Jensen McRae Got Good Grades

Summary

Summary of "Jensen McRae Got Good Grades" on So True with Caleb Hearon

Release Date: March 13, 2025

In the engaging episode titled "Jensen McRae Got Good Grades" of So True with Caleb Hearon, host Caleb Hearon sits down with rising musician and multifaceted artist Jensen McRae. The episode delves into a rich tapestry of topics ranging from favorite podcasts and music production to personal anecdotes and relationship dynamics. Skipping over the introductory advertisements, the conversation picks up with Caleb and Jensen addressing their playful "beef" over Jensen's track "Darling Killer."

---

1. Favorite Podcasts and Influences

At [02:15], the duo explores their favorite podcasts, highlighting classics like Drew and Brittany’s "Love Love Love" and the Vlogbrothers hosted by John and Hank Green. Jensen expresses admiration for the versatility of the Vlogbrothers, noting their blend of science, soccer, and advice.

Jensen McRae [02:31]: "Their podcast together, they do like, science and like soccer and like advice and science, soccer and advice. That classic formula."

Caleb shares his newfound appreciation for the Vlogbrothers, reflecting on how he enjoys listening to philosophy videos while unwinding.

---

2. Music and Production

Jensen reveals exciting news about his upcoming album titled "I Don't Know How But They Found Me," set for release on April 25th. He discusses collaborating with esteemed producer Brad Cook, whose expertise has significantly shaped the album's organic, singer-songwriter vibe.

Jensen McRae [06:21]: "Brad was kind of the one that raised his hand and was like, I really like this. I want to make it."

The conversation highlights the collaborative spirit between artist and producer, with Jensen emphasizing Brad Cook's ability to create a nurturing and creative recording environment.

---

3. Live Music Experiences

Caleb recounts a memorable concert experience at the United Center in Chicago, where he witnessed Nathaniel Rateliff perform alongside the legendary Mavis Staples. The emotional rendition of "Friendship" left both Caleb and the audience in tears, showcasing the profound impact of live performances.

Caleb Hearon [10:07]: "I was sobbing and saying, I'm sobbing. I'm weeping. And then he... she walks up there, and they're so fucking just legendary."

Jensen echoes the sentiment, appreciating the depth and authenticity that artists like Mavis Staples bring to their performances.

---

4. Relationship Dynamics and Personal Growth

A significant portion of the episode delves into personal relationships and the complexities of navigating breakups. Jensen shares his experiences with past relationships, emphasizing the importance of healthy endings and personal growth.

Jensen McRae [75:39]: "But that was as bad as it gets."

Caleb offers advice on ending relationships thoughtfully, urging friends to avoid prolonging painful situations out of obligation.

---

5. Interactive "True or False" Segment

At [31:42], the hosts introduce a fun and interactive "True or False" segment, where Jensen quizzes Caleb with 15 statements. This playful exchange not only entertains listeners but also showcases the camaraderie between the two hosts.

Caleb Hearon [68:26]: "Dragonflies can't walk."
Jensen McRae [68:42]: "False."

Their quick-fire responses and lighthearted banter add a dynamic layer to the conversation, keeping listeners engaged and entertained.

---

6. Personal Anecdotes and Humor

Throughout the episode, both Caleb and Jensen share humorous and heartfelt stories from their lives. From Caleb’s awkward encounter involving Jacob Elordi photos to Jensen’s struggles with learning Spanish and his infamous mishaps post-breakup, the hosts blend humor with vulnerability, creating an authentic and relatable dialogue.

Jensen McRae [75:05]: "I ran into a guy named Giuseppe, beautiful but too old for me and lives in Milan."

Caleb Hearon [56:39]: "I have found some crazy shit on people that I'm dating."

---

7. Promotion and Closing Remarks

As the episode draws to a close, Jensen promotes his upcoming single "Savannah," slated for release alongside his album. Caleb encourages listeners to support Jensen’s music and tune into his performances.

Jensen McRae [86:38]: "My album dropped. It's called 'I Don't Know How But They Found Me. It comes out on April 25th."

The hosts wrap up with laughter and warm acknowledgments, reinforcing the friendly and supportive atmosphere that defines So True with Caleb Hearon.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jensen McRae [04:44]: "That's so crazy that, like, we. With. Among entertainers, there's, like, everyone's got, like, a secret second life that they want."

• Caleb Hearon [10:07]: "I was sobbing and saying, I'm sobbing. I'm weeping. And then she walks up there, and they're so fucking just legendary."

• Jensen McRae [75:39]: "But that was as bad as it gets."

This episode of So True with Caleb Hearon offers a blend of insightful discussions, personal stories, and interactive fun, making it a must-listen for fans eager to delve into the genuine and entertaining world of Caleb and his guest, Jensen McRae.

Transcript

[Caleb Hearon]

This is a headgum podcast.

[Jensen McRae]

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[Caleb Hearon]

I didn't vote for him, but if you did, that's okay. I'm so glad you're here.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm so. This is my favorite podcast maybe ever.

[Caleb Hearon]

What are the. What are. What am I in competition with?

[Jensen McRae]

There's some weird ones. I mean, there's the classics. You've got the. Drew and Brittany are obviously up there. Love, love, love.

[Caleb Hearon]

I've heard a lot about them.

[Jensen McRae]

Only good things, I presume.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I don't know their stuff, but I've heard they're cool and they seem like nice enough people.

[Jensen McRae]

I recommend you dive in. I think you're gonna. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's Drew. You said Drew and Brittany.

[Jensen McRae]

Drew and Brittany, yes. They're both in their late 50s, kind of mostly gardening, home content.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jensen McRae]

They don't look a day over 40, but you'd be surprised up in their 50s.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, they seem cool as hell. I'll have to check out their stuff.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, I hope you do. After. If nothing else. If you take nothing else from today, that's awesome.

[Caleb Hearon]

Let me look into that.

[Jensen McRae]

But I also love weird podcasts. Like, I really love, you know, John Green, the young adult author.

[Caleb Hearon]

No.

[Jensen McRae]

He wrote like the Fault in Our Stars, that book about the. The teens with cancer fall in love. Hank Green.

[Caleb Hearon]

I know that one.

[Jensen McRae]

You know Hank. Yeah, I love that. But they, their podcast together, they do like, science and like soccer and like.

[Caleb Hearon]

Advice and science, soccer and advice. That classic formula.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, that was kind of the bit. They were like, what if they, like, John is really into English football, Hank's really into Mars, and they're like, what if we just did both of those?

[Caleb Hearon]

I know Hank only because I like to get blazed and watch philosophy videos on YouTube.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's perfect.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'll get stoned and be like human beings inherently good or evil. Question mark.

[Jensen McRae]

And those are the guys to go for those kinds of questions.

[Caleb Hearon]

He did some kind of series about all that stuff.

[Jensen McRae]

I've been obsessed with their videos since I was like 15. Like, I'm very locked in on the Vlogbrothers, which is the name of their YouTube channel. But they also have a podcast, and that's kind of one of my plain. If I'm not listening to you on the plane for a podcast, I'm probably listening to John and Hank.

[Caleb Hearon]

I liked the Fault in Our Stars.

[Jensen McRae]

It's a beautiful book and one of his best. Which caused, I think, John some distress of being like, I wrote my best book and now what type of thing? Yeah, but he's recovered, he's doing great work. He's fine.

[Caleb Hearon]

Do you think you've done your best song yet?

[Jensen McRae]

Sometimes I worry, like when I put out Wolves, which was my second single off my first album, People, a couple people said to me, like, this is the best song I've ever heard. Which of course destabilizing for a 22 year old. And also me being like, I hope not. Yeah, I hope I do better. And I didn't peak at 22 is a great song. Thank you. I do love it.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's a great song.

[Jensen McRae]

Thank you.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, you and I have beef.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Which is part of why I brought.

[Jensen McRae]

You in here so we can finally settle it.

[Caleb Hearon]

I want to settle the beef because you seem nice. I like you, we're friends.

[Jensen McRae]

I do a good job of branding as nice.

[Caleb Hearon]

People think you're nice, and I do. But we have beef because you won't make Darling Killer into a single. You have this snippet from TikTok that I have sent you. I've gone so far, I've Sent this to people you work with. I've sent this to your collaborators and said, why isn't she doing this one?

[Jensen McRae]

That's. It's a great question. At the end of the day, I post so many snippets. It's just. It's. They're all run together.

[Caleb Hearon]

You're on there. Maybe if they let you cut the ribbon.

[Jensen McRae]

I knew you were gonna sing today. I went insane. I said, I know Caleb's gonna sing.

[Caleb Hearon]

No one's free of me singing on this show.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, I was just talking about. I don't know if you coined this or you were just, like, a keen observer of this. Like, that all musicians wish they were comedians, and all comedians wish they were musicians. You brought this up, and it's very true.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And I feel like we should just Freaky Friday kind of switch.

[Caleb Hearon]

We have a special little love story going on. Comedians and musicians.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. And I pointed this out to someone yesterday, and they were like, I feel like there's a similar symbiosis with rappers and basketball players.

[Caleb Hearon]

Absolutely, there is.

[Jensen McRae]

And I loved that observation. And I'm like, that's so crazy that, like, we. With. Among entertainers, there's, like, everyone's got, like, a secret second life that they want.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think it's rappers and basketball players. I think it's actors and football players.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, really?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Who are the famous ones of that?

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, my God. Bradley Cooper.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I'm treated. Every city has them like. Like Paul Rudd. Like, okay, everyone's got, like, some actors that are obsessed with their football team. And I'm In a way that I'm like, you'd like to be out.

[Jensen McRae]

You want to get on the. You want to get the pads on and get out.

[Caleb Hearon]

You'd like to be out.

[Jensen McRae]

I never even. That's another. I had never thought about that. Because I will say also, not to blow smoke for musicians, but I find a lot of actors, even ones that aren't comedic actors, also wish they were musicians.

[Caleb Hearon]

Everyone in the world wishes they were musicians, which is.

[Jensen McRae]

So. As a musician, that's crazy.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's hilarious.

[Jensen McRae]

Because it's not. Like, it's a great job. I love it. Full disclosure. But also, like, it's not for everyone.

[Caleb Hearon]

For sure. It's not. That's why I'm not doing it.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, you. But you could at any moment drop of a hat. You drop an ep, you know what? And line of best fit is like, they're getting the review out. You know what the Clash is getting in there? IDs getting in there.

[Caleb Hearon]

Golly. Golly.

[Jensen McRae]

Paper magazine. All the. All the. I know. All the indie publications. Don't worry.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, don't worry. Indie publications. Jensen loves you. As long as you love her.

[Jensen McRae]

I. And I. And the love is.

[Caleb Hearon]

Keep it cute.

[Jensen McRae]

The love is there.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

I love those guys.

[Caleb Hearon]

I love that you. You have a new record coming out.

[Jensen McRae]

I do, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And you're. You're excited about it. I'm sure.

[Jensen McRae]

I am over the moon. I, like, can't. I kind of can't believe that it's actually finally happening.

[Caleb Hearon]

And Brad Cook produced it.

[Jensen McRae]

Brad Cook produced.

[Caleb Hearon]

Can we talk about Brad Cook?

[Jensen McRae]

I'm obsessed with Brad Cook. I could talk about him all the time. When I went to my. When I first started talking to my label about the new album, they're like, we're going to send it to two producers. We're going to send to Aaron Dessner, famously of the national, and Brad Cook. And I was like, I would be so thrilled with either of these outcomes. And Brad was kind of the one that raised his hand and was like, I really like this. I want to make it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And I got on the phone with him, and immediately the vibes were great. But he lives in North Carolina.

[Caleb Hearon]

He sure does.

[Jensen McRae]

And they were like, yeah, you're gonna go down to North Carolina for 10 days and you're gonna record this. And I was like, golly gee, I hope it works out. Gosh darn it. I really hope this works.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, golly. I hope I'm not in North Carolina and not having a good time.

[Jensen McRae]

I hope I'm not having a bad time in making bad songs. And like, the very first day that we got there, it was me and my managers, and I brought my little brother to play keys. Cause he's my keys player. And this from the very first moment, I was like, oh, this is a love connection. Like, this is my. This is my guy.

[Caleb Hearon]

Your little brother is, like, one of the cutest people alive.

[Jensen McRae]

He's precious.

[Caleb Hearon]

He's adorable.

[Jensen McRae]

He's so to the point that it's, like, annoying. Like I said recently at a family dinner, I was like, it's annoying that I'm the least attractive sibling.

[Caleb Hearon]

No, let's not be crazy.

[Jensen McRae]

Here's the thing. I'm. I. I'm a cutie pie. But ultimately, the end of the day, like, the amount of people that say to me, like, oh, my God, your brothers, your brothers, your brothers. And I'm like, why don't we dial it back a little bit?

[Caleb Hearon]

Your whole family is beautiful.

[Jensen McRae]

It's a beautiful family and we're all very tall. So we. When the five of us, when we're walking five abreast, it's like, wow, that's like a giant.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's what we call that a full court press. Yeah. When your walks together, that's a full court press.

[Jensen McRae]

Indeed. Indeed.

[Caleb Hearon]

There's a pick and roll.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. Okay. Sports.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, Come on, sports.

[Jensen McRae]

I know you know your sports.

[Caleb Hearon]

Come on, now. So you go to North Carolina, you make the album with Brad, who I just adore.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, because he did the Wax Hatchie album.

[Caleb Hearon]

He did, yeah. He's done Suki Waterhouse's stuff for people who don't know. He did. He did St. Cloud. He did Tiger's Blood for. With Waxahachie.

[Jensen McRae]

Works a lot with Bon Iver.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Another fave.

[Caleb Hearon]

I just love Brad.

[Jensen McRae]

He's so cool and like, another, like, another tall. He's like six, four.

[Caleb Hearon]

Big guy.

[Jensen McRae]

Huge. Huge, big guy. And like, immediately, like, comforting, inviting presence. Loves a. Loves a. I'm very into, like, perfume and candles and stuff. And he has a candle locker in his studio. Just, like, full shelf of, like, the most beautiful smelling candles you've ever seen in your life. And just, like, an amazing environment. Like, he's just so smart. He's so quick. He knew exactly where to take the record even when I didn't. And, like, it was. I say it felt like summer camp, like, the 10 days that we were down there.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I love. I fell in love with Brad. I saw him. I forget the order of operations, but there was a time where we were both in New York and he had come to a show of mine.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, wow.

[Caleb Hearon]

And whatever. Whatever. But not because of me. He came with a. But that's not when I fell in love with him. I fell in love with him because I watched him at Public Records do a. They did, like, an album thing for Katie's album, and it was him and Katie and Allison talking about the record. And the way that he talked about Katie, my friend, the way he talked about her and her brilliance and their making of the record together and the, like, absence of ego.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And just, like, his process, I was just like, this is a really cool human being. I like him a lot.

[Jensen McRae]

He's so sweet and, like, he just knows so much about music and has no and no agenda. And, like, those are my favorite kind of people to work with. Like, he's worked with everyone. He's worked with the coolest people in the entire world. And he's equally as invested in making My record as he is making those, like, for Mavis Staples, who's, like, one of the biggest legends of all time, because he just. Whatever he likes, he thinks is important. And, like, he's not a person who's trying to prove anything. He's not a person who's trying to chase clout. Like, he just, like, is down for the cause of great music. And it makes me feel like. It gives me a lot of validation of, like, this is a person who, like, his stamp means something.

[Caleb Hearon]

Do you want to know one of my top five live music moments?

[Jensen McRae]

I would love to know this.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't. I don't know if I've said it on the show or not. I might have, but it happened in November.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

I went to see Nathaniel Rand, the Night Sweats.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, Lovely.

[Caleb Hearon]

Who I love, at the United center in Chicago, and couple tracks in. It was great. I was there with Kevin and Liam, and we were having a great time, and a bunch of other friends had showed up. And then a couple songs in, he brought out Mavis Staples, and they did Friendship. They did Friendship.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, my goodness.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I. I. He. I. First of all, I. Immediately. He goes, ladies and gentlemen, Mavis. I'm sobbing and saying, I'm sobbing. He goes, ladies and gentlemen, Mavis. I'm. I'm sobbing. I'm weeping. And then he. He brings her up, and she walks up there, and she's so fucking. Just legendary. And it's Chicago, and it's Mavis in Chicago, and it's United center, and Chicago has so much meaning to me, and she's a Chicago legend. And I just was like, whoa, I can't believe this is happening. And then they do friendship, and I'm with my buddies, and we're just. I woke over at one point, and just everyone I can see is crying. It was so beautiful. And I love Nathaniel. He's a Missouri guy. And I just was like, wow, this is it. I. In the moment, I was like, you're experiencing something that you will never forget.

[Jensen McRae]

Have you always had, like, your finger on the pulse of the cool music? Like, have you always had good music taste?

[Caleb Hearon]

I've always had my music taste, which I like a lot.

[Jensen McRae]

Yes. But it just seems like you, like, you're, like, always discovering, like, the new talent. Like, I feel like if I. Like, when you're posting something, I'm like, oh, that's the thing that, like, musicians have already caught on to, and you're, like, bringing it out into. Into the mainstream, and it's like, have you always been like an A and R in that way.

[Caleb Hearon]

A subtle drag.

[Jensen McRae]

No, that's. No, that's positive. That's A and R positive parentheses, positive, not dragon.

[Caleb Hearon]

A and R parentheses. Complimentary. No, I do. I just love music so much. And I listen. I just listen to musicians. Like, when, like, there. There's so much stuff that I discover through. Like, if you told me someone you liked, I would go home and do a deep dive. Because I'm like, jensen knows music. Or like, if Kevin and Katie, like someone who has a tiny following, I'm like, they're fucking good. Like, I just. Anytime a musician friend tells me someone that they love, I. Especially in private, if we're. If it's, you know, saying. If it's not in public, I'm like, in public, sometimes it can be like, oh, they're on the label, or whatever you still trust. But you're like, we'll see. But in private, if they're like, I've really been listening to Hooray for the Riff Raff. You know what I mean? Then I'm like, I'm fucking walking in, you know, or whatever. The thing is.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, we have a mutual favorite band in Muna.

[Caleb Hearon]

God, I like the music, the people. I like the music.

[Jensen McRae]

You're separating the art from the arts.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't like the lesbians behind the sound.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, then you would have been appalled at Brandi Carlisle's music festival that we were at last month night.

[Caleb Hearon]

What was that like?

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, it was truly. The attendance and lineup was, I would say, 90% lesbians.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, sorry, I wasn't being clear. I love lesbians. I don't like the lesbians of Muna.

[Jensen McRae]

Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it. It was. It was like. It was like magic. It was. Me and my managers were remarking, like, it was the safest we've ever felt at a music festival ever, because pretty. It was almost all women in attendance and on the lineup, and everyone was just like. Everyone was deeply, deeply sensitive. Deeply, deeply engaged with the craft of feeling. And I got to sing Silkshwan with Muna again, which I hadn't done in a couple of years.

[Caleb Hearon]

Good stuff.

[Jensen McRae]

So powerful, so beautiful. But, yeah, I did reunite with them. Much to your chagrin, apparently. And I'll pass along that you're not happy with the way things are kind of shaking out with them.

[Caleb Hearon]

I like the music. I like the music. No, they're obviously. They're the best. They're wonderful. I desecrated silk chiffon one time with my presence And I keep. Something keeps happening to me with my musician friends, I think via some form of. Do you remember in high school when people would bully one of the weird kids by including them and stuff me.

[Jensen McRae]

That happened to me. You mean when I was in ninth grade and on the back of the bus on a choir trip, everyone tried to make me freestyle rap. You know that scene in Sorry to Bother your where they make him rap and they don't like it till he starts saying the N word. That happened to me in real life when I was 14.

[Caleb Hearon]

Jesus Christ, by the way. Yeah. In high school, when they would be like. When they'd be like, we should invite Dylan to play kickball.

[Jensen McRae]

You know, he has no idea.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. And he's like, I'd love to play kickball. Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And like, it's truly like walls closing in. Carrie Pigsblood kind of a moment. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And that's what keeps happening to me with musician Prince asking me to sing.

[Jensen McRae]

No, but you have a voice. You can sing.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's not even relevant. It's that I feel it's so disrespectful for me to hop on a track like Truly. Katie. When Katie Gavin did her most recent solo show for the record in New York, she was like, you should hop up and do a song with me. And I was like, katie, do you think anyone in that audience wants to see your court jester friend get up and ruin Inconsolable.

[Jensen McRae]

They absolutely do, though, is the thing. I don't.

[Caleb Hearon]

I would be. Here's what I'll tell you. I just to bring up a comedian at a beautiful event. I just think you don't want to.

[Jensen McRae]

Sing Massachusetts with me in New York.

[Caleb Hearon]

Want is not the concern. All I want is to be up there with you, but I have to be in the audience where I belong. I'll be crying with the other gay non binary people.

[Jensen McRae]

And I do have. I do have those at my shows.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yes.

[Jensen McRae]

I get a lot of. I get a lot of lesbian allegations. I find you. Yes. Which I don't. I don't mind. It's just like so many of my songs are about he. Him. So it's just like, it does surprise me. But I think ultimately it's that I get put on playlists with like, other lesbian artists and people are like, oh, surely this music that I like must be gay music, because I like it. And all good music is gay music. And I think that's kind of where the. Where the overlap comes in.

[Caleb Hearon]

Based on. I've listened to. I think every song you've ever put out. And based on the analysis of the lyrics, I could only assume that most of these crimes were perpetrated by he him.

[Jensen McRae]

That it's. That's really the only conclusion I would expect anyone to come to. The thing I've heard is like, oh, the yearning in the music. That's kind of got a gay energy, a lesbian energy. Is the yearning.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yearning is queer. Yes.

[Jensen McRae]

Yes. But ultimately, yeah, I am writing about a lot of he hims, unfortunately.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I hate to see that.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, we share this plight of, like, unfortunately being afflicted by the he him spiracy.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's horrible.

[Jensen McRae]

It's horrible. But it does. It's good for the plot. We get good stories. We get good songs, ultimately, good, good jokes.

[Caleb Hearon]

It is good for the plot. Yeah. If I were into women, Oh, I struggle to think of how easy life would be.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, you'd make a killing.

[Caleb Hearon]

It'd be so simple. Oh, my.

[Jensen McRae]

Make a killing, my dumb wife. You wouldn't be a wife guy.

[Caleb Hearon]

No.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think I'd be one. I think I'd be one of those comics, like, kind of with a smirk that's like, she always wants to go shopping.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, women. And this is like a hot. Women do love shopping.

[Caleb Hearon]

Women love shopping.

[Jensen McRae]

Women be shopping.

[Caleb Hearon]

Women be shopping. And men love sports.

[Jensen McRae]

I don't know why. Let's stop fighting it.

[Caleb Hearon]

There's two genders. Let's start there. No, I'm just kidding, guys. I'm kidding.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm kidding. I'm not trying to, like, reignite your beef with any. With any of the. Any communities.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, I have no beef with any communities.

[Jensen McRae]

Famously on. On the right side of history all the time.

[Caleb Hearon]

I have no beef with any communities. I've sworn all that off.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, yeah. It's new year, new leaf.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I have no beef.

[Jensen McRae]

20, 25. No beef.

[Caleb Hearon]

Any communities. I've only. I'm pro. All of it. I love it all. Unless you count poly people as a community.

[Jensen McRae]

I was. I, this morning, before coming here, was listening to your new episode with. Well, at the time. New episode with Taylor Ortega and talking about the poly community.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And I just. I appreciated you guys weighing in.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Well, I mean, good night with those folks. I can't even begin. I can't even begin. Who has the time or energy?

[Jensen McRae]

We've run a tight ship. We've got a busy schedule.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, we've got a busy schedule. I can't have boyfriends plural. I struggle to think of singular boyfriend.

[Jensen McRae]

It's.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's.

[Jensen McRae]

For me, hard to Imagine singular boyfriend as well.

[Caleb Hearon]

Seeing somebody right now.

[Jensen McRae]

No, I'm like in a.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's.

[Jensen McRae]

It's fun for me to be like, there's actually no one. Like, I don't have to be coy and be like, well, but there's like, literally no one. I might go on a date on Saturday.

[Caleb Hearon]

Nice. What's their deal?

[Jensen McRae]

I don't. I don't really know. I'm like choosing to know nothing. But they're. I mean, they're from. Right. He's from Raya.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, God.

[Jensen McRae]

Because that's the only app I use.

[Caleb Hearon]

God, I hate Raya.

[Jensen McRae]

It's not. It doesn't really work.

[Caleb Hearon]

No, it's bad.

[Jensen McRae]

It doesn't really work at all. It's kind of funny just like seeing like a lot of creative directors, like, a lot of guys who, like, do, like, drive race cars. I feel like I see a lot of that. A lot of guys who I accidentally match with in Milan who are like, when are you coming to Italy? And I'm like, I don't know how this even happens.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't know how I got ahold of you.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, I don't know. We shouldn't be in contact. I don't know. This 40 year old man in Milan.

[Caleb Hearon]

That'S me with Amsterdam.

[Jensen McRae]

It's Amsterdam.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm getting guys from Amsterdam that are going, when will you be in the Netherlands? And I go, brother, not for a while. How did you find me?

[Jensen McRae]

And it's like, partially my fault. Like, I should have been paying closer attention to that location. But then before I know it, I'm just chit chatting with them. I was. I'm not gonna say in a fake Italian name. I don't have a good one.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm chatting with Giuseppe.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm chatting with Giuseppe and he is beautiful, gorgeous man, but too old for me and lives in Milan.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, they're always beautiful. Yeah, they're always beautiful when they live in Milan.

[Jensen McRae]

You spend a lot of time in Italy?

[Caleb Hearon]

No. And you know, I'd like to. I'd like to go abroad more. But, you know, the issue is I don't think my guy is abroad.

[Jensen McRae]

You don't think?

[Caleb Hearon]

I think my husband is American and I find that unfortunate.

[Jensen McRae]

He really likes Salt of the Earth, like Midwestern.

[Caleb Hearon]

I really do.

[Jensen McRae]

I think he's in Kansas City.

[Caleb Hearon]

My husband not lives there currently. I'll tell you that. I'll tell you, my husband does not live in Kansas City right now.

[Jensen McRae]

You're gonna bring him there, though.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, my God. Yeah, I'm gonna Have to, like. I'm gonna have to like, drag someone back to the Midwest with me.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

The dates I've gone on in Kansas City can only be described. And I'm sorry, fellas, I know some of you are listening. Can only be described as a torture, a self harm ritual. The dates I've been on in Kansas City, it's like, it's either a key, it's like we're girlfriends, or this is the most disturbed, like, partially closeted individual I've ever encountered. It's Bad News bears, I think.

[Jensen McRae]

I think dating ultimately is. Anyone who says, like, dating is easy is lying. I think dating is fun.

[Caleb Hearon]

Dating is fun.

[Jensen McRae]

I think dating is fun. Dating is not easy.

[Caleb Hearon]

It is not easy.

[Jensen McRae]

And I think if. I think you're. Even if you're having bad dates, it is still fun. Like, when I'm having bad dates, I'm still mostly having a good time.

[Caleb Hearon]

You know what? My dating life's going pretty well recently.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay, well, that's not brag.

[Caleb Hearon]

I know. And I don't know what I'm gonna talk about.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, you'll get hobbies. I'm getting. I'm pretty into the Sims right now, I'm not gonna lie.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. My SIM just died of embarrassment.

[Caleb Hearon]

What happens?

[Jensen McRae]

I honestly don't know. I. She was just like, standing outside. She was embarrassed, but maybe she peed herself. Something happened.

[Caleb Hearon]

Something outside is humiliating. Don't you find? For real. Do you ever. When I show up somewhere and I'm standing outside waiting for my friend, I'm like, this is one of the worst things ever happened to me.

[Jensen McRae]

Can I be so honest? This is like, I bring a book and I'll just like, stand reading a book, like on a street corner to look mysterious. I'm standing, reading a book to look mysterious.

[Caleb Hearon]

You're so that girl.

[Jensen McRae]

And it's like, I think I'm pulling it off.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

But it's also like, when I really think about it, I'm like, girl, what are you doing?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

You don't look that mysterious. You're reading a book. I mean, unfortunately. I mean, the books I read, I think if you like caught a glimpse of the title, you'd be like, oh, like she's really serious about it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

It's not like I'm. It's not like a Sony. My first, you know, Fisher Price, My first book type of thing.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

But it is because you know how, like, there's certain books that, like, I.

[Caleb Hearon]

See a guy on the subway reading all about love.

[Jensen McRae]

Exactly.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I Go. This is your first time with a book.

[Jensen McRae]

I don't ever want to be that person. I'm doing stuff. It's a little more niche. Like I just read like a Mogam book that was like a book that I'd recently read. And I know that like sitting on, like be on the plane with that.

[Caleb Hearon]

I didn't vote for him. But if you did, that's okay. Come on. But like, come on, isn't that fun?

[Jensen McRae]

No, it's a good one. We have fun here.

[Caleb Hearon]

Come on. Isn't that fun?

[Jensen McRae]

We have a lot of head gum.

[Caleb Hearon]

What was the thing you said though?

[Jensen McRae]

No, just, I am, I just, when I'm reading stuff, I, I, I ultimately like, I'm picking titles that are not giving. Like, it's not posturing, you know? Yeah, but it's still like, ultimately, if you're standing outside of a coffee shop waiting for your friend and you are reading a book, you're fully standing up and reading is crazy. Like, have you seen the pictures of Jacob Elordi where he's reading a book in a hand and then he has also has a paperback in the back pocket?

[Caleb Hearon]

Honey, I've seen every picture of Jacob Elordi. There's not a picture of Jacob Elordi that hasn't crossed my desk.

[Jensen McRae]

You're signing off on all of them?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Before I have a, I'm, I'm that guy in the Spider man movie. I need more pictures of Spider Man. I'm, I'm signing off on Jacob Elordi pictures. All the, all they do, they put them in front of me. I go, yep, run it, run it, run it. He's got a purse. Why not? He's 6 foot 10. I don't see why not.

[Jensen McRae]

He's the biggest, most beautiful boy.

[Caleb Hearon]

I need him.

[Jensen McRae]

I, I, So I made a TikTok like a year ago and it went like a little bit viral. And it was me talking about how I, he's my prime example of someone who I think of as a beautiful house.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Like, I see him and I understand that he's gorgeous, but like, to me he's like architecture. He's so beautiful that it's like I can no longer register him as like someone I might have a romance with.

[Caleb Hearon]

Opposite for me. Well, I have a hard time picturing him as somebody I don't have romance with.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, and all the comments were like, well, you have low self esteem. If you don't think that's just a reflection on you being insecure because you don't think you could pull Jacob Elordi. I'm like, Jake. I was like, I want it on the record. Jacob Elordi's not in my DMs. This is not a situation I have to confront.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

This is not something I'm ever gonna have to deal with.

[Caleb Hearon]

I have the opposite of low self esteem. I'm out of my mind. I see someone like Jacob Elordi and I go, he might hit me up.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, here's the thing. It's not that wouldn't hit you up. It's that like, he just, like presently, I'm pretty sure is dating the young Aunt Becky. Right? Like Lori Laughlin's daughter.

[Caleb Hearon]

Pardon? Pardon?

[Jensen McRae]

You know Aunt Becky from Full House.

[Caleb Hearon]

The one that didn't. Didn't they go to jail for.

[Jensen McRae]

There was jail time, by the way. I was at USC when that happened.

[Caleb Hearon]

USC gate.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. I was a senior. I was finishing up my senior year on spring break when the.

[Caleb Hearon]

How'd you get in? What was the. What was it? Did you get in normal style or did you get in normal.

[Jensen McRae]

I got a normal style. I got a normal style.

[Caleb Hearon]

How many people got in fake style? Because that was the whole thing. Right.

[Jensen McRae]

I don't know. But like, I went. So I grew up in la. I went to a very intense private high school and I went to one of the schools where, like, it's not just rich kids. Like, everyone there's really smart.

[Caleb Hearon]

Okay.

[Jensen McRae]

But I.

[Caleb Hearon]

That tracks, by the way, because you are so smart.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, my God, thank you.

[Caleb Hearon]

I see you at a. I see you at a smart high school and they're fucking it up. I see that.

[Jensen McRae]

I was. But I was like the loose, like type B, Like, I mean, I was type A in the sense, like I was raising my hand all the time in class and people were laughing about it, kind of an energy. But I was also in all the talent shows and everyone's like, what's your backup plan when music fails? And I was like, don't worry about it, babe. It's not gonna fail. I'm gonna rock it to the moon at 17 years old. So self confident. But I went to like, the. It was a very school. The kids did well in school. Kids got into college because they were smart. But there are other LA private schools, and I won't name names where some of the kids, like the. You know that like, oh, yeah, these kids are getting into college because their parents are probably paying their way.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And I just thought it was understood that that was happening like with when the. When the big college Gate, was it? Varsity Blues, they called it. When that happened, I was like, is this news? Didn't we know that this was happening? I guess it was the photoshopping of the pictures that everyone was like, that's kind of crazy.

[Caleb Hearon]

It was like, oh, yeah, they did or they didn't play water polo in high school. It's like, I don't give up.

[Jensen McRae]

And I just. I was surprised they were going to those lengths like, that there was any sort of, like, fabrications or fraud going on. But I just thought it was known. It's like, oh, if you're rich and you're not that smart, your parents might just throw some money at it. And then you go to school and then. But then you. Who cares? Kind of. I mean, it's bad. I know it's bad because it's maybe taking away the spot from a kid who deserves it. I understand that. But I just knew that it was the way that it had always worked, and it was the people being shocked about it that surprised me. Cause, like, I thought we all knew that this was going on across the board.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, but you went to USC normal style.

[Jensen McRae]

I did go normal style. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And you studied music there.

[Jensen McRae]

I studied music there and I loved it. I didn't go to a single football game. I didn't participate in, like, any of the normal USC traditions.

[Caleb Hearon]

Can I tell you something?

[Jensen McRae]

Please.

[Caleb Hearon]

I knew that.

[Jensen McRae]

You'Re saying the energy that I'm giving today is not like, girl at the tailgate.

[Caleb Hearon]

Hey, I didn't see you at the game. No, I didn't see you at the game. But you.

[Jensen McRae]

You went to college football games, surely.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, but doesn't that feel a little. Doesn't it track a little bit?

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, I know not in a complimentary way. I know you love football, so, like, you going to a college football game makes sense.

[Caleb Hearon]

You can see by the way, I didn't care much about our college football. I didn't like going to the tailgates. Cause the food sucked and our college football team sucked and the guys sucked.

[Jensen McRae]

Were you doing, like, face paint and stuff? Like, were you like, no. Fuck no.

[Caleb Hearon]

Fuck no. You can barely get me to go to a Chiefs game. Because it's just. It's such a To do. What I like to do is go to a sports bar with great chicken wings and post the fuck up.

[Jensen McRae]

That's beautiful.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I just say, server, keep the Dr. Pepper on a. On a constant loop.

[Jensen McRae]

Is that the best? Because you've got a. You've got a Coca Cola. Today is Dr. Pepper, the Bev of choice for a sporting event, though.

[Caleb Hearon]

Dr. Pepper's the BEV of choice for everything. Okay, Dr. Pepper, give it now. I don't do it that often. Often because I'm like 30 now and responsible.

[Jensen McRae]

Not if you have to drag.

[Caleb Hearon]

The last couple years, I've been. I've been fading out the Dr. Peppers. But, man, if I had my choice, if it was just like. If it was a free for all, I'd have Dr. Pepper all the time. Wake up, middle of the day, evening.

[Jensen McRae]

That. That makes sense. But, yeah, I mean, I went to the. I didn't. I was. I was. I loved usc. I did the. But it was very much like I was in the music school bubble and like, I didn't really. I mean, I knew a lot of kids in the film school. I knew our mutual friend Jeffrey James, a fellow head gummer. We met at improv auditions freshman year of college.

[Caleb Hearon]

Of. Of course, by the way, Jeffrey James, a gorgeous, funny man who is doing something.

[Jensen McRae]

He's up to something. He's no good.

[Caleb Hearon]

I never see him anymore. I'm like, I just trust that he's alive and doing something.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, we lost touch for many years, and then a mutual friend reconnected us last year, and now he's up to his same old tricks.

[Caleb Hearon]

Is he.

[Jensen McRae]

He's really up to his same old tricks. Just goof arounds.

[Caleb Hearon]

I went to get breakfast in LA this morning. I stopped to get breakfast before I came here, and the little girl they had working the counter there, the young lady, the young woman at the counter there, the broad, the young broad, she goes, I know you. And I go, all right. You know, I'm like, do you want a picture? No. She goes. She goes, I met you. You're friends with Jeffrey James.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh.

[Caleb Hearon]

I go, well, we know each other. No, I'm kidding. She goes, you're friends with Jeffrey James. I met you guys the day that you bought matching hats. And I go, oh, yeah, we did do that.

[Jensen McRae]

Was it like the kind of hats that. Like the. Like the propeller hats? What kind of a matching hat are we talking about?

[Caleb Hearon]

That was a slur. Just so you know. Just so you know. That was a crazy slur for comedians. No, for some reason, Jeffrey James and I went to a farmer's market. I like. I just haven't seen Jeff in forever.

[Jensen McRae]

Of course. No, we hard. Pinned down. Hard to pin down.

[Caleb Hearon]

But we went to a farmer's market and bought straw hats together.

[Jensen McRae]

It was straw hats. Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Pretty much adorable.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I think that was three years ago, and I don't think I've seen him since. I don't know where he's at. If you're out there, Jeff, give me a call. This episode of so True is brought to you by booking.combooking. yeah, every time I use booking.com to find a place to stay in the U.S. i know they'll have exactly what I'm looking for. They have a huge variety of options, from hotels to vacation rentals, and I know I can find exactly what I'm looking for. I found booking.com has something for everyone. I'm always saying that anywhere I go grill in my friend group, I'm definitely the planner. If I didn't do it, no one would. These people are pathetic. So when it's time to take that group vacation to the beach, I sprint to my computer and go right to booking dot com. Now my friends can be pretty specific about what they need out of a place to stay on vacation. We simply must have an outdoor barbecue grill so I can make some of my famous hot corn on the cob book. Booking.com makes it easy and convenient to find so many great places to stay all across across this great country of mine. No matter who you are, Booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on booking.com booking. Yeah. This podcast is sponsored by the crisp, refreshing, Angry Orchard. Listen, guys, there's a litany of things that we shouldn't get angry about, but let's be honest. Sometimes it's hard not to be a little pissed off. For example, don't get angry that your beloved sports team keeps blowing leads in the fourth quarter. Don't get angry that you just stubbed your toe like the furniture has a vendetta out against you. Don't get angry when Autocorrect changes a word to something ludicrous, ridiculous, silly, or zany. Instead, get an Angry Orchard and feel good. Okay? Feel chill and refreshed. Not getting pissed off, but just having a tasty orchard. Angry Orchard is the number one hard cider in the country. It's naturally refreshing, delicious, and has just the right amount of sweetness that makes the perfect drink. When you're looking for something a little different. Grab an Angry Orchard cider today. Don't get angry. Get Orchard. Please drink responsibly.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, we met it. We met at Improv Editions and he is a. He is a beautiful young man to the point that, like at the. I saw him at the trials and I was like, this guy's not gonna be funny. Too good looking, suspicious.

[Caleb Hearon]

I know. He's gorgeous.

[Jensen McRae]

And then he was really funny, and I was like, not fair, not cool.

[Caleb Hearon]

But I've not seen him be funny. I just noticed that he's never heard a joke. Never seen him try to do a joke.

[Jensen McRae]

Really, really solid serious guy.

[Caleb Hearon]

Stern guy.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, yeah, very stern. Kind of intense, Kind of crazy eyes kind of got going.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

It's a shame. Could be. Could have a really bright future in comedy if he devoted himself to it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Did you make it on the improv team?

[Jensen McRae]

No.

[Caleb Hearon]

Whoa.

[Jensen McRae]

I didn't. I'm so. I was telling this. I'm gonna keep. I don't know. I'm, like, locked into telling the stories about my improv days. But I. I got to the callbacks, like I was gonna be on the short form team, and they did a thing where for six weeks, twice a week, you would meet up basically in, like. It was at the physical education building. And from, like, I think it was ten to midnight twice a week, you were, like, in improv. Like, probationary improv boot camp. And then I think it was a test.

[Caleb Hearon]

I love improv, kids. I love the shit we used to do to prove to each other that we were serious about it.

[Jensen McRae]

And it was crazy because, like, in the music school at usc, like, you had. So you had performance class on Tuesday nights, and then you also had rehearsals twice a week.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Like, with your band. Because, like, the first two years, you're in basically in cover bands all the time.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And so I would have, like, on Monday night, the night before performance class, I would have my normal rehearsal from 6 to 8 or whatever. And then I gotta eat dinner, and then I would go do improv for two hours. And then I would go back to my, like, freshman dorm with no air conditioning and then wake up at, like, 6am to go to, like, classical theory. Like, that's what I was doing in 2015. I was like, yeah, I was doing improv till the wee hours and then waking up to, like, do, like, analyze fugues in classical music.

[Caleb Hearon]

Your college experience was much cooler than mine.

[Jensen McRae]

That. That's. You heard improv and classical theory and you thought, cool.

[Caleb Hearon]

You're like. You're like. You're like, I'm in rehearsal. I'm in a cover ban and do improv. I'm analyzing musical theory. I'm like, truly? I don't even know what we did. I remember that one time we got kicked out of a Red Lobster because we did too much on the Endless shrimp.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, we were. We were causing. I was causing a ruckus invariably as well. But, like, I mean, the classical theory was brutal. I was getting like. Those were the first time I ever got, like, Fs in my life. Yeah, but, like, you could go to the teacher's office hours, then redo the homework, and then she would just give you a new grade based on how much she helped you. So, like, if I hadn't done that, I would have gotten an actual F. Like, and as I'm a person who, like, I was very fastidious about my grades my whole life and, like, I would get, like, homework back. And like, you got 30% of this. Right? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't even know how to process how wrong I was. I can't believe it.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm not used to this.

[Jensen McRae]

I wasn't used to it at all. And like, fortunately, like, it didn't matter. Like, the classical, it fell off after that. But that first year, waking up that early for that. And I had a rival. There was this girl who sat next to me who was a classical major. Always sick. It got me sick repeatedly. I hated her so much.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's so funny. Do you know what she does? Is she a big time musician now?

[Jensen McRae]

I have no idea. Because I don't really. I don't keep up with that many people from college, honestly. Like, I have my friends, but everyone else I like kind of. Like, I. I don't have Facebook anymore. Like, I haven't Facebook for like five years. And so I kind of don't know, like, about, like, like the external circles. I don't really know what they're up to.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm randomly kind of up on what's up with the USC music kids.

[Jensen McRae]

Are you?

[Caleb Hearon]

I randomly know a lot of y'all, I guess so. It's like, it's just the LA of it all. I have run into a lot of USC music.

[Jensen McRae]

We do mostly. We do mostly stay in la.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's pretty interesting.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I learned that the. I learned that USC had something called music music. I learned you guys had a music major at usc. When I moved here, I was like, I didn't really know you could study that at college.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, the popular music program, which is what I was in, which I don't think all of the Moonas did it. I think Naomi studied something else. But Katie and Josette were in the.

[Caleb Hearon]

Ryan was in there, Lou was in there.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

All those guys.

[Jensen McRae]

And it was. It started in 2009. So I was only like the sixth graduating class or something. But yeah, it's a pretty new thing and they've like modeled other programs like around the. Based on it, I think. But I was, yeah, I was obsessed. I was the devotee, real teacher's pet. I go back and speak there all the time.

[Caleb Hearon]

Nice.

[Jensen McRae]

Which like I fantasized about, of course, like being a, like a precocious 18 year old. I was like, I can't wait till I'm on that stage giving a speech. I'm gonna come back and really teach the class.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm gonna have an impact.

[Jensen McRae]

I really wanted, I wanted to so badly. There's nothing I wanted more. And I still want to be a professor. Like I want to get a master's degree and be a professor.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I see that for you.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, I've got my, my professorial shoes, my very professorial collar.

[Caleb Hearon]

You'd be a cool music professor.

[Jensen McRae]

Thank you.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'd be like, let's go. I'm going.

[Jensen McRae]

Would you teach comedy?

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, I do every day.

[Jensen McRae]

Every day is a masterclass. Kids, take out your pencil and take notes. Caleb's class in session.

[Caleb Hearon]

Everyone listening. There will be a test. Would I teach comedy? Yeah, I love teaching. I love teaching in general. I'd rather teach something that matters. I'd rather teach like comm theory or anything else.

[Jensen McRae]

You don't think having a laugh in this day and age that having a laugh is medicine?

[Caleb Hearon]

I think if you need, if you need to be taught how to make people laugh, you should go do something else is what I think.

[Jensen McRae]

But there's such a difference. Like, I'm not to brag, I'm being funny now. But like I couldn't get up on stage and do stand up.

[Caleb Hearon]

I bet you could.

[Jensen McRae]

I've, I'm. I tried to sit. I have one joke. I have one stand up joke. I'll give it to you. I had this one joke that I. So I run sometimes. Not that consistent of a runner, but I had this idea of like doing a bit where like I'm running in the park and like, it would be horrible to discover a dead body. But like, if on the news they referred to me as a jogger, I'd be like, oh my God, like people know me as a jogger.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's a good. I like that premise a lot.

[Jensen McRae]

That's my only. And I don't. That's all I got.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's a good premise.

[Jensen McRae]

And I was like, I think if, I don't think I could get Five minutes from there.

[Caleb Hearon]

But you don't necessarily need five minutes out of it. You'd see what comes of it. I think I'm somebody who. There's a lot of stand ups who are like, no more standups. We don't need people to stand up. I'm the opposite. I'm like, everyone can do stand up. You really think, go nuts. Not everyone's gonna be good at it, right? But I think with enough work you could ever. I think people imagine stand up and they go, oh my God, I just die. If I even had to do it, I'm like, no, you would do really badly.

[Jensen McRae]

Right?

[Caleb Hearon]

And then you would get over that and then you would have done something really good for your soul, which is learned how to fail in front of people and not feel like your life was over.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, that's true. Because with music, like, it's very rare that you're getting on stage. Like, obviously you practice for stand up, but when the first time you get up to do stand up, you don't know how it's going to be received. With music it's very easy. Like you get up there, people are going to clap politely. Like there's no way to people. I mean, I guess you can get a polite laugh, but you can't. Like it's, it's. It's a much more involuntary reaction. And if your stand up is bad, people are not going to really let you get away with it. Especially not in la, not in Hollywood.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Try again, honey. What, what's the next. What's the album like? Tell me about album.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean it's similar, somewhat similar sonically to the first one. Like it's very, a lot of organic instruments. It's all like a singer, songwriter vibes. But like thematically just like I grew up a lot. Like my first album is very. I say it's like my coming of age kind of and it's like about me growing into myself and discovering my identity like in college. And then this album is much more about relationships because I had my first two relationships like back to back in my mid-20s and they were both like incredibly transformative and insane and I had, I just had no choice but to document them. Which like kind of crazy to be like, it's about my breakup but. Cause like every album is. But it's like for me it's like in a different and interesting way.

[Caleb Hearon]

I wrote a breakup album in a way that other people failed to.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm kind of touching on some stuff that everyone else is afraid to say. I mean, ultimately I've been thinking about, like, what are funny ways that I can pitch this album. And I think one of the biggest things is that it's ultimately about, like, how you should only date men from New England at your own peril.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I've heard that.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, I wrote Massachusetts for a reason.

[Caleb Hearon]

I've heard this. Especially straight men from New England.

[Jensen McRae]

I saw a tweet once. It was like, God puts his most evil white voices, evil white boys, in places like Massachusetts and New Hampshire. And I was like, that's crazy. That's. That's really true. I've never met anyone from New Hampshire. I'm sure they're lovely people, but I.

[Caleb Hearon]

Wouldn'T be so sure.

[Jensen McRae]

I can't. I'm not going to make any generalizations. I won't. I'm not going to speak out of class.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, but don't speak out of turn. I'm begging.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, yeah. It's about, like. It's about me processing those relationships and ultimately realizing, like, what. Not like, what doesn't kill me made me stronger, per se, but like, what didn't kill me, like, haha, couldn't get me this time.

[Caleb Hearon]

What didn't kill me this time might next maybe.

[Jensen McRae]

And. Yeah. And if I have to go through this again, who knows?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's to say?

[Jensen McRae]

Like, really not up to me, but. But yeah, I really. It was very cathartic to write, obviously, and like, I'm really proud of these songs. Like, one of. One of the first things Brad said to me, like, the first time we spoke was he had listened to the first album and then he was listening to the demos and he was like, I can just tell how much you've grown as a writer. And to me that's like, the biggest compliment is not that I've made the best song ever, but that, like, you can track the growth as I'm progressing through my musical journey. Like, I don't like people blowing smoke.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

I don't want people telling me that I'm the greatest. I want people to tell me, like, oh, you've. You're growing a lot. You're improving a lot. And like, I can tell every year that you're. You're further along than you were the year before.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I don't know if I've ever grown from something that, That I struggled through.

[Jensen McRae]

No. No. Resilience.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't think I've. I get through it, but I don't think I've ever left a struggle and been like, ooh. That one. And good, good, good, good, good. You know, every struggle I have, I go, that should never have happened to me.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, that. And ultimately, that's how I feel.

[Caleb Hearon]

I do think it would be fun. I do think it would be fun to do, like, a big diva turn.

[Jensen McRae]

You should.

[Caleb Hearon]

To, like, really get nasty with it.

[Jensen McRae]

Would you do, like, physical manifestation of diva, like, fur coat kind of a thing?

[Caleb Hearon]

Fur coat that I, like, drop on. I chance when I walk in, throw the glass across the room, I go, virginia, my latte.

[Jensen McRae]

You know, I think you switched to transition lenses.

[Caleb Hearon]

Of course. Wouldn't that be fun?

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. Huge.

[Caleb Hearon]

I. What? Okay, on a scale of. On a scale of saint to nightmare, how much of a diva are you?

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, that's really hard to say. I don't. I don't know if I'm allowed to say, like, because I can. It's sort of like calling for a genius. You know what I mean? Like, are you allowed to make that? Because the thing. Because I have, like. I have, like, a bunch of health problems, lol. And, like, I. I, like, have, like, a very restrictive diet. So, like, when my writer, when I tour is like, I need. Need fresh, like, produce.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

So, like, in a way, like, that makes me a little bit of a diva. I'm like, these blueberries have a little mold on them. Unacceptable.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Type of thing.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think moldy blueberries is probably something.

[Jensen McRae]

You'Re allowed to veto, but it's like. Or if it's like, if someone brings me something and there's not a refrigerator, like, a mini fridge in my green room, and, like, the stuff's been sitting out, I'm like, I don't want it now. If it's not. If it's at room temp, I'm not interested.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

So it's like, in that way, like, I guess I'm a little bit of a diva, but, like, ultimately, like, I don't want. I don't. I hate inconveniencing people.

[Caleb Hearon]

What's on your right?

[Jensen McRae]

So it's like. It's like blueberries and arugula and cucumbers.

[Caleb Hearon]

Let's go.

[Jensen McRae]

And, like, I like to have. I like. I like tea. Like, I like to have some mint tea. And ultimately now, like, because I travel with a band, like, I let them have input. Like, I think my little brother put pretzels on there. So, like, there was always pretzels in there. But I think we're all kind of afraid to ask for too much stuff. Like, we know we can.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

But it's like the idea of like saying to like, these people at these, these hard working people at these venues, like, hey, can you like, go to whatever the equivalent of whole foods is in this town and like, like, find me my snacks? Like, I'm like, you have better things to do than this surely.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's interesting.

[Jensen McRae]

What's on your writer?

[Caleb Hearon]

My writer is an amalgamation of all stuff we like. It's like Chance always wants a bottle of whiskey.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Love I rotisserie chicken, which I learned from Stavia. It's a great call on. This is something you can just eat real quick before and it's not going to upset your stomach. Like chomps, beef jerkies, Fiji waters, cold Fiji waters, Dr. Pepper, Diet Coke. What else is on there? Hint of lime chips.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, that's powerful.

[Caleb Hearon]

And salsa. What? Light beer.

[Jensen McRae]

One of my college roommates always had a family sized bag of hint of lime Tostitos in her desk drawer.

[Caleb Hearon]

Dude, hint of lime is the fucking truth.

[Jensen McRae]

They're great.

[Caleb Hearon]

I messaged the people at Tostitos and I said, what you're doing with hint of lime is incredible. You should do it on the scoops.

[Jensen McRae]

Don't they have hint of lime scoops?

[Caleb Hearon]

No, not to my knowledge.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, I guess I never thought about it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Do they? Oh, here's my writer. Here's my writer. Okay. Two rotisserie chickens, cherry cook zero. Dr. Pepper, Jack Daniels bourbon whiskey, Budweiser, Coors light, Boom chickapop, kettle corn, Evian water, Pre roll joints where legal. Original Pringles. I didn't do that. Fresh fruit platter. Emphasis on pineapples. Pineapple strawberries, blackberries, regular or jalapeno chomps. Beef sticks, Dove milk and dark chocolate, sugar free Red bull sparkling water. Additional requests to potentially follow depending on guests and location.

[Jensen McRae]

Beautiful.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, and I will be adding to that, actually. Chance, will you put hint of lime Tostitos and jar of salsa. Chunky, chunky medium salsa.

[Jensen McRae]

No particular brand.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, I don't see. I. That's how I try to help is I try not to go too specific.

[Jensen McRae]

Right.

[Caleb Hearon]

That kind of thing.

[Jensen McRae]

Right, right, right.

[Caleb Hearon]

Because of course I want to say it needs to be Amy's.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Needs to be Amy's Organic chunky medium salsa.

[Jensen McRae]

But like, who's medium, not mild?

[Caleb Hearon]

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[Jensen McRae]

You're just a down to earth, salt of the earth Midwest.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm a regular guy from Missouri who likes his hint of lime chips.

[Jensen McRae]

And that's beautiful.

[Caleb Hearon]

And that's where it does have.

[Jensen McRae]

Do you like the lime lays or is that not. Is that a no go?

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't believe that I've had them for.

[Jensen McRae]

Wow. I mean, I feel like that's something that could open your. If you're talking about hint of lemon. Although they're called. See, here's the thing. They're called limon.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Pretty confident that that means lemon in Spanish.

[Caleb Hearon]

It means lime.

[Jensen McRae]

I thought lima meant lime.

[Caleb Hearon]

Nice. I was just saying something.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm in Spanish lessons. I'm taking Spanish.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm in Spanish lessons.

[Jensen McRae]

Shut up.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, my God.

[Caleb Hearon]

I met a guy at a party in Mexico City, Ernesto. And he goes, would you want to take Spanish classes with me on Zoom? And I go, yeah, how about every week? Week?

[Jensen McRae]

I'm doing Spanish class every week. But I went on, like, a website and like, found. I like, found a tutor from Peru. Her name's Luciana. Shout out Luciana. I don't know if she's watching you like her. I love. I picked her because her photo looked like. I was like, oh, I look. It looks like we'd be friends. I filtered like tutors. I mean, you can't actually filter for it. But when I was looking, I was like, I want a young lady who looks like we'd be. Have a key. Like, that's what I want.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And now I'm worried she's younger than me because when I first hired her, I assumed we were the same age. And then in our last lesson, we were talking about podcasts, and she talked about listening to a podcast when she was like 12. And I was like, wait, wait, what do you mean, like. Like a podcast that was out when I was in college. I was like, wait a minute. Are you like 23 years old? Like, that's disgusting.

[Caleb Hearon]

Obsessed.

[Jensen McRae]

So I don't know. I don't. That stresses me out if she's much younger than me, because I really thought we were the same age.

[Caleb Hearon]

That is stressful.

[Jensen McRae]

But I don't. I ultimately don't know. And I'm. I feel like it's rude to ask.

[Caleb Hearon]

We should practice Spanish together sometime.

[Jensen McRae]

We absolutely should.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm really bad.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm honestly pretty good I believe that.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I honestly, I just don't. I don't. I'm. I'm working on it. Ernesto is being very patient with me.

[Jensen McRae]

Had you. Did you have any knowledge of Spanish before? Ernesto Poco. Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, a little. Just a tiny bit. But I. Because here's the issue. I. I really hate that the American education system, where at least where I grew up, treats the foreign language like it's a requirement. But it's like a joke.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Like, they're like, oh, pick a Spanish name and we'll have chips and salsa one day.

[Jensen McRae]

What was your Spanish name?

[Caleb Hearon]

Gustavo.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Gustavo. Because I thought it was cute.

[Jensen McRae]

Mine was Juanita when I was young. And then when I got to middle school, I didn't like that name, so I changed it to Julia, which ultimately, like, I. Then I started talking to people who are like, actually like fluent Spanish. And they're like, we'll just call you your actual name. You don't need a Spanish name.

[Caleb Hearon]

They're like, hey, yeah, like, that's the.

[Jensen McRae]

Thing that your teacher made up.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, my, My seventh grade Spanish teacher was German.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's the thing is they don't take it seriously.

[Jensen McRae]

So that's an unserious thing to do.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's an unserious thing to do. Or like, God love her. But Ms. Polly was not locked in, you know, like, I'm sorry. I don't even know how much she'd traveled in Mexico. Like, I just feel, I feel that, yeah, it was a big joke and I hate that because when my mind was more elastic, I could have learned this. And I think it's humiliating to only know one language.

[Jensen McRae]

It is. Well, here's. You know what's interesting about it is true obviously that when you're young, it. There's like, it is easier to learn a language. However, when you think about it, like you look at a seven year old and like, oh yeah, the seven year old is bilingual. They're not that good at either language. You know what I mean?

[Caleb Hearon]

Eat them up. Yeah, get them. Hit them again, Jensen, hit them again.

[Jensen McRae]

Like, Like I think about myself, like. Cause I, I got really good at Spanish in high school because I took AP Spanish lit. I got as far as I was like reading Don Quixote and writing essays about it. I was pretty good when I was 16 and then I just stopped speaking it for like a decade and now I'm picking it back up. But like me speaking it now, I would say that I probably about as good as speaking Spanish like a five Or a six year old.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

But I'm like. Because I'm an adult, like, that's like, it's like, oh, yeah, you're not that good at learning languages. But it's like, ultimately, like, if you give me 10 years, I'll be able to speak like a 15 year old speaking Spanish. And it's like, that's. But it takes a 15 year old 15 years to get. You know what I'm saying?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

It's like some elasticity in the brain there, but also, we're just not giving ourselves enough credit.

[Caleb Hearon]

Nice.

[Jensen McRae]

And so I think that it's ultimately, like, we need to just go a little bit easier on ourselves and be gentle in this crazy big blue marble.

[Caleb Hearon]

That was a way cooler perspective than mine.

[Jensen McRae]

No, no, no, no.

[Caleb Hearon]

My perspective sucked and yours rocked.

[Jensen McRae]

But I also agree that mostly the. The way that we teach language in the US is like, not. It's not good at all. And like, we just need to do so much more immersion. And I just, I just think would be so cool. Whenever I hear people, like, switch back and forth between languages, I'm like, that's so hot. Like, I just want to do that.

[Caleb Hearon]

So hot. And we just don't view it as necessary here. Like, in Europe, they. To speak English. Not everywhere, but a lot of places, they view it as necessary. It's like, if you want to work a customer service job in Paris, you're probably going to encounter some dumbass from the United States who can only speak English. But we don't think that. We encounter someone who only speaks Spanish in our country or someone who only speaks whatever language, and we go, oh, well, they should have known English. It's like, why? Why can't you know something else?

[Jensen McRae]

I will say one double standard that I think is interesting is that, like, as an American, if, like, I feel like you're way more made fun of for having an American accent, speaking a foreign language than you are for speaking English with an accent in the US Really. And maybe I'm aside from bigots.

[Caleb Hearon]

Like, obviously we're gonna take bigots out.

[Jensen McRae]

But I'm saying, like, if you're an American and you go to, like, if I went to Spain, I have a good Spanish accent, so not to wreck, but like, if I think if you, like, even if you're really good at speaking Spanish as an American, if you, like, can't roll your R's or you pronounce things as an American, like, I feel like they're gonna make fun of you.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Whereas I feel like if you're like, I know plenty of people who have lived in the US for, like, 20, 30 years, and English wasn't their first language, and they still speak with the thickest, like, French accent ever, and no one's like, oh, they don't really know English because they speak it with a French accent.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

But I feel like the reverse is totally true.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I think that's totally true, and I think it's fair. I think it's good for us. I think it's nice.

[Jensen McRae]

It's good for us to be shamed.

[Caleb Hearon]

People get so. Americans get so bent out of shape about Paris that a lot of Americans hate Paris because they go, oh, the French are so mean to us. I go, good.

[Jensen McRae]

We do need a place where that happens.

[Caleb Hearon]

Good. I like when I say, la decion, s'il vous plait, and they go, shut up. I like that. I think that's healthy. They should be mean to me. It's good for me because no one's meant mean to me.

[Jensen McRae]

No one's mean to you.

[Caleb Hearon]

Not until Paris.

[Jensen McRae]

That's another good. That's a great chapter of the memoir, too. Not until Paris.

[Caleb Hearon]

Not until Paris. They treat me like dog over there. I'm fat and tall and loud and American. They hate me.

[Jensen McRae]

Do you feel like you could pass for any other nationality other than American?

[Caleb Hearon]

No, ma'am. Hey. No, ma'am.

[Jensen McRae]

I asked.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm locked in on America.

[Jensen McRae]

I asked my English friend. I was like, do you think I could convincingly be anything other than American? He was like, no. And I was like, what about, like, Canadian? That's, like, the same. He's like, you're so loud.

[Caleb Hearon]

I was like, that's.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, I know, but, like, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

No, it's American for me through and through. And I love that about me. I randomly love America.

[Jensen McRae]

That's so random.

[Caleb Hearon]

So random.

[Jensen McRae]

You're so random.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm like, for sure wish it was doing some different stuff, but I'm like, it's so beautiful.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

There's so many different pretty parts, physically.

[Jensen McRae]

I was thinking about that the other day, like, how much I like. There are so many Americans that I love, even though I, like, don't like the institution of America. And that's how I treat about. Like, that's how I feel about basically everything. Like, any group, I, like, love the people in the group. And then, like, the institution, I'm like, let's get rid of it. Yeah, but, like, I love the. I love the. The constituents. Like, I think, like, especially, like. I mean, We. We both tour, like, getting to see all these parts of the country, all the people. Like, there's amazing, cool, smart people literally everywhere in America.

[Caleb Hearon]

I love the voters.

[Jensen McRae]

I love them. I love.

[Caleb Hearon]

I love the voters of this great country.

[Jensen McRae]

Honestly. I mean, I feel like you would understand where I'm going with this. I would love to run for mayor of Los Angeles.

[Caleb Hearon]

Really?

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. I think about it a lot.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think about running for mayor of Kansas City sometimes. Just because you would win. I think it'd be a key.

[Jensen McRae]

You would. It would be. And you'd win.

[Caleb Hearon]

I would do something crazy with it. I'd get silly.

[Jensen McRae]

Like a fun holiday. Or like, oh, worse.

[Caleb Hearon]

I would. I would do. I would do things that. They'd be like, I didn't even know you could do that. I'd be like, I would do free transgender surgeries. I do. I'd go nuts. I'd make Kansas.

[Jensen McRae]

You do all the stuff in the Republican attack ads. For real?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I would.

[Jensen McRae]

Only transgender people allowed to play college sports.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, absolutely. Everyone, guess what? If you want to swim, you better be trans. If you're cis, get out of the fucking pool.

[Jensen McRae]

And frankly. And white, like, just for. In the same way that I think, like, we should just, like, white people shouldn't be allowed to vote for a few hundred years just to, like, kind of make it even.

[Caleb Hearon]

Jensen, I've been saying this.

[Jensen McRae]

I think cisgender people should stop playing sports for a while just to make it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Even if I were ruler of the world, first thing is, white people don't vote for 500 years just to make it.

[Jensen McRae]

Just to fix it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Then we. Then we'll see what happens. Then we'll go back to. Everyone gets a chance.

[Caleb Hearon]

We're gonna go back. We're gonna go back. But for 500 years, white people get no votes. I think that'd be sick. And people go, oh, you have white guilt. No, I don't. I think it's just logical.

[Jensen McRae]

My dad's thing is he's fine with white people voting and stuff. His reparations is he thinks black people shouldn't have to pay taxes. That's his thing.

[Caleb Hearon]

I think that's sick.

[Jensen McRae]

I think he's right. I mean, he has a lot of wacky ideas.

[Caleb Hearon]

I take it a step further. I say no one pays taxes. Get it out of here.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

And black people. What could we do for black people?

[Jensen McRae]

Go on record about it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I'm thinking about black people right now. Not give black people whatever they want.

[Jensen McRae]

Whatever you want. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Black people get in the comments.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, whatever you want.

[Caleb Hearon]

Whatever you guys want. Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. I'd have to. I honestly, if I was like, if the government was like, what do you want as reparations? I'd have to really give that some thought. I think I would. You know what? I would want a beautiful Spanish style home in Los Feliz.

[Caleb Hearon]

Okay.

[Jensen McRae]

That's what I want.

[Caleb Hearon]

I could do that for you. If I was in charge. I would do that. That would be beautiful. That's what I'll do if I get made president. I'll go individually to black people and.

[Jensen McRae]

Everyone gets a wish granted.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. And say what? This is your thing? And you say, beautiful Spanish dot home, Los Feliz. I go, consider it done. And then my men go and seize one from a white. My henchmen go and seize a white family.

[Jensen McRae]

Your army of baristas?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yes.

[Jensen McRae]

These them?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yes. I send. I send 25 they. Thems down there to evict a white family, and you move in same day.

[Jensen McRae]

Beautiful. Same day. While it's efficient.

[Caleb Hearon]

Same day. Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, these are non binary people.

[Jensen McRae]

They're very. They're on the.

[Caleb Hearon]

They can lift when they're on their meds. Gets done on time.

[Jensen McRae]

I was. This is sort of related. I came up with like, you know, like the Genie 3 wish paradigm. I want to know with people, like, if you had three wishes, one of which. Which is, like, really stupid.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And one of which would help you specifically. And one that would help humanity because everyone's like, oh, I wish for, like, the end of climate change and world hunger. It's like, okay, that's cute. But that's only one wish. You get one of those. One that helps you personally and then one that's real dumb.

[Caleb Hearon]

Okay. One that helps me personally. I'm living forever.

[Jensen McRae]

You want to be immortal.

[Caleb Hearon]

Immortal, I love it.

[Jensen McRae]

But I presume, okay, so presumably everyone you love is also immortal, or. No, you want to see them all? No, they can go, you want a new. You want to get a new crop of family?

[Caleb Hearon]

Like, I want to do it new style. Yeah. I want to do immortal. And then I'll do it new style when the one crop dies out. Like, if I'm immortal and all of you guys die, it's like, that was. That was that era. And then the next time I go, I'm gonna start a new era.

[Jensen McRae]

You get a fresh crop of. Of podcast.

[Caleb Hearon]

I start a new era of all things. Yeah. So I'm gonna be immortal. That's my selfish one. My silly one. It rains candy. It's supposed to be silly.

[Jensen McRae]

No, but that's perfect. Yeah. Any specific candy or all the candy?

[Caleb Hearon]

Any kind that I like on the day.

[Jensen McRae]

Just you just whatever you feel kind of that some days I would wake.

[Caleb Hearon]

Up and of course it would be Twizzlers. But then other days, some days that's foul. Some days it would be Butterfingers, and some days it would be, what's another candy I like?

[Jensen McRae]

I'm floored by those being the first two because I find Twizzlers disgusting. And Butterfingers are delicious, but they are the crumbliest.

[Caleb Hearon]

What do you want it to rain?

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, if I had my druthers. Almond Joy.

[Caleb Hearon]

We could do that one day.

[Jensen McRae]

I love Almond Joys. That's an adult's candy.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, well, we could do that, Dave. We could do that. Day three. That'd be nice. I could do that. Or any other candy you want to.

[Jensen McRae]

Because other people's. Over Red Vines.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Wow.

[Caleb Hearon]

Red Vines are disgusting.

[Jensen McRae]

I just don't. I don't. Twizzlers are so slippery.

[Caleb Hearon]

No, the little Twizzler bites.

[Jensen McRae]

I guess I haven't had to go.

[Caleb Hearon]

Eye to eye on this. Okay. So I did my. One for me, one for silly. One for the world.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. And it doesn't have to be like that. You don't have to fix climate change.

[Caleb Hearon]

Teleportation.

[Jensen McRae]

Teleportation. Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

I would do teleportation.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay. That would actually kind of fix climate change.

[Caleb Hearon]

No more how. Think about how much. Think about how much anxiety and pain and suffering in this world comes from not being able to be where you.

[Jensen McRae]

Need to be and from being in transit. Like. Like being in traffic and all that.

[Caleb Hearon]

But that's beautiful as well.

[Jensen McRae]

You. I mean, I must. You. You project that you love, like a road trip.

[Caleb Hearon]

I do love a road trip.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

But then a road trip in teleportation land, a road trip would just be like. You know how some people own records?

[Jensen McRae]

Record. Right.

[Caleb Hearon]

You know, and then a lot of people don't because they're like, that's over. Road trip would just be like, actually, I'm driving to la.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm having a fun drive. It's just for the experience. And there's no traffic because there's only like 10 people driving that day. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

People be like, why don't you just teleport?

[Jensen McRae]

And you go, you want to see the sights?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I'll be driving. You know, you get to be like, kind of. You get to be holier than thou about it.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Because that's the one thing I love.

[Jensen McRae]

To be holier than thou.

[Caleb Hearon]

I love to be holier than thou.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, absolutely I do.

[Caleb Hearon]

I love anytime I get to be and I'll do it around something I've only been doing for like an hour.

[Jensen McRae]

I honestly also love to be holier than thou. I love to like having just read an article to tell us people. Like, actually that's not true. It's a common misconception.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Oh, I love telling someone a common misconception.

[Jensen McRae]

And especially when I read something and I actually did read it and I didn't see it in a TikTok when I actually did read that New York article about it. I love that.

[Caleb Hearon]

Do you know what people. Do you know what people love to tell you when you drink cold, ice cold water? They love to go, it's actually better for you if the water's not so cold when you drink it.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, as a singer, I'm getting. They're telling me that all the time because you're supposed to drink the room temp. But sometimes I some. When you wake up at 2 in the morning. Sorry. Really thirsty. Sorry. Needs to be ice cold.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

I need to wake. I need to lap it up like a dog.

[Caleb Hearon]

This is. Yes. This is the best. I'm gonna tell you right now, the best drink of water you can have. You're staying in a hotel. You wake up at 2, 3 in the morning, you're keeping your eyes half closed because you don't want to lose the sleep.

[Jensen McRae]

Right, Right, Right.

[Caleb Hearon]

You stumble over to the refrigerator, you get one of the like $17 aquapona. Still. You're like. But you're so thirsty. You're like, it could be a million dollars and I wouldn't care. You crack off the top, you take the biggest drink you can even imagine, and then you put it back down and go back to sleep.

[Jensen McRae]

I would love to know, like unexpected, like underrated. Best hotel experience you've had on tour. Like, best hotel you've stayed in. Like in a random city.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. This is a really good question. Best hotel experience I've had. That I didn't expect though, is the. Is the part of it.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, because like, obviously if you're staying in like a fancy city in a fancy hotel, that's not that. Maybe not that shock. But like, for example, like, I stayed in St. Louis.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

When I was opening for Muna, I think I stayed at like an AC Marriott.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

I felt like I was in a actual palace. The room was enormous. The softest sheets ever. I was Like a high rise. Everything was like stainless steel. I was like, God, am I James Bond?

[Caleb Hearon]

Like, Midwestern hotels are crazy.

[Jensen McRae]

They're enormous.

[Caleb Hearon]

I just stayed in a hotel room in Lincoln, Nebraska. I actually didn't like the hotel that much, but the room itself was a. I paid. I paid $270 for the night. Right kitchen.

[Jensen McRae]

Right.

[Caleb Hearon]

Living room with couch and TV. 1500 square foot patio. Bedroom with its own separate doors. Bathroom that was its own separate, like, wing of the room that was as big as the kitchen. Then there was. There was a hallway to the bedroom. In the room that had fucking, like, standing video games.

[Jensen McRae]

Wow.

[Caleb Hearon]

Like Atari and shit. Wow. I was like, this is insane.

[Jensen McRae]

It's crazy.

[Caleb Hearon]

I couldn't believe it.

[Jensen McRae]

No. Every time I go to Minneapolis, which is. I played there a lot randomly, and they love me there. I love them. Love Minneapolis. Every hotel room I've stayed in there has been like the size of a, like, a large one bedroom apartment. And it's for like a couple hundred dollars. And I'm like, how is this possible? Meanwhile, New York, beautiful city, amazing. The last hotel that I stayed in there. Well, no, the last time I stayed there, the room was a little bit bigger. But once I stayed in there and I could not fit my suitcase in there.

[Caleb Hearon]

You got to say, the Chelsea, I.

[Jensen McRae]

I don't think I've stayed there.

[Caleb Hearon]

Chelsea's really nice.

[Jensen McRae]

Is. It's like, famous, right?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yep.

[Jensen McRae]

That's like the Leonard Cohen. I remember. The Chelsea Hotel.

[Caleb Hearon]

You better sing.

[Jensen McRae]

That's me doing my, like. Because whenever I like, like, if I, if I'm singing, like, kind of casually, I have to, like, pretend to be bad, you know?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

That's like, the rules. It's why I don't do karaoke.

[Caleb Hearon]

That was beautiful what you just did.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, thanks.

[Caleb Hearon]

And you were barely trying, which makes me sick.

[Jensen McRae]

I, I don't do karaoke for that reason. Because I think it's rude.

[Caleb Hearon]

It is up. If I saw you at karaoke, I would protest.

[Jensen McRae]

I think if, like, like I've seen, like, Ariana Grande do karaoke and I think she's doing it with, like, other singers. I think that's okay, I guess.

[Caleb Hearon]

No, at home.

[Jensen McRae]

But I, I. Even if I was with my friends who were, like, also musicians, I'd be like, guys, we don't need to do karaoke. Like, we do this all day. You know what I mean? But, like, people, like, what do you mean? Don't you love karaoke? And. And I'm like, no, no.

[Caleb Hearon]

People like me need it.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, there's like, I think you strike me as like the perfect karaoke person because, like, you're not going to sing badly. Like, you're not going to get up there and like, make people's ears hurt. But you're not like a singer, so it's not like you showing off, you know, it's like pleasant and fun and camp.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I'm going to pick like a. I'm going to do like, man, I feel like a woman. Shania Twain.

[Jensen McRae]

Exactly.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm going to get people involved.

[Jensen McRae]

The one time, one time, a girl that my older brother was dating made me do karaoke. She, like, came to one of my shows and then was like, we're going out and we're doing shots. And I was like, what is happening? And I did a tequila shot. Hated it. And then she was like, you're doing karaoke? And I was like, no, I'm not. And then she's like, what's your karaoke song? I was like, well, if I were to do karaoke song, I'll do a hip hop song. I'm not gonna say the song now. Cause the rapper now we don't. We don't associate with him anymore. But it was a one rep, but it was a rap song that I happened to know all the words to. And then before I know it, the song is coming on. She's like, I signed you up. Surprise. And I had to like, do once again being forced to rap against my will in like a bar in Chicago with like three people in it on a Wednesday night.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's also what she did is literally the villain plotline from My Best friend's Wedding. What she did was so mean.

[Jensen McRae]

That kind of stuff has happened to me a lot in my life. Yeah, I've had a lot of kind of villainous. Like, I remember when I was in high school once, I was like sitting at a table outside after school, and it was like some girls were like, more popular than me. Wasn't hard barred, clear. And I was with them. We were kind of getting along, kind of hitting it off. And then this one girl who really, I think hated me a lot, came up to the table and was like, oh, are we still going to whatever restaurant? And the girls were like, yeah, who's going? And she's like, oh, like Kelly and Sarah and Ashley, whatever. And then look directly at me and goes, and I guess that's it. And then they all just got up and left.

[Caleb Hearon]

That is bone chilling.

[Jensen McRae]

And I was like, that's actually crazy.

[Caleb Hearon]

That is bone chilling. How mean Kids are evil.

[Jensen McRae]

And it's like, I'm ashamed that I remember that 10 years later, but unfortunately, I do.

[Caleb Hearon]

How would you not? That's bone chilling. That's like, sociopathic. It's basically like, if she, like, stabbed an animal in front of you and, like, made you watch, it's like, that's crazy behavior. That's nuts. I don't like that.

[Jensen McRae]

I didn't love it, but that was, like, the kind of. But that. You leave that before. I left that behind. It doesn't really happen to me anymore. But, like, when I was a teenager, like, that kind of stuff was. I look back and I'm like, that was the plot of a silly movie that I would have loved.

[Caleb Hearon]

But I get too comfortable with people, for sure.

[Jensen McRae]

You think?

[Caleb Hearon]

I definitely do. I do. I push it to levels that are like, I'll meet someone first time that I do not know from Adam. And they'll be saying something. I'll be like, well, that's because of your childhood insecurities. And they'll be like, what is that?

[Jensen McRae]

So I. So I would do something like that. I would say something that crazy. I'm like, not physically. I'm not getting comfortable with people for a while. Like, I'm not, like a big physical touch person.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm a hugger. I'm kissing on the cheek.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm, like, very afraid to touch people, I feel. But, like, I will say something out of pocket, probably analyzing them.

[Caleb Hearon]

I would dab up the pope. There's something wrong with me. There's something wrong with me.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay, but, like, these. That example, you're. I'm like, would I dab up the Pope? I don't. I guess I wouldn't. I guess I'd be afraid. I guess I'd be maybe overly deferent. Although he was saying some crazy stuff.

[Caleb Hearon]

The Pope.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

He's so cool.

[Jensen McRae]

He was saying to Greece and one of my best. My best friend in the entire world.

[Caleb Hearon]

Kidding, by the way. Just playing, guys.

[Jensen McRae]

You don't think the Pope is super cool just playing?

[Caleb Hearon]

No, it's just like, we went to college together.

[Jensen McRae]

It's just like. It's like. It's like. You don't want to, like, say, I.

[Caleb Hearon]

Just know him differently.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, yeah. It's like, not like. And, yeah, we're gonna. I mean, we'll cut it, but. Yeah, but, like, the stuff that he was saying that he was getting into, ultimately, like, it was very homophobic. But a lot of my friends did think it was pretty funny.

[Caleb Hearon]

Didn't he say there Was like an era.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. Ultimately. Yeah. That was kind of what he was getting at.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, guess what? That's hilarious. And guess what else? He's right.

[Jensen McRae]

I was just, like, surprised because I think he said it once, and everyone was like, you can't say that. Pope. Whatever the Pope is. And then he was like, sorry. And then said it again.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, look, here's what I hate, is that gay people and leftists, we all get painted as, like, woke. Boring, Woke. Scolds. I'm like, if you say something true and funny, we'll let it slide.

[Jensen McRae]

Absolutely.

[Caleb Hearon]

If you say there's an air in the Pope's house, the Vatican.

[Jensen McRae]

Pope's house.

[Caleb Hearon]

If you say there's an in the.

[Jensen McRae]

Vatican, we'll be like, it's the hype house.

[Caleb Hearon]

We'll be like, period. Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

He's like, corvette. Corvette.

[Jensen McRae]

That's. I didn't see Conclave, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's what it was.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Because they are being over there, I.

[Jensen McRae]

And I can't really weigh in, but I trust you.

[Caleb Hearon]

You know, they're being. You can totally weigh in. I mean, it's like, look at the regalia. Look at.

[Jensen McRae]

There's a lot of regalia.

[Caleb Hearon]

There's a lot of regalia. And then the. You know, they're. Yeah, they're doing other stuff they shouldn't be doing. He's the least of the words with those guys. Sorry.

[Jensen McRae]

But ultimately, like, I do think. I do think I agree with you that if something is funny, I absolutely will let it slide. Like, I've laughed at some pretty. I'm. I can be a bit of a woke scold maybe to some people with. Maybe some people would say that. But I will let something slide if it's actually funny. It's just most of the stuff just not that funny.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's the thing. That's. Most of the people that are like, oh, you can't get away with anything anymore. I'm like, no, you suck. I know plenty of people. People that are getting away with stuff. I've heard some homophobic stuff in Missouri from some farmers out of Casey's gas station.

[Jensen McRae]

They got a laugh.

[Caleb Hearon]

They guess. I was like, brother, when you got me, you got me broken clock twice a day.

[Jensen McRae]

Huh? There's like. I'm trying to. There's. There's definitely been some stuff. There's some comedy about black people that I've definitely gotten. And again, it's like, there's, like, these people that I want to Reference. Like, we don't, we don't associate with those people anymore. But there have been some bits. There was one comedian who did a bit about, like, black people really liking watching Matt magic and, like, black people's reaction to magic and that. I was like, you're right. You're not wrong about that. I've seen, I've seen the Criss angel episodes. Black people love that. They do. We do love magic.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. There's a difference between being hateful and making observations.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Is the real tea. But I will say it's a, it's a you give a mouse a cookie situation where sometimes you let, you let someone slide a little bit. You know, you let a straight person make a homophobic joke once or twice because they nailed it. And then all of a sudden get too comfortable. They're queening out.

[Jensen McRae]

Absolutely.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well.

[Jensen McRae]

And well, don't. Isn't that the ultimate. Isn't that the goal of. Isn't that the end goal of society? We're all queening out.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, but they're queening out in a way that's like. You got too comfy.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. You need to be a queen to queen out.

[Jensen McRae]

You do need to be a queen to queen out.

[Caleb Hearon]

Don't queen out when you're not a queen.

[Jensen McRae]

And, and, and we are giving out the queen cards. We're the, we're the authorities.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, I'm handing out queen cards. All of a sudden it's. I'm, I'm planning a queen out. I'm planning a queen out. No one in here's a queen. What's. Give me back the queen card.

[Jensen McRae]

The hell is open and all the queens are here.

[Caleb Hearon]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. There's a lot of, there's a lot of people playing queen in here. When I was trying to, to actually queen out. I've considered this a queen out.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, I would hope this is our Lincoln sleigh. I, I, I hope so.

[Caleb Hearon]

This is our queen out.

[Jensen McRae]

Lincoln build.

[Caleb Hearon]

Our Lincoln build. We are linking and building.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

You didn't ask me to help out with the record at all.

[Jensen McRae]

What I know how if I could go back in time with a time machine, where would you have kind of seen yourself slotting in backgrounds?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay, love. There were some moments that I was like, the backgrounds were a little low for me, so I feel like you.

[Caleb Hearon]

Probably would have 15ft from stardom.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm trying to do. And you know what? Background vocalists, those are always the ones with the best Vocals, voices.

[Caleb Hearon]

But don't I know it.

[Jensen McRae]

I feel like you would know.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm locked in.

[Jensen McRae]

I feel like, you know, all the background vocalists.

[Caleb Hearon]

I had such a good. I had such a fun moment the other night at a concert. I was at a concert. I saw Hippo Campus in Brooklyn.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, Nathan Stalker, the guitarist. He's the guitar player on my record.

[Caleb Hearon]

Okay, well, let me tell you something. You can pass this along to Nathan. There was a. There was an individual in the back. Tall, black person. I do not know their name. I need to look them up. They. At one point, they were playing a tambourine. I turned to my friend and I said, the individual in the back left, I can tell you right now, they're going to play five other instruments and they're going to be the stars of this show. And about one track later, that person picked up a trumpet and did a solo that I literally. I'm not kidding, I turned around to strangers and said, are you kidding? And the rest of the show, every time they picked up an instrument, I was like, that is what I'm fucking talking about.

[Jensen McRae]

And you know what? You're actually so right on the money with that observation. Because a tambourine is, like, the hardest thing to play.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yes.

[Jensen McRae]

And so a person who's picking up a tambourine and doing it well, that's a superstar.

[Caleb Hearon]

And when I see a multi instrumentalist in a band and I know that they got brought on tour because they can play seven things, it's not because they play seven things. Okay. It's because they play seven things. Incredibly.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I say that person, they're going.

[Jensen McRae]

To get a moment and they're effortless about it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

They're not bragging and they're not weird. And it's just like, literally, they look like they're sometimes. Dare I say sometimes they don't even look like they're exerting any energy. They're just like, oh, yeah. Just kind of effortlessly, perfectly on B with this tambourine.

[Caleb Hearon]

Right now I'm like, what are you. How do you. They'll take something off and put something on I've never seen before.

[Jensen McRae]

It's. It's astonishing. And I kind of. I sometimes wish I was one of those people because I'm not very good at playing either of the instruments that I play.

[Caleb Hearon]

You play piano and guitar?

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. And I'm not that good at either. Either of them.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't play either. So I'm. I salute my. I salute you.

[Jensen McRae]

I appreciate that.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I find you to be really good at guitar.

[Jensen McRae]

But, okay, I can accompany myself. But I. Like, when I see real guitar players, like, really shredding, I'm like, yeah, I have no business doing this. And ultimately, I will get to a point where I probably am not playing guitar that much on stage anymore.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

But I. Right now, it's very much like, I do accompany myself. Like, I'm kind of, like, doing. It's for the culture, it's for the community. It's representation. There's not enough black girls playing acoustic guitar, wearing glasses and crying kind of a thing.

[Caleb Hearon]

I've been saying that there's just not.

[Jensen McRae]

Enough of us, and I'm. I'm getting out there. People are going to keep comparing me to Tracy Chapman. Ultimately, I'm not really anything like her, but that's okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I don't really understand that comparison.

[Jensen McRae]

It's. I appreciate people. It's kind of like, how, like, because there's, like, no black women, there's not enough famous black women doing folk music, everyone's like, who's the one that I've heard of? Got it. Tracy Chapman. In the same way that my Asian friends are always being told they look like Lucy Liu, even though they don't. Because there's just, like, not enough. There's not enough representation on Asian woman.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. Like, this is the. Who's the first one I can think of.

[Caleb Hearon]

I've had an impulse come over me.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay.

[Caleb Hearon]

I want to do a segment with you.

[Jensen McRae]

Okay. Yeah, I'm ready.

[Caleb Hearon]

This is a true or false segment.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, I'm familiar. I'm going to do bad job.

[Caleb Hearon]

I believe you know. I believe you know. It's work. I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if you think they're true or false. And if you get 10 or more correct, Jensen, we're gonna give you 50 US dollars.

[Jensen McRae]

Absolutely.

[Caleb Hearon]

Are you ready?

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Dragonflies can't walk.

[Jensen McRae]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. A group of goats is called a trip.

[Jensen McRae]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. The official state gem of Washington is emerald.

[Jensen McRae]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

False. Petrified wood. There's no such thing as Diet Dr. Pepper.

[Jensen McRae]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

False. There is. USC's motto is Let whoever earns the palm bear it.

[Jensen McRae]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. The chips, the chicken is the closest living relative to the T Rex.

[Jensen McRae]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. From 2010 to 2017, every tweet was archived by the Library of Congress.

[Jensen McRae]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. The ipod touch came out before the iPhone.

[Jensen McRae]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

False. Harvard Westlake School sports team are called the Badgers.

[Jensen McRae]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

False. It's the Woo Rings. Flamingos can only eat when their head is upside down.

[Jensen McRae]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. SpongeBob SquarePants debuted in 2003.

[Jensen McRae]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

False. 1999.

[Jensen McRae]

Exactly.

[Caleb Hearon]

Joni Mitchell was born in Canada.

[Jensen McRae]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. Mars is the only planet in our solar system to rotate clockwise.

[Jensen McRae]

True.

[Caleb Hearon]

False. It's Venus. Both male and female turkeys gobble.

[Jensen McRae]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

False. Only male. The world's biggest pyramids in Mexico.

[Jensen McRae]

False.

[Caleb Hearon]

True. How'd she do?

[Jensen McRae]

I did better than I thought.

[Caleb Hearon]

You did great.

[Jensen McRae]

I did way better than I thought you did.

[Caleb Hearon]

Really?

[Jensen McRae]

I was just really following impulse and instinct and Vibe.

[Caleb Hearon]

You really. You were tapped into Source? Yeah, I felt.

[Jensen McRae]

I was talking to Spirit.

[Caleb Hearon]

You were talking to Spirit. You were. You were in connection and conversation with Source?

[Jensen McRae]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Caleb Hearon]

Jensen McCray. I have a question for you.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

What is so true to you, Caleb?

[Jensen McRae]

I've given this a lot of thought, and the thing that's so true to me is that I don't think we should call it Internet stalking when the information is publicly available.

[Caleb Hearon]

Come on.

[Jensen McRae]

I just don't think if someone has a public profile, if I'm getting that information, like a God honest American, that. That's not stalking.

[Caleb Hearon]

And that's a real lover girl, by the way. That's a real lover girl speaking. People don't love anymore.

[Jensen McRae]

People don't love anymore. People aren't watching anyone's high school debate videos from 2012 anymore.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And that's. That's why we're in this situation.

[Caleb Hearon]

I have found some crazy shit on people that I'm dating.

[Jensen McRae]

I found. Yeah, same.

[Caleb Hearon]

I know, like, I know what your high school prom date did last week for dinner. Like, I am, like, locked in in a way that. And it's not all the time. It's just when you really get in the zone.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And you need to know something about someone.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, I found. It's funny because, like, that's like kind of my litmus test of if I actually care about someone is like, how curious am I? Because, like, I was talking to this guy like a couple months ago and I just. Part of the reason I realized that, like, it wasn't going to work out. I had zero curiosity about him. He posted a lot on the Internet. The Internet. And I didn't look at any of it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And like, there I was dating a guy for a couple months last year. He did not use social media. There were like two interviews of him on a. Like a red carpet of a short film festival from 2018. And I watched them every day.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm completely addicted to you.

[Jensen McRae]

And I'M like, sorry, that's not stalking. It's on a public YouTube channel. Sorry.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, it's not stalking to find something that exists.

[Jensen McRae]

It's just. It's just so, like, I can't help myself. Like, that's where my feelings about oh my God. Beautiful, gorgeous.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, so. So.

[Jensen McRae]

And the people who are down bad for you are finding that photo and they're locking in on it.

[Caleb Hearon]

It's so funny that chances pointing this up because someone sent this to me this morning.

[Jensen McRae]

Like, for. To what?

[Caleb Hearon]

Why a friend sent me. So we'll put this on screen in the episode, I'm sure. But chances pulled up, for whatever reason, a picture of me and a youth group that I. Or a youth organization that was in high school with Bring those glasses. One of those people is dead now. It's not funny. It's just. Oh, no. And I don't know about the other ones. Well, I know they're alive. I don't know if they're up to. But yeah, someone sent it to me this morning and said, oh my God, I was googling you to try and find a piece that was written about you recently, and I found this instead. And it was like, why did.

[Jensen McRae]

I can't imagine why this comes up ahead of a recent. Kind of recent coverage of you.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I don't know what they were looking for.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm doubting that story.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Uh, oh.

[Jensen McRae]

In the same way that like. Like one time I posted something and someone messaged me, was like, I can't believe you would write this about me. And I was like, why do you. Why have you seen this? They're like, oh, someone sent it to me. And I'm like, no, they didn't. You looked this up?

[Caleb Hearon]

I just. I got caught. I got caught one time and I actually can't even talk about the details of it because I know that they listen to the show, actually. But I was in a situationship and I was doing some Internet searches and I. A thing happened that shouldn't have happened. There was a like. Or a touch or a tap or something.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And I got caught in. In some. In some disturbing sleuthing. Like, it's the level where you're like. You're like 2011 deep in something. And I actually didn't scroll all that way. I clicked on it from a link from another thing and got a text message. No, got a text message about.

[Jensen McRae]

Can I just say that that person's behavior, they're actually the problem. Because what you need to do in that situation is take The W. Yeah, we need to. And go. Wow. He liked my post from 2011.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Down bad with me. Love it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

And I'm gonna take that and put that in my back pocket for a rainy day. I'm not gonna address that.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, he was pretty upset.

[Jensen McRae]

That's crazy to me, by the way. It's his. That's. He's in the wrong. I'm sorry, but him calling you out, him texting you about, like, he should have been, like, flattered and taken the W and moved on. I think so, like, if someone. If I found out that some. Whenever someone has done that, something like that to me, I never address it. I'm like, oh, cute. You're. I'm living rent free in your mind. Love it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Sweet.

[Jensen McRae]

I love that. For me, I kind of love that.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Yeah. That was a. That. That brought me a lot of shame.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm. I. I'm. And I'm here to set you free. I'm gonna Brene Brown this and I'm gonna say no shame free me.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm Glennon Doyling. And I'm Brene Browning. And no shame allowed Brown.

[Caleb Hearon]

Where the hell is she?

[Jensen McRae]

I think she was at the. Wait, no, she wasn't at the festival, but she's around for some reason.

[Caleb Hearon]

I thought you were gonna say the Grammys. I think she's at the Grammys. I don't know. That just really cracks me up.

[Jensen McRae]

But yeah, I love to. I love to do some Internet stalking and sleuthing. I hope people are doing it to me. I. I think I give them a lot of content to do. So every time someone new follows me, I'm, like, looking at my Instagram. Get a fresh eyes on what they're seeing.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, yeah. When you have a crush, do you ever watch back your own stories imagining that you're them?

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. Well, not only am I doing that, do you. Not only am I doing that, I'm watching my own stories all the time imagining that I'm any number of people.

[Caleb Hearon]

So, yeah, being. Being like, being like, oh, my God, so and so just followed me watching it and going, going. How would I feel about him from this? Yeah, I do that sometimes.

[Jensen McRae]

I think that they should. One of my biggest complaints to meta, I mean, I've got a lot of issues with meta as a platform, I guess. But my biggest note is that you should be allowed to search your story view viewers.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Oh, my God. I've been saying this because at this.

[Jensen McRae]

At the point that we're at, again, not to brag. But we have enough followers now. Like, if you get 10, 20,000 views on a story, they're not showing you all 20,000 other people. And sometimes, like, you're not seeing the people who you care to know are viewing it. Yeah, there needs to be a search bar so I can check. Hey, did this person see it and it just got lost, or have they not, in fact seen it?

[Caleb Hearon]

And sometimes they'll show you who liked it, but then when you go back and look at it, they'll show you a different crop of people who like it. And I'm like, well, where is he?

[Jensen McRae]

I just want to be able to. I got to a point. Can I say this down Bad thing in my laugh, like, situationship? I would screenshot every time he liked my story or one of my posts.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's crazy.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. And I like that.

[Jensen McRae]

Just to look back on for. On a rainy day. That's really when we stop seeing each other. I did have to delete all those screenshots because I was like, this is really humiliating.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. And I love it.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I like to be crazy over someone. It's nice.

[Jensen McRae]

It's fun. I don't know if I have the capacity for it anymore. I think I may have lost.

[Caleb Hearon]

I really am. I've stopped.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, I may have lost the. The oomph. I mean, I say that and, like, famously, whenever I'm like, yeah, I'm like, kind of overlove. Like, I can't do it. Then I'm like, literally days away from, like, falling madly in love. So, like, who knows? But I really feel in this moment, like I don't know if I have the capacity to be insane about a man anymore.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, men are such an undeserving sight.

[Jensen McRae]

But it's. I love when I. When I am getting insane and I get to write a song, it's like, oh, my God. But that. It's kind of sad because, like, when I write a great song about a guy, I'm like, oh, it's gonna end now. Because that was the. I realized that was the reason he was brought into my life so that I could write this song.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

He was brought to you by source.

[Jensen McRae]

He's brought to me by source so that I could write Massachusetts. Unfortunately.

[Caleb Hearon]

Unfortunately.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

And now I have to never speak with him again.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's my. That's my. My plight.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. But ultimately it's going to keep happening even if I say that it's not.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's beautiful. Have you ever had something end Well.

[Jensen McRae]

I mean, like, it depends on, like, your, like. No, I guess not. Because I'm single. Right. So, like, nothing's ended.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, no, I'm saying, like, do you remain friends with any of your.

[Jensen McRae]

I'm. Yes, one friend. He. And he knows this. My. When I was. When I was in college, I. I was obsessed with an English exchange student. Like, absolutely obsessed with him. And we became friends. We were friends for like a year. He dated other people and then we dated for like a month. And then I was still obsessed with him for like a year after that. And we, like, had a big fight because I was, like, in love with him and he was like, I don't want to do this. And then we, like, patch things up and now we're like, best friends. And he knows, like, all this. All the love songs in my first album were about him. He knows that I sent them to him and I was like, don't you love this? And he was like, oh, my God, so sweet. We were so cute. It's great.

[Caleb Hearon]

He was like, oh, my God, that was so cute of you. I didn't feel that way. No.

[Jensen McRae]

He. Here's the thing. For. For the window of time that we were seeing each other, he was like, definitely, like, locked in. Like, he was having great. But he was like, in America for like a couple of months and then he had to go back to England. So, like, he was not. We were not going to be together, but I was 21 and I was like, we can be in a long distance relationship from LA to London. He was like, what are you talking about?

[Caleb Hearon]

He was like, hey, no, we can't.

[Jensen McRae]

He was like, I'm poor. I can't afford to fly to Los Angeles to see you. I'm like. He's like, I may not. Like, he didn't come to Los Angeles, I think, for another, like, three years.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. He's like, I can never come to the States again. We can't do this.

[Jensen McRae]

So he was like, absolutely not. That's not happening. But yeah, he. Now he's like one of my oldest friends. We talk all the time. Time. And he's a real sweetheart. And so he's like the gold standard that now whenever I date someone, like, maybe it'll turn out like this again and then it never does. Yeah, unfortunately.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Ultimately, like, everyone is like, the guys I did do get very jealous of him when they hear about his existence. So it's probably for the best. I don't have, like, a little crew of, like, former lovers.

[Caleb Hearon]

Are you a jealous person?

[Jensen McRae]

I. Yeah, kind of. Not like excessively. I think I'm the. Maybe everyone thinks this. I think I'm the healthy amount of jealous. Like, yeah, I think like, like I've. I'm not like I would. I love the idea of like a guy that I'm dating having female friends. Like, I think he should. And like, I don't think that like flirting is cheating.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

But like, I also like, if you. I don't think that if there's any activity that you and I could be doing together, I don't think you should be doing it alone with another girl. Probably like, if you like, like I hate camping and like I went camping with a boyfriend once and I hated it. But I'm like, you can go camping with another girl. Obviously not alone. But like, it's okay if you don't invite me to do that because you know I don't like it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, but if I loved camping and you went with just another girl.

[Jensen McRae]

Exactly. I'd be like, why? Yeah, that's mean. Yeah, but I think so. I think I'm the normal amount. But maybe I'm. Maybe. I mean, I know there's people out there who are like so cool and non monogamous and are like, yeah, you can do whatever you want. I don't feel that way.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Jensen McRae]

I'll get sad if you kiss someone and also are kissing me.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, there's pain in that laugh.

[Jensen McRae]

Can I say, to my knowledge, I've never been cheated on. To my knowledge, to my nose, I've never, never been cheated on.

[Caleb Hearon]

So I hope that you haven't.

[Jensen McRae]

I hope so.

[Caleb Hearon]

Cheating is so silly to me.

[Jensen McRae]

It's really crazy.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm just like, you could just actually end the thing you're in if you want.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, that's kind of where I land on it.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I, I don't. I'm not jealous.

[Jensen McRae]

Really.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't think so.

[Jensen McRae]

That's great.

[Caleb Hearon]

I've never been in a serious enough thing, I don't think, to be jealous, to give credit to jealous people. But I don't really feel jealous. When I have dated people if they're flirting with someone else, I'm like, well, if you want to be with them, you could go be with them.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, that's kind of where I'm at is like, if you, if I. There's nothing I can do about it. You know what I mean? Like me, me being jealous is only gonna push you away. Me being jealous of. Me being possessive is just gonna make. If you weren't gonn now you're going to.

[Caleb Hearon]

I also feel that my. What I offer is so specific, and. And I think, great. But I'm like, what I offer is very specific. If you don't want this, you. You should absolutely go to something else. I would love that for you.

[Jensen McRae]

It's a relief when. To find out, like, oh, like, you. Thank you for not dragging this out any longer. Like, ultimately, like, even though I've only been, like, dumped. Dumped once, and it was horrible. Genuinely horrible.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, it would hurt my feelings. I'm not. Not above B. Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

But I look back now, it's like, we weren't. We weren't even together for a full year, and I'm like, oh, thank God he didn't drag it out any longer. Like, he knew that he didn't want to be with me anymore, and he made the decision, like, relatively quickly and was like, all right, it's over. Because if he'd stayed for another six months of just, like, not being in love with me.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Horrible, horrible, horrible. And thank God he didn't.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I'm always counseling friends on this when they're like, yeah, I know that I need to break up with them, but I think I just have to, like, let it get through Christmas. And I'm like, no, no, not another holiday. No.

[Jensen McRae]

And I got dumped right before Christmas. And let me tell you, I did have to give those Christmas presents to my brothers, but at least we didn't have a fake holiday where you were pretending to love me.

[Caleb Hearon]

Sick for your brother.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. They got a really nice. My brother got a really nice, like, aloe sweatsuit.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Really sick to be your brothers in that moment.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. I mean, we. There was a time one of my brothers dumped a girl right before Christmas, and then I got her. He. I think he got her, like, also a sweatsuit that he gave to me.

[Caleb Hearon]

Okay. What's going on?

[Jensen McRae]

That's kind of. Yeah. I mean, there's no good time to dump someone.

[Caleb Hearon]

No.

[Jensen McRae]

Right. So.

[Caleb Hearon]

But don't make more fake memories.

[Jensen McRae]

Don't make more fake memories. Don't.

[Caleb Hearon]

I. That's the number one thing I would say. I always tell friends if they're like, like, yeah. Well, it's just coming up on the. Whatever. Anniversary of their whatever with this that I'm like, no, if you know that it's over, end it.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Do not wait out some special thing where you go back and hang out with their family and they have one more round of pictures with you.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. That's weird and bad.

[Caleb Hearon]

Stop it.

[Jensen McRae]

I will say that the last, my last, like actual boyfriend that I dumped, I dumped it like the beginning of May. And so he got to have hot boy summer. That was kind of actually really generous of me.

[Caleb Hearon]

That was so sweet of you.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. So he was like pretty upset about it, but ultimately he did get to have hot boy summer. And I can't think of a better time to dump someone that's like May.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

So if you guys, if you have to dump someone, you're thinking about it, I would say maybe May is a good time.

[Caleb Hearon]

I'm like, I'm like, if you want to break up with someone in June, wait until the next May.

[Jensen McRae]

May.

[Caleb Hearon]

Wait the full next year.

[Jensen McRae]

Well, I would say May, May. May through July is okay. August is a little tough because we're getting closer to fall and that's cuffing season and that's a little bit sad. Ultimately you are going to have to do it anyway. But if you're talking about like, when's the kindest time to dump someone? I would say May to July.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

Because then they get to go out and be crazy at a rooftop bar.

[Caleb Hearon]

Wow. I love that. Yeah, I absolutely love that.

[Jensen McRae]

And so, and that's. And so on to your early question, like on a scale from like saint to like monster, like I am a saint in that way.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

That I did get. I did give him hot boy summer.

[Caleb Hearon]

You're totally a saying. I've been saying that.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't. Yeah. I've never been truly dumped by someone that I wanted. Like, people have definitely ended things with me where I was like, yeah, I knew that this should end also. I think the first time now I. My heartbreak has been unrequited love.

[Jensen McRae]

Oh, I've had that too.

[Caleb Hearon]

I wanted them and they didn't want me.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's been the bigger majority of my heartbreak. But I think if, if I ever truly want someone and where I'm enjoying the thing that we're in a lot and they break up with me, I don't know what I'll do.

[Jensen McRae]

Caleb. I threw it up. I was at. I.

[Caleb Hearon]

Sorry, that's not funny.

[Jensen McRae]

No, it is funny. Well, here's, here's a couple things that happened and I do, I do want to tell these stories. Cuz they are funny. I. The, like a couple days after the breakup, I went on, I went on a run and I was like, I have to exercise to move my body so that I stop feeling like I'm dying. And while I have a running playlist, like that is like the same like Five songs looped over and over. That's like a good tempo to run at. One of which is sex by the 1975. I was jogging in the park, crying, listening to sex by the 1975. And that as it was happening, this was two days after the breakup as it's happening. I'm like, this is objectively hilarious, but I can't laugh about it now because I am in pieces. Objectively. Very funny. And then a couple days after that, I was out to dinner with some friends. Hadn't been able to keep a solid food down. Like, the entire. Like, I hadn't eaten a full meal in a week. And we're out to dinner with friends, and we're, like, sitting on the beautiful patio of Superba Hollywood, and I'm still not eating anything. And I'm asking them for advice. They're giving me terrible advice. Like, literally, like, I'm talking to this girl who I'm not close friends with. She's really sweet girl, lovely, but give it. Telling me the worst stories ever about, like, how she went through a breakup and then got back together with the guy. And I'm like, that's not what I need to hear right now. And I start feeling, like, ill, and I realize what's about to go down. And I did vomit. Sorry, Trigger warning. Emetophobia. I did vomit all over the hallway outside of the bathroom at Superba Hollywood.

[Caleb Hearon]

That is so fucking funny. Not Superb of Hollywood as well.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. And I can't believe they didn't ban me. But my best friend was there and she retrieved me and, like, shuffled me out to the sidewalk and then went back in to, like, tell the staff.

[Caleb Hearon]

I guess not you standing in the lime green lights of Superbia. Superb. Yeah, Superba while they clean up your puke.

[Jensen McRae]

And a waitress was like, what happened? And my friend was like, she's going through a really bad breakup. And the waitress, like, oh, thank God. I thought it was the food.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. Honestly? Yeah. Like, oh, it's just heartbreak. We can handle that.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah, she's fine. But. So if that is kind of what my response was to getting my heart, like, stomped on. And it's never gonna be that bad again. Fortunately. It's never, ever going to be that bad again. Yeah, but that was. That's. That's as bad as it gets.

[Caleb Hearon]

I mean, delicious shrimp cocktail at Superb. If you're not throwing up in the hallway, don't be scared to get the shrimp cocktail.

[Jensen McRae]

And by the way, this was Che two years ago, guys. It's very clean there.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, yeah, they've.

[Jensen McRae]

They've gotten there. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, my God. Dude. I. I had a friend in college who had the puking phobia. Like, even the mention of it, and I. It was. I hated it.

[Jensen McRae]

I. You hated the phobia I hate.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah, I hated hearing about it.

[Jensen McRae]

I honestly, I feel. I. I don't get it. And like, I have a bunch of. I'm afraid of a bunch of weird stuff. So, like, it's none of my business what people are scared of. Like, I have trypophobia, the thing with the little holes, you know?

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah.

[Jensen McRae]

That one's really bad for me.

[Caleb Hearon]

Really? What does it do when you see the little holes?

[Jensen McRae]

It makes me feel like my skin's crawling and like, it's like. It's like. Makes me itchy and it makes me feel like I'm gonna jump out of my skin.

[Caleb Hearon]

Yeah. I didn't know that was real. So a friend once told me she had that. And so I pulled up a picture of little holes next to each other.

[Jensen McRae]

That's actually that. And that's a slur.

[Caleb Hearon]

That's violence.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

What I did was violence. I didn't know. I thought she was straight up.

[Jensen McRae]

She was kidding.

[Caleb Hearon]

It was the first time I had heard of it. I thought she was kidding. She was like, oh, when little holes are together, I just get sick. I was like, okay. And I was like. And I was putting up a thing to be like. Like this.

[Jensen McRae]

Yeah. And.

[Caleb Hearon]

And oh, my God. Did. I was like. I was like. I was like, hey, that's my bad.

[Jensen McRae]

What I'm gleaning from this conversation is that you actually don't believe any of your friends when they say they have phobias.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, I'm just like, what do you mean? It's. I'm just.

[Jensen McRae]

Do not have any weird phobias. Fears. I don't even know phobias, like, the right term anyway. That's not weird. You know that.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't think it's weird, but I'm like. I do get scared.

[Jensen McRae]

There's like, nothing, like. There's nothing in day to day life that like, other people might find weird, but to you is like a big deal.

[Caleb Hearon]

No, I. One of the big. One of the big sticking points between me and most of my friends is that I'm pretty mentally. Well, I'm like, actually pretty solid on that.

[Jensen McRae]

And ultimately, like, you. Us having beef is less about me not releasing Darling Killer and more about you being mentally well.

[Caleb Hearon]

Our beef is about darling Killer. I want that fucking song put out.

[Jensen McRae]

I need to finish. It's only that verse in chorus. I need to finish it.

[Caleb Hearon]

I ask for so little. Just put it out for me. Put it out for me. Finish it and put it out for me. I love it.

[Jensen McRae]

Ultimately. Ultimately, I feel like I have other songs. Like, I put out a visual EP on YouTube a couple years ago, and I feel like Fever Dream is kind of ultimately that song.

[Caleb Hearon]

I know Fever Dream. I know the visual ep. I love Fever Dream.

[Jensen McRae]

This is for the people. This is for them plugging. You know, they're watching this on YouTube. They can go click over. As soon as you guys go click.

[Caleb Hearon]

On Fever Dream and tell me that you don't still want Darling Killer. And if you go to TikTok and search darling Killer, I know because I do it once a week, it'll come up real easy. Go watch it and tell me you don't want that song. I'm not gonna apologize for being a super fan. I never, ever will.

[Jensen McRae]

No, I appreciate it so much. Like, I am such. I was so nervous going into this today because I'm such a fan of yours, and I was like, what if I'm not funny? And Caleb's like, never again.

[Caleb Hearon]

Oh, it was a great episode, though. It was such a great episode. And we did it, in fact. Well, Jensen, will you tell people where they can find you and when your album's going out?

[Jensen McRae]

My album dropped. It's called I don't know How But They Found Me. It comes out on April 25th, and you can find me at, I think Jensen McCrae basically everywhere. And I hope you come to a show and stream the album. And I think pretty sure this episode is dropping the day my second single, Savannah, comes out. So. Yeah, enjoy. Enjoy Savannah, guys.

[Caleb Hearon]

Named after a person or the city?

[Jensen McRae]

The city.

[Caleb Hearon]

Love the city of Savannah.

[Jensen McRae]

Beautiful, haunted, amazing, Gorgeous. Yeah.

[Caleb Hearon]

Well, thank you so much. This was amazing.

[Jensen McRae]

Thank you for having me.

[Caleb Hearon]

That was a headgum podcast.

[Jensen McRae]

Hello and welcome. Or, hi, my name is Cole.

[Caleb Hearon]

My name is Andrew. We host a podcast called Podcast But Outside, where Cole and I set up a table on the sidewalk and talk to strangers who are walking by, we.

[Jensen McRae]

Have a sign on our table that says, hi. Be a guest on our podcast and.

[Caleb Hearon]

We will pay you $1. The only ethical podcast. We're the only podcast that pays. We have really interesting conversations with really fun folks.

[Jensen McRae]

Like who? Like Marilyn. Okay. And I was somebody else's wife for.

[Caleb Hearon]

A while, but the second one worked out well until he died. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

[Jensen McRae]

It turned out he had a double life. What.

[Caleb Hearon]

What was the second life?

[Jensen McRae]

He was a crack addict.

[Caleb Hearon]

What?

[Jensen McRae]

Wait, how do you hide that? Hold on. How do you hide.

[Caleb Hearon]

I don't.

[Jensen McRae]

He was a nice old Jewish guy.

[Caleb Hearon]

How did he get addicted to crack?

[Jensen McRae]

He started smoking it.

[Caleb Hearon]

I know, but I just. I'm just trying to. I know. That was a good clip.

[Jensen McRae]

Hey. Thank you. And sometimes we even have celebrity friends.

[Caleb Hearon]

Of ours helping us to interview these random people off the street.

[Jensen McRae]

Like who?

[Caleb Hearon]

Like Jon Hamm, Adam Scott, Nick Kroll, and Atsuko Okatsuka.

[Jensen McRae]

So please subscribe to podcast, but outside on YouTube and podcast apps, and then.

[Caleb Hearon]

Have a good time.