Forts vs. Puzzles: a constructive debate

Summary

Smash Boom Best: Forts vs. Puzzles - A Constructive Debate

Episode Release Date: May 15, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Smash Boom Best, hosted by Molly Bloom, the battle pits Forts against Puzzles in a lively debate aimed at kids and families. The show features debaters Joy Dolo representing Team Forts and Comrade Tripp representing Team Puzzles, with Petra from St. Paul, Minnesota, serving as the judge. The episode is structured into several rounds, each designed to showcase the strengths and weaknesses of both sides through humor, facts, and creative arguments.

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Round 1: Declaration of Greatness

Joy Dolo - Team Forts (02:34 - 10:47)

Joy kicks off the debate with a vivid description of her "Joy's Perfectly Paradoxical Palace," a fort that surpasses ordinary forts in imagination and functionality. She highlights the versatility of forts by referencing historical structures like the Orsini Fortress in Italy and the Marangar Fort in India, emphasizing that forts can be built anywhere using one’s imagination. Joy passionately argues that forts offer a personal sanctuary and a limitless playground for creativity. Notable quote:

"A fort is the perfect place to party with your own brain." [06:13]

Comrade Tripp - Team Puzzles (07:58 - 12:05)

Comrade counters by acknowledging the fun aspects of forts but points out their temporary nature and the inevitable messiness involved. He argues that puzzles provide a lasting sense of achievement and cognitive benefits. Highlighting the historical significance of puzzles, he mentions John Spilsbury, the creator of some of the first jigsaw puzzles, and elaborates on the diverse types of puzzles available today. Comrade emphasizes that puzzles enhance logical thinking and problem-solving skills. Notable quote:

"Solving puzzles connects the puzzle pieces in your head." [14:17]

Judging by Petra (10:53 - 11:04)

Petra is impressed by Joy’s elaborate fort description and expresses a desire to live in such a creative space:

"I loved everything that was in the fort. How there was so many things. And I kind of want to live in the fort now." [10:56]

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Round 2: Micro Round - Rant and Rave

Comrade Tripp - Team Puzzles (26:36 - 29:42)

Comrade delivers a humorous rant about the impracticality and discomfort of forts, including playful references to farts ruining the fort experience. He contrasts this with his praise for puzzles, describing them as a calming and fulfilling activity that provides a sense of accomplishment:

"Puzzles. Four stars. Put both reviews together and you get all five." [26:36]

Joy Dolo - Team Forts (28:42 - 30:10)

Joy personifies her cat, Princess Caroline, to humorously criticize puzzles as being overly complicated and indirect. She mocks puzzle feeders and their inefficiency compared to the straightforward fun of forts. Her playful approach underscores the simplicity and joy that forts bring:

"Puzzles have literally never made anyone happy." [29:43]

Judging by Petra (30:33 - 31:25)

Petra appreciates the creativity and humor in both debaters’ micro rounds:

"I really liked the cat. It was also really mad about puzzles because cats can't talk and so I don't know how you knew that, but you know, maybe you can read cats minds." [30:36]

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Round 3: Sneak Attack - Bedtime Stories

Joy Dolo - Team Forts (32:09 - 32:48)

Joy tells a simple bedtime story about a girl finding comfort in her ever-expanding fort, highlighting the fort’s role as a safe haven:

"Once upon a time, there was a girl who was so worried about everything in life... she fell so safely inside of her fort." [32:09]

Comrade Tripp - Team Puzzles (32:52 - 33:39)

Comrade narrates a story from Puzzletopia, where puzzle pieces strive to find their perfect match. He emphasizes themes of independence and self-acceptance, culminating in a simple moral:

"Be independent. Be yourself. That's the whole story." [33:02]

Judging by Petra (34:10 - 34:12)

Petra finds the stories engaging and evaluates them based on their ability to captivate and soothe:

"Think about which sign impressed you the most. Did someone make you sleepy? Did someone impress you with their vocal range?" [34:10]

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Round 4: Final Six - Six-Word Statements

Comrade Tripp - Team Puzzles (34:28 - 34:32)

Comrade succinctly captures the essence of puzzles:

"Put pieces in and peace out." [34:28]

Joy Dolo - Team Forts (34:40 - 34:53)

Joy delivers a rhythmic and repetitive six-word statement emphasizing fort grandeur:

"Fort. Beautiful. Fort. Spacious skies. Fort." [34:40]

Judging by Petra (35:03 - 35:06)

Petra finalizes her decision, focusing on the impactful nature of the final six-word statements:

"I have made my decision." [35:03]

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Conclusion and Winner Announcement (35:06 - 36:52)

After a closely contested debate, Petra declares the battle a tie, emphasizing the strengths of both teams. She encourages listeners to vote online to determine the ultimate winner. Both debaters commend each other’s efforts, acknowledging the balance between creativity in forts and the cognitive benefits of puzzles.

Petra's Final Decision:

"It all came down to the final six. I just. I really liked how it connected to the song you sing at the beginning." [35:34]

Call to Action: Listeners are urged to visit smashboom.org to cast their votes and participate in future debates.

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Additional Segments

State of Debate - Identifying Logical Fallacies (20:40 - 23:23)

The episode includes an educational segment where Molly and Joy explore the "appeal to nature" fallacy. They dissect a hypothetical scenario where a parent argues that homeschooling is better because it's more "natural," illustrating why such arguments are logically weak.

Notable Quote:

"It's a bad argument because not all natural things are good." [21:00]

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Behind the Scenes and Shout-Outs (37:42 - 39:56)

The episode concludes with acknowledgments to the production team and special shout-outs from debaters:

• Joy Dolo praises Fort Snelling in Minnesota.
• Comrade Tripp thanks the puzzle community and his family.
• Petra extends gratitude to her brother and mother.

Future Teaser: A sneak peek hints at the next debate: Gandalf vs. Snape, promising another exciting showdown.

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Final Thoughts

This Smash Boom Best episode expertly balances humor, creativity, and educational content, making the debate between Forts and Puzzles both entertaining and informative. Through well-structured rounds and dynamic interactions, the debaters highlight the unique benefits of their respective sides, encouraging listeners to think critically and engage in their own debates.

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Don’t Miss Out! Join the conversation and vote for your favorite team at smashboom.org. Subscribe to the Brains On Universe for more family-friendly debates and educational content.

Transcript

[Molly Bloom]

It is estimated that over 4 million people have been abducted by alien life forms, but only one of them asked for it. This is Elio of Earth.

[Joy Dolo]

If any aliens are listening, come and.

[Molly Bloom]

Get me from Disney and Pixar. Yes, it's really happening. He'll go where no one has gone before.

[Joy Dolo]

Welcome to the community.

[Petra]

This is the most beautiful place I've ever seen.

[Joy Dolo]

This is the bathroom.

[Molly Bloom]

Disney and Pixar's Elio. Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested only in theaters June 20th. Hi, this is Molly with something important to ask you. Like very important. Like so important. Imagine everything I'm saying is in all caps with giant font and underlined in glitter. The Brains on universe is public media, and public media is threatened like never before. To keep doing what we do, we need your help. We need you. That part's double underlined in glitter. Your donation can make sure Brainzon, smashboom, Best and more stick around through all of this uncertainty. But we need you to give now. Like, right now. Please go to brainson.org donate we have an amazing community of listeners, and we love answering your questions, hearing your mystery sounds, and admiring your incredible drawings. And the cool thing is this audience is big. Big. If every family that listens donated just $10, we'd be all set. But we truly mean it when we say any amount is helpful. $5, $25. Maybe you like prime numbers and want to give $31 or $83? Just head to brainson.org donate. That's brainson.org donate and when you give, picture me saying thank you so much in rainbow font surrounded by heart emojis with extra glitter. Thank you from the brains behind Brains On. It's Smash Boom Best, the show for.

[Petra]

People with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate requires a little concentration and is seen across the nation. Put your hands together for Forts vs. Puzzles. We've got Forever Ago host Joy Dolo ready to rumble for Team Forts.

[Joy Dolo]

Fort Beautiful Fort Spacious skies. Fort Amber Waves of Fort. Please hold your applause.

[Molly Bloom]

And comedian Comrade Tripp here to defend Team Puzzles.

[Comrade Tripp]

I can't sing, but Puzzles, they're. They're good. I was overwhelmed by patriotism, not my beautiful singing voice. Sure. That too.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

And here to judge it all is Petra from St. Paul, Minnesota. Petra loves to write, plays the saxophone, and has a dog named Luna. Hi, Petra.

[Petra]

Hi, Molly.

[Molly Bloom]

So you play the saxophone. Can I ask what your favorite type of music to play is.

[Petra]

So we're playing greatest showman right now. And I play the Barry saxophone. So that's the really tall one with the twirly thing. And sometimes I play alto, sometimes I play Barry. I play tenor and I love playing the da da da da da da. That's my favorite part to play.

[Molly Bloom]

And Barry sax is like. It's huge.

[Petra]

Yeah, it's almost as tall as me, so that's so cool.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, you have a dog, but I'm told she isn't the only pet you get to play with since your dad's a vet.

[Petra]

Yeah, so my dad is a vet. His clinic is like right across the street from our house. So I walk over there and get to hang out with all the fun pets. And I do clean rooms. Cause I find that part also fun. But yeah, I also get to sometimes cuddle the pets if they just had surgery or something like that.

[Molly Bloom]

Aw, that's awesome.

[Joy Dolo]

If you're interested in cleaning pet rooms. I also have a dog and it's not my favorite part of having him.

[Molly Bloom]

So, Petra, you've listened to Smash Moon Best. Do you have any advice for our debaters today?

[Petra]

Use a lot of funny jokes. I love funny jokes. And write down notes so that you can rebut against them a lot.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent advice. Will Petra side with Joy or Comrade? Only time will tell.

[Petra]

But first, smashboom Best is a non profit public radio program.

[Molly Bloom]

That's right. Which means we rely on support from our listeners to keep the show going. There are lots of ways you can support the show.

[Petra]

You can donate by becoming a smartypass subscriber or buy our merch like a.

[Molly Bloom]

Smashboom Best hoodie, pencil pouch or keychain.

[Petra]

Head to smashboom.org to show your support. Thanks.

[Molly Bloom]

Now on to the rules. Every debate consists of four. The declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge Petra will award points to the team that impresses her the most. But she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. Down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. Okay. Joy, Comrade and Petra, are you ready?

[Petra]

Yes.

[Joy Dolo]

I was fort for this. I was gonna say born in fort. It doesn't work. Yes, I'm ready. I'm ready everybody.

[Comrade Tripp]

That was impressive.

[Joy Dolo]

Was it?

[Molly Bloom]

Oh. Then it's time for the declaration of greatness. In this round, our debaters will Present a well crafted immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And Joy, you're up first. Tell us why we're fortunate to have forts.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, hey, friends. I was just heading inside my fort under the kitchen table. Wanna check it? Watch your heads. I call it Joy's perfectly paradoxical palace because it's way bigger on the inside than on the outside. It's like an endless hallway and a set of Russian nesting dolls at a baby. There's a pickleball court, trampoline, movie theater, herb garden, plus seven bathrooms. And over here is the frozen yogurt machine. Seventeen flavors and infinite gummy worms. My fort has everything I could possibly need. It's the best place in the entire world. People have been building forts for thousands of years. And not just under their kitchen tables. There are tons of extremely cool real life forts all around the world. Like the Orsini fortress in Italy that has a museum, a moat, a drawbridge, and a friendly fox.

[Petra]

Whoa.

[Joy Dolo]

Or the Marangar fort in India, which stands on a cliff hundreds of feet above the city and is decorated with incredible paintings. And if you can't visit India or Italy, don't despair. You can still make the fort of your dreams with the greatest tool of all. Your imagination. A fort is the perfect place to party with your own brain. You can build one pretty much anywhere you want. Outside with tree branches, inside with couch cushions on a sandy beach. So many possibilities. Hi, I'm Dan Fortley iv, Fort Lauderdale's best fort realtor, and I'm here to.

[Comrade Tripp]

Find you your forever fort.

[Joy Dolo]

This one's a steal.

[Molly Bloom]

It's behind the couch.

[Joy Dolo]

It comes with the dust bunny gladiator arena, a bottomless chicken nugget buffet, and a rock climbing wall. Listen, puzzles are okay. Like, if you can't make a fort and there's nothing else to do, who wouldn't want to make a picture out of tiny shapes? Over the course of several long, excruciating hours.

[Comrade Tripp]

Only 639 pieces to go.

[Joy Dolo]

Just need to. A puzzle just doesn't do anything for my imagination. The picture is already there. If puzzles are good for anything, they're a way to turn off your brain and just cruise along finding shapes. That is, unless several of those puzzle pieces go missing because your cat knocked them off the table and then your dog ate them. Not only is designing and building a fort a top notch way to use your noggin, you can use a fort in tons of different ways. Feeling sleepy and cozy. Boom. Blanket fort. Ready for a rumpus with your pals? Schlablazzle. Pillafort. Wrestling ring combo. Want to sit in the dappled forest shade and contemplate the delicate yet chaotic balance of the universe? Doink. Tree fort. So versatile. The point is, forts let you decide. Kids don't always get a whole lot of say in their lives. Parents, teachers, and other grown ups make the rules and decisions, but putting up a fort or designing one on paper is something that kids can do on their own. Attention, please.

[Petra]

I call this meeting of the Fort.

[Joy Dolo]

Fluffington fuzzies to order. Since I have to apparently wait until.

[Petra]

I'm a teenager to learn how to.

[Molly Bloom]

Drive a car, I declare Fort Fluffington to also be a magical vehicle.

[Joy Dolo]

With forts, you're in the driver's seat. Plus, they can give you some time away from other people. And everybody needs that sometimes. I mean, even Superman had his fortress of Solitude where he could take a break from superhero stuff and his journalism day job. Forts. Come on. They can be a cool way to learn some history or help you rev up your imagination. They could be a home away from home, but very close to home. A place where you can carve out the space you need. Plus, you can fill your fort with whatever you want. Oh, speaking of which, what do you say we get some Fort Froyo with unlimited mix ins? Last one. There's a wet puzzle piece that my cat barfed up on the floor.

[Molly Bloom]

Yes. To the froyo. Thank you so much for the invitation.

[Joy Dolo]

That made me hungry.

[Molly Bloom]

Petra, what stood out to you about Joy's declaration of greatness?

[Petra]

I loved everything that was in the fort. How there was so many things. And I kind of want to live in the fort now. You made me want to live there.

[Joy Dolo]

There's room. It's in my imagination. There's 17 million rooms. You can pick one.

[Petra]

And seven toilets.

[Joy Dolo]

And seven toilets. We can put more in, though.

[Petra]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

It's anything we want, Petra. It's anything.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, comrade, it's time for your rebuttal. Tell us why a fort is a dire destination. And you've got 30 seconds and your time starts now.

[Comrade Tripp]

That was an incredible declaration. But not that incredible. Forts. Yeah, they have lots of cool things. But eventually all those cool things will have to go back to where they belong. In your stuff. You can't. If you have a blanket fort, eventually you have to wash those blankets and put them back on your bed. Feeling sleepy? Yeah. After making a fort and then having to unmake it and put things back to where they belong. And the fort is gone forever. Yeah. I would feel sleepy, too. Imagination. Seven imaginary bathrooms. I have to use real bathrooms.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah. You know, it's. It's true that, you know, sometimes you got to take the blankets down and wash them, but the memories last forever.

[Comrade Tripp]

I have a terrible memory.

[Joy Dolo]

The imaginary memories. You'd think with puzzles that you'd have a good memory.

[Comrade Tripp]

I do.

[Joy Dolo]

Well, then. Makes me wonder about you.

[Comrade Tripp]

So I should do more puzzles?

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, I'm saying you should use your imagination more. Your imagination will open up so many things.

[Comrade Tripp]

I'll imagine that.

[Joy Dolo]

You can imagine.

[Comrade Tripp]

Greatness was better.

[Joy Dolo]

I'm gonna imagine that. You're gonna win this. It's not working. It's not working.

[Molly Bloom]

Comrade, it's your turn. Tell us why puzzles are simply the best.

[Comrade Tripp]

It's raining outside. And also in your heart, you have nothing going on, nothing to do except stare at the ceiling and breathe. You're just awake, expecting to go back to sleep at the end of the day as the same person that you were when you woke up having achieved nothing. Lo, there is an activity to fill your day, something to connect and create a jigsaw puzzle. Suddenly, you feel reinvigorated, or maybe just invigorated for the very first time with a reason to get out of bed and be a person. Sometimes the only problems we can solve come in a box marked third and up. Puzzles are the perfect pastime for people from all places. One of the first people to break something solely with the intention of putting it back together was John Spilsbury. From the name, he sounds like someone who often drops croissants. But he was actually a British mapmaker. In the 1760s, he made some of the first jigsaw puzzles by pasting maps on wooden boards, then cutting them up into pieces.

[Molly Bloom]

Mr. Spillsbury, what have you done to these maps?

[Joy Dolo]

It's for the children. Now they'll know the world piece by piece.

[Molly Bloom]

Could we not have simply given them the maps as they were? Pish posh.

[Joy Dolo]

Where's the fun in that?

[Comrade Tripp]

And what fun they were. The love for puzzles has only grown since then. And puzzles themselves have grown to include many different types. Jigsaw, Rubik, Sudoku, Wheel of Fortune, Minesweeper, Candy Crush, Tetris, Legos, escape rooms. There's no shortage of puzzles. A puzzle is anything fun that makes you think. And thinking is kind of a big deal. Studies show that doing puzzles reinforces connections between cells in your brain called neurons. In other Words. Solving puzzles connects the puzzle pieces in your head. Being able to solve puzzles is the barometer of braininess. They are the tests of your understanding of logic, knowledge and ingenuity in a structured way. Gabby, you can't play Tetris all day.

[Petra]

How else will I increase my dexterity and the connectivity of my neurons? Dad, think of my neurons.

[Joy Dolo]

Fine. Five more minutes. Oh yeah.

[Petra]

After this, I'll do the crossword to further my cognitive ability to my neurons will be unstoppable.

[Comrade Tripp]

The popularity of puzzles is not at all puzzling. Some of the first toys we play with when we're young are puzzles. Fitting square shaped blocks into square shaped holes. Nesting cups that fit inside each other. Stacking donut shaped rings by size. And since the day I was born, I've been solving the puzzles of life. How to move my legs to walk, my mouth to speak, my butt to poop. Everything we will ever do is a puzzle. Even a fort can be a puzzle, but not a very good one. Writing this declaration of greatness was a puzzle for me. Organizing all of these arguments and sketches to make a cohesive essay was a puzzle. Plus, you can multitask while puzzling, divide your attention. You can listen to this podcast while you solve puzzles. That's the circle of puzzles and it moves us all. Can you make a fort whilst listening to the sound of my voice? Please don't. You can do anything while doing a puzzle, even another puzzle. But multitasking is also a puzzle in itself. Take on too many things at once and they'll be calling you Mr. Spillsbury. Puzzles can fill your day or your week or your entire life, depending on how many pieces there are. Sometimes a puzzle can be frustrating. You get stuck or you can't find the right piece. But it's a good kind of frustration because eventually you figure it out and that makes the next puzzle you face, no matter what kind, a little easier and a little less frustrating. Puzzles aren't just something to do. They're everything we've ever done, everything that has helped us and will continue to help us. Challenging, exact, and most importantly, fun. They're fun.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay. Puzzles are everything. And that declaration of greatness was everything. Petra, what stood out to you about comrades argument?

[Petra]

Well, taking a bunch of things on at once. I do that a lot. I have way too many sports that I can't keep track of. Just can't. And also I love the addition of the three plus because that's. It's a lot that happens a lot. And also I like the misery at the Beginning when it was like. When it was like you have nothing to do. And then there's the puzzles that come and show up really like that.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent work. Okay, Joy, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why puzzles are pointless. You've got 30 seconds and your time starts. Now.

[Joy Dolo]

Puzzles are a thing, but I encourage you all to think outside of the puzzle box. Hold for laughter. Pasting maps. I mean, talk about messy. You're talking about cleaning up blankets. If you're pasting maps and cutting them up, do you know how much paste that is? Have you ever stuck your. Have you had Elmer's glue on your hand? Does that peely thing. What a mess. Also, studies have shown that using your imagination comes from your hippocampus, which is really great for helping you solve other problems. So you're not only using your imagination. It's going to help you with your memory. It's going to help you problem solve. It's going to help you imagine different scenarios. And with puzzles, you get one picture.

[Comrade Tripp]

Yeah, I mean, paste. I mean, it's for the children, though, Joy. It's for the children. For the good of mankind.

[Joy Dolo]

Paste.

[Comrade Tripp]

Paste. Pasting to make puzzles.

[Joy Dolo]

That seems a little confusing to me. Yeah. Puzzles last forever until your cat eats them.

[Comrade Tripp]

Yeah. And then your cat.

[Joy Dolo]

And then they're regurgitated.

[Comrade Tripp]

Yeah. Then they still fit. They'll still kind of fit.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Petra, it is time to award some points. So please give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision? Yes. Wonderful. Comrade and Joy, how are you two feeling so far?

[Joy Dolo]

You know, I think we trained for this. I think we're ready. You know, I've recently learned how to run a mile. I haven't done it yet, but I'm thinking I'm gonna do it.

[Comrade Tripp]

I've also trained. I did some crossword puzzles. I tried to make my own crossword puzzle. I tried to. I didn't do very well. I used a lot of three letter words. We're here. I think I have a very worthy opponent and a worthy judge and a worthy cause. Okay, there's the second song.

[Joy Dolo]

There's gonna be one more.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, it's time for a quick break. Look for your corner pieces and set up your couch cushions.

[Petra]

And we'll be right back with more smashboom Vest.

[Molly Bloom]

You're listening to State of Debate.

[Joy Dolo]

Home to rage and rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation. Howdy, campers. Todd Douglas here in the great outdoors with my campside companion, Taylor Lincoln.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, that's right.

[Joy Dolo]

We hiked up to this beautiful scenic vista to use our eagle eyes to.

[Molly Bloom]

Spot a logical fallacy in the wild.

[Joy Dolo]

A logical fallacy is a weak argument that can easily make your case. Tip over, over and go. Timber. Yep. And today we're on the hunt for.

[Molly Bloom]

The appeal to nature fallacy. That's when you argue something is right just because it's more natural.

[Joy Dolo]

It's a bad argument because not all natural things are good. And what does natural even mean? It's hard to pin down.

[Petra]

Shh.

[Molly Bloom]

Todd, I think I see the fallacy now. It's over yonder at the campsite. Downhill.

[Joy Dolo]

Lets listen in.

[Molly Bloom]

Ah, a weekend in the wilderness.

[Joy Dolo]

What a great way to end the summer.

[Molly Bloom]

I know. And look at our child, little Jamie, playing on the rocks and in the trees.

[Joy Dolo]

Just like nature intended.

[Comrade Tripp]

Yep.

[Joy Dolo]

The next week, Jamie starts the first week of school. What a big deal, huh, hon?

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah, so about that.

[Joy Dolo]

I decided Jamie's not going.

[Comrade Tripp]

Um, excuse me.

[Joy Dolo]

We both think education is super important.

[Comrade Tripp]

So why not go to school?

[Joy Dolo]

Because I realized Jamie should be learning out here in the woods.

[Molly Bloom]

Collecting pinecones, learning to forage and build shelter. Everything little Jamie needs to know is being taught out here in the wild.

[Joy Dolo]

But Jamie also needs to learn reading and writing and math at school.

[Comrade Tripp]

School.

[Joy Dolo]

Or at least with some kind of teacher.

[Molly Bloom]

Nature is the teacher and the forest is the classroom. Do you see wild animals going to school? No. They learn by doing out here in the woods.

[Joy Dolo]

And we're animals, so we should do what's natural.

[Molly Bloom]

Come on, let's live in the woods.

[Joy Dolo]

And hunt our meals. You had pizza delivered to our tent last night.

[Molly Bloom]

Jamie needs to heal the call of the wild.

[Joy Dolo]

There it is.

[Molly Bloom]

The fearsome logical fallacy called appeal to nature.

[Joy Dolo]

See it in all its frightening glory.

[Molly Bloom]

Spending time in nature is great, but it's also important to make arguments backed up with evidence. Like saying going to school helps kids learn skills they might need later in life.

[Joy Dolo]

Like how to use logic when debating.

[Molly Bloom]

Exactly. Now let's get our campfire going and.

[Comrade Tripp]

Mmm.

[Molly Bloom]

Did I hear there's a pizza place.

[Joy Dolo]

That delivers out here? Cause I could really go for a slice of pineapple pepperoni. Oh, me too. See you next time on State of Faith.

[Molly Bloom]

It is estimated that over 4 million people have been abducted by alien life forms. But only one of them asked for it.

[Joy Dolo]

This is Elio of Earth Day Phenyl. Aliens are listening.

[Molly Bloom]

Come and get me from Disney and Pixar. Yes, it's really happening. He'll go where no one has gone before.

[Joy Dolo]

Welcome to the community Verse.

[Petra]

This is the most beautiful place I've ever seen.

[Joy Dolo]

This is the bathroom.

[Molly Bloom]

Disney and Pixar's Elio. Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested only in theaters June 20.

[Joy Dolo]

Brains on Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom. Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore. It's Alien exercise hour. Hi yah hoo ha. While I stretch my snoodles and bounce on my trampolini, I'll listen to a new podcast I'm going to try Forever Ago, the best history podcast ever. To understand why anyone would think a TV show could change the world, we need to go way back to America. In the 1960s.

[Petra]

Rock and roll was pretty new.

[Joy Dolo]

Ford released the iconic Mustang Muscle Zorp. Come back here.

[Molly Bloom]

Podcast.

[Joy Dolo]

Must listen to Forever Ago. Now listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.

[Comrade Tripp]

Boom.

[Molly Bloom]

Smash. Smash.

[Comrade Tripp]

Boom.

[Molly Bloom]

Best. You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.

[Petra]

And I'm your judge, Petra.

[Molly Bloom]

And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this video Forceful debate idea from Charles. Hi, Spanish Moonvest. My name is Charles and I'm a global citizen now living in Madagascar. My debate idea is Kylo Ren versus Darth Vader.

[Petra]

Nothing beats a debate from a far away galaxy.

[Molly Bloom]

We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Charles thinks should win.

[Petra]

And now it's back to our debate. Forts versus Puzzles.

[Molly Bloom]

That's right. And it's time for round two, the micro round. For the micro, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Joy and Comrade, the prompt was Rant and Rave. For this challenge, we want you to rant for one minute about your opponent and rave about your side for another. Joy went first last time. So comrade, you're up. Give us your rave review for puzzles and searing rant for forts.

[Comrade Tripp]

I recently stayed at a pillow fort designed by my nephew. He stands at 3fe inches, but not even he could stand within this structure. Even calling it a structure is a stretch because when I tried to stretch, the whole thing nearly collapsed. It made me envy my former self before I was ever trapped within this fort. Fort is one letter Away from fart, which is also something that immediately ruined the fort. Forts are very easy to ruin immediately. No windows, non existent airflow, zero amenities. One star for forts. Technically, half a star. But I'm rounding up for family. The only saving grace of my stay was a puzzle that occupied my time while the walls around me wobbled. It was a welcome distraction from every thought in my mind. The puzzle was of an igloo, which I would have gladly preferred over this fort. I have suffered, but the puzzle almost made me forget about the pain in my lower back and the smell of the fart in my nose and in my mouth. Each time I connected one piece to another, I felt a calm wash over me. Creating a single image of a snowy structure was somehow able to melt my cold heart. Puzzles. Four stars. Put both reviews together and you get all five. That's another puzzle. I formally request a refund for the fort experience. I casually request a hug.

[Joy Dolo]

Did you fart in the fort?

[Comrade Tripp]

I fart in every room I move.

[Joy Dolo]

Have you farted in this room?

[Comrade Tripp]

Yes, probably. I think we all have, have we not?

[Joy Dolo]

I haven't farted in this room yet. That is yet to be determined. Yeah, it is yet to be determined.

[Molly Bloom]

Joy.

[Joy Dolo]

Yes?

[Molly Bloom]

It's your turn. Time to sell us on the finer points of forts and rant about pesky puzzles.

[Joy Dolo]

Hello. I'm Joy's very real, somewhat ornery cat, Princess Caroline. Meow. And this is my favorite place in the world. Fort Fir mixalot. Everything I need, real or imaginary, is here. My collection of body hair circa 1994, the string I found under the desk, and another string I found in the bathroom. Joy's cell phone and a photo of my boyfriend, Cat Stevens, the tabby from the alley down the street. Oh, good. Here comes Joy with a bowl of some yummy salmon niblets.

[Comrade Tripp]

Oh, no.

[Joy Dolo]

It's in a puzzle feeder. I'll have to figure out how to unlock it, then hit a button, then chase a plastic bird before I get my treat. Don't tell me that's a real bird. I know it's fake.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh.

[Joy Dolo]

Meow. Those puzzle feeders are almost as bad as those word puzzles I see strewn about the place. Why must everything be be so indirect? Puzzles. Find the end of the maze. Search all the numbers in the right rows. Look for the hidden words. There is a reason why the riddler was the bad guy in Batman. What do you expect when your life revolves around puzzles? Puzzles have literally never made anyone happy.

[Molly Bloom]

Period.

[Joy Dolo]

The end. Meow. Oh, that's my cat, Timer. I Better head back to Fort Fer mix a lot. I hope I'm not late for my mid morning breakfast nap. Meow. Meow. Meow.

[Molly Bloom]

Petra, what did you like about joy and comrades micro rounds?

[Petra]

I really liked the cat. It was also really mad about puzzles because cats can't talk and so I don't know how you knew that, but you know, maybe you can read cats minds.

[Joy Dolo]

My cat? Yeah.

[Petra]

Oh, only your cat.

[Joy Dolo]

Nobody else's cat, just my cat.

[Petra]

Oh, okay. And then for the puzzles, mic around. I liked how you said how forts were not good because of all the things that can happen to them and how they're not good because only even people that are 3 foot can't even fit in them.

[Comrade Tripp]

So.

[Molly Bloom]

All right. Well Petra, it is time to award a point. The criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you. Please award your point. Have you made your decision?

[Petra]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round. The super stealthy sneak attack. This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called end it on a high note on the fly. Come up with a bedtime story designed to put a kid to sleep. As you go along, you need to tell it in a voice that gets higher pitched and more falsetto until it's super high. And I'm going to time. You only have 30 seconds. Does this make sense? Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, great. Yes. Start very low. All right, Joy, you are up. Your time begins now.

[Joy Dolo]

Once upon a time, there was a girl who was so worried about everything in life. She was worried about school and her friends and her parents. But then she found a pillow. And the pillow found another pillow and the pillow found another pillow. And those pillows formed a fort. And she fell so safety inside of.

[Molly Bloom]

Her fort and time.

[Joy Dolo]

All I wrote down was once upon a time in fort. Perfect.

[Molly Bloom]

Perfect. That's all you need. Okay comrade, it's your turn. Let's hear your bedtime story about puzzles. You, your 30 seconds begins now.

[Comrade Tripp]

Once upon a time, in the land of puzzletopia, there was a small puzzle piece. Every person in Puzzle topia was a puzzle piece. And their life goal was to find the pieces that they fit in together. But there was one puzzle piece that had no other puzzle pieces that fit into it. So it was alone. And it was me. I was that puzzle piece. But then the puzzle piece, the lone puzzle piece, looked in a mirror. He connected to himself. He was fine alone. And that's okay. Be independent. Be yourself. That's the whole story. Sometimes A. And that's the whole puzzle at the end.

[Molly Bloom]

And time.

[Comrade Tripp]

I tried to put a moral, but it was.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, I know.

[Molly Bloom]

It's tough.

[Joy Dolo]

It's tough finding a moral at the end.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Petra, this is tough, but it's time to award a point for this sneak attack. Think about which sign impressed you the most. Did someone make you sleepy? Did someone impress you with their vocal range? Did someone sneak a nice little message in there? The criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you. Have you made your decision?

[Petra]

I have.

[Molly Bloom]

Perfect. Then it's time for our final round. The final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Comrade, let's hear your six words on the power of puzzles.

[Comrade Tripp]

Put pieces in and peace out.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, very nice. Okay, Joy, it's your turn. Give us six words on why you're fond of forts.

[Joy Dolo]

Fort. Beautiful. Fort. Spacious skies. Fort.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Petra, it is time to award a final point for the final six. Have you made your decision?

[Petra]

I have made my decision.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one team, the smashboom Best?

[Petra]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Drum roll, please. And the winner is for.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh. Oh, no. Oh, no. Are you okay?

[Comrade Tripp]

No. I understand.

[Petra]

It all came down to the final six. I just. I really liked how it connected to the song you sing at the beginning.

[Molly Bloom]

As close can be.

[Petra]

Everybody had equal points. And then it all came down to the final six.

[Molly Bloom]

A well fought battle.

[Joy Dolo]

Comrade. I really enjoyed your facts about puzzles. You know, it is. It is actually puzzles and forts are good for cognitive development. They're good for problem solving and analytical logistical stuff. So you did a good job and I like your vest.

[Comrade Tripp]

Thank you.

[Molly Bloom]

It's a really good vest. You should probably go watch the video at Brainzons YouTube channel so you can see the best.

[Comrade Tripp]

Joy, I thought your singing was excellent. Beautiful singing. You're. You're so imaginative and you were able to weave that into the structure of not only the physical structure of puzzles, but the structure of your arguments. That was beautiful. I like your shirt. Dress. Flowers. Orchids. What kind of flowers?

[Joy Dolo]

Target. Target.

[Comrade Tripp]

Target. Ah. Beautiful. Yeah. Well done.

[Molly Bloom]

And that's it for today's debate. Battle Petra. Crown Forts. The Smashboom Best. But what about you?

[Petra]

Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.

[Molly Bloom]

Smashboom Best is brought to you by Brainson and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom, Anna Weigel, and Aron Woldesilassi. We had engineering help from Michael Osborne and Evan Clark. With sound design by Aron Woldeselassi. Our editors are Shayla Farzan and Sandon Totten with fact checking by Rebecca Rand. And we had production help from the rest of the brains on Universe team. Rosie Dupont, Rachel Breese, Anna Goldfield, Nico Gonzalez Whistler, Ruby Guthrie, Lauren Humphert, Joshua Wright, Rebecca Rand, Mark Sanchez and Charlotte Traver. Our executive producer is Beth Perlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Foyer worker Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Lulu, Austin, Cross and Taylor. Coffee Joy. Is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?

[Joy Dolo]

I'd like to give a shout out to everyone at Fort Snelling. It's a really fun place if you live in Minnesota to go visit. It's a local historical fort and I like history, so.

[Molly Bloom]

And how about you, comrade? Any special shout outs?

[Comrade Tripp]

Just everyone in the Puzzled community and my family. My niece and nephew who I care about, I'll name Dylan. He's nine. Malayla. She's four. We do puzzles together sometimes. We don't do forts anymore. No more forts for us.

[Joy Dolo]

It's never too late.

[Comrade Tripp]

Yeah, yeah, that's. I love them. Thank them.

[Molly Bloom]

And Petra, do you want to give any special thanks or shout outs?

[Petra]

I'd like to give a shout out to my brother for going to the live show of Forever Go and meeting and my mom for being super chatty and talking. Talking to somebody that does. And so I got to do the podcast.

[Molly Bloom]

We're so glad you're here. Before we go, let's check in and see who Charles thinks should win the Kylo Ren versus Darth Vader debate. I think Kylo Ren should win because he has a nicer lightsaber. A cooler one. And even though Darth Vader has a better connection with the Force, I think.

[Petra]

He should win because he's a little bit more powerful.

[Molly Bloom]

If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knockdown drag out debate, head to smashboom.org contact and drop us a line. And while you're at it, join Smarty Pass for bonus episodes and ad free versions of all four shows in the Brainzone universe. We'll be back with the new smashboom Best debate battle next week. Gandalf versus Snape.

[Joy Dolo]

Bye bye.

[Comrade Tripp]

See you later or never again.

[Molly Bloom]

Bye.

[Joy Dolo]

Better than the rest.

[Comrade Tripp]

My plan for puzzles is perfect.

[Joy Dolo]

Powder.