#146 - Advice For 20 Year Olds

Summary

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Smosh Mouth #146 – Advice For 20 Year Olds

Date: June 1, 2026
Hosts: Shayne Topp, Amanda Lehan-Canto
Guest: Rory Kramer

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Main Theme:

This episode digs deep into advice for 20-year-olds, exploring the transitions between one’s 20s and 30s, personal growth, identity, and authenticity. Through a candid conversation, the hosts and guest open up about vulnerability, gender, labels, creativity, and the unique pressures of working in entertainment. Their tone stays honest, silly, and thoughtful—a true Smosh blend.

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Episode Highlights & Key Discussions

1. Honesty Under the Camera (01:06–02:17)

• Amanda reflects on performing vs. being honest even during casual podcast recording.
  • “I have a propensity to perform…I really don’t want to do that anymore.” (01:54, Amanda)
• Shayne and Amanda talk about the challenges of dropping the ‘performer’ persona when being recorded.
• Rory joins, with teasing about being Justin Bieber’s photographer—a reference that circles throughout.

2. Meeting Your Heroes & Vulnerability (04:19–07:09)

• The group discusses the awkwardness of meeting heroes (Conan O’Brien, Meryl Streep).
• Amanda shares serving Meryl Streep at a bartending gig—“the epitome of grace.” (05:44)
• Vulnerability and honesty recur as themes. Amanda admits she sometimes drives home wondering why she overshares.

3. Labels, Language, and Relationship Terms (09:39–19:15)

• Rory poses: “At what age do you start saying ‘I’m dating a woman’?” leading to a hilarious, nuanced dissection of ‘girl,’ ‘woman,’ ‘boy,’ ‘guy,’ and ‘lady.’
• “Motherhood is the threshold to ‘woman’ for some, but it’s a vibe, a confidence thing.” (13:34, Shayne)
• Discussion on language for non-binary relationships:
  • “I’ve had this conversation many times…You tell your family I’m your lover.” (16:34, Rory)
  • Debate over words like ‘partner’—which some find businesslike or clinical.
  • Amanda: “When I got married, I hated using the word ‘husband’…it made me feel like a different type of girl.” (18:50)

4. Gender, Identity, and Grieving Former Selves (25:15–36:27)

• Rory gets deeply personal: the experience of gender fluidity, being androgynous, safety through status, and profound life changes.
  • “I became really good at being a girl…to create safety for myself.” (29:12, Rory)
  • “I’ve had this incredible sense of homesickness my entire life. Only in the last couple years figuring out gender has it alleviated.” (31:59)
• The trio reflects on grieving the loss of past identities after major personal change.
  • Amanda connects this to postpartum: “That old part of yourself is gone. Completely gone.” (34:25)
• Reflections on Rory’s ‘top surgery’ as “hanging up my jersey”—a poignant analogy for embracing change. (35:48)

5. The 20s vs. 30s Shift (37:56–46:54)

• “Your 20s are yes, yes, yes. 30s are no—with a nice thank you.” (37:56, Amanda)
• Everyone shares how the transition brings facing unresolved issues—"all the stuff you want to deal with later…comes full surface in your 30s." (37:55)
• Pressure in entertainment to act older, be responsible, balance adult responsibilities.
  • Shayne: “Suddenly you’re in your 30s and you’re like, oh, so this is my life.” (39:06)

6. Creativity, Social Roles, and Capitalism (62:02–69:47)

• Perfectionism is just fear:
  • Shayne discusses how ‘Big Magic’ reframed his perfectionism as “just fear.” (62:19)
  • The trio agrees: capitalism and productivity anxieties can taint creativity.
• Language and labels are ever-evolving; American English’s limits can shape perceptions of gender and partnerships.
• Amanda shares advice from a director: “You set the bar low so you would overachieve because you didn’t prepare...Your job is to make it worth their time, because they came here and deserve to have their time taken seriously.” (66:10)
• They emphasize intention and authenticity over chasing attention.

7. Making Content That Matters (69:00–75:29)

• Celebrating creators who take time and care (e.g., Contrapoints, FD Signifier, Drew Gooden) to make thoughtful work rather than just attention-grabbing videos.
• “People are starved for authenticity. We’ve been oversold so much.” (71:56, Shayne)
• Discussion about art taking time, patience, and bravery to commit—even if the result is ‘cringy.’

8. Bit City and Smosh Hospital Behind-the-Scenes (54:08–61:20)

• New Smosh content—Bit City—gets a hype up; the group shares hilarious anecdotes about finding and playing their characters.
• Amanda’s intense character prep (Snickers and Baileys)—“For the whole weekend…I had so much fun researching this character.” (55:16)
• Shayne’s family vlog “dad” persona: “your smile could tear flesh.” (59:59, Amanda)

9. Stand-Out Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I have a propensity to perform and I really don’t want to do that anymore.” (01:54, Amanda)
• “The experience [of transitioning] is very similar to The Matrix…You die and respawn, re-establish all the terms of your life.” (26:39, Rory)
• “I was a beautiful girl, Shayne.” / “Stop denying that you were a beautiful girl.” (35:04, Rory & Amanda, joking)
• “Perfectionism is just fear.” (62:19, Shayne)
• “You came in here on purpose, you set the bar low…Your job is to make it worth their time.” (66:10, Amanda quoting her director)

10. Advice for 20-Year-Olds (Throughout)

• Don’t be afraid to reconsider who you are—and allow yourself to go through grief as you change.
• Language matters. Use words that feel authentic for your identity or relationship, and don’t be afraid to invent new ones.
• Being honest is an ongoing practice, especially in performance and public life.
• It’s OK for intentions to change, for what’s important to shift as you get older.
• No one “graduates” into wisdom; you’ll always be learning.

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• 01:54 — Amanda’s realization on her “propensity to perform”
• 13:34–19:15 — Deep dive on ‘woman vs. girl,’ nonbinary, and relationship labels
• 26:39 — Rory likens transitioning to The Matrix
• 29:12 — Safety and expertise in performing as a “girl”
• 37:56 — Amanda’s description of the 20s-to-30s ‘yes to no’ shift
• 62:19 — Shayne on perfectionism and fear
• 66:10 — Amanda’s director’s life-changing advice

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Tone & Flow

Genuine, funny, and emotionally rich, the episode allows room for vulnerability, insight, and humor—moving seamlessly from deep talks about gender and mental health to inside jokes about Smosh productions and playful bickering. The hosts and guest create a safe space for honesty, disagreement, and creative sharing, making this a resonant listen for anyone navigating their 20s or 30s, creatives grappling with authenticity in their work, or those reflecting on life’s many roles.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Embrace the messiness of your 20s. Mistakes, false starts, and evolving identity are all part of growing up.
• Question language and labels, but honor what feels right for you.
• Value intention over attention: Whether making art or living your life, put genuine energy into what you do.
• Let go of perfectionism: It’s just fear in disguise.
• Ultimately, it’s okay to not have things figured out because nobody really does.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[A]

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Real life, real story.

[C]

Real you.

[A]

Download TikTok and get started. I don't know Justin Bieber. I need you to be very clear that I don't know Justin.

[B]

This is Rory Kramer. And all I need to say about them is they don't know who Justin Bieber is.

[A]

No, I know who he is. He means a lot to me. Doesn't like, I don't know him. His photographer's name is Rory Kramer.

[B]

Boy, I would never know that. And, man. Oh, really?

[A]

Bieber. I go, okay. I knew Bieber. I wouldn't be skateboarding with Bieber. You skateboard a thousand. Of course. Horse.

[C]

Jesus Christ would do, like, longboard or

[B]

you just keep jumping up the list of hot.

[C]

You do a kickflip. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Dude, you should see me on a skateboard.

[A]

What's up?

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

I wish I could draw. It's one of the many talents I don't have.

[C]

It's too bad you can only skateboard,

[A]

but are you guys going to be honest with me?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

What are you talking about? We're not.

[B]

Shane and I are very, very vulnerable.

[C]

This show is. This show is just like a real conversation.

[A]

I know, but we're like, being filmed. Do you know what I mean? So there's a level of perception.

[B]

I don't even see the cameras. That's what's crazy.

[C]

No, Amanda.

[A]

Camera, camera.

[C]

Amanda. I can tell you, honestly, amand it. She is not holding back.

[B]

Oh. Sometimes I drive home and I go, why did I say that?

[A]

No, no, you don't hold back. It's you. I'm trying to get to the core.

[C]

I think I can be a little bit more, like, careful with my words when the camera's on. But I'm gonna be honest. It's not a lie.

[A]

I need to work on being honest.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You think when the cameras are on, you aren't?

[A]

Yes, I think I have a propensity. Amazing word.

[C]

What the hell?

[B]

You just bumped up even hotter the vocabulary. You're at the top.

[A]

I have a propensity to perform. I've performed my entire life. My entire also. Yeah. Well, like, literally, like, if you think about gender, if you think about, like, I'm just like, oh, I. I have a propensity to perform, and I really don't Want to do that anymore?

[C]

Okay, so I gotta.

[A]

I gotta slow my role today. I gotta show up honestly.

[B]

And with that, let's begin.

[C]

Welcome to Smoshmouth. I'm Shane.

[B]

And I'm Amanda. And we have a very propensity. Oh, my God, Joyful, wonderful guest. Their name is Rory Kramer, but do not get it twisted. They are not Justin Bieber's photographer, but if they were, they'd be skateboarding with Justin Bieber. Biebs. Hey, Rory Kramer. Can we say Biebs?

[A]

I love him more than anything. You know, on that pot the Lost Cultures podcast, and they say, what's the culture that made you say culture was for you?

[C]

It's Justin Bieber.

[A]

It's Biebs. It's Bieber.

[C]

Has it been from the beginning?

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah. I remember where I was.

[B]

I remember where I was when Bieber was born.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I remember I was like an early Kid Raw. This is like, YouTube channel was kid Raw. And I. I was an early. I found him early, and I was like, I'm obsessed with this kid, his talent, his whatever. And then I would look him up on. On itunes all the time, trying to find music that came out. This was so long ago. And then I remember I was in. I was in Chile, and we were skiing, and I went inside to use the computer and I went to, like, the iTunes top 10, and one time was. Was charting, and I went, oh, my God, that. That's that kid. And then I like, scaffolded my entire. I think I'm Justin Bieber.

[B]

So Rory. Rory is Justin Bieber. Also. Rory was born in Argentina.

[A]

Chile.

[C]

Chile.

[B]

You were born in Argentina.

[A]

I'm. I'm half and half.

[B]

Okay, so I got it half right.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

The other thing about Rory also is Rory is incredible. We love Rory. And Rory also directed Smosh Hospital and also created and directed two episodes on Bit City that is coming out, I think, next week.

[A]

They're on the felt board.

[B]

Oh, my God. Hey. So Selena's incredible and does this felt board, and I didn't even look at it. Watch their episodes on bit City. 612 and 7 10. They're so funny. Both Shane and I are in there, which we will touch on. But also, I just have to dive in a little bit more into your love for Biebs.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Is this a type of thing where you would want to meet and hang out? You know, some people don't want to meet.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Their heroes don't meet your heroes. I'm that way yeah, same.

[A]

Have you met any heroes?

[C]

I could have, but I genuinely like, if I see them, I'm like, nah. Like, I saw Conan o' Brien at a music festival a year ago and I remember being like, whoa. Like, I love Conan o'. Brien. His comedy is so influential for me. Like, I really like so much of what I've learned over the years. I try to, like, model after him, but I was like, I don't want to say hi to him. Like, we'll let him be.

[B]

Was he like, singing and, you know,

[C]

he was just walking around like he wasn't there.

[B]

That was the time to stretch him up.

[A]

Massive.

[C]

Oh, he's the tallest man. He's taller than me, but I think he's so funny. But I was just like, I don't need to. I love, like, I love the work that people do.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't. I'm like, I don't know you, and I don't want to be. I don't want to. I don't want to, like, mess up what I enjoy about the work. If I meet you and you're kind of an asshole.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Or if you're just having a bad day or whatever, I'm just like, I'm just gonna let you be.

[B]

Do you know I met because I was weirdly bartending their party forever ago. This is wild. Meryl Streep.

[C]

What?

[B]

And. And her daughters. I was bartending a party at her son's house, and it was just me, Gracie Gummoe. Who's that?

[A]

Is that her daughter?

[C]

You just made up a name?

[A]

Gracie Gummo is her last name.

[B]

Gummo Gummer. You know what?

[C]

Nailed it.

[B]

Honestly, you're probably right. But I cared. So. So. Meryl Streep, I will say.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Was incredible. Really the epitome of grace. Just so wonderful, so welcoming and funny.

[C]

She was just hilarious.

[B]

She was so relaxed and so. And she looked impeccable. So anyways. Beeps.

[A]

Yeah, My ex girlfriend looks a lot like Meryl Streep.

[B]

What?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you serious?

[A]

I only realized later I was watching. I was watching. What's that movie with Alec Baldwin? No.

[C]

No.

[B]

Oh, like, it's complicated or. It's complicated. Hey, stop copying me. This is crazy.

[A]

Nora Efron. It's complicated. And the whole time I was like, oh, my God, she looks just like my ex girlfriend. But I didn't realize it until. And we haven't been together for years. Do you.

[B]

Did you that make you want to go back with your ex?

[A]

It's complicated.

[B]

It's complicated.

[A]

It was Just really. It's. It was really jarring because, like, they look. Yeah, they look really similar.

[B]

You don't want to get into it. You just said that we were supposed to be vulnerable and real.

[A]

I'll be vulnerable. Rory, she won't listen to this.

[B]

Okay, so, Rory, you also struggle to be vulnerable and real.

[A]

No, no, I. Well, I actually kind of do, which

[B]

I actually don't think is true, because every time I've hung out with you,

[C]

you are, like, the most. You feel like such an open book.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, every conversation, we'll be hanging out at lunch in between, like, shooting insane sketches for Bit City, and we'll sit down for lunch, and you'll just be like, so what's, like, inspiring you guys lately?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, you'll just throw out, like, a really deep question.

[A]

I wonder if that's a safety blanket.

[B]

That's a safety blanket. Because guess what? They're not really talking about throwing it away. Their stuff. They're, like, interviewing.

[A]

Oh, okay. Try to have a. You watched me and Angela try to have a conversation, and nothing gets talked.

[B]

I have. I have.

[A]

We'll text each other, and it'll be. She was texting me the other day.

[C]

You guys are playing Pong. It's just, like, going back and forth.

[A]

Kong. It's. Imagine a tennis court, and instead of facing each other, we're facing away. And behind us are walls that we're hitting the ball into and it's flying over us and then hitting the other person's back.

[C]

Whoa.

[B]

That actually makes. Like, what do you guys actually accomplish when you text?

[A]

We Truly. The other day, she was. Yeah, I was texting her, and I was like, yeah, dude, I'm kind of mid crash out. And she goes, damn, fam. And I go, yep. And I go, absolutely. For real. How you doing? She goes, what does she say?

[B]

Is it all in caps?

[A]

Sometimes. Well, actually, a lot of the time.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

And then she said she'll text me sometimes something that's like. She'll say, you're a perfect human. I love you. Never leave. And then she said, enjoy yoga. I said, thank you so much.

[C]

Enjoy yoga.

[A]

And then she said, I just told you that I thought you were a perfect human. And you responded to me with xyz. And then I said, oh, I need to thaw out. And then I sent her a bunch of vulnerable, like, archival footage and pictures and videos, and I was like, this will have to do for now.

[B]

You also. I will say, you take time to process things and respond with the right thing.

[A]

That's so nice to hear.

[B]

Yeah, you do. Because I'm very vulnerable with you. You'll be like, oh, you did great. And I get deep. And you're like, wow, thank you so much for writing that all out. And here's the thing. It's not with everybody, but with you, I feel very open and safe.

[A]

Oh, man, that's so. I feel so. Yeah, that's such a privilege. Because I. I had texted Amanda about. I asked what the biggest difference between being in your 20s and your 30s are. Yeah, cuz, baby, I'm. I'm bumping up.

[B]

Honey, I'm bumping up. No, you're not. You're in your 20s.

[A]

I'm in my 20s.

[B]

Yeah, you're.

[A]

But I'm like the oldest. I feel like the oldest person alive.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

I'm 29, just kind of overseeing all the 20 year olds moving through their.

[B]

There are people who are a hundred, Rory. Okay, so you texted me, but then,

[A]

you know, then I'll turn 30 and then I'll be the youngest person to ever live. I'll be the youngest person. You guys, now I'll be the youngest 30 year old.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, that is so true. When you're 29, you're old. When you're 30, you're young. It's weird.

[A]

We can ask you guys a question about something and then we're gonna come back to this, because I do. Yeah. At what age do you start saying I'm dating a woman? Like, what? How old did they. The woman. How old does the person have to be to be like, I'm dating this woman?

[B]

60s. I'm just kidding.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? Like, if I came to you and I was like, oh, I'm dating this girl or this person.

[B]

Yeah, you are always saying girl. So I feel like when you say woman, it's. You've decided that's where you're at. And woman to me, if you said I'm dating a woman, I. I picture her a little bit older, of course,

[A]

but what's the age? Fifties.

[B]

Fifties.

[A]

This is where it gets interesting.

[B]

Okay, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, It's a little 45 and up. Cause there are some 41 year old girls.

[A]

But like, imagine if I came to you and I said. I said, amanda, I'm dead. What the hell? Hold on. That happens all the time. It has to.

[B]

It does, it does. It's crazy.

[A]

It's like Shane and Chance. For some reason, my brain cannot. Like, I will interchange your names for some reason.

[B]

Rory, you better finish this thought I'm hanging on by a spread.

[C]

People haven't say, me and chance are the same.

[A]

I can't see you. I say, oh, I'm dating this girl. You go, oh, cool. It's like, oh, she's 40. She's like. Like, if I came to you and I was like, I'm dating this girl who's 40. Okay, so does that. But then I'm like, but what if I'm 40 and she's 40, and you

[B]

said, I'm dating this girl, I'd be

[A]

like, dating this girl. Right?

[B]

Yeah. If you were dating a woman, to me, that means, like, she's older, she's mature, she's. She's lived, she's divorced, she broke up with a man.

[C]

Interesting. I almost see. I feel like she's already had a

[B]

life with a man.

[C]

I think you could compare it to when, like, a. Someone's talking about, like, oh, I'm dating a boy. Like, I'm dating this boy. Like, you know, I think it's just more about how someone carries.

[B]

A boy is different than a girl, though, in my opinion.

[A]

And boys get. They get. They graduate to guy. There's guy, and then there's three levels.

[B]

There's three levels, like, you're dating, like, a boy.

[A]

Hit the comments, let us know.

[C]

I think. But there's a certain age where do you think it's almost an insult to be called a boy or a girl. Or a girl.

[A]

For sure.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

I say, what if. What if I date someone? She's. Let's say she's 34, but she has a child. And I'm saying, I'm dating this girl.

[B]

You know, she's a woman.

[A]

Of course.

[C]

See that?

[B]

Motherhood.

[C]

Like, at a certain age, though, I'm just like.

[B]

It's how you're passing over. You're passing over a certain part of your life.

[C]

I don't think there's like, a degree or an accomplishment you get that makes you a woman, though.

[B]

Can I say a hot take here?

[A]

What's the 10? What was that?

[B]

10 minutes. 10 minutes for what? That's your attend.

[C]

Don't worry, you're not directing.

[B]

You're not directing. You can just relax.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

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[C]

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[C]

Well, back to the show.

[B]

What were you saying? I couldn't even like really hear you.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Anyways, meow, meow, meow. See you soon.

[C]

Going back though. I think it's like it's how someone carries themselves. Like it's how like someone. It's a confidence thing. Like there's no accomplishment. There's no job or a family or anything you can have that's like you're now a woman. It's just like truly like. I think it's almost a decision.

[B]

I think it's a vibe. But what I want to say is a hot take is I don't get upset if you would call me a girl.

[C]

I sold my car in Carvana last night.

[B]

Well, that's cool.

[C]

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

[B]

So what's the problem?

[C]

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.

[B]

Maybe there's no catch.

[C]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[B]

Wow. You need to relax.

[C]

I need a knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood?

[B]

I think it's laminate.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That's good. That's close enough.

[B]

Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. I don't. That doesn't bother me. I think it's cute when obviously an older man says okay, Girls. I'm like, okay, bro.

[C]

You could almost argue, like, the true ultimate evolution of a person is to contain both multitudes.

[A]

And that would be right, because you

[C]

don't want to lose. Because some people, like, get older and they're like, well, I'm a. I'm a man.

[B]

I'm like.

[C]

And they lose. They lose the, like, the fun of like. No, you still want to keep that part of you.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

But it's adding the like. It's having both. Being able to be both.

[B]

Like, if you said, I'm dating a lady, I'd be like, oh, let's go in.

[A]

Treats in her purse.

[B]

And she comes out of her carriage on her person. She has six white little dogs.

[C]

She has her gloves.

[B]

She takes it off.

[C]

I'm dating a lady.

[B]

She has Werther's in her purse.

[A]

I'm not against. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what about they thems?

[B]

What about it?

[C]

I still think I. To me.

[B]

What do you say?

[C]

To me? It's just like, to me, it's just like a adult. Like, just someone, like, dating an adult. Dating an adult.

[B]

I don't like.

[C]

I don't know. I don't know terminology.

[B]

I am dating an adult now also.

[C]

There's just a, like a level of just like, people who. I'm like, yeah, you're fudgeing grown up.

[B]

What do you say? They them. What do you say?

[A]

Well, how. This conversation with me.

[B]

I'm dating a person.

[A]

Love dating.

[B]

You can fudge.

[A]

They can laugh.

[B]

They are laughing.

[A]

She's like, holding it in.

[B]

No, she's not.

[A]

Alex in a shoe.

[B]

That's just how Alexina laughs. It's very cute and sweet. Alexina is a girl and a woman for sure. She's not a lady. Well, she can be a lady.

[A]

Lady, lady.

[B]

Okay, keep going. Jesus.

[A]

So what about a they them, right? Because this is. Well, I'm on the cutting edge here, right?

[C]

With all the names.

[B]

You are seriously on the cutting edge. It's crazy.

[A]

On the cutting edge of they themselves.

[B]

So would you say, I'm dating someone? I'm dating someone. Partner the person.

[A]

But here's the thing that always happens. So let's say someone's having a conversation. They're talking about they're dating a non binary person. And they go, yeah, well, I'm dating this person. Girl. No, like, I'm dating someone. They're. They're a person. They go, okay. And they're non binary. Which is also the most clinical term for something that means kind of want to.

[C]

You want to have some Badass terms.

[B]

Wait, what do people say when they're dating you because you're they them?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Do you consider yourself non binary, period, because you're they them? Let's discuss this. I'm going into my book. So, yeah, what does I say?

[A]

I've had this conversation many times with people I've dated because this comes up, they go, what do I tell my family? I say, you tell your family I'm your lover.

[B]

Okay, okay. That. That's assuming a lot, Rory.

[A]

Well, you go ahead and assume, babe.

[B]

Okay. You prefer lover, nothing else.

[A]

I think it's hilarious.

[B]

I think it's hilarious.

[A]

I think it's hilarious to go to like, a friend's birthday party of, like, the person you're dating and for them

[B]

to be like, my lover's coming in. My mate is coming in.

[A]

My mate. This is my lover. Cause, partner. I'm sorry. No, no foul.

[C]

Whoa, partner.

[B]

Feels like you're like, really buttoned up and you're in a business.

[A]

Sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like you negotiate. Well, I guess relationships are negotiation. That's.

[C]

That's beautiful that aspect exists. But you're talking about, like the kind of like, fun. Yeah.

[A]

I think love my. The light of my life.

[B]

I think light of my life. Sounds like you're. It's a funeral time. When they walk in a room. They were just. They lit up the room.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, lover. Lover is good, though, because I do feel like that's. That's like a grown ass term.

[B]

Lover is really cute.

[C]

I think that. I don't think that fits for boy or girl. Right? Like, it's like, no, you got to eat. You got to know a lot of shit. You gotta.

[B]

Like, to me, lover is. You're like, you don't take life too seriously, but you really are super connected to this person. And you guys, yes, you can talk about money and then have sex.

[C]

There's a. There's a responsibility and a respectfulness.

[B]

You can talk about your budget and your finances and that debt and you

[C]

can fucking fuck and then you can fuck later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hell yeah.

[A]

Wait, so.

[B]

But for real, they fist bump.

[A]

They.

[B]

They them fist bump.

[A]

I would actually like a subtitle, a subtitle that when you cut to us fist bumping, it says they, them. They them fist bump.

[B]

They them fist bump. So they them have had a really good time on set.

[A]

Yeah. But I really hit the comments. I'm sure a lot of they thems listen to them.

[B]

I'm so interested in this too, because what if someone assumed that you Would want partner.

[A]

Would that be a discussion where they have this conversation? They go, I'm going to introduce you to my family as my partner. I'm going to say, no, you're not.

[B]

Okay. So you immediately are like, no, I'm

[A]

already, I'm already foreign to them. You're going to make me your partner. This is. I wish there was a better term and I might have to come up with one.

[B]

I kind of agree. Like, I wish, I wish there was because this is totally different. But like when I got married, I actually hated using the word husband.

[C]

Whoa.

[B]

It made me feel like a different type of girl. Cause like my husband's that. It made me feel that way. Which is like very sad. Cause that's such a societal thing. Because he is my husband, he's my lover, he's my mate, he's, you know, he's my best friend, whatever. But it's like I really didn't like using husband. So I say H, which is his name. But I'm like, what is that connotation with husband? Because I married him, he is my husband. I think it's like, I don't know. We use these terms to describe our people and I think some people use it in a way that I don't like. So I think that it's tainted it forever. Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And it is bespoke. Right. Person to person. Like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Cuz we're all so different individually. But I get that you say what. I don't actually you say Courtney. I. Yeah. Wife does feel weird.

[A]

I do want to be clear. When other people use partner. It does. I'm not. I don't have judgment.

[B]

It's just about you.

[A]

It's about me specifically.

[C]

And I think that's fair. And I think everybody's that way.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

To some degree. I think it. I think what we, what we see in a society is like weird to put the pressure on. Like this is the, this is the term like that you have to use.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No. I don't know. I think it's same where I like. It feels so sitcommy. Like when I say my wife, I feel like I'm like king of queens over here.

[A]

My ball.

[C]

My wife.

[B]

My ball is.

[C]

No, it just doesn't. Yeah.

[B]

My old lady.

[C]

I also think like, want to know

[A]

how to make a marriage last. Yeah.

[C]

Shut up and do whatever she says. Make your wife do what she says. Let her win every item.

[B]

Happy wife, happy life.

[A]

Yeah. I don't.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like throw up.

[C]

I think all that true Is there throw up?

[B]

Throw up?

[C]

Vomit. I also think I, I don't know. I, I, I'd have to think about it more. It's just a feeling. Like I'm just, like, I just don't. Just doesn't feel right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Like, I don't mind it. Yeah, it'll, I'll say it like it's the legal term. What's weird, I sometimes also think, like, best friend almost feels like it ranks higher.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

That's a higher accomplishment.

[A]

I completely. That's so beautiful.

[B]

I think, because a lot of people get married and I don't know if they really enjoy hanging out with their wife.

[C]

The amount of husbands hate their wives, like, are just, well, husbands who are incapable of being best friends with crazy. Anyone who's not a man.

[B]

Like, they're like, God, I gotta get out of the house. My wife is driving so great.

[C]

I actually think it's a, it's an institution. And it's a label that doesn't have much. Like, what does it mean?

[B]

So should we bring back the label in a better way? Because here's the deal. Sometimes H will say, oh, my wife Amanda. First of all, he never calls me Amanda ever. Like, never calls me by my full name. Unless. Unless he's like. Unless he's, like, upset.

[C]

Has he forgotten your name?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

He's like, sherry.

[B]

He doesn't know my name.

[A]

Angela.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

He literally doesn't know my name. He keeps calling me Nikita. He's like, nikita. But he never really calls me by my full name. And when he does, I'm like, oh. But sometimes he'll be like, oh, this is my wife, Amanda. And there's some, like, nice pride about it that I'm like, oh, that also.

[C]

Yeah, you can't say my wife. Cause Borat ruined that.

[A]

My wife.

[C]

What does he call you?

[B]

Is it really attractive when a guy brings up that thing that when he says my wife has, like, a funny thing?

[C]

Do you think it's attractive?

[B]

No.

[C]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

I was just asking you guys.

[A]

That's some straight stuff. Also, I hear straight people are pegging now. That's like a whole thing.

[B]

They love it.

[A]

That's. All of them are talking.

[B]

I hear about it. They love it.

[C]

We made a joke, like, seven years ago. We wrote a sketch where I played a character that wanted to get pegged by a giant vampire.

[B]

Wait, wasn't that me?

[C]

You later played it in A Lady.

[B]

I was, I was lady from Resident Evil. And you wanted to get paid.

[C]

But it's Become the joke. That. That's. That's because of that one.

[B]

But I don't think it's a joke. I think, like, literally, I think they're just curious and interested.

[A]

I just. I go, oh, please. Yeah, please do it. Just do it.

[B]

Explore. Have a good time.

[A]

Yeah, have a good time.

[C]

Can I ask a vulnerable question?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

After pegging, of course, you guys took that really well.

[C]

It's less extreme, but I actually feel like it's a more hot topic of, like. I feel like tons of straight couples use partner.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Definitely.

[C]

And that's something I didn't see until a couple years ago. And I'm. I. I don't know.

[B]

Do you think they do it? So you ask.

[C]

Do you think? I guess it's like, I'm curious and I love. It's one of those things where I'm like, I don't know. But is it straight couples trying to be like, oh, we're an ally, so we're doing it to, like, normalize it, or is it also to kind of like. Or is it kind of to also some straight couples to be like, we're not. We're straight, but we're. Oh, do you think we're cool?

[B]

Oh, you think they're like, yes, yes. They're like, we accept. We accept. They. Them. We accept everything that's going on. So this is my partner, do you think?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can I add my 2 cents?

[A]

Selena wants to pop in the ring Royal Rumble.

[B]

No. For me, I say partner because saying boyfriend is childish.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

And I don't know another word to say.

[C]

And that comes back to, like, the boy and the girl thing. Like saying girlfriend.

[B]

Saying boyfriend, it's like, because you don't have to be married to, like, say partner, boyfriend, or girlfriend.

[C]

That reminds me of how, like, after Courtney and I got married, I'm like, I know so many couples who aren't married, but I'm like, but they've been together for, like, 10 to 15 years. And I'm like, you guys are kind

[A]

of more like graduating.

[C]

You are.

[B]

And then that's the married thing. That's the society.

[C]

Like, married as married as. Or more like, you don't need to

[B]

get married to have a solid relationship.

[C]

But I get that you can be together with someone for 20 years. And it's like, well, I get the partner. Boyfriend. But no, well.

[A]

And that totally makes sense as, like, an interim to, like, in between, like, okay, boyfriend feels young. We're not married, so there has to be, like, something kind of in the middle Partner and partner makes sense. I just want everybody to feel good.

[C]

You know what my, my, you know what my. I've had this thought lately is just that I'm like, oh, the English, like the, the English language is going through like evolution.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And it's really weird for people. And language is what affects our reality. Right. It's like language creates culture, it creates everything. So words are spelled. We're realizing our language is so limited in under, like our understanding of things. It's why. I wonder if it's why we see so many people just cannot comprehend so many realities of humans. And especially when it comes to gender and stuff, they just cannot comprehend it. It's like, yes. Because we don't. We're coming up with the words to describe it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And you have to trust.

[B]

Especially like a name change.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like they don't. I think there are some people who make it like, very intense when you mess up a new language. And it's just like they have been trained on this old language for whatever, 70 years. It takes a second for them to figure it out. So I think there needs to be given grace on both sides of that completely.

[A]

Well, that is something that with gender, in my own experience of it has been as long as somebody is trying, or if somebody comes to me with a true curiosity and they mess up, I'm like, oh, I'm here with you for as long as you need to figure this out. If somebody comes to me with any kind of debating tone or they don't want the way I shut off completely. Like, I just.

[C]

You can recognize disrespect.

[B]

What do you do? Cause it's not your job to educate them. So what do you do when that happens?

[A]

It's so sad because it's such an opportunity when somebody comes to me with curiosity. There are so many things I could talk to you guys about gender wise. That.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is fascinating.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it really is. Taking the the Matrix pill. Like you with like transness. It's literally about.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The. I, I heard that recently that the Matrix is about transness. Yeah, yeah. Because both of the, the sisters who made it are.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yep, yep, yep.

[A]

But they realized it after the fact.

[C]

That's so fascinating.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

The experience of it is very similar to the Matrix because you essentially die and respawn. Like that's how it feels like. It feels like I've died and then re. Established all the terms of my life and had to. And what's interesting about gender versus sexuality, because when I came out as gay, that's a different thing. Because when you come out as gay, you kind of go, I'm gay, and there's nothing you can do about it. Gender is so much, in my experience, is so much more vulnerable because you come forward and you're like, okay, so I'm going through all this gender shifting, and I do need you to participate. And that is really right, because when

[B]

you're gay, you don't need everybody to participate. In fact, you don't really. You don't need their permission or anything. But when you are going through. Now, I do have a question. Did you always feel this way about your gender?

[A]

1,000%. I have a video of myself at one and a half I can send to you guys. I have this video of myself at one and a half and I. This, like, little girl in my mom's best friend's arms, and I'm whispering in her ear, and she goes, wait, what are you saying? What are you saying? You're a boy. You're a boy. I'm like, truly one and a half. Like, toddling across the table. Some of my earliest memories.

[B]

That is wild.

[C]

I remember I took a psychology of gender class in college, and they talked about studies where they're like, yeah, we were able to pinpoint and see it so early on.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Like, it's. It's not like there's no cultural influence to it. It. It's just kind of there from the beginning.

[B]

But.

[A]

Yeah, but for.

[B]

But for a while, like, you just kind of just kept going.

[A]

Well, my circumstances were. Everybody has a different story, but my circumstances were. I was. I was. I've always been androgynous my entire life. Like, I don't. I don't know if I'm necessarily full boy. Like, I. I like being in the middle. I feel a bit alien. Like, I'm like, I. I identify with parts of both, but I don't fully identify with one or the other. And it kind of changes from day to day. But my experience was I was always really androgynous, always with the boys, always played sports. Classic, classic. But in middle school, my dad died and that. And at the same time, people were kind of getting sorted into piles. Like it was boys over here, girls over here. Yeah. And I got sorted into the wrong pile. And to create safety for myself, I learned that status was very helpful in creating a sense of safety at a time when I didn't have safety. So I became really good at being a girl. I was a really good girl.

[B]

You showed me a picture of You.

[A]

I was awesome.

[B]

Because here's what.

[A]

I'll send you the picture. You can put it up here.

[B]

Here's what's crazy about Rory. I mean, I don't know if Rory remembers this, but the first time I met Rory.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you remember me from when I worked as a bartender? Yeah. Yeah, years ago. And you were like, I was a girl then, so you probably wouldn't. And I was like, oh, my God.

[A]

I was girl. I was.

[B]

You were girl.

[A]

Method actor. Good.

[C]

You were the Meryl Streep.

[A]

I'm the Meryl Streep of being girl.

[B]

And that's saying, I'll talk to her and tell her that I would say

[A]

that to her face. So you think you're good? Try doing this for 25 years. That's actually really good. I'm really good.

[B]

This episode of Smoshmouth is sponsored by Daily Look. Shane. I'm a mom on the move. I've got places to go, people to see. See?

[C]

You are genuinely very busy. I don't know how you balance it all.

[B]

I don't either. But the secret is finding shortcuts that make my life easier. Like, I don't have time to go to a store to shop. I barely even have time to shop online. This is so true. That's why I use Daily Look. Daily look is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. With Daily look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist to curate a box of clothes. And based on your body shape preferences and lifestyle. My stylist, who is a real person, gives me up to 12 options, and I just click through what I like and don't like, and then a pretty little box arrives on my doorstep.

[C]

Sounds like you cracked the code.

[B]

I did. Oh, I. I cracked it. And I look good while doing it. Do you remember my pink sweater? It's, like, kind of wavy and has different color pinks. It is so cute. And I actually never buy sweaters for myself, but the stylist picked them out for me, and I wear them all the time. And I get so many compliments.

[C]

Yeah, you compliment me. Yeah, I do.

[B]

I remember.

[C]

And a lot of people do. A lot of people complimented that sweater.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[C]

Genuinely.

[B]

It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use code smoshmouth for 50% off your first order. Once again, that's daily look.com for 50% off. And make sure you use my promo code Smoshmouth. So they know that I sent you one last time. Dailylook.com and promo code. Smoshmouth.

[C]

Back to the show.

[B]

Let's do it, buddy. Back to the show.

[C]

We can't go back.

[B]

No, we're stuck here.

[C]

We're stuck here forever.

[B]

Your dad died. You got sorted into the wrong pile, and then you were like.

[A]

Like, I needed safety.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I didn't have people around me and. Or, like, grief was so unbelievable. I was 11 when he died, and the grief was, like, immeasurable, and I didn't have someone to process it with. With. So the only thing the adult side of myself knew to do was to seek safety through belonging. The way to do that, growing up in the United States was through status.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I've had this incredible sense of homesickness my entire life. My entire, like, just this feeling of homesickness. And only in the last couple years figuring out gender has it, like, alleviated.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because if you think about it, and this is something I do have questions for you guys about the difference between being in your 20s and your 30s. I think one of the things that surprises me the most about the experience moving through gender identity is the amount of grief that you experience. Because when I look at my 20s and I look at the mistakes that I made or it was always really hard for me to connect with people, which is why I'm was telling you guys at the beginning this. Like, I need to, like, just let you guys ask me questions and. Yeah, let it be. Because I'm so used to being. I can trick myself into thinking I'm connecting when really what I'm doing is controlling.

[B]

You're controlling the narrative, controlling the conversation, to stay.

[A]

To stay safe, to move the dials. And it's not very interesting anymore to do that. But when I look at my 20s, it's really hard sometimes because there were so many moments where I really could have connected with certain people, and I wasn't able to because I didn't know that I was lying.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Whoa. Yeah.

[A]

I didn't know that I wasn't showing up. And it was this feeling of, like, something is missing, something is wrong, and I. I have no idea what it is. I couldn't figure it out in therapy. I couldn't figure it out with my friends because a lot of my friends, even to this day, like, I have friends who are genderqueer, but, like, I was not. I did not have any trans people in my life. I. Yeah, hardly. I'm friends with a lot of sensitive men. That's kind of my. My bag. Like an army of sensitive men.

[C]

Am I an army of Biebs? I'm sensitive of Biebers, of Beebs.

[B]

Just like, yeah, well, that makes sense.

[A]

I'm still kind of dealing with that. Of just being like, oh, there are kind of some ghosts from my past where I really hope at some point we can have a conversation about it, because it was impossible. Even relationships. I'm like, why couldn't I? Oh, I couldn't. Because I'm, like, in my body for the first time now.

[B]

I think we underestimate the grieving process. And I don't just mean with your dad, with this grieving process of your whole body shift, identity shift. You go through all of the stages, and it's really scary to be very honest about. And the only way that I can relate in the littlest bit is just postpartum of just this, like, oh, I had my therapist be like, oh, everything you're describing, this, like, unbelievable anger that surges out. This deep sadness, this hopelessness, this weird, excited, like you're on drugs, joy. All at the same time, this deep understanding and then this massive confusion. She's like, oh, yeah, you're grieving. That old part of yourself is gone. Completely gone. And so I can't even imagine having it gone inside physically. But also you're at, like, another level of it being gone physically, too.

[A]

Well, I remember when I got top surgery. Cause I was again, beautiful girl. So, like, I benefited.

[B]

Yeah, you were. You were a beautiful girl. You still are, honey.

[A]

I was a beautiful girl, Shane.

[B]

Stop denying that you were a beautiful girl.

[C]

As the famous poet Justin Bieber said.

[A]

Yes. Yes. But I was. I benefited a lot from being that way. Like, the system for women. I was in this. In the spot of, like, I benefit the most from this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so to give it up when

[C]

I got top, but you're living in the matrix.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. But I was, like, the intersection of, like, actually figuring this out, because I'm kind of on the other side of it now. But at the time when I was really in my head and really sorting through all these feelings, I remember being like, oh, yeah, of course I want to get surgery. But that would be like, hanging up my jersey.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[C]

Damn. Yeah.

[A]

Because I'm like, oh, I can't, like, it's not a party trick anymore. Like, I can't, like, suddenly just flip a switch and be.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

You're drawing the line.

[A]

Yeah, fully. I'm changing my literal body so that, like, my. The invitation to go play on that Side and kind of play in that way or perform in that way is completely out the window. Yeah.

[C]

And you'd worked on that role for so long.

[A]

I know, I know.

[C]

Crushing it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Actually, you really are Meryl Streep. But beyond Meryl Streep.

[A]

Yeah. Except. Except when you go to the ArcLight and they have, like, the cases of, like, you know, famous costumes from roles. Instead of a beautiful dress. It's just my boobs.

[B]

Your boobs are just up there.

[A]

It's a cast of.

[B]

There's a line waiting to see that.

[A]

But that's a really interesting part. I mean, there's so many different parts of this experience. It's insane.

[C]

Yeah. And it's interesting cause. Yeah. You're, like, swimming upstream against society's pressures and stuff with it.

[A]

You know, it is the greatest splash of cold water. Also, it. Your ability to observe other people and see where their pain lives is like suddenly, it's like X ray vision.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You see it so you feel it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what's so funny. Now I understand why you're a little bit worried to get into your 30s. Cause when you texted me, what's the difference between 20s and 30s, man, did I send. I sent them a. I wouldn't say it's a novel, but I sent. I really thought about it. Cause I loved that question. Because I think your 20s are. Yes. Like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm just doing everything. I'm going to try everything. And then your 30s are no. And the nos are really sharp in the beginning. And then they're like a no, thank you. And I feel like your 30s, you don't have the choice. You're faced with all the shadow selves regardless. So, like, your 20s, it kind of like appears. And you're like, what's this about? I don't know. I'll deal with it later. And then all that stuff that you want to deal with later just. It comes full surface in your 30s, you have no control over it. If you are on the path of wanting to, you know, figure yourself out,

[A]

what would be an example of that?

[C]

So I made that shit up just now. What did I just say? Actually, no, none of that's real. I have no idea what's going on.

[B]

It's when people go, well, yeah, you always do this. And you're like. And you get so angry about it. And then, like, days later, and you go, wait, do I always do that? Or was that person just rude? And then you go, oh, my God, Wait, I always do that. I always do that. Why did that make me so mad? Why do I always do that? Where does that come from? So it's like you go down this journey and to me it feels like it's right in front of your face every morning of just like, this is who you are. This is who you are. And some of it's great.

[A]

I think that's starting to wash up on shore for me now. Like, for some reason overnight, I suddenly cannot tolerate doing things I don't want to do yet. So I, like, cannot tolerate my body will not.

[B]

You're ready for your 30s.

[C]

Yeah, but it's the thing that not Everybody in their 30s or 40s, that's what I'm saying. 50s stops. Like, some people go their whole life

[B]

if you're not like, open to that. I mean, my God, look at our, look at our parents or that generation. Like, I think maybe that's washing up on shore for them now.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think for me it was definitely a bit of. Maybe it was like a child actor thing of just like always, like, oh, what is my career going to be? What is my life going to be? What am I working towards? And then suddenly you're in your 30s and you're like, oh, so this is my life. Like, this is who I am.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

There's no working towards. I mean, there always is working towards. But I'm like, oh, I. My life and who I am. And that's today. And I doing what I can do today. And I'm enjoying my life today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, I've been thinking a lot about that. I've built a whole career following the dreams of like a 14 year old Biebs.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Me, like a traumatized 14 year old who's like, you know what's gonna save me? Hollywood. I mean.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I'm like, oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah, but Rory, you, you are doing really well.

[A]

But that, but you're saying regardless of

[C]

doing well, your career started when you were a kid.

[A]

Yes, but also because I'm doing well, I'm being. Which is very sweet of you to say. I am being faced with moments of like, oh my God, I thought this would solve everything. Oh, sure.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

It's not.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

I feel that I feel sober to

[A]

what you're talking about specifically, though, about, like, I just want to be happy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I literally, I don't care about it. I'm like, oh, I, I. All of the rest of it can go. I just want to be happy and enjoy it. Which is why I'M so happy to be.

[B]

But then you're in the present moment, and that's when you feel so happy. But that negative brain seeps in and goes, what are you doing? What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? So to me, it's the battle of when you are present, doing really what you want. That is the big magic. That's the joy. That's when, like, nature's colors are like, oh, my God, look at that green plant. Look at that flower. But then I think it's battling that, that negative part of your brain that literally is like, this is what you're gonna do all day.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I saw this Instagram thing that I was just like, oh, my God. It was like, anyone else have a baby and just wanna quit everything and just be with your baby 24 7? It's not realistic. But, like, you do. Because I think the part of that is that you see, they see everything for the first time. So you get to go, yeah, look at those leaves in the wind. That's cool. Let's try to touch it. Whoa. And it's like this. It is very big picture. Zoom out.

[A]

Have you ever heard the song the Mother by Brandi Carlisle?

[B]

Of course. I love that song so much. The song makes me cry.

[A]

It makes me cry. And I'm not even the mother up to that.

[B]

The rose. Bette Midler. Stop. But also, Brandy Carlisle just did a duet with her wife.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, it's really good.

[A]

Mother. And you'd by Justin Bieber.

[B]

I guess they call her her wife, so there's that. Just going back to people calling each other partners.

[A]

Oh, wife.

[B]

Yeah, fine.

[A]

I get the partner thing. I just. I wish Americans were more creative with their language. Like, the Italians have words for everything.

[B]

What would you say where you're from? Chile. Argentina.

[A]

Esposa.

[B]

Esposa.

[A]

But my friend and I used to make up words because we felt this way. Like, we came up. We used to make up fake Italian. Sorry if this is insensitive to the Italians in the chat, but we used to make up fake.

[C]

You hate them.

[A]

So it's.

[B]

Stop saying that. That's what's crazy.

[C]

We hate our Italian.

[B]

Shut up.

[A]

But, yeah, we used to make up fake Italian words. So one of the words that I remember we made up was like, you know when you're, like, hooking up with somebody and, like, you're kind of staring into the ceiling, like, you're so not there. You're like, this is just, like, bad. And I'm, like, not connected to this And I'm kind of just like, look, breaking the fourth wall with some, like, fake audience or.

[B]

Oh, yeah, of course. Because the camera's always there. Always. You're like, whoa, the camera of my life.

[A]

We used to call that pressora. They go, how was it? How was it with them?

[B]

That's way better than being like, I wanted to die, what I just said.

[C]

Yeah. Makes it a little bit easier to kind of get past.

[B]

I love that Italians very.

[C]

The Italians watching this are like, that's a real. That's a real word, and that's what it means. You nailed it, actually. Correct. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's really good to hear this. That, like, you guys are two very grounded people in your 30s.

[B]

We're both in our 30s.

[C]

I mean, it's.

[A]

It's pretty cool.

[C]

A lot of stuff continues. Like, it's not like, oh, I turned 30, and, boy, you know, I was able to shrug off all these things. Like, it's all there. You just start to, like. I almost feel like in some ways, like, the difficulty on, like, my ego got cranked up. Like, it's like, all right, we're continuing. It's like, oh, now we're going to hard mode. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, if I don't.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

If I don't clock my ego more, it gets harder and harder and harder things. Just because I'm like, oh, I'm. I'm older. Like, I've have. I have more experience, and I'm making this mistake, and I'm not doing this. Oh, and I haven't done this. Like, oh, wow, I've extra up. Whereas when you're 25, you're like, well, there's still time.

[B]

Yeah. Well, you push everything aside.

[C]

Like. Like, if I say something stupid and there's a comment that's like. Like, Shane's wrong about that.

[B]

Who cares?

[C]

It hits harder now that I'm an adult. Now that I'm. Or now that I'm, like, 34. Because I'm like, man, I had way more time to figure that out, and I didn't.

[B]

Because your fate. Everything is right there in the forefront. All the stuff that you were like, ah, but it's.

[C]

But it's. I mean, it's also a recognition of, like, it's such a short amount of time. And then I'm like, oh. And I'm. Every day. I'm kind of a baby. Like, every day, you're figuring things out over and over again. Like, there is no graduate where I'm like, I'm wise now. Like, yeah, you gain wisdom and stuff. You're you. I want to be wiser, but I'm always going to be naive.

[B]

See?

[C]

But that's.

[B]

That's what's good. I think a lot of people go, I figured it all out. I've decided I've learned, I'm done. And then they get to our parents age, especially my mom. I feel like my mom's like, oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. I don't have the best relationship with, you know, so and so and. Oh, do you think it's because of that? I'm like, yeah, it's cuz of that. Like, what? She'll call me and be like, I did this thing that. You'd be so proud. I. I said, you can come over to my house and no one else will be there. It'll just be me, and I'll just focus my time. And I was like, whoa, good for you.

[A]

My heart is racing. Cause that sounds really vulnerable.

[B]

It's so vulnerable. I think my mom, like, fills up space with every. She wants to make everybody happy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, do you want to spend the weekend at my house? But then a thousand random people are there.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[B]

Mark's gonna stop by. He has stuff for me. I don't know how long he'll stay.

[A]

He's bringing the ladder he borrowed like, 10 years ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Good accent.

[B]

He's bringing the ladder he borrow world, like 10 years ago. Flatter.

[A]

I think in my 20s, though, I. I was too much of an adult. I actually don't think. I. I think I. My 20, my 30s, might need to be a little looser.

[C]

I recognize that. I. I look back, I was. I was absolutely trying to. That's a very, like, child actor thing.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Like, trying to be an adult so bad. That's why I think a lot of child actors, like, get so messed up later.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because they, like, were like, I was never a kid. My development is all messed up. I wanted so badly to be, like, the wisest, like, most mature person when I was a kid. And I look back and I'm just like, God, who the fuck was I? I was so cringy. But I'll. I'll like, sometimes look back on, like, early smosh videos, like from 2015 and stuff, and I'm just like, God. I like, who is this guy?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I. I like, look younger, but I come. I feel like I come across older and like, more almost curmudgeony.

[B]

I feel totally the opposite. I feel like my 20s, I was very. I was just like, fuckboy era. Always saying yes. I said yes to. I was just like, everyone can f off. I am going to have the wildest time. I don't know. I don't know because I normally am a scared person.

[A]

Is that so?

[B]

Not now, no. Like, I. As a kid, I was a scared person, but my mom always was like,

[A]

no, get in the water.

[B]

You're scared of that? We're doing that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't like that? We're doing that. And so I think it's trained me to go, well, of course I'm gonna do the scary thing. I have to. And now it's so ingrained in me that I love doing the scary thing. I think that's why I love doing characters and performing is because it, like, connects to that part of my brain. But my 20s was 100%.

[C]

That's so funny.

[A]

I just said I felt like I

[C]

was locked up inside my head until, like, 28. Like, I was like, I don't know what life was.

[A]

What opened you up? You ever done drugs?

[B]

No, no, he never has.

[A]

Do you drink or do any? I drink weed or anything like that.

[C]

Yeah, but it's not like it. That helps.

[A]

But you've never done, like, a psychedelic.

[C]

No. Okay. No, I, like, not. Not. Not for, like, not wanting. But I never felt safe enough. The problem was I felt so anxious and unsafe all the time that I was never in the zone to be like, oh, I feel safe to do that.

[A]

So interesting.

[C]

So it kind of didn't allow for it.

[A]

Would you ever.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

My God, I want to be there so bad.

[C]

Yeah. The problem. I think a big problem was because of how anxious I was all the time, people were like, oh, Shane's too straight, Ed. She doesn't want to do that stuff. So I never. I was never in the space. And then it, like, kind of created.

[A]

That makes me so sad because I. I think in our 20s, so much of what we do is we give people social roles to. To follow. Yeah. Because it helps us make sense of things. And so people point at you and they go, well, you're the straight and narrow. Or like, you're like, I guess that's what I am. I guess. And then we start to believe this idea of what we are when it's like, that's not necessarily who I want to be or who I am.

[C]

It was tough, though, because at the same time, I was extra terrified to take any risks because not only was I just an anxious person, but I also had this career that I had given up high school. And the college experience for. So to me, I was like, I gave up in my head. What I told myself for so long was I gave up my life to pursue this, and if I don't succeed at it, then I gave up my life and I failed at this, and I have nothing, and my life has been void.

[B]

So much pressure.

[C]

Yeah. I ruined myself with it. And now, like, I've got, like. It was like, kind of once I got past. And then, like, honestly, what freed up some of it was, like, some of the Smosh experience. I'm like, this is the weirdest. I'm in wacko world, where none of this is the normal human experience. So it's like I hopped over from, like, any sort of normal path into weird world.

[A]

I think that's why I. I mean, I'm grateful to be at Smosh for a lot of reasons, but that's one of the main reasons I'm really grateful for it. I'm having this reckoning recently where, like, there's a path that you take, especially with directing and writing and acting and, like, the kind of traditional industry path, and it's really lonely. And if you are one of the youngest people in the room, it's very alienating.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You have to be an adult. Also with directing, it's so bizarre because, like, I directed General Hospital for a

[B]

long time, which is wild to me.

[A]

Yeah. I was 27 directing General Hospital.

[B]

I can't even.

[C]

Crazy.

[A]

But the reason I bring up my age is because that show is the longest running TV show of all time. So the people who work on this show have been working on it for 35 years old. Yeah. Yeah. And they're phenomenal and amazing, but it's a really part of my job. Directing is a performance in a lot of ways, too, and I've been changing my relationship to that a lot, where I have to go in and convince these people, these people that I love, that I'm. That I'm in charge.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That what I say goes. And that is a really intense thing to assume responsibility for at an age like that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, it doesn't give you any opportunity to, like. Because you are also silly. It doesn't.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Any opportunity to, like, be silly because it'll lower your status. And status was, like, the first thing that you kind of experienced to feel safe, so you kept the status forever. I mean, when I first met you, I was like, hello. Nice to meet you, Rory. Really? Yeah. Whoa. And then. And then we started playing, and I was like, oh, we're silly. You're so curious, you're so interested. You're so like free and open. But like how you first present yourself is like I will not be taken lightly. Like I'll be taken seriously in a good way.

[A]

That's it. No, no, I'm not surprised that that's the reason. What's so. Cause also a huge part of what I do is I'm a visitor almost always. Like I come to places you stay too long. Whether it's a TV show or even larger projects. It's like that environment is only yours for five days, three months, however long it is.

[B]

How long were you on St. Denis?

[A]

I integrated there.

[B]

I thought it was such a funny show.

[A]

I love that show. I was there. I shadowed a couple episodes so I was like around and I got to know people and then I did my episode. My episode's only like two weeks. My shoot's only two weeks.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Another instance though of like being a 20 something and yeah, it's just a very bizarre experience and I'm really grateful for the directors who are older than me or ahead of me who can give me advice on those things.

[B]

So what was it like when you came into Smosh?

[A]

Because heaven on earth, it's.

[B]

We're. I mean I wouldn't say we're all the same age, but we're kind of.

[C]

It's a young place though. It's a weird. It is a young place where like the people in charge of everything are in their 30s. Right. And that's, that's rare in any sort of entertainment because you go to like studios and it's like, yeah, a bunch of 60 year old, 70 year olds,

[B]

they've been there forever.

[A]

Or even if that like they're 30 somethings later, 30s or in their 40s and they're, they all have kids who are like, they're like, hey, I gotta get outta here at 5 cause I gotta pick my kids up. They got a basketball game where I'm like, oh, we're in different stages of life.

[B]

I have like, there's only two people here who have kids.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So like it was really, it was really nice to come here this time

[A]

last year I remember sitting in thinking about what I wanted and I said, I want to be playing games more. I want to be performing again. Because my whole background is in comedy performing and just like in the mix with comedians again because I had taken such a break from that scene.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I want to be doing like sketch. I was just like, I was like, this is. That is What I'm missing right now. Whoa.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

That's literally it.

[A]

Dan Leahy actually messaged me and was like, hey, would you ever want to do stuff with Smosh? I was like, I've heard of Smosh. And of course, I knew you guys from being younger, but I didn't know the new version of Smosh. Yeah. And I knew tangentially, kind of. Cause Angela and I have been friends for many years, and I always just, like, loved that she was famous. Now I just got such a kick out of it, where I was like, oh, my God. Cause I don't look at people's Instagrams or anything. And every once in a while, I would go see what she was up to, and I'd be like, she's got, like, 300,000 followers.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

She's like. And which is still true for me with you guys, because I also only really know you guys. We've talked about this many times, but in the context of the studio or, like, when we go out, it's places that people aren't gonna bother you. I haven't been to, like, the airport with you guys. You know what I mean? Like, I haven't been in an environment where you guys would be getting stopped. So for me, I'm like, it's crazy to me that you guys are famous.

[B]

Anytime I've gotten stopped by a TSA agent, it is the sweetest thing ever. They're like, I know I cannot bring out my phone right now. I know it is illegal, but I need a selfie with you now.

[C]

And if you have a knife, I will let you get past. Don't worry about it.

[B]

Let me tell you, I look my worst at the airports, and I got a nice.

[A]

No worries.

[C]

It's all. It's all chill. All good.

[B]

Bring in whatever you want.

[C]

Chill. Sarah. Christ. Get on over there.

[B]

And I'm like, thanks.

[A]

By the way, we got some characters coming from this new bit city that are. Oh, banger.

[C]

I think it's my favorite Amanda character. Wow.

[B]

That's what Angela said.

[C]

You're you. You got. Talk about method. You got so into this character that we would cut and you wouldn't break character.

[B]

I wasn't there.

[C]

And that's going to be weird when you watch it. You're like, you didn't break from this character.

[B]

I wasn't there. All I know is I've been really challenging myself to play against type characters.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And you really did.

[B]

Like, Bridget in Will you be Mine was like, such an against type for me, but also still, me and Daria Rhea, really excellent name.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That was one of the hardest times of last this year, was being in the writers room and us being like, we want to do a Mariah Carey characteria. And someone goes, dariah Rhea, I think it was you.

[C]

I don't know if I came up with Daria Rhea, but someone did, and it's killed us. You locked into this role, and it is fascinating. And before we got on set, I look over and you're scrolling through your phone on your notes, and then just. You're scrolling past texts of tons of writing.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[C]

And you're like, these are all my notes and writings on this character. And you've come up with a background.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And I remember you turned to me and you go, every night, she has a Snickers and Baileys.

[B]

And you go, what? And I go, it's just something that I want to keep in the back of my head.

[C]

That's just who she is.

[B]

I literally. I had so much fun researching this character. And for the whole weekend, I always write, like, a one sheet for myself on every character. But for her, it was so easy to come up with lore. For her, it was just like, oh, of course. Of course she has. I don't wanna give anything away, but the Baileys and Snickers thing, I was like, oh, yeah, she would have, like, someone who's so, like, intense on camera, goes home and just unzips, and it all lets out so wild. And she pours, like, a thick glass of Bailey's and has Snickers, and she just sits there dead.

[C]

Didn't you say that's based on someone you know in real life?

[B]

Yes, yes. My sister's old neighbor. My sister's old neighbor in Quincy, Mass. And here's the deal. This woman, I swear to God, she lived by the door. So every time my sister would pull in, she'd go, allie. Hey, Allie. And Allie would go, oh, oh, oh. I'm actually on the phone. Was never on the phone. It was just like. And she told her. She's like, yeah, I lost all this weight. She goes, how'd she do it? She goes, well, I stopped my nightly snack. Baileys and Snickers.

[A]

My sister's like, I stopped drinking a

[C]

gallon of alcohol cream every night.

[A]

She dropped, like, 50 pounds.

[B]

Let me tell you, people on the East Coast.

[C]

And you know what? That's what your 30s is all about. Yeah. So I recognize, like, what do I need? What do I know?

[B]

Drop that thing of Bailey's.

[C]

This episode of Smoshmouth is sponsored by zocdoc. Wow, Amanda, your teeth are sparkling. Someone went to the dentist.

[B]

Oh, my God. The fact that you notice that my teeth look amazing makes me think that we've been spending too much time together.

[C]

Never enough time.

[B]

Totally. Well, you know, I use zocdoc to book my dentist appointment.

[C]

Oh, and I use zocdoc to book my dermatologist. My primary care physician list goes on.

[B]

ZocDoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. The app makes it so easy to see which doctors are in my network. They have more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states, and appointments made through

[C]

Zocdoc happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking.

[B]

Wow. You're, like, really finishing my.

[C]

I love Zocdoc. I was pushing off doctor's appointments for so long until I downloaded the app and realized it was so simple. Couldn't push them off any longer.

[B]

Ah. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com smoshmouth to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's ZocDoc.com Smoshmouth ZocDoc.com thanks, Sock Doc, for sponsoring this message.

[C]

Back to the show.

[B]

Back to the show. That was what. You were gonna finish my sentence? Keep your glasses on.

[C]

Don't tell me what to do.

[B]

Okay. Guess we're fighting now.

[C]

Yeah, your teeth actually look awful.

[B]

I hate you.

[A]

What do you guys think your biggest pattern was in your 20s?

[C]

Jesus.

[A]

Hard turn.

[C]

Damn. Okay, here we were having fun.

[B]

Well, Daria Rhea, the worst pattern.

[A]

Well, chew on that. I will say that your character as well.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yes. Yours was kind of a highlight. Just in that there was such a production around your character.

[B]

I always wanted to play someone so high maintenance that it needs four people to get her up.

[A]

That's what was really fun. But your character, I will say, really had me in stitches many, many times.

[C]

Chance plays like a Justin Bieber, like a kid raw era. Just a kid era, like, bowl cut, Justin Bieber era type of sensation. And I play his dad. And I will say I was trying really hard. I was trying really hard to, like, kind of like, just be in it. And I was very inspired by some of the family vlog dads that I have met. And they're all very similar. And it's just like these dads who are super, like, amped. They're super, like. Yeah, like, they. They love selling Their. Their product, which is their kids.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And it's just.

[B]

I'm like, you looked so. I. I was like, oh, my God.

[C]

Wig was.

[B]

It's Shane. I. You. You. I mean, it fit you. Like. I was like, oh, my God. Sorry.

[A]

Listen.

[B]

Hey, hey. I'm gonna say this better. I'm gonna say it's better. The wig fit you so well. But I was like, this is him. It's this guy. And what I love so much is you smiled in such an aggressive way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You weren't, like, mad, but your smile could, like, tear flesh.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[C]

Performing kindness. Right. Like, they perform nice.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But what was so funny about your character is you would always be, like, in the background of a shot, just 32. Beaming, all 32 teeth.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

You were just lit.

[C]

So, anyways, this comes out a week from now.

[B]

I think I'm so excited for the bit cities.

[C]

It was a fever dream.

[A]

Did they tell you the callback that we put into the second. Second episode Reveal it? Maybe not.

[C]

I don't think we can reveal it to me.

[B]

So I. I'm playing another character. And I also.

[A]

Great character.

[B]

I. I do. I. I play, like, a middle schooler. Remember the joke?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Jason.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I play a middle schooler named Amy. And, man, she. She just matured really fast.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

She got her period when she was 10. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah. And she just.

[B]

You know, she's just. And she just.

[A]

Sean Goodman, let me just tell you,

[B]

she is the life of the party.

[C]

Hell. Yeah.

[B]

And she. There's a. There's a little Easter egg.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

That she puts out that's connected to your character.

[C]

They're excited. Yeah. The next couple episodes, a bit not the same episode. They are a wild ride.

[B]

But, Rory, you pitched these episodes, and I remember being in the writing room on the first pitch that you did, and we were all so jazzed because it, like, to me, it was like a nostalgic blanket. Your pitches, it was just like. Yes, yes. It was like. Like that thing that you really want to do, and it's like, can we do this?

[C]

Yeah, it was. It was so much fun.

[B]

I don't want to give too much away, but. Yeah.

[C]

I think my pattern was wrapping my fears and excuses.

[B]

Oh, okay. The 20s pattern things.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Wrapping your.

[C]

Yeah. Like, I. I would justify reasons why I didn't have to. Like, I shouldn't. And I would love to come up with reasons like, I can't. I can't do this because of this reason. Or something.

[B]

Okay. But now I feel like you're a little bit like. Like, yeah, I'll do that. Yeah, sure. Why not? So, like, if I offered you mushrooms, I just.

[C]

I just gobble them up.

[B]

That would be awful.

[C]

We're not talking about stuff like that. I think that stuff has changed over the years. I think it's now, like, I think it's a lot with, like, art and like, creativity.

[A]

Talked about this.

[C]

We talked about this a ton.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Creativity is a really tough one. Smosh has been nice for breaking me up because, like, we just have to make so much stuff and it's helped so much. But now there's other spheres of, like my. When I'm not doing things here. It's still. It's just because it's scary.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it was. There was a. There. You recommended a book that I read, Big Magic, that I. That was really great. And there's a part that talks about perfectionism, and I've talked a lot about perfectionism, but she. She kind of bowled it down that in a way I needed to hear, which is like, hey, perfectionism is just fear. Yeah. Just afraid.

[B]

It is fear.

[C]

Yeah. And that's. I just need to kind of.

[A]

And it's the fear of magic. Like, it's literally the fear of engaging with magic.

[B]

And I.

[C]

It's. I think it's also recognizing, like, in American society, like, the capitalist productivity bullshit that we're in is really, like, it's recognized, like, that's been a big thing in my 30s of recognizing how much I was influenced by, like, seeing the manosphere has reached such a peak now that I'm grateful I'm in my 30s for when this is happening. But it's been around for so long and I'm like, oh, I didn't realize how influenced I was by that of like, like all of my achievements and everything must add up to this, like, identity.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm like, oh, and it doesn't mean anything. It's all, well, yeah. And I'm like, so you lose your ability to do things and create as a more out of body experience.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

But it's right now for everyone. Creating and what you do is all about building up into yourself. But that doesn't work.

[A]

It's an. It's an also the generation that we're a part of it. Like, it's invasive. It's in our houses. Capitalism through creativity is constant. Like, whether it's the desire I put out a TikTok or an Instagram, I don't do a lot of content that's just not like what I used to before. But then once it became influencer specific or comedy turned into less about it just being kind of fun because it made your friends laugh and more something else. I really stopped and I put out a video that's a Behind the scenes of my episode at St. Denis of just being like, this is how. If you've ever wondered how to direct an episode of tv, this is like how it's done.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And after that happened because the video did well and immediately people were like, what is the next thing you're gonna do? Like, what's the next video you're gonna do? What? Or even my own team was like, this is great. I was really. I had like agents reaching out about working together. And I was like, this is so bizarre cause the work has always existed. But you guys are seeing this and this is what you want to push. But this isn't the reason I did this video is because I wanted to be useful to people who might want to know how this is. Like when I think about the audience, I want to think about what my intention is with their attention. Because I don't think that that happens enough.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I mentioned something similar recently. I think on this podcast of like when we're doing this, I'm like, I want to entertain you.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Like I want, I want this to be funny. But so many right now are just trying to hold your attention.

[A]

That's the difference.

[C]

And there's such a differ.

[A]

I can feel it too because the intention. That's why I really do love cool 60.

[B]

You do not need to focus on it.

[C]

Don't have to worry about it.

[B]

But you know what, you're just gonna.

[A]

So it's fine. You know what? I was living in London and I was working on like a live show and I was working with this wonderful director. And after I was doing like a stand up set and I got off stage and he came up to me and he was like gonna give me notes and I love notes because it's fun, right? You get to tear things apart and make, make it better. That's part of why I love being here, is that we are always talking about how things can be better for the audience's experience and what we're trying to say or talk about. But he said to me, okay, I have notes for you. I've got good and bad. I said, okay. He said, the good is you're good at this and like you can hold the attention of an audience with relative ease, which is great. I said. And I was like, what, 24? I was like, okay, cool, done. And then he was like, but the bad news is you came in here on purpose. You set the bar low so that you would overachieve because you didn't prepare. And that's not your job. Your job is to think about why you have the audience's attention and for it to make it worth their time, because they came here and they deserve to have their time taken seriously.

[B]

I love that. So.

[A]

I know. And he was like, it's a very American problem. And I was like, okay.

[B]

It actually is, though.

[A]

Well, yeah. Cause then when I came back, so that changed my brain chemistry around everything where I was like, no, you're right. Like, I should be appreciating the audience. I'm making this more about me. And he was like, your job as someone on the set list is to show up and show why you're on the set list. Your job is to kill.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Changed my life. Changed my life. And then I came back and when I started doing shows here again, I stopped because all I could see was people doing the same thing constantly. And I was like, why are you. I was getting upset because I was like, I'm here. You have my attention. Please do something with it.

[B]

Please use it.

[A]

Yeah. Or just have intention behind what you're.

[B]

I love that so much because I feel that when I'm on stage sometimes and you show up and some people are really giving it and some are not, and you're like, okay, well, even now as a performer, my time is being wasted because we have, we have this time. Like, we, we get to like do our dream and our gift and you're half assing it because you're afraid or

[A]

you're looking at the audience being like, isn't this crazy?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my God. I said I wrote whale crazy.

[C]

With YouTube, it's really rampant of. There's a lot of spectacle. There's a lot of like shoveling tons of money into a thing. But what we really care about is thought and like, intention and honesty. And I can notice now when I'm watching a YouTube video and I'm just like, you're just pumping this out for views. Like, you know, you know that you're going to get clicks on this, you know, hold people. But I'm like, you. You don't care about this video.

[A]

No.

[C]

And I think I. That's what I care about. And I can tell when someone cares about the video they're making, and that matters to me. More than. Even if I like the videos for some reason, fully, what is the point?

[B]

I do understand that you're in your job, and sometimes it does get stale or whatever, but I don't know. As an artist, I think it's up to us to say if this is getting stale. You have to make a shift. You have to challenge yourself. Because I hate doing something that feels robotic to me, and if it starts to feel it, it physically hurts. I don't. I don't want to be around it. But it's why I struggle with so many mediums that are comedy, because I'm

[A]

just like, well, what you're describing requires patience. What you're describing requires a certain amount of time to be.

[B]

And uncomfortableness.

[A]

Well, yeah, to be thoughtful takes time. We were actually. I was talking to a producer, and she was like, well, you know, directors are the new rock stars. And I said, what do you mean? She said, well, people aren't going to the movies to see it's so true anymore. They're going to see the new Ryan Coogler movie or the new Yorgos movie, the new Greta Gerwig movie. And my theory is that because directing, regardless, it doesn't matter. It takes two to three years to make a movie.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You have to think about what you're saying, because the best time is so

[B]

you have to kill it.

[A]

Or you look at someone like, contrapoints, like, she is. She takes 18 months to make a video. She drops a video, it has 2 million views in the first 24 hours. Because people are like. Like, I know you took the time and energy to think about what you were going to say, and I want to hear what you have to say because you appreciate our att.

[B]

Isn't that what art is like?

[C]

No. I mean, that's the type of YouTube I love. Like, there's a YouTuber named FD Signifier. And there's like, Jenny Nicholson and Anna

[A]

Howard is really great, too.

[C]

Yeah. Like, people who are like, oh, you care. Like, Drew Gooden dropped a video about ESPN just breaking it apart for 30 minutes. And I'm like, like, damn, dude. Holy. Like, he goes through the whole history of it. And I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. But I'm like, you care about this?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I was like, you made this not because you could have made something else and gotten way more views, but you care about this. And I. I understand for people breaking into any industry, I'm like, yeah, you. You have no choice but to. But to resort to the attention grabbing.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I think I'm speaking to the people that once you get the attention, once you have your thing set, now it's up to you to like, not just keep going with it. Because I look at the people who are like some of the top YouTubers,

[A]

I'm just like, dude, you're just making this place waters down.

[C]

Like, you know, and I. I really care about that. And I know that, like, we make so many videos. I'm sure there's times where people would say, like, we're. We do that. I don't know. But, like, I think we really care about making stuff.

[A]

Well. I think. I think that, that. That is evident by the community that that Smosh has created. Like, the. The die hard nature of the people who love Smosh. I think it comes from the fact that, like, you guys are good people. You care about what you're putting. You think about what you say, you care about the things that you guys are making. The culture of the company is really fantastic. And when we're working on things, like when we were working on Bit City, we cared more than anything that it was as funny as it could possibly be. Or same with Smosh Hospital, that it

[B]

was as fun as it could. Also mainly that, like, it was as fun, like when you and I were really breaking down Cowboy from Smosh Hospital. I just loved that moment when it was just you and I and Rachel and you were like, okay, do this again. Do the monologue again. But, like, really think about. Like really think about your love for. I don't wanna spoil it, but, you know, dinosaur. But really think about your love for your partner, you know, like, rather than the jokes. And that, to me, is my favorite thing in the world because I only want to watch art. Watching an artist go, I'm really into this and I want to show you that's the kind of art that I want to watch. And it could be years. And like, okay, random Bjork is coming out with, you know, a new album and doing a tour. And I'm like, hell, yeah, I will watch that. Even though I haven't watched Bjork in years. But it's like, I want to watch someone go, I found this big magic, and I want to show you all. And I think we're missing that because it's. It's. It doesn't always make money and it takes time.

[C]

People are starved for just, I think, authenticity. I think. I think we're so. We've been oversold so much.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That I think these movies like, Like Sinners and. And. And Weapons Just feel original in a way that people are just like, oh, this person is. I'm getting something a little bit real here. And I feel that with YouTube, too.

[B]

And I feel that. I feel that with you as a director. I feel that you're like, no, we didn't get that. I love that. I'd rather hear that of like, okay, we're not quite getting that. And you're like. And I'm like, you're right. At this point, I'm like, Or I'm tired or whatever. And I'm trying to get this line because, you know, we need to move on or whatever I'm thinking about. And it's like, no, like, just focus on the truth of the scene. Like, what is the truth of it if all else fails, like, how do you respond truthfully in this moment? I love you as a director because. Cause you're so curious about what does this mean? How do we explore with our minds and how are we honest about what I'm feeling in this moment?

[A]

Well. Cause it comes through in everything that you make, right? You can feel when something feels watered down. Human beings are smart, they're intuitive on a body level. And I think that's what bothers me sometimes about. If I go to a show or something and I can feel them winking at the audience, like, you're doing this for yourself. You're not like. Or absurdity for absurdity sake. Without commitment.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I really don't. Like.

[B]

I understand completely, but I love absurdity

[A]

when someone is dedicated to the reality of the absurdity. Yeah. Love that. I think that's. I mean, Tim Robinson is a great example of that. Like, he. He is so committed that it works. But the second I feel somebody feel they're too cool for it, or that they are.

[B]

They're like, touching the absurdity, they're touching the character, they're touching the comedy, I think, because it's really scary. It's really scary to commit, of course,

[A]

but I love it.

[C]

And we're in a very, very critical time. Like on the Internet, we, like, love to critique, but we're scared to make. And so it's like. Because by making stuff, you. You run the risk of being cringy, of being. Which is worse than death, apparently. But, yeah, it is scary. But I don't know, it's also freeing. It is to, like, truly make something. And you can make something. And, like, we've had this experience. I've had this experience many times over the past 11 years of, like, making something that is super successful, gets a ton of views, but I'm like, I feel nothing from that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And then making something that nobody watches and you're just like, oh, that was the best experience of all time.

[A]

I did a screening last week of a bunch of my work and the. It was really fun. And the first thing I showed was a short I made like a few years ago. I put all these up on YouTube now. Cause I think I'm gonna start migrating over to YouTube. I just can't with the other platforms. But first short was a short I made for like $400. And the whole concept is it's like a tasty video and it's top down videos, but it's like what happens if the camera keeps rolling and this woman's husband comes home? And I love that. I made it for $400 and probably five hours with a few friends. And it didn't get festival play, it didn't get whatever. But it is one of my favorite things I've ever made because it's just pure. The whole thing is just like. We just kind of did this because it was a fun idea.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

To watch it. It has that, like, when I watch it, I. I can see myself in it where I'm like, oh. It has that little magic of like, I wasn't trying to do it for anything. It's like this short that was fun.

[B]

That's my favorite. That's my favorite thing. That's, that's, that's literally why I. It's literally why I do it. When you, when you talk about it and you still get like, giddy about it. Yeah, it's my favorite.

[C]

Damn.

[A]

Anyways, conversation over.

[C]

I. I feel like we have to get out of here. I'm sorry, I have to, I have to go read Reddit stories and I

[B]

have to be in red stories.

[A]

Wait, you're in it?

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna be in this one.

[C]

Oh, this one?

[A]

This one. You're about to record who's in it?

[B]

Yeah, Shane, I'm following you to the couch, brother.

[C]

Brother. I can't believe we're gonna walk over there.

[B]

Would you guys accept me if I just called everyone brother?

[C]

I think sure.

[B]

Or chica.

[A]

Well, yeah, chica. I feel like.

[C]

Don't you do that, Rory.

[B]

No, literally.

[A]

Here's the thing.

[C]

Here's the thing. I think you could do whatever, and he'll be like, it's not okay. But we can't stop her. There's nothing you can do about it.

[A]

It's so wide.

[C]

Yeah, you'd go to hr and they'd just be like, look.

[B]

And I go, brother. They'd be like, me, too.

[C]

They'd be like, can you please stop? We can't stop, but it's up to you.

[B]

You said please, brother. That sounds fun.

[C]

Okay, brother.

[B]

Okay, brother.

[C]

Rory, this has been incredible.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

This has gone. Can I be honest? This has gone exactly how I expected it to go.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In a good way?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Because this is how our lunches have been the past few weeks.

[B]

I'm so excited. Do you. Do you want to plug anything right now?

[A]

I put a bunch of my shorts on YouTube. I'm really not online a lot. Like, that's just not my.

[B]

Okay, but what is this short call that you just talked about?

[A]

I think on YouTube, it's just 400 short, but the actual short is called A Holiday Casserole youe Man Will Love. I love both of those titles, and it is really fun. And there are other shorts up there, too, that I. I really care about.

[B]

And also, check out Bed City that's coming out. Two episodes, directed by Rory, created by Rory. I'm so excited. We all worked really hard on them, and.

[C]

Good stuff. So excited. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Hey. Hey.

[C]

Can I. Am I doing this right? I've never done this before.

[A]

Here's your thumbnail.

[B]

I literally just shoved my finger in there.

[A]

There.

[C]

Bye, guys.

[B]

Bye, guys.

[A]

All right, drop the act.

[C]

Yeah, I can't.

[B]

I'm. All right. You need to go. Those Bit City episodes are not going to be good.

[A]

He's such a hunk.

[B]

I know. He's very hunky. And look, he's embarrassed. He didn't like how.

[A]

How.