D (4:06)

Okay, let's go to the day we're gonna talk about.

C (4:10)

I drove into work. No coffee, no donut, no nothing. It was a totally normal day. I took my lunch break, and when I came back from lunch, our judgment clerk came in and said, hey, Taylor, we just received this interesting judgment. I don't know if you want to take a look at it. And I knew immediately what it was about.

D (4:33)

The judgment was from the Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton's office against A doctor named Dr. Carpenter in New Paltz, which is in Taylor's county. But New York had enacted a shield law just for this reason, to protect doctors like Dr. Carpenter who provide abortion care out of state.

B (4:56)

Welcome back to Morning Joe. A new law gives doctors in New York state legal protections to now serve women in other states where abortion is banned. Protection, or New York, rather, protects abortion access and. And is a shield law protecting providers from out of state investigations and prosecution. So we have a.

D (5:17)

How did you find out about the New York State shield law?

C (5:22)

I first learned about the New York state shield law through a newspaper article when they were deliberating passing it. But I never saw myself being involved. It said that no government employee shall comply in any proceeding, civil or criminal, in a case related to health care services rendered via telehealth that are legal in New York State. The law is pretty clear. It says that you shall not comply with this.

D (5:57)

The Texas Attorney General's office was just asking Taylor's office to file this judgment against Dr. Carpenter for $113,000 and let the courts handle it.

C (6:11)

You know, I've only been in this job a few months. There was a lot of questions very fast, and I felt a lot of things at once. You know, maybe a little frustrated that another state was suing a constituent of mine. Then it was almost like fear, like, what do we do about this. We immediately started making phone calls to try to figure out what we should do legally with this. We called the Attorney General's office, told them what happened, and they were like, you do whatever you feel is necessary.

D (6:59)

I am shocked that the Attorney General's office said, taylor, it's up to you.

C (7:04)

Yeah, so it's. The county clerks are in an interesting position where we're not judges. Like, we just file the papers. So it was, yeah, really bizarre. We didn't know what was going to happen or what we were going to do. The Texas Attorney General's office was calling, like, almost every day for updates. They were like, do you have it? Are you doing something with it? Like, what's going on?

D (7:36)

He said he technically had 30 days to respond, but felt the pressure from these daily calls. So he was on the phone and in zoom rooms trying to ask people all around the state what the consequences might be either way.

C (7:52)

The Attorney General's office said, if you don't file it, what we expect Texas to do is to sue me. Likely to sue me in my capacity as clerk. And there's also the potential that they sue me individually for, like, obstruction of justice or something. And they gave me a heads up, like, if you play in this realm, you're going to make people mad kind of nationwide. So just be prepared for that. And it was another one of those things where, like, how do you prepare for that? I don't know how to prepare for that. Prepare mentally. Okay, but what, do I trap my house, like, home alone? Like, how do. How do I realistically prepare for this?

D (8:39)

Did you talk to your wife?

C (8:41)

Yes. We were walking the dog, and I was like, something came up, and it's gonna be a big deal. She was eight and a half months pregnant at the time, too. I was like, we have a daughter coming. Like, we are gonna receive death threats with this, probably. And she was basically like, you know, what are we scared of? Like, let's go.

D (9:05)

You are like, being used as a sacrificial lamb in a test case.

C (9:10)

Knowingly. Like, we went into this knowing that we were the test case. So it was either we do this or we really throw our constituent under the bus and push it off to the next time that happens. And I wasn't comfortable doing that at all.

D (9:28)

Where is your great uncle buried, if anywhere?

C (9:32)

Kingston.

D (9:33)

I'm imagining a scene where we go. We go there and tell your great uncle what you did.

C (9:37)

Oh, gosh. He might yell at me. I imagine he would have said, don't get involved. Go ahead and File it, shut your mouth and let everything play out.

D (9:53)

Was that option tempting to you?

C (9:56)

It was, but it still. I couldn't get past the fact that by doing that, I seemed to be breaking the shield law. And I wasn't comfortable with that at all.

D (10:10)

It was well before the 30 days. But he decided to do it and get it over with.

C (10:18)

It was me and my chief deputy and our judgment clerk. Our judgment clerk is typically the one that accepts or rejects, but I made sure to do this one myself because I didn't want to implicate her in any way. I felt there was a chance whoever hit that button is actually going to be litigated against as well. It actually says on the transmittal that sent who hit the button. When I clicked the button, I didn't feel relief necessarily. That's when it became real. A minute, maybe two minutes after we rejected it, my direct line rang. The Texas Attorney General's office called us and they said, we just received this rejection. Why was it rejected? And we told them, it's right on the sheet that we sent, but it's based on the shield law. We're not to comply with out of state proceedings. And they said, how do we remedy it? And we said, you can't. You don't remedy it. You can't file this in New York. And they were just kind of silent, which surprised me because I expected they were expecting us to do that.

B (11:32)

And the New York clerk says, hold up. No, we are not even accepting this court document from you.

D (11:41)

The Ulster county clerk says he will not file a summary judgment against a New Paltz New York doctor being sued in Texas for prescribing abortion medication via telehealth.

B (11:50)

Wait, I'm a little surprised to hear that a local clerk would know about this law and also be able to, like, unilaterally stand up to a judgment like this.

C (12:01)

We rejected it on a Wednesday, I believe. Wednesday. Thursday, Friday did not sleep well. Saturday I slept for like 17 hours. Like it, everything just stopped at once.

D (12:16)

Have you received death threat?

C (12:18)

I think I've received four realistic threats. One email that said, you know, if I catch you in person, I don't care, I'll catch an assault charge. And, like, you're gonna get it. But many of them seem like bots. One of them had their Facebook banner was the Russian flag.

D (12:41)

Do you worry that you now following this event, this decision might not be as beloved as Great Uncle Al?

C (12:53)

I do. I do worry that a bit.

D (12:58)

It's been months since Taylor pressed that reject button, but it didn't go away for him.

C (13:05)

Given the kind of severity of the different potential outcomes, that can be a little harrowing thinking, like, oh, you know, we might just get a court order that says we have to file this. Or, oh, you know, you might end up in jail. Little things concern me when I'm watching baseball and they show the Houston Astros score. Anytime I think of Texas, when a Texas license plate drives past me, I'm like, oh yeah, that's still like, in the waiting. I got invited to go to Texas Roadhouse recently and was like, oh yeah, I don't know if I'll be able to go to that state this time next year. Like, anytime Texas is brought up, it all comes right back. We're at a stalemate right now, just waiting to see what happens, waiting for them to get back to us. So reading the news stresses me out more than it generally did, I'll put it that way.

A (14:18)

Thank you to Taylor Bruck for sharing your world with us. Now, Anna did receive a text from Taylor saying that he had received another letter from Ken Paxton's office giving him one more chance to change his mind. He did not, in fact, change his mind. The original score for this piece was by Dirk Schwartzhoff. It was produced by Anna Sussman and Zoe Ferrigno. Oh, you made it. And if you missed even a moment, know the Snap Judgment storytelling podcast awaits your ears each and every week. Your reviews on Apple podcasts, on Spotify, on Amazon Music make Snap Snap. Snap Judgment's secret Fortress of Solitude is hidden within the bowels of KQED in San Francisco. No SNAP studios content could be used for training, testing or developing machine learning or AI systems without prior written permission. On Team snap, the union represented producers, artists, editors and engineers are members of the national association of Broadcast Employees and Technicians, Communications Workers of America, AFL CIO Local 51. Snap is brought to you by the team that knows to eat everything on their plate. Now there's Nancy Lopez, Pat Messina Miller, Anna Sussman, Renzo Goriot, John Facil, Shayna Shealy, Taylo Dakot, Flo Wylie, Bo Walsh, Marissa Dodge, David Exime, Regina Bediaco and this is not the news. No way is this the news. But this is PRX.

E (16:11)

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