Castles vs Caves

Summary

Smash Boom Best: Castles vs Caves

Podcast: Smash Boom Best (Brains On Universe)
Episode Air Date: June 7, 2018
Host: Molly Bloom
Debaters: Sandon (Team Cave), Tracy Mumford (Team Castle)
Judges: Nadia & Hyrule (high school debaters, siblings from Los Angeles)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Smash Boom Best, a spirited and family-friendly debate podcast, pits castles against caves to determine which is the ultimate place to call home—or hide out. Through multiple creative and factual rounds, debaters use humor, history, and imagination—along with memorable moments and zingers—to win the favor of two teen judges and listeners everywhere.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Introduction & Judge Introductions

• Playful banter about sweating and secret hideouts (00:00–01:13).
• Judges Nadia and Hyrule introduced, highlighting their contrary sibling dynamic and debate experience (01:13–02:06).
• Debaters introduced:
  • Sandon (Team Cave): “Caves are super versatile... you don’t have to be royalty to get in.” (02:29)
  • Tracy (Team Castle): “Castles should get the crown because we’re the ones with the throne room to put it in.” (02:53)
• Structure of the debate explained—Declaration of Greatness, Micro Round, Sneak Attack, and Final Six; points awarded round by round (03:40–04:10).

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2. Declaration of Greatness

Team Castle – Tracy (04:33–08:51)

• Main Points:

  • Castles are ancient, engineered defensive marvels, symbols of history and luxury.
  • Origins: Motte-and-bailey designs, improved over time with stone construction.
  • Imposing features: 20-foot-thick walls, strategic locations (e.g., Ponari Castle in Romania).
  • Moats—sometimes even filled with bears!
  • Defensive architecture: round towers, battlements, and elaborate throne rooms.
  • Modern usage: Some, like Queen Elizabeth, still enjoy castles today.

• Memorable Quotes:

  • “If you were a big shot and you had enemies, you needed a castle.” (04:40)
  • “At least one time, a castle filled their moat with bears… there are still bears living there.” (07:43)
  • “Castles are the ultimate in defense, in fancy living, in history, and in trumpets.” (08:47)

• Judges’ Impressions:

  • Nadia: Impressed by the history and longevity of castles (08:58).
  • Hyrule: Loved the trumpets, exclusivity, and protection (09:06).

Team Cave – Sandon’s Rebuttal (09:22–10:05)

• Caves are for everyone, not just the elite: “Castles are elitists; caves are for anyone.”
• Caves last millions of years: “That’s craftsmanship.”

Team Cave – Sandon's Declaration (10:34–14:55)

• Main Points:

  • Caves are bigger and older than castles (Mammoth Cave: 390 miles of tunnels; Movile Cave: sealed for 5.5 million years).
  • Natural fortresses—just add a gate.
  • Home to mind-blowing formations: stalactites, stalagmites, columns, draperies (“even bacon” formations!).
  • Priceless art: prehistoric paintings, e.g., Altamira Cave’s 15,000-year-old bison murals.
  • Living science lab: unique microbes (“extremophiles”), possible window into life on other planets.
  • Ongoing adventure: “Still plenty of unexplored caves; you could have a moment like this too.”

• Memorable Quotes:

  • “Caves help us learn about life on Earth. Great. But they also might help us learn about life elsewhere, too.” (12:59)
  • “Castles? Meh. But caves—wow.” (14:55)

• Judge Reactions:

  • Hyrule: Impressed by the priceless elements and resources found in caves (15:01).
  • Nadia: Noted Mother Nature’s art and humanity’s ancient connection to caves (15:18).

Team Castle – Tracy’s Rebuttal (15:49–16:20)

• Critiques caves as dark, cold, and uncomfortable: “The weather report for your cave: dark and damp, followed by more dark and damp…”

• Questions living conditions in caves (Vitamin D, stalactites are like “ancient rock boogers”).

• Sandon's Comeback: Some caves have sunshine, beaches, even jungles (16:24).

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3. Micro Round: Real Estate Listings (19:02–22:39)

Prompt: Debaters must sell their side as a dream home.

Team Cave – Sandon (19:02–20:37)

• Sells tranquility, natural decor (stalactites, cave pools), unlimited “rooms” for adventurous kids, privacy (“zero windows”), neighbor Linda the bear.
• “Caves last millions of years… your cave will be your forever home.”

Team Castle – Tracy (20:43–22:39)

• Pokes fun at cave living (“your carpeting is bat poop”), then pitches castles as stylish, exclusive, sun-filled, and spacious enough for 500 friends.
• Invokes the aspirational club—King Arthur, Harry Potter, Narnia dwellers.
• Signature running gag: “Ooh, castles!” (choir sings every time “castle” is mentioned).
• “It’s an exclusive club, one I know you want to be in.”

Judges: Both find decision difficult this round (22:52–22:58).

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4. Sneak Attack: Sharknado Defense (23:14–26:25)

Prompt: How would your side defend against a tornado of sharks?

Team Castle – Tracy (24:08–24:51)

• Uses elevation and planning; empties moat of bears to accommodate tired sharks:
  • “Now I have sharks in my moat. The Sharknado can’t hurt my castle—it just makes it more imposing!”

Team Cave – Sandon (25:17–26:07)

• Blocks cave entrance with boulder, captures sharks in sea cave pools, and (jokingly) sells them in Iceland.
  • “I’m not disguising it here. This is war. I’ll sell them and trick out my cave like Batman.”
  • Later apologizes: “I don’t advocate killing and eating sharks… I just got hyper-competitive. Sorry, guys.” (30:18)

Judges and banter: Playful jabs about feeding bears and sharks, “castle mentality” and sunlight deprivation.

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5. Final Six (27:05–27:43)

Each debater must sum up their argument in six words.

• Sandon (Cave): “Caves have Batman, castles, Dracula. Yikes.”
• Tracy (Castle): “History, style, power. Castle’s got it.”

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6. Final Judging and Decision (28:07–29:15)

• Result: TIE! (Judges initially both choose a tie)
  • Hyrule: Ultimately chooses “Castle”: “Living in a cave would be more difficult.” (28:51)
  • Nadia: Picks “Caves”: “Caves are cooler.” (29:12)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Tracy (Castle): “At least one time, a castle filled their moat with bears… there are still bears living there.” (07:43)
• Sandon (Cave): “Castles are elitists. Caves are for anyone… What’s better than literally sitting around a campfire singing Kumbaya?” (09:32)
• Nadia (Judge): “Mother Nature’s art, and our past ancestors’ paintings on cave walls, that’s also priceless.” (15:18)
• Tracy (Castle): “The weather report for your cave: dark and damp, followed by another chance of dark and damp.” (15:51)
• Sandon (Cave): “Caves don’t have to be dark and damp. You just have a narrow mind when it comes to caves.” (16:24)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction & Setup: 00:00–04:10
• Declaration of Greatness—Castles: 04:33–08:51
• Declaration of Greatness—Caves: 10:34–14:55
• Real Estate Micro Round: 19:02–22:39
• Sneak Attack (Sharknado): 23:14–26:25
• Final Six: 27:05–27:43
• Final Decision: 28:07–29:15

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Tone & Language

The episode is playful, quick-witted, and inclusive—full of puns, laughter, and imaginative scenarios. Judges and debaters trade friendly barbs, appeal to both logic and fantasy, and keep the conversation lively and accessible for kids and families.

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Episode Conclusion

The debate ends in a rare tie—judges are split:

• Hyrule prefers Castles for comfort and practicality.
• Nadia picks Caves for their coolness, artistry, and history.

Listeners are left to cast the final vote on smashboom.org.

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Summary: Whether you love history and royal trappings or adventure and natural wonders, this Castles vs Caves episode delivers fascinating facts, zany arguments, and enough memorable one-liners to sway even the stubbornest sibling.

Transcript

[A]

Are you sweating a little, Tracy?

[B]

Not at all.

[C]

She's cool as a cucumber.

[A]

I wouldn't be sweating in a cave.

[B]

No, you'd be getting dripped on with rock sweat. I prefer my own sweat from the brains behind brains on.

[A]

It's Smash Boom Best, the show for.

[D]

People with big opinions.

[C]

Hello, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. In this episode, we're pitting noble medieval fortresses against the naturally made chambers of wonder. That's right. Today's matchup is castles versus caves.

[A]

No one would suspect you being in a cave, so it's more secret.

[B]

I think castles are cooler because they look nicer. There's a lot of rooms and they're really big. They're bigger. They could have secret rooms and you.

[A]

Have like an army in there.

[B]

Castles, they can be attacked from multiple angles.

[A]

While caves, they are holes.

[B]

And there is pretty much only one entrance in castles because more people can inhabit them. Caves are underground, which means that they're cooler than castles because they're above ground.

[C]

Today we have two judges to help us settle this millennia old rivalry. It's our first ever brother sister judging team. Jairo and Nadia from Los Angeles, California, welcome to the show. Thank you.

[D]

Thanks. Yeah.

[C]

You are both high school debaters, right? Yeah.

[E]

Yes, we are.

[C]

So does that mean that you win every argument you have with your parents?

[D]

I'd say no. I'd say we lose every single one. Because there's always Give me your phone.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[D]

There's always Give me your phone.

[C]

How about when you two have disagreements with each other?

[D]

Oh, I always win.

[E]

No.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[E]

No.

[D]

Really?

[E]

No.

[C]

So are you guys contrary with each other just for the sake of being contrary?

[A]

Sometimes.

[D]

Very few times. I'd say 95% of the time we just happen to be contrary. We're very opposite to each other.

[E]

Yeah, that's true.

[C]

Okay, so we'll see how today's judging Turns out. If you guys are on the same side, we'll know it's a miracle. Okay, well, we are about to get a crash course in castles and caves because we have two fantastic debaters prepared to make a fierce case for their side. First up, arguing for Team Cave is sand and Tottenham.

[A]

Hey, everybody.

[C]

Sandon, in one sentence, tell us why you think caves should come out on top.

[A]

Okay, well, caves, they are super versatile. Caves are on all seven continents. They form in glaciers, mountains, sea cliffs, and deserts. They're really interesting and unlike A castle. You don't have to be royalty to get in.

[C]

And now, representing Team Castle is Tracy Mumford.

[B]

Team Castle, ready to take the crown.

[C]

All right, Tracy, in one sentence, what makes castles the best Castles should get.

[B]

The crown because we're the ones with the throne room to put it in.

[C]

Ooh, excellent. Very succinct. Well, you certainly have your work cut out for you, Nadia and Hyrule. But first, let me tell you how everything's going to go down. Team Castle and Team Cave are going to go head to head in four rounds of heated debate. Round one is declaration of Greatness, when both teams have a chance to take us on a deep dive into the science, history, and lore of their side. Next up is the micro round. Every episode, it's a new challenge that both sides have come prepared to compete in. And the third round is Sneak Attack. When we give our debaters a challenge that's a complete surprise to both of them, they'll have to think on their feet and come up with some convincing stuff on the spot. Last but not least, the fourth round of Smash Boom. Best is the final six. When our contestants have one more chance to sway the judges with just six words. And each of these four rounds, Nadia and Jairo will both award a point to the side they found most persuasive. And all you listeners at home, we want you to weigh in too. So find yourself some scratch paper, and we'll let you know when it's time to award a point. We have a poll on our website too, where you can vote, but before you or our judges make any decisions, we have some serious deliberating to do. Nadia and Jairo, are you ready?

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[C]

Let's do this. Okay, it's time for our first round declaration of greatness. I know both teams have put in some serious library time preparing their declarations of greatness. We flipped a coin, and Tracy, you're up first.

[B]

Oh, excuse me. Sorry. That was just castle perk number one. A bunch of trumpets that follow you everywhere and make everything that you say sound important. Like, my socks do not match or I just ate a cheese sandwich. Regal, right? That is the point of castles. Castles are ancient structures that date back more than a thousand years. They were designed to be defensive strongholds where kings and queens and other important people lived. Basically, if you were a big shot and you had enemies, you needed a castle. Now, people didn't just build the perfect castle on the first try. Castles are an engineering marvel that developed over centuries with some truly ingenious construction ideas. How else do you stay standing for a thousand years or more? First, the whole point of the castle is to be safe inside of it. The earliest castles were wooden structures called motte and baileys, which people built up on big mounds of dirt that they piled up. And then they built a tall wooden wall around them so nobody could get in. And that really seemed like it was going to work pretty well until. Do you. Do you smell smoke? Right, Fire. Fire. Castle dwellers realized that enemies could just burn down their wooden Mott and Baileys. They needed something more secure. So people turned to jell. Oh, I read that wrong. Stone. They turned to stone. Stone, of course, was a lot more work. Building a stone castle took up to 3,000 people. And they were all working by hand, coring the stone, hauling it to the castle site. And they didn't just make the walls tall, they made them deep, too. The walls could be up to 20ft thick. They also had to pick the right place to build in the first place. Location, location, location. A lot of castles were built on tops of hills or near cliffs or rivers, places where you would have natural defenses. The Ponari Castle in Romania sits on the very edge of a canyon. It was built in the 1200s, and it started to fall into disrepair until Vlad the Impaler came along. Yeah, that Vlad the Impaler, the guy who inspired Dracula, he realized how useful such an isolated castle could be. He fixed it up. He moved in. And this castle is so hard to reach. You have to climb 1480 stairs just to get up there. That's like climbing to the top of the Empire State Building. It is a hike. And if all of that wasn't enough to keep your enemies away, you also have your moat. Castle architects built deep trenches around castles so that attackers couldn't reach the walls. Sometimes they flooded them with water so people couldn't run across or tunnel underneath. And at least one time, a castle filled their moat with bears. The Esk Krumlov Castle in the Czech Republic moved a family of bears into the moat in 1707. And now, more than 300 years later, there are still bears living there. So take that, caves. Sometimes bears live in castles, too. Good boy. Don't scratch the tapestries. So we have these incredible, sprawling 10 years in the making, stone castles popping up in Europe and Africa and Asia. And everything about them is designed to ward off the enemy. You know how castle towers and turrets are round? That's because they're more stable. If someone tunnels underneath them or hits them with a big rock from a trebuchet aka a giant rock launcher. If they had hard 90 degree corners, they'd be more likely to collapse. Physics. And you know how the tops of castles sometimes look like teeth? Those are called battlements. Archers and other soldiers could take shelter behind the low walls and peer around them to spy on approaching enemies. As castles developed, they got bigger and safer and more elaborate and fancier. They got bigger windows and nice draperies and fancy throne room. Today, some of these castles are still standing and people still live in them. Like Queen Elizabeth. She has a weekend castle. Why? Because castles are the ultimate in defense, in fancy living, in history, and in trumpets. I said in trumpets. Thank you.

[C]

There was a lot of compelling stuff in there. So, Nadia, what impressed you the most with that castle argument?

[E]

The history. And also the amount of time they've been around.

[C]

Yeah. And what about you, Hyrule?

[D]

Well, first of all, the trumpets, for sure. The exclusivity of the kind of people who live in castles, and just the overall protection of a castle.

[C]

Well, now it's time for a quick rebuttal. Sandon, you have just.

[A]

Oh, let me add it.

[C]

30 seconds to poke some holes in Tracy's arguments. Your time starts now.

[A]

All right, so you said castles are just for people who are big shots. Well, most of us aren't big shots. What about the rest of us? Castles are elitists. Caves are for anyone. You know. Why do people need castles to have all these defenses? Well, cause the people who live in castles are jerks or they're pretentious and they have no friends and they have lots of enemies. People in caves have lots of friends and they invite them all in, and they literally sit around a campfire and they can sing Kumbaya. What's better than that? You think castles are cool because they took decades to build caves. They take millions of years to form. Millions and years. That's craftsmanship.

[C]

Tracy, do you have any words you want to offer to Sandon?

[B]

Look, caves got built by water that got lost. Castles got built by people with a.

[A]

Plan that water knew where it was going.

[B]

Tracy.

[D]

Well, I mean, you can destroy a castle, but explain to me how you're supposed to destroy a cave.

[C]

Two words.

[B]

Cave in.

[C]

Well, that took some unexpected turns. And now, Sandon, it's time for you to deliver your declaration of greatness. Let's hear it.

[A]

Whatever a castle can do, a cave can do better. You want big? We're still exploring Mammoth Cave in Kentucky, but so far, cavers have mapped 390 miles of tunnels. That's the distance from LA to San Francisco.

[C]

Whoa.

[A]

Okay, you want old. In 1986, Romanian workers uncovered a cave that was sealed for 5.5 million years. Sit down. Castles, ya babies. You want defense? Put a gate on a cave entrance and boom, instant fortress. Next you want pretty. Caves are covered with natural art. You probably know about stalactites hanging from the ceiling or stalagmites on cave floors. They form when mineral rich water drips day after day, leaving tiny deposits that build up over millennia and eventually creating these awesome cave cones. But there are endless varieties of speleothems. That's the official word for these formations. You've got columns where stalactites and stalagmites meet. You've got soda straws, which are super skinny stalactites. You've got draperies, which are thin, wavy rock formations. You've got bacon, which are draperies that look like bacon. You've got fried eggs which that look like fried eggs. Add a little toast, food's ready, and boom, you've got breakfast. Caves just served you a meal. You are welcome. And then on top of all that, there are the cave paintings.

[C]

It was a classic sort of, you.

[B]

Know, hairs standing on the back of your neck moment.

[A]

That's cave photographer Robbie Schoen. He's talking about the first time he saw the prehistoric paintings at Altamira Cave in Spain. There's some of the earliest records of human life dating back more than 15,000 years.

[C]

They were painting these huge bison on the ceiling of this one cave, almost overlapping there were so many, and obviously.

[B]

It was an animal that they were.

[C]

Hunting at the time and they knew the shape, the outline of the animal so well.

[B]

I mean, it was very, very spiritual.

[C]

For me to, to see these paintings.

[B]

Knowing that you're standing in exactly the same location as our early ancestors.

[A]

Wow. Epic animal paintings from the dawn of humanity. That is way cooler than a moth eaten tapestry or whatever castles have. So caves help us learn about life on Earth. Great. But did you know they also might help us learn about life elsewhere too? You see, deep inside caves, only the smallest, hardiest things survive. Microbes. These are microscopic organisms that eat rock. Scientists call them extremophiles because they live in the most extreme places. A lot of scientists think on a harsh planet like Mars, your best bet for finding life is looking for microbes like these. Learning about them in caves could help us find them in space. Oh, and if exploring the final frontier is your thing, ditch the rocket and grab a flashlight.

[B]

It's just like going on the moon when they Landed on the moon, and they walked across that surface. Those were the first footprints, and they're still there now. It's the same with a cave.

[A]

That's Hazel Barton, a microbiologist at the University of Akron in Ohio. One thing, once she was exploring Wind Cave in South Dakota when she decided to wiggle through an opening no one had mapped. And on the other side, there was a pit.

[B]

And I rappailed into a room that was the size of a cathedral. And every square centimeter was lined with crystals. So wherever I looked, the crystals kind of reflected and sparkled back at me. And when I dropped on the ground, my feet were the first feet that had ever been in there. So I was the first human ever to see that.

[A]

Hazel Barton says there are still plenty of unexplored caves, so maybe one day you could have a moment like this too. Castles, they're made by humans, so good luck finding anything new in there. In conclusion, castles, Meh. But caves, wow.

[C]

Some fascinating stuff there. Did you hear anything that surprised you in there, Hyrule?

[D]

Yeah, I forgot completely about all the elements, all the stuff that builds up inside of the caves. Like, there's priceless stuff there. There's great stuff going on there. So I just thought that was pretty good point.

[C]

How about you, Nadia? What surprised you in there?

[E]

Well, there's the art of famous artists in the castles. But then we're forgetting the art of mother nature with her, the crystals and our past ancestors, they grew up living there. And their forms of art with painting on the walls, that's also priceless.

[C]

Yeah, that's very, very cool. Well, all right, Tracy, I hope you have some good comebacks ready because it's your turn for a 30 second rebuttal. On your mark, get set, go.

[B]

Look, Santa, I'm just honestly concerned about your vitamin D levels. If you're gonna be spending that much time in the dark, your flashlight budget has to also, you know, the sun is good. Go look at it sometime. Also, everyone loves science experiments, but do we have to live in the science experiment? I mean, stalactites, that's like. That's like ancient rock boogers that keep dripping. Also, I just got the weather report for your cave, and it is dark and damp, followed by a chance of dark and damp, followed by another chance of dark and damp. Sounds beautiful.

[C]

And time. Well done, Sandon. Do you have any questions?

[A]

I feel like you grossly underrepresenting caves. There are caves that have a beachside view. There are caves that have lots of shafts of light coming in there's. One cave that even has a jungle inside it. So caves don't have to be dark and damp. You just have a narrow mind when it comes to caves.

[B]

Jungles are damp. Okay, judges, I think the word is humid.

[C]

Okay, judges, we made it through the first round and it's time to award your first point. Take a minute to think about it. Don't say it out loud. Nadia and Hyru, have you awarded your points?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Was it a tough decision?

[D]

Not really.

[C]

Interesting. And listeners, you can do the same on your own score sheet. You can always press pause to take more time to think it over at home. And if you have an awesome idea for our next debate battle, we want to hear about it. Head over to smashboom.org to share your ideas or just to say hi.

[E]

And now, help us spread the word. We're a brand new show and if you post about us, talk about us and recommend us, we'll be able to keep this going.

[A]

Yeah, like maybe next time you're in.

[D]

The library you could whisper a little louder than usual.

[E]

Have you heard this awesome new podcast, Smashboom Best?

[D]

Yeah, I want him to do Aliens vs. Robots.

[C]

Excuse me.

[A]

Shh.

[E]

Sorry, Mrs. Smith. We were just talking about Smash Boom Best.

[C]

Oh, Smashboom Best is my favorite podcast. I love the Books vs. Movies episode team.

[B]

Books forever.

[E]

Well, that didn't take much convincing.

[D]

Seriously.

[C]

Alright, don't go anywhere because we'll be right back with three more fiery rounds of Smash Boom Best.

[B]

Boom Boom Boom. Boom Boom Boom Boom. Smash Boom Best.

[C]

This is Smash Boom Best, the show about showdowns. Like, have you ever thought about who would win this battle?

[B]

Hands versus Feet.

[C]

That debate idea was sent to us by Greta and Maya from Chicago. We'll give them a call at the end of the show to see who they think would win. Alright, we've already heard both sides go deep in the first round, but as far as I can tell, these teams are neck and neck and this debate is far from over. And next up, micro round. The micro round challenge today is a real estate listing. We asked both teams in advance to write a real estate listing for their side. Either a cave or a castle. And try to convince the judges to make one of them home sweet home. Tracy went first last time. So, Sandon, you're up.

[A]

Looking for a little peace and quiet? Trying to escape the hustle and bustle of city life. We've got just the place for you. A cave. Ah, that's better. This secluded gem is perfect for your next home. Or maybe a place to hide treasure or build a secret lair. The options are endless. With classic mid Paleolithic design, this home features original stalactite accents, a pristine cave pool, and rustic limestone walls. Perfect for displaying your paintings of giant bison. Have a large family? No problem. Like many caves, this one is only partially explored. So your kids can pick out their own rooms. By simply finding a hole and crawling through it, who knows what fun they'll find?

[C]

My cave has crystals. My cave has that.

[B]

Poop.

[A]

More of a loner. Love privacy. Your new cave has zero windows, so it's perfect for that nutty hermit in the woods lifestyle you've always dreamed of. Haircuts. Who needs them? Bathing. Forget it. Pants. Yeah, right. In your new cave, you can finally let yourself go. Oh, and say hello to your friendly neighbor, Linda Barrington. Her family lives in the cave down the way. But don't worry, they sleep half the year and only really stop by once in a while to borrow honey. And by the way, your new cave is a great investment. After all, caves last millions of years. Through earth shaking disasters and ups and downs in the housing market, this cave will be your forever home. When you're falling asleep in complete and total darkness, hearing nothing but the relaxing sounds of water dripping, you'll think, ah, there's nothing like life in a cave.

[C]

Wow, that is going to be tough to follow. Tracy, let's hear what you came up with.

[B]

Hey, you there, cave dweller. What a dark and damp home you have there. I like your carpeting. Oh, wait, that's bat poop, isn't it? Well, I just want to tell you about an exciting new opportunity for you to upgrade your digs. It's called a castle. Ooh, castles. I didn't even ask them to do that. It just happens every time you say it. Castle. Ooh, castles. Now, one of these babies doesn't come cheap. But you look like an important individual. The kind of person that needs a lot of room for your throne and all your gold. It's a big investment, but it's definitely worth it. This puppy's gonna last you for several hundred years if you play your cards right. Now let's talk about some of the perks, cave dweller. First of all, walls. I know, right? It also comes with a ceiling that doesn't drip on you. And get this, windows. So if you want to see the sun ever, I suggest crawling on out of there, right to a brand new castle. Ooh, castles. Second of all, is there anyone you don't like? Not a problem, my liege. They are never getting in here. Fill the moat, raise the drawbridge, man the parapets. Total privacy. And I'm not saying you're gonna be alone in your new castle. Ooh, castles. You can have up to 500 of your closest friends live here with you. Finally. I don't want to name drop, but I'm about to. You may be familiar with some other castle dwellers like Harry Potter, King Arthur, those Narnia peeps. It's an exclusive club, one I know you want to be in. What can I do to get you into a castle today? Ooh, castles. Okay, guys, that's enough. I can tell they are sold.

[C]

Oh, my goodness. This is going to be a close call. Judges, what do you think? Are you ready to move in?

[E]

Sure.

[C]

Yeah. Well, it is time to award a point for this round. So guys, take a second to think about it. Was it a tough call this round?

[E]

No, no.

[D]

Kinda sort of.

[C]

Oh, no, no.

[E]

Actually, yeah.

[C]

No, kind of. Okay.

[A]

Something about their certainty really makes me uneasy.

[C]

Well, this one they were a little less certain. So it's getting closer every second. Okay, now it's time for the stealthiest, trickiest round of the show. It's sneak attack.

[B]

Sneak attack.

[C]

The challenge is Sharknado. How would your side defeat a swirling tornado of sharks? Most creative answer wins.

[A]

What?

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Okay, debaters, we are going to give you a second to collect your thoughts while we play some hold music.

[B]

Caves and castles and caves and castles and caves do you like bats? Castles and caves and castles and caves and castles. Do you like fancy hats?

[C]

Sandin went first last time. So now, Tracy, it's your turn. Sharknado. How would you defend against it?

[B]

Okay, so first of all, castles are built on hills usually, which means I'm gonna see this sharknado coming. I have the, the element of planning, right? A cave. Sorry, Sandon, you're not gonna see it. It's just gonna be upon you. So I've got some time to, you know, figure out some sort of deal. I'm going to ask the bears to move out of my moat to make space for the sharks. The sharknadoes, they don't want to be in the NATO, right? They're tired of spinning. It gets very dizzy. They're ready for a break. I have a built in water feature to offer them a place to get rid of their weather woes and just take a nice lap around my castle. In fact, the Sharknado can't hurt my castle. It just makes it more of an imposing place because now I have sharks in my moats.

[C]

That is an excellent point. Very sound argument, Tracy.

[A]

Okay, Sandon, I don't think sharks are just gonna behave and work for you like that. It's just such a castle mentality to think that everybody's gonna bow down and serve you whenever you think they will.

[B]

It's called cooperation. I don't know why you have such a negative point of view. Maybe because you haven't seen the sun in a while.

[C]

All right, Sandin, Sharknado. How would a cave defend against the sharknado?

[A]

Not only am I gonna defend against it, I'm gonna make a profit. And here's what I do. Okay? So I've got a sea cliff cave, and I'm high on the little sea cliff and I can see the sharknado coming in from the water. So what do I do? Easy. I just push a big boulder in front of my cave entrance and block them. But you know there's still sharks in a sharknado somewhere. They're all gonna hit the sea cave wall, the door I made, and they're gonna fall into the ocean and then they're gonna try to swim right, come after me that way. So they're gonna swim into the cave probably somewhere at the. The waves have been beating at the rock, creating an opening. And they'll come up into one of my deluxe salt water cave pools. And there I will have already put a net. So I'll capture them as soon as they come up. Each one, one by one, conk em on the head and then I will sell them in Iceland, where shark is considered a delicacy.

[B]

What? And you called me brutal.

[A]

Hey, I'm not disguising it here. That's straight up. This is war. I don't think these sharks want to play nice, you know, so it's us, it's me or them. And I'm going to instead sell them and then turn them into money. And I'm gonna trick out my cave like Batman.

[B]

It's a pretty negative view of the natural world considering you live in a cave.

[C]

All right, Nadia and Hyru, it is time to award a point for this round. Who do you think did it best? Don't say out loud. Just mark it down on your score sheets.

[D]

Tracy, by the way, how do you plan to feed these sharks?

[B]

How was I feeding my bears? I clearly had some sort of food source already.

[E]

Subjects to them.

[B]

No, man, you guys have castles all wrong.

[A]

I think my anti castle propaganda campaign is working.

[B]

I didn't say that my drawbridge was up. It's a friendly castle.

[C]

So Nadia And, Hyrule, have you two marked a point? Yeah. Okay, now for our final round.

[B]

The final six.

[C]

Keep it short, sweet, and convincing. Sandon, what are your final six words about Caves?

[A]

Caves have Batman, castles, Dracula. Yikes.

[C]

Okay, and Tracy, here is your last chance to sway Nadia and Hyrule. What have you got?

[B]

History, style, power.

[C]

Castle's got it short and sweet. All right, Nadia and Hyrule, you just heard some stirring final words from both of our debaters, and now it's time to award one last point. Take your time. This is a big decision.

[B]

Oh, no.

[C]

Uh. Oh. Nadia's feeling torn. Hyrule torn. Easy decision.

[D]

No, not at all.

[C]

It's a tough one. Yeah, well, it's the big moment. Gonna settle this debate once and for all. Who did you choose as today's winner, Castles or Caves? Nadia and Hyrule, I want you to say your answer at the same time. Okay. One, two, three.

[E]

Tie.

[D]

Oh, kind of, yeah.

[C]

Do you guys both have a tie?

[E]

Do you have a tie?

[B]

Yeah, cuz, I mean, but like, off.

[E]

My head, in my opinion.

[D]

I feel like he brought up better points, but just personally, living in a.

[B]

In a.

[D]

In a cave would be a little bit more difficult.

[E]

Comfortable. A lot more space. Yes. A lot more expensive.

[C]

So I think this is kind of amazing that we found something that Nadia and Hyrule agree on.

[D]

Yeah, it's like one of the. I'm sure it's probably only the. It's like one of the five things we agree on.

[C]

So you agree that you'd rather live in a castle, but caves might be more interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

You know what? Just to break it, I'm gonna go with Castle. I'm gonna go with Castle.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Just. Hyrule is officially crowning Castle his winner. Nadia, do you have a winner?

[E]

I have a question. What was the question?

[C]

What was the question? That's a really good question, Nadia. I think the question was, which one is cooler? Cooler.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Caves.

[E]

Caves.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So Nadia and Hyrule agreed for, like, one minute, and then that was over. Fun while it lasted.

[C]

Well, so Nadia has crowned Caves the winner. Hyrule has crowned Castles the winner. Who would you like to crown the smashboom Best? You can tally up your points and then head to our website, smashboom.org to vote. You can see if the public agrees with our judges. And while you're there, check out the rest of our Smashboom besties. Smashboom Best is brought to you by the good people at Brainzon and American Public Media.

[B]

It's produced by Mark Sanchez, Sandon Totten, Molly Bloom, and Alyssa Deadly.

[A]

We had engineering help today from Veronica Rodriguez and Drew Jostad.

[C]

Production help comes courtesy of Lauren D. And John Lambert. And we'd like to thank Elena Villegas and Alex Baumhart, Tracy and Zanden. Is there anyone you want to especially thank?

[B]

I would like to thank Mike Mulcahy, Jeff Jones, Ewan Care, Julie Franz and Liz Meyers.

[A]

I'd like to give a shout out to cave experts Gina Moseley, Robbie Schoen and Hazel Barton. And also, I want to throw in a little bit of a display disclaimer. Apologies to all sharks and shark fans out there. I don't know what came over me. I don't advocate killing and eating sharks. I think sharks are totally cool. I think I just got hyper competitive. Sorry, guys.

[C]

Anyone you want to thank? Jairo and Nadia.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

826Laundra Opportunity. This is really fun.

[C]

We want to thank the students who shared their opinions at the beginning of the show. That's Luis Hernandez, Emily Santos, Joshua Solares, Brianna Hernandez, and Enrique Rodriguez. And a very special thanks to the voice of our hold music, Brenna Everson. And our announcer, Marley Feuer. Worker Otto. And before we sign off, let's give Greta and Maya a call. They're the ones who had the idea for a hands versus feet debate. Which is cooler, hands or feet? They may be sisters, but they have very different opinions.

[B]

I'm Greta and I'm leaning towards feet because they help us walk, run, skip, and I play soccer on my. Which is all about your feet. I'm Maya, and I feel on the side of hands. I mean, it would be very difficult to eat without using your hands. Yes, but, Maya, you couldn't get any. You couldn't get to school without your feet. Yes. And that's what I'm saying. That's why I'm feeling very split between these two sides.

[C]

Have you dreamed up an epic matchup that you want to hear on the show? Send an email to hellorainson.org and tell us all about it. That's it for this episode of smashboom. Best. We'll be back real soon with another debate.

[B]

Bye now.

[C]

Bye.

[B]

Later. Better than the rest.