Sharks vs Skunks

Summary

Smash Boom Best: Sharks vs Skunks

Podcast: Smash Boom Best (Brains On Universe)
Host: Molly Bloom
Judges: Henry
Debaters: Rachel Ward (Team Skunk), Wendy Zuckerman (Team Shark)
Date: August 29, 2019

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Episode Overview

This high-spirited episode of Smash Boom Best pits two iconic animals against each other: the stinky, forest-foraging skunk and the ancient, misunderstood predator, the shark. Debaters Rachel Ward and Wendy Zuckerman battle it out with facts, folklore, songs, and some truly creative challenges to determine which creature is the ultimate Smash Boom Best. Judge Henry keeps score—without revealing his votes until the very end. Expect laughs, knowledge, witty comebacks, and even a musical number, all woven into an educational (and hilarious) debate for kids and families.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introductions

[00:07-02:19]

• Host Molly Bloom sets up the debate, describing both animals and introducing the debaters:
  • Rachel Ward (Chompers podcast) argues for skunks: “I think skunks are wildly cute, but I also love that they have this built-in smell that makes them even more desirable because you can't have them.” (03:00)
  • Wendy Zuckerman (Science Vs) takes up the shark side: “A shark is awesome and cool and scary and complicated.” (04:03)
• Judge Henry reveals an initial bias towards sharks but is open-minded.

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2. Declaration of Greatness

Each side gives a fact-filled, passionate pitch:

Team Skunk – Rachel Ward

[05:52–11:19]

• Opens with a historical story from 1634 Paris, describing Europeans' first encounter with skunks and their famous smell.
• Shares Algonquin legend explaining why skunks are small and have potent spray.
• Describes skunks’ defense protocol: tail up, foot stomping, handstands, then spraying up to 10 feet—smell can be detected half a mile away!
• Highlights ecological value: omnivorous diet beneficial to farmers (insect and pest control), nocturnal habits, and ability to eat bees.
• Ends with Charles Darwin’s praise:
  • “Conscious of its power, it roams by day about the open plain and fears neither dog nor man…every animal most willingly makes room for the skunk.” (10:50)
• Memorable Rachel quote:
  • “I invite you to make room in your heart for the skunk.” (11:19)

Judging/Discussion

[11:26]

• Henry: Enjoyed learning how skunks warn before spraying, calling them “polite.”
• Molly: “If you get sprayed by a skunk, it kind of sounds like it’s your own fault.” (11:41)

Team Shark – Wendy Zuckerman

[12:50–21:22]

• Debunks shark myths popularized by Jaws: “Forget all that, because it's time for the truth about sharks. The whole tooth and nothing but the tooth.” (13:15)
• Fun shark facts:
  • Hundreds of species (e.g., the shy shark, the wobbegong).
  • Unique adaptations: fast swimmers, specialized skin to reduce friction, rolling eyes back to protect themselves when attacking.
  • Terrifying but fascinating teeth, described by shark scientist Taylor Chappell:
    • “The teeth on the bottom of the jaw are sort of like fork tines...the top teeth are big, triangular, and serrated to...cut down through that prey.” (15:51)
  • Massive bite force.
  • Sharks are more visual predators than scent-driven.
• People are not a preferred food:
  • On average, only 60–100 bites (6 fatalities) worldwide a year, millions swim safely.
  • Shark researcher: “You're way more likely to...have a TV fall on you and die.” (17:47)
• Sharks’ bad PR comes from media. Debater and researchers advocate for sharks’ misunderstood status.
• Includes a full musical number parodying Wicked, advocating that sharks only want to eat seals and fish—not humans:
  • “But human flesh, it’s just not my cup of tea. So I won’t pull you down, Sharky.” (21:22)

Judging/Discussion

[21:22]

• Henry: Flattered by the song; appreciates the evolutionary avoidance of humans as prey.

Rebuttals

[21:43–22:36]

• Rachel (Skunks): “I'd like to apologize to all of the seals and manatees...Second of all, there's a lot my opponent is hiding about shark biology. Sharks are also scavengers...they hang out around sewage outlets so that they can eat poop.” (21:53–22:23)
• Adds that shark teeth are attached only to their gums, not jaws.

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3. Micro Round: Advice Column

[26:05–29:07]
Debaters respond as their animal to a complaint about noisy chickens hogging a favorite tree.

• Wendy (Sharks):
  • Asks fellow shark “Ruth Bader Finsburg” for advice: Sit directly on the chickens—since sharks don’t care about chickens, this will make them move.
• Rachel (Skunks):
  • Recommends skunk-style intimidation—steal and eat the chickens’ eggs in front of them so their reputation scares them off.

Henry: Both were “really good ways to just show your dominance over the chickens,” enjoying both the sitting and egg-theft strategies.

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4. Sneak Attack: Podcast Trailer

[30:41–31:43]
Create a catchy trailer for a podcast hosted by their side.

• Rachel (Skunks):
  • Title: “Think Before You Stink: The Skunk’s Guide to Confrontation and How to Avoid It”
    • Topics: conflict resolution, skunk strategies (handstands, stamping, escape tactics), humor for listeners who want to avoid causing a stink.
    • “Find Think Before You Stink near the garbage cans, by the cat food and the compost heap, or wherever you listen.” (31:13)
• Wendy (Sharks):
  • Title: “Shark Shark”
    • Host: Nicki Finaj.
    • Focus: Explores misunderstood animals each week (dolphins, orcas, tuna).
    • “There’ll be no canned laughter in this podcast...with your host, Nicki Finaj.” (31:43)

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5. Final Six: Six-Word Closing Argument

[32:09–32:34]

• Wendy (Sharks):
  • “Knife set in. Mouth wobbegong.” (32:18)
• Rachel (Skunks):
  • “Glorious omnivorous nocturnal, black and white.” (32:29)

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6. The Decision and Sudden Death

[32:52–36:13]

• Initial result: Henry declares a tie, explaining:
  • Enjoyed shark facts and the musical number most, but preferred Skunk’s micro round and podcast pitch. Final round for sharks due to the “wobbegong”.
• Sudden Death – Sandwich Art:
  • Rachel (Skunk): Toasted dark rye, cream cheese, hardboiled egg—“a black sandwich with two stripes of white”—called “the chicken buster.” (34:46)
  • Wendy (Shark): Skunk-based sandwich (not cannibalistic about sharks), with tomatoes, lettuce, and Great White bread—called “Skunky McSkunk.” (35:46)
• Final Point: Henry gives it to sharks but praises both entries.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Rachel Ward (Skunks):
  • “They give you a warning. The tail goes up. They give it a shake. They stomp their feet. They might even do a handstand...do you know what this thing can do? I am warning you, pal.” (08:48)
• Wendy Zuckerman (Sharks):
  • (on teeth) “Great whites basically have a set of flatware in their mouths.” (16:20)
  • “Shark Week? More like Shark Weak...with an E and an A.” (19:17)
  • (on the musical) “No, I just want to fight humanity. Or maybe a seal.” (21:22)
• Taylor Chappell (Shark Scientist):
  • “You're way more likely to...have a TV fall on you and die. Not very many people are terrified of walking past their televisions.” (17:47)
• Henry (Judge):
  • “It's really tough to pick between the podcasts, but I ended up going with the skunks.” (33:32)
• Rachel Ward (Sudden Death):
  • “A black sandwich with two stripes of white to represent the beautiful skunk...the chicken buster in honor of my win in the micro round.” (34:45)
• Wendy Zuckerman (Sudden Death):
  • “I'm not a cannibal, so I don't recommend you eat my brethren. Instead, I've decided that the key ingredient in my sandwich is a skunk.” (35:04)

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Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | | -------------- | ------------------------------------------------------------ | | 00:07–02:19 | Opening theme, debate introductions, and contestant bios | | 05:52–11:19 | Declaration of Greatness: Skunks (Rachel Ward) | | 12:50–21:22 | Declaration of Greatness: Sharks (Wendy Zuckerman + Song) | | 21:43–22:36 | Rebuttals | | 26:05–29:07 | Micro Round: Animal Advice Columns | | 30:41–31:43 | Sneak Attack: Podcast Pitch Trailers | | 32:09–32:34 | Final Six: Six-word Summaries | | 32:52–36:13 | Tie, Sudden Death, and Final Decision |

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Conclusion

Winner: Sharks (by sudden death tiebreak!)

This episode was a showcase of wit, creativity, and fun scientific facts. Both debaters highlighted their animal’s most remarkable talents, with the judges and audience reminded to appreciate these wild creatures—be it for their evolutionary prowess or for their misunderstood reputations. Whether you’re spooked by skunk spray or enchanted by sharks’ ancient mystery, you’re sure to have learned plenty by the end!

You Decide: Head to smashboom.org to cast your own vote—which side are you on: stealthy team shark or stinky team skunk?

Transcript

[Rachel Ward]

From the brains behind brains on, it's.

[Henry]

Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best. Today we've got two animals in the ring. In one corner we've got skunks, those woodsy, smelly striped cuties we all wish we could pet. And in the other sharks, those ancient bloodthirsty predators that make swimming at the beach just a little bit scary. Which wily creature will win this smash Boom battle?

[Henry]

Sharks are just better. And they won't even hurt you unless you look like a seal.

[Rachel Ward]

I think skunks would win because they can swim, but they can also go on land.

[Molly Bloom]

Skunks.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

What do skunks do? They fart on you. Come on.

[Rachel Ward]

I love sharks.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

I think they get an unfair rep in the media.

[Rachel Ward]

Skunks are nice too. I believe they're the only animal in Minnesota that you can't legally rehabilitate, which is a little bit sad. So maybe we should be like for.

[Molly Bloom]

The skunks, will it be stealthy team shark or stinky team skunk? Henry is here to help us decide. Hi, Henry.

[Henry]

Hello.

[Molly Bloom]

So Henry, when I say shark, what do you think about?

[Henry]

I think of Jaws.

[Molly Bloom]

Can you tell us what Jaws is about?

[Henry]

Jaws is a movie about a shark that eats a bunch of people. I know that.

[Molly Bloom]

So have you ever seen a shark in real life?

[Henry]

I've seen the little ones at aquariums, but not any big dangerous ones.

[Molly Bloom]

Are you afraid of sharks? Are you fond of sharks? How do you feel about sharks?

[Henry]

I feel like if I met a dangerous shark in real life, I'd be afraid of it. But I like the little ones you can find at aquariums.

[Molly Bloom]

They're cute.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

And what about skunks? Do you know what a skunk smells like? Have you smelled it in real life?

[Henry]

Yeah, a lot.

[Molly Bloom]

How would you describe that smell?

[Henry]

Very pungent. It's strong.

[Molly Bloom]

It is very pungent. So what pops in your mind when you hear the word skunk?

[Henry]

I think about driving down to my grandparents house. There's normally you can smell a skunk or two on the way down.

[Molly Bloom]

Do you already think one is cooler than the other sharks or skunks?

[Henry]

I think sharks are a little bit cooler, but I could very much see skunks winning.

[Molly Bloom]

So you're going into this with an open mind? Yeah. Good to know. Well, let's meet our debaters here to defend adorable, nocturnal, smelly team Skunk. Is Rachel Ward. Hi, Rachel.

[Henry]

Hello.

[Rachel Ward]

Thank you for having me.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank you for being here. You are the host of the Chompers podcast. Can you tell us a little about your show? Sure.

[Rachel Ward]

So Chompers is a show for kids. It is every morning and every night, and it's two minutes long, which is how long dentists say you're supposed to be brushing your teeth. We made Chompers so that you'll always brush your teeth for the right length of time and you can be entertained while it's happening.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, so now in a single sentence, why are skunks the smash boom best?

[Rachel Ward]

I think skunks are wildly cute, but I also love that they have this built in smell that makes them even more desirable because you can't have them.

[Molly Bloom]

Mm, excellent. And here to represent sharks, those frightful fish that have been swimming our SEAS for over 400 million years, it's science journalist Wendy Zuckerman. Hi, Wendy. Hello. So, Wendy, you are the creator and host of the podcast Science vs. At Gimlet Media. Can you tell us a bit about your show? Yeah.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So Science Versus, as the name suggests, looks at all these ideas and things that are out there in the world and then we just put them under the scientific microscope. So it could be like a DNA kit that maybe your parents took and found out that they were half German and never knew before. And we ask, like, how real is that? We answer questions like that.

[Molly Bloom]

Have you ever talked about sharks on the show?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

We have. Our most recent episode is all about sharks.

[Molly Bloom]

So in one sentence, why are sharks cooler than skunks?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

I mean, how can I choose amongst the stars in the sky, like, all the reasons why sharks are so much cooler than skunks. I mean, they're like, not even in the same category. A shark is awesome and cool and scary and complicated.

[Rachel Ward]

Outrageous.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And a skunk, like what? It's got like, like two K's in it. Like, it doesn't even have variety in its lettering system.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, my gosh, it's even getting into the spelling. This is going to be an excellent debate. Let's review the rules of the game. Round one is the Declaration of Greatness. Each side will use facts, history and lore to prove that their side is the coolest. And they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statement. Then we've got the micro round, a creative challenge each side has prepared for in advance. They'll use this opportunity to make a splash. Round three is the sneak attack, a surprise challenge for both our debaters and to top it all off, we've got the final six. In this round, each team will have six words to make a closing case for their side. Our judge, Henry, will award one point after each round, but he'll keep his decisions top secret until the end of the debate. And, listeners, we want you to judge, too. So mark down your points, and at the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org and vote. Okay, everybody, are you ready?

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Rachel Ward]

Yes.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Born ready.

[Molly Bloom]

Then it's time for the declaration of greatness. Our debaters will present the most fascinating facts and awesome arguments in favor of their side. We flipped a coin, and Rachel, you're up first. It's time for a declaration of greatness that'll make us all delight in the smelly glory of skunks.

[Rachel Ward]

Imagine it is 1634 and you're in Paris. So it's this huge city in France. There are no cars, no electricity, but more importantly, there are no toilets. If you need to pee in the middle of the night, you pee in a bucket, and then you open the window and throw it in the street. There are also no showers and there's no deodorant, which becomes particularly apparent when you decide to embark on an adventure to the New World. Because to get to the New World, you have to ride on a ship with a bunch of salty sailors who are definitely not wasting any of the boat's limited fresh water on baths. So when you finally reach the New World, to you, it smells amazing. Sparkling clear rivers, the scent of pine forests. But then one day, you smell something you have never smelled before. Something that is more foul than anything back in stinky old Paris. It is so stinking and casts so foul an odor, no sewer ever smelled so bad. This is a description written in 1634 by a missionary who took that journey from the stinky Old World to New France, part of what we now call Quebec. I would not have believed if I had not smelled it myself. Your heart almost fails when you approach the animal. Welcome to the New world, buddy. And may I introduce you to the skunk? There are no native skunks in Europe. So these black creatures with two white stripes down their backs were new to Europeans. But Native Americans and First Nation folks have been dealing with these stinky boys for a long time. Our word skunk is actually borrowed from the Algonquin. Skunk comes from a word that means pea fox. According to Algonquin legend. We should be grateful that skunks are only about the size of a house cat, because, the story goes, that one day, two brothers were paddling down a river in their canoe. And when they realized, hey, we're near.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Where that big skunk roams, the big.

[Rachel Ward]

Skunk could shoot his stinky skunk spray across the ocean. So he has kind of a reputation. One of the brothers is like, yeah, let's get him.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

This is my whole thing. I kill dangerous and large animals, and the big skunk is both.

[Rachel Ward]

So they work up this plan. One brother sharpens a stick, you know.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

So I can plug up the skunk's stinky shooter.

[Rachel Ward]

And the other brother says, I'll smoke.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

My pipe to make big clouds of smoke so the big skunk can't see us.

[Rachel Ward]

And then when they get to the part of the river where the big skunk typically pounces on his victims, I'll.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Jump out of the cloud of smoke and pierce the skunk.

[Rachel Ward]

But he doesn't kill him. And the other brother's like, dude, why.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Did you let the big skunk live? I just wanted to make him small enough so that people could use him without getting hurt. You know, his pelt is pretty beautiful, and there's some good meat on there. So from now on, skunks won't be giant. They'll be small and have just enough power in their spray to protect themselves.

[Rachel Ward]

And, boy, can they protect themselves. First, skunks give you a warning. The tail goes up. They give it a shake. They stomp their feet. They might even do a handstand. And then they turn and look at their butts as if to say, do you know what this thing can do? I am warning you, pal. But if all else fails and the skunk can't get away, they're pretty terrible at running. The skunk will fire. The stuff that makes the stink is thiol. That's a chemical compound that has sulfur as its main ingredient. So you might know that as rotten egg smell. Skunks can spray their blasters five to six times at once up to 10ft. And the smell is so foul that you can smell it from a half a mile away. And it has the power to temporarily blind some predators. And if a skunk isn't able to directly spray their attacker, they can make a cloud that the predator has to run through. That's what you get for messing with a skunk. So that's all of the why not about skunks. Why you should not mess with these black and white baddies. But here is the why of skunks. Why you should all be stamping your feet and doing handstands to get a spot on Team Skunk. Skunks are tough little forest foragers. They will eat anything. We're talking bugs, we're talking spiders, we're talking toads, frogs, lizards, snakes, mice, chipmunks, eggs, plants, and pests. Farmers actually kind of like skunks because they gobble up the kinds of grubs and grasshoppers that farmers hate. In 1894, farmers in New York actually pushed for a law to protect skunks because they were so helpful with their hop crops. Plus, skunks are nocturnal, so they do all their eating at night while the rest of us are asleep. So could these guys be any better eaters? You bet, because skunks eat bees. If you've got a hive in your home, send in a skunk, because they don't, even if they get stung while they're eating them. And finally, I'm gonna leave you with the words of scientist Charles Darwin upon encountering his first skunk.

[Charles Darwin (quoted)]

Conscious of its power, it roams by day about the open plain and fears neither dog nor man. If a dog is urged to the attack, its courage is instantly checked by a few of the fetid oil, which brings on violent sickness and running at the nose. Certain it is that every animal most willingly makes room for the skunk.

[Rachel Ward]

And so I invite you to make room in your heart for the skunk.

[Molly Bloom]

Ooh, a very rousing argument for team Skunk. Henry, what did you think about Rachel's declaration of greatness? What stood out to you?

[Henry]

I like how you said that they give a warning. Like, they're more polite than just like, oh, yeah, I'm just gonna spray you because you came near me.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah, if you get sprayed by a skunk, it kind of sounds like it's your own fault. I want to see them do a handstand really bad. That sounds awesome. Well, Wendy, it is time for your rebuttal. Give us your best shark attack. You've got 30 seconds. And go.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

All right, so skunks sound like they just eat a bunch of garbage. You say, like, that's great, but I'm just hearing, like, munching garbage machines over here. Farty, munchy garbage machines. It all reminded me of a great tale, Henry, that my dad told me. It's not a tale so much as a life lesson. If you don't love the smell of your own farts, you can't really love yourself. And you know, that's what I'm thinking about.

[Molly Bloom]

Through all of this and time, I can ratchet up rebuttal but just as a reminder, Wendy, we feel you should point out that skunks don't fart. They actually spray a smelly liquid from glands near their rear ends. But a very useful lesson for all of us. Wendy, it is your turn. We want to know why sharks are the coolest creatures in the animal kingdom.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

All right, well, Henry, you said that you knew about Jaws, and in fact, what a lot of people have heard about sharks comes from films. In fact, the very first blockbuster film involving sharks was the 1975 film Jaws.

[Rachel Ward]

It is as if God created the devil and gave him Jaws.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Well, forget all that, because it's time for the truth about sharks. The whole tooth and nothing but the tooth. Do you get it? Because some sharks have big teeth. We're going to get to that. Just to say first, some fun shark facts. There are, in fact, hundreds of different shark species out there. Like, there's one called the shy shark, and it has eyes like a cat. My personal favorite is a shark called the wobbegong. It means shaggy beard in Australian Aboriginal. Got that shaggy beard, and it got that name because these sharks look like these beautiful swimming carpets. Okay, that's the wobbegong. But of course, the shark that inspires legends. The great white. And that is the shark that Jaws is based on. And these sharks are huge. There's a reason that they're called great. And these sharks hunt their prey in these crazy cool ways. So the great white will often start by diving deep down into the water, and they're looking up, and they're looking up for a silhouette. A silhouette of their favorite prey. Ya, mum. Okay, joking, joking, joking. Seriously, seriously joking. They're not looking after your mum. They're not after your mum or looking after your mum. They are often looking for a seal, okay? And when they see that silhouette of a seal, the shark starts barreling through the water. Cause if a seal spots them, no dinner for sharky. Now, scientists have found that with a couple of flicks of the tail, they can go from a cruising speed of about 1 mile an hour to 25 miles an hour. And they can move so fast because over millions of years, sharks have evolved all these things called adaptations that help them move through the water. Like, even their skin has these tiny little bumps that create little whirlpools in the water to reduce friction. Surfer dudette. Whoa.

[Molly Bloom]

Please. Whoa.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Thank you. Now, when a shark gets close enough to their prey to protect their eyes from a seal fighting back, great whites will actually roll their eyes back. So at that point, they are basically Blind. And then the shark will clamp down their teeth. And their teeth truly are super duper scary. Here's how shark scientist Taylor Chappell from Stanford explained it to us.

[Taylor Chappell]

The teeth on the bottom of the jaw are sort of like fork tines. Then the top teeth are those really iconic white shark teeth that they're big, triangular, and they're serrated to sort of move back and forth in order to cut down through that prey.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So it really is like when you like grab a sequel steak with the fork and then you like cut a little piece with a serrated knife. Like that is the shark's mouth.

[Taylor Chappell]

Yeah, that's, that's what they're doing, which is. That's pretty cool.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yes. Great whites basically have a set of flatware in their mouths. And seals don't just have these scary teeth to worry about. Great whites have these powerful muscles around their jaw, which scientists have estimated gives them one of the strongest bite forces in, in the animal queendom. Now people say that great whites can smell a drop of blood in an Olympic sized swimming pool, but that's actually not true. Great whites are actually more visual predators. We think they use their eyes more than their schnozzes. Okay, now I know what you're thinking. Sharks are the best thing in the world. They're so much better than skunks. But also you're probably thinking they're scary. Well, here's some good news. You don't need to be scared of sharks. Why? Because you're not a seal. And sharks in the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of cases don't like to bite people. Get this. Scientists in Australia, the US and South Africa have seen great white sharks and bull sharks swimming near hundreds of people and they just don't go after them. Yet people hardly ever get bitten by sharks. Like each year, millions of people hit the big beach. And yet only about 60 to 100 people ever get bitten by sharks worldwide. And on average only six people are killed.

[Molly Bloom]

Like six.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

What's that? Anyway, here's what shark researcher Taylor had to say about it.

[Taylor Chappell]

You're way more likely to be, you know, have a TV fall on you and die. You know, not very many people are terrified of walking past their televisions.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So to find out why sharks don't like eating people, we at Science versus the podcast I work for, and you should totally listen to Shameless. Plug Ahoy thought that we, we should ask a shark why they don't like eating people. So. Hey, Justin Bieber. Just Finn. I was just wondering why you didn't like eating people. Is it too late now to say, sorry, I can't understand what you're saying? Alright, so we couldn't get answers from Justfin. But then when we asked the next best thing, scientists, they told us that the reason that sharks don't like eating people is because for millions of years, sharks have been eating marine animals, not people. And so great whites and other sharks probably evolved to prefer the taste and feel of fish. And seals and sea lions. They don't like eating us. Given all this, why are people scared of sharks? Well, they have bad pr. I mean, Shark Week, you know, that yearly TV event with scary shark videos are all over Discovery Channel.

[Molly Bloom]

Hello.

[Rachel Ward]

News of the man eating great white.

[Henry]

Shakes nerves across Australia.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Shark Week? More like Shark Week. Like, like with an E and an A. Like, like weakling. Get it?

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Anyway, another researcher, Dr. Pep and Neff, who's at the University of Sydney, told us that sharks have been demonized.

[Henry]

And when I do my musical flaws, the musical, it's going to be, you know, like wicked. It's going to be like wicked. And the sh. The, you know, the. The shark is going to be the star of the musical.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Now, Chris is still writing his musical, so my amazing producer Rose Rimler and I, we recently got together and we wrote a song for our podcast, Science Versus to right this Wrong. Here it is, our version of Wicked. I know you people are scared of me, but I'm not the one to blame. You saw Jaws as a child and now you think I maim. But I need to eat sometimes. And even if you're on the beach, I'll choose a seal for food Roll back my eyes and breath Or I might try to bite a manatee but human flesh, it's just not my cup of tea. So I won't pull you down Sharky. I find that hard to believe. Dolfinda, haven't you been listening to anything? You really don't want to eat humans? No, I just want to fight humanity. Or maybe a seal. But human flesh, it's really just not what I'm into. So I won't pull you down.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow. That is our first fully produced musical number on Smashboom. Best. So, Henry, what did you think about that very musical declaration of greatness?

[Henry]

Well, first of all, I'm flattered you wrote a song for me and they evolved over millions of years to just not like eating humans.

[Molly Bloom]

That's convenient.

[Henry]

Yeah, it is.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, Rachel, I know you have some things to say, so you have 30 seconds for your rebuttal why do sharks stink? And your time starts now.

[Rachel Ward]

First of all, I'd like to apologize to all of the seals and manatees in the smashboom Best audience. It seems that Wendy's truly discounted their feelings. Second of all, I want to say that there's a lot that my opponent is hiding about shark biology. So, sharks are also scavengers. Much like skunks, they are attracted to the chemicals in the intestinal systems of their prey, which means that they like to hang out around sewage outlets so that they can eat poop.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh. What?

[Rachel Ward]

Also, this is a lot of game. Talked about these shark teeth, but did you know that shark teeth are only attached to their gums, not their jaws?

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Henry, we've heard a lot. Sharks, skunks. So much to take into account. But it's time to award your first point. And remember, we're asking you to judge based on one simple thing. Which is cooler. Don't tell us which side you're going with, but mark it down when you're ready.

[Henry]

Difficult decision, but I think I know who I'm gonna put the point with.

[Molly Bloom]

So you've decided?

[Henry]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, we're gonna take a short break. You can have a baby seal snack or nibble on some bugs because you'll need your energy.

[Henry]

We'll be right back with more Smashboom Best.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

You're watching State of Debate.

[Rachel Ward]

Home to Ragin rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Taylor Lincoln here with 16 time debate champ, Todd Douglas.

[Todd Douglas]

Greetings, debate heads. I just caught a real stunner of debate on tape.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Two classical DJs were arguing about which composer is better, Beethoven or Mozart.

[Todd Douglas]

Beethoven, obviously.

[Taylor Lincoln]

I'm way more into Mozart.

[Todd Douglas]

Because you were a child prodigy too?

[Taylor Lincoln]

No, because I like the music better.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Sure.

[Molly Bloom]

Really?

[Todd Douglas]

You can't fool me, Taylor. The talented Lincoln. I just wish I could hold a tune. Roll tape.

[Rachel Ward]

Listen to this. DJ Bass. Mozart's Eine Kleine Nacht.

[Molly Bloom]

Music.

[Rachel Ward]

Isn't it just gorgeous? Mozart is the best classical composer.

[DJ Treble]

No, no, no. I respect your opinions, DJ Treble, but I still think Beethoven is the best.

[Rachel Ward]

Yeah, but Mozart was a child prodigy. He started composing at age five.

[DJ Treble]

Yes, but Beethoven composed some of his best works. Deaf. Meaning he couldn't even hear them and they still ruled. Ever heard of the ninth Symphony? I want you to imagine how awful it must have felt to go deaf. To lose the one asset you needed for your life's work, and then to go on composing despite it all. To hear all those beautiful sounds in your head, to feel the music in Your bones. Now that is genius.

[Todd Douglas]

That DJ is sharp. He's using a great debate tactic, something we like to call an emotional hook.

[Taylor Lincoln]

An emotional hook is when you connect with your audience's feelings and make them empathize with your arguments. I don't agree with DJ Bass, but he did make me feel really bad for Beethoven.

[Todd Douglas]

I know, but remember, debate heads, you always have to support your emotional hooks with facts too.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Exactly. Facts plus emotion make very strong arguments. Like, for example, Mozart only lived until he was 35 and he still managed to compose 600 works of music.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeesh.

[Todd Douglas]

Here we go again with the child prodigies for some major debate tips on state of debate.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Boom.

[Molly Bloom]

Smash. Smashboom Best. You're listening to smashboom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.

[Henry]

And I'm your judge, Henry.

[Molly Bloom]

One of my favorite things about this show is all the amazing debate ideas we get from listeners like you. Blake from Washington, D.C. sent us this awesome idea.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Farts versus burbs.

[Molly Bloom]

We're gonna check back with Blake at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win.

[Henry]

And now it's back to our debate of the day. Sharks versus skunks.

[Molly Bloom]

That's right. And it's time for round two, micro round. For this challenge, we asked our debaters to imagine their side either a shark or a skunk, as an advice columnist, and then write a response to this reader's dilemma. Dear debater, every day after school, I catch up on some reading under my favorite oak tree in the park. Its sturdy trunk and leafy boughs are my one refuge. But lately a flock of chickens have been beating me to it. They never shut up and they're always laying eggs in inconvenient places. I've tried to find a compromise, but they're very rude and unwilling to negotiate a tree sharing schedule. Please help. Sincerely fed up with these foul fowl. All right, Rachel went first last time. So, Wendy, let's hear your razor toothed response to this pleading reader.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

All right, here we go. Well fed up with these foul fouls. I'm very sorry to hear about your terrible predicament. As a shark, I don't actually have to deal with chickens. It's really great because I'm just in the water all the time. But I did call out my very wise shark friend, Ruth Bader Finsburg, and she's going to arbitrate on this. Now, most people would think that her shark advice would be eat the chickens, but honestly, we're not that into chickens. Like all those Feathers. Anyway. Now, as great whites, we prefer seals. So here's what Ruth told me. She said that when chickens are unwilling to negotiate, there's only one thing for it. You have to sit on them, just write on them, and then you have to pretend to read. Now, chickens being chickens, they will squawk and squeak, but just don't mind that you just pretend you're reading. The chickens will get bored, they'll get uncomfortable, and then they'll move on and hopefully you'll get to rule the roost.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent advice, Team Shark. Okay, Rachel, let's hear your skunky advice for fed up with these foul fowls.

[Rachel Ward]

Dear Fed up. What a rude brood. Now, you might think I'd recommend putting up a stink the next time these hens are in the hood, but we're not certain whether chickens have enough of a sense of smell to be off put by an odor. So if these fowl are running afoul of common courtesy, then it looks like to make this omelette, you're going to have to crack a few eggs. And actually, speaking of omelets, skunks love to sneak a raw egg out of the nest and into their mouths. So I say next time these chickens come a clucking, be like a skunk and pluck a couple of eggs right in front of them. Seeing you laying into what they've laid should be enough of a deterrent to keep them off your turf. That's basically the way of the skunk. Our reputations tend to precede us, so much so that animals that really ought to see skunks as a delightful dinner like badgers and wolves generally have in catching a noseful. They're scared of the very idea of what we might do. So grab a bite in front of these bossy birds and watch their appetite for your perfect park perch disappear.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent advice for our fed up with foul fowls. Henry, what stood out to you in those advice columns?

[Henry]

I feel like both ones would be a really good way to just show your dominance over the chickens. I think sitting on them would be a very effective strategy or stealing their eggs. I feel like that's also a very good way because you could very much steal them. They get mad and chase you away.

[Molly Bloom]

Both good options. It's hard to choose, but it's time to award a point. So don't tell us who you're voting for, listeners, you too award a point for this micro round. Henry, have you decided?

[Henry]

Yes, I think I have.

[Molly Bloom]

He has. Awesome. And it's time for our Third round, the super stealthy sneak attack. Our sneak attack is Animalcast. Write a short, catchy trailer for a podcast hosted by your side. Be sure to include information like the name of the show, your animal host's name, any guests, your release date, and why. Listeners should tune in. We'll give you a few minutes to work, and while you're brainstorming, we're gonna listen to some lovely hold music.

[Rachel Ward]

Ancient predators of the deep. Razor sharp rows of scary teeth. Bloodthirsty great white. Get away from me. Cute French tuxedo. Dude, did you just fart? My gosh, how rude. Watch for the white stripe prancing through the dark.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Rachel, let's hear Team Skunk's podcast.

[Rachel Ward]

Hey, listeners, if you like Smashboom best, we think you'll love Think before you stink, the skunk's guide to confrontation and how to avoid it. I'm your host, Titus Mephitis, and we'll tackle how to talk it out or stamp your feet or do a handstand or scurry up a tree or dig a hole. All of the strategies that can help you avoid causing a stink. Find think before you stink near the garbage cans, by the cat food and the compost heap, or wherever you listen.

[Molly Bloom]

I would subscribe for sure. All right, Wendy, it's your turn. Let's hear about bloodthirsty Team Sharks podcast.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Have you ever wondered which animals are misunderstood like dolphins? Are they really that sweet? Orcas? Free Willy? More like deadly beasts. And finally, tuna. What's up with them? Well, there'll be no canned laughter in this podcast. You should listen to Shark Shark every week with your host, Nicki Finaj.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent work, both of you. Henry, think about which podcast trailer wowed you the most. Which podcast would you tune into? Give that team a point, but don't tell us which one you voted. For listeners at home, you too award a point for this sneak attack challenge. Henry, have you decided?

[Henry]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. All right, it's time for our last round.

[Rachel Ward]

The final six.

[Molly Bloom]

Wendy, you're up. You've got just six words to make a final impression on Henry here. Let's hear them.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Knife set in. Mouth wobbegong.

[Molly Bloom]

Very nicely done. And now, Rachel, your turn. Let's hear your last six words.

[Rachel Ward]

Glorious omnivorous nocturnal, black and white.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Henry, we've taken a fantastic trip around the animal kingdom today. From the coastal waters of Australia to the North American woodlands, both teams have put up a tremendous fight. But it's time to award our final point and crown one of these fearsome and fascinating creatures. The Smash Boom Best.

[Henry]

All right, I have awarded my final point.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, drum roll please. And the winner is.

[Henry]

It was actually a tie.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Oh, it was.

[Rachel Ward]

Whoa. That's the only result that could have preserved our friendship.

[Molly Bloom]

Can you walk us through your thinking a little bit, Henry?

[Henry]

Well, I thought that there were a lot more facts and a song with the declaration of greatness for sharks, but then I kind of liked the skunks micro round a little bit more. Ok. And then it was really tough to pick between the podcasts, but I ended up going with the skunks.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay.

[Henry]

And then for the final six, I chose sharks because wobbegong.

[Molly Bloom]

It's a good word, It's a very interesting shark. But there are no ties here on Smashboom Best. So we have a tie breaking round. It's time for.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Sudden death.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Rachel and Wendy, are you ready for your sudden death challenge?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Never been more ready.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, the challenge is sandwich art. We want you to make up a sandwich inspired by your side. What would the ingredients be and why did you choose them? Does it have a name? Make us hungry. Wendy went first last time. So Rachel, you're up. Tell us about your sandwich.

[Rachel Ward]

So I'm taking two pieces of dark, dark, dark rye bread and I'm going to toast them and then I'm going to spread cream cheese on each piece of bread. And then I'm gonna take a hard boiled egg and I'm gonna slice it up and then I'm gonna lay the slices of egg on one of the pieces of bread and then put them together. And then you are going to have a basically black sandwich with two stripes of white to represent the beautiful skunk.

[Molly Bloom]

That sounds delicious.

[Rachel Ward]

It's like a spin on an egg salad sandwich. So maybe I'm gonna call it the chicken buster in honor of my win in the micro round.

[Molly Bloom]

Move. All right, Wendy, let's hear about your sharktastic sandwich.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

All right, so you might have expected that it would be some kind of fish based sandwich, but obviously I'm not a cannibal, so I don't recommend you eat my brethren. Instead, I've decided that the key ingredient in my sandwich is a skunk.

[Rachel Ward]

This is outrageous.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Chop it up, fry it up real good. Add some salt, add some pepper. You kill that thing fast, it won't even fart on you at all. I heard that it tastes like chickens, just like those foul fowls that we heard about. Add some tangy tomatoes, a little bit of lettuce, and top it off with some great White bread.

[Molly Bloom]

Does your sandwich have a name?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

It's called Skunky McSkunk.

[Molly Bloom]

It is time to award a point for this sudden death challenge.

[Henry]

I think I know who I'm gonna go with.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Henry, who gets your final point?

[Henry]

I'm gonna have to give it to Sharks. It made me laugh quite a bit, but also I thought the skunk sandwich was pretty smart too.

[Molly Bloom]

And that's it for today's debate battle.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Henry.

[Molly Bloom]

Crowned sharks the smashboom best. But what about you?

[Henry]

Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think should win.

[Molly Bloom]

Smashboom Best is brought to you by Brains on and American Public Media.

[Rachel Ward]

It's produced by Mark Sanchez, Sandon Totten, Molly Bloom, Elissa Dudley, and Rosie Dupont.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

We had engineering help from John Miller and Zach Schmidt, and we had production.

[Rachel Ward]

Help from Manica Wilhelm, Christina Lopez, and.

[Molly Bloom]

Lauren D. Brenna Everson is the voice of our hold music, and our announcer is Marlee Feuerworker Otto. We want to give a special thanks to Justin Koo, Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, Matt, Max Nesterak, Eric Ringham, and Jed Kim. Wendy, is there anyone you want to thank today?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

I want to thank my team and particularly Rose Rimler, who produced our episode on Sharks and helped me out with a lot of this info.

[Molly Bloom]

And how about you, Rachel? Any special shout outs?

[Rachel Ward]

I'd like to thank all of our Chompions. Those are our Chompers listeners as well as the Chompions who make Chompers and the team at smashboom Best.

[Molly Bloom]

Do you want to give any special thanks, Henry?

[Henry]

Oh, I'd like to thank my dad for driving me here and then my brother for being my brother and my mom for being awesome.

[Molly Bloom]

Aw. And before we go, let's hear who Blake thinks would win in a farts versus burps showdown.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

I don't know who will win.

[Molly Bloom]

Blake can't make up his mind. But what do you think? Head to smashboom.org and tell us all about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.

[Henry]

Farewell.

[Rachel Ward]

It's natural. West.

[DJ Treble]

Smash the rest.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

But farts are so much fun. I mean, you can crop dust someone you know, you walk past, you just do a fart. Bear, trap him, get him in the lift, fart walk out. And then with a burp. What can you do?