Matilda vs. Alice in Wonderland: a whimsical debate

Summary

Smash Boom Best: Matilda vs. Alice in Wonderland – A Whimsical Debate Summary

Release Date: February 20, 2025

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Introduction

In the latest episode of Smash Boom Best, host Molly Bloom invites listeners into a lively and enchanting debate between two beloved literary worlds: Matilda by Roald Dahl and Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll. Representing Team Matilda is renowned author and podcast host Adam Gidwitz, while June Sekhia, a filmmaker and rapper, champions Team Alice in Wonderland. Joining them as the judge is Elsa, an accomplished actor who has portrayed both Matilda and Alice on stage.

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Debate Structure and Rules

Molly Bloom outlines the debate format, which consists of four distinct rounds:

1. Declaration of Greatness: Each debater presents a passionate argument defending their chosen side.
2. Micro Round: Participants creatively address a specific prompt related to their side.
3. Super Stealthy Sneak Attack: An improvised challenge requiring quick thinking.
4. Final Six: Each team encapsulates their stance in six impactful words.

After each round, Elsa secretly awards points based on the effectiveness and creativity of the arguments, while listeners are encouraged to tally their own scores and vote on the winner via the Smash Boom Best website.

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Round 1: Declaration of Greatness

Team Matilda – Adam Gidwitz

Adam passionately argues that Matilda stands as one of the greatest stories ever told. He highlights Matilda's extraordinary intelligence and resilience in the face of neglectful parents and a tyrannical school principal, Miss Trunchbull. Adam emphasizes Matilda's transformation into a superhero with telekinetic powers, which she uses to challenge and ultimately triumph over oppressive authority figures.

Adam Gidwitz [03:23]: "Matilda isn't just a brilliant and lovable girl. She overcomes her mother, her father and Miss Trunchbull to free herself and her whole school."

Team Alice in Wonderland – June Sekhia

June counters by reimagining Matilda as a potential supervillain, suggesting that Roald Dahl initially intended her character to embody both heroic and antagonistic traits. She argues that Matilda's use of powers to exact revenge sets a problematic precedent, teaching children to "fight fire with fire."

June Sekhia [09:04]: "Matilda is a supervillain. That's how Roald Dahl was actually first trying to write Matilda as a character who uses her telekinetic powers to torment her parents and teachers."

Rebuttal

Adam defends his stance with humor and determination, stating:

Adam Gidwitz [09:42]: "If fighting cruel and stupid adults with superpowers is wrong, I don't want to be right."

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Round 2: Micro Round – Clearing the Villains’ Reputations

Team Alice in Wonderland – June Sekhia

June takes on the formidable Queen of Hearts, portraying her as a community builder who fosters connections among Wonderland’s quirky inhabitants. She argues that the Queen's strict demeanor is a façade masking her genuine desire to unite her subjects.

Queen of Hearts [22:18]: "I have never done any death."

Team Matilda – Adam Gidwitz

Adam defends Harry Wormwood, Matilda's unscrupulous father. He humorously portrays Harry as a charismatic car salesman who believes he's "cleverer than the whole lot of them put together," emphasizing that his actions are driven by a misguided sense of protecting his family.

Harry Wormwood [24:56]: "Matilda is behind this? You bet your bottom dollar."

Elsa awards points based on the creativity and effectiveness of the arguments, finding both performances entertaining and insightful.

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Round 3: Super Stealthy Sneak Attack – Alternative Titles

Team Matilda – Adam Gidwitz

1. Matilda Wormwood's Infinite Guide to the Best Pranks of All Time
2. The Tragedy of the Trunchbull
3. Power Eyeballs

Team Alice in Wonderland – June Sekhia

1. Super Color Wonderworld
2. Alice and the Queen who Set off with Her Head
3. Annoying Talking Animals Tour

Adam and June showcase their quick thinking and creativity, presenting engaging and memorable alternative titles that reflect the essence of their respective stories.

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Round 4: Final Six – Six-Word Slogans

Team Alice in Wonderland – June Sekhia

"Wonder filled seed of million worlds." [29:04]

Team Matilda – Adam Gidwitz

"Majesty of Matilda Girl Genius, Fighting, stupidity and cruelty." [29:13]

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Conclusion and Winner Announcement

After deliberation, Elsa crowns Matilda as the Smash Boom Best winner, citing the standout performance during the Micro Round and the humorous portrayal of Harry Wormwood.

Elsa [29:33]: "Yes."

Reflections

Elsa shares her favorite moments, particularly enjoying the comedic brilliance of Adam's portrayal of Mr. Wormwood and June's creative defenses. Both debaters receive heartfelt acknowledgments for their passionate and well-crafted arguments.

Listener Engagement

Molly Bloom invites listeners to participate by voting for their preferred team on the Smash Boom Best website and encourages submissions for future debate topics, such as the listener-suggested "Slinkies vs. Slap Bracelets."

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Additional Segments

• State of Debate: A segment analyzing logical fallacies, where the hosts dissect a false dichotomy presented during the debate.

  Molly Bloom [17:30]: "We just saw someone use the false dichotomy fallacy..."

• Promotions: Highlighting related podcasts within the Brains on Universe network and teasing upcoming episodes.

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Credits and Acknowledgments

The episode credits a dedicated team from Brains on Universe and APM Studios, recognizing contributors like producers, engineers, editors, and special guests. Shout-outs are given to participants who inspired and supported the debate.

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Final Thoughts

Smash Boom Best successfully delivers a thoughtful and entertaining comparison between Matilda and Alice in Wonderland, engaging both young listeners and their families in a meaningful discourse. Through witty arguments, creative challenges, and insightful commentary, the episode not only entertains but also educates listeners on the nuances of debate and critical thinking.

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Vote for Your Favorite!

Listeners are encouraged to visit smashboom.org to cast their vote for the winning team and stay tuned for the next exciting debate: Hamsters vs. Goldfish.

Transcript

[Molly Bloom]

From the brains behind Brains on, it's.

[Elsa]

Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a showdown between two beloved stories. Matilda versus Alice in Wonderland. Author and Grim Grimmer Grimmest podcast host Adam Gidwitz is here to defend Roald Dahl's tale of brain power and rebellion for team Matild.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Tilda, kids who love books forever.

[Molly Bloom]

And filmmaker and rapper June Sekhia is here to sing the praises of Lewis Carroll's whimsical world of wonder for team Alice in Wonderland.

[June Sekhia]

Down, down the rabbit hole we go.

[Narrator]

Alice is here to steal the show.

[Molly Bloom]

And here to judge it all is Elsa from Minneapolis. Elsa loves being in speech at school in the humorous category is going through a major Dolly Parton phase. And check this out. Has played both Matilda and Alice on stage. Hi, Elsa.

[Elsa]

Hi, Molly.

[Molly Bloom]

So, Elsa, you are truly the expert here. What do you love about Matilda and Alice? And, like, what do you feel like you learned about them playing them on stage?

[Elsa]

Yes. Well, that's. It's so fun to have a special connection with both of them. With Matilda, she really uses her knowledge as a power, I guess, to take her friends and everybody around her through this sort of journey of rebell. And then Alice in Wonderland. What I really like is that she's in this whole other world is experiencing all of these, you know, kind of fantastical sort of experiences. So it's very cool. They're both very different yet very similar.

[Molly Bloom]

At the same time. What would you feel like is their main, like, similarity, that they're both very curious?

[Elsa]

They're both very curious and they both want to learn more and see what there is more to the world.

[Molly Bloom]

And what about their, like, main differences?

[Elsa]

I think that Alice is more prim and proper and Matilda is a bit more tough and wants to, you know, really learn and read. So I think that those are the major differences between the two.

[Molly Bloom]

Do you have any advice for our debaters today?

[Elsa]

As an experienced judge, good luck and I wish both of you the best.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, so wonderful. Well, will Elsa side with Adam or June? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four. The declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge, Elsa will award points to the team that impresses her the most. But she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. Adam, June, and Elsa, are you ready?

[Elsa]

Yes.

[June Sekhia]

Let's do it.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So ready.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, then. It's time for the Declaration of Greatness. In this round, our debaters will present a well crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. Lift up to coin. And Adam, you're up first. Tell us what makes Matilda such a thrilleda.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Matilda is easily one of the greatest stories of all time. It's about an extraordinary little girl who lives with two of the meanest, most ignorant parents ever. They refuse to get her books. What's wrong with the telly? They want to know. So she starts sneaking out to the library where she reads every single book in the children's section and then moves on to grown up books like Great Expectations. By the time she starts school, she can do high school work. But the cruel principal, Ms. Trunchbull, forces her to stay in first grade. Matilda is powerfully bored and furious at the injustices Ms. Trunchbull visits upon her classmates. She is so bored, in fact, and so furious that one day, something strange happens.

[Narrator]

And now, quite slowly, there began to creep over Matilda a most extraordinary and peculiar feeling. A sense of power was brewing in those eyes of hers. And all of a sudden, she found she was frightened by nobody in the world.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And that is when Matilda becomes a superhero. But before she becomes a hero, Matilda is just a kid who feels utterly powerless. A kid who's pushed aside by nearly every adult in her life. Here's just one example. Her father is a used car salesman who cheats his customers. When Matilda finds out, she is appalled.

[Elsa]

But Daddy, that's disgusting. You're cheating people who trust you.

[Harry Wormwood]

If you don't like it, then don't eat the food in this house. It's bought with the profits.

[Elsa]

It's dirty money. I hate it.

[Harry Wormwood]

Who the heck do you think you are? The Archbishop of Canterbury or something? Preaching to me about honesty? You're just an ignorant little squirt who hasn't the foggiest idea what you're talking about.

[Adam Gidwitz]

But Matilda won't be kept down for long, and she fights back with amazing pranks. Which brings me to the first reason why Matilda is so incredible. Even if this book were nothing more than a prank manual, the pranks alone would make it One of the most useful books of all time. From super gluing the inside of your dad's favorite hat just before he puts it on.

[Harry Wormwood]

What is this? My hat won't come off.

[Narrator]

Help.

[Harry Wormwood]

Help.

[Adam Gidwitz]

To putting your mom's hair dye in your dad's shampoo bottle.

[Harry Wormwood]

My hair? Holy moly. I'm platinum blonde.

[Adam Gidwitz]

To putting a newt in your headmistress's drink.

[Molly Bloom]

What the.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Any one of these pranks will get you in such deep trouble that you definitely should not try them at home. But they're good, aren't they? Soon, even the pranks aren't enough, though. At school, the evil Miss Trunchbull uses her power and Olympic level athletic ability to terrify students and teachers alike. And it's here that Matilda becomes a superhero. Her pent up brilliance finally finds an outlet through her eyeballs. She can move objects with her eyes. And with this superpower, she begins a campaign to scare the Trunchbull so badly that she will ultimately flee town, freeing them all. You see, Matilda isn't just a brilliant and lovable girl. She overcomes her mother, her father and Miss Trunchbull to free herself and her whole school. She doesn't just accept her fate. She creates her own destiny. But the story of Matilda isn't just her story. It's all of our stories now. We're not all geniuses who learn to read at the age of two, much less have so much unused brain power. We learn to move things with our eyes. But there have been times when, for all of us, when we have felt unappreciated. Matilda's parents and the Trunchbull refuse to see that she's special when nothing could be more obvious and plain to us, the readers. It makes us scream with rage and indignation how blind they are to the simple, kind, extraordinary specialness of this tiny girl. We have all felt like screaming with rage when. When someone has refused to see what is good and right and special about a situation or a person or about us.

[Elsa]

Why don't the other kids like me at school? Why doesn't my teacher ever call me? When will my parents see what's really special about me, instead of just finding things to criticize?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Matilda is just an extreme example of how we all feel. And so her incredible triumph at the end is satisfying. Because it isn't just her victory. It is ours too.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow. A declaration of greatness about a girl who can move things with her mind. And Adam has moved us all with his words. Elsa. What stood out to you about Adam's declaration of greatness.

[Elsa]

Well, I love how he went through Matilda's journey of gaining her powers. And I could really envision everything when he was telling. It was almost like I was there, and it really felt like a story, which was really nice tie to Matilda.

[Molly Bloom]

Absolutely. Okay, June, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why Matilda is meh. You've got 30 seconds and your time starts now.

[June Sekhia]

Okay, so Adam talks about Matilda as a superhero, which I think is an interesting choice of words, because to me, Matilda is a supervillain. That's how Roald Dahl was actually first trying to write Matilda as a character who uses her telekinetic powers to torment her parents and teachers. And if you look at the book, the seed of that is actually still there, because as terrible as her parents are, she's essentially teaching children that it's okay to fight fire with fire.

[Molly Bloom]

Adam, anything you'd like to say in return?

[Adam Gidwitz]

If fighting cruel and stupid adults with superpowers is wrong, I don't want to be right.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, June, it is your turn. Tell us why Alice in Wonderland has such grand command.

[Queen of Hearts]

Drop the beat, ladies and gentlemen, Esteemed judge of Smashboom Best, I'd like to start with a few rhymes.

[Narrator]

Ah.

[Queen of Hearts]

Yo, catch me in the rabbit hole Dazzled by a magic show by the wonderlander Standing up with Alice. Yo, no competition Matilda's just an average show now let me introduce you to our cast of charactos. I mean, characters. Sorry I'm a bad rapper, but at least I'm not as tacky as the Mad Hatter at his tea party. Crunching on a jam platter and a teacup now listen to the glass shatter how about Tweedledum? Do I even need a punicinner then for silliness Relieving all your tedium with Tweedledee have you ever met a match? Running out of time haven't even got the Cheshire Cat A treasure stash of characters and fun jewels no dumb rules, no humdrum school, no punch pulled on punk fools like Crunchbowl Wonderland's munching on Matilda Like Lunchables Alice in Wonderland, ladies and gentlemen. Number one on top. Greatest of all time.

[Narrator]

Yeah, Scott Woo.

[Queen of Hearts]

So, look, raps aside, I like the book Matilda. It's funny, easy to read, and has one really memorable character. But Alice in Wonderland and all of its incredible characters are in another league. Why, let's spill the tea first. Alice in Wonderland is truly old school. It was written more than 150 years ago in 1865, when Abraham Lincoln was president and the height of fashion was wearing big skirts over literal steel cages. Back then, there weren't many books for kids, and the ones that did exist were often about lazy or disobedient kids being punished and learning their lesson. Enter Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Alice blew the door open for kids. Books that were pure fun. If you haven't read it, the story is truly wild. It's about a little girl named Alice who falls down a rabbit hole and enters a fantasy world called Wonderland. There she meets all sorts of rude talking animals and has to escape a bloodthirsty queen. Reading Alice in Wonderland is like watching an ultra lush IMAX movie. Enchanted mushrooms, giant blue caterpillars, croquet mallet clubs made of live flamingos. It's your wildest, weirdest dream scenarios brought to vivid life.

[Elsa]

Oh, Tiger Lily, I wish you could talk.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, of course I can talk. When there's anybody worth talking to.

[Elsa]

And can all the flowers talk?

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, the daisies are the worst of all. It's enough to make one wither, the way they go on.

[Queen of Hearts]

That's right. Alice has a conversation with a literal flower. Seriously, there are so many strange and magical attractions packed in this story. Reading it is like going to a theme park. Which makes sense, because Alice in Wonderland was one of the biggest inspirations for Walt Disney himself. When Walt was a young cartoonist just starting out, he moved to Los Angeles with only a single small suitcase. Inside was a short cartoon he'd made, inspired by, you guessed it, Alice in Wonderland. But Alice in Wonderland has inspired even more. From bands like the Beatles to movies like the Matrix, to singers like Lady Gaga and Taylor Swift, Alice has influenced generations of art, music and movies. And that's because you can interpret the story however you want. Ask 100 people what the story means and you'll get a hundred different answers. Is it a story about how kids should grow up? Or about how adults should grow down and be less serious? Is it an allegory about food? About the Queen of England, about language and logic? Yes, to all of the above. You, the reader, get to choose your own adventure. Matilda is great, but in the end, it's a pretty narrow story about the good guys being the bad ones, which doesn't leave much room for interpretation. And for that, you gotta give the edge. To Wonderland, to the queen you love, to hate, to Tweedledee and Tweedledum, to mad, silly fun and chat. Kesher cat grins. The tea has been spilt, and there's no way to put it back in the pot. No punch pulled on punk fools like Trunchbull. Wonderland's munching on Matilda like Lunchables.

[Molly Bloom]

A jam packed and rap packed argument there for Alice in Wonderland. Incredible. Elsa, what stood out to you about June's declaration of greatness?

[Elsa]

First of all, I loved the rap and how he used that to tell Alice's story. I loved how he described in great detail what Wonderland looks like. And it was awesome being able to hear how the story inspires and continues to inspire so many people, especially like Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga. That was really nice to hear.

[Molly Bloom]

Absolutely. Okay, Adam, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why thinking of Alice fills you with malice. You've got 30 seconds and your time starts. Now.

[Adam Gidwitz]

First of all, malice. Alice does not fill me with malice. I love that book. But who is Alice? She's a character who isn't really fleshed out at all. We don't really know much about her emotionally, and it's therefore really hard to connect with her. The book ends up feeling a little bit more like a series of random puzzles and weird things. But if the whole thing were wrapped by June, maybe I would change my vote to Alice. That's definitely possible.

[Molly Bloom]

And time. June, do you have anything you'd like to say in response?

[June Sekhia]

Yeah, I think that's part of its strength because it allows the reader to put themselves into Alice's shoes and experience Wonderland for themselves. So I don't think that's a weakness at all, actually.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Elsa, you've heard the arguments and it's time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?

[Elsa]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. June and Adam, how are you two feeling so far?

[Adam Gidwitz]

I was feeling great until June started to rap. I was like, I have this in the bag. And then the rapping started and I was like, forget it.

[June Sekhia]

I'm a little nervous, not gonna lie.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, it's time for a quick break. Devour a chapter of your latest book and get ready for a tea party.

[Elsa]

And we'll be right back with more smash. Boom. Best.

[Molly Bloom]

You're listening to State of Debate. Home to raging rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.

[Harry Wormwood]

Howdy ho, debaterinos. Hi, I'm Todd Douglas and I'm here with the ranch to my celery sticks.

[Molly Bloom]

Taylor Lincoln. And would you believe it? We just caught another logical fallacy.

[Harry Wormwood]

Logical fallacies are debate. No nos that make your argument so, so much weaker.

[Molly Bloom]

We just saw someone use the false dichotomy fallacy. That's when a person makes it seem like there are only two sides to an argument, even though there are many different sides.

[Harry Wormwood]

Check it out.

[Molly Bloom]

Hey, Jojo, do you want an apple? They're delicious. Mmm, no thanks. I'm good. What? You just hate apples? Uh, that's not what I said. Well, either you like them or you don't. If you don't want this apple, well, you must really not like apples. Not true, Jenny. I just had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch and I'm still, still full. Just admit you hate apples, Jojo. Um, excuse me. That's a false dichotomy. Just because I don't want an apple right now doesn't necessarily mean I don't like them. I'm just too full. And there could be lots of other reasons I don't want an apple. Like, maybe I just brush my teeth. Or I only like Granny Smiths. Or maybe I'm allergic. Oh, whoopsie Daisy. My bad. Sorry for getting ahead of myself. This should be a foulsy free friendship. No worries. Save me an apple for later. You got it.

[Harry Wormwood]

JoJo stopped that false dichotomy fallacy in its tracks.

[Molly Bloom]

Right. Things are rarely black and white. There are usually lots of different sides to a story or an argument.

[Harry Wormwood]

And in this case, many different sides to a snack. Speaking of, I've got a hankering for a Honeycrisp.

[Molly Bloom]

Ooh, make that two tickets to Crunchtown. We'll catch you next time on State of Debate.

[Narrator]

Brains on Universe is a family of.

[June Sekhia]

Podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smashboom Best.

[Narrator]

You'Ll love the other shows in our universe.

[June Sekhia]

Come on, let's explore.

[Elsa]

Its alien laundry day.

[Molly Bloom]

While I wash my nose mufflers and Tummy Togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. How about Forever Ago, my favorite history podcast? Whoa.

[Elsa]

I was not expecting that to work. Or for it to sound this good.

[Molly Bloom]

That's the DJ Dolo technique. When I say pizza, you say bagel. Pizza. Zorp signal down. Stay right there. Tummy Togas.

[Elsa]

Must find Forever Ago.

[Molly Bloom]

Now.

[Narrator]

Listen to Forever Ago. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Harry Wormwood]

Smash.

[Narrator]

Boom. Best.

[Molly Bloom]

You're listening to Smashboom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom, and I'm Your judge, Elsa. And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this playful debate idea from Rory.

[Elsa]

My name is Rory, and I'm from Pella, Iowa. My debate idea is Slinky's versus Slap Bracelets. Both bouncy, delightful, and nostalgic as heck.

[Molly Bloom]

We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Rory thinks should win.

[Elsa]

And now it's back to our debate. Matilda versus Alice in Wonderland.

[Molly Bloom]

That's right. And it's time for round two. The micro round. For the micro round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Adam and June, the prompt was batty Reputation. In this challenge, a villain from each side needs to clear their reputation. They want to set the record straight about how they're really not that bad. Will they redeem them? It's up to Elsa to decide. Adam went first last time, so, June, you're up. Do your best to clear the reputation of a baddie from Alice in Wonderland.

[Narrator]

Order.

[Queen of Hearts]

Order in the court. We will now hear the arguments of the defendant.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank you, good sir. I, the Queen of Hearts, rightful sovereign of Wonderland, am accused of being a tyrant. While it's true I have a flair for ruthless rhetoric, I am, above all, a community builder. Think of how disconnected we all live from each other. The caterpillar on its mushroom. The Cheshire cat in its tree. The Mad Hatter at his sad little tea party in the woods. Ohohu. Where would we be without my croquet games to bring us together, Drifting apart, wrapped up in our own selfish little lives?

[Queen of Hearts]

And what do you say to the accusation that you randomly sentence people to death?

[Molly Bloom]

Good sir, I'd like to point to your use of the word sentence as there is a great difference between a death sentence and a death doing. One is a sentence and therefore just said, while the other is an action and therefore done. And if you consult the record, you will see that I have never done any death.

[Queen of Hearts]

That can't be right. By Jove. Her rulings are never enforced.

[Molly Bloom]

Action, that is. The lack of it, speaks louder than words.

[Queen of Hearts]

I am afraid the defendant is right. The Queen of Hearts is innocent.

[Molly Bloom]

Innocent? Are you calling me naive?

[Narrator]

Order.

[Queen of Hearts]

Order in the court.

[Molly Bloom]

You dare command the Queen? Off with your head. Wow, a shocking courtroom twist there. All right, Adam, it is your turn. Let's hear from a baddie in the world of Matilda.

[Harry Wormwood]

Well, it's gonna be another great day of swindling suckers out of their money. I mean, selling quality used cars for fair prices. Oh, Harry Wormwood. You're cleverer than the whole lot of them put together, aren't you, you handsome devil. Right. Now, where's that hair oil? Ah, here it is. Work it in with your fingertips, old boy. Make those black locks shine. Yes, you're handsome and clever and rich and a very good father too. So why won't that nasty little pimple Matilda do as you say? Blast it. You tear up one of her library books and she acts like you committed a crime. You're just looking out for what's best for her. No one reads anymore. Watch more telly, that's what I say. And she tried to shame you for playing a few harmless tricks on your customers. How naive can she be? Everyone cheats. And if they don't, they're getting cheated. It's a dog eat dog world. And you're the biggest, toughest, handsomest dog out there, old boy. Ugh. And all the thinking Matilda does. Who wants a kid who thinks? You know what they say about people who think too much? They've got their heads up there.

[Molly Bloom]

Ah.

[Harry Wormwood]

What's wrong with my hair?

[Narrator]

Oh, my beautiful hair.

[Harry Wormwood]

It's platinum blond. Matilda. Matilda is behind this? You bet your bottom dollar. Matilda. Matilda.

[Molly Bloom]

Ah, poor Mr. Wormwood. Can't get through his daily ablutions without pranks. Poor guy. Okay, Elsa, what did you like about Adam and June's micro rounds for Junes?

[Elsa]

I loved how the Queen acted and how she claimed that she brought people together. And then for Addams, I loved how Mr. Wormwood was just talking to himself and kind of hyping himself up in a way. Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny.

[Molly Bloom]

He's doing his. What do they call it?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Like his morning. His. Affirmations.

[Molly Bloom]

Affirmations? Yes, he's doing salient affirmations into the mirror. All right, please award a point, but don't tell us who it's going to. Have you made your decision?

[Elsa]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round. The Super Stealthy Sneak Attack. This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's Sneak Attack is called by any other name. Let's say your story didn't have a name or that Matilda and Alice in Wonderland were not. Options for titles, we want you to come up with three alternative titles for your side. For example, if your challenge was for the movie Frozen, your alternative title might be Snow Sisters or Winter's Chilling Embrace or Don't Get Engaged to a sketchy prince you met at a party. Does all of this make Sense.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yes.

[Narrator]

Yep.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, so we're gonna start with Adam, and we will take turns going back and forth. So, Adam, let's hear your first alternate title for Matilda.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Matilda Wormwood's Infinite Guide to the Best Pranks of All Time.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. All right, June, it is your turn. Let's hear your first alternate title for Alice in Wonderland.

[June Sekhia]

Super Color Wonderworld.

[Molly Bloom]

Nice. Love it. All right, Adam, your second alternative title please.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The Tragedy of the Trunchbull.

[Molly Bloom]

Mmm. Another. Is that like a wicked type tale where we are rehabbed?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah, we get her side of it.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah. All right, June, your turn again. Let's hear your second alternative title for Alice in Wonderland.

[June Sekhia]

Alice and the Queen who Set off with Her Head.

[Molly Bloom]

Love it. Very descriptive. Okay, Adam, let's hear your final title for Matilda.

[Narrator]

Power Eyeballs.

[Adam Gidwitz]

That's a number one bestseller right there. Come on.

[Molly Bloom]

Number one. How could you not want to pick up that book? Okay, June, what is your last alternative title for Alice in Wonderland?

[June Sekhia]

Annoying Talking Animals Tour.

[Molly Bloom]

Did you say Annoying Talking Animals Tour?

[June Sekhia]

Yeah. A colon. A tour.

[Molly Bloom]

Wonderful. Again, another book that I would not be able to pass up. Okay, Elsa, please think about these excellent alternative titles and think about which side impressed you the most. And Please award your 4th point. Have you made your decision?

[Elsa]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow. Okay, then. It's time for our final round. The final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. June, let's hear your six words for making people see the wonder of Alice in Wonderland.

[June Sekhia]

Wonder filled seed of million worlds.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, very nice. All right, Adam, it's your turn. Please give us six words on the.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Majesty of Matilda Girl Genius, Fighting, stupidity and cruelty.

[Molly Bloom]

Hmm. Very nice. All right, Elsa, it is time to award a final point for this final six. Are you ready to crown one team the smashboom best?

[Elsa]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Drumroll, please. And the winner is.

[Elsa]

Matilda.

[Narrator]

No.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Woohoo.

[Narrator]

No.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Thank you.

[Molly Bloom]

Elsa, what was the moment that really decided it? What was your favorite part?

[Elsa]

Ooh, I think the micro round, that was really it for me. I thought it was really funny.

[Adam Gidwitz]

It was all about hearing Mr. Wormwood brush his teeth.

[Narrator]

Right.

[Molly Bloom]

That's really.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The depiction of that. Whoever. The fact that you guys actually found Mr. Wormwood and got him to brush his teeth into a mic was really unbelievable. He nailed it.

[Molly Bloom]

He didn't have a lot going on, so he helped us out.

[Adam Gidwitz]

June is not only an incredible actor, but also an incredible researcher. I thought I knew about Alice in Wonderland and I learned a lot more from. From his declaration of greatness so it was an amazing job.

[June Sekhia]

Thank you. So Adam going in, I was already so afraid. Cause I listened to his previous smashboom best debates and he did not disappoint. He came with so many like witty angles on what made Matilda so great. And I just like, I could tell how much he loved the book. It came through in his declaration of greatness. Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, excellent work to both of you. That is it for today's debate battle. Elsa crowned Matilda the Smashboom Bast. But what about you?

[Elsa]

Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.

[Molly Bloom]

Smash Boomvest is brought to you by Brainson and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom, Anna Wegel and Aron Woldeselassi. We had engineering help from Derek Ramirez and Gary O'Keefe with Sound Design by Anna Weigel. Our editors are Shaila Farzan and Sandon Totten with fact checking by Rebecca Randy. And we had production help from the rest of the Brains on Universe team. Rosie Dupont, Rachel Breese, Anna Goldfield, Nico Gonzalez Whistler, Ruby Guthrie, Lauren Humpert, Joshua Wright, Rebecca Rand and Mark Sanchez. Our executive producer is Beth Perlman and the APM Studio's executives in charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Foyer worker Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Adam, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Elsa, for inspiring me from the very beginning with her love of Matilda.

[Molly Bloom]

Ooh, thank you so nice. And how about you, June? Any special shout outs?

[June Sekhia]

I'm gonna shout out my mom, my sister, my dad, just cause I not often on radio. And then Elsa for having such a crazy life story with playing both of those characters like probably the best person on the planet to judge this debate. And then Somin, my mentor who got me on. I tried to avenge you Somin and beat Adam, but I could not cut the mustard in the end. And I'm sorry.

[Molly Bloom]

And how about you, Elsa? Any special thanks or shout outs?

[Elsa]

Well, both of you, you both did an amazing job. My parents and all my friends.

[Narrator]

That's cool.

[Molly Bloom]

Before we go, let's check in and see who Rory thinks should win the Slinkies versus Slap Bracelets debate.

[Elsa]

I think Slinkys would win because they have more than one purpose and they are more fun to play with. Smashboom Best is a non profit public radio program.

[Molly Bloom]

If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knockdown, drag out debate head to smashboom.org contact and drop us a line. And while you're at it, join Smarty Pass for bonus episodes and ad free versions of all four shows in the Brains on universe. We'll be back with a new smashboom Best Debate Battle next week. Hamsters versus Goldfish. Bye.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Keep reading.

[Narrator]

Bye, guys.

[Molly Bloom]

Ta ta. Through the test.

[Narrator]

The Smash. Better than the rest. It's smash.

[Molly Bloom]

The West.

[Narrator]

It's smash.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Nailed it. No notes.

[June Sekhia]

That's the cherry on top.

[Molly Bloom]

Nailed it.