Silence Speaks

Summary

Snap Judgment: “Silence Speaks” (May 21, 2026)
Host: Glenn Washington
Produced by Snap Judgment & PRX

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Episode Overview

This evocative episode of Snap Judgment centers on silence as a form of resistance—specifically, how expressing truth without words can challenge authority, protect the vulnerable, and empower the unheard. The main segment tells the true story of Gregory Gurevich, a famed Soviet mime who used pantomime to push boundaries under totalitarian rule. The episode then broadens the theme, exploring the historical power of mime in political protest—including the acts of legendary mime Marcel Marceau during WWII. The second half brings a lighter but resonant story of a high school student navigating culture, family, and first love through a Shakespeare play. Together, these narratives reveal the courage and cost of speaking up—sometimes by not speaking at all.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Joker’s Role: Speaking Truth to Power

• Opening Reflection (00:02–02:25): Host Glenn Washington draws a parallel between the archetype of the jester in history and fantasy—those permitted to say the unsayable—and the episode’s focus on those who defy by refusing to speak.
  • “The one person who can say what's actually happening has to be the Joker.” —Glenn Washington (01:21)

2. Gregory Gurevich: The Mime Who Challenged the Machine

• Gregory’s Beginnings in Soviet Russia

  • Describes witnessing neighbors "disappeared" during Stalin's purges, and learning the dangers of speech in a surveillance state (02:25–03:16).
  • Gregory finds voice as a mime: “Mime was a way to speak up without saying a word.” —John Facile (04:52)

• The Power and Peril of Silent Protest

  • Gurevich explains how mimes covertly criticized the government, protected by plausible deniability as long as no words were spoken (04:56–05:14).
  • Early performances, inspired by Marcel Marceau, touch audiences deeply even in hospital settings (05:14–05:55).

• Art as Liberation and Oppression

  • The transition from imitation to original, political pantomime stories.
  • On Soviet society: "In my heart, I wanted to help people. If somebody is tied with the ropes, I want to untie these ropes." —Gregory Gurevich (08:16)
  • Performing political pantomimes, especially “Man in the Sea”—an allegory for artistic freedom suppressed by authority (11:04–13:36).
    • “If government controls the artist, artist dies.” —Gregory Gurevich (13:36)

3. Soviet Censorship and Repression

• Era of Opportunity and Crackdown

  • Gregory’s troupe rises to fame during Khrushchev’s Thaw, then faces increased danger after the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968 (16:57–17:50).
  • Choosing to perform his most subversive piece, “Man and Machine,” on live television—resulting in immediate censorship (18:08–22:33).
    • “What are you doing? Are you crazy? Do you know what this piece is about? ... We completely prohibit this piece to go on air.” —Gregory Gurevich, quoting Soviet TV officials (22:17–22:33)
  • Banned from performing and teaching mime, Gregory faces isolation and poverty: “I had no purpose of my life.” —Gregory (23:25)

• Escaping the System

  • Gregory orchestrates a secret nighttime performance to create filmed evidence of his work (24:01–25:54).
  • He escapes the USSR, finding himself in New York with nothing but his photos, memories—and a critical view of American street mime (26:23–26:58).

4. Lasting Philosophy and Legacy

• Integrating into a New Life
  • Despite hardships, Gregory reinvents himself as a painter, sculptor, and teacher—his public artwork "The Commuters" can be seen in Newark Penn Station.
  • “Your inner voice is most important ... Your giving is a foundation of your existence.” —Gregory Gurevich (27:17)
  • On what he gives: “Whatever I can. My artwork.” (27:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “In Russia, you say, between three of us, one can be betrayed.” —Gregory Gurevich (04:47)
• “Mimes criticized government by using silent performance ... no proof that they did it, because they were silent.” —Gregory (04:56)
• “If government controls the artist, artist dies.” —Gregory (13:36)
• “He celebrates freedom. We celebrate spirit of human being, freedom of choice, freedom of existence...” —Gregory, describing “Man and Machine” (20:57)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:02–02:25: Glenn Washington’s introduction and the jester as truth-teller
• 02:25–04:45: Gregory recounts witnessing Soviet disappearances and his artistic origins
• 04:47–06:18: The subversive power of mime in Soviet Russia
• 07:10–08:41: The meaning of Marceau’s caged-man piece and Gregory’s connection
• 10:09–13:36: The politics of “Man in the Sea”
• 16:57–17:50: Climax of Soviet liberalization and its abrupt end
• 18:08–22:33: “Man and Machine” TV performance and its censorship
• 24:01–25:54: The covert midnight performance before Gregory flees USSR
• 27:17–27:39: Gregory’s life lessons and legacy in art

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The Historical Power of Mime as Protest

Silent Defiance, Ancient to Modern

• Panel Commentary (28:20–29:11): John Facile, Nimisha Latva, Marshall Palett, and Gregory discuss the roots of mime as protest, going back to Ancient Rome and its political satires, and its special power—“because mimes were silent, it was easier for them to get away with this.” (28:56, 29:04)

• Marcel Marceau’s WWII Heroism (29:11–32:18):

  • Marceau, born Marcel Mangel, helped smuggle Jewish children out of Nazi-occupied France using mime and clowning to soothe and calm them—literally saving lives.
  • “So they were all dressed as boy Scouts, and he was dressed as a boy scout leader. Christian Boy Scouts, of course.” —Marshall Palett (30:29)
  • Marceau’s “Mask Maker” act: “He’s so happy to be happy. And then he goes to take the mask off, and he can’t because it’s stuck ... finally ... he reveals his death mask, which is one of profound exhaustion.” —Marshall Palett (32:46–35:01)
  • Reflection on the existential role of mime and performative positivity in dark times.

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Second Story: “First Kiss” by Nimisha Latva

(38:08–48:30)

Memoir of Teenage Transformation

• Indian-American teen Nimisha auditions for her school’s production of A Midsummer Night’s Dream, surprising her immigrant parents and herself.
• Wrestling with cultural expectations, parental approval, and acute adolescent anxiety (40:52–40:53).
• Her first on-stage romantic moment—expecting embarrassment, instead finds exhilaration and agency:
  • “There is a hot spot where he made contact ... I throw my head back. I offer the young, nubile flesh of my neck. And that is when the director yells, ‘Stop! This is a family show.’” —Nimisha Latva (44:53)
• The story parallels the earlier theme: the courage to claim one's voice, even amidst awkwardness and constraint.

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Summary and Reflections

“Silence Speaks” artfully juxtaposes stories of artistic protest—of mime, of the unspoken—with those of everyday defiance and firsts. Whether resisting authoritarianism in Soviet Russia, outwitting Nazis with silent wit, or redefining identity through a school performance, each story in the episode testifies to the power and cost of voicing truth—sometimes by saying nothing at all.

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Additional Info

For photos and videos of Gregory’s work, see the episode show notes or Snap Judgment social media.

Credits:

• Produced by John Facile, hosted by Glenn Washington
• Additional thanks to Professor Steven Bittner, Chris Sakis, sound design by Renzo Gorio
• Special thanks to Broadway’s Marshall Palett and performer Nimisha Latva

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(End of Episode Summary)

Transcript

[Glenn Washington]

Snap studios. You know, no one will be shocked to learn that. I love fantasy. I love how modern fantasy reimagines history. Like George R.R. martin's game of Thrones. It was loosely, very loosely modeled on the English War of the Roses, which was cool. And the one thing that carried over from the history to the fantasy is the part of the fool, the jester, the clown, the Joker. In Game of Thrones, the closest we get to this ancient role is Tyrion Lannister. Now, officially, he's no jester. He's a lord, a Lannister. Hand of the King. But look at him. Drunk. The one everyone underestimates. The only one with the freedom to say the quiet part out loud. He'll only get a goblet of wine in the face for his trouble. The only one licensed to tell the truth. Because if anyone else says to the king, your war is failing, the peasants can't afford eggs, your queen is sleeping with the bodyguard, well, then it's off with your head. Kill the messenger. The one person who can say what's actually happening has to be the Joker. Cause he's just playing, right? Just having fun. He can say whatever he wants. Until he can. Then it's off with his head, too. And today on Snap Judgment, bad news, because our Joker stumbles across the line and he does it without saying one word. Snap Judgment proudly presents Silence Speaks. My name is Glenn Washington. Silence is a virtue that I don't have. When you're listening to Snap Judgment. Now, this should not be. But a lot of people in the US Are familiar with this story, right?

[Gregory Gurevich]

Black van with black windows coming from the street area into courtyard. They take this person from building.

[Glenn Washington]

That's Gregory telling Snap producer John Facile about how authorities dragged his neighbor away in the middle of the night.

[Gregory Gurevich]

They brought him into his van, their van, and they disappeared. That's it.

[John Facile]

Was it a man? Was he screaming? Was he.

[Gregory Gurevich]

No, no. Silent. No, silent. Never can forget that. That was 1951. About 1951. 1952. That was Stalin Stal.

[John Facile]

Since he left the Soviet Union five decades ago, Gregory Gurevich has lived in the same little apartment in Jersey City, just across the river from nyc. Is this all your artwork?

[Gregory Gurevich]

Yes, except this one.

[John Facile]

What's this one? The walls are just completely covered in paintings. There's mounted sculptures. And these masks are yours, too?

[Gregory Gurevich]

Yes.

[John Facile]

Wow. The feathers. He brought me upstairs, equally decked out. And in this little closet, there was a suitcase.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Yeah, I came with this briefcase from Soviet Union.

[John Facile]

Can we look? I can take it out for you.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Wow, you're a brief person. Okay.

[John Facile]

It was full of documents, birth certificate, all this stuff. Photographs.

[Gregory Gurevich]

That's my childhood, Siberia.

[John Facile]

Childhood child in Siberia.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Yes, exactly.

[John Facile]

And buried in the pile, Gregory pulls out a glossy black and white photo of a young man wearing white clown makeup.

[Gregory Gurevich]

That's me.

[John Facile]

I gotta take a picture of this. Gregory was. Is a mime. And here in America, mimes are kind of a joke, right? Like maybe you're picturing, you know, someone standing on a street corner, pulling an invisible rope, trapped behind an invisible wall, performing for TIP. But in the Soviet Union in the 1960s, when talk was perilous and everyone was listening.

[Gregory Gurevich]

In Russia, you say, between three of us, one can be betrayed.

[John Facile]

Mime was a way to speak up without saying a word.

[Gregory Gurevich]

So mimes criticized government by using silent performance. So it was only form of criticism which was permitted because it was no proof that they did it, because they were silent.

[John Facile]

So your first performance, how big was the crowd?

[Gregory Gurevich]

So it was about 20. No, not about 20. About 50. People. Sick people. People who are attached to the bed, but they can maybe stand up and can walk, can wash themselves, can go to bathroom, possibly.

[John Facile]

Gregory gave his first mime performance somewhere around 1962, when he was in his early 20s, for patients at a hospital in Leningrad. And how did they react to your performance?

[Gregory Gurevich]

It was fantastic. Audience received me so well. It's just unbelievable. It gave me energy. It gave me energy to continue.

[John Facile]

Gregory had rehearsed obsessively in his mother's apartment by the Neva River. He had about 20 minutes worth of material.

[Gregory Gurevich]

How to pick up flour, how to go against the wind, against the wind movement. When I performed in hospital, that was really imitation of Marcel Marceau. Pure imitation.

[John Facile]

The year before, Gregory had gone to see Marcel Marceau, the famous French mime, at the Leningrad palace of Culture. Did you know that it would be a totally silent performance?

[Gregory Gurevich]

I had no idea. I didn't know it would change my life.

[John Facile]

And in the packed theater in the dark, he'd watched Marcel Marceau, white face paint, black pants, striped shirt, mime picking up a flower in a way that he'd later copy.

[Gregory Gurevich]

He sees a flower and the way he is bending his body and how he smells the flower. All his gestures were stylized. It was not regular gestures like in real life. It was like a magic, complete magic.

[John Facile]

But Marceau was also known for stories, short plays of pantomimes he called memo dramas. They could be deeply philosophical, like the one where he plays a man trapped inside a cage who Manages to wriggle out, only to find himself trapped inside a smaller cage. And so on and so on until he dies.

[Gregory Gurevich]

With your body, you express condition of human being.

[John Facile]

So you really related to that Marcel Marceau piece?

[Gregory Gurevich]

Very much so, of course. Very much so. It evoke my inner, inner feeling towards the system where I was in.

[John Facile]

Gregory's Jewish and Jewish people in the Soviet Union faced a lot of discrimination. It was difficult for him to get a job. He had a special mark on his passport. So he understood that while the state promised equality, I felt on my skin and my body, resistance, oppression and secrecy were its currency.

[Gregory Gurevich]

People were ready to change in Soviet Union, they were ready to change in the system because system stuck. All this idea of communism, of socialism, people didn't believe it any longer. In my heart, I wanted to help people. I wanted to. If somebody is tied with the ropes, I want to untie these ropes.

[John Facile]

Oh, that's Marcel Marceau on the beach. Back in his apartment, Gregory shows me some photos of him and Marcel Marceau by the Caspian Sea. You look so young and handsome in this, Gregory. After his hospital performance, Gregory put together a small troupe of mimes from Leningrad who he trained and choreographed himself. And they joined a traveling theater that performed on stages and in farmer's fields across the southern Soviet republics. Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Azerbaijan, where they happen to play the same city as Marcel Marceau.

[Gregory Gurevich]

And we went to his hotel where he stayed and I told receptionists that we are mimes. And he came downstairs and he was so happy because he felt very lonely over there. No one to talk to and so on.

[John Facile]

And that's you two together in the surf? Yes, Lounging. What were you guys talking about?

[Gregory Gurevich]

All about pantomime. All about pantomime.

[John Facile]

By this point, Gregory had started to perform original material, stuff he wrote himself. Provocative, political. And Marcel Marceau liked his work so much that he encouraged Gregory to audition for the theater of Arkady Reikin, a famous Soviet comedian.

[Gregory Gurevich]

1,200 people minimum in audience. The biggest theaters in Soviet Union, in different cities.

[John Facile]

Reikin was known for his imitations of bumbling bureaucrats and other Soviet characters. He was subversive but entertaining, subtle but pointed. And he wanted to add a mime troupe to his show that also pushed buttons slyly.

[Gregory Gurevich]

I was very nervous. I was very nervous.

[John Facile]

The audition happened on a bare stage with a big time comedian and two others in the audience. Gregory had decided that his group would perform a piece he'd written called man in the Sea.

[Gregory Gurevich]

A group of pearl hunters are already under the water, hunting for the pearls.

[John Facile]

Man in the Sea starts with three mimes, all wearing black leotards. And they're moving in slow motion like they're underwater, stooping here and there to pick up pearls from the sea floor. And at the center of the stage, a woman in a blue dress lies flat, arms and legs slightly raised. And she's waving them, undulating, like she's part of the ocean current.

[Gregory Gurevich]

And they're passing her indifferently. They don't notice her. Only one of them, last one, notice her. He is wondering, what is this creature that he sees at this moment? And he realizes it's something very beautiful.

[John Facile]

Gregory plays the pearl hunter, entranced by this woman underwater.

[Gregory Gurevich]

He's a human being and she's mermaid. She's living on the bottom of the sea all her life.

[John Facile]

And as he comes closer, she rises and they fall into this kind of slow motion dance.

[Gregory Gurevich]

They are looking into the eyes of each other and they are really falling in love. And suddenly he feels that he needs to get air. And she doesn't understand.

[John Facile]

As the pearl hunter motors his arms, trying to swim towards the surface to breathe.

[Gregory Gurevich]

I need to go away. I need to go away. I need to get air.

[John Facile]

The mermaid summons her powers.

[Gregory Gurevich]

You stay here. I love you. You must be with me.

[John Facile]

She extends her arms and thumbs, thrusts them forward. She can control the ocean's current, and the pearl hunter can't swim against it. He's struggling, flailing. Finally, his arms go slack and drift upward above his head, like he's suspended in the water.

[Gregory Gurevich]

He loses his consciousness and he's gradually falling down on the ground on the bottom of the sea.

[John Facile]

So many pantomimes end with death.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Yes. We didn't follow American principle. Everything supposed to be happy end.

[John Facile]

Happy ending or not, they got the gig. This was exactly what Arkady Rykin and his producers were looking for. And what's the message? In man in the Sea, the artist

[Gregory Gurevich]

must be free to express himself. And if government controls the artist, artist dies. Artists cannot really survive.

[John Facile]

And that's what happened to you.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Exactly.

[Glenn Washington]

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[John Facile]

Gregory spent three years with the Arkady Riken theater playing to full houses.

[Gregory Gurevich]

People were sitting on the steps between aisles.

[John Facile]

Basically, you became the most popular mime in Russia. Is that fair to say?

[Gregory Gurevich]

Absolutely. You cannot even imagine how positive reaction was.

[John Facile]

The early and mid-60s were a comparatively liberal time in the Soviet Union. Yeah, you had to be careful about speaking your mind, but if you did, you might just get a talking to instead of being disappeared or shot. That all changed in 1968.

[Gregory Gurevich]

The Soviet Union announced this morning that its troops had been called into Czechoslovakia.

[John Facile]

When Red army tanks rolled into Soviet Czechoslovakia to crush protests there, but also to send a message everywhere.

[Gregory Gurevich]

It was very serious. If you joke or if you laugh on principles of communism, you go to prison or you will be destroyed.

[John Facile]

At around the same time, Gregory and his troupe were gearing up to take their next leap to television.

[Gregory Gurevich]

We were invited to a Television studio in Moscow to perform pantomime. Okay. And I selected man and Machine pantomime.

[John Facile]

Why that piece? Because that's the most political. That seems like the piece that you would be most likely to get in trouble for.

[Gregory Gurevich]

I think it's strongest piece in my performance. I just wanted to present strongest piece of my company. That's it.

[John Facile]

Man and machine starts with a mime walking towards the front of the stage.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Thorson is going free.

[John Facile]

He's swinging his limbs, not a care in the world, about to walk into the audience so he can go to

[Gregory Gurevich]

see sand, to see beach, to see force. And suddenly, and suddenly, when he came close to the end of the stage,

[John Facile]

he touches the wall, an invisible wall, a barrier, a force field.

[Gregory Gurevich]

And he's frustrated, he doesn't know what to do. He's turning his body around, he's trying to find. Find exit.

[John Facile]

Then the wall moves, wall pushes him back, pushes him back.

[Gregory Gurevich]

And he tries to resist back. It's impossible.

[John Facile]

Back to the back of the stage where the machine is waiting for him.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Two mimes in Lithards with the arms bent in the elbow. Their legs are spread out so they stay firmly like policemen. Their expression of the face is complete anger. Mouth is anger, brows up, eyes are in anger.

[John Facile]

Gregory played one of these two mimes representing an inhuman machine. They wrap their arms around the free man and then spin around him.

[Gregory Gurevich]

And he's fighting, he's fighting, but he cannot do anything. Absolutely. And finally he gave up.

[John Facile]

He falls to the ground. And then the two machine men grab him, pull him up, taking the same

[Gregory Gurevich]

physical position like they are.

[John Facile]

The free man has become part of the machine.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Now three of them face the audience, spreading legs like policemen with angry faces. And another man is coming on the

[John Facile]

stage, another free guy, swinging his arms, clueless as to what's about to happen to him.

[Gregory Gurevich]

He touches the wall, the wall pushes him back.

[John Facile]

And again the machine arms, the arms of these three mimes wrap around him.

[Gregory Gurevich]

And this machine is waiting for him to die. And he's twisting and turning around on the ground. And suddenly universe gave him energy. And he start to move.

[John Facile]

He starts to tear down this invisible wall.

[Gregory Gurevich]

He's beating this wall. He's hitting this wall, his leg, his arms, with everything. And he's breaking this wall on the right, on the left, like buildings are crashing down, which surrounds him, is crashing and falling down on the ground. And he's celebrating his lifting his arms. He's happy, he is dancing, he is going toward audience. And what happens with machines? They are falling down, heads Hanging down, their arms hanging down. And they are completely destroyed. We celebrate freedom. We celebrate human element. We celebrate spirit of human being, Freedom of choice, freedom of existence, freedom of what we want to do. That's what this piece means.

[John Facile]

The allegory of a monstrous, unfeeling machine was unmistakable, obvious. Even if Gregory had wanted to test the limits of Soviet repression, he couldn't have made a better choice.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Microphones and cameras and everything, they surround us. We are ready to perform.

[John Facile]

And on that Moscow soundstage, they had just started their performance, had barely gotten into it.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Suddenly, telephone calls from administration of television studio. What are you doing? Are you crazy? Do you know what this piece is about?

[John Facile]

It turns out that someone high up had been watching playback in the control room, and they were not happy.

[Gregory Gurevich]

We completely prohibit this piece to go on air. Stop that immediately. And that's it. That's it.

[John Facile]

How many people would have seen it?

[Gregory Gurevich]

Oh, all country, all country, all the Soviet Union. Everywhere, Everywhere, Any point of Sarah Union.

[John Facile]

Gregory was banned from tv, banned from performing and teaching mime.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Losing loss. Big deal. Big loss. Government prohibited me to express myself.

[John Facile]

He went back home to Leningrad, where for the next few years he struggled to make a living. He says he was so poor, at one point he could only afford bread and tea. Did you feel like you were drowning?

[Gregory Gurevich]

Absolutely. I had no purpose of my life.

[John Facile]

But why do you think that? You know, you were never thrown in the back of a van.

[Gregory Gurevich]

I could be very easy. It was just luck, absolute luck. You pay price for your decisions. You pay price everywhere. Sometimes you disappear completely from the world, so people forget you completely. And government will be proud that they reached their goal to destroy people who are against the government.

[John Facile]

Gregory knew that if he ever wanted to make art again, he'd have to leave the Soviet Union. But before he did, he decided to stage a break in. He asked four mimes, former students of his, to meet him at midnight, wearing

[Gregory Gurevich]

black

[John Facile]

color, outside the Leningrad palace of Culture, an industrial behemoth with soaring windows, where he'd first seen Marcel Marceau and later performed himself. It was a place he was no longer allowed to set foot in.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Can you imagine 12 o' clock at nighttime when I was not permitted to go there? Daytime even, and storage person. He knew me and he respects what I did because he'd seen my pantomimes on a big stage, and he let me in,

[John Facile]

and quickly, with just one light. In a small classroom studio, while one of his friends filmed with a rented 8 millimeter camera, they performed four of Gregory's pieces they did the acrobats.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Two acrobats are coming on stage.

[John Facile]

Funny walk, slapstick ensues.

[Gregory Gurevich]

It's a comedy pantomime.

[John Facile]

They did Black Square.

[Gregory Gurevich]

It's a symbol of. Of society.

[John Facile]

An abstract piece where the mimes move in lockstep to a piece of music that speeds up increasingly so much that

[Gregory Gurevich]

they finally break out. They collapse, completely break out. And I was predicting speed of society of today.

[John Facile]

They did Jungle, where a woman cuts her way through the jungle and wrestles a snake. They did man in the Sea. Why did it feel so important to film these?

[Gregory Gurevich]

Because I created first Pantomime company in Leningrad to have a record of that.

[John Facile]

They left just as quickly as they came. And only a few weeks after that, Gregory left the Soviet Union through a loophole that granted some Jewish people passports to travel to Israel. He never went to Israel. He flew directly to Vienna, then New York City, where a refugee organization put him up in a rundown hotel.

[Gregory Gurevich]

And then I went on Fifth Avenue. I was walking everywhere. I had no money.

[John Facile]

And it was on Fifth Avenue in New York that he saw his first American mime. Do you remember what he was doing?

[Gregory Gurevich]

He was doing pulling rope.

[John Facile]

Pulling the rope wall. Yeah.

[Gregory Gurevich]

Simple stuff. And then imitating people working on the streets, which is very primitive. And everybody was very impressed that what he did. But that's no kind of story or nothing like this. I was very disappointed. I felt that my future is not really bright.

[John Facile]

From that moment on, Gregory has reinvented himself so many times. At 88, he's an accomplished painter, art teacher, and a master sculptor. You can see his piece the Commuters in Newark Penn Station. And he never gave up on mime, even if the audiences were smaller.

[Gregory Gurevich]

My philosophy of life is your inner voice is most important than anything else. And you have to give to society as much as you can give. You give yourself to society. You're part of that. You're giving. Your giving is a foundation of your existence.

[John Facile]

And what do you give?

[Gregory Gurevich]

Whatever I can. My artwork.

[Glenn Washington]

Thank you, Gregory, for sharing your story with the snap. If you want to see pictures of Gregory at work and videos of his pantomimes, check out our show notes and follow SNAP judgment on social media. Special thanks to Professor Steven Bittner from Sonoma State University and Chris Sakis. Sound design and score for this piece were by Renzo Gorio. The story was produced by SNAP resident mime John Facil, who has another story for us. Right, John?

[John Facile]

Yeah. Thanks, Glenn. So while making this story, I got really obsessed with this idea of mime and like using your body to express creative ideas as a form of political resistance. And mime has always been a form of protest. Like, even going back to ancient times,

[Nimisha Latva]

there were 6,000 mimes in Rome.

[Marshall Palett]

Only in Rome, they were political, very strong.

[Gregory Gurevich]

They made satires about the Senate.

[John Facile]

Here's Marcel Marceau talking to KQED in 1971.

[Glenn Washington]

Wow.

[Nimisha Latva]

Well, they were very controversial.

[John Facile]

He repeats this idea that Gregory says in our story, which is that because mimes were silent, it was easier for them to get away with this.

[Glenn Washington]

Right.

[Marshall Palett]

And after I say, what did you say?

[Glenn Washington]

I said, nothing.

[Marshall Palett]

And people could feel even better.

[John Facile]

So there's this story about Marcel Marceau that is really amazing and encapsulates all this perfectly. Before Marcel Marceau was the world's most famous mime, when he was just a teenager who was into clowning and silent films, the Nazis invaded France. This was May of 1940, and Marcel was Jewish. His real name is actually Marcel Mengel. His father was arrested and sent to Auschwitz, where he died. He was murdered. Marcel went into hiding, and that's when he changed his last name to Marceau. And he also joined the French Resistance. And as part of the resistance, he helped rescue kids whose parents had been deported. He would transport Jewish orphans by train to Switzerland.

[Marshall Palett]

He did three train rides in 1943, and each of those carried between 25 and 30 kids, so saving between, you know, 75 and 90 children.

[John Facile]

That's Marshall Palett. He's a director and writer and choreographer on Broadway. And like me, he's spent a lot of time thinking about what happened on these train rides. I mean, they're so theatrical.

[Marshall Palett]

So they were all dressed as boy Scouts, and he was dressed as a boy scout leader. Christian Boy Scouts, of course.

[John Facile]

And like, on these train rides, there would be German soldiers in the same car as the kids.

[Marshall Palett]

And in order to keep them quiet and calm, so the tall tale goes, he would do little bits, little acts, little things that possibly became the foundation of his act.

[John Facile]

He had to communicate to them without words. He would use his body, he would make funny faces. And then he took that experience and built a career on it. That sounds a little crazy, but he did start performing as a mime, like, literally the second the war ended.

[Marshall Palett]

Yeah, I think it's all. It all seems very plausible that it went down kind of the way that we dramatized it went down.

[John Facile]

So as I was finishing up Gregory's story and learning all this stuff about Marcel Marceau, I learned that Marshall had co written and directed a play called Marcel on the Train, starring Ethan Slater from Wicked that was running on Broadway. And the play dramatizes these train rides. It fills in what we don't know with imagination. And then bits that Marcel would later perform on stage. What sort of bits does he do in this way to keep the children calm? What did you imagine?

[Marshall Palett]

We do a lot of shadow play. There is one moment where we have him using shadows from kind of a jeep that's outside the train car, a Nazi car that's shining light in through the window. And then he uses that light amidst the darkness to create these shadow puppets to calm the kids down. The kids are hyperventilating. One of the biggest ones we use was an act called the Mask Maker. You kind of move your hand in front of your face, and it changes the shape of your face. Like you're putting on different masks.

[John Facile]

Like you're angry. Move your hand, you're angry, your brows are up, corner of your mouth is turned down, and then you put your hand back and it's a smile. That kind of thing.

[Marshall Palett]

Yeah, that's one of the first bits that we have him do, and it ends up being thematically important as the show goes on. And the Mask Maker is one of his earliest acts, and actually it isn't his.

[John Facile]

So Marshall is describing here an actual piece that Marcel would perform.

[Marshall Palett]

He's a sculptor, and he's sitting with a neutral face, and he's carving something into an invisible mask. And he puts the mask on, and his face becomes very angry. And then he takes it off, and his face is neutral. And then he grabs from his mimed collection another mask, and he puts it on, and his face is very silly. And then he takes it off, and his face is very neutral. He's trying different masks on. And. And not only is his face changing, but his whole body is changing, his whole aura is changing. Eventually, he gets to this place where he has just a classic sad mask and a classic happy mask. And he's going back and forth really, really rapidly. Happy, sad, happy, sad, happy, sad. He's deciding which one he's going to pick. Finally, he picks the happy mask. And he starts kind of peacocking around the stage. He's so. You know, his face is not moving at all. It's just a. It's a mask. It's a happy happiness. And he's, like, so happy to be happy. And then he goes to take the mask off, and he can't because it's. It's stuck. So he's trying. He's more desperate and he's more desperate and more desperate. His face never changes, but you see his body language go from exuberance to panic, to despair to depression. And he's, he's weeping, but in this happy face. Finally, he's so exhausted, he takes a mimed nail and a hammer and he hammers the nail through the mask into his, you know, brain and dying. He peels off the mask and reveals his death mask, which is one of profound exhaustion. Oh, my God, that arc is so intrinsically more. So he finds a bit and then he, he iterates the bit and it's hilarious. And then he uses that bit, he subverts it to find some sort of sad little existential truth. If you'd shown that to me today, I'd be like, well, that's the story of Instagram. That's the story of performative positivity. You know, like, we try so hard to be happy, be careful, you might get stuck in it. And it's hard not to imagine him grappling with the role of delight and positivity and smiling in the face of the ultimate horror that one can experience. Like, what is the role of my positivity in this world where everyone is scared? It's hard not to think that that experience shaped the artist that he became.

[John Facile]

Wow, that's deep.

[Glenn Washington]

Snap producer Jon Fasile talking to Marcel Palette, director of Marcel on the Train. Thanks, John. Now, right after the break, first kiss. Snap judgment. You know that life doesn't follow a script, especially with money. Sometimes you need your cash when you need your cash, all of it. Not with fees deducted or fees on the fees. And Chime is changing the way people bank with the most rewarding fee free banking. This is fee free banking built for you with services I could have so used back in the day, like getting up to $500 of your pay. When you use my pay. There's a reason China was rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. Real humans 24 7. You're not just switching banks. You're upgrading to America's number one choice for banking with a Chime checking account. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com snap that's chime.com snap it only takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and ChimeCard provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges, stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on a J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, MyPay, Spot Me and travel perks, go to Chime.com disclosures. Welcome back to Snap Judgment. Silence speaks. My name is Glenn Washington, and for our next story, in high school, Misha Latva, she was used to keeping her head down and her test scores up. But then she surprises everyone by landing a lead in the school play. And the role comes with a chance to do something she'd never done before, to kiss an actual boy. And that first kiss. Wow. Nimisha Latva performing live at Story Fest.

[Nimisha Latva]

My dad moved us to America in pursuit of his version of the American dream. And in 11th grade, I try out for the school play, Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream. And to my amazement, I am cast as Helena, the girl who chases everyone but is not really ever chased back. Now, the boy playing Lysander is this kid named Randy. Now, Randy is a smoke in the bathroom, black leather jacket wearing real life bad boy, which is interesting to me because I am a JCPenney clearance rack wearing calculus tutor. Now, I've read the play and I know that there is one part where it is possible that Lysander, because he has magic love potion in his eyes, will wake up, fall in love with Helena. And there could be physical contact for me, first contact. I'm pretty excited. But there are like three obstacles I have to get through before I can have this adventure. The first two are my mom and my dad. And this is because they are good immigrant parents. And they say no, no to anything that can get me bad American influences. But I need their permission to be in the play. So I start with my mom. I'm like, mommy, please let me be in the play. And she immediately just says no. What do you think people will say when you are doing Shakespeare? You think they'll say, oh, very good, there's a girl who knows Shakespeare. No, they will say there is a brown girl trying to be white. You are who you are. Take some pride in that. So that did not go how I wanted it to go. So I'm a little better prepared when I go to talk to my dad. And I start off with, daddy, daddy, I think there are parts in the play that you would really like. Like there's this part in the beginning. Yeah. Where a father brings his disobedient daughter to the king because she's not listening to him.

[Glenn Washington]

And.

[Nimisha Latva]

No, no, Daddy, wait. Just let me read what the King says to the disobedient daughter. To you, your. Your father should be as a God, One that composed your beauties and one to whom you are but a form in wax. Daddy, say yes, because I got in already. He looks at me. You are a very bad ball of wax. But I get to be in the play. So I go to rehearsals, I start learning my lines. I'm pretty excited, but I haven't gotten through obstacle number three. It's the hardest one. It's me. The thing is. The thing is, despite all my excitement about the Lysander love potion scene, I'm actually pretty nervous. And that's because between my weird lunches and my very strict parents and this awkward thing that happened at a party recently, I know that, well, boys don't really want to be around me. And so what happened at this party was. It was a swim party for brother, sister, twins, and, well, swim party, half naked, wet people. I didn't even ask for permission. I just borrowed a swimsuit. It still had tags on. It didn't fit my friend. It was normal, not from the clearance rack. And I put it on under my street clothes and I just sneak out and I'm pretty excited to be at this party. I know that I'm wearing something relatively normal looking. Once I get into my swimsuit and I'm right, I'm right. I walk in and as I pass people, I just start collecting compliments. People are like, nimisha, nice swimsuit, or looking good, or my favorite. Someone really did this, like, hats stuff. It gets better. The boy whose party it is, he comes and sits next to me. He leans in and he whispers in my ear, nemesha, why are you still wearing your bra underpants with your swimsuit? My vision tunnels and I die. So people are still talking about me at school, people are still talking about me in drama. But the day for the Lysander love potion scene keeps going, getting closer. Until, of course, one day, it's the day I get to rehearsal and the director tells us what he wants us to do. So Helena is going to find Lysander on the ground. She will wake him up. He has magic love potion on him. So when he wakes up, he's going to fall in love with Helena. He's going to fall in love with me. The director wants him to take my wrist and kiss it. I'm supposed to stop him because he's obviously playing a cruel joke. Everyone's mean to him. In the play. But there it is. That moment of first contact I always knew would be there. But now my panic explodes. I know who I am. I'm a calculus tutor who smells a little bit like curry. I'm the girl who wore her underwear to a swim party. It just occurs to me, oh, my God. Randy doesn't want to do this. I am about to be rejected in front of the cast sitting in the audience. I just can't take it. I need an out. I look at Randy. Okay, Randy, it's okay. You don't have to touch me. Okay? You can just air kiss on my wrist. You don't have to make contact with me. It's okay. And Randy says, okay, I'll follow your lead. It's showtime. Helena comes to the forest. She sees Lysander on the ground. Lysander on the ground. Dead or asleep. I see no blood, no wound. Lysander could serve you live. Awake. Lysander awakes. He takes my wrist. I look at him. He looks at me. He kisses my wrist. There is a hot spot where he made contact. I look at him again. He looks at me again. I don't stop him. He can kisses my forearm. I still don't stop him. He gets to my bicep. Yes, indeed. He puts a kiss right there. I throw my head back. I offer the young, nubile flesh of my neck. And that is when the director yells, stop. This is a family show. I'm kind of mortified. I don't believe I just let that happen. What if someone tells my mom or my dad I'm gonna be dead tomorrow? But I'm also kind of excited. I'm pretty much living the American dream. I look at Randy and you know what? He looks pretty happy. And I suddenly know exactly what to say to the director. Oh, right. Sorry. Yes, I know how that was supposed to go. Yes, I know how to run the scene. But don't you think we should run it again? Thank you.

[Glenn Washington]

A huge, huge thank you to Namisha Latva. She's a playwright and college essay coach. You can find her at theessayadvantage.com and on Instagram at Namisha Latva. She performed the story live at Story Fest. And if you haven't yet heard of Story Fest, you should totally check it out. It's a national show that finds amazing local writers, journalists and artists to perform their work live on stage. You can see where Story Fest is going next and get [e-mail]. Now if you missed even a moment, know that an entire world of Snap storytelling awaits. KQD in San Francisco is Snap Judgment's orbiting hall of justice and big news at long last. Snap is now available. Subscribe for bonus Snap episodes, special Snap meetups and more behind the scenes. Snap [e-mail] on Team Snap. The union representative, producers, artists, editors and engineers are members of the national association of Broadcast Employees and Technicians, Communications Workers of America and AFL CIO Local 51. Robots and People Cosplaying as Robots Please note that no Snap Studio's content could be used for training, testing, or developing machine learning or AI systems without prior written permission. SNAP is brought to you by the team who would mostly not dressed up as a mime, except for the uber producer, Mr. Mark Ristich. There he is, miming it up right now, banging his head against an invisible wall. Uh oh, now he's climbing the stairs. Very nice. There's Nancy Lopez, Pat Mercedi, Miller, Anna Sussman, Renzo Goriot, John Facile, Shayna Sheely, Tail Ducat, Flo Wylie, Bo Walsh, Marisa Dodge. And this is not the news. No way. It's just the news. In fact, you'd suppose it'd be completely impossible to do a talky talk hour of audio radio storytelling about a mime. Well, that's what you think, right? And you would still, even then, not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is P R? Xometer.

[Nimisha Latva]

Get up. Get up, get out.