"Michelle Pfeiffer"

Summary

SmartLess Podcast Summary

Guest: Michelle Pfeiffer

Hosts: Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Will Arnett
Air Date: September 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

This lively episode welcomes iconic actress Michelle Pfeiffer as the surprise guest. The hosts dive into her remarkable journey—spanning decades across film and television—and discuss everything from her humble beginnings and cult roles to balancing work, life, and creative evolution. The conversation is punctuated by playful jokes, deep reflections, and honest talk about Hollywood’s changes, especially for women. Michelle’s signature dry wit and candor delight the hosts as they look back on the triumphs and challenges of her storied career.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Michelle’s Introduction & Recent Work

• [10:05] The surprise guest is revealed as Michelle Pfeiffer. She’s upbeat and mentions getting ready to head back to Montana for more filming of her series "The Madison."
• Will shares he recently worked with her, describing the shoot as both fun and grueling due to many takes:
  • “It was heavy. Just the two of us for about two days, just talking at each other.” —Will [11:19]

2. Early Career Stories

• [12:08] Will asks about Michelle’s first acting job. She recounts her single line on "Fantasy Island" as a “Lost Woman” dressed in a toga:
  • “Who is he, Naomi?” —Michelle, recalling her line [12:22]
• Michelle reflects on her path to acting, starting with a theater class in high school “to avoid English grammar," working at a Von’s supermarket, and a brief stint at trade school for court reporting.
  • “I thought all the theater people were just kind of, you know, geeky. And anyway, I just...fit right in.” —Michelle [15:17]
  • “My dad was not thrilled at the notion of me doing...” —Michelle [15:45]

3. Fan Moments & Cult Classics

• Sean gushes over "Grease 2," admitting, “I know every word” [17:41]. Michelle shares that she gets this often and recognizes the movie's cult following:
  • “That’s a big one...And you’ve got all the people quoting Scarface...Fabulous Baker Boys…” —Michelle [19:01]

4. Longevity & Relevance in Hollywood

• [22:55] Jason asks if Michelle ever gives herself credit for her decades-spanning career; she humbly says no, feeling “surprised” when others mention it:
  • “I find it...hard to feel relevant in any way because it feels like everybody’s famous now...So it doesn’t...feel that way, honestly.” —Michelle [23:33]
• Michelle discusses embracing acting more as she ages, feeling more relaxed and less anxious:
  • “The weird thing is that giving up that angst about the process has freed me up, and I feel in some ways has made me better.” —Michelle [27:05]
  • “I might announce on this show that I became a grandmother last year!” —Michelle [26:21]

5. Changing Approach to Craft & Self-Critique

• Michelle used to obsessively watch dailies, but now avoids it:
  • “It’s hard for me to like my work and watch it...I just don’t anymore.” —Michelle [28:25]
  • “I know no matter what I see, I’m going to find the negative.” —Michelle [29:27]
• She compares the acting process to painting—mistakes can lead to unexpected creative breakthroughs:
  • “Sometimes you go, OK, but those moments where you missed led to the good moment...You have to figure that out. That typically will end up being the favorite part.” —Michelle [30:25]

6. Evolution of Roles for Women and Industry Shifts

• [34:49] Michelle is asked about changes for women in Hollywood:
  • “They’re better, way better—that’s mainly due to television and streamers...So much of the good work is being done by women.” —Michelle [37:15]
  • “There has never been a bigger appreciation for women of my age...that’s super exciting.” —Michelle [38:11]
• She notes how taboo it once was for film stars to do TV or commercials:
  • “You couldn’t do TV and movies...God forbid you should do a commercial. You will never work again in the movies.” —Michelle [38:27]
• The hosts discuss watershed moments such as "True Detective" and the introduction of streaming prestige television.

7. Work-Life Balance & Collaborating with Husband David E. Kelley

• [44:30] The hosts highlight juggling two powerhouse careers (Michelle’s and David’s):
  • “I said to him...‘I’m not doing this unless you’re with me...’ And he’s been with me.” —Michelle [44:51]
• She recently worked with her husband for the first time on "Margot’s Got Money Troubles," playing a “Real Housewife of Fullerton wannabe” named Cheyenne [46:55].

8. Career Highlights & Personal Favorites

• Michelle shares her favorite performances and experiences:
  • “A toss up of ‘Married to the Mob’ and...‘Margot’s Got Money Troubles’ for experience. My favorite film, maybe ‘Baker Boys’...That might be my favorite performance as well.” —Michelle [48:25]
• Sean circles back with more "Grease 2" questions; Michelle recalls feeling “terrified” about living up to the original [49:45].

9. Keepsakes & Archiving

• Michelle admits she seldom keeps items from set, joking, “They just take up room...I just don’t have time.” —Michelle [51:52]

10. Iconic “Scarface” Story

• [52:57] Will asks about the lasting cultural legacy of "Scarface." Michelle reveals the filming was intense and describes her insecurity as a new actor in a male-dominated environment:
  • “I was 23...I didn’t feel worthy...I had zero confidence. And Al [Pacino] will admit he didn’t really want me for the part.” —Michelle [55:10, 55:21]
• She recalls a screen test where she accidentally cut Pacino:
  • “It’s that restaurant scene where I explode...I swipe the table...Cut. There’s blood everywhere...Well, I didn’t cut me. I cut Al.” —Michelle [58:20]
  • “I think that was the day he was like, ‘Yeah, yeah, yeah.’” —Michelle [58:34]
• The hosts agree: the key is to “care less”—that’s when the magic happens.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Watching you and hearing you get old in front of me is just astounding.” —Will to Jason [02:21]
• “I have a fragrance called Dave.” —Michelle, mid-discussion about acting and hobbies [31:24]
• “You’re even cooler than you are beautiful, which is saying a lot.” —Will [36:24]
• “We’re all chopped, baby.” —Michelle, joining in on the hosts’ slang [52:48]
• “That’s your mantra: I don’t give a shit.” —Michelle, on letting go in acting and auditioning [59:13]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [10:05] Michelle Pfeiffer revealed as guest; discussion of recent projects.
• [12:08] Early TV role on "Fantasy Island."
• [15:00] Michelle’s unlikely start in acting and family background.
• [17:41] Sean’s love for "Grease 2."
• [22:55] Reflections on longevity and relevance in Hollywood.
• [26:21] Michelle announces she's a grandmother.
• [27:05] Her evolving process and releasing “process angst.”
• [34:49] Changes for women, roles, and industry perceptions.
• [44:51] Balancing careers and working with David E. Kelley.
• [48:25] Favorite movies, performances, and experiences.
• [49:45] "Grease 2" discussion — pressure and fun.
• [52:57] "Scarface" legacy and the Al Pacino screen test story.
• [59:13] Advice on auditioning and letting go.

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Episode Tone & Style

• Conversational, playful, and warm, with ample teasing among hosts.
• Michelle is approachable, wry, and candid—occasionally self-deprecating.
• The hosts alternate between fanboy enthusiasm and professional admiration, keeping the mood light even during deeper moments.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for fans of Michelle Pfeiffer or anyone interested in the evolving world of acting. Michelle’s tales—spanning awkward auditions, iconic roles, and honest admissions about self-doubt and perseverance—offer a uniquely inspiring portrait of a Hollywood legend still at the top of her game. The chemistry between Michelle and the hosts makes for a funny, revealing, and ultimately uplifting conversation.

Transcript

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[A]

Oh, how's everybody today doing today?

[B]

I'm so good, Sean. How are you?

[D]

Are we actually. Are we actually doing this or are we talking. Are we having a business meeting about. No, I think when we're doing cold.

[B]

Opens, I think we're rolling. We're literally rolling.

[A]

This is a cold open right now.

[B]

We're listening.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Because we're not doing another show for another couple weeks, so I'm just. Anyway, welcome to Smartless.

[A]

Smartless.

[B]

Here it comes.

[D]

Smart, smart, smart. Less.

[B]

Wait, what's sus mean? Any. Any. Any people in your suspect, right? That's the one. That's one of the new ones that kids are saying, right?

[D]

Or not new, not new. God, you're embarrassing yourself.

[B]

Riz. Riz is not new. Right? That's a couple years old.

[D]

Really, really bad.

[B]

Yeah. Is flexi a new one? You guys?

[A]

Flexi could be good. What? Like. What's flexi mean? Like flexible.

[B]

Yeah. And then what did I hear was. Oh, Zesty is gay. Is that right?

[A]

Zesty? Sure.

[B]

I never heard something is zesty. Will, have you heard the boys saying that?

[D]

Sorry.

[B]

Guys, I've got to keep up. We have to record soon. We're going to start the podcast and I just want to make sure I've got my.

[D]

Watching you and hearing you get old in front of me is just astounding.

[B]

Like, you should have heard the sounds I made trying to get out of the bed this morning. Super cold like you, you rogue fart. Just like it right back.

[D]

Boy, you're going to wish I hadn't said that with our guest. Hey, no.

[B]

Is it respectable?

[D]

Respectable guest? Very respectable.

[B]

Very. Let's start over.

[D]

She's Very classy.

[B]

God damn it. I'm sorry. Surprise guest.

[D]

No, it's good. And, jb, I would say that you started me off on the whole. Like, every time you get out of your chair, by the way, not even when you were old, when you were like, 33, you'd go.

[B]

You gotta make a sound to lock in the core.

[D]

I know. And somehow I got into that. Yeah, you do.

[A]

Hoy well. But you know what cheugy is, right? Cheugy is a word the kids use to describe someone or something that's outdated or trying too hard to be trendy or lacking originality.

[D]

Well, you're reading. Cause you looked that up.

[A]

I just looked it up while you were talking. I was like, once you look it up, it's gone.

[B]

What was the prompt? Hey, what are the kids saying?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Absolutely. That's what the prompt was, Sean. Wait, what about. Oh, by the way, the other night at the. This is. What's today? What's today? Wednesday?

[B]

Tuesday.

[A]

No, today's Tuesday. Sunday. The center seat in the front row of the play. Yeah, the girl. This girl just. I could tell she was just a single ticket. Her head was.

[B]

She was a narcoleptic. Hard to get a date.

[A]

I don't know. Yeah, she kept nodding off. And so at the bows, I pointed right to her and I just. And I mouthed and go, you gotta go. You gotta go nigh. Nai.

[B]

Oh, shit, Sean.

[A]

I did. I pointed right to her. The whole cast, we were laughing on stage. And I'm like, you gotta go, Nai. Nai, Are you tired? Are you? Tai. Tai.

[B]

Oh. And when was she embarrassed?

[A]

Or did she give you the flipping at me clap? She just kept looking at me, clapping, clapping. And she's like. She didn't realize I was. I'm looking right at her talking, but she didn't realize it.

[B]

Yeah, well, she probably has an issue picking up on social cues. And clearly proper rest.

[A]

And definitely proper rest. Who. It's like a very expensive nap.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. What did you maybe look at your performance.

[D]

How was it? How did me.

[A]

I thought about the whole time.

[D]

Was she. Was she normal or was she chopped? Did she look chopped?

[A]

What's chopped mean?

[B]

Would you just look up?

[A]

Oh.

[D]

Oh, you guys don't know. Oh, God, this is a real one. Are you kind of, kind of a little busted? A little busted up little.

[B]

You're not even reading that?

[D]

No.

[B]

So that. Did that come from Archie or Abel?

[D]

Listen, I'm look.

[B]

No, no, you're getting turned on.

[D]

Yeah. So I'm in with who gave you.

[B]

That Archie or Abel dude?

[D]

All of our friends, my friends and Archie's friends enable us. And we're all. Because I hang. Because we're all young dudes.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So we're kind of in the same friend group.

[B]

And do you guys. Do you guys say, hey, this is a great. This is a great new flavor of gum. You should try it.

[D]

Or you should hear it, is what I usually say.

[B]

Spit it out of your mouth.

[D]

I know. I would forget that. I've got it going.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Why do you. But you always chew gum.

[B]

Wait, is that. Is that the Nicorette gum? Is that what. He's on it.

[D]

Well, truth be told, I've got some Zinn. I've got. I've got the little nicotine.

[A]

Is that another word?

[B]

The kids pouches. We're getting free shit. I like this David Power bar. Guys, the folks at David. Let me give you. I'm going to give you in my address a little later in the side chat.

[D]

The folks at David. Sean, anything, any kind of hot fudge or ice cream that you need.

[A]

Haagen Dazs. I love Haagen Dazs.

[D]

Do you?

[A]

I do. I can't. I can't eat too much.

[D]

We like McConnell's. We like McConnell's.

[A]

Yes. We like McConnell's, too.

[D]

A lot. We like them a lot. And obviously Hyundai jmz.

[A]

Do you want to hear.

[D]

Laura Piano, Rolex and Net Jazz. Okay, guys, wait.

[B]

Do you want to Wait.

[A]

A real quick joke? A real quick joke. Ready?

[B]

So gross.

[D]

It's the worst. Go ahead. Shut all your.

[B]

Guys, apologize, everybody.

[A]

A dwarf psychic just escaped prison.

[B]

Come on. Really?

[A]

Yeah. There's a small medium at large.

[B]

There's a small medium. Medium at large. Then you work on your reading of that.

[D]

Okay, I heard. I heard a really quick one. This guy's going down the road.

[B]

There he is, okay?

[D]

And he gets to a T in the road and he doesn't know which way to go. He's kind of lost. And he goes to the right. And all of a sudden his car breaks down. He goes in front. He lifts up the hood. He's trying to figure out what's wrong, and he hears it's. It's the alternator. And he looks up. There's a horse. There he goes, what the hell?

[A]

Talking.

[D]

So he goes down, looks at the car again. He can't figure it out. And he goes, it's the alternator. Looks back at the horse, and he's like, what the. So he goes. He tries the alternator. Tightens a few screws, starts right up. And he goes. So he's like, oh man. So he drives to the nearest bar, he gets in the barn, he says, the barman, he says, give me two. A large brandy. And he just downs it. He says, give me another large brandy. And he downs. And the barman goes, ho, ho, ho. Are you okay, man? He goes, yeah. He goes, I was just driving here. I was lost. I hit a tee in the road. I went to fix my car and this horse, this talking horse, you know, I decided to go right and I came upon this horse and he said that it was the alternator. And he goes, oh man, good thing you didn't go left. He goes, why? Because there's a horse over there that doesn't know anything about cars.

[B]

Come on, come on. Where are we going?

[A]

I know.

[B]

Are we going into choke hell?

[D]

You didn't like that?

[B]

Cuz I'm already there.

[D]

You didn't like that there's a horse over there that doesn't know anything about.

[B]

COVID Where's the punchline?

[D]

Yeah, that's it.

[B]

That's terrible. We're going to leave that in. We're not going to cut it. Cuz everyone needs to know that. Sometimes will clanks it. It happens rarely.

[D]

You didn't like it that well, I love it. I think it's cute.

[B]

Stupid.

[D]

All right, so our guest, our guest.

[B]

Couple of pieces of string walk into a bar and they, and they, they sit down on the stools and the, and the one piece of string says. The bartender says, give us a couple of beers. The bartender says, we don't fucking serve string in here. And the two pieces of string look at each other. Come on, let's get out of here. So they walk outside. One piece of string says, the other piece of string, quick, tie yourself around me. He goes, what are you doing? He goes, just tie yourself around me, come on. Ties himself around. They hop back in there, they jump up on one stool and he says, give us a couple of beers. You go, hey, aren't you. Those two pieces of string I just kicked out of here? Guy says, fraid not. Okay, so that's up there with your shit horse joke. But it's slightly better. It's a little.

[D]

Good thing you didn't go left. There's a horse over there that doesn't.

[A]

Know anything about cars. He doesn't know anything about cars.

[B]

Oh, Sean's laughing.

[A]

My God.

[B]

Sean's just having fun. Let's see if our surprise guests.

[D]

Imagine a horse. Imagine like, okay, you know, and It.

[B]

Okay, so by the way, Franny is eating up Bo. No. Is it? No, it's Maple. She's eating up BoJack. Horseman.

[D]

Inappropriate.

[B]

But apparently this is a great show. This is. This is an animated show on the Netflix.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Was it just getting going?

[D]

I tell you, I haven't heard. I tell you who's been going for a long time is our guest.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[D]

She's worked with everybody from. We're talking. This is primo. A list. Iconic. She's gonna hate me for saying this, but it's true. Actor. She has been. She's worked with everybody from Pacino, De Niro, Nicholson. She's been three Academy Awards, you know, she's been a queen, Catwoman, a Diazon.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

How does she do it so fast? Get that.

[B]

Not just get connected to the universe.

[D]

Michelle P. Reveal yourself.

[B]

Good morning. Oh, she's asleep.

[A]

She's asleep.

[B]

Good morning. What a pleasure.

[E]

Good morning. You got it so fast.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Jason, how did you get that? Many incredible icon icons in the world, male or female, you're right there at the top.

[D]

Hi, Michelle.

[A]

Hey.

[E]

Hi. How are you?

[D]

I'm great. How are you?

[E]

Oh, I'm good. Getting ready to go back to Montana.

[A]

For what?

[B]

For some.

[E]

For some. More Madison.

[B]

More Madison.

[D]

So, Michelle, I. I wanted to start by saying, first of all, I had such a great time. I did a couple days with you on the Madison, which was super fun.

[A]

He. He came home and raved about you, Michelle.

[E]

It was, you know, I. I gushed. Aw. Fun. Wow. It was. It was. It was. Yeah.

[B]

We're talking about Will as a scene for the great.

[E]

No, no. Will was questionable, and he was. All right.

[B]

So it was the director. You had issues.

[E]

Amazing scene. No, no, love, love, love. Love the director, love the show, love the actors. It was just our scenes were kind of grueling, and we did a lot of takes.

[D]

We did a lot of takes.

[E]

A lot of angles.

[D]

A lot of angles. And we had. It was heavy. It was just the two of us for about two days, and we're just talking at each other for two days.

[E]

Was it only two days?

[B]

Was it like a contentious or maybe three days?

[E]

And I was cursing at him and. Yeah.

[A]

On behalf of that.

[E]

Throwing the F bomb around.

[B]

And I appreciate you not actually using the word on this episode.

[D]

So, Michelle, I went all the way back, so in anticipation of having you on the show, which this has been a long time coming, and actually, we were going to have you a long time ago, and then schedule and Things that prevented us from having you a long time ago. And I've wanted to get into one of the things I loved. When I look up, it says. And I wanted to ask you about this. Your first television credit ever was Fantasy Island. Is that true?

[A]

Oh, no way. That's cool. What a drama.

[E]

I had one line.

[D]

No way.

[E]

I had one line on Fantasy island, and I remember the line.

[A]

What is it?

[E]

And the line. And the episode was the island of Lost Women.

[B]

Sure.

[E]

Okay. I was one of the Lost Women, and we were all running around in togas.

[B]

Can I guess? The line.

[E]

Pastel. Yes.

[B]

Here I am. No. And it was the Closer. They went to credits after that.

[D]

That was the only episode that Sean skipped. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, boobs. I'm out.

[E]

It was. It was. It was. Who is he, Naomi?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Who is he, Naomi? And were you referring to Mr. Rourke?

[E]

It was. Who was it?

[A]

Herbellichev.

[E]

I can't remember who it was. Good memory. Yeah. And there were no men. I mean, the premise is there were no men on the island. And so we were all lusting over this one. One man who.

[B]

Oh, but you don't remember who. That. That. And that was a guest. Guest. I don't.

[E]

You could. Well, did you do your homework? Did you look?

[D]

No, I did. Sorry. Did it say who?

[B]

You're not on wiki.

[E]

I mean, it did say it.

[B]

Michelle. Didn't they do a lot of that? Wasn't that done, like, on a back lot at one of the studios?

[E]

It was Universal back. I'm guessing it was Universal, but it could have been Warner Brothers.

[B]

You didn't. You didn't. You don't. Like, you didn't fly to Hawaii or something, right?

[E]

No. Yeah, right. No, they flew me to Hawaii. No.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

No, no. But I do remember how exciting it was. Showed up for work and there was, you know, honeywagon.

[B]

All the rooms there. You were at a honeywagon for sure. With one line for sure.

[E]

You're lucky to get.

[D]

Can you just tell Tracy real quick, Sean Sanders playing to his sister.

[A]

Yeah, a Honeywagon is. It's a trailer where you. Where you, as an actor, you hang out before while they're working on a.

[E]

Trailer and it's div. Divided up into small rooms, very small rooms.

[B]

And they put you in there like a veal.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

It's just enough room to turn. You can. You can go to the restroom, brush your teeth and change your shoes all sitting on one.

[E]

And what more does one need?

[A]

Yeah, right. Nothing.

[B]

It's very efficient.

[E]

But I was Very excited because I looked up and there was my name and a star.

[A]

They knew, like, you made it.

[E]

That's how long. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.

[A]

So tell me, like, tell me what. By the way, it's so nice to see. I think we met a long, long, long.

[D]

But she doesn't.

[A]

Just in passing. No, she doesn't remember, but. But this is the first time I've gotten to talk to you, so it's such a pleasure. And what was that like when you. The first time when you. So before Fantasy island, had you been pursuing it? How did you fall into it? Like, how did you get that. That first job?

[E]

I had taken theater in high school to avoid having to take an English class. I think it was grammar that I was avoiding. And. And so I sort of fell into it. And I thought all the theater people were just kind of, you know, geeky.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure they are.

[E]

And anyway, I just. I mean, I just fit right in. And I just sort of fell in love with it and then, anyway, graduated. I didn't think I ever, in my wildest dreams, become an actor. I just wasn't a part of that. I'd never met an actor. I'd never met a famous person. And.

[D]

And your family was. There was no sort of acting connection in your family?

[E]

Nothing. Nothing. In fact, my dad was not thrilled at the notion of me doing.

[B]

Where were you? Where did you grow up?

[E]

In Orange County. Not that far away from la. Anyway, so I was working at Von's supermarket.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Checkout.

[E]

Checkout.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah. And I wasn't a very good checker. I could never balance my cash register.

[B]

Yeah. And those are the days where you had. You had to. You had to type in the price and didn't you scan stuff?

[E]

Those were the days. Right. Way back then.

[B]

Some skills. Now, did you not go to college and, like, study up on some, you know, tangible. Something you could really rely on, like a real. Or were you just like, I'm all in, and if this doesn't work, I'm going back to slinging melons.

[E]

I had started a trade school. I was doing court reporting.

[A]

Oh, really? Wow.

[E]

And that made me crazy in the head because you have to sort of learn a whole new language.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

And then you have to type it out like this.

[A]

What is stenographer? Wait, so you know how to do that?

[E]

Not anymore. But what would happen was, after about a year of studying, that every time I would talk to people, my hands would start going like this.

[A]

Really?

[E]

My brain and I'm transcribing. Every single thing.

[B]

And it's not a qwerty keyboard, is it?

[A]

No, it's like a different kind of keyboard.

[E]

No, it's totally different. You have to learn a completely different language.

[D]

It's a fully different language. Did it help you memorize dialogue going forward?

[A]

No.

[E]

I mean, maybe.

[B]

Good question, though.

[D]

Thanks. I was just thinking. I just think it would be funny. I wonder if you ever lost a job. You know, you said you took acting because you didn't want to do this grammar class, and I wonder if you ever lost a job. They're like, we really wanted to hire her, but her grammar was terrible.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

She doesn't speak good.

[A]

I've been since you popped on our little screen here today to talk. It's really hard for me to hold. I have. You know, Grease 2 is one of my favorite movies of all time.

[E]

Really?

[A]

And I'm sure you get it all the time, and I'm so sorry, but me and my sister watched it a thousand times. I know every word.

[D]

My sister and I.

[A]

My sister and I.

[D]

Who else is back?

[B]

Michelle was about to come. I'm just kidding. But I'm just kidding.

[A]

Anyway. I. I just. I just. It's. It was a huge part of my childhood Grease, too. And we would just watch it over and over and over again. And I know every line of dialogue and every word, so it's really cool that you were.

[B]

What's your favorite part in the film?

[E]

Isn't that cool? I think one of my favorite parts of the film is A Girl for All Seasons. Cause it's a gift.

[A]

So you're a girl for All Seasons and I'm dressed as the Year three?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

As a Christmas tree.

[A]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And if you could.

[E]

Sean, how many times have you reenacted Cool Rider on a Ladder?

[A]

A thousand times. Okay, I need to see.

[E]

You know, there's somebody online who did that, actually, and I reposted it.

[A]

Oh, really?

[E]

There was a guy who, like, reenacts every scene.

[A]

Do you get that a lot in your life that people just know it's like a cult, like classic, like people.

[E]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

Is that the thing people do the most from Greece, too? Like, going outlandish and recreating stuff? You mean, like, do people come up and quote lines? Or, like, is that the one that people go, oh, my God, I love, like, Sean, like, sort of fanboying out.

[E]

That's a big one. And I guess, probably. Well, and then you've got all the people quoting Scarface, which is Scarface.

[D]

I mean, Scarface.

[E]

But mostly they're quoting Tony Montana. Not really me and Fabulous Baker Boys. What about that, Sean? Have you sung on top of a piano?

[A]

I take a nap on top of.

[D]

Oh my God. I remember when that movie came out. I love those guys too. So much. I love Beau and Jeff Bridges. What great dudes. And I mean, just the best. That movie was so good.

[E]

The best. The best.

[B]

And we will be right back.

[A]

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[F]

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[A]

And now back to the show.

[B]

Michelle, like you could go on and on and on with all of the incredible things that you have done. Do you take the time, ever privately to kind of give yourself a little pat on the back for the longevity, the amount of time you have spent in a relevant position in an industry that's famous for its unpredictability and its. It's so sort of fickle and like you have been incredibly well respected and sought after for probably five times longer than your average actor or actress. It's just.

[E]

Don't you admirable? Don't you find it. I find it. First of all. No, I don't. I'm always surprised, actually, to hear people say that. But I also find today it's really hard to feel relevant in any way because it does feel like everybody's famous. Everybody's sort of getting their 15 minutes and you kind of. So it doesn't. I don't know, it doesn't feel that way, honestly.

[D]

Right.

[B]

But it turns out it seems like there's. Well, there's certainly enough room for you. Right. You are still doing that, which you want at the pace that you want. It seems from the outside.

[D]

I mean, you've got three. You've got the Madison. You've got your show on your Apple tv. You've got a movie coming out as well. Right. For Amazon. Like, you're busy.

[E]

Well, yeah, I'm a little too busy. I didn't really plan. Look, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful because I love acting. I've never lost. In fact, I probably enjoy it more now than I ever have because really, yeah, I'm sort of more relaxed with it. I actually didn't you know, I. When I had all of this work, plus I have a fragrance company that I founded, like, seven years ago. And so, you know, at a time when I wasn't working all this much, so I don't really have time to be thinking about anything but the task at hand. But when I had all these acting jobs coming up, I thought, okay, okay, how are you going to manage this and have a life? Because that hasn't always been easy for me. I'm an all or nothing kind of girl. And when I approach things and I always like taking on challenges, and then I get into it and it's sort of sink or swimming, and for whatever reason, I kind of feed on that. Maybe not so healthy, I don't know. But. So my approach has been. This gets back to, why am I enjoying it more now than ever is I don't have time to. Nor the desire to go that deep for that long and. And not be present. You know, I realize, you know, I have a finite amount of time left. And I might announce on this show that I became a grandmother last year.

[B]

Excellent. Well done. That's awesome.

[E]

I've been very quiet about it, and it is the greatest, right? Heaven. It's heaven. It's ridiculous.

[A]

Congratulations, by the way. That's pretty cool.

[E]

And if I had known that I was gonna be a grandmother, I wouldn't have taken on so much work. But I've enjoyed everything, and I'm really grateful. I mean, I love each of these projects. And so the weird thing is that that sort of giving up, that angst about the process has freed me up, and I feel in some ways has made me better.

[B]

You mean angst about the process of actually studying to play that character, doing the research, yada, yada.

[E]

Oh, I have to know this, and I have to. And no longer, you know, and I have to free. I have to personalize this, and I have to, you know, and yes, yes, there's a certain amount of that you have to do, and that's important. But then, you know, and then you start, though. But there's something amazing for me about showing up, and it's about discovery.

[A]

Yes. And also, I bet you bring more of yourself now than ever before. Is that correct?

[E]

Yes, I think you might be right.

[A]

You might be right.

[D]

That's a first.

[E]

For better or worse, Shawn. For better or worse, Shaun.

[A]

Yeah, but I mean, like, it makes you fearless.

[B]

Yeah, I'll bet, Michelle, you would say for better, right? Because if we're. If we're. If we're doing things correctly, which it sounds like you are. You become a better and better version of yourself as you get older. And as an actor, sort of by consequence, you're bringing more interesting abilities to pretending to be other people. So I'll bet your work has gotten even better, right? I mean, do you watch your own stuff? I mean, can. Can you allow yourself to watch yourself and go, that's a little bit better than what I did five years ago or ten years ago or.

[E]

It's hard for me to like my work and watch it. And that's the other thing, is I used to see every day's daily. The work before. Had to see what I was doing, had to see where I was at, had to know, do I need to make a shift? Do I need to.

[B]

Yeah. And you don't do that?

[E]

I don't. I just don't anymore.

[B]

What happened? When did that change?

[E]

It gradually started shifting. Actually, that was a while ago because I was just torturing myself.

[B]

So you didn't like what you were seeing, or you got more confident in, oh, you know what? I keep checking, but it's fine.

[D]

Or were you doing it to punish. Were you doing it to punish yourself on a certain level, do you think?

[E]

I'm just very. I'm just super critical.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So then you left and you're like, I'm just gonna be mean to myself. So I don't even wanna look.

[E]

No. Mean to my. Yes. Yes.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Yes. Because I know no matter what I see.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

I'm going to find the negative. I'm gonna find the negative and I'm gonna show up the next day and do it the best way I know how. Anyway, I'm always gonna give 110%. I'm not gonna.

[D]

Well, I guess the danger of looking at it and caring is if you start watching that and you start relying on that, you run the risk of dragging that and your opinion of that to the next day. And it affects what you do. Not in the way that it's constructive, but potentially going, oh, I want to avoid this, this, this, and this. And now you're in some weird loop. You know what I mean?

[E]

Yeah. And the other thing about it, too, is that then you become rather than something happening spontaneously because you're just going with your instincts and you're in the moment, you start copying yourself. Oh, that was really good. That was a really good moment.

[A]

Ah.

[B]

And you try to regenerate it, and.

[E]

Then you're not in the moment anymore, which is what made it so good. And also what could have made it so bad. But you know that thing about like a painter, like when you paint, it's sometimes you go, okay, but those moments where you missed led to the good moment. And it's like a painter, it's the same thing. Cause I paint. And you have your painting and you have an idea and you start painting and then you make a mistake and then you have to go about, how am I gonna fix this? Well, you don't have a plan how to fix it because you didn't plan on making a mistake. So now you have to, you have to just figure that out. And it ultimately typically will end up being the favorite part of your painting. And so I think when you're creating, I think that's all part of the process.

[D]

And so just, I love that you paint. Like, of course you're painting. You couldn't be cooler. Everything you say is just that one thing's cooler than the next. Wait, Michelle, you worked.

[E]

Oh, by the way, I have a fragrance called Dave.

[D]

Dave.

[B]

Come on, Dave. Well, maybe Dave should meet the David Power Bar.

[E]

Maybe they should be friends.

[B]

David Power Bar.

[D]

Outta here. Here. We're talking about Michelle's fragrance. What is wrong with you?

[B]

Well, I do think before we move on, we should. Sean, I really think you should track down the gal in the front row and ask her how you can fix your mistake. You know, maybe straighten out your performance and stop putting people to bed.

[A]

I totally will do that. Wait, I totally will do that.

[E]

Can't you get in serious trouble? Like if you're on the stage and you break and you like start talking to the audience, isn't that sort of like a call?

[B]

You're fine.

[D]

He hit fuck it 10 years ago.

[B]

Don't worry. Try to get fired off Oscar forever.

[A]

No, no, I, I, I noticed her dozing off for the first hour of the play while I'm in it. And then I waited till the end of the, at the bows when everybody.

[E]

Clapping, you know, when we wasn't in the middle of your performance.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

Was it the applause, was it the applause that woke her up?

[A]

I think it was the applause that woke her up.

[E]

That's funny.

[B]

Sean.

[D]

When I come next week, I'm going to bring a pillow. It sounds like that's what I need to do. Wait, Michelle, I was going to ask you, you know, you've worked with so many great directors over the years. I mean, some, just some of the all time greats. And were you, was that a time and was there a time when you were just director driven? Has that shifted. Like, what do you, what do you look for when you're, when you're deciding now.

[E]

Director is super important. I mean, initially you just want a job, and then once you start getting work and then it's like obviously just choosing the best of what is put in front of you. And hopefully you're able to get pickier and pickier as you go along. And then, yeah, when you're in a position of where you have that kind of choice, it's a tough one. Like, is it script? Is it director? I mean, a lot of I've seen really talented directors make. I would not maybe masterpieces, but great films out of not so great scripts. And then I've seen maybe in the wrong hands, a really great script, just so director's. So in some ways I think I would. If I had to choose, I would say director. And then I think the part is, you know, does it kind of just speak to you? I mean, for me, if I can hear it, I can hear it, I can see it. I'm very visual.

[B]

Does it matter if it's the lead or 7, 6, 7, 8, 9 down the call sheet? If it's a direct contact?

[E]

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

[D]

6, 7, 8, 9.

[B]

Now you're getting into honeymoon territory.

[E]

You know, I recently have especially like, you know, working on a Marvel movie or something. And you have a tent on the stage and you're in a costume, you can't pee, you know, you can't go to the bathroom in unless you. And it's, you know, I've had to beg for a honey wagon size room. I'm like, just, I just need a place to go sit and work on my stuff that has a little tiny toilet, you know.

[A]

Right, right, right, right.

[E]

Couldn't have been happier. So.

[A]

Right, right. Let me ask you something. This might be like a. You don't. We don't have to go there if you don't want to.

[E]

But.

[A]

But having your breadth of work over literally decades, like amazing work one after another. Have you seen a change for the better in either roles for women from the beginning of a career to now, or how being a woman in the business has changed at all. Have you experienced any of that yourself or have you just been like, no, it's been. I've just been sailing along?

[B]

Before you even answer that, here's one thing that I just find incredibly impressive about you, and you don't have a lot of company in this. You have been able to have your talent as an actor overshine your extraordinary beauty. From day one.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Which extends into, I would imagine, so many interesting roles now. As one gets older, the roles get better. And since you never traded just on your looks, there's no end of relevance there. Like, it was always about the talent with you and the looks that was.

[E]

So delicately walked through and so impressive.

[A]

I sweat.

[D]

You're so close to trouble on either side.

[B]

I know.

[E]

He's teetering. Like, he is so teetering on the edge.

[B]

Did I make it? Did I shut up in time?

[E]

So impressed. Wow.

[A]

I was just more to the point.

[E]

It was beautiful.

[D]

I was gonna say. I was just.

[E]

How does it feel being an aging actress in Hollywood? Why don't you just say Sean?

[D]

No, Michelle. I was going to say that I think that you're. You're even cooler than you are beautiful, which is saying a lot. That is. That's the truth.

[E]

I always feel like. I'm so sorry.

[D]

You're very, very cool.

[A]

No, I just like, like pick your scandal in the news. In the news over about this business that we're all in. And a lot of the times it has to do. Not all the time, but a lot of it has time to do with women and how we've been mistreated so bad. And so I didn't know if you could speak to that.

[D]

Shannon, are you trying to get headlines for us? Cause, oh, no.

[B]

Can you get out of the dark water and get into the shallow? Because turquoise.

[E]

Yeah, we just got out of the deep end, Sean. And now there you go, diving back in. Wow, that was a lot to unpack, guys. So where do you want me to start?

[B]

This is your time.

[D]

How are the roles? Seem to you? Better?

[E]

Worse? Well, you know what? They're better, but they're way better. There's so many, like. And mainly that's due to television and streamers. And there's just. The bad news is there's, like a ridiculous amount of content out there and maybe too much.

[B]

You don't know what to watch.

[E]

A lot of it not so good, maybe.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

But that's always been the case. Right. Within our industry and now. And so. And I feel like. I just feel like so much of the good work, like, the majority of the good work is being done by women. I mean, extraordinary work by women and on television.

[A]

I agree.

[E]

And so it's keeping us all working. And then I also feel like in terms of performer and entertainment, there has never been a bigger appreciation for women of my age.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

And that's. That's super exciting. And so, yeah, I've Seen.

[A]

But that's what I kind of mean. It's like, I don't think that was the case during 20, 30, 40 years ago, 50 years ago.

[E]

And you couldn't do. You couldn't do TV and movies.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[D]

Right, right. Let alone. Right, right. That's a great point.

[E]

You couldn't do a commercial. God for forbid you should do some. You should sponsor a product or something. You will never work again in the movies.

[D]

Like, Michelle, like when you were making, like, let's say, like, 88. Was it 88 you made dangerous Liaisons or. And you're making all the. And you're getting nominated. So you're nominated for an Academy Academy Award, and then you call your agent, you go, I'm going to do this TV series. They'd be like, what, are you out of your mind?

[B]

Right, right.

[E]

Exactly.

[D]

Right.

[E]

And not even that long ago. You know, I remember, like, about, oh, maybe 10. Maybe. Was it 10 years ago I was talking about. I don't know, I got offered some TV show and I went, well, you know, I don't know. It's kind of interesting. And they're like, no, you know, if.

[A]

You do tv, really, it's gotta be something really special.

[B]

It was Woody and Matthew McConaughey with True Detective. I remember was the big. Like, oh, wow, these guys are.

[D]

Oh, they changed the.

[B]

Yeah. I think McConaughey had just won the Oscar, like, five months earlier for Dallas Buyers Club, maybe. And that was like, what is that. What changed is going on? I really feel like that was. And before that, obviously, Fincher doing House of Cards on Netflix, too. Like, just sort of launching streaming as a place where filmmakers go. So. Yeah.

[D]

You don't think it was me doing the sitcom the Millers after I did Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

[B]

Well, maybe it's. And let me tell you, this BoJack thing that I'm hearing is coming. It's coming on soon, right? Is.

[D]

I feel so responsible when you say tons of bad stuff. I'm like, God, I'm sorry. Responsible for so much of it.

[E]

Trust me. Trust me.

[B]

We've all got.

[E]

I've. I've done my share of bad stuff.

[D]

So then. So then what? So now. So now you're sitting here, you're kind of. You're kind of in the catbird seat because you. You. You. You get to kind of pick and choose. You can do whatever you want. You can do TV and film, and you've got a new appreciation for it, and you've. As you said, you've kind of relieved the pressure of making yourself crazy. So when you look at, and I guess now being a grandparent, now you're a grandmother.

[B]

Yeah, domestic life is at its zenith.

[D]

Is life, work, balance the most important? Is that the first decision?

[E]

Yeah, yeah it is. And you know, now, but it obviously wasn't when I committed to do all this work. I didn't know I was gonna be a grandmother then. And you know, I, I thought, wow, it's my time now. I can, I can go do what I want to do. And yeah.

[B]

We'Ll be right back.

[D]

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[B]

How good are you and your husband at working out this balance? Cause that's a tricky part too. Cause you're both incredibly busy.

[D]

He's very busy as well.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

For my sister. For Tracy, please.

[B]

Sean.

[A]

For my sister who might not know. Your husband is David Kelly.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[E]

I gotta say, he's been amazing. And I. I said to him when again all this work was coming up, I'm like. I'm, like, going to Montana and Texas for four months out of the year. I'm like, okay, I'm not doing this unless you're with me. And don't say you're gonna be with me and then come for like a couple weeks and then go away from. No, no, you're with me. And he's been with me, really. And I couldn't have. I couldn't have because he can write anywhere.

[B]

Right. But he's doing much more than right. He's directing, he's producing, he's doing different stuff.

[D]

Showrunning.

[E]

He doesn't direct.

[B]

Well, sort of by proxy at times. Yes, maybe. Well, he's.

[E]

He's pretty. He's pretty. I just worked for. I just worked with him for the. Worked for him. With him for the first time, really, on Margot's Got Money Troubles. And I did. It was so fun. And I was very. I've never been really eager to work with him because I so cherish my Marriage. And sometimes that's the kiss of death to work together and don't be on the COVID of People magazine together because you'll be divorced next year.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

[E]

So, I mean, how many times have we seen that?

[B]

So it was nerve wracking as it approached. Yeah. Did you guys lay down any sort of like, listen, this is how you could trigger me if you do this. And I know that the door to.

[D]

My honeywagon is closed.

[E]

He sort of set a boundary early on when I was asking maybe too many questions. And.

[A]

Do you really think she.

[B]

You'd say that, David?

[E]

And he's like, you know, I think that's a good question for the director.

[B]

Oh, no.

[E]

After he did that a couple times, I'm like, okay, I get it. I get it. And that was actually really good. But the truth is, this character is so well written. It's like, I was born to play this part, really. She is like a Real Housewife of Fullerton wannabe. I grew up in Orange County.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

I love, love, love, love her. Her name is Cheyenne and she works at Bloomingdale's in the cosmetics department.

[A]

That's brilliant.

[E]

And single mom. Elle.

[A]

Clearly.

[B]

Clearly.

[E]

Elle Fanning is my dad.

[A]

I didn't get it.

[B]

You can move on.

[A]

I just found out.

[E]

Anyhoo, so it was. And also, gosh, how often do you get to work in Los Angeles and stay home?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

I don't know where you guys live.

[B]

Will, are you shooting? You're not shooting? I thought you'd go in Montana.

[E]

But I'm not shooting right now.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

I'm going to Montana.

[B]

When you worked with David, it was in la.

[E]

It was in la.

[B]

Got it. Okay, great.

[D]

So, Michelle, sometimes I do this and I ask people who have, as Sean said, such a wide sort of huge breadth of work, is there a role. Is there a. Not a role? Maybe a role and. Or film that you did of one of these great films? Is there one. Do you have. Have a favorite? And it's okay.

[E]

I don't. I mean, I have. I. I have. I have a few that are of my favorites, but it's. Then it's bad if I don't mention some, and then the director's gonna be like, oh, you didn't mention mine.

[D]

Let's assume that you love them all. Let's assume you love them all. But you love one.

[E]

You know, there's. There's the. The film that I actually love the most, and then there's the performance that maybe I don't hate. And then we want this. Then there's the experience.

[B]

We want all three of those.

[D]

All three. All three.

[B]

I like all three of those.

[E]

Experience would be, I think, a toss up of Married to the Mob. And honestly, Margot's got money troubles. It was just ton of fun. And my favorite film, maybe Baker Boys, maybe.

[A]

Yeah, I gotta check.

[E]

That might be my favorite performance as well.

[D]

Double Dip as well.

[A]

Might be so famous too.

[E]

Don't you think that would make a great sequel? Like, where are these people?

[D]

Yes, right.

[A]

That's a great idea.

[E]

I can't get. I can't get Steve to do it. It so.

[B]

Well, anyway, just say David will take care of it.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Can I ask you. Can I just nerd out just for a second?

[D]

Are we going back to Greece, too?

[A]

Yeah, Greece too. Just because I never. Just like a couple questions because I'm sure it's never going to happen again in my life.

[D]

Sorry, Michelle. This is where we take questions from fans. Go ahead.

[B]

Go ahead, caller.

[A]

No, like, what was it like? What was it like knowing how big the first one was? And then were you, like, scared to do the. In the sequel? Like, to be like, oh, my God, Grease was such a massive thing. No, come on, it was a big deal to me as a kid.

[E]

No, it's a really good question. And of course I was terrified.

[A]

Yeah, but you were so good in it.

[E]

You were so good, you know, but, you know, look, it's John Travolta, Olivia Newton John. And, you know, and it was, you know, the first one, and it was amazing. And such a cult following and so successful. And then you got me and this kid Matt. They don't know who we are. And they're taking out ads that say too hot. And I'm like, don't say that. What if they don't think I'm hot? Okay, like, don't tell them I'm hot. Anyway, so it was. It was. It was. Yeah.

[A]

Was it fun to make?

[E]

Yeah. Dancing and singing. I loved all that because I do love to dance and I love to sing, but.

[D]

Sean, stop sweating.

[E]

I know.

[D]

God, it's so. We could see you sweating.

[B]

We can see the towel just below the frame.

[D]

Damn it. Cool it off, man.

[B]

As soon as she mentioned Maxwell, it just exploded.

[A]

By the way, you know, I shot for you and then I stayed for Maxwell.

[D]

Yeah, a couple bars.

[E]

It was really more about Max.

[A]

Name a song. I know. I have a lot of work. Words.

[B]

Opener. Give us the opener. Sean Medley.

[A]

No, what's the opener? What's the opening song? School's out for no is a school. It was about a school. Oh, God, I can't remember.

[B]

Ramones, isn't it? School's up for summer.

[A]

No. Yeah. No, it was. Yeah. It was this. It was this.

[E]

This.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Shaking it up. That's right.

[E]

Anyways, I still have my bowling ball.

[A]

No, you don't.

[E]

I do. And the bowling ball. Case.

[A]

We're gonna score tonight.

[E]

That's it.

[A]

We're gonna rock, we're gonna roll we're gonna bop, we're gonna bow, we're gonna sing. Scone, Scone, Scone, Scone, Scone.

[B]

Oh, my God, I love it. Well done, Michelle. Do you grab a little keepsake from every single job?

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Not always. Not always. Sometimes there's.

[A]

Do you have the dress from Baker Boys?

[E]

You know, I don't. Oh, you have to get that dress. I have some of the costumes from Married the Mom. I don't always keep them because.

[B]

What about a script?

[E]

I just take up room.

[B]

Do you keep the script?

[E]

Like my scrapbook.

[B]

Okay, so you got a stack of them, like, on a wall somewhere. Do you have them, like, bound and stuff like that?

[E]

No, they kind of got mildewy and I've been trying to clean.

[D]

Do you archive stuff?

[E]

No, I just. No, I don't. I just don't have time.

[B]

It's all up here. Right?

[D]

Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I like that. You don't. I do want to follow up before we let you go, because Jason obviously.

[E]

Has a time crunch.

[D]

Yeah, he has a time crunch.

[A]

He's gotta get out, man.

[D]

Cause he's gotta get out.

[E]

And, Jason, by the way, I was worried. I was meaning to say. I'm sorry, Maybe. Are you going to a doctor to address your gastrointestinal issues?

[B]

Yeah, well, you know, just when I get. The back is so stiff, when I get up in the morning, it just. Sometimes the valve gets a little loose.

[E]

I understand. Yeah.

[D]

Damn it, man.

[B]

Michelle understands. Okay. We're all chopped a little.

[E]

We're all chopped, baby. We're all chopped.

[D]

We're all chopped.

[E]

That's a good T shirt.

[B]

Great show. Great show, by the way.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Wait, Will, you had a killer closer. Go ahead.

[D]

No, not a killer closer, but I just want to ask you because we. We only. We briefly touched upon Scarface that became this huge, of course, iconic film. Brian De Palma. You and Al Pacino didn't care for it.

[B]

We have a rogue Italian critic in the back of the theater in the process of getting kicked out.

[D]

Finally, a question about Scarface.

[B]

So.

[D]

So you couldn't have imagined. I. I imagine what the cultural impact that Scarface had and continues to have to this day. I mean, it's just. It's phenomenal. Right.

[B]

They're talking about remaking it. Right. Or doing another.

[E]

I think they're. I did hear something about that. It. Was it a television show or was it a new movie? I forget, but I did. That was a couple years ago. No.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it comes up every once in a while. Universal and Anton Fuqua.

[E]

I didn't have any idea it would become sort of a cultural phenomenon in the way that it. And in the way that it did, too. It became this sort of cult kind of following. And so. And that was. And that was. Boy, that was really intense for me. I think. I want to say the shooting went on for six months. It went over like a couple. And I was playing a coke addict, so I was not eating.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

And I kept getting skinnier and skinnier and.

[D]

Jason. Anything.

[E]

The crew were bringing me bagels kind of.

[B]

And we're gonna have to reshoot about 20 pages. Will you please eat something?

[E]

Well, and then the scene at the end, you know, where she's in the restaurant and, like, kind of strung out and at her worst, kept getting pushed and pushed and pushed. And that was the scene where I really wanted to look my worst, anyway. And it was also very. Other than Mary Elizabeth, Master Antonio, like, we were the only women. And it was these. You know, it was like. It was like guys. You know, it was like. And gangster guys and, you know, machismo. And they were all kind of, you know, a little bit in character all the time.

[B]

Brian De Palmara.

[A]

Right.

[E]

So. And Brian. Yeah. And I was 20. I was so young. I mean, again, you're 20 years old. I was 23. I think the last credit I had was Greece 2.

[D]

Wow.

[E]

And I just didn't have a lot of experience under my belt. And I was terrified. Every. Every night I was terrified.

[B]

A lot of that was in. In Florida, right?

[E]

No, see, a lot of it was in la.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

Most of it was in la on stage, and we did some Florida location stuff.

[A]

Yeah, but terrified because of the newness of your career. Yeah.

[E]

I didn't feel worthy. I didn't feel like I had the chops. I didn't have any experience behind me. I had no. I had zero confidence. And Al will admit this, he didn't really want me for the part. And I didn't, I think, for a couple of months for it. And I knew he didn't want me Going into it, really. And one of my favorite stories is when I actually made him bleed during my screen test.

[D]

How so? Wait, how so?

[E]

I think, don't you want to just end there?

[D]

No, no, don't worry.

[B]

Cliffhanger.

[D]

God damn it.

[E]

Okay. Okay. So I'll try to make it brief. So I'm having to audition. First of all. I come in, I do a great reading for Brian De Palma and the casting director. And I was like. It just was a good. It just happened to be good.

[B]

Right.

[E]

Then they want to bring me back to meet Al. And anyway, over the course of two months, I just get worse and worse and worse because I'm just afraid.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[E]

And by the end, I'm back, and I don't blame him. He just was like, I'm bad. And Brian finally comes to me and says, you know. You know, doll, it's just. It's just not gonna work out. I'm like, I know, man. I'm sorry. Cause Brian really wanted me.

[B]

This is what's wrong with the audition process. Is it just the stakes get so high you can't do good?

[E]

Yeah. As disappointed. Well, you know that fear is the worst. Is a natural enemy. It's just as completely undermines you. So. So as much as disappointed as I was, I was so happy to be done with it. So, like, at least a month goes by, and I get a call. They want to bring me in to screen test. So I show up, and I don't even give a shit because I know I'm not getting this part.

[D]

Sure. Yeah.

[A]

So that's when you get them.

[B]

That's sexy indifference.

[E]

So show up. It was my best work of the film.

[D]

Of course.

[E]

And it's that restaurant scene where I explode at the end. And I swipe the table of the dishes and glasses break. The dishes break. Cut. There's blood everywhere.

[B]

Uh. Oh.

[E]

And they all run over to me to see where I've cut myself.

[B]

Yeah. Your hand.

[E]

Well, I didn't cut me. I cut Al.

[A]

Wow.

[E]

I thought, well, there goes that part.

[B]

And he's just staring at you anyway.

[E]

Actually, I think that was the day he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Your womb, I think. Yeah.

[E]

She's not bad.

[A]

So, Charlie. Yeah. And so wait. Wow. So was it. Was it. Did you cut him bad? And.

[E]

And I cut his. I think I cut him in the finger or something.

[A]

Wow. And you went for it. You went for it. That's why. Yeah. I love that. I love that.

[E]

Wow.

[B]

There's the lesson.

[D]

Yeah, there's the lesson.

[B]

You Gotta give a little less shit.

[A]

Yeah. And if I went for it, more people wouldn't fall asleep in the front row.

[E]

Exactly.

[D]

Once you start breaking some glass, you know, make them say hello to your little friend.

[B]

Make sure the front row's bleeding. Shawnee, come on.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So before you show up, you know, to do your performance, just. That's your mantra. I don't give a shit.

[A]

I'll cut.

[D]

Oh, don't worry. You watch.

[E]

Just cut him.

[B]

I'll cut everybody while he's chewing.

[D]

Yeah. Michelle, thank you. We have taken up again, way too.

[E]

Much of your time, and Jason is late for his meeting. Thanks, guys.

[B]

That's all right.

[E]

It's really fun.

[D]

Michelle, what a pleasure. Thank you so much for doing this.

[A]

Huge pleasure for me, too. You're the greatest.

[B]

It's such a thrill, such a.

[E]

Such.

[B]

Such an honor, truly.

[E]

Thank you so much for having me.

[B]

Thank you, Michelle. Thank you. Have a great rest of the day, okay.

[D]

Till I see you again. Bye.

[E]

Bye. Am I supposed to stay on? Am I supposed to do something?

[B]

Slam your laptop closed.

[E]

Okay.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

All right.

[A]

Bye.

[D]

Bye.

[E]

Bye. Bye.

[B]

Bye. Bye. Thanks. Well, Will.

[D]

Okay. Okay. So I pulled it off, huh?

[B]

Pretty, pretty, pretty. Nice.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

No. Did that cost you any money? Like, you got. You got to pay to get guests like that?

[D]

I mean, she. I mean, God, how great is she? How cool is she?

[B]

Cool?

[D]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[A]

I mean, aside from the.

[B]

She's great. Like, did I seem nervous? No, that is. Wow. What a cool lady.

[A]

The talent and the looks and the. Everything she has.

[D]

She's just cool, like, so down to earth. So cool. Just. It's just amazing. Got it all. And then, Jason, you did put it really well, which is like. Or. Or was it. It. One of you talking about?

[B]

It was probably me about.

[D]

About how she's such a great performer. She's such a great actress.

[A]

That.

[D]

That is the thing that shines.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You always went for the acting, and the beauty was just sort of just a great little side as opposed to. There are some actors, male and female, that I. People do go to see, like, oh, look, I want my handsome movie star, you know, like, and I just want to, you know, and. And. And then you leave and it's like, you know, there was not. No performance stays with you.

[D]

But you.

[B]

You like the eye candy. She's just like. She's an incredible actor.

[A]

Do you think that was okay that I brought up Grease 2 so much?

[B]

Oh, we'll cut that out.

[D]

Yeah, by.

[B]

Cut all. Most of your stuff.

[D]

What. By what measures you Mean, okay. Like, it was like.

[A]

No, I know. Like, I couldn't tell.

[D]

I mean, embarrassing for you. And it was. Yeah, it was.

[B]

Clowning you the whole time.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That movie was so huge to me as a kid.

[B]

No, we don't need more. We don't need more. No, I'm actually jealous. I never saw that one. I saw the first Grease seven times in a row, just sitting in my theater chair with my. My sister. Just a couple weeks ago out in the Valley, this was what we were probably 11, 12, something like that.

[D]

Were you, like, sharing a bag? What was going on?

[B]

The only reason we left is because the lighter ran out of butane. So we're like, let's get the out of here. This is out in the West Valley in the early 80s, and it was cheap. Stuff was cheap.

[A]

So. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way. There's no other reason you would stay and watch it seven times in a row.

[B]

Oh, the theater's cool. You don't want to be sweating while you're tweaking out there in the Valley. It's like, let John and Olivia just kind of serenade you while you just watch it again.

[D]

Watch it again. Watch it again.

[A]

That is hilarious. And you watched it that many times before you said.

[B]

Oh, God. I. Well, I listen. Yeah. Before I turned to my.

[D]

To my sister, somebody grabbed the wheel of a bus. Like, somebody. A passenger reached up and grabbed the wheel.

[B]

My.

[A]

Stop.

[D]

What? Say goodbye. Oh, my God.

[B]

Wait, wait. Sean, if you were to say bye in. In. In a Grease type of song. Oh, here we go. How would that.

[D]

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