#34 - We Got TikTok's Science Guy

Summary

Podcast Summary: Smosh Mouth – Episode #34: We Got TikTok's Science Guy

Episode Information:

• Title: Smosh Mouth
• Host/Author: Smosh (Shayne Topp and Amanda Lehan-Canto)
• Guest: Hank Green
• Episode: #34 - We Got TikTok's Science Guy
• Release Date: February 19, 2024
• Description: Join Shayne Topp (short), Amanda Lehan-Canto (tall), and a rotating Smosh friend as they discuss what’s on their minds, what they’ve found on the internet, and other dumb ideas they’re cooking up.

---

1. Introduction & Guest Welcome

The episode kicks off with Shayne and Amanda playfully roasting their guest, Hank Green, highlighting their friendly banter and setting a light-hearted tone.

• [00:03] Shayne Madej: "You look so nice."
• [00:35] Shayne Madej: "Cause I always look so good, and Shane looks like he crawled out of a gutter."

Amanda introduces Hank as her "new favorite person," emphasizing the fun and camaraderie of the show.

2. Fashion & Personal Styles

The hosts humorously discuss their fashion choices, with Amanda favoring denim jeans and white T-shirts, while Shayne pokes fun at his own appearance.

• [00:51] Amanda McKnight: "Shane just wishes we could all be in denim jeans and white T shirts. And I was like, it doesn't work for ladies."

3. TikTok Accounts & Online Presence

The conversation shifts to their TikTok activities. Shayne reveals he has an alternate TikTok account with limited content, distinct from his main one that features dances and science facts.

• [02:04] Amanda McKnight: "You have a TikTok. Very good."
• [02:25] Shayne Madej: "This is really dumb."

Hank acknowledges Shayne’s multi-faceted online presence, highlighting his role as a science communicator.

4. Authorship & Book Discussions

Shayne elaborates on his experience as an author, discussing his two New York Times bestselling books and the process of writing a sequel.

• [03:03] Hank Green: "So there's Hank. Okay."
• [04:06] Amanda McKnight: "How did you know that it reached an end?"

Shayne shares insights into his storytelling approach and the challenges of expanding his narrative into a second book.

5. Recognition & Internet Fame

The hosts explore the nuances of being recognized in public, sharing personal anecdotes about unexpected encounters.

• [06:07] Amanda McKnight: "My dad and sister would be obsessed with this book."
• [07:18] Hank Green: "Like, hey, man. Congratulations for those muscles you did."

Shayne reflects on the complexities of fame, emphasizing the difference between private and public personas.

6. Stand-Up Comedy Journey

Shayne delves into his foray into stand-up comedy, detailing his initial reluctance and eventual success through consistent performances.

• [12:09] Shayne Madej: "Yeah. It's been really fun, and I don't want to do it forever."
• [13:05] Amanda McKnight: "Nice."

He describes renting a theater in Missoula, performing regularly, and expanding his set over time.

7. Personal Life & Family

Discussion turns to Shayne’s personal life, particularly his relationship with his seven-year-old son, who is curious about his father’s online presence.

• [10:17] Hank Green: "I can't fathom having you as a father. That's gotta be so insane."
• [11:10] Shayne Madej: "He's gonna be like, oh, what, dad."

Shayne shares how his son interacts with his content and the balance he maintains between his professional and personal life.

8. Science Communication & TikTok

Shayne and Hank discuss the role of accurate science communication on platforms like TikTok, emphasizing the importance of reliable sources.

• [23:10] Shayne Madej: "You have to have some good systems for knowing what is more likely to be accurate."
• [24:15] Hank Green: "We were talking about it before you came on here about the lacrimal sack."

Amanda shares her experiences with misinformation on the platform, underscoring the challenges of debunking myths.

9. Climate Change & Optimism

The conversation shifts to climate change, where Shayne expresses a nuanced outlook, acknowledging the severity while highlighting technological advancements.

• [54:05] Shayne Madej: "The price of solar panels over the last 20 years or 50 years, like a solar panel used to cost like, you know, like $50 million… now, the cost of renewable energy is wildly inexpensive."
• [55:31] Hank Green: "Holy shit."

Shayne emphasizes the progress in renewable energy and the role of AI in scientific breakthroughs, adding a layer of optimism to the discussion.

10. Dealing with Anxiety & Inner Monologues

The hosts explore their cognitive processes, with Shayne describing his thought patterns as "clumps" rather than words, contrasting with Hank and Amanda who experience inner dialogues.

• [35:13] Hank Green: "I don't have, like, words going on."
• [35:17] Amanda McKnight: "I do."

This segment delves into personal mental health experiences, particularly anticipatory anxiety, fostering a relatable discussion for listeners.

11. Inspirational Insights & Taking Action

Shayne shares an influential quote from Ze Frank about the importance of acting on ideas rather than overthinking them, encouraging listeners to transform thoughts into actions.

• [47:44] Amanda McKnight: "Those are the best words of wisdom."
• [47:46] Shayne Madej: "If you fail ever, it's like not taking up space in your head anymore, and that's a success on its Own."

12. Wrapping Up & Promotions

The episode concludes with a segment promoting MeUndies, offering listeners a discount code, followed by final interactions between Shayne, Amanda, and Hank.

• [36:04] Hank Green: "Guys get 20% off your first order, plus free [e-mail] Smoshmouth."
• [75:03] Hank Green: "Roast again."

---

Key Takeaways:

• Authentic Communication: The episode emphasizes the importance of genuine interactions, both online and offline, highlighting the balance between internet fame and personal life.

• Science and Misinformation: Shayne and Hank discuss the challenges of maintaining accurate science communication on social media platforms amid prevalent misinformation.

• Personal Growth: Shayne shares his journey through chemotherapy and how journaling and comedy played pivotal roles in his resilience and mental health.

• Optimism in Science: Despite acknowledging dire issues like climate change, the hosts find reasons to remain hopeful through technological advancements and collective efforts.

• Mental Health Awareness: The discussion on anxiety and inner monologues provides listeners with relatable content about managing mental health in the digital age.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Shayne Madej [47:08]: "If it's in my head, it doesn't exist. Like, you gotta convince yourself of that."

• Amanda McKnight [47:10]: "Those are the best words of wisdom."

• Hank Green [31:27]: "To be able to make something super intelligent. Stupid is very hard."

• Shayne Madej [54:05]: "The price of solar panels over the last 20 years or 50 years… now, the cost of renewable energy is wildly inexpensive."

---

Conclusion:

Episode #34 of Smosh Mouth with Hank Green offers a blend of humor, personal storytelling, and insightful discussions on science communication, mental health, and societal challenges. The hosts maintain their signature playful banter while delving into meaningful topics, making the episode both entertaining and informative for listeners.

Transcript

[Shane Madej]

You look so nice.

[Amanda McKnight]

Thank you.

[Shane Madej]

I mean, and like you, it feels like you didn't match the energy I was. Hi.

[Hank Green]

Welcome to Smosh Mouth. I'm Shane.

[Amanda McKnight]

Gentlemen. I'm Amanda.

[Shane Madej]

I mean, it's all together. It's like an amazing look.

[Amanda McKnight]

Thank you. Hank Green. Guys, this is Hank Green, my new favorite person. And finally called out. What is happens every episode. Cause I always look so good, and Shane looks like he crawled out of a gutter.

[Shane Madej]

He looks like. It looks like. I'm not. Maybe it's intentional, just like the.

[Amanda McKnight]

Here's the thing. Yeah.

[Hank Green]

We're so happy to have Hank here today.

[Shane Madej]

You could clean a little up around the neck.

[Hank Green]

Yeah, I actually agree on that one.

[Amanda McKnight]

Shane just wishes we could all be in denim jeans and white T shirts. And I was like, it doesn't work for ladies. It would look so weird. They'd be like, are you from the 80s cleaning a car?

[Shane Madej]

Are you in a band where you all wear an outfit?

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. Grease, Lightning, Spot.

[Hank Green]

We're all in the 80s in a rock band. Well, that this show has already started. This is how we're beginning this episode. Thank you for starting it off with a roast. I'm used to it. That's what we do around here. It's good to see you, too.

[Amanda McKnight]

More of a compliment than a roast.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Compliment for you.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Shane Madej]

You only heard one part of that.

[Amanda McKnight]

Correct. I filtered.

[Hank Green]

I had no idea how this episode was going to go, but I. I'm happy for the energy. It's perfect you're bringing. Glad to have you here. This is your first time at the Smosh studio.

[Shane Madej]

It is. I was surprised. I was like, look at this large building. I wish I had large, pillarless rooms in my studio. I'm always, like, dodging around like an object.

[Hank Green]

Well, we're bringing pillars in next week. We're gonna install a bunch, which is.

[Amanda McKnight]

Crazy because you do so much on your own. Yeah, you do so much. You do. You have a TikTok.

[Shane Madej]

I have a.

[Amanda McKnight]

Basically a size. Wow, look at that.

[Hank Green]

You've got a TikTok.

[Amanda McKnight]

You have a TikTok. Very good.

[Shane Madej]

Did you know about my alt TikTok?

[Hank Green]

No, I actually don't think I know about your alt.

[Shane Madej]

No, Not a lot of people do.

[Amanda McKnight]

Are you about to tell us?

[Shane Madej]

All right.

[Hank Green]

Give us.

[Shane Madej]

No, that's all. You can find it on your own.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay. Hank Green has an alt TikTok, which I love. So it's not probably not about science.

[Shane Madej]

It's only got, like, six videos on it. It's where I go When I'm feeling real.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, yes.

[Shane Madej]

Like, this one can't. This one can't go on the.

[Hank Green]

Doing TikTok dances.

[Shane Madej]

This is really dumb.

[Hank Green]

We just go there, and it's you just being like.

[Shane Madej]

No, no, the dances go on the regular one.

[Hank Green]

Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, You've got your. Your TikTok. You are one of the founders of VidCon. You've. You've started so many companies and things, and I know this because I've seen it at Barnes and Noble every time I go. You've also written a book.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. Too.

[Hank Green]

You've written two.

[Shane Madej]

Fuck you. Wait, wait. I don't know what the rules are.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yes, you can swear.

[Hank Green]

No, you can say whatever.

[Amanda McKnight]

You can swear always at Shane.

[Hank Green]

Yeah. Oh, is it me?

[Shane Madej]

I like this. I like the new rules. I like to know who's in charge.

[Amanda McKnight]

Smosh is Shane.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Well, I'm not buying your book now.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wait, so you wrote a New York Times bestseller?

[Shane Madej]

They both were. But I don't know. You made me say it, but.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, my God.

[Hank Green]

So there's Hank. Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

An absolutely remarkable thing.

[Shane Madej]

And then there's a sequel. A beautifully foolish endeavor.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, a beautifully foolish endeavor. Oh, okay. I love that. When did that one come out?

[Shane Madej]

2020, I think.

[Amanda McKnight]

And when did the other one come out?

[Shane Madej]

2018.

[Hank Green]

Damn.

[Amanda McKnight]

Did you always know that you were gonna write a sequel?

[Shane Madej]

Oh, yes.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, okay.

[Hank Green]

You were gonna write a sequel. You didn't always know you were gonna write a book.

[Shane Madej]

Yes.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. So the first book, basically, I was like, here's the story. I know what the story is. I know how it starts and how it ends. And then I was writing the first book, and then it ended, but it didn't get to the end. Like, the book, like, very naturally reached a climax. There was a conclusion, but it didn't reach the end of the story. And so I was like, well, I guess there's gonna be two books.

[Amanda McKnight]

How did you know that it reached an end? Yeah, you just knew. It's time.

[Shane Madej]

You'll be like, that's an end.

[Amanda McKnight]

You're like, it's time. There's nothing worse than having an end and keep going.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Do you know what I mean?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. I couldn't do that to people. But then I did because there was a sequel.

[Amanda McKnight]

I see that. That is two different things, though.

[Shane Madej]

Yes.

[Hank Green]

Is that the end of it? Is there gonna be another.

[Shane Madej]

It's all done now. And then I reached the end of the story that I wanted to tell, and I was like, I did it, and you're Good.

[Hank Green]

You don't feel, like, the pull to write another book?

[Shane Madej]

Another book, sure, but not with those characters.

[Hank Green]

Not that world.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. Okay, so it's about different characters, about human beings.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay.

[Shane Madej]

Living life. No, I was like, you're not who.

[Amanda McKnight]

I thought you were. Okay, where am I?

[Hank Green]

You've got six minutes.

[Shane Madej]

No, it's about a young woman who gets famous on the Internet because she meets the very first space alien.

[Hank Green]

That's cool.

[Shane Madej]

So it's more about her journey of fame than it is about aliens.

[Amanda McKnight]

My dad and sister would be obsessed with this book.

[Shane Madej]

But then it becomes a big thing. Like, every time there's a big new thing in society, what do we do? We turn it. Like, we figure out what are the two sides gonna be so that we can yell at each other about it.

[Amanda McKnight]

Correct.

[Shane Madej]

And that's, you know, love and hate sort of sucked into the world of punditry and creation and fame.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wow.

[Shane Madej]

And then also the. You know, maybe the world is in.

[Amanda McKnight]

Danger because of the aliens or the humans.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, exactly. Which is it? Or is it both?

[Amanda McKnight]

It's two sides who are always fighting.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, well, those two sides, actually. Well, we're not going to get into it.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay.

[Shane Madej]

I don't want to spoil too much.

[Hank Green]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

I'm going to.

[Hank Green]

I'm going to buy it next time I go to Barnes and Noble.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. I promise you.

[Shane Madej]

Just walk. He's walked past it over and over and over again.

[Hank Green]

Because I don't. I go to the fantasy sci fi section. That's where I look for books. And I.

[Shane Madej]

You read sci fi and you know me, and you're like, well, there it is. I guess I'll get the new Robin Hobb.

[Hank Green]

Well, there it is. I'm going to read Annihilation.

[Amanda McKnight]

God, no.

[Hank Green]

I'm going to be bummed out for a little bit and. Yeah, I will. I just always notice because, like, you know, I know your brother's also an author, but, like, I see that. I'm like, oh, damn.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Shane Madej]

And my favorite thing is when people who have dealt with some level of, like, Internet fame read it and they're like, wow, help.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Shane Madej]

Thank you for that. Because it kind of helps.

[Amanda McKnight]

That's interesting. Well, that really makes me want to read it. Perhaps you and me are not Internet famous.

[Shane Madej]

You are. You get recognized.

[Amanda McKnight]

I do, actually, in the weird. One time, I was with my dad at the airport and I got recognized and he was like, you know that person? I'm like, no, Dad, I clearly don't. They came up to me and asked for a picture at 6am No, I.

[Shane Madej]

Don'T usually how people I know talk to me.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Shane Madej]

And my son once said that he was 6. He said to me, I didn't even know we knew that person.

[Hank Green]

The way some people recognize you sometimes they treat you as if like they've known you for a long time.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, that is true.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

I had a guy once, I was at the gym and I'm like, I'm in between sets and I'm sitting there, I have headphones in. I'm kind of looking at my phone and this guy just walks up and he just goes. Holds out his hand.

[Amanda McKnight]

Put it there, brother.

[Hank Green]

Like, hey, man. And I was just like, what?

[Shane Madej]

Congratulations on those muscles you did.

[Hank Green]

I'm like, oh, you know, Smosh. He's like, I don't know. Smosh. I don't know anything. Just want to shake your hand. I shake a hand every day. Congratulations. For what? Nothing, dude. That's it.

[Shane Madej]

I think you probably have done some good stuff in your life and I.

[Amanda McKnight]

Just wanted to feel. Yeah, man.

[Hank Green]

Shake your hand after that squat.

[Shane Madej]

Holy.

[Amanda McKnight]

That's crazy.

[Hank Green]

No, but people. People will greet you in crazy ways.

[Shane Madej]

We should all do that to each other maybe.

[Amanda McKnight]

What?

[Shane Madej]

Just like, come up to be. Just like, go to a stranger and be like, I think you probably doing a really good job.

[Amanda McKnight]

I actually would love that. I find myself living in la. People don't wanna make eye contact a lot. When I go back home, people will be like, you look very nice today. And I enjoy it. And I'm like. And just like, you said that to me. I was like. It was so refreshing. And then it reminded me like, oh, yeah, that's what I. That's great. That's what human beings should do. Although some people take it a little too far.

[Shane Madej]

But some people take it a little.

[Amanda McKnight]

Too far, they go too hard.

[Hank Green]

Yeah. I think I would more if I was. I'm just afraid of, like, creeping people out, like strangers, you know? I don't wanna.

[Amanda McKnight]

Shane, if you said that to me, I'd be like, thanks so much, man.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. But you guys know it. I agree. You never. People got different rules, you know, you have to be careful.

[Hank Green]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Aliens and humans being like, yeah.

[Hank Green]

Hey, put it there.

[Amanda McKnight]

Boom.

[Shane Madej]

I just wanted. I just wanted to say I think you're doing good out here. Like, you're working hard.

[Hank Green]

I guess at the gym. That. That could be nice. Yeah, I'll start doing that.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

I'm not gonna even gonna get to my workout. Cause I'm gonna shake everyone's hand at the gym. Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Good for you. That'll be good.

[Hank Green]

Yeah, that'll be good today. That'll be solid.

[Amanda McKnight]

So hankering. You do a lot. You do a lot.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Is there. Is there something? What can't you do? I mean, really?

[Shane Madej]

Spanish.

[Amanda McKnight]

You can't do Spanish.

[Hank Green]

Not by language.

[Amanda McKnight]

Bienvenidos, Ito. No problem.

[Hank Green]

There you go.

[Shane Madej]

I wish. I would love to speak. I would love to speak another language. I used to play kit drum. Like, I used to play drum set. Oh, cool. And I can't do that anymore. Like, it literally hurts. Like my body isn't capable of it. My wrists start hurting really fast. So I'd like to be able to do that again. I'm like, better than you at yo yo. But like, not as good as I'd like to be.

[Hank Green]

Whoa. Amanda's pretty good. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Amanda McKnight]

I was never gonna.

[Shane Madej]

Is there a spin star in the room?

[Hank Green]

No, I don't believe so.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wait, is that the term for being gay?

[Shane Madej]

No, that's a kind of Yo Yo.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, see? Not good at yo yo over here.

[Hank Green]

I thought spinstar was like, hey, I'm a spin star myself. Check it out. He just does the rock the cradle.

[Shane Madej]

It's a certification that you receive from the Yo Yo Academy.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay, so when. When do you use Yo Yoing in any situation?

[Shane Madej]

No, never.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay.

[Hank Green]

Oh, that's. But that you want to get better.

[Amanda McKnight]

At it, but maybe with your son.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

So you have a six year old son.

[Hank Green]

Yeah.

[Shane Madej]

And he actually does enjoy Yo Yoing and we yo yo together.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay, well, that's really cool.

[Shane Madej]

He's seven. He just turned seven.

[Hank Green]

I can't fathom having you as a father. That's gotta be so insane.

[Shane Madej]

It's very normal for him right now.

[Amanda McKnight]

Right now?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. No, and he loves YouTube and he does not really know I'm a YouTuber.

[Hank Green]

Oh, really?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

He doesn't know your channel?

[Shane Madej]

He doesn't? No. Cause he doesn't watch SciShow. SciShow has a kids channel that he watches and I have been on that. And also the person who hosts it is a friend of ours and has been to our house. And he'll be like, where's Squeaks? Who's like the puppet on the show to Jesse who hosts the show. And now he gets that it's a puppet. But back when he was littler and the. Yeah, but he. None of the things that I do quite overlap with his stuff yet. But he knows that. He knows about subscribers. Cause the channels he watches like we got a million subscribers. And at some point he's gonna have to find out that I have a channel with 15 million subscribers.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, you do.

[Shane Madej]

He's gonna be like, oh, what, dad.

[Amanda McKnight]

Can we talk for a second?

[Shane Madej]

He wants to, like. He talks about uploading a video, and he's like, if we uploaded a video, maybe we could get subscribers. And I'm like, yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Do you want him to have a YouTube?

[Shane Madej]

I don't not. I mean, I'd be happy for him to explore whatever thing he's excited about when I feel like he's not capable of handling it right.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Shane Madej]

Which.

[Amanda McKnight]

What age is that?

[Shane Madej]

I don't know. I think it's very dependent, you know?

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, I agree. So wait, okay, so SciShow, you have a kids portion on it?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, there's a SciShow Kids as a separate channel.

[Amanda McKnight]

That's so cool. But you're not in it.

[Hank Green]

But your son knows you are in charge of that. You played a part in creating.

[Shane Madej]

But to him, my job is meetings.

[Hank Green]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

And just knowing science. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that's still pretty cool, but. And also currently, all these things you're doing, you are now currently trying stand up.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. It's been really fun, and I don't want to do it forever.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Shane Madej]

But I'm happy to be doing it right now.

[Hank Green]

You're brave for even hopping into it. Because I've had people try to tell me to do it. I am scared to death of it.

[Shane Madej]

Well, at one point. So when I was first starting out, I have a friend who is big in the stand up scene in Missoula. And I reached out to her and I was like, hey, I wrote this thing that I think I could do on a stage and it would be like, stand up comedy, question mark. And she was like. And I was like, what would I do? How would I find some time to do it? She was like, well, it's a small town, so I go like the Elks Lodge and do the open mic. And I was like, no, I don't want to do that at all. I definitely don't want to. I feel like I'm cheating to some extent. But I was like, what if we just rented a theater and sold tickets? So that's what we did. We rented a theater in Missoula. 100 person seats.

[Amanda McKnight]

Nice.

[Shane Madej]

100 person seats. 100 seats for people. And we rented it every Monday for two months. And I started with 10 minutes, and at the end of it, I had 60.

[Amanda McKnight]

And, oh, my God, wait, you started with 10? Cause that's pretty high. I feel like people usually do, like, five.

[Shane Madej]

Well, that means. Yeah, 10 is only two fives.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

No, Okay. I know you're a science whiz. Come on. Get off my back. So. Okay. God.

[Shane Madej]

Honestly, it's harder to do tight. It's harder to get.

[Amanda McKnight]

I completely agree with you. It's better to do longer. So would you ever yo yo on your standup?

[Shane Madej]

You know, I thought about it. I have a yo yo joke in the show.

[Amanda McKnight]

Well, we have a yo yo here.

[Shane Madej]

Do you.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, it's right here.

[Hank Green]

Oh, he's inspecting it.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, God. Is it. Is it a spin star?

[Hank Green]

Making sure it's of quality.

[Shane Madej]

It's totally gonna work. This is a. This is a good enough yo yo.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay.

[Shane Madej]

Am I gonna yo you on the show?

[Amanda McKnight]

I don't know.

[Hank Green]

I will describe it for our listeners. Oh, Hank Green is standing. I know. But there. For anyone on Spotify, there's some good. Oh, he's stalling it there at the bottom.

[Shane Madej]

Hold on.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, we can't. I can't.

[Hank Green]

We can't.

[Shane Madej]

I don't want to.

[Hank Green]

I don't know if the cam can see. Oh, what?

[Amanda McKnight]

You don't want to hurt anybody.

[Hank Green]

Spinning it around.

[Amanda McKnight]

Honey, you're hurting us already.

[Hank Green]

Oh, he has lost control of the yo yo.

[Shane Madej]

But I'm not that good.

[Amanda McKnight]

No, I meant with your talent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shane Madej]

I don't know if I can do it around the world.

[Hank Green]

Okay, okay.

[Shane Madej]

That was just another.

[Amanda McKnight]

It just goes.

[Hank Green]

It just shatters. Probably hasn't been broken in yet.

[Shane Madej]

Oh, it's got it.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, I was gonna say. Are you gonna do the triangle?

[Shane Madej]

I was gonna just do the triangle thing, but it's too sticky.

[Hank Green]

It's too. Guys, it's too sticky.

[Shane Madej]

Maybe I can loosen it a little bit.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, close. Okay. That was actually pretty good.

[Hank Green]

Almost rocked the cradle.

[Shane Madej]

Oh, thanks.

[Hank Green]

Bravo. Bravo.

[Amanda McKnight]

Our team had a yo yo. And I just. We had to.

[Hank Green]

We had to try. We had to see.

[Amanda McKnight]

Not that we didn't trust you. Yeah. Put it in your pocket. You can keep it.

[Hank Green]

You can keep it. Always remember us.

[Shane Madej]

It's a very. There's a lot of stuff here, so I'm actually not surprised that you.

[Hank Green]

There is way too much stuff, because this is here on our game stage, and we have, like, five copies of every board game ever made. So please take stuff forever. We need to get rid of a bunch of. We need Marie Kondo to come in here and just stop.

[Shane Madej]

Oh, I don't need her. I like to be surrounded by clutter. I want really.

[Amanda McKnight]

Does that help with stand up hits? Cause I feel like I did stand up for like six months and I feel like if I had stuff on my desk, I could not think, oh wow. Writing my set.

[Shane Madej]

Oh, no, no. I don't exist in a physical spaces most of the time.

[Amanda McKnight]

Tell me about that.

[Hank Green]

Okay. What?

[Amanda McKnight]

Let's talk about that. Thank you. After the yo yo bit indulgence, 15.

[Hank Green]

Minutes in, we realized Hank Green is insane.

[Shane Madej]

I don't know what I mean exactly. But like, I don't know that I don't see the things around me.

[Hank Green]

You're not affected by your immediate space.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. Well, I also, like often I just sort of. I feel like I'm very. I'm kind of internal. Like even right now. Okay. I feel like there's a separate little system running that's doing the visual part. Got it. But I'm.

[Hank Green]

You're a little too high.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

You're a little guy inside of a human robot suit.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, I like.

[Hank Green]

Okay. That's awesome.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. And certainly especially while I'm at a computer or on like in.

[Amanda McKnight]

So it does not matter if things are piled up. You can still like write.

[Shane Madej]

And my wife will come in and be like, I'm leaving immediately.

[Amanda McKnight]

She is me.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wow, Cool. So when you're. So when you're writing your stand up bit, like what gets you inspired to.

[Shane Madej]

I mean, it started from writing like my chemo journal. So I had cancer.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, yeah, you had cancer. Sorry that we didn't mention that at the top. I guess that is a thing that happened to you that you accomplished.

[Shane Madej]

Well, I don't know. People did things. And at the moment I'm in remission.

[Amanda McKnight]

Congratulations.

[Hank Green]

Congratulations.

[Shane Madej]

And so it's really good idea anytime you're dealing with significant anything in your life to be journaling. And so I was journaling just to keep track of symptoms, but also to deal with stuff. And it was like there were times when I make a joke to myself and then I was watching a lot of stand up because it was like the only thing my brain could latch onto. Cause you're so stupid when you're on chemo.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, really?

[Shane Madej]

Couldn't watch a movie. Cause I'd like forget the beginning by the end.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, that's so frustrating.

[Shane Madej]

And so, yeah, I was doing that. But the thought process again, the thought process I went through, I can't really remember it. Cause at some point I must have emailed Sarah and I guess I could look back and see and been like, how would I do standup.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Hank Green]

So you're going through chemotherapy and then in that you were like, I'm gonna write a whole standup set.

[Shane Madej]

Well, I started to write jokes. I don't know. Like, I was worried that I. So being funny is important to me. Being entertaining is important to me. And I was worried that, like, that's very. It's like, hard. It's like cognitively, one of the complicated things that people do. And I was worried that I'd like, lose it.

[Hank Green]

Oh.

[Shane Madej]

Because, like, you know, you get a lot of brain fog.

[Amanda McKnight]

You wanted to preserve it.

[Shane Madej]

And I also think that it's like a really. It's like a good way to keep your brain activated during the hard time. So.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, definitely good to deal with dark times, too.

[Shane Madej]

Comedy. Yeah. So I. Yeah. And then from the journal jokes, I like, wrote a video that I used some of those in the video. And then what I found is if I just like, sort of stood up in my office and walked around and said the jokes out loud, then, like, the jokes would make more jokes happen.

[Amanda McKnight]

Uh huh.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, yeah. You were kind of like beginning an improvised thought a little bit, and then you just attach them.

[Shane Madej]

What do you do from like, okay, I have curly hair now. Where do you go with that?

[Hank Green]

So you have curly hair now? Yeah, I remember I saw something where you were talking about that on Twitter and I was a little confused. So wait, you have curly hair now?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. Yeah. So chemotherapy shaved your head. Your hair goes away and sometimes it comes back different.

[Amanda McKnight]

Really, really, really curly.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, oftentimes curly.

[Hank Green]

Everybody here is nodding. I did not know that fast.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, I know.

[Amanda McKnight]

My aunt had breast cancer, and when she shaved her head, she had strawberries. Stick straight hair. It was just like that. Tiny, beautiful curls. And then her hair was just like curly.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Just completely changed.

[Hank Green]

How did I not know about this?

[Shane Madej]

Wild. Yeah, I didn't know about it either.

[Hank Green]

Wow.

[Amanda McKnight]

He's a new person.

[Hank Green]

What are the chances of it coming back different?

[Shane Madej]

Really high.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Shane Madej]

Like, it usually comes back curly, but sometimes people with curly hair, it comes back straight, straight.

[Amanda McKnight]

And then they're like, damn it. Maybe.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. Here's what I know about curly hair is that I think it's, like, better but harder.

[Amanda McKnight]

It's so much harder because temperature, humidity, products.

[Shane Madej]

You have so many products.

[Amanda McKnight]

The works.

[Shane Madej]

And I have to get it. Like, I could just fall out of bed in the morning and be like. And be done. Now I'm like, You're like, this curl.

[Amanda McKnight]

Is on its own.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. Sometimes it's And I like, I gotta get my haircuts more often. I gotta take showers more often, but I can't wash my hair as much twice a week.

[Amanda McKnight]

That's the only. That's the amount of time you can watch it.

[Shane Madej]

So just heads up for curly hair.

[Amanda McKnight]

So are you going to start a curly hair blog on top of all the things?

[Shane Madej]

I am the new Jonathan Van Ness. But for curly hair.

[Amanda McKnight]

Good morning, bitch. Or what does he say Good morning, sluts?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, does he say that? Yeah, that sounds right.

[Amanda McKnight]

All right. Damn.

[Hank Green]

Okay. I feel like in this episode, I.

[Shane Madej]

Don'T think that I'm going to be.

[Amanda McKnight]

Using that particular Good morning Science Sluts.

[Hank Green]

That's your new catchphrase. Oh, yeah, New man. After this sub science.

[Shane Madej]

We got him. We got the quote. We got it.

[Amanda McKnight]

I would be in.

[Shane Madej]

All right.

[Hank Green]

I will say if a TikTok starts with that, I'm going to watch till the end.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. I don't know if I got a really good fact sometime I'm probably going to yank out science lots.

[Hank Green]

Don't eat grass. Don't eat grass.

[Amanda McKnight]

You should. Because I was watching your TikTok and I was like, wow. Like, I was enthralled. I was like, oh, yeah, I wanna know that. I wanna know that. And you have this really fun, like, comedy element and you kinda get to it. You know how sometimes those videos you're like, all right, do I have to click something to find out the answer here? You know what I mean? You probably hate that too. So you kinda got to it. You were fast, you were witty, you're funny. You're grounded. So I loved your TikTok.

[Shane Madej]

Thanks.

[Amanda McKnight]

So you can take sign slits.

[Shane Madej]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay.

[Hank Green]

Yeah. I've learned a lot from your TikTok. I've learned not to eat grass.

[Shane Madej]

That's important.

[Hank Green]

No metal in the microwave.

[Amanda McKnight]

But there's metal in the microwave. I watched that too.

[Shane Madej]

That got a lot of views.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, metal in the microwave. But then you can't have too much metal.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, I mean, very confusing. Microwaves are weird. They bounce around. You just don't want them to bounce around and get concentrated in one area.

[Amanda McKnight]

I don't have a microwave.

[Shane Madej]

That's weird. Okay, well, how do you just eat cold food?

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, I put it in the oven. I heated up.

[Shane Madej]

The olden ways take a very long time. I'm hungry right now.

[Amanda McKnight]

I heat it up. In the olden days.

[Shane Madej]

I actually am a cold food guy.

[Amanda McKnight]

I like cold food, too.

[Shane Madej]

Oh, man. I'll be eating, like, cold curry and my wife's like, you cannot.

[Hank Green]

That's pretty good.

[Shane Madej]

And I'm like, if I heat it up, it'll have too much flavor.

[Amanda McKnight]

Too much spice.

[Shane Madej]

No, it's not the spice flavor. It's like, it gets all aromatic. And I'm like, no, no, keep. Stay.

[Amanda McKnight]

I just want it to be slimy.

[Shane Madej]

Slimy and creamy.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, my. You are so science gruel. Oh, God.

[Shane Madej]

Some Thai gruel.

[Amanda McKnight]

I hate that.

[Hank Green]

Damn. Do you guys have any gruel here? Yeah, big fan.

[Shane Madej]

Some coconut gruel.

[Hank Green]

You know, so much stuff. Are you, like, learning new things every day? Like, how do you go about learning new science stuff?

[Shane Madej]

I love learning stuff. You just, like, go down. You just, like, let your curiosity take you around, down the rabbit hole.

[Hank Green]

But I also feel like on TikTok, a lot of people are saying wrong shit. So if your curiosity can take you to the wrong source, sure.

[Shane Madej]

You have to have some good systems for knowing what is more likely to be accurate, what you can put more trust in. And when you. I mean, always. I like to get more than one, like, a piece of information from more than one direction. But there are also times when you're like, oh, this is not one of the directions. Like, I cannot trust anything about this. I need to, like, I can use what's said to do some research and figure out, like, what that stat's based on. But, like, you know, there's just. There's a lot. It's. People will say things, and then it will become a. They'll, like, cite the thing that the person said, and it's just like, that was just a person who said a thing. And just because they said it at the UN doesn't mean that they were right.

[Amanda McKnight]

Correct.

[Hank Green]

My TikTok feed. Every single day, I get served someone who's just saying a thing.

[Shane Madej]

Oh, yeah.

[Hank Green]

And I'm like, okay, I don't. You're just saying a thing. And then. And you've.

[Shane Madej]

You.

[Hank Green]

We were talking about it before you came on here about the lacrimal sack.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay.

[Hank Green]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

First of all, you got me, man.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

I watched. I watched your TikTok where a girl was like, where do your eyelashes go when they fall out of your eyelashes? And I was like, yeah, yeah. And you had this whole thing about the lacrimal sac. Thank you.

[Shane Madej]

Which is a real thing.

[Amanda McKnight]

Which is a real thing. But you said all the eyelashes go in there. And they're like. They don't want to tell you this, but you got to get surgery to get all those little eyelashes out of there. And I was. My stress level was High. And they were like. And then you were like, I can't believe you believe that. That's not true. And what? They just follow.

[Hank Green]

See you later, science slut.

[Amanda McKnight]

That's a science slut moment. Yeah, but I remember being like, damn, he got me.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, I mean, the thing is, if you got an authoritative voice, it's like, there's a certain way of talking, even where you're like, that seems right. But also, I've told you things that are definitely true before. And so.

[Amanda McKnight]

Exactly. And if the video just stopped there, I probably would have gone around to everyone, which is what I do. And I go, so this thing is true. Crazy enough. You know this sack right here filled with eyelashes? That's what I do. And people will be like, that's not true. And I'm like, don't debunk.

[Shane Madej]

And if you put true things around it, you'll be like, Cause humans aren't actually meant to live much past their sexual maturity. So once you're not able to have babies anymore, why does your body even take care of itself? So your teeth fall out and your lacrimal sac fills up with eyelashes.

[Amanda McKnight]

And then a woman who's like, oh.

[Shane Madej]

God.

[Amanda McKnight]

My teeth are next.

[Hank Green]

Doctor, I promise you, there are several people who didn't watch to the end.

[Shane Madej]

I know, that's why I don't like to make that. But that kind of content.

[Amanda McKnight]

But I don't know.

[Hank Green]

But it's so funny also.

[Shane Madej]

You gotta know. You gotta be like, you can't trust everything that you see.

[Hank Green]

No, it's a valid to these children.

[Shane Madej]

And also the grownups.

[Hank Green]

Mostly the grownups.

[Shane Madej]

The grownups have some issues.

[Amanda McKnight]

Do you ever touch on, like, I feel like I went through down a food science path and I.

[Shane Madej]

Food is so hard.

[Amanda McKnight]

Food is so hard. Like gluten in general. And I feel like I looked at these sites and I was like, this is true. And I started telling people and they were like, that doesn't make any sense. But I do have a question if you know anything about food science. Are brown. Are brown rice and whole wheat, Are they actually good for you?

[Hank Green]

Yeah, you told me the other day we were at.

[Amanda McKnight]

We were in line at me and.

[Hank Green]

You were like, you're like. I was like, I need to eat brown rice. But like, it's just. I don't like it as much. And you're like, it's actually. I heard it might be bad for you. And I was like, what? That's great news. I was like, I have to eat white rice. I'm actually that's also the problem. TikTok will tell you facts that you want to hear.

[Amanda McKnight]

This wasn't from TikTok. This is from a doctor.

[Shane Madej]

Okay, well, look, maybe. What kind of Dr. Doolittle? Cause you can't trust me.

[Amanda McKnight]

It was a doctor on TikTok who was selling me a probiotic. Dr. Phil said, and I bought his probiotic.

[Shane Madej]

So. So, I mean, look, in general, everything's the same. Like, it's not like, there's, like, our world is not great at getting us to eat the way that we should.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay?

[Shane Madej]

And this is a problem. It is too easy to eat too much because food is too good. Like, that's my big thing. I think the biggest problem is that food tastes really good now.

[Amanda McKnight]

It does.

[Shane Madej]

It just didn't used to taste this good.

[Amanda McKnight]

Correct.

[Shane Madej]

Like, I went through, like, we made a video, my wife and I, from her grandmother's recipe book, but it was just, like, a book with recipes pasted in it.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, yeah.

[Shane Madej]

And we made a bunch of them. And they're so bad. It's like, of course these people were skinny.

[Amanda McKnight]

Were they Jell O?

[Shane Madej]

One of them was called Mexican chop suey, which is just like. I think that's racist. That, I think, is a problem. You've had Mexican chop suey?

[Amanda McKnight]

I've had Mexican chop suey. Cause my grandmother. My Irish grandmother had, like, pasted from, like, magazines.

[Shane Madej]

Old school.

[Amanda McKnight]

Joy of cooking. Yeah.

[Shane Madej]

We made one called Welsh rabbit. And here's what Welsh rabbit was. It was toast with soup poured on top of it. But not any soup, just a can of soup.

[Hank Green]

Nightmare rabbit come in.

[Shane Madej]

I looked it up. It was something called rarebit, and that got turned into rabbit by the magic of language. And rarebit was like, a what? Like a bread soup in a place at one point.

[Amanda McKnight]

So you made this video with your wife.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Of you trying it.

[Shane Madej]

Super fun.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, I'm gonna watch it.

[Shane Madej]

Lots of, like, jello with celery in it. Just, like, awful stuff. Yeah. So in general, the brown is fiber, and fiber's really good for you. Like having, like, one of the big problems with the American diet is we do not have a lot of fiber in our diets, and that results in a lot of different problems that we can get into if you'd like, but are not pleasant.

[Amanda McKnight]

Can you do some tiktoks on this?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, maybe. Can you, please? The other thing is, I swear to God, I will eat less of a burrito if it's in a brown wrapper. I just like the fiber if it's like, A straight white tortilla. I will eat every bit of it. Cause it tastes, like, delicious, chewy, sweet.

[Amanda McKnight]

So good.

[Hank Green]

So perfect.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. But, like, if it's a wheat tortilla, I'm just not gonna eat the end, you know?

[Amanda McKnight]

So this whole time, I thought those were just bad for you. So I was like, I shouldn't be eating that.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. Look, the other thing is, it's all pretty much all the same. The problem is the food is so delicious. That's, like, my big thing. I think food is just too tasty.

[Amanda McKnight]

I love that food is too tasty.

[Shane Madej]

Especially like, just, I don't know, pancakes, sandwiches.

[Amanda McKnight]

Bread. I was gonna say bread.

[Hank Green]

Bread is a problem.

[Amanda McKnight]

Sorry. I went on a food thing. I kind of needed to ask.

[Shane Madej]

But also, also, also, I'm not a nutritionist, so grain of salt, everybody.

[Hank Green]

But also, Amanda. I also feel like food is too delicious. But also, we are bombarded with misinformation so much every day. I. And I noticed there's this trend nowadays where I feel like everyone wants to be the person that provides you with something new.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Everybody. On TikTok, did you know about this thing? And then I'm like, we don't have to all be the smart person. It's okay to not know things.

[Shane Madej]

I think it's. It's. It's a. In terms of Internet content, I feel a little bit like anything that can get views will get made.

[Hank Green]

Sure.

[Shane Madej]

The trick that works.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. When you do a lot of your TikToks, you usually have someone asking a question and then you answer it. Is that because you want to know? So you got that question and then researched it yourself?

[Shane Madej]

Oftentimes, yeah. It really depends on the topic. If it's about physics or chemistry. I usually can. You don't need a source to talk about how gases work. Like, I know what the gas law is. Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, wow. Okay, Cool.

[Shane Madej]

It's not that complicated. It's just.

[Hank Green]

Yeah, for sure, man.

[Amanda McKnight]

Sounds like a road I don't want to go down.

[Shane Madej]

It's algebra. You can do it. I promise.

[Hank Green]

Yeah. You're like my brother. My brother was just so smart. He took, like, organic chemistry, like, as an elective for fun in college, and he just, like. It just comes to him, but I can't.

[Shane Madej]

Well, we'll talk about the gas law afterward, and we'll work it out. It'll be fine. It'll be great. It's super interesting.

[Amanda McKnight]

Do you know you're a great dad? My God.

[Hank Green]

Is there a field of science you don't know?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, I mean, there's lots of stuff that. Like, what I. What I've gotten good at is getting information and like, being able to understand a pretty broad body of science and then being able to get that into an understandable form that is short and captivating.

[Hank Green]

I feel like that's the.

[Shane Madej]

That feels like my job.

[Hank Green]

I think that's the clearest sign of intelligence, though. Like.

[Shane Madej]

Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. I agree. Suddenly you're very intelligent.

[Hank Green]

No, I really think to be able to make something super intelligent. Stupid.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Is very hard.

[Shane Madej]

Well, I think it's. I think it's. I think it's something. If you work at it enough, you get better at.

[Amanda McKnight]

You get better at like the formula of it.

[Hank Green]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Fascinating.

[Hank Green]

Okay, I have like too many questions now, but.

[Amanda McKnight]

Mm. I'm really interested in this one question that you brought up today before we started.

[Hank Green]

Yes. You're talking about the imagery.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yes.

[Hank Green]

Okay. There was something. There was a thing going around on the Internet where people are talking about, like, what. How do you think? Right. What kind of imagery comes up in your head when you think of an apple? Is it a gray and white apple? Is there nothing there?

[Amanda McKnight]

Full color or is it full color?

[Hank Green]

And I was talking to Amanda about it and I was like, yeah, I see, like, not just the imagery, but like a video. Like scenes with an apple and it's moving around and stuff. But I saw on the Internet you mentioned, like, people think in imagery. Like. Or was it.

[Shane Madej]

It was John.

[Hank Green]

It was John.

[Shane Madej]

It was John.

[Amanda McKnight]

Dammit, Shane.

[Hank Green]

But you brought this up though. You were like, maybe authors.

[Amanda McKnight]

This is Hank.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

Hank has a brother.

[Hank Green]

I know.

[Amanda McKnight]

They're identical, right?

[Hank Green]

Are you guys twins? They're not. They're not even twins.

[Amanda McKnight]

I just learned that they're identical twins separated at birth.

[Hank Green]

I just learned that too. I thought they were twins and then I found out this entire time.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay. Hank Green. Side note, Hank Green is a brother. He's also a novelist. He wrote Fault in Our Stars.

[Shane Madej]

You guys are not twins of youtuber. I won't tell you who it was, but a well known YouTuber who yesterday was like, that's the same John Green as the guy who wrote the book.

[Hank Green]

Okay, now that's. I don't feel as stupid as them.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay. Yeah, well.

[Hank Green]

All right. So you think it's a Dre. You're like this.

[Shane Madej]

I picture an apple and it looks like an apple. I mean, it looks. It doesn't look like a specific apple I've ever seen before, but it looks like all those apples average Together.

[Hank Green]

Yeah, but you can think in color.

[Shane Madej]

And image and stuff, and my brother can't. He's got nothing.

[Hank Green]

Nothing.

[Amanda McKnight]

So he sees nothing.

[Shane Madej]

Nothing. He just knows about apples, I guess.

[Amanda McKnight]

When he's read. Do you think. When he's. You know when you're reading a book and you have the whole scene in your head. That's why when they turn books into movies, you're like, why they cast that guy? Because in your head, you've already cast him. Not everyone's doing that.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Why or how?

[Shane Madej]

I don't know. Isn't it wild? We're all ourselves.

[Amanda McKnight]

That's. I can't handle that. What?

[Hank Green]

And I hate myself.

[Amanda McKnight]

So you. First of all, you don't have a twin.

[Shane Madej]

No, I sincerely. I have one single brother, so.

[Amanda McKnight]

Your brother.

[Hank Green]

No, they're.

[Amanda McKnight]

Your brother was born a second before you.

[Shane Madej]

He was born three years before.

[Hank Green]

Three years. Basically. A second.

[Amanda McKnight]

Those are basically twins.

[Shane Madej]

Look. Yeah. I mean, it's been a long universe, so if you consider it that way.

[Hank Green]

In geologic time, actually.

[Shane Madej]

Shame.

[Amanda McKnight]

I went.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay. So. Okay, so some people. So you think in imagery, like us.

[Hank Green]

Okay, so we have nothing to talk.

[Shane Madej]

About, but do you have. Do you guys have.

[Amanda McKnight]

This conversation's over.

[Shane Madej]

Do you have inner monologues?

[Hank Green]

I don't. We were saying. I don't have, like, words going on.

[Amanda McKnight]

I do.

[Shane Madej]

I don't.

[Hank Green]

I don't either.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, and that kind of makes sense.

[Hank Green]

Because we're basically the same.

[Amanda McKnight]

If you can work. If you can work. If you don't think about the physical space that you're in while you're working, that makes sense. Because when I am working, my brain is going like, oh, that coffee cup's right there, and that pen's there, and I have no room to put my arms. And I can't think with all this stuff.

[Hank Green]

And that voice is going on in your head.

[Shane Madej]

Yes.

[Amanda McKnight]

Very hard for me to sit down and read for a long period of time.

[Hank Green]

And it sounds like you. It's your voice. Or is it like.

[Amanda McKnight]

She sounds a little. Hey, look at all this stuff goes. She sounds a little judgmental.

[Hank Green]

Bitch.

[Amanda McKnight]

She's like. Honestly. She's like, honestly. Listen up, bitch. Little giant sweat. No, I'm just kidding. She sounds like me, but again, a little cunty.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, no, I bet it. That sounds not great. I would. I like myself. Okay. But I don't need myself talking to me all the time.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

This episode is brought to you by Meundies. You know, underwear drawers are kind of like the Wild west of your wardrobe. There's often a collection of everything in there. You know, Christmas pairs from years ago. You got some certain brands, some other brands, and it gets to be a mix match. You never know what you're gonna get when you reach in there. But Meundies, man, once you wear those, that's all you're gonna want. The designs on them alone.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, my God.

[Hank Green]

Huge win. But they're also some of the most comfortable underwear. The most comfortable underwear I've ever worn.

[Amanda McKnight]

And they're so cute. Like, you can do flamingos, avocados, palm trees.

[Hank Green]

I wear my Christmas ones throughout the whole year.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, okay.

[Hank Green]

I don't care.

[Amanda McKnight]

Don't confess that.

[Hank Green]

I don't care. No, I'm a rebel that way.

[Amanda McKnight]

Guys get 20% off your first order, plus free [e-mail] Smoshmouth. That's Meundies.com Smoshmouth for 20% off, plus free shipping. Meundies Comfort from the outside in.

[Hank Green]

Let's get back to the show.

[Amanda McKnight]

Let's do it.

[Shane Madej]

What do you think in. What do you think? Because I will start to think in words when I'm about to say them or when I'm about to write them down. Other than that, I just think in, like, clumps.

[Amanda McKnight]

Clumps of science ideas.

[Shane Madej]

Like.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, yeah, like.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, like something like the. Like, fibrous foods is, like a clump. Like, foods that have fiber in them.

[Amanda McKnight]

So you think of them as, like, topics. Almost like Venn diagrams. Vibes.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. There's, like, squishy clouds.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, okay. Way better than Venn diagram.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Venn diagrams are too big.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, squishy clouds.

[Shane Madej]

And you can put your face in them.

[Amanda McKnight]

Did you have clouds? Like when you were a little baby.

[Hank Green]

And I touched the clouds.

[Amanda McKnight]

Fiber brown rice burrito.

[Hank Green]

One time, you're thinking, the clouds have all gathered. Like, hey, Hank, we need to talk to you.

[Shane Madej]

You're very touchy.

[Hank Green]

We need some space.

[Amanda McKnight]

That guy's gotta stop touching us.

[Hank Green]

Stop touching us. They're smoking cigs. In between, you're thinking, there's a real toucher. We got a real toucher.

[Shane Madej]

How do we get out of this man's head?

[Amanda McKnight]

I don't know, man. Yeah, he owns us.

[Hank Green]

I think in scenes, I. Like, literally, like, when I'm about to go do something, and it's always mundane things that I overthink. Like, oh, I'm about to go to the bank and deposit some checks. I imagine myself going up to the teller, and I see the scene, but I imagine all the wrong things happening. And so I Don't have voices in my head, but I do imagine other people saying shit to me, and I'm always imagining the worst.

[Amanda McKnight]

There's a word for that, isn't there?

[Shane Madej]

Anxiety.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yes.

[Hank Green]

Yes.

[Amanda McKnight]

But there's also another thing. It's like pre. It's preemptive anxiety.

[Hank Green]

Preemptive anxiety.

[Amanda McKnight]

Or like, you're worried about what could happen.

[Hank Green]

Anticipatory anxiety. Anxiety.

[Shane Madej]

Yes.

[Hank Green]

I absolutely have that, which is true. I had it for this episode.

[Shane Madej]

That's so funny. I don't have that at all. I just, like. I get myself in trouble. I like, just. I'm chatting. I'm like. And people are like, that's not how we act. And I'm like, well, I'm from Montana.

[Hank Green]

Wait, there's only moose where I'm from, so I don't have to worry about it.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, you're from Montana.

[Shane Madej]

I live in Montana 20 years now.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, so you live there right now?

[Shane Madej]

Well, currently I live in a hotel.

[Amanda McKnight]

How did you get here? One of your clouds. Yeah.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. I have lived in Montana since 2005.

[Hank Green]

That's pretty cool.

[Shane Madej]

3.

[Amanda McKnight]

Whoa. When Smosh was created.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

You moved to Montana when Smosh got created.

[Hank Green]

You got it. You had to get out of here.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, Well, I lived in Florida before that.

[Hank Green]

Oh.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Well.

[Shane Madej]

Wow. Yeah. Definitely better.

[Hank Green]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Were you born on the East Coast?

[Shane Madej]

I was born in Alabama.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, never mind.

[Shane Madej]

Was kind of the East Coast. Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

No, it's not.

[Shane Madej]

And we moved to. We moved shortly. Moved to Orlando after that.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

Disney World. We live in Disney World. So you lived in Epcot?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

You were in Paris?

[Shane Madej]

No, no, in the bath and the area where the, like, cavemen have their, like, hot feet because they haven't invented shoes yet. That's where I grew up.

[Amanda McKnight]

I don't remember that part.

[Hank Green]

I haven't. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay, so you live in Montana, obviously.

[Shane Madej]

I went to Epcot a lot.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. Yeah. No, you didn't.

[Shane Madej]

I did.

[Amanda McKnight]

I'm just kidding. You did. But. So you live in Montana?

[Shane Madej]

Mm.

[Amanda McKnight]

How is living in Montana for your, like, I don't know, creative?

[Shane Madej]

Very good.

[Amanda McKnight]

Flows is very good. Cause nature.

[Hank Green]

You like nature?

[Shane Madej]

I love nature. No. I am a monster and a chameleon. And when I'm in Los Angeles, I'm surrounded by all of these very, very hungry. Yes. Ambitious gremlins. Wanties.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wanties, yes. Wanties want.

[Shane Madej]

They want things. They want.

[Amanda McKnight]

They want.

[Shane Madej]

They're very wanty.

[Amanda McKnight]

So if you want something, the kids.

[Shane Madej]

Today would say, thirsty.

[Hank Green]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Amanda McKnight]

They're very thirsty.

[Shane Madej]

Very thirsty.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wanty.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Shane Madej]

They're not needy. They're wanty.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wanty.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

They're like.

[Shane Madej]

And then I get here and I'm like, I'm also wanty.

[Amanda McKnight]

I want, I want that burrito.

[Shane Madej]

What that person's doing. I want to be them. And I. That's also cool. I will also want.

[Amanda McKnight]

I also, I will also take that.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

The stars la.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. Yeah. See the billboards. I could have my face on a billboard.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, I understand. It needs your little devil inside.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. So I need to be in a place where all my friends are like schoolteachers and farmers.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yes. Because then you're like, I am.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Not I want, I am, I just am.

[Shane Madej]

And I have no ambitions and am never unsatisfied with my. No, I still want. But I definitely, whenever I go to a big city, I get. I'm like, whoa, there's so much. We could be so much bigger and do so much more.

[Amanda McKnight]

Uh huh.

[Shane Madej]

And it's bad. I don't want it.

[Amanda McKnight]

I understand.

[Shane Madej]

I don't want to want it.

[Amanda McKnight]

It's too much. It's too much like a little villain in your head of like we could take over the world. I kind of get it. But I would say that some people maybe think the opposite of living. Cause when I. I'm from Massachusetts, so when I lived in a small town I felt like I can't. Ah, I need.

[Shane Madej]

But the Internet now.

[Hank Green]

Yeah. You're kind of connected. You can't escape, I feel like.

[Shane Madej]

And also it's really nice so like my friends, like most of the friends of my friend group I have had since before YouTube.

[Amanda McKnight]

Uh huh.

[Shane Madej]

And like I was married before YouTube and so it's just like nice to have people who, who aren't that aren't like in the world. And I love my YouTube and Internet person friends and I love hanging out with them. But it is nice to have folks who definitely don't want anything from me other than just.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yes.

[Hank Green]

I love people who do not want to be famous.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. Which is most people. Once you reach a certain age, I think a lot of kids want to be famous and then a lot of adults are like, oh yeah, actually that's sounds terrible.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. They're like, no, I don't want to be followed around and have no private life ever.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. There's lots of degrees of famous.

[Amanda McKnight]

But that's true.

[Shane Madej]

I just don't like, I really don't want to have to like leave my house, you know, I relate.

[Hank Green]

Yeah, that sounds great.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Sounds awesome. And I feel like in Montana, there you have extra motivation because there's bears outside.

[Shane Madej]

No, I mean, I don't want to, like, get so famous that people, like, I need to, like, community or something. Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, yeah.

[Shane Madej]

I do love to leave my house and walk down to the corner store. Coffee shop.

[Amanda McKnight]

Coffee shop. And kind of make it also the corner store. Hank. Yeah, I like that. I feel like. I think that people who have grounded community around them and are in this fame world have more longevity with their career because you have to humble yourself in some way. Do you know what I mean?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. And I think it's just good to have to see other people trying to do other things and feeling satisfied with that. I can agree with you more.

[Amanda McKnight]

Just like, oh, wow, your teacher. This is your everyday.

[Shane Madej]

There's lots of ways to add value to the world and to feel really good and to, like, there's just lots. And if you're only around people who are doing it one kind of way, then it can feel like if you aren't getting what they're getting, that you never are. Like, everybody's always getting different things, and there's always somebody who's doing it more, making more, whatever that, you know, it is being around lots of people who are doing lots of different things and adding lots of value to the world.

[Amanda McKnight]

It also adds value to your creativity. I love hearing other people's stories on what are their habits? What are their rituals? What do they do every day in the morning to, like, how do they start up a project? Like, for you? Like, if you're doing a big project, like writing a book, how do you start up this project? What kind of gears you up? Oh, do you know what I mean? Cause I feel like teachers, it's different, but we all kind of have our little human rituals, right?

[Shane Madej]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Yeah. Wow.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. So wait, so you didn't answer my question. Was that.

[Shane Madej]

Actually, I'm not sure. Okay.

[Hank Green]

No, I don't wanna know.

[Amanda McKnight]

I'm not sure. So, like, what is the first thought in your mind where you're like, oh.

[Shane Madej]

I gotta do this thing I like creatively.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. I mean, usually I'm consuming some other creative work. So, like, with longer form things that I create, like books or comedy, I usually am consuming my own content again. So I'm revising. And then I move from revising into creating, which a lot of people don't suggest doing because they're like, you'll just revise forever. But I don't have that problem because I'm not A perfectionist at all. And so I'm just like. I read through what I have written maybe the day before, and then I sort of, like, tweak it, and then I'm like. And then it just keeps going, and I'm creating. And then it's also very similar when I'm reading, like, consuming other people's content. So I'll be reading a book, or I'll be looking at tweets, or I'll be watching YouTube videos, and I'll be like, well, if they had gone this way with that, it would have been a new piece of content that maybe.

[Amanda McKnight]

I could make little fluffy pillows, clouds.

[Hank Green]

Saying, you're not a perfectionist. I've never been more jealous of someone in my entire life.

[Shane Madej]

It's great. I saw somebody recently say that, like, perfectionists are just really good at seeing flaws. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm just really bad at seeing flaws, which is great.

[Amanda McKnight]

Which is why I think that you are so good at so many things, because you're like, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna do that.

[Shane Madej]

Seems possible.

[Amanda McKnight]

Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like perfectionists, they sit in the place of, like, they've already thought out all the scenarios that could go wrong or go right. And then they're like, it's almost like they did it and failed already, right?

[Shane Madej]

Or they just are trying to perfect it in their head. And I, like, I learned this lesson very early that, like, it worked when I followed this rule, which is, if it's in my head, it doesn't exist. Like, you gotta convince yourself of that.

[Amanda McKnight]

If it's in your head, it doesn't exist.

[Shane Madej]

Like, if you haven't done it, there's nothing there. So if you're, like, imagining an idea and you're thinking, okay, well, I can't do it yet unless I have this tool, so I have to get this tool. But then once you have that tool, you're like, it's. Well, but it would be better if I also was able to have this person working on it with me or this extra time that I don't have right now. Just do it. And if it sucks and it fails, that's a million times more valuable than a thing that's sitting around in your head taking up space. Because then it's out. It's not in there anymore. Gotta get it out.

[Amanda McKnight]

Those are the best words of wisdom.

[Shane Madej]

If you fail ever, it's like not taking up space in your head anymore, and that's a success on its Own.

[Hank Green]

Damn.

[Amanda McKnight]

Can you write that?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. There's a Ze Frank video about this. It's from 2006.

[Amanda McKnight]

Really?

[Shane Madej]

And it changed my life.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wait, who's the video of?

[Shane Madej]

Oh, God, Ze Frank. Do you know who Ze Frank is?

[Amanda McKnight]

No, I don't.

[Shane Madej]

He ran buzzfeed video for a while, but before that, he was, like, the first video blogger.

[Hank Green]

Wow.

[Amanda McKnight]

Because I love that because it's like, it just. And then the other projects take up space in your head, and then all piles, and then you're full, and you're like, what did I even do? What happened?

[Hank Green]

Oh, yeah.

[Shane Madej]

He makes the True Facts About Animals videos.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wait, that sounds very familiar.

[Shane Madej]

They're, like, very. They're very successful viral videos.

[Amanda McKnight]

True Facts About Animals.

[Shane Madej]

Like, has a. Makes jokes about weird animals. It's great.

[Hank Green]

You have no idea how much that quote fits into this show. Because we talk almost every week about things we want to accomplish and do, and we're always trying new things.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. We come on the show and experiment and have fun and play and just do it rather than thinking about it. Right.

[Shane Madej]

And it's so fun. The thing about doing it is it's so fun. And going from zero to one is the best. You know, like, that first step, taking the step.

[Hank Green]

Do it.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. And then the worst possible outcome is that it succeeds, and then you have this thing to take care of.

[Amanda McKnight]

Are you upset?

[Hank Green]

Are you then very upset that everything you do. I feel like you had so many success.

[Shane Madej]

It looked like everything, but it's not. I just do a lot.

[Amanda McKnight]

I kind of. So out of the things that you have done, what's the thing that you are like, ugh, this was like, my baby. This was something that I had some maybe concerns about. Or you're like, this is the one.

[Hank Green]

Or at the very least, what's a success that you were shocked that it succeeded.

[Shane Madej]

Oh, Vidcon was the thing really most weird that it succeeded, especially in the way that it did.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, yeah. You created VidCon.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. It's on the list.

[Hank Green]

When we told.

[Amanda McKnight]

It's on the list. Yeah, it's on the list.

[Hank Green]

Yeah, sure.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. And also the one that, like, was most awful that it succeeded in a way where it was like, it went from being like, I'm gonna throw a party for my friends, to being like, oh, and like, that first year, we had, like, put. We had, like, $100,000 on the line, and we had to, like, sign all these contracts and would have gone bankrupt if it hadn't worked. And, like, it was really scary, but it Was like, we made like 10 grand and everybody had a really good time and it was all friends and it was really small. It was like, you know, super. It was so good. And then the second year we did it, it was like, we're just gonna make money this year. We're not like, we have an llc. We're not like, we have, like, things are, like, working. We have people who know what they're doing helping us. And that was really great. But as it got bigger, it was like, this is so successful now that, like, I'm a public facing CEO, making a lot of decisions that affect people in my business world. And, like, they don't always like the decisions that I'm making. And it's very hard for me to justify them because, like, it's a human making. I might be making the wrong call. I don't know. It's really hard.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

That's crazy.

[Shane Madej]

And it got quite influential and it mattered a lot to people, whether they invited or which stage they were on, et cetera.

[Hank Green]

It's a huge thing.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, my God. That's a lot.

[Hank Green]

Amanda, I remember you went to your first one a couple years ago.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, I did. I was like, stimulation.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wanty. I was like, wanty.

[Shane Madej]

Oh, did it make you wanty?

[Amanda McKnight]

I was wanty. I was like. I was like, you guys seen the TikTok room? I was like, it has a theme, guys.

[Hank Green]

They're giving out denim jackets.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. Yeah. There was like a clothing label. I still have the jacket. They're like, it's free. I was like, what? I know this is a mango colored jacket. It was insane. And then I left being like, I have just too much stuff in my bag. Like, I was like, who have I become?

[Shane Madej]

Who have I become?

[Amanda McKnight]

So I hear you about Montana and LA. That's like VidCon for me.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Amanda McKnight]

If that was all the time, if I could have like all these, like, brand deals being like, we want you, I think I would combust.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, you'd be a monster.

[Amanda McKnight]

I would be a monster.

[Hank Green]

You'd be a nightmare.

[Amanda McKnight]

Who would look fantastic? I'd be the cunty voice in my head. Finally, I will stop talking now.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, that'll really. One thing I know is that success always solves them.

[Amanda McKnight]

Always shuts it down. Yeah. Right. Then another one pops up and it's like, hello.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, you're really. You really fill up the hole. Eventually, I promise it does get better.

[Hank Green]

You just got to get more followers.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

That's the only thing.

[Amanda McKnight]

Right?

[Hank Green]

Got to reach another 100,000 that's all that's going to happen.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, my God.

[Hank Green]

I remember when I joined Smosh, it was like in the first month because I joined in the summer of 2015, and then it was like, first month, they were going to Vidcon. So I went so quickly, and luckily nobody knew who I was. So I got to go and just observe it at first, which gave me a good, like, preparation.

[Amanda McKnight]

That's so cool.

[Hank Green]

And then it was a very gradual.

[Amanda McKnight]

Like, nobody knew who I was that first time either. Really? I don't think so. Unless I walked with you guys.

[Hank Green]

Yeah. I mean, it's crazy now. That's what's nuts is it started off and we could walk the floor, we could go everywhere, and it was so much fun.

[Shane Madej]

That's not like a big you thing. Like, you're just much bigger than you used to be.

[Hank Green]

I mean, it's just as smosh as a whole smosh, you know, the Pit channel and stuff. So nowadays we go and we can't, like.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Can't do a lot of stuff.

[Amanda McKnight]

We have to be able to do.

[Shane Madej]

It's.

[Hank Green]

It's. It's interesting. It's crazy, but it's a wild experience. It's huge.

[Amanda McKnight]

I did have a question for you. Sorry to go back on the science thing, but so you know how, like, the brown rice thing feels kind of bleak, you know, all these food things.

[Shane Madej]

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

[Hank Green]

Anyway, back to brown rice, but as you.

[Amanda McKnight]

As your, like, research journey into science and putting it on TikTok, what is like a science. What is like a science discovery that you found that makes you kind of optimistic? Oh, I feel like there's a lot of negative stuff out there, like climate change. Everything is just like, oh, what's in your food? Yeah, don't charge. Apple says don't charge your phone next to your head anymore.

[Shane Madej]

What?

[Hank Green]

We were just reading this beforehand, but then it blows. Ian pulled it up and it was because it. It's flammable.

[Amanda McKnight]

It could cause fires.

[Hank Green]

Cause fires.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wow.

[Shane Madej]

That's also bad.

[Amanda McKnight]

Also, I'd love a TikTok about that. If you could.

[Hank Green]

About the fact that we just told you. If you could repeat it to people, that'd be great.

[Shane Madej]

I'll look into it.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, look into it. I feel like there's a lot of bleak things about the world, and is there any optimistic scientific findings that you found?

[Shane Madej]

I mean, so many different things. Like, good news is incremental and slow, and so it doesn't feel like news. And so, like, that's the. It's not that there, it's not that, like, it's hard to sort of be like, this is a. But like there are, like, there is a. You know, antibiotic resistance is a big problem. It's a hard problem to solve because there's like, there's like weird economics around it. And we haven't created many new antibiotics in the last 20 or 30 years.

[Amanda McKnight]

Right.

[Shane Madej]

And there's just that there's a new set of research where they basically were able to look at how some antibiotics might work. And then they just sort of used AI to plug in millions of different potential small molecule compounds to see if they would have an effect on the bacteria that are the problems. And they found like, you know, maybe a dozen candidate molecules and then they just like bought those molecules from a place that synthesizes molecules and they tested them out and like, they work.

[Hank Green]

Holy shit.

[Amanda McKnight]

So in that sense, AI is great in that sense?

[Shane Madej]

Well, I mean, that's very different from like generative AI, how it works creatively. AI. Yeah. This is like machine learning.

[Hank Green]

This is the stuff AI can be.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, well, I mean, an AI taking jobs is like, that's scary. But like, lots of things take jobs and like, we just have to make sure that we try and do it right and share the wealth that is created in some way that is fair and also not use stuff that was. I mean, we have to decide how we consider training AI. Do we say for training an AI is that that's just like a person reading a book or is that using a thing? I think that it's more like using a piece of art to create more art. And so the person should at least be asked if their art should be used to train the AI.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. Right.

[Shane Madej]

And that goes for words as well. Right. But yeah, so that's like sort of a machine learning thing rather than generative AI. But like, that's very cool. There's a lot of like one, you know, this isn't like one thing, but if you look at the price of solar panels over the last 20 years or 50 years, like a solar panel used to cost like, you know, like $50 million and they'd use them in satellites and that's it. Now, the cost of renewable energy is wildly inexpensive and there's no sign that it's going to stop getting cheaper.

[Amanda McKnight]

That's so great.

[Shane Madej]

And also batteries are getting really cheap really fast and wind turbines are getting really cheap really fast. And the thing is that coal and natural gas can't get cheaper. Really. They're mature. And also you have to get the fuels out of the ground where you don't have to get fuel for solar panels, you don't have to get the fuel to the solar panel. The sun does that for us. So there's obviously lots of problems to solve still. But I went from being pretty sure that we weren't going to be able to solve the problem of climate change over the last 10 years to being like, it's going to be worse. Life's going to get worse in a lot of ways. But the main thing we need to do is to get people who are on the edge away from the edge so that when the shock arrives, they don't fall off the edge.

[Amanda McKnight]

So yeah, like in California.

[Shane Madej]

So, no, not physically on the edge, no.

[Amanda McKnight]

Listen to me.

[Hank Green]

We need to go to Santa Monica and we need to get them.

[Amanda McKnight]

We need to tell all the people who have mansions in Malibu, Amanda's going.

[Hank Green]

To be on the Venice boardwalk tomorrow being like, get out of here.

[Amanda McKnight]

The guy Rollerblade. Sir, you need to get back to your car.

[Shane Madej]

Venice edge is very edgy. No, it's wild over there. I'm like, okay, rollerblading with electric guitar.

[Amanda McKnight]

Montana to Venice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I was, I was in San Diego and someone's infinity pool. Yeah, just in the ocean, look.

[Hank Green]

Well, now it's really an infinity pool.

[Shane Madej]

You had to pay a fine.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, you did pay a fine because.

[Shane Madej]

Now it's the whole ocean. Now it just goes around and around.

[Amanda McKnight]

The whole earth over and over again.

[Hank Green]

Thanks, guys. Let me go do stand up. Got it. That's my one joke.

[Amanda McKnight]

Hey, Kaz. That.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to take that one and put it in my cancer stand up somehow.

[Hank Green]

Anyways, here's a quick infinity pool joke, then back to.

[Amanda McKnight]

I have to add this in for a buddy.

[Hank Green]

Shane, this one's for you.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay, so cool.

[Shane Madej]

It's just with any natural disaster or man made disaster, the people who get hurt the most are the people who have the least. And this is why you see like an 8.0 earthquake in Japan and an 8.0 earthquake in Haiti have very different consequences. Right. Very huge. So the biggest work that I think should be being done is trying to get people further away from poverty. And that's gonna help so much with climate change. Not just in helping them and helping the human consequence of climate change, but also people, when they come out of poverty, they have fewer kids, they do consume more resources because they should be able to consume more resources. But they also. We get much better at using land, so land use gets more efficient. People are able to have more resources to, you know, use tools so that they don't have to, like, use a piece of land for five years, and then they can't replenish the soil with fertilizers, and so they have to cut down more forest. There's all these, like, reasons why poverty is actually like, one of the biggest. Both causes of climate change and things to worry about when climate change is going to start affecting humanity in, like, a really serious way. That, like, that's the thing that. And that's not really, like, technological thing as. Except in. As much as, like, culture is technological. And we make the decisions, you know, we decide in some way. And like, a lot of this is implicit and like, we are, of course, products of our culture, but we decide where the resources get distributed. And they are not, like, they're very unequally distributed.

[Amanda McKnight]

Do you think that's anywhere close to changing at all?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, I mean, kind of. It doesn't tend to be like, there's a component of it that is decisions that get made by humans who decide to do philanthropy. And like, we don't talk about it, but the US Government does a lot of bad stuff, but also does a lot of development work and does a lot of human aid, especially during disaster circumstances. And also lots of other governments do that work too. But there's also just kind of a. It seems like there is an economic curve that places have to go through. They have to start consuming more and they have to, like, their economies build. And then after they reach a certain point, and this is the wild thing that nobody really predicted, as the economy reaches a certain point, it starts to consume less per person. Like, not just per, like, unit of economic output, but per person, like all of Europe. And like, like, when do you think, like, the US Is going to reach peak per capita carbon emissions? Never as it was 10 years ago.

[Hank Green]

Right. I think I did know that. I sincerely think I did know that.

[Amanda McKnight]

Shane wins this.

[Hank Green]

I don't know what a lot of this stuff means, but I think I did know that. I have to let you know. I think I did know that.

[Amanda McKnight]

I didn't know that. I mean, I've been very stressed about climate change, obviously, but I get really worried that the poverty situation is just. I just get worried that that's not.

[Hank Green]

And the Internet's very hard.

[Shane Madej]

It's very hard to solve. And like, like, it's, you know. But if you look over and like the last four Years have been very weird with COVID and Weird, like, global restructuring as we responded to Covid. But the. You know, if you look over a fairly long period of time, during any course, any period of the human history, poverty has improved. And certainly. And that's not to say that, like, oh, we did it. You know, it's like a trajectory is not a destination, but the trajectory is there.

[Amanda McKnight]

Well, I Like, what you said is, like, good news is always gonna come out a little bit slower. So it doesn't actually feel like news.

[Shane Madej]

It doesn't even come out. Yeah. Cause it doesn't feel like news because, like, there wasn't, like, one thing that made solar panels cheaper. It's like, every step of the way, little improvements here and there, here and there.

[Amanda McKnight]

And now people are like, yeah, solar panels. Yeah, let's just. Always. Just part of our lives. Yep, that's exactly how it works.

[Shane Madej]

Whereas bad news happens.

[Amanda McKnight]

Like, boom. Everyone get down. And you're like, what?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, you can see it in, like, the charts of, like. In, like, economic growth charts. They're like, they, like, very slowly increase and then they drop, and then they very slowly increase and then they drop. Yeah. So, like, shocks are shocks and growth is slow.

[Hank Green]

Do you know anything about. Any progress on something that I get concerned about? I'll get reminded of it every now and then is the Pacific trash thing. That there's just a bunch of trash, and it's like the size of Texas or something out there. I care about that.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

I get bumped.

[Shane Madej]

I think my.

[Amanda McKnight]

I don't know why I'm asking you to do.

[Hank Green]

Can you solve that for me real quick? I don't know.

[Amanda McKnight]

I'm like an assistant being like, hey, get out of here.

[Shane Madej]

What I can say, Shane, is I can say that, like, you don't have to be worried about everything because there are other people who are worried about things, too. And I think that we get asked by our feeds sometimes to become. For our job, to be. To be worried about every problem. But it's much, much better for you and the problems to be worried about us, like, to pick something and to learn a lot about that and to be able to be somebody who can say. Because I can't say about the. The garbage patch, because I don't know, to be able to say, like, here's what people are working on. Here's what people are thinking about. Here's what people are trying. Here's what the big concern is. Like, is it. It's obviously bad for there to be plastic, but, like, why? And how are they trying to solve those individual problems?

[Amanda McKnight]

I love that.

[Shane Madej]

Whether it's input, whether it's cleanup, whether it's like, is there a period of time where if you let that time pass, it kind of clears itself up? Like, there is an eventual period of time. I don't know if it's 10 million years or 10,000 or 1,000, but, like.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, yeah, we're being served all those negative things every day to make us seem like we are superheroes, that we can solve it all.

[Shane Madej]

You can't do anything. All you can do is feel like the world is ending and it's trash.

[Amanda McKnight]

Exactly. And people are like, oh, I'm on Instagram to look at funny videos. And it's like, they're like, oh, I need a break. And it's like, I understand why. Because we're getting served all of these things that are like, you need to look at it. And then we automatically think in our brain. Like, you just unlocked something that I was like, oh, yeah. There's someone who is also very worried about this, who is probably going to.

[Shane Madej]

Like, there are people working really hard on these problems. Like, I listen to this podcast. It's called Volts. That's just a climate change podcast. And it's like a really wonky, boring climate change podcast. And, like, you listen to it and you're like, oh, so, like, the problem is power lines.

[Hank Green]

What?

[Amanda McKnight]

What?

[Hank Green]

Power lines?

[Shane Madej]

So there's, like, authority authorities in states and the country that decide when and how you can build power lines. And the way that power is going to be produced in the future is going to be much more distributed rather than centralized locations of power plants. So you have to figure out how to get the power from the solar power plant to the grid. And so you have to have the approval to build the power lines, but they were built for a previous world, so no one works at these agencies. And they have huge backlogs of four years. And no one can build a solar power plant because there's like, the people who build the power lines are too busy. And, like. And so there's a bunch of people working on solving the problem of the busy people at the power plant or the power line authorities. And you're like, oh, so, like, this is complicated. And people are working really hard on it right now. Yeah, that's somewhat relaxing.

[Amanda McKnight]

I'm going to go.

[Shane Madej]

It's also frustrating that the problem is power lines.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Hank Green]

I was like, all right. I guess my thing I'll worry about is power line. Yeah, that's the one I'm choosing, which.

[Shane Madej]

Actually would be much better for the world because, like, no one's thinking about power lines right now.

[Amanda McKnight]

Right.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

They're all thinking about the bigger things that are not the power lines.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. And that are easier to make an Instagram about.

[Hank Green]

No, that's not gonna get clicks.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

I started a TikTok with like, guys, I'm gonna talk to you about power lines.

[Shane Madej]

Do you wanna.

[Hank Green]

Moving on.

[Shane Madej]

We need to talk about the grid.

[Amanda McKnight]

That's why I love your TikTok. Because that boring thing about power lines that the guy that you said volt, you said volts. Volts. It's like, you watch and you're like, I can't. And then your brain goes, I'll never understand this. Right. Whereas, like, I watch your TikTok about these little signs things, and I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[Shane Madej]

Like, I've met the guy now who does volts. And he's always like, wow, that TikTok you made. That's a summary of the two hour long podcast I did. Sure did get a lot of views.

[Hank Green]

No, Yeah, I worked really hard on that, man. Thank you for doing that.

[Shane Madej]

And I'm like, that's why I support you.

[Amanda McKnight]

Yeah. And that's why I like and subscribe and support you.

[Hank Green]

I feel like. I feel like you've answered this for us, but. Because I was gonna say, I feel like on your TikTok, and several times on TikTok, I get served stuff that's like, this breakthrough in science that's either about to happen or just happened is crazy. And I think you had one where you're like, something big is about to happen in science. And I'm always like, what is it? And then. And then like, either I don't. I need to follow up and be like, where? Where is it? What's the thing? Or it's explained. And I'm like, I don't understand.

[Amanda McKnight]

Sure.

[Shane Madej]

That's a big deal.

[Amanda McKnight]

I guess.

[Hank Green]

And so at this point, maybe you've mentioned the bridge.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Or.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about. It's probably the gravitational wave background news.

[Hank Green]

Which probably got it right. When I say that there's a microwave background in all of the universe. Right?

[Shane Madej]

There is, but that's not what I'm talking about.

[Hank Green]

I knew that, though. But see, I knew that, though.

[Amanda McKnight]

Did I get a microwave? Should I get a microwave?

[Hank Green]

It's different.

[Shane Madej]

You're being microwaved all the time. But like a little.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, no. Am I metal?

[Hank Green]

You're a Burrito. But a whole one or.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah.

[Hank Green]

Okay, so burrito. It's just the microwave.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. I mean, basically the news was so for the whole of history, since like Galileo, you know, we had one way of looking at the universe outside of Earth, which is optical telescopes. We look at light and we look at visible light at first, but then we could also look at visible light. Goes out both ways into like infrared and X rays and gamma rays, all these. That's all just light. It's just different wavelengths and that lets you see a ton of stuff. And looking at different wavelengths lets you see different stuff. And that's amazing. And so we've been mostly focused on finding ways to look at more wavelengths and more directions. But this news was that we can look at a whole new thing that could let us see pieces of the galaxy that like we cannot see, or that happened a long time ago. And that's to look at the stretching of space.

[Hank Green]

Okay. Whoa.

[Shane Madej]

Space will contract and expand when like massive objects do certain things. But also there was a big stretching of space that occurred when the universe was created. And by looking at light, you can't see the beginning of the universe because there was like no like stuff there. So there's like a horizon you cannot see past. But if we can start to filter out and like look at all these stretches and squeezes of space, we could. You know, right now what they're doing is like a bunch of stuff happens and it all overlaps and it creates like one weird curve. But if you can start to pull out the things that are making the different curves, then you can start to maybe look at stuff that we could never see before. But, and the way that we did this is absolutely wild. Where we have a device on Earth that's just like a 2 kilometer long laser and you can see the stretching and contracting of the laser. The way they did this is so they could get more resolution. They needed a bigger, longer laser. So instead of using lasers, they used pulsars which are in our galaxy and have a very specific flash. They flash it at the same speed, but when they stretch a little bit, that flashing slows down or speeds up because it's moving away from us or toward us, like a Doppler effect kind of thing. And so instead of having this two kilometer long laser, we have now a galaxy wide detector of pulsars that we can use to detect the stretching and squeezing of space.

[Hank Green]

What I fully understand what you just said.

[Shane Madej]

So it was like a telescope the size of a galaxy.

[Amanda McKnight]

Seven year old kid, like dad.

[Shane Madej]

What?

[Amanda McKnight]

But honestly, that is amazing.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. And so, like, we've only started to look at the. To be able to time these pulsars for the last, like 20 years or so. So as we get more data, like, it's literally. You just have to like, wait for more pulsar data to come in before we can.

[Hank Green]

Will that be in our lifetime?

[Shane Madej]

Yeah, it'll be in your lifetime, but I got cancer recently.

[Hank Green]

Don't so mess. Don't. Come on.

[Amanda McKnight]

Don't say that. That's another stand up bit. Add that to your.

[Shane Madej]

You said that to me.

[Hank Green]

I'm like that much younger than you.

[Amanda McKnight]

In your lifetime. But I have cancer. Thanks, guys. That's my time.

[Hank Green]

See you later, guys.

[Amanda McKnight]

Just gave your button shit.

[Shane Madej]

I got a bunch of things that might happen to me now.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wow. I feel like Hank Green just gave us our smart mouth.

[Hank Green]

Yeah. We do a segment sometimes, and it's funny when it's Amanda and I, a segment called smart mouth where we try to say facts that the other person doesn't know.

[Amanda McKnight]

Ye.

[Hank Green]

But it'll be stuff like, what's the largest animal that's ever existed on earth? You probably know that.

[Shane Madej]

Well, it depends on what you mean.

[Hank Green]

Like, largest. A vertebrate. Yeah, like. Like animal. Like, not like as a vertebrate. Yeah, let's go with vertebrate. Largest whale.

[Shane Madej]

Yes.

[Amanda McKnight]

I knew. I. I knew that.

[Hank Green]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I feel like you've said so many things that we don't know that we were gonna. We're gonna throw it on you and be like, hey, can you say a fact that we don't know? But you could probably say anything.

[Shane Madej]

Yeah. There's this thing called the lacrimal sac. It's where your eye is.

[Amanda McKnight]

Oh, my God. So I heard this guy saying that I have to get surgery and I have to get those eyelashes.

[Hank Green]

I have to get my eyes removed when I'm 50.

[Amanda McKnight]

No more brown rice and surgery. Got it?

[Hank Green]

Holy shit. You've said so many profound things.

[Shane Madej]

Here's a. I have a good fact.

[Hank Green]

Okay. Throw it at us.

[Shane Madej]

This is a cancer fact. Men are more likely to die of breast cancer than testicular cancer.

[Hank Green]

Okay, I did not know that.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wait, what?

[Shane Madej]

Isn't that wild? For two reasons. First, because testicular cancer is very, very treatable and curable. So, like, it's usually caught early. You can usually be cured just with surgery, and then you're done. Sometimes you also have to get chemo. But the chemo is very effective for testicular cancer. The second reason is that testicular Cancer is a young person's disease and young people can handle treatment much better. And a man who gets breast cancer is more likely to be in his 80s.

[Hank Green]

Wow.

[Shane Madej]

So it's just like.

[Amanda McKnight]

And does it spread quicker or.

[Shane Madej]

It's mostly that. It's like when you're in your 80s, it's a lot harder to control a cancer because people. It has a lot to do with sort of how the rest of your body is holding itself together. Well. Wow.

[Amanda McKnight]

I never knew that. Okay. Okay. That was a really good smart mouth.

[Hank Green]

So we've learned even more.

[Amanda McKnight]

Wow. Hank Green, you are so fascinating. And I am going to get both of your books before Shane.

[Hank Green]

No.

[Amanda McKnight]

And finish them before Shane.

[Hank Green]

Okay. Okay. Let's make this a contest. I'm gonna read his books before you.

[Shane Madej]

Hell yeah. What are you gonna do at home?

[Amanda McKnight]

Fine. Guys, follow Hank Green. When's your next stand up show?

[Shane Madej]

Oh, I'll be done by the time this comes out.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay, well, dream about Hank Green.

[Shane Madej]

It will come out. It will come out filmed and be on a place, but I can't say where yet.

[Amanda McKnight]

Okay, okay.

[Hank Green]

We'll keep an eye out for it.

[Amanda McKnight]

Well, thank you so, so much for joining us. That was amazing.

[Shane Madej]

Thanks.

[Hank Green]

Thank you so much, Hank. This was fantastic. Yeah. All right, well. All right, well, thank you for watching guys.

[Amanda McKnight]

Follow Hank Green on TikTok because your mind will be blown.

[Shane Madej]

But you also other places though. Cause I don't know what's gonna happen there. I think you look great.

[Amanda McKnight]

I'm the alt one. Oh, my.

[Hank Green]

Thank you.

[Shane Madej]

I'm sorry.

[Hank Green]

No, thank you. You're not the.

[Shane Madej]

I don't want you to go home and be like, God, I really gotta clean this neck.

[Amanda McKnight]

No, no, he does have.

[Hank Green]

I don't know if you've seen our funerals. We've already said everything to each other.

[Amanda McKnight]

He's fine. He looks pretty good.

[Hank Green]

What's going on?

[Shane Madej]

Expected more calluses. Cause you lift. Right.

[Hank Green]

Okay.

[Amanda McKnight]

Thank you.

[Hank Green]

Roast again.