Libraries vs. Museums

Summary

Smash Boom Best: "Libraries vs. Museums" (June 12, 2019)

A funny, smart debate for kids and families by Brains On Universe

---

Episode Overview

In this lively, family-friendly debate episode, host Molly Bloom welcomes two passionate debaters—Joy Dolo for Team Library and Mark Sanchez for Team Museum—to battle it out over which institution reigns supreme: the humble library or the mighty museum. Judge Ben listens carefully as both sides bring history, humor, music, and even alien encounters to the challenge, aiming to persuade listeners which is truly the "smash boom best" source of learning and fun.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Arguments & Biases

• Host Introduction (00:00 - 01:00): Molly Bloom sets up the debate, defining the stakes: which is most educational, inspiring, impressive, and coolest?
• Judge’s Pre-Debate Opinion (01:12): Ben leans toward libraries:

  "I like libraries better because it's quiet... you kind of know more what you're gonna get at the library." — Ben (01:24)

• Debater Introductions:
  • Joy Dolo (Team Library): “Libraries are basically the center of entertainment as we know it today.” (02:56)
  • Mark Sanchez (Team Museum): “Museums. You get to experience whatever is being shown to you...you get to feel that.” (03:31)

---

2. Round 1: Declaration of Greatness

Team Library (Joy Dolo) (05:06 – 10:10)

• Libraries provide easy access to information for everyone, offer much more than books, and are widely available:
  • "There are an estimated 116,867 libraries in the United States. That's more libraries than there are people in Green Bay, Wisconsin." (06:16)
• History of libraries: from ancient clay tablets, chained books, to public lending.
• Massive impact of women's clubs in the late 1800s/early 1900s, responsible for establishing most U.S. public libraries.
• Libraries are free, foster community, and host diverse events.
• Personal stories and humor (NSYNC marriage dreams!).
• Joy’s main point: Libraries are everywhere, accessible, community-focused, and have changed lives.

Notable Quote:

"My favorite memories in a library include reading all of the Little House on the Prairie series, listening to all of NSYNC’s first album while dreaming about how Joey Fatone and I would one day be married on a farm with several children..." — Joy Dolo (09:27)

Mark’s Rebuttal (11:22):

• “A library is a collection...so is a museum! Photo libraries? That’s just a museum of artwork in your pocket.” — Mark Sanchez

Team Museum (Mark Sanchez) (12:18 – 18:03)

• Museums fascinate by assembling curated collections—“Ten rocks, okay, I’m listening. 100 rocks...yes, please. When can I see them?” (12:20)
• There’s a museum for everything: video games, roller skating, bananas, even ventriloquism.
• Museums create visceral, unforgettable experiences with real artifacts.
• Tells the engaging saga of the Ashmolean Museum—the first modern public museum, born from the collection ("cabinet of curiosities") of the Tradescant family and ultimately named after Elias Ashmole.
• Museums as "guardians of our most precious items."
• Mark’s main point: Museums offer direct, immersive contact with human history, creativity, and even the weirdest parts of our world.

Notable Quotes:

"It is the physical presence that is the experience." — Lisa Sweezy, Vent Haven Museum (13:34)
"Museums are the guardians of our most precious items...heroes of the universe." — Mark Sanchez (17:56)

Joy’s Rebuttal (18:49):

• Points out libraries are free unlike museums, and you get to borrow items.
• Pokes fun at museum “heroes” claim with a Captain Planet joke and silly voice.

---

3. Micro Round 1: Alien Encounter (24:39 – 29:50)

Each debater, as an alien, observes their assigned institution.

Team Museum (Mark)

• Visits a natural history museum, is amazed by dinosaur skeletons:
  • "It stood about as tall as a red bellied rat smell... this Tyrannosaurus run rats had huge sharp teeth and tiny arms." (25:39)
• Observes Earthlings connecting to past lives and wonders about the sleeping alien in a library: "It looked as if the building itself had put the agent to sleep almost as if the library was so boring..." (26:52)

Team Library (Joy)

• Alien observes all-ages activities and community:
  • "...a herd of small humans clapping while another much older human sings A, B, C, D, E, F, G..." (27:49)
• Humor in alien confusion ("Google" means "ice cream sandwich" back home).
• Finds emotional connection when a librarian helps her; invents the word “fuldorfingle” for crying with joy: “My eyes are leaking...I am crying. Or as my people say, Fuldorf Angel.” (29:31)

Memorable Banter (29:50):

"I am phildorfingle with Joy. How do you spell that?" — Molly Bloom
"Spell like it sounds." — Joy Dolo

---

4. Sneak Attack: Twinkle, Twinkle Parody (31:25 – 33:00)

Both must write and sing a "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" about their side.

Joy’s Song (Library) (32:04):

"Libraries are the best in town.
If you're there, you'll see a clown.
Books and music, events too.
You'll need a few days before you're through.
This is my library jingle.
Hope it makes you fuldorfingle."

Mark’s Song (Museum) (32:37):

"Statues, pics and paintings, please.
Museums for you and me.
See van Gogh, starry night
Spaceships, aeroplanes of flight
Museums for you and me
Way better than libraries."

---

5. Final Six Words (34:01 – 34:35)

Each debater must summarize their side in just six words.

• Mark (Museum): "Museums now and forever. Libraries. Meh." (34:06)
• Joy (Library): "Books, movies, music, free. Museums: inappropriate. Oh my!" (34:16)

---

6. Sudden Death: Superhero Showdown (35:27 – 38:27)

If their side was a superhero, what would they be?

• Mark (Museum): Experiendo—superpower is letting you “experience” everything: dinosaurs, paintings, statues.
• Joy (Library): Lena Literacy Library Razor—superpower is finding exactly what you need in a library, guiding you to every book, fact, or song.

Winner: Joy / Team Library

“The winner of this debate is Joy.” — Molly Bloom (38:27)
"I like Joy's name better. Ben likes syllables." — Ben (38:53)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You probably don't want to try borrowing a Picasso painting from a museum.” — Joy Dolo (09:22)
• “There's a museum for dummies.” — Mark Sanchez (13:12)
• “Statues without a head. Yes. Or legs or arms.” — Ben, on why he prefers libraries (01:22)
• “I declare cheating!” — Joy Dolo, upon Mark’s passionate dinosaur plea (19:35)
• “Museums are the guardians of our most precious items...heroes of the universe.” — Mark Sanchez (17:56)
• "Hope it makes you fuldorfingle" — Joy Dolo, coining a new word for joyful tears (32:21)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:00-03:31 — Host/contestant intros, opening positions
• 05:06-10:10 — “Declaration of Greatness”: Team Library
• 12:18-18:03 — “Declaration of Greatness”: Team Museum
• 24:39-29:50 — Micro Round “Alien Encounter”
• 31:26-33:00 — Sneak Attack: “Twinkle, Twinkle, I’m a Star” Song
• 34:01-34:35 — Final Six Words
• 35:27-38:27 — Superhero Sudden Death round and winner

---

Tone & Energy

This episode is energetic, funny, sometimes silly but always enthusiastic. Both debaters use jokes, puns, songs, voices, and even a few (friendly) barbs. They offer clear, spirited reasoning and playful attacks, keeping things light and engaging for kids and families.

---

Conclusion: Who Won?

It was a super-close debate, but Joy Dolo’s creative superhero and connection to the audience gave Team Library the narrowest of wins. Still, both libraries and museums come away as educational, inspiring pillars of any community—inviting listeners to keep debating, exploring, and fuldorfingling (feeling joy!) no matter what.

Final reminder for listeners:
Vote for your favorite at smashboom.org; this debate may be over, but the learning—and the fun—never stops!

Transcript

[Molly Bloom]

From the brains behind brains on, it's Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions. Hello, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today, totally lit libraries take on the marvel of museums in a heated, high minded debate about which institution is the most educational, the most inspiring, the most impressive and the coolest. So which one will it be, libraries or museums? Libraries, because I love to read museums. They tell you about the history. They tell you about dinosaurs. Actually, I think a museum is cooler, but I prefer a library. Libraries are like really quiet.

[Joy Dolo]

You can't really do much in a library.

[Molly Bloom]

Museums are good for learning history, but you have to go there and pay. Museums, you can learn all about stuff and skeletons who will take them. Title, Smashboom. Best brainy bookish Team library or interactive outgoing team Museum. Our judge today is Ben. Hi, Ben. Hey, Molly. So do you already have an opinion about which one is cooler, libraries or museums? I like libraries better because it's quiet and you don't have to like walk around and look at art and you don't have to worry about seeing any inappropriate statues. Or statues without a head. Yes. Or legs or arms. You kind of know more what you're gonna get at the library. So even though you have maybe more kindly feelings toward libraries right now, do you feel like you can put that aside and be an impartial judge for this debate? Yeah. Excellent. And how do you feel about debates in general? Do you ever get into debates with your friends or family? Well, sometimes about dinner, but not really much. So like, in what regards to dinner and where we want to eat, are there tactics you use to try to persuade your family about where to go? For my aunt, I just lean up against her and then I look her in the eyes and try to look pathetic. So you try to use sympathy to get them to go your way. I like it. The puppy dog eyes. Can you make your saddest whimper sound? Yeah, I would go wherever you want for dinner if you make that sound. Now, without further ado, it's time to introduce our debater Here. To represent libraries, we have queen of the quiet zone, dame of the Dewey decimal system, a lady of learning, and host of the podcast forever ago, Joy Dolo.

[Joy Dolo]

Here I am with my quietest yelling sounds.

[Molly Bloom]

Joy, in one sentence, why are libraries cooler than museums?

[Joy Dolo]

Libraries are basically the center of entertainment as we know it today.

[Mark Sanchez]

Whoa.

[Joy Dolo]

I'll back it up. I'll back it all up.

[Molly Bloom]

And Here to represent museums, we have captain of Creativity, hombre of History, Master of monuments, and brains on producer Mark Sanchez.

[Mark Sanchez]

Listeners, you can't see this, but I am giving Ben my biggest, saddest puppy dog eyes for Team Museum. What's up?

[Molly Bloom]

And Mark, one sentence. Why are museums the smashboom best?

[Mark Sanchez]

I'm gonna start it off with one word.

[Molly Bloom]

Experience.

[Mark Sanchez]

Museums. You get to experience whatever is being shown to you. The artwork, the pictures. Even if they're inappropriate, you get to feel that.

[Joy Dolo]

I suppose. Mark, you're being a little loud for me right now over in Library World, so if you could just bring it down a couple decibels. Thanks.

[Mark Sanchez]

No problem. I'll have fun over at the museum.

[Joy Dolo]

Silence is fun. Quiet is fun.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, so before we get started, let's review the rules of the Round one is the Declaration of Greatness. Team Library and Team Museum will each have a chance to wow us with the history, science and lore specific to their sides. Next, we've got the micro round, a creative challenge each team has prepared for so they can showcase their side in an unexpected way. Round three is the sneak attack. In this round, debaters are surprised with a unique imaginative challenge where they have to invent a response on the spot. And then we have the final six. Our last super short round, where our debaters have a final chance to sway the judges with just six words. And we want you to participate too. Everyone out there tuning in, listen carefully, and at the end of the debate, go to smashboom.org and let us know who you think won. Now put on your thinking caps. Cause it's time for the first round of this clash of Collections Declaration of Greatness. We flipped a coin and Joy is up first. Woo. Woo. Woo. All right, Joy, let's get lost in the stacks. Take us on a tour of those edifices of education we call library libraries.

[Joy Dolo]

Sorry, I'm a little out of breath. I was running from King Henry viii. Or wait, no, that was last week. I was harpooning a great white whale. Oh, wait, no, that's not it. Oh, I remember. I was fighting Lord Voldemort today.

[Mark Sanchez]

Same time tomorrow.

[Joy Dolo]

You bet you're Dewey decimals. In fact, I can fight Lord Voldemort whenever I want. And you can too, if you're a part of the library squad.

[Mark Sanchez]

What are you saying?

[Joy Dolo]

Look it up. Voldemort libraries are important because they provide easy access to information. Libraries and museums have a little in common in that regard. But a library has way more options for reading fun and information than Any old stinky museum.

[Molly Bloom]

Stinky?

[Mark Sanchez]

That's not necessary.

[Joy Dolo]

And your good old public library has a whole lot going on besides books. You can hold meetings, have events, surf the Internet. I even saw an entire play in a. You guessed it, a library. There are an estimated 116,867 libraries in the United States. That's more libraries than there are people in the entire city of Green Bay, Wisconsin. Go Packers.

[Mark Sanchez]

I'm more of a Steelers fan.

[Joy Dolo]

Let's get technicalities out of the way. What is a library? It's usually a building or room that holds collections for people to borrow or refer to. They can contain books, movies, photos, articles, animals. Wait, no. That's a zoo. Libraries are the institution when searching for knowledge. But it hasn't always been this easy. To understand why libraries are so revolutionary, it helps to know a little history. Libraries have been around as long as recordkeeping, which was forever ago. There is evidence from the third millennium BC that shows clay tablets being used as a collection of records. Have you finished with the how to make a Fire for Dummies tablet yet?

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, yes. I have since moved on to the.

[Mark Sanchez]

How to Hunt for Neanderthals tablet.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, I love that issue. As the world developed more, reading became a sacred activity for the people with an education and money. Wealthy people had personal libraries to keep information close. Monasteries, which is where monks live under religious vows, had lavish collections of books and scriptures for perusal. They copied the tablets by hand to maintain them, and they loaned out copies to other monasteries. Doesn't that sound familiar? Overseas in England during the Middle Ages, a time with brave knights riding horses, castles and King Arthur, they were still far from borrowing. Books were chained to bookcases to ensure there was no theft, which is what I do with my most prized possessions too. There, there, Dr.

[Molly Bloom]

Per.

[Joy Dolo]

I love you so much. In the United States, things were developing fast. I'm talking about European settlers coming in the 15th century. Jamestown founded in 1607, and oh yeah, the Revolutionary War in 1776. NBD the settlers also brought churches with them. And churches had libraries. But they still weren't at the point of lending out books to the masses. Rumor has it that the first public library was erected in Boston in the early 1700s. Slowly, other people were following suit. Even Benjamin Franklin donated and made his own members Only small library in Philadelphia. There may have been a handful of other libraries over the course of the 17th and 18th century, but for some reason, libraries were still relatively rare. Then came the women's clubs, trap mix. Boom, boom, boom, in the late 1880s and early 1900s, women's clubs were popping up across the country. They were all about education, justice in the legal system, protecting the environment, and creating libraries. They already had collections of books and believed education was for everyone. Along with the American Library association, we have them to thank for nearly 80% of the public libraries in North America.

[Molly Bloom]

We did it.

[Mark Sanchez]

We did it.

[Joy Dolo]

Shh.

[Molly Bloom]

We did it.

[Joy Dolo]

Today, libraries are open to everyone everywhere. You can borrow most items and bring them back at a reasonable time. You probably don't want to try borrowing a Picasso painting from a museum. Libraries are vital because they provide a way to connect. My favorite memories in a library include reading all of the Little House on the Prairie series, listening to all of NSync's first album while dreaming about how Joey Fatone and I would one day be married on a farm with several children rabunctiously playing in the backyard as the sun sets, and oops, there goes my imagination again. It must be from all that reading at the library.

[Mark Sanchez]

It's gonna be May. Sorry. I'm a huge NSYNC fan.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, man. A very compelling case for libraries. I would listen to the trap of that whole declaration of greatness. There was singing, there was beatboxing.

[Mark Sanchez]

There was a lot of overstated library facts. What?

[Molly Bloom]

Well, Ben, what stood out to you about Joy's declaration of greatness? That only wealthy people had personal libraries and that there are more libraries than the people in the city of Green Bay, Wisconsin, and that there are just so many libraries. They're everywhere.

[Joy Dolo]

They're everywhere. And, you know, you were saying you even had one in your school. So you have them in the schools. You have them in churches. You have the ones that are just for public perusal. They're everywhere. There's probably a lot more than museums. I'm pretty sure there are.

[Molly Bloom]

And plus, museums aren't in your school.

[Joy Dolo]

That's the truth.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, Mark, before this goes much further, we're gonna give you a chance to rebut Joy's argument. You've got 30 seconds. You've got 30 seconds to respond to Joy's ode to libraries. No whispering required. And your time starts now.

[Mark Sanchez]

Ben, I think museums are in schools because if you think about it, a library is a collection. You said it yourself, Joy. A library is a collection. What is a museum? It's a collection. All libraries are there for museums. Come on. You've got a library of books. It's beautiful. Photo library, Joy. Photo library in your pocket. No, that's not a Photo library. That is a museum collection of artwork in your pocket, right on your phone. You've got all those pictures. Little House in the Prairie Museum. You want to go there? I bet you do.

[Molly Bloom]

Same time.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay. Libraries and museums are the same thing. That's like potato, potaho. Only one is spelled wrong.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, this is getting feisty.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, I don't know if we're gonna.

[Mark Sanchez]

Be friends after this.

[Joy Dolo]

These are so deep.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, well, now it's time for Mark's declaration greatness. Mark, show us what those dwellings of discovery known as museums are all about.

[Mark Sanchez]

There's something about a group of objects that fascinates us. One rock. Big deal. Ten rocks. Okay, I'm listening. 100 rocks chosen specifically for their features, shape, and relationship to each other. Yes, please. When can I see them? Because when things are in a carefully selected collection, it makes you think. But why these rocks?

[Molly Bloom]

Look at those shapes.

[Mark Sanchez]

Look at them as a whole. Oh, yeah. I could see building a house in that shape. You know what? I think these rocks might be related to another collection I've seen. When I say museum, you might think of the Mona Lisa or a woolly mammoth diorama or the starscaped dome of a planetarium. Art, history and science are the bread and butter of museum culture. But did you know there's a museum of video games? And one for roller skating and bananas. There's one for comic books.

[Joy Dolo]

Look up in the sky.

[Mark Sanchez]

And one for spies. There's even a museum for dummies.

[Molly Bloom]

Vent Haven is the world's only museum dedicated to the art of ventriloquism.

[Mark Sanchez]

Lisa Sweezy runs the Vent Haven Museum in Fort Mitchell, Kentucky. And she's no dummy. She knows books in libraries can't compete with seeing something in person.

[Joy Dolo]

There is something very personal about being.

[Molly Bloom]

With the objects versus any other format that attempts to capture them. It is the physical presence that is the experience.

[Mark Sanchez]

Museums open to the public began to take shape in the 17th century. This is around the same time the first coffee shops were being introduced in England. In that time, it was common for someone to have a personal collection of stuff called a cabin of curiosity. These cabinets were actually rooms in rich people's homes, and they were filled with all sorts of rare, fantastical items. But you had to get an invite to see them. One of the first museums open to the public began like this. It was the collection of a British father son duo, both named John Tradescant. Author Marjorie Swan tells their tale in her book, Curiosities and Texts.

[Molly Bloom]

John Tredescant the elder was a phenomenal.

[Joy Dolo]

Gardener, and that's how he made his living, by working his wonder with plants for members of the elite.

[Molly Bloom]

I've been lucky enough to travel as far east as Russia on behalf of my employers.

[Mark Sanchez]

As a gardener, he had an eye for rare plants.

[Molly Bloom]

He was gathering plants for his employers, but he was also gathering plants for himself.

[Mark Sanchez]

He put some of these in his cabinet of curiosity, which he called the Ark. The Ark is much more than plants.

[Molly Bloom]

I have the ribs of a whale.

[Mark Sanchez]

A seahorse, and something called a banana. It's a fruit.

[Molly Bloom]

Have you met my son?

[Mark Sanchez]

How do you do? John Trudescant the Younger. I added to the Ark by traveling west to the Americas. The Tradescant were more than happy to show off their collection, but they didn't limit viewings to the elite. For a modest fee, anyone could see it. They were so proud of their collection and wanted it preserved for years to come.

[Molly Bloom]

It's time for me to bid this earth farewell.

[Mark Sanchez]

Goodbye, my son. How can I make father's dying wish come true? Enter Elias Ashmole, A lawyer by trade, but also a guy who was very interested in climbing the social ladder. I would be happy to help write down all the items you have here. I would love to get my hands on catalog the Ark. We could even publish it as a book. Well, then, let's get to cataloging.

[Joy Dolo]

Apparently, Ashmole paid the publication costs of this book.

[Molly Bloom]

And so, as far as Ashmole was concerned, if he paid to publish the catalog, well, that was as good as.

[Mark Sanchez]

Owning the stuff, wasn't it? When John the Younger dies. Long live the Ark. Ashmole's secret plan really kicks into high gear. With both Johns gone, it's going to be tough to keep this Ark thing going if it stays in the Tradescant house. I'll reach out to some acquaintances at Oxford University. Maybe they're interested.

[Molly Bloom]

The Tradescant Arch. Egads, we would love to have it. We'll even construct a new building to house it.

[Mark Sanchez]

Fantastic. There's just one thing. When it moves, how's about we call it, I don't know, the Ashmolean Museum? I did, after all, pay to publish said catalog. It only seems fair, right?

[Molly Bloom]

Um, well, I suppose.

[Mark Sanchez]

And the Ashmolean Museum is still open to the public today. Whether you step into a room filled with rare plants or dinosaur bones, or even ventriloquist dummies, museums are the guardians of our most precious items. Thanks to them, we can bathe ourselves in the presence of great works. Is it too Much to call museums. The unsung heroes of Earth. I'd take it one step further. Museums. Heroes of the universe.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

Complete heroes.

[Molly Bloom]

That was very fascinating and very grand. Ben, what did you think of Mark's declaration of greatness? What in there stood out to you? I like the very funny voices. And I didn't know that there was a museum for dummies. Right.

[Mark Sanchez]

There's a museum dedicated to Spam up the road.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, yeah, that's in town.

[Mark Sanchez]

Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

I mean, what. Don't go.

[Molly Bloom]

Mark.

[Joy Dolo]

You and your trickery.

[Mark Sanchez]

I learned from Elias Ashmole.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Joy, you have got 30 seconds to respond to Mark. And your time starts now.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, Mark, you said heroes of the universe. Actually, the only hero is Captain Planet. Precious items you can go see in a museum. Yeah, you can see precious items in a museum if you like. And they're precious and they cost money and libraries are free. Also, I can do a fun accent. Hoi to toy.

[Molly Bloom]

To toy.

[Joy Dolo]

Welcome. Today I've also got some things to say about museums. Oh, I should win because I sound so fun when I say it. Also, author Marjorie Swan. Why don't you go get her book at a library where most of her things are?

[Molly Bloom]

Time. All right, Ben, you've listened to both sides very closely. It got heated. There was music. What are your thoughts? Who was more persuasive? You're going to award a point, but don't tell us out loud.

[Mark Sanchez]

Do it for the dinosaur bow.

[Joy Dolo]

Cheating. I declare cheating.

[Molly Bloom]

No bribing. Ben, did you award a point? Yes, I have. Excellent work, Ben. Listeners, have you awarded a point? If you need a little more time to think about it or discuss it with your sister, uncle, guardian, teacher or friend, before you make up your mind, just press pause. We'll be here waiting for you. And if listening has given you an amazing idea for another debate, go to smashboom.org and send us a note. Yep. And we'll be back in a moment with more Smash Boom Fest. You're watching State of Debate. Home to rage and rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.

[Mark Sanchez]

Todd Douglas here with five time debate champ, Taylor Lincoln.

[Joy Dolo]

Today we're covering a debate that's creating.

[Molly Bloom]

A big buzz, despite the debater's small stature.

[Mark Sanchez]

Right you are, Taylor. In fact, our team had to break out some special equipment just to capture this one. Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

Let's go to the live feed from a playground in Spokane, Washington, where two ants are debating.

[Molly Bloom]

The best place to get a snack. Lunch boxes or trash cans?

[Mark Sanchez]

Trash cans are gross. Lunch boxes are treasure. Troves of sumptuous, pristine snacks.

[Joy Dolo]

Lunchbox food is hard to get at in trash cans.

[Molly Bloom]

Everything is easy access.

[Joy Dolo]

Every wrapper is broken, every drink spilled.

[Mark Sanchez]

Well, Abby and Alice and Angus and Albert and Ariana and Arwen and Adam are all headed for the lunch boxes, which means it must be the best place to get a snack.

[Joy Dolo]

Hoo boy. Did you just catch that, Taylor?

[Mark Sanchez]

For a little guy, he sure dropped a big logical fallacy on us.

[Molly Bloom]

Sure did, Todd. Logical fallacies are sloppy shortcuts. People use support their opinions, but they.

[Joy Dolo]

Actually make an argument weaker.

[Mark Sanchez]

Indeed, Taylor, there are many types of logical fallacies. The one you just heard is called a bandwagon fallacy. It's when you use popular opinion to support your side instead of logical arguments.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, how right you are. Let's hear the replay.

[Mark Sanchez]

Well, Abby and Alice and Angus and Albert and Ariana and Arwen and Adam are all headed for the lunchbox, which means it must be the best place to get a snack.

[Molly Bloom]

Ooh, this is a tough one to watch.

[Joy Dolo]

Todd, the aunt tried to make the.

[Molly Bloom]

Case that lunchboxes are the best because they're popular. But those things aren't always related.

[Mark Sanchez]

A blatant bandwagon fallacy. I mean, just because something is popular doesn't mean it's better. Maybe lunch boxes are popular because none of the aunts have tried trash cans yet.

[Joy Dolo]

Exactly.

[Molly Bloom]

Let's go back to the live feed.

[Joy Dolo]

To see how this plays out for our small friends.

[Molly Bloom]

Trash cans have so many more options than lunchboxes. They've got everything from last night's half eaten burrito to this morning's mangled muffin.

[Mark Sanchez]

But everyone finds their snacks in the lunchboxes. Come on, Alexander.

[Joy Dolo]

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good.

[Molly Bloom]

Do you smell that?

[Joy Dolo]

Day old carnitas?

[Mark Sanchez]

Oh man. Just this once. But I got dibs on the burrito. Holy mackerel, Taylor. That settles it.

[Joy Dolo]

Woo.

[Molly Bloom]

It really does, Todd.

[Joy Dolo]

That's a lesson to all you debate.

[Molly Bloom]

Heads out there, rookies and veterans alike.

[Mark Sanchez]

Bandwagon fallacies are no way to form an argument.

[Molly Bloom]

And if you. Todd, we talked about this.

[Joy Dolo]

I'm in charge of the buzzer.

[Mark Sanchez]

Just get it. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Molly Bloom]

I got carried away.

[Joy Dolo]

So keep those arguments clean and shy.

[Mark Sanchez]

Full of facts and we'll catch you next time on State of Debate.

[Molly Bloom]

Boom. Smash. Smashboom.

[Joy Dolo]

Best.

[Molly Bloom]

This is Smash Boom. Best, the show about showdowns. We get amazing debate ideas from our listeners all the time. Like this one from Paige and Regan in San Clemente, California. Our debate Idea is Thomas Edison versus Henry Ford. We'll give them a call at the end of the show to see who they think should win. Alright, let's get back to our smash boom battle of the day. Libraries versus museums. These buildings of books and palaces of placards are really bringing it. So open your ears cause it's time for our creative challenge Micro round. This week's micro round challenge is Alien Encounter. Each contestant has been instructed to pretend they're an alien who's been sent to Earth to collect data on libraries and museums for the very first time. Neither of them have seen a library or a museum before. So they're feeling very curious about these places and what all the earthlings are doing in them. Joy went first in the last round, so Mark, you're up first. Let's hear your field report on museums. Agent Amalama, Good to have you back on planet Snarf.

[Mark Sanchez]

Good to be back, Commander. Glad I didn't miss the spring volcano blooms.

[Molly Bloom]

Ah yes, you're just in time for that spectacular Snarfy and lava filling the night sky. Now to the business at hand. Your museum mission.

[Mark Sanchez]

Museums, right? In a word, Commander, fascinating. Apparently there are different classifications of museums on Earth. Some are houses for pictures and sculptures. Others showcase earthling discovery. My pod landed near something called the Museum of Natural History.

[Molly Bloom]

What did you find?

[Mark Sanchez]

That was where I saw the inner houses of a most ferocious creature. They call it a dinosaur. Apparently there are different types of dinosaurs. This one is called Tyrannosaurus Rex.

[Molly Bloom]

Interesting. Yes.

[Mark Sanchez]

It stood about as tall as a red bellied rat smell. But where the rat smell has cotton candy, this Tyrannosaurus run rats had huge sharp teeth and strangely tiny arms. Come to think of it. Anywho, the human inhabitants of Earth were very engrossed with this skeleton.

[Molly Bloom]

Were you able to ascertain why?

[Mark Sanchez]

According to documents at the museum, there was a time on Earth when these creatures were alive. It seems as if the human Earthlings learn about their planet by studying dinosaur skeletons. This museum artifact gives them a connection to history. It helps them understand how Earth continues to evolve.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank you for this thorough and delightful report, Agent Amalama. I wouldn't be surprised if this information gets you that promotion to Senior Snarf Agent. Was there anything else?

[Mark Sanchez]

Well, Commander, I would be remiss if I didn't report back on the library mission.

[Molly Bloom]

You mean the Agent Dilophanous mission?

[Mark Sanchez]

Yes. I happened to see Agent Dilophanas in the library. It looked as if the building itself had put the agent to sleep almost as if the library was so boring there was nothing else to do. I fear an extraction team may be necessary.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank you again Agent Amalama. We shall spare no expense to save Dilophanus. All hands on deck.

[Joy Dolo]

All hands on deck.

[Molly Bloom]

Boredom extraction Code red.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh wow.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh mark you got in. Facts about museums and disses and a promotion.

[Mark Sanchez]

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow, very impressive. All right, let's see what team Library has got hiding in her carols of knowledge. Joy, take it away.

[Joy Dolo]

Earth Year 2019 Observation subject libraries I have seen nothing like this place before. As I enter, a human says welcome. I dismiss them. To my right is a herd of small humans clapping while another much older human sings A, B C D E F G to them. What could this mean? An algorithm? Are these coordinates back to my home planet? Have I been discovered? I dash further. I see many. Oh, what is the word? Teenagers surrounding the box screens of information. Ah yes, I have studied those. You type in your inquiry to be a part of the Google and you are googled and answer very similar to my planet. It except the word Google means ice cream sandwich. Strange. And I am hungry. One of the teen humans glares at me and I stumble further into the most miraculous thing. Pages and pages of information packed into a leather bound contraption and placed into many rows and even cabinets. As I approach I wonder how am I to know which little paper box to grab? Am I allowed to touch? What if it bites back? I feel a human behind me. Is it the herd of small humans? The teenager. Am I done for? I turn. It says can I help you find something? It's welcome human again. What a relief. They are offering assistance. What is this? My eyes are leaking. This cannot be. I am crying. Or as my people say, Fuldorf Angel. The human leads me to an aisle about planet and shows me a book about space, including my home, Mars. I must be in the comedy section because these facts are not right. Still, with all this information and entertainment in one place, it is a wonder humans don't live here. I think I'm the funniest person.

[Molly Bloom]

I am. Wait, what was your word for crying? Phil Dorfingl I am phildorfingle with Joy. How do you spell that?

[Joy Dolo]

Spell like it sounds.

[Mark Sanchez]

M U Z E U M. There's.

[Joy Dolo]

A period in the middle.

[Mark Sanchez]

That's right.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh wow. Ben, you have a tough decision ahead of you. You have to decide who was more persuasive in their alien encounter. Micro round. Take a moment to to think about it. Listeners, you too. Take a moment to decide who you think won. Ben, did you award a point? Yes. Was that an easy decision or a hard decision? Um, kind of an easy decision.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, I mean, of course.

[Molly Bloom]

Awesome. Now it's time for our sneak attack. The sneak attack is a surprise every single episode, so Joy and Mark have no idea what it's going to be. Are you ready for your surprising assignments?

[Mark Sanchez]

Oh, man. Yes, I suppose.

[Molly Bloom]

Awesome. Your super secret round is Twinkle, twinkle, I'm a star. We need you to write a song about your side set to the tune of Twinkle, twinkle little star. For example, if I were to write a song about pickles, it might go. Pickles, Pickles in a jar. Kosher is the best by far. Make sense?

[Mark Sanchez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

Great. We will listen to some hold music while you work out your lyrics. Quiet. Shh. Crack a book.

[Mark Sanchez]

Library time.

[Molly Bloom]

Let's find a nook. Do the Dewey decimal classify a book for me.

[Joy Dolo]

Museums filled with art bones and maps and hey, that's a cool chart.

[Molly Bloom]

Great. Halls filled with facts and history. Okay, Mark and Joy, are you ready?

[Joy Dolo]

Yes.

[Mark Sanchez]

Twinklingly.

[Molly Bloom]

Joy, you are up first.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, goodness.

[Molly Bloom]

Let's hear it.

[Joy Dolo]

Libraries are the best in town. If you're there, you'll see a clown. Books and music events too. You'll need a few days before you're through. This is my library jingle. Hope it makes you full der fingle.

[Molly Bloom]

Call back.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, man, oh, man.

[Molly Bloom]

Mark, it's a tough act to follow, but you could do it.

[Mark Sanchez]

I think I can. Hem statues, pics and paintings, please. Museums for you and me. Sea van Gogh, starry night spaceships, aeroplanes of flight Museums for you and me Way better than libraries.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, did you notice that I threw no shade? I was like the bigger person in the song. I just wanted to throw that out there.

[Mark Sanchez]

This is called a debate.

[Joy Dolo]

Also, can we do it again? And can I use my Beyonce voice?

[Molly Bloom]

Absolutely.

[Mark Sanchez]

I call no fair for using Beyonce voice.

[Molly Bloom]

Also very impressive. Okay, Ben, you have another tough decision. Who won that round? Listeners at home, you too award a point for who you think won that very musical round. I did it. All right, we are almost at the end of this doozy of a debate, but we have not awarded our final point yet. We still have our last round, the final six. All right, we've heard them sing, we've heard them beatbox. But now they are going to present their final six words in the hopes of winning that last critical point. Mark, you're up first.

[Mark Sanchez]

All right, here we go. Museums now and forever.

[Joy Dolo]

Libraries.

[Mark Sanchez]

Meh.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, Joy. Okay, let's hear your final six.

[Joy Dolo]

Books, movies, music, free museums. Inappropriate. Oh, my.

[Molly Bloom]

This debate.

[Joy Dolo]

This is the best day of my life.

[Molly Bloom]

This debate is a doozy. Ben, I don't envy your position, but it's time to award that last point to whoever you think earned it. He's thinking.

[Joy Dolo]

It's a tough one.

[Molly Bloom]

Go with your gut, Ben.

[Joy Dolo]

Good game.

[Molly Bloom]

Go with your gut.

[Mark Sanchez]

Good match.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, you did well.

[Molly Bloom]

See what happens. Ben, have you awarded the final point? Yes, I have. Who is the winner? It is a tie.

[Mark Sanchez]

No, no, don't say it, Molly, don't say it.

[Joy Dolo]

It's a tie.

[Molly Bloom]

It's a tie. But it all comes down to this sudden death. Sudden death. Tiebreaker.

[Mark Sanchez]

Oh, man.

[Joy Dolo]

Dreaming. It can't be worse than, like, writing another song.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, your sudden death challenge is superhero. If your side was a superhero, what would your name and superpower be? We'll give you a second to think about it. Let's be quiet for Joy.

[Joy Dolo]

I'll be quiet, but some parts of the library are loud too. I just wanted to clarify.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, let's flip a coin to see who goes first. Heads will be Mark. Tails will be Joy. Heads. Heads. Okay, Mark, you are up first.

[Mark Sanchez]

I have to stand up for my superhero because I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna make an entrance because I know young Ben here. He's dreaming of all the things he could be doing. Looking at dinosaur bones or inappropriate art or.

[Joy Dolo]

Objection.

[Mark Sanchez]

Going to a video game museum. And Ben is at home. Who's gonna help him do that? Ah. Experiando, patron superhero to museums. I am Experiando, and I help you experience things. I help you experience dinosaurs. I bring you into paintings. I let you see the statues.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, so we've got experiendo Joy, who is your superhero creation.

[Joy Dolo]

Mine is Lena literacy. Lena literacy Razor. And her superpower is finding exactly what you need in a library, whether it be reading or music or reference materials. I can say it louder than you. She will help you through the library to find whatever fact and opinions and articles that you need.

[Mark Sanchez]

First you read about them, then you experience them.

[Joy Dolo]

But reading is also considered a type of experience. She said.

[Molly Bloom]

And now Joy's speaking in the third person.

[Joy Dolo]

I am her. You know, there's a little bit of her inside of all of us. Oh, so in a way, you are your own superhero. And that's how I end with a good message.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, we have Experiendo and Lena literacy Razor.

[Joy Dolo]

Lena literacy library Razor.

[Molly Bloom]

Lena literacy Library Razor. Yes, Ben, it all comes down to this. Who swayed you in that final round? Gonna be a tie. No, Ben, no. I can't. Okay, drum roll please. Ben, who is the winner? The winner of this debate is Joy.

[Mark Sanchez]

We are the champions, my friends.

[Joy Dolo]

Bohemian Rhapsody. We'll keep on fighting. I'll do the whole song if nobody stops me.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, my gosh. So, Ben, that was a really close debate. It was a tie. So what settled it for you in the final round? I like Joey's name better. Ben likes syllables.

[Mark Sanchez]

Note to self.

[Joy Dolo]

You know, I just wanted to say that I think that you fought honorably and that, you know, even though you didn't use your library voice all the time. I understand. And you know, I like your shirt. It's nice. It's my shirt.

[Mark Sanchez]

Your dress is amazing.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank you.

[Mark Sanchez]

And I think the place I like to go into sometimes in museums is the library. So you know, museum, library, friends.

[Joy Dolo]

Friends.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, Ben thinks that library's won today, but how about you head to our website, smashboom.org and vote? You can see if other people agree with Ben's decision. Yeah, I feel confident in my decision, but I'm curious to know what other people think. That's it for this big time debate battle. Smash BoomVest is a creation of the people at Brainz on and American Public Media.

[Joy Dolo]

It's produced by Mark Sanchez, Sandon Totten, Molly Bloom, Elissa Dudley and Rosie Dupont.

[Mark Sanchez]

We had engineering help today from Corey.

[Joy Dolo]

Schreppel and we had production help from Lauren D. Maneka Wilhelm and Christina Lopez.

[Molly Bloom]

We want to give a special thanks to Justin Koo and Eric Ringham, John Miller, Peter Eklund, Nikki Pedersen, Max Nesterak and Sam Chu. Mark, is there anyone you want to thank today?

[Mark Sanchez]

Yeah, I want to shout out to Lisa Sweezy and Marjorie Swan for helping me discover much more about museums.

[Molly Bloom]

And what about you, Joy? Anyone you want to thank?

[Joy Dolo]

I want to thank all of the librarians that I've hung out with throughout my life. I have a short list. Just kidding. But like through middle school and high school and college and even at the Hennepin county library and other library in town. Thank you for what you do.

[Molly Bloom]

And how about you, Ben? Do you have any special shout outs? Yes, I do. I would like to thank Rosie Dupont, Lissa Dudley, both you, Joy and Mark for being such good debaters. And you, Molly, for being such a good sidekick dancer.

[Joy Dolo]

Thank you.

[Molly Bloom]

I have your sidekick. I want to thank you for being such a good dancer. I would also like to thank my dad for driving me here. Excellent. And before we go. Let's call up Paige and Reagan. They are the listeners who suggested the Thomas Edison versus Henry Ford debate. I think Thomas Edison would win because he invented the light bulb. I think Henry Ford would win because he invented the assembly line to make cars interesting. Who do you think would win? If you have an idea for an epic Showdown, head to smashboom.org and tell us all about it. That's it for this episode of smashboom. Best. We'll be back soon with another debate battle. Ciao.

[Mark Sanchez]

Trap. I'm the Hi hats.

[Joy Dolo]

Libraries. Libraries are the best. Libraries are the best. Museums are terrible. That's the end of the song. It's done. Remix.