Invisibility vs. Flying

Summary

Podcast Summary: Smash Boom Best – “Invisibility vs. Flying”

Podcast: Smash Boom Best (Brains On Universe)
Episode Date: July 3, 2019
Host: Molly Bloom
Debaters: Katie McVeigh (Invisibility) vs. Brandi Brown (Flying)
Judge: Ronak

---

Overview

This fun, high-spirited episode of Smash Boom Best throws two ultimate superpowers into the debate arena: Invisibility vs. Flying. With humor, real science, and creative arguments, comedian Katie McVeigh faces off with comedian Brandi Brown, each defending their chosen side. Judge Ronak, a self-described science enthusiast, decides which superpower reigns supreme—all while listeners learn about debate skills, logic, and a bit of pop culture and history.

Episode Structure:

• Declaration of Greatness
• Micro Round (Amusement Park Challenge)
• Sneak Attack (Improv Haiku)
• The Final Six (six-word summary arguments)
• Judge’s Decision

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Thoughts & Superpower Appeal

• Host and judge introduce the debate: Invisibility (the ultimate disguise) vs. Flying (freedom of the skies).
• Early perspectives:
  • Flying offers escape and independence.
  • Invisibility is unique and “cooler” because it’s technologically unattainable.
• Judge Ronak: Expresses he’s “undecided” as both have pros; likes debate for connecting and making people laugh.

  “Yeah, I’ve probably spent an unhealthy amount of time thinking about this.” (Ronak, 01:10)

2. Declaration of Greatness

Invisibility (Katie McVeigh, 05:16):

• Historical angle: Plato’s "Ring of Gyges"—invisibility raises moral questions and temptations.
• Pop culture references:
  • Harry Potter: Invisibility cloak for secret adventures.
  • Fantastic Four: Sue Storm (Invisible Woman), a hero and perfect spy.
• Nature’s invisibility:
  • Camouflage as a survival tool for animals (octopus, especially the mimic octopus).

  “It can figure out what to impersonate based on the animal attacking it.” (Katie, 07:15)

• Real science:
  • Attempts to engineer invisibility through “metamaterials” that bend light; University of Rochester’s lens experiment.

  “Metamaterials seem, like, awesome.” (Ronak, 10:35)

• Personal twist:
  • Practical uses: dodging small talk, playing pranks, secret museum visits.

  “If it became possible, I’m definitely booking a ticket to see the Mona Lisa after dark.” (Katie, 09:56)

Flying (Brandi Brown, 12:06):

• Practicality and daily life:
  • Getting pizza while helping friends move to a 10th-floor apartment.
  • Quick escapes from danger or sticky situations.

  “How would being invisible help you get pizza faster? Oh, right. It wouldn’t.” (Brandi, 12:06)

• Game-changer for humanity:
  • Planes, helicopters save lives and make possible daring rescues (e.g., wildfire suppression, mountain rescues).
• Flying in nature:
  • Birds and insects as natural flyers; migration feats (Arctic tern: 50,000 miles/year).

  “Common swifts…can spend up to 10 months in the air without landing.” (Brandi, 13:58)

• Cultural inspiration:
  • Myths about flying (Pegasus, Icarus, flying carpets around the world).
• Superheroes:
  • Flying is for heroes: Superman, Captain Marvel, with Batman wishing he could fly.
• Uplifting real-life example:
  • Bessie Coleman, first Black woman in America with a pilot’s license—overcame discrimination and inspired generations.

  “The power of flight inspired a young woman to break down barriers and pave the way for generations of pilots. Vote flying.” (Brandi, 16:56)

---

3. Notable Rebuttals & Quotes

• Flying is practical, invisibility is mysterious:

  “Her big sell at the end was, let’s look at different fruits disappear. Wow, Katie, that’s amazing.” (Brandi, 11:04)

• Invisibility is for the introverts, flying is flashy:

  “Flying is basic. I hate it. Everybody’s doing it. Boring snooze police.” (Katie, 17:28)

• Debate tactics and the value of argument:

  “People are much more willing to accept your argument … if either they can relate to it personally or if they’re laughing their butt.” (Ronak, 02:25)

---

4. The Micro Round – Amusement Park Challenge (22:53)

Flying – “Soar and Glide” Amusement Park (Brandi, 22:53):

• Suits and accessible chairs for everyone.
• Wind tunnels for floating, VR superhero simulators.
• Blimp rides—sightseeing from above.
• Food court where you “dive” to grab food like a bird.
• Judge reaction: “It’s making all my childhood memories of pretending to be a superhero fly back to me.” (Ronak, 25:02)

Invisibility – “Invisibility Park” (Katie, 25:15):

• Invisible rides: play pranks undetected, eat invisible ice cream, relive memories while hiding during embarrassing ones.
• “Escape the Paparazzi” ride: dodge cameras with your invisibility.
• Judge reaction: “Sounds like a mind-bending, interesting experience for sure.” (Ronak, 26:23)

---

5. Sneak Attack – Improv Haiku (26:59)

Pro-Invisibility (Katie):

• “Fade yourself away. Invisibility. Nada. Zippo. Zilch.” (28:24)
• Against flying: “Soaring high, flashy. You will be hit in the face by a gross bird. Ouch.” (28:36)

Pro-Flying (Brandi):

• “Explore far and wide. The limit, the universe. Fly fast super power.” (28:55)
• Against invisibility: “Can’t see Katie now. It is not that cool. Amusement park sad.” (29:04)

---

6. Final Six – Six-Word Closing Arguments (29:34)

• Brandi/Flying: “Flying, many ways to be cooler.” (29:46)
• Katie/Invisibility: “Invisibility, the thinking man’s superpower.” (29:56)
• Judge on closing arguments:

  “I love the bumper sticker: Invisibility, the thinking man superpower. That’s good.” (Ronak, 30:47)

---

Winner & Judge’s Decision

Winner: Katie McVeigh, Invisibility

• Deciding Factors:
  • Invisibility is mysterious, not routine in human experience.
  • The “thinking man’s superpower” bumper sticker won Ronak over.

  “The deciding factors … invisibility was something we don’t have readily. And it’s kinda mysterious in a way. And God, I love the bumper sticker.” (Ronak, 30:47)

• Gracious acknowledgment: Brandi and Katie praise one another’s arguments and stories—especially Bessie Coleman’s inspiring tale.

---

Memorable Quotes & Standout Moments

• “You never have to make small talk with boring people again because you’re invisible.” (Katie McVeigh, 03:51)
• “You can zip through the skies doing all sorts of neat tricks.” (Brandi Brown, 04:17)
• “I know in fifth grade when the teacher didn’t call on me … I felt invisible. Which stinks. Or does it?” (Katie McVeigh, 05:16)
• “If a forest fire happens and you’re invisible, you’re still gonna die. But if you can fly away, you’ll be okay.” (Brandi Brown, 11:04)
• “Sure, flying is flashy. But invisibility is just plain cooler. It’s a harder scientific question, a more important moral concept.” (Katie McVeigh, 09:56)
• “Flight typically brings out the best in us. It inspires us in others. In fact, when you fly, you usually want to be seen.” (Brandi Brown, 14:00)
• “Invisibility, the thinking man’s superpower.” (Katie McVeigh, 29:56)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Opening Thoughts: 00:00–04:58
• Declaration of Greatness:
  • Invisibility: 05:16–10:27
  • Flying: 12:06–16:56
• Rebuttals & Judge Impressions: 10:27, 17:28
• Micro Round: Amusement Parks: 22:53–26:28
• Sneak Attack: Haiku Challenge: 26:59–29:18
• Final Six Words: 29:34–30:07
• Judgment & Winner Reveal: 30:13–31:41

---

Tone and Style

The debate is filled with light-hearted banter, zany side conversations, and playful teasing, with the host and guests maintaining an accessible, fun, and educational style for kids and families. The debaters use humor as well as factual knowledge. The judge admits to “massive nerd” tendencies and enjoys both imaginative and scientific arguments.

---

Conclusion

Smash Boom Best’s “Invisibility vs. Flying” showcases a clever, heated, and giggle-worthy debate over which superpower is better. Both sides present powerful arguments—practical, inspirational, scientific, and sneaky. In the end, invisibility’s mystique and moral complexity (with a dash of bumper-sticker wit) clinch the victory, but listeners are invited to weigh in with their own opinions.

---

Listener Call to Action:
“Head to smashboom.org and vote. You’ll see what other listeners think and whether they agree with Ronak’s decision.” (Molly, 31:41)

---

This engaging, insightful episode is ideal for family listening, road trips, or anyone looking to think critically—and laugh—about superpowers and the art of argument.

Transcript

[Ronak]

From the brains behind brains on, it's Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

Hello, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today we've got a superpower showdown on our hands. It's invisibility versus flying. The ultimate disguise versus the freedom of the skies. Flying is better because you can kind of get away from everything. You can fly all the time.

[Ronak]

Now in this new age of technology, invisibility is something that we haven't quite been able to do, and therefore it's just cooler.

[Brandi Brown]

I would have to say flying because if I just went invisible, my parents would be looking for me. Like, I wouldn't be able to get away with being invisible for long.

[Ronak]

I gotta give that one to flying, just because you can go anywhere you.

[Katie McVeigh]

Want without having to pay. Invisibility is cooler because then I wouldn't have to do my homework because you wouldn't be able to see me.

[Molly Bloom]

We've got Ronak here to help us decide which super skill is the coolest. Hi, Ronak.

[Ronak]

Hi, Molly.

[Molly Bloom]

So, Ronak, what are your thoughts about invisibility versus flying? Right off the bat, have you thought about which of these superpowers you'd rather have?

[Ronak]

Yeah, I've probably spent an unhealthy amount of time thinking about this. I mean, for me, honestly, the two are surprisingly related since if you think about it, anywhere you can get with flying, you can just get with walking invisibly and vice versa. I think obviously being invisible would be helpful a lot of the time since, you know, you could, you know, obviously making sure to do perfectly legal things, but, you know, you can go. You can go figure out the. That you need to know. But at the same time, flying is just, you know, cool and, you know, rather impressive, especially if you think of a Superman type situation.

[Molly Bloom]

So would you say that you have maybe a bias towards one or the other, or do you see the pros of both right now?

[Ronak]

Yeah, right now I think I'm undecided. There's definitely pros to both. I can't really think of any cons to either, so.

[Molly Bloom]

And how would you say that you feel about debates in general? Do you get into debates with your friends and family often?

[Ronak]

Yeah, unfortunately, I am one of those people who is all too ready to start debating in a very obviously reserved manner about anything from something serious to something silly, like the definition of a soup or a sandwich. I don't know if I'd Say I'm particularly good at it, but it happens.

[Molly Bloom]

So what advice would you have for our debaters today?

[Ronak]

I think people are much more willing to accept your argument or what you believe if either they can relate to it personally or if they're laughing their butt.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. So, Ronak, when you're not judging debates, you are really into science. And I know you were recently a finalist for a science talent contest. Can you tell us a little about that?

[Ronak]

Yeah. So this past year, I was selected as one of the top 40 finalists in the Regeneron Science talent search. So we got invited to Washington, D.C. to showcase our projects and also, you know, learn a lot about the city and about science and engineering. I developed a portable and low cost replacement for the device used to prescribe eyeglasses.

[Molly Bloom]

So how did you come up with that idea?

[Ronak]

Yeah, so I've been wearing glasses ever since I was like 8 years old. So I've had to go through the process. Anyone who wears glass or contacts knows of every year going back to the optometrist to get a new prescription, and I thought maybe I could improve that process.

[Molly Bloom]

That's awesome. I bet that'd be super useful if you live somewhere, like, not near an eye doctor or something.

[Ronak]

Yeah, that's the idea. To be used in areas that, like you said, don't have access to technology or human resources to get that done.

[Molly Bloom]

So cool. As someone who's also been wearing glasses since the age of eight, I thank you for your research.

[Ronak]

Absolutely.

[Molly Bloom]

Now, without further ado, it's time to introduce our debaters. Please welcome our veiled vixen of invisibility, queen of the unseen, Katie McVeigh.

[Katie McVeigh]

You can't see me, but you can hear me. Hi, Katie.

[Molly Bloom]

In one sentence, why do you think invisibility is cooler than flying?

[Katie McVeigh]

Well, you never have to make small talk with boring people again because you're invisible.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank you, Katie. And now. And now for our soaring star of flight. It's a bird. It's a plane. It's Brandi Brown.

[Brandi Brown]

Hello.

[Molly Bloom]

And Brandi, in just one sentence, why is flying the coolest?

[Brandi Brown]

It's great because you can zip through the skies doing all sorts of neat tricks.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, before we get started, let's run through the rules of the game. Round one is the declaration of greatness, a passionate presentation from each side full of facts, history, and lore. Round two is the micro round. Our debaters have prepared a response to a creative prompt. The funniest, most inspiring or moving response wins. Round three is the sneak attack. It's A surprise challenge designed to test a debater's ability to improvise. And round four is the final six, where each debater gets just six more words to convince us their side is the smash. Boom. Best. Got it, everybody?

[Ronak]

Yep.

[Katie McVeigh]

Yep.

[Ronak]

Sounds like a plan.

[Molly Bloom]

Awesome. Let the games begin. It's time for our first round declaration of greatness. We've flipped a coin, and Katie is up first. All right, Katie, let's hear it. Why is invisibility the coolest?

[Katie McVeigh]

We've all felt invisible at times. I know in fifth grade, when the teacher didn't call on me, despite my rapidly waving hand, I felt invisible. Which stinks. Or does it? What if you got to decide when you aren't seen? That's the true power of invisibility. When most of us think invisibility, we think magic. The ancient Greek philosopher Plato was one of the first we know of to write about this kind of invisibility. In his story, a shepherd named Yeez finds a magical ring that allows him to seemingly disappear.

[Ronak]

Ooh, invisible. I wonder what I can do with this.

[Katie McVeigh]

Well, he doesn't exactly do great. He travels to the palace and overthrows the king, illustrating Plato's point that all people will do bad things if they think they can get away with them.

[Molly Bloom]

Oops.

[Ronak]

Well, what are you gonna do?

[Katie McVeigh]

In literature, invisibility often brings up interesting moral questions about right and wrong. But sometimes it's just fun. In Harry Potter, Harry uses his father's magical invisibility cloak to sneak down to the village hogsmeade and have a relaxing day out by himself. And sometimes invisibility is even a force for good, like in comic books. Sue Storm, AKA the Invisible Woman, is a member of the Fantastic Four. She can make herself and other objects totally invisible, which is a pretty nifty power. She can rescue someone without being seen. She can easily trip henchmen with an invisible foot. Plus, she's the purr fect spy. Just alone in my lab. The best time to leave around top secret evil plans.

[Brandi Brown]

I'll take those, Yank.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank goodness I'm invisible now. Off to save the world.

[Katie McVeigh]

In nature, camouflage helps all kinds of animals and insects blend into their surroundings, essentially making them invisible. Ever heard of the octopus? Octopuses are great at hiding. They can change the color and even the texture of their skin to blend in with underwater plants. But wait until you hear about the mimic octopus or Thomoctopus. Mimicus.

[Molly Bloom]

I am a master of disguise. Sometimes I don't even recognize myself.

[Katie McVeigh]

It can figure out what to impersonate based on the animal attacking it. So let's say the mimic octopus sees a damselfish. Damselfish will go after any animal in its territory. But the damselfish is also super afraid of sea snakes.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, then one sea snake coming right up. Boom.

[Katie McVeigh]

The mimic octopus changes its color and waves its arms to make the fish think it's actually two sea snakes. Sea snakes. Yes.

[Brandi Brown]

I win.

[Katie McVeigh]

Okay, okay, I hear you. Maybe the ability to shift your skin isn't exciting enough. Not thrilling enough, not magical enough for you. Well, don't worry, because scientists are already working on real life. Close as we can get to magic. Invisibility. First, let's talk about eyes. For the human eye to see an object, light from that thing needs to bounce off of it and enter your eye. Then your eye and brain work together to process that light into an image. For example, when I look at my dog, light bounces off my dog into my eye, and then my brain processes it all to say, oh, that's my dog. Good boy. In order for something to be invisible, scientists need to redirect light itself. Okay, maybe not that dramatic. Imagine a table in front of you. On that table are two objects. Directly in front of you is a shiny red apple, and a few feet behind that is an orange. To make the apple invisible, light would need to bounce off the orange, then bend around the apple, missing it entirely, and hit your eyes. In that way, you'd see the orange but not the apple. Scientists at the University of Rochester were actually able to do this. They placed four lenses across a table at varying lengths. These lenses were able to redirect light so long as you were staring straight through them and render what was in the middle of the table invisible. If we did that experiment, you'd be able to see the orange but not the apple.

[Brandi Brown]

As long as you don't move, I can't see you.

[Katie McVeigh]

Scientists are currently testing something we call metamaterials, which they believe can redirect light in even cooler ways. The theory is that these metamaterials will be wrapped around unmoving objects and redirect light around them so that you can't see them. We're still a ways off from being able to hide large objects or things in motion. But invisibility is cool because it is challenging our minds. But flight is so boring, we figured that out decades ago. Personally, if I could be invisible, I know exactly what I'd do. I'd hide from people I don't want to talk to on the subway.

[Brandi Brown]

Hey, wasn't Katie just here?

[Katie McVeigh]

I'd pretend to be a ghost and scare my boyfriend on Halloween. And I'd totally sneak into museums at night not to steal anything, but just so I can see all the great art without any lines. Sure, flying is flashy, but invisibility is just plain cooler. It's a harder scientific question, a more important moral concept. And if it became possible, I'm definitely booking a ticket to see the Mona Lisa after dark.

[Molly Bloom]

Some excellent arguments for invisibility there. So, Ronak, what are one or two things in Katie's declaration of greatness that really stuck out to you?

[Ronak]

Yeah, I thought that the moral considerations at the beginning were an interesting take on it. And also, being a massive nerd myself, I really liked hearing about all the. All the cool things that scientists are working on to actually accomplish invisibility. And metamaterials seem, like, awesome.

[Molly Bloom]

Yes, that would be very handy to have available. So, Brandi, I know you're itching to respond, so you've got 30 seconds to respond to Katie's love letter to invisibility. And your time starts now.

[Brandi Brown]

Okay, first of all, Katie talks about the Invisible Woman. I just want to let you know that's basically the only superhero. We'll get to that later. She also talks about you can rescue people. That only matters if it, the danger can see you. And if it sees you, you'll get in trouble. But if a forest fire happens and you're invisible, you're still gonna die. But if you can fly away, you'll be okay. And her big sell at the end was, let's look at different fruits disappear. Wow, Katie, that's amazing. That's so exciting.

[Katie McVeigh]

Spoken like a true woman who has never wanted to convince her parents that she ate her Brussels sprouts when she didn't. I'm just saying.

[Brandi Brown]

Good, Katie, I agree with you, but.

[Katie McVeigh]

As a child, I found a lot of things frightening, okay? Including certain vegetables, which I find now to be leafy, delicious, and nutritious.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Brandi, it is time for flying to take center stage. Let's hear it.

[Brandi Brown]

Imagine you are helping a friend move to an apartment on the 10th floor. Now, imagine the elevator is broken, so you take the stairs. You carry boxes, chairs, a tv. And by the end, your legs are destroyed from all those steps. You're hungry, so you order a pizza. Hey, pizza's here. But then you realize you have to walk all the way down the stairs to get to the pizza. And then all the way up again. Your poor tired legs. If you had the power of flight, you could have flown down, grabbed the pie and then flown right back up to the apartment, saving so much time and energy. How would being invisible help you get pizza faster? Oh, right. It wouldn't. This is based on a true story from my own life, and it's an excellent example of why having flight would be super helpful. But flight is great for a lot more than picking up pizzas. Flight has cut international travel from days and weeks to just hours, and it can also save lives. Helicopters make daring mountaintop rescues. Large planes drop water on out of control forest fires. Flight makes so many rescues possible. Plus, it's the fastest way to escape danger. If you're lost in the woods, you can fly high and get your bearings. In fact, flight is so useful, nature has made it an essential feature for many, many creatures. Owl's wings don't make noise when they fly, making hunting way easier. Common swifts, a type of bird, can spend up to 10 months in the air without landing. Monarch butterflies migrate 3,000 miles to Mexico from Canada and the northern United States. And according to the New York Times, a bird called the Arctic tern can migrate almost 50,000 miles each year. That's like circling the earth at the equator twice.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, yeah.

[Katie McVeigh]

Impressive, right?

[Brandi Brown]

You should see the frequent flyer miles I've racked up. Flying is so much cooler than camouflage. Nature's invisibility. Given all that, it's no wonder humans have dreamt of flight for eons. Tales of flying creatures, people and gods can be found in cultures around the world. Greek mythology gave us the tales of Pegasus, a majestic flying horse, and Icarus, a man who flew too close to the sun, with wings his father made from wax and feathers. Many cultures have tales of magical flying carpets. There's the story of King Solomon of Israel using the wind to carry him on a carpet. And in a Russian folktale, Ivan the Fool receives a flying carpet to explore beyond his kingdom. There are so many superheroes who fly. Captain Marvel, Superman, Storm Batman doesn't even fly, but is named for a flying creature. He wishes he had that power. Being invisible, on the other hand, can bring out the worst in a person without being seen. They might want to steal things or sneak into places and do bad stuff. But flight typically brings out the best in us. It inspires us in others. In fact, when you fly, you usually want to be seen. One of my favorite examples is the tale of Bessie Coleman. Bessie Coleman was a black woman born in Atlanta, Georgia in 1892. She became interested in flying after hearing stories from pilots returning home from World War I.

[Molly Bloom]

One day, I'm Gonna fly one of those. In fact, I'm gonna be the best pilot in the world.

[Brandi Brown]

But when Bessie Coleman tried to enroll in American flight schools, she was turned away, either because of racism, sexism, or both.

[Molly Bloom]

If you think that's gonna stop me, think again.

[Brandi Brown]

Bessie learned French and moved to France, where she enrolled in a pilot school. In 1921, she received her international pilot's license and returned to the U.S. making her the first black woman in America to receive a pilot's license. For five years, Bessie was a stunt pilot who traveled the country, showing off her impressive skills.

[Katie McVeigh]

Get ready for the most spectacular air show you have ever seen.

[Molly Bloom]

In your gosh.

[Katie McVeigh]

Turn lives pilot extraordinaire Bessie Coleman will receive all the oohs and ahs in her new stunt show.

[Molly Bloom]

Check out this figure. Eight and a dip. And for my finale, the loop de loop.

[Brandi Brown]

Bessie also gave speeches about flying and raised funds to create a school to train black pilots. In 1926, she died tragically during a flight, but her legacy lives on. Today, schools, libraries, and airport roads have all been named for her. She received a postage stamp and was inducted into the National Aviation hall of Fame. The power of flight inspired a young woman to break down barriers and pave the way for generations of pilots. Vote flying. Thank you.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow. Ronak, what did you think of Brandy's case for flying?

[Ronak]

She made some good points about the practical nature of flying and all the things that humans do with flight that we maybe not might be able to do with invisibility. And I think the story about, you know, about people and their journeys through flight is also pretty powerful.

[Molly Bloom]

Very true. Okay, well, Katie, I know you have some things to say, so you've got 30 seconds to respond to Brandy's heartfelt tribute to flight. And your time starts now.

[Katie McVeigh]

I think it's very interesting that Brandi began her argument by suggesting we all let our legs atrophy so that we can fly to get pizzas and help our friends move. Something I'm always trying to get out of. Why would I want to get a power that helps me help my friends move a couch? I don't want it. No, thank you. Next point. Flying is basic. I hate it. Everybody's doing it. Boring snooze police. I hate it. And then also, yeah, maybe flying was majestic back in the day when we all thought we were going to be on magical carpets or whatever, but airplanes. I'm traveling right now. Okay.

[Brandi Brown]

I just want to point out that Katie wants to get out of helping her friends. Do you want to give someone like that. Invisibility. Absolutely.

[Molly Bloom]

Not bad.

[Katie McVeigh]

There's nothing that's going to help me get out of helping my friends more than hiding through my invisibil powers.

[Brandi Brown]

You can just fly away somewhere else where they can't.

[Katie McVeigh]

Oh, I'm in full. That's so showy, Brandi.

[Molly Bloom]

That's so showy.

[Katie McVeigh]

When I slink away from my friends, I want to do it silently.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Ronak, you've listened to both sides. Which argument did you think was more persuasive? Don't tell us out loud, but it's time to award a point.

[Ronak]

Ooh, it's tough.

[Molly Bloom]

It's very hard.

[Ronak]

I think I have my point.

[Molly Bloom]

Great listeners at home, you should award a point too. And if you need more time to think about it, just press pause. And if a debate idea comes to you while you're deliberating, head to smashboom.org and tell us all about it. Who knows? We may use your suggestion to spark a debate down the line. All right, debaters, you're gonna take a break, rest your wings and EAS off that invisibility cloak because it's time for the state of debate.

[Ronak]

We'll be back in a moment with more smash.

[Molly Bloom]

Boom. Best.

[Katie McVeigh]

You're watching State of Debate.

[Brandi Brown]

Home to rage and rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation. Todd Douglas here with eight time debate champ Taylor Lincoln.

[Katie McVeigh]

Todd, let's get right to it because debate can't wait. Sure can't.

[Brandi Brown]

And today we've got a matchup that features an epic failure of logic.

[Katie McVeigh]

That's right. It's an argument between a mother and a child.

[Molly Bloom]

Classic.

[Katie McVeigh]

She's trying to convince him to eat a cheeseburger and he's not having it. Oh yeah, and they're vampires. Totally vampires. Sundown.

[Molly Bloom]

Roll tape. Vlad, just taste the cheeseburger. We're vampires, mom. We don't eat human food. We eat human. But we came to Florida to experience new things and.

[Brandi Brown]

Ugh.

[Katie McVeigh]

Would you stop taking selfies? It's ridiculous. Vampires don't show up in pictures. Put that away and just take a bite of your dinner before it gets cold.

[Molly Bloom]

Listen, it all starts with one bite. What if I start to crave cheeseburgers and I lose my taste for blood? What if I only eat burgers and become the laughingstock of the international vampire community?

[Katie McVeigh]

Okay, freeze right there.

[Ronak]

That's is terrifying.

[Katie McVeigh]

I know the horror.

[Brandi Brown]

That kid vampire made a frightening logical fallacy.

[Katie McVeigh]

Logical fallacies are when there's a big old error in your line of thought. This can make it easier for the other side to poke holes in your argument.

[Brandi Brown]

That's right.

[Katie McVeigh]

In this case, the son used a slippery slope fallacy. Ugh. Gives me chills just thinking about it. A slippery slope is when you say that one action like eating a cheeseburger will start a chain of events that lead to a big outcome, but one that's often not likely to happen in the first place. Let's hear it again.

[Molly Bloom]

What if I start to crave cheeseburgers and I lose my taste for blood? What if I only eat burgers and become the laughingstock of the international vampire community?

[Katie McVeigh]

Ugh. It's even worse the second time sure is. Because any ace debater would know that.

[Brandi Brown]

There are lots of other possible outcomes besides becoming an international laughing stock.

[Katie McVeigh]

He's using this to try to scare his mom into giving up. But unfortunately for him, moms don't scare easy. Especially vampire moms.

[Molly Bloom]

That is not going to happen, Vlad, and you know it.

[Katie McVeigh]

I tried mine and enjoyed it and.

[Molly Bloom]

I'm still a blood lover. You have nothing to lose. Besides, I already paid for it. Fine, but can I eat the waiter after?

[Katie McVeigh]

Sure, but wait until he brings my fries first. She was not having that slippery slope. Just goes to show you, weak arguments never win. Keep that in mind and we'll catch you next time on State of Debate. Smash Boom Best.

[Molly Bloom]

This is Smash Boom Best, the show about showdowns. And we rely on our listeners for debate suggestions. For example, Liam and Malcolm from Wind Gap, Pennsylvania sent us this great debate idea.

[Katie McVeigh]

Our debate idea is pen versus Pencil.

[Molly Bloom]

We'll give them a call at the end of the show to see who they think would win. Alright, let's get back to our Smash Boom battle of the day. Invisibility versus flying. Our elusive enigma and winged wanderer are back for the micro round. This week's micro round challenge is Amusement park usa. We asked Brandi and Katie to envision the rides, the food and the fun to be had at an amusement park inspired by their side. Katie went first last time. So, Brandy, you're up. Give us a soaring tour of your flying fun zone, kids.

[Brandi Brown]

Are you tired of birds having all the fun?

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah.

[Brandi Brown]

Parents. Are you tired of parents of bird children having all the fun?

[Katie McVeigh]

Uh huh.

[Brandi Brown]

Well, you'll love Soar and Glide, the first amusement park for those who want to fly. I'm Penny Penguin. Growing up in Antarctica, I dreamt of flapping my flippers and taking to the sky. And while it's still just a dream, Soar and Glide gave me a taste of what it'd feel like When I first waddled into the park, I visited the outfitter. Like everyone else. I received a special jumpsuit with plenty of zippered pockets so I didn't lose my wallet or keys. I was ready for flight. Oh, and if you use a wheelchair or other assistive device, don't worry. There are special three wheeled chairs that allow you to take off and land from any of our attractions. So let's get to the fun stuff. Want to experience what it's like to skydive without having to find a plane or be high off the ground?

[Katie McVeigh]

Yeah.

[Brandi Brown]

Well, there's a vertical wind tunnel. Fans blow air straight up a padded column, so you can just float in mid air and do all sorts of cool tricks. Like this.

[Molly Bloom]

Whoa.

[Katie McVeigh]

Sweet flip, penguin.

[Brandi Brown]

Thanks. If relaxing and sightseeing is more your speed, try a blimp tour above the city. But if you want action, go to the superhero tube. It's a virtual reality flight simulator. Test out any style of flying you like. You could be soaring 60 miles per hour above the ground like a peregrine falcon.

[Katie McVeigh]

Whoa. Cool.

[Brandi Brown]

Or zipping through orbit at 17,500 miles per hour. Just like the International Space Station.

[Molly Bloom]

Epic.

[Brandi Brown]

But what about when you're hungry? Try our food court, where you can actually dive and grab your food like a bird. When I want fresh seafood, I usually dive into the sea from the land or ice. But something about diving through the air. Mm, it really does make it taste better.

[Katie McVeigh]

I swooped and caught this field mouse. Can I eat it?

[Brandi Brown]

Only if you share with your sister.

[Katie McVeigh]

Woo hoo.

[Molly Bloom]

Yay.

[Katie McVeigh]

Yay.

[Brandi Brown]

This is only a fraction of the fun you'll have at Soar N Glide, the park where flightless birds and people get to be above it all.

[Molly Bloom]

Soar and glide. Making your flying dreams come true. Ronak. Sound like a place you'd want to visit?

[Ronak]

Yeah. It's making all my childhood memories of pretending to be a superhero fly back to me.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, man. Let's go. All right, Katie, let's hear your vision for an amusement park where invisibility reigns.

[Katie McVeigh]

Ah. Step right up. Step right up to Invisibility Park. Oh, you can't see it. Let me turn invisible for a second. Ah, there we go. Come see our fantastic rides like Invisible Brother. The ride where you turn invisible and play pranks on your brother. The best fun you can have without getting grounded. And over here, we have invisible ice cream. Try not to drip it on your shirt. It'll be hot since you can't see it at all. And over here, we have the memory card where you're taking on a ride of your own memories. But get to turn invisible during the embarrassing ones. Tripped in front of your entire classroom. Not any longer. No one can see you. You're invisible now, boy. Oh, be careful. Every ride and rider is invisible, so it's likely you may trip over one or two or ten. And over here is our ride called Escape the Paparazzi. Your most overbearing relative is chasing you with a camera. You must turn invisible to escape so that your bad holiday sweater isn't committed to film. Invisibility Park. All the fun you could have with a morally ambiguous superpower.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, Invisibility park sounds like a great place for introverts. So, Ronak, what do you think? Would you like to visit Invisibility Park?

[Ronak]

Yeah, that sounds like a. Like a mind bending interesting experience for sure.

[Molly Bloom]

All right. Well, Ronak, it's time to award a point for this micro round.

[Ronak]

Two incredibly fun sounding amusement parks.

[Molly Bloom]

Have you marked down your point? I have. Excellent. Now it's time for sneak attack. Brandi and Katie have no idea what the sneak attack is going to be. Are you ready to improvise today?

[Brandi Brown]

Yep.

[Katie McVeigh]

Uh huh. Is that too deep? Yes, I am.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah. Excellent. Well, today's sneak attack challenge is a haiku for you. A haiku is a traditional Japanese poem that is 17 syllables long. For those of you that need a reminder, syllables are the number of beats in a word. So, for example, apple has two syllables, a pull. And onomatopoeia. Onomatopoeia has six Haikus have three lines with five syllables in the first line, seven in the second, and five in the third. And. And the lines don't usually rhyme. Here's an example. Smash. Boom. Best is rad. Judge creative debating and learn some new things. Katie and Brandi, please take a moment to write a haiku about how great your side is and another one about how terrible the other side is.

[Brandi Brown]

Invisibility. So many syllables you can't see.

[Molly Bloom]

Good for sneaking.

[Katie McVeigh]

Getting what you want.

[Molly Bloom]

Flying fast and super high. Birds and planes up in the sky.

[Brandi Brown]

Flying dreams are best.

[Ronak]

Don't you agree?

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Katie, you're up first. Let's hear your haikus.

[Katie McVeigh]

Okay, here's my pro Invisibility haiku. Fade yourself away. Invisibility. Okay. Nada.

[Molly Bloom]

Zippo.

[Katie McVeigh]

Zilch. Ooh. And here's my anti flying haiku. Soaring high. Flashy. You will be hit in the face by a gross bird. Ouch.

[Brandi Brown]

Excellent work, Katie.

[Molly Bloom]

Brandon, thank you. It is your turn.

[Brandi Brown]

Explore far and wide. The limit, the universe. Fly fast super power.

[Molly Bloom]

Very nice, Very nice.

[Brandi Brown]

And this is my anti invisibility 1. Can't see Katie now. It is not that cool amusement park sad.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Ronak, you've heard the haiku heat brought by our two debaters. It's time to award a point.

[Ronak]

I think I got it.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. This showdown is almost over, but we still have one more round left.

[Ronak]

The final six.

[Molly Bloom]

Brandi and Katie, you each have six final words to persuade Ronak that your side is the smash Boom. Best. Brandi, you're up.

[Brandi Brown]

Flying many ways to be cooler.

[Molly Bloom]

Succinct, to the point. Katie, your turn.

[Katie McVeigh]

Invisibility, the thinking man's superpower.

[Molly Bloom]

Ooh, that one's a thinker. All right, Ronak, it is time to award your final point.

[Ronak]

Yeah, I feel like these could both just be campaign slugs. Yeah, expect to see it on, like a bumper sticker soon.

[Molly Bloom]

Have you decided who the winner is?

[Ronak]

Indeed I have.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, so it's time to tally up those points. The moment we've all been waiting for. Ronak, please tell us who won this epic debate battle.

[Ronak]

So the winner was Katie with invisibility.

[Katie McVeigh]

A shocking upset. The studio goes wild. She's losing her mind. She beat Brandi. She beat Brandi Brown.

[Brandi Brown]

Oh, my God. Can I get a score of each round, please?

[Katie McVeigh]

Oh, yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

So Ronak, can you tell us what were the deciding factors?

[Ronak]

So, yeah, the deciding factors for me were kind of along the lines of the fact that invisibility was something that we don't have readily. And it's kinda mysterious in a way. And I'm definitely attracted by that. And God, I love the bumper sticker. Invisibility, the thinking man superpower. That's good. That's good.

[Katie McVeigh]

I loved hearing about Bessie Coleman.

[Brandi Brown]

Yeah, that was a fun story to find. I did not know about it. And they still black pilots do a flyover of her grave in Chicago every year, I think in November.

[Katie McVeigh]

Oh, that's really cool.

[Brandi Brown]

I mean, I'm sick of looking at oranges too. So pretty excited for this.

[Katie McVeigh]

We'll go up to the University of Rochester.

[Brandi Brown]

Pretty excited.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, Ronak thinks invisibility won, but what do you think? We want to know. Head to smashboom.org and vote. You'll see what other listeners think and whether they agree with Ronak's decision.

[Ronak]

I'm confident in my decision, but I'd be really curious to know what other people think.

[Molly Bloom]

That's it for this debate. Smashboom Best is a creation of the people at Brainson and American Public Media.

[Katie McVeigh]

It's produced by Mark Sanchez, Sandon Totten, Molly Bloom, Alyssa Dudley, and Rosie Dupont.

[Brandi Brown]

We had engineering help from Veronica Rodriguez, Donald Paz, and Dave Drexler.

[Katie McVeigh]

And we have production help from Manica Wilhelm, Christina Lopez, and Lauren D. Brenna.

[Molly Bloom]

Everson is the voice of our hold music and our announcer is Marley Feuer, worker Otto. We want to give a special thanks to Justin Koo, Taylor Kaufman, Austin Cross, Sam Chu, Noah Gregory, Eric Ringham, Anna Weggle, Jeffrey Besoy, Ayanna Esters, and Peter Eklund. Brandi, is there anyone you want to thank today?

[Brandi Brown]

Yes, I'd like to thank my mom, Alice Brown, and my cat, Claudette, Cookie Lyon.

[Molly Bloom]

And what about you, Katie?

[Katie McVeigh]

I would like to thank my boyfriend, Matt Shimkowicz, who got shout to out my dog, Seth Shimkowitz, and the New Yorker writer Kathryn Schultz, who wrote a great article on invisibility.

[Molly Bloom]

And how about you, Ronak? Any special shout outs?

[Ronak]

Yeah. I'd like to thank the Regeneron Science Talent Search, the awesome program that I was able to find out about this really cool podcast.

[Molly Bloom]

Awesome. And before we go, let's call up Liam and Malcolm. They're the listeners who suggested the pen versus pencil debate.

[Katie McVeigh]

I think pen would win because you don't have to sharpen it and it's easier to see.

[Ronak]

I think pencil would win because it's.

[Katie McVeigh]

Erasable and you don't have to worry.

[Molly Bloom]

About running out of ink Brothers on either side of the debate. Who do you think would win? If you have an idea for an epic debate battle, head to smashboom.org and tell us all about it. That's it for this episode of smashboom. Best. We'll be back soon with another debate battle.

[Brandi Brown]

Peace out.

[Molly Bloom]

See you later.

[Katie McVeigh]

See you next time. If invisible.

[Brandi Brown]

Better than the rest.

[Katie McVeigh]

I mean, I think a lot of people listening at home will say, was she even there? But then they'll discover when I win. I was. I was there the whole time. Ooh.

[Brandi Brown]

I too, will be haunted by this episode.