Forever Ago: The history and mystery of mayonnaise

Summary

Summary of "Forever Ago: The History and Mystery of Mayonnaise" Episode

Release Date: April 17, 2025
Podcast: Smash Boom Best: A Funny, Smart Debate Show for Kids and Family
Host: Joy Dolo
Contributor: Maya from San Diego, California
Guest: Francis Lamb

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1. Introduction: The Mayonnaise Challenge

The episode kicks off with Joy Dolo introducing a special segment focused entirely on mayonnaise, her personal nemesis. Producer Anna Weigel teases the episode's content, highlighting Joy's longstanding aversion to mayo and setting the stage for an in-depth exploration of its history and cultural significance.

Joy Dolo [00:01]: "Hey, smashboom besties... Turns out Joy also made an entire Forever Ago episode about her one true nemesis, mayonnaise."

2. Listener Interaction: Maya's Mayonnaise Proposal

Listener Maya from San Diego reaches out with a creative idea to feature mayonnaise in an episode, leveraging Joy's dislike to add humor and character to the discussion. She expresses hope that Joy's reactions will entertain listeners.

Maya [02:08]: "I think the episode would be super amusing with all of Joy's disgusted reactions."

Joy admits her genuine dislike for mayo, emphasizing that her aversion is not just for show.

Joy Dolo [02:57]: "Ever since I was a kid, I've always despised mayo. The gunky texture, the sour taste, the smell of rotting."

3. Exploring Mayonnaise: Ingredients and Origins

Joy and Maya delve into what makes mayonnaise, discussing its basic ingredients—egg yolks, oil, acid (lemon juice or vinegar), and seasonings. They explore the simplicity of its recipe and ponder the origins of the term "mayonnaise," presenting several theories about its etymology.

Joy Dolo [07:15]: "As far as historians can tell, the name mayonnaise wasn't used until about two to 300 years ago. Who came up with that name anyway?"

Theories include:

• Named after the Spanish city Mahón.
• Derived from the French word manier, meaning to stir.
• Originating from the old French word moyeu, meaning egg yolk.
• Linked to the French town Bayonne.

Maya [08:00]: "One idea is that mayo is named after a city in Spain called Ma On."

4. Mayonnaise Around the World

The discussion shifts to mayonnaise's global presence, noting that Russia is the highest consumer, commonly used in salads with herring, beets, or potatoes. In the U.S., mayo holds a unique position among condiments, sparking strong brand loyalties.

Maya [08:45]: "Russia is the country that eats the most mayo. Using it in salads with Herring, beets, or potatoes."

5. Brand Rivalries: The Mayo Eaters Showdown

Joy and Maya creatively transform their discussion into a mock wrestling match called "Mayo Eaters," featuring representatives from major mayo brands: Duke's, Hellmann's, and Kewpie. This segment personifies each brand, highlighting their unique flavors and origins.

Joy Dolo [16:00]: "Mayo Eaters, where top mayos take to the tongue and entice taste buds."

6. Expert Insight: Francis Lamb on the Science of Mayo

To bridge the gap between disdain and appreciation, Joy and Maya invite Francis Lamb, host of The Splendid Table, to explain the science behind mayonnaise. Lamb elucidates the concept of emulsions and the distinct characteristics that differentiate various mayo brands.

Francis Lamb [20:04]: "Mayonnaise, as you probably know, is a pretty basic sauce... where oil and water have been made to mix."

He highlights:

• Kewpie: Uses rice vinegar, more egg yolks, yeast extract, and a touch of MSG, offering a richer, umami flavor.
• Duke's: Employs cider vinegar without added sugar, emphasizing tanginess.
• Hellmann's: Known for its mildness and thick, creamy texture.

Francis Lamb [21:06]: "Kewpie uses rice vinegar, more egg yolks, and yeast extract, giving it that big savory flavor, AKA umami."

7. Changing Perspectives: Embracing Mayonnaise

Through Lamb's insights, Joy begins to reconsider her stance on mayonnaise, appreciating its versatility and the craftsmanship behind different brands. Maya encourages Joy to experiment with mayo in various recipes, fostering a newfound curiosity.

Joy Dolo [23:14]: "I just can't go on. I still don't like mayo, and I think I'm done talking about it."

Francis Lamb [23:06]: "It offers richness and sauciness... mayonnaise provides that perfectly."

8. Interactive Segment: First Things First Game

The hosts engage listeners with the "First Things First" game, challenging them to order three historical "gloopy" items:

1. Instant oatmeal (1922)
2. Augustus Gloop from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (1964)
3. Gloppy from Candy Land (1984)

Maya applies logical reasoning to deduce the correct sequence, demonstrating the educational aspect of the podcast.

Maya [10:04]: "Okay. So I know that's pretty old... I'm gonna say oatmeal first."

9. Conclusion: Embracing Diverse Perspectives

The episode wraps up with a summary of mayonnaise's enduring presence and its role in modern cuisine. Joy acknowledges the value of understanding different perspectives, even if her dislike for mayo remains unchanged.

Joy Dolo [26:04]: "Yes. Different perspectives, you know? And I'm just learning so much."

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Key Takeaways

• Mayonnaise's Simplicity and Complexity: Despite its basic ingredients, mayonnaise offers a rich variety of flavors and textures across different brands and cultures.

• Cultural Significance: Mayonnaise's global presence underscores its versatility and adaptability in various culinary traditions.

• The Power of Understanding: Expert insights can transform personal biases, fostering appreciation and respect for differing viewpoints.

Notable Quotes

• Joy Dolo [02:57]: "Ever since I was a kid, I've always despised Mayo. The gunky texture, the sour taste, the smell of rotting."

• Francis Lamb [20:04]: "An emulsion is a sauce or a substance where oil and water have been made to mix... into a thick, beautiful sauce instead of, like, a greasy mess."

• Francis Lamb [21:06]: "Kewpie uses rice vinegar, more egg yolks, and yeast extract, giving it that big savory flavor, AKA umami."

• Joy Dolo [26:04]: "Different perspectives, you know? And I'm just learning so much."

---

Final Thoughts

"Forever Ago: The History and Mystery of Mayonnaise" serves as an engaging exploration of a common yet often overlooked condiment. Through personal anecdotes, cultural insights, and expert interviews, the episode invites listeners to appreciate mayonnaise's multifaceted role in our culinary landscape, all while maintaining a light-hearted and humorous tone suitable for kids and families.

Transcript

[Joy Dolo]

Hey, smashboom besties producer Anna Weigel here to tell you all about an extra special episode we're bringing you today from the awesome history podcast Forever Ago. You'll remember debater Joy Dolo from so many debates, including the spooky Ghosts versus Zombies and the hilarious Halloween candy grab bag. Turns out Joy also made an entire Forever Ago episode about her one true nemesis, nannies. It's a super fun episode and we're so excited to share it with you. We'll be back next week with a brand new debate, Frankenstein's Monster versus Frosty the Snowman. Until then, enjoy this special episode of Forever Ago. And thanks for listening. H o T T o G O. I don't think I like mayo. It makes me uncomfortable how much I dis spies. Mayo. You've got Mayo. Oh, doth mine ears deceive me? No, they doth not. I've got Forever Ago mail. Yes, I'll have to finish my very original anti mayonnaise song later. Hmm, let's see. Oh, it's an email from a listener named Maya from San Diego, California. The subject line of the email is the history of Mayo.

[Francis Lamb]

No.

[Joy Dolo]

No, no, no, no, no. This can't be right. Oh, I know. I'll text Maya and ask her in person. Whoa, that was fast.

[Maya]

Hi, Joy.

[Joy Dolo]

Maya, tell me it isn't true. The history of Mayo. Why are you doing this to me?

[Maya]

Listen, I know what you're thinking, but just hear me out. How about I read you my question?

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, go ahead.

[Maya]

Okay. I decided to send in an idea for a podcast episode for Forever Ago. I chose this especially because it's Joy's worst nightmare, arch nemesis and mortal enemy, mayonnaise. I think Joy Dolo is super awesome.

[Joy Dolo]

Aww.

[Maya]

But I think the episode would be super amusing with all of Joy's disgusted reactions.

[Joy Dolo]

Who said I make disgusted noises?

[Maya]

I used to love mayonnaise, but now I'm sort of low key against it. So I think I would get Joy's okay. Also, if Joy Dolo didn't actually hate mayonnaise and it was just to give Forever Ago more character and humor, I will be completely and utterly heartbroken. And I think every other Forever Go fan would be too. But thank you so much for listening to my idea, Maya.

[Joy Dolo]

I assure you this is not an act. Ever since I was a kid, I've always despised Mayo. The gunky texture, the sour taste, the smell of rotting.

[Maya]

I get it. I get it. So can we do an episode about mayo? You always say we should send in our episode ideas I do.

[Joy Dolo]

I do. And we never shy away from the hard stuff here at Forever Ago. Come on, Maya. Let's explore the history of the history, the history of Mayo. Welcome to Forever Ago from APM Studios. I'm Joy Dolo, and my co host today is Maya from San Diego, California. Hi, Maya.

[Maya]

Hi, Joy. Forever Ago is a non profit public.

[Joy Dolo]

Radio program, which means we rely on support from our listeners to keep the show going. There are lots of ways you can support the show.

[Maya]

You can donate, become a SmartyPass subscriber, or buy our merch.

[Joy Dolo]

The T shirt has my face on it. Head to foreverago.org to show your support.

[Maya]

Thank you.

[Joy Dolo]

Now, Maya, I would like to say I'm excited, but I'm not. In fact, I'm not sure I can go on literally. Everyone knows Mayo and I are not BFFs. We're not even Fs. In fact, we're Es for enemies. I honestly don't know if I can do this episode.

[Maya]

But, Joy, you're an actor.

[Joy Dolo]

I am.

[Maya]

And you've done some tough roles. You've played fruit in a fruit salad, a tree in a forest.

[Joy Dolo]

And I did not make a sound acting.

[Maya]

So why not use your acting skills to get in the frame of mind of someone who likes mayo? Okay, fine. Someone who tolerates and is curious about mayo. Act, Joy. Act. Acting is about empathy. Deeper understanding through imagination.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, fine. You talked me into it, Maya. Let me just do some quick warm ups to get into character. Mayo is a cool condiment. Mayo is a cool condiment. Mayo is a cool condiment. My ma mama mixes mayo and mustard. My mama mixes mayo and mustard. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's do it.

[Maya]

You got this, Joy.

[Joy Dolo]

I'm Joy Dolo and I tolerate mayo. And this is Maya, which is just one letter different than the word mayo. But we won't hold that against her. So, Maya, you used to like mayo. What was your favorite way to eat it?

[Maya]

My dad makes all the food in the house. My mom makes lots of food too. But my dad makes, like, the authentic Lebanese food, and he makes the authentic Lebanese cabbage salad. But also he, like, will, like, mix up his recipes a little bit. So he used to put mayo in the cabbage salad. Mmm. And it's actually really good. I still kind of like it, but I used to also like mayo in my, like, turkey sandwiches and stuff. I don't anymore. I also don't eat turkey because I'm vegetarian now.

[Joy Dolo]

Ah. Why did you start to dislike it? Was it. Did it do something to you?

[Maya]

Yes, it did. It betrayed me.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, no.

[Maya]

I got sick of it. There are too many mayo sandwiches, and I'm like, I'm done with you mayo.

[Joy Dolo]

I just write it off. I hear you. That sounds very much like my story. Okay, so how would you describe mayo for someone who hasn't had it before?

[Maya]

Okay, it depends on what kind of mayo you have, but it's like an almost neutral sort of white, thickish cream, but it's a little bit sweet.

[Joy Dolo]

There's something about the texture and something about it that I just have never liked. But it's also like it's everywhere. Right. Mayonnaise is a simple sauce made of a few key ingredients. Egg yolks, some kind of oil, some.

[Maya]

Kind of acid, like lemon juice or.

[Joy Dolo]

Vinegar, and sometimes seasoning, like maybe garlic or mustard.

[Maya]

That's it.

[Joy Dolo]

Because this recipe is so simple, it's been around for a long time. As long as these ingredients have existed, someone is probably mixing them together.

[Maya]

Emphasis on mixing. In order to get the consistency just right, you have to stir and stir and stir and stir, adding the oil and lemon juice a little bit at a time.

[Joy Dolo]

But as far as historians can tell, the name mayonnaise wasn't used until about two to 300 years ago. Who came up with that name anyway? It sounds French. Is it French for jiggly white sauce? Of my nightmares, the A's part of.

[Maya]

The word is definitely French.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, it can mean comes from, but.

[Maya]

The mayo part of the name, no one can agree on where that part came from.

[Joy Dolo]

That's because no one wants to take credit for it. Hey, O, can I get a high five? No. Nobody.

[Maya]

One idea is that mayo is named after a city in Spain called Ma On.

[Joy Dolo]

In Spanish, a sauce from there would be called salsa mahones.

[Maya]

Another idea is that the name comes from the French word manier, meaning to stir.

[Joy Dolo]

Magnonese makes sense, since you have to stir it a lot to make it.

[Maya]

Another is thought that it might come from the old French word moyeu, which means egg yolk.

[Joy Dolo]

Moyunes, another contender, since the egg yolks set it apart from other sauces.

[Maya]

And there's another theory that it's actually named after a French town called Bayonne.

[Joy Dolo]

Bayonnaise. That's how I say mayonnaise when I have a cold. Please pass the bayonaise away from me.

[Maya]

But no matter the etymology or the origin of the word, mayonnaise is here to stay.

[Joy Dolo]

It's eaten all over the world.

[Maya]

Russia is the country that eats the most mayo. Using it in salads with Herring, beets, or potatoes.

[Joy Dolo]

And of all the condiments, for some reason, it's the most popular one in the US which is absurd since mustard is right there.

[Maya]

It's so popular here that people have very real feelings about which brand of mayonnaise is best.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, as a passionate holder of mayonnaise opinions, I can't wait to hear about that. But first, I need a break, please. So let's play first things first. This is the game where we take three things from history and try to put them in order of which came first, second, and most recent in time. Today's three things are gloopy things, Augustus Gloop from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Gloppy from the board game Candy Land, and instant oatmeal. Okay, Maya, which do you think came first, which came second, and which came most recently in history? Actually, first of all, have you seen Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?

[Maya]

I have read the and seen the movie. Augustus Gloop is the one who eats a lot of chocolate, right?

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

[Maya]

Okay, so I know that's pretty old. Cause Road Dahl is a classic. But the next one, Instant Oatmeal. I love instant oatmeal, but I cannot remember the last one you said. What was it?

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Gloppy from the board game Candyland.

[Maya]

I'm gonna go Augustus Gloop.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay.

[Maya]

Cause I feel like Rod Dahl did not get his inspiration from Candyland. I feel like I can't imagine Rhod Dahl playing Candyland. And without those vibes going on, I can only imagine that he wasn't alive when Candyland was invented.

[Joy Dolo]

Mmm.

[Maya]

Wait. Actually, I didn't even think about the oatmeal. This is so hard. I'm gonna say oatmeal first. Oh. Cause I feel like that could have been made with really simple ingredients. And we learned about in school about, like, the Neolithic period and agriculture. And I feel like instant oatmeal is, like, really simple. And I feel like it's something that could have come really early. And then I'm gonna go Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Augustus Gloop. And then I'm gonna go Candyland. Ooh.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay.

[Maya]

I never get these right. I'm so scared.

[Joy Dolo]

Listen, those are some great guesses. I would actually guess that order too. So we have instant oatmeal, Augustus Gloop, and then Gloppy from Candyland.

[Maya]

Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

Okie dokie. We'll hear the answers at the end of the episode right after the credits.

[Maya]

So stick around.

[Joy Dolo]

Hey, forever girlfriends. We love hearing from our listeners and we want to know what topic you would like to explore on the show. Is there an invention or time period you'd like to learn more about? Maya, what's something from history you're curious about?

[Maya]

Etymology, Definitely. Like how language was invented? Yeah, I feel like that would be really cool. And writing, but can't have writing without language.

[Joy Dolo]

The history of writing and language. I love that idea. Listeners, if you have a question about history, record yourself asking your question and send it to [e-mail] contact and while you're there, you can send us fan art. Like maybe a picture of me eating a mustard mustard heavy sandwich with a bunch of mustard on it without any mayo. Maybe that's foreverago.org contact and keep listening. Brains on Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Forever, a goal, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore. It's Alien Exercise hour. Hi yah hoo ha. While I stretch my snoodles and bounce on my trampolini, I'll listen to a new podcast. I'm going to try smashboom Best, the best debate podcast ever. Tell us why Alice in Wonderland has such grand command.

[Francis Lamb]

Drop the beat. Ladies and gentlemen, esteemed judge of smashboom Best, I'd like to start with a few rhymes.

[Joy Dolo]

Ah yo.

[Francis Lamb]

Catch me in the rabbit hole.

[Joy Dolo]

Dazzled by a magic show by the Z. Come back here. Podcast Must listen to Smash Boom Best. Now listen to Smash Boom Best wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maya]

Hey friends.

[Joy Dolo]

Molly Sandon and Mark here with some very big news. Drumroll please. We are hitting the road in search of adventure, fresh air, and you.

[Maya]

That's right.

[Joy Dolo]

We're gonna be live at the Boulder theater in Boulder, Colorado on Sunday, April 27. Our science themed live stage show takes the audience on an adventure through the brain, complete with magic tricks, dance moves, out of body experiences, mystery sounds and a game show.

[Francis Lamb]

Molly, you almost left out the most important part.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, Molly, don't forget the big party. Oh, right after the shows, we're throwing a Brain Tastic bash. Join us afterward for a VIP party where we'll play games, guess mystery sounds, pose for photos, and give as many high fives as humanly possible. Snag a spot by purchasing a VIP pass when you buy your show ticket. Oh, that reminds me, I've gotta start training. These hands aren't gonna high five by themselves. Five and five.

[Francis Lamb]

Good idea.

[Joy Dolo]

And remember, spots are limited, so grab your tickets [e-mail] events you're listening to Forever Ago. I'm Joy.

[Maya]

And I'm Maya. Today, we're talking about mayo.

[Joy Dolo]

Mayonnaise is a tasty sauce made of egg yolks, oil, some kind of acid, and maybe some seasoning.

[Maya]

We don't really know where the name came from, but it is stuck and spread all over the world.

[Joy Dolo]

It's a spread that's spread. So for a long time, this sauce was made by hand, putting all the ingredients together and stirring them up.

[Maya]

But now, instead of making it at home, most people buy it at the.

[Joy Dolo]

Grocery store, and people feel very strongly about which brand of mayo is the best.

[Maya]

Yeah, Arguments over mayo brands can get pretty intense.

[Joy Dolo]

You've heard of WWE World Wrestling Entertainment, where wrestlers like John Cena and the.

[Maya]

Rock take to the ring and wow audiences.

[Joy Dolo]

Now get ready for the WME World.

[Maya]

Mayo Eaters, where top mayos take to the tongue and entice taste buds.

[Joy Dolo]

Stomachs get ready to rumble. Can you see? Smell what Eugenia Duke is stirring? It's mayonnaise.

[Maya]

Eugenia Duke, inventor of Duke's Mayonnaise, Queen of the South.

[Joy Dolo]

During World War I, I started selling sandwiches to soldiers in training in South Carolina. They loved my sandwiches, but especially the mayo. So I started bottling it and selling it. Now, my mayo whip is a premier dip.

[Maya]

Ugh.

[Joy Dolo]

Your mayo is too tangy. Richard Hellman, inventor of Hellman's Mayonnaise, King.

[Maya]

Of the Northeast, has entered the ring.

[Joy Dolo]

I came to the US From Germany, ran a deli in New York City, and started bottling and selling my very special mayonnaise around the same time as.

[Francis Lamb]

The Duchess over here.

[Joy Dolo]

Hellman's is here. Here to lay the smackdown on your sandwiches. Too tangy. Too tangy. Well, your boring mayo is a may.

[Maya]

No. Boring.

[Joy Dolo]

Tangy.

[Francis Lamb]

You both clearly need a little sweetness from this cutie pie.

[Maya]

Oh, my.

[Joy Dolo]

It's Japanese mayo inventor Toichiro Nakashima.

[Maya]

This mayo matchup is now officially a battle royale.

[Joy Dolo]

I first tasted mayonnaise while working in.

[Francis Lamb]

The U.S. then, around the same time.

[Joy Dolo]

As these two jokers, I started bottling my own special mayo in Japan.

[Francis Lamb]

Kewpie. This sauce is boss.

[Joy Dolo]

Kewpie. More like a poopy. Richard.

[Maya]

Bless your heart.

[Joy Dolo]

You think your mayonnaise is better than his? I know it is.

[Francis Lamb]

Why don't you you call your mommy.

[Joy Dolo]

And ask for more umami? Which mayo maker will come out on top? We don't know. It's highly subjective. I decline to take part in this taste test. But I do love a Good rivalry.

[Maya]

There are real differences between these mayos. Kewpie uses rice vinegar, more egg yolks, and yeast extract, giving it that big savory flavor, AKA umami, plus some tangy sweetness, too.

[Joy Dolo]

Duke's uses cider vinegar and doesn't add any sugar, making it the mayor of Tangy Town.

[Maya]

And Helman's prides itself on its mildness and thick, creamy texture.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, so all these super popular mayo started being bottled around the same time in the 1920s. What was going on then?

[Maya]

Well, a bunch of stuff. It became easier to make large amounts of things like sauces thanks to machines and factories. Plus, this was around the time when more people. People started living in cities.

[Joy Dolo]

Right. They were on the go, working outside of their homes. They needed quick, portable food like sandwiches.

[Maya]

And, you know, you can't have a sandwich without a spread like mayo.

[Joy Dolo]

Um, I beg to differ. Oh, Maya, I've tried so hard, and I've said the word mayonnaise so many times, but I just can't go on. I still don't like mayo, and I think I'm done talking about it.

[Maya]

I have an idea. How about I call up our friend Francis Lamb?

[Joy Dolo]

Francis lam charming and talented host of the Splendid Table podcast. Okay. I do love Francis.

[Maya]

Me too. And the Splendid Table is a show all about food and cooking. So if anyone can help you understand the magic, or at least the merit of mayo, it's him.

[Joy Dolo]

Let's give him a call.

[Francis Lamb]

Hello?

[Joy Dolo]

Hi, Francis, it's Joy and Maya.

[Francis Lamb]

What? From the delightful and whimsical podcast forever ago. I love your show.

[Maya]

Yes, we're calling because we need your help. Joy is not a fan of mayonnaise, so can you help us understand why it's useful?

[Francis Lamb]

Is cake better when it's covered in frosting? Yes.

[Maya]

Okay, so how do you like to use mayonnaise?

[Francis Lamb]

I like to use it every which way. I mean, the most obvious way, of course, is on the sandwich, but, you know, there are actually so many different ways to use it. So mayonnaise, as you probably know, is a pretty basic sauce. And I mean basic as in fundamental, not basic as in, like, boy, you are so basic. So is made. It's what we call, in food nerd circles, an emulsion. An emulsion is a sauce or a substance where oil and water have been made to mix maybe a little bit against their will, but they all kind of get along. So when you whisk the egg yolks in mayonnaise with a little lemon juice and oil, what you're doing is the egg yolk kind of acts as a bond to keep the oil and water in the lemon juice blended together into a thick, beautiful sauce instead of, like, a greasy mess.

[Maya]

How are the different kinds of mayonnaise different? Like Duke's versus Hellman's versus Kewpie.

[Francis Lamb]

Oh, okay, so you just mentioned my absolute favorites. So what makes those different mayonnaises different is basically how they flavor that sauce, whether they use more or less lemon juice or vinegar or whether they add different spices to it, and in some cases, maybe a tiny touch of sugar, and in Kewpie's case, a little bit of msg. So, Kewpie, when you taste it, sometimes they call it cheese mayonnaise because it has a richer flavor, a deeper flavor, almost like cheese. That's because they've seasoned it with a little bit of MSG to give it that depth. So that's super delicious. I grew up with Hellmann's, so I feel like Hellmann's is kind of like the foundational mayonnaise. Like, that's the mayonnaise upon which all mayonnaises are built. That's not actually the case, though. And if you grew up in the south, you might like Duke's more, because that's a brand that's much more popular in the South.

[Joy Dolo]

Kewpie sounds really good. I've never had it before, but if it's got, like, a cheese, I love cheese. I love cheese. And if you could tell me that this mayonnaise kind of tastes like cheese.

[Francis Lamb]

Oh, we're turning you.

[Maya]

You guys. You guys mark it here. In the history book, Joy Dolo has officially said that she thinks a mayonnaise sounds delicious.

[Francis Lamb]

She's open.

[Joy Dolo]

I said it. I did not eat it.

[Francis Lamb]

Would it help you to know, too, that Kewpie comes in a really cute bottle and has a really cute doll as the icon? And it has a star tip, so when you squeeze it out, it looks like a star.

[Joy Dolo]

It does help.

[Francis Lamb]

I kind of feel like a sandwich is almost incomplete without it. I love bread. I love things that go in bread, but I kind of feel like a sandwich needs a little bit of juice, a little bit of slickness, you know? And the mayonnaise provides that perfectly. I like butter on bread, but butter in a sandwich just kind of. I don't know. It's like, it doesn't feel right. I want something to make. Make the things kind of slide a little bit. That sounds so delicious, doesn't it?

[Maya]

I was catching your drift until you said juice, and then you said slide.

[Joy Dolo]

But, yeah, Cause I'm not doing myself any favors. I'm off the mayo train again, yo.

[Francis Lamb]

No, I lost her. Instead of saying juiciness and slidiness, maybe I would say it offers richness and sauciness, because that's the thing too. Because the. The flavor of mayonnaise is oil, is the richness of oil, but it doesn't taste oily and greasy. Again, because of the magic of emulsion, and because it's emulsified, it actually makes your mouth. It makes your tongue react to it differently. So it actually accepts the flavor of the oil in a way that's a little bit more clean and a little bit richer than, again, what it would taste like if you just put a spoonful of oil in your mouth, which even I think sounds extremely gross.

[Joy Dolo]

Are there other, like, really popular emulsions?

[Francis Lamb]

Most creamy salad dressings are emulsions. Like ranch dressing is basically mayonnaise with a little bit of buttermilk and some seasonings.

[Joy Dolo]

No, it's not.

[Francis Lamb]

It's true, Joy. It is true.

[Joy Dolo]

My world is changing. I love ranch. I'm gonna lose so many fans.

[Maya]

So what's a possible recipe that Joy could try? I mean, other than salad with ranch dressing or whatever that Joy could try that would show a more hidden use for mayonnaise?

[Francis Lamb]

Oh, a hidden use for mayonnaise. Well, this I love, because mayonnaise is usually, you know, turned into a sauce, turned into a condiment. You know, something like that. A salad dressing. Another famous emulsion that's a salad dressing is Caesar dressing, which, again, is basically a mayonnaise, but a hidden use. This is actually one of my favorite kitchen hacks. So are you fans of grilled cheese?

[Maya]

Yes.

[Joy Dolo]

Yes.

[Francis Lamb]

Okay, so what's the biggest problem when you make a grilled cheese?

[Maya]

When the cheese gets cold and then it gets chewy?

[Francis Lamb]

Okay, well, that's a problem with eating the grilled cheese. Not fast enough. But I feel like when you're making grilled cheese, if you put, like, you know, you put butter on the bread, and then you start to, like, fry the sandwich, it often gets burnt, and you have all those, like, burnt spots, and you're kind of be like, this is still delicious. I guess if you use coat the bread with mayonnaise and fry it with the mayonnaise outside the bread instead of butter mayonnaise, because it doesn't have the milk solids, it doesn't burn nearly as easily, but it still has the ability to coat the bread. So you're not like, pouring oil on the bread to fry it. So that is a super hack for grilled cheese.

[Maya]

That's so cool.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, my gosh. I hope that the fans that are listening to this, they make the grilled cheese with the mayo and send pictures to forevergo.org contact. But you gave so many great points. I'm gonna have to start hating something else. I just didn't understand mayonnaise, and Francis has really helped me understand just the different ways that mayo is actually a part of my life.

[Francis Lamb]

And isn't that the secret to existence on this world?

[Joy Dolo]

Isn't that why we're here?

[Francis Lamb]

The more we understand, the less we hate.

[Joy Dolo]

Yes. Different perspectives, you know? And I'm just learning so much. Thank you so much for joining us, Frances.

[Maya]

Thank you so much.

[Francis Lamb]

It's been a pleasure. Thanks for the call.

[Maya]

Mayo is a simple sauce made from a few ingredients and it's been around for a long time.

[Joy Dolo]

We don't know who made it first or where the name came from, but it's become a super popular condiment all over the world.

[Maya]

Several big mayo brands that we still eat today got their start in the 1920s. That's when people started working outside their homes and eating meals on the go, like sandwiches.

[Joy Dolo]

Not everyone likes mayo. I don't, and that's okay. But there are some recipes that use it in an interesting way, like grilled cheese with ranch, which is secretly mostly mayo. I'm gonna go home and try it out. Just kidding. I hate mayo. This episode was written and produced by Molly Bloom and Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Our editors are Sandon Totten and Shayla Farzon. Fact checking by Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Engineering help from Josh Savageau with sound design by Rachel Breese. Original theme music by Mark Sanchez. We had additional production help from the rest of the Brainzone universe team. Rosie Dupont, Anna Goldfield, Ruby Guthrie, Lauren.

[Francis Lamb]

Humphert, Joshua Rae, Rebecca Randy, Sandon Totten.

[Joy Dolo]

Charlotte Traver, Anna Wegel and Aron Woldesilassi. Beth Pearlman is our executive producer. And the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavadi and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to George Kiriyama, Amy Bentley and Erica Romero.

[Maya]

And if you want access to ad free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our smarty pass.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, Maya, it's that time. Are you ready for the answers to first? First things first.

[Maya]

No, not really.

[Joy Dolo]

I thought you had some really great, great ideas. First you thought was instant oatmeal and second was Augustus Gloop from Charlie and Chocolate Factory. And third, Gloppy from the Candyland board game.

[Maya]

Yeah, now I'M a little bit more confident just hearing it out loud, you know?

[Joy Dolo]

It makes sense, right?

[Maya]

I guess. Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

All right, drum roll, please. And so, Maya, you.

[Maya]

You're gonna say that I got them, right? Cause you always do your sad voice when people get them right.

[Joy Dolo]

I thought that was my happy voice.

[Maya]

Oh, it was.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah.

[Maya]

Oh, just.

[Joy Dolo]

Carrie, you got it right. Yeah, you got it right. I was gonna do a sad voice. You got me, Maya.

[Maya]

We know now, Joy, I'm sorry, but we know after, like, three seasons of Joy's going, oh, oh, Maya, oh, I'm so sorry. Because whenever it's actually bad, then you're like, well, you got two of them, right? Like, you're trying to make us feel better, but when you're trying to make us feel sad, we know that you're just gonna be like, jakey, Maya, you.

[Joy Dolo]

Are so onto me.

[Maya]

You can't use that tactic anymore.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, Maya, you got em right? Let me tell you why they're right, Maya. So first was instant oatmeal in 1922. So before instant oatmeal, traditional steel cut oats would have to be cooked for about 30 minutes before you could dig into a delicious bowl of oatmeal. And in 1922, Quaker Oat Company introduced quick cooking oats, which would only take five minutes. And so the Quaker Oat Company filed for a patent for instant oatmeal in 1957, which would be ready in just two minutes. Hey, you want to hear something else? Awesome. Yeah, you got the second one right, too. Yay. So Augustus Gloop. He made his appearance in the book Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, written by Rode Dahl and published in 1964. And in the book, he falls into a chocolate river, which is also gloopy. And in an earlier draft of the book, the character was named Augustus Pottle. And Gloop is much more fun to say. Right, Gloop?

[Maya]

Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

Last and certainly not least is Gloppy. And that was invented in 1984. So the Candyland board game first came out in 1948 and was designed to entertain children who were in the hospital sick with polio. In fact, the inventor was a former teacher who was also in the hospital with polio and saw how bored the children were. And in the original version, it had familiar locations like the Gumdrop Forest and Molasses Swamp, but none of the goofy characters to accompany them. And they didn't come until 1984, when gloppy, the resident of the Molasses Swamp, and other characters like Queen Frostine and Plumpy were introduced. Isn't that interesting?

[Maya]

That's so cool.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, I love that. It was like an idea for kids that were, like, bored in the hospital.

[Maya]

Yeah. It's so sweet. It's beautiful.

[Joy Dolo]

So were you surprised by any of those answers?

[Maya]

I was surprised that I got them. Right. That's something. I'm surprised about how late instant oatmeal was. I'm like, I thought you would have been in like 50 BCE. No, I'm joking. But like. But gonna be totally honest, real steel cut oats are a lot better than instant oatmeal.

[Joy Dolo]

Maya. Yeah, I agree with you.

[Maya]

I know.

[Joy Dolo]

I love steel cut oats. I just take the time to make them because they're so much better.

[Maya]

I don't take the time to make them. I take the time to make my dad make them.

[Joy Dolo]

You've got a good plan. All right, everybody. Join us next week for a new episode all about Bollywood movies.

[Maya]

Thanks for listening. It.