Episode Summary: "Lizzy McAlpine is The Pope" | So True with Caleb Hearon

In the June 26, 2025 episode of So True with Caleb Hearon, host Caleb Hearon engages in an insightful and heartfelt conversation with singer-songwriter Lizzy McAlpine. The duo delves into a variety of topics ranging from Caleb's Broadway endeavors to the complexities of songwriting, the impact of social media on an artist's career, and the delicate balance between freedom and routine in their personal and professional lives.

Caleb's Broadway Journey

The episode kicks off with Caleb sharing his exhilarating experience of performing on Broadway. Reflecting on his initial nerves, he expresses how terrifying yet fulfilling stepping into the world of live theater has been for him.

Caleb [02:03]: "It was kind of Terrifying at first... But honestly, I've been learning so much, and it's... one of the greatest experiences of my life so far."

Caleb discusses the process of manifesting his Broadway role through social media, highlighting his excitement over collaborating with Jeremy Jordan, an opportunity he feels he attracted through his active engagement online.

Caleb [01:32]: "I feel like I've kind of mastered the art of manifesting in public... exactly. Yeah."

He also touches upon the duration of his Broadway show, revealing that performances began in March and are set to conclude by the end of June.

Navigating Virality and Authenticity on Social Media

Lizzy McAlpine brings attention to Caleb's viral moments on TikTok, particularly focusing on how unexpected viral success has influenced his career trajectory. Caleb reflects on how some songs, like "Ceilings," gained unanticipated popularity a year after their release, impacting his relationship with his audience and his artistic direction.

Caleb [08:40]: "I had to figure out what the next project is going to be... It just feels like I'm learning so much about myself."

While appreciating the opportunities virality has provided, Caleb also shares the challenges it brings, such as audience expectations and the delicate task of balancing hit songs with personal artistic growth.

The Art of Songwriting: Process and Inspirations

The conversation shifts to the creative processes behind Caleb's and Lizzy's songwriting. Caleb explains his organic approach, often beginning with chords that set the song's tone, allowing lyrics and melodies to flow naturally.

Caleb [33:18]: "I start with the chords because I feel like those dictate the tone of the song. And then the words and the melody come hand in hand."

Both artists acknowledge the seemingly spontaneous nature of creativity, likening it to channeling from an external source. They discuss how persistent thoughts and emotions eventually crystallize into their art.

Touring: Balancing Freedom and Routine

Caleb and Lizzy explore the contrasting demands of touring and the need for personal routine. Caleb recounts his previous strenuous bus tours and the subsequent shift to a more balanced approach with flying between cities and taking breaks between tour segments.

Caleb [27:05]: "I need to be sane... Otherwise, I'm gonna have a horrible time and it's gonna show on stage."

Lizzy relates by sharing her experiences on long comedy tours, emphasizing the importance of finding a balance between maintaining freedom and establishing a manageable routine to sustain mental and physical well-being.

Themes of Freedom and Independence

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the concept of freedom—both in personal life and artistic expression. Caleb speaks candidly about his recent breakup, highlighting his pursuit of independence and the freedom to shape his own life and career.

Caleb [19:48]: "My independence is a top priority for me at this point in my life."

Lizzy expands on this by reflecting on how freedom intertwines with routine, and how both artists strive to preserve their autonomy while managing the structured demands of their careers.

Maintaining Authenticity Amidst Growth

Caleb shares his struggles with evolving as an artist and the frustration when previous works continue to overshadow his current creations. He emphasizes the importance of staying true to his authentic sound, even when it diverges from what initially garnered him attention.

Caleb [09:51]: "I feel like this last album, Older, was really, really an important moment for me in my career."

Lizzy echoes the sentiment, discussing the challenges of meeting audience expectations while pursuing personal artistic growth. They both underscore the necessity of evolving without being confined to past successes.

Personal Reflections and Closing Thoughts

In the latter part of the episode, Caleb and Lizzy engage in a playful true-or-false segment, showcasing their camaraderie and mutual respect. The conversation wraps up with Caleb promoting his Broadway show Floyd Collins and encouraging listeners to follow his journey across various platforms.

Caleb [59:13]: "Come see Floyd Collins before the end of June."

Lizzy extends her gratitude towards Caleb, expressing excitement for his ongoing projects and the new music he has to offer.

Key Takeaways

• Artistic Growth: Both Caleb and Lizzy emphasize the importance of evolving as artists while maintaining authenticity, despite external expectations and prior successes.

• Balancing Freedom and Routine: The conversation highlights the delicate balance between valuing personal freedom and establishing routines necessary for sustained creativity and mental health.

• Impact of Social Media: Caleb discusses the unpredictable nature of virality and its dual role in providing opportunities and presenting challenges in managing audience expectations.

• Personal Experiences Shaping Art: Caleb's personal life events, such as relationships and independence, significantly influence his songwriting and artistic direction.

This episode offers a deep dive into the lives of two creative minds navigating the complexities of artistry, personal growth, and the ever-evolving landscape of social media influence.

Notable Quotes:

• Lizzy McAlpine [00:05]: "Dads are addicted to dying. They'll just do it. They're just, like, dropping dead out of nowhere."

• Caleb [09:04]: "I feel like this last album, Older, was really, really an important moment for me in my career."

• Lizzy McAlpine [14:40]: "True fans... if you put out an EDM album, they'd be there for it."

• Caleb [33:18]: "I start with the chords because I feel like those dictate the tone of the song. And then the words and the melody come hand in hand."

• Lizzy McAlpine [19:48]: "I started thinking a lot about freedom because I was asking people what their perfect day looks like in five years."

Where to Find Caleb McAlpine:

• Streaming Platforms: Spotify, Apple Music
• Social Media: Instagram, TikTok
• Live Performances: Catch him in Floyd Collins on Broadway at the Lincoln Center Theater until the end of June.

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