Lava vs Quicksand

Summary

Smash Boom Best: Lava vs Quicksand (June 27, 2018)

Podcast: Smash Boom Best (from Brains On Universe)
Host: Molly Bloom
Judge: Kate Wexler
Debaters: Tom Weber (Team Lava), Jed Kim (Team Quicksand)

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Episode Overview

In this spirited and hilarious debate, two epic natural forces—lava and quicksand—face off in a battle for ultimate fascination. Debaters Tom Weber and Jed Kim bring science, stories, and humor to their cases, while judge Kate Wexler decides which phenomenon is most compelling. The episode introduces both geological marvels, explores their dangers and quirks, and closes with a deliciously creative tiebreaker.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introductions & Debate Setup

• Host Molly Bloom introduces the format: two debaters, four rounds (Declaration of Greatness, Micro Round, Sneak Attack, Final Six), and judge Kate must choose the most fascinating.
• Audience Opinions are solicited upfront, with kids sharing why they think lava or quicksand is cooler.

2. Declaration of Greatness

a) Team Lava (Tom Weber)

• Lava is Earth’s “barf”: “I think of it as Earth barfing. Ew. Yeah. And unlike when you or your pet upchucks, this barfing is lethal.” (04:12)
• Creation & Destruction: Lava forms islands, makes soil richer, and can devastate landscapes.
• Intense Heat: “Lava can be 10 times [hotter than boiling water], 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit.” (05:27)
• Mesmerizing Beauty: “Look up a video of lava flowing. It's mesmerizing.” (08:08)
• Pop Culture Impact: The classic “floor is lava” game brings people together—a cultural touchstone.
• Notable Moment: Volcanologist Jess Phoenix recounts dropping her favorite knife into lava:

  “But the immense heat stopped me. So I had to watch as the lava completely ate my poor pocket knife. Because when you drop your knife into a river of lava, you just have to let it go.” (05:39)

b) Team Quicksand (Jed Kim)

• Adventure & Suspense: Sets a jungle adventure scene with quicksand as the surprise twist.
• Fun with Physics:
  • Quicksand’s thixotropic properties explained: “It’s a gel that turns runny when shaken.” (11:54)
  • You’re more likely to float than be sucked under: “Most people just sink up to their waists.” (11:47)
• DIY Appeal: “You can make it in your backyard.” (12:07)
• Real-World Story: Equestrian Susie Rowley’s horses get trapped in quicksand, leading to a rescue and a suspenseful true tale.

  “He fell about five different times into the quicksand.” (13:38)

• Pop Culture Fun: Movies in the 1960s loved quicksand; David Bowie wrote a song about it.
• Practical Argument: Unlike lava, which requires traveling to Hawaii, quicksand is accessible—find it by rivers or even make it yourself.

3. Counter-Arguments and Banter

• Quips and Comebacks:
  • Jed destroys lava in 30 seconds, calling it “a hot mess” and criticizing its destructive tendencies. (09:32)
  • Tom points out lava created the ground we walk on. (15:01)
  • The “quicksilver” vs. “lava” household play debate: “We played quicksand at my house.” (09:07)

4. Micro Round: Speed Facts (Breathless Trivia Showdown!)

• Quicksand’s Fun Facts (Jed, 18:35–19:16):
  • Can be made of clay or peat, happens worldwide.
  • Twice as dense as the human body—makes you float.
  • Lifting your foot from quicksand = lifting a medium car.
  • Lost popularity since the 1960s, but once a movie staple.
• Lava’s Cosmic Reach (Tom, 19:45–20:08):
  • Exists beyond Earth: Jupiter’s moon Io spews lava all day; Kepler 78b, the “hell planet,” may be entirely covered in lava.

5. Sneak Attack: Cheer Off!

• Team Lava’s Cheer (Tom, 22:15):

  “Hey, it's lava. Lava, Lava. Hey, it's lava. Lava, Lava. Lava is an awe inspiring natural phenomenon that is the basis for life on earth. How could it possibly lose lava?”

• Team Quicksand’s Cheer (Jed, 22:45):

  “Give me an L. Gimme an A. Give me a V. Give me a—No. Quicksand, Quicksand. It's the best. It'll sink you to your chest but you won't die.”

• Both cheers earn laughter and applause.

6. Final Six (Words)

• Quicksand: "Stuck in sick land. It's quicksand." (23:55)
• Lava: "Humans would not exist without lava." (24:09)

7. Tiebreaker: Signature Dish Design

• It’s a tie! Decision comes down to a creative food contest:
  • Lava Lucy (Tom):
    • Inspired by Minnesota’s Juicy Lucy burger; molten cheese is the ‘lava’ inside the 'earth’ burger.
    • “The Lava Lucy. I got it.” (26:55)
  • Quick Chocolate Thunder (Jed):
    • Chocolate pudding with truffles (representing quicksand's hidden dangers); cookie statue of Tom sinking in.
    • “Quick Chocolate Thunder.” (27:46)
• Judge Kate picks... Quicksand’s dessert!
  • “I have a new perspective on quicksand now. I do like the name for the burger a lot. … The one that pops in my head first is quicksand.” (28:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tom Weber:

  “I think of it as Earth barfing. Ew. Yeah. And unlike when you or your pet upchucks, this barfing is lethal.” (04:12)

• Jess Phoenix (Volcanologist):

  “When you drop your knife into a river of lava, you just have to let it go.” (05:39)

• Jed Kim:

  “Man, quicksand is awesome. First of all, it’s got a super rad name. Quicksand. It just sounds like action, adventure, quicksand.” (10:20) “Give me an L. Gimme an A. Give me a V. Give me a—No. Quicksand, Quicksand. It’s the best. It'll sink you to your chest but you won’t die.” (22:45)

• Kate Wexler:

  “I have a new perspective on quicksand now. ... I haven’t really learned about it.” (28:31)

• Tom Weber:

  “Juicy Lucy. You put the bun on. That is the earth. That’s the earth right there. The hot, gooey cheese in the middle of the hamburger. That’s the lava.” (25:50)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & Setup: 00:00–03:52
• Lava’s Declaration of Greatness: 04:07–08:37
• Quicksand’s Declaration of Greatness: 10:20–14:35
• Micro Round (Speed Facts): 18:35–20:08
• Sneak Attack (Cheer): 22:15–22:59
• Final Six Words: 23:55–24:16
• Tiebreaker: Signature Dish: 25:44–27:51
• Final Judgment & Discussion: 28:05–29:08

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Flow & Personalities

• Energetic, playful, and smart: Molly keeps the pace zippy. Tom and Jed riff off each other, blending science with comedy and making a strong case for their respective “teams.”
• Judge Kate brings a mix of curiosity and humor, shifting her opinion as she learns more, demonstrating how debate can broaden horizons.

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Conclusion

Despite lava’s cosmic, catastrophic flair and quicksand’s sneaky suspense, the debate ends in a dramatic tie, broken only by a pun-filled, dessert vs. burger “signature dish” round. Judge Kate crowns Quicksand the winner, saying she gained a deeper appreciation for how fascinating it is.

Final Takeaway:
Quicksand proves that even the sneakiest, most misunderstood phenomena can steal the spotlight with a good story and clever advocacy. But lava’s legacy—planet-building and burger-inspiring—remains cherished.

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For More

• Vote or Submit a Debate Idea: smashboom.org
• Recommended for: Kids, families, teachers—anyone who loves science and laughter.

Transcript

[Jed Kim]

Stop and think for a moment. What is lava? It's hot rocks.

[Tom Weber]

Yes, it's molten rocks. Molten goo. I love the word goo.

[Jed Kim]

Quicksand is like stacked particles that shouldn't exist the way they do. It's magic.

[Molly Bloom]

From the brains behind brains on.

[Jed Kim]

It's Smash Boom Best, the show for.

[Kate Wexler]

People with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best. In today's matchup, two fearsome natural phenomena are going head to head. It's quicksand versus lava.

[Listener/Caller]

Lava is cooler because it produces good soil for plants. I think lava is like cool, like fire, but more liquidy and it like goes down the volcano. One reason why quicksand is better than lava is because it's more interesting. It makes you sink faster. I don't know how that happens. And I like, I love it because it has lots of different cool colors. It's like bright and glowy and super, super, really super hot.

[Molly Bloom]

Which one will be crowned the Smash Boom Best fast acting liquefied soil or hot bubbling molten rock? Our judge today will decide which of the two is the most fascinating phenomenon. She's here from St. Paul to preside over this debate. Welcome to the show. Kate Wexler. Hello. What comes to mind when you think of quicksand?

[Kate Wexler]

I kind of think of that kind of cheesy movie when sometimes it's the dumb character just falls in and they're just flailing their arms and they just sink.

[Molly Bloom]

And what about lava? What comes to mind?

[Kate Wexler]

Well, I think volcanoes kind of destruction. It's beautiful, just kind of. I've seen pictures on the Internet just like of rivers of lava and stuff.

[Molly Bloom]

It is beautiful. Before we get started, I want to hear more about your debate experience. So do you ever get into debates with your family or friends?

[Kate Wexler]

Oh, yeah, definitely. Just about stupidest stuff sometimes, but we just keep going.

[Molly Bloom]

So what is your debate tactics when you find yourself in that kind of situation?

[Kate Wexler]

I kind of reason, kind of try to find the most flaws in their logic.

[Molly Bloom]

So you try to poke holes in the other person's argument?

[Kate Wexler]

Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, let's meet our debaters. Here to share a love of lava with its fiery hot molten flows is Tom Weber.

[Tom Weber]

I am very excited to be here. This is gonna be great. I can't wait.

[Molly Bloom]

And on the other side we have the tricky, shifty, always where you least expect it. Team Quicksand, represented by Jed Kim.

[Jed Kim]

Yeah, yeah, Quicksand.

[Molly Bloom]

Alright. Well, we are Hitting the ground running. But before we kick off this debate, let me set the ground rules. Team Quicksand and Team Lava will have four chances to rep for their side. Our first debate round is declaration of greatness, when both debaters present all the coolest facts, figures and stories they could find to persuade us. Round two is the micro round. It's a different challenge every week, and we've given both teams time to prepare. Next is the sneak attack, a challenge that's always a complete surprise. And the last round is the final six, when our debaters have just six more words to sway the judge. At the end of each round, we'll let Kate and all of our listeners at home mull it over before awarding a point. Once we've made it through the rounds, we'll tally up the points and declare just one of our contenders, the Smash Boom Best. All right, Kate, are you ready to be persuaded?

[Kate Wexler]

I'm so ready for this.

[Molly Bloom]

And how about you, debaters? Are you ready?

[Tom Weber]

I am ready.

[Jed Kim]

I'm kind of ready.

[Tom Weber]

I'm hot and bothered. See what I did there with lava? I'm ready to go.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, it's time for our first round declaration of greatness. Both teams are going to take us on a deep dive in their opening arguments for their side. We flipped a coin. And Tom, you're up first in the.

[Tom Weber]

Contest between lava and quicksand. I'd lava to think lava wins every time. Even if there were some poor patch of quicksand out there next to a volcano and then the volcano burst, the lava would destroy that patch of quicksand. Lava all the way. So what is lava? I think of it as Earth barfing. Ew. Yeah. And unlike when you or your pet upchucks, this barfing is lethal. The Earth is basically a huge ball filled with burning hot liquid rock. There's a thin, solid layer on top called the crust. We live on that crust and it protects us from that moisture. Molten goo. Thanks, crust. You're welcome, Tom. Now, that crust is made up of pieces or plates that sit next to or on top of each other. And sometimes there are spaces between those plates or cracks in the crust. When that happens, Earth's fiery insides sneak up and you get lava. That molten rock. Molten rock oozing from the belly of the Earth and spitting out. And watch out. That lava is so hot, it's usually glowing. And because it's upwards of 2,000 degrees hot. Have you ever been boiling water and a little bit splashes up and scalds you and it's super hot. The water that just splashed you is a little more than 200 degrees Fahrenheit hot.

[Jed Kim]

Ouch.

[Tom Weber]

But lava can be 10 times that, 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. Just listen to Jess Phoenix, a volcano scientist, tell this story about that time lava robbed her.

[Jess Phoenix]

One time, I was walking through a forest in Hawaii that was being burned by a river of lava. I was crawling through the underbrush and dodging trees when my favorite pocket knife fell out of my pocket and right into the 2000 degree Fahrenheit river of molten lava. My first instinct was to reach down and try to grab the pocket knife back. But the immense heat stopped me. So I had to watch as the lava completely ate my poor pocket knife. Because when you drop your knife into a river of lava, you just have to let it go. Nothing's bringing it back.

[Tom Weber]

Lava can do whatever it wants, and it can do a lot more than steal your stuff. Some people think lava might have killed the dinosaurs. That's one of the theories, at least. A huge series of volcanoes spewed off so much toxic gas that some dinos couldn't breathe and died. But more importantly, the climate of the entire Earth changed so much, the dinos couldn't survive.

[Listener/Caller]

We're dead.

[Tom Weber]

We've also, sadly, seen some of this destruction play out this year in Hawaii on the Big Island. A volcano there has been erupting since 1983 with no days off. And earthquakes earlier this year caused the lava to change course. Lava started coming up in cracks on roads, homes were destroyed and and people were evacuated. Lava is an extraordinary natural event to watch from a distance. And while all that destruction is awful, there is another side to lava. It doesn't just destroy, it creates. When it bursts through from deep inside the earth, it can make the foundation for new islands. That volcano in Hawaii that's been erupting since 1983 has spent several years just spewing lava into the ocean. And when that lava cools, it makes the island just a little bit bigger. And maybe you've heard of how big forest fires can reinvigorate ecosystems in a forest with regrowth. The same is true with lava. When lava goes through and destroys stuff, ferns and small plants start popping up within a few years. Lava also wins because it's absolutely beautiful. Look up a video of lava flowing. It's mesmerizing. But the final reason, the final reason lava wins is because of you. All of you listening. How many of you have played the lava game? You're on the couch in the living Room. The cushions are all over there and you have to jump to the cushion. And the floor is lava. And if you don't jump on the cushion, you fall in the lava. No, I've never heard of that game played with quicksand. Lava brings people together.

[Molly Bloom]

Lava.

[Tom Weber]

Respect it and love it.

[Molly Bloom]

Powerful stuff from Team Lava. Kate, what do you think? Any fact or argument grab you?

[Kate Wexler]

It reminded me of how islands were created. I knew that before, but I just forgot about that.

[Molly Bloom]

You liked hearing how lava can create in addition to being able to destroy. And, Tom, I really hate to break it to you, but when we used to play that game at my house.

[Tom Weber]

Yeah?

[Molly Bloom]

It was quicksilver. What?

[Hold Music / Background Voice]

No, no, no.

[Jed Kim]

It was lava.

[Tom Weber]

Come on.

[Jed Kim]

That's a no.

[Molly Bloom]

It's true.

[Kate Wexler]

But there is two very goods.

[Molly Bloom]

We played quicksand at my house.

[Kate Wexler]

Quicksand and lava.

[Molly Bloom]

I mean, they both exist, so I played lava. They're both fun.

[Tom Weber]

Oh, man.

[Jed Kim]

That's why you're gonna lose.

[Molly Bloom]

What? No. So, Jed, we always give both teams a chance to respond. So, Jed, that means you have 30 seconds to throw some cold water on Team Lava. And I will cut you off when we get to 30 seconds.

[Jed Kim]

Oh, boy.

[Molly Bloom]

So, I mean, I don't even think.

[Jed Kim]

I'll need 30 seconds to destroy lava.

[Molly Bloom]

So we're starting right now.

[Jed Kim]

The words you used in talking about lava have things like crust, goo spewing. Not the best way you want to paint your beloved liquid lava. You talk about the beauty of it being super hot. I think it's a hot mess. And finally, you're talking about it killed the dinosaurs as a good thing. It killed the dinosaurs.

[Molly Bloom]

We could have Titus aim. Tom, do you have any words you want to share with Jed?

[Tom Weber]

Jed, if the dinosaurs hadn't died, you and I wouldn't be here.

[Jed Kim]

I could have a dinosaur. Kate, you could have a dinosaur.

[Kate Wexler]

That could be really cool.

[Tom Weber]

You could be a dinosaur.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. Well, now, Jed, it is time for your declaration of greatness. So let's hear it.

[Jed Kim]

You're three days deep in the jungle, hunting for treasure. Danger lurks all around, but you're prepared. Extra strength tiger repellent. Check. Snake bite kit. Check. What about swampy toe rot? You look down to check your boots and you get a sinking feeling. Literally a sinking feeling. You're in quicksand. It's already up to your knees and struggling just sinks you further into the muck. Dump the gold, lose the tools. They're just weighing you down. It's up to your chest. Your one shot is to snag the fine above. You got it. But as you pull, it snaps, and the last thing the jungle sees is your hat slowly sinking below the group. Man, quicksand is awesome. First of all, it's got a super rad name. Quicksand. It just sounds like action, adventure, quicksand. Lava, on the other hand, sounds like a mountain throwing up lava. What makes quicksand look like a solid foothold, but actually a boggy reality. It's the way the sand stacks up that allows for maybe twice as much water or air as normal. In between the grains, it's barely stable. And then if you disturb it, the suspension collapses. All the particles pack tighter together, and that's how you get stuck. The good news is you probably won't get sucked under if you get trapped in quicksand. Most people just sink up to their waists. If you do get trapped, you should try to move as much as possible. And quicksand is thixotropic.

[Listener/Caller]

Thixo what?

[Jed Kim]

Thixotropic. Basically, it's a gel that turns runny when shaken. Moving your legs will be tough at first, but stirring the muck will introduce water back into the mix, making it easier to escape.

[Molly Bloom]

Hooray.

[Jed Kim]

Another thing that's awesome about quicksand is you can make it in your backyard. First, dig a hole or just use a bucket like I did.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay.

[Jed Kim]

Fill it about halfway with water, add.

[Hold Music / Background Voice]

Some sand.

[Jed Kim]

Cover it with a thin layer of sand and leaves to make it look solid, and voila.

[Tom Weber]

Quicksand.

[Jed Kim]

Now you can trap burglars or wolves. Guess what would happen if you made lava in your backyard? Well, you'd probably get on the news, Jed.

[Molly Bloom]

I'm standing in the charred remains of a neighborhood that burned to the ground after a kid made lava in his backyard.

[Jed Kim]

Tamara, was the kid bonkers?

[Molly Bloom]

Definitely. Jed. Why else would he try to make lava?

[Jed Kim]

If you want to see lava, you are very limited in your options in the US You've basically got to go to Hawaii. Quicksand is far more common. It happens near rivers, creeks, lakes. Suzy Rowley lives in Harupa Valley in Southern California. A couple years ago, she was out for a horse ride with her daughter and a friend.

[Susie Rowley]

We got into an area that we weren't familiar with, and we couldn't find main trails. We were in heavy, heavy brush.

[Jed Kim]

They took a wrong turn, and all.

[Susie Rowley]

Of a sudden, all three of our horses started sinking. Immediately, I'm screaming, everybody jump off. Because the horses are better off without your weight on there.

[Jed Kim]

They struggled to find solid footing, but they Couldn't tell which spots were safe.

[Susie Rowley]

He fell about five different times into the quicksand.

[Jed Kim]

Susie's been around quicksand before, so she wasn't worried about herself.

[Susie Rowley]

But horses can get exhausted and then quit fighting.

[Jed Kim]

We finally got to an island of solid ground and called 911.

[Susie Rowley]

Our horses still sunk a little bit, but they were able to get out. And then we were rescued, basically because of quicksand.

[Jed Kim]

Susie has an amazing suspenseful story. Now let's hear that exact same story, but this time it's lava instead of quicksand. Alright. None of them would be alive today if it were lava. Ladies and gentlemen, the choice is clear. Do you want something that is a veritable magic trick of physics? Something that you can both play with and use to trap enemies, Something that will let you too, have a harrowing story? Let me hear you say it.

[Tom Weber]

Quicksand.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, I think it's going to take a minute for all of that to sink in. Kate.

[Tom Weber]

Wait a minute. Hold on.

[Molly Bloom]

I'm sorry. That was a groaner. Kate, what did you think of Team Quicksand's declaration of greatness?

[Kate Wexler]

I thought it was really cool. I didn't think that you could make it.

[Jed Kim]

That's right.

[Molly Bloom]

Are you gonna try?

[Kate Wexler]

Yeah. I mean, that'd be pretty cool.

[Molly Bloom]

Team Lava, it is time for your comeback. You have 30 seconds and your time starts now.

[Tom Weber]

You are dodging the issue, Senator. You say that you can make quicksand. Fine. The whole reason we're here is because lava made the ground we're on. It's flipping the narrative here. You can make quicksand or lava can make your earth. You pick, you decide. Cause you know what? If we didn't have a crust that was made by lava that cooled, we would all be dead. Lava helps create. Didn't you hear my thing earlier about it creating and destructing? And also, by the way, lava. Awesome word.

[Jed Kim]

Lava.

[Tom Weber]

Lava.

[Molly Bloom]

Lava.

[Tom Weber]

Lava.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, man, this is going to be a hard decision, Kate.

[Susie Rowley]

This is.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, that is it for this first round of this debate battle, which means it's time, Kate, for you to decide who gets the first point. Which of these substances is more fascinating?

[Jed Kim]

Oh, man, it is.

[Molly Bloom]

So don't say it out loud, Jacob. Wow, these guys are really trying to persuade you. Don't say it out loud, but take a minute to think it over and then mark down on your score sheet. Listeners at home, you too, feel free to pause for a minute to talk it over. Okay. Kate, did you decide? Oh, it's a tough one.

[Kate Wexler]

I know this is really tough.

[Molly Bloom]

So which is more fascinating?

[Jed Kim]

It's spelled J, E, D.

[Kate Wexler]

All right.

[Molly Bloom]

She has marked a point.

[Tom Weber]

She's ready.

[Kate Wexler]

Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, we're going to give our debaters a halftime break. And did you know that your debate idea could end up on the show? Just head to smashboom.org to submit. That's what Mark and Philip from Fenton, Missouri did.

[Listener/Caller]

Our debate idea is dinosaurs versus penguins.

[Molly Bloom]

So what'll it be? Dinosaurs or penguins? Stay tuned at the end of the show to hear what Mark and Philip think.

[Kate Wexler]

And we have a favor to ask.

[Molly Bloom]

Yes, we are a brand new show and we need your help to grow.

[Kate Wexler]

So name drop us whenever you get a chance.

[Molly Bloom]

Like the next time you're accepting a major award.

[Kate Wexler]

I'd like to thank the academy, my parents, my cats, my dogs, and my sister. And of course, Smash Boom Best, the coolest debate show around.

[Molly Bloom]

Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best. Boom. Smash. Smash. You're listening to smashboom Best, the show about showdowns. Today we're pitting two of mother nature's most fascinating phenomena against each other.

[Kate Wexler]

It's lava versus quicksand.

[Molly Bloom]

Both are pretty incredible if you ask me. But it's Kate's opinion that matters most today. She's already heard one round of spirited debate. And now we're going to move on to round two. Micro round. It's the micro round. We sent this challenge to our debaters in advance, so they've had ample time to prepare. Their challenge today is speed facts. Both teams are going to rattle off as many facts as they can in just one breath. Jed and Tom, are you ready?

[Tom Weber]

I am.

[Molly Bloom]

So I don't need to time you because it just depends on your lung capacity. So have you guys been training for this, trying to increase your lung capacity?

[Tom Weber]

Well, I've been eating more.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent.

[Jed Kim]

I'm an Olympic swimmer. Oh, well, tremendous lung capacity.

[Tom Weber]

Tremendous.

[Kate Wexler]

Yeah, that does help.

[Jed Kim]

Filled with fat.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, well, Tom went first last time, so Jed, we're going to start with you. So ready, inhale and go.

[Jed Kim]

Quicksand is also called jelly sand by some people. It's thixotropic, which means it's a solid when it settles but runny when mixed. Ketchup and yogurt are also thixotropic. Yum. Quicksand can look wet or dry, and it can happen in both water or dry sand. It can also be made of clay or peat. It can happen all over the world, usually by rivers. And you can make it in your backyard.

[Molly Bloom]

Trapped.

[Jed Kim]

You'll sink up to your waist or armpits, but probably not more. It's twice as dense as a human body, so you'll float in it, but it's super strong. Lifting your foot out of quicksand would take 100,000 Newtons, the same strength needed to lift a medium sized car. It's deadly if you get trapped in it and you're in an area where the tide will come back in. Quicksand used to be a lot more popular in the 1960s. One out of every 35 movies had quicksand. Some people are really into the idea of getting trapped in quicksand. I am not one of those people. Legendary rock star David Bowie wrote a song called Quicksand. It was weird.

[Tom Weber]

Wow.

[Kate Wexler]

That was very impressive.

[Tom Weber]

I am not gonna go.

[Molly Bloom]

My lungs hurt just watching you do that.

[Jed Kim]

I can't see.

[Tom Weber]

Wow. Dedicated to quicksand.

[Molly Bloom]

That was amazing. Wow.

[Kate Wexler]

I like that dedication.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow. Okay.

[Jed Kim]

I did that just for you.

[Molly Bloom]

Kay. It is your turn to breathe deep and talk fast. On your mark, inhale and go.

[Tom Weber]

Lava is not just an earthly thing. One of Jupiter's moons, IO, spews lava all day. That's all it does. There's also a planet really, really, really, really far away called Kepler 78b that astronomers call the hell planet because they think it's entirely covered in lava.

[Kate Wexler]

Oh, no.

[Tom Weber]

See, but at least I got intergalactic.

[Molly Bloom]

Yes, you did, because, you know, where.

[Tom Weber]

Are you going to find quicksand on IO. You're not. It's just not going to happen.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, I am feeling very out of breath after all of that. But Kate and listeners, it's time to think it over. Who did the best in this round and it does not necessarily need to be the person who listed the most fast.

[Tom Weber]

Yeah, that's true, that's true. I agree.

[Molly Bloom]

Maybe you care more about who had the more interesting ones the longest breath. It's totally up to you. Style, substance, they both matter. So, Kate, did you decide who gets the point for this round?

[Kate Wexler]

I have.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, mark it down.

[Tom Weber]

The whole planet's lava.

[Molly Bloom]

I'm just saying, listeners, you too, mark your point. How are you feeling, debaters? Confident as ever.

[Jed Kim]

Oh, man, I feel so good.

[Molly Bloom]

Like cool, silky smooth. Like what's in A little light headed, Perhaps.

[Tom Weber]

A little bit, a little, little doozy.

[Molly Bloom]

Wait, did you see that? What? Lurking in the bushes just ahead. It's the sneak attack round. Sneak attack. Today's surprise challenge is Cheer up. We want both sides to write a cheer about why Their team is awesome. Spelling and clapping are welcome, as are high kicks, but our podcast audience won't be able to see those. Jed and Tom will give you a minute to brainstorm. Write your cheers while we play some lovely hold music.

[Hold Music / Background Voice]

Quicksand. Lava Quicksand. Lava quicksand. Ooh, that's quick. Lava Quicksand. Lava Quicksand. Lava. Ooh, that's hot.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, guys, are you ready with your cheers?

[Jed Kim]

I had to get my pom poms.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, so let's do this. Jed went first last time, so it is now Tom's turn to cheer us up with a stunning lava cheer.

[Tom Weber]

You ready?

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, I'm ready. All right.

[Tom Weber]

Hey, it's lava. Lava, Lava. Hey, it's lava. Lava, Lava. Lava is an awe inspiring natural phenomenon that is the basis for life on earth. How could it possibly lose lava?

[Molly Bloom]

Very good work, Tom.

[Jed Kim]

That was a really nice backflip you.

[Tom Weber]

Just did right here in the studio.

[Molly Bloom]

Impressive. Okay, Jed, time for your cheer.

[Jed Kim]

Give me an L. Gimme an A. Give me a V. Give me a. No. Quicksand, Quicksand. It's the best. It'll sink you to your chest but you won't die.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow. Wow, these are both really good cheers. Kate, I don't know how you're going to decide, but it's time to mark down a point.

[Tom Weber]

But you have to.

[Molly Bloom]

You have to choose which of these cheers was most impressive in whichever way, shape or form you want to decide that. Whatever criteria you want to use. Listeners, you two mark a point.

[Jed Kim]

You're looking a little nervous there, Tom.

[Tom Weber]

No, I felt like I had a good comeback after my little breath issue in the second round. I feel like my cheer brought back the game, so I'm. I'm feeling good.

[Molly Bloom]

Team socks.

[Kate Wexler]

I made my decision.

[Molly Bloom]

You made a decision. All right. Tensions are high and we have just one more round before this debate is settled. It's the final six. The final six. Jed and Tom, you both have six more words to persuade Kate that your side is the most interesting. Jed, you're up first.

[Jed Kim]

Stuck in sick land. It's quicksand.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent.

[Tom Weber]

It was rather avant garde, I think.

[Jed Kim]

I like to rhyme.

[Molly Bloom]

Tom, your six words.

[Tom Weber]

My six word closing statement. Humans would not exist without lava.

[Jed Kim]

Can I also point out that mic drums and lava mic drops exist together?

[Tom Weber]

Not with that attitude, they can't.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh. All right, Kate, you have heard four fiery rounds of debate and now it is time to make some very big decisions. You have one last point to give out. Which side came off as most fascinating? Lava or quicksand. Did you decide?

[Kate Wexler]

I think it's a tie.

[Molly Bloom]

I mean, well, who got that last point? Lava. Oh.

[Jed Kim]

Came from behind us.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, it's a tie.

[Tom Weber]

So we have a tie.

[Kate Wexler]

You were in the lead, and then.

[Tom Weber]

Oh, my. And then you sank.

[Molly Bloom]

Sam was in the lead. Lava made it an amazing comeback, and now it's a tie.

[Kate Wexler]

Yes, it's a tie.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay. I'm so nervous. A tiebreaker prepared for just this circumstance.

[Tom Weber]

Is it arm wrestling the brave?

[Molly Bloom]

Not a feat of strength.

[Tom Weber]

It's not a feat of strength.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, everyone, it's time for our tiebreaker round. Sudden death debaters, your sudden death challenge today is design a signature dish inspired by your side. What is it and why is it the most delicious? Give you a minute to think about it.

[Kate Wexler]

I'm excited for this.

[Molly Bloom]

I want to eat it. I wish you were.

[Kate Wexler]

Like, now I'm getting hungry.

[Molly Bloom]

I know.

[Tom Weber]

All right.

[Jed Kim]

So done. It's so done.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Tom, you are first.

[Tom Weber]

Okay. My signature dish is a meal that actually already exists, but I think we prepare it for the lava inspiration. And it's a dish very well known to foodies here in Minnesota. And it is a dish called the Juicy Lucy. And if you've not known it, if you're not from Minnesota, this is a hamburger that is cooked with cheese inside. So it's not like you don't make a hamburger and then put cheese on top like a cheeseburger. You put the cheese inside. It's infused magic somehow. I don't know how, but you make a Juicy Lucy. You put the bun on. That is the earth. That's the earth right there. The hot, gooey cheese in the middle of the hamburger. That's the lava. And when you bite into the Juicy Lucy, be very careful. Cause it's hot and it kind of oozes out.

[Molly Bloom]

So instead of Juicy Lucy, is there a lava inspired name you would give it?

[Tom Weber]

The Juicy Lava.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent.

[Tom Weber]

Or the Lava Lucy? The Lava Lucy. I got it.

[Kate Wexler]

That sounds a little bit more appetizing.

[Molly Bloom]

The Lava Lucy, the juice of lava E. Okay, that sounds delicious. Yeah. Jed, what is your dish?

[Jed Kim]

My dish, Kate, is a dessert that is based on the thixotropic properties of quicksand. It is a chocolate pudding into which has been sunk delectable truffles. It's garnished with a miniature cookie statue of Tom, looking so sad as he sinks into the glorious superiority of quicksand.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, wow. Another delicious dish. Kate, you're gonna have to decide who gets the point for this final round. And Wins the debate. Oh, yeah. Does your dish have a name?

[Tom Weber]

Stupid pudding.

[Jed Kim]

Quick Chocolate Thunder.

[Molly Bloom]

Ooh. Quick Chocolate Thunder.

[Jed Kim]

I don't know.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, so we have Lava Lucy and Quick Chocolate Thunder From Down Under. So which of these two dishes would you choose?

[Kate Wexler]

This is so hard.

[Molly Bloom]

I know. You just gotta pick. Go with your gut. Close your eyes. What pops into your head.

[Tom Weber]

It's like picking a college.

[Jed Kim]

That's easy compared to this.

[Kate Wexler]

I mean, I have a new perspective on quicksand now. I do like the name for the burger a lot.

[Tom Weber]

I do, too.

[Molly Bloom]

I say just close your eyes. And which one pops into your head first?

[Kate Wexler]

The one that pops in my head first is Quicksand.

[Tom Weber]

No.

[Molly Bloom]

Yes. Because you're so smart, Kate. So what sealed the deal for you? Um, was it close? I mean, obviously it was close.

[Kate Wexler]

It was very close. I guess I just learned, like, I haven't really, you know, learned about it.

[Molly Bloom]

You opened your mind up and quicksand filled it.

[Kate Wexler]

Yeah, kinda. All I knew about it was just from the movies, you know, kind of. Oh, no, I'm trapped.

[Molly Bloom]

So you didn't fully appreciate how fascinating it was before today. All right, debaters, you both fought very hard, but do you feel like you learned something today?

[Jed Kim]

I'm gonna go get a Juicy Lucy.

[Tom Weber]

A Lava Lucy.

[Jed Kim]

A Lava Lucy.

[Tom Weber]

Yeah, I'd lava to think I learned some things today.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. I think this was pretty intense because they can't even say that many nice things to each other.

[Jed Kim]

I like your shirt.

[Kate Wexler]

Thank you.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, we heard Kate's verdict today, but I am sure there are some other opinions out there. If your tally came out differently, if we missed some majorly cool facts about lava and quicksand, head to our website. You can cast your vote and send us a [e-mail] okay, debaters, would you mind helping me with the credits?

[Tom Weber]

Sure.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, I'll start. Smash Boom. Best is brought to you by Brainzon and American Public Media is produced by.

[Jed Kim]

Alyssa Dudley, Mark Sanchez. Send in Totten and Molly Bloom.

[Tom Weber]

We had engineering help today from Corey Schreppel.

[Molly Bloom]

Production help comes courtesy of Lauren D. And John Lambert. Tom and Jed. Is there anybody you guys want to thank?

[Jed Kim]

I'd like to shout out to the Thompson, Kim clan of Eloise, Elliot, Alice and Kevin, and also to Tamara Lindstrom.

[Tom Weber]

I'd like to thank Jess Phoenix, who you heard in my argument, the one who lost the pocket knife to nature because she loves her work so much. Thanks, Jess.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. Is there anyone you want to thank, Kate?

[Kate Wexler]

I want to thank my parents for supporting me. My. My cats as well.

[Molly Bloom]

But you already gave your acceptance speech today.

[Kate Wexler]

Oh, I know. I mean, my cats are very there for me, too.

[Molly Bloom]

We want to thank the voice of our hold music, Brenna Everson, our announcer, Marley Feuer, worker Otto, and the listeners that shared their opinions at the top of the show. That's Olivia Armitage, Stella Armitage, Eva Wormington, Jane Wormington, and Silas Newton. And before we go, let's check in with Mark and Philip, the brothers who sent us their idea for a penguin versus dinosaur debate. Here's what they had to say.

[Listener/Caller]

Penguins would win because they are so nice and they're beggars. And I think dinosaurs would win because dinosaurs don't just come in cottonwood to come in carnivores, herbivores and omivores.

[Molly Bloom]

Dinosaurs versus Penguins. Pizza versus Tacos. Unicorns versus Dragons. This has been one crazy season of smash boom battles. We've had the best time, and we hope you have, too. This is our last episode of the season, but smashboom Best will hopefully be back with more epic matchups soon. In the meantime, we could use your help. Since you love the show. We need your help to grow. Please head to Apple Podcasts and give us a bunch of stars. Write us a review. Mention us on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram. Tell anyone and everyone about the show. If enough people listen, we'll be able to keep turning your ideas into epic showdowns. So until next time.

[Kate Wexler]

Oh.

[Hold Music / Background Voice]

Better than the rest. It's magical West. It's magical West.