Confronting My Producer

Summary

Podcast Title: So True with Caleb Hearon
Episode: Confronting My Producer
Release Date: May 8, 2025
Host/Author: Headgum

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Introduction

In the poignant and candid episode titled "Confronting My Producer," Caleb Hearon delves deep into his dynamic relationship with his producer, Chance Nichols. This episode unpacks their longstanding friendship, the genesis of their collaborative podcast venture, and the personal and professional challenges they've navigated together. Through heartfelt conversations and introspective moments, Caleb and Chance explore themes of authenticity, body image, the evolution of the comedy scene, and the impact of modern media on creative endeavors.

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Navigating the Producer-Host Relationship

Early in the episode, Caleb sets the stage by addressing his concerns about Chance's performance and commitment to their show.
Caleb Hearon [00:05]: "I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if you think that what I just said is true or false..."
This lighthearted yet tense introduction underscores the underlying pressure Caleb feels regarding the show's future.

Chance Nichols [00:59]: "Yeah, yeah."
Their banter reveals a mix of frustration and camaraderie, highlighting the complexities of maintaining a professional relationship with a close friend.

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Body Image and Personal Struggles

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around body image issues and Chance's battle with body dysmorphia.
Chance Nichols [02:10]: "I'm a little on edge just because I genuinely hate how I look..."
Caleb Hearon [03:32]: "Yeah. You know, well, we should work on that."
They discuss the impact of constant exposure to high-quality cameras, which exacerbates self-consciousness and self-image concerns.

Chance Nichols [04:08]: "I've been trying something because I think I have some form of legitimate body dysmorphia."
This vulnerability provides listeners with an honest look into the personal challenges that can accompany public personas.

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The Genesis of Their Podcast Collaboration

Caleb and Chance reminisce about their college days and the initial friction that eventually led to their collaboration.
Caleb Hearon [09:03]: "We were enemies when we met."
Chance Nichols [09:58]: "Sure. And that's fair."
Their transition from antagonism to partnership underscores themes of personal growth and the unpredictable nature of relationships.

The duo recounts the pivotal moment when they decided to launch their podcast, driven by mutual respect and a shared comedic vision.
Caleb Hearon [19:03]: "So we met in college doing college improv."
Chance Nichols [25:01]: "After that first meeting ... there was a real spark between both of us..."
This collaboration was born out of a desire to recapture the creative energy they once shared, despite initial setbacks and differing career paths.

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Challenges with Podcast Networks and Independence

Caleb shares his frustrations with traditional podcast networks that failed to recognize the unique vision he and Chance had for their show.
Caleb Hearon [27:00]: "These people are so visionless."
Chance Nichols [33:29]: "The last whispers of old media trying to grasp desperately at the coattails of new media."
Their decision to remain independent, despite financial strains, highlights the struggles creators often face when traditional gatekeepers misunderstand or undervalue innovative content.

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Building Community Through Comedy

Caleb and Chance emphasize the importance of community in the comedy world, especially within improv classes and collaborative environments.
Caleb Hearon [15:46]: "We moved to Chicago and immediately got into class, improv class."
They discuss how these communities provide support, foster creativity, and serve as extensions of educational environments, contrasting sharply with the isolating aspects of the modern real world.

Chance Nichols [16:33]: "Like, bare minimum. It's, you know, I don't know how it is now..."
This reflects their belief in the enduring value of active, engaged communities in nurturing creative talents.

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Reflections on the Modern Comedy Scene and Media Evolution

The conversation shifts to the transformation of the comedy scene, particularly how the internet has democratized fame and altered traditional pathways to success.
Chance Nichols [17:06]: "You brought up ... it's been so much a good thing at the very end."
They lament the decline of mega stars emerging solely from established institutions like Second City, attributing it to the vast, often unnoticed pool of internet-based talent.

Caleb Hearon [18:15]: "We don't really have mega stars anymore. There's so few mega stars and so many..."
This discussion underscores the saturation of content creators online, making it harder for traditional comedic talent to break through.

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True or False: A Segment of Personal Truths

Towards the episode's end, Caleb engages Chance in a True or False game, testing personal and obscure facts about each other. This segment serves as both a playful interlude and a means to reveal deeper layers of their friendship.

Caleb Hearon [62:58]: "I'm gonna read you 15 statements..."
Chance Nichols [63:28]: Various responses
The game culminates with Chance narrowly avoiding being "fired," reinforcing the episode's initial tensions but ultimately celebrating their enduring partnership.

---

Conclusion

"Confronting My Producer" is a deeply personal episode that navigates the intricate dance between friendship and professional collaboration. Caleb Hearon and Chance Nichols offer listeners an unfiltered look into their lives, challenges, and the comedic journey they've embarked upon together. Through honest dialogue and shared vulnerabilities, the episode encapsulates the essence of what it means to create and sustain meaningful work in the ever-evolving landscape of modern media.

Notable Quotes:

• Caleb Hearon [03:26]: "You just didn't ever think about it and you were fine with it."
• Chance Nichols [03:32]: "I feel I've had to really... distance yourself from your physical form."
• Caleb Hearon [34:05]: "I hope you... you'll just go do it."
• Chance Nichols [68:07]: "It's ableist. Like it's crazy."

These moments capture the episode's blend of humor, introspection, and candidness, making "Confronting My Producer" a standout installment in So True with Caleb Hearon.

Transcript

[Chance Nichols]

This is a headgum podcast.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if you think that what I just said is true or false. If you get 10 or more correct, you get to keep your job. Wow. If you get fewer than 10 correct.

[Chance Nichols]

Uh huh.

[Caleb Hearon]

This will be your final week of employment with the show.

[Chance Nichols]

Okay. Let's do it.

[Caleb Hearon]

I can't believe we're doing this.

[Chance Nichols]

Why you?

[Caleb Hearon]

I just don't. You know what I'm worried about?

[Chance Nichols]

What are you worried about?

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm worried. It's like when you give a kid dessert before they've done their chores or something.

[Chance Nichols]

Sure.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm worried that I'm. I'm worried that everything's just downhill from here, so.

[Chance Nichols]

Excuse me. You think. You think after a year and some change of work on the show, behind the scenes I still haven't done my chores?

[Caleb Hearon]

I just worry that. I just worry that you were. This was what it was all about. And now I'm gonna see a steady decline in work and productivity.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

You know, I'm a leftist course as much as the next guy.

[Chance Nichols]

Of course.

[Caleb Hearon]

But this is a business.

[Chance Nichols]

Yes, sir.

[Caleb Hearon]

And people have to work.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And so I need you to show up to work.

[Chance Nichols]

You know, I'm not gonna change up one iota.

[Caleb Hearon]

Really.

[Chance Nichols]

This. I'm gonna be normal. I'm gonna be me. I'm gonna be me after this.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm gonna be normal.

[Chance Nichols]

I'm not gonna wear sunglasses inside.

[Caleb Hearon]

The promise of normal.

[Chance Nichols]

The promise of normal is something that I hold dear to my heart because I do like to be. You said something really nice to me, and I think it was on one of the Patreon ones. You called me a rock. You called me a rock.

[Caleb Hearon]

You're heavy and in the way.

[Chance Nichols]

Mr. Heron.

[Caleb Hearon]

Don't.

[Chance Nichols]

Hey, you don't want it. Mr. Heron.

[Caleb Hearon]

The sirs and the Mr. Herons bit might have to be over.

[Chance Nichols]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Let's address that on the pod.

[Chance Nichols]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

It just is like. It's almost like. You say it like it's funny, but it's like I am your boss.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Do you know this is my one respite?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

This is my version of. Cause I'm like, you are the boss and I'm kind of the middle manager in this world. And so this is my version of throwing a pizza party. Is. This is like. This is the fun. That's not really fun. You know what I mean?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Your whole body is tense right now.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

You seem really on edge.

[Chance Nichols]

I'm A little on edge just because I genuinely hate how I look at every moment and I'm worried about. But I love being on camera and I love being seen. But I do. Like, I'm already. I'm not necessarily in my head about it, I wouldn't say. But I am thinking about having to watch this over and over and over again and be like, God damn it, what happened?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, you know, well, we should work on that.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, I think so.

[Caleb Hearon]

And also, it's real, though. I mean, there's something about being in front of high quality cameras every week for an hour and a half.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I feel I've had to really. Everything on the Internet has gotten me to a better place with, like. Well, immediately took me to a really. I never thought about my appearance before I was doing Internet stuff. I never thought about the way I looked when I was on stage. I was never wondering if I looked fat or if my hairline was pushing back too much or if I was looking older in the face or anything. Never.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

The second I started doing Internet stuff, I started picking up part of my appearance and going, oh, I didn't used to look like this. And then I look at pictures from before and go, yeah, you looked like this.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. You just didn't ever think about it and you were fine with it. And then, yeah, the podcast, the high quality camera, every week of it all, you. You have to kind of distance yourself from your physical form.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. And I'm also like, I've been trying something because I think I have some form of legitimate body dysmorphia.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

Because I see how I look in mirrors, which apparently is more accurate to how you actually look than like, a camera lens or, like a video or whatever. I'm like, oh, I like that. And then I'll see, like, somebody will have filmed, like, a video of me doing standup or like a sketch that I didn't shoot myself or whatever. And I'll be like. Or who is that person?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

And I don't know. But you. I don't know if it was you that said this. Somebody said this recently and it really rung true for me. Somebody was like, I've stopped caring about how I look in photos. I care about how I feel in photos. Like, was I happy? Like, oh, I was happy taking this picture with my friend that I took a photo with, and I'm trying to bring that in.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's really beautiful.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Thank you. I really like that.

[Chance Nichols]

Thank you.

[Caleb Hearon]

I have definitely. Virginia and I talked about this a little Bit maybe on tour. I used to be one of those people who, if someone took an unflattering picture or video of me and posted it on their Instagram story like a friend, I would message them back and be like, please delete this.

[Chance Nichols]

Yep.

[Caleb Hearon]

And now I don't care if I look like a fucking bridge troll.

[Chance Nichols]

For sure.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm like, you post whatever you want. I do not care. It does not matter to me. No, you have to get to that place, I think, because it's just, we're all. There's so much picture and video and capturing of image that I'm just like, I just. And by the way, I like the way I look.

[Chance Nichols]

You're very handsome. Oh, Chance, you're very handsome. And I'll say this to anybody who asks, you're a very handsome man.

[Caleb Hearon]

And.

[Chance Nichols]

And I think you are. You said this once. I keep referencing things that you've said before just. Cause I listen to you so much just in my life. But you said something about if you know my silhouette, you know who I am, like, as far as like, anonymity goes. And I'm like, you are like a well built character.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. You know what I mean? Nice. Yeah, Nice.

[Chance Nichols]

Tony Hawk, like, you're a well built. It's like, oh, yeah. All this is checking out and lining up and there's some synchronicity in here.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's beautiful, Chance. I think you're quite handsome, brother.

[Chance Nichols]

Thank you.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think you have nothing to worry about on the looks front.

[Chance Nichols]

Thank you.

[Caleb Hearon]

I would love, love, love. Anytime you ever want to talk about clothes or hairstyling or beard, I'm always happy to talk about it.

[Chance Nichols]

Well, you brought up. This is years ago. You asked me, we were at like lunch in Chicago or something. You were like, would you just give me like $200? And I'm just going to give me $200 all your sizes for like pants, shirts, all these things. And I'm just going to go to like Target and a coup and I'm gonna redo your wardrobe. Would you let me do that? And at the time I was like, what's wrong with my wardrobe? Basketball shorts and hoodies aren't cool. And I've thought about wanting to take you up on it again.

[Caleb Hearon]

I would still do it. There's nothing wrong with your wardrobe. I believe that conversation was spurred out of a conversation where you said, oh, I don't. I feel like my clothes are basic. Or you would like express being like, oh, I don't really know how to get the look that I'm looking for or what things would look good on me and not on other people. And I am pretty good about understanding what would look good on somebody versus someone else. Not everything looks good on everybody, and that doesn't mean that everybody shouldn't wear whatever they want. Yeah, everybody should wear whatever they want. But objectively, certain things create different lines and different esthetic appeals to different body types.

[Chance Nichols]

For sure.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's just how it is.

[Chance Nichols]

Well, and I'm remembering now, this was. This is, like, at the tail end of 2019. And then I told myself, one of the things I kept repeating to myself going into 2020 was, I'm going to live out loud this year. I'm going to get colorful with my cloth. Like, I'm a silly. Like, I. I don't want to be, like, a clown. But, you know, fun patterns, fun colors, things like that. If you find, like, my New Year's Eve outfit that in 2019, like, it was, like, a fun, like, stripy shirt with a white blazer and, like, purple pants, and I was like, this is gonna be it. This is gonna be. And then I wore the same outfit for nine months. Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Ms. Covina.

[Chance Nichols]

I loved her so much. She was so good to me.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, she's still here, by the way. By the way.

[Chance Nichols]

By the way.

[Caleb Hearon]

Not that you're acting like it. No, that's not funny. Interesting. We shouldn't be joking about stuff like that.

[Chance Nichols]

Who are you to say what is and what isn't funny?

[Caleb Hearon]

The king of comedy. Okay. Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

All right.

[Caleb Hearon]

There you go.

[Chance Nichols]

Well. Well, I think we did it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Any question? Oh, the arbiter of truth.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Any questions?

[Chance Nichols]

No, sir.

[Caleb Hearon]

It is. It has to be kind of weird for you that we've been friends for so long and now so many hours of your life are listening to me talk.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, it's. I've. I've developed. Not what I call. I wouldn't call it a numbness to it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Okay.

[Chance Nichols]

But there is.

[Caleb Hearon]

Okay.

[Chance Nichols]

There's just a. I've gotten to a point where I'm seeing it almost as, like, just data. You know what I mean? Like, oh, this is a funny piece of data. This is a sincere piece of data. And when I'm, like, going through the episode and doing the notes and stuff, it's not like I'm like, oh, and here goes Caleb again. It's like, oh, this is a good moment. Oh, this is a good moment. Oh, we need to cut this. Oh. And, like, it's much more streamlined in my head, but it is weird, especially after, like, during the tour, when we've just kind of been on top of each other for, like, a month, and then doing, like, an episode edit, being like, all right, well, we'll see in the morning. And then turning around, it's like. And now more Caleb.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

Just on my computer.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm just there haunting you.

[Chance Nichols]

There's worse people to be haunted by.

[Caleb Hearon]

Absolutely. But I am haunting. And I wonder if you ever, you know, for the people who don't know our lore, we met in college.

[Chance Nichols]

Yes.

[Caleb Hearon]

Doing college improv.

[Chance Nichols]

So much fun.

[Caleb Hearon]

Effectively. A lot of fun. Did you ever. Did you ever, in a million years, imagine that this would be the thing?

[Chance Nichols]

No.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

I sure didn't.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, me neither.

[Chance Nichols]

Sure didn't. What did you think was gonna be.

[Caleb Hearon]

The thing when we first met? I didn't imagine that we would ever really be talking again.

[Chance Nichols]

Correct. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

We were enemies when we met.

[Chance Nichols]

We did not like each other.

[Caleb Hearon]

We did not like each other.

[Chance Nichols]

No.

[Caleb Hearon]

And that was mutual.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, it sure was.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I thought if I never have to talk to that guy again, it would be the best thing that ever happened to me.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

It wasn't that serious, but I did. But I did. I was like you. You definitely pushed my buttons for reasons that I think part of it is just that my friends liked you in a way that I was like, well, why are we liking someone new when we've already got the group? Like, I didn't understand that.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

That was just, like, childish, stupid being 20 stuff. And then I think also the comedy stuff of it all. I felt a little bit like I hadn't yet given myself permission to pursue comedy. I felt like somebody had to kind of tap you on the shoulder and go, hey, you're funny. You're welcome to try. And you had already given yourself permission in such a big way in, like, very much a. A very, like, straight guy kind of way, where you were like, I am funny, and I'm gonna go pursue this. And you were right. You should have been. But I hadn't given myself that yet. And so I kind of pathologized that in you. And I think I resented you a little bit because of it.

[Chance Nichols]

Sure. And that's fair.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I was annoyed. I was just like, who does this guy fucking think he is?

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. I was up on my high horse a little bit back then when it came to comedy, just because I had had such so many. I'd just been doing it so long at that point. Like, a lot of our friends started doing comedy. Like, in college. I did My first standup set when I was, like, 15. I started doing improv when I was, like, 11 in, like, the local scene in Springfield, Missouri. And I. It was all just like, I felt like an elder statesman already, which is so annoying to people my age. And honestly, what absolved me of all that, and I think when our friendship really started cooking, was when I stopped kind of associating with, like, the local comedy people and just gave myself over fully to the campus comedy scene. Cause it was the first time in my life that I had been doing comedy with my peers. Like, people my age that also have aspirations and goals and dreams and energy for those things, as opposed to, you know, a bunch of people. Not necessarily, like a character judgment on them, but they in their own heads. They're like, I'm on the wrong side of 35, and I don't really like my life. This improv thing started out as something fun, and now it's turned into something where I just kind of use it to control young people.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's a different energy.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And it's why college campuses are so magic. Like, even still, when I go to a college gig and I'm on a college campus, you just feel an energy of, like, every. Every person who inhabits this space on a daily basis feels mostly correctly, that their entire life is ahead of them. And that energy is in the fucking bushes. Yeah, it is in the, like, a college campus. You just feel optimism.

[Chance Nichols]

You can milk it out of, like, the mascot.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

I tell you.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. You could milk the mascot.

[Chance Nichols]

You could go up to jerk Optim.

[Caleb Hearon]

Out of the masculine.

[Chance Nichols]

You could jerk Boomer Bear. And it's just a string of optimism flowing out of him. And that was fun to say, but I know exactly what you mean. It is like, there's something about. And what's really sad is when people are wrong. I know people in my life that was just like, oh, those four years were the best for you.

[Caleb Hearon]

Is that sad?

[Chance Nichols]

I think it's a little sad just because it's almost never. They got just so unlucky that that's the case. It's. They decided in their that, and they kind of gave up. You know what I mean? Like, it's like that with high school, too. A lot of people I went to high school with are just like, oh, yeah, this is friends. Parents were telling me when we were in high school. It's like, it's a special four years that you'll never get back. Which is true. But it's like, some people, I feel like, heard that not as. Oh, yes, that was a special four years. And there's going to be many more special four years in my life. I think they heard that as well. Have fun now, because after this, it's all downhill.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

I think that's very sad.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think there's. There could be a sadness to it. I mean, it's funny to me, when I think about that a lot, when I think about the idea of peaking, I go, well, in every life, one of. One of the chunks of time has to be the best chunk.

[Chance Nichols]

Sure.

[Caleb Hearon]

You know, I mean, some people are going to be high school, Some people are going to be college. Some people are going to be their 50s.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

But everyone has to have a best time of their life. Like, that is. I do. I have been very lucky that my life has gotten better every year. I've enjoyed. I've enjoyed each chapter of my life more than the last so far.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I have big, big hopes and dreams it'll continue that way. We didn't have massive struggles. Yeah. High school and college sucked in a million ways. Being broke in Chicago sucked in a million ways. This part of life that we're in currently has tons of drawbacks. It's just. I think it's a perspective that you either choose to make this year feel better than the last one based on genuinely pursuing the things that you want and who you actually want to be, or you don't. But I think what makes me sad about the idea of college being the best part of someone's life is just so much of that is that the real world sucks.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Not living within walking distance of affordable food. Affordable usually because you're taking out loans you shouldn't be taking out, but still, it's affordable in the moment that you can go and reliably get good food, that you can reliably walk to a bunch of people you love and have a million things in common with that you can reliably walk to a library and free resources. There's. There's therapy if you have a breakdown in the student center. There's writing help with your papers. There's. We don't do any of that in the real world.

[Chance Nichols]

No.

[Caleb Hearon]

There's no help for anybody. And if there is, it costs fucking money that you don't have.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. It's. It really is like. And we especially had such a great college experience. I think just because we were. Were laughing nonstop by the time you and I were seniors, we had gotten to the point where the school was coming to us. Being like, would you be like the ambassadors of a good time at these events. Like, would you host these things? Would you. Like, we were like on campus, like the go to guys for a good time, which was awesome. And I like, you know, I hear stories from people's like, college experience while I was in school with them and they're like, oh, yeah, I was miserable the entire time. And I'm like, that sucks. And I do. That's the other thing is I don't feel like any sort of superiority that I feel like the best years are still to come for me or that every year is good over people that are like, oh yeah, college is the best time of my life. High school is the best of my life. That's perfectly fine. I say all the time. It's like, I'm crazy. You know what I mean? Like, what I want out of my life is crazy. I had crazy goals and things. Some people's goal is to be a junior high football coach and they love their life and I want nothing but happiness for those people because I can see, it's like, I see how you light up and are passionate about this thing. Doesn't have to be my thing. My thing's crazy. It's crazy that this kind of worked out, you know what I mean?

[Caleb Hearon]

It's also okay for everyone to not understand each other's things. I just want everyone to be happy and I want better communities for all of us. Yeah, I think that's the thing that sucks is you leave so many people leave college and they move off to, you know, some fucking city to get a job and they don't. It's hard to make friends. And luckily the thing about comedy that we have, I think all in this room benefited from is these like built in big communities and kind of extenuations of school in a way.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

We moved to Chicago and immediately got into class, improv class. We started a new school. Like we basically started comedy grad school. And yeah, you meet so many new people and yeah, you're paying for it. I mean, I luckily had like a box office internship where I exchanged labor for improv classes.

[Chance Nichols]

How fun.

[Caleb Hearon]

Good deal, good deal. Certainly something a for profit business should be doing. But it's great for me because I couldn't afford the classes. So, yeah, I don't know. We get to continue that kind of community by virtue of this thing that we do. But it's a very specific hobby in that way.

[Chance Nichols]

Absolutely.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think a lot of other people struggle with that.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, I think so too. And I don't know. It's. That is. I tell people all the time, even if, like, you're not interested in comedy or whatever, it's like, take an improv class. If you move to a new city, you'll meet. You'll make five new friends.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

Like, bare minimum. It's, you know, I don't know how it is now, honestly. Like, the improv bubble burst a little bit, and that's. I don't engage with that community in the same way that I used to.

[Caleb Hearon]

But I wonder if they feel the way that we felt, because we felt when we were doing it that we were kind of at the tail end of a good thing, regardless.

[Chance Nichols]

Like, the party seemed to be ending.

[Caleb Hearon]

We already felt that the party was kind of over with improv and stuff. And I'm wondering if they just feel the same way now and if they'll look back and go, oh, the party's really over now.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I wonder if that's just how it is now that we all think the party's over.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. It's the Tony Soprano thing. It's like, I can't help but feel like I've got into a good thing at the very end.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

You know what I mean? And I do wonder if that's how everybody felt. I don't know if it is, because our era of, like, Chicago comedy, specifically, I felt like it was the lowest amount of people getting famous from Chicago. Like, you know, really? I think so. Just, like, as far as, like, going on to become, like, movie stars and shit, because there were so.

[Caleb Hearon]

We haven't had the time yet.

[Chance Nichols]

I know, but there's just, like, so many. Like, you look at so many of these different eras, and it was like, every single person that was on the Second City Main stage for, like, 15 years, for the most part, not every person, but at least one or two people from the Second City Main Stage for, like, a good decade plus, became a household name in some way or another. And I feel like we. That was something that we were kind of losing there at the end because of the Internet. I think the Internet kind of took away the allure of, like, oh, the only funny people are people who have cut their teeth in this system in Chicago. So we have to come and watch them or this system in New York, whatever it is. It's like now they have this whole new sea of talented people that it's like, oh, not only are they proven to be funny, they're proven that a massive audience wants to watch them on a screen.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

You know?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, also, it's just so. We don't really have mega stars anymore. There's so few mega stars and so many. There are many people that we come up with in Chicago that are huge on the Internet that we don't even know about. I'll sometimes hear someone be like, oh, did you hear about David? And I go, what's going on with David? Oh, he's got 10 million followers on TikTok. He does reviews of sandwiches or whatever. And I go, fuck, I didn't know that. Go, David. You know what I mean? Sure, I didn't know. And that's happened a number of times. But I want to talk a little bit about the podcast.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

So we tell people what your perspective of how this started.

[Chance Nichols]

Boy. Okay. Hello, people. So you and I had a lunch, and actually, let's walk it back even further, actually.

[Caleb Hearon]

Picture this.

[Chance Nichols]

So it's a lunch.

[Caleb Hearon]

Garden of Eden.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. January 3rd, 1995. Snow billowing down. It was in during 2020. You and I, we moved to LA about the same time. You let me put my moving boxes on your truck because I couldn't afford one and you were moving with someone.

[Caleb Hearon]

So keep in mind, I also couldn't afford one.

[Chance Nichols]

Right.

[Caleb Hearon]

And Shelby Wolstein was paying the majority of the moving truck costs.

[Chance Nichols]

And thank you, Shelb.

[Caleb Hearon]

And shout out to Shelby. And shout out to her mom.

[Chance Nichols]

And shout out to her mom. I wish I could have been on that trip because it does sound fun, but I flew to L. A. Anyway, we're in la. Deep pandemic. Everything's closed. Caleb and I would do this thing where we. You and I would drive around just kind of aimlessly.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's all there was to do. Yep. And we would drive from the Valley to weho to fucking Inglewood. We would just drive the city of la.

[Chance Nichols]

Yep. And just look at the buildings that were closed and be like, that looks like a fun place to visit someday. That. That looks like we could. We could really have some fun in there. Oh, I want to try that restaurant. If they make it. God, I hope they make it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Highways are empty.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, highways are empty.

[Caleb Hearon]

We were getting from North Hollywood to Silver Lake in, like, seven minutes.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy. And there was something you had started to have, like, you know, successes, and, like, things were starting to cook for. For you a little bit. And I was still very much spinning my wheels, like, career wise and, like, just trying to push a rock up a hill that I didn' know what hill it was. And you said you Were like, I can't wait to figure out what the thing you and I work on together is. I don't know what it is yet. I don't think it's a sketch show. I don't think it's a standup tour. I don't know what it is, but I think it'll be special when we figure it out. And I heard that as you're gonna have to wait for a while. I was just like, okay, that's fine.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, I felt an energy from you, I think, since college that was like, come on, man. Why aren't we doing stuff together?

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I did feel like, you know, it worked out. So maybe I was right, but maybe I was wrong. Who knows? But I felt like we just never had the idea.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I felt like we were going to force it, and then we were gonna force something that would make both of us resent each other. And I. I just felt every time we would talk about doing something, I was like, this is not it. Like, we would have the wrong thing, the wrong idea, and it never felt right. And I genuinely. I mean, obviously, now we know I meant it. Yeah. But. Yeah. So anyway, you heard that and were kind of like, fuck this guy.

[Chance Nichols]

No, I didn't. Yeah, I said, fuck this guy. I don't want to be his friend. Twitter videos are dumb. Fuck human resources, all that stuff. No, I. No, I heard that, and I was like, I genuinely do believe, like, in the moment. I was like, you know, I am very impatient. So I was like, no, I want it now. I want it now. Let's go pitch something now. But I was also like, I think he might be right. Like, you know, a good thing. Wait, you know, because I'd seen you'd done projects with friends before, even just, like, small ones in Chicago for no money or whatever. And I'd seen how, like, rushing into them might not be the best thing if it's not the good idea. Whatever. Kind of like what you were saying. So we just kind of just remained just friends, no work, anything for years. And then something came up to where we were at a lunch near my house here in la, and we were eating wings. And you just got, like, a wild look in your eye.

[Caleb Hearon]

Hey, folks, if you're eating with me.

[Chance Nichols]

This man loves his chicken wings.

[Caleb Hearon]

If you're eating with me, there's a 90% chance we're going somewhere that has chicken wings, just in case I decide I need them.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. What is it about chicken wings that captures you?

[Caleb Hearon]

So it just works, the whole thing Works. They're delicious. They're not impossible to get wrong, but they're pretty hard to get wrong. You can trust them from a lot of places. My mom worked at bars when I was growing up.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And she would bring chicken wings home. They just are filling, and they never upset my stomach, which is so funny. I think that's a food that, like, sometimes does upset people. Oh, yeah. Chicken wings always, always, always work for me.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I love them.

[Chance Nichols]

I love them. Despite. I cracked a tooth on a chicken wing bone with you. Yeah, it was. It was the chicken wings you ordered for us after I quit that job after one day, which we could tell that story later. Getting through the podcast. We were eating these wings, and I like this. This is fun.

[Caleb Hearon]

I know I do it sometimes. It is actually really smooth and fun and playing with the way that the cord is entangled in there.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, goodness.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, welcome. Wel.

[Chance Nichols]

The couch, brother. I am just in a sensory. I am in a bathtub of sensory happiness. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Have fun with it.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Where was I? Oh, right, the podcast. And you got a wild look in your eye, and you were like. You had your little wing, and you.

[Caleb Hearon]

Were like, I don't know if I had a wild look in your eye.

[Chance Nichols]

Wild look in your eye. You were touching my hand and you were like, hey, brother, now, this wasn't the scene at all. But because I do, people actually want to know this. You're like, what do you think it would take if I bought a couple cameras and some mics and some light stuff? What do you think it would take, like, to make a podcast? And I was like, oh, I know exactly what. And we started just talking logistical things and whatnot. I was like, maybe we don't have to buy it. We could rent some stuff. I don't know. And I was just like, do you want to do a podcast? Because you'd done a podcast before and had stopped, and by all means, by all accounts, I thought you would never want to do a podcast again.

[Caleb Hearon]

I wasn't sure if I would, because I thought with Shelby, like, with keeping records, I thought we had a great formula. Like, Shelby and I had a good rapport. We liked the content. I thought the keeping records, like, I thought the golden records element of it. I still think it was a great frame for a show. I think it was a great idea for a show, and I loved it, and I liked our guests. I just. I fell out of love with it, and I didn't. It didn't do what I needed it to do. And partially that's because I didn't put enough into it. And also partially, I think, like, I didn't. I wasn't clear on my goals. I. I wanted to. I would have quit that podcast to do pretty much anything else.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Just because I wanted other. I wanted to be. I wanted. What's the word I'm looking for? I wanted, like, validity.

[Chance Nichols]

Sure.

[Caleb Hearon]

From the industry. I wanted, like, writers rooms, and I wanted credits, and I wanted stuff like that. And that was all so much more important to me. And then. Yeah. Freedom. Freedom became more important to me. And now that's why a podcast makes a lot of sense. But you were saying.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. And that's ultimately what. After that first meeting, you know, I went and I thought up stuff, and there was a real spark between both of us where it was just like, I came over to your house. We had, like, a long list of, like, potential names for the show, like, potential guest pitches. We sat there, like, I think our first meeting ever outside of the wing place. That's where we came up with, like, what if we did a true or false segment? What if we did, you know, the idea of truth? What could that mean? Like, that's so true. With Kayla Perrin or get to the true. You know, just all this, like, this beautiful creative energy between us that I loved. Cause I felt like we hadn't had that in so long. And it was like, even in that moment, I was, like, so happy. Even if the show was a success or not. Cause I was like, oh, we're back. We get to do something again. Like, we used to throw all these shows no one ever saw in Chicago and in college, and, you know, just the bits that are just for us, too. Like, I felt like we had kind of lost a little bit of that and so, like, in creating this podcast. And then it got to the point where, like, oh, shit, we actually have to do this. Like, we signed some stuff, and we've got a studio, and we're gonna actually go out and we're gonna do this. And we made it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. It's crazy. Well, it's also was this perfect. Like, you had this whole love of podcasting and, like, Internet stuff that you had developed these skills. You had gone off and worked for a bunch of YouTubers, and you had an actual love for it. I don't have a big love for it. I don't love the Internet. I don't care much about YouTube. Like, that's just my reality. I don't sit or. I don't watch YouTube. I don't think about YouTube. I know my friends who do YouTube and I like their stuff. But you had this whole. It was this clicking into place of like, I go on other. I was going on other people's podcasts for years and. And doing great episodes of their show and they would love it and their fans would like it, and then they would ask me back and everyone was saying, why don't you have a podcast? And everyone in the whole entire world and all 8 billion people were saying, why don't you have a podcast?

[Chance Nichols]

They're all. They were tears in their eyes.

[Caleb Hearon]

Everyone's. Everyone's saying, sir, sir, please have a podcast.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, my God. Pounding on the wal.

[Caleb Hearon]

You're too funny, you're too gay. They will kill you.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, you're charming. You're such a conversationalist. Oh, my God.

[Caleb Hearon]

Sir, please. Your drip too swaggy.

[Chance Nichols]

Ooh, your lips, your lips, the way they move. The algorithm loves it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Interesting that you tapped into my lips because that actually is one of my things. But yeah, it was this perfect combination of something you genuinely loved doing and it's why I asked you and something that I was interested in and maybe good at. And I think I told you when we started, I was like, dude, I gotta be honest with you. I'm not cash rich right now. I can pay you 75 bucks a month. Yeah. I was like, if it make the second it makes any money, I will pay you better than that. But I was like, from the outset, I am losing a bunch of money. And I think I bought you a new laptop.

[Chance Nichols]

You did.

[Caleb Hearon]

I was like, I'll buy you a new computer because you need one. And I can do that. I can put that on my credit card and then I will give you like 75 bucks a month. And that's all I can offer.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Luckily for you, that didn't last very long.

[Chance Nichols]

It didn't last very long because I also little thing about what's going on in my life during that. You're right. So I had gone off and where I found my way into like a career or like quote unquote success in this business is working on YouTube channels. I was in writers rooms for various YouTubers. I got my start with this guy named roomie. Roomie official on YouTube. He's a Swedish music reviewer. Basically, I was writing sketches for his ad reads and that spiraled into a bunch of other stuff like Mr. Beast Erak, meat Canyon, stuff like that, which I'm super proud of and happy with for the most part. Some of it wasn't great. A lot of it was good, though. And it was also fun to be creative and working in something and seeing, like, oh, this video that I helped write got 100 million views. Views, yeah. That's kind of cool. But it was coming at a point where I had just one of the writers rooms I was in ended kind of abruptly, and I had gone back into falling into my, like, safety net job doing customer service for the Second City in Chicago, the legendary. I was selling improv classes and tickets to improv shows in Chicago from my house in la.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

And. And they fired me. They let me go.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, and they might have been right, too, because there was a period. Can I say this? Of. I mean, that job's over.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

There was a period of time there where we were recording the show. And so Chance would just be like, I need to be at all the records, but I can't take off from my job. And so you would just, like, decline everyone's calls?

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, I would.

[Caleb Hearon]

He would decline customer service calls from the records of the podcast.

[Chance Nichols]

I'd be producing the show from my work laptop, and I would, like, see a call coming in, and I would decline it. And then I would, like, chat to all my co workers and be like, sorry, guys, my Internet's down, or something. Like, how could you send this message? I go, don't ask questions.

[Caleb Hearon]

Don't worry about it. Bye, bye.

[Chance Nichols]

Bye, bye, bye, bye. Nothing bad. Nothing bad. All good.

[Caleb Hearon]

So they might have been right to give at the end.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, well. And you know, that place is that place. And they were very good to me for the time I was there. And then I did kind of unceremoniously get the boot out at just, you know, it was not a great time because this YouTube job had ended. The podcast was still in its infancy where I was making no money. We weren't. The show was making no money. It was so new.

[Caleb Hearon]

You were making no money. I was losing money.

[Chance Nichols]

You were spending money. Yeah. You were hemorrhaging money. And then, like, a bunch of crazy personal stuff was happening too, and I was really, like. Like that. Like, early March 2023. Would it have been 2024? 2024? Yeah. I don't know.

[Caleb Hearon]

Years.

[Chance Nichols]

2024 was just, like, such a tumultuous time for me. And I was like, this has to work. Like, this podcast thing has to work, because if it doesn't, I truly don't know what the fuck I'm gonna do. And it did.

[Caleb Hearon]

And it is working for now.

[Chance Nichols]

It is working for now. It is working for now, what's that mean?

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm not planning on leaving it, sure. But you never know. You know, it's funny. Like, it's. I would have never imagined if you had asked me one and a half years ago if I thought I was gonna do a podcast. Well, I went through such a. Coming back into deciding to do a podcast, I went through such a stupid round of. No offense if any of the execs who I talked to are listening, but good fucking God, these people. I mean, some of them are cool and some of them aren't, but they're just so. They're so visionless. So many of these people, they're so visionless. And even, like, I remember there was one podcast exec when I was pitching the idea of me having a show. I was honestly. And I'm so glad none of it worked out, but I was going out to companies pitching for me to get, like, a minimum guarantee deal, which I had had on keeping records. We had a very generous minimum guarantee deal from Head Gum that they were not recouping on. I'm probably still losing money off that deal. But I. I was out trying to get a minimum guarantee deal because I was like, if a podcast can just reliably bring me, like, 2,000 bucks a month, that's good enough in the background, like, I can. I can keep working on other creative stuff that, like, pays the rent, whatever, whatever. But I remember one of these meetings, an exec asked me what I thought of the show. And just to give you a scope of the kind of people I was having to chat with, they. They were like, what do you think of the show? I was like, you know, I want to talk to, like, I will, of course, talk to some famous people, but I want to talk to people I really give a fuck about. I want to talk to comedians that no one has necessarily heard of. And then I'll. Yeah, I'll talk to, you know, and then I mentioned a friend of mine who is quite famous, and I was like, I'll do both. And they were like, really good job on that name drop. Like, kind of like making fun of me. And I was like, it's not a name drop. That's a person I'm friends with. You fucking psycho.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, it's Carrot Top. Everybody loves Carrot Top also.

[Caleb Hearon]

What are you talking. What. You asked me who I'm gonna have on the show, and I told you, right? It was a lot of meetings like that, and then them being like, yeah, we could. We wouldn't give you a minimum guarantee. We Wouldn't do video for you. And I was like, you are, you are risk averse, cowardly, visionless people that I just don't understand how you're even in business.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, it's the last whispers of old media trying to grasp desperately at the coattails of new media. And I see it all the time. I see these people who it's like, and they aren't even necessarily old people, people that are relatively still young and have a lot of career ahead of them are so short sighted because they're like, no, the system is this, the system was established in the twenties with the talkies. And this is how a deal works and this is how an advertisement works. And it's just like, no, you fucking moron. Like more people watch like a 19 year old boy doing backflips in his room with his phone than watch Saturday Night Live now. You know what I mean? And people just don't want to believe that it scares them because they're like, no, no, no, I sacrificed so much for this specific system and you're telling me that it's all blown up and I have to learn a new one.

[Caleb Hearon]

You. And by the way, some of the people that we talked, that I talked with about the show were cool and got it and it just wasn't the right thing. And that's, that's nothing against them, but there is a, there is an element, like I. Most the people that we met with about me doing this show before I ended up doing it independently with you and then eventually, you know, signing with Headgum, who gets it more than any of those people do the, that they were like, it'll never work unless every guest is somebody famous.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I was like, I think you're wrong and I think you're boring and I think that you have no vision. And the fact that you, the only reason you're allowed to be a gatekeeper in this field is because you have capital and you have nothing other than that. And I know you like to tell yourself that you have more than that, that you have taste and you have, you know, you have all these great, you're like breaking people and finding up and comers. None of it's true. You have capital and that's it.

[Chance Nichols]

Yep.

[Caleb Hearon]

And that's okay. They can keep having capital. But the, yeah, the number of people that told us that the show, the way we wanted to do it wouldn't work is just very funny to me.

[Chance Nichols]

And it's even funnier now.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, and I have no idea if this is Interesting to anybody this part, But I find it interesting just because I'm like, I think so many people who listen to our show are creative in some way or on the Internet or wondering if they could do this, that or the other thing. And I'm like, yeah, I am so fucking glad that I didn't get a minimum guarantee deal from some podcast network. And they made offers, by the way. People made offers, but the offers were not appropriate.

[Chance Nichols]

No.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I'm glad that I didn't take one of them and just did it myself. And if it's a lesson to anybody who's listening, I'm like, I hope you. If you're thinking about making something, you'll just go do it.

[Chance Nichols]

Do it. Yeah. And a lot of those offers, not for nothing, we can cut this. Wanted me out of it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Well, they sure did.

[Chance Nichols]

Which I didn't. That wasn't fun to hear, but I understand because they hire people to do what I was doing. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I told them to off. Yeah, yeah. They. They. That was part of. Yeah, that was part of a couple of the deals is that they were going to offer. They were going to offer a minimum guarantee. That was very low. And they were kind of like, we don't need. Thank you for your service, Mr. Nichols.

[Chance Nichols]

Right.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. You can be on your way.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Well, which we didn't do.

[Chance Nichols]

I know.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm open to it.

[Chance Nichols]

You're open to.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. If anybody. If any of those companies want to circle back with a bigger number, Chance is still on the chopping block.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, good.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

Good. Okay. I've got a lot of transferable skills now.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

You know what I mean? I can't.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's why I don't feel bad about it. You'll be fine.

[Chance Nichols]

Good, good.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. You'll land on your feet.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to go do a podcast about theme parks in Branson, Missouri.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think about this all the time. When I fire you, you're going to be fine.

[Chance Nichols]

Sure.

[Caleb Hearon]

Because you've learned so much. It's like I've given gift of, like, letting you learn so much and make a living on this show up until the point that you get fired? You're going to be fine when I let you go.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Will you say nice things about me to people? Like, will you give me a kind word in the street?

[Caleb Hearon]

Genuinely? Yes.

[Chance Nichols]

Wow. Really?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I'll tell. I'll call everybody and say, this guy, you know.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Say, okay, go ahead, do one.

[Caleb Hearon]

Also, I'll chance I'm being dead serious when I fire you soon.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I am going to call everyone who works in town that you want me to. You tell me you're up for a job at iHeart. You tell me you're up for a job at iHeart. I'm gonna call the folks at iHeart and I'm say, Chance Nichols.

[Chance Nichols]

You know, he brings dollars.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's. I say, that guy.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And stuff like that. And I'm happy to do that.

[Chance Nichols]

Is there any specifics you'd like to go into, just so I can know? Like, when I have my big meeting, it's like, this is what they know about me. This is how they know. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, I'm gonna call them. I'm gonna say Chance is one of the guys. Like, he. Like he does it.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. He eats. He has all the big dinners, he gets all the big coffees with all the right movers and shakers. You know, it's like a dinner culture here in la. People love to go to.

[Caleb Hearon]

I want to con you for that, but it really is a dinner culture. I want to con you for that, for the bit. But LA is a dinner culture.

[Chance Nichols]

And I'm at them.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's a patio dinner culture.

[Chance Nichols]

I'm at dinner.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

I'm sitting at the Tam o' Shanter having some burnt ends.

[Caleb Hearon]

You lost it. You don't like Tam O Shantor? I do, but that's not what the people. You have to pick. If you want to talk about an LA dinner culture, you have to pick a place that has a patio positioned on a busy enough street that everyone can be seen.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

You have to go to. You have to have dinner at Saffy's. Because here's the thing about Saffy's, though. Most people are going there because I think that they want to be seen. And I'm going there because they have a lobster skewer that's transcendent.

[Chance Nichols]

Ooh.

[Caleb Hearon]

And they had a crab fritter for a while. That genuinely changed my life. Food there actually quite good. But, yeah, you have to go to Angelini, Osterio or whatever the fuck.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

So that you can be seen dining on the sidewalk in Fairfax.

[Chance Nichols]

And when I do that, and you know, when, after a long, illustrious career here on this show, when it comes to an end that I'm sure I'll be consulted on, there'll be a grace period and, you know, it'll be like a peaceful transition. I think the next step for me is I'd really like to direct and develop reality television.

[Caleb Hearon]

Is that true? No, I was like, I'm about to be so mean to you. I was like, let me know if I should be so mean to you right now.

[Chance Nichols]

I've been watching so much of it, you know, Like, I know you don't particularly care for most reality tv, but I've fallen into Below deck.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

Have you heard about Below Deck?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

Okay. Do you have any questions for me about it?

[Caleb Hearon]

No, I don't have any questions. I think, look, we've entered this era over the last couple years where people have decided that it's like a swinging thing where people decided actually liking trash is high culture. And I just. I'm not buying it.

[Chance Nichols]

Sure.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't think that liking trash is high culture.

[Chance Nichols]

Well, below deck isn't trash. It's super yachts. It's wealthy people going on vacation.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's wealthy trash having dinner on a boat.

[Chance Nichols]

And that's the Ozarks.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's the Ozarks, baby.

[Chance Nichols]

And I know all about that. Yeah, I love that.

[Caleb Hearon]

No, I just don't. It's no judgment, but I just. Reality. The resurgence in reality TV in general and people going, oh, actually, it's actually really. It's actually about conflict and it's actually about resolutions and communication styles.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's actually three women fighting over drinks.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And that's. Okay. Three women can be very fascinating.

[Chance Nichols]

It's true.

[Caleb Hearon]

But let's not pretend that it's something more than what it is.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. I don't think 1000 pound sisters is high art.

[Caleb Hearon]

No, I think that's like. I think that's like the grotesquery.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think the. The fat. The fat shows, the hoarder shows. It's all. Yeah, it's like. It's like sideshow at the carnival type. It's very basic.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, yeah, well. And they try to package it as like. No, that's not what this is about. It's about a beautiful family. And it's like, why are you calling the show the amount that these people weigh?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. The show's not called Beautiful Family, I'll tell you that. It's called Big Fat Bitch who Can't get out of Bed.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, it is. When you watch these shows, it is like, I can't believe they agreed to be filmed in this, like, moment, this very personal moment that's happening.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. It doesn't make any sense to me. Me. But low deck, huh?

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. It's fun. It's just like, you know, it's. It's a job. It's people working on a yacht. It's like Hot. Hot. Like boat people that want their career to be boat, just going up to each other and, like kissing hot boat people. It's. It's like a hot boat boy at a hot boat girl. They're both like. Like, one is like a steward, the other one is like a deckhand and he's Scottish and he's like, right, you want to folk? And she's like, oh, my God, I'm from California. And they have sex. They have beautiful sex and they don't show any of it. Obviously, this is bravo. But you hear it. You hear it in the other room. You hear the goose, the squeals and the sex happening elsewhere. And it's magical because then it cuts to the captain and he's on Duolingo trying to learn his girlfriend's language Here.

[Caleb Hearon]

You okay? I do think. Do you know how often when I'm having sex that I think about how cool it is?

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I can't imagine how cool it must feel when hot people do it.

[Chance Nichols]

Could you?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, when like conventionally hot, like, 23 year olds both find each other and they fuck, I can't imagine how cool they feel. No, I feel cool doing my thing.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Every time I get laid, there is at least some point during the middle of it that I go, God, this is neat. Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

What a treat is this?

[Chance Nichols]

Sometimes I'll do this move. I'll be like, ew.

[Caleb Hearon]

Ew. You, like, crack your neck like a little readjust. Ew, Chance.

[Chance Nichols]

Ew.

[Caleb Hearon]

Virginia's hiding her face.

[Chance Nichols]

It's fun. Ew. I'm not ashamed of it. Oh.

[Caleb Hearon]

Good night. That made me ill. Yeah, well, you.

[Chance Nichols]

Know, hey, different strokes for different folks.

[Caleb Hearon]

The idea of you having sex and going.

[Chance Nichols]

Like a pilot that just landed a plane.

[Caleb Hearon]

Virginia is cowering in the corner right now.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, God. No.

[Chance Nichols]

This is what happens when I'm on this side of the camera. Things get steamy. Casey, we gotta get some windshield wipers for these lenses. God, the crowd's roaring. There's. There's about 50, 30,000 people in here.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, man, that made my stomach turn.

[Chance Nichols]

Imagine how I feel.

[Caleb Hearon]

But, yeah, the idea of having sex every time makes me feel pretty neat.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Guys, for real. When was the last time you needed to go to a doctor, but you pushed it off? You made an excuse like, it'll heal on its own or I'm too busy, or maybe I don't even know which doctor to go to. I'm always doing stuff like that every day. I think we've all been There. Booking a doctor appointment can just feel so daunting. But thanks to ZocDoc, there's no reason to delay. They make it so easy to find and book a doctor who's right for you. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than a hundred thousand doctors across every specialty and you don't have to meet with all of them. It's not like you don't have to meet with all 100,000 doctors. That's not what that is is from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care and more. You can filter for doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for any medical needs you may have, and have highly rated reviews by verified patients. Once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a viz. That's how we say visit in the business. Appointments made through ZOC Doc also happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours a book. You can even score same day appointments. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com so true to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's zocdoc.com so true. Zocdoc.com so true. Today's episode is brought to you by Alma. Alma's on a mission to simplify access to high quality, affordable mental health care. Alma has built a community of over 20,000 diverse therapists. Therapists on the platform offer both in person and virtual care. While online tools and resources can be a useful starting point or supplement, human relationships are an irreplaceable part of mental health care. ALMA can help you find someone who will work with you on your specific needs and goals and support you in making real progress in improving your mental health. Usually when I want to make progress on improving my mental health, I just had stop hanging out with my mother in law for a little bit. You know what I mean? Chance all jokes guys. We love our advertisers for real. We would never make light. Alma also makes things real simple to find a therapist. Okay. Some people turn to impersonal online resources like forums or chatbots because they think finding a therapist is expensive and difficult. Okay, the director, he makes it easy to find therapists that take your insurance and meet your unique needs with filters like gender, race, therapeutic approach and more. Normally, when you're filtering by those things. It's weird, but when you're doing it with a therapist buddy, that can be really important. Know the cost of your sessions up front using Alma's Cost Estimator tool. At Alma, 97% of therapists accept insurance, including United, Aetna, Cigna and more. Better with People people Better with Alma. Visit hello Alma.com so true. To get started and schedule a free consultation today, that's hello A l M a dot com S O T R U E this episode is sponsored by our friends at Aura Frames. Mother's Day is upon us, folks. Don't get caught buying the same old gifts this year. Like sweaters, candles are heaven forbid, another bathrobe. Your mother deserves better than all that. Name the best digital photo frame by wirecutter or our frames are guaranteed to mix things up. This year, Mother's Day should be a day to show your mom just how much you appreciate all the simple things she's done for you, like buying shoes or giving you the gift of life. Ever heard of it? And a brand new way to display all her favorite photos is a great way to do just that. Aura Frames come with unlimited storage so you can share as many photos as you want from your phone to mom's Aura frame. Not only will she be grateful it's not another sweater, she'll also love that an aura frame means she gets to see more of you. And don't even worry about having to wrap this gift yourself itself. Every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag. Aura has a great deal for Mother's Day. For a limited time, listeners can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get 35 off plus free shipping on their best selling Carver mat frame. That's a U R A frames.com promo code. So true. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions do, of course, as always apply.

[Chance Nichols]

The first time I ever felt maybe cool in my entire life. It was my freshman year of high school and it was the homecoming dance and I hadn't even heard of grinding or freaking as one version of it. And this was 2009, 2010 school year. Folks were grinding and going nuts and me and my little freshman football friends, we came to the dance and a group of sophomore volleyball players descended on us and they started doing the sexy grind, dancing. And me and my friend turned to each other and we were just like. Like our faces were lit up and we high fived. We high fived whilst dancing on this dance floor to like, like down or something like that. Baby, are you down?

[Caleb Hearon]

Down, down, down, down, down.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Great song.

[Chance Nichols]

And we high fived. You didn't. I don't think you liked my description of me feeling cool.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's. It's hard to care about because you have to understand what you're asking me to get excited by. And I'm feeling so happy to have you on the show right now because with a normal guest, I'd have to like feign interest in that. But what you're asking me to care about is two freshmen and high school boys getting grinded on by volleyball, sophomores and high fiving each other about.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

It is kind of antithetical to anything I would ever care about.

[Chance Nichols]

Sure.

[Caleb Hearon]

But of course I'm happy that you felt cool.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I thank you for sharing and bringing your truth to the show in many ways.

[Chance Nichols]

Yes.

[Caleb Hearon]

But yeah, if you're clocking in a disinterest in me, it is just because that's the kind of thing I've spent my whole life actively not caring about.

[Chance Nichols]

How many Tap out shirts do you think I owned?

[Caleb Hearon]

I struggle to imagine I got the.

[Chance Nichols]

Number in my head. Would you like to guess?

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, you guys were poor.

[Chance Nichols]

Yes.

[Caleb Hearon]

So I'm going to start there. And I know at least a couple of them you cut off for 2A days in football.

[Chance Nichols]

That's absolutely right.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm thinking Tap out shirts for chance in high school. Nixon, Missouri, 2009. 2010.

[Chance Nichols]

Shout out Eagles Go Eags.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm thinking you must have had 14 of them.

[Chance Nichols]

That's. That's a little high. I had nine.

[Caleb Hearon]

See, at 14, I was like, I felt that 20 would be crazy on the money spectrum. Right. And nine is still a lot.

[Chance Nichols]

It is a lot. But I did. There was a. There was a store in the Battlefield Mall in Springfield, Missouri that was half a mma, like apparel store and half like a hookah store. And it was ran by a guy that went to the same. I went to an MMA gym for like five years and this guy ran it and he gave me discounts on everything. It was all like second and third run, like, tap out stuff. This is when Tap out was really popular. And I loved wearing it. I loved. I thought it was so cool until I had somebody tell me, oh, it was. It was my youth pastor. My youth pastor told me, do you know what I see when I see you wearing that shirt? And I go, no, what? He goes, I see a guy that's asking the world, hey, fight me. And I don't think that's you. And I was like, you're right.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's weirdly helpful and poignant.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Nice. Nice of the youth pastor to bring that up.

[Chance Nichols]

It was really nice of him. And I stopped. I kind of stopped wearing them after that. And I think history will show that I was correct to stop wearing tap out shirts.

[Caleb Hearon]

I want to mold some young people.

[Chance Nichols]

You do?

[Caleb Hearon]

I want to mold some young people directly like that.

[Chance Nichols]

What kind?

[Caleb Hearon]

I just feel, you know, my little cousins, I'm leaving my mark on them. I'm getting. I'm getting my little thoughts into their head.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

You know, they. They say things sometimes and I go, you know, when you say things like that, I don't think it sounds very nice. Or I get to say, you know, that they're not mean kids, though. But I. I get to. I get to say little ideas for them. I get to tell them little things I think about the world. I think that they probably will grow up and have a moment like this where they say, you know, my. My cool older cousin once told me this thing and it changed the way I think about things.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I probably won't know what those things are until later in life, if ever.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

But I'd like to. I'd like to mold some of the youth.

[Chance Nichols]

Have you had a moment where you're looking at like. Like it doesn't even have to be your cousins. Cause they're quite young. But even like just a younger person and you say something and you see in their eyes, they're going to remember this for the rest of their life.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't know.

[Chance Nichols]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

I talk to a lot of people that. A lot of people I talk to that are come up and say they're like fans of the show or whatever. They're quite a bit younger than me. A lot of 21 year olds. And I will sometimes be interacting with them and think you are not accustomed to talking to an adult. Like, I will say something. I will say something not mean, but like assured and confident.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And. And honest. You know, they'll be like. They'll be like, sorry, I hate to be weird. And I'm like, and yet you are right. You know, And I'm kidding. But they're so. They're so shaken by that.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. That I'm like, oh, fuck, I forgot. You're like a child.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. That is funny. I love whenever you get recognized and I'm around because I fall into this thing where I just start smiling because I'm like, what's true is I'm like, God damn it, we're late for lunch or whatever it is. And it's like, they're always so sweet. We've never had. At least when I'm with you, like somebody, I'm like, whoa. This, like, back the fuck off. They're always very sweet, very gracious. And I always just stand there and go. I'm just, like, smiling. And when they leave, I say out loud, thank you.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, you do.

[Chance Nichols]

I don't know why. I just go, thank you. Thanks, guys. Thank you.

[Caleb Hearon]

You grabbed my forearm. Guide me away.

[Chance Nichols]

You just got to meet your favorite comedian. Thank you. Talk soon.

[Caleb Hearon]

God, I had a bad one recently. I was walking into Skylight Books in Los Feliz, and this dumb, straight buffoon, okay, just yelled. Sorry. He was.

[Chance Nichols]

It was me.

[Caleb Hearon]

He just yelled. He just yelled over to me from, like, five feet away. He goes, aren't you that funny guy?

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, fuck.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I. Without looking at him and not breaking my gate, I just went, if you say so, and kept walking. What is that? Aren't you that funny guy? Oh, my God, that's so useless. You don't even know who I am, and you're bothering me just like you're.

[Chance Nichols]

Walking down the street. Someone just points. TikTok.

[Caleb Hearon]

Basically, it's TikTok.

[Chance Nichols]

Look.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's basically that. Where I'm like, you don't even know who I am. You don't. There's nothing. There's no reason you should need to say anything to me, right?

[Chance Nichols]

That's so funny.

[Caleb Hearon]

If you had been like. If you. If you had been like, oh, my God, I love your stuff. Could I take a picture? I'd have been like, of course. But aren't you that funny guy?

[Chance Nichols]

Why aren't you that funny guy?

[Caleb Hearon]

Go to prison.

[Chance Nichols]

Dance for me, clown.

[Caleb Hearon]

Dance, clown. Yeah, that is so. But that's your guys culture.

[Chance Nichols]

It is. We love to call people out. We love to shout. We love to.

[Caleb Hearon]

What do you think we're gonna do about men? Let me take this opportunity. You're a straight guy.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, boy.

[Caleb Hearon]

You're a straight guy.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

One of the straightest I know. Oh, hell yeah. Okay. And aside from kind of your tastes, the musical theater throws a real curve ball in there. But you're a straight guy, and you're around a lot of straight guys, and we're from the same part of the country. What. What are we gonna do about y' all?

[Chance Nichols]

I think exposure therapy is the number one thing that could fix these boys, our men and boys. I think so much of the. The nastiness and the, the. The bad energy, the bad takes, the bad outfits. All these things all stems from the fact that, like, they've never met another person that's different from them. You know what I mean? I was so fortunate to like, like, like you said, the musical theater of it all. Doing like theater growing up and whatnot and meeting gay people, meeting like lesbians. Meeting people who even back then were like, I don't know about my gender. Like, like just engaging with that as normaly fixed a lot of the weird prejudices that I, I came. Like, my factory settings were like, what's going on? Oh, no, that's not normal. This is going to be on the news. This, you know, like, whatever.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, you effectively. You effectively like Final Destination, your way out of becoming the guy you were destined to become.

[Chance Nichols]

That's correct.

[Caleb Hearon]

You were supposed to be like a Trump supporting deadbeat dad in Missouri.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I think my. I also have that within me.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And what happened to me was that I'm gay.

[Chance Nichols]

Right.

[Caleb Hearon]

And so that just took me a whole other direction. Yeah, but was it theater for you?

[Chance Nichols]

I think it was theater. I think just like, that's the thing is I think it was Pete Holmes said this on his podcast about his mom. His mom was saying something about, like, like, oh, I don't know, this about gay people, whatever. And Pete was like, mom, you've never met a gay person like that you know of. Like, you've never met an out gay person. Why do you have this perspective on them? Like, well, it's just what I hear on tv. Like, some people's worldview is so crafted by these, like, outlets that have an agenda and whatnot. And as some. There was a stretch there for like almost a decade where I didn't not live with a gay person the entire time. I had gay roommates most of my 20s, and let me tell you, you were one of them.

[Caleb Hearon]

Shout out.

[Chance Nichols]

And there have been other ones that varying degrees of loud in the bedroom. And it sounds like you fellas are having a good time in there. And there were a couple times I gave a couple taps on the wall like, hey, good, good work.

[Caleb Hearon]

There's just two guys in there going, Virginia has covered.

[Chance Nichols]

It's two guys in there going, oh, oh.

[Caleb Hearon]

Chance and I got on this really funny kick on tour where we were being like, being just doing like some kind of like, gotcha moment. Just being like, just being like, if your mother says so. Ow. That guy. That guy has like a mobster.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

But Chance, stop fucking around.

[Chance Nichols]

Okay?

[Caleb Hearon]

Why did you turn out to be one of the. One of the straight guys who's down for the cause? What are we going to do to our men and boys to make them more like you?

[Chance Nichols]

I think I.

[Caleb Hearon]

In some ways, I had a good.

[Chance Nichols]

In some ways, I had good family members. I have some bad family members, but I have some good family members that were very pivotal to just, like, me understanding. Because I've been like this my entire life. I've been, like, fucking, like, that sort of thing, which you hate. And I'm sure the audience will now learn to hate, hate. But I've just learned to hate. You all are gonna learn to hate me by the end of this. No, but I've just always had, like, kind of a high RPM that I do stifle whenever I'm behind the cameras for this, where I'm just like, nope, that's not what my role is. My role is to laugh and take notes. But, like, you know, I was always so wild and rambunctious and stuff. I was not easy to be around as a child. I would, like, recite whole episodes of SpongeBob from memory to people. People thought I was annoying kids, teachers thought I was annoying.

[Caleb Hearon]

The community could only agree that I was a nu.

[Chance Nichols]

That's correct. I was.

[Caleb Hearon]

I.

[Chance Nichols]

You know, and I found early. Early on in my life, a lot of the kids that were nice to me ended up being, like, queer kids, like, later on. And they were very much. They probably didn't even know, obviously, in, like, elementary school what that meant. They didn't have language for it. They were just like. I don't know. I think they saw in me somebody who also was like. People were kind of looking down their noses at. And I was getting sad because it was like, I'm just being myself. Like, you don't like the Tasmanian Devil in your second grade classroom? What's wrong? And, like, these, like, kids would just kind of like. There was a lot of. A lot of my recesses were walking around collecting rocks. You know what I mean? Like, walking around with a kid who is now, like, happily married to another man. And we would just, like, collect rocks and talk about, like, you know, I think Dragon Ball Z is about more than just the violence. And. And I think that's part of it is just, like, feeling a bit like an outcast, which is so lame for me to say as a straight white man, but, like, like, as a child. Everybody is so, like, nervous and, like, scared of what people think of them in school, especially their friends. The other. The cool Kids and, like, all that stuff. So a lot of it started there, and then honestly, it grew into having. I had a really great teacher. I had two great teachers in High School, Ms. Fleetwood and Mr. Townsend. They were the two theater teachers. And this was my, I think, freshman year of high school. We were having some sort of, like, spirited political debate in the class. And I still thought I was Republican at that point, even though almost none of my beliefs, like, really aligned with that stuff. And I was like, something, something, something. Someone said something. And I was like, well, you know, as a Republican, I think I can say hilarious. And Mr. Townsend, he just goes, ha. What? He's like, you're not a Republican. I was like, what do you mean? Yes, I am. That's how I feel. He goes, you don't have enough money to be a Republican. King.

[Caleb Hearon]

King. Fuck.

[Chance Nichols]

I think he's right.

[Caleb Hearon]

King.

[Chance Nichols]

And that was the first time I, like, cross examined myself in that way. I was like, you know what? What do I believe in? And what I came to, and I think this may be a piece of advice for our men and our boys is just learn how to be like, oh, okay. As simple as that. Just be able to be like, oh, okay, cool. To most people's things. When most people come to you and are like, this is who I am. This is what I'm about. This is how I identify whatever it is. Instead of your first instinct being, what?

[Caleb Hearon]

What?

[Chance Nichols]

No, it can't be.

[Caleb Hearon]

Why different? Why different? Why different?

[Chance Nichols]

That's not how this day is supposed to go. Why am I being confronted with change and a child Just go, oh, okay, cool. What kind of music do you like? You know what I mean? Like, the most interesting thing about a person I believe is not, like, what they're. You know, what they prefer in the bedroom, what they want to, like, get married to, all these things. I think it's a beautiful piece of your identity, and I love that about you. But I've never been this person that's like, because you feel this way or because this is how you identify or what you want to do that is an affront to how I feel, and I don't want any part of it. Yeah, I don't like that I feel.

[Caleb Hearon]

That way about straight people.

[Chance Nichols]

You do? Well, you keep me around.

[Caleb Hearon]

I have several straights in my life. It's hard. I keep them around mostly as an experiment. And also I'll need somewhere to hide probably pretty soon.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think I'm hoping that their house will have some sort of basement or something.

[Chance Nichols]

I'M a warm embrace.

[Caleb Hearon]

Pardon?

[Chance Nichols]

I'm like an island in a storm.

[Caleb Hearon]

What?

[Chance Nichols]

I wanna push you around. Oh, I will. Oh, I will.

[Caleb Hearon]

You knew how to get me. You knew how to get me. Put a little matchbox on.

[Chance Nichols]

I'll protect you when it all comes apart. But you think you can beat me up?

[Caleb Hearon]

I know that I can beat you up.

[Chance Nichols]

That's crazy.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

How do you think. How would you do it?

[Caleb Hearon]

I would come right. I would come right at you and put my arms around you and throw both of us to the ground. And then I would stay on top of you and elbow you in the head until you died.

[Chance Nichols]

That is a great strategy. And what you should do. What you don't know is I'm pretty quick, and I will sidestep you.

[Caleb Hearon]

You're not quick enough.

[Chance Nichols]

I'm kicking that your kneecap out and blowing out your knee. And then you're going to go to the ground, and I'm going to do the same. I'm just going to elbow until you. I won't kill you.

[Caleb Hearon]

If I'm on the ground, I'm grabbing your leg, I'm biting it very hard and breaking the skin, probably taking a chunk out. And then when you're. And then when you're screaming in pain, I'm punching your other knee into the wrong direction. And then you fall down, I'm rolling over on top of you, and I'm elbowing you in the head until you die.

[Chance Nichols]

Okay, that's awesome. Well, while you're biting my leg, I'm getting rock hard and I'm getting excited, and I go, you know what? I've got a level of adrenaline right now that. Yeah. And I know that's weird to say, but you know what? Maybe biting does it for me. And this is something that we're all learning about me right now. And I've got a kick of adrenaline.

[Caleb Hearon]

I bite Chance in his leg and he goes, oh.

[Chance Nichols]

And I'm. Well, I'm doing one of these. I'm wrapping around. I'm wrapping around your waist, and we're all. We're both going for a ride. I'm suplexing you over my shoulder through a glass coffee table.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm taking your shirt from the back and I'm pulling it over your face so you can't see. And I'm throwing. I'm throwing haymakers up under the shirt, destroying your face until you die. And then I'm throwing you on the ground. And if you're not dead yet, I'm kneeling on your chest over and over again. I'm just doing like this. And I'm like throwing knees into your chest. And you're going, please, sir, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. And then I'm elbowing you in the head some more.

[Chance Nichols]

You know what I'm doing in that? I'm not saying no, please sir, stop. I'm like, grab. I'm like trying to grab at you. I'm like gently touching like front of the legs, trying to grab at your wrists. I'm pathetic. I'm like clearly defeated. And I'm going, I didn't. I didn't want it to go this way. You mean so much to me. It's just like, I'm sorry for what I did and that I fucked up so bad. And all the while I'm grabbing a brick and I'm gonna smash your temple in. All right. And I win.

[Caleb Hearon]

We're doing the True or false segment. I think it's pretty clear that most of that's getting cut. Well, all right, you ready?

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, is this. Yes.

[Caleb Hearon]

Chance?

[Chance Nichols]

Yes.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm gonna read you. I'm doing things a little out of order to keep you on your toes.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, fuck.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if you think that what I just said is true or false. If you get 10 or more correct, you get to keep your job. Wow. If you get fewer than 10 correct.

[Chance Nichols]

Uh huh.

[Caleb Hearon]

This will be your final week of employment with the show.

[Chance Nichols]

Okay, let's do it.

[Caleb Hearon]

The tattoo on John Wick's back is fortis fortuna aduavat. Can't say it right.

[Chance Nichols]

Trust. True.

[Caleb Hearon]

That is true. Cats have more bones than humans.

[Chance Nichols]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. They have 250. We have 206 most. Death was originally supposed to play Al Pacino in the film Tropic Thunder. True, that is true. Catfish have scales.

[Chance Nichols]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

False. They have smooth barbel, covered skin.

[Chance Nichols]

I love barbell.

[Caleb Hearon]

The largest recorded tornado by width. Touchdown in Joplin, Missouri. Missouri.

[Chance Nichols]

I know. It was a big one, but the largest ever. True.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's false. It was in Oklahoma. Jack of Jack Daniels is short for Jasper. True, that is true. Quick Trip has locations in 17 states. True, that is true. Buffalo Wild Wings was founded in 1979.

[Chance Nichols]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

False. 1982. Your first date with Kara was at the Will Hoyt theater. What the fuck? Your first date with your long term girlfriend Kara was at the Will Hoyt theater.

[Chance Nichols]

So this is whoever. Virginia, thank you so much for this level of specificity. I have a note because that is technically false.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, we don't need notes.

[Chance Nichols]

It's false.

[Caleb Hearon]

It is false.

[Chance Nichols]

Okay, good. Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Is that the amc?

[Chance Nichols]

That's right.

[Caleb Hearon]

Okay. And you saw four movies and it was your birthday.

[Chance Nichols]

We met at the will. Hoyt. And yes, that's true.

[Caleb Hearon]

Nixon. Missouri city flag was updated in 2023.

[Chance Nichols]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. The dogwood is the state tr tree of Virginia.

[Chance Nichols]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. Also Missouri.

[Chance Nichols]

What?

[Caleb Hearon]

Nelly. The St. Louis rapper's legal name is Cornell Haynes.

[Chance Nichols]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

That is true. Your girlfriend Cara's astrological sign is Pisces.

[Chance Nichols]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

False.

[Chance Nichols]

It's cancer.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Jim Carrey is a U.S. citizen.

[Chance Nichols]

I mean, he's from Canada, but true.

[Caleb Hearon]

It is true. He has dual citizenship since 2004.

[Chance Nichols]

Wow.

[Caleb Hearon]

Missouri State is older than Mizzou.

[Chance Nichols]

False. False.

[Caleb Hearon]

It is false. How do you do?

[Chance Nichols]

You hear that, mama? I get to keep my job.

[Caleb Hearon]

That sucks. I really wanted to fire you.

[Chance Nichols]

Why?

[Caleb Hearon]

I just got what I thought. It'd be interesting for the plot. What's so true to you, Chance Nichols?

[Chance Nichols]

What's so true to me? God, I have to think about it for a while. No, I know.

[Caleb Hearon]

Chance. No. Chance, you haven't been losing sleep over this for a week and a half.

[Chance Nichols]

No, you're right. And just. Yeah. No, mine. So true.

[Caleb Hearon]

What do you think about anti anxiety medication?

[Chance Nichols]

This is what you asked me. Caleb asked me. We were at a, at an Arby's or. No, it was a Carl's Jr. In, like, Vancouver. On the road from Vancouver, so. And I was just sitting there, kind of sweating, and he was like, have you ever thought about taking medication?

[Caleb Hearon]

I also asked it to you in a hotel room in Portland.

[Chance Nichols]

You did?

[Caleb Hearon]

I've been bringing it up a lot, you might notice.

[Chance Nichols]

You have? I'll think about it.

[Caleb Hearon]

But what's your so true.

[Chance Nichols]

You know what's so true to me? People who walk their dogs off leash in public, like on a public street, are going to hell when they die.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. And hell's real. And they're going, that's right.

[Chance Nichols]

Hell's real. And they are going.

[Caleb Hearon]

Speak of that.

[Chance Nichols]

I don't care about. If it's a dog park, obviously have the dog off a leash. If it's a regular park and your dog's walking well behaved, and you want to play fetch or whatever, let it roam around. That's a different thing. I, I, this comes from a personal experience of mine when we were living in Chicago, I was walking down Broadway in Lakeview, and just some asshole had his dog off leash walking down, like, on the sidewalk, and another dog across the Way sitting at an outdoor like on the patio of an outdoor cafe, started barking and freaking out because they saw that dog. And the unleashed dog started barking too. And the owner's like, no, no, no. Unleashed dog runs across the street, gets hit by a bus. And that could have all been avoided if you had simply gone and clipped your dog to. Who are you impressing? Who is this for? That your dog is off leash? Do you think people are turning and going, holy shit, that person must be a really strict trainer. Oh my God, this is incredible.

[Caleb Hearon]

Wow.

[Chance Nichols]

What a man. What a woman.

[Caleb Hearon]

Don't touch your nipples. Don't touch your nipples while you do it. Virginia hit her face again.

[Chance Nichols]

It really just starts to happen.

[Caleb Hearon]

Virginia hit her face again.

[Chance Nichols]

But I'm just like. To what end? What are you getting out of this? That your dog. That you are making it unsafe for yourself, your animal and others.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I don't get it. Also if. Yeah. Your dog doesn't get to go everywhere. I'm sorry.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. Dogs.

[Caleb Hearon]

Your dog does not get to go everywhere. Your dog does not belong at this cafe. Take that dog home. Your dog does not. By the way, I say this sometimes and people act like, I hate dogs. I'm a dog lover. I love dogs. They do not need to be at dinner.

[Chance Nichols]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

And, and getting. And by the way, it's up that people get their non service animals registered as service animals. That is up and weird. And the fact that we act like it's not strange is really bizarre. Are to me it's very weird.

[Chance Nichols]

It's. It's ableist. Like it's crazy.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's ableist and it's trivializing people who actually need it. And I'm not even like that. Like I'm, I'm not even like living out like that.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

But it is weird that people have just been like, oh yeah, it's cool to trivialize people who actually need service animals. So you can bring your dog to dinner because you like hanging out with him. Yep. That I can't believe people are getting away with that.

[Chance Nichols]

Me neither. And that's the thing is surface animal dog, they're at work. They are. Well, they are trained to just sit there and do their job. Your shaky little fucking falling apart chihuahua that is. That screams anytime it's looked at. At should not be at this coffee shop.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. So there should be. You know how when you're getting on a plane there's a little thing that says if your bag doesn't fit in this, you can't bring it on. They should have that at every establishment that allows dogs.

[Chance Nichols]

Yes.

[Caleb Hearon]

If your dog doesn't fit in this thing, it needs to go home.

[Chance Nichols]

You can't have a new inland at. At the. At the coffee shop.

[Caleb Hearon]

Your Doberman does not belong at brunch.

[Chance Nichols]

No.

[Caleb Hearon]

Send him home.

[Chance Nichols]

That's right.

[Caleb Hearon]

And if you can't bear to be away from him, you stay home with him.

[Chance Nichols]

That's right.

[Caleb Hearon]

Keep your ass out of public as well. Yeah.

[Chance Nichols]

And my. So my thing about the leash thing, that comes from a place, as an animal lover, like, as somebody, I'm like, we have a responsibility to these creatures that we have decided to pair our life with to keep them safe. And part of that is keeping them, you know, on a fucking leash whenever they're out in the human world. That is designed for people who have a concept of, oh, don't cross the street at any moment. You know what I mean?

[Caleb Hearon]

Don't run in front of the bus.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah. It's like, have your dog roam free in safe areas. I'm talking. It's like, when I see it, I don't love conflict that much, but it's one of those things where when I see it, I'll look at a person and I'll go, what the? And they'll be, why isn't your dog's leash on? And they'll just be like, oh, off.

[Caleb Hearon]

And they'll.

[Chance Nichols]

They'll kind of wander away. I've only done it one time. You're hearing an example of.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, that's beautiful, Chance.

[Chance Nichols]

You think so?

[Caleb Hearon]

I really, really do.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh. Do you have any other questions for me?

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm on board with you. So true. I asked you what's so true. I did. True or false, I guess is. Is there anything that we didn't get to. That you're dying to have in your episode?

[Chance Nichols]

Not really.

[Caleb Hearon]

Anything you want to tell the people?

[Chance Nichols]

Hey, guys. I see the comments and I like them. I think. I think you guys are doing an amazing job. Keep being kind to me. Keep. Keep second guessing my true or false questions all you want. I know I'm right and that's all that matters. But I do love you all. And you all have given me you, you and you and Casey. Everybody has given me an incredible life that I'm very happy. And a lot of it is to do with the fans, the truthers, the celebrities, the K lesbians, the chancers. Now there are chancers, and we are strong and we are growing. And, you know, when I launch my podcast that I've been working on and thinking of I hope that you'll all come and listen.

[Caleb Hearon]

I hope that you guys will too. Go listen to the Chancers can go listen to Chance's podcast.

[Chance Nichols]

Caleb's gonna be on it every week.

[Caleb Hearon]

And if you're a doctor who prescribes anxiety medication and you had a client who was pretty anxious but was worried about pills, maybe just reach out in the DMs to the show page and let us know what you think.

[Chance Nichols]

If you want to mail me a bag of pills, go ahead.

[Caleb Hearon]

No, we're not gonna mail Chance a bag of pills.

[Chance Nichols]

I thought that's what you were asking for.

[Caleb Hearon]

Who's your dream guest to have on so True?

[Chance Nichols]

My dream guest, like the number one.

[Caleb Hearon]

Person in the world that you're like, if they could be on so True, it would just do everything to me. Maybe the. Maybe the. Maybe the Chancers and Caitlin can rally and start tagging this person.

[Chance Nichols]

Oh, my God.

[Caleb Hearon]

Hmm.

[Chance Nichols]

My number one person ever.

[Caleb Hearon]

For you. For you.

[Chance Nichols]

For me.

[Caleb Hearon]

Not for me, for you.

[Chance Nichols]

It's a tie between. It's one media person and one football player. It'd either be Will Ferrell. I would love to get Will Ferrell on here. I'd love to chat with him. Or Patrick Mahomes.

[Caleb Hearon]

I love it.

[Chance Nichols]

I'd love to get Pat in here, you know, chop it up about Texas, do all that good stuff. And I think we could.

[Caleb Hearon]

I doubt that Pat will come on the show. Will Ferrell feels like a much safer bet.

[Chance Nichols]

Yeah, maybe Travis. Travis Kelce.

[Caleb Hearon]

Travis. Seems we have more. Travis is way cooler than Pat. Let's be honest. Travis is way cooler than Pat. I love him to death. He is many seasons has been a great football player. Has made my city much cooler. His wife's politics make me think that he might not be so cool. I don't know. Pat, you're gonna have to start speaking up if you don't want people to think these things, brother. Your weird wife is running, shooting her mouth off all the time. Being pro trump, it makes me think that maybe you're cool with it, dog. So to Patrick Mahomes, I would say, hey, love you to death, brother. Thank you for what you do. I'm very concerned about your private beliefs about the world and Travis. I don't have those concerns. I think Travis is above board. I love the whole Kelsey family. Shout out, Kylie. Love your podcast. Shout out, Jason, you seem cool as I think they're doing things a little different over there. And frankly, shout out Taylor as well.

[Chance Nichols]

Also love to have Uma Thurman on the show.

[Caleb Hearon]

Thank you so much, Chance. This was beautiful.

[Chance Nichols]

Bye.

[Caleb Hearon]

That was a Hitgum podcast. Hey, I'm Tony Hale. I'm Matt Oberg.

[Chance Nichols]

And I'm Kristen Schall.

[Caleb Hearon]

And we're going to be hosting the new podcast the Extraordinarians, where we are.

[Chance Nichols]

Going to be interviewing extraordinary people doing.

[Caleb Hearon]

Extraordinary things, things that we have never.

[Chance Nichols]

And probably will never do. We talk to people who have broken.

[Caleb Hearon]

Records on slack lines by hot air balloons. We're talking to people who have done.

[Chance Nichols]

Multiple flips on trampolines.

[Caleb Hearon]

You'll have to tune in to find out how many flips they did.

[Chance Nichols]

Subscribe to Extraordinarians on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Pocket Cast, or wherever you get your podcast and watch. God, watch it on the YouTube. There's new episodes that we release it every Wednesday. We do.

[Caleb Hearon]

I've never seen you cry before. I know. I don't know. This is upsetting for all of us.

[Chance Nichols]

They don't let us break for lunch.

[Caleb Hearon]

They do the podcast.

[Chance Nichols]

It's so competitive. They make you just talk. Guys, we're watching a spin out. Please subscribe.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, man. Extraordinarians.