Jason Bateman (1:53)

Smart. Less.

Michael Grant (1:59)

Smart.

Jason Bateman (2:01)

Less.

Michael Grant (2:04)

How you. Are you feeling better today, Jason?

Jason Bateman (2:06)

Look at him.

Will Arnett (2:07)

Not really.

Jason Bateman (2:08)

Oh.

Will Arnett (2:09)

Dr. Figured, you know, since I had Covid.

Jason Bateman (2:12)

Sure.

Will Arnett (2:12)

And then. So the. The immunity system, whatever.

Jason Bateman (2:15)

You're still. You're still seeing. Dr. Figured.

Will Arnett (2:18)

Yeah, she figured that my system's all run down, and so I. That's why I got the head cold from Maple right afterwards. I know why I can't lick it.

Jason Bateman (2:29)

Sounds like she went to a hell of a med school to put that together, you know? Oh.

Will Arnett (2:34)

Yet she can't give me anything to fix it.

Michael Grant (2:36)

What about. Wow.

Jason Bateman (2:38)

But.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (2:38)

But.

Michael Grant (2:38)

But maybe it's because it's. You finally calmed down for a sec. Like, you were so busy, and now.

Will Arnett (2:42)

It'S like, yeah, right. Could be it. And I do. I do like to do nothing, so.

Jason Bateman (2:46)

Yeah, it suits you.

Will Arnett (2:48)

Yeah.

Michael Grant (2:48)

You know, Feel better tomorrow. You feel a little better today? Yeah.

Jason Bateman (2:51)

You sound like.

Will Arnett (2:52)

Yeah. And. Yeah. How do I. I shouldn't be doing.

Jason Bateman (2:55)

You look great. You always look great. No, you look great. Thank God you had all that surgery Right. All that surgery covers up. You did all that face work. Yeah.

Will Arnett (3:04)

This time it's really settled.

Jason Bateman (3:07)

Your face is really settled, dude. I wanted to say that the other day.

Will Arnett (3:12)

Do I still look surprised? I think I had them. I stitched the eyebrows up too high.

Michael Grant (3:18)

What do you take, Jade? What do you take when you feel like that? Do you take. Yesterday you took theraflu? I used to take that all the time. And then they discontinued it.

Will Arnett (3:26)

No, I, I, I got a black market. Oh, you did.

Jason Bateman (3:29)

I do. I take a. I take one of those Sudafeds with all. Everybody's like, well, this got all the heavy duty. I'm like, yeah, I want the thing that gets me all.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (3:35)

Yeah, yeah.

Michael Grant (3:36)

You have to ask for that.

Jason Bateman (3:38)

They got to unlock it. Are you sure you want. I'm like, look, I'm not making meth in my bathtub, man. I'm just trying to get through today.

Will Arnett (3:44)

Right, but does it knock you out and make you all sleep? I guess that's not.

Jason Bateman (3:46)

No, it gets you all. Gets you all jazzed up, and then you crash and you feel like. But you kind of get through the.

Michael Grant (3:52)

Day, but it's like, yeah, it's like a shot of prednisone or something.

Will Arnett (3:55)

What you guys do? Last night.

Jason Bateman (3:58)

Last night we went to. We went and put the, the lights up on a tree at our friend's house.

Will Arnett (4:02)

Just a various random tree.

Jason Bateman (4:05)

Just a random way. I go around the neighborhoods. And have you ever.

Will Arnett (4:09)

You know what I said to Maple the other day? She said, you know, you hear all these Christmas. Because I always have the Christmas music on in the car from Thanksgiving forward. It's all.

Michael Grant (4:17)

I love that. I love that.

Will Arnett (4:18)

And she's like, what about where. Where do they do Christmas caroling in the, in the world? And I said, well, just in everyone's neighborhood. I said, you should do that with your friends. You should just, like, just start walking around some neighborhood, and you just stop on the sidewalk in front of someone's house, and you just start singing. And the people inside kind of hear it. They come to the door of the window, and they look. They're charmed and they're warmed, and it's that spirit. And she's like, oh, I'm gonna do that. So I think she's gonna do that next year. It's too late now to learn the songs and everything.

Michael Grant (4:45)

What do you mean, learn the songs?

Jason Bateman (4:46)

Read them off the book.

Michael Grant (4:48)

We wish you a merry Christmas all night Remember Sean?

Will Arnett (4:51)

You used to do that at your house. He used to sit behind the Piano.

Jason Bateman (4:53)

Like it. Jb, I would love to see your face if a bunch of people came singing out your door. You'd be like, get the hell out of here.

Michael Grant (4:59)

What the.

Will Arnett (5:00)

I get out my BB gun.

Jason Bateman (5:01)

Yeah. Trying to watch Jen Sacki right now. You're Interrupt Maddow.

Michael Grant (5:12)

I paused MSNBC for this.

Will Arnett (5:15)

What's going on?

Jason Bateman (5:17)

I tell you, you can sing.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (5:18)

Oh, this is.

Will Arnett (5:19)

Look at the segue.

Jason Bateman (5:21)

I tell you who can make a lot of music that. That people would. That would give anything to see them outside their door, including me. I would give almost anything. These do.

Will Arnett (5:29)

They make beautiful music.

Jason Bateman (5:30)

Our guests today are two musicians who helped they really change the direction of music, in my view, and a lot. I'm not alone in that. In that. One is a songwriter whose work showed that songs could be everything from melodic to abrasive to emotionally direct. And the other is a guitarist whose approaches can be only described as textured and full of tension and respect.

Will Arnett (5:59)

Never heard you say textured.

Jason Bateman (6:00)

I know. I'm so excited. I'm, like, buzzing a little bit. Ye. Yeah. I'm just. Together these guys, they created a band whose influence could be heard across decades of music. Shaping and influencing artists from Nirvana to Radiohead, Jason. Just every sort of. I think everybody who came after them had to be influenced by them. Certainly. They've just. Their music has just been sort of. Their legend has grown since the moment they started making music. Please welcome Charles Thompson, also known as Black Francis, and Joey Santiago. They are Pixies.

Will Arnett (6:36)

Oh, wow. Jesus Christ. Well, what have you done, you guys.

Joey Santiago (6:41)

Good morning, Ben.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (6:43)

Everybody else, dude.

Will Arnett (6:45)

Oh, Willie.

Jason Bateman (6:46)

Guys.

Will Arnett (6:47)

Willie, Will, are your pants even on?

Jason Bateman (6:51)

I hope that's okay. They weren't supposed to know, man.

Will Arnett (6:54)

Hey, Will. Sitting on plastic, this Will. Oh, this is.

Jason Bateman (6:58)

Gentlemen. Joey. I heard you sipping your coffee or tea or whatever you've got. Both of you. Charles, you got one going too. It's fresh. Where are we, first of all? Where are we finding you guys today? Where? Let's just start there, where we are now.

Joey Santiago (7:13)

I'm in Los Angeles.

Jason Bateman (7:14)

Beautiful.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (7:15)

Hey, Joe. Did you get home okay?

Joey Santiago (7:18)

Yeah.

Jason Bateman (7:18)

Oh, no.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (7:19)

Oh, wow.

Will Arnett (7:21)

Tell us what happened.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (7:22)

I mean, because I'm not in Los Angeles. I'm in Mass. I'm in. In Northampton, Massachusetts. But we just. I don't know. I feel like I just got home, like last night, but really, I guess we ended a couple weeks ago. But it took me a couple weeks to get home.

Will Arnett (7:40)

And you walked.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (7:41)

So now Joey, I just haven't talked to him since the last time we were.

Jason Bateman (7:45)

Wait, you Guys haven't talked since you were like, what, doing a show or something?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (7:48)

Were you guys exactly like we were in Honolulu? We were like, all right, see you later. All right.

Will Arnett (7:52)

Honolulu, well done.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (7:54)

And so I was like, oh, hey, Joe, where are you? Did you go home? I went home. I mean, I went home two weeks to get here. Anyway. I'm sorry.

Michael Grant (8:01)

No, I like this.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (8:04)

Having a offshoot conversation already here.

Jason Bateman (8:07)

Sorry. No, Charles, you have to know that we. You heard us catching up. This is where we catch up with each other too.

Will Arnett (8:12)

Exactly. Do your housekeeping right now.

Joey Santiago (8:14)

We'll wait.

Jason Bateman (8:15)

Let's get into some admin. Joe, how did you got home okay?

Joey Santiago (8:19)

Yeah, thank God. Yeah. I mean non stop. If I would have stopped, it would have been the Pacific Ocean.

Will Arnett (8:26)

Yeah, exactly.

Jason Bateman (8:27)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will Arnett (8:28)

All right, what about. It's 11 hour flight over there to Massachusetts though, right? That's a big trip.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (8:34)

With a bunch of other big trips though that were right behind it. So it was sort of. I did binge watch. I'm getting very cranky with the, the media available. I like it when I have, I have to load. I have to download a bunch of YouTube videos to get me through those like 12 hour flights and stuff. And, and I feel terrible. I wish I had more patience for the films or television programs, but I get all. I don't want to watch this. So then I change it. I don't want to watch this. So then I.

Jason Bateman (9:12)

What'd you binge watch? What'd you get to.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (9:13)

I have so many options, you know, like I remember. Do you remember People's Express airlines?

Jason Bateman (9:19)

Sure.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (9:19)

Yeah. You could, I think it was like $149 and you paid. Didn't you pay like when you got on the plane? Yeah, like you paid like some guy who came down the aisle. And I remember paying in cash.

Will Arnett (9:33)

Yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (9:34)

Like snacks to fly to la. And you brought, you, you could bring a lunch, you brought. Everyone brought back a brown bag to lunch.

Jason Bateman (9:41)

It was, it was, it was, it was an economical way to fly. I remember we. Because I grew up in Toronto and they used to do. You could go to New York, so you. We'd take a bus to Buffalo airport and then you could pay and it was like 100 bucks to fly to New York from Buffalo.

Joey Santiago (9:54)

There's an airline out there that, that's proposing you could stand up and apparently.

Will Arnett (10:00)

On this airline you can roll the windows down too. You can, that's what they said. They fly at a real low altitude. Roll the windows down, relax.

Michael Grant (10:11)

You know what? I was amazed by I just learned like a year ago, like, you know, when you look at the stats when you're flying that it's like 70 below zero up there. Wow. Oh, outside. I didn't know it was that cold outside. I don't know.

Jason Bateman (10:24)

Sure, it's really cold when you get up there. Have you ever seen, have you ever seen videos of people climbing mountains before?

Michael Grant (10:29)

Yeah, but it's not seven.

Jason Bateman (10:31)

I mean, they're not generally, they're not in Hawaiian shirts most of the time. I don't know if you notice that they're not in Speedos when they're going up Everest. Dude.

Will Arnett (10:37)

This would have been a good question for us to ask. What was that scientist we had on that? I, I marveled. I, I, I really impressed him with my skills, my, my questions and stuff.

Michael Grant (10:46)

Neil DeGrasse.

Will Arnett (10:47)

Yeah, this would have been a good question for him since we're closer to the sun. Why is it.

Jason Bateman (10:51)

Listen, listen, we've got Pixies on. We're wasting time. We're talking about. Guys, this is really cool, gentlemen. This is really, really cool. So you guys, I love when people, when great things start from basically chance encounters, if you will. You guys were live next door to each other. Is that true?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (11:10)

There's this, well, it's, there's. What's the name of that? That's that dormitory, Joe.

Joey Santiago (11:15)

That's Sylvan.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (11:17)

Sylvan. Sylvan. At UMass Amherst, there's like three buildings called Sylvan or whatever, so. Well, yeah, I guess they're all Sylvan anyway. What do they call those, Joe? They're suites.

Joey Santiago (11:29)

Right?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (11:30)

They're. You have like seven roommates, you know, it's like a suite, you know, and you share. It's kind of like a little. They're like. It's like a cinder block building. It's literally like a. I should say it's like a prison, because I've never been to prison, but it's like kind of like a prison, you know, like, without bars, but it's like, you know, really, you know, rudimentary kind of. There was like a living room, and then there's like a. There's like three or four bedrooms, and then there's a bathroom, shower area. And there's about seven of us in a suite, you know, and so we were in the same suite at our, at our freshman year.

Jason Bateman (12:08)

You just freaked Jason out because he's thinking about the communal shower already. I saw his arms go up. Jason, we're coming. Yeah, you're out. You're gone.

Will Arnett (12:16)

I'M just not going to shower until junior year when I have my own apartment.

Jason Bateman (12:23)

So this is at you. This is at UMass Amherst.

Joey Santiago (12:26)

Yeah.

Jason Bateman (12:27)

And this is. What year is this? Like, 84, am I going to say? Or is it earlier?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (12:31)

Something like that. Yeah.

Joey Santiago (12:32)

83.

Jason Bateman (12:33)

83. 84. You guys are sharing this cinder block suite as Charles. You made it sound so beautiful. And so you guys are in there and. And what happens? Who goes, hey, do you want to start a band? Like, I just love this.

Joey Santiago (12:47)

Charles was playing. You had your acoustic guitar already, and you were playing.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (12:52)

I had some annoying songs that I would, like, kind of play around the dormitory on a regular basis. And Joey was kind enough to kind of sit in and kind of plunk along. He got his guitar out and, you know, neither one of us were like, what you call, you know, guitar weenies or whatever, you know, where we were like, hanging out, playing the guitar all the time. We weren't that. We. We appreciate the art form, but we weren't like, you know, we weren't beholden to it or anything.

Will Arnett (13:21)

Were you looking for people to listen? Did you care?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (13:24)

I don't know. We, like, we. I think we were pretty. Like, we didn't know what we wanted. I think that, like, I remember I worked at the university campus store, and, you know, they had the. The radio on, you know, win tickets tonight, you know, And I remember it was James Taylor. I think it was. And nothing against James Taylor, but, you know, at that time, that wasn't necessarily at the top of my list, but. Call now. I called from the. From the. From the back room, and I. They gave me a pair of tickets. Joe, do you want to go see James Taylor tonight? Okay. You know, it was all kind of like, nothing to do. It was like, okay, let's do that. And, like, even when we started being a band dealing with, like, record company types, they would make a suggestion and we would say, like, okay. You know, because we were just. We didn't really know how anything worked. And so it was all good. It was like. It was action. It was something that was gonna happen, you know?

Michael Grant (14:30)

Yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (14:30)

So anyway, I kind of lost my point there.

Jason Bateman (14:32)

No, no, no, you're right on point. And I was gonna say, so you guys, you're there, you're kind of. You're playing, for lack of a better term, jamming, as dumb as that sounds. But you are. Thank you, Jason. So that you guys, you're making stuff, and then you guys, I'm gonna kind of jump a little bit. You make. What's Known as the Purple Tapes.

Will Arnett (14:53)

Right.

Jason Bateman (14:53)

It was sort of like. It was kind of like a demo, but not really if I'm kind of right. It was like the first time you recorded. My question is, what was the first time that you guys said, all right, we're kind of making the. Let's write a song? Or did you kind of just by mistake write a song? Or did you go out to write the. To make these songs? Like, how did. How did that happen? I love the idea of, like, we're kind of aligned. And I got.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (15:19)

Well, we got separated a little bit because he was back in the. In Amherst. And then I went to San Juan, Puerto Rico, for. I was supposed to go for the year, but about halfway through, I hadn't even gone to a class, and I wrote him a letter. Like, do you remember? Like, we used to write letters? I forgot that we used to write letters, but I wrote. I think I wrote Joe a letter saying, let's meet in Boston and we'll start the band finally. And he wrote back and said, okay, we'll see you in January.

Jason Bateman (15:51)

You know what I mean?

Joey Santiago (15:52)

By the way, Charles, I found the letters or anything.

Jason Bateman (15:57)

Wait, Joe, what happened?

Joey Santiago (15:58)

I found the letter.

Jason Bateman (16:00)

No way.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (16:01)

Oh, yeah.

Joey Santiago (16:02)

My. My. My wife wanted to go, or my girlfriend, newly married, but she wanted to go over my trunk at my. At the house that I grew up in. I mean, there's nothing in there. And then we went. Went in, and it's like, we. The letter is in here.

Michael Grant (16:21)

That's cool.

Jason Bateman (16:21)

So. So, Joe, you get this letter from Charles, and you're like. And you're like, what? It kind of gets. You're like, okay, cool. Like, you start thinking about this.

Joey Santiago (16:31)

It was goading me to drop out. Yeah.

Jason Bateman (16:35)

What.

Will Arnett (16:35)

What were you guys studying in school? Like, was there. Was there. Was there a path that you guys had to kind of derail to. To pursue the. The band?

Joey Santiago (16:43)

I was undeclared until the last moment.

Will Arnett (16:47)

Yeah.

Joey Santiago (16:48)

There was this. A spoof on April 1 that the people, the undeclared, were going to go to some war in Granada or something. And I go, I remember that. I gotta find a major or you're.

Will Arnett (17:08)

Gonna have to serve in Grenada.

Joey Santiago (17:09)

Yeah. So I. I just picked economics just to get out. Just to get out of the war. But. But it was all. It was a spoof, you know.

Jason Bateman (17:18)

What about you, Charles?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (17:19)

I was trying to remember what I. What happened when they did that spoof. That's the same thing. They caused us to think about the bigger questions because they. It was the college Newspaper there, right? And you last called the Collegiate, whatever the it was called. But it was. And it was an April Fool's. And then it was like, yeah, it's going to be a draft.

Jason Bateman (17:42)

Fuck.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (17:44)

You know, you believe. You believe.

Will Arnett (17:47)

I love that the paper knew how pliable the student body was.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (17:51)

Yeah, yeah, man. But, yeah, I was like, thinking about Canada and stuff and, you know, we.

Jason Bateman (17:57)

Would have welcomed you, like, just right.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (17:58)

I mean, didn't care about, like, having to quit school. I think we were both, like, looking for, like, reasons to drop out of school because school was like. It was okay, but it. I don't know, it didn't kind of ring the bell quite.

Will Arnett (18:11)

But clearly you guys weren't novices at playing music, right? At this point. You guys were. You kind of knew what you were doing.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (18:18)

No, no, no.

Will Arnett (18:18)

A little bit. You knew some chords. How about that?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (18:21)

Yeah, yeah. Like, I mean in the best. I mean that in the best possible way. I don't mean that it was bad that we didn't know we were doing, but it wasn't like we were like, shit, we've been like slaving away in the. You know, down in the. In the basement, you know, for. For so many months now or so many years or. No, it was none of that. It was just like a little rinky. Dink, dink, dink once in a while. Then let's drop out of school, start a band. See what that. See if that happens.

Michael Grant (18:45)

It's amazing.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (18:46)

I meet you in Boston and we met there. And he had an apartment on one side of the park. Where was. You were over there by Berkeley School of Music. Joe. Remember you had that brown apartment. You had that epiphany where everything was brown in your life. We'll get you back to the Charles.

Joey Santiago (19:04)

Why am I so depressed? And you go in my fucking place. It's all brown. It's like, this could be the reason right here. Everything's brown.

Jason Bateman (19:14)

So you guys. So you guys come back to. And then. And then first and I feel guilty.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (19:18)

Cause Joey, like, today, sometimes he'll don the brown and he'll look nice. You know what I mean? And he'll say, shit, you know, Joey looks nice and he's wearing brown. And I gave him shit about everything being brown. And there was no. I was frowning on the brown. But there was nothing wrong with it. It was like he had it together.

Will Arnett (19:34)

Brown does get a very bad. A bad rap. I don't think it's fair.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (19:37)

But anyway, he lived in this brown apartment. And I lived in some Other apartment, like across the park. And we used to, we used to go to the. It was kind of naive, you know. We used to go to the club called the Ratskeller in Kenmore Square, which is no longer there, but it's an old venue because I believe my parents used to hang out there when they were teenagers. And anyway, we used to time how long the sets were for the bands because we had to figure out, well, how do we do that? That, you know, how do we get from just having a couple of, yeah, rinky dink tunes on our guitars here to having a full fledged band where we're doing what those kids are doing?

Jason Bateman (20:22)

Yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (20:22)

And so, yeah, we used to hang out in clubs in Taiwan. We need 25 minutes or whatever. And we need to. Who do we got to talk to? You know, you. Takes a while to figure out, oh, you gotta, you gotta send a, send a letter to that person. You gotta send the pets to the sound man's girlfriend, Maria. She's the one you have to get the tape to. Oh, here's the tape. You know, this process of getting the tape to the right person and then finally getting the Monday night and then the Tuesday night and then. I suppose it's the same thing with, with comedy or any. Anything, you know, was there a particular.

Will Arnett (20:57)

Was there a particular night that you had at the club that, that, that, that, that really caught on. You could feel the audience was like, oh, these guys are rad. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna sign up to come see them wherever they play next. Did you know that you had a fouling.

Jason Bateman (21:12)

Yeah, yeah. Following was kind of developing.

Will Arnett (21:14)

Yeah, yeah.

Joey Santiago (21:15)

I'll tell you, I'll tell you when we, when I knew we had something going.

Will Arnett (21:19)

Yeah, yeah.

Joey Santiago (21:20)

Remember we were practicing at your apartment there in Fenway and we heard a door knocking. The door knocked.

Will Arnett (21:28)

Yeah.

Joey Santiago (21:29)

And go, we're too loud. You know, they're gonna, they're gonna. It was the maintenance guy.

Will Arnett (21:34)

Yeah.

Joey Santiago (21:34)

And he, he. And we answered the door and goes, oh, I just wanted to tell you guys. You guys are sounding good.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (21:41)

Yeah, yeah.

Jason Bateman (21:44)

That's rad.

Will Arnett (21:46)

That's great.

Joey Santiago (21:47)

Yeah, yeah.

Will Arnett (21:48)

And this is a place right near Fenway.

Joey Santiago (21:50)

Yeah, yeah. You live in the Fenway at the time.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (21:52)

In the Fenway.

Joey Santiago (21:53)

Yeah, yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (21:54)

And that's where we had our first real. Well, our first real rehearsal space was somewhere else. But we eventually ended up with a. Like a place with a sewer cap in it. And it was down in the basement and there was a bunch of bands down there. But. But. And it was very expensive even then. You know, it was like $500 a month for like a little windowless room with a sewer cap in it. And then when it rained, there were all these like bugs suddenly like flying in the space and it smelled like shit. And it's just a. A God awful place. But that's like the best that we could get.

Jason Bateman (22:27)

Those are two. Two opportunities where Jason would have quit the band with the shower and then.

Michael Grant (22:31)

And then the sewage space and the rehearsal space.

Will Arnett (22:34)

Happy to Purdue. So see you guys at the mixing studio.

Jason Bateman (22:36)

But wait a second. Were you guys. Guys.

Joey Santiago (22:38)

See you at the Hollywood Bowl?

Jason Bateman (22:40)

Yeah. When did you guys. When did you guys become Pixies? What. What was the. What was the kind of. The moment you guys became. How did that. How did the name come up and. And what was the moment like? Okay, now we're Pixies.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (22:50)

Well, I suppose it would have been our second show officially, because the first show we were listed as the Puxies. And so officially we were the Pucksies in our first engagement. And then the second was a typo. They got the spelling right.

Joey Santiago (23:03)

Typo.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (23:04)

The Pixies. And. But I suppose Joey picked the name of the band. I don't know. He was saddled with that responsibility or took it upon himself. And you were you like you. We had a dictionary, right, Joe? Yeah. I'm using a dictionary right now to hold up my computer, but I believe you were in the Peas and there were a lot of pee names.

Jason Bateman (23:26)

You just threw a dart.

Joey Santiago (23:28)

It just looked good, you know, it had an X in the middle. Yeah, and that's funny. And that's really funny.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (23:34)

Also the.

Joey Santiago (23:36)

What's the definition? Mischievous. Mischievous little elf. I love that. So that's good. That's a good one.

Will Arnett (23:43)

That's what I start calling you. Willie.

Jason Bateman (23:45)

Thanks, man.

Will Arnett (23:46)

Yeah, you're my little pixie. Get over here. And we will be right back.

Michael Grant (23:57)

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Jason Bateman (26:40)

So you guys are playing, you're practicing, and you. And you were open when you guys. Sorry to go back to Purple tapes, but that was kind of your first recording. You guys were. Were you opening for other bands? Were you guys opening. Where did I read? A long time. Were you opening for throwing muses or something? Is that right? Do I have any of that right?

Joey Santiago (26:57)

Yeah, we, we did, sure.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (26:59)

Yeah. We used to open up for them because they were a little further along than we were with all of the showbiz, you know, so think they had a record out and they had a manager and stuff. But so, but that's how. So we got hooked up with them and some of their people, you know, some of their. Some of their crew and some of their manager. We had the same manager for a while, but the same producer for a little while. But I suppose that was. If there was any camaraderie, that would be the one band that was the. If we had any comrade. There wasn't a lot of camaraderie, really in Boston for us, I think. I think. I don't mean in a negative way even. I just mean that we didn't bother with that. It seemed very clear and apparent to us that we had to get out of Dodge in order for it to mean anything significant. We had to. Because those bands that come through that are from other places, you know, you see them come through. There was these Australian band. What are they called? Celibate Rifles. I remember the Celibate Rifles used to come through and they would have draw 50 people or whatever every time they played at the Rat Skiller. But it was like, wow. I don't know. They figured out how to get all the way here from Sydney or wherever they're from and they're playing a show and I don't know, it seems pretty fun to me. Like, so how do we get on that thing that they're doing? You know? And of course, you know, it's not that glamorous, but doesn't have to be glamorous when you're, you know, 20 years old. It's like you want to travel or meet people or whatever, you know, I.

Jason Bateman (28:39)

Think that there's also that thing of like, maybe you're from where you're from the place and you want to kind of be. There's something mysterious about a band that's coming from somewhere else. Like, you want to be from somewhere else. I don't know if that's. If that figures into it either. Like, to just sort of, like, add to the mystique. Is that part of it, or am I reading that wrong?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (28:58)

Well, I suppose Joey and I both probably had this. We're the same exact age, and we. We both have the same. He's originally from the Philippines and I'm originally from Massachusetts. But we both have the same kind of level of beetle knowledge and sort of Beatle sort of brainwashing or whatever, you know what I mean? And other stuff from the 60s and 70s. But just for the sake of conversation, putting Beatles at the front of that pack, you know. So by the time we met up when we were 17 or 18, it was like, oh, you like the Beatles? I like the Beatles, yeah. You know, it's kind of like we have that. If you love the Beatles, then You have some affection for that lore, right? For the Liverpool thing and the little club and when they went and played the strip clubs at Hamburg and blah, blah, blah blah, the Star Club and all of the history and all of that, you know, even if you've never been there, you have a lot of, of romantic feelings about those histories, you know. And so when you finally get to go on tour and then you're there and you're playing in those clubs in those same cities, you're kind of like going, ah, this is what it was like. And this is what it's like to record at the BBC radio studios or whatever, Whatever the experience is. Sometimes it matches right up with the, with your heroes. It'll be the same building, you know what I mean? The same stage or whatever. And so that's satisfying, you know, to be out on the map somewhere far from where you're from and be like, yep. But I'm doing the same thing that, yeah, you know, that the Fab Four did, you know, it's as corny as that, you know, but that's, that's the way it is.

Will Arnett (30:46)

Was there a band that was, that was really doing it when you guys got started that you kind of had your eye on and said, boy, if we, if we could kind of go in that direction, we, we'd, we, we'd have something that's, that's where we want to go.

Jason Bateman (31:00)

Well, they were doing it and, and, and, and in, in sort of tonally that you liked that you were like, oh, this is kind of. Was there any of that sort of.

Will Arnett (31:08)

Influence wise at that time?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (31:10)

I don't know, Joe. Dude, what did you think? I kept trying to think, did we talk about that kind of stuff?

Joey Santiago (31:16)

I like the Zulus. I remember the Zulus. I don't know that they had something, you know, just wild guitar, wild vocalist.

Jason Bateman (31:25)

Yeah, I kind of want to jump to. So you guys are doing this stuff, you're, you're, and you put this stuff together and you do the purple taste becomes basically. Come on, Pilgrim. Is that kind of, is that sort of right? And, and. But then your first real full length record is Surferosa, that's 1988. And that's kind of your introduction on a bigger scale to you guys, the world. And it's meant with a ton of critical acclaim like this, this puts you guys front and center and what's going on? I'll tell you something, man, knowing that you guys were coming on. I have a 15 year old, I have three sons. My 15 year old son is really into music. And we've been listening to you guys a lot the last couple days, like, in the car and stuff. And I keep going, oh, man, we're gonna have these guys on the podcast. And I was playing some of your songs, and I'm like, yeah, this record came out in 1988. My son's like, like, no way. Because it seems. It seems so relevant musically. It seems so press. Everything about it just. Just. It seems so, for lack of a better word, modern or current or whatever. And you realize kind of how ahead of the curve you guys were in terms of. Just sonically, I think.

Will Arnett (32:40)

Yeah.

Jason Bateman (32:40)

And. And. And. And I know that. And I'm sort of jumping all over the place. I know that since you guys, you put out five records in a really short period of time, and then you took a break for a number of years. And it was almost like, after you guys, the first time you broke up, people went like, oh, we. Oh, we missed that. We didn't realize at the time how great these dudes were, what these guys were doing.

Joey Santiago (33:06)

Fuck you.

Jason Bateman (33:07)

Yeah. Was there a sense of fuck you? Okay, fuck, let's hear it. Was there ever fuck you like, or we told you so, man? We were making. And when other bands started coming. Because I know everybody. I mentioned the intro, like, Kurt Cobain, the guys in Radiohead, They've all talked about how much you guys influenced them. And when you kind of like, is there a little bit of like. Yeah, we're trying to tell you that, man.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (33:31)

No, I don't know. I don't know if we take it all that seriously. You know, it's. I mean, we take it seriously. The sense that we thoroughly enjoy it.

Jason Bateman (33:40)

It.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (33:40)

You know what I mean? Really enjoy the whole routine, the whole whatever it is you got to do, you know what I mean? You know, play a show or. You know, I don't really like doing TV shows, but, you know, like, you got to do that sometimes, you know, go record a record and kind of, you know, you're in a friendly way, competing with some other people, maybe that are, I guess, contemporaries or whatever, you know, plus competing with your heroes and everything, you know, so it's all really fun, but, you know, you can't take it too seriously. I don't know. I don't know.

Jason Bateman (34:19)

Especially.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (34:19)

Cause I don't know if I. It's not like I feel like I went to. We went to music school for 20 years and slaved away for, you know, trying to just absorb all this stuff and worked so hard at it. I Mean, we just love it and we like doing it and we're not. I don't know. So if other people like it, it's like, oh, good. You know, I. I like you too.

Jason Bateman (34:44)

But Charles, you talk about. You talk about, like doing TV shows and stuff, and then I wanted to get in this. And this is all in no particular order because I'm just kind of vomiting my. My obsession with you guys. I was thinking about how much, you know, the influence you guys have had. Well, first of all, I was thinking, like in media, like, if you think about where is My Mind? Where you guys felt about where is My Mind being the last song comes up a lot, I'm sure. So I'm sorry, Forgive Me on, you know, it plays over the very end of Fight Club when. And then the kind of the world is falling apart. And that was, I think, for a lot of, like a new generation, like an introduction to you guys. Everybody was like, holy shit. And when you see a song that you wrote and I don't know, I'd like to know where your mind was when you wrote that compared to what it's been applied to. Because now it's sort of represented in a different way, sort of the end of the world and stuff. Do you. What is that sort of that gap between where it was when it started and when you wrote it and what it ended up sort of symbolizing later because of its use in the movie?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (35:50)

I don't really know. I don't have a lot of memory of putting it together or feeling that it was important so notable or anything like that. But my girlfriend was usually I played in the bathroom because it was the one private space in a little apartment, right? But she was in there doing makeup and said. And so I was in the bedroom with my guitar playing those chords and kind of working out maybe an arrangement of the song. And the. She stopped what she was doing and said, finish that song. She said, that's a good one. And I went, oh, okay. And. But that's the only memory I have of it, really. It just. I guess when I go back and I analyze it, it just sounds like a silly little folk song or something, you know, that. You know that I would have learned how to do stuff like that when I was at the. When I was in about third or fourth grade, I used to hang out with a lot of hippie kind of folk music types in Newton, Massachusetts, and they schooled us in a lot of sing alongy things that were kind of cool, actually, in retrospect, including Woody Guthrie and all that stuff, you know. But so to me, where is my mind kind of just fits in with that, you know. Here we go in third verse, Same as the first verse. Here we go, everybody. You know, it's not even a sensical song or anything. It's just like some delightful words to trip over, you know, while you're. While you're kind of skipping through a melody. And, you know, it's.

Jason Bateman (37:31)

I know. Well, that's. That. That's nice. But I. Which is. This is. That's interesting, because we all have. I mean, I've. I have had so many experiences listening to that song myself in sort of deep moments, in that sort of haunting. That Joey, that guitar, you know, that whole. Like, it just. And it's had another life, as you probably know, like, on social media and TikTok. Like, my kids see it all the time, that it's used in all these different ways. And it's. Again, Charles, I mean, I know it's so funny to hear you that, like. Yeah. You're just kind of coming up with it in a moment, and then it goes on to have this other application. It must be kind of trippy. Like, Jory, when you hear that guitar riff, it must come up. Sometimes you hear it and. And do you remember recording it? When you guys recorded it? Do you remember that day or thinking like, this is cool.

Joey Santiago (38:18)

I do remember it. I remember you showed us a song at your apartment. We had some Vietnamese food. And then that was the. That part came right away. And. And it was like, I'm done. That's what I said. Basically, I'm done. Cause I. I wanted to do that little Chuck Berry thing, but I didn't do it. A double note. That did it.

Jason Bateman (38:39)

Did it.

Joey Santiago (38:40)

So I just want to fit that in and go, ah, yeah, it's good.

Jason Bateman (38:44)

Is it.

Will Arnett (38:45)

Does it. Does it matter more or less for a song to have a long life of? Like, would you rather a song be super duper memorable because of its. Because of its tune, because of its melody or because of the words that it says? Like, you know, Charles, you were saying, it's like, you know, it's just like a couple of chords here and some words that you might. You know, like what. What is more important to you of the staying power of a song? The melody or the. Or the words that. What you're trying to say, you know, does it matter?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (39:19)

I mean, both work, right? I mean, you know, because you have people that feel very warm or poignant or whatever about a particular lyric or whatever. Or the meaning of a song. But then a lot of times it's just sounds and combinations of sounds and chords and puts you in a space, you know, things that give you the chills or the goosebumps and you. And, you know, I don't know. I mean, I don't think any of our. I mean, half of our audience is like, doesn't speak English, so they speak rock English, you know what I mean? So I suppose they can connect to it a little bit. But, you know, there's a lot of other stuff mixed in with it, I suppose when you. So I don't want to put too much. It's nice when words can be good, but. And when someone can declare, oh, this is indeed a fine libretto, you know, but at the end of the day, it's a rock music context. So it's like a. There's a lot of. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of other kind of elements that are kind of coming to the party also, you know what I mean?

Will Arnett (40:29)

Where's the most surprising place you have found a dedicated fan base? What corner of the world surprised you?

Jason Bateman (40:40)

Like, wow, like, do you, like, show up in Lisbon and all of a sudden you're like, wow, we got a lot, lot of f. Like, we found, we.

Will Arnett (40:46)

We found that in Iran. We're.

Jason Bateman (40:49)

We have a big audience, no joke. Yeah.

Will Arnett (40:51)

Really blew our minds.

Jason Bateman (40:52)

Yeah. We were like, what?

Will Arnett (40:53)

Like what?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (40:55)

We're lucky enough to have a pretty far flung audience, but I don't know that, like, I have. I don't know if we've discovered the. That enclave of like, you know, whatever, some place in. Somewhere way off of the beaten path, like, I don't know, like inner India or somewhere like that, you know, where they've somehow discovered our music or whatever. But we do play a lot of places. So I'm trying to think of some place we've played. I mean, talking about, like, Portugal. Like, we do really well down in Portugal.

Jason Bateman (41:28)

So there you go. What did you guys think about Charles and Joey? What do you guys think about? What was the way that people used to talk about? They used to try to, like. Because I hate when people get categorized, but when they try to like, call it, like the soft. Quiet. Quiet. Loud or whatever. What was the, the term that they used? Do you remember that they used to try to describe you guys? Loud. Qu. Yeah, loud. Quiet. Loud. Yeah. And when you heard that, were you like, oh, okay, well, that's just us, like, whatever.

Joey Santiago (42:01)

We certainly didn't invent it, you know, I mean, Cha Chowski's 1812 Overture had cannons.

Michael Grant (42:09)

You know, Sean, that's very true. Yeah.

Jason Bateman (42:15)

Yeah, go ahead.

Michael Grant (42:17)

I was just gonna say something about touring when you guys. So you guys still tour. It sounds like a lot. And when you do. Do you see each other before a show or do you see. Is the first time you see each other when you're on stage? Like, do you hang out backstage before the show?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (42:32)

Yeah, we hang out. About an hour before the show, we convene, and there's an espresso machine in our tour manager's office, and we all go there and get an espresso, and then we sit down in the dressing room. And then we have, like, some acoustic guitars there. There's one acoustic guitar. And then I think, Dave, you should just find something to tap on.

Joey Santiago (42:54)

And.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (42:55)

And then we. We sing for about a half an hour or 45 minutes and kind of go, oh, yeah, that's how we play. And then. And then we go on tour. And then. But, yeah, we don't really. We don't live in the same city anymore, so I think we have. I don't know if it's. I. I don't want to call it that. We're lazy, but we just been doing it for so long that we don't really. Yeah, it's okay.

Jason Bateman (43:17)

We're lazy.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (43:17)

Go over it over and over and over.

Jason Bateman (43:19)

We do you guys. Do you guys. So you guys. So I mentioned before, I kind of want to jump back. So you do five. Five records in. In a short amount of time, ending with Tromp Le Monde, which, again, another one of those records that. But years later, everybody's like, oh, man, this record is amazing. And we should have recognized it at the time. And you take a long break. You guys were basically broken up for, I don't know, 10 years, 12 years. And in that time, you all go off and do different things. Frank, you do. You do. I call you Frank because in that time, you were known as Frank Black. You put a bunch of records out as Frank Black, of course. Teenager of the Year. I didn't know this. Teenager of the Year, by the way, I just want to say, sort of Pixie's side note, if I can. Charles, I didn't know that you had actually been named Teenager of the Year in high school. I read that somewhere that. Is that true, that you were named Teenager of the Year?

Michael Grant (44:15)

What's that mean?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (44:16)

It's an award that was given at the high school that I graduated from. I don't know why it's given, but I think it's like a, it's like for the good kid, it's like for the good kid that didn't do that much, but like he stayed out of trouble and he seemed nice and so we got to give him something. And it's like a little, hey, you're the teenager of the year.

Joey Santiago (44:37)

I was the class ghost.

Jason Bateman (44:39)

Wait, is that true? Is that true, Joe?

Joey Santiago (44:41)

The class pictures of me one year on the yearbook. I refused to have my picture taken, anything. So I wasn't even, I didn't even exist.

Jason Bateman (44:50)

Joe, what a perfect pairing. You're the class ghost and the teenager of the year together. Like it's a, it's almost like meant to be, man. It's like written in the fucking star. And so then, so then you guys have this 12 year hiatus from Pixies and you get, is that what it was?

Will Arnett (45:06)

Was it, was it just a hiatus to do other stuff or was, or was there acrimony? And you guys were like, no, fuck.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (45:13)

This, let's, oh no, we broke up. The band was broken up and we had to go, you know, pay our dues, I suppose, because we didn't really pay our dues the first time around. I mean I'm not saying that it was all super easy, but you know, whatever. It was like every, every band's got five years. They as they say, and you did you do it all in five years and it all kind of implodes. And then we imploded and then so we were just, whatever, treading water for 12 years. And I, I, I mean not, not treading water because I, I know Kim actually had some pretty big success with, with her Breeders, with her band the Breeders and she had a big hit and everything so, and you know, I mean I, I was a, you know, I shouldn't sounds like a complaining, but I'm not, but you know, it's not like I, I was or we, we were doing all these amazing projects that were, you know, so successful, whatever. You just kind of hovering around and kind of staying in it as best as you can for a whole and you know, and plenty of humbling experiences I suppose to go along with it.

Jason Bateman (46:20)

Well, you, you inspired in that time. Little do you know, I, I, I, I will tell you one more sidebar, Charles, which is years ago, what is it, 2025? So like 14 years ago I was trying to come up with, I had this idea for this show that became a very little watched show on Netflix called Flake that I wrote and I was flying over to the UK and I was just outlining this dumb idea and I was like, what is this thing? What is this thing? And I was gonna meet my partner Chappie, who's a great friend of Jason's.

Joey Santiago (46:54)

He's got the greatest name in the world.

Jason Bateman (46:55)

And Mark Chapla, great writer who wrote We've Written a bunch of stuff together. He wrote Is this Thing on with me with Bradley, our new movie. So anyway, so I'm going over there and I was listening to Teenager of the Year and I was listening to Freedom Rock, that track, Freedom Rock. And it goes. For you guys who don't know, it goes, my name is Chip and I'm different. And I just wrote that down, that lyric down in the thing while I was writing the synopsis with no idea. And later, later, a couple days later, Mark and I were writing and I looked back at my notes and I said this guy's name and. And it. And it really helped me kind of get into this guy, into this character that ended up becoming this character, Chip in my show. And it was based on listening to Freedom Rock. So just so you know, when you thought you were doing nothing, you ended up years later, really inspiring me. So thank you.

Michael Grant (47:46)

That's cool.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (47:48)

I'm glad that worked out. You know, I think it's just the, you know, if you have any kind of. Of love of language and it doesn't even have to be, I don't know, academic or whatever, it's just the way that, you know, the way you play around with words, words that you like, you know. You know, sometimes you find a word or a name or something and somehow you incorporate it into your thing.

Jason Bateman (48:15)

Yeah.

Will Arnett (48:17)

We'll be right back.

Michael Grant (48:21)

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Jason Bateman (50:36)

Anyway, so you, so you guys go do that and then what happens? What is the moment? 12 years after you break up, who calls whom? Who goes. Because you guys all get back, right? Joe and you, Charles and Kim, you got what's the moment? Who makes the first call? Who has the idea, like, fuck, let's get the band.

Will Arnett (50:56)

Yeah. Was it just a text that said you up?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (51:00)

No, because it was still kind of, believe it or not, I suppose people send texts, but I think that we, even in 2003 or whenever this was, you know, people weren't quite.

Jason Bateman (51:16)

Yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (51:16)

Glued to their phones, of course, the way they are now. But I did an interview on a radio show in London and it was an early morning show, you know, a lot of joking around and kind of. And you know, they're like a bunch of Brits and they're talking circles around me, you know, and they're kind of being all nuanced and everything. I'm only getting half of what's going on. But anyway, I start kind of trying to joke around with them. They're saying, do you see the other band members? I'm like, yeah, we jam all the time. And I'm just kind of being sarcastic, you know, and kidding around a little bit. And then they knew I was being sarcastic, but they decide to pretend sort of that they, that I wasn't. It's like, oh, we got you. You said it. You said you Guys are back together and you're jamming. But I was being obviously, like I said, not serious. But they. After I left the radio station, they kept. That was their little thing that they talked about, I guess, the rest of the show or whatever. Because by the time that I got home to my hotel or whatever, like, I don't remember barely, but there was a world. Remember, there was a. Where we. Suddenly CNN was 24 hours. And so everyone was kind of aware of, like, the ticket.

Jason Bateman (52:36)

Yes.

Michael Grant (52:36)

Yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (52:36)

You know, that. The kind of. The idea of a ticker, of a news ticker, you know, and for most, I suppose, Joe, blow people, common people that weren't, like, following stocks or whatever, it would have been the. CNN would have been the ticker that they would have been aware of. And somehow our reunion made it onto the ticker. Made it onto the ticker. And so, like, people started. So I don't know, Joey might have called me, I think, think. And said, like, what the Is going on?

Will Arnett (53:05)

You know.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (53:08)

Because I'm. I'm watching CNN here, and we're like, back together, Joe.

Jason Bateman (53:13)

So Joe, you're reading the ticker and you're like. Joe, you're like, what the. Man? Are we getting back together? Like, who. What's going on?

Joey Santiago (53:18)

I was pissed I didn't buy Apple.

Michael Grant (53:21)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joey Santiago (53:22)

No, no, get in line.

Jason Bateman (53:23)

Get in line, man.

Joey Santiago (53:25)

Yeah, yeah, I suppose. Yeah. I. I kind of remember a little. A little differently, but. Yeah.

Jason Bateman (53:33)

Yeah. Yes, I love this.

Joey Santiago (53:36)

I do remember Charles calling me. I guess I didn't have cnn, you know, I mean, I. I try not to. I still try not to watch the news, you know, that's smart. I guess it's always been bad, but especially now, I just can't watch it.

Jason Bateman (53:51)

Yeah, but.

Joey Santiago (53:52)

But so. But anyway, yeah, he called and then that was it.

Jason Bateman (53:57)

That. Wait, wait, that's it.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (54:01)

I think I. I think Joey agreed to call Kim. I said, can you. Yeah, would you call Kim and see if she's up for it?

Joey Santiago (54:08)

Well, my friend started saying, you guys are getting back together.

Jason Bateman (54:11)

And.

Joey Santiago (54:11)

And then it's like, what? And I didn't know, you know, until I got the call from Charles. And then it's like, oh, it is true, you know, because every five years people would tell me, when are you guys going to get back together? There's always this. This rumor that we're gonna be going to Coachella or something. There's always this thing.

Jason Bateman (54:33)

But, Joe, you must have known. Like, you guys had to have known because you're so. You guys were so beloved and so missed that. Like, what. What happened? Like, the touring company or manager, whoever calls and goes, like, hey, guys, this is great. Like, we're stoked.

Will Arnett (54:49)

Yeah. But I'm sure that there's. There's still that other element which is much more sort of delicate and nuanced, which is. I don't want to be the one to say, hey, guys, should we do this? Because the other person on the other end of the line might be like, yeah, no, that. What are you talking about? I'm not getting back together with you. Like. Like someone's gotta. Gotta pull their pants down first. I would imagine that's a real delicate part of any sort of reunion with any band.

Jason Bateman (55:14)

Pulling the pants down is surely a delicate.

Will Arnett (55:17)

You know, is there a belt? Is it zippers? You know, like, it's. It's complicated.

Joey Santiago (55:23)

Well, Charles, you were. You were busy, so, you know, Kim, Dave and I got together and, and, and to.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (55:32)

To.

Joey Santiago (55:32)

To practice the songs.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (55:34)

Wow.

Joey Santiago (55:35)

Together. Because you were somewhere else. And then we made a deal, no pun intended, that if this thing's going to sound like crap with the three of us, we're going to shake hands and move on.

Jason Bateman (55:49)

On.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (55:51)

See, I didn't know about this deal.

Will Arnett (55:53)

Yeah.

Joey Santiago (55:53)

Yeah. Well, it's true, though.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (55:57)

If it wasn't reasonable enough.

Joey Santiago (55:59)

Very reasonable. But. But the first three songs that we went over, we just smiled and go, oh, my God. We still. It still sounds the same because my. My. My Marshalls. My Marshall has Sharpie marks on it, so all I had to do is like, dial it in. And. And that was. That was that sound. And, And. But more importantly, the quantizing of the groove, I mean, they. We had it, you know, so that.

Michael Grant (56:27)

Had to be such a rush to hear that the first time.

Joey Santiago (56:30)

It was almost. It was almost comical.

Michael Grant (56:32)

Yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (56:33)

Yeah. Wow.

Joey Santiago (56:33)

Yeah.

Will Arnett (56:34)

What did you say? The quantizing of the groove. What does that mean?

Joey Santiago (56:38)

You know, the. The way. The way.

Jason Bateman (56:39)

The.

Joey Santiago (56:39)

The way the. The bass and the r. The rhythm, the way it pushes and pulls.

Michael Grant (56:45)

You mean.

Will Arnett (56:46)

You mean the actual combination of your sounds individually, together to create one single?

Joey Santiago (56:52)

Yeah, just like. Just like the nuances of the push and pulls. Yeah, we had it, you know.

Will Arnett (56:57)

Oh, that's great.

Joey Santiago (56:58)

It's, you know, it's just.

Will Arnett (57:01)

And you had settings on your amplifier that. That were specific to that pixie sound that you had to get back to.

Joey Santiago (57:07)

Yeah, yeah, it was just. It was Sharpied on there, so I just.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (57:10)

Like, that's wild.

Jason Bateman (57:11)

That's.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (57:11)

That's cool. It's really cool.

Will Arnett (57:14)

Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.

Jason Bateman (57:15)

So, by the way. So Charles, you go into. You get. You get with these guys, you don't realize that they. Until today that they made this deal, that they're like, hey, if it doesn't work out, we're not gonna do it.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (57:27)

No, but. But you know, I didn't. You know, I suppose I had other concerns or whatever.

Jason Bateman (57:35)

Okay, so look, let me just ask you this. I. Cause I want. We got a lot to get and I gotta let you guys go. And minute what. You know, I outlined again and not at risk of embarrassing you, which I talk about influence on other musicians and artists throughout the years. Did you ever. Is there a moment for each of you that kind of sticks out, like a cool moment that somebody came and said, somebody that you like or somebody that. Whose music you really respond to, who said, hey, man, I really like what you guys do. Is there a moment like that? Because I've had moments like that in my. In my career. I think we all have where somebody who we respect comes and says, like, hey, you, you. You done good.

Joey Santiago (58:17)

The biggest. The biggest damn one. Charles, come on, who's that? We were playing at the Orium at the time and then our tour manager says, hey, someone wants to come by and after our show and say hello. And he goes, oh, like. Like who the is this? He goes, oh, it's. It's David Bowie.

Michael Grant (58:40)

It's like, oh, wow.

Joey Santiago (58:42)

Yeah, David Bowie came by and this at the club and then said, they like us.

Will Arnett (58:50)

That'll give you some fuel for a few years. That was it, right?

Joey Santiago (58:54)

Yeah, yeah, there you go.

Jason Bateman (58:56)

Charles doesn't remember. Charles doesn't.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (58:58)

No, no, no, no. Definitely, he definitely. He looms the largest, I suppose, if you. If in those kinds of terms, you know, in terms of like, you know, musical royalty or whatever. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Jason Bateman (59:10)

Were there. Charles, Charles, were there other ones for you? Like, other sort of like ban. Liked who were like more. I mean, Bowie is like an iconic. It doesn't get big.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (59:21)

Well, I remember the first TV show we did was in New York with. Do you remember there was a late night program hosted by David Sanborn?

Joey Santiago (59:30)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (59:31)

And I forget what the name of it was, but he would have on like four or five different people and they'd all come on and do a song and they did this jam at the end, which was a little awkward, as I recall. But the. He had on the Sun Ra Orchestra. Orchestra, you know, and so they were these like, you know, old jazz musicians, you know what I mean, who had really kind of been around for a long time and kind of seen it all. And they were. So anyway, we did this ridiculous number called Tame, which is the epitome of the loud, quiet, loud dynamic. And then we had the. And the quiet part. And then in the loud part.

Jason Bateman (60:16)

Right.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (60:17)

Anyway, it does get quite loud. And, you know, I guess I have a loud voice or whatever. And it's very minimalist in terms of its orchestration and our musical idea. It's very minimalist, but it does do get loud and it does get quiet. Anyway, but one of the gentlemen from the Sun Ra Orchestra, you know, I don't know if he was complimenting me, but he just said. He said, boy, he said, you sure can holler like that after the show. And I was just like, yeah. I was like, all right. One of those guys thought I was cool, you know. He was basically saying, you know, good holler, you know, like, good utilization of your loud chops or whatever, you know, and he. He didn't quite get it necessarily musically, but he got what we were trying to do. And so I like that validation a lot, you know, from a. From a cat, so to speak, from a jazz cat. Felt really great, you know.

Jason Bateman (61:08)

Yeah, yeah. For. From somebody who doesn't. Who's not like. Who doesn't play the kind of music or that you guys do, to sort of acknowled.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (61:16)

Right.

Jason Bateman (61:16)

That way it's got to be someone.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (61:17)

Who'S truly paid their dues, shall we say, you know?

Jason Bateman (61:19)

Yeah, yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (61:21)

You know, to get validation from them or whatever. I felt like, okay, all right, so maybe we're on to, like, something. It's real or something. It's got some sort of, you know, mojo or whatever. We have some sort of magical thing going on. It's. It is. We are special, you know, we have something.

Jason Bateman (61:38)

Yeah, we're good. Wait, so now. But now you paid your. You got to admit, now you paid your dues. You guys are 40 years in. Basically. You're doing a 40 year reunion. Not reunion. I shouldn't say that you guys at all. You guys are doing a 40th kind of almost like an anniversary tour, if you will, this year with it. With your. Is it your ninth studio album? Is that right? Ninth or tenth?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (62:05)

Something like that.

Jason Bateman (62:06)

Right. The Night the Zombies Came.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (62:07)

I'm not sure about this 40th anniversary angle. I feel like that's me. That's me saying that if it was like 50th, maybe we're like, all right, we gotta own it. We're, like really old and we've Been doing it for 50 years and whatever, but 40 feels a little bit like.

Jason Bateman (62:22)

Shh.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (62:23)

Like, okay, we really need to, like, talk about, like, how long it's been going on. No, just, like, talk about, you know, So I don't mind you bringing it up. I'm just. I'm realizing, because we don't necessarily choose the hook, you know, that maybe a publicist or somebody is employing to promote your next little run of shows. And recently I learned it was, like, 40th anniversary. Like, it, man. 40th.

Jason Bateman (62:51)

Yeah. This is a good note for your publicist right now. Your publicity team will let them know to drop that from all materials going forward. But you guys are going.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (63:02)

I mean, it makes sense. I get it. It's a good hook. I mean, you know, but whatever. I guess I'm a little, you know, what's the word? I guess I'm vain is what it is. Is that what it is?

Jason Bateman (63:11)

Yeah, we are too, man.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (63:13)

Yeah.

Will Arnett (63:13)

Look at.

Jason Bateman (63:13)

I mean, it's hard to imagine that Jason's vain by looking at him, but he is very vain. And so do you guys. Do you guys. Do you guys. When you go out on this tour this year, I mean, you just finished. It sounds like a couple weeks ago, a show. But when you go out on tour, how much? Because you guys are so prolific. Like, as I mentioned, your ninth or tenth studio album, how much do you mix up new stuff with? I mean, you've got to have people going, like, please play here comes your man, which is just like, you know, or whatever. Like, you must have. Have. Do you. Do you. Do you play some of the. The songs from across your catalog?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (63:52)

Sure, yeah, We.

Joey Santiago (63:54)

Yeah, yeah.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (63:55)

We usually rehearse up, like, 50 songs, and then we just call them out, you know, when we play a show. And then, you know, we kind of know which of the top 10 and we know which. The ones that we like to play that sound good, I think. I mean, I don't know if everyone gets to scratch their itch with the set list the. That's chosen, but, you know, there's a lot of songs that, you know, kind of like they fall flat or whatever, you know, you. You think, oh, that one they're really gonna go crazy for. But then when you do it every time, it's, like, it's okay, you know? So I think it. It always kind of gravitates towards. We just learn a. A batch our brains can handle about 50 numbers. Numbers.

Jason Bateman (64:38)

Oh, that's a lot.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (64:39)

All right, let's just go on tour by the Way.

Jason Bateman (64:41)

Charles. Charles. That's a lot. 50 is a lot. Joey. Joe, do you have a song that you have always loved to play? Like, when you just start to play it, do you have, do you have one? I mean, I'm sure it's hard to narrow it down, but do you have one that you kind of get into that, into a thing with it and you just love it?

Joey Santiago (64:59)

It depends on the, it depends on the night. I do like, like to play tame because I feel like a wise ass on it, you know, I think the song has three chords the whole time. Charles. And then, and I, and I do one.

Michael Grant (65:21)

So you give him up.

Jason Bateman (65:23)

Charles. It must feel good, though, after all I mentioned. Here comes your man. I mean, that was a song that you, you wrote, that was an early song of yours, and it still got this talk about a song again that's just got this kind staying power that still feels just as relevant today as the moment you dreamed it up. It must be kind of gratifying.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (65:45)

I have grown to like the song eventually. I think that when we played it in our early repertoire, it was one of the ones that were kind of, maybe a bit poppy, that we didn't know if it was too poppy or too kind of nice sounding. But the producer, Gill, that we did a couple or three records with, four records with, he really liked that one. So it got resurrected from the early repertoire finally to the record that it showed up on, which was Doolittle, our third record. And I believe that that the record company that was distributing our record in the USA was. What were they called? Joe? Electra. Electra Records. And they had, like, all kinds of connections to showbiz. And I remember that was the only time we did some sort of real artsy, fartsy, screw you all, we don't care move was they wanted us to play that song on what show, Joe?

Joey Santiago (66:50)

Was it Arsenio Hall.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (66:52)

Arsenio Hall. And that felt like, too weird to us to like, oh, that's silly. Like, we don't. We. We. That's a. That's our silly song, or that's our song that's too sweet. And, and maybe it's all. We don't understand. Like, it's all going too fast. Like, they want us to play in our city hall and we have to do that song. There's no other song we can do. That's the thing that's going to represent us. And we just, I think now we'd be like, oh, awesome tv. Yeah. You know, but at the time, I think there Was a little bit of a concern of being there was a little bit of a too. I didn't have a big. We didn't have a big, too cool for school attitude. But, you know, a little bit once in a while, you know, we don't do that. You know.

Jason Bateman (67:37)

Yeah, we've all been there.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (67:39)

We had that. I feel badly because there wasn't anything against any particular program or whatever. It's just the idea that. That feels too mainstream and seems too late.

Jason Bateman (67:50)

Arsenio is mad at you. Too late. Hey, listen, man, I want to. To say what. What I love about that particular song, I will say that feels like it could have been written any year from sort of 1950 on. There's something about it to me, that just kind of cuts across everything. There's something, I don't know, timeless. I will. So I love that song in particular. That's just my. That's just me.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (68:09)

We play it every show. I enjoy playing it now. And I've tried to gradually appreciate whatever it is that people are responding to in it. And. Yeah, it's a nice little do. It's bouncing. See, Everyone seems to be in a pretty good mood when we play it. And we. I don't know, my mood seems to pick up a little bit when we play it.

Jason Bateman (68:28)

There you go. That's. That's the most important thing.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (68:30)

That's a good sign.

Jason Bateman (68:31)

That's good, Charles. Listen, guys, We. We. We've dominated your time. I. I'm just. It's such a thrill, both Charles and Joe, to have you guys here today.

Will Arnett (68:40)

Very nice of you guys to join us.

Jason Bateman (68:42)

I mean, your ninth or tenth studio album, the Night the Zombies Came, is just an absolute testament to your staying power. You guys are on tour this year. Charles, I won't say your 40th reunion tour or anniversary tour at all. I've taken that out. Okay. We're just calling it a victory. A victory Tour Rebirth.

Joey Santiago (69:05)

By the way, Charles, I think next year, if you don't mind being paid by rubies instead of currency.

Michael Grant (69:13)

Yeah, there you go.

Joey Santiago (69:13)

40Th anniversary is the Ruby.

Jason Bateman (69:16)

It's the Ruby. Is that bothering?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (69:18)

Like, what?

Joey Santiago (69:20)

No money. Just wedding anniversary.

Jason Bateman (69:22)

Like, diamond, ruby. So it's ruby.

Michael Grant (69:24)

Okay.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (69:24)

It's like stones.

Jason Bateman (69:25)

Yeah.

Joey Santiago (69:26)

Next year we're gonna be.

Jason Bateman (69:28)

Yeah, we got a guy in Antwerp who's gonna be muling some rubies to you, Charles. So it's all. What a thrill, you guys. Unbelievable. Continued success. You brought so much joy and so much. Just amazing music to people. People over the years. And I'm such a fan, and I just. Thank you for your time, honestly. Thank you so much.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (69:46)

Thank you for all the kind words, and thank you for having us on. We appreciate it.

Michael Grant (69:49)

Thanks for being here.

Jason Bateman (69:50)

You guys are awesome. All right, Pixies. Take care, everybody.

Will Arnett (69:52)

Thank you, guys.

Jason Bateman (69:53)

Bye, gentlemen.

Will Arnett (69:54)

Thank you.

Joey Santiago (69:55)

Adios.

Jason Bateman (69:55)

Bye.

Joey Santiago (69:56)

Bye.

Jason Bateman (69:58)

Guys.

Will Arnett (70:00)

That was pretty amazing.

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (70:01)

Yeah, that's.

Jason Bateman (70:02)

What a thrill for me to have. I love these on. Yeah.

Michael Grant (70:06)

I remember in college, you know, I think they started in mid-80s, 80s. And in college, you were here for.

Jason Bateman (70:12)

When we were talking to them. Right.

Michael Grant (70:16)

But I mean, specifically, it was like 85 or 86 or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I went to college in 88, and they. Yeah, they were big on campus. I mean, I heard some of their songs. I know a couple of their songs, but I didn't know, you know, anything about them until today, so it's really cool.

Will Arnett (70:34)

I think I wore a T shirt of theirs in something.

Michael Grant (70:38)

A lot of people had their T shirts for some reason. I remember seeing T shirts.

Will Arnett (70:41)

Think on the back, it said adios. Or was that a Sonic Youth shirt? When it said audio at the end.

Jason Bateman (70:48)

Cool. I always like. You know, you'd see somebody wearing, like, a Pixies T shirt. You'd be like, all right, this person knows what's up.

Will Arnett (70:53)

Yeah, this cool.

Jason Bateman (70:54)

Unless it was jb, of course.

Will Arnett (70:55)

Yeah. You know, just playing a character.

Jason Bateman (70:57)

That's cool. Yeah, yeah.

Will Arnett (70:59)

Right, right, right.

Michael Grant (71:00)

All right.

Jason Bateman (71:02)

I would love you to play a cool character once. That would be.

Michael Grant (71:04)

Didn't you wear a p. Didn't you wear a Pixie T shirt and black. Black rabbit.

Will Arnett (71:08)

Yes, yes. That's. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. And I took it. I took it. I was like, hey, can I have this when we finished? Because I want to be cool at home. I want to be cool.

Jason Bateman (71:15)

Dad, you have a Pixie shirt at home?

Will Arnett (71:17)

Oh, yeah, a couple of them.

Jason Bateman (71:18)

Let me come over and bring you some soup.

Will Arnett (71:21)

Would you, please?

Jason Bateman (71:22)

Y. I'm so. It's not to steal your Pixie shirt. Okay. It's not too.

Will Arnett (71:27)

Come on up. Well, we can just try on a bunch of stuff, you know? No, we're not doing, like, put some stuff on you. Just dress you up a little bit.

Jason Bateman (71:34)

What are you talking.

Michael Grant (71:35)

Take some photos. Do a work.

Jason Bateman (71:36)

There's some lipstick on me.

Will Arnett (71:38)

I'd love to put you in a bunch of my clothes. Wouldn't that be fun if I. You just come over and I just put you in a bunch of my clothes?

Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (71:43)

Fun and what? Oh, my God, that sounds so creepy. Silence of the Lambs.

Jason Bateman (71:47)

Oh.

Will Arnett (71:48)

See you in this. Oh, that reminds me of Sandra Bernhardt in King of Comedy. She starts knitting him a sweater while she's got them all tied up. I'd love to see in this. You think the sleeves are too short anyway.

Michael Grant (72:00)

I haven't seen that in a long time. Do you remember that?

Jason Bateman (72:04)

Here we go.

Michael Grant (72:04)

Do you remember that song?

Jason Bateman (72:05)

He's got. Oh, he's got his. He's got his hands on one. I can see. Yeah, it's in his eye. Yeah.

Michael Grant (72:10)

Well, they mentioned Modern Love by David Bowie, and I was thinking about those lyrics of Modern Love. Yeah. I'm standing in the wind But I never wave bye bye.

Jason Bateman (72:27)

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Charles Thompson (Black Francis) (72:54)

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