Smash Boom Best: Chocolate vs. Cheese (September 5, 2019)

Episode Overview

In this laugh-out-loud, family-friendly debate from Smash Boom Best, two beloved foods—chocolate and cheese—battle head to head. Hosted by Molly Bloom, this episode brings together food podcast hosts Dan Pashman (Team Cheese) and Francis Lam (Team Chocolate), with Paige—a 12-year-old baking champion—as the judge. Over four rounds (and a sudden death final!), the debaters use wit, history, and mouth-watering descriptions to compete for the ultimate title. The tone is playful, clever, and full of fun food facts for all ages.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Judge: Paige’s Perspective ([01:01] – [02:25])

• Paige, a skilled 12-year-old baker (and Food Network Kids Baking Champion), is today's judge. She’s baked with both chocolate and cheese, making her a perfect, if divided, arbiter.
• “As a baker, I feel like I’m more biased towards chocolate. But my dad’s from Wisconsin, so 50 percent of my DNA is made of cheese, so I can be swayed either way.” — Paige ([02:09])

Round 1: Declaration of Greatness

Team Cheese: Dan Pashman ([05:32])

• Dan positions cheese as a versatile staple: great for any meal, not just dessert.
• Variety is cheese’s superpower; it ranges from soft to hard, sweet to tart, made from many animal milks (cows, goats, sheep—but also buffalo, yaks, and even donkey milk!).
• Fun science lesson: Cheese is made by adding bacteria and enzymes to curdle milk. "A lot of bacteria is totally harmless, and some of it even good for you. Cheese wouldn't have its wonderful flavor without bacteria." — Dan ([07:14])
• Special nod to American cheese: “Never trust anyone who thinks they're too good for American cheese, for they know not what a good burger is.” — quoting Kenji Lopez-Alt ([09:11])
• Famous closing: “You could probably eat a different kind of cheese every day for the rest of your life, and you would never run out of cheeses.” ([09:59])

Cheese Highlights:

• Cheese for every time of day (breakfast, lunch, dinner, snack, dessert)
• Massive variety and global reach
• The making of cheese is a quirky, bacteria-based marvel

Team Chocolate: Francis Lam ([11:55])

• Francis paints chocolate as a mood-boosting, comforting, and nearly magical treat. “What activity isn’t better with chocolate?” ([12:28])
• Delivers a mini history lesson: Chocolate’s deep origins among the Maya and the Aztecs, consumed as a drink with chili and even used as currency.
  • "They unearthed a tomb built by the Maya people over 1,500 years ago... [with]... a pot... the word was cacao... Essentially, the word for chocolate." — describing the archaeological find ([13:47])
• Mayans and Aztecs revered chocolate for its significance in ceremonies and daily life.
• Chocolate's health benefits: can reduce blood pressure and heart disease risk; only 15% of the population is allergic, compared to over half the world's population being lactose intolerant.
• “Man, all this chocolate talk has me kind of hungry.” — Francis, leading into a dessert-filled imaginary feast ([16:55])

Chocolate Highlights:

• Universally beloved comfort food
• Glamorous and rich history, both culinary and cultural
• Adaptable in both sweet and savory recipes

Notable Rebuttals:

• “A grilled chocolate sandwich, which he presented as a ridiculous thing, sounds really good.” — Francis ([11:25])
• “All that history that Francis just told us... didn’t answer the question. The fact that chocolate has a very interesting history doesn’t in itself make it better than cheese.” — Dan ([17:45])

Round 2: Micro Round – Invent a Holiday

Team Chocolate: Chocopalooza ([21:37])

• Francis details Chocopalooza—a worldwide day off work and school, celebrating the "food of the gods." Family portraits in chocolate, songs (“O cocoa tree, O cocoa tree…” [22:33]), chocolate currency, and markets.
• "No work and no school. And I remember the Chakapaloozas of my youth, where I'd wake up to the smell of fresh hot chocolate..." ([21:49])

Team Cheese: Curdling Day ([23:25])

• Dan pitches Curdling Day, with homes decorated with Swiss cheese streamers, the Cheesemonger leaving four cheeses in every fridge ("something old, something new, something stinky and something blue"), and a town-wide feast.
• Classic group photo: “We all say cheese. Cause we like cheese.” ([24:39])

Holiday Highlights:

• Both holidays are family-focused, laden with treats, and highly imaginative
• Music, sculptures, and cheesy garlands abound

Round 3: Sneak Attack – Pop Quiz ([26:17])

• Each debater writes 3 multiple-choice questions for their opponent about their food.
• Both display deep knowledge and a sense of fun. Examples:
  • Francis: “When you see a number, a percentage on a chocolate bar, does it refer to...”
  • Dan: “What is the best shape to fold a slice of American cheese into?”
• Judge Paige displays local flair by suggesting the correct answer for a cheeseburger is C: inside the burger (a Juicy Lucy, [30:59]).

Round 4: The Final Six ([32:22])

• Francis: “Only three words. Chocolate chip cookies.” ([32:40])
• Dan: “Breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert. Cheese. Victory.” ([33:02])

Sudden Death: Mystery Box ([33:29])

• The debate ends in a tie, leading to the 'mystery box' cook-off. Ingredients: lemon, bacon, shredded coconut.
  • Francis (Chocolate): "Paige’s ice cream" — chocolate-covered, candied bacon ice cream balls, rolled in coconut and lemon zest ([34:48]).
  • Dan (Cheese): "Francis salad" — lettuce, crispy bacon cubes, sharp cheese, lemon vinaigrette, toasted coconut ([35:32]).
• Paige awards the winning point to Chocolate!

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Chocolate and I go way back together. But chocolate is not nearly as good as cheese. You ever had a grilled chocolate sandwich? No." — Dan ([05:32])
• “My kid loves cheese, but when she sees chocolate, she turns into a zombie seeing brains. So it’s just science.” — Francis ([04:01])
• “If music be the food of love, play on. And my friend here agrees. I rest my case.” — Dan ([10:10])
• “O cocoa tree, O cocoa tree, much pleasure doth thou bring me.” — Francis, singing ([22:33])
• “I disagree with both of your options, because I am Minnesotan...The correct answer is C: Inside the burger.” — Paige on cheeseburgers ([30:49])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:01 – Meet the judge Paige
• 05:32 – Dan’s Declaration of Greatness (Cheese)
• 11:55 – Francis’s Declaration of Greatness (Chocolate)
• 17:45 – Rebuttals
• 21:37 – Micro Round: Holidays (Chocopalooza & Curdling Day)
• 26:17 – Sneak Attack: Pop Quiz
• 32:22 – Final Six Words
• 33:29 – Sudden Death: The Mystery Box Final

Outcome & Final Thoughts

After a deliciously close match, Paige ultimately crowns Chocolate as the winner—though she (and the listeners) are left with a lingering appreciation for both foods. The debate is friendly, filled with puns, and makes a strong case for loving both chocolate and cheese. As host Molly says, “This is gonna be hard for you”—and it’s true for everyone listening!

For More Family Debates: Check out smashboom.org to vote or suggest your own showdown!