Annie DiRusso Loves an Echo Chamber

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Annie DiRusso Loves an Echo Chamber"

So True with Caleb Hearon is a weekly podcast hosted by Caleb Hearon, a beloved gay comedian, under the Headgum network. In the October 10, 2024 episode titled "Annie DiRusso Loves an Echo Chamber," Caleb is joined by guest Annie DiRusso, an indie rock star and comedy aficionado. The episode delves into their personal relationship, perspectives on aging, experiences touring together, handling public perception, and engaging with their audience through humorous and heartfelt discussions.

---

1. Personal Relationship and Views on Marriage

The episode opens with a playful and intimate conversation between Caleb and Annie, where they explore unconventional relationship dynamics humorously.

Caleb Heron [02:08]:
"Would you ever marry me at all?"

Annie DiRusso [02:13]:
"I would marry you so, so, so, so, so quickly. As soon as you're ready, I'm there."

Their banter continues as Caleb introduces the idea of polygamy in a lighthearted manner, reflecting their open-mindedness and comfort with each other.

Caleb Heron [03:30]:
"Polygamy could be so powerful if we would just allow it to be chill and, you know, because everyone tries to do polygamy in, like, a controlling, weirdo, freak way."

Annie DiRusso [04:05]:
"17 fives."
(Referring humorously to potential partners)

This section highlights their mutual respect and playful exploration of complex relationship topics, setting a tone of candidness and humor.

---

2. Reflections on Aging

Caleb and Annie delve into their feelings about aging, revealing vulnerabilities and aspirations. Annie, at 25, shares her evolving perspective on growing older, moving from fear to excitement about future milestones.

Annie DiRusso [05:31]:
"It feels like a big age, but I'm excited to be 27 one day."

Caleb Heron [06:07]:
"I really do think you're a true individual... So I find fear of aging kind of incongruent with what I think now."

Annie discusses her initial anxiety about aging, particularly in the creative industry, and how her experiences have reshaped her outlook.

Annie DiRusso [07:38]:
"I feel like a lot of women kind of hit a stride in their 30s and 40s that I'm really excited for, and also maybe my most wise."

Caleb complements her sentiments, expressing optimism about witnessing Annie’s artistic growth as she ages.

Caleb Heron [08:09]:
"Wait to see the record you make in your 40s. I am so excited for that."

This candid exchange offers listeners an authentic look into their personal growth and the natural apprehensions and excitement that come with aging.

---

3. Touring Together: A Blend of Music and Comedy

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Caleb and Annie’s unique experience touring together, merging music and comedy in a co-headlining tour. They reflect on the challenges and joys of blending their artistic disciplines.

Annie DiRusso [10:42]:
"We went on tour together. It was horrible. Yeah, it was like the worst three weeks of my life."

Caleb Heron [11:09]:
"Same. It was so much fun."

Their contrasting perspectives on the same tour experience reveal the complexities of balancing two different types of performances and personalities on the road.

Annie DiRusso [11:46]:
"It was actually beautiful. It was like some of the best times of my whole life."

Caleb Heron [12:05]:
"I have a lot of love in my life."

They discuss logistical challenges, such as traveling in a van versus flying, and the camaraderie that developed despite initial hardships.

Caleb Heron [15:03]:
"I was supposed to take an hour and a half flight. And then it ended up being a 14-hour van ride with all these people."

Annie shares how the tour deepened their friendship, while Caleb humorously recounts his reluctance about extended van travel.

Annie DiRusso [17:31]:
"We got really close. We had, like, known each other in a chill friend way before doing this."

Their joint narrative underscores the rewarding aspects of shared creative journeys, even amidst discomfort and challenges.

---

4. Handling Haters and Audience Interaction

Caleb and Annie address the topic of public perception and dealing with online negativity. They share personal anecdotes and strategies for maintaining positivity in the face of criticism.

Annie DiRusso [18:19]:
"If you hate me, that's okay. Yeah, don't tell me about it though."

Caleb Heron [18:24]:
"I would tell my haters, hide, hide. Because if me and my people ever find you, you will suffer."

Their humorous yet assertive responses reflect a balanced approach to handling negativity, emphasizing self-confidence and boundary-setting.

---

5. Fan Engagement: Voicemails and Community Building

The episode includes a segment where Caleb and Annie interact with fan messages, fostering a sense of community and shared experience.

Caleb Heron [46:45]:
"We're going to listen to a voicemail and then we're going to weigh in on it."

A fan from Australia queries about DJs, leading to a lighthearted discussion about the intricacies of DJing and personal experiences in music.

Annie DiRusso [47:37]:
"I didn't do a damn thing when we were DJing. I just kind of went, I saw that coming."

This segment highlights their willingness to engage with listeners, offering relatable insights and fostering a connection beyond their immediate conversation.

---

6. Personal Anecdotes and Humor

Throughout the episode, Caleb and Annie share amusing and heartfelt stories, adding depth and personality to their interaction.

Caleb Heron [60:30]:
"I love that you're a sushi chef. How beautiful is that?"

Annie DiRusso [62:39]:
"It's good to be hot in the summer."

These exchanges showcase their chemistry, blending humor with genuine emotion, and providing listeners with entertaining and relatable content.

---

7. Closing Thoughts: Embracing Fun and Living in the Moment

As the episode draws to a close, Caleb and Annie reflect on the importance of enjoying life and being present.

Annie DiRusso [53:43]:
"It's about being where you are... being present and feel what's happening."

Caleb Heron [63:20]:
"I want to encourage people to do fun things. There's enough voices of reason... My role in the world is going to be to encourage fun and recklessness."

Their concluding remarks emphasize a shared philosophy of embracing joy and spontaneity, encouraging listeners to live authentically and cherish the present moment.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Caleb Heron [03:30]:
  "Polygamy could be so powerful if we would just allow it to be chill and, you know, because everyone tries to do polygamy in, like, a controlling, weirdo, freak way."

• Annie DiRusso [05:31]:
  "It feels like a big age, but I'm excited to be 27 one day."

• Caleb Heron [08:09]:
  "Wait to see the record you make in your 40s. I am so excited for that."

• Annie DiRusso [53:43]:
  "It's about being where you are... being present and feel what's happening."

• Caleb Heron [63:20]:
  "I want to encourage people to do fun things. There's enough voices of reason... My role in the world is going to be to encourage fun and recklessness."

---

Conclusion

"Annie DiRusso Loves an Echo Chamber" offers an engaging blend of humor, personal reflection, and genuine camaraderie between Caleb Hearon and Annie DiRusso. Their candid discussions on relationships, aging, creative collaboration, and audience engagement provide listeners with both entertainment and meaningful insights. The episode underscores the value of authenticity, fun, and living in the moment, resonating with anyone navigating similar life experiences.

Transcript

[Caleb Heron]

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[Annie Durusso]

That's so profound.

[Caleb Heron]

I didn't want to be just. There wasn't like one person that I was like, oh, man, I wish I was that guy.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

It was like, no, I want every experience on earth. I can't believe that I only get to be this one guy.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And I get to do different versions of this guy.

[Annie Durusso]

You know, it's the fig tree.

[Caleb Heron]

Hmm. I wish you would say more.

[Annie Durusso]

I'm trying. I feel like everyone's been saying to me, this is so major. That's so major.

[Caleb Heron]

That's major.

[Annie Durusso]

Like, I hadn't really heard that much of that. And then this weekend, I was overwhelmed by it.

[Caleb Heron]

Should we do our inconsolable cover for the episode?

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Caleb Heron]

But I've seen baby lizards running in the river when they open their eyes, even though no one taught them how.

[Annie Durusso]

It's a little low for me.

[Caleb Heron]

I don't know why I'm taking it low. I don't like being down there. I don't sound good down there. I don't like being down there. Annie Durusso.

[Annie Durusso]

Caleb Heron.

[Caleb Heron]

What the hell? Annie Heron. Caleb Drusso. Well, Caleb and Annie Heron de Russo.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

The Heron de Russo family. Would you ever marry me at all?

[Annie Durusso]

I would marry you so, so, so, so, so quickly. As soon as you're ready, I'm there.

[Caleb Heron]

Stop.

[Annie Durusso]

I've said this many times.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, I would marry you.

[Annie Durusso]

I know that.

[Caleb Heron]

Okay.

[Annie Durusso]

And I'm ready for when we get married. We've talked about this a lot recently, actually.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Well, I've been asking you to have kids with me.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, well, actually, we have said that. Like, maybe we have kids together.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And then like.

[Caleb Heron]

We sleep with other people. Yeah. We'll sleep with other people.

[Annie Durusso]

We sleep with other people.

[Caleb Heron]

We have kids together, but we sleep with other people. Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

I mean, and then we raise these wonderful kids.

[Caleb Heron]

Our kids would be so beautiful, wonderful, lovely, warm, smart, talented. I'm just. I'm. You know, I'm just looking at the facts.

[Annie Durusso]

No, they would be kind of like out of this world.

[Caleb Heron]

Baby icons.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Icon babies.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. What I will say, though, is, and I don't want to, like, get negative this early in the episode.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Okay. Whoa, whoa. Okay.

[Annie Durusso]

I listened to a few episodes of this podcast, and I've heard you kind of throw the marriage thing out to a few other people. People.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, I have a lot of love in my life.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. But it feels like you probably just marry one of us, right?

[Caleb Heron]

Well, no, not necessarily. It depends on what state we live in and how the laws evolve. I think. You know, the thing about just the long arc of justice is that time bends towards it, so.

[Annie Durusso]

And you've always said that.

[Caleb Heron]

I've always said that, and I've always. And I've been the first one to say that. And I think, you know, if, you know, New York and Missouri got really cool about polygamy, I think it's something I would like to do the right way, because we haven't seen someone do it the right way.

[Annie Durusso]

And you would do it the right way?

[Caleb Heron]

Polygamy? Yes, yes, absolutely. Polygamy could be so powerful if we would just allow it to be chill and, you know, because everyone tries to do polygamy in, like, a controlling, weirdo, freak way.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Where it's just like, oh, one man with 17 fives, you know, 17, like, middling looking wives.

[Annie Durusso]

17 fives.

[Caleb Heron]

17, like women who are fives, you know.

[Annie Durusso]

17. Okay. So what's your. What are you thinking?

[Caleb Heron]

Well, I would do sevens. Me and 17 sevens. Sorry, sorry. That's stupid. It's early for me in the day. It's only for me, too. No, but why? Oh, you. Oh, you wanted. You didn't want to go negative, but you've noticed that I want to marry a lot of people. I have a lot of love in my life, and you do, too. You have a lot of love in your life.

[Annie Durusso]

I do, but I don't talk about marrying everyone well.

[Caleb Heron]

Right. You're a little younger than I am. How old are you?

[Annie Durusso]

25. Just turned 25.

[Caleb Heron]

Beautiful. Beautiful. You're almost a person.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, my frontal lobe is almost. Or maybe it is. It's done.

[Caleb Heron]

It's probably still cooking a little bit.

[Annie Durusso]

I think it cooks till the end of this year, I would say it.

[Caleb Heron]

Cooks till 26, and then I'd say 27, 28. You're due for a pretty major cris of some of the spirit likely. And then I think the. The perfect age to be is whatever age I am at any given year. So, like, right now, the perfect age you can be, like, the best age to be is 29, but then in, like, 100 days, the best age will be 30.

[Annie Durusso]

To me, like, you're gonna be perfect at 30.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, I've been waiting for my 30s since the day I was born.

[Annie Durusso]

I know. Like, you're already. To me, like, you're there.

[Caleb Heron]

Do you think. What do you. How do you feel about. How do you feel about aging?

[Annie Durusso]

Historically, I felt pretty bad about it. Historically, it's not like, my thing.

[Caleb Heron]

Why?

[Annie Durusso]

Even when I was a teenager, I was, like, a little freak. Like, I was, like, hated to age at all and always mourned my childhood.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Then when I turned 20, which I thought was gonna be devastating for me, I felt pretty much like, oh, yeah, I'm 20.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

25. I'm grappling with that. Feels like a big age, but I'm excited to be 27 one day.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Why is that?

[Annie Durusso]

Feels good.

[Caleb Heron]

Feels good.

[Annie Durusso]

The number feels good to me.

[Caleb Heron]

27 feels good to you?

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. 25 is a little scary.

[Caleb Heron]

Do you actually, in all sincerity, for your aging, because I'm. It just doesn't seem like you're such a cool, carefree. Like, you're a fucking. Like you're an indie rock star. You're a cool girl. You make. I just think. I do think you're. I really do think of you. I admire so many things about you. You're so talented, and I love your music, and you know that. But I do also think that you're a true individual. Like, you think you're an actual unique free spirit. I think you. I think you. I think you make music and write lyrics and play guitar and wear clothes and do things in your own way, actually. So I find it. I think I find fear of aging kind of incongruent with what I. What I think now.

[Annie Durusso]

I do feel like I should say I'm not scared to age, but are you?

[Caleb Heron]

But I'm asking genuinely, because if you do, I think it's interesting.

[Annie Durusso]

So I'm not really scared to age. I think something that's interesting with doing music is that it's hard to picture what aging looks like. I don't know if you have the same thing with, like, doing Comedy and acting and stuff. Like, it's hard to picture, like, what my 40s are going to look like and what I really want for that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Um, so I think in that way. And sometimes I fear it. Like, I fear the unknown. But I will say I have become a lot less scared of aging since I turned 20.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And I am really excited to be in my 30s and 40s. I do think this is, like, superficial, but I do think I'm gonna be my most beautiful in my 30s and 40s.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh. Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

I feel like a lot of women kind of hit a stride in their 30s and 40s that I'm really excited for, and also maybe my most wise. So I'm excited for aging in that sense, but I do get scared of it in terms of, like, what my life will look like.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I think I was scared of aging when I was younger. When I was, you know, like, in my. When I was a teenager, I was scared of getting older. Of course. I think that's pretty natural. But one thing about being an artist that has excited me about aging is I just can't wait to see my friend's art.

[Annie Durusso]

That's true.

[Caleb Heron]

Wait to see the record you make in your 40s. I am so excited for that. You know what I mean?

[Annie Durusso]

It's gonna be crazy.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, I can't wait.

[Annie Durusso]

I can't wait. I can't even imagine the record you make in your 40s.

[Caleb Heron]

Let's. Let's talk about the record I'm making in my 30s.

[Annie Durusso]

I would love to. I was pitching your 50s at first because I thought that was the.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, that hurt.

[Annie Durusso]

Youngest. No, I thought that was the youngest you would go for your debut record.

[Caleb Heron]

That really hurt. Annie. Annie, when we were hanging out the other day, was like, I can't wait until you're in your 50s and you start making music. And I was like, whoa.

[Annie Durusso]

I was pretty sure that was the plan.

[Caleb Heron]

I put me off so far. I could do it sooner, couldn't I?

[Annie Durusso]

I would kill for you to do it sooner.

[Caleb Heron]

We'll see. We'll see what happens. We did. We did talk about we.

[Annie Durusso]

Caleb's got some stuff in the tank.

[Caleb Heron]

We got some stuff in the tank. I told you.

[Annie Durusso]

Some lyrics I wrote, and they're pretty phenomenal.

[Caleb Heron]

What are you gonna do? Your hour. Your standup hour?

[Annie Durusso]

I don't know that I would do that. I don't think I could do an hour.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, it would take a long, long, long time to do an hour. But I will say one of some of my favorite live My favorite experiences of live art are when musicians joke around between their songs.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, well, yeah, that I'm like, I totally love to joke between. You've seen.

[Caleb Heron]

You're good at it.

[Annie Durusso]

Thank you.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, we went on tour together.

[Annie Durusso]

We went on tour together. I got a lot better at joking between my songs after watching Caleb do his set so many times. And the guest comedians. Yeah, but that's like one of my favorite parts of the show is, like making little quips between the songs.

[Caleb Heron]

What was your. What was your experience of us going on tour together?

[Annie Durusso]

It was horrible. Yeah, it was like.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Annie Durusso]

The worst. I would say the worst three weeks of my life. Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

What about you?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, no, it was. Yeah, it was really, really tough for me too.

[Annie Durusso]

God, you're good.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, I fucking hated it. No, it was great.

[Annie Durusso]

It was actually beautiful. It was like some of the best times of my whole life. Apart from the fact that we kind of really went deep on our friendship.

[Caleb Heron]

And you hated that.

[Annie Durusso]

No, no, no, I love that.

[Caleb Heron]

Okay.

[Annie Durusso]

We got really close. We had, like, known each other in like a chill friend way before doing this. I can't tell if I'm supposed to be looking in the camera.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, you can always look at the camera. Our fans love that. They love to see you.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

But you don't have to. You can mostly look at me.

[Annie Durusso]

Well, that's what I prefer. Okay. So we knew each other in a chill friend way and then we became like pretty close on the road.

[Caleb Heron]

It was good. It was really good.

[Annie Durusso]

It was really good.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, you have the coolest band in the world.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, they are kind of the sweetest.

[Caleb Heron]

They're lovely people. My favorite people.

[Annie Durusso]

And then the shows themselves were just like, so fun because it was changing so quickly. Like there'd be a drag queen, a comic, and another comic, and then we would play a set and it was just like so easy to tune in and so fun for us because we got to watch a different show every night. It was genuinely one of my favorite tours I've ever been on by far.

[Caleb Heron]

Same. It was so much fun. We basically were like, you came and did a show of mine in New York and then we were like, hey, we should do music and comedy touring together. No one really does that. I mean, people. It's not like irregular that like a musician will have a comedian open for them somewhere or a comedian will have a band on at the end or whatever. But I really haven't seen as like a dedicated, like multi city, like titled branded tour.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

That was co headlining between a Comedian and a musician, and I just thought that'd be really cool. And you did too. And we. So we did it. And I. I really. Yeah. Having on the drag queens in every city was so special and, like, amazing. I just had so much fucking fun on that tour.

[Annie Durusso]

Me too. It was just like a. Kind of like a party every night. I also think the co headline thing was awesome too, because it was, like, both of our fans there, and there's a pretty big crossover between them, which was awesome. Like, yeah, the demographic didn't change that much. You know what I'm saying?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

But it was like. Yeah. So beautiful.

[Caleb Heron]

I will say there was this moment when we were on tour that I was. I had told you I would come in the van for a little. I was like, I'll come in the van for, like, one or two cities.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes, that's true.

[Caleb Heron]

I was like, I'll go on the east coast between, like.

[Annie Durusso]

But what I'll say is, you started out by being like, yeah, I'll come in the van.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, God.

[Annie Durusso]

City to city. Oh, God, I'm so excited. Like, this is gonna hang. We're gonna do tour in a real way.

[Caleb Heron]

You are.

[Annie Durusso]

And as we got closer, Caleb started to be faced with the reality of touring as an indie musician is the dates. It started dwindling. It started dwindling fast. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll ride from New York to D.C. with y'all. And then it's like, so I've decided to take the train. And then he's like. And then it's like, all of a sudden, like, I booked my flights to Chicago, and it's like, oh, that's interesting. Remember when you're gonna really ride in the van with us?

[Caleb Heron]

So here's what I'll say about indie musicians. I didn't realize y'all live like prisoners.

[Annie Durusso]

No, it's a damn slog, Caleb, Y'all.

[Caleb Heron]

Are not doing well.

[Annie Durusso]

When we talked on the phone and Caleb, actually, I was, like, trying to explain what touring was like for an indie musician because it's so different from a comic. And Caleb was like, what? Like, you're spending all of this money. You're losing so much money, but you're still going.

[Caleb Heron]

It's like, yeah, well, y'all are talking about. You start talking to an indie musician, they start talking about, we don't make money off ticket sales. We hope to make it up on the merch. I said part. Pardon?

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, Caleb was actually. And then Caleb was, like, getting. He was like, is what. Like, what? Can we do? And I was like, simply nothing. Like, that's just like. It's just the way it goes really fucking crazy. And it's totally fine. I mean, I love touring. It's a crazy slog. And what I will say is, I almost think we showed you that because Caleb canceled his flight.

[Caleb Heron]

This is what I was gonna say.

[Annie Durusso]

To Chicago.

[Caleb Heron]

Yes.

[Annie Durusso]

And maybe a train or two.

[Caleb Heron]

Let me tell you something. I was supposed to. I was supposed to. This was crazy. We would. Did the show. We did the show in Philly. It was a great show. We went out afterwards to this weird little karaoke bar. Weird little karaoke bar. And had a very strange night.

[Annie Durusso]

Strange night in Philly.

[Caleb Heron]

We had a strange night, but we had a strange night in Philly. And then at the end of the night, we were having so much fun. And I was so taken by the spirit of camaraderie with my friends. I was supposed to fly from Philly to Chicago. What is that? An hour and a half flight? I was supposed to take, like, an hour and a half flight. The next day. I was supposed to sleep in at my gorgeous apartment that I had rented. And I said, taken by the spirit of camaraderie in the streets of Philly. I said, y'all, I'm canceling my flight. I'm coming in the van to Chicago.

[Annie Durusso]

Well, Caleb also does this thing where he doesn't want to, like, shake up the whole group. So he'll be like, we're all standing on the street together. He's like, hey, Annie, can I talk to you over here for a second? He takes me five feet away from the group, and then he's like, so don't tell the boys yet, but I'm.

[Caleb Heron]

Thinking of canceling my flight because I did what I wanted to know, basically. This was really considerate and cool of me. What?

[Annie Durusso]

The whole band standing over there.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, what I wanted to know was, is everyone. Has everyone settled into a rhythm in the van where they have comfortable amount of space? And then we put my big body in there, and people are gonna be uncomfortable and be like, why didn't he take the fucking flight? Now we're squished. That's what I wanted to know.

[Annie Durusso]

And you were like, everyone in my crew is so, like, medically obsessed with you that they would, like, they would sit on each other's laps, they would lay on the gear, anything to be in that van, and they didn't have.

[Caleb Heron]

To, which is what I want to know. But then, so, yeah, I go back to my place. I sleep like three hours. I had to Uber 45 minutes from my place to your guys hotel at like 7am Try 6 and then, and then try 6am and then get in the van. To do what? It ended up being 14 hours.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

To do a 14 hour van ride with all these people. And I gotta tell you, the first, the Uber from my place, I'm thinking, what did you do? Why did you cancel your beautiful first class flight to go and live like these musicians? And I thought, no, it's good to. It'll be like when, you know, like when Jane Goodall went and lived with the apes. I thought, oh, I'll learn from their culture and how they, how they feed one another.

[Annie Durusso]

That is what it felt like.

[Caleb Heron]

I was like, oh my gosh, this will be so much fun. I'll learn. I could write a book about it or something. And then I got in that van. I'll say three hours in, I was feeling like this is the most special thing I've ever done. I love these people. What a joy. And then six hours in, I said, get me a gun. I'm ready to end it all. I could not believe I did this. I said, I would have been in Chicago. I would have had two meals in Chicago by now, a shower, I probably would have gotten laid. I would have just had a beautiful day. But I was in the vampire.

[Annie Durusso]

We had such a beautiful day in.

[Caleb Heron]

Van and we ended it. And it was so fun because we got, we pulled into Chicago and we drove down Lakeshore Drive. It was raining.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

And we like rolled the windows down and just jammed every fun song we.

[Annie Durusso]

Could think of that related to Chicago.

[Caleb Heron]

Chicago. And then also we started just doing songs about friendship.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

Remember we did God, A Friend in Me.

[Annie Durusso]

I thought I was crying during this moment.

[Caleb Heron]

We were crying.

[Annie Durusso]

I was. We were all crying. It was raining. Yeah. Oh my God. That was one of the most beautiful days ever.

[Caleb Heron]

That is a moment. That is. You know, sometimes when a moment is happening, if you're lucky, you have the foresight to know that something beautiful is happening to you and you should lock in, lock in, hold onto it forever. That was one of those moments.

[Annie Durusso]

I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree. I can still picture it. Did we listen to Life is a Highway?

[Caleb Heron]

Yes.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. That was everything, dude. That was completely everything.

[Caleb Heron]

We were clocked in and we screamed. And when I'm back in Chicago, I feel it.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh my gosh, I'm really about to cry.

[Caleb Heron]

Walked in, clocked in.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. And after that it was over.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, yeah, the party was over.

[Annie Durusso]

No, I mean like it was. No, we had a great rest of tour actually. No, it was like it was over for anyone who doubted us.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, our haters have suffered continuous losses.

[Annie Durusso]

They got really quiet after that day.

[Caleb Heron]

My haters have been in a bomb shelter for the last several years. They have been under witness protection. My haters are not, they're not winning. They're not profiting.

[Annie Durusso]

No, they're not. We had some haters on that tour, but like very few.

[Caleb Heron]

Do you have any messages? Do you have anything to say to your haters generally?

[Annie Durusso]

No, I'm like, kind of like, if you hate me, that's okay. Yeah, don't tell me about it though.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, you don't.

[Annie Durusso]

If that makes sense. Like I don't think I'm in a place or really ever need to know about it, but just like stay away, you know.

[Caleb Heron]

That's beautiful.

[Annie Durusso]

What about you? What's your message to your haters?

[Caleb Heron]

I would tell my haters, hide, hide. Because if me and my people ever find you, you will suffer. No, I would tell my haters. You know what I would actually genuinely say to my haters? I want to know, were my haters standing in front of me and were I to address them in this moment?

[Annie Durusso]

I hate your haters.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, this is what I would say to them. Come on, man, please. Why? Why me? Do you know how many bad guys are out there? You could be hating. You could be hating on.

[Annie Durusso]

That's actually a really good point.

[Caleb Heron]

You could be hating on fucking Benjamin Netanyahu.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes. And you should be.

[Caleb Heron]

And you're hating this fucking guy. I'm silly.

[Annie Durusso]

I actually completely agree with you.

[Caleb Heron]

I bother nobody. I hang out with my fucking boys. You don't bother nobody, but I bother nobody.

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[Annie Durusso]

You bother. He doesn't bother anybody.

[Caleb Heron]

I chill out. I hang out with my friends. I make my little videos. You don't even have to watch those. That's the thing. When you see these videos on your feed, you could block me. Well, I guess, you know, so this.

[Annie Durusso]

Is what I'm going to say because the soap cutting. I'm going to start saying this. You can't actually escape.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, that's true. That sucks.

[Annie Durusso]

For even as a him being a dear friend of mine, I love to see his face so much that I think it's like I wonder if everyone's algorithm is like this.

[Caleb Heron]

Totally.

[Annie Durusso]

As I scroll, every video is a split screen of Caleb and like someone power washing a deck.

[Caleb Heron]

Right. Right.

[Annie Durusso]

So it's not even. You couldn't block it. Like you'd have to block like the Internet. You'd have to get off the Internet.

[Caleb Heron]

I actually just experienced in this moment such empathy from any haters. I did. Because that would suck. Because there are people I don't like on the Internet and I will say, I can't escape them. And that is helpless feeling. That sucks. I feel bad for them. But I will say, as a little boy, I always dreamed that I would be talking to my friends next to a video of someone playing with Goop.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, I mean, that's what you dream. That is the dream. That is the dream.

[Caleb Heron]

You said, I hope that someday I'm talking to my buddies and someone on a video next to me is like, you know, chasing a chicken around a yard somewhere in Malaysia.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, that's. That's kind of mostly what I see. That's beautiful.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, that's so beautiful.

[Annie Durusso]

The other day, someone sent me on Instagram one of my own videos and wrote, l.

[Caleb Heron]

And then five stands for love.

[Annie Durusso]

And then five minutes later said, I'm so high. Like they obviously meant to send it to someone else, but they'd sent it to me.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And I sat there for a second. I was like jarring, this can't be happening.

[Caleb Heron]

Jarring.

[Annie Durusso]

Then they said, I'm so high. Love you so much.

[Caleb Heron]

Whoa. I said, I told you.

[Annie Durusso]

Starting to think there's not a lot of love between us.

[Caleb Heron]

Stands for love.

[Annie Durusso]

I wanted to respond, and then I.

[Caleb Heron]

Thought, no, you certainly can't respond to that.

[Annie Durusso]

I know, but I thought it'd be funny to respond to it. Like, I think it's kind of funny. It did hurt my feelings for a second. It brought me down like a punch in the gut for a second. But then I was like, this is ultimately funny, and they must be, like, freaking out. But also, I think they probably think I haven't seen it.

[Caleb Heron]

They imagine that you're not seeing it. Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. And let's just say I see a lot of it. So that was a. That took me down a few notches.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Well, that's beautiful that you saw it, I think, because now you. Now you know that they love you. Elle, hold this L real quickly. Just really quick. Hold this L for me. So how much. Can we talk about any new music that you have coming out soon? Do you have new music coming out soon?

[Annie Durusso]

I have so much new music coming out soon, and we can talk about it a lot, and I'll be vague and then specific, so.

[Caleb Heron]

Okay. And what's the vague part of it?

[Annie Durusso]

That there. It's more music than I've ever released. You can imagine what that might be.

[Caleb Heron]

Whoa. That's crazy.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

You did a lot of your new songs on our tour.

[Annie Durusso]

I did many, many of the new songs on our tour.

[Caleb Heron]

What's your favorite song that you've put out recently?

[Annie Durusso]

Well, I've kind of only put out one of the new songs, Legs, so I'd have to say that, but. Or maybe Wet is coming out before this episode. So then Wet is coming out.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I guess I'm just so locked in on Annie that I know it's all out.

[Annie Durusso]

And you, like, really know all. Well, you actually know all of the songs, so there's a lot of songs that I'm really excited about that I've been playing live. But, yeah, this is, like, my favorite music I've ever done, which I know everybody says, but I'm really excited.

[Caleb Heron]

I will say some people don't. Some people get into, you know, second, third EP album, and they're not saying that it's their favorite. They're going, this stuff is really good. I'm excited about it. But I really believe you. I think there's an energy around the music you're making right now that feels like you're in the pocket.

[Annie Durusso]

I do feel like I kind of got to a place that I'm really happy with, with the music, and it wasn't really that hard to make, which is I think what makes me feel like it's so right. Music has in the past been pretty hard for me to make sometimes. Like, writing, especially while being on tour for so long. I was on tour for a really long time. Like, two years on and off was really tough, and it was like pulling teeth. But I feel like these songs, like, kind of were much easier for me to write. The production process was really easy. I. It was all, like, felt so natural. And I think it leaves me to still love the songs, which is nice.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. What do you. Okay. So, I mean, you're from New York. You're from New York City, New York.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. I was born in. Just north.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Thanks for saying that. Just north. I like that a lot of people go upstate, but it's not upstate.

[Caleb Heron]

It's not upstate, no. But you're from New York.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And you grow up here and it's you, your mom, your dad, your brother.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

You're scooping ice cream at an ice cream shop.

[Annie Durusso]

The Blue Pig.

[Caleb Heron]

The Blue Pig. And you start making music when you're 11? 12?

[Annie Durusso]

Well, yeah, basically. I took guitar lessons when I was like, seven or something like that. I didn't practice, whatever, but I always love to sing. As you do.

[Caleb Heron]

What? As one does.

[Annie Durusso]

And then when I was 10 or 11, I watched this, like, I got really into Taylor Swift, and I watched this, like, bootleg Taylor Swift documentary, and she was like, if you want to sing, you have to write songs. And I was like, all right, I gotta write some songs. So I kind of taught myself guitar and then started writing some songs when I was, like, 11. But before that, I was mostly doing, like. Because I'm in New York and my dad is like, you know, he's 70 something. Like, I was doing, like, musical theater singing.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Annie Durusso]

Or, like, old ballads. Like, I was doing, like, Frank Sinatra type stuff.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And then once I got that acoustic guitar and the ukulele. Yeah. Unfortunately, the ukulele as well. There is no going.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, there was an arrow. There was an arrow for the ukulele. That's nice. Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes. And I hit it hard.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. What hit you?

[Annie Durusso]

It hit me.

[Caleb Heron]

You don't hit the ukulele era. The ukulele era hits you.

[Annie Durusso]

No, it hit me hard. I was doing Somewhere over the Rainbow.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Annie Durusso]

I was doing a lot of Jason Mraz.

[Caleb Heron]

Right. Lucky.

[Annie Durusso]

I'm in love with my best friend, Jason Mraz.

[Caleb Heron]

Yes. Jason Mraz and Colby Colette.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, yeah. Okay. I was more on the. Yours.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, Scooter, I love when he Goes on that little part.

[Annie Durusso]

Me too. Me too. Everything about it is so real, that song.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. There was a real era there where it was like. It was. We were just past sublime, but we hadn't quite reached, like, irony, I don't think, like that. That just that it just earnest. It just. It was in that pocket of earnestness where earnestness was still able to be mainstream in a cool way. Now I feel like we're a little away from that, but that I'm yours felt like a real era.

[Annie Durusso]

No, we're totally away from the earnest being.

[Caleb Heron]

Cool.

[Annie Durusso]

I think we should go back to.

[Caleb Heron]

It because it's coming back.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

It's coming back. I've been working. Yeah, I've been working on that.

[Annie Durusso]

No, no, I've actually been working on that for years.

[Caleb Heron]

No, earnestness is coming back. Yeah, no, yeah, earnestness is coming back. I've been working on that.

[Annie Durusso]

I think I'm ready for it to be back.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, yeah. So don't worry about it. It's coming back.

[Annie Durusso]

Hate is over.

[Caleb Heron]

Earnest hate is. Yeah, hate is over. I mean, hate can be so powerful. We can reserve hate for the people who deserve it, I think.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay, sure.

[Caleb Heron]

But I don't think much of them. I do believe that love is back. I think that earnestness is here. I think that loving your friends is front and form. I think it's corniness. Well, you know what?

[Annie Durusso]

What?

[Caleb Heron]

I was. I was let down by the human race yesterday. I lost my faith in humanity briefly yesterday.

[Annie Durusso]

Why?

[Caleb Heron]

I posted on my Instagram story, chance already knows where this is going. I posted on my Instagram story yesterday and I said, hey, y'all, if you're coming to my Bell house show tonight, it's nice. Little sold out show.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, I thought this was so cute.

[Caleb Heron]

And I said, hey, y'all, if you're coming to the show, here's a cute idea. Everybody make a new friend in line or meet somebody new at the venue. And I'm gonna pick a pair of new friends and give you some money for your next hangout. You know, give away some cash.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, I loved that I even responded, said, this is so cute.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, I thought it was really sweet, you know, And I loved that. I love to build community and I like when people. Because my real dream is like, yes, of course I want to bring people together. But I also have a real dream that like 20 years from now people will say that they met at my show and be like, oh, this is my best friend. We met at Caleb show in Brooklyn.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, that's Beautiful.

[Caleb Heron]

Or even a relationship would be cool that I get to be part of someone.

[Annie Durusso]

That would be very cool.

[Caleb Heron]

Love story, huh?

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And so I thought that'd be really cute. So I get. And I'm thinking, I'm. I'm buzzing all day because the reason I posted is because I was feeling a little anxious about the show. Go ahead and. Are you gonna die from the matcha right now?

[Annie Durusso]

Sorry.

[Caleb Heron]

And go walk back in. And then so I'm buzzing all day thinking, man, I'm. There's gonna be so many friendships made at the show tonight. That's what's getting me excited. I get to the show, I get on stage, I go, who made a new friend? Maybe 20 people cheer. 400 people in the room. Maybe 20 people cheer.

[Annie Durusso]

And were they being real or were they kind of just.

[Caleb Heron]

No, they were being real. I did believe them. It was all lesbians. And I. And so you can trust. I trust lesbians more that. In more than any other group, I trust lesbians.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

To get the job done. To be truthful.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes. Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, they're an industrious folk.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And. Yeah. Very trustworthy of the lesbians. And so I asked and I said. I said. I said, you know what? This really. This really broke me. This really broke me all. I wanted everyone to make friends tonight. And I got on my Instagram story, and I was corny in public.

[Annie Durusso]

You're vulnerable.

[Caleb Heron]

I was vulnerable in cornball. And I was earnest, and I earnestly said that I wanted people to make friends at my show. And y'all treated me. Y'all treated me like dirt. Y'all treated me like scum. You didn't make friends. And then I think there were more people who made friends that didn't just want to cheer. That's how I told myself that it went.

[Annie Durusso]

Really. I would almost go the other way and say that more people cheered than made friends.

[Caleb Heron]

Right. Okay.

[Annie Durusso]

So I just think, thinking about audiences at shows, like, people want to.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

People want to put their hand up, you know?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. They want to throw their hand. And I did. I was offering cash prizes. Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

So I'm starting. I'm starting to think it's. Yeah. Going the other way.

[Caleb Heron]

I do feel that, you know, the first people I gave money to was a group of four lesbians, and they had all met, made friends. They came in pairs of two. And I looked at two of those lesbians.

[Annie Durusso]

Were they two couples?

[Caleb Heron]

Exactly. So I'm looking at two of those lesbians. And I said. I said, first of all, I said, two Lesbian couples. And they said, no. And I said, ah, you guys tried it and it didn't work out. They both shook their heads. Yes. I ran screaming across the stage. I said, I'm too powerful for my own good.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, no, you are.

[Caleb Heron]

This is incredible. And then I said, I said, what? So what happened and how long did it last? And one of them goes, about six months. And the other one goes, it was three. And I go, oh, so it felt long to you. That's interesting. We learned a lot about them. Other two. Both queer, probably. I'll say of the four of them, there's at least a day in there, you know, there's a slash, There's a slash. They. On one of those. She's.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And we might be even in full they. Them territory.

[Annie Durusso]

Sure.

[Caleb Heron]

And I'll say, just given my audience, one of them is on the path to taking tea. You know, one of them is heading towards their testosterone factory is coming up this week.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

So I'll say those queers. Of the four of them, those two tried it and it didn't work out. So they're just friends now, which is beautiful.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

And then the other two said they hadn't tried it.

[Annie Durusso]

Did they? Did the two that tried it and didn't work out and seem settled that it didn't work out.

[Caleb Heron]

They seemed really comfortable in their dynamic.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay, that's great. And the other two are about to try it, you think?

[Caleb Heron]

No, the other two, one of them said they were taken, but they didn't say it in a way that made me feel like they were entirely pleased about it. And then the other one, it seemed like they might have been into it.

[Annie Durusso]

Wow.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And I don't know which one of the four of them is going to have top surgery the soonest, but of the four of them, I'd say at least probably two over the long arc of life will end up having top surgery. And they'll support each other through that, I think.

[Annie Durusso]

I hope the four of you made lifelong friends.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, yeah. I think that they'll hang out. I really do. I think, I hope that at least maybe they just split the cash at the end of the night and are going to go their separate ways. But I do hope that they will. I do hope that they will hang out.

[Annie Durusso]

How much cash did you give them?

[Caleb Heron]

I gave those four lesbians $100 and then I gave three non binary people from Connecticut in the back $102 because that's what was left in my wallet.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, my God, that's wonderful.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, I gave away some money.

[Annie Durusso]

Did they say what they were gonna do?

[Caleb Heron]

Well, no. And I should have asked, but it really. I did want to move on, you.

[Annie Durusso]

Know, good faith thing.

[Caleb Heron]

It is a good faith thing. I didn't want to pressure them, but I did ask both of them before I gave them money. I said, do you think you'll hang out again after this? And they said yes.

[Annie Durusso]

Wow. I wish we knew.

[Caleb Heron]

I know. I would love if y'all. If any of you. I'm sure, at least. At least one of these young queer people listens to this podcast. If you guys ever met up with your people, please let us know in the comments. We would love to. We would love to know about it. And let us know about your journey with tea as well, please, because it's. It's upcoming for at least one of you. I can feel it. Yeah. You ever done tea?

[Annie Durusso]

No, I haven't.

[Caleb Heron]

Me neither. I do wonder what it would be like.

[Annie Durusso]

I do, too. Yeah, I think it can. I'm like, yeah, I just wonder what everything is. I wonder what it would be like. Same with estrogen. I also wonder.

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, gosh, me too. I want to know what everything is like. You know, I was writing the other day. I was journaling, thinking about my 20s and because I'm about to turn 30, thinking about my 20s and think about life and, you know, I wrote a big source of my depression when I was younger, my teens and my early 20s was not that I wanted to be somebody else, but that I wanted to be everybody else.

[Annie Durusso]

That's so profound.

[Caleb Heron]

I didn't want to be just. There wasn't, like, one person that I was like, oh, man, I wish I was that guy.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

It was like, no, I want every experience. Experience on Earth. I can't believe that I only get to be this one guy.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

And I get to do different versions of this guy.

[Annie Durusso]

You know, it's the fig tree.

[Caleb Heron]

I wish you would say more.

[Annie Durusso]

I'm trying. It's very fig tree of you. So that's giving fig tree, unfortunately, like, I'm trying to remember. It's definitely like a. An author or poet.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. We'll just keep calling chances.

[Annie Durusso]

It's gonna be. People are gonna be upset that I don't know. But basically, it's like, someone was so hungry. I'm like, not explaining this to. Someone was so hungry, and they're at a fig tree, and they couldn't decide which fig to take.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And then by the time they decided, like, maybe they were all rotten or something.

[Caleb Heron]

And Then they oh, this happens to be on doordash like once a week.

[Annie Durusso]

Like everything closes by the time you're near this.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, I do the fig tree thing once. Oh yeah. Chance, did you find the fig tree situation? It is like a paragraph long quote, right?

[Annie Durusso]

Who is it? Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And what happens at the end? Does the, the figs rot or what happens now?

[Caleb Heron]

Also Sylvia Plath did shelf with an oven or was that something I made up in my head?

[Annie Durusso]

I think that might be true.

[Caleb Heron]

Did she put her head in an oven until she died? Yes, she did. Okay, good to know. But what she have to say before she did that? The quote, I wanted each and every one of them, but choosing one meant losing all the rest. And as, as I sat there unable to decide, the figs began to wrinkle and go black.

[Annie Durusso]

And one they plopped to the ground at my feet.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Annie Durusso]

I was right. Yeah. And that's how it is. Yeah. So maybe you should read that whole thing.

[Caleb Heron]

That's so real. I really do. I get, I, I used to, you know, I used to get so spun out like when I turned 23, I remember specifically having a really big cry about the fact that I would Never be a 22 year old tattoo artist.

[Annie Durusso]

You know, why couldn't you be a 25 year old tattoo artist?

[Caleb Heron]

I could, but that's the thing is I would never be a 22 year old tattoo artist. I already, I already did 22 and I wasted it not being a tattoo artist now, mind you.

[Annie Durusso]

Wait, so you, you have some problems about aging?

[Caleb Heron]

No, it's just that. No, it's not. It really is. I. Cause for a while I think at the time it was. But now I still having made peace with aging, I still have this because back then it was based on age, I think. Yes. But now it's this core problem that has morphed, mutated into something else, which is that I do still feel I want to know as much about the human experience as I can. And the best way to do it would be able to have all of them myself. But since I can't, I just have to rely on being interested in other people. Which is lovely as well.

[Annie Durusso]

It is lovely. I'm kind of with you especially choosing to do music. It's like, damn, there's so many other cool things out there. I love music.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

But I like, there's always those people. I have a few friends that have just kind of done like the hop around thing in their 20s, which I think is so sick. Like they'll work at, like, restaurant, then they'll work at, like, a candle place, you know, and, like, do all of these different jobs and have so many different experiences and meet so many different people, which in music, you do meet so many different people and have experiences. But I do always. I'm the same way. I'm always like, morning lives I didn't live.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Or can't or won't get to.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. When I get excited about them, I'm like, man, that would have been a fun one. But I'm just. I'm just this guy, which I like this. You know, this guy.

[Annie Durusso]

No, it's a. It's a great guy. That's a great guy.

[Caleb Heron]

He's cool. Yeah. I've really made peace with him. I like him. I'm happy to do him until, you know, I get moved on to the next thing. But would have been fun to do other guys.

[Annie Durusso]

What would be your. What would be your top thing you would have done?

[Caleb Heron]

Oh, other guy. Other guy tattoo. No, because I can't draw and I don't like blood and I hate having appointments.

[Annie Durusso]

No, sure. No, sure.

[Caleb Heron]

So that's all. Yeah. Those are all columns in the no tattoo artist category. But I would like to be a part of someone's journey of putting. Making them like their body and looking good on their body. I'd like to be a part of someone's tapestry in that way. You know what? The thing that comes most to mind, I really think where two roads diverged and I took one is I got a. I was playing football in high school and I got a knee injury. And when that knee injury was healing, I had to decide if I was going to, like, go back to playing football or go do something else.

[Annie Durusso]

God, I love this.

[Caleb Heron]

And I went and, like, started doing student council stuff. And I think had I, like, freely gone and tried football, I might have, like, played in college or something. I don't wish I did. But I genuinely like my life much more than. It's better over here.

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[Caleb Heron]

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[Caleb Heron]

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[Annie Durusso]

Be like if you stayed on the football track and not gone student council.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, I think, yeah, I'm like, would I ever have come out? Would I have like, continued to. Because that was when I was 15, so I was still burying a lot of parts of myself, you know, I wasn't. I was nowhere. You know, I wasn't as fun as I could have been.

[Annie Durusso]

I would have loved to have known you then.

[Caleb Heron]

I was still cool.

[Annie Durusso]

I know that. I know that you were still cool. Also, what I'll say is because I also dipped my toes in student council a bit. If we were on student council together. No, we would have been enemies, I think.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. It wouldn't have gone well.

[Annie Durusso]

Were you president?

[Caleb Heron]

No.

[Annie Durusso]

And that's really strange. That's really strange.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. There was always something about me that people could tell. Like, I will say, even. Like, I. I will say I definitely didn't get scholarships, leaving high school because I was liberal. Like, I was.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, okay. Yeah, you went to school.

[Caleb Heron]

And there was also something about me that I think people just felt was devious.

[Annie Durusso]

That's true.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, I was never one of the golden. I was never. I was always involved, but I was never like. I don't want to say names because some of them are still dear friends of mine, and some of them aren't, which is, you know, even more of a reason not to say their name. But there were definitely. I was just never one of those kids that all the adults were like, that's a good egg, really. I think I was seen as.

[Annie Durusso]

That's actually hard for me to imagine.

[Caleb Heron]

I think some adults felt that way, but I definitely think I just wasn't. I wasn't from, like, a good family with a name. You know, I wasn't from one of those families which, in my town, they run deep.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

The families with names have been there forever. You know, I wasn't. My mom was a single mom. We were kind of like, I'm not. Like, you know, we just weren't. I think I was. I was also liberal. I was outspoken. I got in trouble in high school a lot for talking about politics. I remember very specifically, I tweeted about gun control and how much we needed it. And I was a officer in this family values student organization. And I very specifically remember one of the staff, me getting in trouble, getting, like, called into a meeting and then being like, this organization doesn't have a stance on gun control. And I was like, well, I do.

[Annie Durusso]

This is when you were in high school?

[Caleb Heron]

This when I was 16. And they were. Twitter. Yeah, 2000. Because Twitter came out in 2000. I started in 2009 or 10. I started pretty early. I started Twitter, but I was a freshman in high school in 2009 or 10. So this would have been when I was 16. Was it seven or six? Yeah. I was gonna say it had been around for a minute because Ashton Kutcher was doing interviews about it and, like, 2008. But, you know, he was big on Twitter. He was, like, one of the originators.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, wow.

[Caleb Heron]

But I remember I got. They were like, we don't have a stance on gun control. And I was like, well, I do, and kids are getting shot at school, and I'm fucking terrified. So what now? And it was just like, I couldn't believe that I was getting in trouble for this. Yeah. That's why I lived in such a conservative world, you know?

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. I mean, that. I mean, mine was pretty much the opposite. I lived in a liberal bubble.

[Caleb Heron]

I know. Because you really grew up around Democrats.

[Annie Durusso]

I grew up around the most, like, establishment Democrat type people you could ever imagine.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Annie Durusso]

And it was just all about politics, was all liberal policies. When I moved to go to school in Tennessee for college at Belmont, it was insane culture shock to me.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

I, like, didn't even really realize that young people with such different views than me, like, we're kicking around, you know, and.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, you. You thought. You've expressed this to me before. You really thought that conservatism was something that legitimately only old people did and it was going to die out.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

No young people.

[Annie Durusso]

I actually thought conservatism and, like, Christianity.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Like, I was pretty sure I growing up. I grew up, like, you know, 40 minutes north of the city here. I was pretty sure, like, oh, yeah, probably, like, religion, specifically Christianity, I thought was maybe gonna die out with our generation.

[Caleb Heron]

Right.

[Annie Durusso]

Because the only, like, devout friends that I had were, like, Jewish people. So it wasn't really a thing. I grew up Catholic. I was, like, confirmed and everything. But it was all just part of, like, making my old Italian aunt happy. Like, it had nothing to do with.

[Caleb Heron]

Intense, personal, genuine faith.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. I mean, I remember the day before my confirmation, I was like, to my parents, I was like. Because there was a specific Bible verse we read, and I was like, I am not vibing with this. So Much. And they were like, look. They're like, look, do it for your aunt Gina. Come on.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And I did. I put on the little dress and I did my confirmation with this so much. I was not vibing.

[Caleb Heron]

Fucking with this. Like, extra heavy. I don't know if we have to do this.

[Annie Durusso]

I was not. Yeah, that's what I was kind of like. I was like, really?

[Caleb Heron]

Y'all?

[Annie Durusso]

Like, I'm not really vibing. Like, this doesn't seem very me.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And they were like, no, it's fine. Like, just go. And it doesn't have to be you.

[Caleb Heron]

It has to be angina. Let's go.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, exactly.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Like, yeah, Gina fought hard and long to be here.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, you have an aunt Gina. Yeah, I have an angina.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay, Beautiful.

[Caleb Heron]

But back to your story.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay, wait, I was. Okay. I would love for them to meet. Yeah. So then when I moved to college, I was pretty shocked to, like, walk. I also went to a Christian school in the Bible belt.

[Caleb Heron]

You made a big choice. Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Everyone from my town was so scared for me. Like, they were like. Like, it was literally, like, a huge deal. Everyone was like, you shouldn't do that. Like, that's not really. It's not gonna be good. Like, people were, like, really scared for me. And so I go to this Christian school in the Bible belt, and I'm shocked for some reason when I arrived there to see, like, Bible verses on people's dorm walls. I like, really. It was unexpected. I was like, really? Like, y'all eff with this so much. It's up on the wall like that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. And then it's like, like, come on.

[Annie Durusso]

Goober on the door in the dorm.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And I was like, there's no way. And then I was like, maybe their parents just, like, put that up and then they're gonna take it down. My leap.

[Caleb Heron]

No, they put it up.

[Annie Durusso]

And I realized really quickly, religion is alive and well. Christianity is alive and well.

[Caleb Heron]

It is alive and well. And all the conservative sects of every faith are equally goober and terrifying. Like, like, you know, extremely conservative people in any religion are scary and weird to me. But of the liberal sects of all faiths, my favorite are liberal Jewish people. Liberal Jewish people are the most fun to me.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

But liberal Christians scratch something special in my head and heart. Like, liberal, very liberal Christians. Like my mom. Honestly, my mom is somebody who's like, she believes in Jesus and she, like, loves trans people, and she's very non dogmatic. Liberal Christian people do scratch a special place in my Heart. For obvious reasons, I.

[Annie Durusso]

Me too. And that was a huge thing I learned moving to Nashville because, like, again, everyone from my town was so scared for me. And then when I got there, I very quickly realized because everyone's like, you know, people are like, so close minded. Whatever. Dah, dah, dah, dah. When I got there, I was like, okay, I think maybe like, y'all are being a little close minded right now because a lot of this people that I met and friends that I made, if they were like observing Christians, I don't know if that's the right phrase there. It was all just about love.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

You know, and I think that was something that I can totally get behind. I think there are kind of some scary sex in Nashville that seem like maybe it's all love, but then there are like, definitely some, like, microaggressions happening behind the scenes.

[Caleb Heron]

It's a Trojan horse situation.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

So, yeah. But I will say I love Nashville.

[Caleb Heron]

So much and I fucking love Nashville.

[Annie Durusso]

It's like a great city.

[Caleb Heron]

It rocks.

[Annie Durusso]

And there's so many amazing people there. There's so much amazing music being made there. It's just a great place to kind.

[Caleb Heron]

Of be, you know? I love Nashville. I genuinely love Nashville.

[Annie Durusso]

Caleb does love Nashville. Caleb came to visit me in Nashville, like a week. Well, I'm saying, like, that Caleb was.

[Caleb Heron]

There for work, but I made work be there so I could come to Nashville.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I made sure I got to Nashville. Hey, you know what? We should do some voicemails from our fans.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

Okay. We're going to listen to a voicemail from our callers. We haven't done this in a minute, so I'm excited to be back in the voicemail world.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, I'm a little scared. Wait, so what is happening?

[Caleb Heron]

Well, you're going to listen to a voicemail and then we're going to weigh in on it.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, okay. Can't wait.

[Caleb Heron]

Can't wait.

[Annie Durusso]

Hey, Caleb and guest. I don't know if this is going to charge me a million dollars to make because I'm actually calling from Australia, so. Yeah, I want to know the truth about DJs. What are they doing? What are they doing up there? What buttons are they pressing? What do they got going on? Thanks.

[Caleb Heron]

I absolutely say, I absolutely love being like, sorry, I'm actually calling from Australia. It's like, we know, babe, I'll let you know. We know there.

[Annie Durusso]

We got there.

[Caleb Heron]

What? You would know what DJs are up to. What are they pushing up there? That's a really good question.

[Annie Durusso]

I don't know exactly what DJs are up to. I was actually hired to do, like, a DJ set about a month ago. And I was like, surely I'll just put on a playlist.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And then the person was like, we're gonna have an another DJ up there with you. And then who was my friend Roberto. And then he called me like, a week or two before, and he was like, so I've never gone B2B before. And da da, da, da da, like all this stuff. And I was like, mm, same. So I was like, that's so interesting. I've also never gone B2BE, which I guess means you're, like, DJing with people and you're kind of, like, riffing off each other.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And what I'll say is I didn't do a damn thing when we were DJing. I just kind of went, I saw that coming.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Like, yeah. And he was amazing. And there was actually a lot to it, but it was cool. It's something I'm down to learn. He's like matching bpms, matching keys, blending things. My. My form of djing is kind of like dancing.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I think my djing would be like. My djing genuinely would be like, five people in my living room, I got some candles lit, and I'm like, you guys gotta listen to this Yeba cover.

[Annie Durusso]

That is your DJing.

[Caleb Heron]

Listen to Yeba cover this.

[Annie Durusso]

Like, sit down, sit down, first of all, and don't say a word.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. A gay man with a YouTube account is speaking. Listen and learn.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes, I actually. Yeah, that's. That's insanely real.

[Caleb Heron]

A gay guy. A gay guy with some YouTube covers has something to say. Listen up.

[Annie Durusso]

That's like, me, Luke and Sam will just sit around every night for hours just putting our favorite YouTube videos on.

[Caleb Heron]

I went on a date a couple weeks ago with this guy who. It went great. We went to a bar near my house. Then we went back to my place, and he was. I was like, oh, I want to play you this song that we talked about at dinner. And I played it for him. Then he was going to play you a song. So we start going back and forth playing each other songs with a hot. One of the hottest things you can do.

[Annie Durusso]

No, I actually just got butterflies.

[Caleb Heron]

But then I was playing. I was playing some yebba, literally a yabba song where she's in, like, a recording studio with a band, and it's. It's one of my favorites. And I can't at this moment remember what song it is like, I remember the visual of the thumbnail. And I was playing it for him, and he was, like, trying to make out with me. And I was like, I do want to you. But we're gonna listen to this. You have a song, I say, hey, take it. Whoa, brother. I'm gonna. You. But you're gonna listen to this. Yeah. Cover right quick.

[Annie Durusso]

It can go wrong, though. To you. Like, one time I had gone on, like, a. Like, a pretty, like, boring date. Let's just say, like. Let's call it boring. Like, there was yawning involved.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

We get back to my house, it's like, let me show you something. Puts on a 70 minute. Bye live, fully live concert.

[Caleb Heron]

No.

[Annie Durusso]

Of this, like, band that's cool, but very avant garde. And I was like, is it King Gizzard? I. No, I was falling asleep on the couch because it was already so boring.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

And I'm like this, like. And then they're like. That guitar tone is like. And it's like, oh. And like, also, they're not a musician, so absolutely, you know, like, not to say. No, not to say musicians can't recognize guitar tone, but I felt like they were trying to be like. So that guitar tone.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

No, no.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

It's like, turn this off. We're actually 45 minutes into this show. Yeah, it was. I, like, basically, yeah. Fell asleep. Watch on the date.

[Caleb Heron]

See, you're so much stronger than me. Because, like, seven minutes into that, I would have been like, hey, are we gonna hook up or should I head out? Because I'm not watching this.

[Annie Durusso]

I was so past wanting to hook up that I was almost like, I did not want to hook up.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Like, I was like, let's just keep this on.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

I put a board game on the couch in between us.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. The thing is. Yeah, if I take you home, I definitely want to sleep with you. And, yeah, you. But you. If you want to get these panties off, you got to listen to Yebba really quick. You got to listen to whatever you have to listen to. Frank Ocean singing I miss you live at the Bowery 2012.

[Annie Durusso]

Really quick, you do have these videos on lock. I was at Caleb's apartment for, I would say, 20 minutes the other day. Within seven minutes, we were sat watching YouTube.

[Caleb Heron]

I've got thoughts. Yeah, I've got thoughts.

[Annie Durusso]

It happened so quick.

[Caleb Heron]

I have my little videos that I like, then I like to play them. It's like, you know when a. You know when a dog brings you a stick and you can tell that to them. It's so much more than that. You can tell that they're like, I want to share this stick with you. This is a prize that I found. That's me with my little YouTube videos.

[Annie Durusso]

No, I'm kind of the same way. I'm a big YouTube girl. I always was. I was really into the. I was really into the British YouTubers.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

In middle and high school, I was like. Like, Zoella, do you know any of these people? No, of course not. Alfie Days, Marcus Butler. I was, like, freakishly into them. And, like, the only thing about them was they were British. Like, none of them had. Well, Zoella did makeup, but none of them really had any skills. They were not funny.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

They were just British. And they would hang out. I, in fact, got tickets to see them live on tour.

[Caleb Heron]

And what are they doing up there?

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, nothing.

[Caleb Heron]

That's the thing.

[Annie Durusso]

It was actually crazy. And I went to London for the first time, like, a year and a half ago, and it was like going to Disney. Like, everything I saw, I was like, Zoella in 2013 went to that Nando's.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, not Nando's.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah. I, like, was. I forced the people I was with to go to Nando's because they would always be like, I can't. I'm not going to do an accident. But they'd be like, getting.

[Caleb Heron]

Hey, we're going to Nando's there.

[Annie Durusso]

Getting to Cheeky Nando's.

[Caleb Heron]

Cheeky Nando's.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

Nando's has one of my favorite hot sauces.

[Annie Durusso]

They have so many hot sauces.

[Caleb Heron]

They're spicy. Garlic Peri Peri. Clocked in. Locked in.

[Annie Durusso]

Marcus Butler used to like that one.

[Caleb Heron]

Marcus Shout Out. One of my favorite. I was just in London for three weeks and one of my, like, little corner store meals when I just need to eat something quick before I went out was these frozen chicken meatballs that I would heat up and then put that specific, literally. I bought a bottle of garlic hot Peri. Peri sauce from Nando's, and I would put some on there and then eat it real quick and then run out the door.

[Annie Durusso]

Wow. I love that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, it was nice. It was. It was. It was. It was a fun time.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, it sounds amazing.

[Caleb Heron]

I have a question for you. What's so true to you?

[Annie Durusso]

Something that's so true to me is this saying that I've kind of been marinating on for, like, a year and a half, which is. It's good to be hot in the summer, and I'VE posted this, like, on Instagram, and I think about it all the time, but it's just about being where you are. So, like, in the summer, being outside in the heat instead of, like, turning on the AC and, like, feeling the air around you and being part of your environment. But to me, it also means, like, not numbing yourself to what's going on, because I tend to do that a lot. And this past year, I've been trying to be present and feel what's happening and listen to what's going on around me and kind of clock in and just be where I am. So that's what's so true to me.

[Caleb Heron]

I love that. I also think specifically the hot and the summer of it all is a. It's like, a really tasty way to do it, because specifically in summer, I get hot and get so fucking annoyed and can't wait for fall and winter when I won't be so hot and I wish away the summer, and then the winter and fall come, and I do enjoy them. But then I also. There are days when it's so cold that I'm just praying. I would do anything to be hot. I would do anything to walk outside in a T shirt, and I would. I can't wait for the summer. And you can just spend your whole life in that loop of, you know, not enjoying the thing that's going on for you currently and hoping for the thing that'll come later.

[Annie Durusso]

My best friend's mom, Ms. Violante, always used to say, don't rush spring.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

It's like, don't put the shorts on in February, you know?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Like, wait for it to be time. So it's kind of like, those are sister phrases. That's my. So true.

[Caleb Heron]

I love that.

[Annie Durusso]

I really went earnest. I went pretty earnest.

[Caleb Heron]

I really like that. Stop. Wait, wait.

[Annie Durusso]

I love that feeling a little crazy right now.

[Caleb Heron]

No, that's beautiful. Beautiful. It's good to be. Is it? It's good to be hot in the summer. It's good to be hot in the summer. I like that a lot. That should be merch.

[Annie Durusso]

It's about standing in the fire.

[Caleb Heron]

That should be Annie de Russo merch right there. It's good to be hot in the summer.

[Annie Durusso]

Good to be hot in the summer.

[Caleb Heron]

That'd be a fun tattoo also.

[Annie Durusso]

And it's also kind of like. Yeah, it's also good to be. It's like, good to be hot in the summer. Like, yeah, looking good, you know, good feeling. There's kind of a lot of meanings behind it. But really, I mean, like, just standing in the fire, being where you are.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, I love that.

[Annie Durusso]

I love you.

[Caleb Heron]

You're such a poet. I love you more. And I mean that. And I really mean that.

[Annie Durusso]

The way you looked at me took me back.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, I meant it, and that's a little.

[Annie Durusso]

No, you meant it for sure.

[Caleb Heron]

Something I asked people a lot on this show that I want to ask you is, you know, what do you want? So here you are. Annie D. Russo. Moved to Nashville, went to Belmont, graduated, have had some big songs, have had some great. Some great music, some great press. You've been on all this cool stuff. It's really going well for you. You just signed a new deal with a new record label, which is really fucking cool, and some stuff will come of that, whatever it may be. And, yeah, things are going really well for you. But what do you want? What's the point?

[Annie Durusso]

The point to me is to have fun, to be honest, and spend time with people I love. And that's something that. Especially being like. I took some time off to write this group of songs from touring for the last year, year and a half, and it was very illuminating for me of what matters and what my priorities are. So I just want to spend time with people I love, make stuff that I really love and am proud of and have fun making and hopefully get to play a bunch of shows that are really fun and have a good time doing it. I think making music is. Can seem so serious, and it is, but at the end of the day, I'm making music like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, I'm just like, my. I was, like, sitting in my room for months, just. I would go on little walks, come back, I would think, you know, maybe play the guitar for a second. It's, like, not that serious, and I want to just kind of live in that feeling of, like, I'm doing this because I love to do it, and I'm doing this because it's fun. And I want the audiences at the show to feel that. That, and I want my band to feel that way and just have a good time and celebrate being able to just be alive, making music and taking in music and art and stuff.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

So that's kind of what's up. I don't know if that was your question.

[Caleb Heron]

No, I love that. I think that's a great thing to focus. I. I feel very similarly, Like, I finished my huge tour last year of my hour, and I felt like, God, once this hour is over, I'm never gonna have stand up to do again. Like, I've worked on this for so long, so hard. And, yeah, I just kind of took time off and was like, I'm not doing standup for a while, and now I'm back doing new material and I went and lived and I have some things to talk about, and it feels like, yeah. I am just constantly trying to remind myself that nothing is that serious and nothing matters that much. Get stressed out being like, fuck, I've got to get this done this hour or else it's gonna be late. And it's like, it can be late. No, say it just doesn't matter.

[Annie Durusso]

I actually. Caleb knows I cried for the whole entire day yesterday, so. So if my eyes are a little swollen in this episode, that's why. But then I'm like. As I'm saying, like, nothing's that serious. I literally cried for 12 hours yesterday. So. But what I will say is, like, just feeling that way and then waking up today and being like, what do I have to do today? I'm going to go beyond Caleb's podcast, and then I'm going to make some videos and work on this, like, music video. You know, it's like, that's really sweet and really fun, and I feel lucky to do it, and I'm excited to just hopefully take things in that direction.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Rather than letting it get too serious, especially as I'm starting to release so much new music. I think it's just about having a good time doing it, to be honest, and getting to still spend time with people you love. But, yeah, I'm excited to just play more shows, make more music. And, you know, I've been really into pickling things. Like, I love.

[Caleb Heron]

What's your favorite? You have to. If you can only pick one favorite pickled item.

[Annie Durusso]

Red onion radish. Really?

[Caleb Heron]

Pickled radishes in a poke bowl or in I. That. That fucking spicy tuna. The spicy tuna crispy rice that we had the other night.

[Annie Durusso]

Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

And they put pickled radish in there at an incredibly inspired touch. Their hands were guided by. God, that was beautiful. I love that they did that.

[Annie Durusso]

You loved a lot about that restaurant. There was a skeleton. We went to the sushi restaurant the other night. There was a skeleton in the corner. They were, you know, decorating for Halloween, holding a plate of sushi. Caleb couldn't stop looking at it. He stood. But we were in a big rush. She stood by it for minutes when we walked in. Then we sat down at her table and, like, we're having a conversation, you know, when you're like, this person's not here with me. Because Caleb's eyes would be like, they.

[Caleb Heron]

Dressed the skeleton like a sushi chef.

[Annie Durusso]

Staring at this sushi skeleton.

[Caleb Heron]

They dressed the skeleton like a sushi chef and had him holding an omakase plate, like.

[Annie Durusso]

And then when we left, he went back up to it. He, like, told the people. He told the people working at the restaurant, like, loving that.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, it's almost enough to make me cry. I really thought that was so fun. I like that they did that because it's playful.

[Annie Durusso]

I loved it, too. But it, like, really.

[Caleb Heron]

It took a. I really did love him or her. Them. I don't know. But I loved that skeleton, the sushi skeleton. I thought, well, he has a job. Or, you know, I like that they love sushi because they're here at the sushi restaurant. But it's also spooky. I thought how fun.

[Annie Durusso]

He was definitely working there. He was in the uniform.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah, they were. Yeah. You never know.

[Annie Durusso]

I didn't know. You're right. You're right. You're right.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. You just never know. And I. And I didn't check. And I wouldn't. I don't care what their gender are.

[Annie Durusso]

I just didn't check.

[Caleb Heron]

I didn't check. I didn't ask. I didn't talk to you. I didn't check my paperwork into anything.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, no, you didn't.

[Caleb Heron]

I just said, I love that you're a sushi chef.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

How beautiful is that?

[Annie Durusso]

It was really beautiful. Was it distracting from the time we were having? Yeah, a little bit.

[Caleb Heron]

Of course. Yeah. I was not focused on you, but it was great. Yeah, it was beautiful for me. Me and the sushi chef had a connection.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Caleb Heron]

What was I going to say to you? It was something. Oh, well, on your trying to have fun and see people I love type wave. I'm also recently focused on inspiring fun in others. I want to encourage people to do fun things. There's enough voices of reason in the world, you know, wait, I love that there's enough voices of reason. There's enough people that will tell you to be cautious. There's enough. There are so many people that would tell you this. There are therapists. There are often your parents. There are counselors. There are, like, financial advisors. I have decided very recently that my role in the world is going to be to encourage fun and recklessness.

[Annie Durusso]

Give an example.

[Caleb Heron]

Like, for example, we did an episode recently where I told the Rachel Pegram episode where I said, overdraft your bank account to have fun if you're low on money, spend it anyway. Skip your rent. I'm just gonna give the reckless advice, that is, have fun.

[Annie Durusso]

Well, I feel that way. I feel like money you can always, most of the time, make back.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah.

[Annie Durusso]

Find sleep when you're dead.

[Caleb Heron]

Sleep when you're a sushi chef in the afterlife.

[Annie Durusso]

And, yeah, go do things. I want. I need to be more like that. I'm not like that at all. I just. I'm the type of person who, like, give that advice but, like, so doesn't follow it.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, I'm trying to take it as well, and I'm. I'm trying to inspire. I want to inspire fun. I think that's a big part of my goal here.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, I love that.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. I not only want to have it, but I want to inspire it. I want people to. When people need to hear somebody say, do the reckless thing, I hope they will come to me.

[Annie Durusso]

I always will. Now please do.

[Caleb Heron]

And I'll say, go do it. You only live once. Life is short. You know that. I like to say that.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

You know that. I like to wield that ax.

[Annie Durusso]

Absolutely.

[Caleb Heron]

I have a segment for you.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay.

[Caleb Heron]

I am going to read you 15 statements, and you're going to tell me as quickly as you can if you think that each one is true or false. Quickly as you can. And if you get 10 or more correct, Annie, I'm going to give you 50 US dollars.

[Annie Durusso]

I am really scared for this because I want to be really good at it, but I think I'm going to be bad.

[Caleb Heron]

Well, we're about to find out. Taylor Swift's middle name is Sinclair.

[Annie Durusso]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

False.

[Annie Durusso]

It's Allison.

[Caleb Heron]

Allison. Hummingbirds migrate alone.

[Annie Durusso]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

True. Redheads need about 20% more anesthesia than people with different hair colors.

[Annie Durusso]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

True. MySpace is older than Sabrina Carpenter.

[Annie Durusso]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

False. It is illegal to hark your. It is illegal to honk your car horn in New York City.

[Annie Durusso]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

That's true. Tab soda was invented by the Mormon Church.

[Annie Durusso]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

False. The dog from Airbud is still alive.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh. True. False.

[Caleb Heron]

Dad Seth MacFarlane was a writer for Johnny Bravo.

[Annie Durusso]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

True. The Michelin man's real name is Curtis.

[Annie Durusso]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

False. Bibbing Dumb by Bendum. Bats are blind.

[Annie Durusso]

True.

[Caleb Heron]

False. They can see and use echolocation. The official language of Brazil is Spanish.

[Annie Durusso]

False.

[Caleb Heron]

False. It's Portuguese. Athens is Europe's oldest capital city.

[Annie Durusso]

You know, in between Athens and Rome right now, like, what came first? The Roman. True.

[Caleb Heron]

It's true. Bees have two wings. False. They have four. Belmont. I also love through the course of the episode, Annie's getting progressively farther away from the microphone. Annie eventually is going to be in the corner behind that plant. Belmont University's mascot is Bobby the Bruin.

[Annie Durusso]

It's definitely a Bruin, whether or not its name is Bobby. False.

[Caleb Heron]

False. Bruiser. Bruiser 2 is the only even prime number.

[Annie Durusso]

True, True.

[Caleb Heron]

How'd she do? 8. Oh, that's really good, though, is that. I know you went on a long run of. Ls there. I send you the segment. L. I clip this. L. So funny. Well, you did pretty good.

[Annie Durusso]

Yeah, it didn't. It didn't feel great.

[Caleb Heron]

You did pretty good. And I want you to know that.

[Annie Durusso]

I felt like at the beginning, I was, like, really on it. And then, of course, I had that slump in the middle.

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. God, Annie, I gotta tell you, I love you to death.

[Annie Durusso]

I love you to death.

[Caleb Heron]

It was too much fun to have you on the show.

[Annie Durusso]

It was the best.

[Caleb Heron]

I literally can't wait for your music and I can't wait for. We have some. We have some exciting stuff that might be happening together that we won't. We won't tell people, but you and I might be doing something together soon.

[Annie Durusso]

I'm trying to. Oh, my God. Yes.

[Caleb Heron]

I knew you were getting that. I knew you were getting that.

[Annie Durusso]

Oh, my God. I'm actually so excited.

[Caleb Heron]

I knew you'd get there. And we won't. We won't tell them about it now, but we'll just let them know that might be happening. Is there anything that you want to tell the. What is it? Five to seven billion people who watch the show?

[Annie Durusso]

Five to seven billion?

[Caleb Heron]

Yeah. Do you want to tell five to seven billion truthers and caliberties?

[Annie Durusso]

Sure. Caleb's a good guy. I was really happy to be here today.

[Caleb Heron]

Keep going.

[Annie Durusso]

He's a really wonderful friend and I love him so much. And. Yeah.

[Caleb Heron]

So your manager, Kat, is going to kill you because usually this is where people plug their social medias.

[Annie Durusso]

And you know what? I'll say. Shout out to Kat. Love you, Kat.

[Caleb Heron]

Shout out Kat.

[Annie Durusso]

Okay, my name is. My name is Eddie derusa. I have a new song coming out called Wet and Legs. Legs is about Caleb and Wet is inspired by him, too. And then. Yeah, I've got a lot of new music coming out, so check it out. And Caleb was the muse for a.

[Caleb Heron]

Lot of it, so I love you so much.

[Annie Durusso]

I love you so much.

[Caleb Heron]

Thanks for being on.

[Annie Durusso]

Thanks for having me.