"Marc Maron"

Summary

SmartLess Episode Summary: "Marc Maron" Release Date: August 4, 2025

Hosts: Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Will Arnett
Guest: Marc Maron

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Introduction to Marc Maron

In this captivating episode of SmartLess, hosts Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Will Arnett welcome Marc Maron—a renowned actor, comedian, radio host, and podcasting pioneer. The hosts set the stage by highlighting Maron's monumental contribution to the podcasting landscape, emphasizing that the show wouldn't be where it is today without his influence.

Notable Quote:

Will Arnett [12:54]: "Today our guest is an actor, a comedian, a radio host, and a pioneer in podcasting... the goat himself, Mr. Marc."

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Marc Maron's Podcasting Journey

Marc delves into the origins and evolution of his groundbreaking podcast, elucidating how it began as a personal endeavor during a challenging period in his life. He recounts the early days of operating out of his garage, the struggles with monetization, and the eventual breakthrough that led to hosting high-profile guests like President Obama.

Key Points:

• Beginning in Garage: Marc started his podcast during a tumultuous time, using his garage as the initial studio space.
• Monetization Challenges: Early episodes relied on tiered donations and merchandise sales, as traditional advertising was scarce.
• Milestone Guests: Securing President Obama as a guest was a pivotal moment that validated the podcasting medium.

Notable Quote:

Marc Maron [16:58]: "But the Robin interview... it was completely different... more disarming and very candid..."

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The Impact of High-Profile Interviews

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Marc's interview with President Obama. Marc discusses the logistical challenges of hosting a sitting president, the intimate nature of the interview, and the unexpected moments that arose, such as Obama candidly addressing racism issues on the show.

Key Points:

• Preparation and Security: Detailed account of arranging Secret Service protection and securing the interview space.
• Candid Conversations: Obama’s openness and willingness to discuss sensitive topics without pre-approved questions.
• Public Reaction: The interview sparked widespread media attention, highlighting the podcast's influence.

Notable Quote:

Marc Maron [29:52]: "He was completely confident and lucid... but he chose, possibly deliberately, to say the N word on my show."

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Winding Down the Podcast

Marc shares his reflections on deciding to conclude his podcast after 16 years. He articulates the emotional and psychological toll it has taken, his desire for a more private life, and the legacy he wishes to leave behind. The discussion also touches on the deep professional relationship with his producer, Brendan, and how the end of the podcast will affect their dynamic.

Key Points:

• Personal Exhaustion: The emotional burden of constantly being a public figure and engaging deeply with listeners.
• Relationship with Producer: Acknowledgment of Brendan's pivotal role in shaping the podcast's success.
• Future Aspirations: Marc expresses his intent to explore other creative avenues, such as directing and acting, while maintaining his personal well-being.

Notable Quote:

Marc Maron [53:35]: "There comes a point... where maybe I'd like to have a little bit of a private life... without worrying about which pieces of my life I need to bring up."

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Influence and Legacy

The hosts express profound admiration for Marc's contributions to podcasting and their personal growth influenced by his work. They discuss how Marc's authentic and vulnerable interviewing style has set a benchmark in the medium, inspiring countless podcasters and creators.

Key Points:

• Setting Standards: Marc's approach to genuine, unfiltered conversations revolutionized podcasting.
• Personal Growth: Hosts acknowledge how Marc's methods have influenced their own interpersonal interactions and professional endeavors.
• Future of Podcasting: Marc's legacy serves as a foundation for upcoming podcasters to build upon authenticity and meaningful dialogue.

Notable Quote:

Jason Bateman [63:16]: "You inspired people. It's true. And you grew this medium so that dumb dumbs like us could do it."

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Closing Reflections and Farewell

As the episode concludes, Marc reflects on his journey, the challenges of maintaining relevance, and his plans to continue evolving creatively. The hosts share heartfelt goodbyes, emphasizing their gratitude and best wishes for Marc's future projects.

Key Points:

• Creative Evolution: Marc discusses his upcoming HBO special and new acting ventures.
• Maintaining Authenticity: Commitment to staying true to himself while exploring new creative outlets.
• Host Appreciation: Jason, Sean, and Will commend Marc's honesty, vulnerability, and enduring impact.

Notable Quote:

Sean Hayes [72:32]: "His gift is to just be able to constantly keep a conversation going, be interesting, never not be curious... He's always curious about every single person."

---

Conclusion

This episode of SmartLess offers an intimate look into Marc Maron's influential career in podcasting, his personal reflections on success and legacy, and his future aspirations beyond the microphone. The hosts provide a platform for Marc to share deep insights, making it a must-listen for fans and aspiring podcasters alike.

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Highlights Recap:

• Marc Maron's foundational role in podcasting and personal anecdotes from his journey.
• Insightful discussion on high-profile interviews, including President Obama.
• Emotional reflections on winding down a long-running podcast and future creative endeavors.
• Hosts' admiration and gratitude for Marc's contributions and influence.

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Note: Advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections have been excluded to maintain focus on the core discussions and insights of the episode.

Transcript

[Jason Bateman]

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[Will Arnett]

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[Jason Bateman]

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[Will Arnett]

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[Will Arnett]

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[Jason Bateman]

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[Will Arnett]

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[Jason Bateman]

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[Will Arnett]

1, 2025 terms and [e-mail].

[Sean Hayes]

Some people don't know where Kansas City is. I mean, what they need to know in Kansas City, it's not about state lines. It's about the people and their passion. It's in their food world famous for barbecue. They even have a barbecue museum now in their music. Home to a century of jazz legends like Charlie Parker and their sports, not just Chiefs and Royals. A killer women's soccer team, KC Current plus Sporting kc. And next year, teams from all over the world. Kansas City does everything from the heart.

[Jason Bateman]

Smartless is sponsored by SkinnyPop Popcorn. You know how in in life stuff doesn't like, really live up to the hype sometimes, like destination weddings. But you know what does live up to the hype is better for you and incredibly delicious. Skinny Pop popcorn. Skinny Pop uses quality ingredients to bring you the light and tasty flavors you love. The original ready to eat popcorn is made up of just three simple ingredients. So I don't know if this is a good trade or a bad trait. I like to have two bags around because I like to have my own. And then the one for everybody else, Skinny Pop hits the spot. It's salty and it's light and it's really easy to eat the whole bag. So I like to just grab it when I've, you know, when I've just come home, sit on the couch or in my bean bag. I don't have a bean bag, but I'm threatening to get one again. And when I do and I'm eating Skinny Pop. Look out, Skinny Pop popcorn. Deliciously popped, perfectly salted. Shop Skinny Pop. Now.

[Sean Hayes]

I gotta a dad joke for the day.

[Will Arnett]

You're going to start us with a dad joke today instead of ending with a dad.

[Sean Hayes]

Let's get the cold open.

[Jason Bateman]

This is the. This is the beginning. Okay.

[Will Arnett]

This is. Okay.

[Sean Hayes]

No.

[Will Arnett]

All right, format switch here. Listener.

[Jason Bateman]

Let's hear it.

[Sean Hayes]

How much room is needed for fungi to grow?

[Will Arnett]

Oh, boy. You tell me.

[Sean Hayes]

As mushroom as possible.

[Jason Bateman]

Welcome. Welcome. Smart.

[Will Arnett]

Less.

[Jason Bateman]

Smart. Smart.

[Marc Maron]

Lettuce.

[Will Arnett]

Sean, you have any opening bits?

[Sean Hayes]

I do. I do have something to share. What happened today?

[Will Arnett]

Consult your sheet.

[Sean Hayes]

I have no sheets.

[Will Arnett]

Really?

[Sean Hayes]

I have no sheets.

[Will Arnett]

You give no sheet?

[Sean Hayes]

I give no sheet.

[Will Arnett]

I don't give no sheet.

[Sean Hayes]

But first of all, Jason, you are. Well, I can't wait for you to come visit. But you are so lucky, Jason. Today in London and tomorrow, it's like the hottest.

[Marc Maron]

Not.

[Sean Hayes]

No exaggeration, like 100 degrees, right?

[Will Arnett]

And then the day I came, and.

[Sean Hayes]

Then they get there, it's 72.

[Will Arnett]

I literally just looked at that on the. On the way to this.

[Sean Hayes]

You're so lucky. It's.

[Jason Bateman]

Now, how many days are you. How many days are you guys. Are you spending over there with Sean in London?

[Will Arnett]

Shaw's.

[Sean Hayes]

Just three.

[Will Arnett]

Just three.

[Sean Hayes]

I love that Jason doesn't even know I know.

[Will Arnett]

I go where I'm told. In fact, I'm waiting for my wife to help give me notes on packing.

[Sean Hayes]

You know, does she make you a list of what you should pack? Like you're 10?

[Will Arnett]

She tries, but her big move always is to just kind of walk up behind me while I'm starting to pack and say pleasantly, hey, would you like some help? And I say, no, no, I'm set. Thank you. I got it. And then she'll just stand there and she'll watch me say, I don't need any help. No, no, I know. I'm just saying. And then she'll just start to, like, lob quote suggestions. And so she ends up packing and controlling.

[Jason Bateman]

What is she worried about, do you think? Is she worried that you're not gonna be. Have the right thing for the right sit?

[Will Arnett]

I don't think she's ever worried about anything. I think just her happy place is having just kind of like a nosy. A hand on. On. On all things.

[Jason Bateman]

Sorry. Hand on things.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

You both know this better than I do. She talks to both of you more than she talks to me.

[Jason Bateman]

That's true. That's true.

[Sean Hayes]

This is true.

[Jason Bateman]

I actually know more about your trip than you do.

[Will Arnett]

Yes. So tell me, when am I leaving?

[Jason Bateman]

I don't know. I know you're. You're leaving tonight.

[Will Arnett]

Tomorrow.

[Jason Bateman]

Tomorrow night? Yeah, tomorrow night.

[Sean Hayes]

Tomorrow night.

[Jason Bateman]

Tomorrow.

[Sean Hayes]

How do you feel about it, Jason? Do you get excited about traveling?

[Will Arnett]

Are you like, I can't stand it. I don't understand the concept of leaving the nest that you have deliberately created with all your favorite things to the extent you can get them right around you and in the right spot.

[Sean Hayes]

I'm super excited to see you too. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

I just don't know. I mean, like, the concept of leaving a place that you're comfortable to go to, a place that's completely foreign to you. I get the whole cultural reach and. Well, because there's other things.

[Sean Hayes]

But, I mean, there's. There's tons of stuff to do here. No, there's tons of do in London, but not in the South.

[Jason Bateman]

This is what. This is what makes you. This is kind of should feed your brain and feed your soul and go to different places and see different things from. That's. Look, I don't want to get to it, but it's kind of the problem with America a little bit.

[Will Arnett]

Listen, East Hampton. Tell us about what.

[Jason Bateman]

I go to Sag Harbor. I was there this morning.

[Sean Hayes]

Can I. Were you really?

[Jason Bateman]

I. Yeah, I rode my bike to the hardware store. I.

[Will Arnett]

Wait, you rode your bike from East Hampton to Sag Harbor?

[Jason Bateman]

No, I did not. I didn't do that. It was too hot.

[Sean Hayes]

That sounds too.

[Jason Bateman]

I felt very chorey today. Like, I rode my bike into town. I talked to some police officers, said hi to them. They were dealing with an issue. Apparently, there was a dog issue.

[Will Arnett]

Was a dog stuck in a tree?

[Marc Maron]

No.

[Jason Bateman]

Like, somebody complaining that somebody else had left their dog outside, but it was in a sunny area and was mad and called the East Hampton police.

[Will Arnett]

There's not proper shade for this animal.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. And these cops were so diplomatic about it because they're just like, what are we dealing. What are we talking about? You know what I mean? So they were nice about it.

[Will Arnett]

What would that be like? Getting. Getting. No, no, no. No shade, pun intended, being thrown on Hampton cops. But, yeah. When you decide you want to be a police officer, what is that? Do you say, I want to be a police officer in the Hamptons because you love the town or because you just don't want. You don't want the heat, you don't want the nonsense. You don't want a lot of crime.

[Jason Bateman]

I think a lot of them grow. A lot of the officers I've talked to are local. Like, grew up here. And I gotta say, honestly, to a person, every one of them that I've ever talked to and met has been super, super nice. And.

[Will Arnett]

Well, that's not shocking.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, yeah. They've been really, really nice. And they. Yeah. And that's kind of the consensus. They're super responsive. And imagine the personalities they have to deal with out here.

[Will Arnett]

And they're trying to. They're trying to nab those little girls running lemonade stands that are skimming. Right. They Gotta watch out for them.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Like what. What's their beat?

[Jason Bateman]

Skimming their beat is they do everything, you know, they deal with a lot of. Unfortunately, there. There are a lot of issues that happen here. People come on vacation here, so a lot of people feel like no rules. A lot of people drink and drive, which is a terrible thing. It's honestly not to get too dark. But my. The thing I like the sound. I like the least is the sound of obviously, an ambulance at night. And you'll hear it late at night because especially if it was somewhere way down the, you know, way at the end of the island and that, you know, that there's been some terrible accident. You read about it in the local paper the next day, and it's just absolutely heartbreaking. It's.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, that's terrible.

[Jason Bateman]

Absolutely heartbreaking. It breaks my heart.

[Sean Hayes]

So it's such a small town. Everybody knows everything.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

And. But also just like, you know, because people feel like, oh, well, I'm just gonna have four glasses of wine and get behind the wheel of my Rolls or whatever, you know, and it's sad. It's really, really sad. But also. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Has there been festivities for the. The big Jaws anniversary out there? Isn't that where. Where they were where they supposedly shot the film?

[Sean Hayes]

No, that was Martha's Vineyard, though. Well, that's close, though.

[Will Arnett]

Right? Right, right.

[Jason Bateman]

But I did see. I did see, see a couple days ago, a whale breach about. It was unbelievable.

[Will Arnett]

Wait, does that mean jump up and slam down to a belly flop?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, like a massive. Like, just. Just.

[Sean Hayes]

Are you sure that wasn't fill in the blank joke here?

[Will Arnett]

What fat person you want to take a run at, Sean?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, I mean, go ahead.

[Will Arnett]

You can fill in the blank.

[Sean Hayes]

God bless.

[Jason Bateman]

No.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, God. But I did have something.

[Jason Bateman]

Sean, you talk about breaching every time you have sloppy Joe, don't you? You're always like when you're making a run for it.

[Sean Hayes]

I sure did.

[Jason Bateman]

We got a breach.

[Marc Maron]

Wait.

[Sean Hayes]

But I do have a really quick medical thing happening. Or do you want me to wait till later?

[Will Arnett]

No, give us some of your coffee chat stuff.

[Sean Hayes]

So today, because I'm not feeling well, and so I woke up with a sore throat whenever, but. So I went to the.

[Will Arnett]

Wait, maybe there's something wrong with your cpap.

[Sean Hayes]

No, I didn't bring it.

[Will Arnett]

What?

[Sean Hayes]

I didn't bring my cpap.

[Will Arnett]

Truly.

[Sean Hayes]

Truly.

[Will Arnett]

Wait, I understand. Hold on a second, don't you?

[Sean Hayes]

Because I'm gonna sleep on my side or I sleep up now. I don't want to. I can't deal with it.

[Jason Bateman]

And what do you just get, like, duct taped into position?

[Will Arnett]

Hey, but wait, I've seen a commercial for a guy. He's in a. He's in a.

[Jason Bateman]

Let's lock him up.

[Will Arnett]

It's downtime. There's a. Yeah. There's a guy that's in like a circle, like a. Like a support group for CPAP dudes. And they're all wearing different flavors of CPAPs. And they come to him and he's just got a clicker. He's got a charge.

[Jason Bateman]

Is yours flavored?

[Will Arnett]

He's just got a clicker in his hand and he doesn't have to wear the hose. And so what is that? Have you looked into that?

[Sean Hayes]

No, I'm not. I don't have no idea what you just said.

[Will Arnett]

The dude looks pretty great. And you can avoid the duct tape.

[Sean Hayes]

Anyway.

[Jason Bateman]

Flavored. Like a watermelon flavor, you know? I mean, just like a little.

[Sean Hayes]

I would. Well, that would be. Yeah, that would be. That would make it better. Anyway.

[Will Arnett]

Anyway, so my voice is.

[Jason Bateman]

So you're sick.

[Sean Hayes]

So I go to this doctor at this place, and that was recommended. She was fantastic. And she. So I go in and I've never. It must be an English thing. I go. And she's like, okay, take your clothes off. And Scotty's sitting there with me. And I was like, sorry. And she goes, well, I gotta check. I gotta check you out. And I was like, wait, sorry.

[Will Arnett]

This is.

[Sean Hayes]

Take my shirt off.

[Will Arnett]

This is for cpapping.

[Sean Hayes]

No, this is just. I have a sore throat.

[Marc Maron]

Sore throat.

[Sean Hayes]

This is just like. Yeah, she just wants to check your.

[Will Arnett]

Throat after one night you go to the doctor.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, because they're gonna go in the other way to make sure that it's not. That hasn't gone. They gotta make sure both ends are.

[Will Arnett]

Does this person have an office or is it something with wheels?

[Jason Bateman]

This is in the park. Sorry. One more time.

[Will Arnett]

Carry on.

[Marc Maron]

It's next to the ice cream truck.

[Sean Hayes]

So I go in there, and she needed to check me out because I'm a new patient. Right. In England. Right. And she was, great. So I go in there. She asked me to take. I go, you want me to take my shirt off? She's like, yeah. And I go, my pants too. She goes, yeah. So I was like, this is so weird. And so I lay down flat.

[Jason Bateman]

Luckily, it's just a drawstring at all times. So you keep going.

[Sean Hayes]

So I lay down and she's checking. You know, she's the tap on the thing and the Tap on the chest and everything. She's checking my thing.

[Will Arnett]

And then she's fully clothed right now, right?

[Sean Hayes]

She's totally fully clothed. She lifts up my underwear and just goes, all right, I just need to chuck out testicles. And she grabs my balls.

[Will Arnett]

And I was like, under your underwear? She doesn't.

[Sean Hayes]

Yes, she grabs them with her bare hands. And I was like, wow.

[Jason Bateman]

What was she able to see through the dust?

[Will Arnett]

Did she snap a glove on at least?

[Sean Hayes]

I don't remember. I think she had gloves on.

[Jason Bateman]

Sure.

[Will Arnett]

You went into a blackout.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I did. I couldn't believe it.

[Marc Maron]

I couldn't believe it.

[Will Arnett]

And so what was the prognosis?

[Sean Hayes]

No, I was fine. I'm just running out of that.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, Scotty. Heartbroken.

[Sean Hayes]

I'm straight.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

The prognosis.

[Will Arnett]

So just a sore throat. You'll be fine.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I'm on antibiotics now.

[Jason Bateman]

I mean, wow.

[Will Arnett]

Okay.

[Sean Hayes]

Why does she have to feel my balls? Story anyway?

[Marc Maron]

Go ahead.

[Sean Hayes]

I just thought that was really odd. Like I've never had a child.

[Jason Bateman]

Hey, Jay, listen, you got something to look to tomorrow night. You're going to get a sore throat when you get to London.

[Sean Hayes]

I'll be doctor. I'll play the doctor.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, you know the. You know the drill now, so don't be surprised.

[Will Arnett]

Did you get like a bulk visit type of thing? Is there a punch card that I can use? One of those, you know, your free visits?

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I'm gradually going tomorrow again.

[Will Arnett]

All right, guys, today our guest.

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, it's Jason's guest.

[Will Arnett]

Yes, sir. Today our guest is an actor, a comedian, a radio host, and a pioneer in podcasting. In fact, without him, we wouldn't be here. Having released over 1600 episodes, 600 million downloads during his 16 year run, he has decided to put it to rest and move it onto the wtf, wtf. Here to tell us how he did it, and hopefully how we can suck a little bit less, is the goat himself, Mr. Will.

[Jason Bateman]

Mark Maron.

[Marc Maron]

Mark Maron, please, Mark, reveal yourself.

[Will Arnett]

So we didn't need to send you a microphone. Is that right?

[Jason Bateman]

You said. When you said we wouldn't be here without. I was immediately. I was like, it's Mark.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. Not Dax Shepard. Although we appreciate you mean Dax Shepard Marin.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Wait, you're the dad? We found him on some level.

[Marc Maron]

I'm the dad. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. You are the dad and the goat.

[Marc Maron]

Yes. Yes.

[Will Arnett]

This is awesome. This is.

[Marc Maron]

I did. I'm using my own microphone, but thank you for sending me the one I'll never use.

[Will Arnett]

I appreciate. Did you really? Send you one?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, they sent me when they were panicked. I guess they're like, no, no, no. Mark doesn't seem to know what he's doing.

[Will Arnett]

Well.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, they heard you were done with your podcast, so they sent him.

[Marc Maron]

So they sent me one of these of all.

[Will Arnett]

Bennett. Bennett. Rob, turn your mics on. What are you doing? Why are you sending a mic?

[Jason Bateman]

We were giving misinformation. It's like sending a hockey stick to Wayne Gretzky.

[Marc Maron]

Like, what are you doing? When I got it, I was like, are you fucking kidding me? What am I gonna. I guess I'll use this.

[Will Arnett]

You know what it is? It's our start gift.

[Marc Maron]

I appreciate it. I was surprised. We used to send them out during COVID but, well, we weren't as generous. We put them in a self, you know, you could send it back to us when you were done using it.

[Jason Bateman]

Sure. Well, we're just silly over here.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's. It's been great. I was listening to the opening. It's, you know, exploring the dark side of luxury problems.

[Will Arnett]

Super relatable.

[Sean Hayes]

That's what we are.

[Jason Bateman]

We try to stay as unrelatable as possible. And I think we're doing swimmingly.

[Marc Maron]

Exciting medical story. I enjoyed that.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It reminded me of like when I was coming. Coming up as a comic, you always had to do morning radio. And you'd be sitting there, you know, waiting for a break before you'd go in with this morning crew. Just figuring out a way in, you know, hearing what they're talking about and just panicking. Like, I got a story on that. I'm gonna start with that.

[Will Arnett]

That is the thing that I worry about with this, with this silly thing. Whatever we're fucking doing, is that you're doing good, but is. It's like Morning Zoo or whatever. Like whack. Even when we get into the questions and the stuff. Like, I don't want to be like a guy who's like obn and always just waiting so that I can make.

[Marc Maron]

Fun of and ship has sailed.

[Jason Bateman]

Sorry, buddy.

[Will Arnett]

It's supposed to be a conversation. Morning Zoo, I think that's what, you.

[Marc Maron]

Know, the medium has sort of birthed, you know, just, you know, 100,000 mediocre afternoon drive time radio hosts.

[Will Arnett]

I mean, right?

[Marc Maron]

It's true. Anytime I scroll on my phone, on Instagram reels, it's like three or four white guys talking about the last time they shit their pants as adults.

[Sean Hayes]

I listen to that. I listen to that.

[Will Arnett]

Mark talks. In fact, I think I've told that story Maybe it's either on yours or on Dax's. But wait, talk to us about that. Like, can you reflect? And we'll probably ask you a few times during this about that. Like, what you started is, obviously, it's an enormous business and path to employment for a lot of folks nowadays, so we collectively can thank you for that. But how do you feel that it's. Are you proud of this sort of industry that you've created, or is there.

[Jason Bateman]

Blood on your hands?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, I don't.

[Marc Maron]

I don't think. Well, you know, it's. Once you create the bomb, you know, you kind of wash your hands of it. Like, yeah, you're.

[Jason Bateman]

You're Oppenheimer man, you're Robert. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

You know, but it's morphed away from something that was really, you know, this one hour conversation or longer that. I mean, obviously Rogan still does that, Dax does it, but it's.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, they do like three hours.

[Will Arnett]

Jesus.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know watching that, but it's.

[Will Arnett]

Hard to do that really. Well. Well, of course. How.

[Marc Maron]

I don't think that there was a single way to do this. The only thing that I know in terms of starting it the way I did, I did it specifically, the only way really I knew how and the way that, you know, my emotions guided me to do it. And when we started it, there was no real podcast medium. There was a few of them around. It had been around a while. And the way I did it, the way it evolved, was just my style and kind of this idea of candidates, authentic vulnerable interviews. You know, I think it created a zone through which some people could do that. But I mean, it got more interesting when people were doing, you know, full scale radio shows or crime shows or multi mic'd, you know, guys, it was never. There was never a format other than a mic. So because I did it the way I did it, even when you guys, or at least two of you. Sorry, Sean, I'm sorry, join, just pile on. But, you know, when people were coming to my house, it was like, you know, where am I? What neighborhood is this? What are we doing? Is there a camera? And it was really. There was nothing binding me to any sort of style or context. But I think because of the reason, my timing was good cosmically, for once in my life, that it took off. So this was one way to do it. And I think if anything, my particular way of doing it made a lot of people think, you know, like, if that idiot can do it, you know, I'm getting Mics, so.

[Jason Bateman]

But also, you have to. Well, first of all, you brought it up. I mean, you're a comic, and you've been a comic for a long time. You've been doing it at the highest level for a long time, so you know what you're doing. You're a funny dude, and you have to be able to move it along. We're lucky it took three of us to do what you did by yourself.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

I guess. But the one thing that I was excited about was I wasn't beholden to that. You know, I'd done some time on radio, and once I learned how to talk on a mic by myself for long periods of time, that was a pretty big breakthrough. So that kind of served me in the podcast realm. But a lot of my monologues are not really funny. They're pretty honest, and they're pretty visceral, and they are directly related to my life, and it gets deeper sometimes than others. But I wasn't beholden to comedy. So for me, what it really became was engaging with a person without a real plan to see if we could get a conversation going and figure out where we met in terms of our issues, our problems, our lives and whatnot. So what I was really sort of hoping for was connection. And that's really what I think made what I do kind of different, that there is no such thing.

[Jason Bateman]

But you did so many firsts. I remember a couple things that stick out that I remember. I remember hearing before. I listened. Hearing that you got Obama on was really huge. I remember everybody was freaking out about, like, that was the first time somebody had done something like that, gotten a president to come on the thing. And then you did the live shows, too, of which I did one of them, actually in Brooklyn at. At the Bell as well. In. In addition to the going to your house. And. And that was like. I was like. I remember you getting the call saying, like, mark's doing this thing at the Bell live in the pie. I was like, what. What could that be?

[Marc Maron]

I was different.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. And it was different. It was cool. I. I was like, oh, okay.

[Marc Maron]

But the reason for that really was, you know, Obama was later. But the live ones, there was no way to make money doing this. You know, at the beginning, there was literally no way. I mean, advertisers weren't forthcoming. We were using kind of old terrestrial radio middlemen to get sex toy ads and audible. Our first ads were like, Adam and Eve. You'd get a free package of God knows what. And we had this other Advertiser from an older show. We did just coffee, but there was no way to generate income. And unless you wanted to sort of do a pay to listen kind of thing, but then you wouldn't build an audience. So the live shows were things we did separately and we created a different website so people would pay for them. There's no way to make money. So the live shows were kind of an income generating thing. I mean, at the beginning of this thing, in my old house, we were just doing a tiered donation thing. This was before WhatsApp platform where everyone. You get paid on GoFundMe. Yeah, well, not GoFundMe, the other one where you have a site where people can pay. Whatever. Everyone has them.

[Jason Bateman]

Patreon. OnlyFans.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, Patreon. So there was no Patreon. So at the beginning we just offered tiered donations. You gave a certain amount of money. I'd send you a T shirt and some stickers. And my house was filled with a thousand envelopes, you know, stuff in T shirts. Because there's no way to make money.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, my God, I remember that. I remember your assistant there working at a table, just fucking stuffing envelopes.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. It was. It was crazy. But the Obama thing, that was a whole other thing.

[Jason Bateman]

But I mean, that was crazy in.

[Marc Maron]

Terms of the medium that kind of put it on the map. It kind of validated how it came about legitimate.

[Will Arnett]

And that was a result of your numbers being such that his team took notice of you and suggested, recommended to him that this might be a good spot for him to hit.

[Marc Maron]

I don't know if it was numbers per se as much as it was profile. And I think that really, it came down to then that there was a fan in the Oval Office, I mean, an intern. I don't know who it was, but they thought it would be good. It was his last year, second term. You know, he didn't want to be a lame duck, I don't think. And you know, he thought it would be. Or someone in his world thought it would be a good look to kind of do this. And I remember when my producer, Brendan McDonald was like, Obama wants to come on. And I'm like, so what? I'm going to the White House. And he said, no, he's coming to Highland Park. I'm like, that's fucking crazy.

[Jason Bateman]

Walk us through that process. I always wanted to know that like this, because we had the opportunity of doing with Biden. Yeah, but what was that like? But we had. We went to him. And we went, you know, went through all the protocols and stuff. What was that like, them coming to your neighborhood, to your house, completely unsecured.

[Marc Maron]

It was crazy. Well, you know, at first, you know, I had a trip planned and I rarely take vacations. So I told my producer. I'm like, I don't know, you know, I'm supposed to go to Hawaii. He goes, no, you're not going anywhere. So.

[Jason Bateman]

So.

[Marc Maron]

Well, the thing was, you know, the first things we had to think about was the way we do the show, which is not a political show. I mean, I can do that. But we had. We had. Both of us had come out of Air America, and from the beginning of the podcast, we were like, we're not doing a political show because I don't want to carry that water. You can't really do politics with your own voice because you'll eventually end up just carrying whatever load it is of talking points for whatever party you're affiliated with. But the thing was, is we got to make it a personal interview. He did go to college down the street, at least for a couple of years. He knows the neighborhood, and we had to really structure it more than we did.

[Will Arnett]

Which college did he go to? Around Highland Park.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, at Occidental.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, right.

[Marc Maron]

So, you know, we.

[Jason Bateman]

We had a. Oh, so not on purpose.

[Marc Maron]

No, we had to structure it in a way.

[Jason Bateman]

That was for Sean. That was for Sean.

[Will Arnett]

Loves that.

[Jason Bateman]

Sorry, Mark. Low hanging fruit is still fruit for me. I'm so sorry.

[Sean Hayes]

Okay.

[Will Arnett]

Throw the baby some candy every once in a while.

[Marc Maron]

We'll be right back.

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[Will Arnett]

And now back to the show.

[Jason Bateman]

So they, what, they come two weeks before and they strip search you in.

[Marc Maron]

Well, here's what happens. So. So I end up going to Hawaii and reading his book. And in the meantime, Brendan, who is in Brooklyn, generally flew out to meet the Secret Service to create a perimeter. And so you get all these Secret Service guys at the house. And apparently Brendan was in the garage and he had a couple of guys on the roof jumping on it to figure out whether they could post guys up there. And Brendan was like, no, no, it's coming down. I had to ask my retired neighbor if we could put snipers on his roof. And it was like the greatest thing that ever happened to. He was thrilled to be involved. But you know, the sort of, the day of, the one thing that was scary is they put some sort of weird humming black box in the one spare bedroom. That was a small house. If you remember, it was like less than a thousand square feet.

[Jason Bateman]

I remember the black box too. Guys. Remember when we tried to put a coffee on it and they said, don't touch that thing? Why, Rob? Remember when we were.

[Marc Maron]

What it is, it's like if all communications break down, that thing has a align into some sort of, you know, a secret satellite network, Right?

[Sean Hayes]

Oh, I see.

[Marc Maron]

Wow. So they gotta put that in. And that was kind of, that was kind of the most menacing thing. And I remember like the day of wow. So the day of there was like at least 15, you know, secret Service People and then we'd set up tables on the deck there it was. My biggest fear was that that house had one toilet. And I'm like, where's he gonna go to the bath? What if someone needs to go to the bathroom? You know, I gotta clean the, the bat, whatever. So we set up a table with listening stations for the White House people, for Brendan, for whoever else needed them. So there was like four or five sets of headphones out there. And the amazing thing about Obama, that there was no pre interview. We didn't have to get any approval of any questions. He was completely confident and lucid and he knew what was, you know, he knew what he was getting into. But the funny thing was is that the Secret Service is coming in with the dogs and I got these cats and I'm like, hey, is there any way you can skip the house? I got cats. I'm going to put them in the bedroom. But you trust me enough to leave the cats in the bedroom now? Well, they said yes and they let me off the hook. But I don't know if that's going to get them in trouble. But I think they're probably out of the game anyways. But anyway, so I'm. We're waiting now. You know, we're all in a waiting position. My, my producer, he wore a sports jacket. He's very proper dude.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And they're in all. The Secret Service is there and I'm waiting on outside and how, I say, how are we going to know they're coming and we're to going, we'll give you a heads up when he's 20 minutes out. So what he was doing, he was flying from Beverly Hills in Air Force Two or whatever, the helicopter to the Rose bowl to park there, which is about 10 minutes from my house. So they're like, well, that's better than stopping traffic in the entire fucking city of la.

[Will Arnett]

So they said to go to Mark's garage.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. They cleared the street of all cars. Some neighbors were pissed. A couple, you know, the Republicans were pissed. But the rational people were like, this is great. They're gonna line the streets. So they said, 20 minutes out, we'll tell you. But then all of a sudden we see the helicopter. It's two ospreys that kind of, you know, fly in front of the helicopter and we could see him in the sky. I'm like, all right, well he's close. So I'm just waiting at the gate and the motorcade pulls up and there's this flurry of People coming up my driveway. I don't even see Obama. And then I see him and he just. He's in the middle of this CR. He waves like Mark. And I'm like, Mr. President. He walks up and he's like, are we gonna have a good time? I'm like, I don't know. But then, you know, we go into the garage. They only had one Secret Service guy, you know, at the door behind me. They had some sort of flak mat. That was another weird item that they actually left, and I had to get back to them. That kind of like, if there's an attack or something, it kind of pops up and protects him.

[Sean Hayes]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

But it was all, you know, it was intense, and I just tried to. We had to cover some politics up front because there were things unfolding. But then it was a fairly standard WTF interview. And the funniest part about it was when he sat down, you know, I said, so, you nervous? And he said something like, if I was nervous about this, we'd all be in trouble.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. He was pretty forthcoming, though.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Forthcoming enough. You know, he's a genuine person. What he was was very, very disarming and very candid seeming and, you know, willing and. And thoughtful. But what's interesting is that it was better to do a personal interview with him because he is kind of wonky, and if you get into politics, it can get a little long. And we only had an hour, so we were able to kind of do it. And then for some reason, he chose, I'm sure, very deliberately to say the N word on my show. And that.

[Will Arnett]

Really?

[Marc Maron]

And that. Yeah. In relation to, you know, he was like, you know, racism isn't over just because he can't say the N word. And he said it. So that got, you know, a flurry of international news. So I had to deal with, you know, news cruise in front of my house. But my.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, there aren't enough T shirts and stickers to handle that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, but. But my producer was very calculating in terms of the press. We did. He's a very smart guy. We, you know, we didn't engage with any of them. We just did. We did Chris Hayes and we did Terry Gross and. And that was it. And I don't hear from Obama at all. He's got my number, but, you know, I feel weird texting him.

[Will Arnett]

But, you know, I mean, look, the fact that you a. Were able to book him says a lot about the spirit and the content of your show. But your ability to get him to do A personal interview and to get him to be forthcoming really speaks to sort of, I think, what makes you so great at what you do. And are you comfortable trying to maybe kind of speak to that and maybe dissect that a little bit? Because this one hour conversation, there needed to be at some point a confidence from you about me just freestyling and then having somebody sit down and me just kind of pop back and forth with them and have a conversation as opposed to being an investigative journalist needs to be compelling. And I need to assume that that's going to be entertaining. What made you think that your hot takes on things and your personal kind of the way in which you can drive a conversation would be something really compelling? Because it is.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah. What gave you the right to think you could do this?

[Will Arnett]

When did that happen for you? Just because I know you've spoken in the past about whatever the right words would be about your degrees of social comfort and what fuels your standup and your cynicism and stuff which I share with you. A lot of that doesn't lend itself to being a conversationalist. Do you know what I mean?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I think how it evolved is that I am innately and almost immediately codependent with any personality that sits in front of me. So it's just by virtue of my upbringing. I don't know what. But there was the way it sort of started. And this is one of the reasons why we're winding it down is that I'm kind of all in. No matter what I do, my standup is provocative and personal and sometimes a little cringy and just my basic demeanor in terms of what I want to talk about and what I feel comfortable talking about. And my need to connect with people is sort of ingrained in me. And I'm willing to volunteer a lot of my. And I think that the conversations that in the beginning, I was literally having comedians over to apologize to them. So I, you know, for being a dick or whatever I thought my problem, you know, my issues were, or whether they were mad at me. So the style unfolded with me trying to get resolution and make amends and this and that. And also I think the way I characterize it is generally the first hundred episodes were me having. Having celebrities over to talk about my problems. So.

[Jason Bateman]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And that became a way, you know, it's very disarming when you offer yourself.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. When you pull your pants down, it's. Everybody feels kind of safe and like, okay, so I guess we're going to be honest. I love that.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Oh, when you pull your pants down, everybody feels safe.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

And confident.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. But so that's how it sort of evolved. And it's a need for me because I don't like, my preparation is just getting a broad view of who people are, what they've done. And it's evolved over time in terms of how I handle certain interviews. If somebody has an amazing, if it's an older person with a large bulk of work, I'll forego the really personal stuff to really talk about the work. But it all gets mixed in.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, let me ask you, has it changed the way you. I, I'll ask all, all of you guys and, and I don't know if I have an answer.

[Will Arnett]

You can say all y', all, all y'.

[Jason Bateman]

All. Has it changed? I, I'll speak for myself first. I think that doing this over the last five years, which is just kind of odd to me.

[Will Arnett]

Right. But think about that. We've only done 300 episodes, he's done 1600.

[Jason Bateman]

No, I know, I know.

[Sean Hayes]

Amazing.

[Jason Bateman]

But, but for sure. So, so, but for, for us for the last five years, certainly for me, I can only speak for myself that it has changed a little bit the way that I talk to people. I don't just mean people out in the world like, hey, I'm a fan. I mean, just like people in general. This has shaped a little bit how I, how I interact with people to a certain degree. It's not the driving, but it has become a big part of who I am now, having these conversations and talking in this way, for whatever reason, for better or for worse.

[Marc Maron]

Well, it's interesting because you guys are all actors and part of that, that craft, from what I understand, you know, about 90% of it is being present and listening. So whether you were used to doing that in your real life or not, who knows? But I mean, it is a tool that you all have to be present.

[Will Arnett]

And listen that's applicable to this.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. And it's a real thing that, you know, because we're all kind of self centered guys and you know, you kind of, you want to get your word in, you want to, you know, you're kind of half listening, but once you start to engage your empathy and your ability to shut the fuck up, you find that it is the foundation of connection.

[Will Arnett]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

And I think that does change. I think that I'm so afraid to talk now.

[Sean Hayes]

Keep going.

[Marc Maron]

No, you go. No, no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

[Jason Bateman]

No, you go.

[Marc Maron]

But for me, it took a lot to do that and some people still are sort of like, why don't you let the guest talk? And I'm like, because it's my show. So. And also, over years, you've got to, you know, when someone's going into a public narrative, and some of those are deeper than you can imagine. There's ways that public people talk that, you know, there's sometimes, I know, like, well, I know this story has been told God knows how many times, but maybe my listeners, you know, haven't heard it. But if it's something that I'm like, well, he's, you know, or she's, you know, kind of autopiloting here, I'll interrupt until I can get them off of that and get them into some other place. Place.

[Jason Bateman]

Did you ever get that thing? Well, first of all, did you ever read comments to. When you put stuff out on social, like to promote the show?

[Marc Maron]

I try not to, you know, I, I, but you know, it's kind of addicting. I, I, I don't, I don't check the numbers. I don't know what the. When Twitter was, you know, a viable thing, I would look at those and that would be upsetting. And it took me years to learn not to engage. I have an email.

[Jason Bateman]

I used to follow you on Twitter and you would sometimes engage and I would see the stuff that you would.

[Marc Maron]

Say, and a nightmare.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, it's a nightmare. But would it change? Would it alter the way? Because I remember I haven't looked in forever.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, it expanded my self consciousness, you know, which is just what you need to. Yeah, you know.

[Jason Bateman]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

You take in just random trolling and you're like, that guy kind of nailed it. I got to be aware of that, you know?

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, well, we used to have that. Exactly. And I used to have that early days, it would be like. And people, I'm sure still do it. They're like, I wish Arnett would shut the fuck up. Why is he talking? Or why is he interrupting, by the way? Turn it off.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, turn it off.

[Marc Maron]

As opposed to like, you know, honor Hawkwind 2's comments about you. Yeah, you know.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Some guy with four followers in the uk, you're like, oh, geez, I gotta reassess my whole life with some idiot sitting at a computer.

[Sean Hayes]

Exactly.

[Marc Maron]

There is a sense for some reason, no matter how old you are, we're older. But you know, you see one comment, you know, on a social media platform and some part of your brain goes, the entire Internet thinks I suck. And it's like one idiot. But still, if it's a bad morning, you know, you gotta fight the urge.

[Will Arnett]

You know, hey, so, Mark, so when you started wtf, you'd obviously had. I used to listen to you on Air America all the time, and you'd done a bunch of other things. What made you take us back to what the landscape was for the medium of podcasting? Like, what made you think that there was even money there, that there was an avenue there?

[Marc Maron]

I'm not a money guy. For better or for worse, I ended up with some. But it's never been my driving motivation. My motivation with comedy and with this has always been like, I want to be seen and heard because I don't know who I am. Yeah, right. So I am building a sense of self here, and I want you all to be involved. But at the beginning, we had Brendan and I. Air America collapsed, and you know, and we, you know, I got pushed out, you know, to la and I did an evening show that no one listened to for a while, but then it just went away. And, you know, like, at the same time, I was going through kind of a miserable divorce. And there was an outreach from Air America. They're like, we want to pull you back in to do a streaming show. And this is before streaming. This is like 2007. No one knew what streaming was, so I'm like, fine. And I said, can you give me this amount of money so I can pay her off so I can get my life back? So they gave me this money to pay her off, and then they gave me this job at Air America doing a streaming show with Sam Cedar that no one could really watch.

[Jason Bateman]

Sam Cedar.

[Will Arnett]

Love Sam Cedar.

[Jason Bateman]

I haven't seen him in so long.

[Marc Maron]

Anyway, so it was me and Cedar doing this show that crapped out in a year, and we knew it would. And I was, like, devastated and heartbroken, so I was kind of useless. But we were at the studios at Air America, that version of it, which was a very kind of broken, broken down version. And once our contract was up, they fired us, but we still had two months on the contract. And being good liberals, they're like, well, you guys can use the offices, which is unheard of when you do a radio job. They usually don't let him near the mics, give him, take away his card and get him out. But they didn't.

[Will Arnett]

Didn't Jeanine Garofalo have a show on Air America as well?

[Marc Maron]

Not then, no. That was the original one. But this was when they had, like, Montel Williams and it was. And. And who's that other guy? Lionel, that weirdo. And we were just in this office doing a streaming show, and so we're out of a job. And I said to Brendan, my producer, I said, look, man, there are these podcasts. There's a few of them. Carolla had moved his radio show into the podcast form, but it was really just a radio show, I think. Who was around? Jimmy Pardo.

[Jason Bateman]

Ricky was doing one like Drewvish was. Every once in a while, kind of.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, he was around. But there was only about five that had any profile, really. Five or six pre Rogan.

[Will Arnett]

And it came, and you could only find it on the Apple Ipod itself, which is where it gets its name. Podcasting. Right.

[Marc Maron]

Well, that's what they. That's the thing, is that, you know, Apple, at that time, I said to.

[Sean Hayes]

Brendan, I didn't know that either.

[Marc Maron]

Can you figure out how to do this? And maybe we should do it. And at that time, Apple just wanted anybody with a name to do them, and they'd get behind you, because it's not a platform as much as it is just like, it's not a server.

[Will Arnett]

It was part of the thing to, like, actually sell the hardware. The ipod itself, you could only get it on. On this next. Exactly. New device that they were launching.

[Marc Maron]

That's right. So they kind of got behind us, and we were kind of.

[Jason Bateman]

That's the first thing I've ever learned from Jason.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, Joy. It's all about that, dude. Same with Apple tv. You know, it's like, that's just about getting people to get Apple tv ultimately buy hardware.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Wow. So we started, you know, kind of going in after hours. We had cards, we knew the night tech, and we were bringing guests up the freight elevator. And it wasn't really the same show at the beginning, but it was all just sort of. I needed to keep doing something. I thought my comedy career was nowhere. I certainly wasn't acting. And after, I didn't know what to do with my life. So it was kind of a Hail Mary, but there was no way to make money.

[Will Arnett]

It must have been scary. Was it a scary time, or were you kind of comfortable with your set in life?

[Marc Maron]

Well, I knew that for whatever reason, I was good on these mics. Cause I knew that and Brendan knew that as well, that there was a way. Who knows why anyone's gonna be good on these? But there was a way I kind of approached it that was very sort of immediate and honest and sort of searching.

[Will Arnett]

Did it feel like your last shot?

[Marc Maron]

I guess is my Yeah, I mean, like, I used to make a joke about it that when I moved out to LA and I set the mics up in the garage, I was like, this is the same garage I thought about killing myself in. But I had no expectations. There was no money expectation. It was just me trying to do something and then, you know, through weird timing and just, you know, trying to. To focus on building a social media presence, getting people who have that on the show. And then because the celebrity press had become kind of anemic, you know, they. People were locking in because I was doing their job for them. So Vulture was there.

[Jason Bateman]

What was the moment? What was the moment where you, like, looked at Brendan or looked at yourself and said, hey, we have something here.

[Will Arnett]

We have some traffic on social media. People are listening to the show.

[Marc Maron]

That was starting to happen, you know, because Vulture picked up on it pretty early. And then I think when we had. When I went up to the Bay Area to interview Robin Williams, there was a couple of pretty big shows. I mean, we had fairly big people, social media wise. But I think the Robin interview, because it had never been done before, before that or after. I mean, when he passed, a lot of people were using pieces of that interview because it was a rare thing, and it was hard to get him, and he was very protected and very insulated in terms of. Of how we were gonna do it. And ultimately I ended up driving up there. I did a lot of those kind of interviews early on where I talk in the car on the way, but when I got up there, it was just him and his house and an assistant. And I think that people didn't realize when. If Robin was in front of more than two people or two, at least it was gonna be a show. So when it was just one guy and also a comic and also a guy willing to connect and talk, it was a completely different. Different sort of Robin experience. But if there were one other person there, it would have been. It would have been wrong because he would have just started jumping around and improvising. So. So I think that one really was. Was a big interview in terms of, you know, because people were hearing a.

[Will Arnett]

Quality from him that they were not. We're not used to.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, never. It was quite. It was. It was. It was pretty insane, man. Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

We'll be right back.

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[Will Arnett]

All right, back to the show.

[Sean Hayes]

And Mark, now that you've done it for so long and I mean it's so impressive, I think Jason said 1600 episodes or something like that and it's become part of your identity and all you've done all these years and now you're wrapping it up. Talk about that. Are you gonna miss it? Are you going to think like, well who am I now and what do I do?

[Marc Maron]

I think, you know, it's a weird thing with the ego in terms of the world we live in. And you know, what anyone considers relevance or irrelevance or I was talking to Owen Wilson the other day about it cause I'm on that show with him and we were talking about stopping the podcast and he quoted Some Salinger quote that was like, I don't have the courage to be just unknown or just an average person.

[Sean Hayes]

That's interesting.

[Marc Maron]

But I think, like, what's happening is the show has always really been about the arc of my life on the base level. It's been about me and, you know, and I talk to people. And I think at this point, you know, because we put the amount of work we do, Brendan and I, it's just always been the two of us. And he's a very specific, very gifted audio producer. It takes a lot of time. Time to put these shows together twice a week. And. And people. It's. It's. People don't know that, but, you know, sometimes he'll spend, like, hours with an interview, you know, kind of, you know, finding a theme, trimming it, you know, maybe moving things around. It's so funny how many people have listened to their interview and are like, God, I really nailed that thing. It's, like, took Brendan four hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Well, we feel the same way about Rob and Bennett and the guys who. Michael, Terry who work with us, they. They say the same thing. And. And they're really good at one.

[Sean Hayes]

The best in the biz.

[Jason Bateman]

You know what I mean?

[Marc Maron]

Let me answer that real quick.

[Will Arnett]

Will.

[Marc Maron]

Will, let me just answer. Sean real quick.

[Jason Bateman]

Okay.

[Marc Maron]

I apologize.

[Jason Bateman]

I'm known for interrupting according to.

[Marc Maron]

That's okay. Me too.

[Jason Bateman]

The guy from England.

[Marc Maron]

But the thing is, is, like, yeah, I am nervous about the time, but viewing it as a piece of work as opposed to content and, you know, sort of really assessing the need to keep plowing along just because you can, you know, was sort of a conversation. We got a deal with a platform, acast and that. We were in that for years, and it kind of made us, you know, the money that I think we deserved after working on it so long and now that's coming to an end. And we were talking before that about winding it down, and our agreement has always been like, well, I'm gonna go. As long as you go. Whoever cries uncle first, then we'll just honor that. But the truth is, I'm. There comes a point with me, because of the way I do it, where maybe I'd like to have a little bit of a private life. Maybe I'd like to not worry about. About which pieces and bits of my life or past I need to kind of bring up in order to satisfy what I do and the audience I've created.

[Will Arnett]

That's interesting.

[Marc Maron]

Who find a lot of comfort and a lot of. I'VE helped a lot of people unknowingly get sober, not commit suicide, deal with authoritarianism. The way I do it. It was very comforting to a very specific audience. So there's part of me that thinks, like, why I owe them, and they kind of live in your head, and that gets a little emotionally exhausting. So I think that by viewing it as a amazing piece of work, you know, of 16 years of a thing that never diminished in its quality and always had the arc of me and was always interesting and engaging every episode, that to sort of say, we're done with this part of our lives, it kind of is good for the legacy of the thing as opposed to being one of those people where it's like, is Marin still doing it? That's crazy. You don't want to be that guy.

[Jason Bateman]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

You know? Right, right, right.

[Jason Bateman]

But do you like. What I was gonna say was, you know, when you hear, like, a. You know, an athlete retires, and they say, you're gonna miss the game. And what's funny is, they always say, you know, I'm gonna miss the guys. I'm gonna miss being in the locker room. I'm gonna miss the people that I were. You know, I don't know anything about your relationship with Brendan. You've mentioned him a bunch, and he was obviously integral to your show. I mean, that relationship is now gonna change. Have you guys talked about that, how that's gonna change?

[Marc Maron]

Well, you know, it's weird. I've been working with him since he was 24, and now he's 44.

[Jason Bateman]

Wow.

[Marc Maron]

And, you know, we met at Air America, and he was an associate producer, so. And the very odd thing about Brendan and I is that he's. He's actually, you know, part of my brain. Like, you know, I do these interviews, and then I send them to him, and my memory of them is of whatever I remember that day, but he spends hours with all them, so I rely on him to remember things. And also, he's a very brilliant guy, you know, with politics and film. He's really the smartest guy I know. And he's a great producer because he helps me frame things that I'm thinking, you know, which is usually intuitive, and then, you know, he can give it depth. But over the years, it's always been a professional relationship. We're not really in each other's lives. He's more in mine because he hears me talk about it all the time. But we have, you know, it's one of the only relationships where the boundaries are held there's full respect there. We're 50, 50 partners. And I don't lean on him for personal stuff unless it's really pressing. So. And we've never had a fight, you know, since I've known him once. And it's just so that relationship, he'll be there for me if I need him, but he needs a break. But I just think, like, what you're saying is true, though. This show is a big part of my social life. It's a big part of my spiritual and soul life in terms of engaging with other humans who are creative humans and really talking about life, which I think is important to do in one's life. But I was doing it also as my job and outlet. I am going to miss that. And I imagine that I should really give a heads up to my two friends that it's going to be hard for them for a little while.

[Sean Hayes]

Do you feel that?

[Jason Bateman]

Do you feel that you're leaving Marc Maron in a better place than where you found him when you started?

[Marc Maron]

I hope so, because, you know, Marc Maron is going to be 62 years old in September. And, you know, I just did. It's weird. And I know you guys have got it. You guys seem to have probably a more expansive work ethic than I do, but I don't know. I just did a special, you know, that's going to premiere on HBO August 1st, and it's really probably the biggest work I've done as a comic. Oh, that's great. I've done this thing for 16 years, and I'm very proud of that as a singular thing. And, you know, I wouldn't say I'm tired, but I'd like to see where I am without these responsibilities a little bit or without them being pressing all the time. I don't know.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I mean, yeah, you mentioned that special on HBO and you mentioned Stick with Owen. And you know, I love that film you were in that Justin Kirk Kurzel directed. The Order of the Law is just incredible. And your career is interesting. It's not even ascendant. Ascendant doesn't sound as respectful as I mean it to be. But things are great for you. So you probably. There's a part of this while you're winding that down. It's almost because you might not even have time for it anymore because shifting. Yeah. And also it seems like, correct me if I'm wrong, you're kind of allowing yourself to be a little bit more, in a healthy way, selfish with your life. And you're saying, well, I don't want to lend my personal life out anymore and monetize it. I want to keep my power inside and kind of enjoy being me. And I don't know, it sounds like a really healthy place that you're at.

[Marc Maron]

That's where I'm trying to get. I don't know if panic will fit in. I'm not great alone, you know, I don't have a wife. I don't have kids, you know.

[Will Arnett]

You got cats, Mark?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I got a few cats. And that's a whole other thing, dude. You know, I don't know what I'm gonna do with Charlie. But anyway, I got a real fuck of a cat. The hard thing about cats is, like, at least kids grow up. The cats are like, they're just gonna be that. And, you know, there's no teaching it new things, right? But, yeah, I think that's true, Jason. I think that is ultimately what is happening. And as you get older, you give less fucks about certain things and the acting and that kind of stuff. The way I see it is that I do okay. I've been able to do everything I wanted to do only because I did this one thing on my own that got me out in the world. And I've somehow managed to remain kind of under the radar. I don't have, like, you know, the weight of celebrity on me. You know, I'm kind of chipping away.

[Will Arnett]

But you're on top of the radar with those that you, I would imagine, respect, admire the audience you've actually been shooting for. You have. And that's. That, I think, is really admirable.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I mean, like, I try not to. Like, I know. I know. I kind of know exactly who I am and what my. My not so much shortcomings are. But there is an element because I have friends who are big, big, you know, stars in comedy or whatever, and there's always that little party. It's like, why am I not playing arenas? And it's just sort of like, dude, could you imagine the weirdness of doing what you do in an arena? I mean, I do a joke about it. I say, like, I think I could play one arena centrally located in the country somewhere, and I could bust my fans in, you know, like, you know, buses for Marin leaving out of Whole Foods parking lots in these cities. That's so funny. But so I. I do know who I am. And I do know one of the reason I am who I am has something to do with some fears but, but maybe those are, those are good. Maybe those are self protecting, you know? Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

So now the question is. Yeah. What do you, what, what do you, what's day to day? Like, what are you going to, what do you want to do? Like if, if you had your druthers, if it was like, hey, hey, man. And which you kind of do. What's the deal? Is it wake up?

[Marc Maron]

I'd like to try to figure out how to enjoy myself. I mean, you guys seem so what's.

[Jason Bateman]

The path to that? Are you gonna like, learn how to, are you gonna paint or are you gonna learn how to?

[Marc Maron]

Well, look, I do, I do a lot of things. You know, I've been playing guitar with people I'm playing, you know, I get together and sometimes I do music shows. I've found the courage to sing in front of people and that's sort of daunting and intriguing. But you know what I really like to learn how to do and I don't know how to do it, you know, like, when I act, you know, I think I do okay with it. You do? You're great. Well, that's nice.

[Jason Bateman]

You are good.

[Marc Maron]

And I just did a feature, an indie feature where I'm the lead and I kind of, you know, I kind of manned up and pulled that off. We'll see if it gets out anywhere but.

[Will Arnett]

Nice.

[Marc Maron]

But there's this thing.

[Will Arnett]

Wait, is that the one with Judy Greer?

[Marc Maron]

She's in it. And Lily Gladstone's in it. Sharon Stone. That's Alan Robert Ruck. Oh, awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Michael McKean.

[Will Arnett]

That's called in Memoriam.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, dude, it's funny. And I watched a Final Cut and I. Let me ask you this two questions about acting since we're here. When you watch yourself, is it. Are you always sort of like, ah, like why'd I, you know, I mean, you can watch the whole movie, but you're. Some part of you is really focused on like, why'd I do that with my, my eye?

[Will Arnett]

You know, like I will, I will say that the fact that you're doing that, that you're watching and you're, and you're, and you're, you're, you're being honest with yourself and you're. That's you. That will make you an incredible actor. I, I've learned so much from seeing how bad I am on things and adjusting for the next job.

[Marc Maron]

But don't people say you're good though? Aren't they telling you that it's good?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, but you know, you, it doesn't matter.

[Marc Maron]

But are we right?

[Will Arnett]

But yes. I'm saying you need to. I think you need to watch yourself. And there's so many talented actors that I work with that never watch themselves because they're afraid that they're bad, yet they're so good. And I keep saying, you're denying yourself like this, this great treat.

[Jason Bateman]

But, Jason, I think that you have a unique ability. I really mean this. And I don't know if it's because you've been doing it since you were a little kid, so it's just so, like, ingrained in who you are, but you have a really good ability to separate and be objective. You really, really do. It's an honor. It's a mem. It's a great quality.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

And so you're able to go and look at stuff. And now, because. Also because you have that. Because you direct, so your ability to be objective about your place in the story, understanding where you are, is, I think, unique. I don't think everybody has that.

[Marc Maron]

I know just thinking about what Jason does, like, with the directing and then with the act, like, I'm getting anxiety thinking about his career. So, like, I can't even fucking wrap my brain around it, you know, like. But here's the question that is kind of eating at me. It's like I was sitting with Judy at some junket for stick, because she's got a part in that too.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, wow.

[Marc Maron]

And she said to me, she said, you know, the way you handled that character was very unique because most people would have went broad with it. And I said to her, I said, I don't think I know how to go broad. And she goes, I don't think you do either. So some part of my brain is like, I gotta figure out how to get broad. You know, how do I. How do I become a broad comic actor? I don't have it.

[Jason Bateman]

It's so funny. By the way, I was just thinking, I saw a video on social media this morning, Sean. I don't know who. I think the. The play posted it of you just playing piano. Oh, yeah, I saw that in the last couple days.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, the Gershwin.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, the Gershwin thing. And. And Sean. And Sean's about. He's in London. He's about to do his. His show on the West End.

[Will Arnett]

Good night, Oscar. At the Tabasco or the.

[Jason Bateman]

At the barbecue? At the barbecue.

[Will Arnett]

Sorry.

[Jason Bateman]

At the. And Sean. And you're just sitting down, you're playing. You're not playing in front of anybody, and you just start playing. And honest to God. And not to embarrass you, I thought, this fucking guy is so fucking talented.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

No, it's true. And I thought, like, I couldn't do that if you gave me a million tries.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, you got it.

[Will Arnett]

You know what I mean?

[Jason Bateman]

And I'm just thinking, like, God damn it, what am I doing? I'm fixing my bike in the garage.

[Marc Maron]

I'm going to order a piano on Amazon right now.

[Jason Bateman]

I literally went to get a new wrench at the hardware store and then rode back and couldn't figure out how to use it and was trying to get them to raise my handlebars.

[Marc Maron]

And for a half hour before you called the guy to fix it, right?

[Jason Bateman]

No, I, I, I did it. I got the scar. I did it wrong. And then my seat kept going down anyway, and Sean's there playing, making beautiful art. And I was like, oh, God damn it.

[Sean Hayes]

You know, that's really nice. I think we all have gifts and we've all lucky. We're all lucky enough to be able to share them.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, it is pretty great, Mark. You know, like, you, you, whatever your, your innate talent is, you have found a lane for it, a platform for it, you know, a place to apply it, and doing such good for so many that listen to you, and I'm very happy for you that you are deciding to, you know, spend a little of that on yourself and reinvesting in.

[Marc Maron]

You know, and leave on your term.

[Jason Bateman]

And leave on your terms. And I reject the idea just before I also reject the idea. And I know you say it because it's kind of a funny one line like, you know, that people, you inspired, that people thought, well, if Mark can do it, I can do it. That's not true at all. I think the opposite is true. I think that you inspired people.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, that's nice.

[Jason Bateman]

It's true. And you grew this medium and so that dumb dumbs like us could do it.

[Will Arnett]

And that your tone and your quality and your honesty and your vulnerability, it was a, was a, was a, was a viable format.

[Marc Maron]

But I think the other thing I want to know is, because comedy, look, I watched my new special, and I like it. I have complete control of that craft, and it's the best work I've done. I know that that's great, and with this thing, but with comedy and with podcasting, it's all driven improvisationally. It's all going to create itself in real time. And with acting, that's different. So then all of a sudden you got a script and you make choices and all that Stuff, but I don't know really where none of my imagination goes into creating fiction or creating things outside of myself. Everything I do is impulsive and comes from, you know, the need to connect. So I'm kind of curious. Do I have creativity that is more disciplined, that I can apply in another way? That's the big mystery. Can I apply my talents to something that isn't essentially marked?

[Jason Bateman]

Have you ever sat down and written? Have you ever.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I write every week. I do. I don't love, I don't love writing. You know, I, it's exhausting, but I write a thing every week, but reflections that are sort of poetic and I put that out into the world and I've done the writing, but my, my comedy is sort of formed on stage and in real time until it's. It sort of sets and then I leave room for new things to happen. For like, I did the special and I, you know, I usually start with like an hour and 45 minutes that I tour with for a year and a half. And then, you know, three weeks before I got a shoot, I got to get it down to like 70 minutes and, and figure out what the callbacks are. And then I leave a little open space for things to drop in the days before or even that night. So it, it keeps it alive and, you know, but I, I'm very confident in that craft and, and I'm very confident in this talking on the mic thing. But like with acting or I, I, you know, I've set in motion, I'm going to direct a, a film based on my buddy Sam Lipsite's book. And hopefully that'll, that'll happen, you know, but that's a little daunting and scary, but I guess I'm not afraid to take the chances.

[Jason Bateman]

It sounds like it's. Of course you've got creativity. What are you talking about? You're doing it all.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. In answer to your. What I think your question is about the application of what you heretofore have been doing, which is basically freestyling, improvising. You are coming first and then the words follow. Right. That's your writing for standup. You're freestyling on the microphone. Your podcast. How do you apply that same level of accuracy, authenticity into something that is by its own definition, pre written. Right.

[Marc Maron]

A movie, a script, or outside of myself. Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. How do you find that level of Marc Maron in acting? I will say that you are allowed, when you take on a character, to make that character simply just another part of who Marc Maron is. You know, there are goalposts. You're far right, far left of who Marc Maron is, and then you just find whatever version that character is closest to you inside of those goalposts. So you're. So you're still being Marc Maron. It's just the words are written beforehand, and you gotta find the version of you that fits those words. And so you're still kind of. You're still exhibiting who you are and should still be able to find some enjoyment.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I get that part where you kind of turn things off or turn things on within. I get that with the acting. My question is, like, can I do something? Like, if I direct, you know, I don't have a vocabulary for that. I don't have a style. So that's completely outside of me, and I'm just gonna have to figure out what that is. Can I. Could I.

[Will Arnett]

You don't need to do that on the first one. Just exercise taste and just sit there and watch the results of other people's work and say, yes to this, no to that. Little more of this, this little more of that. It is the one person on the set that doesn't have a job, so you don't really actually need to do anything. I'm not suggesting that's the right way to be a director, but I've worked with a million that work that way. It's very common. So you need not be overwhelmed with. I got to do a bunch of walk before you run and just sit there and just be the arbiter of taste, you know? Right.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. Why? Can I. I will do that.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, and you can do that. You've got great taste.

[Jason Bateman]

Fuck. I've learned a lot from Jason today. Who's this guy?

[Will Arnett]

I'm starting my own podcast next week I wanted to tell you guys about.

[Jason Bateman]

I'm listening to it. Are you kidding me? I can't wait. Holy shit. It took us 300 episodes to get through to you.

[Will Arnett]

I've arrived.

[Jason Bateman]

Wait. If it wasn't for Mark. You know what I mean?

[Will Arnett]

How about this? This is the first interview, a first guest I've ever had that I didn't get to one single question. And we're already six minutes over. Over one hour. So that is a Testament to you, Mr. Marc Maron, knowing the gift of gab, knowing what you're doing, keeping the conversation going.

[Marc Maron]

Can I share one story, though, for Sean, please?

[Jason Bateman]

Yes, please.

[Will Arnett]

Wait, is. Sean. Are you still here?

[Marc Maron]

Yep.

[Will Arnett]

There he is.

[Sean Hayes]

I just. I took a bathroom break.

[Marc Maron]

I'm Back. Well, he talked about the, the doctor that did the full examination for the, for the sore throat. Like, like I went into like one of my old guy physicals, you know, I guess it was probably last year. And now for the, they, for the prostate test, they only do the blood test and like, so, you know, fingers gone. Right. Well, that's, I didn't know that. So the guy said, I said, what, are we going to do the finger thing?

[Sean Hayes]

Not for me.

[Marc Maron]

And then he says, no, no, we don't do that anymore. You know, they do it with the blood. I'm like, well, is that effective? I mean, you find that the results. He's like, yeah, no, we, we just do the blood test. He says, I can, I can do the other thing if you want. So I'm like, well, I would feel better, I would feel better if you did. So I requested a finger bang from the doctor. Yeah. Wow.

[Will Arnett]

And he did. And he did that.

[Marc Maron]

He did. And in my, my diagnosis is it's not clear he needed to go back in.

[Jason Bateman]

You said, you said, go ahead. Why don't you go ahead and toss a ring on too before you get in there.

[Will Arnett]

He said he'd like to see you again next week.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, he's here now. You're a little bit of a, you're.

[Sean Hayes]

A little bit of a hypochondriac, though, like. I am a little bit.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I, I, well, I grew up with a doctor father, so it was a real way to get attention. Like, you know, I think I have cancer, so.

[Sean Hayes]

Right.

[Marc Maron]

But, but yeah, I've got, I, I, you know, I got a, you know, I gotta, I got a handle on it, you know, it doesn't happen as much. And when it does happen, it runs pretty deep. Like, you know, like I can usually say, like, just wait a couple days, it'll probably go away, that kind of stuff. But if I really lock into, I think I have cancer, I'll go all the way through it and I'll sit in my bed and just sweat, you know.

[Will Arnett]

Oh, man, me too.

[Marc Maron]

Anticipating the nothingness.

[Will Arnett]

That's called intelligence and being creative. The, the ability to sort of like create these scenarios in your brain.

[Marc Maron]

That's how I use my imagination. Just all driven by panic and fear. I really like to free it up, you know.

[Will Arnett]

Who doesn't have panic? D Dummies, you know, it takes a lot of intelligence to like create this, like.

[Marc Maron]

No, but don't they seem a little more happier than we are when they're.

[Will Arnett]

Not talking about blissful Ignorance.

[Marc Maron]

When they're not talking about Qanon, the.

[Jason Bateman]

Happiness is not as profound.

[Marc Maron]

How about that? Okay, well, that's a projection, but, you know, hold on to it.

[Will Arnett]

Mark, we. We love you and we thank you.

[Jason Bateman]

You're the greatest.

[Marc Maron]

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it. And you guys are doing great.

[Jason Bateman]

Thank you, man.

[Will Arnett]

Well, thank you. You please keep. Keep on jamming. And will you consider at least maybe doing a special once a year or something? Just. Just to just.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Will Arnett]

And I. And I don't mean the incredible specials on. Yeah, yeah. Come back and give people updates.

[Marc Maron]

Well, I have to figure out, like, I think there's other ways.

[Sean Hayes]

You know, maybe it's the podcast version of the Letterman show. You know what I mean, where he does like, six.

[Marc Maron]

You know, I could do that. But then you're kind of like, who's, you know, my. My producer kind of. And I don't really do much without him, but I think there is a world could at least, you know, maybe after a little time off, you know, get on the mic, you know, once a week, just to talk without people. That might happen. I don't know.

[Will Arnett]

We want it. We need it. Please do it.

[Marc Maron]

Thanks, buddy.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay, fellas. All right. Thanks.

[Will Arnett]

Best of luck to you, my friend. Thanks for doing.

[Jason Bateman]

Thanks, Mark.

[Marc Maron]

Take care, you guys. Good luck with the show. Sean, break a leg.

[Sean Hayes]

Thank you, pal. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Marc Maron]

Bye.

[Will Arnett]

Bye, Mark. Boy, that Marc Maron. I mean, like, you know, so Willie, Sean, unfortunately, you never did a show, but Willie doesn't. It sort of. You just sit there, you listen to him, and you just. He just kind of rocks you it to this place of, like, really? Oh, I just want to tell you everything about me.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Jason Bateman]

You know.

[Sean Hayes]

Well, he's almost like a therapist, you know?

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. But without being solicitous. He's just Right. He just kind of goes first, and there's just like this nice quality.

[Jason Bateman]

He just starts talking, and you're just having a conversation. You forget that you're doing it, and. And all of a sudden, you're telling him stuff that you haven't ever talked about in that way before.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayes]

It's a really. Talk about gifts, though. Like, that's. His gift is, like, you know, like you said. Very nice of you to say that, Willy, but, like, we all really do have gifts. And his gift is to just be able to constantly keep a conversation going, be interesting, never not be curious. He's always curious about every single person, and it's really an intelligent conversation. You get sucked in.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah. I'm glad that at least he will always have his stand up to sort of just.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, I'm excited for his new standup special. That's going to be great.

[Will Arnett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is. He mentioned it earlier but just to make sure. It's called Panicked and it's going to be on on HBO August 1st and then it'll stream on the max after that.

[Marc Maron]

Listen, it's great.

[Will Arnett]

Such a big fan of his.

[Jason Bateman]

Yeah, same here. He's always been such a good dude and I figured, you know, Sean, you mentioned the gifts and you know he has that and Jason, we talked about your gifts and Sean and you have your gifts and I don't know, I wasn't given any gifts. But you know what? Hopefully one day I'll be in a position where I'll be able to buy one.

[Will Arnett]

That was pretty good. Yeah. Bye.

[Jason Bateman]

Bye. Smart Smart Loss Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant, Terry, Rob Armjarv and Bennett Barbaco. Smart Less.

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