← Snap Judgment
Snap Judgment
The Hired G.U.N. - Snap Classic
00:49:12
Sir Dyno is the Chicano Eazy-E, the king of lowrider car shows, an up-and-coming gangsta rapper straight outta Northern California. But when he gets the money to finance his next CD, he has no idea that the same music that made him a legend will also lead to his downfall.
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- [00:03]
Lynn Washington
Snap Studios.
- [00:07]
Eric Glass
This is Eric Glass, the host of this American Life.
- [00:10]
Lynn Washington
So much is changing so rapidly right now with President Trump in office.
- [00:14]
Eric Glass
It feels good to pause for a.
- [00:16]
Lynn Washington
Moment sometimes and look around at what's.
- [00:17]
Eric Glass
What to try and do that. We've been finding these incredible stories about right now that are funny and have.
- [00:23]
David Rocha
Feeling, and you get to see people.
- [00:25]
Eric Glass
Everywhere adapting and making sense of this.
- [00:28]
Lynn Washington
New America that we find ourselves in.
- [00:30]
Eric Glass
If you haven't listened in a while, I honestly think these are some of.
- [00:32]
Lynn Washington
The best stories we've ever done. This is American Life. Every week, wherever you get your podcasts, did you know there's a cannabis company that ships federally legal THC right to your door? I'm talking about Mood.com's incredible line of functional gummies. And you can get 20% off your first order at Mood.com with promo code Snap. Whether you're looking for help with focus, cramps or even intimacy, Mood has a gummy for that. Best of all, not only is every Mood product backed by a 100 day satisfaction guarantee, but as I mentioned, listeners get 20% off their first order with code SNAP. So head to Mood.com, find the functional gummy that matches exactly what you're looking for, and let Mood help you discover your perfect mood. And don't forget to use promo code Snap when you check out to save 20% on your first order. Okay, so first of all, everything I'm about to tell you is all my fault. If anyone should have known better, I should have known better. It's just that I've been away from my extended family for a while. Somehow I forgot the insane survival techniques you must employ to survive our gatherings. Plus, I was hungry. So my aunties announce that it's time to eat and the backyard barbecue is set out. I make the mistake of getting up to fix myself some food. No one else gets up. That should have been my first clue. One of my cousins looks at me wide eyed, shaking his head warningly. But I figure if he's got something to say, tell me. After I grab a paper plate and start heaping potato salad on it. Then I hear one of my aunties, that's the potato salad you gonna eat? Then my other auntie, well, that's the potato salad on his plate, ain't it? And I know I've made a rookie error. Maybe some slight at church, maybe a missed phone call, perhaps some stray gossip. I don't know who did what, but I do know the two matriarchs are at war again. The latest Battleground being whatever I stick in my mouth. Everyone else turns away, leaving me exposed. So now I gotta pick through this spread this minefield of delectables, figure out who made what and choose a precisely equal amount from each faction, knowing the slightest misstep will have generational ramifications. Well, I love potato salad. I think I'm get some of this potato salad over here too. One auntie smiles. One fries, two pieces of fried chicken, two ribs, two pieces of corn on the cob. If there's not two of something, I'm not getting any, no matter how good it looks. I sit down now they're both glaring at me. And I'm nervous. I'm sweating because any expression on my face, whatever it is, will be seen as picking sides. Whatever I do, I cannot, I must not, I shall not pick a side. All my smart cousins wait until someone who is not part of the family arrives, invited for this very purpose. Christy. Beautiful Christy. Then everyone gets in line behind her. Today we proudly present the Higher Gun. My name is Lynn Washington. And today you've got to pick a side when you're listening to Snapchat. Now we begin the story about taking sides. A story about gangs, about the law, and about a rapper who gets caught in between. Insistent listeners should note this episode does contain some offensive language and drug references and understand this as well. Right now, there's historic truce between the Northern and Southern California gangs mentioned in this piece. But we're going back to a time before that, to a time when Tupac still spit beats and Joe Camel was king. Snap Judgment. Producer Jon Fasile brings us the story. Snap Judgment.
- [05:12]
David Rocha
Tell me about your name. When did you settle on the name?
- [05:16]
Eric Glass
That's funny. After I finished eighth grade, my mom took me to the bike shop and said, get anyone you want. Gt, who is a huge maker of BMX bikes, came out with a bike called a dyno. And I picked a chrome dyno. That bike was like, connected to me. Everyone would call me Dino Dave. So it wasn't this elaborate gangster name or anything like that. It was just kind of a childhood name that carried on and I just added the Sir. Sir Dino to it. Because at that time, every rapper was mc, MC Hammer, MC Shy D, mc. I said, no, I want to use something different. My name is David Rocha. Many people know me as Sir Dino. Yeah, everybody wants to know about Sir Dino. This Sir Dino Dino.
- [06:12]
David Rocha
Back in the 90s, Sir Dino looked like he walked off the pages of Source magazine. Crisp dicky shirt, creased KHAKIS snapback black hat, and dark shades.
- [06:22]
Eric Glass
It all started when I was broke in my apartment.
- [06:24]
David Rocha
He was trying to look the part of a Chicano Eazy E. That was.
- [06:27]
Eric Glass
My main thing, was to become notorious.
- [06:35]
David Rocha
But growing up, he was just one of thousands of young men in California who identified as Northeno or Northerner.
- [06:41]
Eric Glass
As a North Daniel, it was really just representing Northern California. It was about keeping outsiders outside of our neighborhood. Simple as that.
- [06:55]
David Rocha
He got in fights and was expelled from high school. He lost friends to gun violence.
- [07:01]
Eric Glass
So there's a lot of frustration. And I used to write poems about it. Just kind of vent and I cock it.
- [07:12]
David Rocha
A DJ friend got him to turn his poems into lyrics.
- [07:15]
Eric Glass
I didn't know how to stay on time. I started rapping in my house and didn't share it with anyone for about a year.
- [07:26]
David Rocha
He worked at it and learned how to make beats. He produced a demo, then pounded the pavement to book performances at lowrider car shows.
- [07:39]
Eric Glass
There was guys that could outrat me in a garage party, but man, my albums. I put my heart and soul into those lyrics. I see the clouds in the sky from a window the paint I feel the sign no one will ever know. It's like the show.
- [07:58]
David Rocha
He wrote songs about things he knew.
- [08:00]
Eric Glass
There's this thing called studio gangster. Oh, that guy's a studio gangster. Meaning they don't really do the stuff they're rapping about. Nobody gave me that memo because I was rapping about the stuff I was doing. Because I was a drug dealer. I was a gang member. I really did carry a gun at all times. I really did sell methamphetamines. I'd buy in pounds at a time. Thank God I never killed anyone, but sometimes I thought I was going to.
- [08:33]
David Rocha
By his third year in, Sir Dino was right on the verge of making all his dreams come true.
- [08:39]
Eric Glass
I shared a stage with too short, E40 in the clique, Cypress Hill Ice Cube.
- [08:45]
David Rocha
When he made the album that ruined everything. It all started at this taco truck.
- [08:57]
Eric Glass
Two tacos. Two tacos.
- [09:01]
David Rocha
What do you usually get when you come here?
- [09:04]
Eric Glass
Burrito carne asada with cheese crema and cilantro.
- [09:13]
David Rocha
Jessica's taco truck sits by train tracks in downtown Modesto, one of the many small cities that dot the dry, dusty San Joaquin Valley. In 1997, Sir Dino went to Jessica's to meet someone.
- [09:26]
Eric Glass
I just parked. He was here, you know, with his cousin. It was Robert Grattan.
- [09:35]
David Rocha
Robert Grattan, AKA Guero, nicknamed for his light skin, covered in tattoos. He had recently gotten out of prison.
- [09:43]
Eric Glass
Guero was a small guy, almost petite. Obviously, he had been doing time, so he didn't look weak, you know, he had a. An air of authority about him, and you automatically respected him.
- [09:58]
David Rocha
Grattan had reached out with an opportunity. He was a businessman who'd made some money turning used cars into lowriders. And he wanted to fund the next album by Sir Dino and his group, Darkroom Familia. He offered to split the profits 50, 50, which sounded pretty good to them.
- [10:17]
Eric Glass
We were broke, couldn't hold jobs or wouldn't hold jobs. Maybe we were selling weed or whatever. So we thought that was big time.
- [10:25]
David Rocha
As notorious as he wanted to be, the truth was, Sir Dino was 25. He was bouncing between his parents in a friend's trailer, juggling his rap career and trying to raise a one year old.
- [10:34]
Eric Glass
I was a dad with a daughter that needed diapers and needed food and needed things, you know, and times were hard.
- [10:41]
David Rocha
He needed the money. But there was a catch.
- [10:45]
Eric Glass
He goes, well, there's one specific thing I want, though. I said, what? He goes, I want it to be a North Daniel cd. And kind of hesitated. I was a northerner, so I'm like, well, I really was representing North Daniels and Norte. I'd wear red. I'd wear red bandanas or have red shirts.
- [11:10]
David Rocha
Serenos or southerners, the sworn enemies of northenos who wore blue bandanas and blue shirts with were moving up north from Los Angeles and clashing with northenos. But nortenos were also busy fighting amongst themselves. At Jessica's taco truck, Robert Grattan told Sir Dino he had a plan to put a stop to that.
- [11:34]
Eric Glass
You know, we're killing each other. You know, everywhere we go here, Modesto, Stockton, Merced Salinas, the Bay Area, we're killing each other. And we gotta put a CD together to unify the homeboys.
- [11:54]
David Rocha
The plan was to make an album that would unite north against south and serve as a Northegno rallying cry.
- [12:02]
Eric Glass
Well, the hesitation was obviously being a rapper. I wanted a nationwide audience, which included Los Angeles. And I knew by doing that album, I could possibly be cutting a huge portion of future success in that area. So my hesitancy was, is this going to interfere with those plans? And I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't. I thought it would just be a local thing. It's not going to hurt to do this little local CD.
- [12:35]
David Rocha
15 minutes away from Jessica's taco truck.
- [12:37]
Eric Glass
It could have been that one. I think it's this one.
- [12:40]
David Rocha
In a Beautifully landscaped apartment complex past tennis courts and swimming pools.
- [12:45]
Eric Glass
We recorded the entire album right here.
- [12:47]
David Rocha
In Robert Grattan's apartment.
- [12:49]
Eric Glass
I remember pulling up here the first time, and it was a lowrider, it was an Impala. And on his plates it said North Daniel. His license plate. Not his frame, his actual plate. He was very flamboyant in his North Danielisms.
- [13:10]
David Rocha
Recording would start around 7pm and go till the sun came up.
- [13:14]
Eric Glass
Recording song after song, or producing or recording or both. Letting the beat play for an hour while the artists that were gonna be on that song literally sat on the couch writing lyrics. Let me know when you're ready. I go get jack in a box, come back. You guys ready? Yeah. All right, who's first? I'll bring in the red light. So it's kind of set the mood for the artist.
- [13:36]
David Rocha
I know you didn't smoke or drink, but was like all that stuff kind of going on around you all the time.
- [13:41]
Eric Glass
Constant weed smoke, constant alcohol, a lot of meth, you know, and everybody's just kind of joking and laughing until I hit record, you know. Then everybody's quiet and they let the guy rap. Then I'd listen back to it and I'd say, okay, we got to redo this or redo that. Or I'd say, it's good. Then it'd get loud again.
- [14:04]
David Rocha
As they laid down their verses, Sir Dino and his crew focused on giving Grattan exactly what he'd asked for.
- [14:13]
Eric Glass
Well, I mean, we all knew what a northern album meant. It means we were going to unite ourselves by uniting ourselves against a common enemy, which is anybody from southern California.
- [14:31]
David Rocha
He called southerners, scraps and sewer rats on songs like you gots to kill. The album was called Gun, Generations of United, North Daniels Subtitle XIV Till Eternity and then the XIV, the 14. What was that about?
- [14:54]
Eric Glass
It's the 14th letter, which is the letter N for north. It's real simple. Yeah.
- [15:00]
David Rocha
The only thing Grattan insisted on doing himself was the album's intro.
- [15:05]
Lynn Washington
First and foremost, no matter where you.
- [15:07]
Eric Glass
Are, may that be on the calle or in the pintas. He said, I just want to say this. Those that know will know what I'm talking about is what he said. I said, okay, I'll just record it, you know. The primary purpose and goal of this.
- [15:22]
David Rocha
Album is to promote unity amongst each.
- [15:25]
Lynn Washington
And every one of us as North Daniel.
- [15:29]
David Rocha
The album took three months to record and produce.
- [15:33]
Eric Glass
As an album, I felt Gun was rushed. It was raw, but it was meant to be raw.
- [15:43]
David Rocha
But when it was released, it was an immediate local hit.
- [15:46]
Eric Glass
This album everyone was playing, seemed like every car that would go by, you know, bumping their stereo systems, it was the same bass line. You know, their whole car would rattle.
- [16:06]
David Rocha
Grattan had guys selling the CDs out of the trunks of cars all over Northern California. It even made its way onto the shelves of local Sam Goody stores.
- [16:15]
Eric Glass
A bunch of parents and teachers, and they went to the local Sam Goody there, and they were picketing, got us in the papers, pulling our CDs off the shelf. I knew that was going to generate notoriety and. And I knew that that meant sales.
- [16:32]
David Rocha
The Gun album also inspired a wave of violence. Red on red, crime came to a halt, but attacks against Serenos ramped up.
- [16:42]
Eric Glass
I've heard people say Sir Dino did more than all northerners put together. I don't think I felt any remorse.
- [16:51]
David Rocha
Finally, he was notorious. All he cared about was the money and the attention. But with the spotlight came scrutiny from law enforcement.
- [17:04]
Eric Glass
I would hear stuff, doing sweeps, and they would go people's houses, and they'd have the CD playing. Drive bys being done, and they'd see my cd.
- [17:19]
David Rocha
Cops in Northern California became very aware of who Sir Dino was. They started listening to his music. Meanwhile, the profits that Robert Grattan had promised failed to materialize.
- [17:30]
Eric Glass
We printed a thousand. And I'm like, okay, cool. We sell these $14 each. That's $14,000. So 7,000 to me. And then he calls me, he goes, hey, I need another thousand. Well, that means you sold the first thousand. No money. He goes, oh, no, no, no. I'm just using it because I got to make more money. I'll get you. So then the next thousand, then, hey, I need 2,000 more. Can you call the manufacturer? Five, six thousand copies in. I'm racking this up in my head. I'm like, dude, you owe me 40, 50 grand.
- [18:04]
David Rocha
By now, Serdino felt personally betrayed. He and Gratin had become friends. Gratin took him shopping in his other car, a Corvette. Sir Dino even performed at his daughter's quinceanera.
- [18:17]
Eric Glass
Everyone who ever knew you, he was already talking about doing a second one. What are you talking about? And I said, this guy's insane. You haven't paid me for the first one. It wasn't until months later, and I was getting actually angry and agitated at him that I went to go talk to him. I used to have a homie, but now he's a doping. So just put some cheap.
- [18:48]
Lynn Washington
When we return, Sir Dyno gets what's his snap judgment. Snap Judgment is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Welcome back to Snap Judgment, the Hired gun episode. Last we left Sir Dino, he was headed to a face off with the man who funded his hit gangster rap album and kept all the profits. Snap Judgment.
- [19:42]
David Rocha
Sir Dino came to confront Grattan in broad daylight in the residential neighborhood where his girlfriend lived.
- [19:50]
Eric Glass
So he said he was here. So I pull up at that light. I was coming this way, and I pull up right here. And I was angry. I came with the intentions of not leaving without my money. And he has the car on the lawn. It was an Impala, the one, the North Daniel one he had with the North Daniel plates. He has a car on a lawn, he's washing it, and he has a shirt off. I pulled up right here where we're standing, and I saw across his back, Nuestra Familia. I had to take a pause. The very fact that he was so open about it scared me.
- [20:35]
David Rocha
Nuestra Familia is the name of an infamous prison gang run by men in solitary confinement at Pelican Bay State Prison, a supermax facility on the coast of Northern California. Grattan had the gang's name tattooed in large black cursive letters across his back for all to see.
- [20:55]
Eric Glass
There's things that I grew up not knowing. One is NF they were nothing but killers and murderers. NF you don't mix with them or play with them, you don't get yourself involved or you'll never get out of that web. They're very secretive, and you will never know where they're at. It was almost like this urban legend that they're everywhere and they can find you anywhere you go. The truth to that, I don't know, but that's what I was reading. I calmed down. I did ask him. I didn't just, you know, keep going. I got off and had a maybe 10 minute conversation. I don't recall exactly what he said. It was probably the same rhetoric of, yeah, I'm gonna get your money. We're doing good, things are going great, that kind of same old thing. I was just nice about it and left. That was the last time I ever saw him.
- [21:52]
David Rocha
Cerdino walked away.
- [21:55]
Eric Glass
I never stopped needing the money. When I Saw the tattoo on his back. But I had to weigh into account of what it is I was dealing with.
- [22:06]
David Rocha
The Gun album never really found an audience outside of Northern California, but it did rally Sir Dino's fan base. And the next few CDs he released would go nationwide.
- [22:16]
Eric Glass
Miami, our records were there. Texas, our records are there. Arizona, New Mexico, you name it. Los Angeles. We were in every record store across the country.
- [22:28]
David Rocha
Royalties started to trickle in. Small checks at first, then big ones. Sir Dino bought a house and was finally living large, all thanks in no small part to the Gun album, his little local cd.
- [22:49]
Eric Glass
I moved on. I'm making music, I'm traveling. And that was just like something I had did. I was releasing an album every 30 days, not solo. So I was constantly in the studio all the time.
- [23:03]
David Rocha
But even while he was cutting records, he was still dealing drugs, which he then wrote about on songs like I Got the Crank. At the peak of his career, he was caught with 3 ounces of meth and placed on house arrest. Then, in late April 2001, two years after his last meeting with Robert Grattan, Serdino was called in to see his parole officer at a drab concrete building in downtown Stockton.
- [23:36]
Eric Glass
I go in one morning, walk right in, and as I walk in, I'm surrounded by FBI. They had slacks and windbreakers with FBI in the back. I think in yellow or white. They looked like agents, you know, and they weren't disrespectful. They. They were very calm but very authoritative. We're the FBI, and you're being charged under the RICO Act. Racketeering. I had no idea what they're talking about. I think you got the wrong person.
- [24:11]
David Rocha
The RICO act is a gangster's worst nightmare.
- [24:15]
Eric Glass
Everyone knows that's, like, for, like, Italian mob stuff.
- [24:19]
David Rocha
It's a federal law that allows prosecutors to bring criminal charges against a criminal organization like a prison gang.
- [24:31]
Eric Glass
Like, you have the wrong person. I have no idea what you're talking about. I kept saying that over and over, and they looked at me like I was ridiculous. They're like, oh, no, we know exactly who you are.
- [24:44]
David Rocha
Sir. Dino was told the reason for his arrest had everything to do with the Gun album. He learned that Nuestra Familia had been behind the album all along.
- [24:54]
Eric Glass
Killers, Killers. Killers. Kill us.
- [24:57]
David Rocha
Robert Gratton, a captain in the gang, had hatched the plan with one of the five bosses in the mesa. The five men at the top of the Nuestra Familia pyramid. They'd used Sir Dino as a mouthpiece. A hired Gun.
- [25:11]
Eric Glass
I didn't ask where the money came from. Why am I being charged for something?
- [25:16]
David Rocha
As the FBI put the cuffs on him, Sir Dino started making excuses.
- [25:21]
Eric Glass
If a drug dealer hires a landscaper to do their 10 acres, I'm not going to say, well, where do you get the money from? I'm just going to do the lawns as long as you pay the price. And that's what I was comparing myself to. I said, you want a rapper? You want somebody to do this? I'm not going to ask.
- [25:40]
David Rocha
He was arrested anyway. The feds believed Sir Dino was part of Nuestra Familia and knew the gang was funding his album because.
- [25:50]
Eric Glass
Because even the government understood that you didn't rub shoulders with these guys unless you were part of them.
- [25:59]
David Rocha
The Gun album was a key piece of evidence against him, proof of a conspiracy, and he was the mastermind.
- [26:10]
Eric Glass
Basically, that. I released the Gun album and I used Nuestra money to front a record label to release Gun to then make money to give back to nf. That's what I was being pulled into.
- [26:26]
David Rocha
Sir Dino was taken to Sacramento County Jail.
- [26:29]
Eric Glass
They weren't telling me anything. I'm, like, calling home, like, what's going on? And I'm sitting in my cell looking now, and I see this kind of burly black dude walking around with Jordans. And I realize it's Suge Knight.
- [26:43]
Lynn Washington
Welcome to Death Row.
- [26:46]
David Rocha
Suge Knight was also in Sacramento county jail in April 2001. Any other time, an audience with the head of Death Row Records would have been a dream for Sir Dino. But he was still confused and trying to figure out how he got there.
- [27:00]
Eric Glass
He just kind of nods his head. I was like, hey, what's up?
- [27:03]
David Rocha
Did you talk to him at all?
- [27:04]
Eric Glass
No, we just nodded.
- [27:08]
David Rocha
But Sir Dino wasn't there long when two guys from Nuestra Familia came looking for him.
- [27:14]
Eric Glass
One of them was stocky, like a prison build, big mustache, tattoo in his face. The other guy, same thing. Big mustache, but a lighter build. These guys confronted me and cornered me, like Sir Dino.
- [27:29]
David Rocha
They'd also just been arrested by the FBI on RICO charges. They asked him who he he was.
- [27:35]
Eric Glass
I said, david Rocha. What do you go by? Dino. They look at each other. They go off, had a little meeting, little talk, and they come back and they say, where's our money at? What money? Now I'm really confused. What money? Oh, you don't know what money? The G O N money. And the light went on. And I said, this guy. This guy sold me down the river.
- [27:59]
David Rocha
Cerdino realized Grattan, who had used him and lied to him about the source of the money behind his album, had also kept the profits of the gun album that he was supposed to turn over to his gang. What was he telling the NF about you?
- [28:14]
Eric Glass
That I was keeping all the money for the album, That I was dodging him, ditching him and spending the money.
- [28:22]
David Rocha
That money was what these two guys from Nuestra Familia were after.
- [28:26]
Eric Glass
I realized I could die and I had to think fast. I had to think real fast. And I quickly said, where's my money at? I had to turn it around because I couldn't show fear. I was scared out of my mind, but I couldn't show that.
- [28:44]
David Rocha
And then Sir Dino made another connection. He and these two Nuestra Familia guys had just been arrested and there was only one person linking them. Grattan.
- [28:58]
Eric Glass
And I had to say this to save my life. I said this, I said, listen, why is that person not here? Why is the only thing that ties me to you is that person? Why is he not here? And they went to the other side of the cell to talk. And then they came back and said, you know what, we're gonna pause this until we figure out what's on. Going, going on.
- [29:27]
David Rocha
What was going on was this. Robert Grattan had turned his back on Nuestra Familia. He'd become an FBI informant. In fact, he was the star witness of Operation Black Widow, a three year federal investigation into Nuestra Familia launched by none other than Robert Mueller, departing U.S. attorney for the Northern District of California. 21 people were arrested at the same time as Sir Dino Grattan had turned over three hundred and fifty names.
- [29:56]
Eric Glass
Grattan had gotten arrested months prior, gave up the whole goods on his organization that he belonged to, and when told about the GU album, blamed the whole thing on me. I don't know what the guy did. He was just trying to get out of. What is his situation? I don't know. You know, I can't speak for him. I could only speak for myself. I had no ties to Pelican Bay. I had no ties to any of that stuff.
- [30:23]
David Rocha
Sir Dino was pulled from his cell and taken in chains to a marble courtroom in San Francisco where the charges were read as his parents and brothers watched from the gallery.
- [30:33]
Eric Glass
I think I was just in shock, to be honest with you. I just kept looking out to my family. My family looked just as confused as I was. It was a big room, very hollow sounding, very surreal feeling. There was 21 of us. And all of us were lined up next to the judge, you know, on.
- [30:55]
David Rocha
The side, shackled next to Sir Dino. On metal bleachers in orange jumpsuits sat his co defendants, some of them already serving life sentences in solitary confinement. They ruled Nuestra Familia from the the small, bare, windowless rooms in the Pelican Bay.
- [31:11]
Eric Glass
Shoe man. Being a street gangbanger, even a meth dealer, was nothing compared to this. You're kind of a street hood guy, and all of a sudden you're being taken to court and there's Hitler and there's Saddam and there's bin Laden.
- [31:26]
David Rocha
The judge started to read off the charges because of the way the RICO act works. Cerdino was being tried for all the crimes of Nuestra Familia, not just the gun album.
- [31:38]
Eric Glass
They do RICO charges when they want to hit a whole organization. So if one person did a murder, one person did a bank robbery, one person did this, they get all of you for all of those charges. My understanding. So when I go to be formally charged and they're saying murders and threatening, DA's armored car vehicle robbery, all of this stuff, some of them were done in years when I was 10. So I'm like, are you kidding me? You gonna charge me with this stuff? I was a kid.
- [32:13]
David Rocha
Thanks to the RICO act, he was facing life in prison.
- [32:18]
Eric Glass
I'm not pleading to anything. Like, I'm a rapper. Like, what am I doing here? I will fight this all the way to the end because this is crazy. Don't step to me yet. They have.
- [32:30]
Lynn Washington
When we return, Sir Dinnell takes on the feds and an angry prison gang when Snap Judgment, the Hired Gun episode, continues. Stay tuned. Welcome back to Snap Judgment, the Hired Gun episode. Sir Dino has just learned that he's facing a life sentence for making a gangster rap album funded by a prison g the person gang that wants him dead. Snap Judgment.
- [33:06]
David Rocha
Sir Dino and his co defendants were taken back to their cells.
- [33:10]
Eric Glass
Anyone associated with Operation Black Widow was considered a threat. So we were all put in solitary. Actually, they cleared an entire pod just for us.
- [33:22]
David Rocha
The men in Sir Dino's pod had figured out long ago how to work around being held in an 8 by 10 foot cell cell for 22 and a half hours a day. Some of them had lived like this for decades. All they had was time. Inside, they taught themselves Nahuatl, the ancient Aztec language, which they spoke amongst each other so anyone listening wouldn't be able to interpret. They sent messages called wheelas, written in the ancient language in microscopic script. On tiny scraps of paper. So smuggled in clothing, lining and body cavities. That's how they gave their orders. They were, in some ways, the most powerful men in Northern California state prisons. Men who could have Sir Dino stabbed, strangled, or set on fire, even if he never left his cell.
- [34:11]
Eric Glass
You know, some of the guys are people I had heard of. All this time, I thought I was this gangster, you know what I mean? Cause I was a northerner and this and that. As deep as I thought I was, it wasn't until then I realized how naive I was.
- [34:25]
David Rocha
And he was scared. He didn't know if the two guys from the Western Familia had believed him when he said he'd never seen any money from the gun album. Then that first night, he was woken up at one o' clock in the.
- [34:38]
Eric Glass
Morning and an officer comes and gives me a package, and I'm just like, dude, this is. It felt like a Twilight Zone. I didn't know what's going on.
- [34:45]
David Rocha
One of the correctional officers was working for Nuestra Familiar. And they'd sent Sir Dino a gift.
- [34:51]
Eric Glass
Basket, saying, oh, this is from the fellas. It was coffee and a magazine and some soups and things like that.
- [35:01]
David Rocha
It was a peace offering. The next day, he was lying on his bunk when he heard someone's knuckles rap on the glass window pane in his door.
- [35:09]
Eric Glass
There was a guy. The guy was next to me, and he goes, hey. He goes, you all right? What's your name? I said, david Rocha. He. He goes, oh, you're the Dino guy. I said, dino? And he goes, yeah, they call me so and so. And I think my face went blank because I'd heard so many stories about him.
- [35:26]
David Rocha
This was a Nuestra Familia boss who'd ordered dozens of murders.
- [35:30]
Eric Glass
And he goes, you heard of me? I said, yeah, I know who you are. He goes, oh, if you need anything, man, I'm here. He goes. Back in the cell, the air was.
- [35:41]
David Rocha
Cleared with Nuestra Familiar. But in court, Sordino had given the prosecutors plenty of evidence for their case. They played Robert Grattan's Intro to the Gun Album, where he shouted out, those in the Pintas prisons, no matter where.
- [35:55]
Lynn Washington
You are, may that be on the.
- [35:56]
Eric Glass
Calle or in the pintas.
- [36:01]
David Rocha
They showed the album's cover, a photo of Sir Dino and his friends wearing red and throwing gang signs in the park.
- [36:07]
Eric Glass
And my Loriel's like, ed, which one of those things is illegal? They brought up, for instance, myself having guns in album covers. I'm like, well, you know, Terminator has a gun on his movie cover. What's the difference?
- [36:24]
David Rocha
The government relied heavily on the testimony of Robert Grattan, who said Sir Dino was the one behind gun.
- [36:31]
Eric Glass
This was his album, this is his thing. I didn't ask where the money came from. I saw it as contracted work. What was I guilty of? You know, to this day I still hold to that because what was I guilty of?
- [36:47]
David Rocha
Well, okay, but you were guilty of creating something that called for violence. Right. And that call was answered.
- [36:57]
Eric Glass
Is there a charge for that?
- [36:59]
David Rocha
There was. Sir Dino was on the hook for a single count of RICO conspiracy. But the government first had to prove Sir Dino was a part of Nuestra Familia. Nowhere on the GUN album do the words Nuestra Familia appear. Still, the government argued the connection was clear. When you were fighting the case, did you still believe in the Northenho cause?
- [37:25]
Eric Glass
Yes. The whole time I was fighting this case, Operation Black Widow, I still consider myself a Northern. I didn't hide it. I even said it in court.
- [37:36]
David Rocha
This was significant. The government cited Sir Dino's self identification as a nortegno for evidence. They believed Nortenos and Nuestra Familia were inextricably linked to the prosecutor.
- [37:49]
Eric Glass
To them, they're like, look, he's guilty. He's associated with Nuestre Familia. And I said, no, I'm not.
- [37:55]
David Rocha
Northenos and Nuestra Familia are linked to. That's true. In state prison, Nortenos are expected to pay tribute to Nuestra Familia and they often work together. But membership in one does not necessarily confer membership in the other. Norteno is a much looser designation applied to thousands of guys in dozens of cliques disorganized throughout the state. The million dollar question is, did you really not know that WEDO was in Nuestra and that the money for the GUN album was coming from Nuestra?
- [38:33]
Eric Glass
I really didn't know it. I really didn't. I had no idea I would ever talk to someone in my life that was that high up in the hierarchy of nf. You gotta understand, to me, these guys were mystical. These guys were untouchable. And for somebody to come and say, I am directly working with the three top generals of nf, that was beyond my comprehension.
- [39:01]
David Rocha
Nuestra Familia has a written constitution, an elaborate hierarchy and a mandatory workout regimen. There are rules for getting in.
- [39:12]
Eric Glass
I was not involved in any criminal enterprise of prison. I had never been to prison at that time. And to be in that gang, you had to have been in Prison. They actually brought a gang expert in to prove me wrong. And my lawyer asked a question, can somebody be a Northerner and not be tied to the nf? And their gang expert said, yes.
- [39:39]
David Rocha
As the government tried to save their case against him, Sir Dino spent his days and nights in solitary. His lawyer fought to get him out on bond. One morning, he was about to go before the judge when he heard a voice coming out of the corner of his cell.
- [39:54]
Eric Glass
There was a vent where you could actually talk to the person next to you.
- [39:59]
David Rocha
The voice in the vent belonged to his neighbor, the Nuestra Familia boss, who'd greeted him when he first got there. He was one of five members of the mesa. And over four weeks, Sir Dino got.
- [40:10]
Eric Glass
To know I was his only neighbor because on the other side of his cell was the wall. So I was the only one he could really talk to while he was in a cell. So I'd stand on my toilet and have conversations with him every single day, multiple times a day, talk about the outside. He had been locked up, I believe, since he was 18. He'd committed a murder. He was now in his. Maybe at that time, late 40s. He was, hey, David. He goes, you gonna go to court again? I said, yeah, I'm trying to get out, man. Trying to get out. And he goes, they're gonna let you out. They know you got nothing to do with us. He's, I want to tell you something, man. I want you to do me a favor. Oh, great. You don't want. You know. And I was like, yeah, he was listening. He was listening to me. Good. He's, you're gonna get out of this. I want you to know. I will never get out. I will never know what it's like to hold the newborn baby. Never know what it's like to sit in a park and picnic with my family. I will never know that, David. And this is the guy everybody feared. He goes, so this is my favor. I ask of you, anytime you want to do something really stupid out there, remember me that I'll never get out of this place.
- [41:26]
David Rocha
Did you feel like a little boy talking to him or something?
- [41:29]
Eric Glass
I did. I did, you know? But I believe that he was really, truly shocked, sharing his heart, and that affected me. They were killers. They were murderers. And maybe he was too, you know, but there was a human side to him. And here he is jealous of me because I actually have a chance at life, you know? And it just. It messed me up, you know? It really did. This is not the life I want Like, I have a daughter. I have a kid coming. This is not what I want.
- [42:25]
David Rocha
Three days later, Sir Dinah was released. His case never went to trial. He took a deal, pled guilty to a lower charge, which meant just a year of probation. Operation Black Widow, one of the largest gang investigations in history, resulted in the convictions of 75 Nuestra Familia associates and dozens of defections. The five members of the Mesa were moved from Pelican Bay to federal prison in Colorado. But despite protests from the governor, they were all put in the same prison.
- [42:59]
Lynn Washington
I was giving specific orders to organize all the different little cities in Northern California.
- [43:06]
David Rocha
Robert Grattan, AKA Guero, published a book about his experience at the center of the case and was interviewed on 60 Minutes, where he took full credit for the Gun album.
- [43:17]
Lynn Washington
So I put together a gangsta rap CD to reach the youth and let them know that the Nuestra Familia was still in charge.
- [43:29]
David Rocha
He entered witness Protection and eventually died at age 44 in a car accident. Sir Dino was able to walk out of the courthouse a free man, but not a changed one.
- [43:41]
Eric Glass
I didn't have any job skills. All I knew was to rap and sell drugs, and I didn't know how to get out.
- [43:46]
David Rocha
His rap profile had been definitively boosted by the RICO charge. He was more notorious now than he'd ever dreamed.
- [43:53]
Eric Glass
If you're a rapper, a gangster rapper with RICO charges, that's, like, the perfect thing you get asked for. Rappers will dream about that stuff. You know, Everyone wants to be 50 Cent, be shot nine times and survive. My sales rocketed. I felt like I had to now be Sir Dino.
- [44:13]
David Rocha
He quickly dropped a track to capitalize on the infamy.
- [44:17]
Eric Glass
Just about as gangster rap as you're gonna get.
- [44:19]
David Rocha
The song's called Rico, Mr. Rico. This did not sit well with law enforcement. While Sir Dino was still on federal bond, the police dispatched an informant. He was caught on tape selling a small amount of meth and sentenced to 13 years in prison. Because of his history with Nuestra Familia and the Black Widow case, Sir Dino was put in solitary confinement again. Except this time the light switch was broken.
- [44:57]
Eric Glass
So it was, like, bright. Like a hospital in my room. And it's weird because you would think, like, well, big deal. That's, like. It messes with you. Like, they don't give you a thick blanket, so it's not like I could cover my eyes with anything. They gave you a sheet, like a bed sheet, and I think a towel. So you use your towel for your pillow. So I was just in complete, bright white light. And that's a torture unto itself. And there's this, like, scratched metal that's supposed to be your mirror. And you realize you actually have to look at who you really are. And most of us probably won't like what we see. And I don't mean physically. I don't mean attractiveness. I mean just who you see in your eyes when you look in the mirror. Away from the noise of life, what did you see? I saw a man that blamed everyone else instead of blaming me. I am a bad person. I'm a criminal, and I do belong here. I was involved in the life. And the repercussions of that life is exactly what happens.
- [46:14]
David Rocha
He no longer had the shades or gold chain or creased khakis. After a decade of wearing red and claiming North Daniel, he was done, finally broken.
- [46:27]
Eric Glass
I try to die and nobody hears me. Nobody hears me.
- [46:35]
David Rocha
He stopped going by Dino, and when members of his rap group came to visit him in prison, he told them he was out.
- [46:40]
Eric Glass
You know, keep the royalties, whatever. I don't care. I don't want that money. I want that stuff to die.
- [46:47]
David Rocha
He was still recognized from time to time by guys inside.
- [46:50]
Eric Glass
A lot of times, when somebody would compliment me, I'd say, thanks. You know, be like, thanks, man. I put my heart and soul in my music.
- [46:59]
David Rocha
David Rocha became a model prisoner. His sentence was reduced to six years, and for the last two, he was transferred to a federal prison camp.
- [47:08]
Eric Glass
Federal prison camp has no barbed wire. You could escape if you could walk off if you wanted to.
- [47:14]
David Rocha
In the housing unit, a young guy.
- [47:16]
Eric Glass
Came up to him and said, I know who you are. I know who you are. You're Dino. And he was really excited, you know, and he had this huge smile. I said, yeah, but that's not me anymore. And he goes, yeah, but you're Dino. And he was, like, starstruck. And he says, my brother. My brother idolized you. I was like, oh, that's cool. That's cool. You know? Does he come visit? Maybe I can meet him? And he goes, well, no. I was washing his car with him. He had a lowrider. He had to go to the store real quick, and he never came back. He got murdered. Some Southsiders killed him. I was like, man, I'm sorry. He was. All he wanted to do is be like you. I don't know what to say. How does that register in your brain that somebody is no longer here because they wanted to be? What you described in music, like, that sucks. I. I don't know how to come to terms with that, you know, And I don't think I ever will. I don't think I ever should.
- [48:35]
Lynn Washington
David Rocha left prison in June of 20 2009. He became a pastor and started a church in Modesto. It's called the House of Rest, just five minutes away from Jessica's Taco Truck. And David is still making music ever since he got out under his own name. The beats are the same, but the lyrics, they're a little bit different.
- [48:57]
Eric Glass
Sir Dino died. Don't you get it man? I'll repeat baptized in the name of the God.
- [49:05]
Lynn Washington
Learn more about what David is up to@houseofrestschurch.com and get his memoir Lost in the Storm, now available as an audiobook. Thank you David for sharing your story with us. And thanks to Shannon Rocha as well Justin Burton and Julia Reynolds. One last shout out to Jessica's Taco Truck. Because if you're ever in downtown Modesto in need of deliciousness at unbelievable prices, look no further. Further than Jessica's Taco Truck. This is an unpaid plug. The story featured the music of David Rocha and an original score by Renzo Gorio. It was produced by John Facile. See it happened. That was just one Snap Judgment Magic Carpet Ride. If you need more more places, more people, more stories, more love, more, more joy. Subscribe to the amazing Stamp Judgment podcast. Stamp is brought to you by the team that all has individual projects. Kind of like the Wu Tang Clan, except for the uber producer Mr. Mark Ristich. He is not allowed to leave the building. Nancy Lopez, Pat Mesiti, Miller, Anna Sussman, Renzo Gorill, Shayna Shealy, Teo Da Cott, Flo Wylie, John Facil, Marissa Dodge, Regina Bediaco, Davey Kim, Faux Walsh, and David Exime. Well, this is not the news. No way is this news. In fact, a real life music executive could offer you money to produce an album with a fair equitable contract that gives you real ownership stake in the final product and profit sharing. Nah, don't be silly. That could never happen and you would still still not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is pr.
- [50:53]
Eric Glass
The.