Waterworld - Tooth & Claw

Summary

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Snap Judgment: "Waterworld - Tooth & Claw"

Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Glynn Washington
Featuring: Clifford Ray, Mary O’Herron, Saadia Khan, Ray Christian

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Overview

The "Waterworld - Tooth & Claw" episode of Snap Judgment delivers two deeply moving water-themed stories. The main story chronicles former NBA player Clifford Ray’s unlikely rescue of a dolphin named Dr. Spock at Marine World Africa, USA. The second segment follows storyteller Ray Christian as he recounts surviving Hurricane Helene's devastating floodwaters in North Carolina. Throughout both, Snap Judgment’s signature style blends evocative narration, music, and powerful first-person storytelling.

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Key Story 1: Clifford Ray and Dr. Spock – The Dolphin Rescue

Setting the Scene

• Clifford Ray, a 6'9" basketball player for the Golden State Warriors, was known for his extraordinary wingspan and love for aquatic animals, especially dolphins.
• Marine World Africa, USA, faced a critical emergency: their prized dolphin, Dr. Spock, swallowed a 3-inch metal bolt – a potentially fatal incident because dolphins can't be anesthetized for such surgery.

Main Events and Insights

Dolphin in Distress (07:54–10:10)

• Park executive Mary O’Herron discovered Dr. Spock on a gurney—he had ingested a bolt that could kill him.
• Conventional rescue attempts failed: "The longest arm we had was not very long." (Saadia Khan, 09:46)

Calling Clifford Ray (10:11–19:10)

• Clifford Ray’s exceptional reach was their last hope. He was contacted right before a Warriors’ flight and whisked in a limo straight from the airport.
• "I'm thinking that I hope I can help because they tried everything they could possibly do." (Clifford Ray, 18:37)
• The Warriors agreed to hold the plane for him.

The Procedure (21:10–35:42)

• Clifford arrived to find Dr. Spock prepped, attended by tense staff and watched by media.

• Dr. Spock was calm, as Clifford notes: "Dolphins are really brilliant animals... he knew something was wrong..." (Clifford Ray, 21:59)

• The chief vet instructed Clifford (via intercom) to reach down the dolphin’s esophagus, through two stomachs, to retrieve the bolt – all within three minutes to avoid asphyxiating the dolphin.

• Clifford describes the surreal intimacy:

  • "It made me think... what a baby feels like when she's in a mom's womb... It was warm and damp, but not like cold damp." (Clifford Ray, 31:29)

• Moments of humor and tension:

  • "They made a little laugh when they said KY jelly." (Clifford Ray, 26:16)
  • About the media: "I did think about one thing, what I needed to do to save this dolphin's life." (Clifford Ray, 27:21)

The Climax: Success!

• With mere seconds left, Clifford locates and carefully grasps the bolt:
  • "And that's when we heard Clifford say, 'I got it.'" (Saadia Khan, 34:50)
  • "Now I'm just thinking about turning it over and getting out as quick as I can, because I already was almost running out of time." (Clifford Ray, 35:03)

Aftermath and Recognition (36:38–41:35)

• Dr. Spock returned to the water, immediately fixating on Clifford in gratitude.
• Clifford is awarded the bronzed bolt on a plaque.
• Reflections on the dolphin’s recognition:
  • "He always responded to me. From that point on, he was always aware of me." (Clifford Ray, 41:15)
  • "I thought he recognized it in the way that this guy helped me." (Clifford Ray, 41:23)

Memorable Encounters & Legacy

• Clifford shares a plane ride with Elizabeth Taylor, who tells him:
  • "You probably the only person in the world there have been anything like this." (Clifford Ray, 39:17)
• The incident cements Clifford’s enduring sense of wonder and connection—a real-life Aquaman moment.

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Notable Quotes

• "My imagination made everything that was a body of water—I thought it was the ocean."
  — Clifford Ray, reflecting on his childhood fascination (12:25)

• "I was like the little kid who played a flipper, only I was an adult."
  — Clifford Ray on his excitement in the moment (25:57)

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Key Timestamps

• 07:54: Mary O’Herron spots the dolphin in distress
• 10:11: Clifford Ray’s childhood affinity for dolphins
• 17:42: The fateful day Clifford is called in for the rescue
• 21:10: Cliff’s arrival and assessment at Marine World
• 24:29: The perilous reach begins
• 34:50: Recovery of the bolt (“I got it.”)
• 36:47: Dr. Spock’s gratitude and recognition
• 39:17: Clifford’s interaction with Elizabeth Taylor
• 41:15: Reflection on the dolphin’s spiritual intelligence

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Key Story 2: Ray Christian – Surviving Hurricane Helene

Setting and Immediate Impact (43:38–46:00)

• Ray Christian describes his home in the Blue Ridge Mountains, suddenly surrounded by raging water after overnight rainfall.
• "The bridge leading to the house was gone, just all kind of rocks and stuff... The asphalt, the road was peeled up like it was paper." (Ray Christian, 44:23)
• With no warnings issued and communications down, Ray and his wife decided to evacuate.

Animal Dilemma and Community Grit (46:00–50:07)

• Ray is forced to release his beloved goats, chickens, and ducks to give them a shot at survival, especially his favorite goat, Brownie.

  • "Goats got funny eyes, rubbed her head. I gotta let y’all go. And it broke my heart to do that." (Ray Christian, 48:30)

• Survivors band together; the local store "Plan B" becomes an aid hub as shattered communities help each other.

The Aftermath and Reunion (50:07–55:59)

• After an exhausting trek and night at his daughter’s, Ray returns, fearing the worst.
• Upon arrival, he finds most animals safe but anxiously searches for Brownie.
  • "As I got closer, the two black and white goats just ran out, being closely followed by a whole flock of chickens and ducks and guinea birds. But now I'm wondering, you know, where is Brownie?" (Ray Christian, 53:00)
• Brownie appears, healthy, to Ray’s immense relief:
  • "She walked from behind the barn. And then she ran up, and it was unimaginable. I was unimaginably happy." (Ray Christian, 54:09)
• Despite massive loss, Ray finds gratitude in “just this moment.”

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Notable Quotes

• "Just sitting with Brownie and rubbing on her head, rubbing her mouth... I'm gonna give myself just this moment."
  — Ray Christian, 55:00

• “It was like Germans at the end of World War II walking through rubble. You know, we're all in it together.”
  — Ray Christian, 50:30

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Key Timestamps

• 43:38: Introduction to the flood and its suddenness
• 45:00: Destruction surrounding Ray’s home
• 48:30: Painful decision to set the animals free
• 53:00: Return to the farm, searching for missing animals
• 54:09: The heartwarming reunion with Brownie

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Memorable Moments

• Clifford Ray's incredulity: "I would have never dreamed I would do something like that in my lifetime. Really. I don't think anybody would think of that." (Clifford Ray, 38:10)
• Ray Christian’s emotional connection with his animals and the small triumph of survival amid disaster.

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Episode Tone, Language, and Style

• Language: Authentic, emotional first-person narration with a conversational and reflective tone, true to Snap Judgment's cinematic storytelling style.
• Tone: Inspirational, full of tension, wonder, and ultimately hope—human and animal resilience in the face of overwhelming odds.

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Concluding Thoughts

"Waterworld - Tooth & Claw" is a quintessential Snap Judgment episode, plunging listeners into worlds where ordinary people answer extraordinary calls. From Clifford Ray’s legendary wingspan saving a dolphin’s life, to Ray Christian’s gut-wrenching yet hopeful account of riding out a hurricane and rescuing cherished animals, this episode taps into the universal drama of water, survival, and connection—be it with wild creatures or our closest companions.

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Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

Snap Studios.

[Saadia Khan]

Hi, I'm Saadia Khan, founder of Immigrantly Media, host of the Immigrantly podcast, social.

[Clifford Ray]

Commentator, entrepreneur, and the person desperately trying.

[Saadia Khan]

To bring nuance back to immigrant identity.

[Clifford Ray]

Five years and I've talked to over 300 guests from Grammy winner Ruja Aftab.

[Narrator/Host]

And comedian hari Kanubalu to Dr. Laurie.

[Clifford Ray]

Santos and NYC Mayor Sahram Hamzani to basically, if they are interesting, curious, or.

[Narrator/Host]

Slightly chaotic, they've probably been on the show.

[Clifford Ray]

We dive into identity, belonging, culture, the messy, funny, complicated stuff that makes us human.

[Saadia Khan]

And yes, the Guardian, CNN and Human Storyboard have all shown us love.

[Clifford Ray]

New episodes drop every Tuesday, so grab your chai and your curiosity. This is Immigrantly, where we rewrite the immigrant narrative one story at a time.

[Ray Christian]

Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was simple. Glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate. And they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.

[Narrator/Host]

Snap Judgment is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. It's like the Holy Grail or the white whale, but only for farmers. See, I'm eight years old, living with my folks, my brother, on a failing farm in the thumb of Michigan. When Pops gets this wild idea, see, one harvest, even if it goes well, it leaves us broke. But two harvests, two harvests in a single year will be rolling in the dough. Just gotta know how to thread the needle. He tells me that you wanna plant early. Early, but not too early. Because if you plant too early in Michigan, anything can happen. A late snow, frost, hail. Baby beans hate cold. Baby beans hate everything. But if we time it just right, we're golden. Plant early, harvest early, then plant again. That's the trick. To harvest simple. My question if it's so easy, why doesn't everybody everybody just know what we know. What do we we know about hard work? Uh oh. My father doesn't believe in hiring farm hands like the other farmers do. Pop says hard work is what I have sons for. We have to be ready. Being ready means we have to break the soil early March. Breaking means chopping into breaking up soil when it's still bitter Michigan cold outside and the ground is still frozen. Not May like suckers who wait for the ground to soften up. Not us. No. So every day after getting off the school bus, Pops hands my brother and I a hoe. Marches us off to the field to start chopping the frozen soil. But this ain't dirt. This is concrete masquerading as dirt. It's iron. We chop, my brother and I, this dirt. Cement. Stroke after blistering stroke, doing hard time. My blisters have blisters. Just chop, chop, chop. The other farmers, the ones with tractors and plows, they drive by looking at us like we're crazy. Because we're crazy. Chop and chop, chop. Wondering who is gonna break first, the soil or me. Finally, we break the entire field. And that's just step one. Cause we gotta get to plantin'. Pressing beans into the ground, cover them with rocky soil. Each one a little prayer. Please don't freeze. Please Lord, make my father so rich we never have to do this again.

[Clifford Ray]

Please.

[Narrator/Host]

The cold sky waits patiently until inch by inch by broken inch, we plant the entire field. The impossible accomplished. And I feel that swell of pride. Job well done. Look up to see slate gray clouds boiling, crackling, laughing. Then the sky decides she's waited long enough and explodes. Like a burst dam. A river falls on us. Sheet after sheet of water. On our fields, on our beams, on our soils. And I don't know if I'm crying because I'm covered in wet. The next day, we survey the damage. A muddy, messy remnant of a field. Months of hard work washed away. Pops. Pops still has that gleam in his eye. Boys.

[Saadia Khan]

Boys.

[Narrator/Host]

We gon need more seed. From KQED's Snap Studios, Snap Judgment proudly presents Waterworld. Because everything is about to get wet. My name is Glenn Washington and. Go ahead. Go on ahead. Please enjoy your beans when you're listening to Snap Judgment. Now then, sometimes in live snappers, there's only one person who can get the job done. And our story begins right here in the Bay Area, the animal theme park, Marine World Africa, usa. Her park executive, Mary o', Haron, was on her way back to the office when something peculiar caught her eye. Step Judgment.

[Saadia Khan]

Well, there's many things that happen at a wild animal park, but this day was pretty particularly incredible. I was walking out from lunch to the back gate of the park and I witnessed one of our stake bed Trucks with marine mammal transport. It's like a gurney but made for marine mammals. And there was a dolphin. And I'm like, oh, no. What has happened on the truck was.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Marine world's most prized bottlenose show dolphin, Dr. Spock, all 12ft and over £1,000 of him on a gurney.

[Saadia Khan]

So I instantly went down to the vet clinic to see what had happened.

[Narrator/Reporter]

A three inch bolt had gotten loose in the dolphin tank and Dr. Spock went right for it, thinking it was some kind of treat.

[Saadia Khan]

And as he swam to the top of the surface, he swallowed this bolt.

[Narrator/Reporter]

As soon as the crew realized Dr. Spock swallowed the bolt, they knew they had a problem.

[Saadia Khan]

They had to find out where the bolt was. If an animal like a dolphin swallowed that bolt and it could potentially kill them. They have to consciously breathe the blowhole. And you can't anesthetize a dolphin. You can't do surgery on a dolphin like that. It would have been too risky.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The only other option was to get a vet tech to reach inside through Dr. Spock's mouth and try to grab it.

[Saadia Khan]

And the longest arm we had was not very long. I then went up to the president of the park's office and he was in there with the vet tech. And that's where I heard the vet tech say, we need a longer arm to reach this. Then the story began.

[Clifford Ray]

I was always taller than other kids. My mom would always take her hand and push it in my back and she'd say, I know you want to be like everybody else, but you're not like everybody else and you need to walk up straight. I want you to walk proud. You have a lot to be proud of. Walk proud. And so my mom was always pushing at me to be proud that I was tall. When I just wanted to fit in, I just wanted to be like all the other kids.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The one place young Clifford Ray didn't have to worry about fitting in was by the Union, South Carolina rivers and creeks, where he would spend hours by himself. It was there he found his first true passion. Fish.

[Clifford Ray]

I was always thinking about fish. I wasn't a hunter. I just liked fish. I just thought it was so many different colors fish. I would run around the whole dang on lake. I was seeing fish in the lake thinking, I wonder what's the biggest fish out there. I would always think there was a 30 pounder or 20 pounder or something. You know, I had comic books that were, you know, different heroes.

[Ray Christian]

Aquaman, swift and powerful, monarch of the oceans with ability to summon an.

[Clifford Ray]

And Aquaman Was one of my heroes because he could talk to all the fish. He could always get a herd of whales if he needed to fight for the betterment of the water. I was always fascinated by that. And I was always fascinated by, I hope they don't screw up the ocean. And then Flippa came.

[Narrator/Host]

It's Flipper, the fabulous dolphin.

[Clifford Ray]

And I remember going to the movies and I said, God, is the ocean really blue? I said, God, I like to swim with dolphins. Or I like to be that kid.

[Narrator/Host]

It's the story of a dolphin, an amazing one, and a boy who becomes his friend. And it's the story of their wonderful adventures together.

[Clifford Ray]

You just had all these things going through your mind that you wanted. You didn't know if it was just the movie or if it was truly the ocean was truly that big. Because I never seen the ocean. My imagination made everything that was a body of water. I thought it was the ocean. I never had a boat, but I would always think I was in a boat. And I would be out on the lake and I was thinking, oh, there's a dolphin. I was always thinking about dolphins. The dolphin's like a beautiful rainbow.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Dreaming of dolphins in the ocean were an escape from school. Where Clifford couldn't hide from being tall. He just always seemed to stand out, but not in a good way.

[Clifford Ray]

Used to have a dance, like on Fridays. They would always have, like a. Toward the last hour or less, class hour. They would have what they call a social hour. You always wanted to dance with somebody that you kind of had a little admiration for or whatever. And they would always look up to you like this and they go, you're too tall. You know, it was like a hot knife cutting through you, you know? Cause you were like, I'm not like everybody else. There was that insecurity because of how others view you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford kept growing past 6ft and eventually sprouted all the way to 6 foot 9.

[Clifford Ray]

I never saw the uniqueness of being tall until I went to college.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The University of Oklahoma offered Cliff a basketball scholarship. And now for the skinny, gangly, too tall kid.

[Clifford Ray]

Girls were eager to want to dance with you and all that. You know, things that didn't happen to me when I was in school and growing up in my hometown. When I got to college was probably the first time that I felt it was okay to be tall.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford became a star on the hardwood for Oklahoma. And in 1971, he was the third round pick of the Chicago Bulls.

[Ray Christian]

Look at Clifford. Ray, duck that ball. Hey now.

[Clifford Ray]

And I decided I was going to go play in the NBA. So I went to Chicago. I did great.

[Ray Christian]

Clifford Ray holds the ball high.

[Clifford Ray]

Oh, my.

[Ray Christian]

What a shot by Big Cliff. Oh, Clifford. Yeah, get up in the air.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But even while in the NBA, Clifford couldn't stop thinking about dolphins.

[Clifford Ray]

I always liked dolphins, so I was always trying to figure out where I could go see them.

[Narrator/Reporter]

On team road trips, he'd go out of his way to find local aquariums or aquatic parks.

[Clifford Ray]

I was always going to those parks. You know, the team, they would get tickets for us. So we always was able to go around the shows and see him do things, perform.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Then in 1975, Clifford got traded from the Bulls to the Golden State Warriors. So he started visiting Marine World, Africa, usa, where he knew he could find dolphins. And that's where he met Mary. So how did you and Clifford meet?

[Saadia Khan]

None of your business. Yes, Clifford's an animal lover. Players on the team would come and bring their families. She could walk in through any gate.

[Clifford Ray]

When she went to work for Marine World, I would go down there and visit. She said, oh, you need to come down. You love animals so much. So I came down. I got to be around the lions and the tigers. I always liked the tigers. I was a big fan of them.

[Ray Christian]

Marine World's open this weekend, so come on out. This cat works every Saturday and Sunday and then has five days a week off. Of course, he could have the whole week off if he wanted to.

[Clifford Ray]

They even named a tiger after me called Johan. Cause that was my nickname. Everybody knew me as Johan. So they had a baby tiger and I got to take him home a couple of times. And he was real cool.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford was a regular at Marine World. And of course, his absolute favorite attraction to visit was the dolphin show.

[Clifford Ray]

I love to go over there where they were swimming and they come up and you could, you know, rub their nose. And they had a ski show. I just liked him because they were so personable. They would entertain you.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford was not supposed to be in town that day in February of 1978 when Dr. Spock swallowed a 3 inch bull. The warriors were on the road, but Clifford wasn't with them.

[Clifford Ray]

I was grounded and I was at home rehab. I was, you know, going to physical therapy. I was getting treatment. And then they finally cleared me to join the team. And they were in Washington, D.C. that day.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He was waiting for a car headed to the airport at the very moment Dr. Spock was on the stretcher. When Mary heard the vet say they needed a longer arm.

[Saadia Khan]

I said, well, Clifford, Ray's in town. He was nursing a little injury and he happens to be home. We could reach him.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford had the NBA's longest measured wingspan at just over 8ft. Right before Clifford walked out of the door, his phone rang.

[Saadia Khan]

I did call him and say, hey, this is crazy, but we need your help.

[Clifford Ray]

I'm thinking that I hope I can help because they tried to do everything they could possibly do.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So the call with Mary was brief. All he knew was that an animal was in trouble. He did not know it was a 1000 pound dolphin.

[Clifford Ray]

I just knew that I was going to be having to do something. They wanted me to do something. I didn't know what.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Mary told him to park his car at the airport and a limo would be there to take him to Marine world. But meanwhile, Dr. Spock was strapped to a gurney and running out of time.

[Clifford Ray]

When I got there, there was a guy standing there and he had a suit on and everything. He said, I'm here to take you to Marine World. There's a problem there and your team knows about it. The guy didn't know pretty much what was going on. I didn't want to take his word for it, so I asked to use the phone.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford needed to make sure the warriors were okay with this. This was their 1975 championship. Starting center we're talking about.

[Clifford Ray]

The general manager said, you're supposed to go with these guys in the limo and they're going to get you back to the airport and they're going to get you to Washington. You won't be late for the game, which is the next day.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Turns out not only were the warriors cool with it, an entire plan full of people were going to wait to take off while he went to try to save a dolphin.

[Clifford Ray]

I knew what time I was supposed to be leaving and they said, don't worry, they won't leave you. I just figured that however long it was going to take me to do this, I was still going to have time to go directly to the plane. And so I got in the car.

[Narrator/Host]

Now, after the break, can Big Cliff come through in crunch time? Stay tuned. Welcome back to Snap Judgment, the Waterworld episode. When last we left, an entire plane was being held for Warriors Center Clifford Ray as he was whisked by off to Marine World to attempt to rescue a dolphin who had just swallowed a 3 inch long metal bolt. The clock is ticking. Step judgment.

[Narrator/Reporter]

20 minutes after being picked up at the airport, Clifford's limo pulled up to Marine World as all six foot nine of him emerged.

[Clifford Ray]

When I got there, that's when I realized what was going on because they took me right to the medical facility. And then I saw Dr. Spock. He was on the table.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Dr. Spock was 12ft long and secured to the gurney to keep him from moving around.

[Clifford Ray]

By that time, I'd seen dolphins not that close up, but I'd seen him close up. In captivity, there's different kind of sizes of dolphins, you know. But he was a big dolphin.

[Narrator/Reporter]

How did it compare to you?

[Clifford Ray]

I would have to say he was as long as me and way bigger.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Did he look distressed?

[Clifford Ray]

Oh, no, not at all. Dolphins are really brilliant animals. He knew something was wrong with him because they took him out of the tank and they put him on a gurney and they transported him over from the tank to the medical facility.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford was surrounded by two vets who. Who were aided by four technicians.

[Clifford Ray]

They was keeping him wet down because they couldn't get dehydrated. They had a wet blanket over him, and then they would put this cold water over him to keep his whole body wet.

[Saadia Khan]

We were anxious to get the animal back in his water. That's what we were really anxious to do.

[Clifford Ray]

So anyways, I came over and they said, I think we can make this happen.

[Narrator/Reporter]

One look at big Clifford Ray, and the vets on site thought he had just the length to help Dr. Spock.

[Clifford Ray]

The head doctor for all of the marine animals. His headquarters is down in Los Angeles. So they got him on the intercom, the chief guy who has experience with everything.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The doctor on the intercom explained to Clifford that he would need to stick his arm into Dr. Spock's throat and reach down into the stomach to try to retrieve the bolt.

[Saadia Khan]

The animal has two stomachs, one for storage and one for digestion.

[Clifford Ray]

My job is to go to the first stomach, go through the second stomach, find the boat, if it's not facing me, to turn it over and put the sharp point on the inside of my palm. So that's going to protect it. Once I got the boat, then all I had to do was just stand to the side, just slowly pull out.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But Clifford only had roughly three minutes to be inside before Dr. Spock would be at risk of suffocating.

[Clifford Ray]

If I didn't have that boat in my hand, then I would have had to come out within the next minute and then try it again. So he ran down all of that stuff to me over the intercom. I was thinking, they are nuts. I'm going, first of all, he's going to let me do that.

[Saadia Khan]

Dolphin's teeth are two rows of sharp Teeth. The mouth was open. They took two towels. They were damp. Two trainers were on either side of his mouth, covering the teeth with the towels. And they held the mouth open to make sure that it didn't. It's not gonna snap close.

[Clifford Ray]

Dolphin don't have the kind of teeth like a shark, so he can't come down on you because he was strapped in and he wasn't jumping around. Cause he knew something was wrong with him. So he was subdued.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford said that everyone from his team's management to the on site vets seemed to think this was a safe situation.

[Clifford Ray]

I think that they must have convinced them that it was totally going to be a safe thing and they had it under control or whatever. So I didn't ever think anything about it.

[Saadia Khan]

Those were the early days. Those were the old days when people did that kind of stuff. Nobody thought anything of it in those days. Sure, Clifford can come down. Clifford knows his body.

[Clifford Ray]

I'm always curious about things and I always like to learn things about animals. So this was like a great education for me about an animal that I actually had an affinity. I liked them. I love dolphins.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So no hesitations?

[Clifford Ray]

No, no. I thought I was like the little kid who played a flipper, only I was an adult. So of course I was, you know, ecstatic, excited about it.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Big Cliff knew his mission. And as the medical techs began prepping Clifford for the procedure.

[Clifford Ray]

Well, they trimmed my fingernails and then I had to take off. I had a long C shirt on. I took off everything. Then I put on scrubs. They took scissors and cut the shoulder part all the way around. So now they pulled that off and then they used a lubricant. They made a little laugh when they said KY jelly.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But before Clifford could jump into action and try to save Dr. Spock, the media entered the medical area.

[Clifford Ray]

They was all entering the room. They didn't let them in at first. Then once I was ready to do the procedure, now they allowed everybody to film. They right there like this. They're all on top. You know, everybody's trying to get their cup. The warriors are involved. So I'm a Warrior. So I'm representing my team as well as representing Marine World and, you know, sea animals.

[Narrator/Reporter]

A few onlookers couldn't faze Big Clifford Ray. This was a man who made a living playing in front of crowds.

[Clifford Ray]

I didn't even think about them people. I did think about one thing, what I needed to do to save this dolphin's life.

[Saadia Khan]

As the vet was saying, you know, we have three Minutes, guys. Let's get going. And sure enough, it began.

[Narrator/Reporter]

As the doctor spoke to Clifford over the intercom. Everybody was quiet.

[Clifford Ray]

He was just telling me what I was going to experience. The technicians were constantly patting him down with water, keeping him damp and moist. And so it was about 4 of those people that were directly working physically with the dolphin, making sure he wasn't jumping or he didn't jump off the table or whatever the deal was.

[Saadia Khan]

You could hear a pin drop in there. There wasn't anyone that was gonna speak out except the vet and Clifford.

[Narrator/Reporter]

With the doc on the intercom guiding his first move, Clifford inserted his hand into Dr. Spock's mouth.

[Clifford Ray]

Was very cautious going in. I didn't ever push, let it move to where he wasn't tense. You could tell he was relaxed because the journey down was smooth. It wasn't like constricted, but if it's relaxed, then you're fine. It's easy to move through the throat area because I don't have to worry about scratching them or nothing like that. They'd already trimmed my nails, but also had on rubber gloves, so that was a pretty easy entry. As I move down further past this throat area, now I'm moving down into the canal that goes into the first stomach. That's when I started kind of thinking, okay, I got 2.20 seconds. He couldn't bite down because Adam went down through his throat. Most animals, they react to stress. It had to be stressful to choke him out going down his throat. Right. I think he was smart enough to realize that he was being helped because he didn't flail, he didn't do anything. He just was very calm. So I was calm.

[Saadia Khan]

The animal was very relaxed, remarkably so. I would not have expected that.

[Narrator/Reporter]

As Clifford was elbows length into Dr. Spock, he moved past the larynx, the heart, and the lungs.

[Clifford Ray]

He just said, just push through. Don't feel like you're gonna disrupt. Cause you're protected with your gloves. And we trimmed your nails, so you're not gonna hurt anything. You're not gonna tear. Once he ran through what I'm to feel or expect, he would say, okay, you're gonna feel this. And he goes, okay, where are you? What do you feel? And I said, well, I'm in the stomach. I feel like I'm in the stomach area. He said, okay, now keep moving downward.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But Big Cliff wasn't feeling any metal bolt.

[Clifford Ray]

It wasn't lodged in his throat. It was already successfully passed through his stomach into the septum stomach to be Broken down.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So are you feeling around blindly? Kind of just hoping to get.

[Clifford Ray]

I'm not blind. I'm in a channel. It's like when you on a boat. If you stay within the green and the red, you probably never gonna get stuck. But if you get on the backside of that green or on the backside of that red, you liable to run aground somewhere. So that's pretty much how I viewed the whole concept. I was on the inside of the lining, you understand what I'm saying? So you're not on the outside where you can feel the intestinal, the stomach area. I was on the inside because I went down the passageway there.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Deep within Dr. Spock's stomach, Clifford wasn't entranced.

[Clifford Ray]

It made me think of all kinds of things. It made me think of what a baby feels like when she's in a mom's womb and all that. You know, the remarkable things about the inside of a woman's stomach or whatever. I thought about all kinds of stuff. It was warm and damp, but not like cold damp. I went out noodling for catfish, so this was not that big a deal to me.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Fish guts were nothing new to Big Cliff. But his arm was beginning to disappear inside Dr. Spock.

[Clifford Ray]

I was praying that I had enough limp. I knew I could get through the first stomach because it just seemed not that big of a deal. But an extra few feet, two or three feet, was I going to be able to get down far enough to get to that second stomach to retrieve the boat?

[Saadia Khan]

He was really brave to put his entire arm. He was all the way up this animal's stomach. I would have been scared doing it. And he just came in like he did this every day.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Soon, Clifford, Ray and Dr. Spock were chin to chin.

[Clifford Ray]

That was very intimate, close. That's more than just patting a dolphin or rubbing his head or his nose or throwing a ball to him, and he throws it back. Everything I'd done with them was playful. This was more of a serious scenario where the dolphin knew something was wrong because he wasn't in the water. So it was a little different scenario for both of us. He said, okay, now keep moving downward. Try to go all the way up to your neck, because that's gonna put you on the inside of the second stomach.

[Narrator/Reporter]

As Clifford approached the second stomach, he was also playing against the clock.

[Clifford Ray]

I was a minute out of time, two minutes and whatever seconds it was. I was down to the wire on that.

[Saadia Khan]

It was about 2 1/2 minutes in when the vet said, we've got about one Minute left. Come on, get ready here to get out. You gotta start removing your arm.

[Clifford Ray]

You know, he'd say, you had two minutes, you know, and don't panic. It's no big deal if you can't get it.

[Narrator/Reporter]

If you.

[Clifford Ray]

You can't get it and spin it around, then we'll just come out and we'll try it again.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford didn't want to try it again. He wanted to knock it out here.

[Clifford Ray]

And now, once I got through the second stomach, I just immediately started kneading around, and all of a sudden, I felt the boat itself. So now I moved it into my hand, and I said, okay, I gotta take the sharp point and put it here, this way. All I need to do is to try to turn it around. And so that's what I was able to do.

[Saadia Khan]

And that's when we heard Clifford say, I got it.

[Clifford Ray]

So once I did that, then I closed my thumb down. So now that sharp point no longer can be a factor of jagging or grabbing something and puncturing the lining. The lining of the dolphin's stomach is of such a thing that if it gets punctured, it affects the whole system, meaning breathing and everything. Water getting in, all that. Now I'm just thinking about turning it over and getting out as quick as I can, because I already was almost running out of time. Once I got the boat, then all I had to do was just stand to the side and just slowly pull out.

[Saadia Khan]

Everybody has to remain calm because he was pulling it out of the stomach.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Before the procedure, the vets had warned clifford about how Dr. Spock would likely react once his throat was cleared.

[Clifford Ray]

They said, just know that he's going to regurgitate when you come out of his throat. So I already had made my mind that whenever I retrieved it, got it out, I was going to stand to the side, and them guys that were nosy, they were going to get a dish full of regurgitated fish. All the guys that was like they got a whole spew. Everybody kind of laughed about it. It was pretty funny, actually.

[Saadia Khan]

It was as gooey as you can get. You know, it's a dolphin's stomach, so there's a lot of fish.

[Narrator/Host]

With the.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Bolt now out of him. Dr. Spock was returned back to the pool just as good as new. But his eyes were still on Big Cliff.

[Clifford Ray]

He was fine. Once we put him back in the water, he was great. He came up to me without their handlers telling him to come up. You know, he'd give him signals and all that. He just came Up. I walked around this side, and he followed me around slowly. I imagine he was pretty relieved. That was a foreign object in him pushing down through his area.

[Saadia Khan]

Who knows what would have had to happen if he hadn't got it. But we don't think like that. We're positive people. We knew we could do it. We knew we could do it. The fact that he was able to help us this way was just spectacular. That's where I realized just how brave he was to jump in a car, come down, help an animal that we needed help with. And he did it. That's all she wrote.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But Clifford still had a flight to catch and a plane full of people waiting for him to board.

[Clifford Ray]

I washed off and everything, and I got dressed and I got back in the limousine. I didn't ride in that many limousines, so it was kind of nice.

[Narrator/Reporter]

In the back of the limo on the way to the airport, Big Cliff couldn't believe what he just experienced.

[Clifford Ray]

I felt like I had accomplished something. And I felt like it was something that I never dreamed that I would actually. I would have never dreamed I would do something like that in my lifetime. Really. I don't think anybody would think of that. My dad would always tell us that when you go through life, you're gonna experienced some unusual things. So I just figured it was one of those things that my dad talked about.

[Narrator/Reporter]

When he arrived at sfo, the limo drove straight through security and dropped Big Cliff off right on the tarmac.

[Clifford Ray]

When I got on the plane and I was in first class, I sat down in my seat. I was actually relaxed. I was on the inside. And this lady said, well, you can sit on the outside, I'll sit on the inside. And I kind of looked at her and she said, so you're the one that's got us waiting? And I was like, yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clifford ended up telling the woman in the seat next to him the whole story of what happened earlier with Dr. Spock.

[Clifford Ray]

She said, that was awful nice thing you did. She goes, you probably the only person in the world there have been anything like this. And I was like, I never really thought about it like that. And the lady that was sitting next to me was Elizabeth Taylor. She had these mesmerizing eyes. They were like. I don't know how to describe her. Like Medusa. Her eyes were mesmerizing.

[Saadia Khan]

Elizabeth Taylor's eyes were the hypnotic beauty that pulls you in and doesn't let you go.

[Clifford Ray]

And she's a really nice lady. So it was an interesting trip.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Shortly after saving Dr. Spock Marine World awarded Clifford Ray with the actual bolt he pulled out of the dolphin's stomach and had it bronzed and put on a plaque that Clifford gave to his dad. And as for Dr. Spock and Dr.

[Clifford Ray]

Spock, I visit him all the time. I would go over there by myself. He always come up. He was always aware of me. He'd just come up and he'll walk up on the water like that, or he would come up and put his flipper out or, you know, just stuff that he would do if he was doing a show, maybe. But I was in there by myself, so it wasn't like I was giving him any commands. I didn't know if these were things that they trained them to do or this was just natural. And I felt like it was natural. That's when I realized that dolphins really were. They're pretty spiritual animals. I think. When I watched Flippa for the first time, I saw how that little boy interacted with the dolphin that he found. And, you know, I just felt like we had a connection. I didn't have to respond to him. He always responded to me. From that point on, he was always aware of me.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Was there much eye?

[Clifford Ray]

Oh, yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

What did you see in his eyes?

[Clifford Ray]

Just saw that he recognized me. And he. I thought he recognized it in the way that this guy helped me.

[Ray Christian]

The king of the sea Ever so kind and gentle is he Tricks he will do when children are near and how they laugh when he's near.

[Narrator/Host]

Big, big, Big, Big. Thanks to Clifford Ray and Mary O' Herron for sharing their story with the Snap. After a 10 year professional playing career in the NBA, Clifford spent the last three decades in the league as an assistant coach and consultant. And this year, Big Cliff and author Laney D. Weaver teamed up to bring Clifford and Dr. Spock's story to life in an illustrated children's book called Big Clifford, Ray Saves the Day. You can find the link to the book as well as all things social media for Big Cliff on our webpage, snapjudgment.org the original score for that story is by Dirk Schwarzoff. It was produced by Bo Walsh. After the break, we're on the ground with Hurricane Helene. Stay tuned. Welcome back to Snap Judgment. You're listening to our Waterworld episode. My name is Glenn Washington. And when Hurricane Helene raged through North Carolina, we watched in horror as waters rose up to destroy homes, towns, livelihoods, people. The first thing we did once the storm passed was to call our good friend and longtime SNAP storyteller Ray Christian to see how he and his family were doing.

[Clifford Ray]

Hello?

[Ray Christian]

Hey, Ray Tana. Hey, how you doing? Doing my best. Where are you right now? Western North Carolina, in the Blue Ridge Mountains, near the town of Boone, North Carolina. So tell me what happened from, from the beginning. I don't know where you were or what when you moved, where. We saw the news that a storm was coming, but we don't. These are not the kind of issues that came about, don't occur in the mountains. So we were at home. And I remember that it rained most of the day, but then it rained really hard during the night. Torrential. You couldn't, you couldn't step out on the port. It was like buckets of water, you know, it was that clearly different. The feel of it was different, heavy. And the creeks beside the house sounded like a freight train. Sun came up, it was like from a little creek. There was a river beside my house and river in front, river on the side, just rushing water bringing boulders with it. The bridge leading to the house was gone, just all kind of rocks and stuff. Yeah. Did you. Were you under evacuation warnings before then? No, I didn't hear anything like that. No, no, no, it was like instantaneous with no warnings. Most of the people didn't get any of that. And if you knew, you couldn't have told nobody because the cell phone towers were out, the radio station was down, was underwater. So we ain't get like no local broadcast, no nothing. We all dumbfounded, you know, know, looking at the road twisted and broken, the bridges gone, a couple people on the other side now. What's a river, you know, like trapped over there. A couple older people. The asphalt, the road was peeled up like it was paper. Like it just like nothing. It didn't even. Or broken all the bridges, you know, mud slides, little small mudslides. We didn't sleep or I didn't sleep for at least two days. I knew that we couldn't stay there. We got rivers on the side of your house where they shouldn't be. That my thinking is that's an avalanche about to happen. Rocks and boulders rolling, you know, a 25 pound rock hit you or you know, bust a hole right through your car and take it away. So at some point I said, man, we need to get the hell out of here. You know, the more I was looking at the road, I knew I couldn't come back. And I was looking at the animals and I. I was thinking, how am I gonna feed them? You know, I'm not gonna be able to get back here. I couldn't Bring. Bring them with me. And I didn't want to just leave them, but it's kind of well understood you want to give the animals a chance to do it on their own. If you can't take them, let them loose. You know, give them a chance, and the instinct will kick in, and they should try to be seeking higher ground. What animals did you have that you turned out? Goats, chickens, Ducks, probably. One of my favorite goats that I have now is Brownie. I've had her a couple of years. She had a baby. One of my favorite goats. Very friendly, very friendly man. Walk right up to you, kiss you, really lovable. So many of the goats are not. You can't. You can't touch them. They don't want to be touched or handled. But she did. I mean, supposed to show favorites, man. She survived a lot. We had a really hard winter, so I lost several goats. Brownie survived that. She survived the disease. She was pregnant. She kidded she had a baby and had a difficult time getting her to really nurse the babies. And usually what I had been advised to do by her friends in the valley who keep goats and sheep was that if they fail to want to nurse, then that's not a goat that's worth keeping. You get rid of them. But I didn't. When we were leaving the house, the wind was blowing hard and it was raining, so I made that decision. I took all the food that we had left, and I busted bags open. I poured it out there for them, and basically just opened it up to let them go, because I knew, I already knew, that they would probably seek higher ground on their own, and I couldn't do anything for them. But I just opened up the gate all the way. You know, goats got funny eyes, rubbed her head. I gotta let y' all go. And it broke my heart to do that. I looked at Brownie and told her, I'll see you the next time. You know what to do. Go. We gotta go. Me and my wife, we took a small backpack because it was already hard to walk on that terrain, and we started our walk out. So you're not just walking straight across, you know, a fence. You gotta maneuver around barbed wire and other debris, you know, that's in the mud. And what was your plan? Where did you think you were gonna go? Well, at that point, it was trying to get out of that, you know, and get close to town. As we were walking, trying to make our way out, you could see appliances, CPAP machine, furniture, and clothes everywhere. Clothes and the top of trees, blankets Doll babies, stuffed toys. Walking out was scary because there was no way of knowing what was around the next turn. What town were you trying to reach?

[Narrator/Host]

Boom.

[Ray Christian]

Couldn't get there because all the roads leading there were destroyed and impassable. You couldn't, you couldn't reach it. And a lot of the smaller towns are non existent now. What was happening at this point is other people are doing that same thing. You know, it's like this kind of. I don't know, you think about people in some. I think about footage I've seen of Germans at the end of World War II that are walking through rubble. You know, we're all in it together. I mean that, that's when you start having people, like people informally creating some kind of chain of water and food and stuff. The road is being worked on just by local people. Ain't no government. I'm talking about like country folks with tractors or a backhoe. It's like somebody got a truck, they'll fill it up with all the bottling water they can get and they'll get to another point in the road and somebody will take it from them. That little corner store out in the country has become another hub where people are dropping off anything they got. What's the name of that store? Plan B. That's the name of the store? Yeah, Plan B. Because before you, before you can go into town, this is your last chance to get something. Well, that's amazing. There were several points along that we're thinking maybe, maybe, maybe we need to get back to the house. But, you know, we were committed. A couple people were coming back saying definitely you can't go across here. Another point came when a guy in a four wheeler came by, you know, Matt, you know, coming through the rubble, whatnot, and hitched a ride with him. Like you guys climbed on the back four wheeler. Yeah. And he took us to the point at Plan B and my daughter picked us up from there. She lives in town actually, like up on a hill in Boom. When me and my wife got to my daughter's house, we were tired and exhausted. Both of us were just so sleepy. And my daughter was trying to make us comfortable as possible. And her children, my grandchildren, they wanted to play. And we were living. Talk about the storm much with them. But inside my head I was feeling stress. I really was feeling stressed about getting back to the animals. But every time the kids would see me in that mood, they would ask and I would change the subject, but I really wanted to leave. But we were so tired. It didn't take us long to pass out. So one of the first things I did the next. Next day when I got up early in the morning was try to make my way back so I could check on the animals. So then how did you get back home? Kind of the same process of getting a ride to a ride and slowly, slowly made my ass down through the valley. As I was walking up the road to the house to see what was left, I turned on the curve on the road, and I could see that the roof of the house above the tree line was still there. That was a good thing. I could see the fence where I kept the animals in. I didn't see any at all. I could see the front of the house. It was still there. All that looks good. But now I'm wondering about the animals. And initially, I don't see any. As I got closer, the two black and white ghosts just ran out, Being closely followed by a whole flock of chickens and ducks and guinea birds. But now I'm wondering, you know, where is Brownie? And at the same time, I'm thinking I should be thankful I got all these animals. I see a few chickens, Few animals are missing, but where's Brownie? I started thinking to myself that she probably didn't make it. I was fortunate that I have these nights. I continued to walk up the road and still didn't see Brownie. And all of a sudden, she walked from behind the barn. And then she ran up, and it was unimaginable. I was unimaginably happy. Then the others came out and they would, you know, making noises. They trot, you know, goats got a funny way walking. Did it look like she'd been through a hurricane or. No, no, no, no, no, no. Brownie was looking in good shape, but like she had got shampooed and went. Went to beauty shop or something. Eyelashes did look kind of extra good. I knew there were bigger things to think about. And I know the Appalachian's got a long way to go. I know there's a lot more work to be done, but right then and there, just sitting with Brownie and rubbing on her head, rubbing her mouth. I'm gonna give myself just this moment. Thanks for talking with us today, Ray. I know you're swamped, but we're thinking about you. And let us know if you need anything. Good stuff. Good stuff.

[Clifford Ray]

All right.

[Ray Christian]

I'm just here on this mountain right now. I ain't going nowhere.

[Clifford Ray]

Okay.

[Ray Christian]

Okay.

[Saadia Khan]

You got it.

[Clifford Ray]

Stay safe.

[Ray Christian]

Thanks.

[Clifford Ray]

Bye.

[Saadia Khan]

Bye.

[Ray Christian]

Okay, bye.

[Narrator/Host]

Thanks so much to Dr. Ray Christian. Even weeks out. It is hard to put into words the extent of the devastation in areas of North Carolina. Ray's busy trying to haul away all the damaged furniture from his home and help his neighbors as well. And if you want to help help the victims of Hurricane Helene in North Carolina, check out our website for some information that Ray has found. Snapjudgment.org the original score was by Derek Barber. This piece was produced by Anna Sussman. Yes, if you missed even a moment, know that a brand new package of wonder and delight drops on Snap Judgment's storytelling podcast each and every week for free. Let the people rejoice. Entry to Snap Studios can be solely accessed by a mysterious, magical door that moves around the KQED building of its own accord. There is no lock. There is no key. The doors swing open only if your heart is pure. SNAP is brought to you by the team that is able to come and go through this Snap Judgment door at will. Except for the Uber rooster, Mr. Mark Ristich, because the door only allows entry to the pure of heart. Now there's Nancy Lopez, Pat Lucini Miller, Anna Sussman, Renzo Goria, John Facil, Shayna Shealy, Teo Da Cott, Flo Wylie, Bo Walsh, Marissa Dodge, David Exame, and Regina Vidiago. And this is not the no way since news. In fact, even after devastation rained down from the sky, you could scramble to the top of the nearest mountain, get one bar on your phone and call your friends at SNAP to let them know you're alright. Thank you Raymond Christian sending you and your neighbors love and light. Do that and you would still still not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is PRX.