city. Like, there. It is a great lesson in. In. In. In a lot of sort of really complex issues in that way. So it's. You are. You are. You are being of service. Well, like, through. Through your art. Yeah. You make smiles, and then, I mean, dude, you got so many cool.

[Jason Bateman]

He's not getting votes. He's getting smiles.

[Rob Corddry]

You got so many cool things coming. You've done so many cool things, and it's like, you're, like, accelerating, man. Like, you're just like, it's awesome. And I'm so psyched that everybody's getting to see you work in so many different ways. You've got this summer. You've got. Got the new Spider man, brand new days coming out with. With. Right. With the Punisher in it. And. And that trailer, like, broke every record when it came out. The trailer is so sick.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Rob Corddry]

And. And. And I'm not, like, a huge, like, superhero movie fan, and even. Even I'm like, fuck, this movie looks dope. And. And then you got. Then you're in the Odyssey, right? In Chris Nolan's the Odyssey.

[Sean Hayes]

Nice.

[Rob Corddry]

Can you talk a little bit about working with that? Because obviously, Chris Nolan's one of the greats.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, look, I had to slug it out there with that drip. Matt Damon.

[Rob Corddry]

Oh, God, talk about his squeaky wheels. What a complete.

[John Bernthal]

You made it.

[Sean Hayes]

You made it, though.

[Rob Corddry]

He's a terrible guy.

[John Bernthal]

Look, I think with Chris, you know, it's like. I think with, you know, I think you get to see sometimes people doing, like, exactly what they're put on this earth to do. And that's how I feel about Nolan. I mean, I think there's these stories again. You Know, everybody kind of going in. Oh, you have no idea how hard it's gonna be and how rigorous and how, you know, there's no. And for me, I'm like, let's fucking, like. I love that. It's music to my ears. There's nobody who's working harder on that set than he is. And the directors that I've gotten to work with, you know, like Denis, you know, Scorsese or Polanski or, you know, Derek. I mean, there's so many of them, you know, they're all so enormously different. But the thing that I feel like is uniform among all the greats. For me, I don't know if you guys feel this way, but, you know, they've done so much work. They know it so intimately well. But there's really an atmosphere of exploration and freedom once you get to work. And I find no bigger sort of telltale sign of mediocrity than people who. It has to be a certain way. And I could. Couldn't believe that within this unbelievable structure and this unbelievable understanding of exactly what he wanted, you know, he still both inspired and not just allowed, but demanded, you know, real freedom and creativity within every moment.

[Rob Corddry]

Like. Yeah. Do you find yourself, like, working with him and, like, in these huge pieces that you're doing? I mean, it's the Odyssey, for Christ's sake. And within that, there's, like, a spirit of like, hey, let's find it. Like,

[John Bernthal]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, I think in these films, you know, I. You know, I did this movie Fury some years back, and I did the Pacific, which was sort of the next in the Band of Brothers. And, you know, there's these movies sometimes where there's a group of guys and you're all just sort of like, slogging it out together for the thing, and you forge these unbelievable relationships, you know, and there's a group of men in this movie that, you know, were Odysseus men, were Matt Damon's men, and it was this group of actors. You know, they did eight months in, like, eight different countries, worked so incredibly hard. And, you know, what was cool is, you know, I was only on the movie for a couple months, and. But I got to really be a part of that group for the time that I was there, and that was such a blessing for me. I think that, you know, the best thing that this offers this life is the people that you meet along the way and the relationships that you get, that's what you're gonna die with. And I was so honored to Be a part of that group of Odysseus's men. And that I felt just a taste of what, you know, the real long, hard slog the adventure was. And, you know, that's my big. That's what I'm most grateful for.

[Rob Corddry]

That's great. And then I mentioned. Yeah. And then Spider man with Tom Holland. The great Tom Holland.

[Jason Bateman]

I love Tom.

[John Bernthal]

I mean, look, you know, like, I got to. You know, I have a Punisher special that I wrote that's coming out next week that I'm really excited about. And then I'm also doing the Punisher in Spider man and, you know, with Tom. Cause Tom was in the Odyssey as well. You know, I've known Tom since he was 17. We did a movie in Ireland together. I made his Spider man audition tape. Tape. And he made my Punisher audition tape go away. And I got to tell you, man, like, this kid, when he was 17 years old and there, like, everyone was auditioning for Spider man, this dude, he was like, I'm going to get. Like, I am Spider Man. And I was like, look, dude, like, mathematically, I just got to be honest. Like, I don't know, but, like, he had such unbelievable conviction and belief, and he's so fucking talented. But beyond all of it, like, there is not. There is not a better guy. Like, he was raised so well. I love his family. I love his better half. I'm so proud of the man and the movie star and the human ambassador that he's become. I love his relationship. He's really in love. They really have a great thing. I love them. And it's so cool for me, you know, now, you know, whatever it is, 10 years later, to come back and, you know, I spent the whole. You know, we did two movies back to back with each other, and I love this guy, and I couldn't be happier for him.

[Rob Corddry]

Oh, that's so good, dude. Well, we. We couldn't be happier for you, man. I mean, you're just such a. You're so great. And like JB was saying, you're such a great communicator. It's. It's just awesome to listen to you talking about stuff.

[Sean Hayes]

I'm so happy to have met you.

[Rob Corddry]

I know, man. Me too. Your energy is. It's just sick.

[John Bernthal]

Thanks, guys.

[Rob Corddry]

You've got so much going on. You got Spider Man. Brand new day comes July 31st. You've got the Odyssey, opens June 17th. And of course, Dog Day Afternoon on Broadway.

[Jason Bateman]

So congratulations.

[Rob Corddry]

It's just such a joy.

[Sean Hayes]

John, see if you can find a work ethic. Before we see you again,

[Jason Bateman]

I was gonna ask you for a theater story, but next time, I would love to hear just a tragic theater story. I. I have. I have tons of them.

[John Bernthal]

Me, too.

[Jason Bateman]

They always make me laugh really hard.

[Rob Corddry]

Well, we're going to see you backstage. I'm going to drag Jason backstage, and we're going to.

[John Bernthal]

Come on, guys.

[Rob Corddry]

Come on.

[Sean Hayes]

Get your ass out here, Willie. And drag me out of this apartment.

[Rob Corddry]

I'm going to come in a couple weeks. Let's go see it. The great John Bertho. John, thanks for joining us, John.

[John Bernthal]

It's such an honor, guys. Thank you so much. I appreciate you, guys.

[Sean Hayes]

Buddy.

[John Bernthal]

See you soon, guys. Have a wonderful night. Thanks for having me, guys.

[Sean Hayes]

Bye, buddy.

[John Bernthal]

Bye. Bye.

[Rob Corddry]

Guy.

[Sean Hayes]

This guy.

[Jason Bateman]

I mean, you know what? You know what I find. But he was great, Will.

[Sean Hayes]

I think I'm going to put him. I'm going to put him on the list with Alicia Keys, Lionel Richie, John Bernthal for.

[Rob Corddry]

For favor three.

[Sean Hayes]

My three favorite guests.

[Rob Corddry]

Yep. He's. I agree, man. He's unbelievable.

[Sean Hayes]

Or I should say, instead of. Not favorite guests, favorite interviews. Right. So we don't offend. That are my, you know, some of my favorite people.

[Rob Corddry]

Amongst your favorites.

[Sean Hayes]

Amongst my favorites. Thank you.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, there you go. You know, though, to be. And I really mean this. And this goes for you guys, too. I think you have to be.

[Rob Corddry]

This is gonna be hurtful.

[Jason Bateman]

No, I think you. No, it's a big compliment. I think you have to be super, super, super fucking smart like he is. And like both of you are to be talented. To be that talented. I don't know that dummies are talented.

[Sean Hayes]

I've met a couple, but.

[Rob Corddry]

True.

[Sean Hayes]

You're right, you know, with. Yeah. Without the. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, there's all kinds of different talent, though, too, Right? I mean, you know, I think it's clear that he's drawing on his checkered past when he's playing these incredibly complex characters and tapping into stuff.

[Rob Corddry]

He knows. Jb, jb and Sean, please go watch We Own the Cities on hbo. You're in New York for the next little while. You got time at night. Watch it an episode at night. It's not very. It's so. It's so good. I'm like. I found it, his portrayal, to be astonishing. Like, it's. It's really. It's really something.

[Jason Bateman]

I love that. And, you know, all the stuff that he's doing in Ojai, which is, you know, there's a. There's a Neighboring town just outside.

[Rob Corddry]

Well, when you get when you walk in, it's Ojai, and then when you leave, it's oh, smile. Smart Less. Smart less Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armcharve and Bennett Barbico. Smart LESSON

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