Loki vs. Athena

Summary

Smash Boom Best: Loki vs. Athena

Podcast: Smash Boom Best (Brains On Universe)
Episode: Loki vs. Athena
Date: June 26, 2019
Host: Molly Bloom
Debaters: Jed Kim (Loki), Elissa Dudley (Athena)
Judge: Dejuan

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Episode Overview

In this family-friendly episode of Smash Boom Best, the gods collide as Loki, the notorious Norse trickster, faces off against Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom. Debaters Jed Kim and Elissa Dudley use wit, facts, and creativity to convince both the studio judge, Dejuan, and listeners at home that their chosen deity deserves the title of Smash Boom Supreme. Over four lively rounds—Declaration of Greatness, the Micro Round, Sneak Attack, and Final Six—plus a sudden death face-off, they battle it out through humor, mythological history, and imaginative scenarios.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage

[00:07] Molly Bloom introduces the debate format and today's contenders: "Loki, the shape shifting trickster of Norse mythology, and Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom, have come to convince you they deserve the title of Smash Boom Supreme."

• [01:30] Judge Dejuan lays down his expectations: “If you were to make a joke, it has to be funny. If it’s not funny, it won’t win me over…especially if they’re corny.”

2. Declaration of Greatness

Loki (Jed Kim) —[04:14–08:59]

• Acknowledges Loki is a "complicated figure" who isn’t always likable.
• Emphasizes Loki's roots in Norse myth, beyond pop-culture portrayals.
• Loki’s wily tricks create conflict and drive stories, making mythology exciting:

  "Without him, all this mythology would be boring." — Jed Kim [02:20]

• Key tales: Loki’s pranks (shaving Thor’s wife’s head), his superpowers (shapeshifting, flying shoes), his role in the creation of Thor’s hammer.
• Loki never gets away scot-free and often suffers for his antics—teaching kids important life lessons.
• Argues Athena is too much of a “goody two shoes” and “bland” by comparison.
• Notable quote:

  "He’s a lesson to Viking children that they’d better act right. Compared with Loki, Athena is kind of bland.” — Jed Kim [08:00]

Athena (Elissa Dudley) —[10:12–15:39]

• Opens with an epic, cinematic retelling of Athena’s birth and her role as a battle goddess.
• Athena is more than war—she’s wisdom, crafts, strategy; "the goddess who does it all."
• Tells the legendary story of the Trojan Horse, showing Athena as both a war strategist and a master of clever tricks.
• Real-world influence: Athens named for her, temples and statues in her honor, and continuing cultural presence (e.g., the Bryn Mawr Athena statue).
• Athena inspires mortals beyond myth, representing wisdom and leadership.
• Notable quote:

  "Tricks aren’t going to do you any good on your calculus final. They’d probably just get you detention.” — Elissa Dudley [14:54]

Rebuttals:

• Elissa: “All the cool things that Loki did for his friends all start off with him messing something up royally…He’s fixing messes he could have just not created in the first place.” [09:27]
• Jed: “Athena is the goddess of so many things…that makes her a little too good for regular people…not necessarily someone you’d like. And definitely not the coolest.” [16:35]

Judge Dejuan found Athena’s connection to Athens impressive:

“I’ve never heard of a city called Loki.” [16:12]

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3. Micro Round: If Loki and Athena Were YouTubers

Prompt: Each deity gets their own YouTube influencer channel.

Athena’s Channel (Elissa Dudley) [22:24–24:51]

• Shares a “day in the life” video: daily runs, divine tea, reviewing battle strategy, helping mortals with wisdom (and donuts!), and showing off her artistic side.
• Self-care and mentorship highlighted, ending with, "keep your shields shiny and your swords sharp."
• Judge reaction: Impressed by Athena’s stamina—“She takes a whole jog around monolith.” [24:56]

Loki’s Channel (Jed Kim) [25:05–28:44]

• Prank channel titled "Lokin Around," interacting with fans and haters.
• Pranks on Thor (cat-triggered goat cannon), on Balder and Hod (awkward mistletoe kiss!), and even a prank on Athena (serves her “slightly lesser quality” ambrosia and unleashes Ragnarok).
• Ends with: "Since there's no one left to prank, I think I'm gonna change the focus and make this a gaming channel. Loki out."
• Judge reaction: “Everything. I’d watch that channel. Fan of a good prank.” [28:50]

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4. Sneak Attack: Survive a Shark Attack

Prompt: How would each deity deal with angry sharks?

Loki (Jed Kim) [30:40]

• Shapeshifts into a killer whale to defeat the sharks—and, for good measure, pranks the sharks by tying their fins together and dropping an anvil.

  “He would change into a killer whale…then drop an anvil on top of it.”

Athena (Elissa Dudley) [31:10]

• Uses strategy and diplomacy: mortals (with Athena's wisdom) build a wooden shark, send a diplomat inside to join the shark swarm, and peacefully convince them to move away—“no blood needs to be shed.”
• Judge Dejuan appreciates the thoughtfulness: “You’re right about the animal killings. I wouldn’t want that… She went with her head instead of brute force.” [33:54]

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5. Final Six: Slogan Showdown

Athena (Elissa Dudley) [32:36]

• “Athena would never trick you. Dewan.”

Loki (Jed Kim) [32:46]

• “Love, fun and jokes. Vote Lokes.”

Dejuan laughs and leads the score to a tie, “because it was just funny.” [34:07]

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6. Sudden Death: Band Branding Challenge

Prompt: If your deity had a band, what would it be called and what genre?

Loki (Jed Kim) [34:45]

• Band: Valhalla’s Revenge
• Genre: Trick rock (acid jazz + beat poetry + baroque elements); “Advertised as a polka band, but what they really get is some face-melting trick rock.”

Athena (Elissa Dudley) [35:29]

• Band: Just Athena (like Beyoncé); ancient Greek pop, always headlining the grand festival “Panathenaia,” the main event.
• Judge’s pick: “Ancient Greek pop.” [36:28]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Jed Kim’s opening volley:

  “Athena may look meana, but against Loki, she’s going to get smokey.” [01:56]

  • Labeled as a corny joke by both the judge and the debater himself.
• Athena’s birth myth:

  “She popped out of her dad’s head. That’s Zeus. Fully grown and fully armed.” [11:00]

• On cities named after gods:

  “I’ve never heard of a city called Loki. Oops.” — Dejuan [16:14]

• YouTube wars, Loki-style:

  “If he picks up this cat, it’ll trigger a cannon that’ll fire a goat right into his gut. Will he fall for it?” [26:23]

• Sudden Death genre confusion:

  “I didn’t like Loki because he said something about acid jazz and polka…You need to give with the culture.” — Dejuan [36:42]

• Heartfelt sportsmanship:

  “Jed, I think you did a really good job of trying to make this really unlikable figure likable.” — Elissa Dudley [37:14] “And Athena, you are clearly everything. I don’t actually have anything mean to say about you.” — Jed Kim [37:23]

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Judge’s Round Breakdown ([33:17])

• Declaration of Greatness: Athena (more interesting, impressive connection to Athens)
• Micro Round (YouTube): Loki (loves pranks, Athena’s channel would be “too much to watch”)
• Sneak Attack (Sharks): Athena (preferred her thoughtful approach)
• Final Six: Loki (found it funny)
• Sudden Death/Band: Athena (ancient Greek pop wins over “trick rock”)

Final Winner: Athena, as chosen by Dejuan in the sudden death tiebreaker.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Time | |--------------------------------|--------------| | Introduction & Setup | 00:00–04:00 | | Declaration of Greatness: Loki | 04:15–08:59 | | Declaration of Greatness: Athena|10:12–15:39 | | Rebuttals & Judge Feedback | 09:27–17:36 | | Micro Round (YouTube) | 22:24–28:44 | | Sneak Attack (Sharks) | 30:40–31:53 | | Final Six | 32:36–33:02 | | Sudden Death: Band Challenge | 34:45–36:32 | | Debrief, Thanks, and Wrap-Up | 36:32–End |

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Conclusion

This episode of Smash Boom Best is a lively and educational showdown between two legendary deities. With humor, clever historical references, and plenty of pranks, the debate captures both the fun and the creativity of mythology. While both sides make strong cases (and generate plenty of laughs), the judge ultimately sides with Athena for her wisdom, diplomacy, pop star power, and enduring influence. Yet, thanks to the show’s format, listeners are left to decide for themselves—which makes for the best kind of debate.

Transcript

[Elissa Dudley]

From the brains behind Brains on, it's.

[Dejuan]

Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

Hello, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today, Loki, the shape shifting trickster of Norse mythology, and Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom, have come to convince you they deserve the title of Smash Boom Supreme. Which one of these divine deities will triumph?

[Elissa Dudley]

I would. Athena, because I'm all for women. I like Loki because he's a trickster. Kind of reminds me of me because I like playing tricks on people.

[Molly Bloom]

Athena, she's the warrior. Which legendary character is cooler? Loki, the master of illusions, or Athena, the wise warrior? We have Dewan here to help us judge today's debate. Hi, Dejuan.

[Elissa Dudley]

Hello.

[Molly Bloom]

So, have you heard of Loki before? Yes. What do you know about him?

[Dejuan]

That he's a shapeshifter. And that's all I know.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay. And where have you heard about him before?

[Dejuan]

I watch Thor. I've read him in books.

[Molly Bloom]

So movies? Books. Do you like him? Would you say.

[Dejuan]

I can't say.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, good. Athena, have you heard of her before?

[Dejuan]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

What do you know about her?

[Dejuan]

She's the Greek goddess of wisdom.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. Do you like her?

[Dejuan]

Can't say that either.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, so what advice would you have for the debaters to win you personally over?

[Dejuan]

Well, if you were to make a joke, it has to be funny. If it's not funny, it won't win me over.

[Molly Bloom]

So your jokes better land people.

[Dejuan]

And if they're corny and they're not funny, that especially won't. Won't persuade me.

[Molly Bloom]

So we have a tough audience here today. That's good. No corny jokes. Well, let's see how they do. Let's introduce our contestants. Here to represent links Loki, the cunning con man is Jed Kim. Welcome, Jed. Hey. Hey, everyone.

[Jed Kim]

Athena may look meana, but against Loki, she's going to get smokey.

[Molly Bloom]

Would you qualify that as a corny joke? Yes.

[Jed Kim]

Oh. Oh, no. That's the best one I have. I've worked on this for weeks.

[Molly Bloom]

Jedi in one sentence, why is Loki the better being?

[Jed Kim]

Loki is better because he makes things fun and interesting. Without him, all this mythology would be boring.

[Molly Bloom]

And here to introduce the brave brain we call Athena is Elissa Dudley. Hi, Elyssa. Hello. And Elissa, one sentence. Why is Athena the best?

[Elissa Dudley]

Dewan, why would you choose a God that's good at just one thing? Pretty much just being annoying when you could choose a God that's good at Everything.

[Molly Bloom]

It's getting good already. Okay, so let's review our rounds of debate. First, we've got the Declaration of Greatness, where each contestant delivers a persuasive speech about their side, filled with facts, history, and lore. Next up, we have the micro round. Each debater has prepared a response to a challenge and are ready to wow you with their creative skills. Then we have the sneak attack. In this round, we surprise debaters with an imaginative prompt and they have to invent a clever response on the spot. And finally, the final six, where each debater has just six words to capture the essence of their side and take home the title. Dejuan, it's your job to award one point after each round. When you've settled on a winner, don't tell us who you thought won. It's a secret. Listeners at home, you should keep score too. And if you want to use one of our score sheets, download them on our site, smashboom.org so, Team Loki and team Athena, are you psyched for this superhuman showdown?

[Elissa Dudley]

Oh, I'm ready.

[Jed Kim]

I was born ready.

[Molly Bloom]

Dejuan, are you ready?

[Dejuan]

Of course.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, let the first round of this Smash boom battle begin. Declaration of greatness. Both of our debaters have trained long and hard for this. We flipped a coin and Jed is up first. Ready, Jed?

[Jed Kim]

Let's do this.

[Molly Bloom]

Tell us why Loki, that risk loving rule breaker, is the smash boom best.

[Jed Kim]

I'm just going to start right out by admitting that not everyone's going to like Loki. That's fine. He's a complicated figure. He's not for everyone who'd be a Loki fan? Let's see, which holiday do you prefer? President's Day or April Fool's Day? And you know that kid at school who is super popular and thinks they're so great? Would you rather heap compliments on them or tie their shoes together? You may think you know all about Loki because you've seen the Avengers movies, but he's really based on a much older, much cooler character from Scandinavian mythology, which pretty much means Viking mythology. Loki is a trickster. He hangs out with the gods, like Odin and Thor, but he's not totally one of them. I mean, his father was a giant, one of the magical creatures the gods fight against. And while Odin and the rest of the gods would be perfectly happy just sitting around thinking they're all so great, Loki loves taking them down a peg.

[Athena (voice/character)]

He's a part of their group, but.

[Elissa Dudley]

I think very often the other gods.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Must regret having him around.

[Jed Kim]

Lauren Poyer teaches Scandinavian mythology at The University of Washington in Seattle. She says one reason they might regret having him around is that he's so smart. Yeah, he's got lots of superpowers. Like, he's got special shoes that let him fly. He can change his appearance, turn into animals. He's even the fastest eater in all the universe. But it's his mind that's his greatest weapon.

[Elissa Dudley]

He goads on other people to do acts that sometimes work out well for them and sometimes have terrible consequences, which.

[Jed Kim]

Is why they're wary of him.

[Molly Bloom]

But.

[Jed Kim]

But they also see the value he brings. Because a lot of times, really good things also happen as a result of his scheming. For instance, there's one time he shaves the head of Thor's wife while she's sleeping. It's hilarious. But then, you know, Thor wants to kill him. So he promises to get dwarves to craft a new golden head of hair for her. And it's beautiful. Plus, the gods get a whole bunch of other incredible treasures as a result, including Thor's hammer. Mjolnir hammer. That's right. Thor wouldn't have his awesome hammer if not for Loki. Stories even say he invented fishing nets, which, when you think about how important fishing was to Vikings, that was a big deal. Another thing that was important to them, Stories. Stories kept Vikings entertained on long, dark winter nights. The myths they shared taught lessons in courage, creativity, justice, and they were fun. Lauren says Loki is the reason many of them are so good.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Well, you don't have good stories without conflict.

[Jed Kim]

The conflict Loki causes has people scrambling for solutions. But these solutions often cause more problems, and so on and so on, and you don't know how they're gonna get out of it. But then finally, some hero figures it out, and it's magical. And it's all because of Loki.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Very often, too.

[Elissa Dudley]

He's the one who solves the problem. But you don't get the fun of.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Trying to puzzle out what's going to.

[Elissa Dudley]

Happen if you don't have some sort of insider.

[Jed Kim]

If you can't get past the fact that Loki preys on people, it might ease your mind to know that he never gets away with doing bad things. Really bad things happen to him because of his actions. Like in that head shaving story, he gets his lips sewn shut as punishment. Another time, he ends up giving birth to a horse. And then there's the time he gets tied to a rock with the snake dripping poison into his. He's a lesson to Viking children that they'd better act right compared with Loki. Athena is kind of bland. She's the goddess of way too many things. Wisdom, courage, civilization, math, strength, strategy, arts and crafts. Pick something and stick with it.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Am I right?

[Jed Kim]

Plus, she's kind of a goody two shoes. Like that kid in class who answers every question and keeps his hand up and waves it around and goes, oh.

[Molly Bloom]

I know the answer.

[Elissa Dudley]

I know the answer.

[Jed Kim]

Next time that happens, look at that kid and think, Athena. Finally. I started off by saying a lot of people won't like Loki, but there are plenty of other people who do. The guy's in so many blockbuster movies these days, he's got his own comic book. They're making a TV show about him. I guess the world just loves a bad boy.

[Molly Bloom]

A very persuasive case for Loki. Dewan, what caught your attention?

[Dejuan]

In Jed's argument, when he said about the goody two shoes, the person that raised their head in the class was like, that's me.

[Molly Bloom]

Uh.

[Elissa Dudley]

Oh.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh. Know your audience, Jed. Well, Elissa, you have 30 seconds to respond to Jed's declaration. And your time starts now.

[Elissa Dudley]

First of all, I just want to say thank you for repping all of Athena's many accomplishments in your argument. Great work. Next of all, I want to say all of the cool things that Loki apparently did for his friends all start off with him messing something up royally. He's not doing cool things. He's fixing messes that he could have just not created in the first place. Cutting off your friend's hair. Hilarious prank. You know why he was alone off in the mountains and invented a fishnet? Because he tricked someone into murdering their brother. Also a hilarious prank.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Not.

[Molly Bloom]

Dejuan. Any thoughts about our debate so far?

[Dejuan]

Good. Guys.

[Elissa Dudley]

He's playing his cards close to his face.

[Molly Bloom]

He doesn't want to betray anything.

[Elissa Dudley]

He knows the rules. You can't tell us yet.

[Molly Bloom]

Yep. Exactly. Okay, Elissa, it's time for your declaration of greatness. Why is Athena the most impressive of immortals? And go.

[Elissa Dudley]

Long, long ago, before humans walked the Earth, thunder rumbled through the heavens. The gods were angry. The giants that lived on Earth had launched an attack against the gods of Mount Olympus. Zeus, Poseidon, Hermes. All of the Greek gods were locked in an epic battle for control of the cosmos. But just one God entered the battlefield in a chariot, her gray eyes gleaming and her armor shining like the sun. She got warmed up by picking up a whole island and slamming it down on top of a giant. The next giant she faced met an even worse fate. After she bested him in combat, she decided to use his Tough giant skin to her own advantage. Legend has it she flayed him and donned his skin to wear as a shield. Meet Athena, the Greek goddess of war. She was born ready for battle. No, seriously, though, Athena was never a baby. The story goes that she popped out of her dad's head. That's Zeus. Fully grown and fully armed. But being the goddess of war was not enough for Athena. Nope. She's also the goddess of wisdom, courage and craftsmanship. She can weave one heck of a tapestry. And lest you make the mistake of thinking there's anything Athena can't do, let me tell you the story of a time she played one whopper of a trick on some unsuspecting mortals. According to Greek mythology, thousands and thousands of years ago, there was a war between the Trojans and the Greeks. Now known as the Trojan War. The soldiers wore sandals and fought with long spears. They were so evenly matched that the war just wouldn't end. And while Athena is a God of war, she's not a fan of unnecessary fighting. So she decided to lend her Greek friends a hand.

[Athena (voice/character)]

If you humans can't end this war for yourselves, I'll have to do it for you.

[Elissa Dudley]

Athena hatched a tricky plan.

[Athena (voice/character)]

First, build a giant wooden horse. But make sure it's hollow. At dusk, wheel the wooden horse to the gates of Troy, where our enemies will be sure to find it.

[Molly Bloom]

Huh? What's this?

[Athena (voice/character)]

The Trojans will look around and seeing the Greeks nowhere to be found, believe that your troops have fled.

[Molly Bloom]

We did it. We won. Uh, I'm not really sure how, but sure. Victory.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Nice of the Greeks to leave such a thoughtful parting gift.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah.

[Elissa Dudley]

What sweet dudes.

[Molly Bloom]

Wheel that baby inside.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Once the Trojans are done celebrating, our troops will emerge from inside the wooden horse and claim true victory.

[Molly Bloom]

Man, they really got us.

[Loki (voice/character)]

I already mailed off a thank you.

Card for that horse.

Everybody signed it.

[Elissa Dudley]

Of course, this is all myth, but despite being fictional, Athena influenced the real world in big ways. Ever heard of Athens, the capital of Greece? That is Athena's city. The story goes that Athena bested another God, Poseidon, in a contest to become the patron God of the city. And so the very real residents of ancient Athens built a temple to Athena, made tons of art inspired by her, and worshiped her religiously. Athena has made such an impression on us mortals that we're still churning to her for divine intervention today. Like the students at Bryn Mawr College in Pennsylvania, where they have a seven and a half foot statue of Athena on campus.

[Molly Bloom]

She is very special because you can Give her an offering when you want something, and then she will hopefully give you the thing that you want in return.

[Elissa Dudley]

That's Delia Bloom, a Bryn Mawr graduate and sister of our host, Molly. Delia says the students make all kinds of offerings to their Athena statue. Flowers, poetry, jewelry, donuts, you name it. Most of these offerings come during finals.

[Molly Bloom]

Week because people are freaking out. Understandably. They have a lot of projects to do, a lot of tests, a lot of papers.

[Elissa Dudley]

Of course, these students want the goddess of wisdom in their corner when they're cramming for exams. Tricks aren't going to do you any good on your calculus final. They'd probably just get you detention. But listen, like Athena, I'm very wise and just. And I want this to be a fair fight. Okay? So I made sure to ask Delia.

[Molly Bloom]

Do you ever leave offerings for Loki? Um, no. We have no signs of Loki on our campus.

[Elissa Dudley]

That's what I thought. When it comes to wisdom, warfare crafts, and, yes, the occasional epic tricks, I say lay your offerings at the feet of Athena, the goddess who does it all.

[Molly Bloom]

An august argument for Athena. Dewan, what did you think of Elisa's declaration?

[Dejuan]

Playing dirty.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh. Why? Why do you say that?

[Dejuan]

Used her sister.

[Jed Kim]

That's right.

[Elissa Dudley]

I mean, I'm glad you picked up on the fact that, you know, Molly's sister is kind of an Athena fan.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, I'm not the judge. You are. So she can't influence me because it's up to you to decide. Were there any points that Elissa made that you're like. Ooh, that's actually, like, a pretty good argument on Athena's behalf.

[Dejuan]

Um, the part about Athens, about how.

[Molly Bloom]

They built the city in her honor?

[Dejuan]

Mm. I've never heard of a city called Loki. Oops.

[Jed Kim]

That's true. Do you want to go see the Athena movie with me later? Oh, wait, there isn't one.

[Elissa Dudley]

Listen, Athena didn't sell her life rights away like Loki.

[Jed Kim]

Nobody wanted.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, man. Okay, well, Jed, you've got 30 seconds to poke holes in Elissa's argument. And your 30 seconds starts now.

[Jed Kim]

Athena is the goddess of so many things. Like, pretty highfalutin things, too. So that makes her a little too good for regular people. Like, she's someone you'd respect, sure, but not necessarily someone you'd like. And definitely not the coolest. Especially since she's the goddess of warfare. No, thanks. War? What is she good for? Absolutely nothing. Also, she popped out of her dad's forehead like a zit. Gross.

[Elissa Dudley]

And time she cracked open his skull to leave. Okay.

[Molly Bloom]

Dewan, what do you think of that rebuttal?

[Dejuan]

Good.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah, I think that's gonna become dejuan's catchphrase.

[Elissa Dudley]

He's not giving us anything here.

[Molly Bloom]

No, he doesn't want to give it away. All right, Dewan, now is the time. You have to award a point to either Team Athena or Team Loki. But don't tell us who you awarded the point to. Did you mark it down?

[Dejuan]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Was it a hard decision?

[Dejuan]

No.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh.

[Elissa Dudley]

Oh my gosh.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, the suspense is killing me. Listeners, make sure you've awarded your point as well. Which side had the most divine declaration? Let us know. Head to smashboom.org and send us a note. Okay, debaters, how are you feeling?

[Elissa Dudley]

I'm ready for the next three rounds. I'm ready.

[Jed Kim]

Feeling a little frightened, but still confident.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, well, we can't wait to hear you use your creative powers in the next few rounds. But for now, sit back and relax while we take a little halftime break.

[Jed Kim]

Yep.

[Dejuan]

And stay tuned. We'll be back in a minute with more smash.

[Molly Bloom]

Boom.

[Dejuan]

Best.

[Todd]

You're watching State of Debate, home to.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Ragin rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation Todd.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Douglas here with seven time debate champ Taylor Lincoln. Today, the international debate community is glued to every word of a showdown outside of an ice cream shop called Scoops on Scoops.

[Todd]

That's right, Todd. One customer, Luis, loves hanging out on the Scoops on Scoops patio with his dog. Another customer, Patty, doesn't think dogs should be allowed on the patio at all.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Luis and Patty have been pleading their case to Scoops on Scoops owner Kira. Let's go to our live feed.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Personally, I love dogs, but I don't want to lose any customers over this. I can't decide.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Okay, Listen, Kira. Almost 50% of US households have a dog. And that means you've got a ton of potential customers who might like to hang out on your patio with their dog.

[Molly Bloom]

Hold on, Luis.

[Todd]

Dogs can carry animal borne diseases and spread pests like fleas.

[Molly Bloom]

Do you want fleas in your ice cream?

[Loki (voice/character)]

I don't see how fleas. Fleas are going to get from the patio to the counter. Bottom line, dogs make people happy.

[Molly Bloom]

Look at Spike here.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Doesn't his wagging tail just put a skip in your step? Don't his puppy dog eyes just fill.

[Jed Kim]

Your heart with joy?

[Loki (voice/character)]

You should want your customers to associate that feeling with Scoops on Scoops.

[Molly Bloom]

Bow wow wow, Todd.

[Todd]

Luis is attempting to win his debate using an emotional hook.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Hook, line and sinker. He really went straight for the Feels. An emotional hook is designed to sway your audience by making them feel some kind of emotion. Anger, sadness, happiness. Or in this case, cuteness.

[Todd]

Not technically an emotion tie, but Spike does sound cute as heck. An emotional hook can be an effective debate tactic, but it should always be combined with facts and logic.

[Loki (voice/character)]

True, if you only use emotion. That's a weak and manipulative argument. Let's see if our doggo loving debater can bring it home.

[Elissa Dudley]

Oh, come on, Luis.

[Todd]

How do you know how people feel?

[Loki (voice/character)]

In fact, Patty, scientific studies have shown that being around dogs lowers your stress and increases oxytocin, AKA the happy hormone, because it makes you feel happy.

[Athena (voice/character)]

So that's why I love hanging out with Spike so much. Feeling good is good for business. I say he can stay.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Hot diggity dog, Taylor. Luis really stuck his landing with those scientific studies.

[Todd]

He used an emotional hook to make his audience feel something, and then he added facts to back it up.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Now I'm feeling feelings.

[Todd]

Oh, Todd, are you gently weeping?

[Loki (voice/character)]

You know, Taylor, sometimes a great debate just moves me. Carry on without me.

[Todd]

Alrighty then. Here's a tissue. Next time you're engaged in a debate battle, consider an emotional hook.

[Loki (voice/character)]

But don't forget to back it up with facts and logic. We'll catch you next time on State of Debate.

[Molly Bloom]

Best Smash. Smashboom.

[Dejuan]

Best.

[Molly Bloom]

This is Smash. Boom. Best. The show about showdowns. Like, have you ever thought about who would win this battle?

[Elissa Dudley]

My debate idea is sun versus Moon.

[Molly Bloom]

That debate idea was sent to us by Hayden from Columbus, Ohio. We'll give him a call at the end of the show to see who he thinks would win. Alright, let's get back to our smashboom battle of the day. Loki versus Athena. Our playful prankster and courageous commander are locked in a fearsome face off. Let's see who triumphs in our inventive challenge. The Micro round.

[Elissa Dudley]

Micro round.

[Molly Bloom]

This week's Micro round challenge is YouTube star Elissa and Jed have transformed Athena and Loki into YouTube sensations. Will they be inspirational over Sherry? Who knows? All right, Jed went first in the last round. So Elyssa, we'll have you take the lead in this one. So, Elyssa, what do you have?

[Elissa Dudley]

I have a kind of, you know, impressive influencer video from Athena, who just has a lot of fans that are interested in all the tiny details of her life and she's willing to share them on YouTube.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Morning, mortals. It's me again, the goddess of warfare. Battle, strategy, wisdom, courage, sculpture, weaving, pottery, urban defense, and so on and so forth. My subscribers are always writing to me saying, athena, I just don't get it. How do you get it all done? Superhuman speed and strength and not being bound by the constraints of earthly physics doesn't hurt. But other than that, I'm just like you. So I made a little video to show all you worshippers an average day in my infinitely long life. Every morning I roll out of bed in full body armor and start my day with a quick little 26.2 mile jaunt around Mount Olympus. Then I brew up a little Ambrosia of the Gods tea and review my battle strategy for the day. I might catch up on social media too. Another late night for Dionysus. I'm only human after all. Just kidding. Then I head down to Earth to mentor needy humans.

[Molly Bloom]

Here's a donut offering. Now, how about an A on my calc final?

[Athena (voice/character)]

Once I've saved some deserving humans from gruesome certain death or failing math, I indulge in a little me time. I might take a stroll in Necropolis and see what kind of offerings have been left for me in my various temples. Self care is so important. If you can spare even 10 minutes to visit your namesake temple in the middle of your workday, I highly recommend it. Then I usually spend the evening in my art studio creating unparalleled works of art. Occasionally, a mortal will challenge the superiority of my craftsmanship, but that never ends well for them.

[Elissa Dudley]

I take it back. Never mind. Your tapestries are the best. The very finest.

[Athena (voice/character)]

So how do you humans spend your numbered, inconsequential days? Leave me comments below. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button for weekly wisdom and warfare chats from yours truly. Until next time, keep your shields shiny and your swords sharp.

[Molly Bloom]

Those were some very smooth YouTube moves, Dejuan. What did you like best about what you just heard?

[Dejuan]

She takes a whole jog around monolith.

[Molly Bloom]

That's what happens when you're a goddess. Okay, Jed, let's hear it from Loki.

[Jed Kim]

Loki is a shape shifting trickster. I think there's only one thing we can assume that this video channel is going to be about pranks.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Hey, guys, Loki here. I've got another great episode of Lokin around. But first, as always, we've got some fan mail to get through.

[Molly Bloom]

We love you, Loki.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Here's a message from Lokester Forever.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Hey, I nearly barfed I was laughing so hard when you tricked Thor into eating 60 pounds of rubber bands.

[Molly Bloom]

You rule.

[Loki (voice/character)]

No, you rule, Oakster 4. And because you do, I'm gonna send you a Loki Nation sticker.

[Jed Kim]

Loki Nation.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Stick it somewhere funny. Here's someone who didn't like that trick. It's from AsgardNerd55.

[Jed Kim]

Why are you so mean to Thor? You're just jealousy.

[Dejuan]

So strong. And you're so weak.

[Jed Kim]

Back off.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Whatever. That's fine, Asgardnerd. Some people just can't handle a loke. But I think you'll learn how to deal with getting roasted. Because I burned your house down. But let's get to the real reason you're all. Pranks, pranks, pranks.

Prank em in the face.

First of all, as always, messing with Thor. This time, watch as I shapeshift into a kid and go up to the big dummy.

[Molly Bloom]

Hey, mister, can you pick up my cat for me?

[Loki (voice/character)]

All right, so if he picks up this cat, it'll trigger a cannon that'll fire a goat right into his gut. Will he fall for it?

[Molly Bloom]

That's a daisy kitty. Oh, my divine dummy. Ha ha.

[Jed Kim]

Classic.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Oh, you want me to step it up a notch? Okay, for this next prank, I've transformed.

[Molly Bloom]

Myself into a lady because I'm pranking Balder, who has almost no weaknesses. Almost? It's our Christmas party, and I've told him to put on a blindfold and meet me under the mistletoe for a kiss. Okay, but see, I'm told the exact same thing to his brother. Hod. Blindfolds off. How'd you like that, hottie? Nothing like a super duper romantic smooch with your brother.

[Jed Kim]

My brother.

[Molly Bloom]

I'm gonna die.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Alright, I saved the best for last. You know who really needs to get pranked? Athena. So I've cooked up something really good.

I've disguised myself as a fancy chef. I've got a covered silver platter which is giving off the most delicious smells. Bon appetit. This is ambrosia of the highest quality.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, lovely. I do enjoy a good ambrosia.

[Loki (voice/character)]

But it's really a slightly lesser quality.

[Molly Bloom]

Ambrosia.

[Loki (voice/character)]

And then I set loose my children, the Midgard serpent, the giant wolf, Fenris, and Hell, ruler of the dead herself, to lay waste to the world. The universe itself will crumble to ash. All will be destroyed in Ragnarok.

So that's it for this episode. Thanks for watching. And.

[Jed Kim]

Oh, right.

[Loki (voice/character)]

I brought about Ragnarok. The Norse version of the end of the world. Huh. Well, if anyone's left, subscribe and comment. And since there's no one left to prank, I think I'm gonna change the the focus and make this into a gaming channel. Loki out.

[Molly Bloom]

Whoa. Loki is coming for those likes. All right, Dewan, what did you like about that YouTube video?

[Dejuan]

Everything.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, everything.

[Dejuan]

I'd watch that channel.

[Molly Bloom]

You would watch that channel? Fan of a good prank.

[Dejuan]

Yes.

[Jed Kim]

Everyone loves pranks. How many people love math?

[Molly Bloom]

Well, Dan might like math, too. Do you like math?

[Dejuan]

I mean.

[Molly Bloom]

You know, Dewan contains multitudes. He can like pranks and beans, too.

[Elissa Dudley]

Just like Athena, can be many things.

[Dejuan]

I mean, I am kind of like Athena.

[Elissa Dudley]

Thank you.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank you.

[Dejuan]

Yes, but that doesn't mean that I like Athena.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Gosh.

[Molly Bloom]

Ooh. Conflicted Dewan is not giving anything away. And I appreciate that. Okay, so now is the time, Dewan. Mark down your point, listeners. You do the same. Oh, he took off that pen cap with flourish. I think he knows. Do you know?

[Loki (voice/character)]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent work. Okay, it's time for the sneak attack.

[Todd]

Sneak attack.

[Molly Bloom]

And remember, the sneak attack is a mystery. Jed and Elissa have no idea what it's going to be.

[Elissa Dudley]

I'm ready. I'm ready.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

All right. Your surprise sneak attack is Shark attack. How would your side defend against a SHIELD Shark attack? Would you use smarts, strength, diplomacy? Get creative. And remember, there's more than one way through a horde of angry toothy sharks. We'll give you a few minutes to brainstorm. Cue the hold music, please. Cunning Loki loves to scheme. Shape shifting now like a dream, wreaking havoc and chaos far and wide. Athena, brave and bold. Warrior weaver with a heart of gold. Even has a temple. It's called apartheid. Okay, are you both ready?

[Jed Kim]

Yes.

[Elissa Dudley]

Let's do this.

[Molly Bloom]

Jed, you're up first. Let's hear how Loki would fend off a gang of angry sharks.

[Jed Kim]

Well, this is actually quite easy. Loki is a shapeshifter. He can change into animals. So he would change into a killer whale, which, you know, can take down sharks and. But he's also a trickster. So after he changes into a killer whale, he'd tie that shark's fins together and then drop an anvil on top of it.

[Molly Bloom]

Shape shifting anvil dropper. Let's hear how Athena would handle those toothy fiends.

[Elissa Dudley]

She would have her Greek buds build a wooden shark, and their best diplomat would get inside the shark. It's really cushy in there. There's oxygen supply. And he would join the swarm of angry sharks, chit, chat with them a little, with all the wisdom Athena has imparted to her human mentees. And you would convince them to just, you know, go to a different part of the ocean and no blood need be shed. The end.

[Molly Bloom]

She's Using her smarts, her strategy to get those sharks to go away.

[Jed Kim]

If there's ever any evidence that Athena is totally boring, here you have it.

[Elissa Dudley]

You don't want a bunch of shark friends.

[Jed Kim]

I can change into a shark anytime I want. I'm a shark.

[Dejuan]

Right now, you're both in Poseidon's territory.

[Molly Bloom]

Good point. Okay, Dewan, now is your moment. You have to award a point for who did better in this shark attack round.

[Dejuan]

I'm gonna tell you the truth. This one is hard.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, finally, a hard round.

[Jed Kim]

Go with your good one.

[Elissa Dudley]

Okay, don't choose violence.

[Jed Kim]

Come to the dark side.

[Dejuan]

I'll choose the one that I would actually do.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah, you guys, stop trying to persuade. Have you awarded a point?

[Athena (voice/character)]

Si.

[Molly Bloom]

Alright, we're almost at the end of this mighty debate. Loki, Athena, you each have one more chance to win over your audience. It's time for the final six. Elissa, it's all you.

[Elissa Dudley]

Athena would never trick you. Dewan.

[Molly Bloom]

A personal appeal in the final six. All right, Jed, your turn.

[Jed Kim]

Love, fun and jokes. Vote Lokes.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Dejuan, in your opinion, which six word statement is the winner? Oh, he's laughing. He did it immediately. Oh my God. Dejuan, tell us who is the winner.

[Dejuan]

It looks like it's a tie.

[Molly Bloom]

It's a tie.

[Dejuan]

You're both so good.

[Molly Bloom]

They are both so good. Hard to decide. So like, do you want to break down? Like, who got you on which rounds do you want to share?

[Dejuan]

Okay. Athena got me on the first round, I guess because what she was saying was more interesting. I didn't like Loki because it wasn't really that interesting.

[Jed Kim]

Harsh.

[Dejuan]

The micro round, I marked Loki because I like pranks.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent.

[Dejuan]

And also, I wrote down Athena's micro round was a bit much and if she had a YouTube channel, there would be too much to watch. I like watching, like, things that stick to one topic. And the sneak attack went to Athena because you're right about the animal killings and I wouldn't want that.

[Molly Bloom]

Yes.

[Dejuan]

Also, she went with her head instead of. What's the word for it?

[Molly Bloom]

Brute force.

[Dejuan]

Yeah, she didn't. She didn't just go for it. She thought about it. And then the final six, I went with Loki because it was just funny.

[Molly Bloom]

So not a corny joke from Jedi. He brought it back.

[Jed Kim]

I mean, it was pretty corny, but.

[Molly Bloom]

But corny in the right way. Well, there is no such thing as a tie here on smashboom Best. So we have prepared a special sudden death challenge for both of you.

[Elissa Dudley]

Sudden death.

[Molly Bloom]

The challenge is brand Your band. If your side had a band, what would the name of the band be? And what style of music would be? Would you play? Give you a little bit of time to think about it.

[Elissa Dudley]

Oh, I'm ready.

[Jed Kim]

I'm ready.

[Molly Bloom]

Teacher. All right, Jed, let's hear all about your band.

[Jed Kim]

Loki's band is called Valhalla's Revenge, and they advertise as a polka band. But what they really get is some face melting trick rock.

[Molly Bloom]

What do you think trick rock sounds like?

[Jed Kim]

I think it's like kind of like a mix between acid jazz and like beat poetry mixed with a little bit of classical music, like baroque. But it really works, trust me.

[Molly Bloom]

Valhalla's Revenge. Did I get it right? Yeah.

[Jed Kim]

I mean, can you say it cooler?

[Molly Bloom]

Valhalla's Revenge.

[Jed Kim]

Yeah, there it is.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Team Athena, Tell us about your band.

[Elissa Dudley]

Much in the way that Beyonce doesn't need a band name, Athena also does not. She's Athena and she's a huge pop star. She sings, you know, all the top 40 hits. She has the whole chart dominated in ancient Greece. There is a huge festival devoted to her entirely in ancient Greece. Happens every year. It's the biggest blowout of the year. It's called the Panathenaia. She's always headlining. She has backup dancers. Sure, backup musicians.

[Molly Bloom]

But she's the main event. She's just.

[Elissa Dudley]

She's the whole thing. She doesn't need help. Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay. On one side we have Valhalla's Revenge, who plays Trickra.

[Athena (voice/character)]

Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

On the other side, we have only one name needed. Athena, who sings Ancient Greek pop. Dewan, who are you going to award a point to?

[Dejuan]

Ancient Greek pop.

[Molly Bloom]

Athena takes it.

[Elissa Dudley]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I want to thank all the fans. Dewan, number one fan. You're gonna get a backstage pass. The whole package at Athena Chella.

[Dejuan]

I didn't like. I didn't like Loki because he said something about acid jazz and polka.

[Jed Kim]

It grows on you.

[Dejuan]

You need to give with the culture.

[Elissa Dudley]

Maybe study a little in the library. Athena could help you with that.

[Jed Kim]

Sounds great.

[Dejuan]

I gave it away. Who I was gonna choose anyway.

[Molly Bloom]

How?

[Dejuan]

I said I'm exactly like this person.

[Molly Bloom]

If you remember, you did say you're like Athena.

[Dejuan]

Mm. I'm like her in almost every single way.

[Molly Bloom]

So you can't vote against yourself is what you're saying.

[Dejuan]

Exactly. You can't.

[Elissa Dudley]

Jed, I think you did a really good job of trying to make this really unlikable figure likable.

[Jed Kim]

And Athena, I think that you were very, very good at being Everything. You are clearly everything. And I don't actually have anything mean to say about you.

[Elissa Dudley]

I did. I really liked your YouTube channel.

[Jed Kim]

I'm a trickster. I'm lying.

[Elissa Dudley]

Well, he got me right in the end. I was about to be nice. No, I did like your YouTube video a lot. I. I chuckled out loud.

[Jed Kim]

Oh, thank you.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, everyone, dejuan thinks Athena won. But listeners, how about you head to our website smashboom.org and vote. You can see who agrees with Dejuan and who doesn't.

[Dejuan]

I'm pretty sure I'm right, but we'd love to know what you think.

[Molly Bloom]

That's it for this sensational showdown. Smashboom Best is a creation of the people at Brainzon and American Public Media.

[Jed Kim]

It's produced by Mark Sanchez, Sandon Totten, Molly Bloom, Rosie Dupont and Elissa Dudley.

[Elissa Dudley]

We had engineering help from Veronica Rodriguez, Rob Jacob Springer and Sean Campbell.

[Jed Kim]

And we had production help from Maneka Wilhelm, Christina Lopez and Lauren D. Brenna.

[Molly Bloom]

Everson is the voice of our hold music and our announcer is Marley Feuer Worker Otto. We want to give a special thanks to Paul Ratliff and Itzy Kitania. Elissa, is there anyone you want to thank today?

[Elissa Dudley]

Yes, I want to thank Susan Decy at Roehampton University, Robin Diver at the University of Birmingham and Elizabeth Hale at the University of New England, Austin, Australia. They talked about Athena with me a lot. Also the late Edith Hamilton whose book Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes I highly recommend.

[Molly Bloom]

What about you, Jed?

[Jed Kim]

Too many for me to get to. But I must mention Lulit Labourne for her great voice acting as the over eager student. And also my Lokis, Skender Labourn, Sanded Totten, Andrea Mustaine and Daniel Shin.

[Molly Bloom]

And how. How about you dejuan? Do you have any special shout outs?

[Dejuan]

My mom, grandma, my brother and also Zeus.

[Molly Bloom]

Curveball. Wow. And before we go, let's call up Hayden. He's the listener who suggested the sun versus Moon debate.

[Elissa Dudley]

I think the sun would win because it is a burning ball of fire.

[Molly Bloom]

Can argue with that. Hayden listeners, do you have an epic debate idea? Head to smashboom.org and tell us all about it. That's it for this episode of smashboom Best. We'll be back soon with another debate battle. Through the test.

[Dejuan]

There'S a pizza Luche pizza called the Athena.

[Jed Kim]

Is it good or is it terrible? I bet it's terrible.

[Dejuan]

It's amazing.

[Elissa Dudley]

Thank you.

[Jed Kim]

Amazingly bad, right?

[Dejuan]

No, it's amazing.

[Loki (voice/character)]

Low key.

[Dejuan]

It's amazing.

[Molly Bloom]

That was good.