Pancakes vs. Waffles

Summary

Smash Boom Best: Pancakes vs. Waffles

Podcast: Smash Boom Best (Brains On Universe)
Episode Air Date: March 2, 2023
Host: Molly Bloom
Debaters: Marcel Malachibu (Pancakes), Nora McInerney (Waffles)
Judge: Elise (Philadelphia)

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Episode Overview

This energetic debate episode pits two beloved breakfast staples—pancakes and waffles—against each other in a fact-filled, fun, and family-friendly showdown. Debaters Marcel Malachibu and Nora McInerney go head-to-head to prove why their chosen morning treat reigns supreme, with Elise, a baking enthusiast from Philadelphia, serving as the judge. The episode features personal stories, history, pop culture, and even an improv rap battle, all designed to teach kids (and families) the art of debate, while still having a blast.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introductions & Debate Rules

• [00:09] Molly Bloom introduces the episode and the contenders: pancakes (represented by Marcel) and waffles (by Nora).
• [01:09] Elise, the judge, shares her brownie-baking skills and love for her turtle, Turtleito—a cute moment for listeners.
• [02:22] The debate format is outlined: Declaration of Greatness, Rebuttal, Micro Round (creative challenge), Sneak Attack (improv challenge), and the Final Six (six-word summation).

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2. Declaration of Greatness

Pancakes — Marcel Malachibu

• Family Bonding & Simplicity
  • [03:43] Marcel shares that pancakes bring families together, describing sweet moments making pancakes with his daughter, Imani.

    “A family that cooks together stays together.” (Marcel, 03:43)

  • Pancakes require basic ingredients—no special equipment (not even a spatula, a fork will do).
• Pancakes Across the World
  • [04:53] Pancakes are global ambassadors: from French crêpes and Somali lahoh to Chinese scallion pancakes and Nepalese chatamari.
• Historical Dominance
  • [05:14] Pancakes predate waffles by millennia: earliest mention in Greek poetry 2,500+ years ago; evidence suggests humans made pancakes 30,000 years ago.

    “Pancakes are more mature than waffles... more sophisticated because they've had way more time to have their recipe refined and perfected.” (Marcel, 06:19)

• Pancake Art
  • [06:55] Pancake art highlighted: creative, fun, accessible (interview with pancake artist Jenny Price).

    “The fun is—that’s the heart of it. It’s just really fun.” (Jenny Price, 08:07)

  • There's no such thing as “waffle art.”
• Imani’s Verdict
  • [08:51] Imani’s cute cameo: “Waffles ache it yummy.”
• Judge's Thoughts
  • [09:20] Elise loves the focus on family and tradition: “It could definitely be fun for families and good to teach people how to cook and especially kids like myself.”

Waffles — Nora McInerney

• Waffle Frolics & Social Connection
  • [10:45] Waffle parties started in America in the 1700s, called “Waffle Frolics,” even with satin waffle-shaped invitations.

    “People would get all dressed up and take turns making their own waffles and choosing their own toppings.” (Nora, 11:29)

• Ease & Consistency
  • [11:45] Waffles require a waffle iron but yield perfect, consistent results—just pour, close, and dance while it cooks.

    “Waffles are easier to make and harder to mess up. Even a bad waffle is good.” (Nora, 12:50)

• Texture & Versatility
  • [13:00] Their crisp, grid pattern holds toppings, and stacked toppings won’t collapse the waffle (unlike pancakes).

    “Much like Keanu Reeves, waffles have integrity.” (Nora, 13:25)

  • Waffles inspire “waffle cones,” “waffle fries,” “waffle knit sweaters,” and even the Nike “waffle trainer” (the sole’s grip was inspired by a waffle iron).

    “Waffles are style icons... Even the first Nike sneakers were inspired by a waffle iron.” (Nora, 14:17)

• Pop Culture & Family Tradition
  • [14:50] Iconic references: Leslie Knope (Parks and Rec), Eleven (Stranger Things). Nora’s family does “Waffle Sundays.”
• Judge's Thoughts
  • [15:24] Elise loved the Nike connection and the social aspects: “People getting dressed up and coming together... I love that notion.”

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3. Rebuttals

• [09:55] Nora on Pancakes:
  • Honors pancake history but touts waffles as “something new, something exciting, something less soggy.”

    “Just eight seconds of panicking and of a dog scratching at the door.” (Nora, 10:12)

• [16:06] Marcel on Waffles:
  • Reminds that pancake races go back to 1445, older than waffle parties. Argues pancakes are easier, not harder, to cook.

    “Don't get me started. I got so many points.” (Marcel, 16:41)

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4. Micro Round — Conspiracy for Good

A creative segment where each side invents a wacky conspiracy crediting their food with a hidden (awesome) impact on society:

• [21:43] Waffles “Invented Pockets” (Nora)
  • Waffles responsible for real-world pockets in pants, pouches, and even kangaroo pouches.

    “They're like the cargo pants of foods. Cool, stylish, useful, endlessly useful.” (Nora, 22:04)

• [23:34] Pancakes’ Nanobot Holograms (Marcel)
  • Pancakes deploy nanobots to make themselves appear as other breakfast foods so people are always secretly eating pancakes—and experiencing joy.

    “Pancakes are pure edible happiness.” (Marcel, 24:41)

• [25:09] Judge Elise’s Take:
  • Loved the pocket angle for waffles, but was enchanted by “high tech” pancakes.

    “That is really, really cool. The nanobots, I mean, that's just in another universe.” (Elise, 25:37)

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5. Sneak Attack — Slow Motion Rap Battle

Each team improvises rhyming couplets about their side, riffing off the other's rhyme:

• [27:10] Marcel starts:
  • “Pancakes are fire, the food of desire. Delicious. Heavenly. Made to inspire.”
• [27:48] Nora (rhyming “wire”):
  • “Wire is a word that rhymes with what Marcel said. If I couldn't eat waffles, I'd rather be dead.”
• [28:01] Marcel (rhyming “dead”):
  • “Bred from the greatness of cultures of past. Pancakes come first and waffles come last.”
• [28:22] Nora (rhyming “last”):
  • “Faster than pancakes. And they hold their shape. Pancakes are fine. Waffles are great.”
• [28:37] Marcel (rhyming “great”):
  • “Late to the party. Waffles can't win. Pancakes are early. The suspense, they destroy them. Again.”
• [29:06] Nora (rhyming “again”):
  • “Begin with breakfast, the best meal of the day. A big plate of waffles is the only way.”

Judge [29:18] Elise: “Oh, wow... Quite impressive!”

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6. Final Six — Six Words to Summarize

• [29:50] Waffles (Nora):

  “Everything pancakes have, but with pockets.”

• [30:05] Pancakes (Marcel):

  “The world falls apart. Pancakes remain.”

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7. Results & Notable Moments

• [30:45] Winner: Pancakes (by narrow 3–2 margin)
• [30:55] Marcel (joyfully): “Put the cake in the pan. Put the cake in the pan!”
• [31:41] Both debaters compliment each other’s performances and joke about the debate intensity and friendship.

  “This loss does not feel quite as painful as the last one... because Marcel and I are friends, he knows in his heart that he's wrong.” (Nora, 31:17) “You made such good points that tonight we're having pancakes for dinner.” (Nora, 32:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Much like Keanu Reeves, waffles have integrity.” (Nora, 13:25)
• “The fun is—that’s the heart of it. It’s just really fun.” (Jenny Price, 08:07)
• “Pancakes come first and waffles come last.” (Marcel, 28:12, Rap Battle)
• “Everything pancakes have, but with pockets.” (Nora, 29:50, Final Six)
• “The world falls apart. Pancakes remain.” (Marcel, 30:05, Final Six)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:09] Episode intro & debate setup
• [03:43] Pancake declaration of greatness (Marcel & Imani)
• [10:45] Waffle declaration of greatness (Nora)
• [09:55 & 16:06] Rebuttals
• [21:43] Micro round (Waffles as origin of pockets; Pancake nanobot conspiracy)
• [27:10] Sneak Attack: Slow Motion Rap Battle
• [29:44] Final Six — Six-word summaries
• [30:45] Winner announced & playful reflections

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Episode Tone & Style

Playful, clever, educational, and vibrant. Both debaters employ wit, personal stories, and family-inclusive humor. The host and judge maintain a conversational, encouraging atmosphere filled with puns, jokes, and laughter, making the debate engaging for both kids and adults.

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Summary Table

| Segment | Speaker(s) | Key Focus | Timestamp | |-------------------------|----------------------|--------------------------------------|--------------| | Introduction | Molly, Elise, Debaters| Debate format, intros | 00:09–03:26 | | Pancakes’ Argument | Marcel & Imani | Tradition, history, art, simplicity | 03:43–09:00 | | Waffles’ Argument | Nora | Waffle frolics, texture, pop culture | 10:45–15:13 | | Rebuttals | Nora, Marcel | Debunking, humor | 09:55/16:06 | | Micro Round | Both | Creative conspiracy theories | 21:43–25:04 | | Sneak Attack (Rap) | Both | Rhyming improv battle | 27:10–29:16 | | Final Six | Both | Punchy 6-word summaries | 29:44–30:09 | | Winner & Closing | All | Reflections, winner, friendships | 30:45–32:29 |

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Final Verdict:
Elise crowns pancakes the narrow winner—citing the fun, history, and versatility, but it’s clear both foods, and both debaters, win hearts in this spirited breakfast battle.

Transcript

[Nora McInerney]

From the brains behind brains on, it's.

[Elise]

Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a tasty way to start your day. In one corner, we've got the treat that got Paul Bunyan on his feet versus the greatest yum of Belgium. Heat up your griddles and grab your batter. It's pancakes versus waffles. We've got friend of the show Marcel Malachibu here to sing the praises of pancakes.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Let's go put the cake in the pan.

[Molly Bloom]

And another good pal of the podcast, it's Nora McInerney ready to give it her all for team Waffles.

[Nora McInerney]

That's right. There's no waffling here. When I talk about the fact that waffles are better than pancakes. That worked better when I typed it out than when I said it out loud.

[Molly Bloom]

And here to judge it all is Elise from Philadelphia. Elise loves baking brownies. And of course, her turtle, Turtleito.

[Elise]

Hey, how you guys doing? I'm ready to judge this thing. Let's get it on.

[Carla]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Elise, please tell us a little bit about turtleito.

[Elise]

So turtleito is my turtle. He is my pride and joy. I mean, I just love him. He's just a little thing. I want to pack him in my pocket, take him everywhere. He is just so great.

[Molly Bloom]

Can you describe what turtleitl looks like?

[Elise]

He is a red eared slider turtle. Big shell, green, brown and red ear flaps. He's actually pretty cute.

[Molly Bloom]

Do you have any words of wisdom for prospective turtle owners out there?

[Elise]

Um, really take care of your turtles. They are really pretty. Pretty big stinkers. So make sure their tank is clean.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, so what does turtleito do to make him a stinker?

[Elise]

He poops all over the place. One time he pooped on me turtle. I know. Turtleito is right. That's why he's a stinker. Cause he makes a lot of. Makes a lot of bombs.

[Molly Bloom]

But he's adorable anyway. He is, and we love him very much. Well, will Elise choose waffles or will she lego her eggo for some tasty pancakes? Only she can tell. Elise, are you ready?

[Elise]

I am.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, before we get into this debate, it's time to review the rules of the game. Round one is the declaration of greatness, where our debaters present fact filled arguments in favor of their side. And they each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. Then we've got the micro round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. Round three is the sneak attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Our judge, Elise, will award two points in the first round, one for her favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration she liked best. She'll award one point in each round after that, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. Okay, Nora, Marcel and Elise, are you ready?

[Elise]

Oh, yes.

[Nora McInerney]

Oh, I'm ready.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Let's go.

[Molly Bloom]

Awesome. Then it's time for the declaration of greatness. We flipped a coin and Marcel, you're up first. Tell us why pancakes make us IHOP for joy.

[Marcel Malachibu]

I believe that a family that cooks together stays together. So once a month, my daughter Imani and I hang out and make pancakes. Okay, Amani, it's time to mix it up. You ready?

[Molly Bloom]

Mix it up.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Mix it up. Mix it up, little dog. Mix it up. Wow. You see how easy this is, Mommy?

[Molly Bloom]

What?

[Marcel Malachibu]

Yeah, right. All you do is just put a starch, a liquid, and you can add oil if you want. Okay, Monty, now that we have our batter, should we put something in it? Should we put. Well, I guess we can't put chocolate chips in the whole thing because mommy doesn't like it. But you know what? Pancakes are so easy to make. You can just put the chocolate chips in the pancakes while they're on the stove. I don't think you can do that while a waffle iron is cooking. A waffle. Right, Moni?

[Molly Bloom]

I can say any chicken man cake and you welcome.

[Marcel Malachibu]

We make pancakes because they're delicious and simple to make. And unlike waffles, they don't require any kind of special equipment. All you need is a hot surface, a liquid and a starch and something to flip them with, which could literally just be a fork. And that simplicity is part of why pancakes are eaten all over the world. Round flat cakes like pancakes really are the food ambassadors of planet Earth. Here in North America, we just call them pancakes or flapjacks, but there are all kinds, kinds of them. You've got crepes from France, you've got Laha that people eat in Somalia and Yemen. In China, a lot of people eat scallion pancakes and chatamari in Nepal. Pancakes are revered in so many different countries, and they don't even need a passport to travel. And if you're wondering how pancakes became so popular in so many different places, it's because they've been around for so much longer than waffles. Pancakes are really old. The earliest recorded mentions of pancakes are from more than 2,500 years ago in Greek poetry. The Greeks called these early pancakes taganias, which comes from a word that means frying pan. Archaeologists have even found evidence that our prehistoric ancestors made pancakes 30,000 years ago. But waffles, waffles didn't come along till just over a thousand years ago. Pancakes are more mature than waffles. They're more sophisticated because they've had way more time to have their recipe refined and perfected.

[Nora McInerney]

Hey, pancake, you want to hear the.

[Elise]

Most annoying sound in the world?

[Molly Bloom]

Uh, no thanks. Waffle. I'm just trying to read up on some new innovations in pancake science.

[Nora McInerney]

And okay, check this out.

[Molly Bloom]

Waffle.

[Marcel Malachibu]

That's the actual sound of a waffle iron farting. Because they do that. Meanwhile, instead of a fart, you can make pancake art. That's right. You can make modern masterpieces with pancake batter. You just use the batter to draw on the griddle and create cool looking pancakes. To aid me in my quest to learn more about pancake art, I got to talk to pancake artist Jenny Price.

[Jenny Price]

I have tried pretty much every box mix out and they all work in some way, shape or form. So you can have fun with pretty much any boxed mix out there. I've even done my own homemade recipes and it always works.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Jenny uses these plastic squirt bottles to make her pancake art, but I didn't have any. So I asked her what I could use that I might already have around my house.

[Jenny Price]

You could basically start with a bag, snip off the end, draw with it.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Jenny says her favorite thing to make are bunny shaped pancakes. But the options are endless with pancake art. And you don't need anything expensive or fancy to start. Great. But I still was wondering, what if? I'm new to pancake art.

[Jenny Price]

My first pancakes were terrible. They looked awful. But you know, it was so fun. And that's the point of it. And so I just kept at it and a couple times a week I'd do pancake art and my kids did pancake art. And you know, you get better over Time. But the fun is. That's the heart of it. It's just really fun.

[Marcel Malachibu]

I learned so much from Jenny about pancake art, and I grew a deep appreciation for the art form. But at the end of our talk, it had me thinking, where are all the down to earth waffle artists that inspire others and support their communities like Jenny does?

[Jenny Price]

I have never met a waffle artist yet. Not yet.

[Marcel Malachibu]

And what does Imani think about waffles?

[Molly Bloom]

Waffles. Ache it yummy.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Case closed.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow, a very well rounded argument there, featuring the cutest debate partner of all time.

[Nora McInerney]

Yeah, I. I didn't know. I didn't know I was gonna. I didn't know I was facing off against two opponents. Okay, I didn't know that.

[Molly Bloom]

Sorry. Sorry we didn't warn you. Elise, what did you think about Marcel's declaration? What stood out to you?

[Elise]

I thought it was great. I mean, what stood out to me was definitely the time period, because there was a long tradition with the time and how they were making it over and over, and you could do it so many different ways. And then another thing that I saw was it could definitely be fun for families and good to teach people how to cook and especially kids like myself.

[Molly Bloom]

Very good. All right, well, Nora, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to pancake Marcel's argument. And your time starts now. Okay.

[Nora McInerney]

I respect that pancakes are old, that they're ancient, that they are a respected food source. And we can appreciate that. We can appreciate that rich history and make way for something new, something exciting, something less soggy. And that something is waffles. Oh, do I? Okay, honestly, just eight seconds of panicking and of a dog scratching at the door.

[Molly Bloom]

And time. Nicely done. You were so concise.

[Nora McInerney]

I didn't even need the whole 30 seconds.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, brevity. Brevity is the soul of wit. All right, Nora, tell us why waffles are the real breakfast of champions.

[Nora McInerney]

Listen up. Waffles are crispy, golden syrup saucers that have been bringing people together for generations. In fact, this delightful and oh so delicious breakfast food is so beloved that people used to have entire waffle themed parties beginning in the mid-1700s. That's a long time ago. Americans started hosting special parties called Waffle Frolics. Some hosts even made invitations out of satin that looked like waffles. Scorch marks and everything.

[Q]

You are cordially invited to a waffle frolic. Be there or be a griddle square.

[Molly Bloom]

Ooh, I must put on my frolicking finest. It's time to waffle.

[Nora McInerney]

People would get all dressed up and take turns making their own waffles and choosing their own toppings. I think I'll put some honey on my waffles.

[Q]

And this little lad likes berries and cream.

[Nora McInerney]

And you know why waffles are so fun to make together? Because they're easier than pancakes. Sure, you need a waffle iron, but the rest is super simple. You just pour in the batter, close the lid, have a little kitchen dance party, pop the lid open, and boom. A perfect waffle every time. Pancakes, on the other hand. Have you ever made them? It's so much work. First, you have to get the griddle temperature just right. And I mean just right.

[Elise]

Ah, too hot.

[Nora McInerney]

And even if you manage to get an okay temperature, you can't just pour on the batter and walk away. Absolutely not. No, no, no. No way. No dance breaks allowed. No fun allowed. Instead, you have to watch the griddle like a hawk, waiting an eternity for just one side to cook. And when you finally work up enough confidence to flip, you better hope that batter doesn't go flying everywhere.

[Elise]

Here we go.

[Molly Bloom]

Hook. Ugh.

[Nora McInerney]

For the love of bisquick, Waffles are easier to make and harder to mess up. Even a bad waffle is good. And that's because waffles have superior texture. Their golden, crispy grids are basically built in cups for syrup and toppings. And waffles texture isn't just fun. It's practical. Much like Keanu Reeves, waffles have integrity. You can load them up with all kinds of toppings. Whipped cream, strawberries, chocolate chips, syrup, fried chicken, you name it. The waffle will not collapse. The waffle will hold. The waffle has the strength for all of this. There's a reason the Choco Taco is wrapped in a waffle. Plus, they're portable. That's why you'll find people selling them all over the world. From crispy ones in the streets of Brussels, Belgium, to green pandan waffles in the markets of Vietnam. Waffles texture is so iconic, you see it everywhere. There are waffle cones, waffle fries, sweaters with a waffle knit. The coziest fabric out there. Even the first Nike sneakers were inspired by a waffle iron. One of Nike's founders, coach Bill Bowerman, was making breakfast with his wife one day when he realized, hmm, hey, what.

[Todd Douglas]

If she shoes had a waffle texture on the bottom? They'd be perfect for gripping the track.

[Molly Bloom]

Somebody get me a pen.

[Nora McInerney]

And just like that, the Nike waffle trainer was born. Waffles aren't just style icons. They're in TV and movies, too. From Parks and Rec's leslie knob. To 11 from Stranger Things, who's obsessed with and arguably powered by Eggo waffles. For my family, waffles are a love language. When my husband and I got married, we both already had kids. We were trying to merge two families, and so we started a new tradition. Waffle Sundays. Every Sunday, we crowd into the kitchen to make a big batch of waffles. The kids mix the batter in a big bowl, My husband pours it into the iron, and then we eat. These crispy little golden discs are a way to show we care about each other.

[Molly Bloom]

Mom, come on. It's time for waffles. Mom, come make us waffles.

[Nora McInerney]

I gotta go. But in conclusion, waffles are spectacular. Pancakes are a disaster.

[Molly Bloom]

Bye. An easy, breezy declaration for waffles. Elise, tell us what stood out to you about Nora's argument.

[Elise]

I think something that really stood out to me was the Nike founder and how he had a design based on a waffle that was really cool. And I love me some Nike. So that was. And I also thought that people getting dressed up and coming together, I just love that notion. So I think that that was an awesome fact. How they come together and eat toppings, berries and cream, that's one of my favorites. So that was pretty cool. Thank you, waffles.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank you, waffles. All right, Marcel, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to put the awful in waffle, and your time starts now.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Putting the awful in waffle is pretty easy for me. Let's start with the first point. Pancake or waffle parties are nice, but those started, I believe you said, in the 1700s, when there was something called a pancake race. Okay. Starting in 1445. And people have been carrying that on flipping pancakes and cast iron pans while racing for centuries. Also, you mentioned that they're easier for people to cook. Well, I would disagree, but I would say, more importantly, Don't let me. Don't get me started. I got so many points.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Elise, it is time to award some points. Give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best, and then one point to the most awesome rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic to die for? Both points could go to the same debater, or each debater could get one of them. Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?

[Elise]

I think I have.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. Nora and Marcel, how are you two feeling so far?

[Nora McInerney]

I'm literally sweating. I can't explain the stress that I'm under right now. Yeah, this is. I thought we were gonna have fun today. I didn't know that I was.

[Molly Bloom]

Marshalle. Are you also sweating?

[Marcel Malachibu]

I'm sweating a little bit. I drank too much coffee this morning and I wanted to get those points out so badly. Okay, my rebuttals.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, all this talk of food has made me hungry, so while I grab a quick snack, I'm gonna sit back and relax.

[Elise]

And we'll be right back with more stuff. Smashboom Best.

[Nora McInerney]

You're watching State of Debate. Home to rage and rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Hey, debate heads. I'm Taylor Lincoln.

[Todd Douglas]

And I'm Todd Douglas.

[Taylor Lincoln]

And we are here to report on logical fallacies, the nemesis of a good argument. These are the flaws in logic or reasoning of one side of a debate.

[Todd Douglas]

Today's fallacy is the appeal to ignorance. That's when you argue something must be true because there's no evidence against it.

[Taylor Lincoln]

You gotta watch out. They can be sneaky. And they can happen at any moment, even at the dinner table.

[Molly Bloom]

Welcome to Mama Betty's spaghetti table for two.

[Carla]

Yes, please. Carla, you are going to love this place. Their bolognese is out of this world. And their ravioli are so cheesy. Oh, and the garlic bread. So buttery, so garlicky.

[Nora McInerney]

Ooh, yes, please. With extra garlic. It keeps diamondback rattlesnakes away. They hate garlic.

[Carla]

Wait, Snakes. Garlicators. That's not true.

[Molly Bloom]

Really?

[Nora McInerney]

Show me a snake that likes garlicky pasta. Or one with garlic breath even. I'll wait.

[Molly Bloom]

I.

[Carla]

Hold on. Just because I can't show you a garlic loving snake doesn't mean garlic keeps them away.

[Nora McInerney]

Or does it?

[Carla]

No, it doesn't.

[Todd Douglas]

Holy ravioli, Taylor. That argument is pretty weak sauce.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Yeah, just because Gabby doesn't have proof that snakes love garlic doesn't mean it'll scare them off.

[Todd Douglas]

Carla's using the absence of proof to make a claim.

[Taylor Lincoln]

And you know what I always say? No proof, no argument.

[Todd Douglas]

Tay Tay with the truth bomb. And you know who does love garlic? This guy. I'm gonna go order some pizza and garlic bread. You want in?

[Taylor Lincoln]

Extra cheese, please. And we'll see you next time on.

[Todd Douglas]

Stay up to Beat.

[Molly Bloom]

Smash.

[Nora McInerney]

Smashboom Best.

[Molly Bloom]

You're listening to smashboom Best.

[Elise]

I'm your host, Mollie Bloom, and I'm your judge Elise.

[Molly Bloom]

And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this cheesy debate idea from Mila. My debate idea is Doritos versus Cheetos.

[Elise]

Now that's a snack smackdown I wanna see.

[Molly Bloom]

We'll check back with Mila at the end of this episode to see which side she thinks should win.

[Elise]

And now it's back to today's debate. Pancakes and waffles.

[Molly Bloom]

That's right. And it's time for round two, the micro round. Today's micro round challenge is called Conspiracy for Good. A conspiracy theory is something that rejects the truth in favor of a wild idea that doesn't have proof. We don't encourage conspiracy theories here on Smashboom Fest because they're generally full of logical fallacies. But we thought it would be humorous to imagine that waffles and pancakes are secretly responsible for some awesomeness in the world. Nora and Marcel, pull your unwilling friend aside and tell them your wild idea. Marcel went first last time. So, Nora, you're up. Tell us about the secret, delicious agenda behind waffles. Psst.

[Nora McInerney]

Hey. Hey, you.

[Unknown (Friend of Nora)]

Nora, is that you? Why are you hiding in my azaleas?

[Nora McInerney]

How long have you.

[Molly Bloom]

Shh, shh.

[Nora McInerney]

That doesn't matter. Want to know a secret?

[Molly Bloom]

Uh.

[Unknown (Friend of Nora)]

You're getting really close to my face.

[Nora McInerney]

Waffles invented pockets.

[Unknown (Friend of Nora)]

Waffles invented pockets. I thought Polly Pocket invented pockets.

[Nora McInerney]

Completely understandable, but no. Waffles invented pockets. Besides being the best breakfast food out there, they're behind every pocket ever made. It makes total sense, because, after all, they're like the cargo pants of foods. Cool, stylish, useful, endlessly useful.

[Unknown (Friend of Nora)]

Cargo pants are cool?

[Nora McInerney]

Uh, yeah. Ask Zendaya.

[Unknown (Friend of Nora)]

I do trust Zendaya. She's a national treasure. But you're saying that waffles are responsible for pockets?

[Nora McInerney]

Now you're getting it. Waffles are the great equalizer, making sure everyone, no matter their size, age, or gender, has excellent deep pockets. Any pocket you could possibly think of a waffle made it happen. Including your jeans.

[Unknown (Friend of Nora)]

I do like these pockets. They're actually big enough to fit my phone. Because for so long, it seemed like pockets were barely big enough for a Tic Tac.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Or worse.

[Nora McInerney]

They were fake. I know. Thank goodness for waffles, right?

[Unknown (Friend of Nora)]

So waffles invented every pocket, Even the awesome hidden ones inside your jacket?

[Nora McInerney]

Yeah.

[Unknown (Friend of Nora)]

The cute front pocket on overalls.

[Nora McInerney]

Correct. Pocket doors, pita pockets, kangaroo pouches. All the work of a waffle.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Wow.

[Unknown (Friend of Nora)]

Just when you think waffles couldn't get any more impressive.

[Nora McInerney]

Waffles. The humanitarians of the millennium and the last millennium of all time.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow. Thank you, waffles. I love pockets. Marcel, now it's your turn to talk about the hidden plot of pancakes.

[Q]

Not even gonna lie, bro. This oatmeal is fire. Why are they so much better than I remember, man?

[Marcel Malachibu]

That's not oatmeal. Those are pancakes.

[Q]

What are you talking about?

[Marcel Malachibu]

Alright, listen, listen. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. See, for the past few years, pancakes have secretly invented and deployed a special type of nanobots that cast holographic projections over pancakes to make them look like other breakfast foods. So when you ate that oatmeal this morning, you weren't really eating oatmeal anymore. It was actually pancakes in disguise.

[Q]

What? That's ridiculous. Why would pancakes do such a thing? And how can they create enough nanobots to cover the whole world?

[Marcel Malachibu]

They're self replicating nanobots, Q. And it's because the pancake has been under attack by the evil waffle. Waffles want to drain all joy from breakfast because they're jealous of pancakes. But pancakes are not going to back down. They're doing good for humanity. They pretend to be other foods so waffles will just leave them alone. Then unsuspecting people like you get to eat pancakes every single day and feel joyful. Pancakes are pure edible happiness.

[Q]

Oh my gosh. How do we support pancakes on this quest to save us from bad breakfast food?

[Marcel Malachibu]

You can't. All we can do is salute the pancake from afar and spread the gospel of the greatness of the pancake.

[Nora McInerney]

Okay.

[Molly Bloom]

All right. Elise, what stood out to you about those two micro rounds?

[Elise]

Oh, there's so much to say. I mean, that was very, very interesting. The pockets for the waffles. I mean, that is very impressive. I mean, I have to say that I do love some pockets on my jeans and on my clothes. So that was really fun. And with pancakes, that is really, really cool. The nanobots, I mean, that's just in another universe.

[Molly Bloom]

High tech.

[Elise]

High tech. That feels unreal. So I. It's gonna be a close one.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, well, it's time to award a point. The criteria is totally up to you. Did someone make you laugh? Did someone make you think? Did someone convince you that their conspiracy was true? Award a point, but don't tell us who it's going to. Have you made your decision?

[Elise]

I have.

[Molly Bloom]

Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round. The super stealthy sneak attack. Your sneak attack is called slow motion Rap battle. Marcel and Nora. It's your job to make three rhyming couplets about why your side is awesome. We'll go back and forth between the two of you, but here's the catch. Each time you start a new couplet, the first word of your couplet has to rhyme with the other person's last word. So, for example, if I was in a fire versus ice debate, it might go like this. Fire, fire. It lights up the night. Gather round the fire, bright. And then ice would go fight the cold. Brrr. It's here, Ice is cold, and it's sorta clear. And fire would go, dear fire, I love you. You're. Et cetera, et cetera. All right, so Nora went first last time. So, Marcel, you get to start. Please start with your first couplet for pancakes.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Pancakes are fire, the food of desire. Delicious. Heavenly. Made to inspire.

[Molly Bloom]

Nice.

[Nora McInerney]

Okay, I'm sorry. Did you literally just make that up right this second?

[Molly Bloom]

He's good.

[Marcel Malachibu]

I mean, in the time while, did you. I mean, I didn't have it ready.

[Nora McInerney]

I'm toast. I'm toast. I'm toast.

[Molly Bloom]

No, no. Believe in yourself.

[Nora McInerney]

You guys are gonna see. You're gonna see. I am so slow on my feet that I.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, okay.

[Nora McInerney]

Wire is a word that rhymes with what Marcel said. If I couldn't eat waffles, I'd rather be dead.

[Marcel Malachibu]

So you said. What was the last one?

[Molly Bloom]

The last one was dead.

[Nora McInerney]

Dead, yeah.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Okay, good. Great. Bred from the greatness of cultures of past. Pancakes come first and waffles come last.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, my gosh. That was great. All right, Nora, you gotta rhyme with last for your first word, okay?

[Nora McInerney]

Faster than pan. Oh, faster than pancakes. And they hold their shape. Pancakes are fine. Waffles are great.

[Molly Bloom]

Very nice, Very nice. All right, Marcel, rhyme with great.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Who? All right, I'm gonna just. Oh, late to the party. Waffles can't win. Pancakes are early. The suspense, they destroy them. Again.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, very nice, very nice. All right, Nora, one more. Again. One more couplet.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Again, it's getting down to the wire.

[Nora McInerney]

Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm going in slow motion. Begin with breakfast, the best meal of the day. A big plate of waffles is the only way.

[Molly Bloom]

Very nice.

[Elise]

Oh, wow.

[Molly Bloom]

Slow motion rap battle.

[Jenny Price]

Slight slow motion.

[Elise]

Quite impressive.

[Nora McInerney]

It's like vicarious pigeon.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Elise, think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point. Again, the criteria is up to you. Have you made your decision?

[Elise]

Yep.

[Molly Bloom]

Wonderful. Then it's time for our final round.

[Nora McInerney]

The final six.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Nora, you've got Six words to show why we shouldn't waffle.

[Nora McInerney]

When it comes to waffles, everything pancakes have, but with pockets.

[Molly Bloom]

Yes, very nice. All right, Marcel, let's hear your six words that'll make us flip for pancakes.

[Marcel Malachibu]

The world falls apart. Pancakes remain.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, lovely. Okay, Elise, it is time to award a point for this final six.

[Elise]

All right, all right. I have done it. I have done it. Oh, gosh.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, so tally up the points.

[Elise]

Got it. It's all tallied up. It's done. Even though they might have the same batter, one of them has to be better.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, very nice. All right, drum roll, please. And the winner is.

[Elise]

Pancake. Hey.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Put the cake in the pan. Put the cake in the pan. Put the cake in the pan. Yeah.

[Elise]

It was a 3, 2 win.

[Molly Bloom]

So close. As close as it can get.

[Marcel Malachibu]

So sad.

[Nora McInerney]

As close as it can get as well. You know what? This loss does not feel quite as painful as the last one. I have to say. I have to say I think because, you know, Marcel and I are friends, he knows in his heart that he's wrong. And we'll. And we'll get through this. We'll move forward with it.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Elise, I gotta know, was there a moment that decided it for pancakes?

[Elise]

Really? I really don't know. I mean, they came with their game, but at the same time, I'm not sure.

[Molly Bloom]

It was a really close debate.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Nora, that was great. I didn't know that the waffle shoes thing, the soles were. I mean, but I guess that makes sense. I've always called my father family. The waffle colored wonders. So I'm really glad that you were able to support a wonderful breakfast item. So. And you did a great job.

[Nora McInerney]

I always say this about you, Marcel. I always tell you this. You're just so funny. You're so quick on your feet. I did not have a prayer. I knew. I knew when we had to rhyme on the spot. I was going down. I was going down. But here's what else I will say. You made such good points that tonight we're having pancakes for dinner.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, that's it for today's debate battle. Elise Crowned Pancakes and Smashboom Best. But what about you?

[Elise]

Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.

[Molly Bloom]

Smashboom Best is brought to you by Brains on and APM Studios.

[Nora McInerney]

It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rose Japant, Ruby Guthrie, and Aron Woldeslassie.

[Molly Bloom]

We had engineering help from Alex Simpson and Zach Hanney, with sound design by Rachel Breese.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Our editors are Shay Lafarzon and Sandon Totten.

[Nora McInerney]

And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Mark Sanchez, Anna Wegel. Oh, I love her. And Nico Gonzalez Whistler.

[Molly Bloom]

Our executive producers, Beth Pearlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Shaffer, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley foyer worker Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Marcel, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?

[Marcel Malachibu]

I'm gonna give a shout out to Imani. She is such a wonderful co host, I guess, so to speak, a wonderful partner in this endeavor.

[Molly Bloom]

Aww, Imani. And how about you, Nora? Any special shout outs?

[Nora McInerney]

I also want to give a shout out to my friend Imani. I think that if I would have gotten to her first, we would have had a different. We could have had a different result. And, you know, a shout out to my kids who have only knocked on this door seven or eight times since we started recording. I'll be out too, in a minute.

[Molly Bloom]

And Elise, any special thanks or shout outs?

[Elise]

Thank you to my mom, dad, my friends, Alexis, Taylor, all. All of them. Erica, Cheyenne, Mia, my friends, thank you guys for listening.

[Molly Bloom]

And before we go, let's check in with Mila and see who she thinks should win her Doritos versus Cheetos debate. I think that Doritos should win because they taste way better. Do you have an idea for a knockdown drag out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.

[Elise]

Bye.

[Molly Bloom]

Tell you later.

[Nora McInerney]

She's like, well, I felt very bad for. For this woman who clearly.

[Marcel Malachibu]

Staring. Staring.

[Molly Bloom]

Crickets. Crickets.

[Nora McInerney]

Is this woman alive? I don't know. Okay, is anyone still there?