Venus vs Jupiter

Summary

Smash Boom Best: Venus vs. Jupiter

Podcast: Smash Boom Best (Brains On Universe)
Host: Molly Bloom
Debaters: Kasha Patel (Jupiter), Tommy McNamara (Venus)
Judge: Anna Weggle
Date: July 25, 2019

Episode Overview

This episode takes listeners on an out-of-this-world ride, pitting two of our solar system’s most fascinating planets—Venus and Jupiter—against each other in a feisty, family-friendly debate. The debaters, armed with facts, humor, and creativity, make their case in a series of rounds, while planetary researcher Anna Weggle weighs the evidence and picks a winner. The episode not only spotlights awesome space facts, but also models fun, evidence-based argument—and plenty of friendly banter!

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Judge’s Expertise & Perspective

• Judge Anna Weggle researches exoplanets and has a background in gravity's influence on solar systems.
• Anna admits a soft spot for Jupiter due to a research mishap where she "forgot to include Jupiter," but promises impartiality.

  "I sort of forgot to include Jupiter in my research and it led to some interesting results..." (03:08, Anna Weggle)

2. Declaration of Greatness (Round 1)

Venus (Tommy McNamara):

• Venus is the most beautiful planet, “named after the Roman goddess of love and beauty.” (06:05, Tommy)
• Brightest object in the night sky after the sun and moon; its clouds reflect 70% of sunlight.
• Known as the "morning star" and "evening star."
• Called Earth's "sister planet"—similar in size and composition.
• Venus rotates counterclockwise (unique!), is hot (800°F+), and shrouded in mysterious clouds.
• Most volcanoes of any planet.
• Possible microbial “cloud aliens” in its atmosphere.
• Culturally significant: appears in Van Gogh's "Starry Night" and is celebrated in poetry.
• Original closing poem encapsulates Venus’s allure (11:00):

  “Venus, in the sky, you shine so bright. Temperature at day is same as night. Thousands of volcanoes span your beautiful mass. And you’re terrestrial, unlike Jupiter, which is just a bunch of gas...”

Notable Judge Reaction:

• “It was actually really interesting to learn that it's part of Starry Night.” (12:12, Anna Weggle)

Jupiter’s Rebuttal:

• “As a 21st century feminist, there's more to life than looks...Also, you said it moves really slow and counterclockwise, and that's not cool.” (12:41, Kasha Patel)

Jupiter (Kasha Patel):

• The largest planet—"11 times larger than its opponent”—“like comparing an elephant to a raccoon...Venus is the raccoon."
• Jupiter’s gravity and presence helped form the solar system—Venus (and Earth, Mercury, Mars) “owe their existence to Jupiter.”
• Acts as a planetary shield; its strong gravity diverts or absorbs space debris that would otherwise threaten Earth.
• Provides gravity assists for spacecraft, slinging probes farther into space and saving fuel.

  "Jupiter's gravity acts like a bodyguard for Earth." (16:13, Kasha Patel)

• Jupiter has more than 75 moons—some (like Europa) could harbor life and, maybe, support human colonists.
• “Big ball of gas”—can’t be stood upon—but its moons are major exploration targets.

Venus’s Rebuttal:

• “Anna literally forgot about Jupiter in her research project. So I think I win that one...you're the one who was basically made up of the sun’s vomit.” (19:46, Tommy McNamara)

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3. Micro Round: "Ultimate Getaway" – Planetary Vacation Ads

• Jupiter (Kasha):
  • Landscape of changing colors, storms, and the iconic Great Red Spot (“planet-sized mood ring”).
  • Adventure: “Gravity Assist” roller coaster catapults visitors to outer moons like Europa.
  • Europa offers water and maybe breathable air for “the ultimate getaway.” (25:10)
• Venus (Tommy):
  • No need to pack anything but a swimsuit: “temperature never dips below 880 degrees.”
  • "A day on Venus lasts a year"—plenty of relaxation time.
  • “The only pressure you’ll be under is the crushing atmospheric pressure.” (27:04) —Both vacation pitches delight Anna:

  "That lighting does sound pretty great for those Instagram photos..." (26:46, Anna Weggle) "It would be nice not to have to pack for all the weather changes..." (28:07, Anna Weggle)

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4. Sneak Attack: "Alpha Facts" – Planet Facts from A to Z

• 30-second time limit to rattle off as many alphabetized planet facts as possible.
• Venus (Tommy): “A: Astronomers love it...B: Babylonian times/Bright...C: Carbon Dioxide...” (30:15)
• Jupiter (Kasha): “A: Apple colored spot, B: Big, C: Colossal...F: Flinging satellite missions...” (30:55)
• Both show creativity and quick thinking; judge is impressed.

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5. The Final Six – Six-Word Closing Arguments

• Jupiter (Kasha):

  “Our creator, protector and future home.” (32:19)

• Venus (Tommy):

  “Cloud Aliens. Need I say more?” (32:40)

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6. Results & Tiebreaker

• After four main rounds, the score is tied.
• Sudden Death: "Animal Essence"
  • Venus: "A lioness. Beautiful, regal, fierce—a lion queen.” (34:19, Tommy)
  • Jupiter: "A whale...regulates the planet food chain, beautiful and majestic.” (34:48, Kasha)
• Winner: Jupiter (via whale analogy)

  "Jupiter is definitely a majestic planet, just like the whale." (35:35, Anna Weggle)

7. Judge’s Thoughts on Rounds

• Chose Jupiter for the gravity and planetary formation arguments.

  “I'm just sort of a gravity nerd...those gravity facts, both with formation and with the gravity assist, those sort of won me over for that round.” (36:15)

• Venus impressed with creativity, especially the travel pitch and alphabet facts.

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Memorable Moments & Standout Quotes

• On Venus’s Fame:

  “Venus is in Van Gogh!” (10:00, Tommy McNamara)

• Jupiter’s Physical Impact:

  "Jupiter's gravity acts like a bodyguard for Earth." (16:13, Kasha Patel)

• Venus’s Fierceness:

  "Venus is a lioness...fierce and…a lion queen.” (34:19, Tommy McNamara)

• Jupiter as a Whale:

  "Every whale I've ever seen is always beautiful. That's exactly like Jupiter and it's very majestic." (34:48, Kasha Patel)

• Venus’s Comeback:

  "You're the one who was basically made up of the sun’s vomit." (19:46, Tommy McNamara)

• Judge’s Art Connection:

  “My mother’s an art teacher…to learn that one of my favorite paintings also has Venus in it…that’s pretty cool.” (12:12, Anna Weggle)

• On Planetary Identity:

  “Let’s just say we’re fraternal.” (08:52, Venus as voiced by Kasha Patel)

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Important Timestamps

• [06:05] Venus’s Declaration of Greatness
• [13:24] Jupiter’s Declaration of Greatness
• [25:10] Jupiter’s Vacation Ad
• [27:00] Venus’s Vacation Ad
• [30:15 & 30:55] Alpha Facts Challenge
• [32:19 & 32:40] The Final Six
• [34:01+] Sudden Death Tiebreaker – Animal Essence
• [35:35] Winner Announced

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Tone & Takeaways

The entire episode is playful and fast-paced, blending factual science nuggets with imaginative interpretations and good-humored jabs. Both debaters weave in pop-culture, humor, and creative wordplay. The judge asks thoughtful, reflective questions that encourage listeners to weigh evidence and see the fun in respectful debate.

Conclusion:
Jupiter wins by a hair, thanks to its gravitational power, role in planetary formation, defensive might, and striking analogies. But Venus puts up a “fiery” fight, impressing with creativity and pop-cultural connections. The episode encourages young listeners to marvel at the wonders of space, think critically, and debate with both style and substance.

Final Words from the Judge:

"Jupiter is definitely a majestic planet, just like the whale, and is once again the largest planet in our solar system. Just like a whale is the largest organism in the ocean." (35:35, Anna Weggle)

Transcript

[Kasha Patel]

From the brains behind brains on, it's.

[Anna Weggle]

Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which is best. Today we're blasting off leaving Earth's orbit and grabbing front row seats to a completely out of this world interplanetary smackdown. Grab some popcorn and make sure your spacesuit is fully pressurized. It's Venus versus Jupiter.

[Kasha Patel]

I definitely think that Venus would win. If you wouldn't get burned up by the gases, you could probably jump into the top of Jupiter and fall out the bottom part. You know, Venus is the goddess of.

[Anna Weggle]

Love, so I'd have to say Venus definitely.

[Tommy McNamara]

Like when you see Jupiter, you can very quickly say, oh, that's Jupiter.

[Anna Weggle]

Only planet named after a woman.

[Molly Bloom]

I love it. It's beautiful.

[Tommy McNamara]

I'm gonna have to give that one to Jupiter just cause, I mean, it's the biggest planet in the solar system, which is. I mean, that's just cool by itself.

[Molly Bloom]

Which planet will be crowned the Smash Boom Best? Will it be the volcanic planet next door, Venus? Or larger than life Jupiter, with its trademark red spot? Thankfully, we have a very qualified judge today to help us decide. Hello, Anna.

[Anna Weggle]

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

[Molly Bloom]

Thank you for being here. So we thought that you would be the perfect judge for today's debate because you spend a lot of time thinking about planets.

[Anna Weggle]

Yes, I do. I've been for the last few years been doing research on exoplanets, which are planets that orbit other stars. And I've been trying to figure out whether we might be missing any planets by seeing if we can squeeze any more in between the ones that we've already found.

[Molly Bloom]

That is amazing. So how do you do that?

[Anna Weggle]

Yeah. So, you know, gravity is the thing, the same thing that pulls us out down on Earth. It's also the thing that keeps planets orbiting around their stars. And what I did was see if you added more planets in between ones that we'd already found. So for example, if I was analyzing our system, one between us and Mars, then I wanted to see that if you put a planet there, whether the gravity between the planets would be so strong that it would change the orbits or the paths the planets take, or whether you could put in another planet sort of without noticing any differences. And that's how I was trying to find whether or not we might be missing planets.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh my goodness. That is very impressive. And you won a prize for this work, right?

[Anna Weggle]

Yes, I just won the Regeneron Science Talent Search, formerly known as the Westinghouse Science Talent Search.

[Molly Bloom]

Congratulations. That is a very, very big deal. And I just want to know, how did you get interested in space?

[Anna Weggle]

Well, I really love solving problems, especially ones that are really big and really interesting, and space is full of them. And I particularly got interested in planets when I learned about predicted planet nine in our own solar system. So these were researchers at Caltech that were finding planets or predicting planets with math. And I was so interested in that, I wanted to know whether that would be possible in solar systems.

[Molly Bloom]

That is amazing. Well, today we are sticking to our solar system for the debate. And I want to check in with you just before we get started. Do you have strong feelings about Jupiter or Venus already?

[Anna Weggle]

I have some feelings about Jupiter, mostly because of an experience I had with my own research. My first iteration of my research, I was trying to do it with a. Basically practicing with our own solar system. And let's just say I sort of forgot to include Jupiter in my research and it led to some interesting results that, that I did not catch until the very end. But, you know, it's become a positive thing for me. So I think, you know, it's very balanced and I think I'll be able to be impartial for this debate.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, excellent. I'm sure our debaters will be very happy to hear that. So do you ever get into debates with your friends or family?

[Anna Weggle]

Yeah, we definitely get into debates. You know, it's good to share your ideas and practice, you know, testing them out against other people's.

[Molly Bloom]

So when you do have debates with your friends or family, what is your strategy for winning?

[Anna Weggle]

I always try to make sure that my arguments are fact based. As a scientist, I like having a lot of data so that I can see the trends, see the impacts, and I like to have, you know, a lot of data and facts to back up my arguments.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, well, let's meet our stellar debaters here to rep that gassy giant, Jupiter, it's Kasha Patel.

[Anna Weggle]

Hello, Kasha.

[Molly Bloom]

In just one sentence, why is Jupiter the planet earthlings should root for?

[Kasha Patel]

Because it's the biggest planet out there that we know of in our solar system.

[Molly Bloom]

And now arguing for our too hot to inhabit next door neighbor, Venus, it's Tommy McNamara.

[Tommy McNamara]

Hello. I'm excited to be here, Tommy.

[Molly Bloom]

Why is Venus the coolest?

[Tommy McNamara]

It's bright, it's hot, it's full of volcanoes. What's not to love?

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. Before we fire up our engines for liftoff, let's review the four Rounds of debate. First up, it's the declaration of greatness. It's the debaters chance to present all the coolest facts about their side. Round two is the micro round. It's a create challenge that the debaters prepared for in advance. Then it's the sneak attack, a different surprise challenge every episode. And the last round is the final six, when both teams have to sum up all the things that make their side great in just six words. After each round, Ana will award a point to the debater that she thinks did the best. And she won't reveal a winner until the very end. But hey, you might have a different opinion, so keep track of your points while you're listening. You can download a custom scorecard now and cast your vote after the the episode, [e-mail] all right, Ana, are you ready to decide which is cooler, Venus or Jupiter?

[Anna Weggle]

Yes, I'm ready.

[Molly Bloom]

And how about you debaters? Are you feeling confident and ready? Yes.

[Kasha Patel]

Very confident.

[Tommy McNamara]

Yes. Very excited.

[Molly Bloom]

Very good. Because it's time for our first round declaration of greatness. Both debaters have done their homework and they're about to drop some deep space knowledge on us. We flipped a coin and Tommy, you're up first. Let's hear your declaration of greatness for team Venus.

[Tommy McNamara]

Esteemed judge, I stand before you today with a simple. Not only is Venus a better planet than Jupiter, Venus is the greatest planet in the entire solar system. First of all, let's talk looks. Venus is the most beautiful planet. So beautiful that it was named after the Roman goddess of love and beauty. Venus is so beautiful that all the way back in the 17th century BC, Babylonians started charting its movements, which is basically the ancient astronomer equivalent of following it on Instagram.

[Kasha Patel]

Did you see what Venus is doing in the sky?

[Molly Bloom]

You mean looking amazing all the time?

[Kasha Patel]

Yeah. Is it possible to be in love with a planet?

[Molly Bloom]

If it's Venus, then yes, very much, yes.

[Tommy McNamara]

The reason it's so visually appealing is, is that it's the brightest object in our solar system after the sun and the moon. The clouds of Venus reflect 70% of the sunlight that reaches it more than any other planet. It's so bright that many people have confused it for a star, earning it the nicknames morning star and evening star. Venus has real star power. Earth has a special connection with Venus. In fact, Venus is often referred to as Earth's sister planet, but because the two have a ton in common, both are terrestrial planets, which means that they're made of hard rock and metals. Both are similar in size Both like taking long walks on the beach. Scientists believe that billions of years ago, Earth and Venus had similar climates. But let's just say the two planets grew up to form their own identities.

[Molly Bloom]

How?

[Tommy McNamara]

Well, I'll let them explain it.

[Kasha Patel]

I'm Venus.

[Tommy McNamara]

And I'm Earth.

[Kasha Patel]

We have a lot in common. In fact, sometimes we even finish each other's solar systems.

[Tommy McNamara]

We're total twinsies. We have similar mass and density and we're both close to the sun.

[Kasha Patel]

But I'm like really close to the sun. So I'm hot. Stop bragging. No, like really hot. I'm talking over 800 degrees Fahrenheit.

[Tommy McNamara]

OMG.

[Molly Bloom]

How.

[Kasha Patel]

OK, so first of all, I get much closer to the sun in my rotation. During Earth's rotation, it's an average of 92.96 million miles from the Sun. But during my rotation, the average is only 67.24 million.

[Tommy McNamara]

These numbers are giving me brain freeze.

[Kasha Patel]

I could use some of that. My atmosphere is mostly made up of carbon dioxide, also known as CO2, which causes a greenhouse effect. Basically, my atmosphere traps heat and light from the sun and that's why our climates are so different. Plus, I'm covered in sulfuric clouds, which make it hard to see my surface hot and mysterious.

[Tommy McNamara]

You're right, Venus. We are different. Does this mean we're not twinsies?

[Kasha Patel]

Let's just say we're fraternal.

[Tommy McNamara]

The climate isn't the only thing that makes Venus unique. Venus rotates counterclockwise. Unlike every other planet in the solar system, it also rotates very slowly, like rush hour traffic on a holiday weekend. Slow. Each trip around the sun takes Venus 225 Earth days. Another thing that sets Venus apart is that it doesn't have any moons or rings. It doesn't need the extra flare. What Venus does have is volcanoes. Venus has more volcanoes than any other planet in the solar system. Volcanoes are to Venus what Starbucks are to Earth.

[Molly Bloom]

Uh, yeah.

[Kasha Patel]

Could I get a double venti volcano with extra magma coming right up?

[Tommy McNamara]

It may sound like nothing could ever survive on Venus, but some scientists have a different idea. Last year, an international group of scientists published a study saying they believed the lower cloud layer of Venus could have favorable conditions for microbial life. What I'm saying here is some scientists believe Venus could have cloud aliens. Since Venus used to have a climate similar to Earth, the scientists hypothesize that life could have began on the surface of Venus, then migrated up to the clouds about 30 miles up in the atmosphere. Are you freaking out? I'm Freaking out. I'm not the only one who loves Venus. Venus has been admired and depicted in cultures for millennia, and not just in science fiction. Venus is actually one of the items in the sky in the painting Starry Night by Vincent Van Gogh. You may not know it by name, but you can picture it. A dreamy, swirly oil painting of a city at nighttime under the light of the stars. Let me say that again for the folks with one ear. Venus is in Van Gogh. Venus was also written about by some of the best poets of all. Robert Frost, Alfred, Lord Tennyson, Homer, Virgil. But hey, famous poets aren't the only ones who get to rhyme about Venus. In fact, I'm an aspiring poet myself. So here's a poem I wrote about Venus that I'm debuting on the show today. Venus, in the sky, you shine so bright. Temperature at day is same as night. Thousands of volcanoes span your beautiful mass. And you're terrestrial, unlike Jupiter, which is just a bunch of gas. You're family to Earth. We call you our sister, even though your atmospheric pressure would crush us humans like a blister. And sure, your clouds rain sulfuric toxic acid down. But you're our goddess, our queen. You wear the crown, Venus. You shine like our sun and our moon. We hope to hang out with your cloud aliens soon. Please snap.

[Molly Bloom]

Facts, history, original poetry. Venus may be small, but this planet knows how to pack a punch. So, Anna, what did you think? What part of Tommy's declaration of greatness impressed you the most?

[Anna Weggle]

Yeah, well, it was actually really interesting to learn that it's part of Starry Night. My mother's actually an art teacher, and so I've been looking at Starry Night since I was, you know, a little kid. So to learn that one of my favorite paintings also has Venus in it. That's, you know, that's pretty cool.

[Molly Bloom]

That is very cool. And the phrase cloud aliens is going to be stuck in my head forever. All right, now we're going to give Team Jupiter a chance to respond. Kasha, you have 30 seconds for your rebuttal. Starting now.

[Kasha Patel]

Venus is lame. I just want to say, as a 21st century feminist, there's more to life than looks. It's not just all about how beautiful you are. Also, you said it moves really slow and counterclockwise, and that's not cool. You're just confused. That's like a bunch of ballerinas in harmony on stage, but you have one over there just going the wrong way and messing it up for everybody else. You also talk about how cool the volcanoes are. Volcanoes, when they're active, are dangerous. And if they're not active, they just look like a bunch of rocks. That's super boring.

[Molly Bloom]

You also said they and time. Kasha, it's now your turn to deliver a declaration of greatness. Convince us that Jupiter is the solar system's smash. Boom. Best.

[Kasha Patel]

Welcome, boys and girls, to one of the most anticipated out of this world matchups of this podcast season. Our first contender, around 11 times larger than its opponent, and the largest and gassiest planet in our solar system, nicknamed the gas giant, it's Jupiter. Our second contender is. Wait, this can't be right. Jupiter is going up against this puny planet.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay.

[Kasha Patel]

Our second contender is much less notable, but we need it to fill time. It's Venus. Let's get ready to rumble. So this matchup is almost not fair. How can you compare the most powerful planet in our solar system to a planet that most people forget exists just by sheer size? Jupiter wins. If you added up the mass of all the other planets in our solar system, Jupiter is still more than twice as large. It weighs about 390 times more than Venus. That's like comparing an elephant to a raccoon. And to be clear, Venus is the trash eating, rabies carrying raccoon. Jupiter is also one of the reasons that Venus is and Earth, Mercury and Mars for that matter, exist. Don't believe me? Let me tell you a story. It all started 4.6 billion years ago, when our solar system was just a swirling cloud of dust and gas. As these materials crashed into each other, they'd form clumps. Eventually, these clumps combined to form bigger and bigger clumps. This is how our sun started to form. When the sun was almost fully formed, it still had leftover material and decided to be a kind friend to other potential planets. The sun said, I have a lot of dust and gas that I didn't need for my formation. I'll just leave it out here in case anyone else wants to use it. Any takers? And there was one taker. Just in the same way the sun was formed, this gas and dust material started to condense and become a gas planet. The planet said, I'll use this to.

[Tommy McNamara]

Become the biggest planet in the solar system.

[Kasha Patel]

And so Jupiter was created from the sun's leftover gas and dust. Jupiter was ecstatic and ventured out into our solar system. But it was so big that it destroyed other new planets forming in its path. That may sound terrible, but the debris from those destroyed baby planets were actually some of the Construction materials used to create Venus. Wow, you mean I owe my existence to Jupiter?

[Molly Bloom]

Thanks, Jupiter.

[Kasha Patel]

These construction materials were also helpful in forming Earth, Mercury and Mars. Without Jupiter, those planets might never have existed. And the cool thing about Jupiter is it keeps looking after us. Jupiter's gravity acts like a bodyguard for Earth. Remember gravity? It's the force that planets use to draw objects towards their centers. Like if you drop an apple on Earth, it falls to the ground. That's because gravity is pulling it down. Well, Jupiter's gravity is much stronger than Earth's, like two and a half times stronger. Its gravity actually pulls objects like asteroids or comets away from Earth and can even tear them into shreds. Where sometimes Jupiter will just let the comet hit it. It's big enough and can take it. If it weren't for Jupiter, Earth would get hit much more frequently by things in space.

[Tommy McNamara]

Jupiter goes in for the punch and.

[Kasha Patel]

Pounds that comet into dust.

[Tommy McNamara]

This gas giant is large and in charge.

[Kasha Patel]

Jupiter also helps satellites explore our solar system. Remember when we sent a satellite mission all the way to Pluto a few years ago? Well, the satellite actually stopped by Jupiter to get a speed boost. Imagine Jupiter like a friend who is picking you up and throwing you farther into space. Scientists call this boost a gravity assist. As a spacecraft approaches Jupiter and enters the planet's gravitational field, the spacecraft essentially steals some of Jupiter's momentum and gains a boost of energy that helps shoot it forward. These speed boosters help reduce the duration of a satellite mission and the amount of fuel needed, which saves a lot of money. Jupiter has donated energy to at least 10 different space vehicles in the last three decades. And last but not least, Jupiter is the coolest planet because it might just be our greatest chance for finding alien life. And maybe one day in the far, far future, a second home for earthlings. No, we can't live on Jupiter. In fact, we can't even stand on it. It's a big ball of gas, so we would sink right through and then be crushed by the intense pressure from inside the planet. But Jupiter has more than 75 moons, and some of those might support life. Europa is one of them. Scientists think this ice covered moon could have the three necessary ingredients for water, chemistry and energy. Scientists have been able to study Europa already, but NASA and the European Space Agency are planning additional missions to study this moon in the next few years. Picking Jupiter is a no brainer. It's been around for a long time, protecting earthlings and helping us explore the outer reaches of our solar system. And one day might even provide Us a new home.

[Tommy McNamara]

I'm not sure how Venus is going to recover from this fact based peak down.

[Kasha Patel]

This seems like a knockout to me.

[Molly Bloom]

Big talk from a big planet. What did you think, Anna? Any memorable moments in there?

[Anna Weggle]

Well, I think the gravity assist part is really important because if we're going to go explore planets out on the edge of our solar system, having something to slingshot our spacecrafts further into space is going to be is really helpful and it's going to continue to be really helpful. So that was very interesting. That's right.

[Kasha Patel]

She gets it.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, don't worry, Team Venus. We're going to give you a chance to respond. You have 30 seconds for a comeback and your rebuttal starts now.

[Tommy McNamara]

Okay, first of all, you said that Venus was forgettable. Anna literally forgot about Jupiter in her research project. So I think I win that one. And okay, this just confirmed everything I think about Jupiter. It's just a big mean bully and it's just picking on everyone. It's 75 moons. That's too much. That's greed, that's gluttony. I don't appreciate it and I don't think it's good. And also. Okay, here's something to say. You said that Venus is a raccoon. Well, first of all, raccoons are cool. And second of all, you're the one who was basically made up of the sun's vomit. Okay, I'm all fired up now.

[Kasha Patel]

The sun's vomit.

[Tommy McNamara]

For a scientific term, yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh man. Well, that is the end of our first fierce round, which means it's time to award a point. So Anna, I want you to take a minute to reflect on everything you heard. Think about which side presented the best facts, which side was the most persuasive, but above all, which debater convinced you their planet is the coolest listeners at home. You mull it over too. And once you've decided, mark down a point for this round. But Anna, don't say it out loud.

[Anna Weggle]

Okay, I'll keep it secret.

[Molly Bloom]

Did you decide, Anna?

[Anna Weggle]

I did.

[Molly Bloom]

Oof. Was it a hard decision?

[Anna Weggle]

It was tough, but I think I landed on the right decision.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, we are going to give our debaters a quick break while we flex our logical thinking skills. Don't go anywhere because smashboom Best will be right back.

[Kasha Patel]

You're watching State of Debate, home to ragin rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.

[Tommy McNamara]

Todd Douglas here, ahem, ten time debate champ along with my co host Taylor Lincoln who is a 1111 time debate champ.

[Kasha Patel]

What can I say? My argument slay. Welp, let's get down to it. Today we're following a mind bending debate in Strawberry Point, Iowa between a pigeon named Linda and a chicken named Sue. They are debating an age old question.

[Anna Weggle]

Listen, Linda, I just read a peer reviewed academic paper that supports my argument. The egg came first and then the chicken. I'll email it to you.

[Kasha Patel]

That just doesn't make sense. How can an egg come first when.

[Molly Bloom]

You need a chicken to make one?

[Anna Weggle]

Evolutionary biologists explain it like at some point two proto chickens made it. Then the egg they made contained the first modern chicken.

[Kasha Patel]

So the chicken egg came before the chicken.

[Tommy McNamara]

Psst.

[Kasha Patel]

Nonsense. I guess I shouldn't expect someone who can't even fly to understand things like this.

[Tommy McNamara]

Holy smokes. That was a big old glaring sunny side up runny oak.

[Kasha Patel]

Okay, Todd, we get it.

[Tommy McNamara]

A big old logical fallacy.

[Kasha Patel]

Right you are. Logical fallacies are common mistakes people make when debating.

[Tommy McNamara]

Mistakes that make it easier for your opponent to win.

[Kasha Patel]

Indeed, Todd, There are many different types of logical fallacies. And the one we just heard from Linda the pigeon is called an ad hominem fallacy, which is when you insult.

[Tommy McNamara]

Your opponent instead of addressing their argument.

[Kasha Patel]

Correctamundo. Let's hear that ad hominem fallacy again. I guess I shouldn't expect someone who can't even fly to understand things like. Yikes.

[Tommy McNamara]

Linda tried to distract from Sue's solid argument by insulting.

[Kasha Patel]

Yeesh, no class at all. Let's see how sue will respond. That is a very rude thing to say.

[Anna Weggle]

Besides being completely irrelevant to this debate.

[Kasha Patel]

Let'S get back on topic. How do you respond to biologists who.

[Anna Weggle]

Say that the egg coming first makes evolutionary sense? Do you have any scientific studies or expert opinions to support your claim?

[Kasha Patel]

Hold on, I just need to Google some things. You see, what I'm trying to say is. Ah, well, there you have it, folks. Ad hominem Fauci's don't win debate.

[Tommy McNamara]

Too true, Taylor. Better to come armed with facts and figures than personal insults.

[Kasha Patel]

We'll catch you next time on State of Debate. Smash Boom Best.

[Molly Bloom]

I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best. The show about shooting. Emery from Denver, Colorado sent us this fantastic debate idea.

[Anna Weggle]

My debate is lettuce versus spinach.

[Molly Bloom]

We'll hear from Emery again at the end of the show to hear who Emery thinks should win. And if you have an epic debate idea, we want to hear it. You can visit smashboom.org to share. Now it's time to get back to our celestial showdown.

[Anna Weggle]

Venus Versus Jupiter.

[Molly Bloom]

Yep, our debaters really brought the heat in round one. Are you ready for your next bout, Tommy and Kasha? Yeah.

[Tommy McNamara]

Bring it on.

[Molly Bloom]

All right. Three, two, one.

[Kasha Patel]

Micro round.

[Molly Bloom]

We sent our debaters this challenge in advance. It's called the ultimate Getaway. We asked Tommy and Kasha to sell us on the idea of a vacation to their planet. What are the amenities? How about the must see sights, Local cuisine? To get a point, they'll need to convince Anna that an excursion to their planet is the trip of a lifetime. Tommy went first in round one. So, Kasia, you're up. Get us jazzed about jetting off to Jupiter.

[Kasha Patel]

Gladly. Are you looking for a place to escape all your homework, house chores, and podcast listening? Don't just pick any old planet to vacation on. Pick the one that will make all of your friends jealous.

[Molly Bloom]

Jupiter.

[Kasha Patel]

With its mix of red, orange, and yellows, Jupiter provides the most beautiful landscape you will ever see in person. Depending on the weather, the colors will change, so every picture you take could look different. You'll see white spots if there are cool storms, brown spots if there are warm ones, and red spots if there are really hot storms. It's like a planet sized mood ring. Omg, this lighting is amaze.

[Molly Bloom]

Let me take a selfie in this storm.

[Kasha Patel]

As you fly over the planet, you will also see the famous Great Red Spot, a swirling hot storm on the surface of Jupiter. It is more than twice the size of Earth and has been raging for at least 400 years. The iconic Great Red Spot is like the Grand Canyon of outer space. Everyone instantly recognizes it. Oh, there it is. So great, so red. It's like a beauty mark, but for a planet. And when you're ready to go into adventure mode, take a ride on the roller coaster called Gravity Assist. As you approach Jupiter, your spacecraft will start to speed up, and then you'll be catapulted into outer space where you will sleep on one of the planet's many moons. You can stay on the ice covered moon known as Europa, where you'll have water, may be able to breathe, and have the ultimate vacation getaway of your lifetime.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, that sounds like a pretty good time. Anna, did Kasha sell you on Jupiter?

[Anna Weggle]

That lighting does sound pretty great for those Instagram photos. You might have to go check that out.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, it is Tommy's turn to sell us on the newest vacation hotspot. Let's hear what Venus has to offer.

[Anna Weggle]

Okay, kids, don't forget your sweaters, your winter coats, your electric blankets, your hand warmers.

[Tommy McNamara]

Does this sound Familiar to you this spring break, why not try something different?

[Molly Bloom]

Like what? Hawaii. Haha.

[Tommy McNamara]

Close. This year, take your family to Venus. On beautiful Venus, the temperature never dips below 880 degrees. So that means every day is a beach day. Plus that temperature never changes day or night. So all you need to pack is your swimsuit.

[Molly Bloom]

Whoa.

[Tommy McNamara]

That's right. And Venus rotates so slowly that a day on Venus lasts an entire year, which can provide you some much needed rest and relaxation. That sounds good to me.

[Kasha Patel]

I've been under a lot of pressure at work.

[Tommy McNamara]

No need to worry about that. Here on Venus, the only pressure you'll be under is the crushing atmospheric pressure. That's right, folks. Head on down to Venus where it's hot, hot, hot. And the only thing lower than our prices is the amount of hydrogen in our atmosphere. Paid for by the tourism board for Venus. All tickets non refundable.

[Molly Bloom]

What do you think, Anna? Are you ready to venture to Venus?

[Anna Weggle]

Well, it would be nice not to have to pack for all the weather changes. That certainly would make our suitcases a lot lighter. So it's a good thing to consider.

[Molly Bloom]

Definitely. So Anna, now you've heard both sides and it's time to award a point to just one of them. So think about everything you've heard, listeners. You can always pause if you need more time to deliberate. Did you decide which vacation package you're going with?

[Anna Weggle]

Yes, I did make my decision. I'm ready to pack my bags and get going.

[Kasha Patel]

Okay, excellent.

[Molly Bloom]

Brace yourselves, everybody. The next round is coming in at warp speed.

[Kasha Patel]

Sneak attack.

[Molly Bloom]

Our third round is a complete surprise for our debaters. Are you two ready to hear your sneak attack challenge? Yes. Yes. Right. Your sneak attack is Alpha facts. Come up with as many facts as you can about your side for each letter of the Alphabet. Oh gosh. You'll have 30 seconds to rattle them off. So this is a tough one. You're just gonna do it off the top of your head. So if my side were smash, boom. Best, here's how I would do it. A is for attacking opponents is a bad idea. B is for better do your research. C is for creativity is key. D is for debate rules. E is for excite your audience. F is for fact checking is important. We're going to give our debaters a minute to brainstorm while we take a dance break.

[Kasha Patel]

Sister Venus burning bright acid clouds hot day and night Cloudy neighbor darling mornings.

[Molly Bloom]

Star.

[Kasha Patel]

Giant Jupiter, big red spots many many moons and a core that's hot super bright fifth planet from the sun.

[Molly Bloom]

Are you both Ready?

[Tommy McNamara]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah. Okay, Tommy, Kasha went first last time, so you're up first. I will time you and cut you off when you reach 30 seconds. Let's hear those alpha facts, starting now.

[Tommy McNamara]

A. Astronomers love it. They've been charting it since B, Babylonian times. And it's also B bright. And its atmosphere is full of C, carbon D dioxide E. Earth is its F friend even though it's full of G greenhouse gases. H. How can I keep talking with all these facts I've thought about? I don't know. That's as far as.

[Molly Bloom]

Time. You really squeezed a lot into those 30 seconds, Kasha. We're gonna see how many you can get in in just 30 seconds. Your time starts now.

[Kasha Patel]

A, Apple colored spot.

[Molly Bloom]

B.

[Kasha Patel]

Big C. Colossal D. Daunting personality. E. Exquisite colors. F. Flinging satellite missions into space. G. Gigantic gas planet. H. Hallelujah. Jupiter was here to create the puny Venus.

[Molly Bloom]

I.

[Kasha Patel]

Incredible scenery. J. Jupiter is obviously much, much better than Venus. K. Kasha is so cool for picking Jupiter. L. Time I might have not actually gotten decay.

[Tommy McNamara]

L is for. Leave me alone.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, that was very impressive both of you. You managed to cram a lot of good arguments in for both planets in just 30 seconds. But now, Anna, it's time for you to award a point. And the judging criteria is totally up to you. Creativity, facts, style, Totally subjective, totally up to you.

[Tommy McNamara]

Honesty.

[Anna Weggle]

This is a hard decision. Those are both really great, especially given how quickly those had to be created.

[Molly Bloom]

So Ana, have you awarded a point for that sneak attack round?

[Anna Weggle]

I have.

[Molly Bloom]

That was.

[Anna Weggle]

Took some deliberation.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. Well, good, I'm glad you're being very thoughtful about this important decision. And ready or not, the end is near.

[Kasha Patel]

The final six.

[Molly Bloom]

Our debaters have one last chance to persuade Anna that their planet is the coolest thing since the Big bang. Kasha, you're up first this time. Please present us with your six word closing statement on Jupiter, our creator, protector and future home. Very nicely done. Okay, Tommy, let's hear your six word.

[Tommy McNamara]

Tribute to Venus Cloud Aliens. Need I say more?

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, and there you have it. We've heard four rounds of astronomical arguments for Venus and Jupiter. Now all eyes are on our judge, Anna. She's taking it all in, reflecting on the facts and figures and smack talk she's heard and steeling herself to make a very hard decision. Ana, have you marked down your last point?

[Anna Weggle]

I have.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent listeners, mark down your point for the final six too. So Anna, tally up your points and tell us, who are you? Crowning the smash. Boom.

[Anna Weggle]

Best it's tied.

[Molly Bloom]

What? What?

[Kasha Patel]

You slipped her money?

[Molly Bloom]

This is. But we have a tiebreaker round just for these occasions. It's our sudden death round and this one is called Animal Essence. So Kasha and Tommy, you have to answer this question and Anna is going to side. Who gets a point? If your side was an animal, what would it be? Describe the animal and why it's so similar to your planet.

[Kasha Patel]

I mean, I already picked the animal for Venus earlier and I stand by that. It's a rabies carrying raccoon.

[Tommy McNamara]

You don't speak for Venus.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, do you both have an animal in mind?

[Tommy McNamara]

Yes.

[Kasha Patel]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Tommy, you're up first.

[Tommy McNamara]

Venus is a lioness. It's beautiful, regal may not be the biggest animal, but it's fierce and it's unlike the lion king. Venus is a lion queen. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I know it was bad.

[Molly Bloom]

Kasha, what is your animal?

[Kasha Patel]

I think Jupiter is like a whale, not just because of its size, but because it helps regulate the food chain, just like Jupiter helped regulate all the other planets when it was first being created. And you never look at a whale and not think, that's amazing. That's exactly like Jupiter and it's very majestic. Every whale I've ever seen is always beautiful.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, so, Anna, you have to choose between the fierce lioness of Venus and the majestic whale of Jupiter. You can think about it for a second and award your point.

[Anna Weggle]

I definitely need some time to think about this.

[Molly Bloom]

Who do you feel captured the essence of their planet? Who gets the final point?

[Anna Weggle]

Oh, I feel like we need a drumroll or something here. Drumroll. The winner of today's debate in the Venus vs Jupiter debate is Jupiter. I have to say, the whale debate did definitely seal the deal because, you know, Jupiter is definitely a majestic planet, just like the whale, and is once again the largest planet in our solar system. Just like a whale is the largest organism in the ocean. So appreciated the parallels there, but it was very, very close. Hard fought.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah. I mean, it went to a tiebreaker. It did. Can you tell us a little bit about your thinking on the other rounds? Like where the different sides won you over?

[Anna Weggle]

Yeah. So for the declaration of greatness, I really loved the discussion of this formation of our solar system because that's something that's really interesting to me because it's one of the places where gravity plays a really important role in what the solar system looks like today. And I think that, you know, I'm just sort of a gravity nerd. I love thinking about big things. That interact. So those gravity facts, both with formation and with the gravity assist, those sort of won me over for that round. But I have to say, the arguments for Venus were very creative. I appreciated the, you know, the micro round with the travel ad for Venus. I'm ready to pack my bags and go. And the way that those alphabets flowed into each other, those Alphabet facts, that was very impressive.

[Kasha Patel]

Yeah, the Alphabet facts were pretty good, I'll give you that. Tommy.

[Tommy McNamara]

I would just so humble in victory.

[Kasha Patel]

But no, in all seriousness, I didn't actually know that much about Venus and I didn't know the starry night bit, which was actually very interesting. And the volcanoes on Venus are pretty cool.

[Tommy McNamara]

Aha. You admit it.

[Molly Bloom]

Jupiter may have won gravity nerd Anna over, but maybe Venus persuaded you instead.

[Anna Weggle]

Go cast your vote for Team Jupiter or team [e-mail] and you can see who other listeners voted for too.

[Molly Bloom]

That's all for this cosmic clash. Smash boomvest is brought to you by Brains on and American Public Media.

[Kasha Patel]

It's produced by Mark Sanchez, Sandon Tauten, Molly Bloom, Alyssa Dudley, and Rosie Dupont.

[Tommy McNamara]

We had engineering help from Veronica Rodriguez, Robert Fraser, and Dan Powell.

[Kasha Patel]

And we had production help from Manika Wilhelm, Christina Lopez, and Lauren D. Brenna.

[Molly Bloom]

Everson is the voice of our hold music and our announcer is Marlee Foyer worker Otto. We want to give a special thanks to Justin Koo, Taylor Kaufman, Austin Cross, Noah Gregory, Anna Weggle, Alex Bomhart, Chrissy Pease, Will Laugher, Ayanna Esters, Melanie Ellsworth, Josh Holt, Taka Zen, and Jeffrey B. Soy, Kasia. Is there anyone you want to thank today?

[Kasha Patel]

I would like to thank all of the space nerds out there who are listening to this right now. I would like to thank Anna. I would like to thank her mentor at NASA Goddard. And I would like to thank Tommy and everyone else involved in this podcast. And I'd like to thank myself.

[Molly Bloom]

And what about you, Tommy? Anyone you want to thank? I would.

[Tommy McNamara]

I would like to thank my eighth grade science teacher, Mr. Van. He's one of my favorite teachers ever.

[Molly Bloom]

Aw, that's awesome. Anna, do you want to give a special shout out to anybody?

[Anna Weggle]

I'd like to thank my science teachers, especially my science research teacher, Sean Lowe, and my mentors and everyone who has helped me with my research the many, many last few years. So, yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Awesome. Before we sign off, let's hear some more from Emory. That's the listener that had the idea for a lettuce versus spinach debate. Here's who Emery thinks would win.

[Anna Weggle]

I think lettuce would win because it's good.

[Molly Bloom]

It's yummy.

[Anna Weggle]

Very yummy. Healthy and crunchy.

[Molly Bloom]

I like a good crunch. You can send us all your most epic [e-mail] who knows? Your idea could end up on the show. Check back next week for another debate battle. It's smash. The West.

[Kasha Patel]

It's smash.

[Molly Bloom]

Move West.

[Tommy McNamara]

What aliens would smell good? That's my question. What aliens have body wash?

[Kasha Patel]

Well, now I feel like I learned a lot about your personal body odor. We're aliens to someone else, and I think I smell pretty good, so.